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From YouTube: Athens City Council Meeting 10-24-05
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B
We
have,
after
we
finished
the
comprehensive
plan,
at
least
the
first
part
of
it.
We
had
several
different
committees
that
kept
working
in
one
of
them
was
the
open
space
committee
tonight,
they'd
like
to
make
a
presentation
on
that
and
Chris
Knisley
will
come
in
second
with
them:
a
proposed
change
to
the
land,
development
ordinance,
okay,
so
the
first
thing
is
a
handout
that
we
all
have
in
our
hands.
It's
them
open
space
definition,
okay-
and
this
is
milk,
green
hi,.
C
Thanks
for
having
us
back
to
recap,
in
early
September,
we
present
a
open
space
definition
that
was
new
to
say
code
and
possibly
that
you
could
look
at
for
your
own
perusal
and
we
redefined
the
present
open
space
code
as
cultural
and
recreational
zone
so
that
it
would
have
more
flexibility.
And
we
thought
these
two
combined
changes
would
allow
us
to
move
forward
with
implementation
of
some
aspects
of
the
Comprehensive
Plan
and
as
well,
be
able
to
solve
some
problems
that
you
are
facing.
C
That
Athens
has
natural
areas
that
come
up
right
next
to
structures
and
pervious
services
that
our
definition
is
measurable.
But
it
is
also
more
flexible
because
it
allows
for
this
conjunction
of
nature,
with
buildings
and
impervious
services,
and
that
in
our
work
we
clearly
defined
a
recreation
and
cultural
zone
rather
than
just
have
a
comment
that
the
open
space
definition
includes
cultural
and
recreational
zones.
C
And
finally,
the
new
definition
clears
up
contradictory
definitions
and
preserves
gives
you
the
possibility
of
preserving
open
space,
while
also
allowing
some
changes
to
recreation
and
cultural
zones
that
will
make
them
more
useful,
as
those
zones
are
set
aside
for
on
our
second
page-
and
this
is
important.
We
found.
C
That
is
a
good
thing
that
we're
actually
stopped
in
the
process,
because
we
realized
that
our
original
definition
had
contained
the
phrase
green
space
which
we
have
not
defined,
and
it's
not
defined
in
city
code,
and
so
we
change
that
to
be
living
plants
rooted
in
the
ground.
So
the
new
open
space
definition
is
open.
Spaces
land
is
predominantly
greater
than
80
percent.
Without
human
built
structures
as
composed
of
living
plants
root
in
the
ground,
nasha
cleared
rock
and
clay
surfaces
are
permeable
surfaces.
C
The
other
two
pages
are
original
from
our
earlier
submission
to
the
City
Council,
with
the
revision
in
bolt
on
the
third
page
of
to
the
open
space
definition.
The
fourth
page
is
the
what
would
happen
if
we
took
the
open
space
zone
code
in
city
code
and
changed
it
to
recreation
or
cultural
zone
in
place
of
that
spacers
on
in
place
of
that?
C
B
C
Dealing
specifically
with
what
you're
dealing
with
in
your
open
space
definition,
this
allows
flexibility
for
where
you
have
things
like
cultural
recreational
zones
that
could
fit
in
the
area
of
open
space
that
you
would
have.
For
example,
in
your
open
space
definition,
you
could
have
a
parking
lot
that
took
up
20%
of
your
open
space.
That
was
not
permeable
or
you
could
have
a
parking
lot
that
was
permobil
over
a
larger
area
of
your
open
space.
Those
would
fit
in
your
definitions,
and
that
would
solve
a
parking
lot
problem.
C
B
C
It
depends
on
what
you
do
with
the
code
at
this
point.
This
is
just
the
beginning.
What
we
would
you
know
we
might
suggest
something
in
the
future.
That
says
here
are
certain
ideas
that
will
preserve
open
space
or
make
open
space
move
toward
green
space,
but
that
does
not
mean
you
would
adopt
those
things.
This
initial
definition
allows
the
possibility
for
those
things,
but
if
you
feel
that's
not
in
line
with
the
comprehensive
plan
are
not
wise
for
the
overall
community,
then
you
can
reject
that
portion
later
on.
B
A
Interested
when
you
said
open
space
could
consist
of
80%
of
naturally
rooted
plants
with
20%
covered
by
a
parking
lot
or
more
than
20%
covered
by
a
permeable
parking
lot.
When
I
read
your
definition
it
it
seemed
to
me
that
it
was
saying
naturally
created
rock
or
clay
services
or
permeable
surfaces.
I
thought
the
naturally
created
modified.
Also
the
permeable
applied
to
the
permeable
surfaces,
so
I
see
what
you're
saying
now
that
that
could
actually
be
created.
Permeable
surfaces
right.
C
C
C
E
A
question,
and
it's
probably
for
the
mayor
and
as
well
as
a
member
of
the
Planning
Commission
when
I
brought
forward
the
proposal
last
year
to
rezone
the
floodway
as
open
space.
The
Planning
Commission
really
zeroed
in
and
expressed
concern
about
the
existing
definition
of
open
space
in
the
zoning
code,
and
you
all
were
looking
at
some
definitions
and
I.
Just
wonder
procedurally
rather
than
council
going
through
this
and
referring
it
to
the
Planning
Commission
and
getting
it
back.
If
you've
done
any
work
on
that
or
you
know,
process
wise
where
we
go.
B
So
is
it
fair,
Milton
and
well?
First
of
all,
let
me
thank
you
as
a
I'm
glad
the
citizens
are
continuing
to
talk
and
keeping
the
pressure
on
us
to
get
something
out
of
this,
but
is
it
fair
to
say
that
this
is
a
response
to
some
of
the
issues
we've
had
concerning
open
space
that
you
guys
all
got
together
and
discuss
this?
That.
