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From YouTube: Athens City Planning Commission Meeting 09-18-08
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A
B
A
I
for
the
public
hearing
I
would,
like
everybody,
there's
a
piece
of
paper
going
around.
If
you
can,
please
sign
it.
If
you
are
thinking
about
testifying,
please
sign
it.
There's
also
on
that
same
piece
of
paper,
just
sign
it
at
the
bottom,
if
you're
just
here,
because
we
also
want
to
know
everybody
who
was
here
I'd
like
to
administer
the
oath,
so
everybody
who's
going
to
speak
today.
Please
stand
up.
C
A
A
A
A
To
to
look
at
and
in
our
discussions
that
we've
gone
over
for
the
last
few
months,
we've
had
a
lot
of
back
and
forth
about
how
it
should
be
worded.
What
sort
of
businesses
should
be
covered
and
such
we've
got
a
feedback
from
people
already
and
that's
why
some
of
the
wording
has
been
proposed
to
be
changed
on
it,
and
so
what?
A
What
we're
trying
to
determine
from
this
public
hearing
is
whether
how
businesses
feel
how
neighbors
feel
about
the
proposed
changing
of
the
operating
hours
for
businesses
in
B,
3
and
B
to
D,
because
there's
some
issue,
we
had
a
lot
of
input
from
businesses
that
shouldn't
be
B
to
D,
but
it
should
be
B
3
and
it
shouldn't
be
B
3.
It
should
be
B
to
D.
So
we
need
to
have
discussion
about
that
and
public
input
about
that.
So
any
comments
from.
C
Okay,
the
public
hearing
covered
the
reading.
In
totality
there
Athens
City,
Planning
Commission
will
hold
a
public
hearing.
Thursday
September
18th
12
o'clock,
their
chambers,
third-floor
chambers
to
City
Hall
first
meeting-
is
to
receive
public
input.
Concern
resolution
are
oh
three.
Oh
eight
regarding
amendment
of
Kazan,
Code,
section
20305,
seven,
a
three
eating
and
drinking
smith
establishments
within
the
B
three
zone.
Commission
will
receive
input
regarding
their
proposed
amendment,
adding
section
23,
o
406
B.
The
proposed
change
would
affect
outside
business
operations
near
resident
zones
within
the
city
of
Athens
in
the
b2d
zone.
C
So
that's
what
the
pilot
the
the
public
notice
was
about.
The
proposed
resolution,
just
for
the
record
is
section
2300,
406
B
that
we're
proposing
eating
and
drinking
entertaining
establishments.
The
principal
building
residing
in
the
B
to
D
zone
is
identified
by
the
Athens
city,
Athens
zoning
code
and
business
conducting
outside
out
partition
Celsius
outside
operations
at
12
a.m.
on
Friday
and
Saturday,
and
at
10
p.m.
on
each
day,
Sunday
to
Thursday
outside
operations,
I'll
be
defined
as
any
service
or
consumption
of
food
drinks
that
occur
outside
the
principal
building
of
the
establishment.
A
E
A
C
A
E
C
A
Christine
I
am
unable
to
make
the
Thursday
meeting,
but
I
would
appreciate
if
you
could
print
out
my
input
and
provide
it
to
the
Planning
Commission
I'm,
assuming
this
is
Christine
Miele.
She,
okay
alternately.
If
the
Planning
Commission
has
my
email,
I
would
be
happy
to
send
my
comments
to
directly
to
them.
My
thoughts
in
this
matter
are
some
history
background.
It's
my
understanding
that
bronies
is
opposing
this
ordinance.
However,
when
bronies
was
first
established,
they
did
not
propose
an
outside
patio
as
part
of
their
business.
A
It's
entirely
possible
that
they
would
have
been
denied
a
liquor
permit
for
this
location
if
they
had
proposed
an
outside
drinking
patio
as
their
business
close
to
a
residential
neighborhood
and
several
churches.
Bronies
then
abolished
their
outdoor
parking
to
build
an
outdoor
patio
in
clear
violation
of
city
code.
A
Under
considerable
pressure
from
the
athens
city
prosecutor
bronies
re-established
their
parking,
but
without
marking
the
spaces
as
they
are
zoned
such
that
the
cars
which
use
their
business
always
parked
perpendicular
to
the
actual
spaces,
creating
a
situation
where
larger
vehicles
blocked
the
sidewalk
in
our
tolerant
and
pragmatic
and
uniquely
Athenian
manner.
This
has
been
addressed
by
posting,
a
sign
asking
cars
not
to
block
the
sideway.
I
saw
a
solution
which
half
works.
A
A
If
the
athens
city
code
was
enforceable,
as
is
none
of
us
would
be
an
issue
because
we
wouldn't
have
a
noise
problem.
However,
the
Athens
Police
Department
has
in
the
past
testified
that
they
will
not
issue
noise,
violation,
citations
where
outdoor
bar
patios
are
concerned.
The
Athens
Police
Department
has
pointed
out
that
the
noise
from
any
single
person
may
not
violate
the
ordinance
and
that,
while
the
patio
might
collect
a
baby
and
well
well
in
excess
of
the
noise
ordinance
limit,
they're
not
going
to
issue
citations
for
entire
patio
full
of
people.
A
If
we
accept
that
we
have
no
way
of
controlling
the
noise
volume
of
a
large
group
of
people
late
at
night,
then
we
need
to
look
at
other
solutions
to
the
noise
problems
such
as
moving
people
inside
the
ordinance
proposed
by
city
Athens,
City
Council
should
be
enforceable
in
this
respect.
Three
many
people
in
Athens
have
stated
that
they
would
like
Athens
to
be
more
outside
eating.
They
would
like
Athens
to
have
more
outside
eating
spaces,
and
perhaps
the
city
of
Athens
has
an
opportunity
to
encourage
this.
A
Specifically,
the
city
might
look
at
regulations
which
are
more
permissive
towards
outside
eating
establishment.
During
the
day,
the
city
should
recognize
that
most
of
the
noise
problems
after
10:00
p.m.
on
weekdays
and
after
midnight
on
weekends
are
alcohol-related.
The
pad
the
patrons
of
establishments
which
serve
alcohol
are
often
rowdy
and,
as
cordoning
Li
reasonable
for
the
city
to
request
that
the
patrons
of
these
establishments
might
move
indoors
after
three
hours.
A
Of
course,
this
opens
the
question
of
restaurants,
which
serve
wine
and
how
to
differentiate
quiet,
restaurant
from
a
noisy
bar,
but
few
restaurants
are
open
past
10
p.m.
and
a
reasonable
compromise
might
be
to
allow
people
to
remain
unknown
outdoor
patios
after
10
p.m.
or
midnight
on
the
weekends
provided
that
this
Tashlin
stops
serving
alcohol
after
these
hours,
as
this
would
allow
restaurant
patrons
continue
eating
on
outside
patios
after
hours.
What
kind
of
community
does
Athens
want
to
be?
A
C
Read
the
other
okay
plus,
it
is
long
right.
This
one
is
from
my
essay
claudia
gonzalez,
viejo.
They
receive
this
september
17th
through
the
athens
planning
commission.
I
understand
the
following
resolution
will
be
on
the
table
for
decision
section.
23,
o
407
eating
and
drinking
establishments.
Principle
of
building
shall
be
at
least
200
feet
from
any
r1
or
r2
zone.
This
is
conducting
outside
operations
within
200
feet
of
a
residential
zone,
so
cease
operation
outside
operations
at
12
a.m.
on
Friday
and
Saturday
10:00
p.m.
C
on
each
day,
Monday
through
Thursday
I
would
like
to
express
my
great
concern
with
this
rule
that
will
potentially
limit
and
handicap
already
existing
fragile
business,
the
already
existing
fragile
business
community
of
downtown
Athens.
First
of
all,
although
I
am
sympathetic
to
the
problems
to
the
residents
who
live
near
students
and
establishments
that
the
students
visit
face,
I,
don't
I,
don't
believe
that
we
have
the
right
to
limit
normal
activities
of
businesses
such
as
restaurants.
In
order
to
accommodate
a
few
individuals,
the
limit
of
200
feet
is
simply
arbitrary.
C
Why
shouldn't
my
neighborhood
be
protected
from
noise
of
home
250
or
feet
away
or
500
feet?
Clearly,
the
200
feet
is
a
proximity
measure.
However,
as
residents
I
have
I
had
a
choice
in
to
be
in
that
proximity
or
not
of
any
establishment.
That's
limiting
now
what
businesses
can
a
cannot
do,
because
my
proximity
choice
strikes
me
as
very
unreasonable
yeah.
Second,
the
business
community
in
Athens
is
trying
very
hard
to
improve
the
fragile
economic
growth
by
attracting
tourists
to
our
unique
eating
facilities,
art
venues
and
small
RT
stores.
