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From YouTube: Athens City Planning Commission Meeting 04-17-08
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A
A
A
A
They
establish
that
Robert's
Rules
of
Order
will
be
the
procedure
that
will
follow,
which
is
what
we've
been
following,
and
that
three
members
constitute
a
quorum.
The
Commission
will
elected
chair
and
vice-chair
from
among
the
appointed
members
for
two-year
terms.
If
the
quorum
is
present,
motions
are
deemed
passed,
if
approved
by
a
majority
of
those
voting
to
be
on
the
agenda.
A
case
must
have
all
paperwork
complete
in
the
office
of
the
mayor
by
noon.
On
Thursday
a
week
before
the
scheduled
meeting
and
the
rest
of
it
is
pretty
routine.
C
Madame
sure,
if
I
might
discuss
as
I
know,
there
have
been
a
question
about
this
and
I've
spoken
to
you
in
my
office
that
state
law
actually
provides
that
the
Planning
Commission
material
specifically
has
authority
to
adopt
those
bylaws
and
so
I
guess.
I
was
a
little
surprised
as
I
think
some
others
were
as
well
that
we
didn't
already
have
them,
but
in
the
absence
of
bylaws
I
think
this
is
a
pretty
smart
thing
to
be
doing.
B
A
D
A
E
A
F
F
Mister
Hoisington,
who
has
a
proposed
subdivision
within
three
miles
of
town
outside
the
corporation
limits,
but
within
the
planning
jurisdiction
of
the
city
proposed
a
subdivision
called
Tyler
Ridge.
The
number
of
Lots
has
changed
along
the
way,
basically
because
of
consideration
for
private
sewage
disposal
systems,
and
that
is
reviewed
and
approved
by
the
County
Health
Department
County
Health
Department.
My
understanding
is
that
they
review
all
private
sewage
disposal
systems
for
one
two
and
three
family
dwellings.
These
are
all
proposed
to
be
single-family
dwellings.
F
Originally
there
was
a
preliminary
approval
might
have
been
in
those
six,
maybe
as
far
back
as
oh
five
at
the
end
of
last
year,
mr.
hoisin
can
came
back
and
asked
for
an
extension
of
time
because
the
two
years
allowed
for
that
preliminary
approval
had
expired,
I
believe
miss
Kahn.
You
made
a
motion
to
reappear
approval,
but
then
mr.
Hoisington
would
have
to
come
back
then
for
final
approval,
which
would
include
payment
of
new
preliminary
and
final
review
fees
or
application
fees.
Excuse
me
so,
as
I
recall,
mr.
F
Hoisington
just
asked
me
where
this
was
that
process
what
he
needed
to
do,
and
could
he
come
in
and
kind
of
explain
the
situation?
Where
is
he?
Where
is
he
at?
What
does
he
need?
What
needs
to
be
provided
because,
even
from
way
back
when
I
think
you
can
recall
these
things
where
subdivisions
are
outside
the
city
and
probably
annexation
is
not
imminent.
F
The
Planning
Commission,
the
city
of
Athens,
is
reviewing
a
project.
It's
going
to
be
that
overseen
by
Township,
Trustees,
County
Commissioners,
you
know
County
Road,
crews,
township
road
crews,
volunteer
fire
departments,
County
Sheriff,
and
so
traditionally
the
Planning
Commission
has
looked
for
input
from
those
public
officials
that
will
provide
service
to
those
areas.
F
In
any
case,
it's
always
the
County
Health
Department
for
sewage
disposal.
So
there
were
those
you
know
those
kinds
of
questions
not
necessarily
having
to
go
through
a
complete
full
blown.
You
know
like
you're
in
the
city
kind
of
thing,
with
five
foot,
sidewalks
curb
and
gutter,
possibly
storm
water,
detention
and
those
kinds
of
things.
So
this
has
been
ongoing
over
quite
a
few
months.
Actually
several
years,
and
so
mr.
Hoisington
is
at
the
point
now
where
he
would
like
to
have
a
plat
approved,
so
it
can
be
recorded
and
lots
can
be
sold.
F
F
F
A
G
Hi
I'm
Dave
voicing
tton
and
I'm
trying
to
get
this
little
project
finished
up
here.
This
is
kind
of
an
update,
an
outgoing
update
and
an
incoming
question
as
to
what
I
need
to
do
to
finish
this.
What
I
provided
there's
what's
down
the
road
is
mostly
there.
The
ex
water
and
ap
are
committed
null
school
cable,
which
is
not
a
priority
or
not
a
requirement,
but
they
are
available.
G
Mr.
hammer,
mr.
Pearson
are
discussing
as
far
as
it
to
the
best
of
my
knowledge
how
and
where
I
believe
mr.
hammer
once
somewhere
stated
either
on
the
legal
descriptions
are
on
the
plat
or
somewhere
that
there
will
be
actual
notice
to
to
buyers
of
the
laws
that
they
have
to
get
their
septic
approved
for
their
individual
body,
even
though
I've
got
them
generally
approved
for
a
septic
system.