C
Yeah
there
are
a
number
of
issues
about
the
attractiveness
of
the
community
to
year-round
residents
and
families,
and
one
of
those
issues
both
identified
in
the
comprehensive
plan
and
by
members
of
our
group,
is
that
the
natural
environment
tree
canopy,
suppression
of
noise,
air
quality,
quality
of
water,
even
bird
life,
and
things
like
that
are
make
the
community
more
attractive.
To
those
who
would
make
this
a
home.
And
we
feel
that
this
is
an
important
aspect
to
the
community
of
Athens
and
to
the
future
of
Athens.
G
Well,
you
are
aware
that
this,
the
title
23
section,
goes
to
play
information,
of
course
already
and
they
tighten
21.
We
could
probably
work
on
ourselves.
I
do
notice
that
when
you
start
talking
about
80%
predominately
open
space
without
you
and
bill
structures,
I
think
in
in
the
har
one
zone,
you're
allowed
30%
coverage
of
a
lot.
So
really
what
you
talk
about
in
one
case
would
be
a
small
house
on
a
big
lot.
In
some
instances,
I
mean.
G
C
One
of
the
one
of
the
definitions
are
a
couple
of
the
definitions
that
wanky
cement
had
open
space.
Private,
an
open
space
public
are
common
and
those
are
the
things
that
we're
going
to
continue
to
look
at
we'll
look
at
how
they
separate
those
off,
and
we
may
suggest
that
there
be
different
categories
of
open
space.
D
H
In
Winkies
definition,
city
sent
to
us
a
while
back
one
of
the
things
that
I
found
intriguing
and
important
to
the
the
whole
definition
was
the
connector
idea
in
that
green
space
shouldn't
be
just
random
places
where
you've
got
a
little
green
or
a
little
open
area,
but
it
all
should
connect
throughout
the
city
so
that
you've
got
some
sense
to
it
and
ways
to
get
from
one
part
to
another
and
so
on
and
so
forth
and
I.
Just
would
encourage
you
all
to
pursue
that
concept
in
your
work.
Okay,.
C
Thanks
but
input
couple
members
of
our
committee
have
been
studying
green
space
and
open
space
plans
and
from
other
communities,
and
those
are
issues
I
discussed
the
amount
of
green
space
per
habitat
in
how
much
area
there
is
for
within
certain
blocks.
Like
do
you
have
green
space,
yes
or
an
area?
Do
you
have
connected
green
space?
Do
you
have
a
green
space
that
can
provide
say
that
birds
would
have
transit
throughout
most
the
city
rather
than
having
pigeons
predominate?
Things
like
that?
C
There's
a
number
of
aspects
and
those
things
are
presently
being
looked
at
and
we
hope
to
be
able
to
provide
you
in
the
future
with
possibilities
that
would
look
at
those
very
specific
things,
including
one
thing
that
we're
working
on
now
is
a
riparian
zone,
look
around
the
river,
and
that
would
involve
some
of
the
things
that
were
being
discussed
earlier
and
also.
We
are
looking
at
having
a
map
made
of
the
present
green
and
open
space
of
Athens,
and
that
would
give
us
a
footprint
to
go
by
some.
C
H
Certainly,
you
know
we
were
nature
gave
us
a
river
which
gives
us
a
starting
point
and
the
city's
given
us
bike
paths
which
helps
as
well,
but
certainly
that
connected
part
of
it
and
our
land
that
we've
acquired
surrounding
the
city.
The
wooded
areas
where
the
walkways
and
connected
areas
that
that's
been
one
of
the
goals
that
they've
pants
off
these.
C
A
I
My
name
is
Chris
Knicely,
15,
old
coach,
rode,
Athens,
Ohio
and,
as
Nancy
mentioned
I'm
also
a
member
of
a
committee
of
persons.
That's
been
working
together
to
look
at
some
of
the
environmental
issues
and
open
space
and
green
space,
and
one
of
the
other
items
that
we
realized
might
be
helpful
to
have
some
language
added
to.
I
The
addition
of
a
phrase
so
the
first,
the
phrase
that
would
be
added,
would
be,
shall
preserve
the
general
shape
size
and
natural
topographic
features.
So
it's
talking
about
encouraging
planning
to
do
just
that.
Preserving
general
shape
size
and
natural
topographic
features
and
then
goes
on
with
the
rest
of
the
sentence
shall
maintain
at
least
the
existing
levels
of
slope
stability
and
not
increase
the
potential
for
slope.
Failure.
I
I
G
I
H
Is
part
of
I
mean?
Do
you
think
that
this
says
clearly
don't
tuck
cut
off
the
top
of
a
hill
feels
good?
That's.
That
would
be
my
whole
question
because
that
keeps
coming
up
over
and
over
and
I've
had
people
say
to
me
that
our
law,
the
way
it's
written,
does
not
prevent
chopping
off
the
top
of
the
hill.
That
was.
H
H
B
Was
my
question
a
different
way:
diplomatic
try
change,
trying
occasionally
thanks
Chris
appreciate
it
and
the
rest
of
the
ordinance
ISM,
something
that,
as
Carol
mentioned,
that
probably
needs
to
be
a
drastic
against
scalping.
Any
other
room
I
mean
at
least
I've
heard
from
people
that
don't
necessarily
live
on
the
south
side.
How
unhappy
they
are
with
the
one
example
we
have
I
mean
you
know,
I
mean
even
people
that
don't
live
in
that
area
and
have
this
experience
happy
with
it.
When.
G
B
B
B
A
E
We
could
specifically
ask
Andy
stone,
he's
been
through
some
training
about
permeable
surfaces.
I
guess
we
may
be
that
information
is
in
the
office,
because
I
know
the
tree.
