City of Athens, Ohio Athens Board of Zoning Appeals 2020, 8 Dec 2020

Previous Meeting

Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Athens Board of Zoning Appeals - December 8, 2020

Description

Athens Board of Zoning Appeals - December 8, 2020

A

Pm and the date is tuesday december 8 2020. At this time I will call the meeting to order.

A

The board consists of five members and two alternates, the alternates taking full part in the discussions and becoming a voting member in the absence of a member or when a member abstains for conflict of interest a president tonight, our members miss lisa carson, mr john goodkins, is he here? No okay, uh mr joe cross and miss kate, housely and alternates are mr aaron thomas, and what about mr robert de lac is he here.

A

Okay, mr thomas guess: what you're going to be the alternate uh member who will be actually voting tonight, yay and if they come, then you're still going to be the voting member yay, hey you're online, so I am john goelsey. The chair also present are the zoning administrator. Mr david riggs and secretary is our secretary here.

A

No, mr rex is our is scary. Here I don't see her. I don't believe she is.

B

I was gonna contact. Her she's uh was out today. Okay,.

A

Okay, however, we do have the government uh channel team, mr scott thompson and mr ryan schwartzoff.

A

The board operates according to the following procedure. The chair will name this and describe the case. The zoning administrator or secretary will stated basis of the objection and any applicable facts or conditions pertaining to the case. The appellant or their representative will give reason why the appeal should be viewed favorably.

A

Anyone wishing to speak in favor of the request will be heard. Anyone wishing to speak in general or opposition will be heard if necessary. The appellant or the representative will offer concluding summary or rebuttal remarks.

A

Testimony from the floor shall be closed. The board will deliberate and render a decision.

A

According to athens city code, section 230703 b, the board has power to grant variances from the strict application of the code, provided the variance will not be contrary to the public interest. The spirit of the code is observed, public safety and welfare are secured and substantial justice is done.

A

According to athens city code, section 230710 very variances from the code shall not be granted unless the board makes specific findings of fact, based directly on the particular evidence presented to it that the standards and conditions imposed in this title, if applicable, have been met by the applicant and those are exceptional circumstances, a practical difficulty and undue hardship, preservation of equal property rights, minimum variance, absence of detriment and not being a general nature, and we discuss those in more details and when we get to that point, any person, resident or officer department or appointed body of the city of athens, aggrieved by a decision of the board, may petition the athens county court of common pleas concerning the illegality of the decision.

A

Such petition must be filed within 30 days after the mailing of the decision of the board to the applicant there's only one case tonight and that's the property at 41 brown avenue.

A

I assume the appellant is here, although I don't see on the list yet anyway, the board is required to take testimony under oath with anyone wishing to speak concerning any item on the agenda.

A

Please unmute your your microphone and state either yes or no. Whether you swear or affirm that any testimony you will present to the board will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth- and we assume anyone who will be testifying tonight- is under oath.

C

Cam, that's you.

A

Yes or no, yes,.

C

Cam, mr emerson, at property manager, you got to say yes to that: hello, sir or.

A

You could say: no, if you don't want it.

C

No, I I see him, I don't know if he can hear us. Can you hear us cam? Am I the only one that sees him.

A

D

I'ma, send him a message in the chat yeah. No, no.

E

John, you do have somebody uh from the community who has raised their hand, actually a couple people, I'm not sure what this in regards to whether it's this case or not,.

A

Well, we'll wait till.

C

Oh, it says they don't have an somebody says we do not have a feature to unmute in the chat in the chat.

E

Is what that that's for the attendees? That's correct! Oh so,.

C

How how does cam you have to mute them? I think.

E

John does or something the uh cam is a participant he's. um He should have access to unmute.

D

I sent cam a message cam. Can you hear us damn.

C

Can you hear us.

D

C

Yeah, we see you hey dude, you.

F

You with the beard yep, wait.

D

I think he's he's he's getting there. Hey yeah.

C

Yeah there you go, can you can he? Can he hear us? I can now good evening.

G

Oh there we go.

A

Okay, sir, do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth?

A

Yes, no! Yes, yes,.

G

A

You will be under oath tonight and, if others who want to speak- uh and uh I can't see anyone else right now in my screen, but anybody else I will ask when the time comes. Please remind me of that.

H

There's at least two other people that have commented in the chat uh joan kranansky she's, a former board member okay. Yes, I believe and rose no, not rose.

C

Marcela kathy kathy corsella as well said some says something so there's two that have.

E

Said they would like to speak specifically yeah and the other person has their hand up. So everybody in attendance would like to speak at this point again.

A

We are under the assumption that whoever is testifying, except for the board members and the code officers, uh you would be on their own. Okay, let's go to our case. uh We only have one case, and that is case number.

A

20-15 v, the property is 41 brown avenue zone is r1.

