►
Description
From the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance:
Throughout this journey of PR. 2 (the constitutional amendment abolishing slavery) we have been confronted with confusion, denial, ridicule, rejection, exploitation, attacks, and lies. We never considered that the system that we were addressing would be our biggest impediment and a source of disinformation, misinformation and contention. We have fought this fight through both chambers of the General Assembly twice and yesterday the people spoke on the matter.
They voted YES.
Our intent has ALWAYS been clear - that this constitutional amendment shake Vermont into the awareness of the legacy of the institution of slavery - systemic racism AND that they would do the work of addressing it.
We'll discuss this and the rest of the states with slavery abolishment on the ballot with our guest Max Parthas from the Abolish Slavery National Network.
11/9/2022
https://linktr.ee/townmeetingtv
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This video belongs to http://www.cctv.org and published with permission under Creative Commons License CCTV Center for Media & Democracy Programming is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.
A
B
So
max,
let's
talk
about
the
day
after
we
abolish
slavery.
About
that.
Yes,
sir.
Welcome
to
juxtaposition,
I'm
Mark
Hughes
I'm,
the
executive
director
of
Vermont
racial
Justice
Alliance,
we're
here
to
talk
to
you
about
the
day.
After
the
day
after
slavery
was
abolished
in
Vermont,
in
fact
across
four
other
states
as
well
at
least
three
so
I'm
joined
here
with
a
guest
of
mine
from
the
abolished
slavery,
national
network,
Max,
parthus
and
we'll
get
into
some
conversations
today.
B
But
first
I
just
want
to
welcome
you
and
also
want
to
thank
all
who
were
able
to
make
it
out
to
vote
vote
vote
vote
I,
keep
saying
it.
It
was
a
a
great
day.
Yesterday
there
was
a
huge,
almost
unprecedented
turn
turn
out.
There's
a
lot
of
stuff.
That's
still
going
on.
It
just
seems
to
be
fitted
and
sitting
where
I'm
sitting
right
now,
I'm
I'm
reminded
of
just
all
of
the
folks
who
sat
in
this
chair
before
it
seems
like
it's
a
good
idea.
B
Just
you
know
just
to
say
that
word
you
know
vote.
So
it
was
a
lot
of
that
going
on
yes
yesterday,
so
we'll
talk
some
about
proposal
too.
We've
got
some
numbers
for
you,
we'll
talk
to
you
about
the
implications
there
talk
to
you
about
I
want
you
I
would
love
to
have
a
conversation
about
what's
going
on
nationally
as
well,
but
before
we
do
that
Max!
C
I'm
very
happy
today,
not
like
let
anybody
steal
my
joy.
We
worked
so
hard
to
get
to
where
we
got
yesterday
and
while
it's
still
here,
I
would
like
to
savor
it
a
little
bit.
You
know,
we've
already
started
working
on
2023
and
the
new
generation
of
states
that
are
coming
in,
but
just
today
breathe
it
in
because
yesterday
we
made
history,
we
forced
States
abolished
slavery
in
a
single
day.
C
Bringing
the
grand
total
to
eight
states
that
have
now
abolished
slavery
without
exception,
where
it
is
illegal,
can
be
practiced
in
that
state,
and
that
is
just
a
beautiful
thing
and
we're
really
looking
forward
to
this
next
batch,
because
if
you
thought
that
was
powerful,
we
just
started.
You
should
have
seen
our
meeting
today
filled
with
activists
and
abolitionists
from
all
over
the
country
who
are
willing,
ready
and
raring
to
go,
especially
in
the
new
States.
B
The
one
that
began
it
all
yeah-
we
were
sitting
here
a
little
while
ago,
talking
about
the
the
work
of
PR2
and
and
some
of
the
some
of
the
challenges.
Some
of
the
opposition
sitting
right
here
with
Peter
teachout
I,
know
well,
I'll,
probably
hear
from
him
at
some
point.
We
actually,
though,
we
had
some
different
opinions.
We
actually
have
tremendous
respect
for
one
another.
