►
From YouTube: CAUD 2022.12.06
Description
CONTENTS
0:00:00 Call to Order
0:02:46 33 S. Washington St.
0:04:30 Water Street Proposed Parking Ramp
0:29:30 Ross Park Rec. Trails
0:38:00 Binghamton DECO Lighting Plan Updates
1:04:00 Signage Guidelines Discussion
C
C
A
No,
if
you
feel
comfortable,
leading
the
commission
through
the
Ross
Park
items
you
you
can
feel
free
to
do
so.
Just
let
me
know
Ken
will
be
arriving
he's
just
going
to
be
a
little
late.
A
Yes,
if
you,
if
you
want
to
do
it
that
way,
what
I
would
suggest
is
you
just
ask
if
there's
anybody
in
the
audience
present
who
wishes
to
speak
on
that
application,
since
you
are
moving
it
and
we
did
set
it
as
a
public
hearing.
D
E
D
D
B
B
C
B
B
B
D
D
But
Tony,
if
you
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
architecture
here,
sure
the
general
approach
to
the
building
well.
First
of
all,
we've
been
working
in
conjunction
with
representatives
from
the
city,
which
will
be
the
owners
of
Department
garage.
So
the
general
approach
there
is
to
create
a
very
straightforward
debate
to
the
maximum
of
the
time
story
structure,
and
on
top
of
that,
of
course,
it's
a
residential.
D
A
lot
of
what
we've
been
looking
at
it
that
at
that
portion
of
the
building,
has
to
do
with
alternative
openings,
but
also
it
kind
of
determine
ways
to
break
down
the
length
of
the
building.
So
we'll
be
looking
at
different
I'm.
Sorry
I'm
getting
a
little
bit
back
here.
D
So
it
sounds
right
now
we're
looking
at
different
planning
pipes
and
textures
and
colors
to
kind
of
break
up
that
just
that
length
of
the
variety
and
interest
so
that
it's
an
abuse
from
below
more
Publications
that
actually
deal
with
the
sort
of
an
interesting
part
of
the
exactly.
E
D
D
I
have
a
quick
question
regard
to
parking:
is
there
an
allotment
or
apportionment
for
electronic
vehicles
in
here,
I,
don't
know
if
it's
required
or
not
I'm,
you're
I'm,
seeing
them
everywhere
so
I
have
to
ask
it's
part
of
the
part
of
the
zoning
requirement
there.
There
is
a
requirement
so
we'll
work
with
the
city
to
make
sure
that
we're
meeting
those
requirements
will
also
continue
with
the
city
choir
Chief,
to
make
sure
that
you
know
they're
part
of
electric
vehicle
charging
stations
has
to
do
with
the
potential
of
fire
right.
D
So
we
have
to
make
sure
that
they're
adequately
equipped
to
deal
with
if
there
ever
was
a
fire
in
the
park
to
thrive
and
they
get
to
it.
I
mean
even
putting
it
out
so
we'll
we'll
be
working
conjunction
So.
The
plan
is
right
now,
according
to
this
particular
requirements.
Yet
we
will
be
working
through
that
with
the
city
and
good.
A
Can
everyone
hear
me?
Yes,
okay,
so
with
this
one,
what's
being
asked
of,
you
is
you're
not
acting
as
the
landmarks
preservation
commission
for
this
application,
because
it
is
not
within
the
historic
district.
It
is
adjacent
to
both
of
the
or
two
of
the
downtown
historic
districts.
So
that
is
something
to
consider,
but
your
review
is
purely
as
the
commission
on
architecture
and
Urban,
Design
and
so
you're
treating
this
as
as
new
development
by
the
city.
B
D
D
Okay,
Nick
you're
the
resident
architect.
Here
we
have
some
comments.
I
actually
had
a
comment
about
parking.
D
Are
there
parking
spaces
allocated
for
the
residential
units
above
the
historic.
G
D
To
the
residents,
but
the
residents
can
purchase
monthly
passes
department.
So
again
it's
really
a
function
of
if
anybody's
living
there,
whether
or
not
they
want
to
purchase
Cash
Road,
so
nothing
will
be
dedicated
necessarily
do
we
have
a
block
of
parking
spaces
that
will
not
be
able
to
be
purchased
that
would
be
available
on
a
daily
mail
like
25
40,
that's
available
well,.
D
Temporary
parking
so
against
the
people
coming
in
and
out
General
longer
term
will
be
up
above
there's
no
set
percentage,
I
think
and
that'll
be
something.
That'll
have
to
be
worked
out
with
the
city
on
the
market.
B
D
D
G
Of
so
we're
hoping
to
get
some
relief
to
the
planning
itself.
D
D
How
much
has
the
Assad
evolved
because
I
don't
remember?
Was
there
some
sort
of
screening
or
some
sort
of
like
it
looks
literally
like
a
parking
garage
with
a
apartment,
complex
right,
so
right.
G
On
top
of
it
right
so
the
as
part
of
the
original
RFP
there
was
as
part
of
The
Proposal,
some
screening
that
you
mentioned
before
that
came
down
at
the
corner
at
Water,
Street
and
or
Henry,
and
there
was
also
some
proposed
potential,
green
Wall,
Systems,
but
again
working
with
the
city
in
terms
of
both
in
terms
of
their
cost
of
the
parking.
D
Currently,
the
plan
is
for
Street.
Trees
to
you
know,
create
a
more
green
and
safe
and
healthy
street,
but
for
more
traditional
33
treatment,
as
opposed
to
a
more
complex
screen
wall
screen.
G
Just
and
just
to
add
to
that,
of
course,
the
building
that
we're
working
on
is
really
limited
to
the
boundaries
of
the
property,
but
but
there
will
be
this
is
the
water
stream
is
going
to
be
part
of
a
larger
study
in
terms
of
improving
the
streetscape?
Excuse
me,
which
might
include
actually,
the
expansion
of
the
sidewalk
along
the
side
of
the
building,
so
back
to
Jake's
point,
would
allow
or
accommodate
possibility
for
Street
trees
or
benches,
or
that
sort
of
thing
related
to.
E
D
A
John
I
have
one
quick
question
too:
yes
can
can
the
applicant
just
discuss
a
little
bit
what
the
wall
cladding
materials
will
be
the
surface
cladding
for
the
apartment
portion
of
the
building
I
just
want
to
just
clarify
it
on
the
record.
I'm.
G
Sure
they
can
sure
we'll
be
happy
to
so.
What
what
we're
proposing
right
now
is
to
provide
a
mix
of
fiber
cement,
Panel
System
cladding
system,
and
they
come
in
a
variety
of
colors
and
textures,
so
we're
proposing
one
of
the
fiber
cement
panels
that
we're
proposing
is
a
has
a
concrete
finish,
almost
very
natural
finish,
so
that
in
a
way
it
relates
to
the
batting
of
the
parking
structure,
the
structure,
the
structure
itself,
we're
also
looking
at
a
charcoal
fiber
cement
panel
and
also
a
fiber
cement
panel.
