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From YouTube: Burlington Development Review Board - 1/11/2023
Description
https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/sites/default/files/Agendas/2023%20011123%20Agenda_0.pdf
00:00:00 Call to Order
00:00:12 ZP-22-576; 20 Pine Street (FD6, Ward 3C) Cathedral Immaculate Conception, Parish
Charitable Trust / John Caulo
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A
A
A
A
A
Okay,
if
you
feel
that
you
have
something
else
to
add
or
want
to
add,
we
are
giving
any
member
of
the
public
two
minutes
to
speak.
There
are
many
people
we
hope
we
we
made
that
clear
and
we
are
welcoming
anybody
to
submit
additional
written
EV.
We
were
welcoming
everybody
to
submit
additional
written
evidence.
There's
probably
a
sign-in
sheet
somewhere
here.
A
A
What
do
you
say
and
our
intent
is
to
end
this
at
6
30.?
We
understand
that
people
have
a
lot
to
say.
We
very
much
appreciate
the
feedback,
and
so
with
that
I
suppose
we're
open
the
floor
for
public
comment.
Who
wants
to
go
first,
oh
I
have
to
give
an
oath
to
everybody,
we're
gonna.
Do
it
that
way,
I'm
gonna!
Do
it
all
at
once.
A
A
C
A
C
I
bought
those
houses
and
I
donated
them
to
the
Catholic
church
and
I
wanted
to
know.
If
the
Catholic
church
is
trying
to
demolish
their
own
church,
they
should
demolish
those
houses
too,
because
the
Arlington
Hunter
was
perpetrating
evustration
in
those
houses
and
that's
why
I
bought
them
to
kick
them
off
the
property
and
I'll
just
say
one
more
thing:
I,
don't
think
it's
a
safe
place
to
go
to
church
anymore.
C
B
D
Minutes:
okay
I'm
here,
like
many
others,
to
support
the
preservation
and
reuse
of
the
cathedral
and
its
Kylie,
designed
Garden.
To
that
end,
I
want
to
read
a
brief
Innovative
suggestion
for
adaptive,
reuse
by
Burlington,
architect,
Louis
Manny
Leone,
who
was
unable
to
attend
in
person
this
evening.
D
The
Cathedral
of
the
Immaculate
Conception
can
be
adapted
to
continue
to
serve
our
community
as
the
site
of
a
municipal
Department
of
the
environment,
with
a
paid
director
and
staff
and
a
commission
to
deal
comprehensively
with
the
impacts
of
global
warming,
environmental
degradation
and
the
need
for
environmental
justice
at
the
local
level.
There
must
be
both
federal
and
state
monies
for
this
under
recent
legislation,
and
there
could
be
a
joint
participation
with
the
Department
of
Natural
Resources
at
the
University
of
Vermont.
D
A
D
E
F
H
F
I
But
I
do
think
that
the
Groundswell,
as
it
has
emerged
here
of
opposition,
is
a
sign
that,
if
we
need
any
other
evidence,
sacredness
or
Sacred
Space
or
the
value
of
places
that
we
build
in
the
world
is
not
limited
to
any
individual
group
or
organization
as
they
Define
it
for
themselves.
Otherwise
said
this
place
in
the
City
of
Burlington
has
clearly
taken
on
a
specialness
that
many
scholars
of
religion
would
label
sacred
aside
from
particular
religious
definitions
and
I,
think
it
leaves
us
with
a
responsibility.
I
I
would
urge
the
board
not
not
to
Grant
the
demolition
permit,
not
as
any
definitive
statement
against
the
Catholic
church,
but
instead
simply
as
a
way
to
create
a
space
for
what
should
be
a
kind
of
collaboration
effort,
what
form
it
might
take.
Adaptive,
reuse,
public,
private
cooperation,
I'm,
not
sure,
but
the
very
narrow,
Limited
nature
of
the
request,
we're
not
going
to
say
what
we
might
do
in
the
future.
We
simply
want
to
demolish.
It.
I
think
it's
incumbent
upon
us
as
a
community
to
recognize
that
it
has
accrued
a
certain
kind
of
value.
J
Great,
thank
you
very
much.
My
name
is
Devin
Coleman
I'm
a
resident
of
Burlington
and
serve
on
the
board
of
preservation.
Burlington
you've
obviously
been
presented
with
overwhelming
evidence
of
the
public
support
and
interest
in
this
property,
but
I
think
it's
really
important
to
acknowledge.
What's
really
going
on
here,
which
is
that
an
unnamed
developer,
who
hasn't
revealed
any
development
plans,
is
doing
this
as
an
end
run
around
our
zoning
ordinance
using
the
applicant
as
a
partner.
