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From YouTube: MLK Jr. Birthday Celebrations: Civil Rights Panel by the Greater Burlington Multicultural Center
Description
From the organizers:
Join ECHO in hosting their 11th annual Martin Luther King Jr. Day Celebration.
Panelists:
Robert Appel, Former Director of the Vermont Human Rights Commission
Kim Carson, City of Burlington, Director of Racial Equity
Emiliano Void, Black Experience Organizer
Julia Torti, U.S. Attorney, Civil Rights Office
Pastor Arnold Thomas
James Duff Lyall, Vermont American Civil Liberties Union
For more information: www.echovermont.org/events-programs/mlk-day/
1/16/2023
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This video belongs to http://www.cctv.org and published with permission under Creative Commons License CCTV Center for Media & Democracy Programming is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.
A
So
good
afternoon,
everyone
we're
still
waiting
for
one
panelist,
but
in
the
interest
of
time
we're
gonna
start
so
remembering
Dr
King's
work
in
Legacy
this
weekend.
We
as
vermonters
should
redouble
our
Collective
efforts
to
ensure
that
a
Vermont
become
increasingly
diverse.
The
promise
of
equal
treatment
of
all
persons
be
honored.
A
B
B
B
The
other
thing
I
wanted
to
say
is
that
it
was
40
years
ago
that
Congress
passed
a
law
that
made
today
a
national
holiday.
It
wasn't
celebrated
until
1986,
but
for
those
of
us
who
are
old
enough
to
remember
that
was
quite
a
long,
hard
push
led
by
Stevie
Wonder
of
all
people.
He
really
went
all
out
to
get
this
holiday
done
and
then
I
compared
that
with
Juneteenth.
That
was
last
year,
national
holidays.
So
we've
come
some.
B
B
Ironically,
my
friend
James
Duff
Lyle,
who
was
the
executive
director
of
the
Vermont
chapter
of
the
American
civil
liberties,
Union
Duff,
will
tell
you
about
his
organization's
work
in
this
regard,
as
well
as
a
deep
commitment
to
what
brings
us
all
here
today,
I'd
like
to
welcome
Ken
Carson,
who
I've
not
met
until
today,
who
is
now
the
director
of
racial
equity
and
inclusion
and
belonging,
which
is
a
department
of
city
government.
It
has
its
ups
and
downs
over
the
last
couple
years.
B
C
What
I
want
to
talk
about
today
are
the
limits
of
civil
rights
law
and
and
what
we
lose
when
we
see
law
as
the
only
remedy
for
for
discrimination,
racism
and
civil
rights
violations,
so
I'm,
a
lawyer
I,
you
know,
have
gone
through
most
of
my
life.
Thinking
that
the
law
was
the
was
the
answer
and
most
of
my
professional
career
I
worked
for
the
U.S
attorney's
office
and
I
coordinate
our
civil
rights
program,
so
we
enforce
federal
civil
rights
laws
in
Vermont
before
that.
C
I
worked
at
a
civil
rights
firm
in
New
York,
working
with
wrongfully
convicted
individuals.
So
my
job
these
days
is
a
lot
of
hearing
complaints
for
the
public
and
deciding
what
box
they
fit
in.
So
is
this
a
hate
crime?
Is
this
a
civil
rights
violation
or
does
this
fall
outside
of
the
scope?
Does
fall
into
a
category
called
we
can't
help.
C
You
I
also
do
a
lot
of
Outreach
and
education
about
civil
rights,
about
hate
crimes
and
in
doing
that,
one
of
the
kind
of
teaching
tools
I
made
up
was
this
pyramid,
and
you
know
at
the
top,
are
hate
crimes
because
they're
really
severe,
but
there
aren't
very
many
of
them
and
then
in
the
middle
is
civil
rights
violations
and
then
at
the
bottom.
Is
that
dreaded
category
again
of
the
law
can't
help
you,
and
you
know
you
could
see
the
shape
of
the
pyramid,
that's
the
biggest
category.
C
That
is
what
most
of
most
of
the
bad
stuff
that
happens
to
people
most
of
the
racism
discrimination
bias
incidents
as
we
call
them.
That's
where
most
of
the
action
is,
and
you
know
in
in
creating
this
pyramid.
We
talk
about
responses
right.
The
response
to
hate
crimes
is
a
prosecution.
The
response
to
a
civil
rights
violation
is
a
lawsuit.
The
response
to
the
it
doesn't
violate
the
law,
but
it
still
really
messed
up.
Category
is
kind
of
an
open
question.
C
It's
really
unsatisfying
I've
not
had
a
single
person
be
satisfied
by
by
that
response
by
that
answer
that
I've,
given
them-
and
you
know
I,
you
could
have
a
bunch
of
different
reactions
to
that
right.
One
reaction,
I've
heard
boring
of
the
Human
Rights
Commission
say
well.
That
means
we
need
more
advocacy
right.
We
need
to
bring
more
things
into
the
scope
of
what's
illegal
and
you
know
I
think
she's,
probably
right
in
a
lot
of
ways,
but
I
think
there's
another
way
to
look
at
it
too,
which
is
we
need
to.
C
We
could
look
at
that
bottom
category
and
have
more
robust,
Community
responses
so
that
when
you
tell
somebody
the
answer
is
a
community
response
that
doesn't
sound
like
nothing
but
I
actually
think
the
more
powerful
thing
would
be
a
change
of
mindset
when
you
tell
someone
that
what
happened
to
them
does
not
break
the
law.
Often
what
they
hear
is
nothing
happened
to
you.
We
see
law
as
the
as
having
a
monopoly
on
you
know,
being
the
Arbiter
of
what
is
right
and
wrong.
What
is
good
and
bad?
C
What
is
true,
and
not
often,
we
think
if
you
don't
have
a
true
civil
rights
violation,
a
true
hate
crime.
Nothing
happened
to
you,
but
people
aren't
stupid
and
they
know
when
they've
been
discriminated
against.
They
know
when
they've
been
the
victim
of
hate
and
bias
and
I
think
the
less
that
we
see
laws
and
civil
rights
laws.
C
The
laws
that
I've
been
dedicating
my
own
career
to
enforcing
I
think
the
less
we
see
them
as
the
only
important
thing,
the
more
that
we're
going
to
be
able
to
reimagine
the
ways
that
we
can
respond
to
bias
and
hate
and
hopefully
have
more
more
satisfying
responses
for
people
whose
civil
rights
violations
don't
actually
violate.
Any
civil
rights
law.
B
B
You
think
about
the
letter
hurt
from
the
Birmingham
Jail.
He
definitely
saw
the
legal
system
as
a
means
to
prompt
change,
given
the
state
of
our
Judiciary
today,
particularly
in
state
courts,
it
becomes
more
and
more
challenging,
but
Jules
is
talking
about
in
terms
of
criminal
prosecution.
You
have
to
prove
each
and
every
element
of
the
crime
Beyond
A
Reasonable
Doubt
and
which
is
a
heavy
burden.
And
then,
when
you
get
to
hate
crime,
you
got
to
show
that
the
act.
B
The
unlawfulness
was
motivated,
basically
in
a
whole
unbias
and
that's
a
very
difficult
task,
because
you
have
to
get
inside
the
mind
of
the
perpetrator.
So,
in
my
view,
and
in
my
experience,
coordination
between
Community
activism
and
litigation
is
key
to
promoting
change
and
with
that
I'm
going
to
Pat.
Well,
let
me
let
me
introduce
Reverend
Arnold
Thomas
welcome
to
the
panel.
It's.
B
E
It's
nice
to
meet
you
all.
My
name
is
Emiliano
Boyd
and
I'm
I'm,
an
import
to
Vermont
I.
Think
it's
really
interesting
for
me
to
be
sitting
up
here
today.
I
think
this
is
a
reflection
of
over
here
humor
in
the
room.
You
need
somebody
to
make.
Somebody
else.
Look
good
and
I.
Think
my
job
on
the
panel
is
to
make
everybody
else
here.
Look
considered
really
better
I,
don't
consider
myself
an
activist
by
any
means.
E
Certainly
it's
an
honor
and
a
privilege
to
be
sitting
up
here
and
having
the
opportunity
to
have
a
conversation
with
you
folks,
but
I.
Don't
consider
myself,
like
I,
said
an
activist
I'm,
a
pragmatist
I
try
to
solve
real
issues
with
with
real
solutions
and
the
entire
guiding
principle
of
our
organization.
I
run
a
racial
Equity,
consulting
firm
right
here
in
Burlington
in
the
entire
premise
of
what
it
is
that
we
try
to
do.
E
Is
we
try
to
build
systemic
solutions
to
correspond
and
address
to
systemic
issues
and
most
notably,
the
one
that
we
Chase
certainly
is
systemic
inequities
but
systemic
racism
and
most
notably
anti-black
racism.
