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From YouTube: Fred Haise: From Biloxi to the Moon
Description
August Taconi recently sat down with Fred Haise and the Biloxi native and Apollo 13 Lunar Module Pilot recounts his fascinating life, from growing up on Back Bay, to his days with NASA, his pioneering time with the Space Shuttle and his harrowing plane crash. The city commissioned the documentary to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Apollo 13 and to celebrate Fred Haise, the most famous person in Biloxi's history.
A
B
A
C
C
Okay,
I
was
I,
was
born
at
the
old
Block
C
Hospital
on
the
beachfront
back
in
1933
November
of
1933
and
as
we're
first
home
we
lived
in,
was
actually
a
duplex
on
Lemieux
Street,
just
over
the
railroad
tracks
about
four
houses.
Up
from
the
marks
root,
beer
factory
and
I
spent
all
I
was
it
very
interested.
I
spent
a
lot
of
time.
I
walked
down
the
street
and,
looking
ahead
a
side
window,
you
could
look
in
at
all
the
mechanical
aspects
of
box
bottles.
C
13
flight,
hey
story
at
single
box,
Street
I
have
two
sisters:
Brenda
Brenda
Johnston,
who
was
seven
years
and
five
months
younger
than
I
and
even
a
younger
daughter,
is
actually
I
was
starting
to
head
off
to
college
was
my
sister
Edie.
There
was
17
years
younger
than
me,
and
so
that
was
the
family
I
had
no
brothers,
I
was
the
oldest.
My
mom
was
just
a
a
homemaker.
During
most
of
that
period,
I
did
work
for
the
VA
center,
initially
at
the
Biloxi
facility
and
I
forget
which
shop
well.
C
Initially,
he
was
in
the
boiler,
room
and
I.
Remember
sometimes
there's
a
little
kid
I'd
go
with
him
to
work
and
spend
a
few
hours
in
this
boiler,
room
that
was
furnishing
the
steam
for
the
heating
and
heating
water
and,
again,
all
that
machinery
down
in
that
sort
of
basement
area
wanted
to
mean
near
them
on
the
main
hospitals.
He
then
took
over
one
of
the
shops,
I'm,
not
sure
as
a
carpenter,
a
machine
shop
and
eventually
ran
all
the
shops
both
at
the
Block
C
facility
and
later
also
the
Gulfport
facility.
C
My
dad
was
a
good
handy
person.
Could
do
almost
anything
any
type
of
pass
that
way?
Well,
it
was
a
very
simple
easy
kind
of
life.
I
guess
I
described
it,
you
were
free.
I
had
really
had
no
bicycle
until
I
got
to
being
a
paperboy,
but
you
ran
everywhere
even
like
school.
At
gorn
flow
right
down
the
block.
I
just
run
the
school.
C
The
bicycle:
when
I
was
in
junior
high
12
years
old
and
started
as
a
paperboy
for
the
Boxee
Gulfport
Daily
Herald
paper
route
was
route
16,
which
ran
from
Cruces
to
Main,
Street
East
West
and
ran
from
Beach
Boulevard
to
Howard
Avenue
north
south
had
100
spud
170
papers.
Most
time
roughly
big
route,
Chester
Ozuna
had
the
biggest
route
he
had
to
one
way
out.
The
city
limits
at
Roden,
Berg,
Avenue,
ya
area
and,
and
we
rolled
him
except
for
Thursday's,
the
Thursday
papers,
which
had
all
grocery
store
heads
and
big
heads.
C
Normally
you
you
had.
Eventually
we
got
rubber
bands
to
put
around
them
because
you
tried
to
roll
those.
You
normally
break
them,
they're
split,
but
that
was
an
afternoon
route
so
that
somewhat
prohibited
me
from
being
in
sports
in
high
school,
because
that
was
any
sport
you'd.
Normally
the
training
was
after
school
and
I
did
play
nighttime
softball.
C
We
were
bored
at
a
lot
of
times.
Waiting
for
the
papers
to
come
in
the
papers
were
printed
in
Gulfport,
so
we
had
to
wait
till
a
truck
came
to
Biloxi
to
drop
them
all
out
for
our
various
routes
to
start
to
work
really.
So
in
an
interim
we
would
do
things
like
one
thing:
I
guess,
you'd
call
it
start
of
teamwork
and
Tammy.
It
required
two
people
to
do
the
the
thing
is
when
a
car
went
by
and
I
think
it
was
Jackson
Street.
C
It
goes
right
by
the
bend
the
Harrell
office,
one
boy
would
go
out
and
slap
on
the
fender
of
a
car
going
by
the
back
fender
and
another
boy
would
go
lay
down
on
the
street,
so
I'd
make
the
people
think
they
had
run
over
somebody
and
laying
in
the
street
behind
him.
So
you
know
we
did
fun
things
like
that
to
pass
the
time.