J
The
ordinance
tries
to
balance
the
preservation
of
significant
features
against
other
competing
interests.
State
law
seeks
to
protect
religious
uses,
but
there
is
no
religious
use
here.
The
building
is
not
being
used
as
a
church
has
not
been
used
as
such
for
four
years
the
altar
has
been
removed.
There
is
no
altar
in
this
building.
They
cannot
hold
Mass
there.
J
J
A
year
ago,
the
city
rejected
an
identical
application
on
these
very
grounds.
What's
changed?
Neither
the
local
zoning
ordinance
nor
state
law
4413
contemplate
ownership,
as
the
trigger
4413
is
only
triggered
by
potential
interference
with
the
intended
functional
use
of
the
property.
There
is
no
religious
use
taking
place
here
and
there
will
not
be
because
the
applicant
is
trying
to
sell
and
demolish
it.
J
We
understand
that
some
staff
believe
that
state
law
precludes
zoning
review.
We
disagree,
but
that's
a
question
for
the
courts.
We
shouldn't
lose
the
building.
In
the
meantime,
we've
all
suffered
from
the
consequences
of
the
pit
across
the
street,
which
was
ushered
through
the
permitting
process,
with
no
Assurance
of
its
viability,
and
we
see
how
that
has
turned
out.
Let's
not
make
the
same
mistake
here,
where
the
fate
of
a
historically
significant
property
hangs
in
the
balance.
Thank
you.
B
K
K
I'll
be
fast,
Burlington
must
not
allow
demolition
of
this
important,
landmark,
building
and
site,
and
we
can
legally
do
so.
I
have
specialized
in
the
Adaptive
reuse
of
buildings
as
an
architect
since
1974.
this
building
can
easily
be
adapted
for
many
uses,
some
at
far
less
cost
than
Demolition
and
removal.
K
One
of
the
most
likely
adaptive
views
now
comes
with
adequate
funding
not
available
until
this
year,
due
to
the
millions
of
dollars
in
the
current
state
budget
to
support,
affordable
housing,
this
site
can
easily
support
small
new
apartments
in
the
rectangular
parts
of
the
building
west
of
the
beautiful
Sanctuary.
The
sanctuary
itself
has
a
large
open
space
and
it
easily
adaptable
to
multitude
of
uses,
including
meals,
homeless,
services
and
meeting
space.
K
A
new
building
can
be
built
in
the
current
parking
lot
east
of
the
church.
This
part
of
the
site
can
provide
parking
on
the
ground
level
and
several
stories
of
affordable
apartments
or
high-end
Condominiums
above
it
depending
on
how
it
is
funded.
All
of
this
can
be
done
without
any
demolition.
This
could
be
a
win-win
situation.
K
I
am
a
member
of
the
Burlington
design,
Advisory
board.
At
the
same
meeting
that
we
unanimously
voted
to
deny
the
permit
for
the
demolition,
we
asked
that
the
City
attorney
clarified
in
writing
the
debated
issue
about
why
we
think
that
the
applicant's
statement
that
the
city
has
no
jurisdiction
is
false.
As
of
yesterday,
I
was
told
that
she
has
not
done
that.
K
The
application
letter
from
Monsignor
rossier
contends
that
the
goal
of
the
demolition
is
to
quote,
remove
the
cathedral
and
take
the
property
out
of
liturgical
use.
How,
therefore,
the
intended
functional
use
is
not
Church
related
and
the
exemption
for
the
religious
functions
does
not
apply,
since
no
religious
functions
are
intended
without
that
exemption.
An
applicant
for
demolition
needs
to
prove
that
the
new
building
to
replace
this
one
will
be
better
value
to
the
community,
the
applicant
and
everyone
else,
including
the
secret
developers.
K
They
say
they
have
a
contract
to
buy
the
property.
If
the
billing
is
gone
knows
that
they
cannot
meet
the
standard
protections.
Sir,
for
sir
one
sentence,
protection
for
religious
functions
are
designed
to
avoid
the
Discrimination
in
unfair
regulation
not
to
allow
religious
land
owner
to
circumvent
our
zoning
and
planning
regulations
in
order
to
close
or
resale
for
the
real
estate.
Thank
you.
G
L
It
would
make
more
sense
to
me
to
have
a
place
for
the
growing
residential
population
of
this
area
to
enjoy,
and
besides
the
worship
area,
it
has
a
kitchen
and
large
meeting
room
in
the
basement,
and
there
is
some
space,
including
an
office
above
the
main
floor
and
that's
the
side
of
the
aesthetic
value
of
the
building
and
its
surroundings.
