City of Aiken, SC Design Review Board Meetings, 16 Feb 2021

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From YouTube: Design Review Board Work Session February 16, 2021

Description

Design Review Board Work Session
February 16, 2021
5:00 PM

Call to Order

Old Business
1) Review of Item on Future Agenda: Cumberland Lane SE

Adjournment

A

Ryan, uh this is informal and it looks like it's immediate for me, but it's not, um but we thought we'd we've been using work sessions, especially for new projects.

B

A

They seem to really be helpful to.

C

A

Little details that you really don't have time to do in a regular, regular meeting and you and you want to cover them before you get to the regular meeting actually, but a zoom meeting doesn't doesn't really facilitate that at all. It seems to work with our regular meetings, because we've got everything sort of pre-planned and we know what the application consists of. We look at it ahead of time.

A

So that's why we thought we didn't want to wait. Hold you up for a whole another month. So we appreciate you coming in yeah yeah and it's a it's a that end of town has been a focus.

A

It may not seem like it may not even look like it for a long time from city council and even in our our review board, because it's it's the sort of the entrance to the to the business district so to speak um and where the railroad depot- and I think the center center of the grid is like right out there in front of giles park.

A

That's the original center of town and then you've got giles park there and y'all are recognizing. Now that you have hit upon something, that's that that really can be, I think, a real uh uh kind of starting point to redevelopment down there. The depot is, you know that was the city's sort of uh step.

A

What was that eight, ten years ago, yeah we were you hearing aiken before they.

D

A

It it was just like you see it now, it was there until about 1954..

A

I remember seeing it you do too, because you're native josh is probably too young but and george bush george h.w bush actually arrived at that train depot to visit his relatives here in aitkin when he was a little boy.

A

So at any rate, that's where aiken started and, um and then giles park is kind of was originally part of that that depot and and uh the open space that's, the railroad may still have ownership of jobs park. I think.

C

I think they do.

A

Yeah, that's right and and when we we began looking through uh some of our old look and overlay, you know uh concepts when we saw what you were doing. We thought wow what an opportunity here. So we just want it to be the very best uh possible. You know solution and hopefully that'll make it successful, for you know for the for you guys too, but you know we came across sighting and construction. New buildings should respect significant natural and historic, open spaces and structures and and all and then orientation to the sun.

A

All those things that that's so I think you may already be addressing that are concerned with maybe orienting it. So you take advantage of the park and I think I even said wow it'll be neat driving out park avenue and look over and you see the townhouses.

C

A

um Now, if, um if you want, I think that might be a more I've said more than I need to, but if you wanted to come up to the mic and then we can uh that way, if you wanted to respond or add, I uh mayor catherine has given us some new information here and you would you like to tell us kind of what you're.

C

Yeah we uh we figured out that we could fit uh into the facing the park.

C

Okay, the balcony is more privacy yeah, instead of being jammed right between two other, even with so.

A

C

Liked uh your recommendation, we think it's it's a really nice improvement to the project.

A

Yeah, that's going to give everybody sun south exposure, everybody get some sun in the front and then not to mention it'll it'll give them a view of the park and hopefully the park can be improved. The city's had plans for years to restore it. There was a fountain at one time that maybe the remnants of the of the foundation, a stone fountain, is still out their circular found foundation. We understand.

C

That the uh railroad is not cooperative at all yeah.

D

C

City wanted to erect a fence yeah.

D

C

Get this railroad assignment.

E

Yeah, that's right. They tried for.

C

A

E

They tried for about eight years to do so. I serve on the the uh railroad uh board.

D

E

They they've been trying to work through the city and the railroad people. We were working with retired and then they had to start all over again.

F

E

They just have no, uh they. They just have no appetite for dealing with us.

C

No sense of urgency, and really from my experience in several places, could care less.

A

Exactly right, yeah, they've kind of forgotten to have a railroad and.

C

Who gave them the.

A

C

A

E

Do we have a do? You have another site map showing how you've redone this with the parking and everything? Yes.

C

Sir, it should be in the.

E

No, I I meant just one that's a little bit bigger. That gives us more of a like a flat type thing which just you know. I understand what.

F

E

And I appreciate that, but I was wondering if you had anything that kind of gave us a bigger picture of the of how.

A

Something a surveyor was saying.

E

A

Still working conceptually, I guess yeah.

C

Yeah we're right now finalizing the subdivision plan.

D

C

Once that's done, then we could provide that. I.

E

Think, on the next time that you come to us, if we could get something like that to kind of give us some kind of that 10 000 foot, look to see how it all you know.

A

E

And looks in the surrounding area too.