C
Yes,
I
did
I
accidentally
that
the
pick
the
paper
business
and
the
way
that
it
was
set
up
was
by
mr.
EP
Wilkes.
He
was
the
owner
of
the
paper
at
that
time
and
was
like
you
were
running
a
small
business.
You
bought
the
papers.
There
were
two
cents
of
paper.
It
was
a
six-day
paper,
didn't
have
a
Sunday
paper.
Most
people
either
got
the
mobile
register.
The
Times
begin
for
Sunday
paper
and
at
two
cents
of
paper
that
was
12
cents
for
six
days
and
you
charge
the
customer,
20
cents
and
170
papers.
C
Roughly
P
ended
up.
I
was
earning
almost
$17
a
week,
which
is
very
good
money,
but
it
was
up
to
me
to
do
the
collections
and
I
had
to
keep
a
set
of
books
on
the
route
and
the
customers
and
X
off
by
the
week
when
they
paid
or
didn't
pay,
and
that
kind
of
thing
today
I'm
going
to
mr.
Wilkes.
He
was
also
my
Scoutmaster
in
Troop
212
in
the
scouts,
so
he
was
a
good
mentor
in
that
sense,
as
well
with
some
of
the
values
you
learn
and
Scouty
I
did
after
after
work.
C
In
high
school
paper,
I
went
off
to
college
and
continued
with
the
thought
of
going
into
journalism
as
a
career
summers.
I
still
worked
for
the
Daily
Herald
as
a
part-time
reporter
I
was
kind
of
junior
to
Jack
Nelson.
Who
was
the
big
reporter
at
the
time,
and
a
very
good
boss,
I
had
overall
was
Cosman
Eisendrath.
He
was
that
he
was
the
big
news
leader
at
the
Biloxi
office
and
at
that
perkinston
I
again,
the
first
year
was
Parkinson's.
Unity
College
was
the
only
campus,
then
later
Mississippi
Gulf
Coast
grew.
C
April
of
54
Alice
I
was
at
that
time.
I
was
a
marine
cadet
graduation
and
earned
a
commission
as
a
second
lieutenant
into
the
Marine
Corps
I
went
back
briefly
to
Texas
for
jet
training
and
then
was
assigned
to
a
marine
Fighter
Squadron
at
Cherry,
Point
North
Carolina.
At
that
time,
flew
banshees.
There
were
two
engine
fighter
bomber
in
the
first
squadron
BMF
533,
which
no
longer
exists;
I'm,
sorry,
it
does
exist.
C
Second,
marine
squadron
I
went
into
BMF
for
114,
had
Cougars
a
swept-wing
Grumman
airplane
jet.
That
now
has
been
disbanded.
Pmf
port
114
does
not
exist
anymore.
In
training.
Of
course,
the
Jets
I
flew
at
that
time
was
called
the
TV
one
or
TV
two
Navy
version
of
the
shooting
star
and
but
other
after
flying
with
the
Marine
Corps
I
actually
went
to
back
to
school
to
get
an
engineering
degree
because
I
had
reading
books
that
got
interested
in
becoming
a
test
pilot
and
to
be
a
test
pilot.
C
It
requires
you
to
also
be
an
engineer.
Not
just
fly
the
airplane,
but
to
be
a
part
of
the
development
in
testing,
then
about
ultimately
testing
of
the
vehicle.
So
I
went
back
to
school
at
the
University
of
Oklahoma,
the
most
convenient
reason
being
the
very
convenient
and
they
had
a
slot
open
was
to
join
the
Oklahoma
International
Guard.
C
Also
a
fighter
squadron
so
I
could
keep
my
currency
and
high-performance
aircraft
while
going
to
college
for
three
years
at
OU
you
to
get
a
degree
in
aeronautical
engineering
and
by
that
time
I
had
searched
out
whether
to
become
a
company
test
pilot
investigated
at
several
companies.
My
squadron
commander
at
the
time
had
started
at
one
time
as
an
engineer
at
NASA
Langley
and
he
recommended
I
look
at
joining
NACA
when
we
first
talked
because
NASA
had
not
become
NASA
yet,
but
at
the
time
I
graduated.
C
Now,
at
the
time
I
joined
NASA
at
Lois,
the
first
seven
astronauts
had
been
chosen,
and
but
it
was
not
apparent
that
there
would
be
anything
beyond
that
program
Mercury.
So
most
of
us
thought
well
I'll
test
whether
humans
can
survive
in
space
fly
those
pros
flights,
and
that
would
be
it.
That
would
be
the
space
program,
so
really
was
until
the
later
announcement
of
Apollo.
C
That
turned
me
on
the
thinking
of
getting
into
the
astronaut
program
by
then
I
had
moved
to
Edwards
Air
Force
Base
in
NASA's
flight
research
center,
which
really
was
their
premiere
aircraft
test
base
operation
and
had
the
x-15
program
going
on
at
that
time,
and
it
was
when
I
was
there
that
I
decided
I'd
apply
for
the
astronaut
program,
which
for
me
was
just
another
transfer.