C
How
would
we,
how
were
the
rule
that
shuts
down
nice
outdoor
eating
effect
such
efforts?
It
just
goes
against
any
notion
of
an
interesting
restaurant
experience
there,
most
people
from
out
of
town,
but
that
most
people
from
out
of
town
are
familiar
with
and
would
expect
to
receive
to
place
this
in
context.
How
would
Eastern
Columbus,
which
is
very
near
residence
or
whether
they
short
North,
District
and
Columbus?
Look
with
a
rule.
Thank
you
proposed
the
proposed
1i
please
visit.
C
This
gives
us
website
WS
Short
North
org,
to
see
a
good
example
of
a
nice
marriage
of
eateries
bars,
art
galleries,
shops
and
residential
properties.
This
is
what
many
and
Athens
was
hope
for
our
community.
Third
and
last,
even
as
this
rule
was
a
good
idea,
the
enforcement
of
such
arbitrary
meshes
would
end
up
being
a
nightmare
to
enforce,
given
the
geographic
location
of
many
student
residences
near
residents,
nearby
uptown
and
in
neighborhoods
in
question.
This
ruling
would
result
in
more
perhaps
evil
out
of
house
parties
in
the
long
run.
C
No
inch,
interesting
eating
facility
or
restaurant
would
likely
locate
in
Athens
for
decreasing
the
attraction
of
our
town
and
negatively,
in
fact,
impacting
our
economy
sincerely
Claudia
Gonzalez,
Bo,
Bo,
hey
B,
hey
ho,
excuse
me
PhD
and
again.
This
is
probably
in
response
to
the
zero
303.
Our
ro
308
resolution
council.
A
B
F
This
a
letter
written
audist,
29th,
1984,
mayor
Edward,
Beckett
I,
don't
know
how
many
of
you
all
were
in
town,
even
at
that
time.
Dear
mayor
Beckett,
as
you
know,
I've
been
on
the
Zoning
Board
of
Appeals
for
several
years.
During
that
time,
I've
received
numerous
inquiries
concerning
group
families.
F
They
were
defined
at
that
time
is
not
more
than
three
persons,
not
related
by
blood
marriage
or
adoption
living
together
as
a
housekeeping
unit
in
our
one
areas,
in
other
words,
an
owner
may
rent
his
house
in
an
r1
area
to
three
individuals
who
are
not
related
by
blood.
This
appears
to
me
to
be
contrary
to
the
purpose
of
the
zoning
code.
The
lifestyle
of
those
families
who
choose
to
live
in
an
r1
neighborhood
is
more
often
times
than
not
much
different
from
the
lifestyle
of
the
so-called
group.
Families.
F
I
would
propose
that
the
Planning
Commission
consider
amending
the
code
for
bid
non-owner
occupied
group
families
in
r1
and
perhaps
even
in
r2
zones.
This
would
be
a
strong
step
in
preserving
these
neighborhoods
I
wrote
a
similar
letter
to
the
president
of
council.
I
got
no
response
to
either
letter
and,
of
course,
we
know
what
the
history
has
been
since
1984.
F
F
This
proposed
ordinance
is
based
upon
two
simple
premises.
First,
a
person
has
the
right
to
live
peaceably
in
his
own
home
and,
secondly,
the
activities
of
one
property
owner
should
not
infringe
upon
the
peaceful
enjoyment
of
another
property
owner.
The
outdoor
operations
of
eating
and
drinking
establishment,
after
The
Times
proposed
in
the
ordinance
and
frankly,
in
my
judgment,
even
before
some
of
those
times
is
incompatible.
A
F
F
We
don't
we're
not
looking
at
the
exam,
the
places
that
are
there
now
only
we
need
to
look
at
what's
going
to
happen
to
Family
Dollar
to
those
adjacent
Lots
to
all
the
way
down.
There's
corner
of
Cornwell
and
Stimpson
three
residences
being
marketed
as
commercial
every
residential
owner
on
Simpson
Avenue
would
be
very
happy
to
choose
commercial.
Then,
what's
going
to
happen,
then
with
Morris
Avenue
and
Ohio
Avenue
in
that
I've
been
many
many
arguments
in
many
responses,
but
hopefully
you'll
give
me
the
opportunity
at
some
time.
Thanks.
A
Great
thank
you.
Oh
I
would
also
encourage
the
if
you
feel
that
you
haven't
made
your
point
well
enough,
because
it
is
short
amount
of
time
or
you
want
to
make
further
points.
After
listening
to
people
feel
free
to
write
and
or
email
us
our
emails
on
the
website,
or
we
can
write
it
down,
someplace
and
the,
and
so
that
we
will
also
take
written
written
testimony.
So,
okay,.
E
Okay,
okay,
I'm
on
first
of
all,
I
would
like
to
concur
with
what
mr.
Leatherwood
had
to
say
about
the
proposal
from
City
Council
being
one.
That
is
a
compromise.
That
is
not
everything
that
the
residents
would
like.
Nor
is
it
everything
that
the
club
establishments
and
restaurants
would
would
care
for
either.
E
E
Cut
this
short
I
would
just
like
to
say
that
that
I've
been
an
Athens
residence
since
1968,
and
there
have
been
astounding
changes
in
the
community,
many
of
which
have
been
to
the
detriment
of
the
community
base
here,
meaning
the
families
who
struggle
to
maintain
their
presence
within
neighborhoods
that
are
established,
that
that
make
a
small
town,
what
it
is,
the
ability
to
walk
to
the
schools,
the
ability
to
walk
out
your
door
and
go
uptown
to
enjoy
the
restaurants
or
the
theater.
Or
what
have
you?
However,
if
one
is
allowed
to
exclude
the
rights?
E
The
other
then
we're
moving
in
the
wrong
direction.
I
am
NOT
here
just
for
myself.
I
would
like
to
toot
my
horn
here
and
say
that
that
by
golly
I
even
designed
the
flag
of
the
city,
you
know
it
is
near
and
dear
to
my
hat,
to
my
heart
and
will
remain
so
as
as
a
totality
not
just
as
a
venue
for
people
who
choose
to
be
out
late
at
night,
which
is
great
and
fun
and
fine,
but
with
respect
to
the
other
folks
who
live
here
as
well.
E
G
Hello,
my
name
is
David
Cornwell
I
am
the
owner
of
courtside
pizza
and
a
couple
of
things
I
want
to
make
the
point
of
that.
Jim
talked
about
the
history
of
court,
Street
and
I.
Remember
as
a
child.
This
is
back
in
the
70s
and
80s
and
looking
at
court
Street
as
a
whole.
If
you
looked
at
the
North
Block
of
court
Street,
it
was
nothing
but
vacant
holes
and
businesses
that
basically
didn't
exist.
G
So
if
you
look
at
the
last
ten
years
where
quartzite
has
been
put
in
and
bronies
and
and
there's
numerous
businesses
down
there,
that
didn't
exist
before
so.
The
development,
in
my
opinion,
has
been
nothing
but
positive
and
in
court
Street
is
a
hole,
has
never
looked
better
than
it
has
now
so
I'm
trying
to
decide
is
hearing
everything
is
this?
G
Is
this
a
noise
issue,
or
is
this
a
zoning
issue
because
from
a
noise
standpoint,
one
business,
you
can't
point
the
finger
every
night
and
say
that
bronies
bronies
is
making
all
this
noise
and
one
thing
that
could
happen
with
with
a
shutdown
at
midnight.
If
courtside
and
bronies
say
okay,
all
these
patrons
need
to
come,
don't
go
inside
courtside
or
go
inside
bronies.
First
of
all,
midnight
on
a
Friday
and
Saturday
night,
that's
impossible.
So
these
people
have
to
be
dispersed
somewhere,
so
we
can't
take
them
inside.
G
So
they
basically
have
to
say:
okay
thanks
for
coming,
but
you
guys
are
kicked
out.
You
need
to
go
somewhere
else
and
chances
are
when
they
go
somewhere
else.
It's
gonna
be
not
uptown,
because
by
midnight,
uptown
bars,
you're
packed
and
if
anyone
walks
down
Court
Street
at
midnight
on
a
Saturday
or
Friday
night,
you're,
probably
not
gonna,
disperse
400
people
or
300
people
into
other
bars.
So
the
majority
of
our
customers,
I,
can
tell
you
live
on
the
north
block
of
Court
Street
Congress
Street
Franklin
Groves
nur
Palmer
place.
G
So
if
you
want
to
shuttle
three
400
people
out,
the
house
party's
at
midnight
I
think
it's.
This
gonna
just
make
the
noise
issue
even
worse.
So
we
control
we
do
everything
we
can
to
control
noise
issues
ie.
We
did
surveys
at
courtside,
the
last
two
nights
to
find
basically
our
customers,
our
tenants
that
live
above
courtside
and
on
our
patio
and
I
had
surveys
and
I
have
I
can
show
him
stack.