A

Appellant is requesting a variance from acc 2304 01 to allow for two units to include an apartment over the garage and increase occupancy to a tree in each unit on the property that is located in r1 zone and to allow four parking spaces where a total of six parking spaces are.

A

Required, um okay, I just got another call, so I'm going to find where I was six because and also from acc 23 1001 table b, requesting a variance from acc 230310 to allow two primary structures where one is allowed and with that anyone who has any questions for the code office. Please go ahead until I find where I am.

A

I have some questions for the code office too.

B

So I could go ahead here, uh mr chair, if that's okay, the current the current site uh at 40, uh uh uh 41 brown is uh two units with maximum two occupants each for a total of four, and that would require four parking spaces which they have they've requested an additional unit in over the garage which would also be a two maximum occupancy. So they would actually need six parking spaces total to meet the code. The other problem that we've run into is that we only have one on the r1.

B

We only allow one residential structure on the lot and this one. This would have two residential structures on this lot.

A

Okay, thank you. I did not hear a part of your what you just said, but let me ask you my questions. uh They're talking about two units. What are the two units.

B

So yeah, I'm sorry, my my uh my internet might be a little wonky tonight. um They currently have uh one structure on the on the property that has two units for a total of four um people in those units of four parking spaces, they're they're, proposing to add an additional bedroom over the garage which is detached from the rest of the structure and um that's not permitted by our code, and they would also require two additional parking spaces. For that. I don't know if you can hear that okay, yeah.

A

Yeah yeah perfect and then do they have an existing rental permit right now. Is it being rented okay and is there yes? Is there the unit over the garage.

B

That's the one with the two.

A

Okay, and is there a unit or the garage is completed? Is it ready to go or is it they need to construct it.

B

Are you asking me, um I don't know they submitted a perk, they submitted a permit and we reviewed the permit and refused it.

A

Okay, so there is no structure over the garage, then there is no unit in there right.

B

You could ask the appellant, he would know. Okay.

A

Any questions for mr riggs.

H

Yeah just clarification david, mr riggs, could you walk us through the parking requirement and how that how that works? It's is it two spaces for the first bedroom and one for traditional or what? What is the equation for that.

B

Yeah, for uh this is table b off street parking requirements as part of our codified ordinances, two for each dwelling unit, plus one for each additional renter.

B

So the minimum you could have is two, but you have to have one space for each renter. That's for owner occupied single family.

B

For uh rental for rental units.

B

B

It's the same, so you'd have to have one for each occupa permitted occupant, with a minimum of two. So if you had four occupants, you'd have to have four parking spaces. um If you had six occupants, you'd have to.

D

H

B

Parking spaces.

H

And then so for clarification is the addition in the garage one bedroom is that right, so one bed.

B

Two, there will be two occupants in that in that additional room that they have they're requesting two occupants there so for they'd have a total of six and they would require six parking spaces. In that case, okay,.

A

Any other questions.

A

C

I'm sorry, john, but just for my confusion, cam did you say that the structure was or was not already there on top of the garage.

A

He hasn't talked yet yet we haven't asked him to come forward yet: okay, okay! uh So now, mr cameron, uh cameron tope, is that do I pronounce it correctly? Yes, sir, are you in las vegas or are you in somewhere nearby? No, I'm I'm in athens.

G

Right now, oh okay,.

A

Okay, yes, sir, but the company emerson, property management is based in las vegas right.

G

No, we just do do that for the filing for the registered agent. It's a liability thing. We just we put that in in vegas.

A

Okay, police, officially state your name and your address for the records and then state your case and then joe had a question that I also had the same question. So we can maybe discuss that too. Yes, sir,.

G

My name is cameron tope. um The the best address would be 7444 lee master road in athens, ohio, four, five, seven zero one. uh What else did I need to state was that yeah.

A

Just your case.

G

Oh uh and then I'm requesting it extra occupancy for a garage, uh it is currently just a garage. um There is no. We have not begun any work or done any sort of work on that we made the request to mr riggs.

A

Okay, great because I thought I saw somewhere that says it's completed, but um that was incorrect.

G

Yes, sir, it's just storage right now. Yes, sir.

A

Okay, um I like to ask the board members to ask you their questions. If they have any questions and then I have a couple board members.

I

um I just have a question really, which is based on john kranansky's chat question. Can we look at that? Could.

A

You please read that so, because.

I

I can't, according to the athens rental units listing 41 brown, has a permit for one unit, not two and approved for two occupants and she's questioning that.

E

John, when you're ready to take uh testimony or questions or comments from the attendees, just let me know: okay.

I

Well, but I would ask that myself, because she's piqued my interest in that.

G

That is my understanding.

C

Your understanding is that you have four occupants where you're only allowed to have two currently.

G

No, sir, that we have one permit for two occupants.

C

So so so I'm confused. I thought mr rigg said that the main structure there were two units.

