City of Bloomington, Indiana Board of Zoning Appeals, 18 May 2017

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From YouTube: Bloomington Board of Zoning Appeals 5/18/2017

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Onboard Link: https://bloomington.in.gov/boards/zoning-appeals/meetings/2017

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Runner of the house extending approximately 13 feet, west meeting the property line and extending 132 feet south along the property line. You can.

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See here from the petitioner site plan.

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The photo has been rotated so that north.

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Is over here, the structure is here and.

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The fence would go right along here.

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These standards for maximum height in the you do state that forward front of the building wall of the primary structure. Fences and walls shall not exceed 4 feet in height the front.

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Building wall is defined as the building elevation, which fronts on a public street and, as this structure is located on a corner, this building has frontages along both south highland and east second street, while the functional front of the house is along east. Second, as.

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Previously mentioned this is located in the elm heights historic district. The petitioner was required to receive a.

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Certificate of appropriateness from the bloomington historic preservation commission, which was acquired in march.

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And the following work was approved to.

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Remove the evergreen trees along south highland avenue and construct a 6-foot.

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Wooden fence, along the back of the property and along highland avenue, eight feet from the rear of the house. The bza.

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Has on occasion approved to fence height variances, when the following instances are true, the property is at a corner. The.

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Fence would be along a classified street when the fence does not block the functional front of the house, and the fence does not loom over the street by use of a setback or a lattice top above four feet. In this instance, the proposed.

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Fence is not along a classified street.

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This fence is located catty-corner from the petitioner site and received approval from the bca in 2012.

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After it was originally recommended for denial by staff, peculiar condition was.

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Found on the small lot size existing.

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Grandfathered fence section and the fact that it was a corner lot and the side street was along second, as opposed to highland, which has a higher level of traffic. Here are some existing photos.

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This is the site itself looking at along.

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If you're located on east second looking.

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At the house, the proposed fence would be along this side of the street. There are.

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Currently, some existing landscaping.

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Shrubs and trees that kind of provide some privacy in the petitioners backyard.

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And this is the view looking down south.

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Highland, so the fence would be right.

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Along here and as stated before, there are no sidewalks on either side of the street.

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So just kind of to review what exactly is permitted and proposed the petitioner.

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Has proposed a fence that would extend along south highland six feet here.

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Permitted by the you do would be to.

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Place a six-foot fence along in line.

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With the house, as opposed to extending beyond the facade, the petitioner would.

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Also be allowed to put a 4-foot fence in the same location as proposed, and another alternate would be to use plantings for privacy as it currently is.

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Today. There are three criteria for.

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Variances, the first is the use and value.

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Of the area adjacent to the property would not be affected, staff did find.

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That some, the the use and value of the area adjacent to the property would be impacted, as it would change the existing landscaping and visibility along a significant portion of the lot and the approval would not be injurious to the health and general welfare of the community. There is no sidewalk on either.

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Side of highland street, which would.

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Create a greater need to protect pedestrian safety and, lastly, the strict.

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Application of the terms of the you do result in practical difficulties, unique.

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To the property in question, the.

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Department finds that there are no peculiar conditions on this property, while the property in question is a corner lot. This is not a peculiar condition, as there are many corner lots throughout the city facing the same issue. In addition, highland street, the.

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Street, that is the non-functional side of the house, is not a classified street with heavy traffic. The only practical difficulty on the site is protecting the existing mature walnut tree located along south highland street. However, the.

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You do does not prohibit a fence in this location, and the tree could still exist with a 4-foot fence as permitted by the you do. Staff recommends denial of the.

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Let's step up to the podium, please.

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Can you please state your name? Do you.

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Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yes, you have up to 20 minutes to present.

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If you we're going to have trouble.

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Hearing you without you, thank you. If you.

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Look at the survey of the property and.

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You see that putting the fence where I'm.

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Allowed to, according to the regulations.

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Would essentially reduce the effective.

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Size of the yard, by a fairly large.

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Percentage and the tree, the walnut tree.

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Is in such a position that the fence.

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Would have to go about two feet to the.

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East of the tree, which is four feet in.

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Diameter and in that position, if they.

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Have to put any posts it could damage the roots dickie. You know drilling in the ground like that which might be fatal for the tree, really not good. For.

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It plus it would deprive the backyard of.

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An essential part of the landscaping which I think must be very old since the tree is four feet in diameter and the.