A

He's actually wondering if you've got something that shows the the right-of-way and the property lines and all.

C

E

You're not saying all that.

C

So we don't have that one.

A

Yeah and you've got a civil engineer that might be working. Yes,.

C

A

That uh so so um I guess I guess two things. One.

F

One is the.

A

You anticipate that you've got a um actual green uh uh area, open space, angular that'll, separate cumberland from the front porches. Am I looking at it right?

A

Am I looking at right where cumberland's down here and that's actually, the pavement you'll have the pavement, that's cumberland and then then you'll have a a little bit of front yard and then you'll have a sidewall. Yes, so they literally are.

A

You know that you've got a little bit of a common area. Perhaps.

C

Well, yeah: there's a lot of space there in front of our property.

A

D

C

Cumberland so.

A

Sure I think I think I'm trying to translate what john is asking is is the property line? Is approximately the the perimeter of this color.

D

A

D

Exactly yeah now.

A

Had y'all um had any contact with the neighboring uh property owners, we.

C

Talked with a lady, that's uh beside us behind us actually and to see if she would have an interest. She owns three lots: yeah.

D

C

uh Showed no interest at all.

A

Is that right? Jesus wants to leave, leave those little houses, as is.

C

I think so yeah, maybe uh in the future, when she realizes that she really has some valuable property. Yeah.

D

A

C

Really start thinking about it.

A

Yeah, because you could make that theoretically, I guess you can make that alleyway go on come.

D

A

C

That would be a nice nice finishing on that. Okay.

A

Do y'all do y'all have any any questions as far as the updated um layout or or anything. I.

E

I guess you were going to do.

E

I said I like this. I like the way you've got it staggered for the privacy, as you mentioned earlier now,.

C

One thing let me mention: uh I've been.

D

G

C

Adding some canvas awnings on the bottom units to give them a little more equality with the upper balcony. Do not have a hard plan on that yet, and they would come back to you in the future to.

A

C

To look at that.

A

Right so it would be you've got that porch, that's covering the lower unit, okay and then you're, seeing some canvas awning.

C

Look on the yeah.

D

C

Strikes and mixing stripes on some sides.

C

Yeah, the challenge always is to get try to give the bottom floor, something almost as good as the balcony upstairs.

D

A

And- and um I think we were we- we commented about maybe getting into too many details here, but anything that you can address the overhangs you're. Not you don't have any updated drawings we didn't expect any today. This is a quick.

C

I tried to get you a section through okay.

A

Couldn't get them again, but that's not a problem to just give us a little more.

C

We'll we'll have a section a little section.

D

A

D

C

To ask you about the overhang is 12 inches, a big big item with you.

A

C

A

A plus, a six plus twelve plus a gutter, would would be pretty good yeah. It's gonna have a gutter.

C

Yeah six-inch cutter yeah.

A

So and then the twelve and six would work pretty well. Okay, of course. Personally I mean this isn't really a a vote, uh a motion, or uh we can. We can discuss that. You guys y'all understanding. I think I think it's more like a six inch overhang now.

C

Yeah and the in the gutter uh on the second wall section through that we have does not show the gutter.

D

C

Drawing does not address that right.

A

At all, right um now now do you have a 12 and 12 roof over on chesterfield.

C

I believe it is a 12 12. yeah.

D

A

Yeah, it worked it they're, narrow enough where it doesn't get too too tall up there. I think uh eight and to ten is, is, is also relatively state. Six is kind of normal standard, you know, and anything above six is, is a little steep right.

E

A

It is if you're.

E

Standing on it.

A

It is absolutely it's hard. um I see some baptist churches around where they try to do a 12-12 and it kind of doesn't look right. You know it's it's columns and then a a sort of a classical.

A

Column, colonnade and all often doesn't have quite as steep as you see sometimes.

A

The the uh you working on the plan, I suppose, where now you may have a door from the rear to get in.

C

Storage rooms on the rear, what we've always tried to do is to make people use the front door as possible and therefore the walkways to get them to come.

A

With yeah, I think that's up to you, I don't know that we we have, we have some say so in terms of orientation.

A

And there's actually some comment about the door. The door maybe doesn't have to face the street. It should be well, it's actually directing the door to where the car is. I'm not sure, that's a show stopper. It's a curiosity.

A

C

Code does not require second.

A

Efforts yeah, I agree. Yeah.

A

You'd be caring, you reckon you'd be you'd, carry groceries pop those two walks, then.

C

A

C

Okay, chesterfield.

C

We have that central walkway, given the uh the tight site and what we're trying to fit into it. uh If we tried to modify the floor plan to uh to give a back door, it would be into the master bedroom.