At
this
point,
the
ODA
permit
for
the
road
bore
it,
which
is
to
bring
Lee
acts
under
the
road
and
for
basically
just
entering
state
law.
G
692
from
my
Road
is
reapply
for
I
had
it
once,
and
it
expired
due
to
the
length
of
time.
This
is
unfortunately
taken.
I
have
a
contractor
working
on
some
stuff
now
and
he's
gonna
get
with
the
engineer
and
finish
up
this
fax
he's
giving
me
estimates
on
actually
finishing
the
road
which
is
basically
just
putting
a
stone
down
at
this
point
and
and
improving
the
ditches
and
then
I've
got
you
know
some
things
that
we'll
do
when
the
road
is
being
finished.
I
have
the
mylar
flat
map
the
final
plat
with
the
signature
lines.
H
G
A
F
F
F
You
know
there
are
some
requirements
for
providing
engineered
documents
on
how
the
road
will
be
constructing
the
type
of
row
of
the
type
of
service,
the
slope,
the
curves,
those
kinds
of
things
which
I
believe
mr.
Eisenberg
has
reviewed
some
drawings
on
that,
in
addition,
there's
bonding
that's
required,
I
believe
in
the
county.
It's
one
hundred
percent
of
the
cost
at
the
engineer's
estimate
of
cost
to
install
the
road
and
I
also
believe
that
on
the
county
level,
they
want
a
100
on
maintenance
bond
for
two
years
and
that's
just
in
case.
F
F
I
know
I,
remember
on
the
Regional
Planning
Commission
level,
when
we
change
the
Regional
Planning
Commission
change.
Those
regulations
is
because,
using
between
year
one
and
year,
two
is
when
you
see
the
failure,
and
the
bond
is
if
it's
a
one
year
bond
bond,
god
I
think
it's
especially
important
to
consider
this
because
of
the
situation
out.
F
The
case
of
Stone
Hill,
the
bond
is
issued
to
the
County
Commissioners,
but
in
some
cases
it's
in
the
past
it's
been
issued
to
the
city.
My
own
preference
would
be
that
it
be
issued
in
favor
the
person
or
the
entity.
That's
going
to
possibly
have
to
it's
going
to
maintain
the
road
or
or
get
some
kind
of
reimbursement
from
the
bond
in
order
to
repair
it.
F
A
G
B
G
The
part
that
would
be
most
likely
to
fail,
I
believe
would
be
the
hill
the
entry
going
in
and
it's
already
stoned.
It's
a
ditch
base
a
ditch
compacted
base
as
set
forth
in
the
county's
regulations.
I
was
providing
and
it
is
not
I
mean
it's
it's
solid
and
it
will
be
additional
on
top
of
that,
but
the
rest
of
it
is
pretty
flat,
and
you
know
I
understand
if
there's
a
requirement
for
the
bottom
I,
don't
problem
with
that,
but
I
don't
want
to
be
penalized
for
something
that
happened
to
somebody.
G
G
If
somebody
needs
to
sign
off
that
the
form
is
provided
to
me
for
them
to
sign
this,
so
I
don't
have
to
generate
something
and
try
and
everybody
say
no
and
then
I
generate
something
else
and
people
say
no
and
I'm
really
getting
frustrated
by
that
kind
of
the
way
it's
going
to
zone
I,
guess
that's
it.
Okay,.
B
G
G
G
Health
of
a
mr.
hammers
here
so
he
can
address
any
questions,
but
as
I
understood
now
he
had
some
questions
after
I
passed
oil
scientists
on
the
property,
twice
digging
holes
and
mr.
hammer
had
some
questions
after
the
second
time
and
I
had
the
soil
scientist
come
down
and
we
all
sat
at
the
health
department
talked
and
I
I
believe
he's
got
that
all
worked
out,
except
for
specifying
as
I
understand
it.
G
J
This
subdivision
for
several
years
and
I've
got
a
pretty
good
stack
of
correspondence
between
the
department
and
mr.
heisting
ttan
and
there's
a
couple
issues
that
still
need
to
be
taken
care
of
here
and
Dave
referred
to
a
requirement
that
we
are
considering
to
put
some
kind
of
language
on
the
property
deeds
themselves
or
on
the
plat,
and
that's
a
little
bit
unusual,
because
people
have
to
come
and
get
a
permit
from
the
city.
J
County
Health
Department
for
development
of
a
private
sewage
system
when
they
develop
that,
but
what's
happened
here
is
the
the
soils
and
the
the
on
these
Lots.
According
to
the
data
that
mr.
Hoisington
submitted
to
us
has
got
some
severe
limitations
in
terms
of
putting
on
on-site
sewage
systems,
it's
possible
to
do
it,
but
it's
going
to
be
difficult.
J
We
unfortunately
went
through
a
transition,
fortunately
or
unfortunately,
between
what
we're
called
the
old
rules
from
the
Ohio
Department
of
Health,
two
new
rules
and
under
the
old
rules.
These
lots
probably
could
not
be
developed
with
on-site
systems
under
the
new
rules,
there's
additional
options
that
are
available
to
developers,
and
so
it
opens
the
door
for
these
Lots
to
be
developed.