Commission
was
trying
to
look
at
definitions
of
permeable
surfaces
that
could
be
used
in
relation
to
the
landscape
ordinance
to
be
able
to
allow
that,
and
there
was
all
this
correspondence
that
involved:
Steve,
Pearson
and
Andy
stone
that
the
soil
types
here
there
are
certain
soil
types
that
are
just
not
permeable,
whether
they
have
an
artificial
surface
on
top
of
them
or
not.
E
So
the
definition
here
refers
to
a
runoff
curve
number
and
looking
at
some
numeric
coding
of
what
would
count
as
a
permeable
surface
that
I
just
wonder
with
our
existing
soil
types,
where
we
are
on
that,
whether
we
might
already
have
surfaces
that
are
fairly
impermeable
because
of
the
clay
content.
If
we're
looking
at
those
kind
of
numbers,
we
may
have
natural
surfaces
that
that
would
score
badly
I'm,
not
sure.
E
A
G
I
had
a
lot
of
conversations
with
Andy
about
permeable,
sidewalk
parking,
lots
and
stuff
like
that
surfaces
most
because
I
got
an
appeal
from
the
Zoning
Board
Zoning
Board
of
Appeals
to
try
fiying
something
else.
Besides
parking
lots
with
asphalt
or
brick
or
cement
concrete
and-
and
he
did
go
to
a
workshop
on
ice
and
what
he's
telling
us
is
that
two
of
the
conditions
that
you
need
for
a
parking
lot,
that's
permeable
and
he's
talking
about
a
permeable
asphalt
system.
G
D
G
That
was
one
of
the
problems,
because
really
what
you're
doing
is
you're,
creating
a
something
that
the
asphalt
will
soak
through
into
a
better
Oh
soil,
that's
permeable
and
therefore
it
can
sink
way
down.
But
if
it's
the
water
table
side,
it
doesn't
work
and
if
it
was
crooked,
it
all
just
pool
in
one
side
of
the
parking
lot.
So
there
are
probably
other
options,
but
I
I
never
got
around
to
talking
about.
So
it's.
E
G
G
E
To
make
a
recommendation
to
the
Planning
Commission,
we
do
a
resolution
and
we
then
so
it's
not.
It
doesn't
go
through
three
readings
and
then
to
them
and
then
back
we
so
once
we've
got
an
idea
of
what
the
language
can
be.
We
can
do
a
resolution
and
hand
it
off
to
them
pretty
quickly,
just
a
matter
of
getting
it
at
least
close
to
right
before
we
hand
it
off
it.
G
J
Then,
of
course,
once
the
categories
are
established,
then
the
actual
application
of
the
categories
to
specific
parcel
of
land
is
another
sort
of
a
second-order
issue.
I
mean
I,
mean
I,
I.
Think
a
more
careful
delineation
of
uses,
it's
just
a
more
refined
tool,
but
how
its
put
on
the
grounds
where
the
do
is
gets
interesting,
so
I
mean.
J
E
L
L
Uriel
grim
24,
Canterbury
Drive,
it's
both
a
question
and
a
comment:
I
guess
with
what
you
were
just
talking
about,
whether
what
we
were
proposing
is
possible,
because
what
we
were
proposing
was
to
simply
define
open
space,
in
other
words,
to
no
longer
have
an
open
space
zone
and
I,
don't
know
whether
Ohio
Revised
Code
requires
that
you
use
an
open
space
zone.
Our
our
plan
and
something
you
asked
about
before,
was
to
simply
define
open
space
and
then
use
it.
L
You
know
and
I
think
this
alludes
to
something
you
were
saying
before,
because
we
felt
that
this
might
clear
up
the
problem
that
you've
been
having
with
whether
or
not
you
can
put
a
parking
lot
next
to
a
soccer
field
in
the
flood
zone
or
if
you,
if
you,
instead
of
having
an
open
space
zone,
if
you
simply
use
open
space
as
a
terminology,
then
create
your
other
zones,
but
I,
don't
I
guess.
My
question
now
is
whether
this
is
not
legally
possible.
I,
you
know,
I
really
don't
know.
E
Well,
I
think
related
to
the
soccer
the
field
proposal.
That
area
is
not
zoned
open
space.
Currently
it's
it's
in
the
floodway,
but
there's
not
a
zoning
problem
with
what
people
are
proposing
to
do
there
so
I
mean
I,
don't
know,
since
the
definition
of
open
space
is
in
the
zoning
code,
I
think
any
changes
that
we
make
are
gonna
have
to
happen
there
and
that's
me.
L
L
Is
no
currently
no
definition
that
there
there
is
a
definition
of
open
space
in
the
development
section.
You
know
it's
got
something
to
do
with
with
private
houses.
I
think
there's
a
definition
in
there
somewhere,
but
there's
no
general
definition
in
the
city
code
of
open
space,
and
so
you
come
up
with
two
conflicting
concepts.
A
But
again
adding
the
definition
go
back
to
the
code
and
then
I,
don't
know
why
you
couldn't
add
the
definition
or
we
define
the
term.
However,
we
decide
that
is
and
then
change
the
designation
of
the
zone.
Also
as
we
work
through
it,
we
can
change
it
as
change
these
things,
as
broadly
as
we
desires
long
as
we
follow
the
procedure,
yeah.
L
I
guess
again,
you
brought
up
opens
own
private
property.
Yes,
there
would
be
nothing.
I
mean
open
space.
There
would
be
nothing
wrong.
I
think
it
was
Paul's
question
nothing
wrong
with
calling
that
particular
piece
of
private
property
that
only
had
20%
of
its
house,
of
a
of
it
being
used
for
a
house
there'd
be
nothing
wrong
with
calling
that
open
space,
because
open
space
is
simply
a
term.
It's
not
real.
D
L
H
E
I
just
want
to
clarify
that
I
wouldn't
want
us
to
be
considering
not
having
an
open
space
zone,
I
mean
in
our
current
regulatory
structure.
That's
how
you
know.