G
That
has
a
wood
like
look,
that's
kind
of
the
reddish
portion
of
hit
and
see
so
we're
trying
to
maintain
the
same
cladding
system
to
simplify
instructability
of
the
product.
We're
also
looking
at
the
possibility
of
a
formed
metal
panel
as
well
just
to
give
some
again
some
texture
relief
from
Shadow.
So
the
surface
is
not
all
all
appear
to
move
black
I
think
that's,
apparently
it
again
there
might
be
some
other
colors.
So
if
you
look
at
that
original
submission
packet,
I,
I,
hope,
you'll
see
the
number
of
different
panel.
G
D
G
Right
so
so,
where
you
see
sort
of
the
warmer
color
up
at
the
top,
that's
adjuster
and
I
built
to
try
to
match
or
not
match,
but
complement
the
parking
structure.
D
D
D
Okay,
are
we
looking
for
motion
of
approval,
Sean
or
or,
and
it's
okay?
What
exactly
are
you
looking
for.
D
D
Can't
compare
the
old
garage
to
this
new
structure
right,
two
different
things.
So
what
you're
asking
John
is
that
there's
certain
amount
of
spaces
that
are
allocated
towards
the
residential
units
above
the
garage
itself
correct
and
that's
not
what
he
was
saying,
he's
saying
they
are
available
and
you
can
purchase
them,
but.
F
Well,
yeah,
let
me
introduce
myself.
My
name
is
Jeff
smetana
I
work
with
the
United
group
of
companies
of
a
part
of
the
United
flight
joint
venture,
that's
developing
the
project
and
we've
been
involved.
We
responded
to
the
RFP
and
we've
been
involved
with
planning
on
the
apartments
into
the
garage
from
the
beginning.
F
So
the
the
garage
is
a
public
garage.
There
are
no
private
spacings.
The
understanding,
though,
for
the
apartments
is
that
120
monthly
passes
would
be
available
for
residents
to
purchase
similar
to
the
way
other
residents.
So
now
in
the
Old
Water
Street
Garage,
there
were
a
lot
of
students,
for
example,
who
lived
right
there
that
bought
monthly
passes
in
the
old
garage.
F
Also,
there
were
some
set
aside
spaces
for
some
of
the
retail
businesses
that
that
really
wasn't
appropriate,
but
that
won't
be
that
condition
going
forward
right
on
the
monthly
passes
and
the
under
right,
and
the
expectation
is
that
the
those
residents
will
most
likely
park
on
the
upper
floors
closer
to
the
apartments
which
are
the
less
desirable
for
the
for
the
daily
Parkers
and
as
Tony
was
pointing
out
also
that
off
of
Water
Street.
F
There's
a
section
of
the
garage
that
will
be
hourly
parkings
the
idea
that
will
turn
over
more
frequently
and
would
be
like
street
parking
like
metered
parking
and
then
there's
an
entrance
off
of
Henry
Street
that'll
act
it'll.
Allow
you
to
get
up
into
the
garage,
and
then
that
will
be
you
know
just
for
the
past.
You
know
either
you
can
be
hourly
or
weekly
or
monthly
parking
up
above
so
the.
F
F
That's
right
and
then
yeah
this
the
number
of
spaces
fluctuating
a
little
bit,
but
it's
approximately
500
Total
Space.
D
And
do
you
know
how
many
spaces
that
there
were
before
the
old
parking
garage
was
torn
down?
It.
F
So
it's
going
to
be
very
similar,
but
I
think
it'll
be
much
more
efficient.
I'll
try
to
balance
between
and
there's
also
going
to
be
additional
street
parking
with
the
way
the
street
has
been
realigned.
So
that
should
help
for
the
Boscov's
and
other.
F
Businesses
there
they
have
some
turnover,
your
lost
dog
and
other
other
businesses
that
are
there
to
still
have
that
high
turnover
and
then
you'll
have
those
lower
levels
of
the
garage
that
will
be
accessible
off
of
Henry
Street
and
then
again
the
long-term
Parkers
are
expected,
will
most
likely
be
parking
in
the
Upper
Floor.
Thank.
D
A
D
Want
me
to
I'll
make
a
motion,
but
you're
you're
still
want
me
to
frame
the
motion
related
to
the
parking.
D
B
D
So
I'm
on
the
mic
right
so
I'll
make
a
motion
for
183
Water
Street.
That's
the
correct
address
right!
D
Yes,
to
prove
what
was
presented
today
with
the
suggestion
of
potentially
looking
at
either
a
screen
wall
or
a
green
wall
along
along
the
street
Assad,
to
give
it
a
little
bit
more
interest
and
not
just
a
standard
parking
garage
that
is
presented
here
today.
G
So
the
general
intent
is
that
folks
entering
the
parking
garage
will
enter
from
the
Water
Street
side,
both
at
the
North
End
and
at
the
South
End.
They
once
they're
into
the
garage.
There
is
an
there
are
elevators
and
stairs
that
can
take
them
to
the
upper
levels.
B
D
A
C
D
H
D
Okay
I'd
like
to
turn
the
chair
position
back
to
the
recognized
chairman,
Mr
pen,
Ellsworth,
and
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
have
serve
this
commission
and
in
turn,
Vice
chairing.
A
Okay,
so
for
60,
Morgan
Road,
as
introduced
at
the
last
Commission
meeting,
called
set
a
public
hearing
to
perform
Seeker
review
before
the
restoration
and
Rehabilitation,
and
also
the
potential
creation
of
new
trails
at
Ross,
Park
and
included
with
the
materials
that
were
sent
out.
This
is
also
I
should
preface
this
is
part
of
a
grant
project
that
the
city
has
received,
funding
for
and
as
part
of
that
Grant
review
process.
We
we
have
to
conduct
a
initial
environmental
review,
and
so
that's
that's.
A
What
God's
purpose
is
today
and
so,
in
included
with
the
materials
that
were
sent,
there
was
the
adaptive
reuse
plan
that
is
sort
of
served
as
the
the
basis
of
the
project
it
was
utilized
when
we
applied
for
funding,
and
so
it's
sort
of
The
Guiding
document.
A
Further
design
will
be
provided
later
on
as
we
progress
with
the
project,
but
we're
not
at
that
stage.
Yet
so
again,
this
is
sort
of
the
initial
environmental
review
based
on
what's
already
been
created,
and
so
we
have
the
sort
of
areas
of
the
park
that
I
just
want
to
focus
on
are
the
the
primary
area
of
concern
here.
Is
this
hiking
trails
section
of
the
park
if
you're
familiar
with
with
Ross
Park
or
a
sort
of
ventured
past,
the
more
util
realized
areas
of
the
park?
A
That's
in
need
of
Rehabilitation
and
restoration,
and
the
goal
of
the
project
is
really
for
this
phase
and
for
what
we've
identified
as
the
as
the
the
primary
concern
of
of
the
grant
is
to
hopefully
utilize
the
grant
funding
to
establish
a
connection
between
the
historic
gate
portion
of
the
park
down
here
and
connect
it
up
to
the
hiking
trail
section,
which
then
sort
of
opens
up
the
historic
gate
area
to
the
rest
of
the
Park
via
the
hiking
trails
as
well,
and
so
again.