So
in
the
work
that
we
look
to
do
on
our
side
of
the
fence,
that's
really
what
it
is
that
we
bring
to
the
table
in
a
whole
different
arm
of
of
the
work
that
we
have
been
fortunate
enough
to
do
here
has
been
Community,
organizing
as
well
and
and
I
very
selfishly.
E
Like
the
black
experience
where
last
year,
we
were
super
fortunate
to
have
the
city
really
open
up
its
arms
and
and
welcome
us
into
the
Juneteenth
celebration,
it
was
unbelievable
for
us
to
be
a
part
of
that
and
we're
thrilled
thrilled
thrilled
to
be
able
to
bring
it
back
and
hopefully
on
an
annual
basis.
Here
into
the
month
of
February.
E
You
want
to
talk
about
social
activists
and
real
people.
Doing
real
work.
Dr
King
is
in
that
conversation,
I.
Consider
Dr
Davis
in
that
conversation
as
well,
and
so
we're
thrilled
to
be
able
to
create
an
opportunity
right
here
where
we
live,
to
bring
world-class
talent
to
Burlington
Vermont.
But
that's
not
the
only
Talent,
that's
here
and
that's
available,
and
so
we're
really
really
intentional
about
creating
an
opportunity
for
us
to
shine
a
light
on
black
and
brown
voices
here.
E
So
again,
I'm
not
really
sure
what
we
were
thinking,
Dr
Brown
and
putting
me
up
here,
but
I'm
thrilled
and
greatly
honored
to
be
sitting
shoulder
to
shoulder
with
folks
that
do
unbelievable
work
in
the
community
every
day
and
and
I
consider
the
work
we
do
our
selfish
reflection
of
of
how
it
is
that
we
have
come
to
love
and
appreciate
this
place
and
try
to
share
that
with
more
folks
that
maybe
are
less
fortunate
than
what
I've
been.
So.
Thank
you.
Everyone.
B
I
I
was
also
remiss
in
that
thanking
Patrick
Brown
for
organizing
this
weekend,
in
conjunction
with
folks
from
the
city
and
in
terms
of
bringing
world-class
leaders
speak
to
this
community.
Patrick
is
incredible
in
bringing
big
names
who
have
big
messages
to
people
here.
I'm
sorry,
I
didn't
get
to
yesterday's
event,
but
others
didn't
I'm
sure
it
was
great.
So
with
that
Kim
your
turn
thank.
F
You
and
thank
you
for
welcoming
me
I've,
been
getting
welcomed,
I
think
for
the
last
month,
so
I
really
appreciate
it
from
the
community.
My
name
is
Kim
Carson
and
I
actually
have
been
here
director
of
race,
Equity
inclusion
for
the
City
of
Burlington,
a
new
transplant
to
Burlington
from
Iowa,
and
so
I've
been
here
about
a
month.
So
most
of
my
time
here
has
been
spent
doing
a
lot
of
reflecting.
F
G
F
It
was
my
goal
to
be
neutral,
and
so
one
of
the
things
I
don't
reflect
on
with
Emiliano
was
talking
about,
was
actually
moving
away
from
just
the
noun
of
civil
rights,
the
noun
of
racism,
the
noun
of
these
things
and
naming
those
and
really
shifting
to
the
verb.
The
action
behind
it
not
just
talking
about
it,
but
really
utilizing
my
office
in
an
effort
to
actually
mobilize
the
community's
voices
as
I
move
into
becoming
the
director
of
this
amazing
department
and
City.
F
So
I
just
have
to
look
left
right
behind
me
and
in
front
of
me
to
to
ask
those
questions
and
so
I
think
I'm,
uniquely
privileged
to
live
a
life
that
I
did
have
those
people
surrounding
me
and
so
every
day
what
I
actually
reflect
on.
Most
importantly
is
that
my
experience
is
not
much
different
than
theirs
and
what
my
goal
is
to
make
my
experience
different
for
my
children
and
the
children
that
I
see
around
me
in
this
community.
F
So
action
is
very
important
to
me
and
then
lastly,
I
see
my
job,
and
my
role
at
the
City
of
Burlington
is
to
really
focus
on
policy
procedure,
but,
most
importantly
practice,
I
would
say
that
in
my
research
over
time,
what
I
noticed
as
I
was
studying
the
legislative
history
of
civil
rights
is
I,
did
my
job
at
the
judicial
branches,
from
the
1700s
to
civil
rights
and
on
the
things
that
we've
been
fighting
for,
have
been
relatively
the
same.
So
if
you
spend
some
time
reading
those
legislation,
it
hasn't
changed
much.
F
F
B
B
H
Thanks
Robert
hi
everyone,
I'm
James,
Lyle
I'm,
the
executive
director
at
the
ACLU
of
Vermont
for
folks
who
aren't
familiar
with
our
organization,
the
ACLU
defends
and
advances
civil
rights,
civil
liberties,
constitutional
rights
of
everyone
in
Vermont
and
with
particular
attention
to
people
who
have
been
denied
the
full
protections
of
those
rights.
Historically,
we
do
that
through
litigation
policy,
advocacy,
public
education,
Community
engagement,
and
we
do
that
in
Montpelier
is
where
we're
based
in
Vermont,
so
reflecting
on
this
day.
H
A
few
thoughts
and
one
I
I,
think
it's
important
just
to
remember
and
reflecting
on
the
day
and
the
man
behind
it
always
is
that
Dr
King
was
had
a
deep
and
sustained
critique
of
American
society
that
goes
deeper
and
broader
than
I.
Think
the
sanitized
version
of
the
man
that
we're
often
given
on
this
day
and
I
think
it's
always
worth
remembering.
H
And
if
you
again,
if
you
look
to
his
words
and
his
actions,
if
you
read
the
history,
for
example,
Taylor
branches
parting,
the
waters
Trilogy,
it's
important
to
remember
that
Dr
King
was
an
activist.
He
was
a
leader
and
in
many
ways
he
was
a
radical
reformer
and
so
thinking
about
what
he
would
make
of
the
world
today
or
this
state
today
or
this
city
today.
H
I
think
a
lot
of
the
critiques
and
concerns
that
he
raised
in
his
own
time
would
still
strike
him
to
to
this
day,
not
to
say
that
progress
has
not
been
made.
But
when
you
look
to
measures
of
racial
Injustice
in
housing,
Health,
Care,
education,
criminal
justice,
essentially
any
measure
of
societal
well-being
that
you
want.
H
There
are
still
major
disparities
in
this
community
in
this
state
and
in
this
country,
economic
Injustice
is
another
area
where
I
think
he
would
recognize
that
the
community
that
our
communities
are
really
struggling
right
now,
when
you
look
to
housing
and
security,
a
mental
health
care
crisis,
substance,
abuse,
disorder
and
record
opioid
deaths,
all
things
that
have
been
exacerbated
by
a
global
pandemic.
Our
communities
are
really
struggling
and
I
think
Dr
King
would
not
lose
sight
of.
That
would
not
be
unaware
of
that.
H
H
Blues
is
one
example,
the
great
Nina
Simone
saying
about
this,
and
there
was
a
backlash
to
the
progress
that
this
people
in
the
Civil
Rights
Movement
made
that
Dr
King
made
in
his
lifetime
on
voting
rights
on
racial
Justice
on
economic
Justice,
and
that
backlash
continues
to
this
day
and
we
see
it
in
the
conservative
rollback
of
civil
rights
protections.
We
see
it
in
attacks
at
the
state
level.
At
the
federal
level,
we
see
it
in
Supreme,
Court
decisions,
rolling
back
voting
rights
and
soon
to
roll
back
affirmative
action
protections
and
so
forth.
H
More
immediately,
I've
been
thinking
about
the
concept
of
backlash
in
and
reflecting
on
the
black
lives
matter,
movement
and
sort
of
the
last
two
to
three
years
in
this
country.
Thinking
about
civil
rights
and
racial
Justice
and
how
much
progress
we
were
making
and
are
making
to
advance
racial
Justice
in
this
community
in
the
state
and
in
this
country
and
I.
Think
a
lot
of
that
really
accelerated
in
part
due
to
the
actions
and
the
work
of
people
in
this
community
in
in
supporting
the
black
lives
matter
of
movement
and
I.
H
Think,
while
that
work
continues
and
that
progress
continues,
there
is
also
a
backlash
to
it
that
we
are
seeing
that
I
am
seeing
in
my
work
at
the
ACLU
in
our
work
to
advance,
for
example,
criminal
justice
reforms,
police
accountability,
reforms
to
advance
racial
economic
Justice
in
our
communities.
We
are
seeing
an
Institutional
backlash
to
the
progress
that
has
been
made
and
to
the
demands
for
increased
accountability
and
oversight
in
law
enforcement
and
increased
attention
to
the
need
to
invest
in
our
communities
over
policing
in
prisons.
H
And
that
backlash
is,
you
can
see
it
in
the
state
house
where
we're
experiencing
we're
witnessing
proposals
to
expand
criminal
penalties
and
periods
of
incarceration.
