►
From YouTube: Burlington Electric Commission - 5/10/2023
Description
Agenda: https://www.burlingtonelectric.com/wp-content/uploads/05.10.23-AGE-signed.pdf
https://linktr.ee/townmeetingtv
00:00:00 Agenda
00:00:56 Minutes of the April 12, 2023 Meeting
00:01:34 Public Forum
00:19:27 Commissioners’ Corner
00:19:55 GM Update
00:32:09 Financials: FY23 March
00:38:44 Fiscal Year 2024 Updated Draft Budget
01:14:43 Proposed 2023 Rate Case
01:18:38 IRP Forecast Update #4k
01:22:15 Commissioners' Corner
This video belongs to http://www.cctv.org and published with permission under Creative Commons License CCTV Center for Media & Democracy Programming is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.
A
Good
evening
it's
it's
5
30
on
the
second
Wednesday
of
the
month.
You're
at
this
is
the
May
meeting
of
the
Burlington
Board
of
electric
Commissioners.
We
meet
every
second
Wednesday
of
the
month
here
at
5
30
at
585
Pine
and,
as
always,
the
public
is
welcome
to
join
us
joining
the
conversation.
Your
thoughts
questions
concerns.
They
all
mean
a
lot
to
us,
come
on
down
and
join
the
conversation.
A
All
right,
we'll
start
the
meeting
with
the
agenda
are
there.
Any
changes
to
the
agenda
looks
like
I,
see
one
we're
adding
a
discussion
of
the
general
obligation,
Bond
discussion
and
vote
on
that
prize
and
we're
all
good
with
that.
I.
Don't
think
we
need
to
vote
on.
That
says,
wouldn't
be
that
one
change
and
that'll
be
right
after
the
proposed
rate
case,
so
go
into
minutes
of
the
April
12
2023
meeting.
If
there
are
any
changes
that
are
substantial,
that
are
not
simply
tables
or
something
please.
A
A
C
So
I
bought
a
1600
square
foot
duplex
in
the
oh
sorry,
Jody
wooz
I
live
in
the
old
North
End.
We
bought
our
duplex
in
November
2019
and
we're
fortunate
very
fortunate
to
live
next
to
Scott
and
Tammy,
and
since
we've
lived
in
the
house,
we've
undertaken
a
lot
of
upgrades
in
terms
of
being
able
to
use
electricity
more
intensely
and
over
that
time.
I've
had
lots
of
conversations
with
Scott
and
he
said
why
don't
you
come
and
share
your
experience
and
your
thoughts
so
I'm
delighted
to
be
here.
C
The
house
was
in
good
shape
when
we
bought
it
and
it
was
very
much
natural
gas
focused
domestic
hot
water,
gas
stoves
in
the
upstairs
apartment
where
our
son
lives
and
downstairs
where
we
live.
Baseboard
hot
water
systems,
fueled
by
natural
gas
each
unit
has
its
own
electric
panel
and
each
has
100
amp
Burlington
electric
service
annually.
Our
total
electric
consumption
between
the
for
the
two
units
is
about
12
000
kilowatt
hours.
Is
that
the
right
unit?
That's.
C
So
since
we
purchased
it,
we've
done
a
number
of
upgrades.
We
installed
the
level
two
electric
car
charger
we're
now
on
our
third
Nissan
Leaf
we've
installed
an
electric
stove
in
the
downstairs
apartment.
We
installed
heat
pumps
upstairs
and
downstairs.
We
worked
with
energy
Co-op
of
Vermont
to
weatherize
the
house.
C
We're
committed
to
transitioning
to
Electric
for
all
our
energy
needs,
and
we've
benefited
enormously
from
the
Burlington
electric
incentives,
Vermont
Gas
for
weatherization
incentives
and
various
state
and
government
level
incentives
over
the
past
three
years.
Through
this
process,
we've
learned
a
lot
in
talking
with
people
and
researching
and
experiencing
all
of
these
activities.
C
First,
both
units
in
our
building
are
right
at
the
edge
of
our
100
amp
service.
Right
now
we
would
not
be
able
to
add
an
electric
clothes
dryer,
for
example,
as
there's.
No
room
in
the
panel
and
we've
maxed
out
on
our
service
as
we
understand
it.
The
cost
of
upgrading
the
service
rests
entirely
on
us
and
we
suspect
that
most
of
the
homes
in
the
old
North
End
are
in
the
same
boat
in
terms
of
having
100
amp
service.
C
That
may
not
be
certainly
for
us,
but
that
may
not
be
up
to
the
needs
of
people
in
our
in
our
neighborhood
I.
Think
that
Burlington
Electric's,
admirable
and
necessary
focus
on
helping
people
transition
to
electric
and
away
from
fossil
fuels
needs
to
take
the
situation
into
account
in
the
whole
city,
but
in
particular
in
the
old
north
end,
where
the
houses
are
older
and
smaller
for
Muslims
in
our
neighborhood,
it
is
not
possible
to
generate
sufficient
electricity
from
a
roof.
C
Only
installed
solar
system,
the
houses
are
small
and
the
electric
needs
are
what
they
are.
The
small
square
footage
of
the
roof,
combined
with
the
current
level
of
efficiency
of
the
solar
panels,
prevents
this.
For
example,
roof
insulation
at
our
house
would
only
generate
a
third
of
our
annual
electric
consumption
because
there
are
no
Community
solar
options
for
Burlington
electric
customers.
C
Final
point
I'd
like
to
make
is
that
we're
concerned
that
the
grid
just
doesn't
have
enough
power
to
accommodate
the
increased
demand
for
electricity.
That
Burlington
electric
has
been
very
responsible
in
pushing
at
this
time.
We
know
from
National
experience
that,
when
demand
exceeds
supply
for
electricity,
that
the
least
efficient
power
plants
must
be
spun
up
to
accommodate
it,
these
plants
are
the
worst
of
the
worst
in
terms
of
efficiency
and
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
C
C
I
know
that
the
points
I've
made
are
things
you're
painfully
aware
of
I'm
sure
you
will
talk
about
these
all
the
time,
but
I
did
want
to
emphasize.
We
wanted
to
emphasize
the
roadblocks
that
we
foresee
in
widespread
adoption
of
electricity
for
homey,
Heating
and
Cooling
and
for
transportation
in
the
future.
C
E
C
C
E
E
C
E
C
Yeah-
and
you
know
I,
if
I
could
just
take
another
moment,
I
think
that
potential
is
huge.
I
mean
electric
car
batteries,
for
example,
which
people
are
researching.
Our
Leaf
has
the
ability
to
take
power
and
give
power,
but
our
charger
doesn't
have
that
ability.