A
I'll
just
show
you
that
this
was
the
the
loop
trail
plan
that
was
created
again
in
2018.
Again,
that's
sort
of
served
as
the
as
the
primary
document
when
we
were
applying
for
funding,
and
you
can
see
that
there's
this
historic
gate
section
connecting
up
through
a
potentially
a
new
Trail
here
then
connecting
into
the
existing
trails
that
need
to
be
rehabilitated
up
here
so
again,
just
sort
of
going
through
there
were
three
different
phases
identified.
Initially,
this
project
will
primarily
focus
on
a
portion
of
this
gate
to
Carousel
phase
right.
A
The
gate
to
Carousel
portion
is
not
going
to
be
the
focus.
The
gate
to
the
existing
hiking
trails
will
be
the
focus
for
this
project
and
then
also
the
trails
to
gate
phase
right.
So
that's.
This
is
the
primary
area
of
of
concern
for
the
project
again
just
to
go
through
some
of
the
existing
conditions.
A
Right
and
we
have
these
sort
of
these
trails
that
aren't
as
utilized
quite
as
much
because
I
believe
people
don't
really
know
that
there
is
such
a
great
existing
trail
system
there
again,
there
are
some
structures
that
will
be
included
as
part
of
the
park,
such
as
like
wooden
bridges
and
underutilized
structures
along
the
hiking
trails,
like
this
Lookout
Point.
That
will
be
rehabilitated
as
part
of
our.
A
Underutilized
sort
of
restroom
facility
structures
as
well.
A
And
Cod
declared
this
as
as
a
unlisted
action
at
the
last
meeting.
So
this
is
very
similar
to
the
secret
process
or
that
that
you
all
perform
regularly
for
demolitions.
A
H
Okay,
thank
you
so
I
remember.
We
declared
as
a
lead
agency
and
an
unlisted
action
on
the
last
meeting.
Is
that
correct
Sean?
Oh
sorry,
that.
A
H
A
It
was
opened,
you
know
technically
it's
it's
open
right
now,
but
you
should
ask
invite
the
opportunity
for
anyone
to
speak
and
just
make
it
clear
on
the
record
that
the
this
is
open.
This
is
an
open
hearing.
H
Okay,
fine,
so
is
anyone
present
that
wants
to
speak
in
favor
or
against
the
action
that
the
application
that
we
have
in
front
of
us.
H
Seeing
or
hearing
no
one
do
I
make
a
motion
to
close
the
public
hearing,
Sean
I
believe
I.
Do
yes.
B
H
All
right,
thank
you,
which
one
of
you
two
would
like
to
read.
The
I
think
part
two.
You
think
Danny
kid
from
Christmas,
oh
she's
kind
of
guessing.
D
H
B
D
Right
Danny,
you
got
it
all
right.
Will
the
proposed
action
create
a
material
conflict
with
an
adopted
land
use
plan
or
zoning
regulations?
No,
will
the
proposed
action
result
in
a
change
in
the
use
or
intensity
of
use
of
land?
No
for
the
proposed
action,
impair
the
character
or
quality
of
the
existing
community?
No,
the
proposed
action
have
an
impact
on
the
environmental
characteristics
that
caused
the
establishment
of
a
critical
environmental
area.
D
No,
with
a
proposed
action
result
in
an
adverse
change
in
the
existing
level
of
traffic
or
affect
existing
infrastructure
for
mass
transit
biking
or
walkway.
No
will
the
proposed
action
cause
an
increase
in
the
use
of
energy
and
it
fails
to
incorporate
reasonably
available
energy
conservation
or
renewable
energy
opportunities.
No,
the
proposed
Action
Impact
existing
public
private
Water,
Supplies,
public-private
wastewater
treatment,
utilities
known
the
proposed
action,
impair
the
character
or
quality
of
important
historic,
archaeological,
architectural
or
aesthetic
resources.
No
well.
D
The
proposed
action
result
in
an
adverse
change
to
Natural
Resources
Wetlands
water
bodies,
groundwater
air
quality,
flora
and
fauna.
No,
the
proposed
action
result
in
an
increase
in
the
potential
for
erosion,
flooding
or
drainage
problems.
No
will
the
proposed
action
create
a
hazard
to
environmental
resources
or
human
health?
No.
H
Seconded
by
John,
can
you
roll
call,
obviously
Dan's
made
the
motion
very
own
John
has
seconded
Nick
I
I
pass.
Thank
you
Sean.
Is
that
complete
that
action
for
this
application.
A
Yes,
it
does
yep
yep,
okay,
it'll
come
back
at
once.
The
design
phase
is
further
along
it'll.
Come
back
to
the
commission
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness.
I
Good
afternoon
my
name
is
Jeff
Naj
landscape,
architect
with
Barton
or
Judas,
along
with
Jacob.
H
Okay,
thank
you,
Sean.
Is
there
anything
you
want
to
go
over
as
get
it
set
up
originally.
A
Yep
yep
so
I'll
just
reintroduce
this
right.
The
commission
reviewed
this
back
in
in
2021
for
The
Deco,
streetscape
improvements,
and
it
just
as
sort
of
as
these
projects
go.
I
thought
it
would
be
good
as
the
design
has
sort
of
developed
and
become
more
finalized
and
installations
have
begun.
It
wasn't.
A
You
know
perfectly
clear
on
the
record
at
the
first,
when
Cod
reviewed
this
initially
what
format
the
lighting
plan
would
take
and
so
I
we,
the
planning
department,
has
asked
for
the
applicant
to
return
and
sort
of
clarify
the
lighting
plan
that
that's
being
utilized,
and
it's
primarily
going
to
consist
of
essentially
three
major
lighting
sources
right
there.
These
Gobo
light
fixtures
which
allow
the
applicant
to
explain
Gateway
signs
with
lighting
and
catenary
light
fixtures
as
well.
That'll
exist
over
the
streetscape
and
I.
A
Just
to
let
the
applicant
know,
you
know
if
there's
things
they
want
on
a
reference.
I
have
the
photos
that
they
provided
as
well
as
the
plans
they
provided.
So
if
they
need
me
to
pull
anything
up,
I'm
ready
to
do
so.
F
I
Thank
you
all
yeah
I
do
have
the
packet,
if
you
guys
want
prints
for
that,
but.
I
I
For
your
benefit,
we
just
handed
out
a
package
same
information
that
was
sent
to
Juliet
a
couple
weeks
ago
includes
some
conceptual
images
for
the
lighting
and
then
a
parent
set
of
phase
one
plan
and
where
the
gobos
are
installed
and
where
they're
intended
lighting
Target
is
a
few
technical
electrical
plans
on
the
actual
spec
of
the
light.
A
couple
details
on
the
pole
and
then
our
shop,
drawing
information
on
the
actual
Gobo
fixture.
I
And
in
supplemental
to
that,
I
did
send
some
photos
to
Juliet
on
what
has
been
installed
to
date.
So
on
phase
one
we
do
have
two
holes
installed
for
the
Gobo
fixtures.