A

C

Be new the what and the door would open into the master bedroom is there.

A

A store room back there, though, and that backs up and that backs up to the bedroom.

C

The parking lot backs up to.

D

A

Yeah, I see you've got a a closet, a master closet and then a master bathroom right back. There.

A

You know you, you don't reckon you could make one of your storage rooms, uh the closet and then just walk through the other storage room and right on in you, you would be coming through the bedroom, though I guess in the long.

C

B

C

You know that outside storage room, though I think, is valuable.

A

And now you've already got people living in these. You got two.

C

Or three we have three occupied yeah and we're keeping one to use as a model to pre-sell this project.

A

I guess you'd never be able to solve this problem for the people. On the second floor, they would have to have an outdoor stair on the back.

C

We've worked, this plan 15 different ways from sunday, and and this is the best that we can come up with. We end up with about 1200 square feet, which is a little bit larger than the chesterfield unit. 1200.

A

C

Think it's 1207 heated.

A

uh I'll go ahead and jump to the siding.

A

I know you're proposing vinyl here, even though we use hardy board on the others. Are you able to get that one hour rating with.

C

C

What we like about the dark color is: it sets.

A

C

A little difference kyle has such a bad reputation for the other psychologists to cheat and it's you know it's a much better product in my mind, because, anytime, you have to paint every five years. You have different homeowners. It gets to be a problem.

C

The best proof for me would be to ride through some of my subdivisions and closer that was 20 years old and.

C

One of the other issues have been the kind of weightis.

E

That's not due to the product, that's due to the installation. That's a good question point um there's, along with the length to run on the sides, how long are you going to run the vinyl before you have a break.

C

The thing that will make it not wavy is the violence backing right.

D

Okay, is there.

E

Going to be any phone behind that I know so, just.

B

Let me see these things just standard.

B

D

A

E

Get some I.

A

Don't like the.

C

E

It it also is a big moisture trap too. Sometimes.

C

We, you know, we think, based on the interest that we haven't just appeared and we're going to have investors looking for money for mental purposes and absentee landowners.

C

C

And I learned just other day that it's properly named cement.

C

H

One of these do you intend to use we're going.

C

H

Dark color yeah, but this this is forwarding.

C

That one okay, this is the one that is been used. Too often, it really doesn't look very supportive.

B

A

For some reason, our guidelines say: do not use uh wood grain.

A

I

H

A

Peggy katie was asking.

A

On page 91, did you find it.

I

She said 110. well.

A

That's on existing bill. Let's get back to new. I've got new buildings.

I

What's on those cottages next door, sorry, what kind of sightings on those cottages next door.

C

I do not know I can get an answer for you. Yes, um there's a front. Porch that's been closed and to get to see the siding. uh We'd have to go on to the property, but I can do that.

A

uh 110 page 110 has uh it just says: vinyl or hardboard. Siding with an exaggerated texture is not acceptable.

A

And it also says windows: insulated glass will be allowed, provided. Mutton grids when used are permanent and found on the exterior surface of the glass, and maybe we touched on that, but that is in our guidelines that you have a permanent mutton uh bar right here, catherine it over here. That's.

D

Released on the phone, oh.

D

D

A

Is good, that's right.

A

Okay, I think you've addressed one of the primary concerns. Brian was just orienting it to the part where the park can benefit your development.

A

Also yeah, it's gonna, I think, be a real asset to the park and maybe lead to some further um development on the park. They've talked about. You know restoring that fountain and and at one time, even having a band stand right there. I don't know.

E

That was part of that union street project. Wasn't it.

A

C

Street area plan.

A

It went actually.

I

Have you studied that? Have you looked at that in.

C

Detail yeah we have, we kind of feel like this project might be some of some sort of a catalyst.

D

C

Show some activity.

A

I think it predated the ministry of study, yeah you're, talking about this study that we may uh actually want to go back in. It isn't applicable as far as making motions at the meeting because it's not been adopted, but it has some interesting ideas that centered around uh development redevelopment around the world. I.

C

Think it's actually a long run of attached units running down.

A

Did you find it on the website.

C

We did the city manager.

A

Told me about it.

D

C

Back when so, we pulled it open right.

A

C

Was commissioned in 2011. yeah.

A

We may uh we got to talk to bosses over here, but we may be able to go in and and edit it review it see if, if we can maybe thin it down and see what would be appropriate and us could perhaps pass it along with a recommendation to planning commission, I.

E

Like that, we spent a lot of time back and forth.

I

The thing that's in there that is interesting to me is: it suggests that they take back cumberland lane from the state, and I don't know if that would give some more space in there, and I had idea that when you were coming out on cumberland lane and going around it kind of negated being able to take it back, because that was your access.