Limitations
on
uses
of
different
pieces
of
land
are
established,
so
just
defining
open
space
as
a
term
that
we
use
would
not
protect
those
spaces.
I
think
that
whatever
the
definition
is,
the
spaces
have
to
actually
be
zoned
that,
to
you
know,
have
some
legal
standing
as
open
space.
L
B
Gonna
send
somebody
said:
Andy
I
was
gonna.
Ask
the
mayor.
If
you
could
send
someone
out
so
I,
don't
get
any
more
phone
calls
on
cable
II
see
if
they
could
fix
that
road
eventually.
Well,
because
they
are
saying,
oh
what
oh
I
don't
know.
I
I've
been
talking
about
I
and
I
in
that
area
for
years,
spokes,
Bob,
Bob,
and
on
and
hold
it
up
myself.
B
A
J
E
My
other
question
that
wasn't
part
of
the
open
space
discussion
is
with
the
land.
Development
ordinance
seems
like
a
separate
piece
and
we
didn't
really
yeah
and
it
seems
pretty
straightforward.
It's
taking
a
phrase,
that's
already
in
the
land,
development
ordinance
and
adding
it
do.
We
have
a
way
that
we
want
to
proceed
on
that.
A
A
A
D
J
Okay,
we're
gonna
be
in
finance
and
personnel
we're
under
the
general
topic
of
the
budget
preparation
for
next
year.
You
refer
to
your
timeline.
We
have
the
item
for
tonight.
It
is
revenue
projections
I
see.
The
auditor
is
here
so
we'll
go
ahead
and
go
straight
to
that.
Well,
well,
throw
in
a
couple
of
other
things,
just
while
she's
coming
to
the
podium
on
I
passed
out
to
you
all,
an
excerpt
from
the
I'm
gonna
pay
study.
This
is
the
non-union
pay
study
that
we
did
this
last
year.
J
G
M
Yes,
you
asked
me
for
revenue
projections
for
tonight
and
I'm
gonna.
Stick
to
that,
but
it's
a
little
bit
hard
to
talk
about
revenue
and
not
also
talk
about
expenses,
but
I'll
try
to
stick
to
the
revenue.
Part
I've
looked
at
the
figures
we
have
so
far
this
year
and
actually
we're
a
little
bit
ahead
of
the
game
this
year.
M
Looking
at
this,
we
are,
we
do
have
September
reports
which
puts
us
3/4
of
the
way
through
the
year,
but
a
lot
of
things
do
come
in
towards
the
end
of
the
year
and
so
we'll
know
in
the
next
two
months
or
what
the
actual
amounts
will
be.
But
I've
talked
to
a
few
of
the
department
heads
and
the
mayor
and
I
would
say
it's
mostly
good
news.
The
income
tax
revenue
is
up
from
last
year,
which
is
really
good
about
four
point:
six
percent.
M
As
of
the
end
of
September,
we
don't
expect
that
to
go
down
in
the
next
few
months,
so
I
would
just
to
throw
this
out
there
in
the
beginning.
Depending
on
the
figures
you
know
in
the
next
few
months,
I
would
still
project
a
two
and
a
half
percent
increase,
we're
usually
pretty
conservative
when
we
project
for
the
next
year,
but
I
would
project
two
and
a
half
percent
increase
in
revenue
for
the
next
year
for
budgeting
purposes.
I
looked
most
closely
at
the
general
fund,
the
total
actual
receipts
are
up
1.1,
6
percent.
M
The
tax
receipts
are
at
one
point,
one
nine
percent.
This
is
in
the
general
fund.
One
of
the
departments
I
looked
at
is
the
co
department.
Since
we
talked
about
that
a
lot
and
you
I
believe
you're
gonna,
look
at
increasing
some
of
the
fees
that
are
charged
there.
Rental
and
miscellaneous
permits
are
up,
but
the
contractor
vendor
licenses
and
down
building
permits
are
down
and
Halloween
receipts
are
down
now.
Some
of
that
income
will
go
up
this
month,
but
there's
not
a
big
change
in
that
department.
M
They
could
could
certainly
look
at
their
fees
that
they're
charging
and,
of
course,
that
revenues
cyclical
depending
on
new
projects
in
the
police
department,
the
parking
tickets
are
way
up.
The
expecting
increase
in
revenue
of
fifty
thousand
dollars
resulting
from
their
new
software
that
they
implemented
this
year,
the
Dare
funds
might
have
to
be
reduced
because
officer
Crossan
is
doing
more
patrolling
because.
J
M
I
think
that's
probably
not
changing
we're
just
collecting
on
probably
not
so
anyway.
That
would
be
the
major
increase
in
revenue
in
the
police
department.
Street
meter
revenue
is
down
some,
but
the
college
lot
need
a
revenue.
Is
we'll
look
at
that
more
closely,
I
think
in
Municipal
Court
the
revenue
from
Causton
finds
his
way
up.
Those
accounts
had
gone
down
dramatically
last
year
and
at
the
end
of
the
year
we
were
really
adjusting
our
appropriations
and
certified
resources
to
account
for
that
I'm
glad
they're
back
on
track.
M
M
M
The
community
center
revenue
is
that
modestly,
the
membership
revenue
is
down.
They
haven't
changed
their
fees
since
they
open,
so
they
did
increase
their
rates,
effective,
October
1st
and
they
they
project
about
a
thirty
thousand
dollar
increase
in
revenue
from
that
for
next
year.
The
recreation
programs
are
up
slightly.
The
tax
revenue
is
down
because
of
the
mix
change
in
the
Recreation
Department,
but
all
of
their
pool
revenue
was
up
this
summer,
and
so
was
the
income
from
adult
programs.
M
The
street
department,
so
overall
I
think
they
will
be
up
in
revenue,
but
slightly
modestly
I
guess
I'd
say
the
street
department
and
Street
rehab
fund
are
both
down.
The
income.