I
So,
what's
on
the
screen
right
now
are
the
three
polls
at
the
mid
block
Crossing
for
the
Canton
area
lights.
So
there's
some
string
LEDs
that
we're
going
to
go
over
the
mid
block
foreign.
I
There's
two
of
these
in
Phase
One
and
the
first
page
of
the
packet
basically
illustrates
these
are
essentially
accent,
feeder
lights,
so
they're
full
range
color.
They
are
rated
for
outdoor
use
all
season
and
they
do
provide
an
option
for
lenses.
So
there
are
five
lenses
in
the
contract
that
we
did
provide
to
the
city
and
they
actually
project
an
image
onto
the
sidewalk.
I
These
are
typically
used
in
Winter
installations
to
project
Lighting,
on
building
facades
and
and
other
surfaces
vertical
surfaces,
but
we
view
we
can
use
them
to
project
onto
the
pavement
as
well.
None
of
these
lights
could
project
into
the
vehicular
right
away,
so
everything's,
projecting
and
just
onto
The
Pedestrian
pavement
on
the
sidewalk.
I
I
So
this
would
just
be
projected
down
onto
the
sidewalk
near
The,
Pedestrian,
Crossing
and
then
the
second
Gobo
is
actually
on
the
northwest
corner
of
state
and
Lewis
I.
Think
both
of
these
are
actually
outside
the
Henry
State
Park
District,
it's
not
opposite
of
Lewiston
State.
I
So
again,
this
would
project
the
fixture
down
onto
the
pavement
surface
and
you
know
that
the
city
would
have
the
option
to
change
lenses
for
festivities
or
other
holiday
seasons
or
whatever.
This
idea
came
about
talking
with
Joshua
ludsky
in
the
initial
concept
of
this
project
and
kind
of
built
on
the
momentum,
it
was
Luma
festival
and
we
thought
would
this
be
in
the
arts
district
in
the
Forum
as
the
centerpiece
of
the
district.
You
know
this
was
kind
of
an
appropriate
accent
lighting
feature.
I
Well,
there
were
currently
three
in
the
phase
one
contract,
the
other
one,
was
actually
located
down
near
Depot
Street,
underneath
the
railroad
bridge
that
whole
segment
was
removed
from
the
contract.
We
are
holding
the
third
light
to
be
relocated
in
phase
two,
which
includes
portions
of
Washington,
Henry
and
Lewis.
D
Before
we
go
on,
I
would
also
add
that
these
are
programmable
LED
fixtures.
So
there
will
be
a
control
box
that
City
staff
will
have
access
to
and
not
only
change
out
the
lenses
but
also
program
pre-program,
a
scheduled
calendar
of
color
changes
for
these,
as
well
with
the
idea
that,
on
certain
holidays,
for
example,
you
know
you
have
different
color
themes
and
different
lenses
that
go
in
and
sort
of
play
up.
The
the
holiday
aspect,
foreign.
I
What
is
on
the
screen
right
now
is
it's
an
actual
model
of
the
fixture.
We
did.
Have
the
electrical
subcontractor
come
in
and
provide
a
demo
which
I
believe
engineering
wasn't
attendance,
Juliet
was
in
attendance,
we
did
have
DPW
and
parks
on
the
invite
list,
but
I'm
not
sure
there
was
any
representative
from
either
of
those
departments.
I
I'm,
not
sure
if
the
city
is
identified.
Who
would
be
maintaining
these
yet
sounds
like
DPW
would
be
doing
all
the
lighting,
so
I
think
this
would
fall
under
their
jurisdiction.
I
So
yes,
Jacob
mentioned:
all
of
these
light
fixtures
would
be
controlled
from
one
spot,
I'm
on
a
controller
about
mid
block
and
State
Street,
so
they
can
be
programmed.
You
know,
wirelessly
through
the
internet,
similar
to
I,
think
some
lighting
in
another
parking
garage
in
the
city.
They
could
all
be
done
at
the
same
time.
Essentially
so
they
can
actually
program
shows
and
light
colors
and
everything
and
they're
all
on
one
DMX
controller,
so
they're
all
colored
lights,
except
the
string
lights,
I'm,
not
sure.
I
What's
next
in
that
slideshow,
those
two
are
the
Gobo
lights.
Okay,
so
there's
also
some
lighting
in
our
Gateway
signage,
but
each
end
of
the
corridor,
and
this
would
occur
in
phase
two
as
well.
There
is
some
vertical
Gateway
signage
that
kind
of
matches
the
rest
of
the
theme
of
the
streetscape
palette.
There
is
strip
lighting
at
the
top
of
these
lights
or
signs
those
are
color
as
well
and
they
would
just
wash
down
light
across
the
face
of
these
signs.
I
I
I
think
the
color
would
change
on
those,
but
there
is
no
pattern
or
lens
graphic,
not
known.
It's
just
a
strip
light.
C
The
concern
that
we
have
was
regarding
the
height
of
the
polls.
Can
you
talk
about.
I
Yeah,
okay,
so
Global
pole
lights
are
16
feet
high,
so
we
are
planning
on
mounting
these
at
the
top.
We
did
want
to
get
them
out
of
any
potential
vandalism
or
anybody
being
able
to
touch
them,
so
he
wanted
to
mount
them
a
little
bit
High.
He
did
not
consider
these
part
of
you
know:
The
Pedestrian
lighting
requirements.
These
are
more
of
an
accent
light,
so
we
did
want
to
mount
them.
High
Enough,
that
they
would
not
be
In,
Harm's,
Way
and
and
but
not
too
high,
where
they
could
not
be
sacrificing.
B
D
I
The
Gateway
signs
are
12
feet
tall,
the
strip
lighting
is
in
the
top
and
then
the
cantonary,
the
mid
block
bump
out
Crossing.
I
When
I
think
187
state
well,
this
actually
links
across
the
Stream
or
what
State
and
the
Bob
Pro
parcel.
So
this
mid
block
is
actually
going
to
be
raised.
There's
a
concrete
raised
crossing
that's
going
to
be
installed
next
year
and
it's
more
of
a
tabletop
pedestrian
Crossing,
and
at
this
Crossing
we
actually
put
in
some
Canary
string
lights,
which
are
similar
to
what
was
installed
on
the
Washington
Street
ped
Mall,
but
due
to
these
being
over
the
roadway,
and
we
have
a
raised
crosswalk
and
there
are
some
large
vehicles
coming
through
this
corridor.
D
I
In
phase
two
well,
this
is
phase
one
right
now.
It's
in
Winter
shutdown,
but
there's
probably
another
month
of
work
next
year
and
part
of
that
work
is
going
to
be
installing
a
concrete
raised.
Mid-Block
pedestrian
Crossing
is.
I
I
D
D
Understanding
of
of
the
concern
that,
as
we
understood
it,
was
that
the
there
is
guidelines
for
the
height
of
pedestrian
lights
in
the
historic
district.
As
you
can
see
on
the
screen.
D
Well,
you
could
see
on
the
screen.