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Did you I did not go into the backyard.

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Just from the street, these pictures are.

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Not very good because I used the only.

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Camera we had and the printer is black and white, not color, so you don't get a really good effect, but I'll show you the.

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One which shows that, in addition to the.

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Too many pictures.

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Okay, you can see that two feet.

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Approximately from the base of the tree.

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Would be between the stone edging to the.

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Planting bed and the tree, and it would.

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Be about two-thirds of the way to the to.

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The stone edge there and that point is.

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About two feet lower than the point.

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Where the trees are lined up, which is approximately where the where they're planted is approximately, where the fence would be so essentially putting a.

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Six-Foot fence at the position, this side.

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Of the tree would do no good as far as.

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Getting any privacy because it would still have an effect of height of four feet compared to a six-foot fence. On the you.

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Know the property line, so it doesn't do.

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Any good to use the four-foot fence there there's no reason to put one there and in addition to that, that's a walnut.

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Tree and walnut trees are notorious for.

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Being very difficult to grow things under and I provided a table which I.

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Made that had the.

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Second, here it is there's two pages.

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Anyway, get an idea: there are ten hedge.

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Plants that I've listed and their common.

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Hedge plants, that people grow here and.

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Of the ones that are there, four of them.

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Cannot grow under walnut trees and two.

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Of them will not grow under a shade tree.

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They need more sun than that and then.

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There should be a copy in the packet.

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The two types of holi that are listed on.

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This front page page, one they're not.

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Listed as tolerant of black walnuts jablome, but it wouldn't make any.

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Difference because they're occasionally severely damaged by deer, which is another problem in the backyard a lot of the plants get eaten, and so I wouldn't.

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Want to plant those plus people walk their dogs along highland, then they just let them pee, I'm shrubbery and everything like that.

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So that wouldn't work very well so that.

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Eliminates eight of the ten that are.

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Left the boxwood is not listed as black.

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Walnut of lone tolerant, but I have read.

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Some people replying to you know.

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Questions on the internet that they've had good luck with boxwood under walnut.

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Trees, so the only two problems with.

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Boxwood are that it rose very slowly according to the person at maize nursery.

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That you know sells the plants.

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He said that they only grow under a tree.

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About three inches a year and the.

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Tallest box, would they sell of the type.

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That gets tall and not as wide it's 30.

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Inches so in ten years the hedge would only be about five feet tall and I'm elderly, and I might not.

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Live to see it grow that high even so, and it might get injured by dogs and.

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Stuff like that, but anyway, it also has.

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Many diseases and pests, so it's not a.

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Sure thing, and then the last one is the one I have.

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Which is the canadian hemlock and here's.

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A picture of how the two to the left of.

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The tree are in very bad condition. The.

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You know, I don't know what happened to them unless it's the jablome, but the.

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When you get to the third one, it's a little better and it gets better as you go towards the house, and you know I I.

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Don't know if new ones would grow well there or not, but the ones that are there already were not truned every year as they need to be. If they're going to be a dense hedge, that will do the proper screening and so really keeping the ones.

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That are, there is not a solution, and replanting is not a sure thing either.

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Because the ones that are they're not doing well the ones that are under the tree or closest to the tree. And then.

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Let's see a lot of poison ivy virginia.

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Creeper and you wanna mus ground cover.

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Which also vines have grown up their.

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Trunks and because the branches of the.

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Trees drew very low, it is very hard to.

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Weed under the you know, these canadian.

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Hemlocks with the ground cover there and with the limbs drooping onto the ground,.

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Also, it's very expensive to maintain because it would have to be pruned every year and they can't let it get past a.

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Certain height or even they would you know they just become exorbitant, and it's not easy to afford that kind of.

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Pruning- and you know social security and.

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A pension so anyway, it doesn't seem like.

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A great solution: you can see a little.

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More of how much the yard, at the back.

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South west corner of the yard, in other.

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Words, if you went straight back from the walnut tree, the that's where it would.

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Have been taken from the let's see, no.

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This is at the corner, like the back property corner, looking down into the.

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Yard and that's the: what do you call it.

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You put the dead plant matter to compost.

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Pile which also needs to be screened and.

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Has nothing screening it now and.

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So, anyway, the hedge: that's, there can't.

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Be made to look decent, it's too late.

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They have to be trained from the beginning and then other problems.

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You have just under 8 minutes left. What is that you just have just under 8 minutes left.

