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From YouTube: Police Reform Task Force Meeting - 8/10/20
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A
Good
evening,
everyone
and
welcome
to
our
august
10th
police
reform
task
force
meeting
today
we
have
two
great
conversations
to
share
and
to
have
in-depth
dialogue
which
will
include
the
citizens
review
board
and
the
office
of
municipal
investigation
in
addition
to
our
presentations
following
the
discussion,
the
task
force
will
take
some
time
to
just
review
our
reporting
structure
and
format
to
confirm
how
the
information
will
be
presented
before
we
get
started.
I
see
we
have
our
new
member
just
came
on
and
robert
and
marie
kelly
welcome.
A
Well,
well,
welcome
reverend
kelly
we're
glad
to
have
you
joining
the
task
force
and
look
forward
to
your
input
and
contribution
to
this
important
topic.
B
Praise
the
lord
glad
to
be
here
with
you
all
glad
to
be
here,
I'm
also
with
the
clergy's
concern:
reverend
wingfield
and
pastor
grisby
and
and
pastor
coleman,
a
few
others
and
I'm
the
president
of
hill
district
ministry
alliance.
So
they
got
me
busy.
C
I
don't
have
any
comments.
Thank
you,
dr
bullock.
I
just
soon
get
straight
into
it.
I
would
introduce
this
beth
changer,
who
is
the
director
of
the
citizens
police
review
board
and
still
go
over
history
and
what
they
do
and
just
give
us
a
presentation,
and
then
afterwards
we
will
hear
from
aaron
bruni.
Who
is
the
director
of
in
fact
aaron?
I
don't
know
exactly
your
title
manager
director,
I'm
not
sure,
but
of
the
office
of
municipal
investigations,
which
is
omi
and
aaron.
C
I
was
gonna
have
her
on
first,
but
second,
because
she
wasn't
sure
when
she
get
back
from
a
personal
appointment,
so
she
is
back
and
well
and
having
she
can
wear
a
shoe
now.
So
thank
you,
aaron.
So
without
further
ado,
dr
bullock,
I'd
like
to
turn
this
over
to
beth
and
beth.
You
can
introduce
the
chair
of
the
citizens
police
review
board
and
describe
the
whole
board.
D
Thank
you
valerie,
good
afternoon,
everybody,
it's
nice
to
be
with
you.
Some
of
us
go
way
back.
Some
of
us
are
just
getting
acquainted,
but
on
behalf
of
the
citizen
police
review
board,
it
is
it's!
It's
it's
very
good
fortune
today
that
our
chairperson,
dr
emma
lucas,
darby,
was
able
to
join
us
and
dr
darvey.
Would
you
like
to
to
give
some
opening
remarks
to
us
before
I
give
our
history?
D
D
Thank
you,
dr
darby.
You
know
when
we
when
I
thought
about
having
this
visit
today.
I
was
cognizant
of
the
leadership
in
our
co-chair
with
valerie
mcdonald
roberts,
and
what,
when
you
were
on
city
council,
your
activism
there
that
led
to
what
was
what
ended
up
being
a
people's
referendum
to
the
home
rule
charter,
because
city
council
couldn't
get
it
done
with
five
votes
to
create
a
civilian
oversight
panel,
but
valerie
was
extremely
active.
D
I
think
you
either
were
the
prime
sponsor
or
co-sponsor
of
the
five
major
bills
in
the
mid
90s,
initially
to
stave
off
the
department
of
justice
investigation
council
tried
to
to
fix
things
that
took
a
long
time
to
get
to
where
they
were
before
the
feds
could
come
in
and
turn
everything
upside
down.
Well.
D
a
month
after
the
consent
decree
was
entered
into,
the
review
board
was
created.
So
it
was
a
very
very
tumultuous
time
and,
as
you
can
imagine,
police
the
city
of
pittsburgh
police
and
their
fraternal
order
of
police
union
representation,
they
were
very
alienated.
You
could
say
and
demoralized,
because
now
everybody's
looking
over
their
shoulder
everybody's
in
their
business,
everybody
is
demanding
things
from
them.
D
D
The
street
cops
were
the
ones
that
were
pretty
much.
The
scapegoats
for
everything
that
happened.
We
can't
forget
that
people
in
any
employment
will
go
out
to
the
extremes.
They
will
do
what
they
know
will
be
tolerated
within
the
workplace
and
that's
what
we
had
to
get
a
hold
of
back
in
in
the
mid
90s.
So
the
consent
decree
came
in
the
city
rapidly
came
into
operational
compliance,
but
outstanding
remain.
The
issue
with
the
office
of
professional
responsibility.
D
D
eight.
Am
I
behind
myself
there
97
in
97?
That's
right,
it
was
it
was.
It
was
december
of
97
when
they
convened
their
first
board
meeting
and
they
went
into
the
spring
of
98
having
to
develop
rules
and
operating
procedures
had
to
conduct
public
hearings
for
review
of
those
rules
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
They
hired
staff
in
april
of
98
and
then
created
their
office
downtown
and
and
and
when
we
were
off
now
as
any
ordinary
new
organization,
they
went
through
a
lot
of
developmental
strife.
D
D
We
do
sue
them
when
we
have
to
get
answers
to
questions
that
we
don't
have
answered
through
the
ordinance
or
through
the
charter
provision,
subpoena
enforcement,
which
is
another
thing
that
just
to
make
sure
you.
You
are
all
aware,
because
one
of
the
myths
out
there
is
that
the
board
needs
subpoena
power.
We
have
had
subpoena
power
since
may
20th
of
1997..
D
We
have
used
it
judiciously,
but
we
use
it
routinely.
The
courts
enforce
it.
The
commonwealth
court
has
opined
that
the
terms
and
conditions
of
the
fop
working
agreement
with
the
city
of
pittsburgh
do
not
apply
to
the
cprb,
so
the
independence
of
the
board
has
been
reinforced
over
the
years
and
the
power
that
the
board
has
has.
Likewise,
it
has
been
endorsed
by
the
by
the
courts.
D
D
There's
been
some
criticism
about
that,
but
I
can
tell
you
from
the
the
various
panels
of
board
members
that
we've
had.
It's
been
a
consensus
that
that
voice
of
law
enforcement
is
absolutely
necessary
for
the
board
to
appropriately
assess
facts,
information
and
render
decisions
on
on
situations
in
front
of
them.
That
voice
is
very
important.
The
board
has
through
through
2019
anyway,
they
have
disposed
of
approximately
3
300
3
400
cases
through
board
actions.
D
D
D
We
have
provided
a
lot
of
probably
30
reports
or
briefings
on
various
police
related
issues.
I
believe
that
our
our
seminal
report,
if
I
say
so
myself
on
the
education,
training
retention
of
police
officers,
that
we
conducted
in
2002,
at
least
we
we
released
it
in
2002,
dealt
with
an
assumption
that
60
college
credits
was
having
a
disparate
impact
on
non-whites
and
females.
D
D
D
At
the
time
there
was
the
physical
agility
test
which
we
had
in
2002
recommended
the
adoption
of
the
cooper
fitness
standards,
which
is
now
the
standard
in
the
commonwealth,
took
a
long
time
to
get
it
there,
but
it
is
now,
but
we
were
losing
a
lot
of
people
there.
We
were
losing
a
lot
of
people
in
the
written
exam,
so
we
had
recommended
it
be
renormalized.
D
There
are
a
lot
of
recommendations
that
I
would
I
would.
I
would
ask
that
you
consider
that
you
look
at
in
terms
of
their
their
propriety
in
continuing
appropriateness
for
consideration
now,
because
the
patterns
and
the
issues
are
the
same.
D
Enhancing
the
diversity
of
the
police
department
was
the
same
issue
that
we
talked
about,
in
fact,
with
valerie
back
in
the
mid
90s,
one
of
those
one
of
those
ordinances
that
was
adopted,
I
believe,
had
to
do
with
the
pre
of
employment
screening
of
applicants,
including
psychological
assessments,
including
honesty
assessments,
things
that
you're
talking
about
right
now
that
continue
to
be
something
we
have
to
get.
D
We
have
to
figure
out
how
to
recruit
people,
to
assure
that
we
look
like
the
city
in
the
bureau,
police,
but
brain
versus
brawn
was
the
ultimate
conclusion
there,
because,
as
we
move
along
problem
solving
critical
thinking
analysis,
the
kinds
of
skills
that
require
socialization
and
maturity
are
the
things
that
we
need
today,
ron
isn't
going
to
do
it
anymore.
You
can't
just
decide
to
use
force
to
solve
a
problem.
You
got
to
be
smart
about
it.
Technology
has
also
contributed
to
that.
So
the
60
college
credit
requirement.
D
It
remains
a
minimum
from
our
view
and
and
should
not
be
eliminated
for
the
sake
of
lowering
a
standard
to
me,
that's
a
holy
wholly
offensive
approach
to
the
situation,
but
that
report
is,
you
know,
accompanied
by
probably
another
30
reports
related
to
police
practices
that
have
caused
some
some
controversy.
You
know
motor
vehicle
pursuits,
shooting
at
movement
moving
vehicles,
the
use
of
taser
when
we
go
back
to
2004
when
taser
was
start
starting
to
come
out
less
lethal
force
options.
D
Officer
involved.
Domestic
violence
was
a
huge
project
in
2007
that
the
board
had
a
very
prominent
role
in
supporting
our
community
partners
in
promoting
an
officer-involved
domestic
violence
policy.
D
In
2013
there
was
legislation
that
was
proposed
and
ultimately
adopted.
Reverend
burgess
proposed
it
and
it
was
adopted
by
council
that
directs
all
bureau
of
police
policies,
procedures,
orders,
etc
to
be
vetted
by
the
board
prior
to
their
implementation.
D
One
of
our
investigators-
I
have
kind
of
tasked
with
being
a
liaison
to
that
the
officer's
writing
policy
and
procedure
so
that
we
have
a
good
working
relationship.
The
problem
with
that
is
it
takes
away
from
our
investigators
time.
D
So
what
we've
done
this
year
is
we've
put
in
a
budget
request,
and
I
would
ask
the
task
force
to
support
it,
that
we
convert
the
position
I
mentioned
earlier
about
into
a
community
liaison
and
create
a
position
that
would
be
our
research
and
planning
analyst,
who
would
enable
us
to
stay
on
top
of
best
practices,
cutting
edge
kind
of
police
practice,
recommendations,
etc.
Technology
being
a
large
part
of
that
these
days
and
allow
us
to
have
somebody
dedicated
to
that,
while
not
taking
away
from
the
investigative
time.
D
State
statutes
have
a
tremendous
impact
on
our
ability
to
do
our
work,
one
of
the
major
ones
being
the
criminal
history
record
information
act
that
prohibits
civilians
from
having
access
to
investigative
reports,
which
also,
with
the
exception
of
course,
over
at
omi.
