City of Aiken, SC Design Review Board Meetings, 1 Dec 2020

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From YouTube: Design Review Board Meeting December 1, 2020

Description

Design Review Board Meeting
December 1, 2020
6:30 PM

Call to Order
Minutes

Old Business
None

New Business
1) Application CERH21-017: Applicant Joseph L. Harrison requests approval to construct a house and detached garage with second floor living space at 234 Sumter St. SE ( TMP 121-10-26-013).
2) Application CERH21-022: Applicants Christopher and Ruth Lawler request approval for patio renovations to feature the construction of an exterior fireplace at 443 Laurens St. SW ( TMP 105-12-01-002).

Information

Adjournment

A

I think we'll go ahead and start start our meeting our official december 1st meeting. We welcome you all uh tonight to the first meeting in december and first tuesday in december and the last meeting of the year. um We have some minutes. You all had. Those in your packet uh would welcome a motion on the minutes on approving them or not.

B

I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes.

A

Second, okay, all in favor raise your right hand and the motion is proved for the minutes november 3rd review board and work session all right now. um I believe that now our secretary will be introducing the first applicant is that right, mayor, catherine? Yes, okay,.

C

Item of new business is application number c e cer821017 applicant joseph l, harrison requests approval to construct a house and detached garage with second floor living space at 234, sumter street southeast taxmap parcel.

C

C

I have provided you all with an additional exhibit a packet of papers that includes a site plan to illustrate the proposed garage footprint that that was the same site plan that some iteration of this board saw when they approved this concept, originally back in 2006 with changes in 2007, okay and then you also have before you some revised elevations and floor plans.

C

So the only changes made to again the house plans that were approved by the board back in in 2007 are that two of the three front windows, front, port or front porch doors have been there's a request to replace those with windows. So just have one front door instead of three.

A

And we'll see that up there right now that on the screen correct so so there, those are full glass windows, um as opposed to french doors. I guess.

C

Correct before and then the other change is would be nominally visible. If you could see it through the maxwell house now from college, and you I highly doubt you could see it from sumter, but um the rear, they've added a porch or like a sun room on that second story, you see the three windows and widened that bump out on the first floor, to accommodate a staircase for access to that space.

C

A

And and- and you all have that in the handout that was on the desk when you came in the new the new plan as well as these variations, um it's the front of it, the street view is, is very minimal change. No, so it's on the rear.

A

You also have the site plan here and now.

C

And just to give, I can give an overview quickly. All the.

C

Single family home 2496 square feet. Mr harrison brought this to you the last month or the month before to a work.

D

C

um The only this most significantly different item- I guess, is the garage you he he mentioned that he would be. He would like a garage on the property detached garage. He did not have plans, so you now have before you the plans um and he is working with a drafts in to make that are architecturally compatible with the main house. You do.

E

F

C

Have those those updated elevations before you, though,.

A

So maybe we should have him come forward and and give your name and an address and then we'll ask any questions that you all might have if you come forward. Joe is, if that's you back there uh just because for our recording, uh let us know that you're here and and where you currently.

F

Live hey folks,.

E

G

uh I don't have much to add to what's pretty much straightforward, but uh I did notice that this randall's drawings show on the front. Porch looks like round columns to me and if it makes any difference to y'all, I think I prefer square columns there.

G

I think it just looks better to me.

A

They do look yes in the plan they're shown as round.

G

They look round, don't they in this drawing.

A

Yeah, which one which one are you saying you prefer I'm.

G

A

You saying you prefer round, or I prefer to.

G

Have a square: that's.

A

That's right, that'll be something to to note, because the plan certainly shows round columns.

G

A

G

When I was here before, I asked, is it okay to have a garage apartment and they said yeah, I didn't have a plan for a garage apartment, so I just went online and picked one that I like the the layout of it shows architectural shingles and that's not going to be that way. It's going to be the same roof! That's on the main house.

E

G

Ellen said, she would make this look in the same style. uh Otherwise, I'm just here to answer y'all's questions.

A

G

We are appropriate: okay,.