We
are
seeing
it
in
proposals
to
expand
the
state
prison
population
at
a
cost
of
nine
hundred
thousand
dollars
a
bed.
There
are
people
working
right
now
on
proposals
to
double
the
size
and
capacity
of
the
women's
prison
in
this
state.
H
At
a
time
when
we're
talking
about
cutting
housing,
cutting
mental
health
care
services
or
at
best
level,
funding
them
and
not
investing
in
the
root
causes
of
the
challenges
facing
our
communities
today.
So
I
think
about
what
would
Dr
King.
Think
of
that
and
which
side
of
that
that
debate
would
he
be
on
and
I
think
he
would
be
on
the
side
of
the
vast
majority
of
vermonters,
who
we
have
seen
over
the
past.
H
Five
years
later,
we've
seen
Vermont's
prison
population
sink
to
40
percent
below
its
peak
two
decades
ago,
we
produced
the
prison
population
by
more
than
20
percent
in
the
last
three
to
four
years
alone,
through
smarter
policy
reforms
by
using
data
and
evidence
and
thinking
about
what
works
and
we've
seen
that
happen.
At
the
local
level
we've
seen
people
like
in
10,
County,
State's,
Attorney,
Sarah,
George,
Advance,
those
policies,
we've
seen
legislators,
increasingly
Embrace
those
policy
reforms,
and
we
have
seen
community
members
across
the
state
overwhelmingly
support
those
kinds
of
smart
Justice
reforms.
H
So
we
are
making
progress
and
I
think.
The
challenge
right
now
is
to
be
aware
that
there
is
a
backlash
to
that
progress
and
there
are
Defenders
of
the
status
quo,
who
are
deeply
invested
in
seeing
those
efforts
fail,
and
it
is
really
important.
The
last
thing
I'll
say
is
for
people
who
do
care
about
these
issues
and
do
want
to
see
their
values
enacted
in
these
State
policies
to
engage
in
these
issues.
B
Thank
you,
Jeff,
just
to
put
a
little
perspective
longer
range.
When
I
started
in
legal
work
in
1977
as
an
investigator
and
a
public
defender's
office,
there
are
400
secure
beds
and
Vermont
prisons.
There
were
10
beds
for
women
down
at
the
regional
10
beds.
It
got
a
size,
220.
I,
don't
know
what
the
number
is
now
160
140
something
like
that.
But
you
know
we
we've
certainly
headed
in
the
wrong
direction.
B
Of
course,
there's
been
efforts
to
revitalize
Poor,
People's,
March,
I.
Think
there's
another
effort.
Coming
up
again
this
year,
maybe
Reverend
Thomas
can
speak
a
little
bit
about
that.
If
he's
aware
of
of
those
activities,
the
other
thing
I
would
say,
is
Dr
King
became
more
and
more
dangerous
to
The
Establishment,
as
he
made
the
connections
between
what
he
called
the
three-headed
monster,
racism,
consumerism
and
militarism
and
think
about
where
we
are
today.
D
One
of
the
things
that
consume
my
attention
as
a
vermonter
is
a
public
religion.
Research
Institute
survey,
which
about
a
decade
ago,
revealed
that
75
percent
of
white
Americans
have
no
meaningful
relations
with
people
of
color
75
percent,
and
that
percentage
is
only
slightly
changed
in
the
last
decade.
D
D
While
Vermont
has
slightly
increased
over
the
past
10
years
in
population,
from
roughly
about
625
000
people
to
647,
000
people,
the
white
population,
the
white
demographics
of
this
state
has
decreased,
while
the
people
of
color
population,
including
black
Hispanics
biracial
communities,
have
increased
still.
That
number
is
hampered
by
the
fact
that
the
labor
force
in
this
in
this
state
is
really
crippled.
D
The
cost
of
housing.
The
cost
of
living
in
Vermont
is
so
is
so
enormous
that
it
it
it
it
disables
the
the
chances
of
of
building
a
strong
labor
force
in
this
state.
So
we
have.
We
have
an
enormous
amount
of
of
things
to
do.
If
we're
going
to
overcome
those
many
obstacles,
one
of
the
things
I
I
did
when
I
returned
to
Vermont,
was
establish
a
monthly
broadcast
right
now
as
a
webinar.
D
Robert
Robert,
Appel
and
I
are
part
of
an
effort
to
to
address
the
the
the
the
the
problems
of
Housing
and
land
that
has
been
denied
poor
people
and
people
of
color
in
this
state,
and
so
there's
an
enormous
heal
that
we
all
need
to
climb
in
addressing
some
of
the
problems
that
affect
us
and
again,
the
more
people
who
are
involved
and
who
are
aware
of
the
problems,
especially
people
of
color,
the
more
involved
you
are,
the
more
people
will
listen
and,
and
we
will
continue
to
fight
the
good
fight.
Thank
you.
B
G
A
B
I
You
it
is
so
refreshing
to
see
everyone
here.
In
this
day,
I
lived
in
Warren
for
12
years,
I
lived
in
Burlington
for
two
years:
I
just
moved
back
a
week
and
a
half
ago,
I
worked
in
software
here
and
I
sued,
my
company
for
discrimination
and
didn't
win,
but
I
did
get
my
severance
because
of
that
experience,
I
wanted
to
get
rid
of
co-workers,
so
I
became
a
truck
driver.
I
I
moved
back
after
six
years
of
being
on
the
road,
because
Vermont's
Department
of
Labor
said
you
got
to
get
experience
so
leave
and
come
back.
So
after
six
hundred
thousand
miles
safely
delivering
consumer
goods
all
over
the
country,
I'm
back
and
I
have
a
home
daily
position
that
I
start
Tuesday
and
it's
just
great
to
see
you
all
and
I'm,
really
really
encouraged
by
what
I
see
and
the
amount
of
people
of
color
that
have
moved
into
the
state
since
I've
been
gone.
Thank
you.
So
thank
you.
Yes,.
I
Albans
to
White
River
Junction
but,
like
I,
said
I
start
Tuesday,
so
I'm
not
really
sure,
but
also
in
that
process
of
absorbing
Vermont
I'm.
A
poet
and
I
wrote
two
spoken
word:
two
poetry
books
based
off
of
what
I
was
feeling
and
also
I'm
a
spoken
word
artist
and
so
I'm.
Just
coming
back
to
be
a
part
of
the
community.
I
I
want
community,
and
this
is
the
community
that
I
want
to
be
a
part.
G
J
J
My
question
is
from
your
perspective:
what
role
do
you
see
as
both
the
responsibility,
an
action
that
the
faith
community
in
Vermont
in
particular
can
be
mobilized
to
make
a
difference
in
each
one
of
the
categories
that
we've
spoken
to
context?
It
was
New
England,
it
was
the
Congregational
Church
that
meant
forth,
went
forth
to
help
establishing
colleges
and
universities,
especially
for
people
of
African-American
descent,
blacks,
Indians
as
well
the.
J
Secondly,
there
is
a
unsaid,
30,
plus
percent
of
vermonters,
who
push
back
against
the
very
notion
of
the
faith
community
being
involved
hypocritically
if
I
can
say
that
we
find
that
politicians
who
make
the
laws
and
the
policies
that
affect
all
of
us
swear
in
by
putting
their
name
of
their
hands
on
the
Bible.
Some
of
us
may
remember,
even
the
45th
president
had
this
Bible
upside
down,
but
he
had
the
Bible
so
I'm
curious
again.
What
do
you
see?
J
Because
if
you
really
look
at
it,
many
of
the
folk
in
Montpelier
and
other
places
sit
in
the
pews
of
churches
and
they
feel
real
good
for
that
one
hour
and
then
the
on
Monday
morning.
They
start
their
Dance
with
the
Devil,
so
I'm
curious
to
know.
What
do
you
see?
What
would
be
your
charge
to
the
body
of
600
000
Plus?
D
I
think
that
I
I
acknowledge
that
that
Vermont
is
considered
the
least
considered
the
least
has
at
least
number
of
people
involved
in
institutional
religion.
I
think
my
microphone
is
not
is
probably
too
loud.
At
least
number
of
people
involved
in
institutional
religion,
but
I
think
that's
partly
because
that
the
church,
the
churches
and
Faith
communities
as
a
whole
have
projected
a
two-faced
kind
of
attitude
towards
towards
its
relation
to
the
rest
of
the
world.
D
D
This
was
not
just
held
by
the
Episcopal
Bishop
of
the
state,
but
by
Leading
congregational
leaders
and
other
religious
leaders.
At
the
time
when
Frederick
Douglass
came
to
Vermont
to
speak
in
behalf
of
abolition
of
slavery,
he
was
met
by
hostile
crowds
in
every
Community.
He
he
he
he
addressed
in
Vermont
and
so
Vermont
may
have
came
into
the
may,
have
come
into
the
state
as
a
so-called
free
free
state,
but
in
actuality
the
attitudes
of
the
people
were
such
were,
even
though
they
may
have
verbally
opposed
slavery.