They
do
have
police
officers
detailed
there,
so
they
can
get
this
material.
We
cannot
investigative
reports
used
to
be
a
good
starting
point
to
establish
what
an
officer's
description
of
an
incident
it
would
be,
but
we
don't
get
those
reports
anymore.
D
So
that's
a
problem,
but
that
could
be
amended
if,
if
the
criminal
history
record
information
act,
also
known
as
crea,
was
amended
to
allow
the
lawfully
organized
civilian
oversight
entities
access
to
those
documents
as
well
they're
we're
not
allowed
to
have
them
now.
Similarly,
the
access
to
body
cam
video
that
that
that
should
be
public
period.
D
We
understand
and
respect
the
need
to
protect
evidence
in
in
prosecutions
and
that
sort
of
thing,
but
the
degree
to
which
the
secrecy
shrouds
those
the
video
it
just.
It
just
elevates
public
suspicion
as
to
what
what
really
transpired-
and
if
there's
video
that
shows
what
happened.
Why?
Wouldn't
we
make
that
public?
D
D
D
We
we
we
dealt
with
a
lot
of
issues,
including
you
know,
the
problem
with
qualified
immunity,
the
fact
that
police
officers
don't
have
to
carry
personal
liability
insurance.
You
know
in
pennsylvania.
If
you
have
committed
a
a
misdemeanor,
a
misdemeanor
of
the
second
degree
or
higher,
then
your
certification
is
going
to
be
suspended
and
you
probably,
if
you're
convicted,
you
will
not
be
able
to
be
recertified
as
a
police
officer
in
pennsylvania.
D
If
there's
a
finding,
should
there
be
some
accountability
attached
to
that
to
the
officers
who
are
responsible
for
creating
that
liability
now
part
of
the
problem?
Is
the
municipalities
tend
to
settle
these
things
before
they
before
there
gets
to
being
a
finding,
but
there's
considering
that?
That's
why?
When,
if,
if
you're
familiar
with
the
police
annual
service
report,
when
we
wrote
that
and
and
there
was
a
mr
stevens
going
to
test
to
this,
there
was
a
desire
from
the
community
to
codify
the
consent
decree
now
the
consent
decree
was
time
limited.
D
It
was
very
objectively
specific
and
once
those
things
were
attained,
that
was
the
end
of
it.
Its
life
expired.
It
was
over
and
done
with,
but
the
values
that
were
expressed
within
that
consent
decree
were
were
such
that
we
wanted
to
see
them
continue
in
the
practice
of
the
pittsburgh
bureau
of
police.
D
So
when
the
this
I
think
it
was
around
2004,
we
started
to
write
up
those
criteria
for
consideration
of
counsel
to
maybe
codify
some
of
it,
but
that
was
just
not
practical
to
do
so.
What
we
were
able
to
do
again,
reverend
burgess,
who
is
proposed,
counsel,
adopted
the
annual
police
service
report,
and,
if
you
look
at
that,
all
the
individuals
that
would
be
indicative
of
reasonable
conduct
patterns
and
practices,
the
amount
of
of
civil
liability
we
incurred
in
the
course
of
the
reporting
year,
how
many
civil
cases
were
open?
D
D
Very
that
that
kind
of
a
report
would
probably
allay
a
lot
of
the
suspicion
if
more
communities
have
such
an
extensive
reporting.
It
covers
everything
from
stop
and
frisk
to
officer
discipline.
F
D
Yeah
it
was,
and-
and
mr
stevens,
you
know-
we've
we've
had
a
good
working
relationship
over
the
many
many
years
and
we
have
a
lot
of
very
positive
outcomes
to
report
back
contemporary
contemporary
issue.
Right
now
is
is
the
use
of
technology
in
law
enforcement,
and
that's
an
area
that
you
know
predictive,
policing,
facial
recognition,
software,
these
tools
that
are
sort
of
hidden
but
can
be
used
by
law
enforcement.
D
They
kind
of
have
a
little
there's
a
little
shade
with
them
because
nobody's
really
sure
about
how
they
operate.
How
should
they
operate?
I
understand
that
the
participation
of
the
bureau
in
a
predictive
policing
experiment
has
been
curtailed
and
that's
very
positive,
but
just
bear
with
me
to
think
about.
If
you're
going
to
do
an
experiment
with
human
subjects,
what
do
you
have
to
do?
You
have
to
have
a
review
to
determine
public
consent?
D
Government
doesn't
operate
without
the
the
consent
of
its
citizens.
Policing
should
not
occur
and
doesn't
occur
without
the
consent
of
the
people.
If
you're
going
to
run
experiments,
is
it
something
we
should
consider
building
into
a
an
entity,
even
if
it
was
the
review
board
or
some
other
entity?
That
would
be
the
equivalent
of
an
institutional
review
board
if
you're
going
to
initiate
a
new
police
practice,
should
there
be
some
way
of
running
it
through
third
party
to
determine
if
it
had
if
it
presents
potential
injury
to
civil
liberties?
D
Does
it
are
the
risks
invented
and
benefits
attendant
to
that
particular
practice?
Are
they
are
they
acceptable?
I
mean
actually
looking
at
new
police
practices
through
a
common,
not
unusual
system
of
review
prior
to
implementation,
putting
it
up
to
the
equivalent
of
if
you're,
going
to
do
something
like
predictive
policing.
It
has
a
potential
for
major
effect
on
lots
of
people.
D
Do
they
consent
to
it?
Is
it
something
the
public
should
know
a
little
bit
more
about
before
you
embark
upon
it
something
worth
considering.
I
know.
I
would
like
to
brief
our
board
more
about
that,
but
in
terms
of
having
some
review
of
it,
even
the
consideration
of
a
stop
gap
measure
so
that
nothing
can
be
done
without
further
review
and
consideration
so
that
the
police
can't
go
and
do
things
that
may
be
very
attractive
in
terms
of
technology
could
be
construed
as
a
force.
Multiplier
might
be
very
desirable
to
make
their
work
more
efficient.
D
D
D
D
We
made
a
recommendation
to
the
chief
of
police
at
the
time
to
develop
neighborhood
response
teams.
It
was
based
on
a
model
that
came
out
of
miami-dade
county
when
janet
reno
was
there
many
years
ago,
but
it
was
neighborhood
response
team
and
they
had
a
team
of
health
professionals,
housing
specialists,
a
police
officer,
whatever
the
particular
neighborhood
that
was
struggling
whatever
support
services,
they
might
really
need
those
teams
would
go
together
and
they
would
go
through
the
neighborhood
door
to
door
and
hook.
People
up
with
the
service
supports
that
they
required.
D
Unfortunately,
that
didn't
go
very
far
here
in
pittsburgh,
but
now
we're
talking
about
having
teams
and
and
our
chair,
dr
lucas
darby,
has
been
she's,
been
aspiring
to
create
a
police
social
service.
Social
work
support
curriculum
so
that
we
can
start
to
develop
out
of
our
academic
institutions,
the
kind
of
expertise
necessary
to
support
the
people
in
the
community,
which
is
an
indirect,
sometimes
direct,
support
to
the
police.
The
law
enforcement,
keeping
in
mind
that
policing
groups
of
people
is
much
different
than
enforcing
the
law.
D
D
No,
no,
no
dr
darby
in
her
professorship,
her
expertise
as
a
social
work,
mentor,
instructor
and
and
nationally
renowned
social
work
is
working
on
curriculum
development
so
that
social
workers,
professional
social
workers,
will
have
that
exposure
and,
if
and
and
ultimately
potentially
have
that
opportunity
to
have
an
expertise
to
make
it
a
specialty
practice
within
the
social
work
practice
I'll.
Just.
E
Make
a
few
comments
about
that
yeah
we're
looking
at
curriculum
development
for
social
work
students.
What
we're
finding
is
that
many
of
the
students
have
very
little
knowledge,
except
what
you
generally
hear
of
police,
doing
in
terms
of
their
regular
dualies
and
arresting,
etc,
etc.
But
there
are
so
many
components
that
need
to
be
considered
and
with
research
that
we've
looked
at.
There
are
so
many
calls
that
really
require
the
expansive
attention
of
the
police
officers
that
they
really
don't
have
the
background
or
their
kind
of
knowledge
to
deal
with.
E
But
social
workers
could
indeed
de-escalate
situations
and
provide
the
next
necessary
social
supports,
and
these
models
have
been
used
in
several
other
cities,
including
new
york,
richmond
and
sacramento.
E
So
we've
been
looking
at
those
models
to
see
how
we
can
put
into
our
curriculum
information,
so
the
students
can
come
out
with
a
better
understanding
of
what
police
do,
how
they
can
support
police
when
they
are
called
out
to
certain
situations
and
in
many
instances
what
we
found
in
the
literature
is
that
it's
social
services
that
are
really
needed
and
not
you
know
the
police,
handcuffed
them
and
gelling
them.
So
that's
why
we're
looking
at
how
we
can
put
that
into
into
the
curriculum
at
pitt.
D
And
similarly,
if
you
you
reflect
on
the
crisis,
intervention
training
that
goes
on
in
the
city
academy,
now
for
police,
which
is
just
an
intro
again,
let's
go
back
to
socialization
maturity,
the
the
education
requirement
that
exposes
you
to
some
of
these
kinds
of
real
life
situations
before
you
enter
into
the
academy
to
be
a
cop
in
the
academy,
they
do
receive
some
crisis
intervention
training.
D
D
We're
well
positioned
to
understand
some
of
those
issues
in
in
on
from
both
sides
of
the
the
situation
I
I
might
we.
We
also
have
this
relationship
with
the
community.
That's
that's
not
as
firm
and
as
constant
as
we
would
like
it
to
be.
You
know
the
boards.
The
board's
mandate
did
have
that
second
part
about
the
relationship
with
the
community
and
and
the
bureau
police.
We
want
to
work
on
that.
We
want
to
develop
that
we
need
to.
D
We
have
established
an
excellent
working
relationship
with
mr
stevens
and
and
family
over
there,
with
bfap
and
citizens
against
violence
and
and
that
whole
group
we've
worked
on
collaborative
matters,
the
you
and
the
police
brochure
the
due
process
act,
which
is
related
to
the
special
prosecutor.
D
The
officer
involved
domestic
violence,
where
we
had
a
broader
collaborative
group,
but
our
work
on
a
routine
basis
where
we
felt
we
would
get
the
most
exposure
and
opportunity
is
with
pittsburgh.
Public
schools
and
the
pittsburgh
federation
of
teachers
has
been
a
tremendous
partner
for
our
board.
They
have
supported
us
through
thick
and
thin,
and
I
can
tell
you
there
are
been
days
weeks
and
months
where
it
has
not
been
easy
or
comfortable
for
this
board.
You
know
we
get
a
little
sick
and
tired
of
people
saying
we
don't
do
anything.