There
are
existing
pedestrian
light
poles
that
have
both
vehicular
lighting,
as
well
as
pedestrian
level
lighting,
which
have
a
more
ornate
historic
character.
Those
those
existing
light
poles,
and
so
our
our
understanding
with
this
project
was
that
you
know
we're
we're
not
adding
or
replacing
any
of
those
historic
polls
and
the
lighting
that
we
are
providing
is
significantly
different,
both
in
character
and
function,
to
the
point
that
it
would
not
conflict
with
that
historic
character
of
those
existing
Folds.
I
And
so
at
this
time
we
have
been
moving
forward
with
construction
in
this
project.
Right
now,
the
Electoral
infrastructure
is
installed
foundations
and
all
the
polls,
the
signage
lighting,
is
ready
to
get
the
fixture.
The
gobos
just
need
to
be
mounted
on
the
poles,
and
then
the
string
lighting
can
be
installed.
I
H
So
I
know
we
looked
at
this
before
and
and
I
can't
remember
everything
that
we've
talked
about,
so
that
must
be
somewhere
along
the
line.
Shippo's
been
involved
with
this
project
in
the
historic
nature
right,
so
those
those
lights
have
been
deemed
to
fit
the
historic
character
of
what
you
guys
are
doing.
I
think
it's
all
part
of
the
theme
I
would
assume
I,
don't
know
if
we
talked
about
it
before,
but
what
the
difference
is
is
this
is
not
lighting
an
historic
nature,
as
our
guidelines
are
saying
these
are.
H
This
is
in
addition
to
the
yeah,
so
I
mean,
but
somewhere
along
the
line.
Someone
had
to
whether
we
did
I
can't
remember,
made
a
comment
that
these
were
appropriate
in
the
historic
district.
In
order
for
them
to
be
in,
you
know,
have
them
in
this
project
this
far
along,
you
know,
chippo
commented
or
we
comment
and
I
can't
I
can't
remember
Sean.
Do
you
remember
anything
regarding
that.
A
So
the
the
the
thing
that
the
board
right
this
isn't.
This
is
just
a
an
update
on
on
the
application
that
was
previously
reviewed
and
so
shippo
did
review
the
the
plans,
just
as
Claude
did
and
I
think
they.
Actually,
you
both
received,
probably
the
same
information
except
the
lighting
plan,
has
come
along
a
little
bit
further
as
I
think.
A
Jeff
Jeff
has
previously
acknowledged
that
it's
a
little
bit
further
developed
at
this
point
and
since
the
lighting,
particularly
for
the
gobos
at
either
end
of
the
district
and
as
Jeff
identified
they're,
not
actually
within
the
district,
but
you
still
have
purview
over
them.
Since
you,
you
know
this
is
a
municipally
LED
project
right
and
so
you're
you're
reviewing
those
sort
of
outside
of
the
district
and
also
reviewing
the
the
lighting
scheme
as
further
developed
at
this
point
within
within
the
district.
It's
not
with
the
catenary
lighting,
as
was
identified.
A
It
is
not
dissimilar
to
what
was
reviewed
when
you
reviewed
The,
Pedestrian
Mall
improvements
on
on
the
Washington
Street
Plaza
right.
That's
that's
not
that
different
than
that
app
than
what
was
proposed
there
and
the
schematic
design
which
was
presented
did
did
illustrate
catenary
lights
as
well.
H
Okay,
I
just
wanted
to
establish
the
record
that
we've
been
over
this
information
and
have
made
a
determination
prior.
So
this
is
like
Sean
is
saying:
this
is
an
update
to
us
a
little
bit
further
along
in
the
design
patterns,
pole
Heights
that
type
of
stuff,
so
General
discussion.
Anybody
have.
A
And
when
and
when,
when
you
initially
reviewed
it,
you
did
ask
for.
D
Supplemental
information,
uninvasive
I,
mean
kind
of
you-
can
hardly
notice
them
I
like
the
idea
of
having
some
theatrics,
especially
if
there's
outdoor
events
going
on
down
there
and
we
seem
to
be
gearing
more
towards
having
outdoor
events
in
the
forums
around
the
corner.
My
my
only
major
concern
is
that
with
the
lighting,
because
it's
with
the
street
sign
the
obstruction
of
line
of
sight
at
the
intersections-
and
that
was
my
big
issue
the
last
time
because
you're
going
up
in
a
car-
and
it
looks
like
it's
about
two
feet
off
the
ground.
I
Of
sight
yep,
we
actually
did
take
a
look
at
that
during
final
design
and
that
request
of
the
traffic
board.
We
did
do
a
sight
line
memorandum
and
basically,
it
resulted
that
there
was
not
going
to
be
much
of
an
issue
with
the
any
sight
distance
for
turning
movements.
I
guess
I
could
provide
that
to
the
cardboard
if
they
would
like
to
see
that.
B
I
I
I
Shippo's
only
comment
was
actually
in
regards
to
the
curb
line,
the
historic
nature
of
the
straight
curb
line,
and
we
needed
to
provide
justification
justification
to
shippo
as
to
why
this
project
was
funded
by
the
Department
of
State,
which
was
to
make
it
more
pedestrian
friendly,
create
safer
Crossings,
and
then
they
agreed
with
that
assessment
and
gave
us
a
no
effect
letter
after
that.
So.
H
H
Okay
Sean:
this
would
be
a
motion
of
appropriateness
right
or
just
just.
A
A
Yes,
I
think
for
just
Clarity
on
the
record,
you
should
motion
to
amend
your
previous
decision
to
include
the
updated
lighting
plan
as
presented.
Okay.
I
I
We
are
going
to
re-engage
that
to
take
a
look
at
the
design
again
and
then
repackage
it
for
bid
to
follow
on
phase
one
one
sec.
It's
complete.
I
Is
there
any
need
to
come
back
to
cod
with
once
we
determine
our
locations
on
phase
two?
For
some
of
these
lighting
elements,
I
mean
we
do
know,
the
string
lighting
would
likely
be
over
the
mid
Block
in
front
of
the
Forum,
and
then
there
are
a
couple
more
Gateway
signs
with
similar
lights
and
there's
one
or
two
Gobles.
We
might
locate
in
phase
two,
but
I
don't
think
we
have
Final
locations.
Yet
we
are
going
to
work
with
some
stakeholders
on
phase
two
to
determine
where
those
should
go.
I
I
Yes,
okay,
yep,
yeah
there'll,
be
all
the
similar
features.
That'll
just
be
on
phase
two,
which
is
essentially
around
the
corner
on
Washington
in
front
of
forum
I'm
around
the
corner
on
Lewis,
and
then
this
section
of
Henry
down
to
the
Henry
water
intersection.
C
When
the
locations
are
finalized,
can
you
submit
those
to
us
and
we'll
go
through
cods
with
them
again?
Okay,.
C
H
E
C
I
State
I
mean
Washington.
We
could
look
at
if
there
are
some
existing
polls
in
the
mountains
the
gobo's
on,
but
we
probably
won't
find
you
know
a
poll
owned
by
the
city
of
Binghamton
that
would
be
appropriate
for
it.
