►
From YouTube: Pittsburgh City Council Post-Agenda - 12/17/21
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
B
Agenda
hearing
on
a
proposed
single-use
plastic
bag
ban
legislation
for
today
december
17
2021,
my
name
is
eric
and
strasberger.
I'm
a
member
of
city
council
representing
district
8.,
and
today
we
will
be
digging
into
the
issue
of
single-use
plastic
bags
and
discussing
many
different
elements
of
a
potential
ban
that
has
been
proposed.
C
Bill
2230
ordinance,
amending
and
supplementing
the
city
code
at
title
vi
bill,
2230,
ordinance,
amending
and
supplementing
the
city
code
at
title
vi,
conduct
article
1,
regulated
rights
and
actions
by
adding
a
new
chapter.
610
entitled
prohibition
on
use
of
certain
bags
and
checkout
bag
charge
to
permit
the
use
of
only
certain
bags
at
retail
establishments
at
the
point
of
sale
or
for
for
a
delivery
and
establishing
a
charge
payable
by
the
customer
to
the
establishment
for
the
provision
of
other
types
of
bags.
All
under
certain
terms
and
conditions.
B
Today
we
are
also
joined
by
a
number
of
guests
who
will
be
giving
some
short
presentations
and
answering
questions
and
really
getting
into
a
great
discussion.
Today,
I'm
going
to
read
your
name
in
the
order
in
which
you'll
present,
so
you
can
be
ready
to
go.
We
have
ashley
deemer,
deputy
director
of
pen
environment.
We
have
christopher
mitchell
anti-litter
specialist
for
the
city
of
pittsburgh,
environmental
services
under
department
of
public
works.
B
We
have
zachary
taylor,
director
of
the
american
recyclable
plastic
bag
alliance,
afton
giles
city
of
pittsburgh,
senior
sustainability,
coordinator
for
the
office
of
sustainability
and
resilience
and
logan
weld
staff
attorney
director
of
legislative
affairs
at
the
clean
air
council,
so
welcome
to
oliver
guest.
Today,
I'm
really
just
going
to
say
something
very
brief
about
the
bill,
which
is
that
you
know
we've
seen
an
uptick
in
the
number
of
cities
and
states
across
the
country
who
are
considering
tackling
a
number
of
issues
with
such
a
prohibition
on
single-use
plastics
of
all
sorts.
B
Typically,
it
starts
with
bags.
Other
states
and
cities
have
moved
to
different
items
as
well,
but
to
get
out
a
couple
of
different
issues:
the
amount
of
plastic
we
find
in
our
waste
stream
that
is
used.
You
know
for
a
short
short
period
of
time
and
then
disposed
of,
some
of
which
ends
up
in
our
on
our
streets
as
litter,
in
our
waterways,
in
our
sewers
and
in
some
cases
creating
a
large
gyre
of
plastic
trash
in
the
pacific
ocean.
That's
about
the
size
of
texas!
B
It's
a
number
of
other
issues,
though,
as
well.
It's
about
how
we
as
consumers
are,
are
operating
in
the
world
and
how,
relatively
recently
we've
been
with.
We've
really
prioritized
convenience
over
other
considerations.
B
It
is
ideally
some
sort
of
recycled
material
and
using
it
again
and
again
and
again
and
ensuring
that
the
amount
of
plastic
that
is
made
is
used
for
long-lasting
materials,
things
that
are
really
important
to
us,
like
ventilators
or
oxygen
masks
or
other
things
that
are
really
important
to
have
and
important
to
have
for
their
durability
and
are
not
going
to
be
used
once
and
thrown
away,
but
are
really
going
to
be
used
for
an
extended
period
of
time.
B
So
there
are
a
number
of
different
kind
of
reasons
why
I
personally
and
have
introduced
this
bill,
and
I'm
proud
to
do
so
with
some
council
colleagues.
B
But
you
know
there
are
many
many
more
reasons
to
tackle
this
issue
and
I
think
we're
going
to
hear
some
of
that
today
and
we're
also
going
to
discuss
some
of
the
challenges
to
you,
know,
passing
and
implementing
and
really
getting
at
the
the
issue
of
single-use
plastic
and
plastic
in
general
and
bigger
issues
involving
our
waste
stream,
which
is
certainly
a
behemoth
topic
to
tackle.
But
one
that's
also
important
as
well.
B
So
with
that,
I
will
turn
it
over
to
ashley
diemer.
For
a
short
set
of
opening
remarks
and
a
presentation
followed
by
on
dac
christopher
mitchell,.
D
Sir,
thank
you
so
much.
I
will
keep
this
definitely
under
10
minutes.
D
I
I'd
first
like
to
thank
city
council
for
having
me
today
and
just
say
a
special
thank
you
to
you,
councilwoman
strasberger,
for
investigating
this
issue
so
thoroughly
doing
all
the
leg
work
you've
needed
to
do
to
come
up
with
the
right
policy
solution
and
and
introducing
that
solution
this
this
fall,
we're
really
excited
at
penn
environment.
My
name
is
ashley
diemer.
I
am
the
deputy
director
at
penn
environment.
D
We
are
a
statewide
environmental,
nonprofit
organization
and
we
work
to
protect
our
air,
our
water,
our
climate
and
the
beautiful
natural
places
that
we
all
love
across
pennsylvania.
I'm
based
here
in
pittsburgh.
I've
been
working
on
this
issue
for
several
years
now,
alongside
our
zero
waste
team
that
works
across
pennsylvania
and
our
national
team
with
environment
america,
and
today
I
want
to
talk
really
about
how
we
think
about
the
overall
problem,
the
environmental
hazards
of
plastic
bags
and
why
penn
environment
supports
the
policies
specifically
that
is
being
introduced
and
considered
by
pittsburgh
city
council.
D
So
first
you
know
how
do
we
think
about
the
problem?
Well,
so
much
of
what
we
use
is
made
to
be
thrown
out,
and
so
much
of
what
we
throw
out
is
actually
plastic.
Americans
generate
about
35
million
tons
of
plastic
waste
every
year
and
less
than
10
of
that
plastic
waste
end
up
ends
up
getting
recycled.
D
So
much
of
that
waste
is
single
use
things
like
plastic
bags,
takeout
containers,
bottles,
utensils
things
that
we
just
used
for
a
few
minutes
and
then
throw
away.
So
I'd
like
to
talk
about
the
problems
with
that
way
of
doing
things
right
there.
First
of
all,
there
is
no
way
plastic
sits
in
our
environment
for
hundreds
of
years,
if
not
longer,
it
ends
up
as
litter
on
our
streets.
D
We
went
around
and
sampled
rivers
and
streams
that
we
know
people
across
the
state
enjoy,
and
we
used
methods
developed
by
the
national
oceanic
and
and
atmospheric
administration
to
analyze
water
samples
that
we
collected
and
we
found
the
presence
of
micro
plastics
in
every
single
one
that
includes
our
three
rivers,
the
yakigani
chartiers
creek
here
locally,
and
we're
actually
now
repeating
this
research
looking
at
another
set
of
waterways
that
are
considered
to
be
high
value.
These
are
some
of
our
most
pristine
natural
waterways
in
pennsylvania,
and
we
really
want
to
see.
D
Are
there
microplastics
there
too?
Okay?
So
we
know
that
there's
plastic
in
a
lot
of
our
rivers
and
streams.
Does
it
matter?
What
does
that
mean?
Well,
in
fact,
it
really
really
does
matter
right.
These
plastics
are
smaller
than
a
grain
of
rice
and
they
contain
chemicals
that
are
linked
to
cancer
and
hormone
disruption.
D
D
Often,
when
we
talk
about
plastics,
we
talk
about
what
happens
after
we
use
them,
but
I
really
want
to
make
a
point
about
where
plastic
comes
from
as
well
and
and
what
the
impact
of
that
production
process
is.
Creating
single-use
plastic
packaging
like
bags
is
a
really
energy
intensive
process
at
every
stage
of
its
life
cycle,
and
it's
on
pace
to
actually
surpass
the
impact
of
coal
on
climate
change.
D
D
The
next
step
in
the
manufacturing
of
plastics
is
actually
the
refining
of
these
fossil
fuels,
which
is
also
very
energy.
Intensive.
A
report
by
the
center
for
international
environmental
law
found
that
in
2015,
emissions
from
the
refining
of
ethylene
were
about
184
to
213
million
metric
tons
of
carbon
dioxide
equivalent.
Who
knows
what
that
means
right?
It's
very
hard
to
picture
what
that
means,
but
essentially
it
means
that
the
refining
of
fossil
fuels
for
plastics
creates
about
as
much
global
warming
pollution,
as
45
million
passenger
vehicles
would
emit
in
a
year.
D
By
passing
this
bill,
you
will
join
more
than
400
other
jurisdictions
that
have
already
either
banned
or
put
a
fee
on
plastic
bags
in
the
united
states
and
that's
important
because
we
estimate
that
about
108
million
single-use
plastic
bags
are
used
in
pittsburgh
every
single
year,
it's
pennsylvania's
second
largest
city.
This
could
have
a
big
impact.
D
The
policy
that
we
see
here
is
a
combination
of
a
ban
on
plastic
bags
and
a
fee
on
paper
bags,
and
that's
because
this
particular
model
has
been
shown
to
reduce
the
most
waste
overall
and
it's
the
most
effective
at
getting
people
to
use
reusable
bags
when
they
shop,
we've
seen
those
impacts
play
out
in
other
cities,
and
I
just
want
to
mention
a
few
examples
from
around
the
country
in
san
jose
california.
They
banned
plastic
bags
and
put
a
10
cent
charge
on
paperback
so
very
similar
to
what
we're
talking
about
here.
D
Another
example
from
california
alameda
county
banned
plastic
bags.
They
also
put
a
fee
on
paper
bags.
There
was
an
eighty
percent
decline
in
the
use
of
single-use
paper
and
plastic
bags.
There
was
also
a
two
hundred
percent
increase
in
the
number
of
shoppers
bringing
reusable
bags
or
not
using
a
bag
at
all,
that's
always
an
option,
and
then
there
was
a
44
decrease
in
plastic
bags
found
in
county
storm
drains.
D
D
Now
paper
bags
are
not
as
bad
as
plastic,
but
they
do
have
their
own
material
cost.
An
environmental
footprint
and
studies
have
shown
that
this
small
fee
can
really
get
people
to
change
their
behavior
and
bring
their
own
bag.
So
if
we're
going
to
move
away
from
a
throwaway
society-
and
we
need
to
be
encouraging
people
to
use
the
reusable
alternatives,
that's
crucial
and
a
fee
does
exactly
that.
In
this
case,
the
fee
is
retained
by
the
retailers
and
that
fee
will
more
than
make
up
for
any
cost
differential
between
plastic
and
paper
bags.
D
So
that's
a
really
good
thing
for
businesses
and
speaking
of
businesses.
You
know,
I
think
the
councilwoman
and
penn
environment
have
done
a
lot
of
work
to
engage
businesses
on
this
issue.
Our
team
reached
out
to
businesses,
community
organizations
and
non-profits
over
the
summer
and
more
than
100
of
them
signed
on
to
a
letter
in
support
of
banning
single-use
plastic
bags
that
includes
retail
shops,
bakeries,
cafes,
restaurants,
as
well
as
the
community
organizations
that
are
often
responsible
for
organizing
volunteer.
D
You
know
litter
pickups
from
their
neighborhoods,
so
a
lot
of
folks
have
signed
on
and
support.
We
see
broad
broad
enthusiasm
for
this
policy
and
we
are
very
excited
to
see
it
move
forward.
So
I
I
would
again
like
to
express
my
thanks
to
city
council
for
considering
this
bill,
and
I've
talked
long
enough,
so
I
will
yield
the
remainder
of
my
time.
Thank
you.
B
Thank
you,
ashley.
That
was
a
great
sort
of
foundation
laying
for
this,
this
the
impetus
for
this
bill
and
this
issue
in
general
and
some
examples
from
other
cities.
Next
up,
we
have
christopher
mitchell
anti-litter
specialist,
with
environmental
services.