D
Is
that
simply
not
true,
but
with
the
pft
every
every
fall
like?
If
we
were
going
back
to
brick
and
mortar
schools
now
they
would
have
been
sending
out
our
the
you
and
the
police
brochure,
and
they
made
that
commitment
to
tim
and
to
me
every
year,
they've
done
that
they've
sent
it
to
every
member
every
classroom.
D
Now
we
have
it
on
a
video
that
we
hope
to
distribute
right
yep,
but
that
the
pft
relationship
has
just
been
very
productive.
It's
gotten
us
into
schools.
We've
worked
with
the
babies
with
kindergartners.
First
second
graders.
We
know
that
if
you
don't
have
an
opportunity
to
influence
by
third
grade,
you've
lost
a
great
deal
of
opportunity.
D
I
I
probably
I
could
go
on
for
hours,
and
maybe
you
have
questions
for
us.
It
might
be
a
better
use
of
our
time.
At
this
point,.
B
C
Lot
of
information,
I'm
already
on
page
two,
I
would,
if
and
dr
bullock,
if
you
don't
mind
if
we
can
just
hold
the
questions,
because
I
want
to
for
the
task
force
to
understand
the
the
role
that
omi
plays
any
intersectionalities,
etc,
etc,
so
so
that
they
can
gauge
the
question
they
can
gauge
what
kind
of
questions,
because
I
hope
it
makes
sense.
C
G
G
When
I
was
looking
for
an
internship-
and
I
was
going
to
school
with
the
former
fop
attorney
brian
campbell's
daughter-
and
I
was
interested
in
doing-
I
was
working
there.
You
know
interested
in
social
justice
type
of
things
and
was
a
member
of
the
public
public
interest
law
group
at
pitt,
and
at
that
point
you
know
she
mentioned
to
me.
She's
like
there's
this
office
at
the
city.
They
handle
these
police
misconduct
cases
and
they
are
overwhelmed
and
what
they
need
is
good
writers.
G
In
order
to
get
these
reports
finished,
like
a
lot
of
the
things
have
been
investigated,
and
then
they
were
just
sitting
in
a
file
waiting
for
the
report
to
be
written
out.
I
was
supposed
to
work
80
hours
at
omi
in
the
year
2000
and
I
have
been
there
ever
since,
so
my
understanding
was
prior
to
me
getting
there
and
I
came
in
in
the
heart
of
the
consent
decree.
G
You
know
the
office
of
professional
standards
which
beth
referred
to
was
under
public
safety
a
couple
years
prior
to
me,
arriving
they
had
then
shifted
omi
under
the
law
department.
While
you
know
they
were
wrapping
up
the
backlog
cases
from
the
consent
decree.
When
I
came
to
omi,
then
omi
focused
solely
on
police
misconduct
investigations.
G
Then
we
kind
of
had
a
separate
dhr
unit
that
was
within
under
law
but
housed
in
our
office,
and
they
handled
a
lot
of
the
city's
allegations
as
they
fell
under
the
no
discrimination,
harassment
and
retaliation
policy
for
the
city
and
every
once
in
a
while
there'd
be
a
residency
investigation
that
they
would
throw
in.
G
On
top
of
that,
so
I
would
say
our
office
in
general
doesn't
make
as
many
policy
policy
recommendations
like
the
cprb
is
going
to
do,
but
our
office
handles
you
know,
misconduct,
complaints
against
all
city
employees
and,
like
I
said
when
I
started
there,
it
was
only
police
that
has
exploded
exponentially
the
number
of
investigations
we
are
doing
in
involving
other
city
employees
so
before
those
were
probably
being
handled
by
a
departmental
director
somewhere.
G
So
the
historical
or
the
you
know
whether
we
even
have
information
related
to
any
of
those
investigations,
I'm
not
sure
where
they
were
unless
they
were
related
to
dhr.
If
there
was
you
know,
performance
issues
or
actual
misconduct,
I'm
not
sure
if
omi
even
addressed
them
or
has
a
record
of
them.
In
addition
to
the
misconduct,
complaints,
we
do
residency,
compliance.
Of
course,
police
are
no
longer.
You
know,
have
the
residency
requirement,
but
other
city
employees
do.
We
also
do
the
public
safety
background
investigations.
G
Likewise,
when
I
first
started
at
omi,
we
might
have
done
a
hand.
You
know
maybe
a
class
of
police
officers
or
a
class
of
firefighters
every
once
in
a
while.
Maybe
one
every
you
know
a
class
every
year
or
two
or
three:
we
are
now
doing
more
than
300
public
safety
background
investigations
in
a
single
calendar
year
with
about
the
same
size
staff
that
we
had
when
I
started
there
20
years
ago.
So
our
focus
is
a
little
bit
different
about
just
getting
the
work
done.
G
We
don't
necessarily
have
the
recommendations
like
an
independent
board
is
going
to
have
our
office
is
a
unique
hybrid
that
is
different
than
I
think.
Other
cities,
where
you
go
to
a
city
and
their
their
their
police
department,
has
an
internal
affairs
unit
that
handles
their
police
misconduct,
complaints,
and
then
you
probably
also
have
that
outside
citizen
oversight
organization
that
is
independent
from
that
police
department.
G
G
And
then
we
have,
I
guess,
we've
got
13
investigators,
five
of
them
are
civilians
and
the
others
are
police
detectives.
So
we
have
that
nice
mix
of
civilian
and
police
working
side
by
side,
so
when
they're
working
cases
and
everyone
is
expected
to
work
them
in
the
same
manner,
gathering
information
getting
as
much
evidence
as
they
can.
The
civilians
can
have
the
the
police
officers,
helping
them
gather
documents
they
might
not
otherwise
have
access
to,
but
at
the
same
time
they
have
that
they
can
have
that
discussion
about
how
things
might
work
in
reality.
G
So
on
the
complaint
side
once
we,
you
know,
like
that
said
each
case,
so
each
person
that
calls
in
so
say
valerie
calls
in
she
wants
to
file
a
complaint,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
she
has
three
or
four
allegations
one's
a
you
know
a
reason
for
a
traffic
stop
and
then
they
were
very
rude.
They
failed
to
identify
themselves,
and
maybe
there
was
an
issue
with
with
a
use
of
force
of
some
sort.
So
now
we've
got
for
for
your
case.
G
Valor
we've
got
four
allegations
based
on
the
facts
that
we
gather
during
that
investigation.
We
might
then
have
four
different
dispositions
as
part
of
that
one
case,
and
then
something
might
come
on
the
side
and
we
refer
to
it
as
collateral
misconduct
where,
when
we're
reviewing
that
case,
it's
nothing
that
you
alleged
but
we're
like.
Oh
that
officer
also
didn't
do
this.
G
This
type
of
report
over
here
so
now,
we've
got
a
fifth
allegation
that
we
have
to
mention
it's
nothing
that
you
knew
didn't
happen,
but
during
the
course
of
our
investigation
we
found
out
it
didn't
happen,
and
so
those
then
might
become
training
issues
for
that
officer.
You
know
maybe
we're
evaluating
this
and
it
could
have
been
resolved
by
having
the
body-worn
camera
on
and
they
didn't
turn
it
on.
G
G
When
we've
concluded
our
investigations
and
we
typed
up
the
final
report,
those
reports
are
sent
up
through
the
chain
of
command,
where
they
are
reviewed,
ultimately
by
the
chief
of
police,
who
agrees
with
us
or
disagrees
with
us,
but
sometimes
we've
had
along
the
way.
As
it
goes
up,
we
might
have
used
a
certain
policy
heading
which
later
on
someone
comes
back
to
us
and
says:
oh
well,
I
wouldn't
have
analyzed
it
under
conduct.
I'm
becoming
it's
more
specific
to
this
related
to
this
kind
of
thing.
G
So
we've
had
you
know
some
discussions
about
the
proper
coding
of
an
allegation,
but
once
they
review
our
reports,
then
they
determine
you
know
if
if
they
agree
with
their
findings,
if
they
concur
with
them,
if
it's
something
that's
sustained,
which
means
that
the
officer
was
found
to
a
violated
policy,
then
they
determine
what
the
discipline
is.
We
make
no
recommendations
in
regards
to
discipline.
G
So
there
have
been
a
few
times
we
might
have
made
recommendations.
Those
would
be
very
specific
to
we
have
a
set
of
facts
in
front
of
us
that
the
policy
a
policy
wasn't
developed
for
it
or
there
is
a
policy
that
really
just
isn't
as
specific
as
the
circumstances
we
find
ourselves,
but
those
those
have
been
few
and
far
between
and
a
lot
of
times.
Those
are
related
to
hr
policies
and
not
necessarily
police
policies.
G
But
you
know
we
get
those
when
we're
handling
other
investigations
regarding,
like
public
works
or
whatever
the
case
may
be.
We
are
not
a
named
member
of
this
city's
domestic
violence
review
board.
However,
we
oftentimes
are
the
first
ones
to
hear
that
maybe
a
city
employee
was
arrested
as
a
result
of
a
domestic
violence
incident,
because
the
bureau
is
required
to
report
that
to
us.
G
G
It's
comprised
of
a
representative
from
the
women's
center
and
shelter
public
safety
administration,
human
resources.
We
can
take
that
information
and
then
have
those
subject
matter.
Experts
evaluate
it
and
come
up
with
a
better
plan
than
say
you
know
a
director
of
public
works
or
a
pli
there.
They
don't
know
all
the
resources
that
might
be
available
to
a
city
employee's
family,
but
we've
been
leaving
it
up
to
them
to
decide
discipline
or
recommendations
related
to
domestic
violence.
G
So
I
think
we're
taking
a
more
holistic
approach
that
we
can
come
up
with
a
better
solution
than
here's
an
omi
finding.
What
are
you
going
to
do
with
it?
So
I
believe
that
our
work
with
them
has,
you
know,
helped
provide
a
more
you
know,
better
recommendations,
especially
to
the
family,
of
an
an
employee
that
was
involved
in
domestic
violence.
G
I
know
at
one
point
I
guess
it
was
emma
had
mentioned
about.
Officers
are
sometimes
faced
with
circumstances
where
a
social
worker
might
best
handle
that
situation.
G
Ultimately
they're
going
to
find
their
way
to
one
of
us
to
complain
about
that
interaction
because
they
are
dissatisfied
and
then
in
the
as
part
of
the
complaint
process.
We
find
ourselves
almost
in
the
same
boats
because
we're
not
subject
matter
experts
either
to
properly
provide
services
to
the
complainant,
who
might
need
services
beyond
an
omi
investigation.
They
might
need
help
from
the
department
on
aging
or
whatever
the
case
might
be.
So
that
would
be
nice
to
have
additional
resources
from
other
city
departments
to
provide
good
information
to
them.
G
That
I
I
just
don't
know
you
know
those
kind
of
things.