B
He
invited
me
down
to
talk
to
his
class
and
and
maybe
have
lunch
but
yeah
just
being
here
in
the
studio
and
talking
about
it
before
it
happened
and
now
I'm
being
back
to
talk
about
it.
Having
been
accomplished.
It's
amazing
thing.
You
know
I'm
reminded
of
this
summer
of
2015
when
I
was
sitting
at
my
my
dining
room
table
and
just
scouring
some
some
statutes
and
and
stumbled
into
the
Constitution
and
ran
across
this
language.
B
It
was
it
was
that
on
that
work
it
was
through
the
work
of
the
associated
rdap
attorney
generals
and
the
human
rights
commission's
task
force
on
disparities
in
all
systems
of
state
government
that
we
were
able
to
gain
focus
on
the
work
of
systemic
racism
and
and
I.
Think
you
know
that's
the
watch
word
for
tonight.
You
know
the
whole
conversation
about
systemic
racism.
That's
the
work
that
led
us
to
the
work
of
the
Constitutional
amendment.
I
know
that
there
are
many
states
that
have
done
this
work
and
and
are
currently
endeavoring.
B
C
Systemic
racism,
as
you
said,
is
really
at
the
heart
of
a
lot
of
things,
but
the
thing
that
we
was
blocking
us
from
challenging
the
badges
and
incidents
of
slavery,
which
is
basically
another
way
of
saying
systemic
racism,
was
these
Constitutional
Amendments,
which
literally
protected
slavery
as
an
institution,
and
now
we
are
looking
forward
to
being
able
to
challenge
those
badges
and
incidents
without
that
protection.
So
many
of
the
states
are
working
towards
those
goals
who
have
already
abolished
slavery.
Colorado
Auto
has
a
lawsuit
that
they're
working
on
there
challenging
their
conditions.
C
It
was
like
God,
that's
no
big
deal,
that's
just
a
minorities
causing
trouble
again
they're
trying
to
do
something
symbolic
and
before
they
realized
that
we
had
abolished
two
States
slavery,
a
three-state
slavery,
and
then
you
know
they
realized.
We
were
serious
and
now
we're
up
to
eight.
So
there
has
been
opposition
against
this
organized
opposition
because
it
does
threaten
certain
institutions.
C
B
Go
back
to
Louisiana
and
I
want
to
I
want
to
talk
to
you
a
little
bit
more
about
Colorado,
because
our
I
remember
Colorado,
like
as
clear
as
day,
because
we
were
at
the
very,
very
onset
of
the
work
that
we
were
doing
this.
This
was
2016
time
frame.
They
actually
failed.
The
first
time
talk
about
that.
C
Yes,
they
did
fail
the
first
time
and
they
were
breaking
ground.
Nobody
had
ever
done
it
before,
so
there
was
no
guidebook
for
them
and
they
found
that
the
language
that
was
on
the
ballot
pressure
caused
them
to
lose.
People
really
didn't
understand
what
it
was,
because
they
were
fighting
two
pieces
of
information
that
people
were
ignorant
of.
First,
that
slavery
even
existed
to
begin
with.
They
were
under
the
assumption
that
that
was
not
the
case.
The
slavery
had
been
abolished,
foreign.
C
Was
abolished,
and
so
they
had
to
educate
the
people
that
don't
slavery
is
still
legal
here
in
Colorado
a
place
with
the
most
maximum
security
prisons,
planet
Earth.
So
that
was
the
first
thing
and
secondly,
they
had
to
break
the
information
at
what
we're
doing
now
is
abolishing
it
for
the
first
time,
so
they
failed
because
the
language
on
the
ballot,
but
the
second
time
around
they
made
a
very
concentrated
effort
to
clean
up
the
ballot
language.
B
B
C
Well,
we
did
a
poll
back
in
2019
via
worth
Rises,
who
is
managing
our
Central
joint
resolution
to
repeal
and
replace
the
13th
Amendment
and
in
that
I
believe.
The
numbers
that
they
found
out
was
that
82
of
this
of
American
society
had
no
idea
that
there
was
an
exception
clause
in
the
13th
Amendment.