G

No sir, it's it's one uh single family, two bed, um we have an occupancy for two and then we have a garage apart, well garage that we would like to convert over for an additional occupancy. It's only one unit. It's not a duplex yeah he's correct.

B

I was incorrect in that it's it's. There are four parking spaces, but there's only one unit there so that that was my mistake. Maximum occupancy for this current rental permit is to.

C

So so, from what I'm seeing, sir, so that I understand you want to increase the occupancy of each unit to three and that and and the second and add a second one which would be above the structure, so each unit would be three occupants now is. Is that correct.

G

No sir, the main unit, we could just leave that alone and then either add one or two occupants depending upon what what the board sees fit for the garage garage for the garage structure, nothing with the existing unit, just a garage structure, it's a 25 by 25 building. It could support two. But I wanted that's why we just came in to ask for those two additional permits or two additional occupants for that one. One structure.

J

That's not what the uh that's, not what the application says, or the variance right right right.

J

It says three per unit.

A

To summarize again, one unit is the main structure which I already exist, and the unit number two would be the unit over the garage.

G

Correct which is just currently garage there, there's no, it's a 25 about 25 by 25 structures. Here, that's just used for storage, okay,.

A

So there is not like a two unit plus the house: that's not the case correct, okay and then you want to have three in the unit over the garage and then three within the main structure. That's the way I understand it.

G

I mean I I I don't think it would be feasible to do three in the main structure. I would just like to keep that as two. That would be fine and then do one or two in the garage. That's currently just stored.

A

So basically, you're gonna have a total of four people in the house in the entire property yeah.

G

One two and one and two in the other: yes, sir, and.

A

Then you already have four parking lots. There's.

G

Four parking spaces currently so.

A

Then, while you are here, then.

C

They he's here because it's two structures on one place, but, okay, what what we are confused about is we are looking and it it seems as if this is asking for a variance as far as the parking issue, which that clearly doesn't seem to be what he's asking for now.

G

Yeah yeah we have four off or four on off street and then there's parking along brown up to the stop sign along the uh road as well.

F

It also says increase the argument to three in each unit. It doesn't usually looking at two and one.

G

G

Now I must have mis uh mis uh wrote that or mistyped, because it's just three or four depend up two in the main structure: nothing, no additional and then one or two in the garage unit. Because.

F

The verbiage has obviously two three and each unit on property. That's what I'm right.

A

I think that three should be changed to two right: correct. Yes, sir, okay, so we're going to change that to two and if that's the case, uh mr riggs, I think we should uh disregard the parking issue.

B

That is correct. If they were only going to have two in each one of the units, they would only need.

A

Right, so that makes it a little bit better.

C

A

J

Nice s, so the only variance being asked for is to have two structures on the property.

C

Yeah, it seems like it.

A

And the structure is actually gonna be on the top of the garage, so I don't know if you can still call it a separated structure or not.

G

It is separate about about a foot, foot and a half. We already have electrical out there, but it is separate by, like I said about.

A

You already have the garage separate right, so you're gonna use another unit on top of it.

G

Oh no, we would actually take the garage as a two-story garage and that's what we would convert. So we wouldn't add another structure at all to it. It would just be converting the contents of the inside to okay, so.

A

Basically, the garage is going to change. Okay, yes, sir.

G

J

So the garage would become a second primary structure.

A

So basically already is that already has two structures: one is accessory because garage is called accessory, but now it's gonna be two structures units for occupancy, then because otherwise the garage wasn't liveable before so that's the accessory holding yes, sir, uh mr uh taupe, I have a question uh right now the property is being utilized right. I mean you have a renter, yes, sir, why.

G

Do you want to add people.

A

Why do you want to add people? What is the reason for that.

G

Yeah, so we um I just got the property a few months ago in the summer, and uh we started doing a lot of work on the outside, just taking out vines and weeds. I don't know if, if you guys have been by there recently, but it looks a lot better and now we have this big garage, that's just dead space, so we figured, we could add more uh another another unit there. It would be a highest and best use and we could clean up a little bit make it look a little bit better.

A

Well, because our philosophy is that we all want to respect the law and the code. Yes, and the thing is that the property is being already utilized, then you know we shouldn't be just going adding, because that would be the wish of any citizen in this town to keep. Adding, uh I assume, is the profit or, you know, say monetary cases, which we do not consider on the case. So if it is being utilized again.

A

My question is that um we probably will be granting more privilege to your property than the neighbors, because you just want to keep adding well.

G

It's it's already a structure, it's just you converting the the inside of that.

A

I know I know I mean it's our way. We grant variances for the cases that there is a hardship there is I mean if you don't give the variance. Maybe then your property will not be usable anymore or if there's a special circumstances, so you need to prove that the special circumstances that exist, that it makes it impossible to use your property and that's what we need to hear from you. Okay,.