I
was
already
a
NASA
employee,
so
it
was
just
another
transfer
and
moved
to
Houston
to
the
manned
spacecraft
Center,
which
is
now
named.
Johnson
Gemini
program
was
under
way.
C
The
Apollo
program
was
in
the
background
that
was
going
to
happen
when
I
joined
NASA.
Well,
let
that
was
the
reason
I
transferred.
It
was
funny
at
one
point
Neil
who
it
was
ahead
of
me
about
three
years:
Neil
started
with
NASA
at
Louis
and
went
to
Edwards
and
then
Neil
applied
and
went
into
the
astronaut
program.
He
visited
back
at
Flight,
Research,
Center
and
Don
Malek
and
I.
Another
pilot
talked
to
him
and
asked
him
once
I
like
to
be
an
astronaut
Nilsa
summary
for
us
was
well.
C
You
attend
a
lot
of
meetings,
you're
sitting
a
simulator,
a
lot
and
you
don't
do
much
good
flying,
so
that
was
Neil,
summary
of
being
an
astronaut.
But
you
know
you
don't
fly
to
space.
That
often,
where
is
that
Edwards
we
were
flying
every
day.
Something
I
was
normally
involved
in
three
different
test
programs.
At
the
same
time,
so
I
had
to
think
real
hard
about.
C
C
You
go
through
a
rookie.
At
that
time,
a
year
of
training,
I
think
today
they
just
put
the
latest
group.
Through
two
years
we
were
supposed
to
have
a
year
of
call
it
rookie
training
and
it
turned
out
things
got
so
busy
and
the
early
development
of
this
Apollo
vehicles
command
module
lunar
module,
the
spacesuits
that
they
needed
us
to
do,
support
roles
following
the
development
of
various
parts,
and
so
I
really
only
got
about
probably
nine
to
ten
months
of
that.
C
Rookie
training
before
I
got
a
first
assignment
two
under
Jim
McDivitt
and
that
crew,
who
were
slated
to
fly
the
first
lunar
module
in
Earth
orbit
on
a
mission
and
Jim
McDivitt,
ed,
Mitchell
and
I
who
later
walked
on
the
moon,
reported
to
Jim,
and
he
gave
us
simple
instructions.
He
said
I
want
you
to
go
to
growin
the
company
that
was
building
the
lunar
module
and
I
want
you
to
make
sure
I
got
a
good
limb
to
fly.
That
was
it
so
ed
and
I
between
us.
C
C
Now
you
got
your
crew
assignment,
so
it's
kind
of
a
mystery.
It
was
mostly
done
between
deke
Slayton,
who
was
head
of
flight
operations
at
the
time
and
Al
Shepard,
who
was
head
of
the
astronaut
office
and
I,
think
they
thought
of
land
up
the
crews.
Generally
speaking
as
I
found
out
later,
when
I
was
named
backup
commander
of
16,
they
were
one
of
them,
call
you
in
the
office
and
tell
you
your
position
and
suggest
who
might
be
with
you
on
the
crew
and
give
you
an
opportunity
to
say
that
was
acceptable
or
not.
C
So,
at
any
rate,
my
first
assignment
was
really
because
Mike
Collins
having
a
medical
problem.
He
was
on
the
prime
crew
of
Apollo
8
and
could
not
fly
the
mission
because
of
that
so
Jim
Lovell,
who
was
on
the
backup
crew,
moved
up
to
that
prime
crew
assignment
and
that
opened
a
position.
So
my
first
real
crew
assignment
was
as
the
backup
lunar
module
pilot
on
Apollo
8,
with
Neil
Armstrong
and
Buzz
older.
We
were
the
backup
crew.
C
We
had
simulators
both
at
Houston,
only
single
command
module
and
one
land
lunar
module.
We
had
to
command
module
simulators
and
one
lunar
module
at
Kennedy,
where's
its
where,
when
you're
closest
to
get
in
the
fly,
you'd
use
those
simulators.
These
were
configured
just
like
the
real
spacecraft.
If
you
went
in
the
command
module
similar,
you
laid
it
in
a
couch.
We
cheated
because
most
time
we
weren't
in
our
space
suits
for
padding,
so
they
had
pads
to
lay
on.
C
But
the
instrument
panel
is
exactly
geometry:
wise,
the
real
spacecraft,
everything
in
there
exactly
like
the
spacecraft
interior.
The
systems
through
a
computer
functioned
just
and
gave
you
emulation
symptoms,
readings
on
meters,
exactly
as
if
the
systems
were
really
operating,
they
also
could
impart
Faiers
what
we
call
credible
Faiers
in
the
system's
fact:
the
command
module
simulator.