G
I
have
700
names,
though
we
did
in
two
days
and
half
of
them
live
in
in
corner
rentals
at
85
North
Court,
so
they
would
be
if
they
would
be
unhappy
to
see
our
patio
get
limited
in
operation,
so
I'm
sure
everyone
else
would
too
so
other
than
it.
Obviously
the
East
Side
group
so
I'm
sure
people
can
add
to
that.
But
that's
right,
Stan
are.
H
I
Name
is
Bob,
Satmar
am
from
Oh
Betty's
and
I
just
wanted
to
say
a
couple
things
because
you
know
we're
part
of
the
situation.
I
think
probably,
most
importantly
well,
I'm
very
excited
that
you
know
these
issues
are
being
addressed,
hopefully
to
everyone's
benefit
in
both
long
term
or
short
term.
But
my
concern
is
that
normally,
as
a
group
of
people,
we
tend
to
not
think
clearly
or
focused
on
the
specific
issue
and
like
it
was
already
mentioned.
I
I
think
that's
really
important,
for
the
for
all
of
us
is
to
focus
on
what
is
specifically
the
issue
if
it's
a
noise
or
if
it's
noise
problem
or
is
it
dining
outdoors,
because
these
are
things
that
need
to
be
addressed.
However,
as
indicated
in
the
very
first
letter,
read
and
I'm,
not
sure
if
it's
true
or
not
I
see
two
specific
issues
here,
one
is
the
noise
problem
and
if
there
indeed
is
the
refusal
to
enforce
the
noise
ordinances
by
the
organization
in
charge
and
I
think
that's
the
problem.
I
If
people
are
making
noise
unruly
and
loud
inappropriately,
then
they
should
be,
let
it
be
known
that
they
have
to
cease
and
desist.
You
know
or
they'll,
be
fine
as
far
as
outside
dining
we
have
tables
and
chairs
outside
we
bring
in
or
earlier
because
of
we're
on
a
sidewalk
and
late
at
night.
It
does
get
messy.
I
will
not
deny
that,
but
I
do
think
that
outdoor
seating
and
dining
is
a
separate
issue
from
the
noise
issue
which
needs
to
be
addressed.
I
However,
I
would
really
excited
about
the
dining
issue
being
addressed
too,
because
I
envision
also
like
the
Short
North.
You
know
nice
gallery
stroll
kind
of
place,
but
that
may
be
hard
to
pull
off
in,
like
you
know,
University
wham-bam,
but
I
just
hope
that
everyone
tries
to
stay
focused
on
exactly
what
the
issue
is
and
define
that
which
I
think
is
a
noise
issue
that
should
be
enforced.
That's
I
think
all
I
have
to
say
thanks.
Thank.
A
A
J
Hi,
my
name
is
Chris
Playa
I'm,
going
to
read
because
I'm
bad
at
winging.
It
I
like
the
David
Bowie
quote
there
I
own
donkey,
coffee
and
I'm
troubled
with
the
direction
that
we're
going
with
this
issue,
I'm
disturbed
with
bronies
and
their
lack
of
responsibility
that
they're
taking
it
was
troubling
to
read
about
this
problem
before
it
directly
involved
me
and
now,
I'm
upset
because
of
the
lack
of
responsibility
that
affects
me.
J
Donkey
has
been
operating
for
six
years,
with
six
tables
outside
and
generally
have
about
twenty
to
twenty
four
customers
from
10
o'clock
at
night
until
1:00
a.m.
in
the
morning,
we're
usually
a
capacity
until
1:00
a.m.
and
our
clientele
are
very
quiet.
They
mostly
study
they
talk
a
little
bit
and
they
make
little
noise
at
all
and
they
love
those
outside
tables
and
usually
there's
not
enough
seating
inside
and
that's
partly
why
we
have
them
outside
as
well.
J
Although
it's
really
nice
on
nights
that
we've
been
having
lately,
there's
actually
much
more
noise
that
comes
from
our
student
neighborhoods
across
Congress
than
comes
from
our
place
way.
Worse
to
my
knowledge,
we've
never
had
a
problem
with
noise
because
of
our
outside
tables,
now
to
make
a
law
that
will
affect
us
and
anyone
else,
because
many
of
us
have
an
issue
with
one
or
two
businesses,
uptown
that
are
right
next
to
the
residential
neighborhood
that
they're
abusing
this
is
not
I.
J
Don't
think
it's
good
lawmaking,
in
my
opinion,
I'm
confused
as
to
why
this
has
come
to
this
I.
Don't
think
it's
a
good
solution!
I
may
not
have
all
the
facts,
but
it
seems
to
me
that
opening
an
outdoor
nighttime
patio
with
drinking
right
next
to
a
residential
neighborhood
without
willing
to
go
the
extra
mile
to
keep
the
noise
down,
is
simply
poor
judgment
and
falls
very
short
of
being
a
good
neighbor.
J
My
opinion
is
that
bronys
has
not
lived
up
to
their
civic
responsibility
by
blatantly
breaking
the
law
night
after
night
by
not
adhering
to
the
already
established
noise
ordinance,
so
I'm
confused
if
we
have
an
ordinance
in
place
already
shut
them
down.
If
you
get
another
complaint,
find
them
move
everyone
in
for
good
until
they
take
steps
to
keep
the
noise
down.
My
understanding
is
that
the
noise
would
drop
considerably
if
there
were
a
roll-down
canopy
above
the
outside
tables,
being
a
sound
person
myself.
J
That
would
be
true
that
would
cut
down
considerably
the
noise
and
it
seems
to
me
like
that,
could
be
done
and
I
believe
it's
been
proposed
to
them,
have
bronies
take
responsibility
instead
of
making
a
law
that
affects
an
establishment
like
mine.
That
has
not
had
any
good
neighbor
issues
with
this
issue.
I
actually
want
to
see
more
tables
outside
and
more
patios
uptown
I
love,
the
European
feel
that
it
brings
and
I
think
it's
good
for
business
and
I
think
it's
good
for
our
community.
J
So
can
we
please
figure
out
what
to
do
without
punishing
other
businesses
for
lack
of
responsibility
and
poor
judgment
of
another
business?
We
look
to
you
guys
to
make
ordinance
and
laws
that
make
sense
and
our
fair
I
don't
believe
that
this
would
be
fair
and
I,
don't
believe
it
makes
sense.
My
business
would
be
greatly
affected
by
this
law,
as
with
others
and
future
businesses
that
desired
have
outside
seating.
J
K
H
A
You
and
this
no,
this
is
concerning
the
noise
ordinance
I'll
tell
I'll
I'll
obscure
you
in
when
you
get
up.
L
I'm
Kim,
Goldsberry
and
I
wrote
a
letter
to
the
City,
Council
members
and
I
believe
I
copied
the
mayor
on
this.
In
regard
to
the
ordinance
that's
being
addressed,
I
was
just
going
to
read
that
today.
I'm
writing.
In
regard
to
the
issue
before
council
discussing
the
North
Court
Street
businesses
in
their
patio
areas,
the
Athens
uptown
businesses
are
doing
a
great
job
to
improve
the
exterior
uniqueness
and
business
opportunities
in
the
Athens
area.
The
residents
of
Athens
enjoy
having
a
new
and
different
opportunities
for
dining
and
socializing
with
friends,
family
and
business
associates.
L
L
We
live
near
a
number
of
things
that
we
can
hear
a
number
of
things
that
take
place
around
town
Athens,
including
Ohio
University
band,
practicing
the
announcer
during
football
games,
the
Athens,
County,
Fair
and
other
activities
shutting
down
the
patios
and
businesses
that
are
making
an
effort
to
bring
unique
and
different
dining
and
socializing
opportunities
is
not
fair.
If
you
go
to
the
trouble
of
doing
away
with
one
outdoor
activity,
where
is
it
going
to
end?
Is
it
right
to
punish
the
one
end
of
court
Street
and
not
the
other
areas
of
town?
L
All
outdoor
patio
areas
are
near
homes
and
neighborhoods,
including
Station
Street,
the
Maplewood
tavern
and
other
businesses.
Therefore,
how
can
counsel
rule
against
a
few
and
not
have
equal
treatment
for
all
taxpaying
businesses
in
the
city
of
Athens
closing
the
patios
will
be
doing
a
disservice
to
several
area,
business
owners,
residents
and
visitors
to
our
community.
We
know
for
a
fact:
the
out-of-town
business
exec
and
owners
bring
clients
to
Athens
and
visit
one
or
two
of
these
different
patio
areas
that
are
being
discussed.
L
The
success
of
these
businesses
is
far
more
important
to
the
success
of
offense
County
than
the
complaint
of
a
few
neighbors.
When
purchasing
our
home,
we
recognize
the
advantages
and
disadvantages
of
living
so
close
to
town
and
we
still
chose
to
live
there
as
a
homeowner
and
a
taxpayer.