The
great
majority
of
them
just
simply
did
not
know.
C
I
should
have
put
this
on
new.
Do
not
disturb
give
me
a
second
here.
Let
me
do
exactly
that.
All
right
there
we
go
so
yeah.
The
great
majority
of
American
citizens
simply
did
not
know.
They
also
had
no
knowledge
of
convict
leasing,
which
is
the
missing
link
in
history.
Most
people
weren't
aware
that
there
was
even
a
period
called
Comic
leasing
where
there
was
a
transition
from
Shadow
slavery
to
prison
sleep,
so
we
had
to
educate
them
on
that,
but
it
was
an
uphill
climb.
C
I
think
at
this
point,
because
of
the
efforts
of
the
freedom,
five,
the
states
that
have
been
involved
with
State
Revolution
any
abolished
slavery.
National
network
we've
likely
gotten
that
number
up
to
about
40
percent
I.
Think
I
can
confidently
say
now
that
about
40
of
American
society
is
aware
to
some
degree
of
the
exception
Clause
of
the
13th
Amendment,
and
that's
what's
brought
us
to
these
winds
there,
because
it's
really
spreading
like
wildfire.
More
and
more
people
are
becoming
aware.
Well,
it's
hard
to
look
around
at.
C
B
This
was
the
first
year
that
we
were
able
to
constitutionally
end
statutorily,
put
forward
a
proposal
to
in
Vermont
the
Constitutional
amendment
that
prohibited
slavery,
and
you
know
from
the
onset
here
just
a
little
bit
about
Vermont
for
those
watching
is
his.
We
always
thought
that
this
would
be
about
understanding
that
the
institution
of
slavery,
the
institution
of
slavery,
produced
systemic
racism
in
Vermont,
as
well
as
in
the
United
States.
So
that
was
the
premise
that
we
started
our
work
from
and
it's
interesting
because
you
called
it
earlier
Badges
and
incidents.
B
B
If
it
makes
any
sense,
we
started
the
work
where
we
weren't
really
looking
at
being
abolitionists.
We
were
just
looking
at
being
activists
and
then
along
the
way.
What
we
discovered
was
there
was
some
abolitionist
work
to
be
done
and
therefore,
obviously
you
know
we,
you
know
took
that
path
and
we
continued
through
across
that
path
and
now
here,
as
we
are
at
completion
of
the
Constitutional
Amendment
and
mind
you
along
the
way,
we've
continued
the
work.
B
I
I
think
that
there's
much
to
learn
that
we
can
reciprocate
for
some
of
these
states
in
in
Lessons
Learned
and
maybe
policy
and
so
forth,
speaking
of
which,
what's
the
point
I
mean
and
what's
next,
what
are
you
hear
in
other
states?
Seeing
these
other
four
states
and
we
can,
as
I
said,
we
can
get
to
Louisiana
as
well,
because
I
do
want
to
hear
more
about
the
other
states.
I
did
have
a
conversation
with
Curtis
Davis
and
some
of
the
others.
B
A
whole
because
the
first
question
that
I
get
out
of
most
folks
here
on
on
in
Vermont
and
we've
been
talking
about
this
for
quite
some
time
is,
is
so
when
you,
when
you
finish
the
Constitutional
Amendment,
then
what
will
you
do?
Yeah
I'm
just
wondering
if
there
are
conversations
that
folks
are
having
in
other
states
are
they?
Are
they
still
running
Victory
laps.
C
C
Well,
we
are
pretty
tired
across
the
board
and
we
work
so
hard
to
get
this
point
so
we're
just
enjoying
and
breathing
in,
but
the
next
stages
is
indeed
to
challenge
those
badges
and
incidents
of
slavery,
so
we'll
be
working
with
organizations
like
the
ACLU
to
do
that
and
as
I
mentioned
there's
already
some
progress
going
in
that
direction.
It's
not
something
we
can
hide
anymore.
They
already
know
what
we're
planning
on
doing.