D
They
also
verbally
and
outspokenly
opposed
equality
between
blacks
and
and
whites,
and
so
that
history,
and
that
Legacy
continues
to
influence
and
I
think
the
attitude
not
only
of
this
country
but
of
all
also
in
many
ways
the
state.
We
see
a
rising,
a
rising
awareness
of
of
white
hostility
towards
black
people
in
this
state
in
which
we
have
to
be.
We
have
to
acknowledge
and
as
a
church
and
as
Faith
communities,
we
have
to
rise
up
against
and
so
that
that
is
to
continuing.
E
There's
a
entire
part
of
of
the
experience
that
I've
lived
in
Burlington
and
in
Vermont
as
a
whole
where
words
considerably
outpace
action.
I
think
the
problem
is
not
limited
to
institutions
of
faith.
I
think
it
happens
everywhere.
I
run
into
Community
leaders
that
speak
about
being
a
part
of
the
change
and
allyship
as
an
action,
and
it
is
only
true
in
words
in
certain
settings
in
certain
certain
circumstances,
I
think.
Certainly
the
institutions
of
Faith
have
responsibility.
I
think
our
educational
institutions
also
bear
that
responsibility.
E
I
think,
there's
a
need
for
a
social
contract
that
is
reflective
of
greater
than
you
know,
consideration
towards
the
public
and
really
our
communities
than
just
a
financial
transaction
in
those
spaces.
I
think,
in
order
to
be
honest
about
fighting
it,
an
issue
that
is
at
this
size
and
scale
I
think
we
need
multiple
institutions
across
the
board,
including
faith-based
institutions,
just
to
talk,
maybe
less
about
being
a
part
of
the
solution
and
start
doing
more
actively
and
and
I.
E
Think
one
of
the
things
that's
often
lost
is
when
we
talk
and
in
particular
I
think
of
days
like
today.
We
we
have
these
Heroes,
these
social
justice
and
social
activists
Heroes
these
people,
that,
in
my
opinion,
it
would
be
hard
to
measure
ourselves
individually
against
on
any
day
on
our
best
days,
and
certainly
our
worst.
It
does
not
take
Heroes
for
change.
It
takes
regular
people,
doing
small,
incremental
different
actions
on
a
habitual
basis
and
I.
E
Think
fundamentally,
there
is
this
always
looking
for
this
solution
to
come
from
a
greater
sum
of
our
actions
but
individually.
This
is
the
kind
of
space
and
state
that,
if
we
all
turn
it
up
a
little
less
on
the
vocal
side
and
more
on
the
acting
side,
big
change
can
happen
here
in
small
windows.
So
certainly
when
I
come
back
to
all
of
these
conversations
about,
where
does
responsibility
lie?
And
what
part
do
we
play?
F
I
was
going
to
respond
just
about
institutions
as
a
whole,
very
much
echoing
Emiliano
I,
whether
it's
faith-based
any
institution
has
never
really
served
black
people.
Well,
so
I
always
lean
into
the
harm,
if
we're
just
landing
on
the
faith-based
community
that
they've
done
to
black
people
as
a
whole.
Historically,
so
I
don't
always
lean
into
that,
but
I
do
think
they
do
have
to
do
some
work.
I
think
also.
The
bigger
picture,
especially
in
Vermont,
is
really
Reckoning.
F
So
I
think
as
we
look
at
agrarian
society
and
what
that
means
and
how
it
came
to
be
and
the
structure
of
what
that
means
in
a
community
and
a
space
that
really
Honors
that
here
I
hear
a
lot
Farm
to
Table,
and
things
of
that
nature
is
understanding.
The
history
behind
that
from
an
Institutional
lens
that
it
was
not
about
the
humanization
at
any
point
of
the
black
body.
F
I
just
came
from
a
community
where
we
are
actively
making
sure
that
those
stories
are
not
told,
and
it
becomes
statutory
illegally
illegal
to
to
talk
about
things
from
the
lens
of
the
people
that
suffered
the
most,
and
so.
If
I
can
lean
in
with
one
thing
is
even
as
we
we
bring
these
institutions
in,
we
need
to
bring
the
voices
that
understand
the
harm
at
a
level
that
you
couldn't
imagine
to
start
to
translate
and
also
prescribe
the
change
that
we
seek
to
find.
L
K
No
kidding
my
name
is
Sandy
Barrett
I'm,
an
attorney
in
this
community
I've
been
there.
I
have
been
an
attorney
here
for
a
very
long
time
and
I
want
to
draw
your
attention
to
another
problem
that
I
see
every
day.
That
is
never
almost
never
addressed
by
anyone
in
this
community.
Black
or
white
I
have
the
great
privilege
of
working
my
offices
within
the
association
of
Africans
living
in
Vermont,
where
the
director
of
that
program,
Jacob,
bow
gray,
is
here
I
believe
on.
K
He
is
a
man
from
Burkina
Faso
and
he
had
given
me
the
great
honor
of
allowing
me
to
have
an
office
in
that
space.
I'm.
Also
a
family
lawyer.
So
I
would
like
to
address
your
attention
to
the
most
real
problem
that
I
see
while
I
practice
the
law
there
and
represent
people
who
come
to
aalv.
To
talk
to
me
and
to
talk
to
me
about
their
problems.
K
The
greatest
problem
I
see
is
that
women,
and
particularly
mothers
and
single
family
Fathers
as
well,
are
totally
neglected
in
this
community
and
have
been
so
for
many
many
years,
beginning
with
welfare
reform.
Legislation
back
in
I.
Don't
even
know
under
the
Clinton
Administration,
so
I
guess
it
was
in
the
90s.
Remember
that
welfare
payments
were
cut
off
to
single
poor
parents.
I
was
in
the
legislature
when
that
happened.
I
fought
like
crazy
against
it,
because
I
recognized
that
single
parents
and
mothers
in
particular
operate
to
reproduce
the
Next
Generation.
K
That
is
the
most
important
work.
Perhaps
that
is
done
in
this
whole
society
and
they
have
done
that
for
years
without
any
kind
of
income
or
any
kind
of
a
of
a
protected
income.
Once
welfare
was
cut
and
that
was
minimal
to
begin
with,
single
parents
have
had
no
real
financial
assistance
from
our
state,
and
that
includes
Vermont,
as
well
as
the
United
States.
Every
day.
K
I
must
say:
I,
thank
you
all
for
being
here
and
addressing
the
other
problems
that
black
people
feel
and
that
white
poor
people
also
feel.
However,
I
would
really
implore
you
to
remember.
There
are
many
single
black
Brown
mothers
who
really
have
no
help
financially
emotionally
or
in
any
other
way,
and
remember
also
they
are
doing
the
most
important
work,
probably
in
the
world,
and
they
are
raising.
They
are
raising
the
future
generation
on
their
own.
Thank
you.
C
You
know
thank
you
for
highlighting
that
I
think
that
I
just
want
to
kind
of
echo
what
you're
saying
that
as
a
as
a
mother
of
young
kids,
who
is
a
white
upper
middle
class
lady,
it's
not
as
hard
as
Sandy
talks
about
right.
So
what
we're
talking
about
here
is
another
issue
that
is
less
about
Me,
Maybe,
motherhood
and
more
about
systemic
racism
and
the
neglect
of
people
living
in
poverty.
So
I'm
really
glad
that
you
highlighted
it.
D
It
will
include
oppressed
other
communities
of
color,
disabled
communities
and
so
on
and
so
forth,
so,
and,
and
and
and
the
long
run,
the
long
and
short
of
it
all
is
that,
as
you
affect
the
the
the
most
the
most
the
least
powerful
communities
in
this
in
this
state,
you
enact
laws
that
encompasses
the
all
people
who
are
affected
by
oppression
in
this
state.
So
I
think
that
we
we
need
to
understand
the
intersectionality
of
the
of
the
problem,
as
well
as
the
solution.
F
I'll
I
think
I'll
take
this
one
speaking
as
a
black
mother,
a
single
mother,
adoptive
mother,
a
foster
mother,
a
mother
who
advocated
for
children
in
the
child,
welfare
and
criminal
justice
system
for
over
25
years.
I
I,
don't
know
if
it's
that
simple
I
can
tell
you
coming
here
as
a
mother
of
a
a
young
adult
that
is
now
expecting.
F
I've
been
a
mom
on
food
stamps
I've
been
a
mom
on
assistance,
I've
been
a
mom
of
a
child
that
has
cancer
who's
had
to
go
through
getting
help
without
having
the
support
services
that
I
needed
and
decimating
my
income
rebuilding
my
life
decimating
again.
Rebuilding
it
again,
I
would
say
I'm
still
in
that
rebuilding
mode,
so
I
said.
One
thing
that
needs
to
happen
is
actually
having
those
women
voices
at
the
table
and
policy
conversations
and
making
sure
that
they're
heard
not
just
their
stories.