We
feel
that
keeping
the
patios
it
open
is
the
right
choice
for
the
residents
of
Athens
the
area
businesses
in
the
future
of
Athens.
L
C
A
M
My
name
is
Joel
Jackman
I'm,
the
Managing
Partner
of
skippers,
Bar
&
Grill
and
the
blue
Gator.
A
lot
of
my
comments
have
been
mentioned
already
at
this
time.
Skippers
does
have
a
patio.
It
is
not
in
the
area,
but
I
would
fear
if
this
was
to
continue
where
the
ordinance
or
amendments
might
stop,
and
would
my
patio
at
one
day
at
one
point
be
considered
for
such
legislation
down
the
road.
I
would
like
to
make
a
comment
in
regards
to
that
we
have
the
sound
ordinance
in
place.
M
I
know
it's
been
said,
but
I
questioned
if
the
first
letter
that
you
read
is
correct
that
the
chief
at
this
time,
I,
stated
that
he
cannot
enforce
it
at
a
patio.
How
can
we
enforce
it
on
student
patio
in
somebody's
house,
but
we
can't
enforce
it
on
a
patio
in
a
business
and
where
the
difference
lies
there
I
know,
unfortunately
many
students
that
I've
talked
to
how
it
has
been
enforced
at
their
property
and
not
at
another.
One
I
would
ask
once
again
that
you
know
restrictions
business
restrictions.
M
M
M
The
last
comment:
I
guess
I'd
like
to
make
is,
is
some
what
has
been
said
as
well.
I
believe
once
again,
we're
reacting
and
we're
not
being
proactive,
we're
being
reactive,
I
hate
to
see
if
nine
five
percent
of
these
complaints
are
being
lodged
against
one
business
that
our
council,
our
city,
would
stand
up
and
define
and
pass
legislation
because
of
one
business
legislation
that
is
going
to
affect
a
lot
of
people.
M
A
lot
of
businesses,
a
lot
of
clients
due
to
one
business,
and
we
can't
deal
with
just
the
one
business
and
the
solution
and
also
I'm
just
curious,
and
maybe
a
comment
can
be,
could
be
made
back
as
to
if
this
ordinance
would
not
usurp
the
state
law.
If
state
law
allows
me
on
my
patio
to
serve
alcohol
out
of
suit
to
a
certain
time
and
the
state
has
come
evaluated,
my
patio
said
because
I
have
a
liquor
license.
A
K
N
Good
afternoon
I'm
Michael
Weiser
I
live
at
60,
Fairview
and
I.
For
the
past
10
years,
I
lived
at
24
Fairview.
We
get
a
considerable
amount
of
noise
up
on
the
hill,
but
I,
but
to
single
out
the
businesses.
I
think
is
the
wrong
way
to
go.
I.
Think
enforcement
of
the
noise
ordinance
is
the
right
thing
to
be
doing.
I
think
to
penalize
the
businesses
because
they
are
being
focused
upon
is
the
wrong
thing.
N
N
Legislatively
my
sister
wrote
a
letter
and
I'd
like
to
read.
It
I
feel
that
I
must
write
in
opposition
to
the
proposed
ordinance
to
require
a
curfew
for
establishments
on
the
north
block
of
Court
Street.
If
past
patrons
will
be
required
to
take
the
business
inside
we've
already
gone
through
the
times,
I
understand
that
the
alleged
problem
is
noise.
N
The
assumption
appears
that,
if
it
appears
to
be
that
restaurants
with
outside
seating
and
dining,
are
the
cause
for
excessive
noise,
if
impacted
listeners
feel
that
noise
has
reached
in
an
excessive
level,
they
should
contact
local
authorities
enforcing
laws
and
ordinances
that
already
exist
should
be
the
method
employed
to
discourage
and
deal
with
excessive
noise.
The
other
issue
here
is
that
you
intend
to
penalize
businesses
that
have
invested
in
wonderful
outside
areas
for
their
profit
and
our
enjoyment.
Those
businesses
are
doing
a
good
thing.
N
There
are
so
many
other
events,
venues,
neighbors,
etc
that
cause
excessive
noise
in
this
town,
if
patrons
get
loud
or
unruly
than
it
is
the
responsibility
of
the
owners
management
to
make
sure
that
those
patrons
abide
by
the
law
not
pass
a
new
one.
If
owners
ignore
that
responsibility,
then
their
businesses
should
be
cited.
Just
as
past
Monday
night
I
informed,
my
responsible
adult
friends
enjoyed
our
pizza
dinner
at
the
courtside
courtyard.
It
was
a
gorgeous
evening
and
I
want
to
be
able
to
continue
enjoying
those
kinds
of
dinner
and
dining
experiences.
N
Let's
quit
penalizing
responsible
owner
business
owners
and
law-abiding
citizens
and
enforce
the
laws
that
are
on
the
books,
treating
the
responsible
Edison's
like
the
lowest-common-denominator
hooligan,
isn't
better
government
I
live
straight
up
the
hill
from
the
end
of
Court
Street
I
do
not
feel
that
an
excessive
amount
of
noise
is
travelling
up
the
hill
and
find
this
effort
to
be
frivolous
waste
of
time.
We
should
celebrate
the
folks
operating
good
businesses
in
this
town.
O
Also
I
am
the
chair
of
the
Athens
uptown
Business
Association
I'm,
a
member
of
the
Athens
Restaurant
Association
and
I'm,
also
a
local
business
owner
on
Court
Street,
so
I'll
kind
of
speak
in
those
three
terms
in
terms
of
the
Athens
uptown
Business
Association.
This
has
been
an
issue
that
we
have
discussed
briefly
at
our
meetings.
The
opinion
of
most
of
our
members
is:
is
we
don't
like
to
see
any
ordinance
that
might
discourage
or
hinder
business
in
our
Uptown
area?
O
As
one
of
the
letters
stated,
we
are,
we
consider
ourselves,
not
a
PI
I,
don't
want
to
say
fragile,
but
we
are
a
growing
area.
We
are
constantly
fighting
the
new
developments
on
East,
8th
Street,
the
developments
from
Ohio
University,
and
we
need
to
have
that
type
of
development
on
Court
Street
to
survive.
It's
important
that
we
have
our
nighttime
areas,
it's
important
that
the
students
want
to
be
in
our
Uptown
area,
so
as
for
the
Uptown
Business
Association.
O
Unfortunately,
we
would
not
like
to
see
this
passed
in
terms
of
the
development
in
terms
of
the
vibrancy
of
the
Uptown
area,
the
Restaurant
Association.
Obviously,
we
also
feel
that
we
would
not
like
to
see
this
our
restaurants
again,
especially
our
locally
owned
restaurants.
We
are
constantly
battling
to
fight
against
the
chains
and
they're
coming
every
year.
We
see
more
and
more
so
we
would.
We
also
would
oppose
this
as
a
local
business
owner.
O
I
have
to
say
that,
unfortunately,
I
would
oppose
it
also
just
for
the
same
reason
that
it
helps
I
have
outside
tables
my
selves,
we're
not
open
that
way,
but
if
we
would
want
to
be,
we
need
to
have
that
opportunity
just
for
that.
As
for
the
development
side,
I
can
certainly
understand.
Mr.
celery's
point
I
can
understand
where
people
are
worried
about
the
development
as
for
outside
eating
and
dining.
O
It
is
this
restaurant
owners
opinion
and
this
mine
only
I
don't
want
to
speak
for
everybody
that
this
town
couldn't
sustain
another
outside
eating
and
drinking
establishment
on
Simpson
and
any
developer.
Any
restaurant
entrepreneur
that
thought
about
putting
something
there
would
be
crazy.
The
the
market
is
tough,
it
is
a
hard
business
and
right
now
what
student
would
walk
all
the
way
down
there,
as
opposed
to
just
going
on
Court
Street
I
I,
don't
see
that
happening
in
my
protein.
That's
just
my
opinion.
O
Also
in
my
personal
opinion,
I
think
it's
important
for
the
members
of
this
group,
members
of
City
Council
on
anybody
concerned
to
take
a
nap
tonight,
take
a
nap
tomorrow
and
be
out
on
Court
Street
at
1:00
a.m.
beyond
the
end
of
court
Street.
This
is
not
something
I
normally
do
the
last
weekend,
I
had
the
opportunity
I
found
myself
walking
home
as
a
as
a
person
who
just
moved
to
South
Shannon
Street
was
able
to
walk
home
at
1:00
in
the
morning.
I
made
a
specific
point.
Knowing
this
issue
has
been
addressed
to
me.
O
F
O
O
It
is
my
opinion
that
if
you
close
these
patios
you're
going
to
increase
those
house
parties
and
they're
going
to
be
right
in
your
neighborhoods
and
that's
something
I
would
not
want
to
see
I
would
I
would
rather
see
students
on
Court
Street,
as
opposed
to
in
your
neighborhoods
at
parties
on
Court
Street.