Yet
California
has
just
indicated
that
they're
going
to
they're,
saying
by
2035,
have
all
electric
cars
have
the
ability
to
to
do
that.
It's
an
enormous
resource,
mostly
for
evening
out
the
flow
I
mean
the
electricity
is
all
comes
from
some
place
right.
C
The
other
thing
I
wanted
to
to
just
to
mention
that
I
didn't
is
that
we
don't
want
to
be
burning.
Anything
I
mean
this
is
why
we're
going
to
to
solar
I.
Think
burning.
Anything
at
all
is
is
bad
for
all
of
us
and
and
for
the
environment
and
so
I.
You
know
this
is
why
I
am
concerned
about
the
roadblocks
have
been
put
up
in
terms
of
of
solar
and
wind
generation
in
the
state
is,
is
a
real
concern
to
me.
A
C
Yeah
to
we
were
talking
about
going
up
to
200,
the
solar
folks
are
thinking
we
may
have
to
upgrade,
but
they're
not
sure
it
depends
on
if
you
get
a
smart
panel
which
will
respond
to
my
cell
phone,
which
I'm
not
that
interested
in
but
I
think
we're
talking
about
between
two
and
three
thousand
dollars
on
that
order.
Does
that
sound
about
right?
And
we
don't
have
to
where
our
our
services
right
at
the
pole
right
at
the
house?
C
E
One
of
the
parts
of
management
from
our
end
is
to
time
demand,
and
so
there
are
incentives
say
for
charging
EVs
and
so
on
that
encourage
asking
for
power
at
off-peak
times,
so
that
again,
the
all
on
at
one
time
problem
doesn't
happen.
So
their
costs
of
doing
what
you're,
suggesting
and
they're
also
costs
of
managing
the
demand,
and
we
are
looking
into
those
specifically.
A
Right
but
I
think
the
point
being
is
and
I
think
what
you're
struggling
with
is
the
engineers
or
whoever
the
powers
that
be.
Oh.
You
know
you
designed
for
it
to
be
for
that.
For
that
scenario,
and
anything
you
know
less,
you
know
that
it
becomes
potentially
a
safety
issue
and
sort
of
force.
It
almost
forces
you
down
that
road
and
that
that
being
the
part
that
that
I
guess
to
perfect
I
think
what
what
Jody
says
is
is
to
for
us
to
look
at.
F
F
D
F
C
F
So
the
the
move
from
100
amp
to
200
amp-
very
much
as
you
said,
unless
you
go
with
there-
are
some
smart
panel
technologies
that
can
ensure
that
you're
not
using
you
know
all
of
the
things
at
once,
and
that
may
be
a
way
to
avoid
the
upgrade
the
good
news
there.
While
we
don't
have
specific
incentives
for
that,
because
we're
not
able
to
on
our
regulatory
structure
the
incentives
we
offer
have
to
reduce
fossil
fuel
use-
and
this
is
sort
of
adjacent
to
that.
It's
important.
The
state
has
a
program.
F
It's
an
income
qualified
program
using
federal
funds.
That's
going
to
be
available
this
year
to
help
with
exactly
this
issue,
which
is
upgrading
panels
and
service,
and
then
the
federal
inflation
reduction
act
has
both
tax
credits
and
rebates.
The
rebates
income
qualified
the
tax
credit
available
generally
to
support
this
as
well
so
I
think
for
the
first
time
this
year
that
we've
ever
had
we're
going
to
have
some
resources
available
to
help
when
customers
need
to
upgrade.
So
that's
really
important,
totally
agree.
C
F
But
your
point,
I,
think
primarily
about
wind
in
particular-
is
a
really
good
one.
There's
still
a
lot
of
solar
being
developed.
The
state
has
over
400
megawatts
and
the
state
grid
is
about
a
thousand.
So
on
a
sunny
summer
day,
where
all
of
that's
on
you
could
see
a
really
significant
portion
of
the
state's
energy
coming
from
solar,
but
solar
ramps
up
and
down,
and
that
means
New
England
grids,
ramping
up
and
down
different
resources
to
match
that,
which
is
a
challenge.
F
Wind
has
a
different
profile,
is
running
more
in
the
winter,
and
the
evenings
has
a
nice
balancing
effect
and
you
can't
build
wind
in
the
state
of
Vermont
right
now.
So
we
we
would
agree
with
you
that
that's
a
significant
issue,
because
we
purchase
energy
from
Georgia,
Mountain,
wind
in
Vermont
and
from
Sheffield,
and
we
would
be
open
to
looking
if
there
were
new
wind
projects
in
Vermont.
We
would
be
open
to
talking
about
that
for
future
needs.
So
that's
I
think
a
real
issue.
F
It's
a
state
permitting
issue
and
Regulatory
issue
that
we
don't
have
control
over,
but
we've
certainly
advocated
for
making
wind
a
part
of
the
resource
mix
again
in
Vermont.
So
that's
I
couldn't
agree
more
on
that
point
and
then
the
last
point
I
would
say
on
the
solar
front.
First,
thanks
for
doing
that,
I
I
know
I've
seen
those
solar,
canopies,
they're,
beautiful,
so
I'm
sure
you're
going
to
enjoy
that.
F
So
you
know
appreciate
what
you're
doing
there
and
we
know
not.
Everyone
can
access
that,
but
at
least
they
can
know
all
of
our
customers
that
we're
100
renewable
and
that
when
they
do
Electrify
they're
doing
so
in
the
state
that
has
the
cleanest
Grid
in
the
country,
which
is
which
is
good.
Overall
for
Vermont,
but
just
just
a
few
points
to
share,
really
appreciate.
F
G
I
can
add
to
I
know.
This
might
be
helpful
just
to
know
that
there's
lots
of
lots
of
people
working
on
this
issue
be
just
doing
amazing
things
and
the
doe
Pacific
National
Labs
Lawrence
Berkeley
labs
they're,
all
looking
at
panel
capacity
and
looking
at
how
to
either
find
new
ways
that
doesn't
require
panel
upgrades
or
looking
at
what
it
looks
like
in
terms
of
the
the
value
stream
of
how
to
encourage
that
and
Darren
talked
about
the
the
money
available
in
the
state.
G
A
F
A
A
F
Very
good,
thank
you.
I
will
skip
over
the
budget
because
we're
going
to
cover
that
as
an
agenda
item,
I
will
mention
just
briefly
that
we
had
one
of
our
major
I.T
systems.
That's
part
of
this
It
Forward
project
we've
been
talking
about
forever.
Go
live
the
meter
data
management
system,
so
Erica
is
online
Emily's
here
in
the
room,
I
don't
know
here
we
had
a
number
of
folks
who
worked
on
this
I.T
Finance
customer
care,
billing
team,
in
particular
Mike,
Leach,
Jennifer,
Bouchard,
so
a
really
great
accomplishment.