A

Well, thank you yeah, and I knew you came to the meeting. I knew you came to me a couple months back and, and we said fine, this is one we've seen before and approved before actually yeah. um So now um let me just see, if other, what other folks would you all see his site plan where it shows a little bit larger garage so that you can get a stair? He needs 28 feet to get the stair up to the second floor.

A

uh The 10 foot setback remains um and he's got 60 feet, so um he probably has still you know about 16 feet of backing space there yeah do y'all, have questions of mr.

D

H

uh Mr chairman, I have one I'm looking at sheet four. I guess this is the garage and it's the um is rather a large window on the second floor. Is that correct.

A

Yeah now that let me interject, I believe you said you were coming back with some revised elevations of the garage- is that right he's got somebody working on it.

H

Okay, they don't have.

A

H

G

You talk about it in the front or on the back of.

H

That I'm talking about in the front.

G

A

G

Yes, that's about the correct window, yeah.

A

But it's appropriate since this we we we've used up our work session before, but we could have some comments that might help that's.

G

A

If you wanted to, if you all want to comment, feel free to do that, yeah.

H

It seems like the window is pretty big and maybe not consistent with the rest of the house.

A

Yes, ma'am the big round, one.

H

Yeah, the big sort of palladium.

A

Double window: okay, any.

H

Other comments.

A

um And we can decide uh you know as far as the logistics here of whether we would how you'd want to phrase your your motion, if, if we wanted to leave the door open for a garage or garage apartment but with with uh maybe at the the next meeting, would continue the garage meeting or you could authorize I'm not promoting that, but the administrative review in this case it may be that the whole board ought to see the garage.

A

Since it's a probably a more dramatic change. I would say that off the bat, probably that long, that long roof is functional because there's a stair under it, but it that we see right there. On that note, if we go there, you go that maybe doesn't quite fit the the style of the more traditional uh house in front.

A

It's a little more contemporary to me. So that would be something that perhaps your draftsman could could address, and I think I think she was going to do that. Yeah.

G

Maybe move the gable thought he can. She can.

A

Move the bridge over.

A

And now we just for everybody's- uh I guess information here. This will be. This will be the side view as you come to the back of the lot you'll turn and go into that garage. Is that right? That's correct! Okay, I think also.

A

Let me say that that that sort of uh offset of gave a gable with an offset gable is a more contemporary idea that you see a lot, but it it it. I don't think it's happening much on the front house, and wouldn't it wouldn't be a you see it's not it's a little. I typical for traditional and I don't know, I suppose it helps a little bit in the layout.

A

That's the sort of clue that this is more contemporary design.

F

A

Like that looks like the living room bumps out like one foot, okay or or a foot.

I

A

To to generate that thing that may not fit with the rest of the house, it's not really critical to the plan. It doesn't look like to me all right. Do you all have any opinion about that about the offset gable?

A

All these things sort of work together, to give it a little bit of a contemporary look that maybe doesn't doesn't quite fit the neighborhood.

A

I don't I don't know, we've got necessarily an objection to having a garage apartment.

A

The house in the front has.

H

Yeah, it seems that a lot of the detail on the garage are, as I think you said, a little bit more ornate and fancy than the house like the keys.

A

And yeah yeah, yeah and- and we weren't sure, just in joe just in looking at that plan that I know you ordered the the real purpose of that second floor deck unless you're, unless you have a smoker that wants to go out and smoke on the deck, but it it's. It might be something that's a not all that functional to me.

A

um I suppose it gives them they're living upstairs. It gives them an outdoor. You know, porch patio.

G

Yeah, I kind of had a gas grill in mine for the back.

A

G

A

A

Any other comments and then we'll see if others have any uh thing they want to say.

A

I believe we saw the house, the house is fine and we'll just have to decide how to make the motion to get the house approved, perhaps with a coming back with some garage elevations, then, by the time.

H

Would that be acceptable.

F

Sure well, they're.

H

G

D

F

They're going to start the construction, I'm sorry.

G

John, do it simultaneously. That was my plan.

G

We uh we will pour if the footprint is acceptable on the garage right helen has not worked out the uh cosmetics, if you will matter of fact, I'm looking at it, and I see something I'd like to to change. The windows have a palladium top and I don't have anything like that on the main house, so they will be, I would say, large windows, but.