We
have
bouncers,
we
have
police
that
are
much
closer,
which
brings
up
the
point
of
the
police.
We
already
have
a
understaffed,
overstretched
police
force.
How
are
they
going
to
enforce
this?
O
How
are
they
now,
if
we
disperse
all
these
students
in
the
house
parties,
the
enforcement
now
in
my
opinion,
gets
even
worse
and
are
we
asking
our
police
to
then
and
also
enforce
every
person
that
wants
to
sit
outside
at
a
table
to
stop
at
every
restaurant
Monday
through
Friday,
Saturday
and
Sunday,
and
enforce
that
also
I?
Think
that's
a
question
for
the
police
chief,
but
something
that
should
be
answer.
I
appreciate
the
time.
P
A
P
A
Q
Ahead
start
I'm
here
on
behalf
of
bronies
LLC.
The
operator
of
bronies
common
misperception,
apparently
shared
by
a
number
of
speakers,
is
that
they
have
been
in
violation
in
the
noise
ordinance.
Bronies
has
had
the
police
called
more
than
once.
There
is
a
noise
ordinance
in
effect,
and
they
have
never
been
found
to
be
in
violation
of
it.
Mister
ciliary
is
probably
right.
We
need
planning,
but
this
isn't
planning,
but
I
think
mr.
Cornwall
hits
it
on
the
head.
Is
this
about
zoning
or
noise?
If
it's
about
noise
it
needs
to
be
citywide.
Q
You've
already
got
an
ordinance.
Several
references
has
been
made.
It
just
doesn't
do
anything
about
house
parties
in
the
Rays
residential
neighborhoods.
It
does
not
limit
the
vast
majority
of
the
city.
As
such,
it
becomes
spot
zoning
which
is
illegal.
It's
also
a
regulatory
taking
for
each
of
these
businesses
that
will
be
effective
and
I
would
urge
you
to
consult
with
mr.
Q
Lang,
because
the
Ohio
case
law,
especially
over
the
last
five
to
ten
years,
is
very
clear
that
to
have
a
regulatory
taking,
there
must
be
compensation
and
to
curtail
some
of
these
businesses,
possibly
to
the
point
they're
out
of
business.
The
of
serious
economic
consequences
to
this
city
to
have
a
valid
regulatory
taking
there
have
to
be
overriding.
Q
Is
the
term
used
health
and
safety
issues,
and
so
far,
I've
not
seen
or
heard
of
anybody
express
an
overriding
health
or
safety
issue
that
would
allow
the
city
to
place
this
type
of
regulatory
zoning
upon
a
small
portion
of
the
city
and
touch
I'm
glad
mr.
chakra
I
think
was
that
brought
it
up.
I
think
that
you
should
consult
mr.
Q
lang
because
the
for
a
number
of
these
businesses-
they
are
state
permitted,
state
inspected
and
the
hours
are
set
according
to
state
law,
and
it
would
be
the
position
I
think
of
every
permit
holder
that
city
regulations,
especially
when
it's
appears
to
be
an
attempt
to
regulate
noise
through
spot
zoning,
cannot
and
should
not
Trump
a
valid
state
law.
Thank
you.
R
Technologies
Christy
male
of
the
second
letter
you
wrote
red
was
for
my
wife,
dr.
Gonzales,
supporting
outdoor
dining
in
Athens
and
I.
Do
understand.
There's
a
problem
with
noise
and
I
think
the
noise
ordinance
should
be
enforced
and
not
pass
a
law
restricting
businesses
not
to
operate
after
ten
o'clock.
I
am
owner
of
a
small
business
or
on
Court
Street.
It
is
a
struggle,
do
have
a
business
on
code
Street
and
when,
when
new
businesses
come
into
town,
it
helps
us
a
lot
by
passing
laws
like
this.
R
What
you're
doing
is
you're
restricting
entrepreneurs
moving
down
to
add
two
coats
or
to
God
Street
and
opening
businesses,
because
when
they
start
a
business,
they
don't
you
didn't,
have
this
law
and
if
you
go
ahead
and
pass
laws
when
they
are
operating
it,
it
reduces
their
revenue,
so
I
support
outdoor
dining
and
I'm,
hoping
that
you
will
not
pass
this
law
and
enforce
a
noise
ordinance
to
take
care
of
the
problem.
Thank
you.
S
Dear
Athens
Planning
Commission
I
am
unable
to
attend
the
Planning
Commission
hearing
today
regarding
the
proposed
legislation
to
limit
the
hours
of
outdoor
seating
in
the
B
to
D
zone
business
zone.
However,
I
wanted
to
state
the
Athens
County
Convention
and
Visitor's
Bureau
position
on
this
subject.
The
AC
AC
CVB
is
not
in
favor
of
limiting
outdoor
seating
types
of
businesses
in
the
B
to
Z
zone
when
it
comes
to
the
activities
of
visitors
to
Athens,
County
shopping
and
dining
are
the
clear
winners
for
Court
Street.
S
In
particular,
almost
50
million
dollars
in
direct
economic
impact
was
generated
by
Athens
County
restaurants
and
retail
shops
in
2007.
Limiting
their
opportunities
to
capitalise
on
the
activities
of
both
visitors
and
local
residents,
especially
with
the
influx
of
chain
and
franchise.
Restaurants
and
shops
could
mean
a
downturn
in
business
for
those
in
the
area.
Decreased
business
means
decreased
tax
income,
because
visitors
play
such
a
strong
role
in
our
local
economy.
The
ACC
VB
feels
we
should
be
looking
at
more
opportunities
to
capture
their
dollars.
S
The
proposed
legislation
to
limit
the
hours
of
outdoor
seating
is
not
a
step
in
this
direction
and
I
wholeheartedly
believe
that
that
page
has
has
really
hit
the
head.
On
the
nail.
A
couple
of
weeks
ago,
I
wrote
up
a
piece
on
the
economic
impact
of
of
tourism
on
our
local
economy
and
obviously
the
restaurants
play
a
big.
You
know
a
big
part
of
that
and
I
do
understand.
The
noise
portion
and
I
think
it's
been
said
a
hundred
times,
I
mean
is
it?
Is
it
noise
or
is
it
zoning?
S
And
how
do
we
deal
with
that?
And
it
would
be
through
enforcement?
You
know
the
chamber
is:
is
always
supportive
of
Uptown
businesses
and
to
you
know
I'm
actually,
Chris
was
talking
about.
Excuse
me
before
you
point
out
that
had
been
talking
about
the
European
feel
about
door.
Seating
I
believe
that
that
some
of
us
stay
up
late
and
enjoy
having
that
European
feel
late
at
night.
S
You
know
and
being
able
to
be
outside
and
enjoy
that
and-
and
there
are
some
who
are
very
respectful
and
understanding
of
neighbors,
and
there
are
others
who
who
other
people
I
should
say.
Who
don't
have
that
that
same
attitude?
But
that's
a
personal
attitude.
It's
not
necessarily
a
business
promoting
that
particular
view.
So,
with
that
I'd
like
to
wrap
up
my
comments
and
thank
the
Planning
Commission
for
having
a
public
hearing
on
this.
C
A
K
K
Minutes
what
three
minutes
three
minutes
I
was
here
when
the
original
noise
ordinance
was
adopted.
We
had
a
representative
from
the
police
department
and
I
said
to
him.
I
was
not
a
council
member
I
was
nothing
like
that.
I
was
just
a
concerned
person
is
this
enforceable
and
he
said
yes
now
I
could
give
you
an
hour
lecture
about
enforcement.
I
had
listened
carefully
as
much
as
I.
Could
I
usually
do
my
homework
better
than
I
could
today,
I
was
delayed,
I
apologize
for
interrupting
you
now.
K
There
are
two
issues
here,
not
one
they're.
Actually,
three
bronies
is
one
the
parties
in
the
neighborhoods
another,
and
this
ordinance
here
about
the
businesses
and
I,
don't
know
who
the
lady
is,
because
you
you
the
ladies
that
wrote
the
letter
as
a
lady
here
I
want
to
compliment
her
because
I
read
it
carefully
and
she
makes
some
very
good
points.
K
K
One
of
the
problems
is
that
this
it
gets
too
crowded
when
you're,
walking
and
I've
seen
women
with
children
going
up
and
down.
But
let
me
tell
you
something
else:
the
most
courteous
people
to
me
before
I
ever
use
canes
were
people
on
Court
Street
that
were
waiting
in
line
were
coming
out
of
a
bar.
The
party
issue
is
another
one.
The
problem
is
for
years.
When
mayor
henryka
was
here,
she
gave
a
statistic:
they
had
the
port
noise
ordinance
passed.
She
says
how
many
people
do
you
think
have
complained
in
six
months.
