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From YouTube: The Grant Street Experience: Ken Thompson
Description
On this episode of The Grant Street Experience, Grant Ervin and Rebecca Kiernan talk to Ken Thompson from the University of Pittsburgh.
A
Hello
and
welcome
to
another
episode
of
the
grant
street
experience.
I'm
your
host
grant
irvin
happy
to
be
here
with
all
of
you
today
we
have
a
special
guest
with
us
today,
dr
ken
thompson,
ken.
How
are
you
today
very
good?
It's
wonderful
to
be
here
great
to
have
you
and
also
co-host
extraordinaire,
rebecca
kiernan,
with
a
new
background
rebecca.
How
are
you.
A
A
I
think
that's
what
they
amount
to
these
days.
What's
good
to
see
both
of
you,
ken
welcome
to
the
grant
street
experience,
it's
good
to
have
you
on
board.
Here
we
have
a
bunch
of
bunch
of
questions
that
we
want
to
run
through
with
you
and
you're
a
timely
man
at
the
moment,
given
kind
of
the
the
times
that
we
live
in,
and
we
wanted
to
check
in
with
you
on
a
variety
of
issues:
mental
health
and
community
engagement
and
partnering,
with
glaswegians
too
or
another
big
topic
that
we
wanted.
A
C
So
that's
called
a
community
psychiatrist
and
it's
it's
it's
a
part
of
the
of
the
practice
which
is
really
built
around
community
mental
health
and
addressing
the
challenges
that
people
have
in
day
to
day
situation
tend
to
focus
on
people
who
are,
you
know,
don't
have
a
lot
of
money,
so
we're
not
talking
about
the
the
classic
psychoanalytic
sitting
on
a
couch.
You
know
with
somebody
who
is
very
anxious
and
worried
and
has
millions
of
dollars
to
spend
on
analysis.
C
This
is
much
more
out
of
a
community
mental
health
center
or
primary
health
center.
It's
where
I
do
my
kind
of
clinical
work
60
years
ago
right
around
now,
maybe
in
a
month
or
so,
I
I
came
to
pittsburgh
or
at
least
figuratively,
transpose
myself
to
pittsburgh,
because
the
pirates
beat
the
yankees
and
at
that
time
I
was
living
a
six-year-old
boy
living
the
yankee
dream,
and
then
that
was
shattered
and
I
decided
I
wanted
to
leave
that
loser
town.
C
C
So
I
had
for
a
while
a
long,
federal,
bureaucratic
title
and
but
most
salient
to
the
questions.
I
think
you're
going
to
ask
me,
in
addition
to
sort
of
the
clinical
stuff
what
I've
also
been
really
interested
in
and-
and
this
is
because
of
an
exposure
early
on
in
my
medical
school
days.
I
spent
some
time
actually
in
scotland-
maybe
the
reasons
for
that
will
come
up
later.
But
the
key
thing
that
I
learned
there
was
that
that
what
makes
people
healthy
and
what
makes
people
ill
is
not.
C
C
If
you
just
to
say
a
word
there,
there
are
some
maps
of
of
pittsburgh
that
look
at
premature
mortality
and
you
will
not
be
surprised
to
find
that
that
the
wealthy
neighborhoods
people
live
about
as
long
as
human
beings
can
live,
that
we
know
of
and
folks
in
poorer
neighborhoods
are
living
about
30
to
40
years
average
less.
We
can
get
that
low
yeah.
It
can
get
down
from
from
45.
You
know,
50
years
old
of
average
age
of
death
or
premature
mortality
to
up
to
90..
C
C
Yeah
exactly
if
we
could,
if
we
could
diversify
it
around
now
that
we
can
get
into
this
a
little
bit
later
on.
There
is
some
question
about:
if
there's
more
inequality,
does
it
make
that
gradation
even
steeper
right?
Does
it
make
the
inequalities
drive,
drive
people
to
be
even
poorer
and
less
healthy,
but
at
any
rate,
all
of
that
is
to
say
that
the
circumstances
people
live
in
make
a
big
difference.
So
therefore,
how
a
city
thinks
about
itself
how
it's
organized
how
its
economy
runs?
A
C
You
know
so
I
went
to
what
what
happened
was.
I
went
to
the
uk
and
actually
to
edinburgh
of
scotland
in
1980
to
do
a
an
elective
while
I
was
in
medical
school
and
that
year
is
notable
because
it's
the
year
right
after
maggie
thatcher
came
in
and
it's
a
year,
ronald
reagan
gets
elected,
so
we're
we're
looking
at
the
institution
of
the
sort
of
neoliberal
regimes
are
starting
up.