F
F
Legislature
could
adjourn
any
day
hasn't
happened
yet,
but
we
had
some
good
news
s-137,
which
is
the
efficiency
bill
that
we've
been
tracking,
has
passed,
the
house
and
the
Senate
heading
to
the
governor
Gibbs
bed.
The
ability
to
pull
on
our
thermal
energy
process
fuel
funds
to
enhance
our
incentives
further
in
the
areas
that
we're
all
talking
about,
and
it.
This
is
somewhat
unique,
and
it's
only
for
bed
where
the
only
entity
in
the
state
that's
going
to
get
to
do
this.
F
But
we
get
to
design
programs
through
this.
That
would
specifically
Target
customers
who
have
a
significant
energy
burden
in
terms
of
using
a
lot
of
gasoline
for
commuting.
For
example,
we
worked
on
this
provision
with
vperk
among
others,
and
my
understanding
is,
if
we're
able
to
utilize
this
Authority
talking
to
one
of
the
national
groups,
that's
working
on
it.
F
We
might
be
the
first
utility
in
the
country
to
come
up
with
a
program
aimed
at
helping
these
customers
specifically,
so
we're
excited
to
work
on
that
I
know
effect
with
James
about
it,
Chris,
Burns
and
others.
The
res
issue
is
not
yet
resolved.
There's
both
a
study
and
a
work
group
lingering
in
the
house
and
the
Senate
we're
not
sure
which
or
both
may
move
forward.
The
DPS
is
doing
its
own
study.
F
So
there's
going
to
be
a
look
at
this,
it's
definitely
going
to
be
an
issue
going
forward,
but
we'll
be
monitoring
really
to
avoid
adverse
impacts
for
BD
customers.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
our
customers
are
not
penalized
for
having
been
early
adopters
of
of
Renewables
on
the
McNeil
and
wood
energy
front.
The
climate
Council
held
a
meeting
and
ended
up
rejecting
by
a
pretty
significant
margin.
F
I
think
there
was
only
maybe
one
vote
in
favor
a
set
of
recommendations
that
would
have
been
adverse
for
McNeil
and
for
district
heat,
they've
kind
of
taken,
those
back
to
the
drawing
board
to
come
up
with,
hopefully,
a
better
set
of
recommendations.
That
would,
you
know,
be
a
little
more
nuanced
in
terms
of
their
application,
but
that
was
that
was
something
that
you
know.
We
we
don't.
F
There
will
be
on
I
believe
June
13th
in
the
evening
at
contoi's
Auditorium,
a
forum
by
the
transportation,
energy
utilities
Committee
of
the
city
council,
where
we
will
be
a
part
of
it
we're
going
to
bring
in
some
outside
experts
from
various
few
points
that
the
committee
is
going
to
invite.
Some
of
them
will
invite.
F
There
will
be
public
comment:
there
will
be
a
facilitated
q
a-
and
this
is
an
effort
by
the
committee
to
gather
more
information
about
McNeil
and
carbon
accounting
and
District
heat
ahead
of
are
potentially
being
able
to
bring
a
vote
to
the
city
council
sometime
this
summer
on
District
heat,
so
we'll
send
more
information.
But
if
you'd
like
mark
your
calendars
for
June,
13th,
6,
30
we'd
welcome,
you
know
one
or
more
Commissioners,
either
joining
or
calling
in
for
public
comment.
F
I'll
skip
one
item
for
a
moment
and
just
mention
any
excuse
to
throw
in
a
nice
photo
to
the
report.
I
always
take
so
here
I
did
want
to
mention.
We
have
these
these
nice
new
signs.
You
know
one
that
you've
seen
hopefully
coming
into
the
building
a
nice
bright
red,
BD
logo
and
then
the
Net
Zero
logo.
On
the
side
of
the
building
facing
Pine
Street,
we
had
a
great
visit
from
second
graders
at
Champlain
Elementary,
who
were
here
learning
about
different
careers.
So
they
learned
about
forestry.
F
They
learned
about
Energy
Efficiency,
you
know
being
a
line
worker
our
GIS
CAD
technician,
Raquel
talked
to
them
about
making
the
diagrams
of
the
grid
for
the
city.
We
had
a
really
nice
time
kind
of
working
with
them
talking
with
them
and
demonstrating
the
power
Town
setup,
as
well
as
the
Line
crew
trucks
and
Robin
Miller
ran
the
forklift
for
them
showed
them
how
that
works.
F
Don't
think
this
is
any
different
than
what
I've
shared
previously
I
just
have
more
confirmation
of
it,
which
is
in
2022
emissions
overall
in
the
sectors
we
track
ground
transportation
and
buildings,
thermal
we're
down
about
11.2
percent
relative
to
2018,
but
that
represents
a
mild
rebound
from
the
lows
of
the
pandemic.
When
we
were
down
at
one
point
about
15
percent,
the
state
came
out
with
new
data
on
their
emissions
inventory
the
tracks
through
2020
very
much.
F
The
result
we
were
seeing
with
the
pandemic,
where
you
know
everything
dropped
off,
and
then
they
expect
to
see
a
similar
Rebound
in
emissions
while
they
track
data
for
21
and
22..
The
good
news
is,
is
that
you
know
it
didn't
rebound
all
the
way
back
up
to
zero,
it's
still
down
11.2
percent,
and
it's
a
bit
of
a
mixed
bag
in
in
the
commercial
building
sector.
We
saw
Natural
Gas
use
up
significantly
between
21
and
22..
F
Part
of
it
could
be
that
we
had
it's
not
weather
normalized,
so
part
of
it
could
be
that
the
winner
in
early
22
was
was
cooler
and
people
were
using
more
gas
for
heating.
Some
of
it
could
be
new
construction.
This
is
not
a
per
capita
number,
so,
as
we
add
square
footage,
you'll
inevitably
see
some
additional
fuel
use.
F
So
some
of
the
some
of
the
policy
work
we've
done
will
impact
these
numbers
going
forward,
but
hasn't
yet,
and
it
also
just
happens
to
be
the
sector
where
District
would
make
the
impact
that
it
would
make
where
we
know
that
it
would
cut
between
11
and
a
half
and
15
percent
right
off
the
figure,
because
you'd
be
really
reducing
fossil
fuel
use
significantly
at
the
hospital
UVM.
So
that
to
me
is
another
argument
for
why
we're
doing
the
work
we're
doing
on
District
heat
on
the
more
positive
side
on
transportation.