K
They
gave
a
number
then
she
said
she
was
going
to
tell
you.
She
did
tell
you.
She
said
out
of
that
many.
How
many
do
you
think
it
was
student,
two
complaining
against
student
and
townspeople
against
student,
the
vast
majority
of
her
students
against
students,
students,
like
the
study
I,
do
not
understand
why
the
owners
can't
control
the
noise.
I
disagree
with
mr.
Wharton
at
times,
but
he
he
knows
he
can
control
the
noise
landlords
can
control
the
noise
in
apartments
by
writing,
analyse
and
about
the
noise.
K
K
The
enforcement
of
the
ordinance
is
the
issue.
The
city
complains.
They
don't
have
money.
Let
them
find
the
money
I'm
in
favor
of
the
way
they
do
up
to
the
dead
donkey
place.
They're
the
most
curtain,
I
walk
past
there.
They
invite
me
to
come
in
I've,
never
been
in
a
place.
I
need
to
get
a
parking
meter
fixed
to
come
to
a
meeting
I
given
the
money
they
do
it.
C
K
K
Have
a
general
rule
that
you
can't
disturb
the
peace,
regardless
of
the
noise
ordinance
I,
think
the
times
are
reasonable
if
we
have
good
owners,
but
remember
these
owners
will
change
in
the
people
that
are
talking
today
may
not
be
the
same
ones
down
the
line,
and
it
goes
with
the
property.
No,
it
goes
with
the
individual.
Thank.
T
C
A
It
you
know
by
being
publicly
on
the
television
give
us
a
letter.
T
T
A
A
U
H
A
If
there's
a
no
more
public
comment,
then
I
would
call
this
public
hearing
closed.
If
you
have
other
people
who
couldn't
make
it
today
and
such
that
want
to
put
in
where
you
know,
we
will
discuss
this
at
our
next
meeting
and
I.
You
know
I,
don't
know
if
we
all
come
to
a
vote
on
it
depend
on
how
much
discussion
will
be
there
encourage
people
to
write
to
the
Planning
Commission
to
put
in
their
comments
about
this
issue.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
coming.
F
D
A
Communications,
we
have
to
communication
on
the
agenda,
the
University
of
State's
project
timeline.
That's
why
you're
here
and
the
love
tall
company,
Blackburn
subdivision
one.
A
H
A
V
B
C
A
D
D
A
B
I'm
sure
everyone's
familiar
with
our
project,
we
now
have
26
single-family
residence
homes
up
there.
We
have
11
buildings
of
condo
for
unit
condo
buildings
and
with
a
clubhouse
and
we're
proud
of
what
we've
done
so
far
of
the
26
houses
up
there.
You
can't
see
that
anybody
even
lives
on
the
hill.
Unfortunately,
the
previous
owners
at
route,
62
route,
682
I've,
done
a
lot
of
clearing
before
we
took
over
and
we
always
slowly
try
to
remedy
that.
B
We've
started
our
residential
phase
to
the
curbs
went
down
last
week
and
now
we're
putting
gravel
down
there's
just
a
little
bit
of
update
of
what
we're
we've
been
doing.
I
came
to
Paula
I
think,
probably
a
month
ago
now,
with
timeline
of
how
I
saw
things
that
need
to
need
to
go
through
the
process
and
one
of
the
reasons
I
did.
That
is.
B
We
have
a
lot
of
firms
that
have
come
to
us
that
want
to
joint
venture
or
project
with
us
or
multifamily
that
the
very
first
question
they
ask
is
how
long
and
how
hard
will
it
be
for
us
to
get
through
the
system?
You
know,
and
then
they
want
to
know
what
are
the
steps
and,
what's
the
timeline,
so
I
prepared
this
little
handout
that
I
this
everyone
has
one
that
victors.
B
So
you
have
to
time
everything-
and
this
is
the
way
that
I
see
our
situation
as
we
go
forward
on
any
future
multifamily
or
anything
to
do
with
the
PUD
on
our
project
and
Paula
suggested
that
I
come
to
the
meeting
and
just
present
this,
and
that
way
we
got
everybody
in
one
room
to
discuss
it.
So
that's
my
spiel
Paul
I,
don't.
B
B
B
A
B
A
With
the
Planning
Commission,
you
know
we
can,
we
know
what
we
need.
So
if
we
you
know
according
to
what
we
see
as
the
requirements.
However,
the
tree
Commission,
you
may
go
in
front
of
the
tree
Commission
with
your
plans
and
they
may
say:
oh
you
need
you
know,
you
don't
have
this
and
this
so
could
you
please
provide
it.
We,
you
know
it'd
be
good
to
do
you
understand.
You
know
we
can't
talk
for
the
other
Commission's.
A
U
B
Both
you
know,
I've
been
before
them
quite
a
few
times,
and
both
of
them
are
very
helpful
and
that's,
usually
it's
not
so
much
a
hearing
as
it's
a
work
session
and
you
work.
You
know
the
disabilities.
A
lot
of
the
buildings
public
buildings
are
commanded
by
the
state,
so
you're
pretty
well
covered
before
you
go
into
those
meetings.
D
Another
question
I
have
Lance
is
when
you
say,
November,
6
public
hearing,
if
needed,
by
Planning
Commission,
and
then
you
start
through
the
council
committee.
Then
you've
got
another
public
hearing,
that's
my
understanding.
They
would
want
to
post
any
public
hearing
for
30
days,
similar
to
what
we
did
here
today.
Right.
R
A
B
Been
on
some
of
the
things
that
I've
been
through
in
the
past
and
that
the
Planning
Commission
stage
they've
chose
to
waive
the
public
hearing,
because
at
the
next
council
meeting
they'd
follow
right
up
with
a
public
hearing,
so
it's
kind
of
repetitious
on.
Sometimes
sometimes
we
didn't
so
you
know
it.
B
The
proposal
is
and
what
are
involved
in
it
yeah
some
things
are
more
cut
and
dry
than
regular
things
and
and
I
realize,
on
the
public
hearing
and
especially
I
put
the
public
hearing
and
a
first
reading
the
council,
together
to
that,
may
or
may
not
happen
that
way,
yeah
but
I'm
just
trying
to
get
you
know
in
the
ballpark
to
when
I
talk
to
these
people.
I
can
say
you
know
if
the
world
was
perfect.
This
would
be
the
schedule
okay.
B
A
B
Paul,
if
I
understand
the
wellhead
protection,
if
you're
building
in
the
wellhead
protection
and
obviously
that's
part
of
it
mm-hmm
I
looked
at
these
multa
are
the
multifamily
projects
that
I
had
in
mind
are
all
on
the
ridge.
You
know
if
we
do
do
something
down
per
se
on
an
arm
need
row
to
the
Gulf
villas
or
something
you
know.
Okay,
obviously,.
A
Thing
about
something
like
this
is
that
it
shouldn't
be
construed
as
something
legally
binding
between
us
either
I
mean
we
understand.
You
know
that
later.
If
it
comes
up
that
the
public
hearing,
that
something
is
really
controversy
or-
and
we
have
so
many
people
at
a
public
hearing
we
have
to
over-
you
know
put
it
over
to
another
public
hearing.
We
don't
want
that
to
be
construed
as
us.
You
know
going
up
against
something.
That's
you
know
that
you
see
is
set
in
stone
right.
B
B
That-
and
that
tells
me
probably
we
shouldn't
been
doing
it-
you
know
it
might
not
have
been
a
good
idea
or
we
didn't
inform
you
and
give
you
enough
details
to
make
a
decision.
So
you
know
that
kind
of
stuff
like
will
explain
anybody
that
I'm
working
with
you
know-
and
that
was
part
of
the
agreement
we
have
with
the
city
that
there's
steps
in
there,
that
we
follow
about
communication
and
I.
Think
it's
four
or
five
steps.
B
We
go
through
the
city,
it's
not
even
part
of
this
and
with
a
change
over
the
administration
and
completely
you
know
new
faces.
We
have
no
complaints
because
we've
been
communicating
very
well,
you
know,
and
especially
the
workers
that
come
out
and
inspect
and
all
that.
So
those
are
the
issues
I'm
just
trying
to
help
myself
present
to
a
prospective
investor
or
something
I.
D
B
H
H
V
Love
doll,
I'm,
the
owner
and
developer
of
the
blackboard
abouts
Blackburn
Woods
subdivision,
because
and
I
think.
As
you
know,
when
you
completed
that
subdivision
a
couple
of
years
ago,
and
at
the
time
we
came
up
with
the
original
plans,
we
were
asked
to
show
how
any
adjoining
lands
might
be
considered
in
the
future.
And
if
you
look
on
the
plat
there
there's
a
large
section
because
to
the
right
or
the
bottom
of
the
map,
depending
which
way
it's
oriented.
It
just
says
future
development
and
we
looked
at
several
options
of
that.