E
Hi
everybody,
my
name
is
chris
mitchell,
I'm
an
anti-litter
specialist
environmental
services.
My
job
description
is
pretty
broad.
I
basically
get
involved
in
all
things
trash
in
the
city
as
a
project
coordinator,
just
a
larger
goal
of
doing
everything,
with
trash
better
to
get
eventually
less
litter
and
less
legal
dumping
off.
E
You
know
on
our
streets
in
this
role
I
consider
gathering
data
learning
and
really
understanding
the
problems
that
we
have
very
locally
to
inform
our
policy
and
decision
making
to
be
my
largest
responsibility
in
suggesting
change
without
it
we're
mostly
working
off
of
our
own
biases
of
what
we
think
may
work
you
know
so
with
that.
Let
me
talk
about
what
we
know
right
now
about
plastic
bags
on
the
streets
of
pittsburgh.
In
the
past
year,
literati
has
analyzed
nearly
19
000
pieces
of
litter
in
pittsburgh.
E
Literati
is
a
global,
crowdsourced
litter
auditing
app
the
idea
that,
as
you
pick
up
a
piece
of
litter,
you
take
a
picture
of
it
and
you
start
to
see
how
much
you've
picked
up
and
what
it
was
and
where
it
was,
and
things
like
that.
It's
this
gamification
of
task.
I
I
lovingly
call
it
pokemon
go
for
trash
on
the
other
side
of
this.
E
All
this
incredible
data
is
collected
and
analyzed
in
order
to
be
used
for
things
like
identifying
problem
areas
and
crafting
meaningful
policy
and
legislation.
The
clean
pittsburgh
commission
bought
an
account
for
the
city
of
pittsburgh
this
last
year
to
engage
with
residents
and
issue
challenges
to
go
through
the
app
and
pick
stuff
up
and
really
get
all
this
data
in
city
of
pittsburgh.
Hands
to
help
us
understand
something
that
affects
every
resident
of
the
city.
E
We
know
that
pittsburgh
is
unusually
reliant
on
volunteer
cleanups
to
deal
with
our
litter
problems
compared
to
other
nearby
municipalities
and
places
like
us.
So
we're
always
very
interested
in
supporting
that
good
work
by
the
residents
by
providing
more
efficient
tools
and
services,
we
will
give
out
supplies
and
we
will
have
department
of
public
works,
come
up
and
pick
up
everything
that
volunteers
have
collected
by
the
next
business
day.
E
So
back
to
the
topic
at
handbags
for
a
while
now
I
would
often
use
the
statistics
of
say
that
non-cigarette
litter
these
bags
accounted
for
about
eight
percent
of
what
we
found
in
literati
in
pittsburgh.
Specifically,
we
set
aside
cigarettes
for
two
reasons:
one
most
people
don't
even
think
of
it
as
litter,
even
though
it
really
should
be.
E
We
should
be
drilling
that
message
home,
but
you
know
but
they'll
smoke
it
and
throw
it
and
they
think
it's
paper
and
will
dissolve,
and
it's
all
fine,
but
it
that's
that's
a
whole
other
hill
to
climb
and
two.
It
makes
up
such
a
significant
chunk
of
the
identified
litter
that
everything
gets
thrown
off
this
huge
curve
and
it's
hard
to
imagine
everything
else
as
being
a
real
problem
when
those
cigarettes
take
up
such
a
large
part
of
the
equation.
E
You
know
so
in
the
interest
of
setting
appropriate
baselines
to
prepare
for
questions
to
look
back
and
measure
how
we're
doing
we
we've
gone
back
with
the
literati
team
and
they've
made
a
lot
of
improvements
and
updates
based
on
what
we,
as
a
city,
want
to
see
out
of
this
and
they've
been
very
dynamic
in
working
with
us
on
this,
and
so
we
were
able
to
parse
this
out
even
more
than
what
we
previously
had
so
out
of
the
19
000
pieces
of
litter
between
cigarettes
and
unidentified
objects
where
people
are
like
this
is
plastic,
but
I
don't
know
what
that
is.
E
E
Now
we
can
separate
that
out
by
material
as
well,
so
we
know
that
out
of
those
bags
that
seven
nine
point
seven
point:
nine
percent,
sixty
seven
percent
are
plastic
and
about
fifteen
percent
is
paper
like
a
drive-through
through
mcdonald's
or
something
like
that.
Another
fifteen
percent
is
unidentified,
but
it's
presumed
to
be
plastic.
E
There
could
be
canvas
or
something
like
that
in
there,
but
we
don't
wanna
make
those
we
don't
wanna
rely
on
our
biases
here,
so
we'll
just
leave
that
on
and
so
our
new
baseline
figure
for
what
we
know
on
the
streets
of
pittsburgh
is
5.21
of
of
all
that
trash
that
you
see
out
there
every
day.
Are
these
plastic
bags?
Now
it's
cool,
and
I
I
use
the
term
cool
here
pretty
liberally,
but
as
cool
as
all
this
data
is,
it's
also
important
to
remember.
E
Crowdsourcing
data
while
appreciated
and
useful
and
so
important
is
also
incomplete.
We
see
data
from
places
where
people
know
about
the
app
know
how
to
use
the
app
have
the
ability
to
use
the
app
have
the
time
to
spend
doing
this
stuff
in.
In
doing
that,
we
miss
really
important
large
swaths
of
the
city.
It's
not
comprehensive
and
it
can't
tell
us
the
full
story.
E
I
frequently
say
when
we're
talking
about
crowdsourcing,
we
want
to
think
of
like
3-1-1
right
and
3-1
is
a
really
great
system
that
we
have
in
the
city
for
crowdsourcing
information
residents
tell
us
where
their
problems
is
and-
and
we
can
react
to
that.
However,
last
year
we
took
a
different
approach
in
something
called
a
litter
index
and
with
this
index
we
systematically
rated
how
much
litter
was
found
by
us
on
every
single
street
segment
within
about
half
the
city.
E
For
this
pilot
program,
we
did
the
the
north
side
and
the
west
side,
so
every
single
segment.
You
know
like
a
street
from
main
street
to
one
block
over
to
this.
That's
a
segment
when
there's
3
000
points
of
data
throughout
the
city,
where
we
rated
it
a
one
through
four
of
how
littered
it
was,
and
it
gave
us
this
really
great
heat
map
of
where
we
should
be
concentrating
and
things
like
that.
But
when
we
took
that
and
overlaid
it
with
three
one
one
data,
we
found
that
it's
almost
a
complete
inverse.
E
The
least
littered
places
in
the
city
put
in
the
most
amount
of
requests
and
the
most
littered
places
put
in
the
least-
and
this
wasn't
because
we
did
such
a
great
job
of
going
out
there
and
cleaning
it
up
it's
because
those
places
were
better
connected
to
our
system.
Those
places
knew
how
to
navigate
this.
This
maze
that
we've
set
up
to
tell
us
this
stuff
and
and
had
the
the
time
and
the
resources
to
do
that.
E
So
if
we
go
by
crowdsource
data
alone,
if
we
were
to
do
that
with
the
311
to
say
where
the
litter
is
we'd,
look
at
all
the
entirely
wrong
places.
So
if
we
want
to
use
data
to
measure
and
track
our
progress,
I
I
absolutely
want
to
use
everything
available
to
us,
but
for
the
sake
of
being
honest,
I
want
to
do
more
than
what
we
currently
use
just
for
literal
literati.
I
always
want
to
do
more,
but
I
think
we
can
make
this
usable
for
our
purposes
of
holding
ourselves
accountable.
E
So
one
last
thing
I
want
to
say
about
this
proposed
legislation
is
that
when
it
comes
to
litter
and
illegal
dumping,
specifically,
I
always
like
say
there
are
possibly
hundreds
to
almost
thousands
of
different
reasons
why
that
single
piece
of
trash
could
be
on
the
ground.
So
there
has
to
be
hundreds
of
solutions
to
stop
it
from
happening
again.
There's
no
silver
bullet
to
this
problem.
This
will
not
be
the
end-all
be-all
of
this
problem,
but
in
each
solution
we
can
accomplish.
E
You
know
a
fraction
of
percent
of
change
and
as
long
as
we
keep
pushing
that
it's
going
to
make
a
real
difference
over
time.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
letting
me
talk
way
too
long
about
trash.
I
love
talking
about
trash
and
looking
forward
to
hearing
from
everybody
else
and
hearing
everybody's
questions.
A
Thank
you,
chris
for
illustrating.
B
The
you
know
when
it
comes
to
the
litter
piece
of
this,
which
is
just
one
of
many
challenges
we
face
in
this
city
with
regard
to
our
waste
stream
and
with
regard
to
single-use
plastics
illustrating
why
this
could
make
a
significant
indent
in
that
challenge
and
to
help
to
publicize
literati
and
the
need,
for
you
know,
even
greater
participation
from
the
public
and
even
greater
sort
of
geographic
equity
in
the
participation
as
much
as
possible
right.
F
Thank
you,
council
person,
strasberger
and
thanks
to
the
pittsburgh
city
council
for
having
us
here
today
we
represent
america's
manufacturers,
recyclers
of
plastic
bags.
It's
an
industry
that
employs
tens
of
thousands
of
americans,
including
operations
in
central
pa.
Here
today,
as
a
resource
to
you
all.
We
work
with
elected
officials
across
the
country
as
they
evaluate
how
to
address
bag
usage.
You
know
want
to
be
clear.
F
We
are
an
industry
filled
with
people
who
care
deeply
about
the
planet,
care
deeply
about
sustainability
and
want
to
make
sure
that,
as
cities
weigh
how
to
address
these
concerns,
they
do
so
in
a
way
that
avoids
unintended
consequences.
You
know,
one
of
the
things
we
often
hear
is
is
that
bags
are
not
recyclable.
That
is
not
true.
They
are
100
recyclable
through
the
store
take
back
program
alongside
plenty
of
other
types
of
plastic
film
that
would
otherwise
not
have
a
home.
These
are
things
like
produce
bags.
F
Shipping
envelopes
newspaper
bags
that
can
all
be
collected,
returned
to
the
store
and
then
bought
back
by
the
industry
itself
to
be
processed
into
new
bags
and
bought
by
other
companies
out
in
the
in
the
economy
to
make
other
products
like
railroad
ties,
composite
lumber,
etc,
etc.
Every
bag
that
you
see
generally
has
some
recycled
content
in
it
as
an
industry.
We
want
to
see
more
of
that.
We
think
promoting
recycling
is
a
good
way
to
do
so
and
working
with
retailers
to
ensure
that
consumers
know
how
to
do.
That
is
incredibly
important.
F
Bags
do
not
belong
curbside,
but
they
do
belong
back
at
the
store
and
they
certainly
don't
belong
out
in
the
environment.
I
think
one
of
the
most
important
things
we
look
at
as
we
evaluate
bag
policy
is
people
are
going
to
go
grocery
shopping
and
they're
going
to
still
need
to
get
their
things
home
from
the
store
a
lot
of
times.
Bag
bans
will
always
force
consumers
to
use
products
that
have
greater
environmental
impacts.
F
That's
what
life
cycle
assessment
after
life
cycle
assessment
is
shown,
whether
it's
paper,
whether
it's
cotton
or
whether
it's
a
reusable
bag.
Almost
all
of
which
are
made
from
plastics
like
polypropylene
and
nylon,
made
overseas
and
cannot
be
recycled
at
the
end
of
their
life.
That's
a
really
important
consideration
because,
as
we
consider
things
like
emissions,
these
alternative
bags
account
for
greater
shares
of
emissions
and
thus
require
more
reuses
to
offset
that
when
that
doesn't
happen.
F
F
I
want
to
talk
about
one
life
cycle
assessment,
particular
that
was
done
by
the
recycling
authority
for
back
what
they
found
was
77
of
bags
and
their
assessment
ended
up
in
the
landfill
reused.
That
means
people
are
taking
them
home
from
the
store
using
them
to
pick
up
after
their
pets
flying
waste
paper
bins
in
their
bathroom
or
other
household
tasks
that
not
only
allow
them
to
reuse
it.
It
also
lets
them
offset.
