City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 22 May 2020

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Bloomington City Council Administration Committee, May 22, 2020

Description

meeting agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5817

A

We have a quorum of the administration council members. Yes, it's a committee.

B

Okay, so as usually intended, our agenda today is discussing the transition for.

B

The council office, due to the retirement of the council's attorney administrators.

B

And sherman, who is on the call with us, hello, that's where's, campbell, larry, hi,.

A

Sorry, if we had the committee members on video, this is a formal meeting where.

B

Votes can be to take your recommendations made okay, so just to set.

B

The stage on the 12th of march, I we called a meeting the admin committee.

B

Where we discussed approaches towards the appointment of a successor for the.

B

Attorney administrators, because dan sherman had let us know that he was.

B

Planning on retiring, he has since submitted a notice of retirement to me.

B

And his last day will be july 31, so the vacancy will be august 1. What we need to.

B

Do today is discuss next steps and possibly recommendation for an.

B

Appointment up to that position, the position of june administrator is one.

B

That is appointed by the council, and so it's not by any one member. It's by a.

B

Vote of aye, sir, so hello, sorry, okay, so I have in april march and april over the.

B

Course of a two-week period reached out to individual members of.

B

Council to ask because it's the first time we've done.

B

It in 30 years to ask them what would your preference be for a process to.

B

Appoint a new attorney administrator and it turns out that, unlike other staff, not.

B

Quite sure that we don't really have an obligation to to have a public hiring.

B

Process for any position at council, but traditionally the man by the job.

B

Description, the attorney administrator is the de facto department head for the.

B

Council and hires the staff who serve the counsel other than himself, and so we.

B

Could just appoint someone, but I did not want to presume that that was what.

B

Anybody wanted to do and I did not make any presumptions when I asked members.

B

What do you think we should do, and not only did each member individually.

B

Without me, prompting them suggests that we did not necessarily need to open a.

B

Public process, but literally every member of council said I don't.

B

Understand why we wouldn't just hire stephen lucas, and so it does seem like a.

B

Foregone conclusion, but I you know, we haven't actually taken a vote and I.

B

Don't want to make that assumption. So certainly stephen is very well.

B

Qualified he has served the council twice first as an intern, and now is the.

B

Deputy attorney when he was hired last year, his immediate job before that was.

B

Working for the clerk's office, which he did for at least three years so and he.

B

Served as an intern for two and a half years, so he has some experience with the.

B

City- and you know I have no doubt he would make a fine attorney administrator.

B

But I just wanted to set up that that preface so with that we see here if.

B

I can pull up with that. I want to entertain a discussion as to what the.

B

Kind of recommendation that committee would like to make to the full council.

B

Regarding how we should proceed, whether we should, in fact open up a process and.

B

Take resumes, appoint mr. lucas, appoint someone else or some other course of.

B

Action are there any thoughts for my fellow.

B

Committee members, council, member sims, I would suggest that this committee for a.

C

Positive recommendation to the council to to her mr. lucas my only caveat with.

C

That not a caveat. It's not the right word. I would still like to see an.

C

Updated resume that highlights his experiences. Education and criteria up.

C

Into his current duties, but other than that, I think with your informal.

C

Individual survey again, this is something we can move forward on and.

C

Then talk about the replacement processes at some point for his other.

C

Position, that's what we're talking about. Thank you kind of reception. Think that's.

B

Good advice, certainly, we should expect him to submit some kind of a piece of.

B

Paper that expresses his interest. I do happen to know having asked him before.

B

That he is interested in the position. I think that you know it depends on the.

B

Salary range, but the range is very broad. We would need to discuss at some point.

B

How we would go about determining what salary he would begin in counselor.

B

Scambler ii, do you have any thoughts at all? No, I would support councilmember.

D

Sims recommendations, I think I think mr. lucas has essentially had a multi-year.

D

Interview and I think, if only because of the questions he's had to put up with.

D

For me, in the last few months, I think you would, I think he would make.

D

It outstanding candidate- I do have a question about process overall, not.

D

Necessarily specific appointment, so whenever it's appropriate, I want to.

D

Share that it's appropriate right now, I'll, please go ahead. This is we are a.

D

Public group, we are a committee of council and, as such, we're meeting.

D

Publicly right now, but I do have the question about how or whether that.

D

Practice is altered when we're talking about a search when we're talking about.

D

Personnel matters. I know, for example, that the rdc meets an executive session.

D

When it's talking about purchasing real estate, for example, so there are some.

D

Subjects, and in this one in particular, I think we want to be sensitive to.

D

Candidates for the attorney administrator position, I think we also.

D

Just need to conduct a search, properly and respectfully of candidates, so I.

D

Would just ask the question about whether or not personnel discussions.