V
At
one
time
we
were
going
to
bring
in
a
road
from
Kate's
Agnos
property.
Another
time
we're
going
to
bring
in
a
road
from
our
Larsen's
lane
on
Blackburn
woods
and
the
more
we
looked
into
it,
the
less
feasible
that
is,
it's
pretty
expensive
to
build
that
kind
of
infrastructure
nowadays,
and
also
it's
pretty
disruptive
to
the
area.
It's
a
nice
wooded
area
and
we
want
to
really
maintain
it
as
best
we
can
in
its
present
state.
So
our
pleasant
present
plans
really
would
involve
splitting
that
12
acres
into
two
fairly
large
Lots.
V
They
would
be
split
along
a
natural
ravine,
the
acreage
on
guesstimated
there,
but
one
and
in
the
five
or
six
acre-sized
and
the
other
in
the
six
or
seven
acre
size
and
I,
talked
to
Paul
Lowe's
a
little
bit
about
that,
and
he
said
perhaps
you
know
my
best.
You
know
opportunity
would
be
to
talk
to
you
a
little
bit
about
it
and
particularly
about
the
way
to
proceed.
V
You
know
one
I
think
I
would
like
to
get
from
you
whether
you're
you
know
amenable
to
this
basic
concept
is
splitting
that
acreage
into
two
lots
and
then
secondly,
would
be
the
actual
direction
that
the
split
would
take,
whether
in
one
sense
you
know
its
treated
as
just
a
lot
split,
with
a
variance
on
the
one
lot
that
doesn't
have
road
frontage
or
whether
this
has
to
be
a
full
formal
amendment
of
the
plat
and
that's
you
know.
My
purpose
is
being
here
today:
I'd
like
to
kind
of
get
you
thinking
on
those
points.
V
V
All
the
buyers
of
Lots
in
the
subdivision
know
that
that
Lane
may
ultimately
be
used
for
an
access
I,
think
it
says
in
the
deed
restrictions
for
three
to
four
homes,
and
it
says
also
in
the
deed
restrictions
that
the
homeowners
are
aware,
that
it
may
be
for
a
Phase
two
of
the
Blackburn
Woods
subdivision,
or
it
simply
may
be
for
other
development.
So
that's
I
think
if
we
took
this
as
the
lot
split
with
the
variance
you
just
fall
into
that
other
development
realm.
D
W
W
C
D
V
H
D
A
D
H
V
V
Well,
I
think
either
way
there
will
be.
You
know
the
same
basic
amount
of
surveyor
and
I
guess
you
know
if
if
the
plat
were
amended,
the
question
I
have
you
know
is
how
much
detail
we
would
have
to
get
into
whether
the
survey
would
be
sufficient
or,
for
example,
like
with
the
original
subdivision.
There
were
reams
and
reams
of
Engineers
documents,
topo
maps,
all
that
kind
of
stuff
yeah
well,.
D
I
think
what
I'm
talking
about
is
and
preparing
correct
me
or
way
in
here.
Well,
you
do
have
to
go
through
the
Mylar
process
and
amend
you
know
this
sheet,
but
then
it
would
just
say
the
amendments
and
showing
what
you're
doing
on
what
you're
calling
Lotte
and
I'm
a
little
concerned.
If
you
pull
these
out,
you
know
if
we,
if
we
view
it
as
a
minor
division
of
land
and
Ellison,
has
just
been
separated
from
what
was
originally
platted
as
part
of
a
subdivision
have.
H
C
C
U
V
C
V
A
D
D
B
V
V
X
A
C
A
A
Y
Y
U
Y
Y
Coming
in
off
with
Shady
Lane
and
as
I'm
sure
many
of
you
are
aware
of,
there
were
numerous
and
many
problems
with
regard
to
the
development
and
the
road
and
the
bomb
and
all
that
all
those
issues,
but
the
Citizens
Bank
now
owns
and
has
the
residual
acreage
of
this
property,
which
comprises
all
of
on
your
map,
track.
One
parcel
two,
three
four
and
the
residual
parcel
attractive.
Y
Purpose
in
coming
to
the
Planning
Commission
is
twofold:
to
find
out
again
what
the
general
consensus
is
with
regard
to
what
we're
proposing
to
do
with
this,
we
were.
What
I'm
asked
would
be
asking
for
is
a
variance
for
a
private
ingress,
egress
TSP.
We
would
be
dividing
this
entire
acreage
into
five
pieces,
counting
the
residual
which
is
allowed
under
the
minor
subdivision,
but
it
does
require
a
variance
for
the
new
ingress
egress
easement.
This
will
not
be
a
public
roadway.
Y
There
will
be
a
very
detailed
maintenance
agreement
executed
on
each
and
every
deed,
as
well
as
on
the
final
plan
of
survey
that
you
have
a
copy
of
as
well.
This
is
the
same
maintenance
agreement,
though
I
was
before
your
body
about
a
year
ago,
actually
on
development
out
on
Fisher
Road.
Now
there
aren't
open
Harry's
face
I
think
might
be
the
only
one
that
might
have
been
here
at
that
time,
and
at
that
time
it
was
a
little
different
situation,
but
basically
the
same
much
longer
driveway.
It
was
involved.
Y
Y
Y
Y
Subsequent
development
of
the
first
phase
of
Stone
Hill,
and
nothing
is
anticipated
being
done
with
that
now,
but
we
want
to
go
ahead
and
if
you
will
fully
subdivide
the
site
so
that
you
know
as
a
Planning
Commission
what
our
intention
is
to
do
with
this
site
and
then
should
anyone
else
in
the
future
desire
to
do
anything
else.
Of
course,
they
would
have
to
come
back
and
redo
the
whole
process,
but
that
site
would
be
held
for
perhaps
commercial
development
in
the
future.
The
three
other
Lots
parcel
to
parcel
three
and
parcel
four.
Y
On
the
left
hand,
side
of
your
map
on
the
left
hand,
side
of
the
east
net
or
approximately
1.7
acres,
each
so
they'll
be
very
nice
size,
Lots,
that's
a
wooded
area,
it's
a
very,
very
attractive
area
that
would
be
residential
housing,
single-family,
residential
housing
and
the
residual
tracked
by
is
at
this
point
is
anticipated.
One
house
is
going
to
be
built
on
it,
and
the
person
who
is
interested
in
the
property
will
occupy
that
house
and
he
will
have
a
60
point
acre
60.88
retract
we're
looking
at
this.
Basically.
D
Y
The
up
to
you
were
that
my
word
easement
began
as
where
the
the
public
street-
yes,
it
has
been
accepted
and
so
forth
and
with
all
the
the
hassles
with
the
township
and
the
county,
and
all
that
it's
but
there's
actually
been
some
paving
done
out
there,
not
in
very
recent
past,
to
kind
of
help
that
road
out
a
little
bit.
That.
D
Y
Yes,
Shady
Lane
is
developed
all
the
way
back
in
and
there
is
presently
access
off
of
Shady
Lane
into
that
commercial
potential
commercial
area.
That
area
was
extensively
filled
number
of
years
ago
many
years
ago.
Actually,
when
I
started
reviewing
my
files,
this
was
11
years
ago.
I
started
out
on
this
job.
This
project,
so.
Y
You
have
any
questions.
I
will
answer
them
to
the
best
of
my
ability,
but
I
would
like
to
try
to
walk
away
today
with
at
least
a
feel
that
that,
if
I
know
the
normal
process
in
the
past
anyway
and
I
assume
it'll
be
the
same.
Now
is
that
I
would
prepare
the
plaintiff
survey.
I
would
submit
it
to
the
code
office.
The
code
office
would
deny
it
because
it
requires
a
variance
for
the
private
e
and
grossie
grows.
Y
U
C
Y
A
Y
To
be
perfectly
frank
with
you,
the
development
costs
are
very
high
number
one
number
two:
the
desire
is
to
keep
this
a
low
travel
situation
to
make
it
which
will
actually
enhance
the
value
of
those
three
parcels
of
property.
The
maintenance
agreement
that
I've
actually
came
up
with
us
a
couple
of
years
ago
and
Bob
Eichenberg
and
I
worked
on
it
together,
a
few
years
back
actually,
and
it's
a
it's,
a
pretty
tight
maintenance
agreement
and
it's
put
in
each
and
every
deed.
Y
So
it's
it's
not
a
case
of
where
somebody
has
to
refer
to
a
survey.
Plat,
that's
on
file
somewhere
or
what-have-you.
To
be
aware
of
it,
and
you
know
the
potential
always
exists
that
and
that's
another
reason:
we've
provided
50
foot
of
right-of-way
or
would
provide
that
too
for
the
right-of-way.
The
potential
exists
for
development
in
the
future,
and
there
at
least,
has
will
have
been
sufficient
right-of-way
to
allow
for
that
and
the
sewer
and
the
water,
of
course,
would
be
taken
further
back
into
the
site
as
a
result
of
this
as
well
come.