So
right
now
we're
planning
on
new
calls
on
phase.
B
H
All
right,
oh
I,
make
a
motion
to
amend
our
previous
motion
from
this
to
updated
for
the
new
lighting
as
presented
in
today's
meeting.
I
You
thank
you
just
to
confirm.
We've
held
the
contractor
on
putting
these
up
until
this
meeting.
Does
this
mean
we
can
contract
to
contact
the
electrical
subcontractor
and
get
installation
scheduled
yeah
all
right?
Thank
you
very
much.
C
A
Yes,
yep
there
there's
I
believe
now
there
might
be.
There
might
be
two
other
business
items.
The
first
other
business
item
is
I.
A
Just
you
know,
there's
been
a
lot
of
discussion
with
recently
and
more
than
just
one
application,
as
well
with
regard
to
signage
and
sort
of
trying
to
make
the
guidelines
a
little
bit
more
amenable
to
different
types
of
signage,
depending
on
their
context,
and
so
the
planning
department
has
been
looking
at
opportunities
to
sort
of
revise
some
of
the
language
in
the
design
guidelines
and
one
of
the
and
sort
of
solutions
that
I
think
we're
looking
at
right
now
and
there
is
a
process
to
revise
them.
A
Is
we're
we're
looking
to
sort
of
to
try
to
update
the
language
and
one
of
the
things
we're
looking
at
is
potentially
seeing
if
we
can
allow
for
language
and
I'm
just
going
to
try
and
pull
it
up?
So
give
me
one
second,
while
I
do
so
new
share?
Yes,
okay,.
E
C
I
A
Resume
share
there.
We
go
now
yep
great
okay,
so
this
is
sort
of
the
language
we're
thinking
about
in
place
of
basically
generally
internally.
Illuminated
signage
is
not
appropriate
in
a
historic
district,
so
sort
of
adjusting
the
language
to
include
this,
and
this
would
go
through
a
process
of
first
as
a
certified
local
government
reaching
out
to
shippo
asking
them.
A
If
this
language
would
be
appropriate
to
modify
our
guidelines
receiving
their
comments
and
feedback
adjusting
accordingly,
having
you,
as
a
commission,
vote
to
modify
the
guidelines
and
recommend
to
city
council
that
they
approve
the
amendment
to
the
guidelines
and
then
it
would
have
to
go
to
City
Council
to
then
be
approved.
But
we
think
that
this
this
this
language
might
be
more
accommodating
and
more
appropriate.
A
Well,
as
the
the
commission
is
probably
well
familiar
with
at
this
point,
there
have
been
times
where
the
commission,
like
even
more
recently
the
commission,
has
stated
that
they
really
liked
the
design
of
a
sign,
but
they
felt
restricted
by
the
guidelines
to
approve
it
and
even
at
times
they
said
that
the
sign
was
appropriate
for
the
building,
but
they
felt
precluded
from
approving
the
sign
due
to
the
restrictive
nature
of
the
guidelines
and
so
we're
trying
to
arrive
at
language.
A
That's
that
would
be
or
facilitate
you
as
a
commission
to
act
when
you
feel
that
the
the
design
of
a
sign
that
is
appropriate
in
a
historic
district
or
on
a
local
landmark
building
and
it
fits
the
building
and
it
will
actually
do
less
harm
than
other
proposals.
D
D
Then
it
says
the
only
other
reference
to
internally
lit
signs.
Are
it
says
that
it's
generally
inappropriate
and
that's
on
age
85
I
was
just
thinking
like
that
still
leaves
a
little
bit
of
an
opening
and
we
don't
I
think
you
know
that'll.
That
would
allow
an
exception
to
the
rule
now
I
think
in
the
case
we're
discussing
it's
the
accept,
I,
think
I
guess.
My
point
is
generally
inappropriate.
It
should
be
maintained,
but
I
think
there's
a
some
some
rules
for
exception
here.
D
One
it's
prior
infrastructure
was
a
transportation
use
in
in
which
lighting
was
used
as
white
binding.
So
you
know
it's
kind
of
a
compatible
use
for
the
historic
context.
D
It's
on
a
low
low
density
site.
I
think
that
next
entrance
is
like
a
football
field
away,
so
I
think
the
The,
General
kind
of
tone
or
like
Spirit
of
our
guideline,
was
to
prevent
you
know
high
density,
backlit
signs.
You
know
one
after
the
other,
so
I
and
there's
a
couple
other
things
I
go
over
here,
but
but
I
think
that
would
even
allow
us
not
to
go
through
the
whole
rigmaru
of
changing
the
guidelines
and
still
have
an
exception.
C
C
A
Yeah
I
I
I
can
weigh
in
a
little
bit
I
mean
really
it's
up
to
the
purview
of
the
commission
if
they
feel
that
the
existing
existing
guidelines
are
sufficient
and
they
can
state
that
in
the
past
right,
they
feel
the
guidelines
have
performed.
Well,
then,
then,
it's
you
know
within
their
purview
to
continue
using
them.
A
If,
if
they
feel
like,
there
have
been
multiple
times
that
there
have
been
issues
with
internally
illuminated
signs
where
they
felt
like
it
may
have
been
appropriate
for
the
building
and
they
felt
restricted,
then
I
think
they
should
consider
potentially
amending
the
guidelines.
But
it
really
just
depends
I
mean
there
are
several
Commissioners
who
have
who
have
served
on
this
board
for
a
number
of
years,
who
have
have
seen
many
sign
applications
come
before
them
and
have
seen
many.
You
know.
E
H
If
the
city
is
in
a
position
to
want
to
change
the
guidelines
to
change
the
look
of
the
historic
districts
that
makes
sense
to
me
to
change
it
for
a
few
controversial
issues
that
I
remember
don't
make
sense
to
me
because
it
gives
us
the
ability
to
to
deny
and
the
weaker
these
languages
get
the
worse.
It
is
for
us
trying
to
adhere
to
a
guideline.
That's
that's
weaker
or
watered
down.
B
H
Yeah
I
mean
I
I
want
a
strong
I,
want
a
strong
opinion
from
the
city
as
to
what
they
want
their
City
Historic
District
to
look
like
and
will
adhere
to
it.
I
don't
want
to
Waffle
back
and
forth
in
front
of
every
applicant
trying
to
find
a
reason
why
we're
going
to
allow
a
backlit
sign
or
an
internally
illuminated
sign
if
the
city
wants
those
change,
the
ordinances
or
change
the
guidelines.
D
Sean
I
think
Dan
makes
a
good
point
right
so
and
I
probably
should
take
a
look
at
this
a
little
bit
closer,
but
it
says
back
panel
back
signs
illumination
from
The
Insider,
not
appropriate,
that's
pretty
clear,
it's
not!