A

D

G

That wagon wheel, over the top of it, the and I like the square posts on the front porch a lot better than I do the round posts on the house. So the house will get square post and the garage apartment will get square windows.

A

G

I do I understand what you're, where you're coming from on the on the long. I don't see any reason why we can't uh move the apex of the top.

D

G

A little bit, and that will give it a less.

D

G

Kind of look and make it look a little more traditional, it's going.

B

To be a metal roof anyway,.

G

Yeah, maybe we can handle that from an administrative standpoint.

H

Plan with me, yeah.

A

Well, whoever makes a motion y'all can.

H

Yeah you're fine with me that you uh that'd be: did you do that yeah.

A

H

A

F

H

They just need to be a little more consistent.

F

H

Said that the garage and the house need to be a little more consistent. You know.

G

Like yeah, I agree, I want them to look.

D

H

Much alive yeah because because just the details on the garage are different than the details on the house,.

B

And the closer you are, the property value is going to be better.

A

Good, okay, any other comment: no okay! Thank you and we'll see if others would like to speak.

G

A

Yeah appreciate it joe harrison is our applicant.

F

Thank you for your service.

A

Yeah, who would like to uh speak either in favor or in opposition? If so, if you will come to this lectern and give give your name and address.

A

J

If you can hear me, let me know.

A

J

Are the property owners behind this lot, and my only concern is that if joe and I understand joe's planning to move the garage, he wants to move the property. Five foot, the garage five foot back from the property line.

A

No, no, I believe that I believe it's ten feet as well.

C

In accordance with for the everyone's benefit, um mr harrison applied for an administrative waiver for setback reduction, rear setback, reduction for the detached garage um that was denied and he is not pursuing a setback reduction at.

J

This time, so it will.

C

Comply with the 10 feet, setback.

J

Required, okay: that was my concern and because we do have trees separating the two properties, but if anything happens to those trees and you've got a garage, I mean got deck right on the back, it's going to really overlook our property. That was my concern.

A

Now and you're, but you're in the rear, we're in the rear. I think his deck is actually closer to his to the two-story house. It's up toward the front corner. If I'm reading the plan right. Oh.

J

Really yeah it'll look into.

A

A

A

Hang on a minute: let's, let's, let's do this one at a time, did we get your name, I'm.

J

Gayle mclean.

A

Bill, I thought so.

J

That's my only concern.

A

J

Mean it could, it could be a real infringement on privacy.

J

A

I guess, okay, that deck is, uh is on the front left of this garage. Okay, so it's a little short deck. It's uh looks like it could be about eight.

J

So it's gonna be on the side and not the back.

A

Yes, on the side and it's on the side up toward the house.

J

A

In fact, it's right behind you see where the entrance door is to this right here, yep uh that now. That's that that we're looking at the side of this see that that that uh that patio up upper deck is just to the rear. You can almost see it in that in that image.

I

Facing this property, the garage doors will be here with the driveway here to access.

J

I see that was my main concern.

K

I

J

You know with it being so high that that could, if we didn't, have those trees for some reason, that could be a real infringement on privacy.

K

J

Okay and we're so we're keeping the uh boundary line where it should be.

A

That's right: it's it's still 10 feet; okay, all right! Okay! Thank you.

A

Just give your name and address please hello:.

L

My name is kathy james. Can you hear me yes.

A

L

Address is 2-2-1 ori, I'm also on the back side and that same porch that ms mclean was referencing, has a privacy view into my backyard. So, even though it's sideways from the street, it will see directly into her yard and directly into my yard, because of its second story, elevation and they've, taken the trees out and.

M

L

One of the concerns I've come to speak about tonight is that, because that deck is on the side of his property, it doesn't have any access to his yard, but it overlooks my yard completely obliterating my privacy and if they put that porch light on that's shown on the driveway. That shines into my yard, as well as miss mclean's yard, and I would just ask since it's such a tiny little deck.

L

If it's for the use of tenants, perhaps a patio to the side of the apartment or put move the deck to the side of the apartment, and then it would be in their own yard and it wouldn't invade the privacy of three of budding properties. I think that might be a useful suggestion. Okay,.