D
Y
Y
Y
This
point
in
the
process
and
a
lot
of
these
things
would
if
it
were
a
full
flight
subdivision,
this
would
go
in
front
of
the
Technical,
Review,
Committee
and
so
forth,
but
given
the
fact
that
it's
a
poor,
local,
minor
subdivision
and
there's
only
one
variance
involved,
then
I
wanted
to
come
here
first,
because
there
is
a
there's,
a
potential
deal
with
the
citizens
bank
that
owns
this
property.
The
Citizens
Bank
is
not
in
the
property
development
business
for
someone
to
purchase
this
property.
Y
If
this
type
of
thing
can
happen,
that's
the
whole
purpose
behind
there.
We
would
take
the
appropriate
steps
if
I
walk
out
of
here
today-
and
you
tell
me
yes,
given
whatever
X
Y
&
Z,
then
we
would
entertain
approving
this
as
a
minor
subdivision,
then
we
will
proceed
and
take
the
appropriate
steps.
We
haven't
started
on
sewer
plans
or
water
plans
or
any
of
those
kinds
of
things.
Until
we
get
a
read
from
all
of
you
as
to
what
your
thoughts
are
and.
U
L
U
Y
So
when
I
actually
get
out
there
and
I'm
doing
the
fieldwork,
if
I
find
it's
necessary
to
move
the
road
up,
the
hill
a
little
bit
or
or
you
know,
shift
this
or
shift
that
you'll
get
something
back
in
here.
As
a
final
document
that
resembles
this,
but
it
may
not
be
this
exactly,
but
it
will
be
three
individual
Lots
to
be
built
upon.
It
will
be
the
commercial
tract
for
potential
future
development,
so
that
that
record,
that
tract
can
be
on
record.
There's
a
lot
of
record
if
you
will
and
the
residual.
R
H
Y
A
Think
one
thing
is
that
I,
don't
think
the
Commission
feels
fully
I,
don't
feel
comfortable
telling
Singh
well,
I
think
you're
going
to
need
this
this
this
and
this
at
this
point,
because
we've
just
started
where
am
I
reading
this
sounds
reasonable.
I
think
the
reality
of
the
bad
blood
I'm
certainly
happy
that
you
are
taking
that
into
consideration
with
other
problems
with
the
road
and
that
you
are
addressing
that
right
up
front
I
think
is
really
important.
So
that's
my
take
on
it.
I.
C
C
So
my
concern
is
the
fact
that
we
do
this
subdivision
and
the
residual
track
comes
back
three
years
from
now
and
says:
let's
cut
it
up
some
more
at
that
point,
you
know
when
I
look
at
this
I,
don't
start
saying:
okay,
we
want
to
restrict
anymore
division
of
this
residual
tract,
which
I,
don't
think
is
fair.
At
the
same
time,
an
easement
between
at
this
point,
four
different
property
owners
or
more
in
the
future,
could
be
a
concern
of
mine.
So
that's
part
of
my
concern
to
what
what's
happening
here.
C
Want
don't
want
to
build
a
road,
and
we
have
so
many
Lots
if
I
understand
it
correctly,
so
I'm
a
little
bit
leery
of
the
action
here,
but
I
wouldn't
mind.
Hearing
more
and
again
I'm
cognizant
of
the
history
of
Shady,
Lane
I
think
it
costs
the
city
something
in
the
past.
It
costs
County,
engineer's
the
county
commissioners
a
little
bit
past
right
and
and
then
it
comes
down
to
the
enforceable
nature
of
an
easement
agreement
of
this
nature
that
would
go
through
small
can't
claims
court
to
get
the
roof
fixed
and
those.
U
Y
I
I
can't
speak
at
this
point
right
now
today,
but
I.
My
feeling
is
that
there
probably
would
not
be
any
reluctance
on
the
part
of
the
potential
purchaser
to
say
that
that
in
the
foreseeable
future
I
mean
you
know
that
the
residual
tract
is
not
going
to
be
divided
into
additional
pieces
to
forever
protrude.
Something
like
that
is
rather
ludicrous.
I
believe
I
mean
you
can't.
H
Y
R
Y
Other
division
occur
within
this,
this
property.
It
would
have
to
come
before
this
board
anyway,
you
know
in
the
future,
and
you
know
to
have
some
sort
of
reasonable
agreement
to
enter
into
for
the
this
current
transaction.
As
far
as
the
further
dividing
you
know,
we
would
certainly
be
amenable
to
considering
something
like
that:
I,
don't
know
exactly
how
that
would
have
happen
or
how
it
could
be
workers
or
what-have-you,
but
that's
really
a
very
I'm,
just
not
sure
how
that
could
be
dealt
with
exactly
and.
C
That's
part
of
my
concern,
you
know
again,
I,
look
and
say:
okay,
you
know
I
would
say
a
fan
if
I
was
going
to
try
fixing
something
like
that
and
something
other
words
to
make
sure
that
we
didn't
have
further
subdivisions
to
another
series
of
subdivisions
on
the
60
acres,
where
at
that
point
some
requirement
of
that
eastman
ceasing
to
be
an
easement
by
a
public
road
would
fall
into
play.
The
identic,
then
that
brings
up
the
point
at
this
point.
The
standard
of
the
road
just
being
the
standard
of
the
private
road.
C
F
Y
C
C
Y
But
they're
sufficient
right
away,
and
there
would
be
you
know,
even
with
that
ten-foot
driveway
there
would
be
proper,
ditching
and
so
forth,
and
there
would
be
some
culvert
some
of
the
road,
but
should
any
public
development
be
done,
then
it
would
have
to
be
brought
up
to
whatever
public
standards
were
in
effect
at
that
time
and
there'd
be
sufficient
right
away
there
for
that
to
occur.
You
know,
basically,
the
ten-foot
driveway
wouldn't
be
no
consequence
to
developing
a
future
public
road.
You
know
you'd
have
some
base
in
place,
but
that
would
be
about
it.
Y
Y
Y
And
we
use
this
exact-
was
a
private
driver
just
exactly
like
this?
Instead
of
five
pieces
total,
which
is
what
you
can
have
as
a
minor
subdivision,
including
the
residual?
There
were
two.
Y
H
X
Right,
you
know
again:
I'm
gonna
go
back
to
what
I
stay
with
th
loved.
All
is
that
you
know
my
concern.
Is
this
this
private
ingress
egress
thing
they
work
up
till
the
time
and
you
know
mayor
mentioned
tau.
You
know,
eventually
these
things
sometimes
get
taken
to
small
claims
court,
because
someone's
not
going
to
be
willing
to
maintain
the
roadway-
and
you
know
the
Granite's,
it's
part
of
the
deed
and
sure
there's
lawns
sort
of
that
sort
of
thing.
X
But
you
know
we
had
a
meeting
earlier
today,
but
considering
a
noise
ordinance
and
that's
also
law
and
people
aren't
willing
to
enforce
it,
not
a
force.
They'd
say
you
know,
public
roadways
work,
you
know,
I
think.
Maybe
right
now
you
know
we
can't
really
rule
on
this.
That's
really
just
stating
how
we
feel
what's
going
on,
but
that's
my
main
concern
is
that
it's
the
private
right
away
and
I
understand
you've
talked
with
Bob
Lipe
Eichenberg
about
drawing
that
up.
X
D
Because
there's
been
a
lot
of
these
with
these
private
access
easements
out
in
the
county,
because
we're
running
out
of
Road
front
right
generally
but
I
would
ask
you
Jerry
to
talk
with
Bob
and
get
the
most
recent
updated.
This
make
sure
that
the
ten
feet
with
minimum
service
would
service
all
the
emergency
vehicles
are,
you
know
who
might
have
to
get
down
there
and
I
know
that
he's
also
included
now
a
mediation
clause.
They
would
also
utilize
the
Athens
County.
W
W
W
But
it
doesn't
say
by
who
and
ohio
revised
code
doesn't
give
any
guidance
either,
so
you
could
interpret
it
that
Planning
Commission,
the
Zoning
Administrator,
the
mayor
or
City
Council,
all
four
of
them
or
a
few
of
them.
So
the
mayor
and
I
discussed
this
this
morning
and
it
is
something
we
may
want
to
look
for
guidance
from
the
law
director
other
than
that.
W
Commissioner
fall
and
I
attended
a
meeting
two
weeks
ago
up
in
Columbus
on
how
to
look
how
to
integrate
sustainability
into
our
city
code.
I
was
hoping
to
have
more
information
on
that
for
you
today,
but
with
my
last
two
weeks,
being
trading
back
and
forth
between
planning
and
the
code
office,
I
haven't
had
the
time
to
put
anything
together
for
you
today,
but
I
will
be
working
for
that
for
the
next
Planning
Commission.
It.