F
We
actually
are
on
Pace
relative
to
gas
and
Diesel
use
with
the
roadmap's
ambitious
Pace,
not
purely
because
we've
gotten
everyone
to
adopt
EVS.
You
know.
Certainly,
we've
made
some
progress,
but
we're
not
at
the
pace
we
would
need
to
be,
but
because,
with
that
combined
with
the
reduced
vehicle
miles,
traveled
that
seems
to
have
been
sustained
coming
out
of
the
pandemic.
There's
been
some
rebound,
but
not
that
much
and
overall,
just
a
lower
number
of
vehicles.
F
In
Burlington
we
are
seeing
Transportation
fuel
usage
that
is
remaining
below
the
pace
of
the
Net
Zero
road
map.
So
that's
a
positive
and
we
we
hope
to
build
on
that
in
particular.
We're
thinking
that
there
may
be
a
great
opportunity
with
Green
Mountain
transit
to
add
a
number
of
new
electric
transit
buses
over
the
next
coming
few
years.
So
that'll
make
a
dent
there
as
well.
So
it's
a
it's
a
bit
of
a
mixed
result.
F
Haven't
gotten
to
vehicle
to
grid
with
those,
but
we're
definitely
always
thinking
about
time
abuse
with
those
Chargers.
So
James
and
his
team
have
worked
with
the
current
two
buses
and
the
charging
to
make
sure
that
we
can
charge
off
peak
at
the
lower
rates
and
as
that
capability
becomes
available,
it
would
certainly
be
something
those
would
be
the
size
of
vehicles
where,
if
you
were
able
to
tap
them,
it
would
be
significant.
H
Will
need
battery
discharge
right
off
of
that
even
void
them
being
connected
for
charging
sure
during
those
times
and
charging
charging
where
we
don't
really
need
battery
discharge
either.
So
again,
it's
not
our
first
thought
range
is
our
first
talk
sure
we're
trying
to
make
sure
that
they're
not
doing
charging
during
the
day.
F
Let
me
just
scroll
to
the
right:
that's
probably
in
the
Energy
Services
section,
just
hang
on
one
second,
there
we
go
sorry,
no,
no,
it's
okay
yeah!
So
we
have
not
in
our
section
of
the
airport,
but
there
is
geothermal
that
the
National
Guard
has
in
one
of
their
buildings
at
the
airport
and
so
we've,
and
this
just
kind
of
goes
back
to
the
s137,
because
that
gives
us
the
funding
to
do
geothermal
test
Wells,
which
has
been
very
popular.
F
F
You
know
a
good
geologic
spot
to
use
for
heating
and
cooling
or
not,
and
we
can
kind
of
de-risk
that
a
little
bit
so
I
think
we
see
a
lot
of
potential
here
with
geothermal
both
for
the
commercial
buildings
that
are
are
new
and
in
some
cases
Renovations
as
well
so
yeah.
This
would
be
exciting.
There's
a
lot
going
on
at
the
airport.
F
I
was
out
out
there
recently
with
some
of
our
team
to
visit
beta
and
see
their
kind
of
expansion
efforts
there
they're
on
our
side
and
the
GMP
side,
both
and
they're,
going
to
be
doing.
Manufacturing
they've
got
battery
storage,
so
adding
geothermal.
There
would
be
great,
but
yeah
I,
don't
have
anything
other
to
add
here.
We.
G
D
F
D
B
A
I
I
I
Looking
at
the
elements
of
that,
first
of
all,
sales
to
customers
were
down
very
modestly,
only
twenty
six
thousand
dollars
compared
to
budget
other
revenues
were
favorable
to
budget
by
205
000,
most
of
that
EU
immersements
reimbursements,
moving
to
expense.
You
see
what
makes
up
the
biggest
Delta
the
net
power
supply,
expense,
a
purchased
power
expenses
net,
sorry,
yeah
net
purchase
power
was
950
000
over
budget
combination
of
low
energy
prices.
I
We
received
591
thousand
dollars
Less
in
revenue
from
excess
sales
compared
to
what
we
had
budgeted
for
combination
of
lower
energy
prices
and
reduced
McNeil
and
wind
production.
We
also
saw
a
Mystic
capacity
charge
of
284
thousand
dollars
in
February,
so
those
two
combined
resulted
in
the
most
of
the
950
000
variants.
I
Fuel
was
slightly
over
budget
for
the
month.
Combination
of
production
under
budget
offset
by
a
wood
price
per
ton
higher
than
budget
transmission
fees
were
modestly
favorable
by
sixty
five
thousand
dollars,
so
energy
markets,
any
energy
prices
for
excess
energy
sales
and
Mystic
continue
to
be
the
the
headlines
once
again
this
month,
looking
at
other
operating
expense
that
was
worse
than
budget
by
356
thousand
dollars,
a
good
portion
of
that
was
expenses
related
to
repair
of
the
gas
turbine.
Those
will
be
or
have
been
capitalized.
I
I
I
E
F
So
actually,
if
this
will
be
the
final
budget,
assuming
you
prove
it,
and
there's
been
a
lot
of
work
that
took
place
just
between
the
last
meeting
and
this
meeting
to
bring
the
budget
where
it
is
and
23
and
24
interlinked
in
a
variety
of
ways.
As
you
just
saw,
we
have
a
number
of
challenges
to
overcome
this
year.
I
am
concerned
about
the
day's
cash
on
hand
metric
for
24
or
for
23.
Excuse
me,
I
think
it
is.
F
You
know,
challenged
because
of
that
variance,
and
we
have
very
limited
tools
to
affect
that.
We're
using
all
the
tools
we
can
and
our
forecast
for
cash
is
improved
since
we
started
seeing
some
of
that
variance
in
the
you
know,
December
January
time
frame,
so
we're
going
to
try
to
get
that
as
close
to
90
days
as
we
can.
We
don't
know
exactly
where
to
land
until
we're
done
the
adjusted
debt
service
coverage
ratio
for
23.
F
I'm
a
little
less
concerned
about
because
of
some
of
the
things
we'll
talk
about
in
the
budget
presentation,
including
the
accounting
order
that
we're
the
file
that
would
amortize
that
negative
variance
that
we
experienced
from
the
power
markets
over
a
period
of
years,
which
would
then
affect
our
net
income
and
our
income
statement
for
FY
23
and
allow
us
to
recover
in
rates
some
of
that
loss
over
the
subsequent
years
for
24.
This
has
got
to
be
the
toughest
budget
we've
had
to
do,
and
we've
had
some
tough
ones
and
I.
F
Think
the
you
know,
having
talked
having
been
at
a
department
head
meeting
today
and
learning
kind
of
where
the
city
is
I,
don't
think
we're
experiencing.