C
There
was
a
report
written
in
the
uk.
It's
called
the
black
report
and
it
was
a
an
analysis
of
mortality
rates
in
in
the
uk
and
it
showed
a
very
distinct
class
gradation.
All
the
stuff
I
was
just
talking
about
the
first
place
that
I
was
really
gathered
together
and
presented
is
in
this
black
report.
C
So
so
I
go
off
to
the
uk,
I'm
expecting
to
learn
all
about
the
national
health
service,
and
what
I
learned
is
that
the
national
service
is
important
and
it's
a
good
thing
and
it's
nice
that
people
have
access
to
good
medical
care
which
which
they
do.
In
the
uk
I
mean
it's,
they
have
really
pretty
good
access
to
primary
health
services,
but
despite
having
really
good
access
to
primary
health
services,
they
still
had
degradation.
C
You
know
that
the
poor
folks
down
at
the
bottom,
very
rich
at
the
top
and
everybody
kind
of
lining
up
in
between,
despite
the
fact
that
they
all
had
access
to
really
good
medical
care
in
the
united
states.
We
were
still
thinking
and
we've
shifted-
that
if
you
got
everybody
good
primary
care
or
good
insurance,
that
everybody's
health
would
improve
and
that's
a
little
bit
true
I
mean
that's,
I
don't
want
to
dismiss
it,
but
it
isn't
actually
what's
making
people
really
sick?
What's
making
people
really
sick?
C
Is
the
situations
that
they're
living
in
and
and
the
equity
issues
are
really
pretty
profound
in
that
both
on
kind
of
the
intersection
of
race
and
class
and
gender
plays
a
role
in
this
too,
as
well,
so
the
so
I
got
into
this.
I
go
to
the
uk,
I
come
back
and
I
think
all
right.
I
can't
just
think
about
how
I'm
going
to
take
care
of
people
who
see
me
in
my
office.
C
I
have
to
think
about
a
sort
of
public
health
approach
and,
as
I
think
about
this
public
health
approach,
it
becomes
clear
and
clear
that
that
all
of
the
tools,
like
housing,
transportation,
what
kind
of
job
you
have
what
kind
of
income
you
have
is
dependent
on.
You
know
our
taxation
policies
and
our
our
policies
about
how
we
distribute
and
run
the
welfare
state.
All
those
things
become
really
kind
of
part
of
the
process.
For
me,
I
come
to
pittsburgh,
so
I
came
back.
C
So
one
of
the
things
they
did
was
a
an
initiative
to
look
at
mental
health.
They
had
a
commission
on
mental
health
in
the
united
states,
and
one
of
the
things
that
came
out
of
that
was
that
the
sort
of
circumstances
that
people
live
in
drive
mental
health
as
they
do
other
aspects
of
health
and-
and
I,
in
that
federal
role.
I
was
involved
in
starting
to
think
about
how
how
do
the
what
we
now
call
social
determinants
of
health?
C
So
I
went
there
in
2000
to
find
out
about
the
health
action
zones
were
relatively
new.
Then
I
went
to
find
out
about
them.
I
actually
ended
up
spending
two
months
in
glasgow,
studying
the
health
action
zones
and-
and
I
realized
when
I
was
there-
that
not
only
was
it
an
interesting
idea-
the
health
action
zones.
I
also
realized
that
there
was
something
about
de-industrialized
cities
or
post-industrial
cities
that
that
linked
us
together.
C
In
a
way
you
know,
I'd
had
experience
in
new
york
and
I've
been
in
boston,
but
but
there's
something
about
a
place
that
was
built
around
making
things
and
and
heavy
industry,
and
you
know
the
kind
of
place
that
pittsburgh
was
the
kind
of
place
I
grew
up
in
yeah
went
to
glasgow
and
it's
it's
the
same.
Damn
place,
I
mean
they
talk,
weird
right.
Well,
we
do
here
we
do
too,
as.
C
Yeah,
you
know
so
so
I
go
off
to
to
glasgow
and
I'm
and
I'm
talking
to
to
folks
there,
and
I
realized
that
that
that
that
we
are
a
kind
of
a
particular
kind
of
city
and
there
are
other
cities
like.
I
got
to
go
to
a
bunch
of
other
post-industrial
cities
in
the
uk
and
came
back
to
the
united
states,
and
you
know
obviously,
you've
got
cleveland
and
akron
and
buffalo,
and
you
know
cincinnati
and
and
and
detroit
we've
got
a
world
of
cities
that
we
use.
C
In
those
days
we
barely
talked
about
them,
they'd
kind
of
all
been
flushed
down
the
toilet.