A

So, where it would potentially could be around on the opposite side of the.

L

It stairs sideways into her property.

A

Yeah, that's. This is the advantage that the fact that he hasn't done the final drawings, but if you can go paula, can you can you go back to the two floor plans that uh keep going the next one? Next there you go there. We go.

L

Say they turn the light on here or smoke a cigarette. The light shines directly into this mclean's property.

A

And it shines directly in the middle well now. Well now, aren't y'all aren't y'all to the right, I'm right here where it says kitchen elevations, that's my backyard! You're 10 feet! We go 10! Now what we do just to orient everybody that that bedroom there bedroom on the upper right. We go 10 feet over to the rear property line, and then that's where gail mclean's property is- and yours is up there. Okay,.

L

Yeah, this is our property. This is miss mclean's, so.

E

L

Here with the deck here, I've gone and very carefully looked, and if I'm standing on that depth of that elevation, I'm looking here.

H

It's quite intrusive.

L

On our properties, if instead they move the deck to the side, then it wouldn't invade all the neighboring properties or maybe, if they make it a ground floor porch for like barbecuing, then that you know it would become part of their yard instead of part of.

L

Okay, so small, I understand it's not very useful, but it sure sure is invasive of the abutting neighbors privacy.

A

L

So I'd like to just back up one step and say about the the main structure, the main building, I think they've done a very nice job, making it look real pretty. I don't know if you suggested simulated, divided lights on the windows instead of glass between grille, because this plan says glass between grill, which I think might be more appropriately suggested simulated, divided light for a house of that.

D

A

L

Especially considering you've got real shutters, you know, real windows would be better to my view and because the garage is visible from the street, um I share the same concerns that you voiced early on, which is that you all observed it's not in the same character as the house.

L

Now I've just come to understand that this isn't the final design they're trying to make it look more like the house, so I would appreciate that this not be handled administratively that instead, you know neighbors in the butters, be allowed to come and comment when the final design is available. I think that palladian window is completely out of character, the keystones etc. This the scale is very contemporary and the house is very traditional.

L

D

L

Is one of my largest for a budding privacy and it would seem to me I'm not an architect but to move it to the other side of the house or eliminate it entirely, would eliminate the issue of privacy for three abutting neighbors and if they move it into their own yard, then they'll have a view of of their own gardens.

L

um I would appreciate that, but the the scale of the um the dormer and the way it bumps out are just completely different character from the house and the the neighborhood and then that one, the oversized window, especially with the palladian top is, is, is not in keeping.

A

Right, I believe he he he's in agreement with that and has given some instruction to the draft to the designer again.

L

That the window is also oversized and that I believe the the dividers are currently specified as grill between glass and it would be a more appropriate simulated, divided light. So thank you very much.

A

L

A

An open comment: okay, any other comment.

A

Yeah just give us your name.

E

Please hi, my name is bob stenkavage. I also am a property owner at 221 owery street, and uh it sounds like I'm kind of reiterating what's been said already, when we first saw the the plan for the contemporary styling, it was evocative of the 1980s and what I can only describe as reagan-esque, and we were kind of concerned that it was inappropriate for the neighborhood objectively.

E

I'd like to say the the main structure is, is very fitting and and will will really look good, downtown aiken, I'm very happy with the design overall, um our biggest concern with the privacy, of course other than what kathy just uh mentioned is we've had bad experiences in the past, with so-called adus that turn into airbnb or homeaway and suddenly on a weekend, it's more like senior frog in cozumel than it is downtown historic, aitkin.

D

I

E

The uh unfortunate uh recipients of noise pollution and light pollution, and just after hours, carousing in a in a neighborhood that is, is not it's just not appropriate. We've gone through great months to ensure our privacy as much as you can in downtown aitkin we've committed to building a a home that we feel is in keeping with the appropriateness of the neighborhood, and you can understand our concern that um you know this. This property will infringe on that. So we would just ask that that again.

D

E

Not be handled administratively that that we do have an opportunity to uh to participate constructively in in the eventual uh appropriate design that I'm sure you you will all approve and and uh okay.

