►
Description
On this episode of The Grant Street Experience, Grant Ervin and Rebecca Kiernan talk to Alfred Presto from Carnegie Mellon University and R. Subramanian, Ph.D. from the Qatar Environment & Energy Research Institute.
A
A
A
Maybe
I'm
going
to
turn
to
you
first,
and
maybe
we
have
a
special
topic
today,
which
is
air
quality,
which
is
one
that
is
kind
of
near
and
dear
to
you,
your
heart
and
so
you're
you're
able
to
to
locate
and
corral
albert
and
subu
for
us
to
bring
him
to
the
podcast.
So
maybe
you
want
to
kind
of
intro
the
topic
a
little
bit
from
your
perspective.
A
Awesome,
and
so
you
found
two
two
of
the
best
experts,
I
think
not
just
in
the
in
the
city,
but
probably
naturally,
maybe
worldwide
with
regards
to
air
quality
and
the
impacts
of
air
quality.
So
glad
to
have
you
guys
here
with
us
today,
maybe
we'll
start
with
you
albert
we'll.
Just
do
some
brief
introductions
about
who
you
are
kind
of
the
role
that
you
have
and
and
and
then
we'll
go
to
subu
and
have
the
same.
C
C
So
we've
done
a
lot
of
work
in
that
regard
and
because
it's
sort
of
easy
to
do
a
lot
of
this
in
your
backyard.
We've
done
a
lot
of
it
in
pittsburgh
and
we
try
to
do
in
a
way
that
we
can
understand
like
the
whole
country.
But
we
specifically
learn
a
lot
about
pittsburgh
itself.
Since
you
were
letting
me
introduce
myself,
I'm
gonna
plug,
I
have
my
own
podcast,
it's
called
sharedair.
A
Totally
awesome
we
we
also
do
a
lot
of
name,
dropping
and
kind
of
shared
advertisement
on
here.
So
we
are
we're
hereby
dubbing
sharedair
as
being
our
official
sponsor
for
the
grand
street
experience
for
today's
podcast.
So
so
it's
mutual
subaru.
How
about
how
about
you
a
little
bit
on
yourself
in
your
background,
yeah.
D
D
A
D
Okay,
the
so
in
a
single
word,
money
yeah.
Well,
no,
I
mean
so
you
know
for
speaking
as
an
international
student.
You
know
when
you're
trying
to
do
a
phd
in
the
united
states
and
some
of
the
best
schools
in
the
country.
You
know,
let's
be
honest,
tuition
and
living
expenses.
Are
you
know
not
something
that
everybody
can
afford?
D
Right
and
cmu
was
one
of
the
schools
that
gave
me
a
full
scholarship
to
come
study,
air
pollution
for
my
phd
and
that
sort
of
you
know
took
me
to
pittsburgh,
but
you
know
I
haven't
quit.
You
know
I
still
working
in
air
pollution
21
years
later
and
I
think
I've
learned
a
lot
of
new
things
along
the
way
which
always
keeps
me
interested
so
yeah.
You
know
it's
a
good
choice.
It
partly
motivated
my
money,
but
also
motivated
by
the
intellectual
challenges
involved.
Yeah.
C
Yeah,
but
there
is
not
a
plan,
let's
put
it
that
way.
You
know
it's
sort
of
I
kept
pursuing
things
that
I
thought
were
interesting,
so
sometimes
I
describe
it
as
a
random
walk.
So
the
way
I
so
I
studied
chemical
engineering
and
the
way
that
we
had
to
pick
an
advisor
in
grad
school
was
basically
to
listen
to
the
whole
faculty,
give
like
a
pitch
and
then
say.
B
A
C
A
At
it
right,
you
know
it's
interesting
for
me,
I
mean
the
whole
idea
of
atmospheric
chemistry.
You
know
that.
That's
something
that
when
I
first
got
into
this
work,
I
I
kind
of
kicked
myself
because
I
didn't
understand
the
contextualization
of
it
and
that
you
know
air
many
people,
as
you
know,
kind
of
take
it
for
granted
right,
but
there's
a
lot
of
components
that
go
into
the
atmosphere
and
air
and
air
quality,
and
this
idea
that
there
is
a
certain
chemistry
or
balance
to
it.
A
C
A
C
C
You
know,
I
think
some
of
air
pollution
people
sort
of
know
it
when
they
see
it
right.
If
you're
like
next
to
a
burning
pile
of
trash
right,
it
smells
it
looks
gross,
you
know
it.
It
feels
like
something
that's
harming
you
and
you
know,
and
so
that's
easy
to
tell
I
think,
what's
harder
to
tell
is
that
you
know
you
breathe
your
whole
life.
C
Decades
and
so
even
small
amounts
of
air
pollution
over
those
chronic
time
scales
can
really
add
up
and
harm
you,
and
so
there
are
specific
pollutants
that
the
epa
cares
about
sort
of
the
big
ones
are
well,
you
know
it
has
a
couple
different
names,
it
could
be
pm
or
particulate
matter
or
fine
particles.