However,
the
old
standby
traditional
systems
that
are
the
simplest
cheapest
to
put
in
the
most
reliable
systems
are
probably
not
possible
on
these
Lots
either
for
initial
installation
or
for
the
required
replacement
area.
J
So
in
the
last
year,
or
so,
I've
been
working
with
the
Planning
Commission's
to
develop
criteria
for
what
what
kind
of
Lots
do
we
want
to
create
in
Athens
County
and,
generally
speaking,
the
input
I've
got
from
the
Planning
Commission's
has
been
that
we
need
a
large
array
of
options
on
any
given
lot
so
that
the
developers
of
those
Lots
when
they
put
a
house
on
it,
have
multiple
design
options.
They
can
put
a
cheap,
cheaper
system
or
a
more
expensive
system
that
they
want
to
to
deal
with
sewage
disposal.
J
These
Lots,
unfortunately,
are
going
to
tend
to
be
more
expensive
in
terms
of
developing
and
putting
on
successful
on-site
sewage
treatment
systems.
So
that
is
the
reason
we
would
like
to
put
that
information
right
up
front
on
the
deed,
so
they
by
buying
these
properties,
doesn't
assume
that
they've
got
this
large.
You
know
a
multiple
array
of
options
to
put
sewage
systems.
They
may
be
quite
restricted
in
what
they're
able
to
do,
and
the
last
communications
that
mr.
J
B
J
The
native
soil
is
there
and
that's
what
it
is.
The
new
rules
have
other
design
options
that
people
can
employ
in
disposing
of
sewage
effluent.
On
a
lot
you
have
to
keep
it
contained
a
lot.
There
has
to
be
some
sort
of
soil
based
leeching
system
to
absorb
the
septic
affluence
from
these
homes.
So
in
other
words,
you
can't
have
like
a
treatment
system
with
an
open
pipe
discharging
that's
forbidden
by
state
requirement
at.
B
J
E
J
Aerators,
it
is
a
suitable
way
to
pretreat.
All
of
these
Lots
are
gonna
require
pretreatment,
and
all
of
these
lots,
or
most
of
them
are
gonna,
require
some
kind
of
a
modified
leach
field
to
deal
with
the
sewage
effluent,
either
on
the
initial
installation
or
a
replacement
area,
they're
just
difficult.
So
let's
I
did.
B
J
Number
five
is
a
special
case
because
both
on
the
initial
installation
and
on
the
replacement
area,
the
soils
are
limited
to
the
point
where
you're
gonna
have
to
have
an
elevated
leach
field
or
a
mound
type
system
which
is
a
legitimate
way
of
dealing
with
sewage.
But
you
don't
have
those
simpler,
lower
tech
options
available
to
that
lot.
At
all,.
J
You
know
again
over
the
last
year
or
so
in
this
transition
to
these
new
rules.
One
of
the
requirements
we
had
was
to
coordinate
with
the
Planning
Commission
and
we
came
up
with
a
little
chart
that
gave
a
an
array
of
options.
So
when
we
review
the
soil
work,
we
use
this
document
and
it
says,
based
on
the
submitted
information
for
this
lot
in
our
review,
the
soils
appear
suited
to
the
following
design:
types
for
an
online
home
sewage
treatment
system
and
the
two
above.
J
The
dotted
line
are
kind
of
the
simple,
traditional,
low-energy,
reliable
systems
that
most
people
use
below
the
dotted
lines
are
the
higher
tech,
elevated
leach
fields
or
mound
systems
or
drip
irrigation
systems
that
are
just
you
know,
generally
used
in
response
to
very
difficult
site
conditions.
What
we've
talked
about
in
the
Planning
Commission's
is
that
in
creating
new
Lots
anything
above,
if
you
could
check
the
boxes
above
the
dotted
lines,
we
would
generally
favor
those
Lots
being
created
in
the
county.
J
If
they're
below
the
dotted
lines,
we
would
not
simply
because
you're
creating
Lots
that
very
difficult
restrictions
and
less
options
available.
So
since
this
process,
you
know
so
if
this
was
coming
to
us
brand
new,
even
though
these
were
all
legal
systems,
we
would
recommend
that
the
Lots
not
be
created.
However,
we've
been
working
with
mr.
A
J
D
J
The
the
sites
are,
our
review
requires
that
there
be
room
to
put
in
an
initial
sewage
treatment
system
when
we've
reviewed
these
four
four
bedroom
houses.
So
that's
the
footprint
the
bedrooms
relate
to
the
amount
of
wastewater
that
we
estimate
coming
from
home,
so
a
two-bedroom
home
would
have
less
than
a
four.
These
were
reviewed
for
a
four
bedroom
or
a
four
bedroom
house,
which
obviously
is
less
affluent
than
would
come
from
a
six
bedroom
to.
E
J
E
J
J
J
We
inspect,
of
course
we
review
the
specific
information
when
the
developments
occurring
when
those
actual
homes
being
built
and
the
sewage
systems
being
installed,
and
then
we
look
at
them
as
they're
being
installed.