Nobody
really,
you
know
the
mistake
on
the
lake
all
this
stuff
and
you
know
baltimore
as
well.
So
so
I
got
really
interested
in
this
idea
that
it's
it's
not
just
it's
not
just
about
health
equity,
and
it's
not
just
about
for
me.
C
It's
also
about
what
the
future
of
these
cities
in
these
regions
are
and-
and
my
awareness
of
that
has
just
continued
to
grow.
I
put
together
a
couple
of
conferences
in
the
early
2000s
on
post-industrial
cities
and
health
and
and
well-being,
and
how
to
achieve
equity
and
brought
a
bunch
of
cities
together.
To
do
that
back
then,
that
kind
of
launched
this.
A
You
know
that's
interesting,
and
I
mean
there's
a
lot
to
unpack
in
here.
One
of
the
things
that,
if
you
could
talk
to
us
about
is
the
idea
of
in
each
of
those
places
tectonic
shifts
right.
Like
you,
you
mentioned
kind
of
you
know
the
thatcher
reagan
kind
of
shift
right,
you
know,
so
that's
a
huge
political
shift,
the
deindustrialization
of
these
places
and
what
that
means
in
terms
of
loss
of
agency
or
the
loss
of
a
job.
It
leads
to
a
loss
of
agency.
A
C
C
Right
well,
there's
another
element
in
this
picture
that
I
have
to
bring
in
on
the
psychiatric
side,
and
it's
it's
interesting
that
we
we
kind
of
knew
it.
We
just
didn't
talk
about
it
in
the
same
way,
starting
in
the
late
70s
mid
to
late
70s.
We
start
having
this
concept
of,
what's
called
post-traumatic
stress,
stress,
introduced
into
american
culture,
and
it's
brought
in
specifically
around
the
vietnam
vets.
C
C
We've
realized
now
that
trauma
is
much
more
ubiquitous
and
much
more.
You
know
it's
not
just
limited
to
combat
situations
or
motor
vehicle
accidents.
It's
actually
related,
unfortunately,
to
huge
amounts
of
trauma
that
children
experience
particularly.
You
know,
abuse
and
neglect,
but
a
whole
range
of
kind
of
adverse
effects
or
events
that
happen
to
kids.
C
So
we
began
to
think
a
little
bit
more
about
how
how
these
kinds
of
disruptions
impact
on
people
and
one
of
the
things
we've
learned-
and
it
was
was
known
at
the
time
that
unemployment
and
you
know
being
kind
of
disengaged
from
day-to-day
activities
that
that
bring
you
both
money
and
purpose,
and
the
reasoning
you
know
get
up
in
the
morning
that
these
were.
It
was
really
bad
for
people
to
experience
that,
but
we've
we've
had
over
the
time
and
I
think
it
became
clearer.
C
You
know
as
time
went
forward
it's,
I
think,
pittsburgh's
experience
of
the
industrialization.
We
were
a
little
bit
ahead
of
the
curve
at
the
national
level.
I
think
steele
really
bid
it
here
harder
first,
so
we
didn't
really
grasp
this
and
I
I'm
I
don't
know
if
any
of
you
guys
have
run
across
it.
I
find
almost
no
studies
of
what
happened
to
the
people.
C
When
steel
crashed,
I
mean,
there's
just
there's
one
study
that
came
out
of
pitt
this
department
of
social
work,
but
you
know
there
should
have
been
reams
and
reams
of
effort
to
understand
what
happened
to
people
nothing
very
little
so,
but
but
to
come
back
to
your
question.
So
we
had
to
understand
that
trauma
was
impacting
on
people,
and
what
we've
come
to
understand
is
that
there
are
various
levels
of
trauma.
There's
the
trauma
at
the
individual
level,
and
that
is
sort
of
you
know.
You
have
a
dissolution
of
your
life
plans.
C
You
lose
your
agency,
you
know
your
capacity
to
sort
of
direct
things.
You
are
now
less
able
to
to
decide.
What's
going
to
happen
in
your
life,
you,
you
lose
a
significant
amount
of
self-esteem,
there's
a
significant
amount
of
shame
in
this.
A
lot
of
this
is,
you
know,
particularly
the
steel
industry.
You
know
impacted
men
in
particular
we
weren't
as
diversified
and
we're
still
not
as
diversified
and
made,
obviously
in
the
in
in
what
kind
of
work
people
do
by
gender
and
also
by
race.
C
But
there
were
lots
of
men
who
were
impacted
by
this,
and
men
do
very
badly
when
they
have
something
bad
happen
to
them.
They
don't
usually
talk
well
on
it.
It's
a
genderized
sort
of
overstatement,
but
it's
fair
to
say
so.