F
That's
great,
but
the
policy
that's
actually
going
to
change
their
experience,
so
we
don't
have
to
keep
hearing
this
again.
The
other
thing
is
that
it's
over
abundantly
and
over
absorbed
with
women
of
color,
but
mostly
black
women.
When
we
look
at
statistics
across
the
board,
black
women,
especially
African-American
women,
descendants
of
slavery
tend
to
be
always
disproportionately
impacted
negatively
by
the
system,
accepting
services
and
things
of
that
nature.
F
F
M
My
name
is
Amber
I,
moved
here
seven
months
ago
from
the
Midwest,
my
second
time
in
Vermont
different
work,
I
work
in
housing
now
and
what
I
notice
I'm
very
direct
I'm,
a
straight
shooter
I.
Think
we
as
white
folks.
You
know
it's
great,
that
we
have
black
lives
matter,
signage
equality
Flags,
like
all
of
that
on
the
surface,
but
then
we
also
have
what
is
not
really
talked
about
a
lot,
and
that
is
the
white
safe
space.
M
And
that's
where
you
find
the
truth
and
the
character
of
a
white
person
and
three
times
this
week
and
I
found
myself
in
conversations
where
I
was
appalled
by
people
who,
in
the
next
breath
will
tell
me
how
wonderful
Vermont
is
how
wonderful
Burlington
is
how
accepting
we
are,
how
we
want
to
see
more
black
people
and
people
of
color
come
here.
So
so
I
guess
my
statement.
M
Slash
question
is:
how
do
we
go
deeper
beyond
what
the
signage
is
hanging
out
in
downtown
and
we
actually
find
ways
to
make
Burlington
start
to
talk
about
things,
because
Burlington
is
a
huge
white,
feminist
City
and
we
can
see
it
at
the
pride
parade.
We
can
see
it
in
local
businesses
and
conversations,
but
let's
get
deeper.
M
So
what
do
you
guys
suggest
that
we,
as
white
folks,
do
and
as
a
community
to
actually
address
the
systemic
issues
that
are
happening
and
how
Vermont
can
go
beyond
the
surface
layer
of
it
being
predominantly
white
which
will
turn
people
away
from
coming
here,
because
people
don't
feel
safe,
housing
conversations
walking
into
a
restaurant
and
you
feel
the
energy
switch?
All
of
that
is
real,
but
you
don't
know
that,
because
when
you
walk
around
downtown
Burlington
everything
looks
so
comforting
and
welcoming.
G
B
B
G
F
On
a
little
bit,
what
you're
saying
is
I
like
the
fact
that
we
want
to
reflect
on
Criminal,
Justice,
Reform
and
all
these
things,
but
I
think
it.
We
have
to
start
more
simplistic,
and
you
know
when
we
talk
about
social
science.
We
talk
about
proximity,
similarity
and
familiarity
that
builds
relationships
right
from
a
social
science
perspective
and
I.
F
Think
before
you
can
talk
about
reform
and
change,
you
have
to
talk
about
how
we
build
build
Collective
relationships
and
Collective
societies,
because
when
you
have
that
Collective
voice
together,
you
can
solve
problems
and
so
right
now
I
struggle
with
prescribing
Solutions.
When
you
don't
even
have
the
voice
in
the
room,
and
so
you
know
you
need
to
recruit,
retain
really
think
about
what
this
intentional
Beloved
Community
that
Martin
Luther
King
talked
about.
Is
you
actually
have
to
have
me
at
the
table
before
you
start
creating
spaces?
F
I
talked
my
team,
a
lot
about
this
concept
of
safe
spaces
and
what
I've
really
pointed
them
to
it's,
not
my
responsibility
as
an
official
or
a
black
person
to
create
a
safe
space,
but
my
responsibility
as
a
city
official.
That
is
also
a
black
woman
is
to
ensure
that
there
are
no
unsafe
spaces
and
remediate
when
they're
not
and
so
I
think
a
lot
of
times
the
lens
that
we
solve
problems
with.
F
If
we
don't
have
the
people
that
are
being
most
affected
by
those
things,
we're
just
creating
more
problems
and
so
I
think
the
effort
needs
to
be
to
actually
bring
those
voices
to
the
table,
but
those
that
are
not
in
a
power
Dynamic.
That
is
one
that
disenfranchises
so
as
we're
bringing
more
black
professionals
to
the
table
that
understand
the
system
or
we
have
to
do
more
education
of
black
people
here
that
may
be
new
to
the
system
so
that
they
come
with
a
level
of
expertise
to
be
able
to
fairly
engage
across
the
table.
F
Because
what
I
see
in
my
short
time
here
is
we
love
bringing
black
people
that
lack
resources,
information
to
sit
across
the
table
from
the
power
structure
and
wonder
why
we
continue
to
have
the
problems
and
so
I
really
believe
that
we
have
to
do
a
lot
more
work
in
building
Community
relationships,
recruitment
retention
of
these
voices
so
that
the
experts
are
at
the
table
with
the
other
experts
to
make
sure
that
we're
having
conversations
and
solutions
that
are
based
on
things
that
are
truly
going
to
move
us
forward.
Thank
you,
degrees.
E
I'd
love
to
to
bring
to
focus
and
I'm
sorry
I.
Just
have
you
stand
there
in
the
spotlight,
every
10
minutes,
it's
a
huge
narrative.
That
is
what
is
it
that
we
do
to
hold
on
to
black
and
brown
folks
that
we
bring
to
this
country
since
the
year
2010
in
Chittenden,
County,
99.7
of
population
growth
or
bypoc.
Folks,
you
take
a
look
at
our
high
schools
here:
Winooski
High,
64
racialized,
Kids,
Burlington
High,
52
percent.
E
They
speak
over
50
languages
in
these
places,
there's
certainly
a
whole
conversation
about
what
do
we
do
to
hold
on
to
really
interesting
and
talented
folks
that
we
parachute
into
this
space?
But
don't
kid
yourselves?
The
change
is
happening
right
here
in
our
communities.
I
get
to
sit
in
barbershops
all
the
time
where
kids
that
are
16
17
years
old,
all
share
the
same
story
about
how
excited
they
are
to
finish
high
school
and
get
the
hell
out
of
here.
E
So
certainly,
I
I
think
it's
important
for
us
to
keep
into
consideration.
What
can
we
do
to
bring
folks
like
Kim
to
a
place
like
this?
Where
there's
a
real
need
for
additional
perspective
and
different
lived
experience
to
inform
decision,
but
the
problem
is
in
what
we
do
once
we
get
folks
here.
There
are
folks
right
here
right
now
that
don't
feel
like
this
is
home
for
them
too
and
I
think
what's
really
interesting
about
this
place
is
so
many
folks
are
looking
for.
Action
tell
me
what
to
do.
E
Think
about
that
for
a
minute
that
look
when
you
walk
into
a
restaurant,
that's
not
one
time!
That's
every
time
when
I
was
at
dealer.com
in
my
when
I-
and
this
was
years
ago,
I
was
one
of
the
person
that
was
very
fortunate
to
get
moved
up
through
the
organization
very
quickly
and
what
I
noticed
very
quickly
was
the
higher
I
got
to
move
up?
The
less
people
like
me
were
in
the
room,
every
single
space
that
we
occupy
in
this
place.
We
are
an
afterthought.
We
are
second
second
class
citizens.
E
Before
we
talk
about
give
me
the
answer
solve
my
problem
and
I
think
Amber.
Your
question
is
fair.
How
do
we
move
from
just
this
conversation?
It's
really
hard
to
solve
a
problem,
you're
not
educated
about,
and
it's
really
hard
to
be
educated,
a
problem.
You
have
no
awareness
around.
You
all
have
access
to
the
internet
in
this
room
fairly,
confident
take
a
look,
there's
some
unbelievable
resources
that
can
start
to
help.
E
You
shift
your
perspective
and
really
think
shift
the
way
that
you
perceive
how
you
show
up
and
the
accountability
or
the
opportunity
that
you
have
to
shift
the
environment
that
you
live
in
every
day:
heroes.
Don't
wear
capes,
they're
everybody's
sitting
in
these
damn
chairs,
there's
no
reason
why
we
can't
do
a
bit
more
and
if
we
keep
waiting
for
folks
to
solve
the
problem,
particularly
folks
that
are
disproportionately
impacted
by
the
problem.
What
is
the
likelihood
of
us
really
moving
this
thing
forward?
E
B
The
minority
problem:
it's
a
weight
problem
right
I
mean
black
people,
tend
not
to
discriminate
against
black
people.
So
much
it's
really
a
white
Community
problem
and
and
putting
it
all
on.
People
who
don't
look
like
many
of
us
is
patently
unfair
and
and
doomed
to
failure.
So
I
appreciate
the
comment.
B
I
think
we
all
have
to
look
all
of
us
in
the
dominant
culture
have
to
look
at
our
own
behaviors,
our
values
and
what
we're
going
to
do
to
bring
forward
the
the
Beloved
Community
that
Dr
King
worked
so
hard
to
achieve
everybody.