So
we
inspect
the
pipe
as
it's
going
and
make
sure
the
connections
are
correct,
make
sure
everything's
going
in
according
to
an
approved
design
plan,
and
then
we
do
an
operational
inspection.
E
H
Afternoon
by
like
a
bird
county,
planner
I
can
go
over
the
steps
for
road
approval
because
there
I
think
it
is
confusion
about
that
and
it
does
get
a
little
bit
complicated.
So
maybe
I
can
clarify
that
a
bit
iffy
roads
to
be
accepted
for
public
maintenance,
whether
it's
city
or
county
it'll,
need
to
be
designed
by
a
professional
engineer
and
will
have
to
have
a
a
set
of
plans
and
mist.
Rising
ttan
had.
E
H
Will
come
in
with
the
final
play,
I
mean
you
shouldn't
approve
the
final
plan
without
that,
as
a
piece
of
supporting
documentation
and
I
have
asked
that
on
the
final
plat,
the
county
engineer
have
a
sign
off
on
their
since
it
is
gonna,
be
a
road.
That's
got
to
be
accepted
by
the
county
system
and
it'll
be
maintained
by
the
trustees,
whether
you
have
the
trustees
signature
on.
H
There
is
really
up
to
you
as
a
courtesy
type
of
thing
that
probably
wouldn't
hurt
to
have
them
signing
off
too,
but
my
understanding
is
that
technically,
legally
the
trustees
can't
really
say
no,
even
if
they
don't
like
it,
they
all
they
have
is
a
courtesy
review.
In
fact,
on
the
regional
planning
commission
plants,
we
have
changed
the
language
where
the
trustees
signed
to
just
say
we
have
reviewed
this
instead
of
we
have
approved
this.
H
The
the
authority
for
accepting
roads
into
the
county
system
is
totally
up
to
the
county
commissioners,
and
they
will
rely
almost
totally
on
the
recommendation
of
the
county
engineer,
and
so
that
is
why
I
would
have
both
the
county
engineer
and
the
county
commissioners
signing
off
Platts.
That
involve
roads
that
are
gonna
go
into
the
county
system,
because
that
plat
is
the
legal
docket
and
it's
always
been
my
attempt
or
policy
to
try
to
try
to
not
have
too
many
documents
associated
with
the
plat,
especially
if
they're
legal
documents
that
have
to
be
filed.
H
I
like
to
have
as
much
of
that
on
the
plan
itself.
So
when
we
talk
about
sign
offs,
ideally
I'd
like
to
see
on
these
roads
that
are
gonna
become
County
roads
or
Township.
Roads
have
the
township
trustees,
the
county
engineer
and
the
county
commissioners
signing
off
with
just
the
review
for
the
trustees.
But
that
way
everybody
involved
has
at
least
had
a
sayin.
But
it's
important
to
remember
the
county.
Commissioners
are
the
final
authority.
If
the
trustees
don't
like
it,
and
even
if
the
county
engineer
says,
don't
do
it,
they
can
still
say
we'll.
H
Another
sign
off
that
we
require
with
the
engineered
plans
once
the
road
is
built.
We
ask
that
the
professional
engineer
that
Dave
is
using
sign-off
that
at
each
stage
of
construction
it
was
built
according
to
the
plans,
because
the
county
doesn't
have
the
capacity
to
be
out
there
inspecting
full-time
when
when
the
roads
built.
So
we
put
that
burden
back
on
their
professional
engine,
so.
H
Submit
all
that
should
come
in
with
the
final
plans
and
then
whatever
portion
of
the
road
or
other
improvements
isn't
completed
at
the
time
of
final
plat
acceptance,
they're
supposed
to
be
an
engineer's
estimate
that
says
this
much
work
is
yet
to
be
done.
This
is
how
much
it
will
cost,
and
this
is
the
bond
amount
to
cover
that
in
the
event
it's
not
built
and
then,
as
Steve
pointed
out
the
county
and
unfortunately
due
to
past
situations.
But
that's
how
you
know
most
of
these
rules
come
into
into
play.
H
H
Of
a
failure
and
if
we've
had
some
pretty
big
failures
out
there,
that
cost
a
lot
of
money
to
fix
and
the
trustees,
but
by
the
time
they're
the
maintainer
of
the
road
they're,
the
ones
that
get
the
burden
of
going
back
and
fixing
it.
So
that's
why
we
try
to
get
them
involved,
even
though
they
don't
have
a
formal
legal.
No,
with
the
approval.
We
want
their
input.
G
A
G
G
G
G
G
Environmentally,
why
environmental,
wise
it
shouldn't
be
ruled
out
just
because
it's
more
expensive,
if
the
is
the
developer
of
that
law,
that
the
builder
of
the
house
understands
that
they
have
to
put
in
a
more
expensive
system,
it
wasn't
like
yeah
that
could
be
written
anywhere.
It
needs
to
be
okay.
G
G
Okay,
he
has
been,
he
has
seen
what's
done
so
far
and
did
say
the
last
time
he
was
with
me
up
there
that,
as
we
put
gravel
on
the
rest
of
it,
because
it
supposed
to
be
eight
inch
base
that
he
would
be
there
to
confirm
that
there
is
eight
inches
of
base
and
it
is
such
but
the
stone
that
we
have
on
there.
