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From YouTube: Meet The People: Dan Friedson
Description
On the 2022 season-premiere episode of Meet The People, Dan Friedson talks about his new role with Pittsburgh City Council, why he wanted to work for the city again, and what he has in common with Tom Hagen.
A
A
Hello
again,
everybody
welcome
once
again
to
another
edition
of
meet
the
people.
This
is
the
2022
season,
premiere
episode
here
at
the
beautiful
city
council
chambers
in
the
city
county
building
in
downtown
pittsburgh.
My
name
is
david
finer,
I'm
the
communication,
technology
manager
of
the
city
of
pittsburgh's
department
of
innovation
and
performance.
Today
I
have
somebody
who
was
here
for
a
while
then
left
and
now
he's
back
again
a
perfect
person
to
have
on.
A
I
believe
they
call
that
that
kind
of
person
a
boomeranger
and
I
may
be
mispronouncing
that,
but
I'm
not
sure
dan
frieden,
is
with
us
dan.
Thank
you
for
joining
us.
Thanks
for
having
me
david.
I
appreciate
it.
So,
let's
start
off
what
is
your
title
now
that
you're
back
with
the
city
solicitor.
B
No,
I'm
not
the
final
say
we
still
work
in
conjunction
with
the
law
department.
The
law
department
represents
both
the
executive
and
the
legislative
branch,
the
municipal
corporation
for
the
city
of
pittsburgh.
So
when
it
comes
to
the
city
as
a
whole,
the
law
department
is
still
the
city's
lawyer
and
council
intensive
nothing
changes
there.
It's
just
that.
They
also
now
have
their
own
under
the
homeworld
charter,
they're
allowed
to
have
their
own
solicitor
just
like
the
controller
has
his
or
her
own
solicitor.
B
So
I
basically
help
with
like
legislative
drafting
matters,
assist
with
some
parliamentarian
procedures
and
provide
you
know,
counsel
as
needed
from
time
to
time
and
there's
many
times.
As
I'm
sure
you
know,
this
is
a
new
position,
and
so
things
are
still
in
process.
We
haven't
even
affirmed
our
new
city
solicitor.
Yet
so
we
haven't
worked
out
all
the
rules
of
engagement
about
how
we'll
work
together,
but
the
intention
is
that
we
would
work
together.
B
Exactly
just
you.
B
Are
in
a
homonym
festival
at
this
point?
Yes,.
A
Yes,
the
council's
council
council.
So
let's
go
farther
back
first
and
start
off
a
little
bit
of
background
on
you,
where
you're
from
how'd.
You
get
here
that
kind
of
stuff
sure.
B
I
grew
up
in
kansas
city
until
I
was
about
16
years
old
and
then
we,
my
dad,
got
a
new
job,
and
so
we
had
to
move
to
st
louis.
So
I
had
to
switch
up
kind
of
my
entire
social
network
and
circle
and
all
that
fun
stuff,
and
that
was
actually
a
great
experience
for
me.
I
enjoyed
kind
of
the
fresh
new
start
and
I
was
glad
I
had
that
experience.
B
While
I
was
still
in
high
school,
because
by
the
time
I
left
home
and
went
on
to
you,
know,
college
and
law,
school
and
lived
in
other
cities,
I'm
just
comfortable
with
the
idea
of
being
a
stranger
in
a
strange
land
for
a
time
and
looking
at
the
community
and
getting
to
understand
what
the
community
wants
to
become
what
the
community
is.
B
Even
though
I've
lived
in
pittsburgh
longer
than
I've
lived
in
any
other
city,
my
entire
life,
it's
a
rather
provincial
town
and
if
you
can't
articulate
where
you
went
to
high
school
here,
you're
kind
of
always
regarded
as
a
bit
of
an
outsider,
which
makes
it
hard,
sometimes,
especially
since
I've
decided
to
raise
my
family.
My
my
daughter
here
and
my
family
and
I've
made
this
our
home,
but
we'll
never
always
feel
like.
Like
we've
got
the
inside
track.
B
You
know
we'll
always
kind
of
be
a
little
bit
on
the
outside
looking
in
and
that
will
change
over
time,
as
as
the
population
increases
here
in
pittsburgh
and
as
our
industry
and
our
economy
starts
to
evolve
in
the
direction,
it
seems
to
be
evolving
in
we'll
probably
get
some
new
faces
in
here,
and
it
won't
be
quite
the
same.
Maybe
15
years.