D
We
do
make
referrals
and
we
we
assist
people
in
accessing
services
through
the
county
department
of
human
services
so
that
we
can
hook
them
up
with
behavioral
health
supports
if
they
need
it
or
in
on
some
occasions
we
find
that
they
do
have
a
a
case
worker
or
a
therapist,
and
once
they
disclose
that
to
us.
We
give
a
heads
up
to
the
to
that
other
party
so
that
they
can,
you
know,
get
in
touch
with
their
client
and
perhaps
put
the
scaffolding
in
place
that
might
have
fallen
apart.
G
F
Aaron,
I
may
ask
a
question
sure
you
you
went
on
there
for
a
good
while
so
what's
missing
that
the
community
would
want
to
see
from
your
perspective
that
would
make
the
system
a
lot
more
effective,
a
lot
more
responsive
to
the
wishes
of
the
community
in
terms
of
being
a
more
effective
department
to
deal
with
complaints,
issues,
concerns
fears.
Whatever
do
you
have
any
specific
thoughts
to
that
as
a
recommendation
or
through
your
poor
recommendations?.
G
I
think,
oh
my
I
don't
know
because
I'm
there,
so
I
don't
know,
I'm
not
sure
what
the
community
would
need,
but
there
are
a
lot
more
avenues
in
which
to
file
a
complaint
that
there
might
have
been
before
you
know
now,
if,
if
things
are
picked
up
or
someone's
tagged
on
twitter,
especially
someone
in
the
mayor's
office,
complaints
are
finding
their
way
to
us.
We
have
tried
to
be
more
proactive.
G
We've
worked
with
the
city's
department
of
special
events,
so
when
there
have
been
community
events,
if
investigators
are
available,
we
have
tried
to
go
out
into
into
various
communities
around
the
city.
To
you
know,
provide
printed
materials
to
those
individuals
answer
any
questions.
If
they
want
to
file
a
complaint
there
we're
willing
to
do
so.
We
had
just
started
that
effort
pretty
much
the
calendar
year
of
2019.
G
I
think
we
attended
maybe
five
or
six
community
events,
but
of
course,
now
this
year,
we're
stifled,
because
a
lot
of
those
events
have
now
been
stifled
also
due
to
covid.
But
I'm
happy
to
enter
entertain
a
discussion
about
how
to
make
omi
more
accessible.
I
I
I
mean
if,
if
there's
a
complaint
of
with
an
officer
with
an
officer
or
anybody
and
you
deem
that
it's
necessary
to
make
some
kind
of
whether
it's
it's
a
suspension
for
the
for
the
officer
to
get
discipline,
what
what
power
do
you
have
to
to
make
that
happen
if
it's
needed.
G
So
omi's
role
is
not
to
make
recommendations
in
regards
to
discipline.
We
are
the
fact
finders
only
so
it
takes
us
out
of
having
a
stake
in
what
the
discipline
may
be.
So
all
we
do
is
the
resulting.
You
know
this.
This
allegation
might
be
sustained.
This
allegation
might
be
unfounded.
Now,
if
we're
sustaining
something,
there
would
be
something
mentioned
in
our
report,
possibly
if
it
existed
for
you
know,
prior
complaints
of
a
similar
nature
that
when
the
bureau
is
then
looking
at
discipline
in
addition
to
a
personnel
file
can
say
all
right.
G
E
E
What
we
feel
is
the
best
way
to
remedy
it
and
what
actions
should
be
taken,
and
we
put
that
in
writing
as
one
of
our
recommendations.
I
So
I
do
have
another
question
too.
Thank
you
in
reference
to
body
cam.
So
how
much?
How
much
is
the
da's
off
involved
with
if
there
is
an
issue
with
the
body
cam
that
the
officer
had
it
on
or
he
had
it
off
depending
on
his
investigation?
I
C
D
Yeah
well,
in
that
case,
it
would
be
investigated
by
allegheny
county
police
and
they
would
be
the
ones
that
would
be
determining
whether
there
was
cause
to
take
it
to
the
d.a
for
prosecution,
but
under
act
22
that
dealt
with
the
body
cam
access,
the
release
of
body
cam
is
comes
down
to
an
agreement
between
the
chief
of
police
attorney.
There
has
to
be
some
agreement
there
in
terms
of
how
it's
how
that's
handled,
but
if
it's
a
criminal
investigation,
it's
evidence
it
can't
be
withheld.
C
Okay,
this
is
valley,
dr
bullock.
Again,
if
we're
going
to
a
part
where
it's
a
lot
of
open
dialogue,
question
and
answer,
may
I
defer
to
you
to
continue
the
remainder
of
the
meeting
in
terms
of
looking
at
people
raise
their
hand.
J
Thank
you.
Thank
you
both
for
great
presentations
here.
I
do
have
a
number
of
questions,
some
for
both
of
you
and
some
for
just
one
of
you
I
mean
I.
I
think
I
want
to
say
first
that
it's
important
to
understand
that
the
complaints
filed,
especially
complaints
filed
with
omi,
are
not
a
reflection
of
a
rate
of
wrongdoing
or
a
rate
of
misconduct
that
complaints
are
only
filed
when
people
believe
that
the
system
works
and
it's
important.
I
think,
to
keep
that
in
mind.
J
If
people
don't
have
confidence
in
one
or
another
aspect
of
a
complaint
system,
they
won't
file
complaints.
So
that's,
I
think,
a
baseline
concern
that
we
have
to
keep
in
mind.
J
I'm
going
to
try
to
ask
you
all
the
questions
that
I
keep
hearing
as
we
do
our
our
work
here
and
as
we've
done
our
work
here
over
the
last
couple
of
months.
First
one
might
be
for
aaron.
I
guess
why
is
there
such
a
low,
sustained
rate
among
all
of
the
complaints
that
are
filed?
Second
question
I
think,
might
be
for
both
beth
and
aaron.
Why
are
there
overlapping
agencies
now?
J
I
know
the
history
of
this
and
I
and
your
and
beth's
recitation
of
it
was
a
very
good
one
today,
and
I
think
you
know
one
answer
would
be
something
like
you
know:
people
just
simply
did
not
trust
the
internal
system
and
they
created
democratically
created
the
cprb,
but
I
would
be
glad
to
hear
your
thoughts
about
that.
J
Third
question:
we
keep
hearing
is
related
to
one
of
richard's
questions,
which
is:
would
you
be
better
off
as
an
agency?
Should
we
push
for
or
desire
you
to
have
the
power
to
impose
discipline?
I
think
they're
very
much
two
sides
to
that
question,
but
I
think
people
are
wondering
that
and
I'll
end
with
this
one
I've
been
reading
the
annual
reports
of
the
police
department
for
one
of
the
committees,
I'm
working
on
here
on
eliminating
racial
disparities.
J
There's
one
page
in
this
report.
Please
excuse
my
my
scribbling
on
it
about
disciplinary
actions
and
it
said
that
there
were
97,
total
disciplinary
actions
against
officers
in
2019
and
it
simply
lists
them.
It
gives
no
narrative
information,
doesn't
say
out
of
how
many
there's
really
nothing
that
a
member
of
the
public
could
tell
from
this.
J
As
far
as
what's
going
on
within
the
police
department
and
a
major
complaint
and
a
major
mystery
to
members
of
the
public
we
talk
to
is
that
they
don't
think
that
there's
a
real
functioning
disciplinary
process
in
the
police
department
and
in
omi,
and
they
want
to
know
that
it's
there
do
you
favor,
either
of
you
more
information
going
out
to
the
public
as
a
way
to
sustain
accountability
and
for
greater
transparency.
I
know
that's
a
lot.
I
hope
we
can
get
some
answers
to
those
four
questions.
Thank
you
very
much.
G
D
Yeah-
and
I
would
concur
with
with
what
aaron
just
described-
here's
here's
an
example
in
in
2019
our
board
disposed
of,
and
that
just
means
they
looked
at
it.
They
looked
at
what
we
had
and
determined
that
these
cases
were
not
going
to
go
any
further
596
allegations.
D
People
also
seem
to
not
be
well
informed
as
to
what
the
role
of
police
in
the
community
is
and
then
why
some
decisions
are
made
by
cops
on
the
scene
that
that's
not
compatible
with
the
with
the
observer's
view,
and
then
that
leads
to
a
complaint.
I
can
tell
you-
and
I
think,
aaron
might
agree
with
this.
We
get
a
lot
of
complaints
about
people
being
stopped
and
alleging
that
you
know
they
were
profiled.
D
Your
facts
end
up
showing
you
that
there
was
a
legitimate
mechanical
problem
with
the
vehicle
that
caused
the
it
wasn't
pretextual.
There
was
a
legitimate
reason
for
the
stop
upon
stop.
It's
discovered
that
the
driver
did
not
have
an
operator's
license.
That
was
valid
for
the
last
10
15
years
that
the
car
wasn't
registered
and
there
was
no
insurance.
D
People
are
furious
because
we
can't
help
them
with
that.
The
reality
is
that
side
of
the
the
complaint
invest
equation.
There's
an
irresponsibility
on
one
side
here
that
led
to
the
other
side
getting
involved
in
it.
The
cop
the
outcome
is
not
is
not
they
don't
the
person
doesn't
like
the
outcome
of
it,
but
there
was
nothing.
There
was
no
misconduct
or
we
have
a
complaint.
We
may
get
a
complaint
about
someone
being
told
to
get
out
of
the
way
you
know.
There's
this
thing
that
cops
refer
to
as
command
and
control
language.
D
Most
of
us
would
say
it's
coarse
and
it's
harsh
and
and
yeah.
Sometimes
it
is
but
aaron.
You
may
recall
this
one
through
there
was
a
shooting
in
a
garage
on
the
north
side
and
there
was
a
an
by
a
passerby
on
a
bicycle
who
stopped
across
from
the
entrance
to
the
garage.
D
The
cop
was
forcefully
told
her.
You
know
get
out
of
here:
go
down
the
road
do
something
he
was
yelling
at
her
to
get
out
of
there.
There
had
been
a
shooting
and
the
shooter
was
not
in
custody.
At
that
point
she
complained
because
the
officer
was
unbecoming.
He
was
rude.
He
was
this.
He
was
that
in
that
situation
she
was
you
know
legitimately.
She
got
scolded,
but
the
facts
warranted
that
she
get
out
of
that
area
because
it
wasn't
safe
for
her
to
be
there.
D
We
find
in
the
last
the
last
two
years
the
complaints
seem
to
be
inching
up
again,
but
they
say
226
complaints.
I
believe
it
was
last
year
no
246
226
the
year
before
and
those
are
those
are
still
low.
When
you
look
back
to
where
we
came
from
with
600
400
300
400
300
that
we
saw
much
higher.
So
what
we're
seeing
is
that
there
are
also
fewer
complaints.