Now
that's
what
I
wanted
to
say
tonight.
Thank.
A
M
Excuse
me
I
will
that's
right
there,
all
right,
yeah
I,
might
get
to
that,
sir,
but
anyway,
thank
you
for
the
opportunity.
My
name
is
Scott
Newman
I
am
my
wife
and
three
daughters
live
on
Ward
Street
in
the
old
North
End
less
than
a
mile
from
the
cathedral,
I'm
also
a
30-year
stored
preservation,
professional
15
years
as
preservation
officer
for
v-trans
and
15
years.
Consulting
first
I
want
to
acknowledge
the
startling
amount
of
regional
and
national
attention
behind
advocacy
for
saving
this
downtown
property.
M
Sometimes
it
takes
the
viewpoints
of
people
looking
in
for
us
to
understand
the
value
of
what's
in
our
own
communities.
Unlike
most
of
Burlington's
downtown
buildings,
the
cathedral
was
built
for
devotion
not
for
profit,
rising
from
a
tragic
arson
that
destroyed
the
gothic
style
predecessor
in
1972.
This
Cathedral
testifies
to
Burlington's
Collective
faith
and
optimism
for
the
future.
Let's
not
swing
a
wrecking
ball
into
the
optimism.
If
Burlington
needs
optimism,
it
needs
it
now.
In
my
10
years,
preservation
officer
for
V
trans
I
managed
over
2
000
reviews
among
them
was
the
downtown
Transit.
M
Center
and
I
can
tell
you
in
negotiating.
Excuse
me
I.
Can
tell
you
that
project
stakeholders,
Municipal
state
and
federal,
were
diligent
negotiating
a
design
and
site
plan
that
respected
the
den
Kylie
landscape
and
Barnes
Design
Cathedral,
both
determined
eligible
for
the
national
registered
historic
places.
O
P
My
name
is
John
Mahoney
and
I
would
first
like
to
thank
you
all
for
serving
on
this
city.
Commission
I
grew
up
in
the
cathedral.
Parish
in
Burlington
and
I
have
vivid
memories
of
the
night.
The
old
church
burned
down
as
I
joined
other
volunteers
and
moved
Church
records
from
The
rectory's
Vault
into
the
aisles
at
Idol's
market
around
the
corner
on
Pearl
Street
I
was
married
in
the
now
closed
Church
in
1987..
P
The
suggestion
that
the
church
building
needs
to
be
torn
down
so
that
I
won't
suffer
emotional
hurt
I
find
specious.
Indeed,
the
emotional
hurt
will
occur
when
the
church
is
torn
down.
I
think
that
the
former
Church
could
and
would
be
a
tremendous
venue
as
a
place
for
lectures
concerts
or
as
a
practice.
Space
for
performing
arts
groups
does
Champlain
College
need
a
venue
for
large
gatherings.
P
P
Recently,
the
Methodist
congregation
in
Ferrisburgh
gave
their
Church
to
the
town,
and
discussions
are
beginning
about
possible
uses
for
the
building,
including
a
possible
daycare.
I
suspect
that
the
former
congregants
would
be
proud
to
drive
by
their
former
church
and
know
that
it
was
being
put
to
good
use.
P
P
Their
insularity
has
ensured
that
they
will
become
more
and
more
anachronistic
and
less
relevant
for
many
people,
it
would
have
been
more
transparent
if
the
church
had
simply
acknowledged
long
ago.
That
they
weren't
interested
in
creative
ideas
about
the
continued
life
of
this
space,
the
only
consideration
seems
to
be
the
bottom
line.
Q
Hello,
my
name
is
Selena
Barton
I
am
a
real
estate
broker
and
I
brought
a
qualified
buyer
to
the
property.
Before
the
property
went
under
contract.
We
had,
we
were
denied
access
and
the
opportunity
to
work
with
the
seller
and
I
am
here
today
to
speak
on
behalf
of
qualified
Community
oriented
buyers
willing
to
work
with
the
seller
and
the
city
on
adaptive.
Reuse
of
the
Burlington
Cathedral
I
have
reached
out,
and
my
colleagues
are
active
Catholics
and
we
I
come
in
kindness,
I
come
in
in
community
and
I.
Q
We
want
to
work
with
the
church.
We
really
want
to
find
another
use
for
the
building
and
I
have
been
trying
to,
through
the
appropriate
channels,
get
an
audience
to
be
able
to
deliver
this
incredibly
generous
offer,
and
this
community
of
buyers
that's
actually
building.
Now
that
wants
to
work
with
the
church.