A

E

Pretty much all I have to say thank.

A

You thank you for your comments, any other comments.

A

Now, what we'll do, though, I think we could ask the applicant to come forward and and maybe respond some of these things you've already addressed with us joe, but I think it would.

A

um It would probably benefit the process. The whole process, if you were able to address, uh for instance, the deck the the idea of relocating it did you understand what they were requesting? I do we're putting this on we're likely going to put the garage on hold we'll see what the motion says.

G

If that's the way you want to proceed, I'm not.

A

G

To fuss about it, yeah because helen hadn't drawn this out, like I said, I saw some things. I'd like.

A

G

But um moving the little balcony for the grill.

D

G

So it kind of faces the back of my house.

G

You can't get to it across the stairwell it just that won't work, but we certainly will make the the appearance of the house look very much. I mean the garage look very much like the house.

A

Well, the only way to really do it joe, would be it's such a miniscule.

A

Little deck, um you know what would be to wrap it. You know let you still go out there, but you you. You, give yourself a little more of a of a second floor deck uh between between the well on this side, we're seeing there, but you use this. In other words, if you use that, as is, is just simply an access, then people aren't going to hang out right there at the door they're going to walk around to the deck part.

A

So I think you could almost combine the two ideas to be an l-shape, just something for for you and do we.

G

Understand we can, I don't yeah yeah.

A

Because because it's almost too small to to be of any use- and I think it's.

G

More like it's a large deck where a bunch of people are going to conjugate.

A

G

And uh concern about airbnb people being loud or obnoxious or whatever is just totally unfounded, and I don't I've never experienced that.

A

M

Are you thinking you're going to start construction? I mean like, what's the it's time of the essence here.

G

Always time is of the essence, we're.

E

G

Interest on money, but.

M

But it's not going to start before next month. I plan to, but I don't have to but, like you said, the footprint well.

A

It's possible: you could get this in next meeting. Yeah.

G

A

Right correct: yes, the garage could come back next meeting.

B

Can I ask what question.

A

B

Is there any benefit to us approving part of it and leaving the other part off if you're going to have simultaneously.

G

Did something about the footprint while ago john yeah? Probably the first thing I'm going to do is pour the concrete right all right. uh We got a holiday, it's christmas, then you got new years. How much framing I'm gonna get done between now and your next meeting is debatable. I'm not! I don't know because.

I

Weather is also.

G

A factor in december yeah, but um the garage is where like today, is a totally different project, but I bought flooring. I don't need till february, but I had the black friday sale. So I went ahead and bought a house full of flooring and I got stick it somewhere.

G

Having that garage at least the bottom part of it dry is high on my priority list, because it will come in real handy, especially when they're delivering uh interior trim, wood doors and all that kind of stuff. It's got to be where it can't get knocked over and it can't get broke, not my first rodeo when it comes to building so.

D

I

F

G

Gap between house and garage because the garage is just he's sitting.

A

Now that that sounds like uh you, you'd almost prefer us to vote on the whole thing together. That would be at the time yeah. The voting on the house doesn't really get you started if you want to build a garage first. So that's an another option. Is the vote to continue it till next month and bring the whole thing back.

G

No, I can get some things done on the house and I can get the if I just don't do anything but pour the slab on the garage and not frame it until january.

A

Because I'm not sure I can.

G

Get it framed before january, but if the 20 oh, what is it 24 by 28 or 26 by 28? If that slab is acceptable, then the design of the structure.

A

Can certainly wait.

G

A

We could make whoever makes the motion could include that that the stipulate that the 26 by 28, whatever, if y'all, want to.

G

Do that the original one, I think was 24 by 26 or 24 by 24.

A

G

Two foot wider and two foot.

A

Deeper right now, let's see oh the other one, the other thing big, pretty big thing on the house: uh the fact that you've got uh rather than.

A

Simulated divided light, you have, you have grills that are in you know that are in between the two panes of glass.

G

Yeah familiar with that.

A

Yeah, can you do simulated divided light you, you may get a motion to.

G

Do the windows we're shopping for.