Maybe
that's
what
you're
suggesting
david
legitimacy
question,
but
because
you
say
it
so
doesn't
make
it
so
facts
matter.
D
We
live
in
a
world
of
facts
and
we
are
required
to
stay
in
the
middle
so
that
nobody,
you
know
coming
into
it
you
know,
is
going
to
feel
there's
fear
or
favor
when
they
come
to
our
office.
It's
going
to
be.
This
is
what
the
facts
are
and
that's
that
and
we
give
it
to
dr
darby
and
her
team
at
the
board
and
they
make
the
ultimate
decision.
D
But
I
think
that
it's
there
has
been
an
improvement
in
the
police
practices,
their
philosophy,
the
way
they
conduct
themselves.
There
has
been
a
concerted
effort
to
professionalize
the
training
it
has.
It
has
elevated
the
dynamics
of
the
training
are
much
more
professional
than
in
the
past.
It's
all
growing.
It's
becoming
a
real
professional
department.
D
D
Is
it
time
to
consider
creating
contractual
agreements
between
the
administration,
the
chief
executive
and
the
mayor
and
and
a
police
chief
for
a
term
that
will
lapse
into
the
second
term
or
a
new
person's
term
so
that
you
take
the
political
influence
away
from
it
that
the
chief
is
not
expected
to
implement
or
fulfill
a
political
agenda?
D
D
D
D
D
D
What
are
the
tertiary
effects
of
their
role
as
an
arbiter
when
it
comes
to
a
police
contract
yeah?
But
that's
this
whole
other
system,
but
that
denigrates
the
whole
integrity
of
what
the
public
sees
in
terms
of
outcomes
with
cops
that
grieve
a
discipline
or
get
back
on
the
job
because
of
an
arbitrator,
but
as
far
as
the
board
goes,
if
they
were
to
make
a
decision
had
a
terminal
effect.
It
was
the
end
result
and
it
was
the
the
disciplinary
disposition
of
a
situation
and
that
discipline
was
enforced.
K
Yes,
hi,
thank
you
and
I
apologize.
I
I
am.
I
did
want
to
continue
a
little
bit
with
what
richard
started
with
his
question
earlier
and
david's,
which
it
sounds
like
you're
making.
The
argument
that
you
know
increased
powers
to
discipline
or
to
enforce
recommendations
on
the
part
of
the
cprb
has
it's.
K
I
guess,
there's
trade-offs
in
terms
of
independence,
but
then
let
me
just
push
back
with
you
on
that,
then.
Can
I
just
ask:
how
does
one
increase
the
effectiveness
of
the
cprb
to
implement
change
with
the
pvp
sl
and
the
fop
for
that
matter
and
increase
confidence
of
the
public,
because
I
feel
like
that's.
The
issue
is
that
without
enforcement
powers
on
the
part
of
the
cprb,
a
lot
of
people
question
well
to
be
blunt.
What
what
good
is
it
is
that
does
that
make
sense,
beth.
D
Yeah,
it
makes
sense,
and
it's
also
very
offensive,
but
not
from.
D
D
If
you
were
to
ask
the
chief
of
police,
if
they,
if
the
chief
thought
we
were
effective
or
you
want
to
ask
the
sergeant
that
we've
been
working
with
and
in
terms
of
the
policy
reviews
and
that
sort
of
thing,
but
I
don't
know
what
the
public
means
by
effectiveness:
effectiveness
that
comes
that
comes
at
the
ballot
box.
Your
effectiveness
is
what
you
have
entrusted
to
your
elected
officials
and,
if
something's
not
effective.
D
D
Your
what
is
the
suggestion
is,
is
that
this
board
somehow
should
usurp
that
power
from
the
chief
of
police
and
enforce
discipline
on
officers
when
that
board
is
not
a
part
of
that
working
agreement
that
employment
lineage
the
line,
they
have
no
employment
relationship
to
the
cops
they're
they're.
You
know,
they're
a
third
party
observer.
D
The
employment
and
then
you
can
get
technical
about
it
too
and
say
well,
look
at
you
got
labor
laws.
You
have
cbas,
you
have
arbitration,
you
have
the
only
person,
people
that
can
enter
into
a
negotiation
of
a
contract
with
the
fop
is
the
mayor,
not
the
board
I
get
it
becomes.
It
becomes.
What
do
we
mean
by
effective
and
stepping
in
to
enforce
discipline?
D
Now,
if
you
want
to
create
a
board
of
like
they
used
to
have
the
trial
board
and
put
some
civilians
on
it
and
and
and
make
that
the
the
proxy
for
the
chief,
you
know
sure
think
about
doing
that.
But
it's
not
going
to
be
it's
not
going
to
be
an
independent
oversight
function
as
opposed
to
a
part
of
the
employment
relationship
and
supervisory
capacity
of
those
officers.
G
Well,
I
think
there's
many
times
that
officers
are
being
disciplined
and
it's
not
because
of
a
citizen
complaint
right
then
it
also
becomes
how
are
like
they're
managing
the
discipline,
but
now
it's
like,
but
they're
they're
doing
dars
that
aren't
with
the
result
of
a
citizen
complaint.
So
where
are
the?
Where
are
those
gonna
who's
gonna
handle
those
then.
G
Every
director
is
going
to
handle
discipline
for
their
employees
because
it's
a
performance
related
issue,
but
are
we
going
to
take
that
from
all
directors,
because
they've
got
performance
issues
now,
whoever
is
going
to
handle
discipline
for
the
city?
Are
they
going
to
handle
it
all
every
car
accident,
every
failure
to
call
it
for
missed
court
who's
handing
out
handling
all
of
it.
E
Effectiveness
is
something
that
is
very
difficult
to
define,
but
one
of
the
ways
we
can
measure
it
is
the
number
of
individuals
who
come
to
our
meetings
and
those
who
are
most
affected
are
the
ones
who
come
to
the
meetings
and
we
move
the
meetings
around
the
city
so
that
we
can
be
in
all
areas
of
the
city,
and
you
know
people
can't
say
they
can't
get
downtown
or
whatever
the
case
may
be.
E
But
I
would
also
like
to
add
that,
in
terms
of
effectiveness,
now
that
we've
gone
on
zoom,
we've
had
as
many
as
40
people
in
our
meetings
and
that's
quadrupled
the
numbers
of
individuals
who
generally
with
10.
So
I
think
in
some
ways,
they're
interested
in
issues,
but
still
finding
the
time
to
be
more
directly
involved
has
not
always
been
there,
but
it's
easier
for
them
to
get
on
zoom
and
they're.
In
our
meetings
every
month
now,.
K
I
guess,
when
I
say
effectiveness,
the
way
at
least
I
perceive
it
or
many
others
I
think
perceive
it
is
the
ability
to
galvanize
change
cultural
change
as
well
as
change
in
terms
of
how
police
are
interacting
with
the
citizens
of
the
city
of
pittsburgh
and
reductions
in
use
of
force
when
it's
not
necessary
and
so
forth.
I
think
that,
and
so,
if
you
had
more
discipline,
disciplinary
sort
of
power,
it's
the
carrot
and
the
stick.
If
that
makes
sense,
it's
how
I
interpret
it.
K
G
K
L
Thank
you.
So,
first
of
all,
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
to
to
both
of
you
for
the
clarification
and
I'm
still
trying
to
get
my
head
around
some
of
these
aspects
of
findings
versus
no
findings,
not
necessarily
a
finding
of
misconduct
like
the
evidence
is,
is
not
there.
So
I
want
to
go
back
to
this
issue
of
racial
profiling,
so
I
get
what
you're
saying
like
in
terms
of
the
traffic
stop.
L
You
know
there
is
that
mechanical
issue,
and
that
is
the
reason
why
the
person
was
stopped,
but
it
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
there
wasn't
some
type
of
profiling
like
the
choice
to
stop
that
particular
vehicle
could
still
be
related
to
profiling,
and
so,
when
we
talk
about
these
relationships
with
the
community
and
then
instilling
trust
between
community
and
police,
when
you
have
still
that
layer
of
discretion
in
terms
of
which
vehicles
do
and
do
not
get
stopped,
even
if
everything
else
is
on
board,
I
I
guess
I'm
just
trying
to
figure
out
like
so
then:
where
does
the
cpr
be
fit
with
within
that
discretion
to
stop
or
not
stop,
even
though
there's
no
misconduct
once
the
stop
happens,.
D
D
D
Whether
or
not
the
vehicle
is
ins,
it's
first
if
it
has
a
current
inspection
or
if
there
is
a
visible
mechanical
defect
on
the
vehicle
like
broken
lights,
mismatched
tires
fender,
rubbing
things
that
make
the
car
under
the
motor
vehicle
code
of
pennsylvania
non-roadworthy.
F
But
all
we're
saying
is
sometimes
an
officer
will
stop
somebody
who's
black
when
they
may
not
stop
somebody
who's
white
for
the
exact
same
issue
when,
as
we
you
and
I
go
back
to
the
death
of
johnny
gammage,
if
johnny
gammage
was
not
an
african-american
and
a
dark-skinned
african-american
at
that
at
quarter,
two
in
the
morning
going
to
a
very
white
community.
If
he
had
been
blonde
and
blue
I'd
drive
an
expensive
car,
would
he
have
been
stopped
at
all.
H
Even
if
he
wasn't
driving
an
expensive
car
would
he
have
been
stopped
at
all,
and
I
apologize
before
in
interjecting
him,
but
one
of
the
things
that
I
want
to
say
from
what
I'm
hearing
that
you're
saying
is
that
the
officer
has
a
not
not
uten
that
that
the
officer
has
a
duty
to
uphold
this.
H
I
don't
disagree
that
there
are
laws
that
need
to
be
followed,
but
if
we
look
at
who
is
financially
better
off
in
this
city
in
particular,
you
are
going
to
have
more
black
people
driving
cars
that
can
be
considered,
not
road
worthy
for
some
reason
and
and
then
additionally,
if
you
did
have
a
white
male
who
was
driving
a
car
that
was
deemed
not
road
worthy
they're,
still
not
going
to
have
the
same
outcome
regardless.
I
mean
we
see
that
that's
in
the
data.
H
From
what
I'm
hearing
you
say
about
misconduct,
I'm
starting
to
question.
Well,
what
is
proper
conduct
then,
because,
if
you're
not
finding
this
conduct
in
these
things,
that
are
clearly
misconduct,
then
what
is
the
actual
conduct
that
needs
to
happen?
What
I
I'm
I'm
getting
lost
in
that
I
apologize
if
you've
already
answered
it,
but
that's
where
I
am.
D
The
violation
would
be
related
to
the
vehicle
and
not
necessarily
who's
driving
the
vehicle.
My
example
was
when
people
come
in
and
they
feel
that
they
were
profiled,
but
there
is
there
is
evidence
and
it's
reasonable
evidence
that
the
vehicle
stopped
was
legitimate
and
then
it
leads
to
the
other
paper
violations,
the
license,
insurance,
etc.