You
know
unique
things
here:
I
think
it's
tough
budgeting
kind
of
all
around
inflation
remains
challenging,
there's
because
of
inflation.
We
have
higher
than
typical
labor
colas
that
have
been
implemented
last
or
this
current
fiscal
year,
and
then
the
you
know
coming
up
in
24
those
are
affecting
the
budget.
F
I
So,
just
before
we
get
into
the
budget
the
context
most
of
the
with
most
of
this
you're,
familiar
with,
as
you
know,
we're
heading
into
this
budget
with
a
week
starting
cash
position
driven
by
those
Low
Winter
Energy
prices,
which
reduce
the
value
of
our
excess
winter
energy
that
we
sold.
It
continues
to
be
a
high
inflation
environment
everywhere
in
the
economy.
I
I
As
you
also
know,
I
think
sales
to
customers
are
generally
not
growing
right
now
we
are
seeing
some
uptick
in
the
residential
consumption,
but
on
the
commercial
side,
we've
lost
some
square
footage
over
the
past
seven
to
eight
years,
and
you
know
things
are
becoming
more
efficient,
which
is
wonderful
and
great,
but
that
we're
not
seeing
the
the
sales
of
residential
heat
pumps
and
residential
EVS
kind
of
make
up
for
those
losses
right
not
yet
anyway,
there's
continued
uncertainty.
Looking
at
the
prices
for
next
winter.
I
E
I
That's
what
that
means.
Well
it.
It
means
that
we
could
demonstrate
a
need
for
a
rate
increase
of
14
in
order
to
generate
enough
net
income.
That's
twice
our
interest
payment.
That's
the
metric
that
a
rule
of
thumb
for
how
much
net
income
you
know.
Should
you
be
allowed
to
have
set
by
the
Department
of
Public
Service,
so
essentially
take
your
your
interest
payment,
multiply
it
by
2
and
that's
your
allowable,
reasonable
net
income.
It's
called
a
two-tier
times:
interest
earned.
I
You
can
justify
it's
the
payment
on
our
fixed
interest
debt,
so
we're
lucky
to
have
fixed
interest
debt,
so
the
budget
this
year
the
it
really
wasn't
about,
unfortunately
improving
our
Moody's
metrics.
It
was
really
about
keeping
them
stable,
while
minimizing
the
rate
increase
that
we
asked
of
the
community.
I
Just
a
picture
of
the
sales,
so
you
can
see
kind
of
what
we're
talking
about
this
is
where
they've
been.
Since
you
know
it's
in
the
2000s,
you
can
see
some
dips
here
and
here
for
recessions.
This
is
when
the
hospital
did
a
big
expansion.
You
can
see
the
impact
of
that
somewhere
around
2010.
You
couldn't
buy
incandescent
light
bulbs
anymore
right
for
the
federal
efficiency
standards,
so
that
we
think
has
had
an
impact
kind
of
overall
Blodgett
Ovens
closed
in
2017
or
didn't
close.
They
relocated
their
facilities
from
Burlington
in
2017.
I
and
in
2019.
The
the
Town
Center
was
came
down
and
hasn't
been
rebuilt.
Yet
and
of
course,
we
know
what
happened
in
2020.
so
kind
of
when
you
combine
the
efficiency
gains
with
the
loss
of
commercial
square
footage,
which
makes
up
most
of
our
sales,
you
kind
of
see
where
we
are,
and
we've
we've
certainly
rebounded
out
of
the
pandemic.
But
you
know
we've
rebounded
to
almost
2019,
which
historically
was
sort
of
much
lower
than
we'd,
been.
You
know
any
of
the
18
previous
years
to
that
to.
F
D
F
You
know
we
have
a
system
with
inflation,
particularly
that
the
cost
of
the
system
have
not
gotten
cheaper.
The
cost
of
the
system
have
gotten
more
expensive,
but
the
units
being
sold
have
gone
down
and
partly
for
good
reason,
partly
because
of
efficiency.
We're
for
that.
We
want
that
partly
for
Less,
desirable
reasons,
like
you
know,
changes
in
economic
activity,
closures
that
haven't
reopened.
Yet
those
are
not
things
we're
looking
for
and
what
we
really
need
is
for
this
to
start
rebounding
back
up
because
of
either
economic
activity
or
electrification.
F
That's
reducing
fossil
fuel
use,
so
we
get
more
units
because
the
more
units
you
have
without
exacerbating
the
system
cost
the
cheaper.
The
per
unit
price
would
be
all
things
equal,
and
so
it's
a
really
long-term
reduce
our
rate
pressure,
our
upward
rate
pressure.
We
need
this
to
change
and
we
need
electrification
to
kick
in
in
a
meaningful
way.
E
F
When
we
used
to
go
to
legislature,
we
said
we
use
about
350
000
megawatt
hours
a
year
and
I've
had
to
change
it
to
330
and
then
320
and
then
during
the
pandemic
310
and
now
it's
coming
back
up
a
little
but
the
Delta
over
time,
combined
with
the
fact
that
the
system
cost
all
things
equal
is
more
expensive.
Not
less
is
part
of
the
challenge,
so.
D
F
I
I
That
is
the
sort
of
the
average
growth
between
2007
and
2016..
So
expenses
grew
in
that
period
by
5.84
percent.
The
red
line
shows
where
they'd
be
today.
If
they
continued
on
that
trajectory,
looking
from
2016
to
now,
they've
actually
grown
only
3.7
percent.
On
average,
we,
the
team,
cut
over
about
6.4
million
dollars
of
expense
during
the
course
of
this
budget
development
and
our
controllable
non-power,
Supply
operating
and
maintenance
expenses
are
actually
2.3
percent
lower
than
last
year's
budget.
I
So
kind
of
with
all
of
that
context,
I
then
wanted
to
talk
about
the
budget
itself
in
your
packet.
Are
many
pages
of
detail
which
I'm
happy
to
take
questions
about.
Cheryl
can
tell
me
where
I
go
astray,
but
just
kind
of
high
level
we're
assuming
operating
revenues
of
65.1
million.
That
includes
the
rate
increase
of
five
and
a
half
percent
effective
on
bills
rendered
September.
I
1St
operating
revenues
in
total
are
two
and
a
half
percent
higher
than
last
year's
budget
underlying
kilowatt
hour
sales,
as
you
just
saw,
are
relatively
flat
compared
to
FY
23
and
our
rec
sales
revenue
is,
you
know
mod
at
very
minorly
decreased
less
than
two
percent,
so
it's
you
know.
I
would
call
that
roughly
where
it
was
last
year,
operating
expenses
are
67.2
million.
That's
overall,
four
percent
higher
than
last
year's
budget
differences
from
last
year's
budget.