G

Yeah, I I I can't say, there's a hardship on it. It's just you know it would just be you know, adding more uh another unit or another bedroom or two um and then get rid of that eyesore. That's just the uh garage convert that to highest and best use.

A

Okay, any other questions from the board members.

A

Okay, we will give you a chance again to come back. You know later on after we hear from everybody, so you have a chance to rebel.

A

um Is there anyone online that would like to speak in support of this variance and again, uh if somebody can see a hand going up, please let me know and or ask the people. Okay, lisa go ahead.

J

John, I just think you should clarify um once more, maybe that the parking is no longer an issue and that the only issue is that the garage would be converted into additional of secondary except or not non-accessory, and that more renters would be added, but but no no more parking spaces right.

A

We should put that in the motion that this is for a four occupancy two per unit and then that will take care of the parking, and so that's whoever is going to make. The motion should omit that part for the parking and mention that there was going to be four occupancy.

A

So in the next few minutes, maybe you can draft one lisa.

A

Okay, um all right is there. Anyone who has a general comment on this case or is in opposition.

E

John I'm just going to let uh one at a time as I see people raise their hand in the attendees list, so they'll be coming in momentarily.

A

K

Again, sorry, I'm late. I have some issues with our wi-fi.

A

It's okay, we already assigned aaron to be a voting member he's heard the whole case so far, but welcome and please participate in the discussions.

E

John, we have john kranansky in the meeting right now.

A

L

A

How are you doing.

L

Everybody well, this kind of sparked my interest, because I do drive down brown street. Often it's a pretty packed street. um I I checked through the code listings and um for the most part, with two exceptions and I believe they're grandfathered.

L

It's all single single family use or single occupancy, no more than three um and since this whole ordinance has been rewritten um as we speak. um What I would like to say is that I, I think it's very inappropriate, as he stated john uh in an r1 to have an accessory building occupied um uh single unit. Only- um and I know people worked really hard to get some of the r1 zones zoned on one so that we would have specific places in the city for single-family use.

L

uh There are plenty of properties out there and available in r2 and r3s for just what this appellant mr trope is requesting, but not an r1 and- and I fear if you would approve this- the ramifications throughout the r1 zones. Citywide.

L

Would be very damaging- um and I guess last but not least- and I think you say this john- that at present there is absolutely no hardship. This place is available for renting as a permit as off-street parking, and so uh I would recommend that the board.

L

Board does not approve this ordinance as it has been rewritten uh and I guess that's all. I have to say thank you.

C

John you're, muted.

A

Thank you joe. um Yes, john. Would you for the record the state your address? We know your.

A

L

56 mound street athens, ohio, okay,.

A

Thank you very much uh scott who do we have next.

E

I have somebody coming in here momentarily.

A

And just for the records that we have a member john, mr john goodakins, is also present and from my view he looks just like exactly like david, the rick. So.

M

Hi this is kathy coachella. I had a little blip, but it looks like you have me up, I'm the property owner at 36 brown I originally logged in, because I was opposed to any variants related to the parking we are all talking as though that has been resolved, but I did hear the property owner confused me a little bit because he did talk about on-street parking being available.

M

So I would first like to ask you to clarify that there are four off the street parking spaces with this property.

M

The second question that I have having listened to the presentation is that it's not clear to me that the garage unit wouldn't would be a full unit with plumbing and a kitchen or whether it would just be two one or two bedrooms uh in the event that it would just be bedrooms. I have a lot of concerns about that type of the situation.

M

So those are my comments and thoughts on that.

A

And you live at what the 30.

M

I'm the property owner of 36 brown, but.

A

Do you live there also.

M

A

Okay, we need an address for you, then.

M

Oh 361, north ardmore, a-r-d-m-o-r-e road, columbus, 43209.

A

Okay, thank you.

C

It would have it would have to have a kitchen and a bathroom right right yeah. It would happen.

G

Yeah, thank you miss kathy. I was uh you.

A

Want to answer those questions, yes answer her question, so this is kind of an unusual process, but it's okay go ahead and answer your question. Thank you. uh Yes,.

G

Ms kathy, so there are four spaces uh available off street um currently and we were not changing that and we would put plumbing and everything into the unit which we would have to do so it would be one or two bedrooms, plus kitchen and toilets.

G

Thank you. Thank you. Ma'am.

A

Okay, do we have any other uh in opposition? We.

E

Have one more person coming in okay.

C

N

At 37 brown, we purchased the house in 1979, and I've seen it go from all owner occupied to all rentals, so we've been around the neighborhood for a long time and I'm very pleased to hear that they're going to have outside parking.

N

That was what brought me was, but the other thing I'm concerned with is that, since we have an r1, neighborhood or district now that it was my understanding that r1 would apply to the entire property and there would be on on that property, regardless of whether there's an accessory structure, it would only be three people- and you know I'm hearing four people now and that concerns.

N

A

N

Does anyone want to talk about it? I mean well.