I

Does this one end here or does it go on around it?.

C

Ends it's one way in and one way out and that will allow us to fence and hide the back yards and charcoal grills, whatever that people might put in their backyard right there at overlooking cover.

I

And you don't have any dimensions of this.

C

The length of the cumberland is 114 feet and the length of the union street property is 136 feet. What was the first one 114 on cumberland.

A

But you would actually have to have the adjacent property owners involved to to put that in play to get uh some traffic flow.

A

You can always run into this property unless, in this level, they're willing to move their lots uh forward.

A

Well or any other any other comment: did you see that I.

E

Am looking at it right now I um and I apologize for being late. I had on my calendar we're meeting at 5 30., so I apologize um so I thought I was early, um but uh I'm sure you've already talked about it, uh mr south. But what was the reason for angling? The sidewalk like on the board.

C

Over there that's a part of staggering the units, and I had I could make it straight straight out.

E

Were you thinking staggering, the units would have more curb appeal or more privacy, or what were you thinking? Privacy.

C

And I think it.

I

Looks better I mean not just.

C

Actually, that sidewalk should be in the cities right away sitting on our property.

E

C

We'll never give more, it could run. You know about the property line.

E

Could- and I assume that what's in green is the minimum building.

G

A

There's not a there's, not a setback. There's.

E

G

E

You um with turning the buildings around and facing them towards the park, which I like have you thought about um trying to add more porch area to have more social.

E

You were talking a minute ago about grills and stuff in the back. You know to have more of a porch life. You know out front and be more commensurate with interacting with the.

C

Park and it's something that we can take a look at but which right now we're squeezed with high material costs and shortage of labor. And it's just not a good time to try to negotiate.

A

Yes, so now, let's get a consensus here. uh What I was sharing questions about the staggering one thing about the staggering it we commented about is it gives you it gives you some uh a green little little landscape area that I suppose that that the one of these units has a actual little front lawn. So to speak. That's that's on their property. Is that not right? That's correct! Okay and.

C

Then, when we move the sidewalk out to the right-of-way, uh that you know gives every unit except the last yeah last one or two more space.

E

If you thought about the fact that the the the one on the north end of your map there, I guess, was actually the wet east end of your map um with it not having any uh front yard at all that it may be. You know a lower value property versus the one that has the bigger front yard.

C

I don't think there'll be any difference, so I think it'll be you know whatever sells first, some people will want the bottom unit closer to richland and closer to the church, with more privacy on the side and others would prefer the other end. It's kind of like corner lots. Some people won't have anything buttercoin a lot and some people won't have a corner.

C

That's hard to predict, I don't think you were here. We thought about adding some canvas awnings on some of the downstairs units to give those porches a little better for you.

C

But that's something I would have to come back to you.

G

E

I know when, um when we look at the slide, that has the uh the side.

E

View right here, that's good! You know when you look at that back, you know, since there's no door back there or anything it just feels like this is not a backyard dwelling unit. This is a front yard dwelling unit and it seems like you would want to accentuate that by pushing them off the road and having a bigger front door space, because the doors are all in the front.

E

So why would anybody have a grill in the back it just that really seemed to make sense to me, and I, like the feel of being with the park and being a part of the park and having a bigger front porch on it. You know I just I think that goes more in with the the concept that they kind of laid out in the uh the review board, the slides that the guidelines that we had talked about.

A

And we're still doing it, we're very conceptual. I think the the gist of this now is. Is that they're suggesting staggering and then to generate a little more of a? I don't want to say common area, because it's actually going to be their front yard.

G

A

It's going to read like you, have some some landscape, green green area and now there's a there may or may not. I guess you need to find out from the city if there's going to be a sidewalk or is that the sidewalk- and this is the this- is the fence?

A

Well, you have some fences by the way. Little fences.

C

We intend to use that same shadow box that we.

A

C

In the front, and then also in the back.

A

Now how how tall are they.

C

uh We're getting five feet on chesterfield. We need four on the front surface on the front and five feet on the back: okay,.

D

C

End up with in the back is air air conditioning. It's kind of a.

C

A

And I don't think it would matter much on the back. The front might might be a little odd to have a five-foot fence right.

A

It's gonna have those people will have no contact with josh park, they'll be inside a um to me. It would have the appearance of this would might might it might give you nice space to grill steaks, but it it will look, it will may have the appearance of this being the rear of the building. I.

C

Mean we could take the front down to three feet and take the floor. I.

A

Would think I would think yeah you might the new buildings.

C

Out uh park uh have the three foot the.

A

Ones the ones on where now.

C

Park avenue the uh I think, there's six. Oh.