Drinking
and
other
kinds
of
things
that
get
people
into
trouble
are
are
likely
outcomes
so
so
on
the
individual
level.
C
You
know
some
people
really
struggle.
Other
people
are
more
resilient.
They
have
things
that
they
turn
to.
They've
got
some.
You
know
kind
of
capability
or
capacity
to
find
an
opportunity
that
they
can,
that
they
can
work
with
or
they're
they're.
More
capable
of
you
know
stepping
back,
and
you
know,
moving
from
a
union
job
to
to
retail
right
and
those
kinds
of
things
or
some
people
can
do
that,
so
that
it's
a
variable
thing.
It's
it's.
C
What
you
find
is
a
tendency
for
people
in
communities
to
really
just
hunker
down,
and
they
they
get
they
for
periods
of
time.
They
really
kind
of
pine.
For
a
return
of
what's
been
lost.
Don't
can't
really
imagine
that
they
have
to
really
rethink
what
they're
doing
it
takes
a
long
time
for
that
to
sort
of
sink
through
and
not
to
not
to
feel
like.
You
could
just
bring
steel
back
tomorrow,
and
we
saw
that
in
pittsburgh.
B
C
Yeah,
I
think
I
think,
actually
it
it
it.
You
know
so
individuals
exist
in
a
web.
You
know
I.
I
can't
speak
english
by
myself
to
myself
alone.
I
would
never
learn
english
by
myself
to
myself
alone,
so
we're
in
this
web
of
ideas
of
how
we
think
and
understand
things
how
we
express
stuff
and-
and
I
think
that
the
web
gets
infected
by
the
trauma.
You
know
there's
this
there's
this
sort
of
feeling
that
you
know
the
the
the
emotions
behind
it
are.
C
C
I
kind
of
just
want
to
go
through
my
day
and
limit
my
losses,
and
I
think
that
that's
sort
of
what
people
tend
to
do
and
it
makes
you
in
general
it
makes
people
as
a
collective,
really
pretty
weary
about
where
they're
gonna
go
and
what
they're
gonna
do
into
the
future
and
and
it
it
takes
a
while.
It's
it's,
it's
also
a
kind
of
grief.
C
You
know,
so
it's
so
it
it
does
have
a
trajectory
of
resolution
over
time,
but
but
in
that
process
you
know
in
pittsburgh,
for
example,
huge
numbers
of
people
had
to
leave
right.
Yes,
people,
we
had
a
huge
diaspora
we
have
and
in
that
a
lot
of
young
people
took
off.
So
so
some
of
the
people
who
are
more
willing
to
kind
of
do
things
innovatively.
You
know
it
took
us
a
long
time
to
become
a
magnet
for
any
kind
of
youth,
and
so
that
innovation
disappears.
A
B
C
A
I
I
was
born
and
raised
in
the
pittsburgh
area,
but
both
of
you
have
come
in
from
other
places
I
mean
rebecca.
I
mean
you're
you're
you've
been
here
for
over
10
years.
Now,
ken
you
know
over
over
30,
but
like
do
you
guys
what
were
some
of
your
initial
reactions
in
terms
of
like
the
regional
psychiatric
condition?
I
guess
like
moving
to
pittsburgh.
B
C
C
The
the
nature
of
the
city
and
the
feeling
of
the
city
has
really
changed,
and
it
and
and
one
aspect
of
it
that
I
think,
is
it's
it's
hard
to
really
think
about
it
at
the
moment.
Back
then
to
be
back
in
that
moment
exactly,
but
from
this
perspective
the
city
was,
and
there
were
still
lots
of
problems
right,
race,
gender
issues,
all
kinds
of
stuff
that
we
would
think
of
as
real
problems
today
were
very
in
very,
very
prevalent
back
then,
but
despite
that,
there
was
also
this
sense
that
you
were.
C
You
were
a
pittsburgher,
and
it
was
that
the
city
kind
of
the
people
have
some
solidarity
with
each
other
at
some
level.
I
I
don't.
I
don't
really
know
how
to
put
my
finger
on
that.
I
I'm
not
sure
that
isn't
just
a
fantasy
of
mine
now,
many
years
later,
looking
back
on
it,
it
also
had
this
kind
of
gritty
authenticity.
C
C
You
know
why
would
you
ever
be
in
the
city
of
pittsburgh
when
you
could
go
to
boston,
you
could
go
to
new
york,
you
go
to
san
francisco,
you
go
to
colorado,
get
the
hell
out
of
pittsburgh.
Nobody
stays
in
pittsburgh
now
and
I
don't
know
if
people
in
new
york
are
sitting
there
saying
I'm
getting
the
hell
out
of
new
york
who
stays
in
new
york.