C
At
this
point,
yes,
I
was
married
to
Mary
Griffin
grant.
She
was
one
of
the
three
three
grant
daughters
to
bill,
grant
William
Grant,
who
had
the
grant
drugstore
at
the
time.
Mary
Griffin
was
the
middle
middle
child
and
at
the
time
I
flew.
We
had
three
children
and
one
child
on
the
way
Mary
was
pregnant
at
the
time.
Well,
I
say
that
was
a
problem
because
you
were
gone
all
the
time
when
you
were
on
a
mission,
everything
literally
everything
we
did
wasn't
where
you
live
at
Houston.
C
The
simulators,
mostly
we
used
were
in
Florida.
If
you
were
testing
the
real
spacecraft,
you
were
at
the
North
American
plant
in
California,
or
the
one
and
Grumman
that
was
building
in
New
York,
that
was
built
in
the
lunar
module
and,
of
course,
in
tests
when
they
arrived
at
Kennedy
when
they
were
getting
ready
to
get
launched
and
for
the
Apollo
landing
missions.
I
was
on
11
13
and
16.
C
C
C
He
told
the
medics
about
that
and,
of
course
they
did
dipped
in
a
bunch
of
testing
taking
blood
almost
every
morning
and
sending
it
somewhere
for
analysis
somewhere
for
analysis
and
three
days
before
launch
was
determined
and
a
decision
made
that
Ken
Mattingly
being
a
bachelor
had
never
been
married.
It
never
had
measles
as
a
child
was
very
likely
to
come
down
with
measles
during
the
flight,
so
he
was
removed
and
Jack
Swigert.
The
back-up
command
module
pilot
replaced
him
two
and
a
half
days
before
launch.
C
Well,
at
the
time
that
happened,
Jim,
Lovell
and
I
were
down
in
the
landing
craft.
The
other
module
we
had
we
had
looked
at
TV
shows
that
had
been
shown
on
previous
missions
and
Jim
and
I
decided
to
use
the
lunar
module
as
our
stage
for
a
planned
TV
show
using
equipment
that
we
knew
had
not
been
talked
about
before.
C
So
it's
kind
of
a
show-and-tell
setting
and
Jack
Swigert
was
all
alone
left
in
the
command
module
to
watch
over
things
at
the
time
they
just
after
it
wasn't
very
long
after
we
finished
and
closed
off.
The
TV
show
this
Big
Bang
happened
kind
of
rattled
through
the
the
vehicles
or
metal,
so
it's
kind
of
like
if
you're
inside
of
a
big
barrel
metal
barrel
and
so
I
hits
on
it
with
a
sledge
hammer
rocket
little
small
rocket
engines
that
normally
hold
attitude
were
firing.
C
We
could
feel
some
motion
not
very
not
very
much
motion,
but
some
motion
of
the
vehicles
and
so
instantly
we
knew
this
is
not
normal.
This
is
something
wrong:
Jim
Lovell!
It's
had
drifted
up
into
the
command
module.
By
that
time,
Jack
Swigert
had
made
the
call
Houston
we've
had
a
problem
here
and
Jim
repeated
it,
because
Houston
did
not
reply.
The
jack
and
I
shortly
also
floated
up
at
zero-g
back
to
my
position
in
the
right
couch.
C
C
But
I
was
sick
to
my
stomach
with
disappointment,
because
I
knew
losing
even
one
of
the
two
tanks
meant
we
weren't
going
to
get
the
land
on
the
moon
took
some
time,
a
troubleshooting,
in
fact,
Mission
Control
thought
for
18
minutes
because
of
the
different
array
of
caution
and
warning
lights
on
in
different
systems
that
were
not
related
in
any
way
that
it
was
false.
There
were
false
signals
and
something
that
happened
in
the
caution,
warning,
electronics.
D
C
E
F
C
That
time
we
were
asked
Jim,
Lovell
and
I
had
to
go
to
the
lunar,
module
and
power
it
up
the
thing
we're
gonna
land
on
the
moon
with
it
was
the
second
spacecraft
and
could
serve
as
a
home
a
lifeboat.
They
called
it.
That
would
give
us
a
buyer.
Mental
system
give
us
communication.
It
could
give
us
the
thrusters
to
control
all
the
things
we
would
need
in
the
interim
period
to
work
our
way
back
home.
C
So
that's
what
we
did,
but
we
Gemini
left
and
got
very
busy
powering
up
the
lunar
module
and
the
critical
step
was
train
furring,
the
inertial
measuring
unit
angles,
which
is
the
device
that
tells
you
how
to
point
very
accurately.
There's
it.
You
need
it
very
accurate
to
do
any
engine
maneuvers
to
change
the
path
the
trajectory,
so
we
could
manually
do
that,
but
Jack
given
us
the
readings
out
of
a
three
registers
called
noun
20s
that
Jim
could
manually,
he
demand
linked
them
into
the
limb
computer.