A

The ones further down- yes, yeah, that's right, it'd, be fairly typical to have a three foot. If you go up down collision avenue, for instance, they're about three feet and then you can see over them now. The first floor is: is it an el it is on? It is on a slab. I forgot elevated.

C

A

Elevated slab so it'll be about 16 18 inches above grade.

C

Four courses.

A

And now is there a wood deck? I'm asking a lot of questions, but this is probably the time because you're going to be bringing in some final drawings is there? Is there an elevated floor on that first floor, porch or not?

A

Well, you bring the slab right on out, for instance,.

C

No, the force would not be supposed.

A

To be on the ground, okay and that and that that's a cost consideration. If you were to bring the slab on out, it would appear to have a port of have a step up. Porch. Your steps would go up onto the porch, not.

C

Opposed to doing that, I don't think there's any significance.

E

That's the way it looks on.

D

A

Yeah that the uh that's.

G

Just the crawl space on what's on the slide.

A

Yeah, so so that that set of steps is up, underneath I'm trying to figure out exactly where that.

A

Where the front where the ground is, I see that that doesn't.

C

Really match that no, this is the plan, the initial plan for chesterfield street yeah, and it's not been adapted to this.

C

This was offered up as an example now.

A

Everything I see brian implies that the.

E

A

Of the unit the finished floor will extend on out and support. The columns is that is that not correct? That's true! That is true, good, okay, so you do. It does have a sort of raised point.

C

You have one step up: yeah.

A

C

A

What I'm seeing in this.

A

Yeah, because the columns are otherwise they're sitting on the ground, yeah.

A

It'll, give you another opportunity to kind of see out.

C

This this is representative only. This is not a detailed drawing showing all the particulars on the construction and how it's set up, and I think when we present you with a section through wall, uh a lot of questions.

D

Right yeah, I understand that.

I

So the side view is not shown here, but it is what the other view is right.

I

What does it look like on union street.

C

State will have the windows that we were showing earlier.

C

That's a picture, you wanted a picture of the chesterfield windows and that's it.

A

E

Did we approve that? Because I was thinking the window in the front of the house was deeper taller than that.

A

Window: okay, now brian uh we're getting off track because you're gonna you're gonna refer us to the side view there. It is katie. I think that's what union street would look like right, yeah.

I

Should it have shutters.

C

The end unit, on the other end down toward kershaw.

A

Off the top of my.

A

It won't have any oneness this. This one will because you've got a little more room.

C

A

Right um now were you: um she was asking about shutters.

A

You don't have shutters on the front. Do you no.

E

Not really room for them, yeah.

D

B

On the side, there would.

E

A

If they're, if they're, if they're vinyl shutters, I'm not sure they're going to add anything to it now, shutters are sort of tacky. Looking to me unless.

C

They're just out there.

I

Yeah, I can't I can't let vinyl shutters fly.

A

Later on, maybe somebody want to have a more substantial shutter.

I

um Did you look at putting the parking in the front.

C

I

I'm just wondering because if you have cumberland and you pushed it back, if you wouldn't have angled parking in in front so and then you could have the little fence and.

C

A

It's going to look like an apartment, complex, I'm afraid. If you pull cars into the front, I agree: it'll separate the pound houses from the park and.

C

Taking a few steps to the front.

C

A

um This is not a question any of us can answer, but as far as the city and what they might do in terms of curving, there's no curving there now, I'm sure, but there.

C

Is also the city there, yeah.

A

What what I'm getting around to is is typically, you could have some parallel parking um if somebody were to visit, or even if you were running in at lunchtime or something you could, you should be able to park on at least one or the other side of any any downtown.

C

D

E

I see what you're saying, but there should be enough room to say somebody goes gets groceries. They can pull up front, unload and move around there. Our lead car.

A

Right on the on the cumberland side, is there a cumberland view on in there y'all no.

A

Just saw one dude.

C

We have a street view.

A

Yeah, maybe not it's okay, it doesn't matter okay, okay, any other. uh I think you've really resolved about 90 percent of the some of our questions and concerns brian and so now, it'll be a little, I think, more comfortable for you to proceed on into construction documents and off on a final application. That's really what we're trying to do is give you enough time to incorporate.

A

That's that reorientium is, is a biggie to me, because I just know how long we've been trying to get something going down on josh park and.

C

We feel like we're kind of stretching the central.

A

A

I heard a moan over here.

I

I the way I feel about it is we're. Opening up a whole can of worms say that.

A

I

I feel like we're opening up a whole can of worms. I think there's a lot of activity getting ready to start over here and if you set precedence, then um what you're, talking about with new developments range of these just a roundabout?