C
So
when
you
say
this
systemic
racism,
you
know
there's
a
section
to
the
13th
Amendment,
which
says
that
Congress
shall
have
the
power
to
enforce
this
law.
So
when
we
get
to
that
part
in
the
13th
Amendment,
it's
really
up
to
Congress
now
to
start
enforcing
this
law
and
and
historically
speaking,
they
have
addressed
it
in
issues
like
housing,
racism
and
housing,
racism
and
employment.
These
are
all
considered
Badges
and
incidents
of
slavery.
C
Like
you
said,
the
the
it
began
with
the
slavery
and
then
the
systemic
racism
was
put
into
effect
to
keep
slavery
going
to
demonize
people
and
criminalize
them,
so
that
you
would
have
a
steady
supply
coming
from
the
groups
that
you
had
wanted
to
Target,
and
so
all
of
these
things
now
have
to
be
dismantled.
But
we're
going
to
do
it
without
the
protection
of
a
constitutional
amendment
that
allows
slavery
and
involuntary
servitude
to
continue
as
an
Institute
ship.
C
B
That's
what
I
was
getting
ready
to
say
it
seems,
like
that's
a
you
know,
a
long
and
twisted
path
to
go
down
and
and
what
we're
starting
to
understand.
As
we
see
racial
disparities
and
adverse
racial
disparities
in
outcomes
from
the
say,
for
example,
housing
and
from
employment
in
in
education,
Health,
Services,
Economic,
Development
transportation,
the
alleged
Criminal
Justice
System.
B
B
This
is
why
a
lot
of
folks
have
such
a
a
difficult
time
with
the
conversation,
let
alone
the
work,
but
just
the
conversation
on
systemic
racism,
because
that
that
is
the
definition
when
we
have
these
simultaneous
racially
disparate
adverse
outcomes
across
all
systems
and
and
I
think
that
convergence
raw
those
come
together
is
that
condition
that
one
would
put
oneself
in
one
would
classify
a
person
to
be
in.
It
would
be
a
condition
of
slavery.
Right,
I
think
that
you
know
I
think
it's
is
it
Bellagio
Harvard
Harvard
Bellagio
that
defines
slavery?
Yes,.
B
B
Remember,
yeah
I
was
going
to
ask
you
about
that.
Pitchforks,
you
know
was
what
what
was
your
you
know.
Have
you
heard
any
stories
from
the
front?
You
know
from
the
front
lines
and
what
what's
your?
What's
been
your
experience?
You
know
you
know
the
last
time
somebody
tried
to
do
this.
620
000
people
died
in
in
in
in
in
11
states,
seceded.
C
Well,
it's
not
like
we're
not
facing
the
potential
of
a
civil
war
right
now.
History
tends
to
repeat
itself,
and
here
we
have
a
full-blown
slavery,
Abolitionist
Movement,
which
is
literally
turning
states
that
were
slave
states
into
free
states
and
at
the
same
time
you
have
people
who
are
trying
to
dismantle
democracy
altogether
and
head
towards
Fascism
and
white
supremacy
and
white
nationality
and
white
Christian
nationalities.
You
know
so
history
does
repeat.
C
B
B
Is
we
I
guess
we're
a
little
naive,
because
we
didn't
take
into
consideration
that
the
very
system
that
we're
trying
to
address
would
be
like
one
of
the
biggest
impediments
and
also
this
the
biggest
sources
of
like
disinformation,
misinformation,
contention,
it's
almost
self-protecting
off
auto
healing
it's
like
auto,
correcting
this
whole
system
that
we're
looking
to
address
it
seems
to
be
the
hugest
obstacle
in
I,
guess
divesting
from
it.
What
what's?
What's?
C
I
learned
from
Frederick
Douglass
through
his
perspective
of
how
he
looked
at
slavery
and
many
of
the
other
abolitionists
looked
at
the
same
way
like
it
was
an
ancient
evil,
a
living
thing
and
he
spoke
of
it.
As
that
remember,
he
said
we
have
to
wait
and
see
and
what
new
skin
this
old
snake
would
come
forth.
Even
you
know
in
under
another
name.