The
purchase
of
an
alternative
product
that
would
oftentimes
be
made
of
plastic
may
not
have
any
recycled
content
in
it
and.
F
Environmental
impact,
so
it's
important,
I
think,
as
we
evaluate
these
policies
to
look
at
it
from
a
big
picture.
If
we
are
trying
to
adjust
bag
usage
or
change
the
trajectory
of
consumer
behavior,
it
seems
short-sighted
to
force
consumers
to
use
alternative
products
that
are
more
expensive
and
have
greater
environmental
impacts.
F
F
About
litter,
I
think
we
heard
that
that's
a
serious
concern
and
certainly
understandable.
First
and
foremost,
bags
don't
belong
in
the
environment
and
if
you
don't
need
a
bag,
don't
take
one
I'd
like
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
pennsylvania
department
of
environmental
protections,
pennsylvania,
litter
research
survey,
I
took
a
litter
statewide
and
it
did
include
cigarette
butts
and
plastic
bottles.
Those
are
the
number
one
items
found
in
the
large
and
small
winter
categories.
F
What
it
also
found
is
that
plastic
grocery
bags
account
for
0.7
of
litter
in
this
in
the
survey
across
the
entire
commonwealth
and
that
tracks
with
what
we've
seen
in
other
states
as
well
again,
any
bag
in
the
environment
doesn't
belong
there,
but
banning
plastic
bags
opens
the
door
to
unintended
consequences,
while
maybe
not
achieving
the
underlying
goal
of
dramatically
reducing
litter
in
the
community.
F
We've
also
heard
about
banks
filling
up
landfills.
I
think
that's
another
discussion
point
that's
often
out
there,
but
data
from
the
us
environmental
protection
agency
paints
a
slightly
different
picture.
When
they
look
at
municipal,
solid
waste
flows,
they
find
that
bag
plastic
bags
and
sacks
which
accounts
for
all
plastic
bags.
Everything
from
chips
to
garbage
bags
to
plastic
bags
in
the
grocery
store
account
for
0.3
percent
of
municipal,
solid
waste
and
obviously,
as
we've
discussed
marine
debris
and
ocean
plastic
data
from
the
ocean.
F
But
to
suggest
that
by
banning
plastic
bags,
there
will
be
a
dramatic
shift
in
the
kinds
of
plastic
getting
in
the
ocean
since
95
of
it
comes
from
river
systems
in
asia,
and
africa
is
perhaps
overstating
the
case
again
we're
the
first
neuron
to
say
that
nothing
should
be
done.
We
certainly
can
look
at
ways
to
address
bag
usage,
but
policy
should
be
moderated
in
such
a
way
to
ensure
that
the
unintended
consequences
don't
outweigh
any
benefit.
F
F
But
again,
the
vast
majority
of
bags
77
are
reused
for
tasks
at
home,
so
combining
those
two
numbers
you
get
to
a
figure
of
about
90
percent
of
bags
are
either
reused
or
recycled
and,
as
the
industry
is
part
of
our
sustainability
commitment,
we've
put
a
target
of
getting
that
number
even
higher
in
the
years
to
come
up
to
95
of
bags,
either
reused
or
recycled,
and
so
that
just
sort
of
brings
us
to
the
proposal
at
hand.
Here.
The
life
cycle
assessments
agree.
F
The
traditional
plastic
carryout
bag
is
the
only
one
with
the
least
environmental
impact
when
disposed
of
properly
policies
that
force
consumers
to
use
alternative
bags
that
require
additional
reuses
and
are
still
made
of
plastic
undercut
that
sustainability
objective.
A
ban
will
definitely
eliminate
plastic
bags.
That's
how
it
works,
I'm
not
going
to
sit
here
and
try
to
explain
that
it
doesn't,
but
based
on
the
data
that's
available
to
us,
eliminating
these
products
will
do
little
to
address
literary
ways
to
marine
debris.
We
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
capacity
for
these
position.
F
These
policies
to
change
consumer
behavior.
What
we've
seen
from
research
on
toronto's
bag
feed
conducted
by
the
university
of
ottawa
found
that
any
behavioral
change
from
the
fee
was
limited
to
socioeconomic
backgrounds
that
are
slightly
higher
folks,
who
already
owned
reusable
bags
were
more
likely
to
use
them.
What
this
means
is
that
folks,
the
lower
socioeconomic
end
of
the
scale
were
unlikely
to
see
much
difference
in
their
behavior,
and
so
any
bag
fees
are
born
disproportionately
by
those
communities.
F
The
fee
of
15
cents,
with
no
carve
out
for
folks
on
food
assistance
will
take
money
from
vulnerable
families
and
give
it
to
corporations
right
now.
People
are
paying
about
eight
cents,
a
bag
if
they
can
get
it
if
they
have
a
big
contract,
if
you're
a
large
grocery.
This
will
now
take
15
cents
and
put
it
directly
in
the
pockets.
D
B
Thank
you
zach,
and
thank
you
for
the
kind
of
alternative
approaches
that
we
will
discuss
and
some
of
the
you
know
addressing
some
of
the
pitfalls
that
you've
seen
in
other
places.
Next
up
we'll
have
we
have
afton
giles
senior
sustainability
coordinator
with
the
office
of
sustainability
and
resilience.
G
Hi,
can
you
hear
me?
Okay,
we
can
hear
you
okay,
great
hi.
My
name
is
afton
jasmine,
the
senior
sustainability
coordinator
for
the
city
of
pittsburgh,
and
I'm
going
to
be
fairly
brief,
because
we've
talked
about
a
lot
of
the
issues
that
would
be
of
concern
to
our
division.
First,
we
are
in
support
of
the
reduction
of
plastic
bags
for
all
of
the
reasons
that
we're
already
pointed
out.
It's
the
generation
of
plastics
is
really
tough
on
our
environment
as
a
whole.
G
G
Our
intention
is
to
be
as
recognized
as
being
a
zero
waste
city
by
2030
and
zero
waste
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
nothing
is
ever
going
to
go
into
the
landfill
again,
but
the
intention
is
to
remove
at
least
90
percent
of
to
divide
at
least
90
percent
of
what
currently
goes
to
waste
out
of
the
landfill
and
back
into
the
reuse
cycle.
G
Over
the
years
we
have
transitioned
our
view
of
waste
and
we
would
like
to
start
to
look
at
waste,
not
as
something
that
you
throw
away
but
to
really
start
focusing
more
on
the
individual
materials
and
what
goes
into
making
those
materials
and
looking
at
the
value
that
goes
into
those
materials,
so
that
they're
not
looked
at
as
a
piece
of
waste,
but
rather
as
an
asset
and
trying
to
figure
out
alternative
ways
to
use
that
asset
and
to
get
as
much
out
of
all
the
things
that
we
produce
and
put
into
the
environment
at
the
end
of
the
day.
G
In
doing
this,
we
have
actually,
you
know
over
the
years
transitioned
from
the
the
typical
reduce
reuse,
recycle
mantra
to
actually
an
upside
down
pyramid
which
focuses
more
on
source
reduction
and
the
zero
and
the
plastic
bag
ban
is
definitely
something
that
will
help
with
that
source
reduction.
As
was
pointed
out
only
about
10
of
the
plastic
bags
that
you
know
we
do
have
are
actually
being
recycled.
And
yes,
there
are
really
good
intentions
to
try
to
want
to
increase
that.
G
But
but
you
know
once
we
use
those
plastic
bags
and
we
receive
them
ultimately
they're
only
being
maybe
recycled
once
as
they're
downgraded
from
being
used
to
hold
to
bring
down
growth,
to
bring
in
groceries
or
other
things
as
a
matter
of
convenience
and
then
used
again
and
ultimately
thrown
away
after
only
one
use,
and
yes,
that
is
recycling
but
source
reduction,
of
course,
is
one
of
the
most
important
things
that
we
can
do
beyond
stress,
reduction
and
recycling
and
composting.
G
G
G
We
also
did
our
bin
distribution,
in
which
we
hope
to
be
completed
actually
ahead
of
schedule
by
next
year,
and
we
feel
that
doing
the
plastic
bag
ban
will
help
us
on
our
trajectory,
along
with
some
of
the
other
measures
that
we're
taking,
with
with
regards
to
things
like
community
composting
and
some
of
the
other
measures
that
we're
doing
in
order
to
help
to
reduce
further
reduce
and
reach
our
zero
waste
goal
by
2030.,
and
that's
it
for
us.
Thank
you.
B
Thank
you
afton.
So
thank
you,
for
you
know
tying
this
into
some
of
the
city
pittsburgh
goals
and
to
see
where
this
conversation
about
seeing
you
single-use
plastic,
really
fits
into
our
climate
action
plan,
our
sustainability
plans
and
some
of
the
other
kind
of
research
well
researched
and
laid
out
plans
that
we
have
and
aspirations
as
a
city.
I
appreciate
it.
Finally,
last
but
not
least,
we
have
logan
weld
staff
attorney
and
the
director
of
legislative
affairs
at
the
clean
air
council,
logan.
H
Hey
good
afternoon,
everyone
logan
weldy,
but
everyone
says
well
so
my.
H
Yeah,
I
I
actually
think
my
family
is
probably
wrong
because
everyone
says
well,
so
I
I
just
don't
even
correct
anyone
anymore.
So
I'm
at
the
clean
air
council
we're
based
in
philadelphia,
but
we've
got
offices
in
pittsburgh
and
throughout
pennsylvania,
and
I
went
to
law
school
to
work
on
plastic
bags.
I
was
living
in
new
york
city
and
I
was
just
blown
away
at
how
they
had
just
invaded
every
part
of
of
our
community
and
just
it's
the
you
know:
modern
tumbleweed
for
cities
and
a
blight
on
our
communities.
H
So
I'm
I'm
glad
that
I
went
last
because
and
nothing
personal
against
zachary,
I'm
sure
he's
a
wonderful
person,
but
I'm
I'm
probably
going
to
every
time.
Industry
speaks
my
heart
just
starts
racing
and
I'm
glad
I
have
the
chance
to
explain
a
lot
of
the
things
that
he
said.
How
and
how
they're
wrong.
I
just
wanted
to
start
by
saying:
ashley
did
a
great
job
of
going
over
the
environmental
impact,
so
I'm
not
gonna
touch
on
that
really
at
all.
We
did
file
a
lawsuit
against
the
state.
H
Well,
we
intervened
in
a
lawsuit,
along
with
some
municipalities,
including
pittsburgh
against
the
plastic
bag
preemption,
and
I
believe
it
is
your
as
elected
officials,
constitutional
obligation
to
deal
with
the
plastic
crisis
that
we're
facing
there
isn't
as
as
ashley
mentioned,
there's
not
a
piece
of
this
state,
that's
not
impacted
by
plastic
waste,
and
you
know,
as
christopher
mentioned
it
breaks
up
and
and
it's
difficult
sometimes
to
find
those
pieces.
H
So
I
I
don't
think
I'm
going
to
talk
for
10
minutes,
but
I
did
just
want
to
address
a
lot
of
the
things
that
zachary
said
and
why
why
it's
just
industry
speak
and
complete
nonsense.
I
was
on
radio
times
for
an
hour
with
with
an
industry
spokesperson
and
if
you
want
to
go
back
and
listen
to
that,
I
think
it's
an
informative
interview,
but
you
know
zachary
mentioned
the
amount
of
stuff
that's
found
in
these
studies.
Well,
it's
not
the
amount
of
stuff.
H
If
you
find
some,
you
know
arsenic
in
your
food,
you
might
have
99
food
and
one
percent
arsenic.
It's
still
gonna
kill
you.
The
industry
loves
talking
about
the
the
amount
of
plastic
bags
and
plastic
waste
found
in
these
things,
but
that's
not
the
real
value
in
these
studies.
It's
it's.
What
are
they
doing
to
our
communities
when
you
walk
through
a
community?
And
you
see
it
completely
littered
with
plastic
bags?
H
You
know
you
don't
need
to
to
gather
all
the
litter
in
the
community
and
weigh
it
and
say:
oh
well,
plastic
bags
are
only
one
percent
of
the
weight
of
of
the
litter.
Let's
not
deal
with
that.