I

What's the price range for these sales.

I

Is that a magic number I mean where you come? Why do you think 200 you couldn't get more for 1200 square.

C

The feet our last sale on chesterfield, which is the superior location, was two million times, and we had multitudes of miners and coated ram off three or four.

C

If we go to signal board, we need to move the pricing all up. It's going to cost about 8 dollars per building more and I think, by putting up a product that has to be painted in five years and again I'll refer back to how popular vinyl plant flooring.

C

So this is a superior product and the only reason that people are going.

C

So put these buildings this close together and you have two or three that don't paint when they need to and how has to do with core it's just otherwise. We have a very simple column over here that doesn't.

A

C

A

What was that? Meadowbrook willowbrook.

A

Okay- and this is columbia- that's not really that far away.

C

People are putting that vinyl for it down.

A

Oh yeah, that's a little bit different. I understand what you're talking about with lvt. It's, not it's! It's not cheap, lvt's, more expensive, sometimes in wood.

E

So does it have a fade warranty? This is it.

A

Yeah this one does. Let me look left here.

A

Now I saw it somewhere where you're getting more, because.

E

I'm familiar with say that it won't fade in consistently, but it still fades.

E

That's the worst.

D

A

B

The distance they can go before a lap.

A

Sorry, how how long does this come yeah.

E

You know that run are you, gonna have.

A

I know you'll have some on a 40 foot, long whatever it is.

C

I would imagine you got 16 foot lengths, the.

A

Front you could almost not have any.

I

A

You mentioned something like the chest feel would be.

G

This one's not supposed to paint at all superior.

A

Location, did you say that, yes,.

C

Simply because of the close distance to the restaurants.

E

I've always looked at this.

C

C

Those were hard to sell. They stayed on the market a good while and then they got hit by their recession.

C

Even before that's.

E

I

A

You're saying you're familiar with the ones on park, avenue we're talking about better.

B

A

H

I

Yeah they're five hundred thousand dollars. I.

A

Understand and he's saying, they've been hard to sell, looks real, crappy right exactly sure this has to do the same.

I

A

I

They sold that one on the end, pretty quick.

C

Yeah I was speaking of the initial offering when they were.

A

I just think once you establish vinyl, it's vinyl whether has lbt on the inside or not it's a vinyl townhouse and you you know you you, may you may be under rating the that location. I I I think you could you possibly could upgrade your your corner, you you have to charge more. We understand that you only you have what 10 of these.

B

You might eliminate.

A

Some people- maybe none of us here who would like to live downtown, would would purchase a vinyl sided house. I don't know I I've had I've had some wood, I've had to sand and paint, and all that I understand hardy board doesn't doesn't uh it. It holds paint better than wood. uh I would say.

D

Not five years.

A

Ten years, maybe ten years.

D

Yeah yeah, it's.

E

A

E

G

E

That the board's not going to rot, even if you don't repaint it correct.

D

B

E

A great paint that a lot of painters are using duration and then they've got another derivative to that. But um I've used it on my house and this lasted 12 years before.

A

And it's on what what's it on what oh, a woodwood, real wood? Okay, now you're yours on uh down on was it? Was it kershaw sumpter? Are they hardy board and how many years is that eight.

E

um The last one was finished in 2008., okay, it's been about 12 13 years.

A

Okay, probably hadn't been painted, yet not to my knowledge, yeah.

G

I think you know some. It's got.

A

A little bit of wood fiber and it's got some fungicide and uh even insecticide, I believe. Doesn't it bend hard hardy board, but it's mostly cement. That's why it's heavy.

A

So it may be that you have to come to the meet and see how we vote, but.

E

There's another aspect to it, too, is that uh for insurance.

B

E

Vinyl is going to be more expensive than a uh the hearty.

C

I always thought they rated those by the structure, metal well,.

E

You still you still there's there's some.

C

Some other requirements.

A

They give you credit is for brick veneers. If you've got a house made out of brick yeah, they they don't know, there's wood back there.

C

But back on on forecasting uh pricing, uh I had rather a air on the on the low side than to overshoot on the front yeah and be hung with uh and.

A

You've got a realtor you're working with. Are you doing it? Are you the realtor.

C

We're probably going to handle it ourselves because it's a tight budget, I'm a I'm, a licensed broker in charge and I'll join multiple listing and rep the project.

A

But you would, but you would share your breakfast fee if another realtor wanted to say.

C

Oh yeah just sell one just like any situation. Split the fee, yeah.

A

You might ask around I: I still think when you've got a that's a one-of-a-kind location, there's not any more lots facing giles park that you could. You could walk downtown right and you could go to any of these restaurants.