D
The
officer
has
an
obligation
to
manage
that
situation,
which
would
include
having
that
vehicle
parked
or
towed
and
making
sure
the
person
can
get
to
wherever
they're
going
safely
with
their
citations.
If
that's
what
ends
up
happening
because
somebody
says
they
were
profiled,
my
only
point
is
somebody
says
they
were
profiled.
It
doesn't
always
mean
they
were
profiled.
H
D
D
That
would
collect
all
of
that
information
that
was
randomly
audited.
We
did
that
in
you
know.
We
don't
do
it
right
now,
but
we
have
done
that
where
we
have
pulled
the
audits
or
the
daily
activity
sheets,
when
we
have
a
complaint
that
gives
us
a
bunch
of
those
sheets
and
we
look
to
see
what
does
the
pattern
look
like
here
for
this
particular
officer?
D
I
Yes,
working
the
population,
I
work
with
a
segment
of
the
population
that
that
that
would
would
refute
everything
that
you
just
said
before.
I'm
not
I'm
not
coming,
I'm
not
coming
at
you
or
or
aaron
in
any
way,
or
am
I
even
even
bashing
the
police,
but
there
are
some
things
that
happen,
especially
in
in
some
of
the
communities
that
we
work
in.
You
know
that
that
guys
will
get
stopped
based
on
whatever
the
car
that
kind
of
car
that
they
got.
I
If
it's
a
nice
car
you
know
and
all
those
different
things
they
don't
report,
some
of
the
things
that
go
on.
You
know
that
some
of
the
officers
might
might
engage
in
and
not
in
conversation,
but
you
give
them
a
ticket
or
something
like
that.
You
know-
and
I
understand
both
where
both
you
and
aaron
are
coming
from,
but
you
know:
there's
there's,
there's
a
segment
of
this
population.
That
is
talking
about
that.
C
Richard
that
that
the
fact
is,
I'm
sorry,
aaron
has
been
trying
several
times
to
chime
in
and
she.
G
Every
single
meeting
I
was
trying
to
answer:
what
patricia
is
it
angela?
I
lost
your
picture
on
the
top
of
my
screen
when
you
were
asking
that,
and
that
did
start
a
traffic,
stop
reports
and
the
fact
that
this
information
is
reported
back
now.
If
we
get
a
complaint
that
there
is
an
allegation
made
about
racial
bias
and
yes,
they
are
there's.
The
allegation
is
sophisticated.
It's
not
going
to
be
something
as
blatant
as
a
use
of
force
where
you
can
see
something
physically
happening.
G
This
is
something
that
is.
It
is
based
on
the
totality
of
the
circumstances
and
the
other
facts.
We
can
check
the
officer's
stats
as
it
relates
to
traffic
stops,
particularly
in
the
area
that
they
patrol
to
see
if
it
is
out
of
bounds
compared
to
other
similarly
situated
officers
as
well.
As
you
know,
our
databases
do
collect
information
on
officers
histories
so
that
specific
to
something
like
to
a
racial
bias
complaint.
G
We
can
we're
going
to
refer
as
part
of
the
credibility
assessment
to
go
back
and
check
that
officer's
prior
complaint
history
to
see
if
there's
something
similar
in
nature,
and
it's
not
to
say
that
this
isn't
happening.
But
it's
also
to
say
that
we're
not
going
to
have
physical
evidence
like
we
do
in
other
cases.
G
H
That's
what
I
like,
but
not
not
entirely,
but
it
does
give
me
a
bit
better
of
a
picture,
and
I
thank
you
for
taking
the
time
to
explain
it.
I
know
that
I
have
just
two
things
and
I'm
gonna.
Let
it
rest
one
is:
how
diverse
are
the
group
of
people
that
review
these
complaints?
What
communities
are
they
from
and
what
do
they
reflect,
because
I
think
that
there
may
also
be
bias
in
those
who
are
looking
over
the
complaints
of
being
profiled
so
who,
who
is
doing
that?
Are
they
impartial?
H
Do
we
know
that
for
sure
what
are
their
backgrounds
and
and
then
how
do
we
best
optimize
this
moving
forward,
because
it
sounds
like
if
what's
happening?
Is
that
a
complaint
is
it's
taking
a
long
time?
It's
not
optimized
and
there's
room
for
improvement,
and
that's
something
that
I
think
is
within
our
will
health
to
take
care
of
now
and
and
really
necessary.
H
And
those
are
my
two
things
they
were
together,
but
it
wasn't
one
thought
those
were.
Those
were.
The
two
you
know
is
the
group
that
looks
over
these
complaints.
Is
it
a
diverse
group
where
there's
going
to
help
to
eliminate
some
bias
and
then
also,
how
do
we
optimize
this
review
so
that
these
reviews
don't
take
long
because,
at
least
for
me
speaking,
I
can't
speak
on
behalf
of
everyone,
but
if
I
knew
that
there
was
an
officer
who
had
multiple
complaints
behind
them
and
they
were
still
doing
traffic
stops,
I
would
be
terrified.
H
You
don't
need
to
go
run
through
all
the
demographics,
but
I'm
sure
it
is
diverse,
but
you
know
what
I'm
asking
is
the
people
who
receive
these
complaints
does
it
go
to,
and
I
apologize
if
you've
explained
this
I've
been
in
and
out
of
being
able
to
fully
focus
is.
Are
the
people
who
who
review
this
are?
Are
they?
Is
it
like?
A
few
people?
It's
multiple
people
did
everyone
have
to
come
on
a
consensus?
D
D
We
have
dr
mary,
jo
guercio,
who
is
with
community
college
of
allegheny
county.
She
is
a
white
female.
We
have
dr
emma
lucas
darby,
who
is
our
professor
emeritus
chair?
Who
is
an
african-american
female?
D
Did
I
forget
someone,
dr
darvey?
No,
that's
it!
That's
it
and
we
have
our
council,
our
council,
who
is
a
white
male
now.
It's
important
to
note
is
that
over
the
last
23
years
that
demographic
component
has
changed
several
times,
you
know
sometimes
it's
there's,
maybe
one
white
person
on
the
board,
sometimes
there's
three
or
four
or
five
african-american
people
on
the
board.
I
mean
it
varies
according
to
the
appointments
that
are
made
as
terms
come
due.
F
D
F
H
D
F
N
Sir
hi
thanks
both
of
you
for
being
here
just
to
follow
up
on
that.
I
don't
want
to
be
worse
on
this
on
the
racial
profiling
issue,
but
I
would
just
kind
of
say
to
all
of
our
team
on
the
task
force.
My
impression
of
it
is
racial.
Profiling
is
a
problem
here
in
pittsburgh.
It's
probably
all
across
the
country,
the
current
systems
that
we
have
in
place.
N
I
mean,
I
think
these
two
offices
do
an
amazing
job
with
the
tools
that
they
have,
but
perhaps
the
system
that's
in
place
is
not
set
up
to
properly
address
these
things
and
that's
part
of
what
we're
here
to
do.
It
may
not
be
that
these
offices
are
the
ones
that
are
gonna,
get
to
the
heart
of
that
specific
issue.
They
might
get
to
the
heart
of
the
other
of
the
disciplinary
issues.
So
that's
just
my
two
cents.
N
Let
me
comment
on
that,
but
this
is
a
totally
different
topic,
but
beth
you
mentioned
in
your
introduction.
You
were
talking
about
recommendations
that
you
have
made
on
different
issues
like
written
tests.
You
changed
that
and
you
mentioned
wellness,
and
that
is
part
of
what
the
task
force
is
looking
at.
So
I'm
just
curious.
If
you
have
either
written
recommendations
or
you
don't
have
to
go
through
it
now,
but
maybe
offline,
you
could
send
me
what
those
are
so
that
we
can
make
sure
we
take
them
into
account
when
we
do
that.
D
N
M
Thank
you
and
thank
you
both
for
being
here
this
evening.
My
question
relates
to
what
your
recommendations
would
be
to
increase
transparency.
This
kind
of
relates
to
a
question
that
david
had
as
well
that
you're
looking
at
number
of
the
claims
that
have
been
unsustained
or
unfounded.
M
I
think
when
you,
you
start
to
look
at
that
or
the
public
looks
at
that,
and
perhaps
they
don't
understand
all
of
the
work
that's
going
on
behind
the
scene.
But
if
there's
not
a
level
of
transparency,
then
there's
not
going
to
be
a
level
of
trust,
and
you
know
I'm
kind
of
referring
to
the
article
that
appeared
in
public
source
as
well.
That
was
illustrating
the
number
of
claims
versus
the
number
of
claims
that
were
sustained,
and
so
what
is
that?
D
G
G
We
might
mail
it
out
to
them
whether
they
have
moved
or
something
or
some
a
lot
of
times.
We
do
get
letters
back.
We
no
longer
send
them
certified
mail
because
we
know
that
sometimes
that
was
a
deterrent
to
being
picked
up,
but
we
do
get
them
returned.
As
you
know,
undeliverable
the
person
that
felt
they
were
wrong,
they're,
getting
an
explanation
and
a
disposition
letter
back,
but
sometimes
it's
their
their
confidential
personnel
records,
and
so
they
remain
in
the
personnel
file.
D
Yeah
yeah,
we
we
hear,
especially
in
the
last
few
weeks,
about
how
we
are
here
for
the
people
only
and
that's
not
true-
we're
here
to
be
in
an
impartial
objective
fact-finding
group,
with
the
wisdom
of
our
board,
looking
at
the
outcome
of
investigations
and
determining
whether
this
should
go
forward
or
it
should
be
resolved
or
if
there
should
be
a
bit
of
advice
offered
to
the
chief
related
to
a
particular
complaint.
D
We
have
a
duty
to
to
to
provide
that
objective,
impartial
evaluation.
D
That
is
also
aware
and
respects
due
process
rights
of
the
complainants,
as
well
as
the
police
officers
who
are
accused
that
doesn't
set
well
with
a
lot
of
folks.
I
know
that
that's
why,
if
both
sides
are
ticked
off
at
the
at
the
board,
we're
doing
exactly
what
we're
supposed
to
be
doing
and
we're
not
going
to
waver
from
that.
D
I've
had
calls
I've
had
criticisms,
we've
had
unpleasant
treaties
in
the
last
five
or
six
weeks
related
to
our
recognizing
police
officers,
who
have
done
well
have
done
a
good
thing
for
the
community
that
have
contributed
to
the
community
that
are
long-standing
officers
with
with
you
know,
public
reputations
that
people
have
respected,
and
I've
been
taken
to
task
for
that
that
I
shouldn't
be
doing
that,
and
that's
just
not
fair
to
the
process,
because
we
have
a
lot
of
people
in
the
community
that
support
the
board
that
are
also
you
know
both
sides,
both
both
sides
in
the
turn,
in
the
sense
of
a
large
number
of
people
in
our
town,
support
law
enforcement.