A

Okay, simulate about like, I think that would be better it you you, the whole house is gonna. Look when you ride by it's gonna, diminish the the value of the house. When you see you know, grids behind glass and temporary looking.

G

And they're they're real pain and all when you take them down to paint them and put them back up.

A

G

To snap off, I really like the the pain inside the glass.

A

Well, that's not what we're saying.

C

When they say simulated divided light, they mean exterior muttons.

C

They're saying, can you do what you didn't want to do the the exterior.

A

G

Divided light, the pain be on the outside.

A

Simulated divided light is, is one big piece of glass like you want, but it's got a grid, a permanent grid glued on the outside and a permanent grid glued on the outs on the inside. So the glass goes through. You don't have to do individuals, that's why it's simulated, but it actually has a real grid on the face of the window.

G

The inside and on that yes yeah, the are quality.

A

Most most most when the companies do that it's just standard yeah.

G

Like them inside the glass you can, you can wash your window and you don't have to. Oh it's just much better.

A

Well, we'll, let's see see what you're I'll conform.

G

To whatever the report says, I need to conform with.

A

Yeah but we'll differ most of the time we do. uh Certainly, if somebody's replacing windows damaged windows in the historic district, we would require they be simulated, divided light and even on new homes. I think most times, they've been simulated by the light.

A

So so that's that is a sort of the the standard in.

D

A

District, you know with with nice houses, okay.

I

That was a those.

A

Any other comments then, with before we have a motion, uh thank you for coming in and uh for answering questions and we'll see what we can get approved here.

A

Your emotion from someone.

H

uh Mr chairman, I move that with respect to certificate application, number h.

H

H

That the application be approved is submitted, provided, however, that the columns on the house will be square and not round, as shown on the plans that the windows will be simulated, divided light um and that the applicant will bring back um yeah. And, however, this application does not extend to the design of the garage. Only the footprint of the garage.

F

Correct second,.

H

A

Okay, any other discussion; okay, all in favor of the uh or what other thing.

B

The the approval for the garages we're gonna, have this computer.

A

She's in full, yes, yes, she's on the motion is for the house only and then the footprint of the garage, yeah. Okay, all in favor of this motion is made, raise your right hand. Okay, thank you. That's you know. That's good! Thank.

M

You mary katherine, can I ask you an aside about columns? They are not on here. I don't know if they need to be or not.

C

I just have them.

C

According to our matrix as it stands, garages on non-contributing properties, which we would count this as are due for administrative approval, so.

C

If if that has been denied now right, he would come back and then, mr chairman, you can always defer to the full board, but but it is eligible for administrative approval as the matrix currently stands. Okay,.

A

Yeah, I I think the consensus is that the whole board would like to see it. Okay, yeah.

A

Okay, we got another all.

C

Materials were okay, he had vinyl, so vinyl is okay. As long as it's sdl.

D

C

A

Yeah, I think that the yeah the application uh she's as it submitted it says you know you talking about on the go on the garage. What are you talking about.

B

She's talking about everything.

A

Yeah, I want you about vinyl windows.

A

um I think the main, the the I'm not sure what what uh sort of wonder he'll end up with, but the main important thing with simulated divided light right yeah. Thank you! Yeah yeah! You scared me a minute you when you said vinyl, it says hardy society yeah. Okay, now we'll go to the next one. Then if you don't mind.

C

Number cerh21022 applicants christopher and ruth lawler request approval for patio renovations to feature the construction of an exterior, fireplace at 443 lauren street southwest tax map, parcel 105 12.

A

Okay, thank you and we'll ask our applicant to come forward and give his his name and address please for the record, and if you, if you move that microphone down a little bit, I think it's cutting off because it because it's not picking up your voice. I don't okay.

C

Continuously yeah, it's one of those microphones.

A

That doesn't pick up unless you're speaking, yeah. Okay, you probably know more about microphones than we do, but go.

K

A

K

My name is chris lawler and I my wife and I own 443 lawrence street southwest okay.

A

Good and now is anything you needed to add. It looks like it's fairly self-explanatory and I believe you, I believe, you've been to a work session with this.

K

I have not no, maybe.

A

C

On your behalf, at the last work session.

