►
Description
Ben Joseph interviews staff from the Franklin Grand Isle Restorative Justice Center.
Harmony Bourgeois - Executive Director
Courtney Whittemore - Director of Re-Entry Services
For more info: fgirjc.org/home
11/18/2022
https://linktr.ee/townmeetingtv
Town Meeting TV is a free speech forum and the ideas expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of the Town Meeting TV trustees and staff. If you have a different perspective to share, we invite you to join the conversation! Create your own program or cover a community meeting or event. Contact maketv@cctv.org or call 862-3966.
Thank you for tuning into Town Meeting TV! Please subscribe to our YouTube channel and visit our website for more videos and information about how we open the doors to local government using community media. www.Ch17.TV
This video belongs to http://www.cctv.org and published with permission under Creative Commons License CCTV Center for Media & Democracy Programming is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.
A
Hello,
my
name
is
Ben
Joseph
I'm,
a
welcoming
you
to
the
judge.
Ben
show
this
is
a
program
on
Community
TV
that
used
to
be
Channel
17
for
the
veterans
like
myself,
but
now
it's
Town
beating
TV.
So
in
any
event,
this
is
a
program
in
which
I
interview
people
about
subjects
that
concern
the
the
legal
justice
system
in
Vermont.
A
I've
been
doing
this
for
quite
a
while
and
I'm
delighted
today
to
be
doing
something
that
really
is
so
positive.
My
guests
today
are
Harmony
bourgeois
I
I
spent
some
time
in
France,
so
I'm
still
pronouncing
Bourgeois
like
Bourgeois,
yeah,
yeah
and
Court
Courtney
Whitmore.
Yes,
yes!
Well,
that's
not
French.
We
don't
have
to
fool
around
with.
C
So
that
offers
an
offer
and
offer
meaning
so
we're
an
alternative
to
the
traditional
criminal
justice
system
and
we
give
opportunity
for
people
to
repair
harm
that
they've
caused.
So
the
law
kind
of
deals
with
the
criminal
aspect
and
the
punishment
part
and
we're
focusing
on
repairing
harm
in
relationships.
A
A
A
A
C
Deal
with
adult
Port
diversion:
well,
we
have
a
Tamarack
program.
We
do.
We
have
a
whole
Youth,
Services
Department.
We
have
a
special
victim
coordinator
and
we
we
are
victim
centered.
So
we
have
victim
Services.
We
do
a
driving
with
license
suspended
program,
a
reparative,
a
restorative
panel
process.
A
A
C
A
C
A
C
A
A
A
So
they
say:
well,
the
guy
will
be
there.
You
know
in
the
morning,
so
the
morning
comes
and
I
go
out
to
the
garage
and
this
guy's
up
on
the
ladder
working
so
I'm
holding
the
ladder
for
him
and
he
looks
down
at
me
and
says:
hey
you're,
judge,
Joseph
I
said
yes
and
I
thought.
Oh,
you
know
you
put
me
in
jail.
I
said
no
kidding,
oh
yeah,
the
first
time
you
met
me,
you
put
me
on
probation
and
then
the
second
time
you
met
me.
A
I'd
done
something
really
nasty,
translate
crime
of
violence
and
I
said
well,
that's
enough!
I'm,
going
to
give
you
nine
months
to
serve
and
I
want
you
to
straighten
up.
Let's
get
it
done
so
then
he
says
to
me:
judge
I
got
out
eight
years
ago
and
since
that
time,
I've
worked
every
day.
I'm
married
I
have
a
four-year-old
kid
and
he
looks
at
me
right
in
the
eye
and
he
says
thank
you.
Yeah
yeah,
it
can
work,
but
often
incarceration
is
is
not
so
sanguine.
You
know
it
can
be
difficult.
A
B
A
C
Minor
charges
we
can
deal
with
driving,
license,
suspended
retail
theft,
thinks
of
those
those
in
that
nature,
and
they
will
come
to
us
and
go
through
a
restorative
process
and
essentially
create
a
contract
to
repair
harm
caused.