D
D
So,
anyway,
our
records
are
investigative
records.
They
are
not
public
records,
they
are
sealed
under
the
pennsylvania
right
to
know.
We
do
tell
our
complainants
the
outcomes.
If
officers
want
to
know,
we
tell
them
as
well
so
that
those
parties
that
are
involved
in
that
particular
dispute
are
aware
of
the
outcome
we
put.
We
publish
numbers
we're
very
vague
in
that
our
monthly
board
meetings
include
an
agenda
that
gives
a
blurb
as
to
what
the
essence
of
the
complaint
is
that
the
board
is
reviewing.
D
We
have
our
case
summaries
that
are
redacted
from
any
personally
identifiable
or
demographically
identifiable
information
unless
that
information
is
material
to
the
facts
of
that
case
or
complaint,
so
I
mean
back
to
the
profiling
thing.
We
would
not
include
the
race
or
the
gender
well,
gender
is
probably
more
commonly
included,
but
the
the
racial
demographics
involved
in
a
complaint
unless
it
was
an
allegation
of
profiling,
where
the
materiality
of
the
race
of
the
officer
accused
and
the
complainant
are
material
to
assessing
the
facts
so
that
we
protect
our
board
also,
they
also
recuse.
D
If
there
is
an
issue
related
to
someone,
they
may
know
they
can
recuse
from
from
dealing
with
that
particular
complaint.
But
again,
even
those
complaints
to
the
board
are
masked
so
that
nobody's
exposed
or
information
is
betraying
a
party.
That's
guaranteed
confidentiality,
because
it's
investigative
in
nature,
if
there's
a
public
hearing
there
are
those
are
videotaped.
D
All
those
things
are
posted
on
our
website,
which
is
cprvpgh.org
anything
and
everything
that
is
public
in
our
house
we
put
out
there,
we
have
actually
I'm
going
to
just
say
we
backed
off
of
our
facebook
postings
because
we
were
getting
slammed
by
community
activists
because
we
were
showing
both
sides
of
the
story
which
has
been
our
history.
D
We
always
try
to
balance
it
out,
so
we
stop,
but
guess
what
we
got
suspended
from
twitter
and
we
don't
know
why
you
have
to
do
something
pretty
bad
to
get
suspended
on
twitter
and
we've
been
suspended
since
april,
and
we
have
absolutely
no
idea
why.
But
we
have.
Our
website
has
been
hacked
a
few
times
and
then
the
outcome
has
been
disastrous
and
it
takes
a
long
time
to
rebuild
it.
D
M
I
I
understand
that
you
know
you
certainly
have
the
requirements
and
the
confidentiality
I
guess
I
I
was
looking
for
you
know
if
you
had
recommendations
about
how.
Perhaps
this
is
your
recommendation
around
having
a
community
liaison
in
your
office
to
be
able
to
better
explain
and
convey
what
limitations
you
have
in
your
work,
and
you
know
what
you
can
share,
but
looking
at
how
we
increase
the
transparency
and
trust,
to
the
extent
that
transparency
can
be
extended,
but
certainly
trust
as
well
yeah.
Thank
you.
A
F
Looking
from
the
perspective,
you
look
to
get
around
this
issue,
because
this
issue
brings
a
lot
of
upset
on
the
part
of
the
public
and
a
absence,
an
absence
of
trust
in
the
system,
even
when
an
officer
probably
did
some
pretty
bad
things,
but
the
fop
seems
so
strong
that
they
bring
them
back.
That's
one
of
my
questions:
do
you
have
any
comment
on
that
or
a
recommendation
of
how
to
get
around
it.
D
I
D
D
Are
our
arbiters?
They
oftentimes,
because
there's
generally
a
tripartite
panel
that
handles
the
grievances
and
the
city
and
picks
one
the
fop
picks
one,
and
then
they
both
agree
on
the
third
neutral
arbiter
they're,
the
ones
that
make
the
decisions
that
put
people
back
on
the
jobs.
If
the
rules
are
clear
and
the
rules
are
followed,
then
the
arbiters
really
shouldn't
have
very
much
work
to
do.
D
When
we
look
at
some
of
the
egregious
cases
that
have
happened
in
the
city
and
officers
have
been,
you
know,
put
back
on
the
job
right,
try
it
with
the
privilege
that
you
have,
as
this
task
force,
try
to
get
the
records
from
the
arbitrations
from
the
last
say
five
years
see
if
the
city
showed
up
every
time
see
what
the
evidence
was
or
wasn't
that
was
presented
at
an
arbitration
hearing,
because
remember
at
those
hearings,
the
only
thing
that
exists
is
what's
put
on
the
table
at
that
time.
D
It's
closed
right.
I
mean
it's
closed
in
terms
of
facts.
You
don't
get
to
you
know
to
go
fishing
about
anything.
So
if
you
don't
put
the
facts
into
that
arbitration
hearing,
your
outcome
is
going
to
be
different.
So
if
it's
in
somebody's
interest
to
forget
about
maybe
the
20
times
the
officer
did
it
before
and
that
doesn't
go
in
there,
then
there's
not
going
to
be
a
pattern
of
misconduct,
recognized
so
what's
the
arbiter
see,
so
that
is
a
whole
system.
That's
like
the
third
part.
To
this
whole
situation,
we're
dealing
with
police
accountability.
F
F
How
the
cpr
b
has
been
marketed
over
the
years,
because
there
probably
is
an
assumption
on
the
part
of
many
people
in
the
public
that
the
cprp
by
its
nature,
is
supposed
to
be
for
the
people
quote
unquote
versus
objectively
trying
to
find
what
happened,
what
didn't
who's
right
and
who's
wrong?
So
I'm
just
you,
don't
have
to
respond
to
that,
but
I'm
just
saying
that
might
be
something
for
you
and
the
board
chair
and
the
board
to
look
at
in
your
staff.
F
Is
there
a
way
to
remarket
so
that
people
know
that
you
you're
not
to
go
in
with
an
automatic
preference
towards
the
community
side
or
the
police
side?
Third
question
is
the
body
cam,
and
this
is
one
of
our
recommendations,
I'm
on
three
subcommittee,
which
one,
but
maybe
the
use
of
force
at
this
moment.
F
J
F
F
Things
like
that,
yes,
that
could
be
defined
even
on
paper,
but
something
of
that
nature,
where
it's
not
anything,
really
dramatic.
I'm
going
to
have
my
inspection
tomorrow.
If
they
stop
me
right
now,
I'm
actually
over,
because
I
keep
working
too
hard
on
this
task
force,
but
anyway,
11
o'clock
happy
good
year.
D
Right,
I
I
get
what
you're
suggesting
tim
and
it
would
remove
an
influence
that
escalates
situations
sometimes,
but
the
reality
is
the
person
driving
the
vehicle.
D
F
I
didn't
say
that
I
did
not
say
that
a
different
way.
I
did
not
say
that
what
I
said
was
often
the
interaction
itself
creates
stuff,
like
your
reason
for
your
license,
and
somebody
shoot
you
because
they
thought
you
were
reaching
for
a
gun
and
it
may
have
been.
It
may
have
started
with
a
broken
tail
light.
All
I'm
saying
is
right
right.
If
we
can
come
up
with
some
moments
or
situations
where
the
person
just
gets
a
ticket
in
the
mail.
F
And
the
part
of
which,
as
patricia
comes
up
the
one
follow-up
I
had
and
I
know
beth
you
mentioned
the
racial
mix-up,
not
mix-up,
but
makeup
make-up
of
your
board.
Aaron.
Does
the
paid
staff
of
the
pittsburgh
viewer
police
analyze,
the
data
that
came
out
of
the
original
consent
decree
and
then
reinforce
out
of
the
jordan
miles
legislation?
G
F
Lastly,
chuck
pascetti
beth,
you
said
had
one
other
recommendation
that
he
was
wanting
you
to
to
talk
about.
Is
that
correct.
D
Yeah
he
he
brought
up
his
ideas
concept
of
what
would
be
known
as
a
public
witness
model
of
accountability.
Actually,
it's
public
witness
for
any
critical
incident
that
may
occur
and
would
involve.
I
think
I
think
I
would
prefer
to
defer
to
him.
You
might
want
to
invite
him
tim.
I
I
D
About
this
for
a
long
time,
but
it
remove
it,
it
moves
it
out
of
the
bureaucracy
completely
and
and
has
some
great
potential
and
a
public
advocate.
It
can
be
a
very
powerful
tool
of
objectivity.
F
Is
that
I
I
did
talk
to
him
briefly
late
last
night
and
is
that
something
that
he
could-
and
I
know
you
all-
have
a
relationship
that
goes
back
all
three
of
us
for
a
couple
decades
that
maybe
he
could
get
a
synopsis
before
this
task
force
is
finished
that
could
be
possibly
considered.
E
D
Yes,
I
thank
you.
If
you
reach
out
to
him,
I'm
sure
he
would
be
he'd
be
happy
to
do
that.
H
Thank
you
to
tim
for
bringing
that
point
up.
I
appreciate
it
and
one
of
the
things
that
and
also
beth
and
aaron
for
answering
the
questions
so
clearly.
Thank
you
just
to
circle
back
to
what
I
was
saying,
and
I
think
this
is
what
sharon
was
saying
at
first
and
then
bobby
as
well
was
how
can
we
optimize
that?
H
What
can
we
do?
Do
you
have
recommendations
on
optimizing?
What
it
is
that
you
do
maybe
some
of
the
things
that
you're
expected
to
do
in
service
for
the
community
that
you're
not
capable
of
maybe
the
answer,
may
be
as
simple
that
there
is
actually
a
committee
that
is
strictly
for
service
to
the
community.
Maybe
that's
something
that
needs
to
be
implemented.
I
don't
know,
but
maybe
it's
too
long
of
an
answer
to
give
right
now.
But
what
do
you
think
we
could
do
or
are
any
recommendations
that
you
could
forward
to
us?
N
H
E
Certainly
could
use
additional
support
in
terms
of
staffing.
I
think
the
tim's
point
that
was
made
about
how
we
could
interact
with
the
community
would
really
be
to
our
benefit.
Right
now,
with
the
staff
we
have
they're
kept
busy
with
the
complaints
that
come
in
and
beth
does
try
to
do
community
outreach.
But
if
we
had
a
dedicated
staff
to
do
that,
I
think
that
would
make
a
big
difference
and
the
staff
we
have
now
could
focus
well.