C
That
would
torque
that
platform
when
we
powered
it
up
to
those
angles.
So
we
had
a
good
platform
was
very
critical
at
the
time
we
were
not
going
around
the
moon
in
there
and
I'm
waiting
it.
What
got
us
home
if
we
had
done
nothing
from
that
point,
we
would
have
missed
the
earth,
but
I
think
about
later.
They
did
a
simulation
years
later,
figured
out
where
to
miss
the
earth
by
about
three
thousand
miles
and
probably
looped
around
the
moon
twice
more
before
eventually
entering
in
the
earth,
but
any
rate.
C
So
the
first
critical
thing
was
to
get
on
a
path
get
his
back
with
the
moon's
gravity
turned
to
get
roughly
back
to
home.
I
was
interesting
later
I.
First,
the
first
maneuver
done
Glynn
Lunney
had
taken
over
from
Gene
Kranz
as
a
flight
director,
and
the
guys
were
the
fighter
was
flight
dynamics.
Officers
were
arguing
about.
C
No
I
never
never
had
high
confidence
at
any
point.
That
we
had
all
everything
figured
out,
neither
did
the
ground.
This
was
kind
of
an
incremental
things
of
trying
to
stay
one
step
ahead.
As
things
came
up
like
mentioned,
the
lithium
hydroxide
that
took
some
time
over
a
day
to
realize
that
lithium,
that
its
carbon
dioxide
was
building
up
and
we
needed
a
way
to
get
rid
of
it
in
the
lunar
module
which
had
a
different
shape.
C
Cartridge
of
this
lithium
material
which
could
scrub
the
air
of
carbon
dioxide
did
not
have
enough,
because
we're
going
to
have
to
make
this
vehicle
last
for
days
versus
two
days.
So
they
had
the
jury-rigged
a
way
to
use
the
abundant
cartridges.
We
had
from
the
mothership,
which
was
a
square-shape
and
they
figured
that
out
and
actually
tested
it
in
a
chamber
in
building
seven
at
Houston,
and
they
had
a
limb
environmental
system
set
up
in
the
chamber
and
tested
that
it
worked
before
they
sent
the
instructions
up
to
us.
So.
C
C
The
the
first
two
maneuvers
we
did
the
first
one
to
get
us
around
the
moon,
the
second
one,
two
hours
after
we
passed
the
low
point
behind
the
moon,
was
also
using
the
computer
fully
automated.
That
was
great
because
that
shortened
our
time
on
the
return
by
10
hours
and
also
put
us
back
where
the
recovery
force
was
with
the
Iwo
Jima
aircraft
carrier
by
the
Samoan
Islands.
So
it
had
benefit
of
that
as
well.
C
The
next
two
Corrections
mid-course,
which
are
very
small
maneuvers,
not
very
long
used
first,
one
using
a
decent
engine
for
14
seconds.
Second,
one
about
22
seconds
using
the
400
pound
attitude,
thrusters,
all
four
of
them
firing
in
one
direction.
We're
done
to
correct
tweak
the
trajectory
on
the
way
home.
Those
were
all
done
manually
make
an
alignment
first
out
the
window
using
a
co
ass,
which
is
like
a
gun
sight,
Jim
Lovell
would
land
on
the
earth
costs
a.
G
C
Sale
and
on
the
edges
of
that
heifer
and
then
pitch
up
to
where
I
could
see
in
a
tell
periscope
a
ot
which
you
normally
used
to
shoot
stars
when
I
saw
the
Sun
coming
to
view
if
we
froze
the
attitude
and
that's
how
we
fixed
the
attitude
to
do
those
maneuvers
but
controlling
it
manually
for
those
very
short
periods
after
we
got
back,
I
talked
to
people
and
some
had
expressed
the
concern
about
the
heatshield
had
never
occurred
to
at
least
to
me.
The
heatshield
is
a
pretty
tough
material.
C
It's
the
very
tough
material
that
normally
is
used
to
dissipate
the
heat
by
somewhat
burning
away,
as
you
come
through
entry
I'd,
never
suspected,
because
when
we
saw
the
damaged
area
when
we
separated
the
service
module,
it
looked
like
the
quarter
of
the
space
craft
panel
had
blown
straight
out
in
a
way
not
downward
toward
where
the
heat
seal
was
so
and
it
didn't
look
like
there
was
that
much
shrapnel
or
anything
that
would,
it
could
have
damaged
it.
So.
C
C
We
were
somewhat
shocked
by
the
amount
of
damage
we
saw
because,
like
I
said,
a
1/4
of
the
spacecraft
had
blown
off
and
there
was
broken
wires
hanging
out
torn
thermal
blankets.
You
know
quite
a
bit
of
disarray
in
that
area
and
thinking
back
the
the
intent
of
the
explosion.