These
are
just
particles,
they
can
be
solid
or
liquids
that
are
floating
around
in
the
atmosphere
and
then
the
other
one
that
we'll
probably
end
up
talking
about.
C
C
A
D
Oh
god,
it's
been
so
long.
I
I'm
not
sure
I
remember,
but
I
think
well,
we
overlapped
in
grad
school
right,
and
so
we
kind
of
knew
each
other,
though
we
didn't
exactly
work
with
each
other
at
that
time
and
then,
when
I
came
back
in
2013
albert
was
there
now
a
professor
at
carnegie
mellon
and
we
shared
a
lot
of
similar
interests.
I
mean
we
were
both
interested
in
air
pollution.
D
D
Actually
I
think
albert
allen
and
I
kind
of
have
very
similar
research
interests
in
terms
of
air
pollution,
and
we
are
all
measurement
people
right,
experimentalists
albert
you
would
say
I'd
say
or
maybe
I
should
call
it
field
work,
but
we
try
to
measure
things.
I
mean
if
you
want
to
understand
something.
The
best
way
to
do
that
for
us
is
to
measure
it
and
see.
What's
going
on,
but
yeah
I
mean
we
were
bouncing
off
ideas
of
each
other,
and
you
know
we
said
all
right.
D
Oh,
I
shouldn't
work
with
this
guy
but
more
like
let's
work
together
and
I
think
that's
sort
of
a
culture
that
I
think
carnegie
mellon
and
the
center
for
atmospheric
particle
studies
actually
strongly
encourage.
Just
in
my
opinion
I
mean
so
yeah.
So
that's
that's!
That's
how
we
started
working
together.
A
C
C
You
know
we
had
both
heard
there
were
people
interested
in
doing
air
pollution
sensing
with
with
sort
of
cheap
sensors.
We
were
both
like
well
yeah,
what
the
heck,
let's
you
know,
we
had
an
undergrad
there
and
said:
hey
go
and
he
was
sort
of
a
tinkerer
and
we
said
all
right
go
have
at
it
and
like
see
if
some
of
this
even
works
at
all.
Oh
good
job,
yeah,
I'm
thinking
of
river.
C
D
B
Yeah
so
my
my
first
introduction
to
pittsburgh's
air
quality
was
through
these
spec
monitors,
which
I
think
is
what
you
were
alluding
to
with
those
low-cost
monitors,
because
I
know
that
those
came
out
of
cmu.
I
wasn't.
I
was
actually
in
like
the
trial
batch
the
first
year
that
they
came
out.
So
I
guess
I
was
just
wondering
if
you
know
you
could
talk
a
little
bit
about
like
what
what's
the
air
quality
monitoring
technology.
B
D
C
Do
you
want
to
go
yeah
sure
yeah?
So
we
don't
the
the
specs
are
in
the
in
the
sort
of
spectrum
of
low-cost
sensors.
We
don't
work
with
them
directly.
They
come
out
of
the
create
lab
at
cmu.
We
use
some
different
stuff,
but
it's
this.
You
know
it's
a
similar
idea.
Sort
of
to
make
the
whole
idea
is.
If
you
can
measure
cheaply,
you
can
measure
in
a
lot
of
places
or
you
can
really
democratize
things
and
let
lots
of
people
have
sensors
right
and
that's.
C
In
contrast
to
you
know,
sort
of
there
is
a
there's,
a
really
big
epa
mandated
regulatory
network
for
measuring
air
quality.
But
it's
really
expensive
right,
because
the
epa
has
to
be
able
to
defend
this
stuff
in
court
and
make
laws
about
it,
and
so
they
just
have
you
know
the
equipment's
expensive.
It
takes
a
lot
of
people,
the
the
data
quality
requirements
are
super
high,
and
so
it
produces
awesome
data,
but
I
mean
there
can
only,
I
think
in
allegheny
county,
it's
run
by
the
county
health
department.
C
There
is
something
like
10
sites
and
they
have
a
full-time
staff
that
is
sort
of
maxed
out
just
taking
care
of
their
tent
sites.
Yeah.
You
know
the
low-cost
approach,
I
mean
clearly
the
data
aren't
going
to
be
quite
as
good,
because
the
stuff
is
cheaper
and
because
we're
sort
of
leaving
it
there
and
not
checking
on
it
every
single
day,
but
we
can
put
out
a
lot
and
you
know
so
we
can
get
sort
of
more
spatial
coverage
or
we
can
do
things
like
put
them
in
people's
homes
and
outside
their
homes.
C
And
you
know
you
can
get
a
rich
picture
that
way,
and
so
you
know
we
don't
run
the
epa
network,
that's
the
health
department.
You
know
we
run
a
network
of
low-cost
sensors
around
pittsburgh.