A

I I will ask a parent, uh mr tope, would you like to answer that.

G

um Yeah, miss rose, you've been there a long time, so you've probably seen you know, 17 walkers, just the adjoining lot purchased that probably four or five years ago and tried to clean it up and and bring the neighborhood up and make it look. You know brown has some some dilapidated houses and, uh as far as additional occupants, um since we have the off street parking and we're we're not slum lords. We're not trying to put um you know, basement units in or anything like that. These would be nice.

G

Nice units, you can, you know, speak with a lot of our tenants that we have now or or the code officers who who go out and do a lot of the inspections that this would be a nice place to live for, for students at an affordable price.

N

Okay, now I guess the question I would ask is this would be a variance from an r1 I mean would be. What you would be saying is that it's possible to get a variance from the r1 designation in the zoning to if someone just asked for it, you know like, could we could we when we die? I know our children will probably decide what to do at the house, and one thing they could do is say. Well previously, people have gotten more than three people in a house. So can we put in four ma'am.

A

They have to come back the same way as mr thorpe is doing. They have to come to the board or to the code office, and if there is something which is not allowed in r1, then they have a chance to come to the board of zoning and go through the same process.

N

Has this ever happened before I know in our neighborhood, for example, of changing our one property to the variance is given allowed to bring four people in. Have you been here long? Is it long? Is this a normal thing that has happened before and get a variant.

A

Again, we go from case to case and now, depending if they could have a hardship or any special circumstances. That applies yes in r1 or r2 or a zone. In fact, you know this variance is given in any zone depending based on the cases.

N

Okay and so in this particular case, would you say then you would grant it for hardship.

A

Well, there are six criterias uh that we will go through each one of them and we have to satisfy those criteria uh before we make a decision.

A

A hardship is one especially circumstances is one, and uh minimum variance is something that we need to consider, and um you know we have to make sure that there is no uh destruction to the neighborhood or you know just six of them we're going to go through everyone.

N

Okay, I understand.

A

Okay, um anybody else do we have scott, or that was the last uh person.

E

Are you gonna? Let people speak twice? I have some. Somebody still has a hand up.

A

Yeah we are having fun. So why not.

E

Okay, one second.

A

Unless he's joan.

M

It's kathy, it's not john.

A

I'm just kidding.

M

I just wanted to point out. I think I think rose raised a very good point. um You know we have four bedrooms and we have four um off the street parking spaces at the property at 36 brown and frankly, if this variance is approved, um you know we'll probably have to consider whether we want a similar variance and if this truly is an r1 neighborhood.

M

um This will be the domino that then, uh you know, causes all of the other property owners to consider whether or not you know we should seek a variance as well. So if it's, the flavor of the neighborhood and the r1 zoning uh that's important to the community, then this variant should be denied, because the other property owners have the same profit motive. As you know, as this particular appellate does, and no offense I'm.

M

uh You know I rent my property as well, um but there's no reason why I would stay at three if the guys across the street and down the road move up to four. So just I think rose's point is very valid.

A

Okay, thank you and john. You have unlimited time to say whatever you like.

A

I'm just I was kidding about earlier. um Okay, we had.

N

A

B

Just I just wanted to clarify this is a variance from 2303 10, which is the number of buildings. Restricted is really the variance that we're that we're talking about tonight. The way that's been changed, so it doesn't really have to do with the with the r1 zone. It's 230310 number of buildings restricted, and it says there shall be not more than one principal dwelling structure and two accessory structures uh in any zone. So this is. This is a variance for for any zone where you're allowing more than one residential dwelling on a lot. Okay,.

A

Clarify that, thank you as long as you are here now, um if we did, if he denied the variance tonight and if he comes up with some kind of an idea to be able to put all four people in the main building and keep the garage as this structure as a accessory building would he need is still to come to the board if he puts all four people in the main building.

B

You would need to reapply for a permit and we would have to check to see that all the restrictions for that are one's own uh apply for that. So if it doesn't meet all of those current restrictions in our code, then he would come to this, but again, okay, if, if whatever he did because it's hypothetical whatever he did- met the r1 code that we would not need to come back to the sport. Okay.

A

And mr tope, that was just an option in case this variance doesn't go through. I in case I mean you're the property owner. So if you need to put maybe all four people in the main building you okay. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to read this letter. This is a 16 page letter, but I'm just going to summarize it is by mr thomas minty. I don't know if I pronouncing his name last name correctly or not. His address is 27 walker street and he says he's across from 41 brown.

A

I didn't know how you could be on walker street, uh but be across from the street of 41 brown. How? How is it.

H

His driveway is on brown.

A

Okay, okay and uh mr manti says that he's been he's a homeowner in residence at 27 walker across from 41 brown, and his concerns are about the to accommodation more than more tenants than their um and automobiles. So he probably was not aware of the number four versus six and also the on-site uh parking.