We
felt
did
not
seem
that
severe
frankly
for
what
were
the
damage
we
saw.
H
C
Yes,
following
that
mission,
we
did
some
public
affairs,
obviously,
which
is
pretty
traditional
after
a
mission.
Whoever
just
phone
was
put
on
a
circuit.
We
had
a
parade
in
Chicago
ticker-tape
parade
which
I
missed
I
would
I
had
got
Neil
with
a
urinary
tract
infection,
and
so
I
did
not
make
that
trip.
C
We
went
to
testify
to
a
congress
committee
a
lot
of
other
public
affairs
events
both
in
the
States
as
well
as
overseas,
but
within
a
month
deke
Slayton
called
me
in
and
told
me
I
had
an
another
new
job
as
the
backup
commander
to
Apollo
16.
So
I
was
very
happy
with
that.
I
thought
well,
here.
I
maybe
have
a
second
chance
to
get
back,
because
at
that
time
the
last
mission
to
the
moon
was
Apollo
19,
which
blind
16
was
ahead.
Me
fly
is
19,
so
I
was
happy.
C
C
I
was
I,
went
off
briefly
to
Harvard
Business
School.
A
long
range
I
was
interested
in
getting
in
the
program
management
and
I
got
back.
It
was
a
pressure-cooker
course
program
for
management,
development.
Four
months
course
and
I
went
into
the
orbiter
project
office.
So
I
really
went
into
program
management
on
early
shuttle
for
four
years.
C
So
I
was
there
from
day
one
when
we
were
evaluating
the
proposals
on
who
should
build
it
all
the
way
through
getting
it
through
the
design
phase
into
the
early
testing
phase
and
then,
of
course,
getting
ready
to
fly
the
first
vehicle
enterprise
and
at
that
time
I
was
really
surprised
and
happy.
I
was
named
as
one
of
four
people
that
were
going
to
get
to
fly
Enterprise
the
very
first
orbiter
we
built
at
a
program
out
at
Edwards,
Air
Force
Base
in
1977,
where
we're
going.
A
C
C
Never
flew
in
space.
I
was
designated
to
fly.
The
third
orbital
mission
at
the
time
I
would
have
stayed
had
we
kept
the
mission.
Jack
Lousma
was
going
to
fly
it
with
me
and
we
were
going
to
go
up
and
rescue
Skylab
Skylab
was
fixing
of
worried
about
falling
in
and
with.
No,
we
were
training,
including
building
a
little
kick
stage
powering
development,
a
little
booster
that
we're
gonna
fly
in
the
payload
Bay.
C
When
that
mission
went
away
the
mission
that
then
was
going
to
be
flown.
That
I
wasn't
interested
in
so
I
had
the
opportunity
to
become
an
aerospace
executive
at
Grumman
Corporation
in
New
York,
so
I
left
NASA
at
that
point
in
1979
that
was
while
I
was
in
the
program
office.
Actually
I
had
been
in
the
shuttle
program.
C
Office
and
I
was
doing
sport
flying
with
a
group
that
was
putting
on
air
shows
at
mainly
at
Galveston
or
Dallas
Fort
Worth,
mostly
in
the
Texas
area
using
world
war
ii
aircraft,
some
real
ones
at
b-17,
p40
I,
was
involved
in
the
opening
act
of
the
show,
which
was
using
a
number
of
aircraft
that
had
been
modified
to
look
like
Japanese
aircraft,
and
we
are.
We
staged
the
attack
on
Pearl
Harbor,
but
it's
a
pyrotechnic
set
up
in
the
field
and
we
actually
didn't
start
at
that
field.
C
We
started
at
another
field
and
came
roaring
in
like
the
attack
on
Pearl,
Harbor
and
I
was
flying
what
was
a
converted?
Ball
T
vibrator
bt,
13,
pre,
World
War,
two
trainer
that
had
been
converted
to
look
like
the
Japanese
vowel
dive
owner
and
one
day
I
was
just
bearing
it
from
a
short
distance
from
angles.
C
In
Texas,
where
it
had
been
kept
at
a
crop,
duster
seal
to
Galveston
shoals
field,
to
get
washed
up
on
a
rack,
we
head
there
to
get
ready
for
the
next
airshow
at
Dallas
and
I
got
to
close
on
an
airplane
ahead
of
me.
We
flew
in
formation,
you
know,
I
was
afraid.
I
was
going
to
run
over
them
over
on
the
runway
and
did
it
go
around
putting
the
power
on
and
at
about
300
foot
altitude?
The
engine
quit
so
I
switched
quickly.
C
Fuel
tanks
to
the
other
wing
tank
pump,
the
Wobble
pump,
which
is
a
little
hand,
pump
to
get
fuel
pressure
and
it
could
get
the
engine
to
sputter,
run
for
a
little
bit
and
then
quit
so
I've
milked
it
around
anyway.