If
we
could,
please
be
able
to
work
with
you
on
another
Vision,
not
a
demolition
which
and
I
I
I
want
to
come
in
kindness.
Q
I
want
to
come
in
in
Friendship,
but
I
have
to
say
they
also
come
with
friends
that
have
had
a
very
difficult
history
and
they
understand,
as
documented
in
this
bestseller
and
other
books,
that,
right
now,
the
Catholic
church
is
in
a
very
difficult
position,
and
one
of
the
best
things
we
feel
could
be
done
is
to
reach
out
and
work
with
the
community
on
building
a
wonderful
future
generation
solution.
So
I
I
come
as
a
real
estate
professional
I've,
seen
the
value
of
historic
properties.
A
A
F
F
But
I
can
tell
you
that
those
Gardens
in
Boston
were
over
a
century
old
when
I
enjoyed
them
for
picnics
I
don't
get
to
Burlington
very
often,
but
in
the
summer
months
it's
a
to
lift
my
heart.
I
go
and
watch
kids
on
the
fountain
in
the
city
park
behind
us,
the
city
hall
and
the
ice
cream,
vendors
and
the
parents,
and
the
little
kids
running
around
and
I
also
have
walked
some
of
the
other
streets
on
business.
F
That
I've
needed
to
do
and
Burlington
has
its
share
of
multi-story
ghettos
and,
to
the
extent,
the
the
vision
that
created
that
incredible
park
behind
city
hall
or
the
vision
that
created
the
Garden
or
the
green
I
lived
out
in
Brookline
homestead's
Century
old
park
that
I
had
to
walk
through
to
get
to
the
MTA
I.
Just
hope
that
all
of
you
I
know
all
the
different
parties
can
look
with
vision
and
generosity
at
what
you
can
leave
the
future
Generations,
it's
not
a
matter
of
of
money.
It's
not
a
matter
of
profit.
F
A
H
H
My
name
is
my
name:
is
Selena
Barton
as
well
I'm,
a
former
student
of
the
University
of
Vermont
I
was
there
for
a
year
in
the
fall
of
2020
before
I
transferred
to
St
Andrews
in
Scotland,
and
something
that
I've
noticed
and
something
that
I
feel
as
a
student
and
a
young
person
Burlington
is
a
beautiful
place.
It
has
an
incredible
campus,
something
that's
completely
unmatched
I
now
attend
a
school
that
is
very
focused
on
its
history
and
cares
about
that.
H
People
in
this
room
obviously
know
much
more
about
this
church,
but
I've
seen
it
and
I
remember
walking
by
and
it
is
a
beautiful
space
and
I
do
care
about
architecture,
but
I
think
that
right
now
more
than
ever,
it's
really
important
to
connect
and
find
a
place
to
do
that.
There's
a
lot
of
students
at
UVM
and
a
lot
of
people
here.
They
really
care
about.
Creating
that
kind
of
community
and
I.
Think
that
there's
so
much
more
that
we
can
do.
H
We
have
spaces
like
that
at
St
Andrews
that
are
really
wonderful,
because
it
is
very
much
like
a
college
town
type
of
feel
and
I.
Think
when
you
bring
the
students
we
have
so
many
colleges
in
this
area
coming
together
to
think
and
create
something
new
I'm.
Sorry
I
have
a
hard
time.
Speaking
in
front
of
people
is
really
beautiful
thing
and
I
think
post-pandemic.
H
That
is
really
important,
especially
for
Vermont,
for
Burlington
and
for
everybody
and
I
think
that
that'll
drive
more
people
together
and
I
think
that
that's
a
way
to
move
forward
and
I
think
we
should
look
into
other
options
before
we
just
and
bring
new
life
into
an
area
that
seems
kind
of
dark
over
there
at
the
moment,
and
that
would
be
really
positive
and
so
I
hope
that
people
can
consider
that
as
well.
Thank
you.
A
R
R
R
S
T
T
Just
a
couple
of
points
that
weren't
made
I
know
that
the
the
parish
or
the
diocese
reached
out
to
preservation
Burlington
with
individual
letters,
to
try
to
encourage
us
to
see
their
point
of
view,
and
we
immediately
reached
back
and
and
offered
to
have
sit
down
and
have
a
conversation.
And
there
was
no
return.
T
You
know
the
approval
for
this
to
be
demolished
without
knowing
what
might
happen
and
again
it's
been
mentioned,
a
block
or
so
away.
Is
the
pit
and
we've
seen
what
happens
there
and
demolished
and
then
sits
in
languishes,
so
I
think
short
of
a
lot
more
information
and
other
other
proof
that
this
project
meets
the
goals
of
the
loss
of
what
it
is
in
the
historic
building
in
the
historic
landscape
and
benefit
to
the
community.