I'm
going
to
pittsburgh.
A
C
B
C
You
know
they
are:
they
are
distinctly
different
levels
you
know,
but,
but
I
I
sort
of
think
about
it
in
this
way.
They're
they're,
both
they
are
also
fractals
of
each
other
right,
there's
a
little
bit
they're
elements
of
each
of
them
in
the
other,
so
you
run
into
people
who
have
the
the
feeling
and
the
belief-
and
this
has
been
particularly
true-
there's
this
notion-
that's
out
there
and-
and
this
has
been
kind
of
a
you
know
before
covid
was
really
kind
of
consuming
me.
C
What
we
find
is
that
in
the
last
five
years,
or
so,
particularly
among
white,
less
educated,
some
more
manual
working
class
kind
of
white
population,
you
have
in
the
history.
For
the
first
time
in
the
history
of
the
united
states,
you
actually
have
the
average
age
of
death
decreasing
right,
so
that
they're,
instead
of
living
longer,
they
are
dying
earlier
and
that's
a
bend
in
the
curve
right.
C
C
C
Who've
died
from
opiates
and
and
suicide
and
alcohol
over
the
last
10
years
is,
you
know,
mounting
up
to
probably
getting
close
to
a
million
people.
So
it's
it's
a
it's
a
and
those
people
are
all
dying
young.
You
know
they're
dying
in
their
30s
and
40s,
some
in
their
20s
and
and
that's
that's,
been
a
very
significant
loss,
and
I
think
that
that's
that's
an
individual
example
of
a
collective
force
right
of
a
collective
trauma.
A
C
C
I
you
know
I've
been
so
this
is
in
and
grant
I'm
going
to
credit
you
for
helping
me
to
understand
this.
So
I
used
to
think
about.
This
was
all
about
just
de-industrialization
as
a
you
know
like
you
have
plants,
and
you
don't
have
the
plants
anymore,
because
you've
either
automated
or
you've
moved
the
plants
overseas
right,
because
there's
a
market
now
overseas
and
we
you
don't-
have
to
have
the
market
all
the
production
here,
you
can
have
it
elsewhere.
That's
how
I
used
to
think
about.
C
Right
we
were,
we
were
all
places
that
were
built
on
extraction,
so
industrial
places
tend
to
be
places
that
were
built
on
extraction
and
as
we
move
away
from
the
kind
of
extraction
that
we've
been
doing
for
the
last
150
years,
200
years,
those
places
are
going
down
the
tubes
they're
they're
having
the
same
problem.
So
it's
it's
essentially
the
extraction
zones
that
are
having
the
hardest
time
right
now,
exactly
as
we
as
we
move
to
try
to
figure
out
how
to
get
energy
in
a
different
way.
A
A
Two
things
maybe
rebecca
if
you
can
touch
upon
for
folks
like
the
issue
of
energy
burden
or
as
our
scottish
friends
call
it
fuel
poverty
and
what
the
impact
of
that
is,
because
it's
this
confluence
of
these
issues
coming
together,
both
from
like
the
physical
aspects
of
how
we
heat
and
warm
our
homes.
But
also
can
you
know
the
mental
impacts
like
the
stressors
that
are
on
people's
lives
in
terms
of
managing
managing
their
everyday
health
and
wellness
and
the
stress
that
they
feel
but
rebecca.
B
The
study
of
what's
called
as
what's
known
as
energy
burden.
So
that's
the
proportion
of
your
income
that
you
spend
on
your
utility
bills
in
this
case
just
energy,
but
there's
also
analyses
that
are
done,
but
not
as
well
for
water,
but
so
in
pittsburgh
we
actually
have
the
sixth
worst.
We
are
the
sixth
worst
sixth
worst
city
in
the
u.s
for
energy
burden.
That's
and
the
second
worst
for
a
black
population.
B
B
B
We
also
lack
a
significant
amount
of
insulation,
so
most
of
our
households
are
very
leaky,
but
we
also
pay
some
of
the
lowest
rates
in
the
country
because
we're
so
close
to
that
extraction
point
especially
for
natural
gas.
So
what's
really
interesting
about
this,
when
you
start
to
dig
into
it
is
that
we
pay
some
of
the
lowest
rates
in
the
country,
but
we
have
some
of
the
highest
energy
bills
in
the
country
and
that's
because
our
house,
our
housing
stock,
is
so
leaky.
B
We
get
a
lot
of
those
those
poor
air
quality
emissions
that
come
from
coal-fired
power
plants
and
national
natural
gas
fired
power
plants
within
the
region,
and
we
also
see
those
health
impacts,
those
negative
health
impacts.