That
might
be
various
things
from
you
know:
Reflections
apologies
restitution,
if
that's
owed,
and
once
they,
if
they
successfully
complete,
which
is
the
goal
they
have
the
opportunity
to
have
their
charge,
then
dismissed
wow.
C
Around
mental
health
or
substance
use
so
a
lot
of
the
times.
It's
referred
to
us
when
the
state's
attorney
or
maybe
the
individual's
attorney
feels
that
the
underlying
cause
of
the
crime
might
be
due
to
mental
health
or
substance
use
reasons.
So
we
would
connect
them
to
supports
and
help
them
through
a
restorative
process
as
well
to
make
amends
and.
A
A
C
C
So
we
have
a
few
different
programs
within
the
youth
services.
We
would
do
a
restorative
process
for
all
of
them.
Really.
They
also
have
court
diversion
for
ages,
10
to
21
I
believe,
and
we
also
have
the
barge
program
which
stands
for
balanced
and
restorative
justice
and
that's
similar
to
a
reparative
panel,
where
kids
may
be
involved
already
in
the
in
the
system
and.
C
B
C
C
A
C
C
We
have
a
great
driving
license,
suspended
program.
People
can
come
to
our
office,
Alicia's
fantastic.
She
helps
people,
she
has
contacts
at
the
Vermont,
the
DMV,
sorry,
and
she
will
help
people
with
reduced
fines
and
get
their
license
reinstated
immediately,
so
they
can
drive,
they
have
to
be
under
a
contract
and,
of
course,
all
those
things,
but
yep
I
mean
a
license
in
Vermont.
As
probably
anyone
knows
is
super
important
to
have
to.
A
C
Panels
really
are
for,
for
referrals,
come
can
come
from
a
judge,
they
can
come
from
a
state's
attorney,
they
can
come
from
probation
and
parole,
and
those
are
for
individuals
who
are
not
only
charged
with
the
crime,
but
they
they've
been
convicted
of
the
crime.
So
it
may
be
a
condition
of
their
probation,
for
example,
to
come
to
us
to
have
a
restorative
panel,
and
a
restorative
panel
is
really
again
just
about
meaningful
dialogue,
creating
an
opportunity
to
repair
harm
caused
by
the
crime.
C
Exactly
yeah
exactly
and
the
law
of
course
it's
what
you
know
the
law
has
the
laws
of
the
law,
whereas
I
feel,
like
you
know,
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
really
really
focus
on
I'm
going
to
say
the
emotional
aspect,
but
it's
really
about
relationships
and
and
and
and
emotionally
dealing
with
those
things
that
you
know,
people
we're
all
human
beings.
So
we
all
make
mistakes,
and
we
all
need
to
talk
about
that
in
order
to
move
on.
In
my
opinion,
no.
A
B
A
C
B
True,
well,
probation
officers
have
a
lot
on
their
plates
already.
Their
caseloads
are
enormous,
and
one
of
the
amazing
things
about
our
organization
is
how
closely
we're
able
to
work
with
probation
and
parole.
They
send
us
referrals
for
people
in
their
caseload
where
they're
like
this
individual.
We
recognize
this
individual
needs.
Some
extra
support.
Can
you
guys
work
with
them,
so
we
often
get
referrals
from
POS
that
are
noticing
that
the
people
they
are
supervising
need
extra
help,
and
then
they
come
to
us
and
we
can
do
the
same.
We
have
open
communication
with.
B
I
know
right,
shorter
snappier,
so
this
is
a
program
where
we
have
a
staff
member
and
they
are
working
with
what
they
call
the
core
member.
So
this
is
an
individual.
That,
typically,
is
someone
who's
coming
out
of
jail
recently
and
they
pair
that
core
member
with
three
community
members,
volunteers,
and
what
they
do
is
is
that
for
one
year
they
meet
every
week
for
an
hour
and
they
create
a
community.