You
know
in
philadelphia.
The
industry
came
in
many
many
years
in
a
row
at
public
meetings
and
said:
oh
well.
We
need
to
protect
these
communities.
We
need
to
do
this.
It's
not
just
banning
these
bags
and
it's
bad
for
low-income
communities
to
do
this.
Where
were
they
after
that
meeting?
H
They
never
once
came
to
these
communities
to
show
up
the
bag.
Take
backs
that
that
zachary
talks
about
we
called
every
single
one
of
them
in
philadelphia,
almost
every
one
of
them
had
had
discontinued
the
program.
There
is
no
market
for
these
plastic
bags
virgin
gas
that
is
produced
that
produces
plastic
is
so
much
cheaper
than
recycled
plastic
you're
not
going
to
get
a
plastic
bag
that
is
going
to
have.
You
know
continuous
recycling,
it's
just
not
going
to
happen.
These
are
myths
that
industry
creates
to
make.
H
Everyone
feel
better
about
the
waste
that
we
are
creating
in
our
societies,
and
you
know,
obviously
I'm
getting
fired
up
right
now
and
I'm
very
passionate
about
this.
I've
worked
on
this
issue
for
a
long
time.
Industry
wants
to
keep
selling
their
products.
They
want
us
to
believe
90
of
the
bags
are
reused
or
recycled.
That's
just
completely.
I
don't
know
where
he's
come
up
with
that
number,
but
that
is
a
fantasy
that
industry
is
living
with.
That
is
just
not
reality
when
you
get
500
plastic
bags
every
year.
H
Sorry,
I'm
speaking
very
quickly-
and
I
know
there's
a
in
sign
interpreter
I'll,
slow
down
a
little
bit.
You
know
when
you
get
over
500
plastic
bags
per
year
from
the
store
you're,
not
using
90
of
those
bags
and
most
people.
You
know
they.
They
have
a
huge
bin
of
bags
underneath
their
sink
and
those
just
sit
there
until
they
until
they
throw
them
away.
H
You
know
I
wasn't
really
even
going
to
touch
on
any
of
these
things
because
I
didn't
know
zachary
was
going
to
be
sending
the
the
industry
propaganda
out
there,
but
the
link,
low-income
people,
it's
so
funny
how
all
of
the
industry
groups
push
for
these
low-income
carve-outs?
Why?
Why
did
they
push
for
the
low
income
carve-outs?
Because
it's
an
industry
talking
point
that
low-income
people
can't
afford
these
bag
fees?
The
point
of
this
legislation
is
not
to
have
a
bag
fee.
H
The
point
of
this
legislation
is
to
modify
people's
behavior
so
that
they
don't
take
a
bag
from
the
grocery
store
or,
as
I
think,
as
ashley
pointed
out,
or
someone
pointed
out,
most
of
the
purchases
are
for
two
or
three
items
or
less
they.
Don't
you
don't
need
a
bag.
You
know
if
you're
living
in
a
community
you
have
your
own
bag
or
there's
things
called
pockets.
H
You
know,
industry
doesn't
talk
a
lot
about
pockets,
but
when
we
get
tylenol
or
we
get
gum
from
a
store,
we
don't
need
two
plastic
bags
that
are,
you
know
they
always
double
wrap
these
bags,
for
us
put
them
in
your
pockets.
These
are
things
that
industry
just
pretends
don't
exist.
We
carry
our
own
bags.
We
have
pockets.
Okay,
check
that
off
the
list.
So
all
these
these
80
to
90
of
these
trips
to
the
store.
We
don't
need
a
bag
to
begin
with.
H
So
why
do
we
need
two
plastic
bags
for
for
a
thing
of
tylenol?
You
know
and
then
low
income,
people
they're
so
they're
so
passionate
about
protecting
low-income
people.
When
do
they
come
into
those
communities
and
do
anything
for
those
people
other
than
a
testimony
like
this,
when
they
want
to
just
talk
about
how
it's
regressive
and
it
disproportionately
hurts
low-income
people,
you
know
disproportionately
hurts
low-income
people
when
their
communities
are
completely
littered
with
trash
that
they've
put
into
our
society
like
the
opioid
dealers
and
they
don't
care
about
those
people.
H
Afterwards,
we
have
communities
in
philadelphia
and
pittsburgh
that
are
so
completely
littered
with
plastic
businesses
don't
want
it.
They
don't
want
to
be
part
of
that
community.
Your
property
value
is
next
to
nothing.
I'm
not
going
to
buy
a
house
if
it's
completely
littered
next
to
next
to
an
empty
lot
with
plastic.
H
Does
industry
come
in
and
help
clean
up
those
communities
when
communities
need
to
have
clean
up
events?
Do
they?
You
know
what
do
they
do?
They
sit
and
they
talk
to
council
members
about
how
it's
so
it's
so
difficult
on
low-income
members
of
our
communities,
but
we
don't
hear
anything
other
than
than
when
they
want
to
push
their
products.
I
just
I
literally
could
talk
all
day
about
how
industry
talking
points
are
just
they're.
Just
that
they're
talking
points
they
don't
care
about
the
communities
that
we
live
in.
H
They
don't
care
about
the
the
water
in
pennsylvania
that
is
literally
filled
with
plastic
and
council
member.
You
mentioned
the
great
garbage
patch.
It's
not
just
one
the
size
of
texas,
it's
every
single
gyre
in
the
world
is
filled
with
plastic
now,
and
the
gyres
are
the
circulatory
effects
that
we're
seeing
in
the
water
and
it
pushes
the
plastic
into
certain
areas.
All
five
of
our
gyres
are
filled
with
plastic.
Our
birds
are
filled
with
plastic.
You
know,
and
zach
talked
about
the
weight.
H
Well,
when
you
have
one
plastic
bag
in
your
community
and
it
and
it
plugs
this
to
a
storm
drain
that
storm
drain
needs
to
get
fixed.
It's
not
you
know.
The
plastic
bag
weight
in
the
litter
study
doesn't
make
any
difference.
It's
the
damage
that
these
products
are
doing
to
our
communities,
the
lack
of
investment
in
our
communities,
the
depression
that
people
people
feel
philadelphia,
did
an
amazing
study
about
depression
in
communities
when
they're
littered
and
when
they're
cleaned
up
and
greened
depression
rates
plummeted,
people
felt
better
about
themselves.
H
You
can
just
feel
the
weight
of
depression
when
you're
in
these
littered
communities,
businesses.
This
is,
and
this
is
actually
what
I
was
going
to
say
today.
I
wasn't
even
going
to
mention
any
of
the
things
that
I
just
talked
about,
but
I
just
I
mean
it's
infuriating
that
industry
comes
out
and
with
these
talking
points
that
just
have
no
basis
in
reality,
you
know
this
bill
is
basically
the
perfect
bill.
I
think
you
did
a
great
job.
The
low-income
community
needs
this
bill
more
than
any
community.
H
Like
I
said,
the
point
of
these
bills
are
to
modify
people's
behavior,
not
to
force
them
to
pay
a
15
cent
fee
for
a
bag,
but
to
force
them
to
understand,
there's
a
cost
to
these
things
and
give
them
the
opportunity
to
to
make
that
educated
decision
to
not
take
a
bag.
So
when
you're,
just
when
you're
in
a
store-
and
you
say-
oh-
it's
a
15
cent
fee-
the
retailer
is
just
telling
you
the
truth.
The
retailer
buries
the
cost
of
that
fee
in
the
cost
of
goods
sold
low
income
people.
H
If
you
do
a
carve
out
we'll
pay
higher
prices
for
all
of
the
goods
that
they
are
buying,
and
that
is
regressive.
That
is
disproportionately
affecting
low-income
communities.
Do
you
think
magically
that
retailers
are
just
going
to
suck
up
the
cost
of
these
bags
and
not
pass
them
on
to
consumers?
This
is
what
industry
doesn't
tell.
You
is
that
those
costs
are
already
buried
in
the
cost
of
goods
sold
and
they
are
damaging
to
communities
that
already
suffer
from
income
disparities.
H
So
don't
do
a
low
income
carve
out,
don't
listen
to
this
propaganda
from
industry
and
don't
listen
to
the
fact
that
it's
just
a
one
percent.
Ninety
percent
are
recycled
or
reused.
That's
just
it's
just
not
true.
You
know
they.
They
have
their
own
statistics,
and
everything
that
we
found
is
just
not
true
that
that
industry
has
said
so
the
bottom
line-
and
this
is
a
great
bill-
you
guys-
should
pass
it.
You
should
be
proud
of
yourselves.
You
should
rise
above
this
industry
nonsense.
H
You
should
rise
above
the
fact
that
you
know
it's
disproportionately
harmful
to
low-income
communities
and
understand,
what's
disproportionately
affecting
these
communities.
Is
the
litter
chris
mitchell
mentioned
that
the
communities
that
suffer
the
worst
don't
communicate
the
most
about
it?
They
are
suffering.
You
guys
need
to
help
them.
This
is
a
pro-business
build.
You
know
when
you
go
to
a
business.
H
Imagine
if
you
could
say
hey
business,
we're
going
to
take
away
the
cost
of
your
electricity
and
you
don't
need
to
pay
for
it.
They're
not
gonna,
they're
gonna
be
so
happy
about
that,
because
they're
not
gonna
have
to
pass
that
on
to
the
consumers.
They're
gonna
be
able
to
lower
the
the
products
that
they're
selling.
This
is
the
same
thing
as
a
bag
bags
aren't
free,
you
don't
get
a
free
bag
from
a
grocery
store.
H
You
pay
for
that
bag
in
the
goods
that
you're
buying
at
the
store,
just
like
every
other
cost
of
the
business
has
so
I
I
know
I
apologize
for
being
so
fired
up,
but
I
can't
sit
by
and
let
industry
tell
you
these
things
and
not
you
know,
get
very
passionate
about
it.
I
I
am
doing
this
because
I
believe
that
these
are
the
right
things
to
do,
and
you
guys
have
a
great
bill
and
don't
change
it.
A
Okay,
thank
you
logan,
so
we.
B
Have
exhausted
the
presentation
portion
of
this
hearing
and
now
we'll
move
on
to
questions
and
answers,
and
I
don't
see
any
of
my
council
colleagues,
although
I
know
many
are
very,
very,
very
interested
in
this
and
it's
it's
a
friday
afternoon,
and
so
I
have
a
feeling
that
either
they
will
be
tuning
in
at
a
different
time
or
are
watching
it
at
the
recorded
version
of
this.
At.
B
And
so
I'll
be
doing
the
the
asking
of
questions
here
as
we
move
forward,
I
love
to
hear
a
good
debate
among
different
viewpoints
and
different
different
people.
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we
keep
it
respectful
going
forward
as
well.
So
there
are
a
couple
different
points
to
consider
when,
when
creating
a
bill,
there's
the
language
of
the
bill
itself
and
then
there's
all
the
work
that
happens
after
enactment
of
the
bill
or
after
passage
of
the
bill.
B
So,
let's
start
with
the
bill
itself,
we've
heard
from
a
couple
of
people
that
that.
B
Are
there
are
there
are
a
lot
of
different
considerations
for
different
parts
of
the
bill?
Do
we
I'll
start
with
one
that
we
just
kind
of
heard
about?
Do
we
when
we're
considering
equity,
which
is
a
a
really
important
aspect
of
all
legislation
that
legislators
and
council
members
should
be
considering
for
all
all
pieces
of
legislation?
B
You
know-
and
this
is
something
we've
wrestled
with
as
well:
do
we
accept
a
or
do
we
carve
out
an
exception
for
anyone
who's,
a
snap,
wick
or
other
bet
benefits
been
a
beneficiary
of
of
those
kinds
of
benefits
so
that,
for
instance,
if
they
can
show
their
card
that
they
have
that
they
receive
benefits.
Snap
benefits,
something
like
that
they
would
be
exempt
from
paying
the
fee,
or
should
we
not
based
on
kind
of
what
logan
was
saying?
B
I
want
to
open
it
up
to
others.
I
mean
really
to
anyone
who
has
spoken
and
has
any
additional
thoughts
on
this,
because
this
is
something
that
we've
been
really
wrestling
with.