Tax
mix
has
really
adversely
affected
the
street
department,
with
all
the
projects
that
they
have
going
on
and
in
the
street
rehab
the
state
motor
vehicle
license
income
is
down,
but
I
wouldn't
expect
that
I'm
not
sure
that
that
would
go
up.
I
wouldn't
count
on
that.
M
M
Save
the
sewer
department
till
the
end
of
my
specific
departments,
the
service
charges
are
actually
up
slightly,
but
the
tap
fees
are
down
considerably.
At
the
end
of
September,
we
collected
about
sixty
nine
and
a
half
percent,
which
the
should
really
be
around
seventy-five
percent
for
the
year
for
our
budgeting
purposes,
so
we're
probably
closer
than
we've
been
in
the
past
and
that
could
come
up
at
the
end
of
the
year.
M
I
don't
know,
but
it's
just
something
to
look
at
I
would
say
some
things
to
consider
when
looking
at
the
revenue
for
a
next
year,
local
government
funds
are
frozen
until
August
of
2007.
While
that
money
is
a
percentage,
it
won't
change
what
we
will
have
no
increase
in
revenue,
I'm
sure
for
all
of
next
year.
From
that
I
think
a
sewer
rate
increase
should
be
adopted.
M
That's
not
a
new,
a
new
thought
to
throw
out
there,
but
I
think
that
would
be
a
good
idea
to
look
at
and
also
I
think
the
mayor's
going
to
talk
about
this.
But
the
tax
makes
changes
we
implemented
at
the
end
of
last
year
should
probably
be
revisited.
This
year
we
had
several
things
going
on
last
year:
a
huge
reduction
in
our
tax
receipts
and
I
think
we're
coming
out
of
that.
So
we
might
want
to
consider
putting
some
of
that
money
back
in
those
departments
or
just
moving
it
around
now.
M
M
So
if
you
have
any
questions
about
what's
going
on
about
anything
why
something
might
be
up
in
particular,
let
me
know:
I
still,
I
still
need
to
do
some
more
work
in
research
as
far
as
looking
into
funds
and
accounts
in
regards
to
grant
funding,
but
that's
all
kind
of
hard
to
pin
down
sometimes
too
before
the
end
of
the
year,
so
have
some
calls
into
people
I'm
waiting
to
hear
from
to
find
out
about
that.
But
I
wouldn't
expect
that
to
affect
our
budget
dramatically
at
all
questions.
E
M
Hey
I
talked
to
Steve
Pearson
today
and
they
yes,
they
could
certainly
use
an
increase
in
fees
there.
The
fees
pay
for
and
I
can't
remember,
or
whether
it's
the
permit
building
permits
or
rental
permits,
but
around
seventy
to
eighty
percent
of
their
actual
costs,
so
really
modest
increase
in
fees
could
make
them
almost
self-supporting
in
some
areas
in
the
code
office.
But,
yes,
we
could
get
figures.
M
Only
know
of
one
offhand
Bill
Irwin
last
day,
his
retirement
party
will
be
Monday
October
31st
at
the
Code
office
in
the
afternoon.
I,
don't
think
we'll
I
don't
know
of
any
more
before
the
end
of
the
year.
I
think
a
few
people
are
talking
about
it
next
year,
but
that's
the
only
one
I
know
for
sure.
Before
the
end
of
this
year,.
J
I
M
M
Single
account
line,
some
of
which
have
been
inactive
for
years.
Would
you
want
that
information
by
funds,
maybe
having
the
general
fund
listed
individually,
the
accounts,
or
do
you
have
any
thoughts
on
that
or
you
just
want
me
to
work
on
that
and
try
to
get
you
something
that
you
could
look
at
it?
Wouldn't
the.
J
Spreadsheet
that
we've
used
previously
has
been
pretty
functional
and
it
was
it
was
long,
but
it
also
wreck
me
one
of
the
reasons
that
was
as
detailed
as
it
was
that
some
of
those
funds
are
designated
and
can't
be
really
used
for
any
other
purpose
or
have
a
restricted
use,
and
it's
probably
good
for
us
too
to
see
that
recognizing
that
at
you
know
we're
only
through
the
through
three
quarters
of
the
year
in
terms
of
records.
So
any
projection
at
this
point
is
gonna,
be
based
on
that,
but
I
guess
it
benefits.
J
M
J
A
D
J
J
M
J
J
M
J
Did
we've
talked
about
income
tax
of
changes,
legislation,
changes
I,
understand
that
I
had
thought.
We
would
happen
tonight,
but
I
understand
from
the
law
director's
office
that
they
have
they're
almost
through
with
their
review,
and
they
really
don't
see
anything.
That's
particularly
troublesome
about
the
suggestions
that
you've
made
so
I
was
thinking,
couldn't
go
ahead
and
just
move
those
along
put
them
up
in
November
and
get
them
moving
since
there
doesn't
seem
to
be
any
issues
with
them.
J
J
E
J
M
D
M
B
E
M
M
C
M
B
D
J
M
F
F
J
Well
then,
let's,
let's
talk
about
these
for
a
minute.
If
you
recall
I
wasn't
here,
so
if
you
don't
know
what
I
recall,
but
anywhere
we
had
that
we
had
a
discussion
of
the
Maximus
study
and
then
the
subsequent
recommendations
on
different
fees
and,
as
I
read
recall
it
from
the
tail
end
of
the
discussion.
There
was
some
issue
with
particularly
the
zoning
variance
requests
recommendations.
J
What
deme
now
we're
talking
about
is,
would
it
be?
Would
it
be
okay
for
us
to
sit
and
try
to
reach?
Some
remember
we
can
do
this
right
now
is
if
there
are
certain
fees
that
we
feel
like
need
for
the
discussion,
let's,
let's
go
ahead
and
put
a
tick
mark
by
those,
and
if
there
are
others
that
we
feel
comfortable
proceeding
with,
can
we
move
to
sort
of
move
along
a
fee
schedule
ordinance
that
we
get
us
get
us.