He
was
not
there
while
it
was
being
laid
down,
but
he
has
seen
I'm
not
I
have
not
ever
sign
off
anything
to
this
point.
Okay,.
C
A
F
F
However,
even
though
it's
gonna
be
outside
the
city,
as
I
mentioned
before,
I
believe
technically
variances
have
to
be
granted,
for
you
don't
have
five-foot
sidewalks,
you
don't
have
curb
and
gutter
any
of
those.
You
know
those
kinds
of
things,
because
the
city
is
planning
within
three
miles
and
I
believe
that
law
was
established
because
there
is
possibly
some
expectation
that
that
could
be
in
the
city.
E
F
Er
variances
that
the
Planning
Commission
will
recommend
to
council
chip
and
seal
Road,
for
example.
Instead
of
the
city
requires
hard
surface
concrete
or
asphalt.
Another
variance
just
to
establish,
in
the
record,
with
the
council
approval
ordinance
of
the
project
that
it
was
under
these
set
of
rules,
and
these
variances
were
granted
so.
A
So
then
mr.
Wellington
needs
to
make
a
formal
application
and
we
need
to
get
the
list
of
the
variances
that
that
would
require.
And
we
need
to
get
an
approval
in
writing
for
mr.
hammer
about
how
it's
going
to
be,
how
it's
going
to
be
approved
and
the
requirement
for
description
of
the
city
of
the
septic
system
on
the
a
lot
deeds
and
on
the
plan.
And
we
need
the
ODOT
permit.
E
E
A
F
F
The
information
that
would
be
required
on
an
application
would
simply
be
a
listing
of
the
things
that
are
in
the
code
and
that's
you
know
that's
available
online
can
be
provided
to
anyone
and
if
all
the
information
wasn't
provided,
then
an
explanation
would
be
needed
and
it
might
be.
You
know:
well,
it's
not
really
in
the
city,
it's
in
the
county.
That
would
be
the
explanation.
So.
F
A
L
E
K
F
K
K
A
B
Okay,
the
question:
yes,
we
were
out
there
earlier
took
a
look
around
nice
sunny
day
there
outside
the
city,
as
you
mentioned,
is
I
know.
Last
time
mr.
Hamm
was
here.
There
was
discussion
about
the
requirements.
Whenever
you
do
a
lot
split
outside
the
city
limits
and
the
county,
you
require
evaluation
for
septic
systems.
Has
that
been
done.
K
Well,
it
has
not
been
done
based
on
the
fact
that,
for
example,
mr.
mr.
Hamrick
camera
would
be
involved
in
the
process
of
approving
these
Lots.
If
they
were
residential
lots,
if
they
are
commercial
Lots,
we
would
need
to
get
approval
from
the
EPA,
so
we
potentially
could
go
to
the
EPA
and
get
approval
for
small
package
and
systems
for
these
Lots.
Okay,.
K
K
K
C
K
I
F
F
F
Apply
outside
the
city
and
then
Mike
in
speaking
with
mr.
Spezza
I,
was
trying
to
determine
what
the
request
was
for
was
it
for
access
to
the
public
street
was
for
the
minor
subdivision
of
the
land?
Did
it
include
annexation,
who,
if
it
was
for
the
subdivision
of
land,
who
was
going
to
provide
the
water
and
sewer
service?
Would
that
be
counsel
for
extension
of
utilities
outside
the
city,
with
the
request
for
annexation,
and
so
just
to
try
to
get
this
thing
in
motion?
F
You
know
to
have
access
to
three
proposed
Lots
one
of
the
requirements.
There
are
five
requirements
for
minor
subdivision
of
land.
The
fourth
requirement
is
approval
by
UVO
EPA
or
the
City
County
Health
Department
for
sewage
disposal.
In
this
case
it
would
be
the
OE
PA,
so
an
application
there
is
an
application
form
for
minor
subdivision
of
land
and
that's
in
the
city
and
within
three
miles
in
the
city.
F
That's
one
of
the
things
that
has
to
be
accomplished
is
that
fourth
requirement
that
there
is
some
kind
of
health
jurisdiction
approval,
and
so
there
are
several
ways
to
do
that
on
this
property,
but
not
nothing
had
been
presented.
One
of
the
requirements
is
one
that
hasn't
been
provided
a
check
of
math
accuracy
by
the
County
engineer's
office.
What
they
do
is
they
run
a
program
to
make
sure
the
survey
the
survey
closes
is
what
it's
called
that
it
actually
is
an
accurate
description
of
the
acreage.
So
it
looks
like
that's
been
done.
F
F
C
A
L
F
Generally
speaking,
when
anyone
had
asked
to
access
public
utilities
being
through
council
or
just
in
general,
you
already
have
a
lot
in
the
city:
Nick
Carr,
the
director,
the
water
and
sewer
department,
along
with
Nick
Joseph,
the
water
supervisor
and
Scott
Lambert.
The
sewer
supervisor
identify
the
location,
the
type
of
service,
its
capacity.