A
B
B
The
whole
process
is
voluntary
right,
so
the
core
member
they
can
choose
if
they
want
to
join
and
have
the
support
so
they're
also,
you
know
voluntarily
doing
the
process
and
then
the
three
people
that
are
on
their
team
are
solely
volunteers
from
our
community
that
have
indicated
that
they
want
to
help
other
people
in
this
way.
So
our
Volunteers
in
our
whole
agency,
not
just
for
Cosa
but
our
whole
agency
volunteers,
are
so
incredibly
important
for
the
work
that
we
do.
We
couldn't
literally
do
our
work
without
them.
A
Yeah,
well,
you
know,
I
mean
gosh,
I,
know
I've
I've
bugged,
both
of
you
about
recidivism
and
I.
Understand
that
it's
difficult
to
to
generalize
about
this,
but
I
gather
that
there
is
some
indication
that
there's
the
people
who
complete
these
programs
have
participate
in
them
are
less
likely
to
reoffend.
Is
that
true?
That's.
C
B
Yes
and
I
think
in
a
lot
of
the
work
that
we
do
well,
numbers
are
important
in
terms
of
like
getting
you
know,
getting
that
exact
number
of
who's
better,
how
much
better
and
there
are
those
numbers
out
there
I
think.
The
way
that
we
view
success
is
a
little
differently
in
terms
of
we
view
success
as
the
connections
and
the
relationships
that
we've
built
within
our
different
programs.
B
Having
individuals
come
back
to
us
and
and
voice
how
helpful
our
work
was
and
and
the
support
that
they
felt
in
our
program
and
what
they're
doing
with
their
lives.
Now
that
is
kind
of
a
real
Telltale
for
us
of
the
success
and
the
difference
that
we're
making
within
our
community.
So
the
stories
are
kind
of
they're,
the
ones
that
feel
that
that
give
you
the
feels
that
what
you're
doing
actually
is
making
making
a
difference.
A
A
No,
no
I,
I,
I'm
I'm,
just
so
impressed
I,
just
think
it's
great
I
mean
I
I
started
a
long
time
ago
and
much
different
place.
West
Philadelphia
is
not
the
sanguine
place.
That
Vermont
is
and
it
was
a
tough
tough
scene.
I
suspect
it
still
is
well
what
I'm,
what
I
want
to
stress
is
I
think
that
this
is
beneficial
and
from
my
days
at
the
Wharton
School,
it's
cost
effective,
I
I.
Think
really
for
what
what
goes
on
here.
It's
it's
really
so
important.
A
C
So
pre-trial
Services
is
usually
a
referral
made
by
the
judge.
The
state's
attorney
can
request
it
as
well,
or
a
person
can
self-refer
and
what
that
is
is
they're
asking
for
help
to
get
connected
to
supports
throughout
the
pre-trial
the
entire
pre-trial
period.
People
may
need
help
with
a
variety
of
things,
in
particular
mental
health
and
substance
use,
but
you
know
we
help
in
all
facets
driver's
license.
C
There
could
be
a
variety
of
things
that
people
need
and
we
would
help
them
throughout
their
entire
pre-trial
period
and,
and
we
are
report
back
to
the
attorneys
in
the
courts.
Things
are
confidential,
but
if
people
are
needing
the
support
and
wanting
it,
it's
really
beneficial
to
the
individual,
individual
and.
A
C
B
B
A
B
Our
own
agencies,
so
it
kind
of,
becomes
like
a
One-Stop
shop.
They
can
go
and
get
help
with
their
license
through
Alicia
through
the
DLS
program.
They
can
get
help
with
finding
employment
with
Becca
for
our
employment
services
or
housing
with
Michelle.
So
we're
able
to
kind
of
help
address
whatever
the
barriers
or
the
needs
are
for
the
individual
that
comes
through,
and
if
we
can't
do
it,
we
have
amazing
Community
Partners,
who
can
well.
C
Time
it's
time
right
so
so
their
defense
attorney
is
really
there
to
focus
on
their
specific
charge
and
the
legal
system
a
lot
of
times
again.