C
A
B
She
said
she
thought
I
mean
because
I
was
pretty
shocked
by
it
last
time
and
she
said
she
thought
there
were
three
ingredients
in
it.
Not
all
of
them.
Art
are
charged
off
the
code,
at
least
from
Hertz
exploration
and
I
and
I
guess:
I
learned
something
else
about
the
Maxima
study,
and
that
would
be
that
whatever
administrative
apparatus
or
management
style
is
in
is
what
is
costed
against
it.
So
it's
not
an
evaluation
of
it.
So
that's
where
this
comes
from.
B
B
And
I
think
that
race
is
that
way
beyond
what
is
a
reasonable
amount?
My
only
real
complaint
is
that
one
because
I
feel
their
property
rights
questions.
That's
what
zoning
is.
The
BCA
is
supposed
to
be
a
citizen's
board
that
has
a
that
has
the
right
to
Granta
a
waiver
in
the
law
for
other
citizens,
and
it
seems
like
there's
a
fair
amount
of
administrative
oversight
on
something
that
should
be
a
citizen
for
it.
So
you
know
Gary
chooses
to
spend
his
prosecutors
money
that
way.
B
Think
that
I
would
like
to
argue
strongly
that
the
Zoning
Board
of
Appeals
application
should
be
much
lower
than
what
it's
costing
us
right
now,
based
on
the
decisions
of
the
current
and
the
previous
efforts
in
this
area
and
I
know
we
do
get
boggle
down
on
this
area.
I
mean
it's
supposed
to
be
a
quasi
judicial
board.
It's
supposed
to
be
able
to
operate
and
make
mistakes
and
I
just
think
charging
500
would
just
be
contrary
to
the
interests
of
of
a
private
private.
E
D
K
D
E
B
G
B
G
B
B
B
F
H
F
Has
the
recoverable
units
of
service,
which
is
the
really
last
page
of
the
report,
I
think,
but
it
has
a
number
of
the
frequency
of
each
one
of
these
and
some
of
these
like
when
we're
starting
to
talk
about
Planned
Unit
development
only
have
one
in
the
year
the
next
year
you
might
have
five,
but
there's
some
of
them.
That
I
thought
that,
particularly
like
minor
lots,
blitz
number
nine,
which
we
do
fifty
of
those
last
year,
you
know
and
no
charge
a
feed.
F
K
F
F
But
again,
when
we
look
at
total
full
cost
here,
we're
really
only
looking
at
how
you've
allocated
the
cost
of
the
auditor's
office
counsel
the
buildings,
everything
else
as
a
percentage
back
into
that
to
get
the
total
cost.
So
if
you
look
at
it
as
a
pure
outgo
of
expenditures,
indirect
operating
of
the
code
office
only
which
would
have
a
budget
of
roughly
five
hundred
and
some
thousand
dollars
the
way
this
Maximus
report
looks
at
us,
they
they
add
all
the
times.
The
out
of
the
wrote
a
check
and
paid
people.
F
That
gets
back
to
a
total
cost,
as
you
see,
or
the
692
thousand
for
the
code
office.
This
is
where
the
major
difference
in
the
way
you
compute
a
Maximus
report,
is
it's
just
not
looking
at
the
single
entity,
but
everything
else
that
supports
that
entity,
including
a
fifty
year
cost
of
recovery
on
the
building
space
that
you
have
for
it.
So
some
subsidies,
amines,
yeah
I,
think
that's
that's
reasonable,
but
unless
we
would
disband
the
code
office
we're
going
to
have
these
kinds
of
expenses,
it's
just.
F
You
have
to
decide
where
to
spread
that
that
cost
around
I
think
your
basic
concept
of
not
having
anything
too
high
on
particularly
the
private
citizen,
who
just
wants
to
put
a
deck
on
their
back.
You
know
in
the
back
right,
because
one
of
those
one
or
two
of
those
cases
could
go
a
long
long
time
and
others
might
be
done
within
10-15
minutes
would
be
at
very
low
cost,
and
it's
just
not
enough
of
them
to
to
do
that.
But
all
in
all,
I
was
pretty
pleased
with
with
the
report.
J
Yes,
aside
from
the
Zoning
Board
variance
request,
which
appears
to
be
listed
twice
so
I'm
not
sure
once
15
+
1
is
0
but
right,
but
either
way,
I
think
what
we're
saying
is
a
$50
fee
or
hundred
or
a
hundred
is
in
the
realm
of
discussion,
as
opposed
to
the
cost
recovery
item
which
is
500
dollars.
We're
not
interested
in
that
farther
others.
I
want
to
try
to
get
this
moved
along,
though
there
are
others
here
that
caused
you.
Some
concern
that
you
want
to
raise
right
now,
I
just.
B
B
B
F
F
B
H
B
G
J
J
D
B
G
E
E
B
B
J
A
A
B
F
B
A
A
A
B
Going
once
hi
there's
another
one
that
I
I
thought
I
asked
the
question
before,
but
I'm
gonna
come
back
and
ask
the
mayor
again:
land
development
permit
greater
than
five
acres
and
it
says
consultants
and
we
pass
through
by
ordinance
the
cost.
Still
one
hundred
and
five
it'll
be
more
than
one
hundred
and
five
well
yeah.
This
is
just
it
to
work
with
the
engineer.
Is
that
what
it
is?
What.
B
F
D
J
Or
decrease
according
to
the
suggested
fee,
except
in
the
following
areas:
the
two
zoning
board
variances,
where
the
recommendation
is
in
the
five
hundred
range
and
we
would
suggest
in
the
hundred
range,
even
though
I
understand
there
may
be.
We
may
want
to
talk
about
that.