D
It
doesn't
give
you
any
room
for
interpretation
there
right
and
then
it
says
internally
lit
signs
are
generally
inappropriate
now
generally
like
what
Dan
is
mentioning
is
that
that
gives
you
room
for
interpretation
General,
it
doesn't
say
not
and
doesn't
say
yes,
it's
kind
of
like
an
in-between
and
to
his
point,
I
agree
with
Dan
is
saying
that
you
know
we
want
to
try
to
avoid
this
in
the
densely
populated
area,
but
in
the
case
of
45
Lewis
Street,
because
that's
where
my
office
is
it's
not
densely
populated
in
that
area
in
the
next
possible
building
is
probably
a
football
field
away.
D
D
If
there's
going
to
be
an
exception,
we
have
to
have
like
you
know,
a
list
of
four
things:
each
each
one
compounds
to
make
it
harder
that
you
know
in
the
future
or
right
the
precedent,
be
kind
of
abused,
because
that
exception
is
specific
to
that
building
into
that
project,
and
it's
not
the
same
for
other
buildings
or
other
projects
within
the
historic
district.
That's
why
it's
an
exception.
A
A
The
the
goal
of
design
guidelines
is
to
be
more
specific
than
less
specific
and
right
now
the
guidance
that's
provided
for
the
signage
chapter
and
the
language
that
we
keep
coming
back
to
is
is
is
vague
right
and
it
would
be
better
to
have
more
precise
language
that
makes
the
board's
determinations
clearer
right,
and
so
that's
that's
really.
What's
it
what's
at
the
heart
of
this
right
is
trying
to
more
further
Define
the
guidance
right
rather
than
having
open,
vague
language,
it's
better
to
define
it
concretely.
H
And
sorry
and
I
agree
with
all
that
and
Mick
and
Dan
will
pick
on
me.
But
the
engineer
me
likes
to
be
black
and
white
and
I
know
that
doesn't
apply
100
in
this
case,
but
I
agree
with
you.
The
clearer
and
more
direct
this
language
can
be
the
better.
It
is
for
the
board
to
make
a
determination
and
also
for
you
to
take
an
application
in
that.
You
know
is
fully
inappropriate
and
it
doesn't
need
to
come
to
the
board
because.
F
A
H
Oh
I
mean
I
think
we're
we're
reasonable
to
look
at
options
and
try
to
you
can
always
improve
stuff.
My
my
comment
was:
don't
water
it
down
if
you
can
get
to
a
get
to
something
more
specific,
that's
easier
for
us,
but
I
I
think
it
would
be
good,
like
Dan
did
a
a
sheet
here
which
I
haven't
had
a
chance
to
digest.
Yet
if
you've
got
suggestions
from
the
planning
department
by
all
means,
send
them
send
them
around
to
the
board.
D
Yeah
I
think
that
you
should
send
that
to
Sean
yeah,
because
I
like
I,
like
what
you
put
in
and
again
I'll,
say
this
for
me
personally,
and
only
me
that
I
probably
should
go
back
and
reread
you
know
some
of
those
items
within
the
guidelines.
You
know
it's
been.
It's
been
quite
some
time.
I'm
not
gonna
lie.
E
B
B
H
So
at
the
last
meeting
we
you
know
the
this
discussion
is
centered
around
45
Lewis
Street.
We
had
asked
for
shippo's
comments.
Have
they
weighed
in
on
that.
C
When
Once
the
sign
was
installed,
it
pretty
much
stopped
our
review.
So
then
we
issued
a
notice
of
violation
for
30
days
to
comply
and
come
back
into
agreement
with
our
guidelines
and
now
we're
looking
at
ways
that
we
could
modify
the
the
wording
or
approve
it
with
what
we
have
and
then
have
ship
away
in
with
comments
in
a
letter
form
not
verbal
and
city
council.
D
H
Revising
thing
I
I
dislike
revising
thing
for
a
specific
case.
Just
to
appease,
you
know
a
application
in
the
city
if
this
is
all
to
get
out
of
the
pickle
with
45
Lewis
Street
I'm,
not
interested
all
right.
D
Yeah
so
there's
two
trains
of
thoughts
right.
One
Ken
just
set
and
I
agree
with
Canon
and
one
Dan
just
said
and
I
agree
with
Dan,
not
looking
to
appease
anybody.
But
I
think
there
are
ways
that
we
can
make
the
guidelines
a
little
bit
more
crystal
clear
so
that
we're
not
just
Towing
the
line
and
having
to
come
up
with
exceptions
or.
H
D
Councils
sitting
in
on
each
meeting
but
Sharon
we
had
Nate
before
her
count,
I
mean
that
would
have
helped
us
an
awful
lot
last
month,
a
few
times
in
the
past,
but
I
guess
what
Sean
is
asking
us
is
that
do
we
want
to
do?
We
want
to
look
at
modifying
language
within
the
guidelines
to
help
us.
H
Yeah
I
think
that's
a
worthwhile
goal
and
that
could
that
could
apply
to
any
guidelines
that
we've
been
struggling
with.
But
surely
signs
have
been
the
most
of
our
problem
right
so
anything
that
we
can
do
to
improve
that
section
and
hit
the
hit
the
the
ideas
that
the
city
wants
to
develop
an
historic
district
perfectly
fine,
but
the
revised
guidelines
around
an
application
really
bugs
me.
C
I,
don't
believe
that
was
our
intent.
We
do
have
funding
to
update
the
whole
historic
design.
Guideline
document
we
haven't
contacted
with
anyone.
Yet
to
do
that.
This
came
up
as
an
issue
with
Mark's
project.
C
He
walked
away
from
the
meetings.
Having
heard
everyone
say
that
you
liked
to
find
and
contacted
us
and
said,
I
haven't
heard
anything
I
have
a
train
I'm
putting
it
up,
so
he
notified
us
that
it
was
going
up.
At
that
point,
without
I
we
wrote
back
and
said
you
don't
have
approval.
The
determination
wasn't
made
your
Project's
been
tabled
and
the
fact
that
you
did
it
is
similar
to
what
yeah
and
so
at
this
point
the
light
is
not
on
in
the
sign.
It's
got
the
violation
letter
and
it
well.
C
E
D
But
is
it
but
isn't
there
too,
like
so?
Let's
talk
about
that
applicant
specifically
right,
so
there's
two
separate
items
that
we're
looking
to
review
number
one,
the
sign
itself
and
then
number
two,
the
lighting
of
the
sign
right
and
a
lot
of
times.
We
look
at
those
two
things
as
separate,
even
though
they're
they're
connected
right
and
what
we
were.
D
You
know
related
to
that
specific
item,
so
we're
talking
about
the
sign
design
and
if
it's
appropriate
for
the
historic
district
and
then
we're
talking
about
the
lighting
of
the
Sun
and
they're
connected.
They.
D
D
D
D
So
we
could
have
done
that
as
a
commission
and
we
still
can
if
we
feel
if
we
feel
strongly
about
that,
nobody's
saying
that
the
sign
that's
been
designed
and
potentially
installed
or
installed,
is
inappropriate
to
that
building
or
to
the
location
of
of
where
the
sign
is
being
mounted
right.
So
I
think
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
it
in
a
couple
different
ways:
right.
We're
not
saying
we're
not
sitting
here,
saying
that
the
sign
is
inappropriate.