There
was
a
study
that
was
done
recently.
That
said
in
pittsburgh
we
were
the
the
highest
out
of
any
of
the
cities
that
were
studied.
B
B
C
Yeah
this
is
this
directly
ties
into
the
you
know
the
the
critical
importance
of
a
just
transition,
because
the
the
flip
side
of
that
study-
which
I
don't
know
if
anybody
talked
about
it
or
thought
about
it,
is
and
and-
and
I
honestly
don't
know
what
the
what
the
impact
would
be.
So
I'm
I'm
just
talking.
Theoretically,
the
flip
side
of
that
study
would
be
to
say,
okay
well,
we'll
we
won't
have
any
of
that
extraction.
You
know
we
won't
do
that
stuff
here,
we'll
have
it
done.
C
Someplace
else
and
the
energy
will
come
here
without
all
the
the
health
costs,
but
we
also
won't
have
any
jobs
right
because
they're
not
going
to
be
employed,
doing
that
work
and
and
the
and
the
challenge
there-
and
this
is
where
I
think
we
we
there's
a
real
struggle.
Is
it
is
really
important
that
you
live
in
a
clean
environment?
C
It's
it's
essential
right,
you've
got
to
have
it.
You
also
have
to
have
a
job
yeah,
if
you
don't
have
a
job
you're
in
a
dirty
environment
by
definition,
and
if
you
have
a
job
and
you're
living
in
a
dirty
environment.
You're
in
a
dirty
environment,
even
though
you
have
a
job
so
so
the
the
challenge,
I
think,
is
to
try
to
figure
out
how,
as
we
move
out
of
this
extraction
industry,
that
has
you
know,
it's
got
two
problems
that
we
have
to
face.
C
C
I
talked
a
little
bit
about
this
sort
of
notion
about
being
a
pittsburgher.
I
I
think
that
that's
that
actually
extends
to
sort
of
western
pennsylvania
and
I've.
I've
heard
I
don't
know
if
this
is
still
the
truth,
but
there
were
two
two
areas
of
the
country
that
had
the
least
amount
of
of
of
of
people
voluntarily
moving
out
of
them.
C
C
It's
not
it's
not
possible
to
leave
once
you're
here,
but
I,
but
I
think
that
there
is
this
challenge
of
really
trying
to
figure
out
how
we're
going
to
make
sure
that
people
can
be
economically
prosperous
in
the
face
of
moving
out
of
the
extraction
industries,
which
were
for
a
while,
incredibly,
economically
prosperous
for
some
people,
and
at
least
allowed
other
people
to
you
know,
have
jobs
that
they
that
they
unfortunately
soiled
their
environment.
With.
A
Yeah
a
couple
things
just
to
be
conscious
of
our
time
here
I
want
to
hit
on
a
couple
things
that
you
guys
have
brought
up
and
we've
danced
around
it
a
little
bit.
But
and
can
you
talk
about
the
the
pittsburgh
glasgow
partnership
and
and
kind
of
how
it
originated,
and
also
like
one
of
the
things
just
on
this
just
transition?
A
What's
interesting
about
that?
Is
that
both
places,
as
well
as
other
kind
of
post-industrial
cities
have
reinvented
themselves,
and
this
idea
in
pittsburgh,
whether
it
was
steel
or
glasgow
and
in
the
shipbuilding
industry
found
a
new.
The
city's
found
a
new
life
and
the
people
found
a
new
life
in
many
cases,
so
maybe
a
little
bit
about
the
partnership
and
what
led
to
that
some
of
those
points
of
new
discovery.
I
guess
great.
C
C
So
this
was
sort
of
like
you
know,
serendipity
it's
sort
of
like
it's
sort
of
like
grant
on
grant
street,
but
just
how
could
it
be
anything
else
and
we
put
together
a
proposal
to
look
at
resilience
as
a
tool
for
health
equity
in
a
in
a
city
that
was
post-industrial
and
was
really
trying
to
redesign
itself
to
be
a
resilient
city?
And
how
could
that?
C
C
That's
it
and
then
you
can
add
anything
you
want
to
it
like
beautiful
energy,
efficient,
you
know
equitable
anything
you
want,
but
the
concept
was
that
what
made
the
city
resilient,
what
made
the
city
resilient?
Wasn't
the
infrastructure
per
se,
although
that's
really
important
right?
What
makes
the
city
resilient
is
the
nature
and
the
capacities
and
the
capability
of
the
peoples
to
work
to
do
things
together
for
themselves
and
for
each
other
and
and
so
that
that
has
fueled.