We
manage
that
the
revocable
license
is
suggested
to
go
up
to
205
and
that
we're
suggesting
one
hundred
and
fifty
that
we
need
some
more
research
on
what
a
special
inspection
is.
J
Is
there
anything
else
on
here
that
causes
some
issues,
because
I
guess
what
I'm
gonna
ask
the
mayor
to
do
is
if
you
could
prepare
recommendation
for
us
that
we
could
kind
of
look
at
and
then
we'll
put
it
into
the
mix
with
the
rest
of
these
ordinances
that
are
going
to
run
December.
Just
you
know,
in
December
and
that'll
give
some
people
time
to
sort
of
chew
on
the
increases
and
call
us
or
not
call
us
or
whatever,
and
then
we
would
be
able
to.
If
we've
got
some
differences
of
opinion.
B
J
A
J
D
C
F
Before
I
left
to
do
a
detailed
analysis,
but
I
though
I
sent
that
up
I
think
the
one
thing
I
only
that
I
kind
of
wanted
was
most
of
the
areas:
look
fine
on
personnel,
but
there's
seven
pay
periods
left,
plus
longevity
and
holiday
pay
and
the
police
and
fire
departments.
So
it's
really
a
little
closer
than
that,
but.
F
F
J
B
J
The
other
one
of
this
is
recommendation
of
the
of
the
from
the
pay
study
I'd
like
to
talk
about
I
passed
this
out
to
you.
It's
got
a
little
green
highlight
on
it
under
recommendations
and
the
the
headline
on
this
is
the
last
year.
Well,
when
we
changed
the
nineteen
in
pay
scale,
we
as
part
of
that
change.
We
recommended
that
a
market
study
be
done
periodically,
so
that
we
were
could
have
some
confidence
that
the
pay
scale
was
reflective
of
market.
J
That
was
one
of
the
goals
that
we
had
when
we
redid
the
pay
scales
that
people
are
gonna,
try
to
be
more
responsive
to
market
at
a
certain
percentage,
and
so
we've
had.
The
study
happened
last
year
there
were
some
recommendations
that
we
ought
to
make
a
shift
in
the
whole
scale
to
be
aligned
more
closely
with
market.
J
Well,
we
didn't
do
anything
with
that
last
year,
because
we
were
kind
of
the
one
to
be
conservative
with
regard
to
base
expenditures,
know
as
the
recommendations
indicate,
this
doesn't
mean
everybody
gets
a
raise,
it's
the
moving
of
the
scale.
What
this
does
is
increase
the
potential
for
growth
within
the
scale.
J
Now
the
other
practical
piece
of
it
is
that
it
does
introduce
the
possibility
that
people
who
are
now
topped
out
in
the
scale
would
have
movement
whatever
some
movement
at
the
top,
where
they
could
get
a
base
increase
depending
on
what
the
the
race
pool
is.
On
the
other
hand,
the
low
end
salaries,
the
starting
salaries,
would
also
go
up
alright,
so
those
are
the
those
are
the
and,
to
the
extent
that
if
we
raise
the
scale,
someone
is
below
the
minimum.
For
example,
we
we
generally
don't
like
to
have
people
below
the
minimum.
J
So
that's
what
this
is
I
would
like
you
to
just
take
a
look
at
it
and
we'll
put
it
on
a
subsequent
agenda,
because
it's
one
of
the
big
it's
it's
a
moderately
big
decision
item
for
us.
We
haven't
moved
the
scale
in
some
time
and
if
we
choose
to
do
it,
it'll
have
some
ramifications
that
we
just
need
to
be
aware
of.
J
B
J
B
D
J
J
J
F
You
go
in
steps
which
our
percentage
points
we'd
have
to
recalculate
those,
but
we
would
still
get
from
the
new
base
to
the
midpoint
in
a
seven
step
process,
you'd
be
hired
in
six
months
later
you
go
to
step
two
and
then
one
year
in
between
each
other
step
and
then
you're
in
the
area
of
whatever
the
raised
pool.
That
council
is
able
to
establish,
as
is
usually
the
norm
and
those
grade
levels
unless
there's
been
some
exceptional
performance.
F
But
the
department
is
also
limited
by
the
total
raised
pool
that
they
have
for
that
department
too.
So
most
of
them
will,
unless
something
exceptional
has
happened,
pretty
well
come
close
to
it.
Raise
pool
that
council
establishes
as
our
guiding
principle
that
we
give
to
those
people
above
the
midpoint.
B
J
After
that,
it's
an
open
range
okay,
and
so
what
and
I
should
have
clarified
that?
What
this
recommendation
suggests
is
that
we
don't
raise
the
entire
scale,
but
we
take
the
lowest
pay
rate,
pay
dirt
pay
grades,
one
through
five
and
do
and
raise
those,
because
we
have
a
whole
set
of
how
many
pay.
How
many
grades
do
we
I
forgot,
I?
Believe
it's
nine!
We.
C
J
Nine
and
so
we're
taking
a
little
over
half
the
scale
and
raising
it
up.
It
has
the
effect
of
tilting
the
curve,
if
you
think
about
it
in
terms
of
a
curve,
we're
tilting
the
bottom
of
the
curve
up
to
line
it
up,
so
it
creates
it
does
create.
Does
that
that
phenomenon
of
creating
room
at
the
top
does
occur,
but
it
only
occurs
at
the
base
pay
grades,
one
through
five.
What
types
of
jobs
are
we
talking
about
we're
about
custodial
positions?
No,
no!
We're
not
talking.
K
K
F
K
J
B
J
If
we
have
money,
alright,
well,
we'll
get
a
sense
of
that,
we'll
put
it
on
the
agenda
for
next
time.
Okay,
any
other
work
we're
doing.
If
you
look
at
our
list
of
things,
we've
got,
we
still
have
a
lot
of
things
to
talk
about
what
we're
starting
to
it's
starting
to
take
shape.
