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Description
For more information about upcoming Town Meeting Day 2023 coverage visit https://bit.ly/TownMeeting2023
https://linktr.ee/townmeetingtv
00:00:00 Introductions
00:02:09 Opening Statements
00:03:36 The Problem
00:06:58 Mechanics
00:13:00 Public Questions
00:14:54 Outcomes
00:16:29 Closing Comments
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A
My
name
is
Bobby
lucier
and
I'll
be
the
moderator
for
the
program
today,
where
we'll
be
talking
about
the
redistricting
Charter
change
proposed
in
Burlington
meeting
TV
hosts
forums
with
all
candidates
and
covers
all
ballot
items,
you'll
see
on
your
ballot
this
year
and
our
election.
Our
election
forms
introduce
you
to
community
decision
makers
and
connect
you
with
issues
that
shape
your
local
community
if
you're
tuning
in
live.
We
welcome
your
questions
at
802-862-3966.
A
As
shown
in
a
map
entitled
Ward
redistricting,
eight
Wards
for
districts,
12
counselors
requested
edits
to
December
map,
City
edits,
V2
map
date,
January
20th,
2023,
effective,
as
of
the
annual
meeting
in
March
of
2024
and
for
all
City
elections
thereafter.
So
that's
what
voters
will
see
on
the
ballot
and
we'll
welcome
Chris
and
Lee
both
to
share
your
opening
statements
and
we'll
start
with
you
Lee.
To
just
tell
you
tell
us
a
bit
about
yourself
why
you're
interested
in
this
issue
and
how
you're
qualified
to
speak
on
the
issue
of
word
boundaries
thanks.
B
B
C
Like
to
introduce
yourself,
I'm
Chris,
Haisley,
I
live
in
the
downtown
core.
I've
had
an
interest
in
redistricting
now
for
probably
the
past
10
years
since
the
last
cycle.
You
know
the
city
population
has
been
growing
over
the
last
couple.
Decades
got
our
you
know,
representation
has
gone
down,
we
went
from
14
counselors
to
12
and
we're
still
at
12,
and
one
of
the
things
that
you
know
would
hope
to
see
addressed.
You
know
during
this
process
there
and
it
was
actively
involved
during
the
most
recent
round.
Okay,.
A
Thanks
so
much
Chris
and
great
to
have
you
both
with
us.
So
let's
talk
a
bit
about
the
problem
that
this
redistricting
is
trying
to
resolve
and
we'll
start
with
You
Chris.
What
problem
is
the
word
tradition
trying
to
solve
and
what
is
what
are
your
thoughts
on
on
a
solution?
The
solution
that's
proposed
and
a
solution
that
you
would
recommend.
A
B
C
C
A
B
Solve
well,
first
of
all,
redistricting
is
always
about
Equalization,
so
that
equal
numbers
of
population
have
the
same
number
of
counselors.
So
when
you
have
one
Ward,
that's
bigger
and
then
significantly
bigger
than
another,
the
people
in
the
award-
that's
larger,
are
a
greater
number
of
people
represented
by
one
counselor,
as
opposed
to
fewer,
and
so
my
made
my
main
bone
of
contention
with
this
res
with
this
Charter
change
is
that
it
embeds
the
district
counselors
into
the
plan
and
District
counselors
represent
two
Awards
Ward
counselors
represent
one
Ward.
B
That
means,
for
example,
I
live
in
Ward.
Four
two
counselors
live
in
my
ward,
so
my
ward
has
two
counselors
and
Ward
seven
has
one,
and
that
is
not
equal
representation
of
the
people
it,
and
when
the
the
ad
hoc
redistricting
committee,
that
I
served
on
heard
over
and
over
from
the
public
that
they
did
not
want
the
district
counselors
seat,
The
District
counselor
seats
they
liked
having
two
counselors
in
Ward,
as
Chris
mentioned
a
few
minutes
ago.
They
liked
having
two
counselors
in
each
Ward.
B
It
gave
for
balance
and
everybody
had
the
same
amount
of
representation
that
has
been
seriously
violated
and
that
the
wording
of
that
ballot
question
is
very
deceptive.
It
focuses
you
on
boundaries
where
the
key
thing
there
is
that
they
have
Ward
counselors,
Ward,
redistricting,
eight
Wards
and
four
districts,
12
counselors.
Well,
that
means
that
there's
eight
counselors,
who
were
elected
by
their
Ward
and
four,
that
are
elected
by
two
Wards,
that's
unequal
representation
and
the
public
knew
that
everywhere
we
went
event
whether
it
was
surveys
or
mentee
polls
or
listening
to
people
at
public
forums.
A
B
You
know
I'm
going
to
defer
to
Chris
because
after
the
the
redistricting
committee
stopped
after
they
finished
their
work,
which
was
to
send
recommendations
to
city
council,
the
strongest
recommendation
being
we
don't
want
District
Council
seats
after
that
Chris
and
I,
and
four
or
five
other
people
got
together
and
started
doing
mapping
it's
very
easy
to
do.