A
B
Right
there
was
a
time
when
I
went
so
I
you
know
we
moved
to
st
louis
and
I
had
a
great
time
in
st
louis
and
I
went
to
journalism
school
in
indiana,
bloomington
indiana
and
then
I
came
to
law
school
here.
B
There's
a
woman
named
freddie
miller,
who
was
just
happened
to
be
in
bloomington.
She
was
the
recruiter
for
the
university
of
pittsburgh
school
of
law.
She
was
just
very
convincing.
I
was
like
I
have
to
go
to
pittsburgh.
She
did
a
great
job
selling
pittsburgh
to
me
back
in
1995
or
so
so
I
did
I
came
here.
I
went
to
school
here.
B
I
lived
in
wilkinsburg
and
I
started
to
get
involved
in
community
development.
While
I
was
in
law
school
in
wilkinsburg,
I
was
working
with
my
landlord
about
you,
know:
tax
abatement
programs
and
we're
dealing
with
open
air
drug
traffic
markets
on
penn
avenue.
At
the
time,
pittsburgh
was
a
very
different
place
in
the
90s
and
then
I
wanted
to
work
here
in
city
hall.
This
was
always
my
dream.
You
know
when
I
was
a
little
kid.
B
My
mom
used
to
always
say
why
you
always
fighting
city
hall
dan,
I'm
like
I'm,
not
fighting
city
hall,
trying
to
get
a
job
there.
I
want
to
work
in
city
hall.
One
day
I
just
feel
like
democracy
is
best
represented
in
municipal
government.
That
civil
society
is
best
chance,
for
expression
is
on
the
local
government
level,
not
so
much
as
easily
achieved
on
a
state
or
national
level.
B
So
I
applied
for
a
job
here
in
the
90s
and
they're
like
you're,
not
from
here
right
and
then
ethically.
It
made
more
sense
if
I
was
going
to
do
community
development
to
kind
of
start
with
a
place
or
a
community
that
claimed
me
because
I'd
moved
around
so
much
there
weren't
a
lot
of
communities
that
claimed
me
as
their
own,
but
st
louis
has
definitely
claimed
me
as
their
own.
So
I
went
back
to
st
louis
and
started
my
career
there,
and
I
was
really
interested
in
home
ownership.
B
I
was
interested
in
wealth
transfer
in
the
african
american
and
refugee
communities.
In
st
louis
I
had
a
business
partner
who
was
like
we
should
do
this
program
called
with
ownership
wealth
and
the
black
caucus
was
funding
it.
The
national
black
caucus
and
he's
like
you're
going
on
the
road,
we're
going
to
send
you
all
over
america
and
you're
going
to
talk
to
law
schools
and
convince
them
that
they
should
provide
legal
services
for
free
to
homeowners
so
that
they
can
keep
the
family
home
or
pass
the
legacy
on
to
other
generations.
B
B
I
had
to
raise
my
own
money
for
the
clinic,
and
then
I
had
to
apply
for
my
job
again
after
I
secured
the
money
and
won
my
job
both
times,
and
I
did
that
for
six
years.
So
my
job
here
initially.
What
brought
me
back
to
pittsburgh
was
this
opportunity
to
make
my
alma
mater
a
better
place
that
provide
clinical
legal,
real-life
experience,
developing
lawyering
skills,
having
clients
talking
to
clients,
consulting
clients,
doing
client
work
so
and
it
was
free.
B
So,
as
you
can
imagine,
we
were
busy
and
the
class
was
always
full.
I
did
that
for
about
six
years
and
then
I
just
decided
that
I
wasn't
growing
enough
as
a
person
doing
the
same
thing
kind
of
over
and
over
again,
so
I
decided
to
get
into
code
enforcement
since
blight
was
always
a
target
of
mine
to
ameliorate.
B
I
thought
well
I'll,
go
get
my
license
and
see
if
I
can't
become
a
code
enforcement
official
and
lo
and
behold,
the
borough
of
wilkinsburg
hired
me
to
be
director
of
code
enforcement
and
director
zoning,
so
that
was
my
first
government
job
was
doing
that
stuff
for
wilkinsburg,
and
while
I
was
there
again,
I
had
applied
for
a
job
to
be
a
solicitor
here
at
the
city,
and
I
guess
my
resume
was
still
on
file
and
lourdes
sanchez
ridge
had
given
me
a
call.
He
said
we
have
an
opening.