I
was
headed
right
into
the
Gulf
of
Mexico
southbound
and
I
did
not
want
to
go
in
the
Gulf
because
they
had
a
fixed
gear.
Couldn't
raise
the
landing
gear.
Fixed
airplane
and
I
knew
if
I
went
to
golf
it'd,
probably
flip
over
upside
down,
and
it
was
shallow
water
I'd
be
trapped
in.
C
It
want
to
be
in
deep
water
if
you're
going
in
the
water
and
flip
over
so
anyway,
I've
baited
it
around
180
degrees
and
landed
on
the
far
west
side
of
Shoals
field
and
when
a
hit
and
some
not
necessarily
smooth
terrain,
eventually
ended
up
being
part
of
a
housing
project.
I
one
gear
broke
off
wing
dog
and
it
flipped
and
I
ended
up
upside
down
backwards
and
it
caught
on
fire
before
I
could
get
out,
because
the
canopy
was
jammed,
shut
and
I
had
to
kick
a
hole
to
get
out.
C
I
received
burns
over
65%
and
ambulance
was
already
on
the
way
the
person
about
a
block
over
saw
this
happen,
and
they
called
the
ambulance.
To
pick
me
up,
take
me
to
the
University
of
Texas
hospital
at
Galveston
to
the
burn
ward
there,
where
I
spent
the
next
three
months
going
through
the
taking
care
of
the
burns,
including
debris
and
and
eventually
grafting
before
I,
could
get
released.
C
Well,
as
you
said,
I've
received
a
lot
of
awards.
Some
feel
more
precious
I've
enjoyed
more
and
appreciated
more
because
they
were
from
peers,
like
from
Society
of
experimental
test.
Pilots
I
was
test
pilot
of
the
year
one
year
after
the
shuttle
test
and
because
that's
made
by
voting
of
your
peers,
this
one
is
also
exceptional
in
that
way.
This
is
by
my
hometown,
who
I
spent
a
lot
of
years
here
and
I'll
have
to
say:
I
was
chasing
those
rainbows
I
chased
in
the
dreams
of
more
adventures.
C
So
this
is
a
particular
honor
to
be
so
honored
I
hope
the
statue
serves
more,
is
not
as
Fred
Haise
thing
overtime,
but
as
a
representation.
If
you
grow
up
even
in
a
small
town
like
buxie
with
the
right
upbringing
and
the
right
training
and
education
along
the
way,
what
you
can
achieve
well,
what
what's
the
honor
you're
talking
about
there,
which
is
also
great,
is
the
a1
test,
stand
as
an
a1
there's
an
a2
and
the
beast
and
is
where
the
current
SLS
big
rocket
is
sitting
in
that
they're
going
to
test
shortly.
C
The
a1
stand
was
used
to
test
j2
engines,
which
were
the
engines
on
the
second
and
the
third
stage
of
the
Saturn,
so
I
sat
ER
and
I
flew
had
six
of
those
engines,
j2
engines,
so
there's
obviously
a
direct
infiniti
that
engines
I.
That
I
depended
on
that
got
me
on
my
way
to
the
moon
came
out
of
Stennis.
That
got
me
on
my
way.
So
it's
a
great
honor
later
it
did
a
lot
of
testing
on
the
shuttle
engines,
the
liquid
SS
amides.
C
C
They
decided
with
9/11
in
the
security
requirements
that
were
imposed
on
all
NASA
facilities,
but
at
Stennis
had
pretty
much
dampened
any
attendance
they
had
at
the
Stennis
fear,
which
is
a
small
museum
out
at
Stennis,
so
between
the
three
of
them
and
they
wanted
to
create
something
off-site,
and
so
the
way
that
sit
was
set
up.
It
was
with
a
not-for-profit
that
mr.
C
C
So
that's
why
I
joined
the
board
I've
been
retired
at
that
point
for
Mel,
Thor
Grumman,
and
so
that's
what
got
me
out
of
my
rocking
chair
to
join
the
board
here
and
I've
been
involved
ever
since,
well
that
they
have
a
plan
and
a
program
and
they're
developing
the
hardware.
At
this
point,
whether
it
meets
number
one,
the
schedule
that
got
laid
out
and
whether
ultimately
they
achieve
the
goal,
it
depends
on
the
annual
funding
levels.
C
Their
plan
requires
a
certain
funding
level
and
that
would
have
to
be
approved
through
administration
in
Congress,
and
it's
a
question
mark,
as
always
will
Congress
support
it
and
that
way,
I
think
we
should
be
going
back
to
the
end
there
and
also
Mars.
We
ought
to
continue
exploration,
not
just
with
people
but
the
unmanned.
A
work
that's
been
done
by
JPL
to
look
at
all
parts
of
our
solar
system,
and
hopefully,
if
we
find
the
right
exoplanet,
they
call
it.