That
you
know
is,
I
forget,
how
many
are
in
it
right
now
at
its
peak
it
was
50,
but
we
trimmed
it
down
because
some
were
redundant,
but
we've
been
running
it
continuously
since
about
2016.
D
Yeah,
so
I
mean
the
sensors
that
we're
talking
about.
Are
these
things
right
and
certainly,
if
you
have
seen
them
there's
about,
I
think
there,
as
albert
said
at
one
point:
there
are
50
such
boxes
in
the
pittsburgh
area,
and
now
we
are
down
to
probably
about
30
or
35.
I
think
so.
You
know
these
are
little
boxes
and
they
have
gas,
sensors
and
pm
sensors
next
to
them
for
particulate
matter
and
the
gas
sensors
measure
ozone,
carbon
monoxide
and
nitrogen
dioxide.
D
D
Yeah
this
is
a
live
map.
Okay,
and
so
you
know.
Obviously
it's
a
huge.
You
know:
lots
of
sensors
all
over
the
us
and
the
world,
but
there's
a
lot
of
them
in
in
pittsburgh,
and
I
think
one
of
the
nice
things
about
pittsburgh
is
there's
a
very
strong
community,
local
community
who
were
interested
in
air
pollution.
D
A
D
D
C
C
Of
people
who
make
acronyms
in
academia
and
some
are
really
skilled
at
it.
I
mean
well,
depending
on
your
level
of
skill,
right
they're.
The
people
who
like
take
the
you,
know
the
letter
from
the
middle
of
the
word
and
put
in
their
acronym.
This
was
literally
like
we
were
putting
in
a
short
proposal
and
we
needed
a
name
for
the
thing
and
had
like
an
hour,
and
so
you
know
it
was
a
little
bit
like
okay,
this
works,
and
it
makes
a
word
so
there
we
go
so.
A
D
So
these
are
the
criteria,
pollutants
that
are
important
these
days,
the
so
the
epa
monitors
and
regulates
six
criteria
pollutants.
So
these
five
and
lead
and
led
is
more
of
a
ground
pollutant.
I
mean
there
is
lead
in
the
air,
obviously,
but
a
lot
less
so
than
when
it
was
leaded
gasoline.
Now
we
also
do
unleaded
gasoline.
So
a
lot
of
the
lead
in
the
air
has
gone
away,
but
these
are
the
five
five
airborne
pollutants
that
are
most
important
and
really
what
is
more
important.
These
days
is
pm.
D
2.5
ozone
and
no2
so2
is
useful,
just
because
of
the
industry
around
pittsburgh,
the
mon
valley
industry,
that
emits
sulfur
dioxide
and
hydrogen
sulfide.
We
don't
measure
h2s,
but
we
measure
so2,
no2,
is
often
an
indicator
for
traffic
pollution
like
vehicular
traffic.
Regular
exhaust
carbon
monoxide
can
also
be
from
traffic
and
ozone
is
a
regional,
secondary,
pollutant
and
so
a
combination
is
basically
it's
criteria.
Pollutants,
plus
it
gives
you
some
indication
of
the
sources
of
air
pollution.
D
D
B
We've
we've
looked
at
this
a
lot
from
like
the
impacts
on
our
residents
and
and
resident
health,
and
some
of
the
disparities
between
you
know,
which,
which
groups
of
people
are,
you
know
experiencing
the
worst
of
those
impacts.
So
there's
you
know
a
few
studies
that
have
been
done
that
are
like
a
22
asthma
rate
in
some
of
our
schools,
we
saw
a
four
times
higher
asthma
hospitalization
rate
in
young
black
children
than
white
children.
B
What
like
looking
at
those
criteria,
pollutants
are,
is
there
any
that
are
more
like
impactful
on
human
health
or
like
from
where
those
sources
are
coming
from
or
is
it?
Is
it
kind
of
just
more
of
a
concoction
like
what
are
the
strategies
that
you
know
that
like
connect
it
to
the
human
health
aspect
of
it,.
C
B
C
Number
two
and
then
everything
else,
sort
of
smaller.
Now
that's
sort
of
population
wide
and
again
that's
because,
like
everyone's
always
breathing
particles
right
so
obviously,
if
you
live
right
near
a
source,
that's
emitting
something
really
toxic
into
the
air
and
that's
harming
your
family
or
yourself.
C
A
Interesting
and-
and
so
you
guys
have
done
some
work
too-
I
mean
two
questions.
I
guess
what
helped
you
determine
like
the
deployment
of
the
ramp
sensors.
That's
question,
one
maybe
for
subu,
and
then
you
know
you
know
albert
maybe
to
follow
up
with
that.
You've
also
talked
a
lot
in
your
work
around
the
black
carbon
rivers
project
too,
and
maybe
we
can,
you
know,
go
from
ramp
into
black
carbon
rivers
to
explain
some
of
those
health
implications,
but
subaru
will
start
with
you.