T
U
Hi,
my
name
is
David
Mount
I
live
in
Ward,
six
I'm
on
the
Burlington
pension
board,
as
well
as
as
well
as
being
a
member
of
board.
Six
about
three
weeks
ago,
I
took
my
wife
to
to
Portsmouth
New,
Hampshire
and
I,
always
compared
Portsmouth
and
Burlington.
They
were
very
similar
cities
and
you
know
what
I
didn't
see
in
Portsmouth
I
didn't
see
any
graffiti
I
didn't
see
any
people
lingering
in
the
city,
and
why
is
that?
It's?
U
Because
we
have
allowed
that
to
happen
and
we've
allowed
it
to
happen
because
we
keep
repurposing
buildings.
We
repurpose
Memorial
Auditorium,
take
a
look
at
it.
It's
not
useful.
We
repurpose
the
old
YMCA
and
take
a
look
at
it.
It's
not
useful.
I
went
to
church
that
week,
I
came
back
and
I
saw
a
huge
graffiti
sign
of
Greek
graffiti
marker
on
the
side
of
the
cathedral.
The
cathedral
needs
to
go.
We
have.
U
We
have
built
fences
around
the
the
the
the
park
behind
the
cathedral
to
create
to
to
stop
drug
dealing
and
other
nefarious
activities.
If
the
cathedral
doesn't
come
down,
those
activities
are
going
to
continue
to
happen
in
in
the
park
behind
the
cathedral,
just
like
they
do
in
City
Hall
Park.
The
cathedral
has
to
go.
Thank
you.
S
S
My
name
is
Sharon
busher
and
I'm.
A
I'll
take
my
mask
down
good
evening.
My
name
is
Sharon
Butcher
and
I'm.
A
resident
in
Burlington
and
I
was
a
parishioner
at
the
Cathedral
I'm
here
tonight,
because
I
feel
strongly
that
this
building
should
not
be
demolished
as
a
parishioner
I
would
reference
the
this
statement
about
healing.
S
There
was
no
healing
when
the
old
Cathedral
burned
down
and
it
was
gone.
I,
don't
believe
for
me,
and
I
can
only
speak
for
myself
that
having
the
demolition
of
this
building
will
help
the
healing
process
as
a
Catholic
and
a
practicing
Catholic
I
know
about
Catholic
Charities
and
their
mission
of
caring
for
other
people
and
I
see
the
re-adaptive
use
of
this
building
being
Paramount.
In
that
mission
there
are
so
many
purposes
that
were
stated
earlier.
S
I
was
out
in
the
hallway
there
listening
about
what
could
be
done,
I'm
not
proposing
what
can
be
done.
I
just
don't
believe
that
we
should
destroy
this
building.
We
are
in
a
different
point.
In
life.
We
have
limited
resources.
We
have
a
structure
that
isn't
need
to
be
demolished
by
neglect.
It
is
a
sound
structure.
It
needs
to
be
retained
and
needs
to
be
used
for
another
purpose,
one
that
is
consistent
and
has
the
blessing
of
the
Catholic
church.
S
If
that
can
happen,
but
it
should
not
be
demolished
and
I
also
feel
very
strongly
about
the
pristine
plot
and
the
and
the
plantings
the
trees.
The
whole
section
is
a
place
where
people
can
find
peace
and
I
don't
see
that
that
would
disappear.
With
this
building
not
being
a
church,
it
could
be
used
for
the
the
owners
or
could
be
used
for
the
public.
I
want
to
just
cite
that
I,
don't
believe
in
Europe,
if
it
if
a
cathedral
is
no
longer
used,
that
they
tear
down
a
historic
Cathedral,
I'm
sure
they
repurpose
it.
S
V
S
E
Oh
evening,
my
name
is
Jack
Mentis
m-e-n-t-e-s
I
live
on
South
Willard
Street
I've
been
a
resident
in
Burlington
over
25
years
and
I'm
not
here
to
cite
like
articles
and
sections
of
this
ordinances,
and
you
know
the
number
before
it
or
letter
and
a
DOT
after
that's
all
important,
but
I'm
sure
you
people
looked
at
all
that
stuff
I'm
here
with
just
some
impassioned
thoughts.
I've
had
today
and
I
pardon
my
acid
reflux,
but
sometimes
my
voice.
Isn't
this
clear.
E
However,
these
are
impassioned
thoughts
that
I've
had
today
and
I
jotted
them
down.
So
I'll
start
with
this.