E
We
really
could
use
another
investigator
frankly
to
investigate
some
of
the
cases
that
we
get,
and
one
of
the
things
we
try
to
do
is
be
very
timely
in
terms
of
responses,
but
with
the
limited
staff
we
can't
always
be
as
timely
as
we
would
like,
but
I
think
a
recommendation
from
you
to
fully
support
the
board,
as
as
it
is
currently
plus
to
add
funding
that
would
allow
for
an
investigator
of
slash
community
organizer
community
outreach
person
would
be
beneficial
to
the
board
and
could
do
some
of
the
things
that
you
know
have
been
done
previously,
but
on
a
limited
basis,
simply
because
of
of
time
management
and
the
human
resources
involved.
D
Yeah
and
thanks
dr
darby,
we
have
undergone
some
significant
staffing
changes
in
the
last
couple
years
too,
where
we
had
one
person
who
was
with
us
for
17
years,
one
person
who
was
with
us
for
15
years,
who
left
within
a
few
months
of
each
other,
which
was
devastating
to
our
organizational.
D
You
know
rhythm
because
that's
hard
to
lose
people
of
that
service
of
that
long.
The
proposal
that
is
going
to
appear
on
the
referendum,
the
referendum
question.
We
would
ask
that
you
endorse
that.
It
does
clearly
state
that
all
complaints
related
to
police
conduct
will
be
received
by
the
board.
D
It
also
allows
for
the
opportunity-
and
this
is
something
that
might
go
to
what
you're
talking
about
patricia,
are
looking
for
and
angela
about
about
the
assessing
the
performance
and
the
data
within
the
bureau
of
police,
because
this
referendum
includes
a
requirement
that
the
city
controller
and
the
board
would
jointly
conduct
performance
audits
on
the
bureau
of
police.
D
That's
a
whole
new
avenue
of
of
access,
maybe
not
necessarily
direct
power
and
control
over
something,
but
it
creates
a
whole
new
avenue
of
influence
and
and
and
information
and
knowledge
about,
what's
happening
there
better
to
pick
up
patterns
and
practices
that
may
be
deleterious
to
the
community.
D
That's
huge!
It
also
extends
protection
to
our
board
members
so
that
they
cannot
be
subjected
to
political
whimsy
and
just
removed
because
it
doesn't
satisfy
it.
Doesn't
please
a
mayor
because
of
what
they're
doing
or
engaged
in
in
pursuing
their
mission.
We
went
through
that
10
years
ago,
and
this
this
promises
in
this
referendum
that
a
board
member
may
only
be
removed
with
cause
and
that
cause
being
provided
and
agreed
to
by
city
council.
D
Yep
happy
to
the
other
would
be
to
to
look
at
those
recommendations
we
made
about
state
statutes
that
need
to
change
that
would
enhance
access
to
information
for
everybody,
not
just
the
board,
but
it
would
also
establish
a
minimum
standard
for
police
accountability
across
the
commonwealth
if
every
municipality
was
required
to
create
and
implement
some
form
of
police
accountability.
Even
if
it's
in
regionalizing
police
departments,
they
already
start
with
a
board
that
could
be
evolved
into
a
good
civilian
oversight.
D
But
that's
that's
important.
Those
state
rep
those
state
recommendations
we
had
offered-
and
I
think,
just
anything
that
that
would
support
the
the
mission
of
the
board
in
in
recognition
of
that
unique
role
that
they
serve.
G
Yeah,
I
would
say,
on
the
omi
side,
I
think,
based
on
the
questions
that
you
are
posing
to
me
like.
I
know
at
one
point
omi
put
together
like
an
infomercial
so
that
it
could
be
broadcast
on
city
channel
and
we
never
really
finalized
it.
But
I
think
that
maybe
some
parts
of
it
need
to
be
tweaked
to
to
really
go
through
what
we
might
be
expecting
of
the
complainants
once
they
have
filed
a
complaint,
I
would
say.
Obviously,
if,
if
the
complaint's
filed
against
a
city
employee,
we
can
compel
them.
G
We
can't
necessarily
do
that
with
citizens,
and
I
know
it
might
be
difficult,
but
there
are
times
that
they
they
call
in
and
they
speak
with
an
intake
coordinator
and
then,
as
the
investigators
are
going
through.
Other
issues
come
up
that
we
need
their
assistance
and
you
know
sometimes
it's
difficult
to
to
to
locate
those
complainants
again,
but
also
they
get
a
little
defensive
when
all
we're
trying
to
do
is
obtain
more
information
and
if
they
understood
that,
it's
not
we're
we're
asking
questions
of
them,
but
it's
not
necessarily
that
we're
questioning
them
it's
just.
H
I
really
appreciate
the
passionate
answers
that
y'all
have
given
and
thank
you
so
much
sorry,
sorry
quentin,
dr
bullock
apologize.
I
just
wanted
to
say
thank
you.
A
J
I
would
just
like
to
give
you
richard's
message
that
he
had
to
get
off
the
call
early.
He
didn't.
He
didn't
have
a
chance
to
say
that
and
I'll
wave.
My
question
it
was
just
to
see
if
I
could
get
an
answer
on
more
transparency,
but
I
actually
already
had
a
chance
to
ask
it.
Thank
you
both
for
great
presentations
and
answering
questions
tonight.
Thank
you.
Valerie.
C
Yeah,
dr
book,
I
have
some
questions
that
kind
of
cut
to
the
chase
and
I
don't
know
if
they're
sensitive
or
not,
but
I
think
it's
for
the
good
of
the
group,
I'm
a
person,
I
have
a
complaint.
Do
I
file
with
both
omi
and
cprb?
C
What
is
the
difference,
and
I
know
om
is
for
the
entire
city.
Employee
structure,
but
and
cprb
is
strictly
police.
So
what
is
the
benefit
of
me
complaining
of
filing
a
complaint
to
either
one
or
the
other
or
both,
and
tell
me
what
scenario
the
outcome
could
be
if
I.
G
We're
going
to
refer
the
complaints
to
one
another,
so
if,
if
they
complain
to
omi
and
they
if
they
bring
up
the
fact
that
they're
going
to
go
to
the
cprb
a
lot
of
time,
our
internet
coordinator,
laura,
is
going
to
say
that
you
know
we're
going
to
send
it
over
to
them
anyway.
A
lot
of
people
honestly
are
very
confused
about
the
fact
that
the
two
offices
exist,
because
I
know
so
then
beth
also
when
her
folks
get
a
complaint.
G
H
G
Us
that's
the
cprv,
so
there
is,
there
is
confusion
city-wide.
We
know
it
because
we
live
it
when
we're
referring
things.
So
you
know
if
someone
declines
to
have
like
no
one's
really
ever
declined
for
us
to
refer
to
the
cprb.
I
don't
know
if
beth
has
had
declinations
on
her
end.
However,
when
when
the
two
agencies
are
investigating
be
because
of
this
confusion,
there
are
times,
then
that
folks
don't
cooperate
with
both
agencies.
G
So
you
have
the
possibility
that
then
the
agencies
are
coming
to
conclusions
without
the
full
picture,
because
they
don't
have
those
those
same
witness
statements,
maybe
because
maybe
maybe
one
of
beth's
investigators
talks
to
a
complainant
and
then
one
of
my
investigators
calls
and
they're
like
already.
I
already
talked
to
that.
So
then
they
don't
call
my
person
back
and
so
there's
a
statement
out
there
that
maybe
we
are
missing
information
from
because
we
believe
the
person's
uncooperative
and
they
think
that
they
already
cooperated
with
both
of
us
yeah
yeah.
D
We're
working
on
on,
hopefully
with
this
referendum
once
that's
resolved.
It
also
requires
us
to
create
a
protocol
with
hrc
human
relations
commission
because
they
have
a
jurisdiction
over
civil
rights
violations
so
and
and
and
aaron
and
megan
stanley
at
hrc
in
our
office.
We're
trying
to
put
together
a
protocol
that
will
delineate
or
discern
better
for
complainants
that
when
they
come
to
one
of
us
we
share
with
all
of
us.
D
Then
the
next
step
is
to
better
share
the
investigative
material
that
we
each
develop,
and
I
I
see
us
going
down
the
line
as
being
a
little
bit
more
open
and
flexible
about
that
than
we
have
been
in
the
past.
D
C
And
and
how
will
that,
as
far
as
efficiencies,
because
again,
recommendations
will
be
made
on
how
things
are
processed,
how
transparency
is
actually
process
and
accountability
is
process?
So
what
would
your
recommendation
be
for
streamlining
how
the
general
public
is
able
to
resolve
an
accountability
issue,
or
at
least
initiate
the
investigation?
How
will
that
take
place?
So
there's
no
duplication
and
it's
it's
simplified
for
the
public.
D
Well,
there
will
always
be
duplication
if
they
come
to
us
and
want
to
pursue
with
us,
because
aaron
has
the
obligation
under
the
the
collective
bargaining
agreement.
She
doesn't
have
a
choice.
She
has
to
investigate
it,
that's
it,
but
if
she
she
has
to
receive
it
and
take
care
of
it
is
it.
You
have
to
receive
it
in
90
days,
right,
erin,
yeah,
yeah.
We
have
a
six-month
month
period
of
time
where
the
person
can
complain
so
we're
already
out
of
sync.
D
That's
that's
a
practical
issue
that
we
we
were
not
supporting
any
effort
that
would
take
that
right
away
from
people
to
come
to
us.
You
know
in
that
six
months
that
they've
had
for
20
years
to
to
compress
into
the
90
days.
So
that's
another
thing.
We
have
to
work
out
a
bit,
but
aaron
has
a
stricter
time
rule
than
we
do.
G
Yeah
and
beth
at
least
just
to
make
it
clear
for
the
the
task
force,
we'll
still
accept
it
past
90
days,
so
that
it's
logged
into
our
system.
However,
the
collective
bargaining
agreement
says:
if
it
couldn't
go
criminal,
then
it's
to
be
closed
as
unfounded,
so
at
least
it's
still
at
least
we've
received
it
and
we
have
a
record
of
it.
It's
not
like
it
just
goes
nowhere,
but
it,
but
that's
the
disposition
for
the
bargaining
agreement.
G
If
there's
other
questions
you
know,
maybe
a
use
of
force
incident
we'll
take
we'll
take
the
information
to
an
ada
and
say
listen.
This
came
to
us.
It
was
six
months
after
the
fact
based
on
the
footage.
Would
you
be
charging
on
this
and
then
we
can
say
it's
not
going
to
be
because
no
one's
prosecuting
it
and
then
we
log
it
as
unfounded.
A
Well,
we've
come
to
the
end
of
our
hour.
I
want
to
extend
a
special
thank
you
to
beth,
pininger
and
aaron
beauney
for
a
great
dialogue
and
overview
of
both
of
your
organizations,
and
it's
clear
that
you
both
do
some
important
work
and
you
have
contributed
to
our
efforts
to
bring
forth
some
strong,
supported
recommendations
that
will
further
advance
the
successes
that
you
will
continue
to
achieve
in
your
offices,
as
well
as
set
benchmark
practices
as
we
go
forward
to
help
make
a
difference
in
the
communities
that
we
serve.