D
Sure
so
the
I
mean
we
we
had.
We
had
a
plan
right.
We
always
started
the
good
plan
and
we
were
we
were
so
this
is
sort
of
this.
Will
the
alberta
will
explain
this
black
carbon
map,
but
we're
trying
that
that
is
an
idea.
There's
a
theory
that
pollution
can
be
explained
by
land
use
factors
like
how
much
traffic
is
there
in
a
particular
area.
Is
that
building
height?
D
You
know
point
breeze,
maybe
things
like
that
are
industrial,
so
we're
trying
to
cover
a
range
of
these
site
attributes
in
our
plan.
That's
number
one
and
number
two
finding
willing
hosts
and
volunteers,
and
this
is
where
we
end
up
being
opportunistic
to
some
extent.
So
I
lived
in
swissvale,
so
I
had
a
monitor
out
on
my
front
yard
on
my
front,
porch
and
I'll.
A
D
And
you
know
people
are
pretty
open
and
you
know
they
were
pretty
happy
to
take
monitors.
We
were
approached
by
groups
like
ecan,
for
example,
who
are
up
in
you,
know
shenandoah
and
neville
island
areas,
and
they
were
interested
in
putting
monitors
up
there.
So
some
of
it
word
of
mouth,
some
of
it
said
you
know
opportunistic.
D
C
Yeah
and
so
for
those
on
the
video
feed
I'll
share
the
screen.
So
this
is
the
this
is
specifically
what
sort
of
grant
is
referring
to,
and
this
was
actually
collected.
I
mean
there's
some
nuance.
We
collected
this
data
a
different
way.
This
wasn't
with
the
ramps,
but
you
know
it's
the
same
ideas
to
sort
of
get
community
level.
Air
quality
black
carbon
is
a
component
of
particulate
matter,
so,
if
you're
ever
behind
a
diesel
truck
and
it
burps
out
a
big
black
cloud,
that's
what
we're
talking
about!
That's.
A
C
You
can
imagine
that
you
know
if
you're
near
a
big
highway
with
lots
of
trucks
on
it,
you're
going
to
have
more
black
carbon
than
when
you're
away
from
it.
You
know
in
a
park
or
something
right,
so
we
can
see
roadways
on
this
map.
You
know
and
then,
in
a
place
like
downtown,
where
lots
of
roadways
come
together.
You
know
there's
always
sort
of
high
traffic.
You
get
high
concentrations
and
that's
made
a
little
bit
worse
by
the
river
valley
effect.
C
Essentially
that
you
know
all
the
cars
driving
into
downtown
are
down
in
a
in
a
bowl
almost
and
the
same
way
as
when
you
like,
dump
a
bunch
of
sugar
into
a
glass
and
it's
hard
to
sort
of
mix
it
to
the
top.
The
air
wants
to
stay
down
in
the
bowl
at
the
bottom,
and
so
you
get
higher
concentrations
when
you're
down
in
the
downtown
street
canyons,
because
there's
a
lot
of
source
and
it's
hard
to
get
the
air
to
mix
upward
interesting
and
then
for
people
who
live.
C
You
know
near
the
industrial
sources.
This
is
sort
of
more
in
the
mon
valley.
You
know
there
are
also
higher
concentrations
there
for
you
there's
another
bowl
right,
it's
another
river
valley,
but
then
there's
a
different
set
of
sources
right.
There
are
the
industrial
sources
and
it's
again
hard
to
get
the
air
out
of
the
valley.
A
So
so,
maybe
just
to
paint
paint
a
little
picture
here
like
what
we're
looking
at
is
a
map.
I'm
just
my
own
interpretation,
where
we
have
kind
of
the
red
lines.
Are
your
your
key
transportation
nodes,
your
high
places
of
building
density
or
industrial
operations,
and
and
that's
where
we're
seeing
like
the
greatest
concentrations
of
effectively
flat
carbon
right,
yep.
B
C
C
C
This
was
done
with
a
mobile
lab,
and
then
we
went
to
the
data
underlying
this
particular
map
had
70
unique
locations
that
we
visited
at
multiple
times
a
day
in
multiple
seasons
and
they
fit
all
these
different
categories.
Subu
was
talking
about
right,
like
high
traffic,
low
traffic
high
traffic
with
tall
buildings,
high
traffic
was
short
buildings.
Things
like
that.
A
You
know
it
it's
interesting
too
subi.
You
mentioned
that
the
role
of
land
use
decisions.
You
know,
one
of
the
things
that
the
city
is
initiating
is
its
first
ever
comprehensive
land
use
plan,
so
it's
called
forge
pgh.
What
what
are
some
things
or
you
know,
I
guess
two
questions
here.
One
is
like
what
are
some
things
that
we
could
do
to
help
educate
people
about
this
connection
with
regards
to
pollution
and
land
use,
and
then
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
you
know
we
look
to.