C

Have you visited giles park during the day.

A

uh Yeah I've been down there a lot.

C

Yeah, there's a crowd that hangs out. I know, and that takes a lot of the shine off of john's park. Yeah.

A

I

We're working on it, I.

A

Agree with that, we're working.

I

On works, I mean I want to see giles my shopping. Business is right down the road I was on park avenue. My heart is in this area. I want to see something quality there. I think it's one it's that center point of the whole grid system is right out there in front of giles park in that cockah triangle.

I

That's supposed to be a roundabout.

I

um You know, we've been talk of taking back park avenue to make it one lane, so we could put crosswalks in and stuff so, and every house in my neighborhood has been selling for 185 to 200 a foot, so I think you're underestimating. I really do well.

C

Remember we're 1200 feet and we're kind of as versus single-family yeah.

I

But I mean I, I think it could be a killer project. I want to see it be access, successful and go.

B

I

A real asset to the area because I have high, I think, there's a lot of stuff. That's going to happen.

A

Yeah you're, probably getting that's like kind of a good read here. I'm not.

C

Sure I'm seeing the writing on the wall.

C

We'll we'll grant and barrett and do the best we can.

D

If we have unsold.

C

Units so after six months, we'll come back to you and see if you want to buy some.

D

A

I think it eliminates some people that I understand where you're coming from trying to get the the price down but we'll just have to see. I mean we could do a straw poll, but I it sounds like you gotta. I.

C

Think we understand.

E

I just think that you, you gotta, I agree with kay. I think you've got a very unique area.

I

E

There's a detraction there but from what you described. But it's a great.

B

Area you've got the museum right.

E

There, the the thing that's a big plus uh you're, seeing more and more investment right in that time you see the church. Put that thing there and I think, with a big capital project like you're putting in there, I think you're going to see more people. uh You know it always takes one person.

E

You know at one pebble to get the ripples going and I think that's that's going to be a big plus, and you know, there's all kinds of opportunities katie's worked on and I have to to try to get the entertainment down in that area and turn that in certainly, the uh railroad committee is trying to work, and I think when you talk to them and try to get them to understand what you're doing and talk to uh tim simmons in that group that you'll get some. You know some support from them as well.

E

On doing this thing, but and look at that, kids making that I mean that's, you know it used to be the end of it. Now people are coming there and starting down there as much as they are anything else, but.

C

One thing we would do is have a grand opening out there and maybe after hours, right utilizing the train station and it's gorgeous front yard as an outdoor event, and you know, be a good marketing ploy from allison south marketing. Who has some great ideas so well.

G

You know, but all.

B

C

Really, you know as a developer. uh What I'm backing on is an appraisal because, what's going to happen, I think in this market we're in appraisals aren't going to keep up with cost and until you get over that hurdle, you might have a sale but not get it appraised. So it's just a we're in a real different situation. These days.

E

Just as a curiosity, what kind of inventory do they have in aitkin right now? Is it? Is it real low or is it kind of a downtown.

C

Lake and is low.

A

You mentioned something about the park and I've seen heard your comments about homeless people. They there ought to be somebody looking at a homeless, a shelter that's more than salvation. Normally what five.

B

A

Right, that's not yeah.

I

You know that'll get me going too.

A

That needs to happen. We.

C

Have one camper that's uh consistently on the back left corner of our site and we haven't tried to do it and.

I

There's portal that's right across from your lot and they just got put there, but the alter that's much better than the alternative we were facing because there was they had nowhere to go the bathroom.

I

So it was just everywhere.

C

So we have that porter john next to the uh caboose.

I

Yes, trust me: it is better through this winter. That is better than right, we'll.

C

A

Headlines could be in the paper. They would need to do a more upscale porta john over there.

C

We will request that it be moved to the end of the caboose.

A

Yeah, which is close to where people are yeah well, they had talked about having a bandstand in down on the far on the kershaw end facing back toward the railroad depot, and I think the there's a point where you probably would have a public restroom yeah.

E

There was you'd like it.

A

E

They talked about it one time, not a bandstand, but having kind of a working, uh an amphitheater type of thing. Now I.

I

Don't know well, my question is: is the union street plan real or is it not because if it's not take it off the website, because those of us that are down there investing in the area are planning on? That's the plan that that's what's gonna happen, and if it's not gonna happen, you need to know, I need to know. We all need to know. So if it's gonna stay, just a homeless, hang out- or you know, are we going to put a roundabout in? Are we going to take back cumberland road?

I

Are we going to do this or we're going.

F

B

We need to make those.

I

Decisions now in my world katie when.

A

We get through with our matrix, we'll we'll start on the I.