In
a
town
or
city,
there
is
a
fine
balance
between
Aesthetics
and
smart
development,
there's
also
a
fine
balance
between
needed
housing
and
the
placement
of
that
housing.
No
I
am
not
a
town
or
city
planner.
I
am
merely
an
old
man
that
has
always
appreciated
the
beauty
of
urban
scenery.
E
Wherever
I
traveled
take
Charleston
South
Carolina
we're
building
protection
ordinances
having
enough,
in
effect
there,
since
the
1940s
ask
people
that
have
been
there
why
they
enjoy
visiting
the
city
most
likely.
It
is
much
too
late
to
ask
those
city
planners
that
made
those
decisions
why
they
felt
the
aforementioned
balance
was
so
important.
E
This
former
church
is
not
the
proper
place
to
destroy
and
rebuild
any
fashion.
There
is
too
much
to
lose
and
much
more
to
gain
by
simply
repurposing
the
usage.
There
is
a
myriad
of
alternative
applications.
We've
heard
of
tonight
I'll
be
redundant,
probably
community
centers
social
treatment
facilities,
small
business,
startup
programs,
year-round
local
farmers,
markets,
I
hope.
My
menial
input
here
tonight
will
will
the
board
will
give
us
some
consideration.
Thank
you
and
I'm
thanking
you
in
advance
for
making
the
correct
choice
and
spare
the
destruction
of
a
tangible
piece
of
History.
Thank.
A
V
Will
just
say
that
in
November
for
my
70th
birthday,
my
partner
and
I
decided
to
go.
Someplace
we'd
never
been
before
New
Orleans
and
we
stayed
at
the
hotel,
Peter
and
Paul,
and
this
was
an
old
church
and
a
series
of
outbuildings
like
the
convent
and
the
school.
It
had
been
abandoned
for
16
years
and
sat
empty,
and
then
they
came
in
and
made
it
a
community
center
and
hotel.
It's
very
successful.
V
The
neighborhood
has
welcomed
it
because
it
preserved
a
huge
part
of
the
fabric
and
for
the
three
nights
that
we
were
there,
we
saw
a
psychedelic
fundraising
concert
a
funeral
and
a
wedding
where
everybody
was
dressed
in
black
and
so
without
talking
about
the
wonders
of
this
church
and
how
important
it
is
to
keep
how
that
Redevelopment
can
really
form
our
our
neighborhood
and
our
community
and
make
a
really
valuable
and
viable
space
is,
is
a
very
critical
thing.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
A
L
A
E
A
W
We
all
whether,
regardless
of
the
topic
City
Hall
Park,
the
Champlain,
Parkway
Civic
issues,
cultural
issues
tonight
is
no
different,
and,
and
so
that's
a
that's
a
really
good
thing,
and
but
I
think
that
we
need
to
temper
the
the
passion
with
an
appreciation
and
a
respect
for
rule
of
law.
I
was
really
happy
to
read
the
staff
report
that
goes
with
this.
W
That
goes
with
this
application
it
in
in
in
very
concisely.
It.
It
pointed
out
the
logic
of
the
recommendation
to
approve
the
application.
It
confirmed
that
the
use
is
a
place
of
worship,
that's
how
it
was
permitted.
There's
been
no
change
of
use
application
over
the
since
then,
and
it's
always
been
in
compliance.
So
when
the
closed
world,
the
closed
Universe
of
zoning
Administration,
it's
a
place
of
worship,
it
doesn't
matter
that
that
mass
hasn't
been
celebrated
there
in
several
years.
You
know
so
that's
the
first
point
that
was
made.
W
It
severely
limits
the
state
and
all
of
the
municipalities,
cities
and
towns
throughout
the
state,
from
interfering
for
getting
in
in
the
business
of
a
religious.
That's
that's
fundamental
and-
and
that
applies
to
every
zoning
District
in
every
town
in
our
state,
including
the
form-based
code
district
in
downtown
Burlington,
and
the
third
thing
that
that
the
the
staff
report
does
and
is.
Is
that
it?
It
says
that
because
of
4413
section
5.4.8,
which
is
the
section
that
deals
with
historic
preservation,
it
just
doesn't
apply
now
you
know,
given
what
we're
talking
about.
W
You
know,
I
get
it
this.
This
is
all
about
historic
preservation
and
and
but
the
clarity
that
you
have
around
4413
and
freedom
of
religion
that
it
really
kind
of
embodies,
is
in
stark
contrast
with
what
we
know
about
the
historic
preservation.
There's
no
doubt
that
Edward
larabee,
Barnes
and
Dan
Kiley,
you
know
their
reputations,
are
you
know
beyond
debate,
but
the
actual
property,
20
Pine,
Street
property
and
here's
what
we
know.