A
You
know
this
data
for
is
effectively
decision,
support
tools
right.
So
how
do
you
start
to
make
better
investment
or
policy
decisions
you
know
to
to?
You
know
basically
reduce
pollution
and
the
impacts
on
the
environment
and
on
public
health,
and
specifically,
what
are
some
thoughts
that
you
have
or
you've
seen
with
kind
of
the
ramp
data
or
others
that
land
use
decisions
in
particular
that
we
can
make
improve
decisions.
D
D
D
If
you
walked
around
downtown
pittsburgh,
you
know
you
probably
get
to
know
it
pretty
quickly,
and
you
know
I
think
my
thought
as
well.
I
mean
you
know
there
aren't
a
whole
lot
of
people
who
go
into
this
back
alley.
Maybe
it's
fine,
but
the
it
it
enters
into
the
next
neighboring
buildings,
and
then
the
workers
often
go
out
to
take
their
breaks
into
that
back
alley:
delivery
workers
coming
to
delaware
stuff.
So
you
know
there
are
people
who
go
in
and
out
and
they
breed
the
stuff
right.
A
D
D
D
What
are
you
going
to
do
right
and
so
the
other
thing
might
be
well,
you
can
replace
the
diesel
buses
with
electric
buses,
for
example,
or
if
you're,
building
out
new
planning
or
new
areas,
then
maybe
don't
put
so
many
buildings
close
to
each
other,
where
you
have
street
canyon
effects,
for
example,
put
out
more
parks,
so
there's
more
open
air
open
space.
Things
like
that.
D
I
think
I
think
there
has
been
a
lot
of
successful
focus
on
regular
exhaust
reductions.
Right
and
so
cars
today
are
much
cleaner
than
they
were
30
years
ago
or
even
10
years
ago,
but
restaurants
apparently
are
still
unregulated
or
you
know
not
as
well
regulated,
and
you
know
we
all
live
near
restaurants
right
so.
A
Yeah
I
mean
it
seems
too
that
you
know
working
in
government
about
what
I'm
about
to
say,
isn't
always
true,
but
it
seems
like
these
are
simple
solutions
right
that
you
know.
Switching
from
a
diesel
bus
to
an
electric
bus,
particularly
as
technology
has
advanced
rapidly
like
those
choices,
are
available
or
enforcement
or
improving
kind
of
the
ventilation
systems
with
exhaust
or
even
like
increasing
parks
and
walking
and
biking
opportunities
through
downtown
can
be
a
big
of
assistance.
A
You
know
one
of
the
things
rebecca
that
you've
worked
on
with
with
melanie
and
our
team
melanie
argola
who's
a
guest
a
couple
weeks
ago
has
been
the
issues
of
inversions
and
and
how
we've
seen
that
play
out
in
an
increasing
effect.
With
regards
to
the
the
frequency
right,
the
frequency
of
inversions.
B
Yeah,
I
was
wondering
the
same
thing
when
we,
when
albert
flashed
that
map,
so
we
through
some
of
our
climate
adaptation
planning,
have
been
looking
at
like
the
number
of
inversions
that
have
been
occurring
over
the
past
few
years.
So
I
guess,
looking
a
little
bit
historically
and
then,
looking
in
more
recent
years,
we've
been
trying
to
gauge
how
the
weather,
how
the
temp,
how
the
climate
is
changing
in
pittsburgh.
B
So
what
we
think
is
happening
is
that,
as
as
we're
experiencing
more
extreme
temperature
swings
we're
seeing
more
inversion
events,
because
those
the
inversion
events
tend
to
happen
when
a
warm
when
a
warm
front
comes
in
right
and
traps
the
cold
air
down
below.
So
when
we
do
have
those
you
know
extreme
just
like
yesterday
was
what
85
degrees.
So
when
you
do
just
have
that
wave
of
of
warm
air
that
starts
coming
in,
you
know
we
we're
seeing
more
of
those
swings
right
and
the
pollution
gets
trapped.
B
So
yeah
I
was
interested.
You
know.
You
said
that
you
did
some
time
of
day
studies.
It
seems
like
those
inversions
occur
more
in
in
the
morning.
You
know
when
the
day
breaks
I'd
be
interested
to.
You
know
hear
if,
if
your
your
data
and
your
your
monitoring
matches
up
with
with
those
inversion,
events
and
kind
of
how
that
plays
out
in
terms
of
black
carbon.
C
Right
so
I
yeah
so
the
inversions
do
happen
in
the
morning
right
there.
You
know
they
basically
happen
when
you
have
a
sunny
previous
day
and
then
at
night
it's
clear
and
the
ground
gets
sort
of
colder
than
the
air
above
it,
and
then
that
sort
of
creates
a
cycle
where
the
air
can't
sort
of
rise
too
high,
and
so
it
traps
everything
near
the
ground.