What
type
of
system
is
involved,
and
so
those
are
all
things
you
know
to
be
taken
into
consideration
to
access
public
utilities.
F
L
F
F
K
F
A
A
A
I
interrupt
a
minute,
I
think
we're
getting
ahead
of
ourselves
here,
since
this
in
there
isn't
an
application
for
a
minor
subdivision
at
this
point,
and
you
can't
really
answer
for
all
the
utility
departments
and
for
city
council
about
the
policies
about
extending
water
and
sewer
service
and
I
know
that
one
of
the
things
that
City
Council
has
had
to
consider
is
the
capacity
of
the
water
treatment
plant
and
sewage
treatment
plant.
And
since
these
are
are
probably
going
to
be
commercial,
lots
of
the
split
is
allowed.
A
We
don't
really
know
what
the
demand
for
utilities
will
be,
and
I
I.
Think.
There's
no
point
in
discussing
that
at
this
point,
because
we're
really
talking
about
whether
or
not
you're
going
to
apply
for
a
minor
subdivision,
so
that
would
be
the
next
apply
for
the
minor
subdivision
would
be
the
next
step.
E
E
K
K
A
D
One
of
the
problems
last
meeting
was
that
we
got
the
paperwork.
We
didn't
get
the
paperwork
ahead
of
the
meeting
so
that
legitimately
we
couldn't
really
review
that
case
today
and
we
couldn't
review
that
case
that
week
and
so
now
we
can
review
it
because
we
have
the
paperwork
and
now
and
what
we're
saying
is
that
there's
a
kind
of
process
to
go
through
and
so
that's
the
process
you
need
to
go
through.
I.
Think
that's
what
my
recollection
and
we
can
look
at
the
minutes
that
that
happened.
C
Appreciate
the
invitation
just
to
say
generally
in
the
future,
certainly
if
there
are
any
issues
to
where
you
think
there
may
be
a
potential
for
needing
advice
from
from
my
office.
I'm
certainly
happy
to
make
myself
available
to
try
to
give
me
some
heads-up.
You
know
a
few
days
in
advance
as
to
what
the
issues
might
be.
Okay,
it
does
certainly
help
out.
Do.
M
A
A
A
E
I
I
It
also
needs
before
it
kept
counsel
at
council
meeting
Monday.
They
felt
that
the
Planning
Commission
didn't
have
purview
or
what-have-you
to
review
a
review
it.
Even
though,
on
page
seven
it
says
any
future
modifications
also
be
recommended.
The
Planning
Commission
I
told
them
once
we
recommend
it
to
them.
They're
welcome
to
strike
that
and.
B
D
D
Residential
industrial,
well,
commercial,
recreational,
industrial
landscapes,
there's
a
question
of
whether
a
golf
course
is
commercial
or
renovation,
because
there's
a
difference
between
best
management
practices
and
requiring
least
toxic
biological
maintenance.
Best
management
practice
means
that
you
just
kind
of
followed
the
rules
that
you
know
the
Forestry
Service
puts
together
or
something
which
does
not
necessarily
mean
that
they
use
to
least
else
toxic
methods
just
use
toxic
methods
under
you
know
best
management
cleanup
as
Scott's
people
say
you
know,
sweep
your
driveway
after
you
cut
the
fertilizer
down.
D
E
E
A
A
A
Just
it's
just
a
matter
of
readjusting
and
then
I've
got
a
note
on
22
about
the
red
section
of.
A
A
E
A
B
B
E
D
A
E
D
E
D
A
E
D
F
E
D
I
E
F
F
Another
thing
that
I
might
make
an
observation
on
is
that
the
zoning
code
allows
for
legal
non-conforming
uses.
You
know
in
the
nomenclature
known
as
grandfathered
uses,
and
anyone
who
has
a
business
use
established
that
essentially
by
change
of
law
becomes
illegal,
is
Grandfather
their
legal
non-conforming
use.
So
I
would
say
that
any
business
I'm
not
an
attorney
just
by
simply
reading
the
section
on
nonconformity
in
the
zoning
code.
Anybody
who
is
currently
conducting
business
at
these
times
would
be
grandfathered
in,
but.
D
Women,
wouldn't
this
be
a
operational?
It's
not
a
land
use
issue.
It's
not
that
it's
an
operational
issue.
So
if
you
said
that
stores
need
to
start
closing
at
nine
o'clock
instead
of
9:30
in
the
city,
that
doesn't
seem
that
you
that,
for
my
understanding
of
grandfathering,
it
doesn't
cover
that
sort
of
thing
is.
D
F
E
G
D
Is
there
any
way
that
we
could
put
in
something
to
encourage
operators
of
outside
eateries
to
put
in
noise
reduction
devices,
and
such
I
am
one
of
my
things
as
I
was
looking
at
some
of
these
outside
eateries
and
there's
a
lot
that
they
could
do
to
actually
reduce
the
noise
now
short
of
totally
closing
down,
and
they
seem
not
to
be
available.
You
know
being
able
to
do
that,
for
whatever
reason
is
there
a
way?