W
This
is
not
on
any
federal
or
state
registry,
and-
and
thirdly,
is
that
while
there
is
a
process
for
properties
that
are
less
than
50
years
old
that
that
it's
it's
really
to
me,
it's
unclear
whether
that
the
department
of
of
the
Interior
National
Park
Service,
which
has
jurisdiction
whether
or
not
they've
they've
done
all
everything
that
is
required
or
accepted
an
application.
As
far
as
I
know,
there
wasn't
even
an
application
submitted.
W
But
it's
it's
so
at
best
it's
it's
inconclusive
at
worst,
it's
huha,
but
guess
what?
Because
of
4413
it's
off
the
table?
It's
not
to
be
it's
not
to
be
discussed
now.
I
never
would
have
thought
I'd
put
this
all
together,
but
you
know,
over
the
last
few
weeks,
I've
been
thinking
a
lot
about
the
events
of
in
the
lessons
of
January
6th.
W
W
We
don't
have
to
comprehend
and
understand
the
church,
but
this
is
a
Sacred
Space
and
through
4413
the
state
has
indicated
they're
not
going
to
get
in
the
middle,
how
how
a
church
disposes
of
its
property
or
how
it
chooses
to
do
so.
This
is
this
is
the
church's
decision
in
the
church's
decision.
Only
we
may
not
agree
with
it.
W
X
X
But
that's
that's
one
of
the
ways.
I
think
the
the
idea
that
this
is
a
or
the
the
fact
that
this
is
a
cathedral
space
that
this
is
at
such
a
a
level
of
sacredness
for
the
parish
that
their
decision,
which
was
not
made
lightly
and
was
not
made
quickly,
was
that
the
best
thing
for
the
parish
community
and
not
everyone
in
the
Paris
Community
would
you
know,
is
going
to
agree
on
a
decision
forward.
X
But
the
parish
hasn't
perished,
made
the
decision
to
to
demolish
the
church
and
that
in
canon
law
is,
is
one
of
the
ways
to
it's,
the
ultimate
Way
of
of
making
sure
that
a
space
can't
be
reused
in
a
way
that
the
the
church
wouldn't
want
it
to
be
used
in,
and
especially
for
a
cathedral
that
is,
that
is
important
to
the
parish.
And
it's
the
parishes
decision
to
make
here.
So
there
may
have
been
a
ceremony
prior
to
this
to
to
seek
out
comfort.
N
Yeah
I
I
I,
just
we've,
heard
a
lot
of
testimony
in
letters
and
emails
and
everything
else
we
have
had
no
parishion
or
I,
don't
think,
come
forward
and
say
that
they
need
to
have
this
Church.
The
physical
building
removed
I'm
wondering
what
what
you
know.
What
prompts
people
say
that
that's
really
what's
necessary.
I
guess
I'd,
like
a
little
bit
more
understanding
of
that.
X
I
think
that
the
Monsignor
letters
in
the
record
any
else
also
spoke
on
December
20th.
To
that
and
it's
you
know
we
we
haven't
taken
this
as
a
as
a
you
know,
the
the
public
comments
as
a
you
know,
as
a
vote
that
to
have
parishioners.
You
know,
advocate
for
this
right.
Well,
no,
we
have
had
this
program.
There
have
been
public
comment
in
in
favor
of
this.
Certainly,
okay,.
O
X
X
G
O
X
X
X
A
The
functional
use
to
me
means
what's
going
to
happen
once
the
building
is
down
that
that
that's
what
that
sentence
seems
to
intend
to
use
a
functional
intended
means
forward-looking,
functional
means
how
and
functional
use
combined
as
Clause
seems
to
me
how
it's
going
to
be
used
on
day
two
after
the
building
is
gone
and
I.
Think
that's
what
Brooks's
question
was
was
what
is
What?
Is
there?
What
is
the
intended
functional
use
of
the
property
once
this
is
occurring.
X
X
X
Z
Not
sure
I
know
the
answer
to
that
I
think
I
have
a
very
wild
voice.
Can
you
hear
me,
therefore,
when
we
close
a
church,
there's
a
ceremony
to
close
it
down,
and
that
is
what
happened?
Services
still
continued
in
a
private
manner
by
my
predecessor.
I've
only
been
here
a
year
a
little
over
a
year,
but
up
to
that
time,
if
we're
doing
monthly
services
with
us
either.
Z
So
the
first
step
that
was
done
is
that
when
it
was
closed,
you
do
the
appropriate
ceremony,
that's
involved
and
you
bring
that
as
we
bring
the
Blessed
Sacrament
to
the
other
Cathedral
and
whether
I
will
not
hear
when
this
happened.