C
So
it
ends
up
so
one
thing:
it
ends
up
being
this
weird
counterintuitive
thing,
because
people
complain
about
the
weather
in
pittsburgh,
but
you
get
inversions
after
really
nice
days
the.
So
I
and
I
don't
know
about
the
long-term
trend.
I
think
if
you
were
to
ask
like
the
meteorologist
at
the
health
department,
they
would
say
you
know
it's
sort
of
there's
a
lot.
C
Here
to
here,
but
there's
maybe
not
necessarily
a
trend,
but
you
know
when
there's
a
strong
inversion,
you
do
get
higher
ground
level,
air
pollution
that
happens
in
pittsburgh.
That
happens
anywhere.
One
of
the
cool
things
we
can
see
with
the
ramps
is,
you
know,
are
there
sort
of
more
localized
effects
right?
So
the
inversion
is
going
to
be
a
little
bit
worse
when
you're
in
the
river
valley
than
when
you're
up
on
top
of
the
hill,
and
so
the
ramp
data.
C
B
B
C
And
so,
if
you
have
a
big
source
emitting
into
the
inversion,
that's
that
pollution
just
sort
of
hangs
out
it.
You
know
nothing's
pushing
it
around.
Nothing
is
pulling
it
up,
and
so
you
know
we
can
use
the
ramps
to
see
like
oh,
like
well.
This
neighborhood
was
getting
sort
of
beat
up
worse
than
than
that
one
on
the
inversion
day.
B
It
feels
like
they're,
almost
predictable
kind.
I
know
that
there's
like
some
discrepancy,
if
you
can
prevent,
if
you
can
predict
like
a
bad
one,
but
we've
been
working
with
a
actually
a
class
at
a
hinds
college
to
help
us
think
through
like
are
there
some
strategies
that
maybe
this
now
that
we've,
you
know
gone
through
the
pandemic
and
we've
adapted
we've
adapted.
You
know
some
of
our
operations,
like
our
staff,
aren't
aren't
coming
into
to
commute
into
the
building.
B
B
C
So
I
think
that
sort
of
stuff
is
possible.
I
mean,
I
think
a
lot
of
people
are
familiar
with
the
idea
of
ozone
action
days
where
they
sort
of
you
know
put
it
out
like
on
in
the
newspaper
and
in
the
weather
report.
You
know
like
try
not
to
mow
your
lawn
in
the
middle
of
the
day.
Don't
refill
your
you
know,
try
and
get
gas
like
at
night.
C
I
don't
know
it's
always
tough.
I
think
in
grant
you
were
saying
like.
Oh,
it
should
be
easy
to
do
this
thing.
I
think
from
an
engineer's
perspective,
and
this
is
what
I
say
in
class
for
the
engineer.
It
is
easy
to
say
just
like.
Oh
yeah
turn
this
knob
getting
people
to
buy
into
turning
the
knob
is
a
totally
different
thing.
D
I
mean
us,
I
mean
I'm,
you
know
I
mean
I'll,
go
back
to
what
I
said
earlier
right
I
mean
there
may
be
inversions
or
there
may
be
street
canyon
effects,
but
if
there
were
no
emission
sources,
the
pollution
would
not
exist
right.
If
there
were
no
cars
emitting.
You
know,
exhaust
diesel
trucks
putting
out
black
carbon
industrial
facilities.
You
know
putting
out,
you
know,
plumes
whatever
right
and
if
that
they
were
not
there.
D
So
the
whole
idea
is
that
with
an
inversion,
the
ad
is
not
moving
anywhere
right,
and
this
means
I
mean,
though,
in
normal
cases-
and
I
always
say
this
right-
and
this
is
actually
true-
I
think
about
most
of
pittsburgh-
pm
2.5
pollution
and
average
comes
from
elsewhere
right.
It's
like
80
percent
of
pn
2.5.
Is
that
still
the
case
albert
80
percent
of
50
percent?
What
is
it
now?
80.
D
D
The
three
is
what
you
can
control
in
the
city
now,
but
if
you're
in
an
inversion,
which
is
when
the
pollution
levels
really
go
up
and
as
not
going
any
it's
not
coming
from
anywhere,
it's
just
sitting
there
in
pittsburgh
right
so
the
outside
outside
sources
are
not
important.
What's
important
is
what
is
being
emitted
locally
and
so.
B
D
Includes
people
who
are
driving
whether
it's
diesel
trucks,
whether
it
is
cars,
whether
it
is
industrial
facilities,
whether
it
is
restaurants,
you
know
lot
whatever
is
the
local
source,
basically
normal
cases,
it's
not
a
huge
deal,
but
in
terms
of
an
inversion,
it
just
sits
there
and
pools
and
builds
up
concentrations
right.
That's
the
whole
problem,
and
so
I
think
the
way
to
actually
avoid
those
speaks
in
that
case,
because
it's
not
like
you
can
turn
a
huge
blower
on
somewhere
and
blow
the
ad
out.