B
You
should
apply,
and
so
I
did
and
the
time
we
lived
in
wilkinsburg
and
when
they
offered
the
job
they're
like
you
know,
if
you
have
to
be
willing
to
move
to
the
city,
and
so
we
did
we,
we
upended
our
lives
and
we
moved
to
the
city
of
pittsburgh
and
I
started
working
in
the
law
department
under
lourdes
again
for
about
five
years,
and
that
was
a
great
experience.
B
I
had
a
we
had
a
baby.
I
have
a
daughter
now,
thank
you,
and
you
know
a
few
months
after
she
came
into
our
lives.
I
was
like
okay,
I
need
to
go
home
now
and
just
really
focus
in
on
being
a
dad,
and
it's
not
hard,
I'm
totally
in
love
with
my
daughter.
She
makes
it.
She
makes
it
hard
to
leave
the
house,
I'm
totally
in
love
with
my
wife
as
well,
and
she
works
from
home.
B
So
now
I've
got
a
whole
different
dynamic
now,
and
it's
still
interesting
because
you
know
covet
happened
right
after
we
had
our
daughter
and
we
socially
isolated
for
two
years
or
so
so
I'm
still
I'm
still
getting
used
to
like
being
out
in
the
world
and
getting
a
sandwich
down
the
street.
So
this
is
too
close
is
what.
B
I
mean
I've
gotten
used
to
it,
but
yeah
you
hit
me
up
five
months
ago,
I've
been
like
no
we're
not
doing
this
interview
but
vaccinated
and
making
the
adjustments
and
reducing
my
anxiety
about
being
back
out
here
in
the
in
the
world
at
large.
A
So
let's
talk
about
this
job
that
you
have
now
with
the
city.
You
already
mentioned
it,
but
you
are
the
first
person
to
hold
this
position.
Yes,
ever
yes,
so
what's
that
like.
B
It's
the
weight
is,
is
intense.
I
thought
about
that
a
lot
when
I
first
found
out
about
this
job
and
they
posted
it.
I
didn't
make
any
moves.
You
know.
I
just
sat
there
and
looked
at
it
like
do.
I
really
want
to
do
that.
Then
I
had
to
do
a
lot
of
soul
searching
and
I
had
to
talk
to
my
wife
about
it
and
ultimately
decided
that
this
was
in
fact
a
good
move
for
me
and
also,
hopefully,
for
the
city
of
pittsburgh.
B
I'm
very
civic
minded
I
like
working
for,
I
like
being
a
public
servant.
I
take
it
seriously
when
I
was
here
before
it's
difficult,
because
the
law
department
has
two
clients,
but
one
master,
and
by
that
I
mean
they
serve
both
the
executive
branch,
the
municipal
corporation
and
council,
but
it's
there's
times
as
as
in
any
kind
of
government
where
there
might
be
not.
B
I
won't
go
so
far
as
to
say
a
conflict,
but
at
least
it
makes
it
difficult
to
navigate
sometimes
when
you
might
have
competing
interests,
and
so
the
creation
of
this
position
removes
that
problem
right.
If
there's
ever
a
point
in
time.
In
which
they'll
be
like
you
know,
it
feels
like
we
got
to
take
this
one
position
for
the
executive
branch
and
it
doesn't
seem
exactly
like
the
same
position.
The
legislative
branch
wants
to
have
that's
the
time
to
be
like
okay,
we're
going
to
build
a
little
wall.
B
If
you
will
and
then
that
way,
the
lawyers
can
do
what
lawyers
do
best
in
the
best
environment,
which
is
to
say
the
duty
of
loyalty
and
the
zealous
advocacy
for
your
client's
position
is
something
I
think
you
can't
really
divorce
from
the
practice
of
law.
So
it
makes
our
profession
a
little
bit
different
than
other
professions,
and
so
it's
nice
to
be
able
to
have
that
choice.
Now
it's
like
okay,
we
need
to
turn
on
our
zealous
advocate
advocacy
and
our
our
undivided
loyalty
hats
right
now.
We
can't
do
it.
B
Otherwise
you
can
do
dual
representation,
it
happens
all
the
time
and
without
conflict
or
without
problem
or
issue,
but
it's
just
nice
to
have
this
mechanism
now.
So
the
other
thing
too,
is
I
tend
to
be
tmi
for
some
people
too
much
information
lay
it
on
me.
You
give
me
a
research
assignment
and
I'm
going
to
bury
you
in
the
source
material.
You
know
as
well,
as
you
know,
a
little
polished,
analysis
and
whatnot,
but
to
be
able
to
give
that
kind
of
attention
to
council.
B
As
a
body
I
think,
is
something
that
they
needed
and
appreciated,
and
hopefully
we'll
continue
to
appreciate.