I
Most
most
significantly
are
reduced
assumptions
around
the
sales
of
excess
winter
energy,
which
is
an
offset
to
purchase
power,
expense
and
that
line
on
them
and
the
budget
is
reduced
by
one
and
a
half
million
dollars
or
about
25
percent
and
that's
lower
to
due
to
lower
assumptions
about
the
the
price
of
winter
energy,
we're
assuming,
on
average
for
the
winter
124
dollars
per
megawatt
hour.
Last
year,
we
budgeted
for
188
dollars
on
average
and.
F
So
the
flag-
this
is
this
is
a
risk
point
in
the
budget
just
like
it
was
last
year,
but
it's
not
as
big
of
a
risk
point
because
we're
budgeting
more
conservatively
based
on
the
current
forwards
being
lower
than
what
they
were
at
this
time
last
year.
So
if
we
have
another
winner,
that's
identical
to
the
one
we
just
had.
F
F
So
yeah
this
is
this
is
a
line
that
broke
against
us
against
us
completely
this
past
year,
we're
hoping
it
doesn't
break
against
us
completely
again
this
year.
You
know
if
it
came
in
in
line
with
expectations
or
even
even
a
little
below
expectations,
but
just
not
dramatically
below.
We
would
probably
do
okay
with
this
budget,
but
this
is
something
we
will
look
at
and
we
will
obviously
consider,
as
we
did
last
year,
options
to
lock
in
a
portion
of
that
ahead
of
time
if
the
prices
are
are
good
to
reduce
the
risk.
F
I
A
D
H
H
H
H
C
H
H
These
intentions
for
utility
to
make
sure
the
plants
remained
there
for
a
period
of
time,
while
other
units
came
online
and
things
like
solves
that
problem
or
not
it's
hard
to
say.
But
you
know
not.
If
you
have
that
plant
online,
it
doesn't
do
any
good
if
it
doesn't
have
fuel,
so
they
pre-position
tankers.
D
H
Natural
liquid
natural
gas
off
the
upper
airport
and
then,
if
the
prices
weren't
there,
they
had
to
burn
it
at
a
loss.
That's
why
I
say
if
the
energy
prices
are
low,
you
get
hit
twice
if
you're
Burlington
electric,
if
you
hit
somebody
else,
might
be,
might
be
only
one
hit,
but
we
had
the
excess
energy
from
our
sales
being.
I
And
then
the
next
bullet
I
want
to
call
your
attention
to
is
that
there
is
an
additional
amortization
expense
assumed
in
this
budget.
We
will
be
in
the
next
three
weeks
or
so
filing
an
accounting
order,
with
the
Public
Utility
Commission,
to
request
the
ability
to
amortize
our
roughly
four
million
dollar
loss
of
sales
from
the
excess
energy
over
a
period
of
eight
years.
So
that
will
reduce
our
expense
in
FY.
23
won't
help
our
cash
at
all,
of
course,
but
it
will
help
our
net
income
and
therefore
our
adjusted
debt
service
coverage
ratio
and.
I
It's
a
yes,
it's
a
it's
a
it's!
The
ability
to
do
essentially
non-gaap
accounting
or
the
ability
to
count
for
account
for
something
in
a
different
way
than
normal
accounting
rules
would
allow
you
to
do
so
so,
basically
you're
taking
that
expense.
Instead
of
taking
it
all
in
one
year,
you're
spreading
it
out
over
eight
years,
so
it
improves
our
it
would,
if
approved,
improve
our
results.
Our
reported
results
for
FY
23,
but
you're,
spreading
it
out
over
eight
years.
I
I
It
I
mean
it
adds
actually
a
little
pressure
to
the
cost
of
service,
because
that
529
000
is
included
as
additional
expense,
but
it
it
does
allow
us
to
if
we
chose
to
collect-
or
you
know,
kind
of
make
up
for
those
lost
revenues
through
rates.
If
we
were
to
ask
for
the
full
amount
that
we
could
justify,
so
it
kind
of
preserves
our
ability
to
build
some
of
that
lost
cash
back
in
Future
rate
increases.
If
we
chose
to
file
for
the
full
amount.
E
I
F
No
okay,
all
right!
No,
you
know
what
would
really
like
if
we
were
Green,
Mountain,
Power
or
Vermont
Gas,
and
we
had
a
fuel
adjuster,
and
this
had
happened.
We
would
have
had
an
automatic
increase
in
our
rates
for
our
commodity
costs
for
a
three
or
four
month
period.
While
this
was
going
on
and
we
would
have
recovered
it
all
right,
then.
D
F
Don't
have
that
so
this
is
our
much
clunkier
version
of
that,
where
we
don't
recover
any
of
the
money
in
the
year
that
it
impacted
us,
but
we
preserve
our
ability
to
potentially
recover
it
in
rates
in
the
future.
If
we
go
in
and
ask
for
the
maximum
that
we're
allowed
to
ask
for
so
it
preserves
some
optionality
at
a
minimum
and
it
does,
as
Emily
mentioned
kind
of
benefit,
our
adjusted
debt
metric
to
make
sure
that
it
reflects
what
our
budget
would
have
looked
like
had.
D
F
We've
had
accounting
orders
in
the
past
for
things
that
are
kind
of
an
unexpected
expense
during
a
certain
period
of
time.
For
example,
we
had
a
you
know:
we've
had
them
with
McNeil
in
the
past
when
we've
had
some
specific,
you
know,
maintenance
costs
that,
were
you
know,
either
during
a
certain
duration
of
time
or
unexpected
things
like
that.
H
I
Okay,
so,
additionally,
I
just
wanted
to
call
to
your
attention
that
when
you
take
out
the
excess
energy
sales
and
you
take
out
Mystic
net
power,
supply
expense
is
only
up
two
percent
compared
to
FY
23..
So
when
you
look
at
the
numbers
side
by
side
in
the
income
statement,
comparison
there's
a
really
big
Delta,
but
the
volatility
of
the
energy
forwards
and
the
additional
expense
for
the
Mystic
capacity
payments
are
driving
a
lot
of
that
volatility.
The
difference
right
from
the
in
the
year
to
year
comparison.
I
I
You
can
see
the
pie
chart
there
on
the
right
shows
you
that
most
of
that
is
going
to
the
distribution
plant
about
2
million
to
our
generation
facilities,
1.34
million
to
general,
which
is
things
like
I.T
and
Fleet
and
buildings,
and
then
other
I
know
includes
some
safety
equipment
and
I
can't
remember
if
the
EV
Chargers
are
in
other
or
in
general
they're
in
other
two.
Yes,
thank
you
Cheryl!
So
the
that's
where
EV
charging
infrastructure
Falls
as
well.