D
We're
just
saying
that
we,
we
are
uncomfortable,
approving
the
sign
with
a
backlit
portion
of
that
side,
because
that's
not
what
we've
done
before
and
we
don't
want
to
set
a
precedent.
And
if
we
want
to
make
an
exception,
then
there's
a
whole
other
rules
and
regulations.
That
kind
of
come
to
that
to
come
to
that
decision,
right,
yeah.
H
H
D
That
or
we
just
again,
we
look
at
the
black
and
white
portion
of
the
rules
and
regulations
have
we
have.
We
approve
the
backlit
sign
in
a
historic
district
in
Binghamton?
No,
it's
a
yes
or
no.
No,
so
then,
the
the
answer
to
the
question
is
no:
no,
we
don't
approve
it,
and
if
we
want
to
make
an
exception,
then
it
has
to
be
through
corporate
Council
of
some
other
sort
right.
But
we
can
sit
here
and
say
that
we've
never
approved
a
backlit
sign
in
the
historic
district.
H
H
So
that
that
Avenue,
if
that's
true,
pulls
pulled
clawed
back
out
of
it
as
city
council
wants
to
Grant
the
backlit
Fortune
I
mean
the
the
right
answer
in
the
big
scheme
of
things,
the
city
does
not
want
to
get
into
a
legal
battle
with
Mark
I'm
sure
to
have
to
remove
the
sign.
Only
to
put
the
sign
back
up,
I
mean
that's
crazy
right.
So
how
do
you
resolve
the
backlit
portion,
foreign.
H
That's
that
that
who
is
who
his
his
Avenue
is
to
appeal:
that
directly
to
city
council.
H
E
A
Hey
I'm
still
here,
the
the
you
know,
if
you
want
planning
staff
to
continue,
you
know
discussing
with
shippo
and
and
starting
that
process.
That's
fine!
If
you,
if
the
commission
thinks
we
should
hold
off
for
now.
That's
that's!
Also
fine!
It's
it's
really
up
to
the
board
to
decide
which
way
to
go
today.
Well,.
H
The
longer
something
sits,
it
allows
it
to
pester
a
little
bit,
so
the
idea
would
be
to
move
this
forward
in
the
best
way
possible.
So
if
it
is
possible
for
planning
department
to
contact
shippo
to
get
some
advice
from
them,
I
would
feel
a
lot
better
about
that
and
Mary
Ellen
wanted
legal
counsel
to
weigh
in
on
the
perfect.
A
H
Can't
hear
marriage
so
if
it's
possible,
in
the
violation
to
to
do
that,
I
I,
think
that
would
help
us,
and
then
we
have
two
choices
as
Mick
and
Dan
have
both
outlined
want
to
prove
the
sign
without
the
backlit
portion,
once
we
have
shippos
and
corporate
council's
opinion
or
two
approve
the
backlit
portion
with
stipulated
conditions
so
that
it
doesn't
set
a
precedent
for
the
next
one
that
comes
in
that
that's
the
direction.
Unless
anybody
sees
the
difference
so.
B
A
Can
everyone
hear
me
again,
okay,
so
I
I
was
just
gonna
say
that
the
specifics
of
a
case
should
really
only
be
discussed
when
an
applicant
is
present.
So
if
you're,
if
you're
going
to
have
like
any,
if
you're
gonna
make
any
concrete
decisions
about,
you
know
how
you're
framing
your
views
for
a
specific
application.
That
should
be
done
at
another
time
where
the
applicant
is
on
the
agenda
and
and
or
is
present
to
speak
during
other
business.
I
I,
don't
know
if
the
applicant
is
still
present
at
the
meeting.
H
No
he's
not
we're
not
taking
any
formal
action,
we're
it's
it's
discussion
under
old
business.
It
just
happens
to
be
45
Lewis
Street
centers
around
the
sign
revisions.
H
But
can
you
is
it
possible,
under
the
violation
to
still
seek
shippo
shippo
comments.
A
So
yes
right,
it's
just
the
whole
matter
becomes
much
more
complicated
because
the
sign
was
installed
right
because
that
becomes
the
priority
focus.
Is
that
the
applicant
violated
cods,
Authority
and
jurisdiction
and
went
and
installed
the
sign
without
your
approval
and
so
anytime
that
I
reach
out
to
you
know
another
Authority
like
shippo,
the
first
thing
they'll
say
is
well.
Why
was
the
sign
installed
without
your
approval?
Not
about
the
the
content
of
of
the
sign
right
so
or
the
the
the
the
type
of
sign?
A
So
the
the
violation
in
some
ways
took
precedence
in
the
immediate
time,
while
we're
able
to
sort
of
calibrate
and
and
reframe
the
discussion
to
to
move
this
move
this
further
along.
Okay.
H
H
Excuse
me,
the
same
same
situation
is
going
to
exist
whether
the
violation
now
exists
or
doesn't
exist,
you're
going
to
get
past.
This
violation
he's
not
going
to
take
the
sign
down,
you're
still
going
to
have
to
ask
shippo
so
that
that
point
is
still
if
it's
going
to
taint
their
decision
it.
It's
always
going
to
take
the
decision,
because
it's
not
coming
down.
A
Yes,
so
that's
that's
the
thing
it's
like.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
no
one's
you
know,
thinking
with
regard
to
the
application
is,
you
know,
has
been
altered
in
any
way.
So
it's
a
matter
if
I,
what
I
would
say
is
that
usually
also
it's
it's
it's
best
if
the
commission
is
asking
shippo
for
guidance
on
applications
like
this
right,
where
we,
we
have
a
specific
instance
where
something
occurred,
but
in
general
we
want
to.
A
H
Okay,
you
could
frame
it
that
way.
You
don't
even
have
to
reference
that
case,
we're
having
an
issue
with
a
backlit
sign.
We
don't
we
like
the
sign.
We
like
the
location
we
like
the
massing,
but
we're
having
trouble
with
the
verbiage
on
the
backlit
sign
on
the
backlit
portion.
Is
that
possible.
H
A
No,
you
you've
you've
addressed
that
I
wasn't
sure
if
Mark
was
still
present
and
wanted
to
make
anything
known
to
the
board.
Okay.
H
Like
an
example
where
the
lighting
came
today
right,
so
we
we
had
that
review.
We
made
our
recommendations
made
our
motions
prior,
an
opportunity
came
for
a
presentation
of
the
lighting
and
what
it
was
it
seems
like
it
would
have
been
appropriate
to
notify
the
board
if
we
wanted
to
have
a
member
there
to
help
us
in
our
decision.
That
would
have
been
that
was
made
today,
because
everybody
got
invited
even
in
I.T.
Why
wasn't
cardboard
invited.
C
Yeah
from
the
contractor
side
right,
they
felt
that
everything
had
been
approved
and
it
technically
had
been,
but
it
hadn't
been
brought
to
our
attention
as
the
signs
had
been
and
the
crosswalks
had
been
brought
out
of
the
Blueprints
and
presented
to
God
the
poles
and
the
lighting
itself
had
now.
That
was
the
first.
That
I
was
aware
of.