But
right
now
I
mean-
and
I
got
in
the
job
I
think
I
was
I
was
just
before
christmas,
and
in
that
time
you
know
the
wilkinsburg
thing
and
and
the
bridge
and
and
police
reform
and
gun
reform,
and
so
many
big
issues
it's
the
hardest.
Part
of
the
job.
B
Right
now
is
keeping
council
which
isn't
hard
because
council
wants
to,
but
there's
so
many
outside
influences,
but
in
short,
keeping
council
focused
on
the
work
the
people
of
pittsburgh
voted
them
into
office
to
do,
and
so
they're
really
trying
to
focus
in
on
these
edicts
from
the
voting
population
of
pittsburgh
and
still
balance
with
all
these
outside
issues
that
are
kind
of
somewhat.
You
know
the
the
mayor's
office
is
still
telling
us
who
the
administration
is
going
to
be.
B
B
Can
we
get
our
mayor
established
and
all
the
heads
of
the
office
is
appointed
and
give
us
a
chance
to
meet
and
talk
and
figure
out
the
executive
branch's
agenda,
the
legislative
branch's
agenda
and
then
come
to
us
with
the
extra
stuff
you'd
like
us
to
consider,
but
as
it
is
the
carts
before
the
horse
right
now
and
they're,
all
out
of
the
barn,
and
so
it's
just
staying
on
top
of
all
that
is
exhausting.
A
So
if
I'm
understanding
everything
you
have
said,
if
I'm
understanding
all
that
correctly,
you
have
ten
bosses,
the
nine
council,
members
and
the
city
clerk-
and
I
have
worked
here
almost
nine
years.
So
I
know-
and
I
work
very
closely
with
both
city
council
and
the
city
clerk's
office.
So
in
the
short
time
that
you've
been
back,
have
you
had
an
instance
already
where
you
are
getting
10
different
directions.
B
Well,
I
would
argue
that
I
have
12
clients.
The
number
one
client
is
the
the
citizens
of
pittsburgh.
A
B
That's
all
of
our
bosses.
The
number
two
is
council,
as
a
body.
Okay
and
so
council,
as
a
body
is,
is
kind
of
like
its
own
entity
and
then
there's
the
the
nine
council
people
and
the
clerk
and
the
budget
director
too
matter
a
great
deal.
Their
input
is,
is
tantamount
so
it's
it's
a
lot,
but
you
know
when
I,
when
I
was
in
private
practice,
I
used
to
have
these
personal
goals
of
I
want
10
clients.
No
more
than
10
clients
like
10
clients
is
my
wheelhouse.
That's
a
good
number
for
me.
B
B
Each
of
them
ran
on
various
different
issues,
and
so
helping
them
remain
fidel
or
to
have
integrity
with
their
constituency
is
one
of
the
things
that
I
also
try
to
provide
for
them.
I
have
standing
meetings
with
anybody
who
wants
them
so
that
they
can
always
feel
like
they
have
access
to
legal
counsel.
B
My
job
was
to
provide
economic
development
for
the
10
county,
wide
region,
no
small
feat,
but
in
the
course
of
doing
that,
for
six
years,
I've
developed
a
quite
a
library
in
rolodex
to
use
a
really
old
term.
Rolodex
was
the
way
we
used
to
keep
track
of
people's
names
and
phone
numbers
of
some
people
still
do
right.
A
B
B
B
B
A
B
They've
been
making
progress,
so
one
of
the
reasons
I
love
pittsburgh
now
is
you
can
see
the
progress
it's
difficult
when
you're
just
looking.
You
know
within
the
lens
of
maybe
five
years,
but
when
you,
when
you
scope
it
out
and
you
think
about
what
lawrenceville
looked
like
in
1991
when
reyes
teca
was
pretty
much
the
only
real
business
going
on
in
lawrenceville
and
like
alley,
cats
and
heroin
addicts.
Pardon
my
I
mean
it's
sad,
but
that's
was
the
major
population
in
lawrenceville.
B
You
look
at
it
now
and
you
would
you
think,
you're
in
like
little
brooklyn
right.
So
that's
even
though
that's
been
20
30
years
in
the
making,
the
impact
is
still
immediate
and
there's
still
things
that
are
being
resolved
as
a
result
of
that
kind
of
growth.
So
it's
difficult.
You
got
to
balance
growth
with
the
social
safety
net.
A
Part
of
your
job,
as
we
have
my
staff,
and
I
have
seen
in
the
short
time
you've
been
back-
is
that
you
are
now
attending
all
the
city
council
meetings
yeah.