Okay,
here,
we've
kept
you
waiting,
I
appreciate
the
patience.
Thank
you.
That's.
N
N
We
have
even
launched
the
parents
for
change
task
force
and
still
these
incidences
are
occurring
and
what
we've
found
out
dealing
with
the
schools
is
a
lot
of
the
changes
need
to
be
done
in
the
policy.
How
can
you
do
that
when
you
don't
have
the
degrees
behind
you
to
help
make
that
work,
and
how
do
we
reach
out
to
the
individuals
that
have
those
degrees
under
their
belts
to
make
these
changes
or
help
us
make
these
changes
implemented
in
the
schools?
We've
worked
with
the
superintendent
we've
worked
with
the
principals
of
the
schools.
H
Thank
you
for
your
question
so
as
to
school.
Specifically,
this
is
an
issue
that
we've
been
at
the
ACLU
with
allies
working
on
more
in
recent
years.
As
we've
learned
more
about
the
long
history
and
widespread
problem
of
racist
bullying
and
hazing
and
harassment
in
Vermont,
we
have
a
client
go
back
to
the
comments
about
not
being
able
to
keep
people
in
front.
H
We
have
multiple
clients
who
have
fled
this
state,
including
a
teenage
girl
who
is
bullied
and
harassed
in
her
school
and
the
the
real
problem
came
when
it
came
to
the
administration
essentially-
and
we
see
this
time
and
again,
kids
do
stuff.
But
how
do
the
administrators?
How
do
how
do
the
principles
superintendents
respond?
Do
they
blame
the
child?
Who
is
targeted?
Do
they
deny
that
there's
a
problem?
Do
they
try
to
sweep
it
under
the
rug?
H
H
As
the
cops
out
of
schools
Coalition
but
they've,
while
that
is
still
part
of
the
focus
of
that
Coalition
effort,
the
impact
of
having
armed
armed
law
enforcement
in
schools
and
the
disproportionate
impact
on
students
of
color
students
with
disabilities,
low-income
students,
the
Coalition,
is
also
looking
at
just
the
very
very
widespread
problem
of
racist
bullying
and
harassment,
and
so
I'd
be
happy
to
try
and
connect
you
to
that
group,
and
it's
just
to
say
this.
This
is
again
I.
Think
folks
have
spoken
to
this.
H
This
stuff
is
really
widespread
and
I
mean
I.
Think
the
pastors
said
this.
Like
folks
of
color
know
this
is
happening,
but
it's
not
they
only.
They
know
about
it
or
it's
not
spoken
of
in
the
media.
It's
not
spoken
of
in
the
legislative
committees.
It's
not
spoken
of
necessarily
in
the
halls
of
power,
very
much
at
all
and
again
to
go
back
to
the
backlash
theme.
I,
think
what
we
have
been
talking
about
in
the
state
over
the
last
two
or
three
years
there
was.
H
There
was
a
moment
two
and
a
half
years
ago,
when
white
people
in
the
state
were
falling.
All
over
themselves
to
get
a
black
lives
matter,
sign
on
their
lawn
to
sign
up
an
equity
consultant
for
their
nonprofit
to
get
a
at
least
one
black
person
on
their
non-profit
board
scrambling
and
in
the
last
two
years.
I
have
not
seen
or
heard
that
any
like
any
follow-through.
H
Instead,
we're
talking
about
things
like
crime
and
Burlington
defunded,
the
fleece,
not
Burlington,
and
the
state
and
the
country
defunded
our
social
safety
net,
but
a
lot
of
really
divisive
rhetoric
that,
among
other
things,
really
distracts
from
these
kinds
of
conversations.
We
don't
see
racial
Justice
front
and
center
in
the
legislature
this
year,
like
we
did
two
years
ago,
and
yet,
as
we've
all
been
saying,
the
work
is
still
there.
There's
a
lot
of
work
still
to
be
done,
and
so
I
just
really
encourage
folks
to
get
engaged
to
stay,
engaged.
I.
H
B
C
For
Middle
School,
this
is
tough,
but
I've
really
been
inspired
by
the
student
activism
in
the
state,
especially
and
frankly,
Nationwide
I,
I'm
gonna,
completely
butcher
the
details
of
the
example.
But
there
was
the
high
school
basketball
team
where
recently
a
racist
video
service
and
other
schools
said
yeah,
actually
we're
going
to
step
down
and
not
play
you
we'll
take
the
loss.
If
we
need
to,
we
want
to
express
as
a
community.
That's
not
okay
and
we
don't
have
we're
kids.
C
You
know
and
thinking
about
like
Community
responses
that
actually
do
something.
I
thought
that
was
really
powerful.
You
know,
like
Duff,
said
I
think
that
the
legal
system
can
focus
on
what
does
the
school
do?
What's
the
school's
response,
I'm
happy
to
talk
with
you
too,
and
anyone
else
who
wants
to
chat
about
proper
School
response
to
peer
on
pure
racial
harassment,
but
I,
throw
out
the
the
student
activism
as
honestly
like
a
little
abuse
of
Hope
for
the
future
and
something
that
I've
seen.
C
D
Yeah
I
I
am
very
much
concerned
about
the
situation
of
public
schools
as
it
affects
people
of
color
students
of
color,
especially
in
rural
sections
such
as
Essex
County
and
other
parts
of
the
Northeast
Kingdom,
where
you
have
a
very
small
percentage
of
of
people
of
color
who
find
themselves
overwhelmed
by
and
targeted
by
whites,
because
they
feel
ice
because
they
are
in
fact
isolated
in
those
communities
with
no
support
networks.
I'm
very
much
concerned
about
the
growing
presence
of
what
I
refer
to
as
ultra
white
I'm.
D
Sorry
Ultra
right
conservatives
who
are
trying
to
take
over
school
boards
yeah
in
in
this
state
and
how
and
how
effective
parents
of
color,
along
with
their
allies,
can
be
and
preventing
that
from
happening,
preventing
the
whitewashing
of
of
of
History
to
to
to
to
convey
the
effects
that
people
of
color
had
very
little
contribution.
If
at
all
to
the
history
of
this
of
the
state
and
of
this
country
we
need
to.
We
need
to
really
rally
against
such
such
efforts
and
I.
I.
D
D
I
do
think
that
we
are
in
a
phase
that
is
going
to
eventually
change
for
the
better
I.
Guess
it's
in
my
position
as
a
as
a
member
of
the
clergy,
to
always
look
for
the
for
the
brighter
side.
I
think
the
these
these
efforts.
These
contrary
efforts
are
part
of
a
a
last-ditch
effort
to
maintain
the
status
quo
against
the
inevitable
changes
that
will
occur.
D
We
have
that
going
on
here
in
the
United
States
there's
a
there
is
a
Battle
of
the
Bulge
effort
among
our
far
white
can
far-right
conservatives
to
prevent
this
inevitable
change
from
happening,
but
I
think
we
need
to
continue
to
push
for
the
change
push
for
the
reality.
The
the
fact
that
the
the
2020
elections,
along
with
previous
elections,
were
such
where
the
majority
of
whites
continue
to
vote
Republican.
D
They
continue
to
vote
for
candidates
that
majority
of
blacks
and
people
of
color
do
not
favor,
but
it
is
through
our
coalitions
that
includes
whites.
That
includes
blacks.
That
includes
other
people
of
color.
This
change
will
occur
for
the
better
and
so
I
would
continue
to
encourage
you
and
your
your
children
and
students
who
are
allies
to
continue
the
pressure,
because
their
pressures
will
will
amount
in
very
positive
change.
Ultimately,.
B
F
With
that
I
think
it's
as
I
reflect
I've
heard
this
throughout
my
whole
life
about
standing
up
and
mobilizing
and
getting
out
in
the
community
and
marching,
and
all
these
different
things
and
I
respect
the
past
Generations
but
I
think
there's
a
both
and
approach
and
I
think
yes,
mobilize
the
problem
with
the
younger
generation
is
they're,
tired
of
mobilizing
and
nothing
happens,
and
so
the
next
thing
is
really
getting
behind
the
policy
makers
right.
It's
not
good
enough
and,
and
one
of
the
things
I'm
grappling
with
in
my
position
and
I.
F
Think
life
is
you
learn
as
you
grow
is
moving
past.
This
thing
that
we
keep
naming
as
a
person
place
or
thing
racism
and
start
to
talk
about
the
racialized
behaviors
and
the
things
that
people
are
demonstrating,
because
that
is
what
the
court
system
can
address.
We
keep
talking
about
Blackness
as
just
a
race,
but
it's
ethnicity,
it's
a
culture,
and
so
we
need
to
actually
codify
that.
We
so
that
we
get
the
proper
protections.