As
council
members
we've
heard
from
logan
that
you
know
all
the
reasons
why
it
doesn't
make
sense
that
this
is
built
into
the
cost
of
doing
business.
We'd
love
to
hear
from
from
you
logan
as
as
well,
but
others
as
well
on
this
topic,
and
if
people
have
thoughts
on
this.
F
Sure,
I
guess
I'll
I'll
go
in
first,
that's
alright!
With
you,
council
person,
you
know
talking
about
this
concern.
I
think
I'd
point
back
again
to
the
university
of
ottawa
study.
That
said,
that
sort
of
the
behavioral
changes
were
limited
to
a
certain
certain
demographic
households
with
higher
socioeconomic
status,
who
already
own
reusable
bags
and
thus
freeze
them
more
and
obviously,
that's
a
consideration
with
this
policy
is
to
encourage
that
behavior.
F
What
that
also
found,
though,
is
that,
because
it
was
limited
as
households,
there
were
other
households
who
didn't
make
the
change
and
were
unable
to
whether
that's
because
of
how
frequently
they
shop
their
shopping
habits,
their
price
sensitivity,
whatever
reason
that
might
be,
and
so
they
were
more
likely
to
bear
the
fee
and
have
to
pay
it,
do
you
get
the
groceries
on
because
everyone
needs
to
bring
fujo.
F
So
I
think
the
question
here
is
less
about
whether
there
should
be
a
carve
out
or
not,
but
I
think
talking
about
where
the
actual
money
is
go.
You
know,
I
think
the
city
of
chicago
is
a
great
example
to
talk
about.
They
initially
passed
a
ban
on
plastic
bags.
They
didn't
put
a
fee
on
paper
what
they
see
paper
used
skyrocket.
F
I
think
we've
had
conversations-
and
it
was
raised
today,
both
by
myself
and
by
miss
diemer
as
well,
that
paper
bags
have
a
higher
environmental
cost
too,
and
so,
with
the
current
structure
of
this
fee
for
the
largest
grocery
stores
it
actually,
I
think
incentivizes
paper
bags
because
of
the
differential
split
and
so
when
chicago
saw
that
they
were.
You
know
seeing
an
uptick
in
consumption
of
both
paper
bags
and
a
massive
increase
in
the
purchase
of
plastic
garbage
bags.
F
You
walk
outside
the
store
you
put
it
into
a
garbage,
can
right
outside
of
it
with
the
best
of
intentions
and
then
perhaps
it
flows
out,
and
then
it
becomes
litter
and
those
are
the
bags
that
we
don't
want
to
see,
and
so
are
there
other
ways
to
go
out.
Go
at
this
from
a
holistic
perspective
to
reduce
the
consumption
of
unnecessary
bags
without
opening
the
door
to
this
transfer
of
resources
from
the
community
to
businesses
that
won't
address
litter
cleanup
that
won't
help
the
communities
that
are
that
need
it.
F
I
think
that's,
I
think
that's
the
bigger
consideration
with
the
fee
and
the
carve
out
is
is:
is
it
going
to
deliver
benefits
to
the
community
into
the
city
when
places
have
chosen
to
establish
fees
on
our
products?
While
we
don't,
we
don't
agree
with
that.
We
understand
that.
That's
something
that
places
will
choose
to
do
and
I
think
it's
important
that
those
fees
benefit
the
community.
That's.
B
That
answer
are
we,
you
know
another
kind
of
point
we've
grappled
with,
and
I
want
others
to
be
able
to
respond
to
what
we
just
heard
too
and
to
the
original
question
I
had,
but
one
thing
we've
grappled
with
is
you
know,
do
we?
Is
it
a
fee
on
plastic
and
a
theon
paper?
Is
it
a
ban
on
plastic
and
a
fee
on
paper?
Is
it
a
ban
on
both
right
like
that
is
the?
What
we're
trying
to
get
at
is
also
almost
social
science.
B
What
is
going
to
change
consumer
behavior
so
that
the
majority
of
people
are
just
not
choosing
to
take
a
bag
either
paying
for
it
or
or
for
free
for
free
from
the
store
that
they're
bringing
their
own
or
they're
going
without
a
bag?
And
so
I
guess
you
know
do
it.
Do
others
have
have
answers
on
that?
Whether
what
we've
seen
and
I
guess,
logan-
you
said
that
this
is
you
think
this
is
the
best
bill
possible?
B
I
don't
know
if
you
or
ashley
have
additional
thoughts
on
what
you've
seen
in
other
other
cities
around.
B
The
efficacy
of
a
fee
versus
a
a
ban
for
one
or
either
and
also
the
level
of
the
fee
right
now,
it's
a
minimum
15
cent.
The
assumption
is
again
it's
you
can't
mandate
all
behavior,
but
the
assumption
is
that
business
small
business
owners
could
choose
to
increase
a
fee
on
paper
to
be
a
level
that
would
they
they
would
then
recoup
to
cover
the
cost
of
the
increased
cost
of
paper
right
now
supply
chain
issues.
We
know
that
paper
is
also
expensive.
B
However,
we
think
that
also
them
competing
with
other
small
businesses.
They
might
not
want
to
increase
the
cost
on
paper,
the
fee
on
paper
to
skyrocketing
levels.
So
you
know
if
anyone
wants
to
kind
of
get
into
the
details
and
into
the
weeds
there,
a
fee
ban
levels
of
the
feed
that
kind
of
thing,
what
we've
seen
as
being
the
most
effective.
H
So
I'll
just
fairly
quickly
say
well,
first
of
all,
I'm
sure
you
know.
I
hope
that
my
speech
didn't
you
know
I
think,
zachary's,
probably
a
really
nice
person
and
I'm
not
saying
that
he's
sitting
here
lying.
I
just
think
you
know
the
numbers
aren't
from
what
we
see
are
not
coming
out
to
be
matching
what
he
says
so
zachary,
I
hope
nothing.
I
said
you
took
personally
I'm
sure,
you're
a
great
person
so
to
address
your
question.
H
The
there
are
two
life
cycles
to
a
bag.
Plastic
bags
are
worse
for
the
environment
after
checkout
paper
bags
are
worse
for
the
environment
before
checkout,
when
we
did
the
numbers
for
philadelphia,
we,
if
so
the
bill,
has
passed
in
philadelphia,
which
is
not
the
bill
that
we
had
hoped
would
pass
because
it
didn't
include
a
fee.
H
We
calculate
that
if
the
fees
so,
let's
assume
like
in
philadelphia
the
stores
go
from
spending
about
two
cents:
a
bag
to
about
10
cents,
a
bag
you're
looking
at
an
increased
cost
to
businesses
of
about
80
million
dollars
per
year.
This
is
in
philadelphia,
so
the
numbers,
I
think,
would
be
very
similar
in
pittsburgh.
H
If
you
just
do
a
bill
that
doesn't
include
a
fee
on
paper
bags,
you're
going
to
increase
the
cost
to
businesses,
you're
also
going
to
make
it
difficult
for
them
to
be
competitive
and
council
member
you
just
mentioned
you
know
if
next
door,
the
business
doesn't
charge
a
fee
and
you
are
forced
to
because
you
can't
afford
the
increase
you're
going
to
be
at
a
disadvantage.
So
the
best
thing
from
from
a
legislative
point
of
view,
is
to
take
that
ambiguity
and
confusion.
H
Out
of
the
of
the
mix,
I
would
put
a
fee
on
everything.
The
fee
is
the
crux
of
these
bills.
The
single
use
will
drop
if
you
put
an
appropriate
fee,
it's
called
the
pagovian
text,
just
make
people
aware
of
what
they're
getting
and
that
it
has
an
actual
price
right
now,
these
things
don't
have
a
real
price
to
people,
because
the
price
isn't
broken
out.
H
So
if
you,
if
you
don't
ban
plastic
and
you
just
put
a
a
fee
of
paper
and
plastic
as
long
as
the
fees
appropriate
and
it's
applied
to
everyone
equally,
then
I
think
you'll
get
the
goal
that
you
want.
The
reason
why
groups
like
ours
push
for
a
plastic
ban
is
because,
as
ashley
said,
you
know,
plastic
is
the
new
coal.
H
F
F
They
have
a
five
cent
fee
on
paper
and
plastic
bags
stores
are
able
to
keep
a
portion
of
that
two
cents
if
they
offer
a
five
cent
rebate
for
a
reasonable
bag,
brought
in
by
a
customer
based
on
the
research
from
the
dc
department
of
energy
environment,
a
survey
of
businesses
in
the
six
months
after
that
law
was
passed
that
ordinance
bag
distribution
was
reduced
by
50,
so
a
small
fee
on
paper
and
plastic
without
having
to
get
into
any
of
the
definitional
issues
of
what
is
blown
film
extrusion
can
still
address
the
concern
of,
as
has
been
discussed
today
about
you
know,
choosing
to
use
bags.
F
You
don't
need
we're
the
first
to
say
if
you
don't
need
a
bag,
don't
take
one
part
of
the
the
reason
for
that
was
there
were
concerns
about
baglet,
and
so
the
alice
ferguson
foundation,
which
monitors
waterways
in
the
district
of
columbia,
reported
after
the
implementation
of
this
policy,
a
72
reduction
against
72
reduction
and
a
number
of
plastic
bags
found
during
its
stream
cleanup
events.
F
F
The
cost
of
paper
bags
is
going
up
and
businesses
are
having
trouble,
complying
and
finding
bags
that
work,
and
I
think
you
know
that's
what
we've
seen
in
some
of
the
coverage
about
philadelphia's
bag
ban
as
well,
to
the
point
that
the
initial
sponsor
said
that
he
was
considering
reopening
discussion
on
that
matter,
and
so
I
think
you
know
dc's
example
chicago's
experience
with
this
and
then
montgomery
county
as
well.
F
There's,
there's
no
store
take
back
program
for
reusable
bags
to
be
recycled,
and
so
you
know
looking
at
that
as
an
alternative
approach
that
sort
of
balances.
All
those
concerns,
I
think,
is
worthwhile.
A
Okay,
I
want
to
get
into
a
couple.
B
Of
the
things
we
heard
there
sorry
technical
issues,
but
when
again
is
a
couple
things
we
heard
there
before
I
do.
I
wanted
to
give
someone
else
another
opportunity
to
respond
to
any
to
any
of
that
without
before
moving
on.
H
Yeah
I'll
just
say
quickly:
zac
zachary
mentioned
dc
dc's
bill
has
a
couple
of
issues,
so
I
wouldn't
necessarily
look
to
the
dc
per
se.
Montgomery
county
maryland
copied
theirs
and
fixed
some
of
those
issues.
H
Five
cent
fee
is
too
low
and
and
the
sixty
percent
reduction
that
that
niagara
mentioned
was
six
months
after
it's
since
gone,
the
number
has
gone
down,
so
you've
got
to
keep
the
fee
higher
five
cents
is
too
low,
that's
just
not
an
appropriate
dollar
amount
or
for
a
fee
to
change
people's
behavior
and
at
the
end
of
the
day
like
I
said,
this
is
a
behavioral
modification
piece
of
legislation.
E
And
my
idea
of
modification-
I'm
sorry
in
that
idea.
When
I
talk
to
residents
when
I
talk
to
pittsburghers
and
they
talk
about
their
problems
with
trash,
the
mindset
that
waste
doesn't
have
a
cost
is
one.
I
come
across
all
the
time
that
they
they
don't
understand,
why
getting
rid
of
something
should
incur
some
sort
of
cost
and
that's
how
illegal
dumping
happens
so
often,
and
things
like
that
and
talking
about
changing
people's
minds
through
these
little
things
by
fees.
It's
almost
like
a
little
reminder.
E
It's
like
this
means
something
that
it's
single
use
and
that
it's
going
to
cost
something
one
way
or
another.
It
was
just
hidden
from
you
before
and
baking
that
into
this
mindset
and
pushing
it
forward.
That's
that's
a
big
piece
of
why
I
really
like
the
the
higher
fees
as
opposed
to
something
a
little
smaller.