Yes,
so
I
have
often
told
people
that
my
staff
and
I
are
the
only
ones
who
attend
every
single
city
council
meeting.
What
have
you
learned?
What
is
the
one
thing
you
have
learned
in
your
short
time
back
that
you
didn't
expect
to
learn
by
attending
all
these
meetings.
Oh.
B
That's
a
good
question,
I
mean
I'll.
Tell
you
the
biggest
surprise
to
me
and
this
shouldn't
be
a
surprise.
I
just
wasn't
expecting
it
was
there's
a
there's,
a
higher
level
of
empathy
going
on
in
the
hearts
of
council
than
it
seems
apparent
just
watching.
You
know
these
meetings,
they
really
do
care
and
they
they
take
the
concerns
of
the
constituency
to
heart
more
than
I
anticipated,
and
you
don't
really
get
to
see
all
that
play
out.
B
I
know
there's
things
that
they
would
like
to
say
and
share
more
than
they
actually
do,
and
so
that
to
me
is
probably
the
biggest
surprise.
Is
they
don't
utilize
that
as
a
pulpit
to
make
themselves
look
good
and
during
the
interview
for
this
job
they
asked
me
if
I
had
any
criticisms
for
them,
which
I
was
you
know
amazed
at
that
bold
question,
but
I
was
like
your
self-care
routine
could
use
to
improve
it.
It's
a
hard
job,
it's
a
thankless
job.
B
Nobody
rarely
just
does
anybody
ever
say,
hey
good
job.
Thank
you
for
your
undying
service,
it's
usually
the
opposite,
but
I
had
suggested
that
they
get
like
a
pr
person
or
somebody
who
could
speak
for
them.
You
know
the
way
the
mayor's
office
does
or
other
governments
do
and
and
has
somebody
who
speaks
media
and
speaks
constituency
and
doesn't
necessarily
always
you
know,
speak
from
the
heart.
A
That's
interesting.
I,
in
all
the
years
I've
worked
here,
I've
never
thought
of.
Yes,
the
mayor
has
a
communications
director
or
somebody
who
puts
together
the
mediafied
announcement,
but
council
doesn't
and
that's
would
that
be
you
at.
B
B
I
am
the
conciliary
for
them
to
provide
counsel
for
them.
I'm
not
supposed
to
be
outward
facing.
Do.
B
Well
for
clarity,
I
would
if
they
asked
me
to
but
there's
no
way
they
would
there's
no
way.
They
would
ask
me
to
do
any
of
those
things,
but
I
absolutely
would
good
to
know
I
am
loyal
to
them
and
my
job
is
to
protect
them
right.
That's
how
I
see
it.
My
job
is
to
make
sure
they
have
the
resources
they
need
to
make
rules
and
to
do
their
duties
and
powers,
but
also
to
protect
them
is
to
the
best
of
my
ability,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
they
make
their
own
calls.
A
I
think
that's
really
interesting.
I've
often
said
the
same
thing
is
I
give
my
opinion
I
offer
they
ask
questions.
I
offer
my
years
of
experience
doing
this
and
I
offer
my
opinion
of
what
I
think
they
should
do
and
they
either
take
it
or
they
don't
right.
B
They're
the
officers
of
the
municipal
corporation,
correct,
you
know
they.
They
have
that
kind
of
responsibility
that
the
crown
weighs
heavy
on
the
head.
So
do
you
go.
B
It
kind
of
depends
on
the
the
situation
right.
You
know
if
you're
a
criminal
attorney
right
or
a
divorce
lawyer,
there's
times
where
you
override
your
your
client's
wishes,
because
you're
doing
what's
in
their
best
interest,
because
you're
in
litigation
right
and
the
lawyer
sometimes
know
how
the
courtroom
works
better
than
the
client
does,
and
so
you
kind
of
are
in
this
a
different
kind
of
fiduciary
relationship
with
the
client
than
you
are
in
a
corporate
council
situation
or
being
a
solicitor
to
municipality.
B
B
So,
if
we're
in
a
situation,
what
I
try
to
do
is
provide
them
choices
and
as
many
choices
as
I
can
possibly
develop,
the
time
will
allow
and
then
from
there
so
long
as
they're,
making
an
intelligent
and
informed
choice.
It's
their
choice.
To
make.
I
don't
make
choices
for
my
clients.
They
make
their
choices.
What
I
try
to
do
is
provide
them
informed
cons.