F
We
need
to
start
working
and
fighting
to
identify,
not
just
the
thing
or
the
person,
the
person
place
or
thing,
but
actually
into
action
and
how
it
actions
out
when
we're
naming
things
like
microaggressions
and
things
of
that
nature,
that
are
the
everyday
experiences
of
black
people.
We
need
to
start
codifying
that
we
need
our
allies
that
are
sitting
there
and
want
to
kneel
like
we
did
in
2020
with
the
kente
cloths
at
the
national
capital.
But
what
I
don't
see
is
a
legislation
coming
out
of
that?
That's
codifying
I
hear
about
the
far
right.
F
G
N
P
Hi
y'all,
thank
you.
This
question
will
be
directed
Mainland,
James,
deafly
and
Kim
Carson
James,
because
your
office
helped
I
think
support
something.
That's
coming
up
to
vote
in
March
and
Kim
Carson,
because
your
office
has
a
big
part
in
shaping
The
Narrative
of
this
city
and
the
narrative
that
we
hear
so.
P
We
certainly
want
officers
that
aren't
afraid
to
be
held
accountable,
right
and
I
feel
like
we're.
We're
already
in
this
moment
of
of
a
narrative
battle
about
crime
and
safety
in
this
in
this
community
and
I.
Think
it's
going
to
be
centered
in
March
in
this,
and
it's
going
to
come
to
a
head.
This
March
around
this.
This
vote
and
I'm
wondering
what
you
all
think.
H
This
okay
should
I,
give
you
the
30-second
response,
I'm
happy
to
speak
about
it
more.
The
ACLU
supports
Community
oversight
of
police.
We
do
a
lot
of
work
on
police,
accountability
and
oversight,
among
other
things,
as
this
city
recruits,
more
police
officers,
I
think
it's
important
to
be
mindful
of
what
kind
of
culture
those
police
will
be
coming
into
and
whether
they
expect
to
come
to
a
place
where
there
won't
be
stronger
oversight
and
accountability,
mechanisms
and
they've
been
in
the
past,
and
that's
an
appealing
thing
to
new
recruits.
H
If
they're
dissuaded
by
that
sort
of
thing,
I
think
the
community
should
really
be
asking
what
kind
of
officers
it's
inviting
into
the
community,
because
there
is
a
long
history
of
police
brutality,
overwhelmingly
directed
at
young
black
men
in
the
city,
things
that
have
not
been
front
and
center.
In
the
conversation
in
the
past
couple
of
years,
they
were
two
three
years
ago
so
and
so
to
go
back
to
the
theme.
H
There's
a
lot
more
work
to
do
on
policing,
accountability
and
oversight,
and
the
argument
that
we
can't
do
that
or
it
will
deter
recruitment.
I
think
we
saw
that
at
the
legislature
last
year,
around
qualified
immunity.
We
saw
that
the
law
enforcement
leaders
increasingly
relying
on
that
as
a
way
to
defeat
successfully
any
police
reform.
Don't
do
it
now.
We
won't
be
able
to
recruit
people
and
that's
the
only
way
that
we'll
be
safe.
H
There's
a
lot,
that's
wrong
with
that
argument
and
we're
going
to
be
encouraging
people
to
reject
that
in
this
community
at
the
state
house-
and
you
know,
we
hope
that
law
enforcement
leaders
will
come
around
to
the
idea
that
they
can
and
should
regain
the
trust
of
the
community
by
embracing
more
reforms
that
are
just
so
obviously
needed
and
overdue
and
I'll
leave
it
at
that.
Just
in
the
interest
of
time
but
happy
to
talk
more.
F
So
I'll
answer
it
briefly.
My
position
is
a
little
different
just
new
here.
So
I
wasn't
here
during
all
the
unrest,
but
what
I
will
say
is
this
I
think
it's
more
about
for
me
as
a
city
employee,
the
Precedence
that
it
sets
it's
not
just
about
policing.
So
when
you
create
a
community
oversight
board
for
police,
you
also
create
a
community
oversight
board,
possibly
in
precedence
for
every
other
department.
The
problem
with
that,
though,
is
I,
see
that
is
I've
watched,
the
other
swing
and
so
I
think.
F
The
voice
may
be
different
over
time,
so
think
about
the
schools
right
now,
so
I
was
in
Iowa
and
I
watched
people
gain
control
that
changed
what
you
learned
and
what
you
understood,
that
weren't
experts
right
and
so
some
of
the
language
in
there
I
want
people
advocating
for
me
as
a
black
or
brown
person.
That's
an
expert
in
policing,
maybe
in
policing
the
correct
way,
not
just
not
at
all.
So
it's
not
necessarily
the
complete,
comprehensive
I.
Don't
want
oversight.
F
F
I'm
cautious
with
it
right
I
also
again
think
about
the
precedent
of
then
is
that
what
we're
going
to
do
for
all
of
them?
So,
as
a
black
woman,
that's
leading
a
newer
Department
that
people
want
to
be
heavily
involved
in.
Should
there
be
rigorous
oversight
of
me
that
could
maybe
friends,
maybe
foe.
You
know
a
lot
of
people
don't
understand
this,
and
then
we
get
into
a
battle
of
not
being
able
to
do
the
work
that
we
do
so
I.
Don't
fundamentally,
disagree
that
police
need
oversight.
F
Absolutely
I,
don't
fundamentally
disagree
that
the
community
should
be
a
part
of
that
I.
Don't
know
because
I
haven't
had
enough
time
with
this
particular
piece
of
rule
legislation,
whether
or
not
in
this
short
period
of
time
that
we've
been
dealing
with
the
effects
post,
George
Floyd.
That
we've
also
put
the
research
in
time
into
this
piece
of
rulemaking
I.
Think
it's
very
reactionary
as
a
whole,
where
we're
going
with
policy
post,
George,
Floyd
and
I
think
sometimes
it's
great
as
a
community.
F
That
is
not
heavily
black
and
brown,
but
are
speaking
heavily
for
black
and
brown
issues
to
take
a
pause
and
make
sure
that
it's
vetted
and
it
doesn't
disproportionately
knock
us
in
the
head
from
the
perspective
of
a
black
woman.
Also,
a
director
of
a
municipal
office,
that's
also
working
state
government
and
seen
policy
work
in
different
spaces,
maybe
just
a
pause
to
make
sure
that
what
our
intent
is
is
going
to
line
up
with
the
impact.
B
So,
as
a
former
Council
to
the
Burlington
Police
commission
I
have
many
many
thoughts
about
this
topic.
Having
seen
it
up
close
and
I
encourage
you
and
other
people
interested
in
this
issue
to
convene
Community
meetings
about
it.
It's
a
very
complex
problem.
It's
not
simplistic
one
side
or
the
other
I
I
think
the
react.
The
reaction,
being
reactive,
is
not
usually
a
good
thing.
B
O
O
Vermont
is
under
contract
to
plan
yeah,
a
new
women's
prison
is
going
to
cost
tens
of
millions
of
dollars
for
a
shrinking
population
of
people
that
shouldn't
even
be
there
in
the
first
place,
there's
about
90
women
in
prison
in
Vermont
right
now,
the
vast
majority
are
there
because
of
parole
violations.
Things
like
that,
they
don't
need
to
be
there.
I'm
surprised
how
few
people
know
about
this.
O
You
know
I've
been
canvassing
a
little
bit
on
the
issue
and
a
lot
of
people
just
don't
realize
that
there's
a
huge
amount
of
money,
that's
about
to
be
invested
into
a
prison
that
is
Gonna
Last
for
like
100
years,
so
we're
talking
about
incarcerating,
not
peop,
not
like
adults.
Right
now,
we're
talking
about
incarcerating.
You
know
girls
who
are
like
12,
13
years
old,
were
saying
we're
planning
for
you
to
be
in
prison
in
10
years.
O
B
Q
Q
My
parents
had
to
go
to
a
governor
to
inform
the
governor
that
the
law
had
changed
and
they
could
get
married,
and
that
was
years
after
it
had
been
changed
and
so
I
don't
take
it
for
granted
in
these
days,
especially
there's
a
lot
going
on
it's
very
hot
right
now,
it's
very
it's
very
jumpy.
There's
a
lot
of
hate
and
fear
swirling
around
just
underneath
the
surface,
and
it's
it's
here
in
Vermont,
and
we
we
completely
don't
cover
it.
We
don't
speak
about
it.
Q
Discretion
is
used
to
make
two
cities
A
Tale
of
Two
Cities
in
in
Vermont,
to
vermonts,
really
to
to
take
care
of
some
people
and
to
slam
and
break
others,
and
discretion
appears
throughout
the
system
and
I
wonder
because
each
of
you
have
the
opportunity
to
exercise
discretion
in
the
work
that
you
do
in
your
leadership.
I'd
love
to
know
your
Reflections
on
how
to
get
Beyond
discretion
as
a
weapon.
Discretion
is
used
in
the
judicial
branch
in
terms
of
is
this
important.
Do
I
want
to
take
this
up?