G
So
changing
the
language
and
changing
the
dynamic,
I
think,
is
a
really
important
part,
and
I
would
agree
that
the
higher
cost
probably
does
a
better
job
of
impacting
and
making
people
think
about
the
fact
that
it
costs
something
to
make
this
and
it
costs
something
to
get
rid
of
this
as
well.
At
the
end
of
the
day,.
B
So
when
it
comes
to
any
kind
of
fee
that
we're
talking
about
you
know,
one
thing
that
zach
mentioned
was
moving
this
to
moving
to
a
model
where
the
retailer
keeps
some
and
the
fee,
and
some
of
the
fee
actually
goes
back
to
whether
whatever
it
is,
the
city's
general
fund
or
a
special
trust
fund,
whatever
it
might
look
like,
but
that
the
retailer
doesn't
recoup
100
of
the
fee.
B
One
thing-
and
I
think
this
is
a
really
interesting
discussion
for
us
for
those
who
are
here
today,
because
on
the
one
hand,
you
could
see
where
the
retailer
would
need
to
recoup
100
of
that,
especially
for
paper
or
for
purchasing
a
certain
type
of
other
recyclable
bag,
that
they
would
like
to
hand
out
to
consumers
whatever
they
want
would
want
to
use
it.
B
G
I
think
some
people
might
be
wary
of
the
series,
the
city
recouping
some
portion
of
that
cost.
They
might
look
at
it
as
just
another
sneaky
way
for
us
to
to
increase
taxation
or
something
like
that,
but
I
think
that
it's
actually
kind
of
critical
that
the
city
does.
I
mean,
as
a
member
of
this
clean
pittsburgh
commission,
which
is
a
commission,
that's
solely
responsible
for
helping
to
clean
up
waste.
You
know
our
phone
lines.
311
are
continually
flooded
with
calls
where
people
need
us
to
come
out
and
to
help
them
clean
up.
G
You
know
issues
of
illegal
dumping,
basically,
where
and
and
there's
not
one
dump
site
that
we've
ever
cleaned
up.
That
didn't
include
a
great
deal
of
plastic,
plastic,
waste
and
plastic
bags.
These
things
cost
the
city
a
lot
of
money
annually.
You
know
thousands
of
dollars.
Some
of
it
comes
out
of
the
cpc
budget.
G
G
So
many
people
have
who
who
visit
our
beautiful
city?
You
know
the
city
of
pittsburgh,
often
especially
visitors,
have
the
impression
that
the
pittsburgh
is.
You
know,
sort
of
a
dirty
city
because
of
all
the
litter,
and
some
of
it
is.
You
know
some
of
the
legacy
of
being
a
smoky
city
because
of
all
the
steel
and
stuff
like
that.
But
even
now
they
come
to
the
city
and
they
remark
about
how
much
litter
there
is
on
the
ground.
And
I
think
that
there
has
to
be
something
that's
done
about
that.
G
F
I
guess
another
example,
I
would
point
to
is
what's
happening
right
now
in
virginia,
not
unlike
pennsylvania.
Until
recently,
localities
in
virginia
were
prohibited
from
regulating
plastic
bags
that
the
general
assembly
passed
a
law
granting
them
the
authority
to
establish
a
five-cent
tax.
It's
split
between
retailers
and
the
municipality.
F
The
money
that
goes
to
municipality
is
used
for
things
like
winter
cleanup,
education
about
recycling,
so
that
plastic
bags
are
recycled
properly
through
store,
take
back
programs
and
not
curbside,
and
then
also
for
funds
to
help
low-income
families
get
access
to
reusable
bags.
I
mean,
while,
as
an
industry,
you
know
we
don't
you
won't
be
surprised
to
hear,
say
we
don't
support
taxes
on
our
products,
but
that's
another
approach.
F
That's
out
there
that
other
places
have
looked
at
to
balance
that
it
balance
those
interests
and
arrive
at
something
that
again
can
get
to
the
root
of.
I
think
what
you're
trying
to
accomplish,
which
is
address
bag
usage
without
opening
the
door
to
some
of
the
unintended
consequences
and
behavioral
challenges
that
can
emerge
from
the
you
know,
a
structure
as
it
currently
is
with
15
cents
straight
to
the
retailer.
On
an
eight
stem
product
I
mean
that's
a
huge
spread
and
I
think
everyone
recognizes
that.
D
I
will
just
bring
up
a
few
points
that
I
don't
think
have
been
covered
yet
when
I'm
typically
in
favor
of
keeping
things
as
simple
as
possible
right,
and
I
think
that
suggesting
that
the
city
is
collecting
part
of
this
fee
will
add
an
extra
administrative
burden
on
the
city
that
also
costs
money
right,
and
so
I
think
it's
a
question
of
how
much
it
costs
to
collect
and
enforce
that
remittance
versus
how
much
the
city
is
actually
receiving
and
just
making
sure
that
enforcement
of
the
bill
in
general
is
as
simple
as
possible.
D
I
think
there
are
also
questions
about
whether
the
city
can
receive
that
money
and
then
use
it
for
things
that
are
not
directly
related
to
the
ordinance
itself
and
the
legality
of
that.
Certainly,
we
could
argue
that
litter
cleanup
is
very
connected
to
what
we're
talking
about,
but
I
think
that
would
require
some
extra
review.
H
I
would
second
what
ashley
just
said
and
I
think
the
best
model,
if
you
guys
so
the
administrative
costs
and
and
the
programs
might
be
difficult
philadelphia.
Originally,
when
council
member
sculla
and
I
were
working
to
get
this
bill
passed,
we
wanted
the
city
to
keep
some
of
it
and
the
retailer
to
keep
some
of
it,
and
I
have
a
spreadsheet
that
I
can
share
with
you
with
your
office.
That
shows
the
breakout
at
what
price
points
the
city
would
get
revenue
and
the
retailer
would
get
revenue.
H
I
think
that
the
best
bill,
if
you
guys
wanted
to
do
it,
would
collect
some
of
the
money.
It
is
an
administrative
hurdle
for
businesses
to
do
that.
So,
if
you
feel
comfortable
and
and
it's
not
a
burden
on
businesses
to
remit,
that's
back
to
the
city,
I
would
I
would
include
it
and
use
that
money.
But
with
the
caveat
what
ashley
said
you
know,
you
will
be
limited
in
some
of
the
ways
that
you
can
use
it.
If
it's
a
tax,
it's
going
to
be
a
lot
more
difficult.
H
If
it's
a
recruitment
of
costs
of
the
administration
of
the
program,
that's
different,
but
you
can
do
wonderful
things
with
this.
It's
really
it
would
be
millions
of
dollars
and
you
and
that,
along
with
the
savings
from
not
having
to
pick
up
all
of
this
litter
would
be
really
beneficial
for
these
communities
in
need.
So.
F
E
F
I
think,
given
everything
that's
going
on
with
businesses
asking
them
to
figure
out
which
bags
are
okay,
which
bags
are
not
which
bags
are
going
to
trigger
any
issues,
as
opposed
to
just
a
blanket
fee
across
the
board
on
disposable
bags,
whether
it's
paper
or
plastic,
I
think
that's
just
a
path
forward
that
balances
all
the
interest
discussed
today,
without
opening
the
door
to
the
challenges
and
it
can
fund
the
studies
to
take
a
look
at
how
it's
working.
B
An
issue
of
kind
of
the
businesses
and
being
able
to
being
able
to
implement
this
and
sort
of
the
the
burden
on
the
businesses.
That,
inevitably,
you
know,
regardless.
B
Not
it
will
be
an
extra
consideration
and
some
might
say,
burden
on
businesses,
especially
small
mom-and-pop
businesses.
That
said,
we
want
to
make
it
as
easy
as
possible,
so
so
zach,
you
just
said
you
listed
one
way
that
we
could
make
it
easier.
B
What
are
some
other
ways
that
people
know
of
that
have
seen
either
be
attempted
or
be
implemented
and
actually
effective
in
cities
and
in
counties
and
states
that
create
more
of
an
atmosphere
of
education
incentives
and
really
making
this
as
easy
as
possible
for
the
retailers
to
adjust
to
this
this
new
reality
as
possible
that
we
can
maybe
learn
from
zach.
You
just
gave
one
example:
are
there
others
that
people
have
seen?
F
At
the
risk
of
hogging
the
floor
I'll
point
again
to
chicago's
experience,
I
mean
everyone
knows
what
a
plastic
bag
is
and
what
a
paper
bag
is
and
saying
that
the
fee
has
to
be
axed
when
you
use
it
and
then
what's
going
to
happen
is
cashiers
are
going
to
start.
Having
a
conversation,
do
you
want
a
bag
and
when
you're
carrying
two
or
three
items,
you're
not
going
to
add
you
know
whatever
the
fee
ends
up
being
you're,
not
going
to
add
that
to
your
bill
and
that's
that's
where
the
reductions
come
from.
F
I
think
there's
a
way
to
go
about
this.
That
is
that
straightforward.
I
think
you
contrast
that
with
something
like
what
new
york
state
is
experiencing,
particularly
in
manhattan
right
now
they
have
a
ban
on
on
plastic
bags,
but
it's
almost
impossible
for
them
to
enforce
it.
F
Because
of
how
complicated
their
definitional
scheme
is-
and
you
know
I
have
a
brother
who
lives
in
tribeca-
and
you
know
he-
he
sees
plastic
bags
at
stores
there
and
and
that's
sort
of
the
challenge
is
that
you
know
compliance
is,
is
driven
by
the
stores
themselves,
who
are
sort
of
tasked
with
enforcing
it
absent.
F
You
know
constant
visit,
and
so
there's
not
anything
like
that
in
in
the
proposal
right
now,
but
if
there's
you
know
a
retailer
retained
portion,
that's
easy
to
administer
and
doesn't
require
trying
to
figure
out
what
bags
allowed
or
what
bag
isn't
allowed.
That's
a
way
to
drive
people
to
just
just
understand
that
you're
going
to
put
a
fee
on
on
disposable
bags
and
again
get
the
cashiers
to
have
those
conversations
about
you
know.
Do
you
want
this?
Do
you
need
this.
A
B
As
another
idea,
we
have
are
in
the
process
of
the
city
of
pittsburgh,
of
distributing
blue
bins
that
are
that
were
purchased
through
a
grant
to
every
single
customer
who
relies
on
the
city
service,
which
is
not
a
private
service.
It's
the
city
workers
who
pick
up
a
recycling
to
every
single
resident
who
realized
on
that
service
in
the
city,
removing
the
need
for
the
giant
eagle
blue
bags
that
people
had
traditionally
used
to
recycle
their
goods
and
and
now
being
able
to
rely
on
bins.
B
So
that's
one
example
of
us
getting
a
grant
non
taxpayer
dollars
that
are
going
towards
distribution
of
something
a
serve.
You
know
an
item
to
someone
who
can
help
with
that
will
help
augment
our
recycling
program
and
it
already
is
increasing
our
rates
and
one
idea
that
we
had
was
seeking
a
different
kind
of
grant
or
a
different
source
of
funding
to
be
able
to
purchase
reusable
bags,
ideally
made
from
recycled
material
or
recycled
plastic.
B
That
would
be
used
many
many
many
times
zap
to
your
point,
maybe
at
the
end
of
the
life
cycle,
you
know,
there's
a
question
about
what
we
do
with
them,
but
at
the
very
least,
that
person
would
have
that
bag
to
be
used.
Many
many
many
times,
hopefully
hundreds
of
times
and
and
or
also
combining
that
with
some
sort
of
the
bag
reusable
bag,
give
back
program
for.
B
D
B
A
great
answer
of
whether
either
of
those
things
have
been
proven
successful,
but
if
we
could
give
at
the
very
start,
every
resident
in
the
city
of
pittsburgh,
a
reusable
bag
and
those
who
might
not
need
them,
could
you
know
gift
there,
someone
else
and
and
then
getting
the
retailers?
Some?
B
You
know
a
starter
packet
of,
say:
50,
reusable
bags
to
give
out
also,
ideally
not
made
from
cotton,
which
is
a
higher
impact
on
our
environment
and
climate
impact,
but
made
from
some
sort
of
recycled
material
to
be
able
to
give
out
to
customers
just
to
start
to
get
them
over
that
initial
hump
of
of
needing
to
bring
their
own
bags
thoughts
about
that
kind
of
system.