C
C
I
mean
they
punched
way
above
their
weight
in
terms
of
the
number
of
people
here
and
what
they
produce
and
what
they
did
in
this
country
in
this
in
the
in
the
economy
that
we
live
in
in
the
nations
we
live
in,
so
I
don't
think
it's
really
inappropriate
for
pittsburgh
to
dream
big
we've
we've
saved
ourselves
from
catastrophe
and
we'd
already
built
ourselves
up
to
be
something
really
pretty
extraordinary
before
so.
Why
not?
A
It's
interesting,
you
know,
you
know
the
the
times
that
we're
in-
and
I
I
I'd
be
remiss
if
I
don't
ask
about
this-
is
that
we're
in
the
midst
of
a
global
which
has
wrought
all
kinds
of
havoc
on
us
and
and
both
yukon
and
rebecca,
have
been
part
of
a
a
small
group.
That's
been
thinking
about
kind
of
covered
and
recovery
from
the
pandemic.
A
You
know,
and
I'd
be
interesting
to
hear
from
both
of
you
in
terms
of
some
of
your
reflections
about
you
know
rebecca
kind
of
like
what
what
can?
What
can
we
see
in
the
future
is
what
is
an
opportunity
coming
out
of
this?
This
you
know
acute
challenge
or
acute
shock
and,
and
ken
I'd
be
interested
in
kind
of
your
reflections,
both
from
kind
of
the
the
mental
health
challenges
that
people
have
experienced
in
dealing
with
this
the
pandemic,
but
also
like
what?
A
B
B
B
A
A
You
know,
I
think,
we've
seen
some
of
that
separation,
but
you
hearken
back
to
kind
of
you
know
kind
of
may
june,
and
you
know
we
were
all
in
it
together
and
like
how
do
you
kind
of
call
on
that?
I
mean
that's
a
really
good
point,
ken.
How
about
you?
I
mean
you
know
one
of
the
things
too,
that
we
we've
learned
through
our
our
glasgow
partnership.
A
I
think,
has
been
that
the
challenges
of
isolation
and
loneliness
and
how
they
just
can
you
know,
wreak
havoc
on
on
the
human
condition
and
human
experience.
I
mean
we're
social
creatures
right
and
we
we
feed
on
kind
of
our
relationships
with
one
another
I
mean,
do
you
have
just
some
some,
not
just
clinical
thoughts,
but
you
know
kind
of
things
that
you're
seeing
that
you'd
like
to
reflect
on
so.
C
Yeah
I
do
and
it's
you
know
we
when
we
were
talking
about
the
the
idea
of
how
we
might
build
back
better
and
what
what
what
we
could
do,
the
kind
of
slogan
that
vice
president
biden's
running
on.
I
was
in
a
slightly
different
place
than
I
am
at
right
now
and
and
I'm
and
I'm
going
to
say
this,
I
I
think
the
solidarity
is
really
the
critical
thing.
C
You
know
how
we
can
be
separate
from
each
other
enough
to
be
survive
the
covid,
but
in
that
process
bring
ourselves
together
enough,
in
whatever
mechanisms
we
can
digitally
or,
however
else
we
can
do
it
meeting
outside
whatever
we
do
to
stay
in
touch
and
connected
with
each
other.
That's
that's
going
to
be
really
important,
but
I
think
unfortunately-
and
I
I
don't
want
to
say
this-
but
I'm
going
to
say
it-
because
it's
very
frustrating
to
deal
with
the
the
the
wish,
the
the
the
the
desire
for
things
to
be
better
faster.
C
So
today,
on
the
news
you
know,
there's,
oh,
we
might
have
it's
a
possibility.
It's
very
outlandish.
It
could
never
happen,
but
maybe
it
will
that
we're
going
to
have
to
distribute
the
vaccine
in
october,
right
and
and-
and
the
reason
I
mentioned-
that
is
that
that
makes
people
think
that
this
is
going
to
end
soon.
We've
had
in
this
process.
C
This
idea
that
this
was
going
to
end
soon,
and
I
think
that's
inhibited
us
from
actually
doing
some
of
the
really
hard
work
that
I
think
we
might
need
to
do
right
now,
so
that
so
the
answer
to
your
question
about
what
we're
going
to
gain
out
of
this.
I
think
it's
going
to
be
this.
I
think
we're
going
to
learn
that
we
really
have
to
learn
how
to
persevere.
C
A
C
If
it
turns
out
good,
that's
fine,
but
if
we
put
all
our
money
on
it,
turning
out
good
and
we
don't
plan
for
the
to
persevere
and
to
do
what
we're
going
to
have
to
do
we're
going
to
be
in
trouble.