There's
apps
online,
it's
very
easy
to
do,
and
so,
if
somebody
said
to
us,
you
know
it's
a
problem
that
we
don't
want
the
king
Maple
area
split
off
and
we
don't
want
it
isolated
in
Ward
five.
B
C
Well,
I
think
there
are
a
lot
of
people
that
contribute
to
this.
So
there's,
certainly
a
number
of
folks
that
you
know
engage
with
the
council
and
submitted
Maps
I
think
it
was
a
pretty
organic
process.
The
council
held
a
number
of
hearings
over
the
course
of
the
Fall
to
look
at
the
different
maps
and
that's
how
ultimately,
how
we
ended
up
where
we
ended
up
gotcha.
A
C
A
C
Correct,
okay,
yeah,
I
think
to
Lee's
point
a
lot
of
the
the
opposition
from
this
comes
not
So
Much
from
the
map.
Although
there
are
you
know,
people
that
do
have
concerns
there,
but
I
think
it's
more
of
the
representation
issues
and
I
think
what
folks
were
looking
for
was
to
kind
of
use
this
process
to
simplify
things
a
little
bit.
You
know.
B
The
trend
is
towards
increasing
representation,
not
decreasing
it.
The
state
legislature
gave
Burlington
an
additional
legislative
representative,
the
hospital
added
six
seven
new
seats
on
their
on
their
board,
the
university
added
seats
onto
their
board
and,
at
the
same
time,
our
city
council
reduced
seats.
It
concentrates,
it
concentrates
power
in
the
hands
of
fewer
and
fewer
people.
It
weakens
our
committees,
you
know,
ideally,
when
a
resolution
comes,
it
gets
it
gets
assigned
to
committee
and
in
those
committees
our
tripartisan
group
of
counselors
that
work
on
it
work
the
rough
edges
off
of
it.
B
When
you
have
too
few
counselors
to
serve
on
these
committees,
your
committees
are
weak,
they
don't
operate,
and
that
makes
the
work
of
this
of
the
whole
Council
even
harder,
because
they
have
to
do
all
that
Jerry.
All
of
that
negotiating
and
ironing
out
the
wrinkles
in
it
during
a
city
council
meeting,
and
so
it
really
one
of
the
biggest
issues
in
this
town
right
now
is
Public
Safety.
B
B
A
B
Passed
City
Council,
in
spite
of
the
fact
that
they
all
said
they
didn't
want
District
counselors,
that
everybody
heard
that
from
their
constituents
the
mayor
threatened
to
veto
it.
The
mayor
wanted
a
smaller
Council.
He
told
people.
Smaller
councils
are
easier
to
control
fewer
people
whose
arms
you
have
to
trust
twist
fewer
people
that
you
have
to
persuade-
and
my
belief
is
that
in
representative
government,
the
representatives
they
go
and
they
meet
with
the
people
they
represent.
B
A
C
C
You
know
I
think
it's
the
typical
political
process,
the
give
and
take
there
and
I
think
that
there
were
some
dynamics
that
Lee
had
alluded
to
with
the
mayor
and
the
size
of
the
council
and
trying
to
get
something
through
and
I.
Think
it
is
a
big
disappointment
for
a
number
of
people
and
again
I
think
that
the
number
of
counselors
in
the
configuration,
the
retention
of
the
districts
is
really
what
I
see
is
driving
a
lot
of
the
opposition.
More
than
the
actual
boundaries
themselves.
A
C
You
know
the
map
that
was
ultimately
adopted.
I
think
you
know,
was
a
compromise.
I
think
you
know.
Key
thing
for
me
is
that
it
did
do
a
lot
to
bring
the
Bob
and
Mill
and
parts
of
the
king
Maple
neighborhood
together
into
a
single
Ward,
which
I
think
is
important
because
that's
you
know
one
of
Vermont's
largest
communities
of
color,
so
I
think
that
having
that
continuity
was
a
good
thing
there,
so.
B
I
think
people
need
to
look
at
the
wording
of
that
ballot
question
very
carefully
and
realize
that
they're
being
tricked
they're
being
tricked
into
thinking.
This
is
about
boundaries
when
the
essential
issue
here
is
about
equal
representation
and
as
soon
as
they
cement
those
District
Council
seats
into
the
plan.
Then
it's
in
our
city,
Charter
and
I've
and
I've
heard
from
some
people.
Well,
maybe
we
could
come
back
later
and
take
it
out.
B
Well,
the
political
realities
are
once
it's
cemented
into
city
council,
it's
very
hard
to
get
rid
of
it,
and
so
people
need
to
get
rid
of.
They
need
to
stop
it
here.
Vote
no
on
question
three
and
then
city
council
will
have
the
clout
that
they
need
to
say
to
the
mayor.
Look.
My
constituents
want
two
counselors
per
Ward.
They
want
a
16-member
council
and
we
can
learn
to
function
that
way
the
legislature
functions
with
276
or
something
the
hospital
functions
with
24
the
university
with
26.
B
A
B
I'm,
just
going
to
repeat
myself
I
think
the
best
outcome
would
be
for
people
people
to
vote;
no,
it
doesn't
kill
it
forever.