D
Basically,
is
I
mean
I
guess
I
said
that
out
loud
and
I
remember
the
smog
towers
in
india.
The
do
not
take
the
lord's
name
in
vain,
but
the
the,
but
you
know,
but
basically
somebody's
not
going
to
get
the
idea.
Let's
put
huge
blowers
outside
of
pittsburgh
and
start
blowing
the
air
out
during
inversions,
but
the
easier
thing
would
be
to
turn
down
the
emissions
as
much
as
possible,
and
that
is
really
the
only
reasonable
practical
solution.
D
Otherwise
people
just
stay
home
and
even
if
people
stay
home,
you
know
a
lot
of
buildings
in
pittsburgh
are
old
right.
I
mean
my
house
in
swissvale
was
like
105
years
old
when
I
bought
it,
and
you
know
the
it,
it
has
lots
of
leaks
from
all
over
the
place.
Even
if
you
put
a
fancy
air
filtration
system
in
place,
it
has
probably
leaks
all
over
the
place
that
are
coming
in
and
of
course,
now
now
in
the
pandemic
times,
we
start
thinking
about
well.
D
We
need
to
have
better
filtration
system
indoors,
for
example,
to
reduce
the
likelihood
of
transmission
that
also
helps
with
indoor
air
quality.
So
that
is
something
that
is
to
be
looked
at.
For
example,
city
buildings
have
upgraded
hvac
systems,
for
example
right,
so
it
makes
it
safer
for
people
to
work
in
long-term
healthcare
facilities
have
better
health
filtration
systems,
so
vulnerable
populations
are
better
protected
against
outdoor
air
pollution.
So,
but
those
are
you
know,
infrastructure,
problem,
infrastructure,
solutions,
right
and
infrastructure
seems
to
be
the
new
buzzword
right.
D
A
Would
say
that
my
line
with
the
infrastructure
is
that
buildings
are
infrastructure
and
they
have
such
a
huge
impact
in
terms
of
both
emissions
or
like
you're,
saying
filtration.
You
know
pick
up
on
a
couple.
A
couple
of
thoughts
here.
One
is
rebecca.
You
you've
thought
about
this
through,
like
a
demand
response
type
of
program
for
air
quality,
like
is
there
ways
to
develop
like
a
real
time
and
for
folks
listening
like
demand
response
is
a
tool
that
we
use
in,
like
the
energy
space
to
curtail
energy
usage.
B
You
know
thinking
about
things
from
like
are
we
are
our
refuse
trucks
coming
out
at
the
right
time
in
the
morning
you
know.
Is
there
is
there
a
way
if
we
see
an
inversion
coming
on
the
horizon,
that
you
know
we
could
delay
like
start
time
of
work
or
maybe
delay
those
heavier
construction
projects
when
you're
you
know
ripping
up
the
the
street
in
front
of
someone's
house.
B
I
guess
in
the
wintertime
when
all
those
deciduous
trees
lose
their
lose
their
leaves
and
their
ability
to
soak
up
some
of
some
of
those
pollutants.
So
I
mean
yeah.
I
guess
the
strategies
are
out
there,
but
you
know
what
what
is
it
that
we
could
come
up
with
like
a
suite
of
options
that
we
could
do
now
that
you
know
we've
we've
adapted
I'd,
say
pretty
well
to
the
pandemic.
D
You
know
I
mean
so.
The
thing
is:
if
you're
delaying
work,
that
means
the
union
members
or
you
know
they
say
we
don't
want
to
work
longer
than
you
know,
5
pm
or
whatever
right,
fine,
let
them
just
work
for
five
hours
and
the
city
pays
them
for
eight
hours
I
mean
so
there
is
an
added
cost
of
three
hours
of
extra
pay
that
they
are
being
paid.
The
difference
is
health
effects.
D
Right
and
you
know,
air
pollution
has
huge
detrimental
impacts
on
human
health,
and
that
affects
everybody,
not
just
the
workers,
including
the
workers,
but
everybody
right,
and
so
maybe
the
heinz
college
or
people
there
can
actually
do
a
little
study
on
saying.
If
you,
you
know,
have
people
work
for
shorter
hours
during
the
day,
but
we
pay
them
the
same
amount
anyway.
B
A
You
know-
maybe
maybe
just
to
pick
up
with
that
in
the
just
to
kind
of
wrap
up
we're
coming
up
against
time
here,
and
this
has
been
super
fascinating.
What
for
for
each
of
you?
I
guess
what
has
been
your
lesson
from
the
pandemic
as
it
pertains
to
air
quality,
and
I
the
the
genesis
of
that
question
is
like
I,
I
recall
here
in
pittsburgh.
You
know
in
the
really
probably
around
this
time
last
year
in
the
you
know
spring
of
20.
A
You
know
when
we
were
in
that
you
know
kind
of
lockdown
phase
in
space
and
transportation
emissions
drastically
decreased,
and
you
know
I
remember,
having
the
ability
to
smell
and
to
hear
in
the
city
which
were
like
kind
of
two
of
my
reflections,
and
you
know
any.