So
so
the
bottom
line
is,
I
think,
right
now,
and
I
and
I'm
hopeful
you
know
at
the
city
level
to
help
think
about
this.
I
would
not.
I
would
not
plan
for
anything
but
the
worst
and
the
worst
would
be
that
we're
not
out
of
this
for
another
year,
yeah.
C
And
and
we're
going
to
have
people
and
I'm
starting
to
see
them,
people
are
getting
isolated,
they're
getting
stir
crazy.
They
need
some
way
to
maintain
their
morale
and
their
purpose
and
the
idea
that
there's
going
to
be
some
possibility
out
of
the
future
to
keep
going
and
that
that
is
something
we
got
to
learn
how
to
do
now.
A
Yeah
yeah,
it's
kind
of
building
the
metal
right
like
the
yeah
yeah.
That
is
really
kind
of
important
point.
You
know
one
of
the
things
that
we
do
here
to
kind
of
wrap
up
the
grant
street
experience
is.
We
have
a
little
little
kind
of
en
end
of
show
wrap-up,
which
is
what
are
you
reading?
What
are
you
listening
to?
What
are
you
watching
so
we're
always
kind
of
interested
to
to
learn
from
our
guests?
A
What
what
are
some
of
the
things
that
you're
consuming
one,
because
then
I
just
jot
down
a
list
that
I
try
to
keep
up
with.
So
I'm
looking
for
personally
good
ideas,
it's
a
little
selfish
question,
but
we
try
to
glean
from
it
in
terms
of
kind
of
what
what
folks
are
out
there
consuming
in
terms
of
entertainment
or
education.
A
C
C
Unfortunately,
but
this
is
so.
This
is
a
sort
of
history
of
the
last
40
years
and
how
we've
ended
up
in
the
place
that
we've
ended
up,
but
but
kind
of
going
through
the
chain
of
events
that
that's
gotten
us
here
and
it's
been
really
I've.
I've
really
enjoyed
it.
It's
it's
a
it's
an
interesting
read.
I
got
two
other
things:
I'm
going
to
share
and
they're
more
directly
related
to
being
in
pittsburgh.
C
I
did
the
the
40
mile
3000
foot,
some
serious,
climbing,
that's
some
serious.
There
was
a
hill
that
I
it's.
I
don't
even
know
where
the
hell
it
is
over
in
bel
air
in
bellevue
that
I
I
don't
know
how
the
hell
I
I
had
to
stop
halfway
up,
but
I
still
pedaled
all
the
way
up.
I
don't
know
how
I
did
it
and
I'm
in
it,
but
but
being
out
on
a
bike
in
this
region
is
phenomenal.
I
think
it's
world-class.
C
C
I've
ever
had
doing
anything,
it's
just
fabulous
and,
and
then
the
last
thing
is
I'm
just
going
to
mention
it's
a
plug,
and
I
don't
know
when
she's
going
to
do
it
again,
but
I
watched
quantum
theater
constellation,
there's
a
play
that
they
just
did,
but
they
did
it.
You
know
on
on
video,
you
know
broadcasting
it
and
it
was.
It
was
just.
It
was
great,
it
was
so
good
and
I
so
that's
it.
That's
awesome.
B
A
C
A
A
So
I
picked
that
up
and
it's
it
is
a
really
I'm
early
into
it,
but
it
is
really
good,
read
and-
and
just
you
know,
particularly,
I
think
for
this
time.
Like
rick
said
it,
it
just
gives
you
a
sense
exactly
what
you're
just
talking
about
ken
the
idea
of
perseverance
and
persistence,
and
what
is
you
know
internally
required
to
succeed?
A
A
A
C
C
A
I
I
yeah,
I
don't
want
to
dig
too
deep
into
it
like
it.
I
don't
think
it's
good
for
my
mental
health.
Well,
hey!
We
really
appreciate
this
rebecca,
as
always
ken
it's
great
to
spend
some
time
with
you
and
we'll
be
checking
in
with
you
soon.
Thank
you
for
giving
us
a
bit
of
your
time
and
sharing
all
this
great
knowledge,
true
asset
to
the
city.
We
appreciate
it
and
thank
you
thank
you
for
the
opportunity.
A
Yes,
so
thank
you
all
for
listening
in
to
the
grant
street
experience.
Thanks
to
dr
ken
thompson,
rebecca
kiernan,
our
pittsburgh
cable
team
bill,
joy,
alex
and
david.
We
appreciate
your
production
capabilities
and
we
thank
you
all
for
listening
in
and
sharing
your
time
with
us
thanks
so
much
and
have
a
great
rest
of
your
day.
Take
care.