A

um He was concerned about parking density in the sense of both number of occupants and a consequential lifestyle and given the extended fenced yard at the 41, which will bring up the dogs he was concerned about the dog he's been there for 25 years and then he provides a background of the previous owners of 41 brown at the time he says mr manti says that at present, 41 brown provides parking for two small cars in the garage and comfortably a space for two vehicles in the driveway.

A

But then he says the garage has not been used really for parking. Cars is either been given the permission for neighbors or people to work in the garage as it works, use it as a workshop or a storage or repairing cars, and then again, I'm just glancing through the pages it says, driveways are usually filled on brown and there are no plausible, reliable extra space along the street at 41 brown. I was there today and I can see that it was really all cars were parked in there.

A

It's a very narrow street, mr mentally also states that safety issues with his with his own driveway because of the cars being parked over there. Rental properties are so commonly over-occupied and over-parked. At that.

A

Obviously they had a meeting and in the athens west side, community association, discussing the density, which is an issue in that neighborhood and a lot of discussion on dogs at the present time. He says there are two dogs at 41 brown and he seems to like them actually, so he says in the year 2020 this year for the first time in years,.

A

At 41 brown dogs have not been an issue, so that's good and again he the neighborhood, as is, is densely populated. It cannot host more residents in excess of current circumstances for 41 brown and then.

A

Again, there's more discussion on dogs and the other are not quite directly related to the case we are hearing tonight. So, mr tope, you want to address any of these issues. This would be the last one.

G

uh Yeah, I think he might be talking further down brown. It's a one-way street, but at that intersection of walker and brown, there's a lot. It's it's very. It's actually pretty open right there. Once you get down further, the the structures are very, very close, um and this is we're not talking about adding another structure, as as uh mr manti, I believe you said and mentioned, uh this would be yeah. There would be no additional parking needed.

G

um You know and as he said, you know, um I think something he might have mentioned in that, and that long letter is is the condition the property's been in this year. um You know we're trying to clean up and do things for a community. You know I was born and raised in athens, so um I do. I think, if you look at any of the units that I own it's it's, it's trying to.

G

uh You know elevate those and still provide affordable housing, and I think all the tenants would would uh would agree with that.

A

A

Any other discussion, lisa did you. I saw this popped up that you had made a comment. Something do you have anything to say ad lisa anybody.

J

Else answering um joan, had asked a question in the chat. Oh.

A

Okay- okay, I'm sorry, I'm not seeing the chat right now; um anything else that anyone wants to ask or any questions before we close the floor from the discussions.

G

um Mr john, I think joan just asked is the garage able to be used for parking hasn't been checked out. um We currently since I bought it earlier this year. We have just used it for storage. I don't see any issues to use it for parking, but it has not. We have not used it for parking due to the excessive or the enough spaces that we have uh in the driveways. Do.

A

You know what the size of the garage.

G

Is it's about 25 by 25, 25.

A

By 25 well, that is uh that's a good size for the two-car garage, yes or two-way car yeah, okay,.

G

Yeah, it looks like it might have been a door taken off before, but it was a full two-car garage at one time.

A

Yeah is that 18 by 20 that is required for each space, but this is a garage so yeah, okay,.

A

Any other questions comments we're going to close the discussions from the floor and go over their findings. Assuming I can find them. Okay, exceptional circumstances.

A

Are there exceptional or extraordinary circumstances or conditions applying to the property in question? Lisa.

K

Has something to say.

J

Did you want to have that motion.

A

uh Okay, yeah go ahead thanks.

J

Okay, I moved to grant a variance to the property.

J

At 41 brown avenue from athens city code, 2303 10 to allow two primary structures where one is allowed.

A

Very good: do we have a second, yes.

I

We have it right here: okay,.

A

Okay, okay, second great um now we're going to go to any discussions before we go through the findings. No.

H

Well, one thing I'm I want to put in here somewhere: maybe that makes sense before you get into the questions and answers here. Is that something I like to point out is that the city's comprehensive plan, which is currently being reviewed for approval by city council, has a recommendation that specifically says to allow or permit accessory dwelling units quote garage conversion accessory drilling structures in r1 zones.

H

This plan recommends amending athens city code to permit duplex construction and conversions in r1 zones as a conditional use if the dwelling owner is occupied. So my point is that this idea is a good idea. uh Athens has a shortage of affordable housing, and this is something that's been that the city is concerned about, and we have a commission. That's focused on affordable housing. That's concerned about this issue.

H

Adding accessory dwelling units is a way to help with that to add additional housing at low cost, but the exception to that is that generally, if that is allowed and would be allowed, if the zoning were to change or the code were to change, it sounds like it's, not the zoning code, specifically according to what mr rigg said, but if that were to change according to this recommendation, then the requirement would still be that the primary dwelling is owner occupied and that they're adding an additional dwelling that would allow renters or someone else to live in the property, maybe a relative, and so it doesn't quite meet the criteria for this.