I
I
Well,
above
the
1.25
we
need,
we
would
have
an
adjusted
debt
service
coverage
ratio
of
1.09
and
we
would
have
exactly
90
days,
cash
on
hand,
taking
the
three-year
average
of
where
we're
projecting
to
end
this
year.
That's
what
you
can
see
for
comparison
in
the
column,
to
the
right,
that's
fy21,
actual
FY,
22
actual
and
then
FY
23
forecasted
and
position
in
the
average
of
those
three.
I
G
D
I
I
That
is
part
of
the
city
Charter,
our
ability
to
borrow
to
that
level,
because
it's
indebtedness
which
either
has
to
be
voter,
approved
or
in
the
charter
since
1999
are
operating.
Expenses
have
essentially
doubled,
and
so
that
5
million
is
providing
us
a
lot
less
days
of
cash
right
when
your
operating
expenses
are
twice
what
they
were
at
the
time.
So
it's
I
think
quite
a
certainty
that,
at
the
2024
town
meeting
day
will
be
asking
to
include
on
the
ballot
a
an
item
for
voter
approval.
I
To
increase
that
line,
I
would
say:
we'd
ask
at
least
to
double
it,
but
probably
more
than
that
to
allow
some
Headroom
or
maybe
it
can
adjust
with
inflation
or
or
something
like
that,
to
allow
that
line
to
sort
of
keep
up
in
relation
to
our
operating
expenses
and
then
finally,
you've
seen
what
a
critical
part
of
the
capital
financing
puzzle.
The
revenue
bond
is
we're,
anticipating
that
we'll
be
asking
for
a
second
Revenue
Bond
as
part
of
the
fy25
budget.
I
I
F
I
F
And
really
we'd
always
envisioned
the
revenue
Bond
as
a
40
million
dollar
need,
but
we
broke
it
up,
thinking
that
we
didn't
want
to
ask
for
and
have
to
spend
the
entirety
of
it
in
a
three-year
period.
So
we
asked
for
the
first
20
million
as
part
of
the
vote
that
happened,
December
of
21.,
with
the
idea
that
you
know
assuming
the
need
was
still
there,
which
we
anticipate.
It
will
be
that
we'd
come
back
and
ask
for
the
second
part
of
it.
I
I
D
F
To
copy
this
one,
there
yeah
just
obviously
we're
going
to
continue
to
make
the
Investments
in
all
the
key
items
related
to
Net
Zero.
As
you
can
see,
you
know
roughly
a
little
over
three
million
between
tier
three
and
the
efficiency
programs
in
Investments
for
rebates
and
incentives,
and
then,
above
and
beyond
that,
the
revenue
Bond
Investments
that
are
taking
place
in
infrastructure
charging
stations.
You
know
electric
vehicles
for
the
fleet,
the
electric
bucket
truck,
that's
coming
in
2024.
F
You
know
level
two
and
level
three
Chargers
we're
working
to
try
to
get
level
twos
in
a
number
of
the
parks
around
the
community
and
we're
also
working
and
I
think
this
is
a
key
point.
We
have
through
the
revenue,
Bond
potential
matching
funds,
well
timed
for
a
number
of
different
federal
grants
both
for
EV
charging
for
battery
storage.
So
the
fact
that
we
have
that
Capital
available
is
going
to
benefit
us
if
we're
successful
with
one
or
more
of
these
applications
for
federal
or
state
funding.
F
So
we're
going
to
continue
with
all
of
that.
We've
got
some
other
exciting
things
like
the
heat
pump.
You
know
rate
pilot
that
I've
talked
about
a
little
bit
and
really
you
all
know
this,
so
this
is
in
part
for
the
board
of
Finance
city
council,
since
we're
using
the
same
set
of
slides
so
that
we
can
share
with
them
how
we're
continuing
to
invest
in
in
all
these
different
areas.
F
Of
stuff
well,
the
original
Revenue
Bond,
the
original
20
million.
We
had
roughly
specked
out
that
a
little
over
7
million
of
it
was
for
traditional
reliability,
investments
in
the
distribution
system
and
around
five.
Some
odd
million
was
for
electrification
upgrades
and
then
the
remainder
was
for
it:
infrastructure
for
renewable
plant
maintenance
and,
for
you
know,
EV
charging
and
other
kind
of
electrification,
Investments.
E
E
F
Think
you
know
our
cost
increases
are
not
zero.
Our
competitors
cost
increases
are
not
zero
right,
so
we
know
that.
Obviously
we
don't
want
to
raise
rates
all
things
equal,
because
we
don't
want
to
burden
the
community
and
we
want
to
keep
the
cost
of
electrification
as
low
as
possible.
End
use
rates
will
help
with
that
too.
So
you
know
you
can
charge
your
EV
a
lot
cheaper
than
you
can
turn
on
your
lights.
F
If
you
go
off
peak
with
the
EV,
we're
hoping
to
do
the
same
in
a
way
for
the
heat,
pumps
and
other
Technologies,
but
I
think
even
if
we
were
to
turn
off
the
spigot
entirely
with
the
incentives
and
the
programs,
this
wave
is
coming.
The
federal
government
set
it
in
motion.
The
state
has
set
it
in
motion,
so
I
view
our
job,
even
if
we
were
to
not
do
incentives,
which
we
very
much
want
to
do
for
all
the
reasons
you
mentioned.
F
Our
job
is
to
be
ahead
of
the
wave
by
at
least
enough
that
no
customer
ends
up
in
a
situation
where
we
heard
earlier,
not
because
they
couldn't
upgrade
their
panel.
But
what?
If
the
grid
couldn't
accommodate
what
they
were
trying
to
do
do
like
what,
if
our
system
couldn't
accommodate
I,
don't
want
to
be
in
that
position.
Their
infrastructure
at
their
home
is
kind
of
an
interesting
and
separate
challenge
that
we
also
want
to
help
with.
F
A
F
F
F
So
if
there's
any,
if
there
was
any
information
within
that
that
you
wanted
to
go
into
more
detail
on
we're
happy
to,
but
I
didn't
want
to
repeat
the
same
presentation
given
that
you
know
happily.
In
some
sense,
we
didn't
have
to
go
to
a
higher
number
and
obviously
we
weren't
able
to
lower
it
any
further
either.
D
A
I
Thank
you
so,
as
part
of
our
budget,
we've
assumed
again
annual
General
obligation,
Bond
financing
in
the
amount
of
three
million
dollars.
This
is
General
obligation,
debt,
backed
by
the
full
faith
and
credit
of
the
city
issued
by
the
city
as
part
of
their
annual
Geo
Bond,
issuance
with
3
million
of
that
allocated
to
bed
for
our
use
in
capital,
Investments
and
I.