So
that's
how
I
see
this
thing
and
I
don't
believe
slavery
can
be
defeated
or
beat
permanently
beaten.
C
You
can
only
weaken
it
to
the
point
where
it's
ineffective,
but
then
you
must
play
some
guards
to
protect
from
it
Rising
back
up
again,
because
if
just
one
single
seed
is
left
in
the
soil
it
will
Bloom
and
those
rotten
weeds
will
smother
the
entire
land.
Just
like
we
saw
in
our
own
lifetime.
We
watched
you
and
I
and
others
slavery
go
across
the
entire
Globe
all
over
again
in
the
form
of
a
prison
for
profit,
and
you
used
as
an
economic
development
program.
C
B
C
Know
and
I'm,
not
the
only
one
that
has
faced
these
types
of
threats
and
challenges.
It's
because
of
misinformation,
those
people
that
said
that
about
me
thought
that
we
were
trying
to
bring
slavery
back
with
these
five
states.
They
didn't
bother
to
really
read
the
information
they
just
went
by
titles
of
Articles
or
hearsay
and
made
up
their
mind
that
we
were
people
who
were
bringing
slavery
back
because
slavery
been
abolished
right
and
if
they're
talking
about
it,
they
must
be
bringing
it
back.
C
C
I
think
I
mentioned
it
early
on
in
the
program,
but
to
the
best
of
my
knowledge,
only
two
states
sentenced
people
to
hard
labor.
This
is,
it
would
be
Arkansas
and
Louisiana
and
they've
been
doing
this
for
decades,
and
so,
if
you
abolish
involuntary
servitude
in
slavery,
that
means
that
it
could
potentially
be
retroactive.
That
people
who
were
sentenced
to
hard
labor
could
go
well.
Constitution
says
that
this
is
illegal
now
and
so
I
want
to
challenge
this
condition,
so
they
were
very
worried
about
that.
C
C
The
challenge
would
be
that
Louisiana
would
be
prevented
legally
from
sentencing
people
to
hard
labor
and
on
the
plantations
that
they
have
in
Louisiana
like
Angola
prison
Plantation,
which
is
larger
than
the
Isle
of
Manhattan
they're,
very
dependent
on
free
prison
labor.
They
even
pick
cotton
out
there
in
the
fields.
They
do
all
kinds
of
work,
often
with
white
guys
on
horsebacks
and
guns
walking
around
amidst
them
and
making
sure
that
they
do
this
work.
So
now
they
can't
even
force
you
to
go
to
work.
It
becomes
a
choice.
C
B
C
That's
the
other
side
of
the
coin.
When
it
comes
to
slavery
in
the
United
States
in
the
21st
century,
not
only
is
Free
Labor
a
thing,
but
even
bigger
than
that
is
warehousing
bodies
which
bleeds
outside
of
the
prisons.
It
goes.
It
applies
to
our
jails,
our
pre-trial
detention,
centers.
It
applies
to
our
immigration,
centers,
private
prisons.
It
applies
to
our
juvenile
detention
centers.
It
even
applies
to
the
awards
of
the
state.
C
You
know
so
now.
For
instance,
in
somebody's
cities
like
New
York
to
incarcerate
a
single
person
in
a
pre-trial
Detention
Center
like
Rikers
Island,
it's
556
thousand
dollars
a
year.
If
that's
not
exploitation,
I,
don't
know
what
is,
if
you
simply
invested
50
000
of
that
half,
a
million
plus
to
the
families
that
you're
arresting,
you
probably
never
see
their
children,
but
of
times
they're
coming
up
in
poverty
and
with
so
much
wants
and
needs
that
they're
not
able
to
to
get
so
rather
than
invest
in
our
communities.
C
We'll
invest
a
fortune
into
incarceration.
So
you've
got
a
kid
16
years
old,
who
doesn't
have
two
nickels
to
rub
together,
but
the
moment
he's
accused
of
any
crime
and
arrested
he's
worth
a
half
a
million
dollars,
and
this
is
how
they
create.
They
use
these
jails
and
these
detention
centers
as
economic
development
programs
that
generate
huge
amounts
of
funds.