Q
Q
I
can't
take
on
that
civil
rights
case.
It's
just
you
know
it's
probably
going
to
fail,
and
if
every
lawyer
does
that
and
I've
seen
cases
that
no
lawyer
would
touch
period.
So
if
discretion
is
used
to
completely
keep
you
from
being
able
to
exercise
your
judicial
rights,
you
don't
have
them.
If
discretion
is
used
to
who
put
people
on
the
panel
who
all
think
alike,
then
the
policies
and
the
idea
of
the
panel
and
The
Advisory
Board
completely
is
lost.
You
don't
have
that
input
anymore.
Q
B
I'll
be
briefing
responding.
My
conversations
around
criminal
justices,
it's
a
system,
discretion
on
exercise
of
discretion
on
top
exercise
of
discussion
on
top
of
exercise,
break
down
the
line
from
a
cop
deciding
to
Blue
Light
somebody
to
order
them
out
of
the
vehicle
to
ask
for
consent
to
search
to
arrest,
to
use
Force.
C
I
think
your
your
assessment
of
discretion
being
like
one
of
the
main
drivers
of
inequality
is
totally
spot
on
and
I
am
increasingly
convinced
that
the
the
only
way
to
remedy
that
is
to
put
black
and
brown
people
and
people
who've
experienced
poverty,
homelessness.
People
who've
had
experiences
like
that
in
positions
of
power
in
the
government
as
lawyers
as
judges
as
elected
officials,
I
know,
Justice
Sotomayor
got
in
trouble
for
her
wise
Latina
comments,
but
they're
some
of
my
favorite
that
she's
ever
made
something
along
the
lines
of
you
know.
C
I
as
a
wise
Latina
have
had
experiences
that
other
people
haven't
and
I
will
bring
those
to
bear
in
my
work.
I
think
that's
true
for
all
of
us.
We,
we
can
only
speak
from
what
we've
experienced.
We
only
know
what
we
see
out
of
our
own
two
eyes.
I
can
exercise
my
discretion
with
the
best
of
intentions,
but
I,
don't
know
what
it's
like
to
walk
in
everybody's
shoes
and
so
I
know
the
word.
B
D
But
we
also
realize
I
personally
realize
that
I
was
partly
selected
because
I
represent
a
group
and
also
a
financial
status
that
that
can
that
can
talk
to
people
of
power
in
a
way
that
we
that
they
hope
will
not
disturb
or
upset
the
status
quo
and
I
need
to
realize
that
in
my
capacity,
not
only
as
a
member
of
the
clergy,
but
as
a
member
of
any
Community
or
or
or
board
or
group
that
speaks
for
people
who
have
less,
who
are
less
fortunate
than
I.
They
need
to
be
at
the
table.
D
I
think
a
former
governor
of
of
Texas
said
that,
if
you're
not
at
the
table,
you're
part
of
a
menu
and
I
think
a
lot
of
people
feel
as
if
they're
part
of
the
menu
being
eaten
up
Alive
by
an
establishment
that
is
systemically
geared
against
them
and
so
I.
As
a
person
who
has
who
has
been
in
that
position
that
this
Advantage
position,
who
now
have
some
greater
accessibility
to
speak
to
people
in
power
and
also
recognizing
that,
to
some
degree,
I,
represent
that
power.
D
I
need
to
be
able
to
speak
for
a
systemic
change,
a
sea
change
in
the
systems
in
which
we
now
represent,
so
that
we
are
more
of
a
comprehensive.
We
share
the
power
more
comprehensively
and
more
justly
than
we
presently
are
doing
and
that
that
really
is
that
really
is
a
policy
and
a
voice
that
speaks
against
again
against
the
status
quo
and
for
radical
change
and
where
we
are
right.
Now,
sir,.
E
Q
For
you,
particularly,
it
would
be
in
your
work,
how
your
understanding
of
discretion
and
its
weaponization
actually
could
be
used
to
de-weaponize
it.
You
know
to
to
further
our
community's
health
and
wholeness
and
and
that
discretion
piece
itself
and
as
a
consultant,
because
I
understand
you
being
a
consultant
and
a
member
of
many
different
panels
and
opportunities,
what
you
might
do
if
you
step
back
and
go
okay,
what
can
I
do
to
de-weaponize
this?
This
nebulous
word:
it's
discretion.
Q
E
I
think
that's
a
really
thoughtful
question
and
I'm
not
sure
I
have
a
great
answer
for
you,
but
I
can
certainly
tell
you
I
try
to
de-center
myself
from
the
work
in
order
to
make
sure
that
my
preconceived
notions,
my
level
of
discretion.
My
level
of
privilege,
my
level
of
prioritization
or
whatever
it
may
be,
is
not
what
leads
forward
in
the
efforts
that
we
try
to
satisfy.
I.
E
In
my
mind,
it
would
be
impossible
to
satisfy
needs
of
a
community
by
working
as
an
individual
I
think
it
is
critically
important
that
we
build
community
in
order
to
serve
community,
so
I
leverage
my
discretion
in
an
attempt
to
take
myself
and
move
myself
away
from
the
work
and
create
different
opportunities
for
different
lived
experience
to
inform
the
outcome
that
we're
driving
towards
and
beyond
that
I.
Don't
know
that,
there's
a
way
and
and
maybe
I
think
of
discretion
like
I,
think
of
resource,
like
I,
think
of
prioritization
I.
E
Think
all
of
these
different
things
end
up
being
determining
factors
on
what
you
actually
end
up
doing,
whether
it's
in
my
work
anybody
else's
work
at
the
table.
We
all
have
limited
resources,
even
if
that's
just
in
the
use
of
time
and
so
I
try
to
make
sure
that,
particularly
in
the
work
that
we
bring
to
the
table,
that
it
is
not
the
reflection
of
singular
individuals
but
the
reflection
of
a
collective
that
ideally
is
representative
of
the
community
that
we
look
to
serve
and
how
we
look
to
build.
F
It's
a
hard
one,
I
think
historically,
when
people
of
color
black
people
in
particular
have
gotten
gotten
access
to
systems
and
power,
we
want
to
start
to
walk
back
Concepts
that
have
worked
and
provide
things.
I
think
changing
the
lens
on
how
we
see
it,
and
so
I
don't
want
to
give
away
my
discretion,
because
I
think
discretion
is
powerful.
I
want
to
utilize
it
and
more
effective
and
Do
no
harm
type
of
way
and
I.
F
Think
historically,
some
of
the
disconnect
between
the
black
community
and
the
white
Community
is
just
the
realization
that
when
we
do
get
power
we
actually
never
acted
out
in
the
way
that
when
you
have
power
and
so
I,
don't
think,
discretion
is
necessarily
a
negative
thing.
I
think
it's
really
coming
more
from
a
collective
mindset
and
Do
no
harm
when
you
are
using
your
discretion
and
that
really
makes
sure
that
your
intent
lines
up
with
your
impact
and
you
make
sure
that
you
also
have
mechanism
of
accountability.
H
I
mean
I
I,
think
my
co-pantalists
have
all
said.
It
really
well
I'd
like
to
co-sign
everything,
that's
been
said
and
I
don't
know,
I
I,
guess
I
would
I'm
tempted
just
to
bring
it
back
to
the
holiday
and
The
Man
Behind
the
holiday,
and
you
know
just
thinking
about
what
we've
been
talking
about
today.
One
quote
that
I
recall
from
Dr
King
is
that
the
biggest
threat
or
impediment
threat
to
racial
Justice
impediment
to
achieving
racial
Justice
is
not
the
southern
racist.
G
L
L
This
yeah
I
hear
you
I've,
been
to
the
HRC
and
I
lost
of
men
with
the
Legal
Aid,
Society
and
I
lost,
and
nobody
wants
to
do
anything
about
this
white
Platinum
privileged
prick
in
Colchester,
Vermont
and
I'm
exhausted
my
family
been
through
hell.
Since
we
came
here,
we're
not
troublemakers.
Every
I
got
four
adult
children.
L
G
L
B
As
we've
said
throughout
the
afternoon,
there's
plenty
of
work
still
to
be
done
and
I
encourage
each
and
every
one
of
us
there
and
here
and
in
the
community,
in
our
hearts,
to
take
on
that
work
redouble
our
efforts
to
make
the
world
a
better
place
and
to
make
it
thank
you,
bring
bring
to
life
the
promise
of
the
quality
under
the
law,
prosperity
for
all
and
I
feel
for
my
sister
Lydia,
so
anyway
go
forth
and
do
good
work.
Thank
you.
A
So
on
that
good
note,
I
would
like
to
thank
this
panel
great
panel
for
taking
time
out
of
your
very
busy
schedule
to
be
with
us
here
this
afternoon
and
to
you
for
being
a
wonderful
audience.
I
recognize
a
lot
of
you.
You
come
here
year
after
year
and
please
remember
that
we're
one
in
the
struggle
and
we
need
to
continue
Dr
King's
dream
thanks.