Now,
once
we
begin
to
once
we
have
some
confidence
in
revenue,
then
we
can
begin
to
look
at
expenses
mayor.
When
did
you
want
to
talk
about
the
mix?
That's
another
large
item
that
we
want
to
address
it
well.
F
F
Police
fire
for
all
the
general
general
offices,
recreation
and
capital
improvements.
A
lot
of
this
was
going
to
be,
and
we
won't
really
know
it
until
January
when
we
know
what
the
the
carryover
balances
in
each
fund
are.
But
by
the
time
we
get
to
November
reports,
we
have
that
and
usually
the
first
to
know.
F
A
F
Cut
that
all
went
into
the
general
fund,
we
had
a
nice
balance.
Then
we
ran
into
the
problems
that
we
had
this
summer
and
spent
probably
two
to
three
times
as
much
as
the
carryover
balances.
I
thought
we
were
going
to
this
year,
and
so
it's
brought
it
down
quite
a
bit
so
that,
in
order
to
have
a
good
street
maintenance
program,
I
think
we
have
to
increase
the
mix
there.
Okay
or
dip
even
heavier
by
industry,
rehab
phone
to
do
the
contracted
out
services.
F
B
Believe
anybody
can
do,
could
I
ask
when
we
get
to
that
point.
Could
we
talk
about
what
Maximus
said
about
cost
recovery
in
the
wreck
fund?
Some
time
seemed
to
me
like.
There
are
some
issues
there
that
are
even
more
profound
and
code
enforcement.
Mmm-Hmm
and
you
know
I,
don't
know
I
mean
with
respect
to
largest
suggestions,
not
to
be
a
pain.
No.
F
I
think
it
is
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
influenced
the
way
Maximus
was
doing.
That
was
the
high
cost
of
the
community
center
and
even
amateur
tizen
a
six
and
was
at
six
and
a
half
million.
We
spent
on
that
seven
million-
even
advertising
that
over
fifty
years,
because
it
was
a
recent
cost
where
it
really
impacted
your
space
rent
holes
and
even
when
they
broke
it
down
by
Fitness,
Center
versus
gymnasium
and
the
others.
A
F
I
didn't
know
it
as
quite
as
much
as
I
didn't
think
the
impact
was
gonna,
be
a
great
in
the
community
center
I
knew
the
pool
was
one
that
we.
It
was
very
easy
just
to
look
at
the
expenses
and
the
revenue
over
the
years
and
you'd
have
a
good
year
and
get
close
to
breaking
even
just
on
operating
costs.
But
you
never
recoup
your
capital
cost.
J
B
J
J
F
D
F
K
D
E
J
B
G
E
B
J
A
B
Terms
of
benefit
package,
though
I
was
just
wondering
if
it's
probably
not
the
right
time,
it's
never
the
right
time,
but
maybe
going
more
toward
well
baby
care
and
some
of
that
in
our
insurance
offerings,
I,
don't
know
if
that's
even
a
possibility.
It's
seemed
to
me
that
we
could
change
some
of
our
I
know.
So
when
I
talk
to
Beverly
before
about
it,
what's
the
plan.
J
It
should
come
up,
I
mean
we're
gonna
talk
about
medical
on
the
14th,
so
you
might
as
well
just
throw
it
in
I.
Just
I,
don't
know
we're
not
gonna
have
it.
We
won't
be
able
to
cost
out.
We
won't
be
able
to
do
any
sort
of
costing
out
of
options,
but
we
can
at
least
put
the
options
out
on
the
table
under.
J
Well,
I,
what
I
have
on
the
14th
is
medical
contracts,
parens
chamber
and
then
staffing
levels.
What
I
have
for
the
31st
is
pay
scale
and
raise
pool
just
those
two
items
and
then
on
28th
on
the
28th
I
have
mix
and
then
I
sort
of
put
in
rec
fund
and
what's
gonna
happen,
28
there's
a
lot
of
the
stuff
that
we
haven't
been
able
to
get
to
we're.
Gonna
need
to
talk
about
that
night,
meaning
well
either
that
and-
and
some
of
this
stuff
goes
rather
quickly
once
the
big
pieces
get
put
together.
J
E
I
wonder
at
what
point
in
this
process
we
start
to
have
a
spreadsheet
to
play
with
that.
I
know
that
last
year
there
was
a
point
where
you
started
having
something
that,
even
though
it
was
rough
and
it
was
changing,
you
were
able
to
email
to
folks
who
wanted
to
look
at
some
of
the
detail
that
was
getting
put
together
so
kind
of
we're
in
this
timeline.
Do
you
think
we
might
have
that.
F
So
without
that
I've
already
done
projections,
because
we
don't
have
either
a
police
or
a
fire
contract
for
2006,
because
both
of
those
are
expiring
in
2005,
so
I
just
had
to
make
some
projections
and
of
course,
I've
done
all
of
the
elected
officials.
That
was
pretty
easy
and
ivory
slotted
and
done
some
of
that.
So
I've
got
a
rough
one
right
now,
it's,
it's
probably
I
would
say
20
25
percent
done
at
this
stage,
but
I
can
ship
that
out
in
the
morning
some
people
wanted.
D
D
A
J
F
The
most
item
of
there
was
in
Parks
and
Recreation.
We
have
some
capital
money
left
and
if,
with
the
switch
to
supply
items
of
you,
know
the
thousand
dollar
thing
plus
we
have
received
through
the
programs
that
we
ran
this
summer,
like
the
skateboard
park
fundraiser
and
some
of
the
others,
we've
gotten
some
donations
from
various
areas
that
we
never
increased
our
budgets
in
those
areas
for
it
so
now
they're
getting
a
little
tight
and
it's
it's
time
to
make
some
changes.
They're,
probably
twelve.
Thirteen
thousand
dollars
you're
talking
about
in
the
supply.
Okay,.