I'll
just
say:
individuals
are
a
lot
of
times
in
the
criminal
justice
system
because
of
all
these
various
other
barriers
that
are
that
are
a
hindrance
really.
So
if
we
can
address
other
things
that
are
needed,
besides
the
specific
focusing
on
the
specific
crime
you're
going
to
make
a
huge
difference,.
A
A
B
B
B
I
think
we
always
want
to
do
more,
is
we're
just
kind
of
we
can
do
what
we
have
the
time
for
at
this
point,
but
we're
always
willing
and
super
interested
to
learn
different
ways
that
we
can
introduce
restorative
justice
into
other
areas
in
our
community
and
what
that
could
look
like
so
I
think
we're
always
interested
in
in
taking
on
more
as
long
as
we
can
balance
that
you
know
safely
within
our
organization.
Well,.
C
So
we
are
strictly
Grant
funded.
We
have
Grant
from
the
Attorney
General's
office
the
ago
we
have
a
grant
from
Doc
the
Department
of
Corrections
and
we
have
a
grant
from
DCF
for
our
youth
Department.
Those
are
base
level
grants.
We
also
do
get
some
Town
Appropriations.
If
we
go
to
you
know,
select
board
meetings,
explain
what
we
do.
Some
towns
are
willing
to
put
in
their
voter
budget
a
little
bit
of
money
for
us
and,
of
course,
donations,
but
yeah
it's
difficult.
It
can
be
difficult
right,
as
Courtney
was
mentioning.
C
We
get
overwhelmed,
sometimes
with
cases
and
and
it's
hard
to
kind
of
put
a
cap
on
that,
because
we
want
to
help.
We
know
we're
making
a
difference.
We
want
to
keep
doing
it,
but
we
are
limited
I
hate
to
say
by
money,
but
that's
the
reality.
Sometimes
is
you
know
we
have
a
staff
and-
and
you
can't
overwork
your
staff
either
to
the
point
of
you
know
so.
Yeah.
C
C
A
C
A
lot
of
times
we
just
plug
away.
Of
course
we
have
our
reporting
and
our
data
that
goes
to
our
grant.
Funders.
I
will
say
diversion
Court
diversion,
for
example,
is
about
an
85
to
90
percent
success
rate.
So
you
know
it
varies,
though.
It's
hard
to
kind
of
nail
that
down
specifically
to
as
Courtney
mentioned
success
to
us,
might
mean
something
totally
different
than
the
data.
So
you
know
people
come
a
long
way
and.
A
C
B
I
mean
I
think
that,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
this
accessory
is
based
on
the
stories
and
I.
Think
that
when
we
have
individuals
who
have
come
into
our
program
have
just
left
incarceration,
they
create
relationships
with
us.
They
stay
with
us
for
a
year
or
longer,
and
then
we
get
invited
to
their
weddings.
That.
C
B
A
C
Well,
I
will
just
say:
that's
that's
the
point
exactly
right.
So
when
people
enter
when
people
are
in
isolation
or
alone,
they
cannot
change,
I
mean
they're
not
going
to
make
effective
change
in
their
life.
If
they're
isolated.
If
you
can
offer
community
and
support,
that's
when
you're
really
gonna
gonna
see
the
success.
A
B
And
I
think
with
the
Justice
reinvestment
act
that
has
come
through
I
mean
they're,
looking
at
different
interventions
that
they
can
use
that,
isn't
the
end
result
being
just
go
to
jail.
They
they
recognize
that
sending
somebody
back
to
jail
doesn't
create
any
kind
of
lasting
change
and
in
fact
sometimes
it
just
creates
more
harm.
Oh.
B
It's
it's
amazing
to
see
the
Department
of
Corrections
looking
at
different
interventions,
different
partners
and
different
ways
to
kind
of
meet
the
needs
of
the
people
that
they're
supervising.
So
it's
been
really
amazing
to
see
kind
of
that
shift
be
happening
and
we're
super
happy
to
be
a
part
of
it
and
to
partner
with
people
who
are
who
are
interested
in
looking
at
it.
In
that
way,.