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Ok, I'm almost done. I don't know whether.

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I mean I'll say this: I know that it's been rejected already the possibility of offense, but I did submit pictures of.

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Dances that are currently being used in.

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Elm heights historic district 4 as being.

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A type that I would like to have, and.

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They were approved by the hpc, the.

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Historic preservation, commission, yeah.

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Yeah they've approved it and I contend.

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That the need for the use variance arises from all those conditions. The.

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Juglone, which means it's hard for them to grow and the slope of the yard so.

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That a you know offensive enough height.

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Would be able to do this screening without losing 25 or 30 percent of the.

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Back yard, and also without disrupting.

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And completely ruining the landscaping.

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Which is like it's almost like a circle.

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In the backyard or a rectangle, with corners that are rounded and with all.

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Kinds of while then and cultivated.

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Plants in there and it's just beautiful and to ruin it like that just seems like.

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You know it's not a good idea and I.

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Wouldn't like to do it so anyway, I want.

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It to be beautiful and I wanted to function. I feel like these kind of.

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Restrictions in this case are prejudiced.

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Against people who own corner lots because they, you know they can't do the.

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Things that people in between and so their property values would not be as high as they would be. Otherwise, if they could and when they go to sell their house, they have a more difficult time selling their house. I would imagine, because it who wants to have a backyard.

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That's uncomplete view from the you know.

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From the street so which it would be.

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Well, if I had, I mean the hemlocks that.

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Are close to the house are too large and I can't let them get any bigger or the city wouldn't let me take them down and they're almost touching the house. I can.

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Show you one picture of that and then.

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That's it. I can't.

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You have under five minutes left and as.

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It gets bigger, lauren were more. Will you.

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Know do that so anyway. That's it.

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Any questions thank you that will be for.

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The board to decide here shortly, so you can have a seat. Thank you. Thank you.

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Questions for staff, and/or petitioner by the board in a long highland, only eight.

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Feet from the rear of the house.

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I think I understand it. I'm just waiting.

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For us to get the diagram back up.

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Shutting the whole computer.

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Please tell me: windows boot up faster now,.

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Pardon me so the eight-foot portion that.

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The hpc was discussing was, from the far.

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End of the house up so at the furthest.

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Most southwest corner of the house, the.

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Fence would start 8 feet in front of that, so it does enclose like a tiny.

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Portion of the actual it'll come off of.

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8 feet off of the wall does that I'm 8.

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Feet off of the wall, a little house so.

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It would be 8 feet along the house.

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So this is this: here is the eight feet.

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Of the house that the hpc was discussing.

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If they, they said that they approved yes,.

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And so the and jim can correct me if I'm.

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Wrong but the historic preservation doesn't commission doesn't look at if it meets code rather than if it fits in.

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With the neighborhood and if it affects.

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A contributing historic structure which.

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This is, I would imagine yes, okay, okay,.

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And just another question: so there's.

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Nothing to preclude the homeowner for doing a stretch of six foot, high fence.

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Off the corner of the house off the.

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Corner of the house straight to the south and then jogging the fence down to.

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Get around the tree at four feet, so you could. There could be a combination so that up closer to the house, they could have more privacy, probably where they sit and where the rear deck is and then.

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The and to allow for the inclusion of.

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That large tree in the backyard that could be accomplished with a four foot high fence that could go out to their property line along the west and run to the southwest corner. There's nothing in.

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The code that would not preclude that no.

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That would be a decision of who and then the coa would be amended. But yes, I.

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Believe what you're saying is true, I'm.

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Just trying to understand that there is a way working with the code to achieve some level of privacy and include the.

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Tree with in the yard, and and meet a lot.

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Of the goals at the homeowner has, while still meeting code and the spirit.

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Of why the regulation is what it is so.

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That we don't have walls of fences along roadways and in in our neighborhoods.

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Right, yes, okay, do I understand that you.

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Show the petitioner showed a design of a fence to the historical commission. Yes,.

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So they were in the packet and I believe.

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The two are the similar to this without.

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Fence with slack foot and the lattice or.

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Just a regular flat fence, the petitioner.

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I asked her earlier today and she said that she had not decided in between the two. Okay, yes, go to sorry, which one page.

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11 you were just there. I just want that.

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Right there so on the left side of the.

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Photograph that street I just want to clarify, that's highland. This is highland.

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Correct and there's no sidewalk on.