Think
it
says
you
know
anything.
We
need
to
make
the
Electric
Plant
work.
Well,
something
like
this
very,
very
broad
usage,
Authority,
so
yeah.
D
A
G
H
H
So
I
believe
I've
been
asked
to
postpone
the
18
slide
presentation
until
next
meeting
the
IRP
forecast.
Powerpoints
you
want
me
to
go
through
is
about
18,
slides
long
yeah,
so
I'll
give
a
quick
update
and
just
say
that
work
continues
in
the
IRP
KC
is
generating
what
we
call
Mini
models.
They
are
evaluations
of
the
customer,
utility
and
societal
economics
of
various
measures
that
are
going
into
the
IRP.
H
My
understandings
he's
delivered
to
Tom
the
portions
he
needs
for
what
we
call
the
Energy
Services
chapter,
which
is
really
the
tier
three
measures.
The
Energy
Efficiency
is
kind
of
done
on
its
own
for
for
an
integrated
plan,
a
lot
of
it's
done
in
different
places
and
different
times
you
have
to
admire
that.
He's
now
will
be
working
on
the
actual
resource
chapter
of
the
IRP.
The
economic
study
for
McNeil
and
the
carbon
study
for
McNeil
are
almost
finished.
There
are
some
last
edits.
H
H
The
forecast
well
yeah,
not
without
the
PowerPoint
in
front
of
me,
I
mean
the
load.
The
load
is
growing.
It
depends
on
which
scenario
you're
looking
at
right.
If
you
look
at
the
conservative
scenarios,
they're
growing
little
or
known,
if
you
look
at
the
optimistic
scenarios
where
electrification
is
aggressive,
they're
growing
fairly
aggressively,
but
they're
not
growing
as
well
as
we
talked
about
this
not
growing
as
fast
as
the
Net
Zero
road
map
showed,
because
there
are
measures
that
are
not
included
in
the
forecast
at
this
time.
Yeah.
E
H
Well,
so
again
we,
the
the
T.
Indeed,
work
is
being
done
at
a
couple
of
stages
at
this
point,
so
we
we
know
80
megawatts
approximately
is
the
system
capability
today
with
what
I
would
call
benevolent
load
growth,
which
is
load
growth
that
happily
occurs
equally
on
all
circuits.
You
know,
based
on
their
capability
to
hold
load
growth.
We've
done
the
analysis
at
just
over
100
megawatts
for
the
last
IRP
that
has
been
updated
with
new
costing
to
reflect
the
increases
in
inflation,
and
things
like
that.
H
Engineering
has
done
120
megawatt
case,
which
will
be
included
in
this
IRP,
which
shows
the
work
necessary
to
go
from
the
102.8
to
120
megawatts.
We
are
probably
not
going
to
do
the
140
megawatt
case
in
this
IRP
and
it
may
not
actually
be
necessary
at
all.
If
load
control
is
sufficient
to
keep
it
from
occurring.
That's
the
that's
essentially
was
as
I
think
the
way
they
did
it
in
that
model
was
controlled,
EV
charging,
uncontrolled
Heating
so
and
it
was
a
winter
Peak.
H
H
D
E
A
E
I
wanted
to
make
a
comment
following
up
from
the
public
comment:
I
was
a
little
bit
curmudgeonly
and
I.
Thank
you
for
being
more
a
complete
and
conciliatory
there,
but
but
I
still
I'm
a
little
freaked
in
that
we
are
making
a
long-term
effort
in
demand
management
and
the
idea
of
spikes
that
you
know
blow
the
system
and
demand.
A
quick
response
is
a
little
antithetical
to
that.
E
E
So
likewise,
here
and
about
that
we
talked
about
a
build
out
of
I.T
and
so
on
that
just
was
accomplished
and
I
keep
coming
back
to
time
of
day
rates.
We
have
some
time
of
day
rates
now
for
EV
charging
and
all
that's
great,
but
what
James
just
mentioned,
which
was
basically
managing
winter
thermal
with
some
kind
of
time
management
sounds
great
and
I
hope
we
don't
I,
know
we're
not
going
to
lose
track
of
it,
but
the
discussion
well.
E
F
F
Yeah,
the
code
and
the
permitting
really
they
require
you
to
over,
build
your
your
panel
relative
to
the
amperage
that
you
could
max
out.
So
we
know
that's
going
to
be
an
issue
and
we
know
people
are
going
to
need
upgraded
service
and
there
are
some
smart
technologies
that
can
manage
it
and
we'll
we'll
certainly
kind
of
investigate
those
and
then
I
view
that
as
somewhat
separate
from
the
okay.
F
Now
with
what
you've
got,
how
are
you
using
it
and
can
we
manage
the
usage
which
we
are
very
much
interested
in
and
we
are,
with
the
heat
pump
pilot,
we're
hopeful
to
be
able
to
do
load,
I,
wouldn't
say,
load
control,
but
I
would
say:
Peak
reduction.
You
know,
impacts
with
heat
pumps
where
we
can
moderate
the
you
know,
temperature
a
little
bit
during
the
winter
time
and
during
the
summer
time.
E
F
F
E
H
E
H
B
The
chance
of
the
capacity
is
there
for
them
to
go
over
right.
So
if
they're
putting
in
EV
Chargers
battery
Banks
solar,
if
they
only
have
100
amp
panel,
they
might
you're
right,
they're,
probably
only
going
to
use
not
all
together,
probably
maybe
15
amps
20
amps
when
they're
running,
but
the
capability
of
them
to
go
over
that
Peak
is
what
the
national
electrical
looks
at.
So
if
you
have
the
capability
that,
if
everything
came
on,
you
would
peek
out
and
trip
your
main
breaker
we
can't
have.
They
can't
have
that.
E
B
E
A
Her
complaint,
the
house
was
built
that
you
know
the
house,
it's
an
older
house
that
only
has
so
much
you
know
capacity
and
now
there's
now
there's
this
because
they're
trying
to
you
know
do
all
these
things
the
right
way.
There's
this
there's
this
other
there's.
This
other
roadblock
called
having
to
upgrade
their
thing
that
that's
and.
H
I'll,
throw
it
I
thought
the
demand
management
panel
is
not
actually
the
problem
by
the
way.
For
me,
panels
are
twelve
hundred
dollars.
Eighteen
hundred
dollars,
I
have
an
underground
service
and
that's
a
200
amp
underground
service.
Now
I,
don't
even
know
what
the
cost
to
replace
so
I
can't
put
anything
at
my
house.
Even
though
I've
got
open,
breaker
spaces,
I
I'm
limited.
So
it's
it's.