How
did
that?
How
did
that
kind
of
impact
you
guys
and
as
well
as
kind
of
your
research
and
some
of
your
thinking
in
terms
of
what
it's
like
when
pollution's
reduced
and
like?
C
Yeah,
so
one
of
the
cool
things
about
having
a
the
ramp
network
is
that
we
could
it
kept
running,
even
though
we
weren't
allowed
on
campus
or
anything.
So
definitely
people
drove
less.
We
can
see
that
in
our
data.
You
know
whether
overall
air
pollution
got
better
is
is
a
much
harder
question
to
answer,
because
it
depends
on
a
lot
of
other
things,
but
definitely
you
could
tell
that
from
the
data
that
people
were
not
driving
as
much
you
know.
C
So
there
were
benefits
to
that
and
something
we're
trying
to
take
a
look
at
now.
Probably
have
students
start
working
on
this
soon.
Is
you
know
how
fast
did
people
come
back
and
as
they
came
back,
we
were
able
to
get
some
ramps
in
places.
I
know
the
city
closed.
A
couple
streets,
you
know
tried
some
traffic
free
zones
or
these
restaurant
zones,
and
so
we
have
a
couple
ramps
like
in
market
square.
We
have
one,
we
have
one,
I'm
sorry
I
am
blanking.
We
have
another
one
on
the
street.
C
That
was
that
got
closed,
so
to
look.
If
there's
like
some
sort
of
hyper
local
benefit
that
could
be
maintained,
you
know
and
obviously
it'll
be
a
little
bit
tough
because
things
sort
of
open
and
close
and
open
and
closed
and
now
they're
opening
again-
and
hopefully
you
don't
have
to
close
again.
But
that's
something
we'll
be
able
to
look
at
interesting.
D
So
I
think
the
the
study
that
I
think
albe
that
albert
referred
to
we
published
this-
they
published
this
paper
in
the
esmt
letters
last
year,
was
basically
that
with
the
lockdown
and
with
people
driving
less,
I
think
the
net
effect
on
p.
The
the
rush
hour
pm
2.5
levels
went
down
by
about
one
microgram
per
meter
cube,
which
is
about
like
10,
about
10
percent
of
the
pm
2.5
with
that
at
that
time.
D
D
D
90
percent
of
the
world
would
love
to
have
pittsburgh
exact
quality,
that's
because
the
epa
and
the
achd
and
everybody
else
has
been
working
on
reducing
air
pollution
over
the
last
30
years,
40
years
right,
and
so,
if
you
actually
look
at
some
of
the
other
cities
around
the
world
like
delhi
or
other
places,
the
lockdowns
have
had
much
more
significant
impacts
on
air
pollution,
because
a
lot
more
of
the
cars
are
more
polluting.
A
lot
more
of
the
pollution
is
local
or
other
sources.
Things
like
that,
and
so
those
have
definitely
reduced.
D
B
B
It
seems
like
it's
ramps
back
up
now
and
it's
it's
less
like
the
the
traffic
flow,
I
think,
is
more
of
an
all-day
event.
Now,
instead
of
like
that
that
quick
traffic
flow
in
the
morning
for
the
commute
and
then
in
the
afternoon
commute
so
yeah,
I
guess
I'd
be
interested
to
you,
know,
stay
tuned
and
and
see
what
the
data
shows
for
for
car
travel
and
and
how
that's
changed
as
a
result
of
the
pandemic.
A
C
Yeah
so
so
shared
air
is
a
podcast
that
is
co-hosted
by
myself
and
rose
islandberg
who's,
a
phd
student
at
carnegie
mellon,
and
so
we
talk
about
air
quality
and
climate
and
sort
of
science
communication,
and
so
we've
had
a
number
of
different,
really
great
guests.
Talking
about
environmental
justice,
and
you
know
covet
a
few
times.
C
Our
most
recent
episode
is
about.
Is
we
interviewed
chris
fray
who's,
a
professor
at
nc
state,
but
now
is
an
in
an
administrative
position
at
epa,
and
so
we
talked
about
epa
and
the
biden
administration
versus
the
trump
administration.
So
yeah
I
encourage
people
to
check
it
out.
It
is
on
you
know
you
can
find
it
on
apple,
podcasts
and
stitcher
and
spotify
and
all
of
the
sort
of
main
you
know,
platforms.
A
Terrific
well,
thank
you
guys
for
sharing
all
your
experience
with
us
and
we
love
partnering
with
you
and
the
research
and
work
that
you
guys
are
doing
at
carnegie
mellon
on
air
quality.
Subu
albert
you
guys
are
friends
of
the
grant
street
experience
and
rebecca,
and
I
appreciate
you
joining
us
today
and
sharing
a
little
bit
of
wisdom
with
us.