B
Okay,
I
fired
member,
we
had
discussion
that
be
free
zones,
just
read
earlier
about
the
Stimson
Avenue
and
the
fact
that
the
the
way
I
was
reading
is
that
you
couldn't
have
a
restaurant
within
200
feet
of
any
r1
in
our
zones.
So
so
to
say,
let's
restrict
the
activity
in
general.
It's
probably
not
the
same
thing
we
were
talking
about
a
month
and
a
half
ago
or
two
months
ago.
We're
really
talking
about
here
is
actually
trying
to
cut
down
on
annoys
considerations
or
outside
operations
that
create
noise.
I
E
B
The
wine
cart
just
I
think
we
want
to
change
change
the
round,
not
just
say.
Okay,
all
zones
are
three
zones.
I
think
we
want.
You
know
we
want
to
concentrate
on
getting
rid
of
those
and
always,
rather
than
just
getting
rid
of
business
in
terms
of
grandfather
status.
I
thought
there
was
a
section
of
somewhere
in
the
code
and
I.
Don't
have
it
for
me
with
me
something
about
declaring
certain
operations
a
nuisance
or
therefore
getting
rid
of
them,
and
that
would
be
the
next
that's
another
trip.
B
F
Doesn't
use
these
yeah
I'm?
Sorry,
there
is
a
section
called
termination
of
non-conforming
use.
It
has
to
do
with
application
by
believe
fifty
percent
of
the
residents
within
a
certain
distance
I
believe
they
petitioned
the
Board
of
Zoning
Appeals
to
terminate
the
non-conforming
use
based
on
nuisance.
Okay,.
J
F
B
B
B
A
F
E
F
Anything
north
of
State
Street
in
the
Uptown
area,
which
is
the
far
insanity
Cawood,
so
those
businesses
below
State
Street
in
the
downtown
area,
would
not
be
affected
by
this
any
outdoor
heater
drain.
Another
thing
I'd
like
to
point
out
to
this
has
some
conflict
with
the
current
regulations
regarding
tables,
benches
and
chairs.
In
the
Uptown
area,
you
can
actually
have
eating
not
drinking
and
we
could
drink
a
Pepsi,
but
you
can
eat
and
drink
non-alcoholic
beverages
on
the
sidewalks
in
the
B
to
D
district,
with
a
permit
so
long
as
the
business
is
over.
F
There
used
to
be
a
time
when
that
was
shut
down,
even
if
your
business
was
still,
you
had
to
bring
your
tables
and
cheering
back
in
the
business,
but
there
with
council
made
a
change
that
said.
If
the
business
is
open,
you
can
eat
and
drink
with
a
permit
out
on
the
sidewalk.
So
I
don't
know
if
this
would
mean,
then
that
those
people
would
have
to
go
back
in
so.
D
They
need
to
look
at
that.
Council
needs
to
Chris
is
taking
all
this
down.
That
can
go
so
to
make
it
I.
What
I
see
is
it
if
it's
not
applying
to
Pete
to
D
zones
or
some
other
of
the
zones
that
it's
an
issue
of
fairness?
Why
only
be
three
versus
these
other?
You
know
so
they
have,
but
that
needs
to
be
addressed,
and
then
this
other
kind
of
some
of
them.
A
A
F
F
E
F
Now
we're
bw3
is
that
far
corner
on
Union
Street
and
anything
in
the
downtown
district
south
of
Union
was
just
a
little
over
500
feet
away.
So
the
zoning
code
was
amended
to
include
parking
garage
privileges
for
commercial
use
to
all
downtown
district
property
owners
and
businesses.
Btd
v2d,
so
I
think
what
you
were
where
you're
referring
to
was
a
consideration
to
reestablish
okay,
the
500-foot
does
so,
for
example,
as
I
recall,
a
measurement
from
the
parking
garage
of
Court
Street
towards
state
falls
short
of
State
Street.
E
F
B
F
I
believe
that
it's
in
Business
Regulation,
okay,
title
seven,
possibly
because
that's
the
section
of
the
code
that
has
restrictions
on
where
business
can
occur,
not
on
the
street
not
out
of
a
vehicle
not
on
public
lands,
not
on
the
sidewalk
tables
benches
and
chairs.
Ordinance
is
an
exception
to
those
it's
either
in
general,
regs
or
business
rates.
You're
right,
though,
it's
not
in
the
zoning
katanas
on
Sana'a
zoning
code.
B
D
A
B
Realize
if
you
have
a
deck
party
out
in
the
residence
and
you're
loud
and
somebody
complains,
the
policeman
will
come
there.
It
doesn't
matter
who's
out
on
a
deck
smoking
to
make
noise.
The
owner
is
probably
going
to
get
that
citation.
At
least
that's
the
ones.
I've
been
doing
community
service
with
for
four
hours
in
picking
up
trash
because
their
first
person
answered,
or
they
didn't
have
control
of
the
guy
hat
in
the
deck.
Well,
maybe
they
did
well.
D
F
B
F
D
I
mean
it's
also
I
think
business
owners
need
to
take
into
account
this
around
I
mean
tell
scotto's,
has
a
nice
outdoor
eating
and
drinking?