H

But I wanted to bring this up with something to make sure you're. All aware of is that accessory dwelling units aren't a bad thing. Even in r1 zones, they're they're a good thing when it comes to increasing, affordable housing and also increasing financial options for landowners.

H

But the key is that it's best, if that's done when the primary dwelling is occupied by the owner.

A

Okay, joan you had a comment, would you like to open your microphone and and state it or somebody read the I can read it: okay,.

J

Yeah, I was just going to comment that that he makes what can be a good point, except that if we were to sort of adopt that um it does rate, it would raise a lot of issues around parking and things like that, um if not in this case than in others, so it just seems like kind of a can of worms. I guess anyway. Joe's comment is that the new comprehensive plan is still in draft status and the item that he brought up could be removed in the finalized plan.

A

And I don't know if we can, I specify as a low-cost housing I mean I don't know who determines is a low-cost housing or not, um but.

H

So my point to make sure you got that was that technically in this situation, this really doesn't quite apply, because the key is even the recommendation from the city and the comprehensive plan recommends or says the conditional use would be if the dwelling is owner occupied, the primary dwelling, in other words, uh or one of the dwellings at least, is owner occupied.

H

So it doesn't quite apply here anyway. Even to say this is something the city wants, and we should do this. It's it's not. We didn't meet the criteria here. Okay,.

J

I would like to add something and I'm sorry it's not relevant to the case but to the comprehensive plan. I would hope that um the burden is not going to be on us to help these elements of the plan um come into being because it seems to me that if there are things that they want done differently, they can change the code rather than expect us to be granting variances right and left.

H

Right, although I think in this case, if it, if it was an owner occupied situation, it might make sense for us to grant a variance based on the fact. This is what the city wants to do, even though the the code hasn't changed yet, but it doesn't apply here. As I just said, we.

O

Had a I want to add, we had a similar case last year with exactly what you're talking about with uh they wanted to add in-law suite on the east side.

O

So you know this is it may be something to look at for the future, but this this is maybe the second case with the same issue in the past 12 months of ad on, but the other case had owner. I could see they wanted to add an in-law suite, and our biggest thing was that we didn't want to turn to a rental because it wasn't zoned for rental. It was only going to be a in-law suite, so this is maybe something similar to what we're have in front of us tonight.

O

Yeah, I think it was, was a grandfather.

K

Too it was, it had been uh okay.

H

Okay, yeah yeah, that's the other thing. There are a number of grandfathered secondary, associate dwellings that have occupants, at least on the near east side, neighborhood, I'm not sure about the far east side neighborhood, but that is something that's commonly grandfathered in already there's a number of additional uh dwellings on properties in the r1 zones. But um I'm not sure if that's common on the west side, though, because the properties tend to be smaller.

A

Okay, thank you, lisa. I want to go back to your motion again earlier. We talked about having a limit of four. Would you like to demand the motion by saying no more than four occupancy, so that numbers will not be an issue in the future.

J

Okay, um so do I just let's see so requesting the variance, as I said um above, to allow two primary structures where one is allowed and no more than four occupants.

A

Total total four yeah, no.

J

A

A total of four arguments- okay, um is, the second is still k applies. You want to steal second,.

I

No, I actually don't because my understanding of looking at the code for an r1 on unoccupied rental says no more than three.

A

But but we are making a variance, you know we are just the variance that is that.

I

We can allow for yeah, but I thought that mr riggs said really. This should only be about uh the accessory structure becoming a primary. I would rather not get into how many places can be rented.

A

Well, since we took the parking out of the equation, that was with the understanding that four parking already exists, so if they want to have more than four, then they probably have to go back to their code office and again we are giving the variance you know you know, that's what the code says. Three.

I

A

Giving them a variance.

I

A

All right thanks now we can go to the findings. The exceptional circumstances are there any exceptional or extraordinary circumstances or conditions applying to the property in question or to the intended use of the property that do not apply generally to other properties or classes or uses in the same zone.

C

I

Don't think a case has been made for that.

A

Okay, are there any practical difficulty and undue hardship because of exceptional or extraordinary circumstances or conditions pertaining to a specific piece of property? A literal enforcement of these regulations would result in practical difficulty or undue hardship that is unnecessary to the achievement of the public purposes.

A

So if there is no exceptional circumstances and there is no really hardship, so there is no hardship right, I'll agree, uh preservation of equal property rights, a literal interpretation of these regulations would deprive the appellant of rights commonly enjoyed by others in the same zone and the same vicinity.

A

While the granting of the requested variants will not confer on the applicant any special privilege that is denied to other properties in the same zone and the same vicinity, joe.

F

A

Is this minimum variance? Well earlier? I thought it wasn't uh minimum because there were actually three different things going on.

A

But I could say maybe that is minimum.