A

Yeah, that's right just to explain some of it. Yeah.

K

Just a quick overview is that, uh with some of the changes that we did with the house on the east side of the house, the side that you're looking at right here that faces towards lawrence street, um we have a new kitchen and uh family room, slash tv room uh in that side of the house and there's an l that you can't see behind the uh in.

K

This photo right here, where we added new patio doors in the l that look out onto this area that we're planning to make proposing to make into a patio area.

A

K

Step over here, this is actually the kitchen right here. This is like a family room right.

D

Here you know probably the biggest changes that they made.

K

Patio doors here goes here, this area.

A

Outdoor living area, yeah and and our paula is freaking out over here. When you walk away from her microphone, that's okay! It everybody does it, but I think you're just explaining that the usefulness of having a patio there outside your nice new family room, um we've got nice good pictures here of your doors.

A

I think going from the kitchen and also from the family room, is that right.

K

Yes, yeah. Those pictures are a little dated, that's when they were doing some of the construction work, but.

A

The next one, let's see no.

A

Anyway, I've got one in my I've.

D

C

Here's the middle yes.

A

Like this, that shows the two rooms that open the glass doors.

D

K

Kind of a uh a garden patio area with a pea, stone, gravel.

A

K

All enclosed either by the house, a brick wall or that tall fence that you see from lawrence street.

K

Put a hard surface on a blue stone patio when I say blue stone, it's mostly gray, stone gray with a little bit of brownish colors. These.

B

K

Of these samples off the vendor's website that show.

D

K

Color, it's a little bit hard to see. They look like two completely different colors in these photos. It looks more like the left photo here. It's more of a gray.

A

K

A

Yeah yeah and it won't have a pool in the middle.

K

It won't have a pool.

K

uh To with our.

M

K

Recent weather we'd like to uh have an outdoor fireplace uh as part of the uh yeah. That's part of the area and.

A

K

uh What we have in mind for.

D

K

And the plan is that the fireplace would uh be made of a brick uh similar uh identical to what the house brick is and then white wash to match the house as well, so that it echoes the house.

B

Right is that the flat brick or is it.

K

Brush rig, is it I'm sorry, I didn't understand.

B

A lot of the houses and they can have brush brick. You know, like you, know what I'm talking about.

A

What sort of bricks crushed.

B

E

Yeah, it's a smooth.

K

A

K

D

H

So um mr lawler is, is any part of the fireplace visible from the from the street.

E

H

E

K

Here, but if you walked into the service driveway shown in this photograph right here a little bit, you would see that see that see that those vines back there behind you know near the house.

K

That's those vines are growing on the fence that surrounds the proposed patio area, and so sticking up above those vines that fence line would be the uh just the top of the the chimney.

A

From the fireplace.

K

A

K

Eight feet tall: it's a it's about eight and a half feet tall with the vines on it, so about two or three feet: yeah about three feet above that you would see the uh the fire placement sticking out and actually there's a little photoshopped photo in the packet. That shows that my daughter is a photoshop wizard, so she added the chimney into the into the picture.

K

If you see the uh the photo, that said, it shows the service driveway a little closer in and you can see the fence there with all the vine growing on it.

A

K

Oh, I see it there, it is taking it up through the you see where it says new chimney.

A

Yes, that just gives.

K

You a sense we tried to make it scale accurate and height, accurate for what you would see from the service driveway.

A

K

But you know really the reason you don't really see that from lawrence street, unless you go into the service driveway. A little bit is because of the garage is right right there on lawrence street blocking.

A

K

A

And the retaining wall too.

K

And there's a retaining wall there as well. Yes, yeah.

A

Okay and there's the uh I guess that would have been an old greenhouse slab. Yes,.

K

The slab that you see there to the right of the fencing was an old greenhouse.

A

Now you have a door now.

K

Yes again, I apologize this. This photograph is slightly dated because I wasn't here when I generated this package, so I couldn't walk outside and take a photo but yeah the uh that window that you see on the first floor, there is now a door.

D

K

Mary, I think mary, katherine, has a yeah. An updated photo. That's by the way is not quite completed. There's some trim on that door that has to be painted white still.