I

Do have a question, though: okay, because I've been talking to everybody in the city too, for a little project. I was really surprised by stormwater, though, have you talked to the stormwater people.

C

uh My engineer has, I'm sure, he's uh finalizing these.

I

Because I mentioned that they told me- I I don't know if they were just talking or what they were saying, but mine had a ton of green space and they said I needed to put rain barrels down in the ground, not hundred dollar rain barrels from home depot, but real rain barrels- and I don't know if stormwater maybe should be something if we're going to zero hotlines in a downtown business area in a stormwater innervate, there's a whole stormwater innovation plan in the parkways.

I

Not just these down here, but all over are.

A

You in for that.

I

I don't know what the deal is with storm water are.

A

You in the same, are you in downtown? Is he she in downtown business now? Yes,.

D

I

I mean you could take your.

F

In the downtown business district that they fall below standards for our full-blown storm water management, however, city engineering does still have to what we can't. Let somebody do is cause storm water damage on somebody else's property.

B

F

It essentially gets looked at my understanding from that point of view is that you just need advantage into the fact that it's not going to be spilling over and doing causing additional storm water to fall on somebody else's property. As a result of yourself.

A

And make sure there there are public storm water pipes and boxes nearby, and I think that's part of what the city will be working with you on that.

F

Is part of the difficulty too, is that we do those are scdot systems, some of them? Some of them are city systems, so it just kind of depends on the location, yeah.

C

Is that a dot right away.

F

That's eft right, so cumberland is d.o.t.

F

A

Okay, well we're getting to one hour uh six o'clock and unless somebody has other questions we'll let you all go and perhaps we'll see you at the meeting uh yeah.

C

I hope I think you will march.

A

E

Did you have any other questions for us.

C

No, I think, we've covered it pretty. Well, maybe a little too well well,.

A

Better now than later, yeah.

D

Thank you, yeah.

C

Reorienting the units was a really uh a nice nice.

H

D

H

Chairman, just for the record, the the consensus on additional documentation is that you're, looking for a site plan with dimensions, a more detailed site plan is that it in terms.

A

Of additional in a second.

D

A

Section, a construction drawing that shows the um the overhang the soffit. That type of thing right thing that you would typically get.

E

And the construction drawings show that that central front window going all the way to the porch, but then the you know this is not the same. The windows are different sizes on different sheets that you have.

B

C

E

Just want to know what size the windows are going to be yeah. Okay, I mean that that should be on the construction plan as part of the elevation at um you know, evaluation, and um you know when I look on there what's on this plan, is different than.

G

What I see on this planet.

A

Brian, what it looks like is, you have about a two to two foot: four sill height on those front windows, and I think that's all he's asking and now are the ceiling heights. Nine, nice good and then the head height of the windows will be more like eight.

C

I'm not a builder uh nor an architect, so we have a guy working on our plans to update everything, yeah and I'll get those in front of you as soon as we have them sure. Then. Maybe uh at the meeting uh we can finalize that.

A

Okay, yeah yeah, that's something you can change at the last minute. I suppose, but it does it. It does take full advantage of a nine-foot ceiling to go ahead and raise the wind head from the outside and also from the inside right.

C

We will I always thought that the windows should be consistent. All the way.

G

Yes, if you go to larger.

C

Windows on the front, then, in my mind you do it all the way around and then you get into some real money.

E

A

E

Heights will be the same all the way around, but.

A

You they still can go up and down. The width can go right.

E

D

Yeah, but I think I.

E

Think what you're talking about you you're, certainly going above to try to make symmetry look really nice through the whole process. Right.

A

So he'll he'll have something on wind, as I suspect mayor catherine you're, asking what what he'd be submitting uh he might have enough here on the I don't remember what we.

C

Submitted one talking about this morning, talking about.

E

C

E

I don't know if he has sizes did y'all talk about grids, the roof grids and the windows.

A

We've touched on it, we actually say in our guidelines that they ought to be attached to the exterior right, yeah yeah, okay, well good! Well, thank you brian for coming in.

B

On short notice,.

A

I think that will help the meeting actually uh keep.

D

A

True or smoothly, okay, um now we can close our meeting.

E

A

E

I think they're submitting.

A

E

I don't know, I guess they.

F

A

F

A

Yeah the application isn't in yet so. Okay.

D

Nobody brought.

A

Their matrix or yeah I'll go into them looking at them now, no.

H

All right right now, we didn't include that on the agenda. Okay,.

A

G

You can't do that on a work session. That's not a um that's, not something that um we need public comments. You know it's not. You still should.

F

Stick with the.

F

H

A

All right, I believe we made some progress today.

I

I