That
kind
of
light
touch
program
before
we
actually
start
to
enforce,
which
I
want
to
get
to
enforcement
in
a
second.
But.
G
Well,
if
I
can
chime
in,
I
think
that's
really
actually
an
interesting
program,
and
it
actually
is
reminiscent
of
the
share.
The
share
table
program
like
they
have
at
elementary
schools,
they're,
actually
a
lot
of
different
places
where
you
know,
if
you're
not
going
to
eat
your
apple,
you
can
actually
put
it
on
the
share
table
for
somebody
else
to
come
and
they
can
take
the
apple
to
either
eat
it
that
day
or
they
can
actually
even
take
it
home
with
them.
G
You
know
to
eat
it
at
a
later
date,
so
maybe
another
opportunity
for
us
to
be
able
to
have
sort
of
a
share
table
methodology
for
clean
bags
for
people
who
want
to
donate.
One
of
the
challenges
right
now
is
sort
of
overcoming
the
hump
of
covid,
basically
and
sort
of
the
trust
of
something
coming
from
somebody
else's
household.
G
But
it
is
something
that
I
think
is
actually
pretty
interesting
and
something
that's
worth
looking
into,
especially
at
some
retailers
where
people
you
know
if
they
forget
their
bag
or
something
like
that,
if
they
had
sort
of
that
initial
stock
of
either
city
supplied
baths,
and
hopefully
at
some
other
point,
you
know
if
you
have
some
extra
ones
that
you
want
to
drop
off
at
a
retailer
for
somebody
else
to
use
later,
having
that
circulation
of
being
able
to
borrow
a
bag.
G
Essentially
until,
like
your
next
trip,
I
think,
is
an
actually
pretty
good
and
interesting
idea.
That's
worth
exploring.
D
I
also
wanted
to
add
back
to
zachary's
point
earlier
about.
You
know,
helping
retailers
understand
the
ordinance
there's
so
much
that
we
can
do
in
between
the
passage
of
a
bill
and
the
actual
implementation
and
enforcement.
There
are
opportunities
to
create
resources
for
smaller
businesses
that
explain
very
clearly
what
we're
talking
about
here.
D
H
So,
as
zachary
is
talking
more
I'm
agreeing
with
him
more
and
more,
I
I
think
that
so
a
couple
of
things
in
the
philadelphia
bill,
I
wrote
in
the
the
language
about
retailers
must
pro
must
put
a
sign
up,
because
I
knew
philadelphia
would
not
be
a
good
partner
in
educating
people.
We
met
with
the
city
a
number
of
times
about
and
they're
like.
How
are
we
gonna
do
this?
H
This
is
really
hard,
so
I
think
pushing
that
to
the
retailer
and
like
it's
a
little
sign
everywhere,
you
know:
okay,
there's
going
to
be
a
bag,
there's
going
to
be
a
back
feed,
there's
going
to
be
a
back
fee.
Every
time
you
go
to
a
store.
You
see
that
sign.
That's
the
education,
I
think
at
the
point
of
checkout,
that's
the
best
and
most
cost
effective
way
to
do
it.
It's
really
hard.
H
I
mean
ashley's
right,
you
can
do
different
things
but
to
reach
the
mass
audience,
but
press
also
you're
going
to
get
press
on
this.
You
already
have
and
people
are
going
to
see
it
on
their
local
news.
They're
going
to
see
it
and
you
know
whatever
you
know
online
or
wherever
hey
pittsburgh
is
doing
a
bag
fee,
but
one
thing
we
we
had
bannered
around
a
bit
in
philly
was
so
people's
gas,
well
pgw
frost,
but
people's
gas.
H
They
know
who
the
low
income
recipient
people
on
their
program
who
have
low
income
recipients
they
they
could
send
out
a
voucher
to
those
people
and
say
hey
redeem
this
at
the
store
for
your
reusable
bag.
I
don't
think
sending
a
bag
to
everyone
in
pittsburgh
is
is
a
great
idea.
I
think
you
could
spend
that
money
and
and
and
that
program
it
would
be
kind
of
difficult
to
administer.
I
would
just
say:
hey
the
people
on
these
programs
from
our
utilities
send
a
coupon
out
to
them
for
a
re.
H
They
can
redeem
this
at
any
store
and
then
the
store
sends
it
to
the
city
or
whatever,
and
you
you
send
them
15
cents
or
or
whatever.
I
think
that
program
would
probably
be
a
lot
more
bet,
but
would
be
better
and
more
targeted,
and
you
know
that
zach
is
right.
New
york's
law
is
a
failure.
It
is,
there
are
plastic
bags
everywhere,
and
one
of
the
reasons
is
so
many
municipalities
are
moving
to
ban
plastic
and
paper
bags.
H
That
paper
is
this:
prices
have
skyrocketed
for
paper
bags,
they're
very
difficult
to
get
for
retailers
right
now,
so
a
lot
of
the
stores
they
want
to
comply,
but
they
can't
afford
it
and
they
can't
even
get
the
bags
so
zach's
point
about
the
new
york
city.
Failure,
I
think,
is
accurate
and
we're
seeing
that
elsewhere
throughout
the
country.
B
So
I
just
wanted
to
pick
up
on
the
utility
program.
That's
really
interesting
point
and
a
version
of
the
program
or
the
idea
that
we
had
come
up
with
ourselves,
which
is:
can
we
take
either
residents
or
businesses
that
are
situated
within
cdbg
eligible
meaning
block,
grant
eligible
areas,
geographic
areas
of
the
city
and
really
focus
on
a
distribution
program?
Just
there
or
your
your
ideal
idea
of
the
utility
assistance
program,
whether
it's
which
we
have
for
people's
gas
for
our
water
and
sewer
authority
and
for
duquesne
light
or
main
electricity
distribute
distributor?
B
All
three
of
those
have
their
own
utility
programs.
In
addition
to
some
of
the
programs
that
were
set
up
through,
say,
action,
housing
and
the
county
or
our
city's
ura
program?
Ura
urban
redevelopment
authority,
as
we
we've
they've
kind
of
been
a
conduit
for
distribution
of
of
cova
grants.
So
lots
of
different
conduits
and
ideas
for
a
way
to
include
for
targeted
audiences,
a
voucher
or
a
way
to
receive
that
free,
reusable
bag
or
or
or
two.
H
H
That
that
you
and
afton
mentioned,
I
love
that
idea
too.
B
And
I
think
hopefully
this
is
helpful
for
those
watching
at
home
as
well
and
in
the
future,
and
that's
about
enforcement.
So
you
know,
enforcement
has
is
tricky
for
a
lot
of
reasons.
One
is,
of
course
we
would
prefer
not
to
have
to
enforce.
We
prefer
for
all
businesses
to
be
able
to
understand
it.
Comply
have
the
resources
and
ability
to
just
comply
and
enforcement
is
is
a
breeze.
We
know
that's
not
necessarily
going
to
be
the
case.
However.
B
That
said,
I
think
we
want
to
get
to
a
point
where
we're
really
starting
with
education,
starting
with
incentives,
starting
with
just
a
friendly
touch
and
then
moving
to
enforcement
as
necessary,
ratcheting
it
up
as
necessary.
You
know
we
don't
have
a
natural
place
and
I'll
just
be
honest
in
the
city
of
pittsburgh.
We
don't
have
a
natural
place
for
this
to
live.
We
are
still
in
conversations
about.
Is
this
through
our
inspections
department,
our
permits,
licenses
and
inspections
department?
B
Is
this
going
to
be
conducted
by
people
who
would
be
hired
to
work
for
environmental
services,
where
some
of
that
already
does
happen
when
it
comes
to
residential
or
commercial
trash
violations
or
waste
related
violations?
Is.
A
B
Going
to
live
somewhere
sustain
a
build
sustainability
or
resilience,
or
do
we
started
our
own
office,
our
own
new
department,
to
deal
with
this,
so
questions
remain
for
sure,
but
just
kind
of
open
ask
an
open-ended
question
around
enforcement
models
that
are
paired
with
education
models
that
work
best,
and
one
idea
I
want
to
throw
in
there
for
consideration-
is
the
way
that
the
city
count.
The
allegheny
county
health
department
dealt
with
businesses
around
covert
restrictions
and
regulations
was
actually
a
self-certification
process
where
a
business
could
self-certify.
B
Basically,
that
demonstrates
the
county
that
they're
aware
of
this
program.
They're
self-certifying,
you
start
enforcement
with
those
who
have
failed
to
self-certify,
and
then
you
move
on
from
there
rather
than
starting
elsewhere.
You
start
with
those
who
have
failed
to
self-certify.
B
I
understand
self-certification
can
come
with
its
own
challenges
or
its
own
issues,
but
it's
one
idea
to
start
to
whittle
down
the
number
of
businesses
that
you're
actually
at
least
targeting
at
first
for
enforcement
and
additional
education.
So
thoughts
about
that
or
just
you
know,
any
other
enforcement
pitfalls
or
or
successes.
F
So
I
guess
that
that's
where
the
difference
between
the
across-the-board
fee
versus
some
type
of
banning
fee
structure
comes
in
and
across
the
board
fee
on
paper
and
plastic
that
allows
some
re.
Some
of
the
the
fee
to
be
retained
by
the
retailer
provides
an
incentive
for
for
them
to
be
charging
the
fee,
so
they
can
defray
the
cost
of
the
products
that
they're
already
purchasing
and
then
obviously
that,
however,
that
would
be
remitted
back
to
the
city
provides
a
data
flow
as
well
again.
F
At
the
end
of
the
day,
the
design
of
the
fee
is
to
have
folks
charging
the
fees
they
have.
The
conversation.
Do
you
need
a
bag
whereas
trying
to
have
people
checking
on
which
stores
are
using?
Which
bags
but
makes
sort
of
a
game
you
know,
creates
the
potential
for
a
game
of
whack-a-mole,
not
unlike
what
has
been
happening
in
in
new
york
city-
and
I
think
that's
sort
of
the
consideration
too
is-
is
that
these
processes
can
evolve
over
time.
F
For
example,
washington
state
has
a
has
a
back
band
that
combines
a
ban
on
engaged
bags,
but
they
allow
for
reusable
film
bags
and
a
fee
and
over
time
it
requires
them
to
have
more
recycled
content,
and
then
that
fee
goes
up
later
on
as
well,
and
so
it
doesn't
have
to
be
all
done
at
once.
You
can
start
with
the
fee,
see
how
that
does
about
reducing
consumption.
Is
that
delivering
what
the
city
needs
to
fund
important
programs?
H
I
I
don't
want
to
hug
the
floor,
so
if
someone
wants
to
jump
in
I
I
do
want
to
say
something,
but
if
someone
wants
to
jump
in
and
go
go
for
it,
okay
I'll
go,
I
think
most.
I
agree
with
most
of
what
zach
zachary
just
said.
So
I
think
keeping
this
simple
is
going
to
be
the
best
way
to
enforce
it.
It's
going
to
be
hard
to
enforce
it.
H
H
That
is
the
most
important
part,
so
don't
get
rid
of
that
don't
put
in
exemptions
for
low
income,
because
how
are
you
gonna
then
enforce
that
you
know
it's
keep
it
as
simple
as
possible,
and
the
bottom
line
is
keep
the
fee
in
there
for
everyone
on
almost
everything
the
nice
thing
about
you
know
and
the
environmental
community
went
back
and
forth
a
lot
on.
H
Do
we
do
we
banned
plastic
or
just
put
a
fee
on
it
because,
as
I
said,
and
as
as
ashley
mentioned,
paper
has
an
environmental
cost
and
zac
zach
also
mentioned
paper's,
got
an
environmental
cost
and
so
do
other
other
banks
have
an
even
deeper
environmental
cost.
We've
gone
back
and
forth.
I
don't
know
if
there's
really
a
great
answer
for
enforcement.
I
think
I'm
going
to
disagree
surprisingly
with
zach
on
this.
I
think
it's
easier.