E

K

You can get a feel for what it looks like now: okay,.

A

K

Thank you, and as part of the original fencing proposal that we did last year with you folks.

I

I think that I think it was.

K

Included that we would put a fence that matches the existing fence in front of that door so that it doesn't, I mean, there's basically an electrical panel. There there's a cable attachment, it's not the most attractive view of the house, and since you can see it from lawrence street, we felt it would be most appropriate just to bring that that wooden fence across in front of that.

A

K

And have it look consistent with the.

A

Yeah with the fencing.

K

A

That's a that's going to be a major improvement.

K

We've actually changed a fair amount. There there used to be a telephone pole there with an aerial overhead electrical service for the house that we pulled out of there. So it's believe it or not. It looks better and there used to be a big conduit going up the side of the house. I know for some internal uh power inside the house which service.

A

Drive but it's the first drive you come to yeah, so.

K

We've improved a little bit, but I think it still would benefit by having a fast there.

A

Yeah now is the fence: yeah I'll have to go back to the front page. Was it part of it too, or do we just right? We can read that into the motion.

C

I I'll verify that it was included in the previous certificate.

K

And 99 sure I think it was because we had planned it.

A

Well, we've talked about it. Yeah we've talked about screening today,.

K

But it might not be yeah.

A

We could we could mention that that that'll cover up the uh electrical meter there yeah okay,.

C

Mcdonald, if it was not included in the previous certificate, then I'll add language in the okay certificate. For this okay.

B

That's part of your emotion right: how long have you been living in the house? I would say.

D

When did you acquire.

K

The house we bought the house in 2016.- okay, so we've been there for four years now.

B

You obviously like it there, then we love it there. It's a beautiful spot. I used to park in that driveway when I went when the banksia used to be the university. Oh really you come to class late and you'd be marked absent and there was no parking.

D

B

K

B

K

The good years were: okay with you parking, but.

B

They weren't there usually a lot yeah. That's in the summer.

A

Okay, well, thank you, yeah, um any other questions. No, no! It's making great progress over there. Now, I'm gonna! I see that no one here is uh wants to speak both against or for the project, but we'll go ahead and let you have a seat and then our folks will make a motion. Hopefully.

H

Chairman uh with respect for certificate, application, number h, 21-0 22, I move that we approve the application as submitted um and include the um fence described by mr lawler.

A

Right, that's good, okay, any other discussion; okay, all in favor of the application, with the slight amendment raise your right hand, okay, good it's approved, and I appreciate your bringing it to us and sticking with your project over.

C

Presented at the work session, the college and avenue house, a part of that proposal was also vinyl windows with grid between glass. Would you say the same council applies.

A

C

He said that his neighbors had vinyl windows and he.

A

His neighbors on collison, yes,.

H

Yeah they do and it looks hideous.

C

And um he had that presence.

H

By there today and yeah, it's like how did that ever happen.

A

We approve it that way. I guess it will slip through yeah yeah. Thanks for that yeah comment.

C

So vinyl, okay.

A

C

Does sdl or vinyl not okay, regardless of the sdl.

A

Is really the most important thing and then the next thing I I'm not sure what sort of windows are available. um All.

C

Right well I'll, go ahead and let.

A

Him in violin there's also.

C

There's composite and would clad with vinyl or aluminum.

B

Well, he indicated that he'd be willing to work with us on whatever we decided on with us.

A

The fella for that particular question allen.

F

A

A

Well, we need to get word to him, then, if he's submitting something.

C

A

Yeah, I think, simulator divided light. uh You know the andersons are composite. I think they're, not they're, not wood and probably never have been.

C

Some of them are fully fully composite. Some are wood. Clad depends on the series, anderson, anderson, okay,.

A

And then there's pvc windows.

C

Yes, okay, there's also fiberglass and.

A

Fiberglass, that's right, but I think the the a lot of times the you know having requiring simulated divided light actually bump. uh I guess you say bumps up the the quality of the window so that it it won't be a cheap vinyl window. I doubt I don't think he I don't know we'll see, but usually it'll be a better window.

A

Good. Okay! I guess we will have a motion adjourned.