Absolutely.
B
B
B
That
was
folks
who
either
who
cast
a
vote
in
one
way
or
another
for
a
PR2,
237
097
folks
voted
in
the
affirmative.
They
voted
yes,
81
81.49
of
voters
in
Vermont
voted
yes
for
proposal.
Two
slavery,
prohibition,
30
255
folks,
is
about
10.4.
Population
voted
no,
and
there
was
about
23
355
votes
about
eight
three
eight
point:
zero:
three
percent.
They
voted
as
folks
just
with
blank
folks.
I
just
wanted
to
give
a
shout
out
to
the
folks
across
Vermont.
B
B
That
would
be
the
initiative
that
brought
in
the
reparations
task
force
and
our
work
continues
with
the
introduction
of
the
Richard
Kemp
Center
here.
So
all
of
this
work
is
related,
and
this
is
what's
so
vitally
important
about
what
it
is
that
we're
talking
about,
because
if
we're
talking
about
addressing
systemic
racism,
it
has
to
happen
on
all
levels.
You
just
don't
do
it
with
a
policy.
You
do
it
with
the
work
in
the
community
as
well.
B
Our
work
continues
with
numerous
Outreach
and
education
initiatives
on
root
causes,
impacts
and
solutions
surrounding
systemic
racism,
including
initiatives
like
hidden
in
plain
sight:
the
truth
about
systemic
racism,
definition
of
systemic
racism,
40
days
of
fire.
In
fact,
turning
the
curve
on
systemic
racism,
building
back
a
healthier
Vermont.
We
will
do
that
tomorrow.
B
B
We
said
yesterday.
One
of
my
last
communications
that
went
out
yesterday
is,
as
I
said,
folks
don't
vote
for
PR2,
because
you
think
it's
politically
correct
thing
to
do.
This
has
never
been
about
being
political,
politically
correct,
Max.
It's
never
been
about
being
symbolic
right.
It's
been
about
acknowledging
systemic
racism
and
showing
up
to
do
the
work.
B
In
fact,
one
of
the
last
things
I
told
folks
before
the
polls
opened
yesterday
is,
if
you
can't
see
that
please
vote
no,
so
we
can
come
back
and
have
this
conversation
again
next
year,
speaking
of
next
year,
we
will
be
back
with
further
amendments
to
the
Constitution
in
this
upcoming
session
as
well,
because
of
course,
there
are
other
things
in
the
Constitution
which
was
written
by
a
bunch
of
white
men
in
1777
that
are
problematic.
So
that's
I
mean
it
it's.
It
would
just
stand
the
reason
that
we
that's.
C
What
we
just
did
in
Alabama,
we
did
a
rewrite
of
the
constitution
in
Alabama
and
had
to
ratify
a
brand
new
2022
Constitution.
They
had
in
there
things
like
interracial,
marriage
being
illegal,
also
segregated
schools
being
legal
and,
of
course,
slavery,
and
we
managed
to
remove
all
of
that
in
one
cell
soon.
B
Yeah,
that's
a
that's
good
work
out
of
Alabama,
so
again
we're
out
of
here
we're
out
of
time.
You
know:
we've
never
been
here
to
win
a
campaign.
We've
we've
always
been
here
to
eradicate
systemic
racism.
You
know
this.
This
is,
you
know,
abolished
slavery.
Vt
has
been
a
great
a
great
campaign.
It's
been
just
a
lot
of
fun,
becoming
an
abolitionist
and,
and-
and
you
know,
we've
never
stopped
being
activists.
B
It's
been
a
lot
of
fun
to
meet
the
folks
across
the
United
States
that
are
doing
this
vitally
important
work.
I
have
a
deep
respect,
Max
for
you
and
all
of
you
who
have
been
doing
this
work
for
years
and
years.
I
appreciate
you
so
much
for
coming
on
the
program,
I'm
off
right
now
and
I'm
late,
but
I'm
off
to
a
community
listening
session
which
we'll
be
having
with
black
and
brown
folks
here
in
the
community.