If
you
ban
all
plastic
because
then
the
inspector
whoever's
going
in
can
just
see.
H
Okay,
there
is
a
plastic
bag
here,
you're
in
violation,
whereas
it's
hard
to
see
if
they're
charging
a
fee
for
all
of
the
bags.
So
if
it's
just
the
store
walks
in
the
inspector
walks
in
they
see,
there's
a
plastic
bag
boom
violation.
If
they
don't
see
a
paper
bat
or
they
don't
see
a
plastic
bag,
then
they
can
follow
up
and
are
you
charging
people
dc
has
secret
shoppers,
and
I
know
a
lot
of
other
municipalities
do
too
that
worked
really
well
and
it
was
fairly
low
cost.
H
Even
you
know,
new
york
city
has
a
report
hotline
there's
this
in
new
york
city.
There's
this
idling
provision
that
allows
citizens
to
video
an
idling
vehicle,
send
it
into
dep
and
they
get
a
portion
of
the
fine
in
philly.
I
tried
to
push
for
that.
So
if
you
see
a
store,
that's
in
violation
of
the
bag
law,
you
can
report
it
to
a
certain.
You
know
you,
you
put
it
into
the
website.
You
put
your
information,
then
the
inspector
goes
to
that
place.
H
If
they
issue
a
ticket,
you
get
25
percent
of
the
ticket.
I
think
that
model
is
the
best
model
going
in
america,
probably
the
world
right
now,
because
it
has
changed
in
new
york
city.
The
idling
violations
have
gone
up
by
about
five
thousand
percent,
because
citizens
were
allowed
to
do
it
so
allowing
citizens
to
be
part
of
this
and
to
recoup
some
of
the
money.
That's
gotten
from
the
the
municipality
for
the
fines,
I
think
is,
is
a
great
model,
but
enforcement
will
be
difficult.
Keep
it
simple.
G
I
would
also
agree
that
simple
is
better
and
that's
something
that
we'll
also
need
to
do
is
make
sure
that
we
talk
to
our
judicial
officials
about
exac
how
to
enforce
it.
One
thing
that
we've
come
across
with
doing
the
enforcement
of
illegal
dumping,
is
you
know
how
to
make
sure
that
you
know
after
you
go
through
the
work
of
doing
all
the
enforcement?
You
know
when
it
hits
the
judge's
desk.
You
know
that
cases
are
carried
out
and
what
the
penalty
is
going
to
be.
G
Ultimately,
after
after
somebody
is
caught,
and
what
kind
of
evidence
is
going
to
be
required
to
prove
that
they
committed
it
in
the
first
place
to
make
it
worth
them
actually
been
trialling
the
case.
So
that's
just
something
another
part
of
it
that
we
just
need
to
make
sure
that
we
talk
about
in
this
conversation
as
to
how
to
enforce
it,
and
you
know
how
what
do
we
do
at
the
end
after
a
person's
been
caught,
you
know
making
sure
that
we
close
that
loop
and
it's
not.
E
Without
president
in
pittsburgh
we
have
had
for
illegal
dumping,
a
trust
fund
where,
when
somebody
reported
illegal
dumping-
and
we
found
the
person
who
did
it,
they
would
get
a
portion
of
it.
A
portion
of
it
would
go
into
a
trust
fund
with
the
city.
It
was
always
just
such
a
problem
of
catching
them,
because
it's
somebody
who
goes
out
in
the
middle
of
nowhere
throws
it
and
they're
gone,
whereas
here
it
would
be
somebody
who
has
plastic
bags
essentially
in
their
hands
at
work
where
you
just
walk
in
it's
like
yes,
there.
E
It
is
so
it
would
be
a
very
different
situation
about
following
through
where
we
struggled
with
on
illegal
dumping
in
the
past.
But
it's
definitely
something
that
has
been
on
the
books
here
and
and
not.
You
know,
outside
the
realm
of
possibility.
H
Same
as
philly
for
illegal
dumping
provides
that
citizen
the
incentive
to
do
it
and
and
they're
your
they're,
your
inspectors.
Oh,
I
also
meant
to
say:
if
you're
going
to
have
the
city
inspecting,
I
think
it
should
be
the
the
whoever's
in
charge
of
going
into
the
store
anyway,
don't
add
an
additional
burden
to
an
agency,
but
if
the
store's
going
into
like
health,
if
they're
going
into
check
to
make
sure
there's
not
a
cockroach
infestation,
you
know.
Add
that
add
that
to
the
checklist.
D
I
would
agree,
there's
a
huge
opportunity
for
residents
to
kind
of
lead
the
way
in
some
of
the
enforcement
and
play
a
role
in
this
and
have
someone
at
the
city
be
the
bottom
line
in
auditing
those
reports
and
going
back
to
the
question
of
fee
versus
ban.
I
just
I
want
to
get
back
to
our
original
point
here.
D
We
know
that
plastic
bags
after
checkout
are
the
worst
option
for
our
environment.
We
know
that
they
are
persisting
in
our
communities
and
in
our
waterways
in
our
environment,
in
a
way
that
paper
bags
simply
aren't.
So
I
would
say
that
the
ban
is
still
a
really
important
element
of
this
right.
We
want
to
reduce
as
much
plastic
as
possible.
I
also
think
we
can't
underestimate
people's
ability
to
understand
this.
It.
It's
pretty
simple
right.
People
know
what
a
single-use
plastic
bag
is.
D
We
can
you
know
we
can
try
to
make
the
tightest
definition
possible,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
people
know
the
intent
and
the
purpose
of
this
law.
I
think
that
the
ordinance
that
you've
put
together
councilwoman
is
very
clear,
and
so
yes,
let's
not
underestimate
people
the
fee
on
paper-
is
a
backstop
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
replacing
every
single
plastic
bag
with
another
paper
bag
right.
We
still
want
to
change.
D
F
Obviously,
a
slightly
different
perspective
on
that
new
jersey,
as
some
of
you
all
may
know,
banned
both
paper
and
plastic
bags.
As
part
of
a
hearing
that
was
held
last
week,
retailers
started
to
express
concerns
that
consumers
were
now
treating
the
reusable
plastic
bags
as
single
use,
particularly
for
things
like
home
delivery
of
groceries
and
so
in
the
interest.
F
You
know
that
sort
of
gets
back
to
the
baseline
of
keep
it
simple,
where
a
fee
on
everything
provides
the
flexibility
that
small
stores
need
to
comply
with
this
by
allowing
them
to
use
an
option
that
might
be
more
affordable
both
to
them
and
other
shoppers,
while
avoiding
the
complexities
of.
What's
the
right
definition.
F
New
jersey's
law
has
a
very
clear
definition
of
what
is
and
what
is
not,
but
you
still
have
the
human
element
of
people
using
products
in
an
unsustainable
way
and
if
no
matter
what
the
product
is
no
matter,
what
its
environmental
profile
is,
if
you're
not
using
it
in
a
sustainable
manner,
that's
going
to
have
consequences
down
the
road
as
well,
and
so
I
think
that's
an
important
sort
of
that's
where
the
balance
comes
into.
F
All
of
this
and
it's
sort
of
competing
interest,
and
I
think
for
everything
that
stores
are
facing
right
now,
really
the
shoppers
are
facing.
Keeping
it
simple
at
the
outset
makes
a
lot
of
sense
for
the
city
of
pittsburgh
to
address
bag
usage
without
opening
the
door
to
sort
of
the
unintended
consequences
that
can
come
from.
You
know
from
policy.
B
B
I'm
glad
that
we
had
some
differing
opinions
here,
because
it
always
helps
to
sort
of
suss
it
out,
and
I
appreciate
that
you
know
there
are
a
lot
of
different
thoughts,
motivations
opinions
on
how
we
can
you
know,
make
the
best
possible
bill.
Ultimately,
you
know
working
like
with
my
colleagues
to
do
so
and
what
I
can
say
for
sure
is
that
we
will
aim
for
the
best
possible
bill
and
the
best
possible
implementation.
B
It's
probably
not
going
to
be
perfect
right
at
the
outset,
so,
just
like
every
legislation
that
has
passed
in
the
city
of
pittsburgh
and
elsewhere,
other
levels
of
government
you
iterate
over
time-
you
make
it.
B
You
tailor
it
for
the
level
of
government
and
the
particular
area
that
you're
in
and
you
make
it
the
best
as
possible
over
a
period
of
time,
and
I
think
that's
what
we'll
strive
to
do,
we'll
make
it
as
best
as
we
can
now,
knowing
what
we
know,
we'll,
probably
learn
a
whole
lot
in
the
first
year
and
then
every
year
from
then
on
so
improve
upon
it.
D
B
Go
but
this
has
been
incredibly
helpful
and
I
just
wanted
to
give
the
opportunity
for
any
last
burning
comments
that
people
had
that
they
really
really
wanted
to
get
in,
but
that
I
didn't
ask:
is
there
anything
out
there
that
someone
wanted
to
to
add
into
the
conversation.
F
F
One
thing
just
does
come
to
mind
is
that
this
bag,
which
is
a
t-shirt
style
bag,
the
same
as
a
as
what
you
would
call
a
thin
film
bag
for
an
inspector
to
go
in
the
store
and
tell
the
difference
at
a
glance
between
this,
which
would
be
allowed
under
the
blown
film
extrusion
definition
versus
a
film
bag
is
very,
very
difficult
and
sort
of
just
speaks
to
the
interest
of
simplicity.
But
ultimately,
just
thank
you
again
for
having
us
and
for
letting
us
share
our
perspective
and
experience.
Thank
you
very
much.
E
I'd
like
to
say
that
I
think
that
it's
great
that
we're
all
thinking
about
how
businesses
are
doing
right
now
about
our
current
struggles,
but
I
I
want
to
add
to
the
plate
that
this
should
be
temporary
right,
like
the
inflation
we've
seen
is
obviously
from
covet
covet
is
a
temporary
thing.
We
will
get
back
to
a
place
where
these
things
are
stronger
and
we
don't
want
to
underestimate
everybody
thinking
they
can't
handle
this.
They
handle
so
many
things
all
the
time
and
anything
else
that's
put
in
front
of
them.
E
They
handle
that
as
well.
I,
I
believe,
they're
a
lot
more
resilient
than
a
lot
of
people
want
to
give
them
credit
for
and
that's
I
had
something
else,
but
I
forget
it,
but
thank
you.
D
H
Yeah,
this
was
the
best
discussion
that
I've
from
a
city
council
point
of
view
that
that
I've
been
on.
So
you
did
a
great
job,
and
the
panel,
I
think,
was
great.
The
the
you
know
this
is,
as
I
said,
a
business
friendly
bill.
Reducing
a
businesses
costs.
You
know,
we've
got
we've
in
our
society,
we've
become
so
accustomed
to
taking
these
things
unnecessary
things
from
businesses.
H
When
you
go
to
a
store
and
you
get
a
slice
of
pizza,
they
put
it
on
a
plate
in
a
box,
then
you
walk
out
and
you
throw
the
plate
in
the
trash
in
the
box
and
the
trash
and
that
business
just
spent
25
to
30
cents.
For
you
to
put
it
right
in
the
trash,
we're
reducing
business
costs
by
reducing
single-use
products
and
acclimating
our
society
and
changing
modifying
people's
behaviors
to
bring
your
own
or
don't
don't,
if
you
don't
need
it,
don't
take
it
so
you're
on
the
right
path.
A
Well,
I
really
want
to
thank
you
all,
and
so,
thanks
to
all
of
our
speakers,
thank
you
to
my.
B
Chief
of
staff,
emily
younin
for
doing
the
legwork
to
really
set
this
up
and
coordinate
all
of
this,
our
clerk's
office
for
for
for
all
of
their
support,
our
asl
interpreters
and,
last
but
not
least,
our
cable
bureau
for
making
sure
that
this
is
live
streamed
on
youtube
and
and
on
the
city,
the
city
channel,
website,
granicus,
and
that
can
be
viewed
later
on
for
anyone
who's
interested
in
the
topic.
So
big
thanks
to
everyone,
we
will
continue
to
discuss
this
we'll
continue
to
work
on
this
into
the
new
year.