You
know
to
make
the
best
informed
decision
like
right
now.
B
If
I
were
a
bit
more
paternal,
I
would
tell
everybody
be
quiet,
don't
say
a
word
about
nothing.
You
know
until
we've
had
a
chance
to
talk
to
the
law
department
or
until
we've
had
a
chance
to
coordinate
with
the
mayor's
office
until
we've
had
a
chance
to
do
responsible
process
before
we
respond
to
things,
but
it's
difficult
when
you're
being
bullied
and
shamed
in
the
media
to
repress
the
urge
to
respond,
and
so
it's
it's
difficult
for
them.
B
You
know
to,
and
I
wouldn't
presume
how
one
lives
through
that
particular
trauma
of
being
and
that
you
know
it's
not
like
emails
are
coming
over
and
people
are
saying
hey.
You
know,
look
look
at
this
heads
up,
I'm
doing
my
job,
so
you
can
do
your
job,
it's
it's
like
way.
After
the
fact,
these
bombshells
are
being
dropped
and
I'm
sure
it's
not
going
to
be
the
first
or
last
time
that
this
happens
and
some
of
them
are
I've
been
doing
this
for
a
long
time,
and
so
they
understand
you
know.
B
B
A
You've
pardoned
the
cliche,
but
you've
gotten
your
feet,
wet
now,
as
the
first
person
in
this
position.
What
are
some
goals
for
yourself
or
the
position
for
the
next
three
months?
Six
months
year,
two
years
ten
years.
B
That's
those
are
all
great
questions.
I
wrote
down
a
series
of
guides,
you
know
for
myself
before
I
took
the
job
like
be
the
last
person
to
speak.
If
at
all,
don't
be
the
fall
guy
and
these
are
impossible.
B
B
B
So
that's
my
short-term
goal
is
to
figure
out
where
that
is,
but
my
long,
you
know
the
day
I
got
here:
I've
been
trying
to
meet
with
the
law
department
so
that
we
could
set
up
rules
of
engagement
right
for
the
for
council
and
myself
and
understanding
the
the
roles
and
the
new
dynamic.
If
any,
so
again,
that's
difficult
to
do
and
the
solicitor
hasn't
been
appointed
and
affirmed
yet
so
you
know
that
will
happen
in
due
time.
I
just
wish
there
wasn't
so
many
arrows
launched
across
the
bow.
B
If
you
will
already
like,
let
us
get
our
team
together.
Let
us
get
the
the
people
of
pittsburgh
elected
to
have
these
leaders
and
these
decision
makers
in
place,
let's
get
them
in
place
and
then,
let's
give
them
some
decisions
to
make,
and
that
would
be,
I
think,
the
responsible
process
here
and
so
that's
a
long-term
goal
right.
The
long-term
goal
is:
how
do
I
get
these
houses
of
government
to
work
internally
rather
than
learn
things
about
each
other
through
the
media?
So
that's.
B
I
don't
know
how
quickly
I
can
get
that
going,
but
I'd
like
to
get
that
going
yesterday,
I'd
like
to
have
the
rules
of
engagement
done
already,
but
as
it
is,
I'm
kind
of
waiting
and
doing
the
best
I
can.
My
favorite
thinker
is
a
guy
named
paulo
ferrari
and
he
and
miles
horton
who's.
Another
one
of
my
favorite
thinkers
wrote
a
book
called.
B
We
make
the
road
by
walking
it,
and
so
I'm
using
a
lot
of
that
book
in
my
day-to-day
life
is
basically
it's
a
new
path,
we're
gonna
bump
into
a
log
or
stub
our
toe
on
a
rock
and
we're
gonna,
be
like
okay.
Well,
that's
there's
a
log
there.
Now
there's
a
rock
there
now
grab
our
machetes
and
clear
out
the
path
and
be
like
now.
You
know
this
is
how
we
make
the
road
we
make
the
road
by
walking
it.
B
So
my
long-term
goal
would
be
to
impart
legal
literacy
to
our
rule
makers
and
government
officials,
so
both
miles
horton
and
paolo
ferrari
are
famous
for
literacy,
adult
literacy
in
particular,
but
the
efforts
that
they
employed
were
used
by
people
like
rosa
parks,
martin
luther
king.
B
You
know
that
this
is
the
civil
rights
movement
and
literacy
are
connected
and
they're
connected
to
the
highlander
folk
school,
and
that's
where
many
of
our
civil
rights
leaders
went
to
get
to
study,
but
it
was
literally
back
then,
to
vote
you
had,
you
had
to
prove
you
could
read,
and
so
they
had
to
teach
people
how
to
read.