But
that's
what
we
would
do
so
when
we
say
de-consecrating
means
that
it
really
no
longer
exists
for
what
function
it
had,
but
we
do
say
Mass
on
the
outside.
When
I
was
here
before,
we
would
process
there
and
do
services
in
the
in
the
Grove.
We
are
Corpus
Christi.
Z
Z
Well,
only
something
that
was
constant,
I,
don't
know
about
other
buildings,
but
for
us
it's
a
church
that
is
consecrated,
I
I
was
thinking,
I'd
miss
something
and
the
consecration
takes
place
when
you,
where
do
we
smear
oil
on
the
wall
in
cathedrals
and
parishes
will
have
crosses
on
the
walls
which
have
had
oral
placed
upon
them.
So
that's
the
consecration
when
you
close
the
church
down
those
candles
that
usually
are
with
them
are
removed
because
it
is
no
longer
going
to
be
you.
Z
So
if
you
want
to
St
Joseph,
we
have
the
conjugatory
process,
I'm,
not
sure
what
most
churches
are
not
that
formally
consecrated
because
they're
old,
and
if,
if
you
want
the
history
to
consecrate
a
church,
you
have
to
have
paid
for
it
completely.
Most
churches
started
functioning
before
they
were
paid
for
they
had
debts
and
to
do
them,
but
the
cathedral
always
had
to
be
consecrated.
Z
Z
It
gets
consecrated
when
you're
holding
Mass,
so
there
are
different
elements
of
that.
The
first
time
you
say
a
mass
and
you
bless
the
Altar
and
so
forth.
You
are
consecrating
the
space
and
we
shouldn't
get
caught
in
the
weeds
here.
Every
church
is
a
consecrated
and
holy
space,
but
a
cathedral
has
a
different
dimension.
It's
not
just
an
ordinary
parish,
and
that
is
really
the
other
reason
to
reuse
it
is.
Z
G
W
Y
Z
X
G
Y
Was
it?
Was
it
the
intention,
I
I,
assume
then
of
the
church,
to
sell
or
of
the
the
organization
to
to
sell
the
building
at
that
at
that
at
that
time
to
to
another
party,
I
guess
I
guess
was
the
was:
was
there
consultation
with
the
with
any
intended
buyers
about
the
the
intended
future
use
of
the
space?
I
mean
I'm
I'm,
not.
X
N
I
I
I'm
gonna
ask
sort
of
Brooke's
question
in
a
way
things
may
be
outside
the
purview
of
where
we
end
up,
but
we
try
to
take
a
path
around
everything
to
make
sure
we
end
up
in
the
right
place.
So
the
idea
of
what
will
happen
to
this
property
once
the
building
is
torn
down
and
once
it's
gone
from
what
I'm
hearing
that's
of
no
concern
to
you,
the
applicant
at
this
time.
X
N
Z
W
Oh,
that's
the
back
to
44-13
and
The
Limited
list
of
uses,
I
I
know
it's
just
Landscaping
is
one
of
the
things
that
a
municipality
can
regulate
under
44-13,
so
I
mean
it's
I
mean,
let's
not
kid
ourselves.
The
only
reason
it's
now
the
trees
are
staying
is
because
to
satisfy
that.
But
the
trees
are
are
a
historic
preservation
manifestation
just
like
the
building.
So
it's
like
what
are
we
doing
here.
N
N
The
way
it
is
in
the
zoning
zoning
ordinance
is
to
address
the
loss
of
a
significant
piece
of
the
community
with
something
that's
coming
next
to
understand
that
there's
some
value
going
to
be
retained
to
the
community
once
there's
a
loss
and
I
understand
the
applicant
can
say:
that's
not
your
concern
at
this
point.
The
concern
is
having
the
church
not
be
used
for
wrong
purposes,
but
the
community
still
asks
gee.
What
is
going
to
happen
next
and
that's
why
I
asked
the
question?
No.
W
And
that's
a
that's
a
brad,
that's
that's
a
reasonable
question.
You
know
I
think
one
thought
that
I've
had
is
that
not
too
long
ago,
2018
2019,
the
City
of
Burlington,
went
through
a
planning
process
that
resulted
in
the
form-based
code
and
and
the
community
acted
it
wasn't.
You
know
this,
this
idea
didn't,
but
what
what
the
community
was
saying
is
that
we
want
to
have
a
forward-looking
code
that
will,
you
know,
basically
be
able
to
provide
a
robust
level
of
development
in
a
downtown.