C

I I would agree it's fairly, it's fairly minimal, okay,.

A

Absence of yeah.

J

I don't understand: why would this be a minimum variance to allow the accessory structure to be another primary structure.

I

I agree with lisa because uh the property can be used um currently without reasonably, without this variance being passed or allowed.

A

My origin was just because you know there were three variances before now is one so in that respect, but you're right, yeah.

J

Yeah- and I think it should be sad that um the the owner properly is interested in maximizing his profit um on his rental, but I think so many people come before us without really understanding that that's not a criterion for us to consider, and partly it speak, maybe because when they look at the findings, the findings are a little bit obscure in their language. You know, and I think it would be good if that could be somehow made clear. You know I think we talked about doing a video, we're doing something to sort of.

J

Let people understand what what kinds of reasons variances are granted. um I think people they quite reasonably and they some some people, obviously not are present appellant. But some people get pretty frustrated and angry because they don't understand why we wouldn't just be granting a variance so that they can do what they want to do with their property and have more residents or whatever, so that they can make more money. And it's a reasonable question.

A

Yeah, that's that's a good point lisa and in the city of athens you know, there's some other cities that financial difficulty is considered, but in city of athens um those six criteria are pretty much explains everything we are not going to give variances. If somebody wants to increase their usage of the property uh above and beyond. The code allows absence of detriment that the authorization of such variants will not be a substantial detriment to the adjacent property and will not materially impair the purpose of the zoning code or the public interest.

A

Again we had a couple of people testified tonight, and we had this very comprehensive letter um from a neighbor that this would have created some issues, especially with the density in the neighborhood and not of a general nature.

A

No okay, are we ready to vote?

A

uh Let me see where is my first page lisa, since you are on right now we can see you let's go and start with you.

J

A

um Joe, I vote no, okay, no, no and uh aaron.

O

A

And I would know as well I'm sorry you don't have the variance, but we discussed maybe some other options that you may consider for not having two structures.

A

You could keep, maybe the garage as an accessory uh structure, but not for living. Okay, thank.

G

You all for your time appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.

A

So finally, we have in here other business disposition of the minutes from november 10 2020 meeting. That was also a very long 15 page document. I haven't read all of it, um so I probably can't vote tonight. But if we have three members who have read everything I know lisa, you made some uh changes and you submitted to uh miss jake, and so she we have a new version of that.

A

Do we have enough members who have read the whole minutes, show of hand? Okay and aaron. You were not here last time. uh So do we have a motion to approve the minutes of uh november 10 2020.

I

A

Okay, all in favor just raise your hands. Well, let me just go by that by person. uh Lisa.

J

I vote to approve, and I also um second, oh it's a second sorry um and I just want to say I don't blame her for not showing up for this meeting.

J

I could not have written those minutes out. Yeah.

A

um The minutes were very good, they were very comprehensive.

A

Do we need a? I mean it wasn't exactly verbatim transcribed, but I think maybe we should suggest something more more kind of a condensed, maybe a detailed summary, rather than just a comprehensive um and so forth.

A

Okay, okay and that would be less work and, of course we always have the. uh I don't know from the legal point of view. Mr riggs, uh I mean I don't want to say something that to be too summarized, and then we have issues with it. These minutes are legal documents, but we also have the tapes so that the verbatim could be always created if needed, I'll, follow up and take care of it. Okay, all right.

A

So for the accepting of the menace lisa, you said yes, um joe yeah and uh aaron.

F

Here I wasn't here, I was listening in that's.

A

Right, you were not here, but john john good against. You were here.

K

Yes, definitely, and I also think that what lisa brought up today is is a great the greatest idea. You know: have these people go to their neighbors, I mean we should tell them, go to your neighbors talk to them.

K

If, if you talk to four neighbors- and they say no way- I'm not gonna vote for that, then they they're not wasting our time coming to us and us telling them that they should have gone to their neighbors instead of you know, instead of saying I just want to make a ton of money and and stuff like that, so I think well.

A

I made the suggestions of this goes back to a few years ago to create some videos, and since scott is here and ryan, is here to videos that could be done professionally either by maybe some of us, or maybe by others, to to discuss those things and have them played on the government channel.

A

uh Would you like to be the person to do it.

K

I vote for aaron, I he'd he'd have a great soundtrack and.

J

He makes a good point. I got all right.

K

Got it we got the studio right here, pretty.

O

K

He's got a studio and everything.

A

Is ready to go.

E

Yes, that may be a question for the law director to see what's permitted like that, oh.

J

Okay: okay, oh law, director, yeah.

A

Yeah again, this was nothing new. It was discussed a few years ago, along with other ideas, but we'll revisit those um okay. So john got a case. You said yes and uh I'm gonna say no, because uh I haven't read the whole thing, but the emotion is uh approved.

A

You have three of anything else to discuss. If not the meeting is adjourned.