Not
many
people
have
complained
about
them,
so
I
mean
it's
also
a
question
of
of
trying
to
now
regulate
for
ones
that
are
taking
into
account.
What's
going
on
around
them,
because.
E
F
Let
you
know
that
I,
let
everyone
know
that,
provided
you
a
a
chart,
a
comparison
charge
of
the
large
apartment
complexes
in
town
and
what
it
does
is
every
possible
combination
that
I
could
think
of
to
determine
how
how
dense
the
project
is
should
be
included
in
that
chart.
But
I
added
was
at
the
bottom.
F
What
I
called
broke
owes
one
and
boko's
two
broke
owes
one
would
be
just
the
lot
area,
the
corner
of
Stimson
and
Palmer
Street
little
over
point.
Eighty
acres,
the
larger
number
is,
if
I
include
a
number
that
was
provided
to
me
by
Mike
Knoll,
the
project
architect
for
the
amount
of
green
roof,
so
that
given.
F
F
F
A
F
B
H
B
E
A
F
Back
an
explanation
to
if
you
notice,
by
reducing
the
number
of
units
from
30
to
29
mm-hmm,
the
lot
area
per
dwelling
unit
goes
above.
1250,
therefore
variance
wouldn't
be
necessary
if
the
proposal
was
429
as
opposed
to
30
units.
Another
thing
I'd
like
to
point
out
to
this
takes
absolutely
no
consideration
for
the
commercial
use,
the
retail
use
or
parking
requirements
for
that.
It's
comparing
into
strictly
residential
projects,
I.
D
Did
some
research
into
looking
at
units
per
acre
just
straight
residential
units
per
acre?
They
defined
repeat
units
mostly
three-bedroom,
and
so
that's
something
that
that
when
we
look
at
the
stuff,
if
you
have
most
of
the
units
being
five
bedroom,
that's
really
that's
so
you
know
the
numbers
can
be
deceiving
because
as
a
per
unit
measurement
per
unit
per
acre,
you're
still
stuffing
a
lot
more
people
in
there
they're
all
five
big
arenas,
I.
F
A
E
E
B
F
F
It's
over
1250
per
unit,
but
I
think
it's
less
than
1300.
So
it's
just
barely
over
the
threshold,
we're
a
little
if
it
had
gone
any
lower
would
have
required
a
variance.
F
F
The
only
thing
that
I
have
is
they
provided
to
you
a
copy
of
publication
coding
practice.
It's
the
most
recent
edition,
I
I'm,
a
member,
the
American
Planning
Association.
This
publication
I
subscribed
to
it
talks
about
when
I
gave
us
about
electronic
changeable
copy
signs
and
I'm
trying
to
find
all
the
parts
of
the
planning
advisory
service.
The
PAS
document
from
the
American
Planning
Association,
either
earlier
provided
to
you,
relate
it
to
electronic
changeable
copy
size.
F
It's
very
thick
I
mean
it
has
things
in
there
that
it's
amazing
that
there
are
so
many
considerations
after
birth
electronic
changed
with
caucus
lines.
Electronic
billboards
messaging
centers
I
mean
there's
lots
of
different
terms.
Descriptions
applications
as
soon
as
I
make
sure
that
I
have
that
complete
package
together.
I'll
provide
each
of
you
again.
If
you
lose
that.
E
F
M
Okay,
second
of
all
the
the
I
heard
this
issue
is
being
dealt
with,
and
maybe
some
people
I
could
ask
a
question
or
two:
what
is
the
status
of
the
updated
signage
ordinance,
because
the
proliferates
of
illegal
signage
in
terms
of
rental
properties
in
the
city
is
creating
a
blinding
situation
and
as
people
are
mobilizing
out
that
just
creates
more
and
more
of
a
of
a
downturn
in
the
neighborhood?
So
if
so,
is
there
someone
in
the
Planning
Commission?
That's
considering
that
and
what's
how
far
have
you
come
with
it?
E
E
D
D
I
really
have
yeah
and
can
I
say
something
about
that
time.
The
time
that
was
you
know
originally
at
2:30
was
changed
to
noon,
and
there
is
two
different
audiences
that
the
Planning
Commission
does
deal
with
big
deal
a
lot
with
businesses.
Everybody
almost
most
of
the
people
here
today
were
businesses.
The.
H
D
For
a
12
o'clock
is
that
you
can,
they
can
come
at
noon,
not
break
up
their
whole
afternoon
and
also
we
did
discuss
when
we
moved
the
time
about
having
the
work.
You
know
substantial
projects
and
such
having
all
public
hearings
in
the
evening
to
encourage
public
participation.
So
it's
a
balancing
act
to
be
able
to
Kinder's.
D
Here,
especially
like
Steve,
goes
to
like
six
meetings
in
the
evening
and
pull
and
pull
both
have
a
lot
of
evening
meetings,
and
so
you
have
to
have
a
balance
with
the
people
who
volunteer
to
do
this.
The
business
owners
that
we
deal
with
and
then
in
public
and
we
thought
nude,
would
be
good
cuz.
Some
people,
like
Chris,
nicely
came
down
during
the
lunch
hour.
That's.