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Either side of the street, so the only.

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People that are passing by there would be in a car. I mean people would be.

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Walking but they would be walking in the.

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See, yes, I just wonder sin so the.

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Proposed fence type is one that has a.

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Lattice, on top we're one that is solid board to the top. That is correct. Okay, so.

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In both of them, so it's either. It's there's not one.

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Proposed fence type: okay, both of those.

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Were approved by the historic preservation commission, but both are not.

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Accepted at six feet: yes, you two.

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Questions is there any one, the public they would like to comment seeing none.

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If the petitioner has approximately four.

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Minutes and 20 seconds left if you would like to have any additional comments.

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Or foot fence in the area where the tree.

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Is in order to include the tree really.

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Wouldn't work artistically for the.

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Landscape of the yard- it just would not.

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Work- and I wouldn't do that to the landscape- you wouldn't even be able to.

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See the tree from inside the house like in the breakfast nook and that there's a.

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Window on the back of the house front in.

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The nook and I sit where I can see the.

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Whole tree and all the wildlife that you know is there: it also wouldn't keep out the deer. They would hop over that 4-foot fence in a second. So you know I'd like.

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To you know prevent the deer from doing that. Also, the house sits up fairly high, even though the backyard is low and you.

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Can see a lot of the back of the house.

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When you're driving by now, so you know.

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You can see the whole front of the house and, like most of the side of the house,.

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The the city allows the fence to go up.

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To half way to the front of the house, I'm not even asking that just the part that encloses the area where the breakfast nook gives so that traffic's not driving by when we're eating, I mean.

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We can't see the traffic anyway if we have the fence so anyway, that's the only.

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Comment I have thank you.

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See none back to the board fraction.

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I have inclined to approve this. I I I.

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Understand the special nature of the backyard and I think it it seems.

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Appropriate well, we need a motion for.

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Anything action by the board. I feel a little divided about this. I.

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Have to be honest, because when we have when we have gone ahead and and approved.

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These variances, it has been very specific to busy streets being adjacent.

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To busy streets either for pedestrian traffic or or automobile traffic and.

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This situation does not does not have.

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Either I have to say that you're in a city you bought up the house on a corner, lie this part of being in this neighborhood.

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It seems in the character of this neighborhood is that these houses are close together and some of them are on view. I think there are some mitigating.

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Approaches to help with the privacy issue being somebody who lives in the.

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Neighborhood who deals with deer and knows people who do have high fences, deer jump, six-foot fences and the city's struggled with the deer issue and keeping them out. So I don't think that that's necessarily a remedy, but what I I.

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Understand the desire for some privacy- and I think that's a completely reasonable thing. And- and there are.

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Several tools and fences, or one of them.

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To try and get there- and I know that you have some challenges but as a neighbor.

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And somebody who walks this neighborhood a lot. I personally have have an issue.

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And understand why there we have the regulation that we do so that we don't get tall fences along along roadways unless there's very specific reasons. So for me, I don't feel like this variance meets the level of hardship that the the.

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Property can't be used.

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Facilitate board discussion I'll go ahead, make a motion for denial of the zero nine one. Seven additional comments.

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Comments on this are that the homeowner.

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Still is allowed to build a 4-foot fence which provides some privacy. I agree that it's in the city. I agreed that these are grouped closely together in this neighborhood. I think that, despite the.

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Discussion of potential landscape in.

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Order to bring the height of application.

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To the street above four feet and.

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Actually much higher than six, I don't.

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Think that that's been explored fully, that there's that there are options, it's done and people do it and that's going.

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To look a lot different than having a six-foot fence, I think that there was some misunderstanding about what barry was saying, which is you can take the.

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Six-Foot fence off the back of the house to a point and then go back out to the street at four feet and continue four.

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Feet, which gives you some for some added.

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Privacy, especially in the area, and it would not obstruct your view of the tree, so I do think that there's enough, there are enough factors here that wouldn't allow for that type of variance comments.

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And I would just like to comment that I.

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Have been in sport for a very long time- and this is not personal- we have taken.

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The position as a community that tall fences are not inviting and that tall.

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Fences, isolate people and this board has consistently recommended in denial on these cases, and I voted on denial on every single one of them, so we are sensitive to what your what's happening for you, however, we have to think of the community as a whole living in an urban area.

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Equivalent, yes, doc, marten, yes, petition.

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Is denied, thank you and we are adjourned.

B