C
C
This
suit
is
an
a7
l.
Suit
was
the
same
space
suit,
worn
all
through
the
Apollo
missions,
including
this
particular
one
for
the
people
who
landed
on
the
moon
and
walked
on
the
moon,
because
it
has
four
fittings
for
the
four
fittings
are
for
the
hoses
and
the
spacecraft
that
fed
you,
your
life
support,
oxygen
and
the
other
two
to
hook
up
the
backpack.
When
you
put
on
your
plis,
it
was
called
the
backpack
to
a
walk
in
the
moon.
C
You
hooked
up
to
those
fittings,
the
upper
left-hand,
one,
the
small
one
is
where
you
hooked
up
your
communication
to
talk
and
the
right-hand.
When
is
multiple
use
for
an
emergency
with
a
thing
called
LPS.
It
was
a
little
thing.
That's
set
up
on
top
of
the
backpack,
the
quest
that
gave
you
an
emergency
oxygen
supply.
So
do
you
have
a
problem
on
the
moon,
for
instance,
where
you
develop
a
hole
in
a
suit
or
leak,
you
could
use
that
emergency
oxygen
supply
to
get
back
into
landing
craft
safely
before
your
soup
deflated.
C
C
Implements
you
see
well,
one
is
the
helmet
see
we're
missing
a
pair
of
gloves
the
gloves,
as
you
see,
hooked
up
to
metal
rings
on
the
suit
on
each
arm
and
have
what
we
call
lock
locks,
in
other
words,
a
double
lock,
so
the
glove
could
not
come
off
and
the
same
on
the
neck
ring
wear.
This
helmet
here
would
be
hooked
up
now
in
this
suit.
You
wore
petty,
because
the
suit,
when
it
pressurize
is
still
with
the
pressure
in
it
and
with
very
places
it
rose.
C
If
you're
trying
to
move
like
your
wrists,
those
metal
rings
rub
so
I
actually
had
a
haircut
sucks
to
be
patting
on
my
wrist
area.
When
you've
tried
to
walk
lifting
your
foot,
even
you
hit
on
the
top
of
the
boot,
the
hard
boot
so
I
had
the
extra
padding
on
my
feet.
Songs
for
that
I
had
padding
on
the
shoulders
for
the
same
reason,
because
the
suit
would
rub
on
your
shoulders.
C
If
you
had
it
fit
right,
you
had
to
have
it
fit
tighter
than
you
would
normally,
because
when
it
pressurizes
stretched
like
that,
so,
for
instance,
you
had
to
pair
the
arms
fit.
So
when
you
had
the
gloves
on
and
one
pressurize,
you
had
to
come
hold
your
shoulders
back,
keep
your
pants,
your
fingers
from
being
too
tight
and
the
end
of
the
gloves
as
if
you
wanted
it
fitted.
So
when
the
pressurized
you
hid
the
fingers
right
at
the
ends
of
the
gloves.
C
This
suit
was
a
lot
of
work
to
use.
It
was
one
of
the
pressurize.
It
was.
A
state
tried
to
stay
in
one
position
like
the
arms
like
this
and
if
you
moved
or
squeezed
that
took
work
because
you're
working
against
the
suit
in
the
same
way,
if
you
walk
so
that's
why
you
saw
people
on
the
moon,
they
hopped.
It
was
easier
to
hop
than
the
walk.
So
that
was
a
thing
they
worked
out
too.
They
take
account
of
that.
Unfortunately,
this
suit
I
wore
on
the
Apollo
13
mission,
looks
very
clean.
C
It
doesn't
have
any
lunar
dust
on
it,
so
our
mission
got
scrubbed
after
an
oxygen
tank
explosion,
so
I
did
not
get
to
walk
in
the
moon,
but
I
wish
the
suit
looks
a
little
dirty
yet
here
some
of
the
other
implements
you
see
at
the
bottom
of
the
case.
Here,
that's
a
hammer
that
we
had.
You
actually
were
out
on
a
geology
survey
and
you
wanted
to
chip
a
rock
to
look
at
the
granular
structure
or
something
that
would
hammer
on
I'll
break
off
a
piece
of
rock
of
a
larger
rock.
C
You
could
do
it
with
that
hammer
device.
The
other
thing
was
much
like
it's
a
vise.
You
might
have
to
pick
up
trash.
Should
you
walk
along
the
street,
squeeze
it
and
we
grip
in
this
case
you'd
rip
a
small
rock
grab
small
rocks
without
having
to
bend
down
on
one
knee
or
anything
to
get
at
it.
So
that
was
what
that
tool
was
for
I'm,
not
sure
what
the
other
Baggett
here
is,
because
it's
it's
not
a
space
bag.
That's
a
bag!
We
carried
our
airplane
helmets,
it.