It
just
takes
it
back
to
city
council
for
them
to
work
on
it.
Further.
I
understand
that
that's
an
argument
for
other
ballot
questions.
People
are
saying:
well,
it's
a
good
idea,
but
it's
not
perfect.
Yet
we
need
to
work
on
it
more.
This
is
one
of
them.
They
need
to
work
on
this
more.
C
Yeah,
you
know,
I,
don't
know
how
this
is
going
to
play
out.
Ultimately,
with
the
the
voters
you
know,
and
if
it
is
a
failed
outcome,
it
will
certainly
go
back
to
the
council,
as
Lee
has
pointed
out,
provide
an
opportunity
to
address
the
structural
issues
with
the
districts
and
the
number
of
Representatives.
C
Here
you
know
on
the
other
side,
if
it
does
pass,
then
it
would
Advance
on
to
the
legislature
where
it
would
be
I
think
probably
routed
to
government
operations
and
evaluated
and
then,
ultimately,
if
adopted
by
the
legislature,
to
go
before
the
governor
for
Signature,
at
which
point
it
would
be
incorporated
into
the
charter.
So
I
think
that
you
know
in
terms
of
time
frame.
Probably
next
spring
would
be
the
earliest
that
the
legislature
took
this
up
right.
A
Okay,
okay,
great,
thank
you
both
so
much
so
we've
reached
the
the
end
of
our
questions
here
and
I.
Think
we'll
we're
a
little
early
but
I
think
we'll
jump
into
closing
comments.
Unless
you
know,
there's
anything
else
that
you'd
like
to
add
I
think
we
can.
We
can.
You
can
take
a
little
bit
more
time
than
we
anticipated
on
closing
comments,
but
we'll
start
with
You
Chris.
If
there's
anything
that
you
want
to
leave
voters
with
on
this
issue
at
the
end
of
our
program
today,
you.
C
Know
yeah
I
think
really
at
the
end
of
the
day
like
for
me
personally,
this
was
really
about
the
statutory
requirements
of
meeting
the
populations
and
that's
really
what's
driving
it.
You
know
the
underlying
process,
but
on
top
of
that,
you
have
you
know
all
the
different
Community
Values,
like
keeping
you
know:
districts,
small
or
Ward,
small,
preserving
neighborhoods
and
communities
of
interest.
You
know
keeping
the
poll
in
place
in
the
same
ward,
things
of
that
nature.
So
all
these
different
things
came
into
focus
and
you
know
there
was.
C
C
B
Yeah
I
I
agree
with
everything
that
Chris
just
said
and
I
think
it's
really
important
that
we
have
that
we
make
this
decision
about
redistricting
based
on.
What's
the
fairest,
most
equal
representation
for
the
people,
and
this
res
this
ballot
question
if
passed,
does
not
do
that.
In
fact,
it
does
just
the
opposite,
and
we've
got
to
empower
city
council
to
make
a
decision
based
on
what's
best
for
residents
and
the
only
way
we
do
that
is
we
vote.
This
question
down.
Question
number
three
vote.
B
No
and
it'll
go
back
to
the
drawing
board
and
I.
Think
Council.
Will
then,
because
we
heard
them
say:
I
really
don't
want
districts
Council
seats,
but
and
then
the
butt
was,
but
the
mayor
is
going
to
veto
it.
If
we
do
it
well
do
it,
you
know:
do
it
let
and
let
him
veto
it
and
then
you
can
override
The
veto.
If
you
feel
as
strongly
as
you
told
us,
you
felt
about
it
as
we
watched
them
voting,
they
were
doing
things
like.
Oh
I,
really
don't
want
District
counselors,
but
it's
a
good
map.
B
B
A
C
I
saw
that
no
just
you
know,
check
the
maps
online
with
the
city's
website
and
take
a
look
at
what
the
visuals
I
know.
Some
people
that's
a
little
easier
to
understand
and
also
keep
in
mind
that
you
know
this
little
paragraph
that
we
see
here
in
front
of
us
on
the
ballot.
It's
what
they
call
the
short
form
of
the
question.
The
long
form
is
considerably
longer
and
it's
several
pages
and
that's
the
actual
language
and
the
the
charter
Shang
change.
If
you're
you're
interested
in
that
sort
of
thing,
thanks.
C
What
you're
yeah
yeah-
and
you
know
what
I
found
interesting
in
the
long
form
of
the
question
was:
is
you
know
if
you're
going
to
have
a
system
where
you
have
districts
and
the
districts
are
made
up
of
wards?
One
would
think
that
you
know
a
way
to
approach.
It
would
be
to
define
the
wards
and
then
say:
okay,
these
couple
of
wards
make
a
district,
but
the
way
it's
defined
in
the
actual
language
is
they
Define
the
district,
and
then
they
divide
Define
the
words
after
it.
So
it's
kind
of
counter-intuitive
in
that.
A
Thank
you,
Lee,
thank
you,
Chris
and
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
tuning
in
to
town
meeting
TV's
ongoing
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2023,
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