You
know:
literacy
of
non-free
people
is
outlawed
for
a
long
time
in
this
country
and
because
that
literacy
is
power
and
then,
when
you
go
to
law
school,
they
teach
you.
B
B
The
best
thing
I
can
do
with
my
time
and
energy
and
particular
skill
set,
is
to
impart
legal
literacy
as
much
as
I
can
to
counsel
as
a
body
and
to
give
them
the
means
to
look
at
laws
and
have
a
better
understanding
of
of
the
nuance
and
complexity
of
how
it
is
that
you
get
a
camel
through
the
eye
of
a
needle
and
other
kinds
of
legal
mumbo
jumbo
that
we
do.
But
nonetheless,
you
know
I
don't
want
them
to
be
afraid
to
read
a
case
from
a
court.
B
I
don't
want
them
to
be
afraid
to
read
a
statute
and
all
the
comments,
and
I
want
them
to
understand
the
importance
of
legislative
history
and
and
statutory
interpretation,
and
things
like
that.
I
don't
expect
them
to
be
experts,
that's
what
the
lawyers
are
for.
I
don't
want
them
to
be
lawyers
themselves,
nobody
elected
them
to
to
give
legal
opinions.
B
You
know
we
have
solicitors
for
that.
Every
branch
of
the
government
has
a
solicitor
to
raise
legal
issues
and
offer
legal
opinions.
That's
not
what
we
want
them
to
do,
but
we
do
want
them
to
have
more
legal
literacy
so
that
they
can
effectuate
their
duties
and
their
powers
and
a
more
equal
playing
field.
A
A
This
is
there's
only
good
that
can
come
out
of
this
to
have
somebody,
that's
essentially
going
to
sit
next
to
them
and
tell
them
yes,
you
can
do
that.
No,
you
can't
do
that.
Let
me
think
about
it.
Let
me
look
it
up
for
you.
I
I
think
it's
a
great
way
for
whether
it's
an
elected
body
or
an
appointed
body
or
any
company
just
to
have
somebody
who
can
add
that
legalese
or
do
the
legalese
for
those
that
don't
may
not
understand
it.
B
I
wish
the
world
was
so
simple
that
I
could
just
say
like
yes,
you
can
do
this.
No,
you
can't
do
that.
It's
often
my
beginning
of
any
statement
I
make
because
I
live
in
a
world
of
arguments,
there's
an
argument.
This
way,
there's
an
argument
that
way.
I'm
still,
you
know
we
have
to
bring
it
into
reality,
based
on
facts
and
things
like
that.
But
you
know
what
I'm
really
looking
forward
to
is
looking
forward
to
growing
old
here.
B
A
So
you
and
I
are
going
to
grow
all
together
is
what
you're
saying
I
hope
so
awesome
right.
I
hope
so
so
at
this
point
of
the
show,
I'm
going
to
ask
you
four
completely
random
questions
that
have
nothing
to
do
with
your
job:
fantastic,
okay,
all
right
when
you,
when
you're
eating
sandwiches
here
in
pittsburgh,
are
you
putting
fries
on
them
or
no
fries
on
them?.
A
You're
supposed
to
make
yourself
likable.
B
Well,
let
me
give
you
the
truth
is
when
I
first
moved
back
to
pittsburgh.
I
hate
primantis
every
seven
years,
like
as
many
as
I
could
until
my
doctor
was
like.
You
have
a
problem,
but
the
reason
why
I
become
more
of
a
fry
purist
pittsburgh
has
made
me
more
of
a
fry
purist,
oh
interesting,
and
so
I
will
go
to
uncle
samps
and
just
get
french
fries
from
uncle
sam's
and
pair
that
with
any
sandwich,
and
then
I
don't
want
to
pervert
them
in
any
way,
shape
or
form.
B
I
want
to
honor
the
integrity
of
these
french
fries
and
all
of
their
crispy
glory
and
keep
them
off
the
of
the
lettuce
and
tomato
now
I'll
eat
a
pramani
sandwich.
When
I
need
my
fries
well
and
a
steak
salad
in
pittsburgh
with
fries
on
it
is
a
thing
I
miss
when
I'm
not
in
town,
okay,
so
fries
on
salad,
always
fries
on
sandwich
depends.
A
The
first
time
I
came
to
visit
pittsburgh,
my
wife
took
me
to
the
o.
She
said
I'll
get
the
hot
dogs
you
get
the
french
fries.
A
That
is
true,
yes,
because
I
saw
what's
there
now
and
I
still
call
it
the
o
right.
B
A
A
What
was
your
favorite
childhood
cartoon?
Oh.
B
I
mean
I
relate
to
the
trickster
okay,
so
bugs
bunny
minus
the
racism.
B
A
B
B
A
What
is
your
go-to
karaoke
song.
B
A
That
is
fantastic.
That
is
not
a
normal
karaoke.
So
I
like
that,
that's
excellent
good.
What
is
the
strangest
strangest
fact?
You
have
stuck
in
your
head.
B
Oh,
oh,
okay!
Well,
I
am
the
damn
that
talks
about
blockchain.
You
might
have
heard
of
us.
We
are
out
here
in
the
world.
I
am.
I
was
bitten
by
the
blockchain
bug
a
couple
years
ago,
and
so
I
would
say
I
probably
know
an
annoying
amount
about
blockchain
and
am
excited
to
share
it
with
anybody
who
gives
me
an
excuse
to
talk
about
it.
B
A
B
Else
seems
to
care
about
it.
For
me,
it's
about
the
history
of
money.
I
am,
I
am
a
crazy
aficionado
like
I
am
obsessed
with
the
history
of
money.
One
of
my
favorite
books
is
creature
from
jekyll
island
and
I'll,
give
you
the
whole
history
of
the
fed
and
all
this
other
fun
stuff.
So
for
me,
economic
justice
has
always
been
everything,
so
the
history
of
money,
for
me,
is
that's.
Probably
the
weirdest
thing,
weirdest
set
of
facts
that
I
have.
A
A
Did
you
know
it's
illegal
to
burn
money,
and
I
said
I
don't
think
it's
illegal,
but
why
would
you
do
it
and
he
said
well?
What
do
you
mean?
I
said
if
you
have
a
hundred
dollar
bill
and
you
burn
a
hundred
dollar
bill,
you're
out
a
hundred
dollars,
and
he
said
oh
yeah,
and-
and
so
he
he's
still
at
this
age,
where
learning
about
the
value
of
things
like
he
thinks
I
make
no
joke,
he
thinks
I
make
like
50
a
year
and.
A
A
Early
right,
yeah,
all
right,
so
I
know
you're
not
really.
B
Yeah,
if
they
would,
if
they
need,
if
they
have
a
legal
question,
there
is
the
allegheny
county
bar
association,
a
lawyer,
referral
program,
there's
neighborhood
legal
services
and
a
variety
of
other.
You
know
types
there's
something
in
our
our
or
you
know:
here's
another
long-term
goal.
Of
course,
I'm
not
a
legislator,
but
economic
justice
being
something
that's
important
to
me
and
access
to
legal
information
being
a
huge
part
of
economic
justice.
B
It
would
be
nice
if
somebody
at
my
alma
mater
would
start
my
clinic
back
up
again
because
in
my
clinic
I
was
fa,
you
know
to
the
public.
Anybody
who
had
a
legal
problem
that
I
could
somehow
justify.
It
was
related
to
economic
justice
and
I
could
serve
them,
and
so
I
do
miss
that
role
a
little
bit
of
being
the
person
for
the
public.
B
But
I
also
don't
miss
that
role
anymore
too,
so
something
to
think
about.
As
a
community,
we
probably
do
need
to
create
some
infrastructure
for
people
who
normally
couldn't
afford
a
lawyer
to
talk
to
them
about
their
lease
or
about
somebody's,
offering
them
a
loan
on
a
car
or
pretty
much
anything
where
it'd
be
nice.
If,
but
that's
probably
not
what
you
meant,
you
probably
meant
if
somebody
had
a
question
about
the
operation
of
city
government
or
something
like
that,
everybody's
got
a
right
to
know.
You
know.
B
If
there's
they
could
send
a
right
to
no
request
if
they
wanted
to
know
something
that
we
already
had
a
report
on
our
information,
for.
I
think
our
websites
do
a
pretty
good
job
of
getting
a
lot
of
information
out
to
the
public
and
then
last
but
not
least,
3-1-1
is
an
amazing
service.
Like
that's
not
in
every
city.
You
know
you
can't,
I
don't
people
take
it
for
granted,
but
it's
such
a
wonderful
reason.
We
love
311
and
they
do
a
great
job.
They
do.
B
A
Thank
you
again,
my
pleasure.
I
really
appreciate
it
and
for
those
of
you
watching
we'll
see,
we
will
see
you
next
time
right
here
on
meet
the
people.