D

Altered this process in any way, this is a question that I've been wrestling with.

B

Personally, I wonder if mr. shermin can shed some light here. We don't have the.

B

Benefit of hr representative here we have consulted them and they have been.

B

Helpful with advice, but mr. sherman, can you contribute to this discussion in.

E

Order to hold an executive session, you have to do it under identified.

E

Provisions of the open door law there is a provision regarding appointment of of.

E

Public officials and it looks like the position of counsel attorney.

E

Administrator is such thank you, mr. sherman, can you say that again you.

E

Elected just the last position is a public official and that can be.

E

Discussing appointment, a public official can be done by an.

E

Executive session, so I think yeah at some point, could you share the citation.

D

For we're in case, we need to refer to it for just me an executive session. Why and.

D

And what passage doesn't allow us to do that? Okay? Yes, I can do that. Sorry. I was.

B

That could answer your question counselor skin blurry, or are we I'm.

D

Sorry you're looking something up: okay,.

B

Mr. president, counselor stems to kind of follow up.

C

Councilmembers temblors question: what, with regard to the council house, the.

C

Executive committee or the executive session defined, we don't have an.

C

Executive standing committee and that generally will go through this. This.

C

Committee, so I'm a little bit confused moving forward on what that would entail.

C

That's a very good in additionally to this administration or the.

C

Administration for me, a tease recommendation to the full council and I.

C

Do respect them what council members gambler is saying, and in other.

C

Situations, I would agree with that. Even our dc, I'm not so sure, with our new.

C

Current structure and all this that that's so that's I'm just wondering.

C

About that, for the record, we do not have an executive committee.

B

And that is not the same thing as executive session as well. Yes, okay! Well,.

B

I'm just trying to make sure that I understand your question, but we we do.

B

Have the ability to conduct a committee meeting in executive session as long as.

B

It complies with statute, but there is, I mean there is no executive committee, so.

B

The you know, I've asked the admin committee to contemplate this issue. It's.

B

A dual form committee of council: this is the kind of issue that it was designed to consider and this I'm pretty confident.

B

That this committee can meet an executive session to discuss personnel.

B

Issues so you know agree, but I think moving forward. That would be more.

C

Appropriate when we're talking about replacing it should should mr. lucas be.

C

Accepted to replace dan, then I think executive session would be more.

C

Appropriate in discussing and looking for his replacement for his current.

C

Position so I think there well, there may be another discussion, so sorry go ahead.

B

I mean it, you know last year, when we hired mr. lucas, we did conduct a search.

B

It was something that was driven by led by our primary employee counsel, attorney.

B

Administrator dan sherman council members sat in on the interviews.

B

Which were conducted as interviews are, and private, and not in public.

B

But the position of the highest position is a slightly different animal with that.

B

I'll ask mr. sherman if he has additional light to shed, could you.

E

Repeat what you said, I'm sorry, I was looking at statute. He was doing his job.

F

So we're just talking about under what circumstance executive session can be.

B

Held and you know, discussion of personnel matters is one of the primary.

B

Reasons that I know of for executive session to be conducted- and you know.

B

Like this is a personnel matter, so let's say you, there is.

E

Vision for appointing public official, it has to do with the selection process and.

E

That it requires, and it's a way of winnowing down your choices down to one.

E

Does call for a public interview with your opinion, go through a formal process.

E

Of interviewing, so so that has to be done. Butter mr. sterling, for all of our.

D

Candidates we have to do a public interview for a finalist when you narrow.

E

The list you're allowed to narrow the list in an executive session down to.

E

Three, unless you have less than three and there needs to be a public interview.

E

If you go through an interviewing process, okay, so- and I ask, are you.

C

Referring to this action or a future action that whoever the new.

C

Administrator attorney would be leading with council members input or.

C

Participation are we talking about the same thing here because it seems to me.

C

That what we're talking about now without the formalities and some other.

C

Decisions, it's, I don't want to say a done deal, but we're close to that. I'm.

C

More interested in the process in looking for mr. lucas's replacement.

C

Should maybe assume or your sponge? Okay, thank you for clarifying that and thank.

E

You first, you do not need to go through a formal interviewing process to make an.

E

Appointment, though, jackie who the council is, wants to move forward with.

E

What you're thinking about today, you can do that, so the process that we followed.

E

In selecting that the deputy was not done through committee, it was and.

E

Technically, it's the it was done as though by the council administrator.

E

Attorney and in that case, with the input of two counselors. So that's so and that.

E

Process took over a month so just be aware that you have to build in time and that's one.

E

Reason why we're having discussion today? If, in fact, you want to have a full.

E

Complement of staff on august first build in time. If you're choosing steven.

E

Lucas to replace him so that does not know bottom line. The hiring of the.

E

Interviewing and selection of a deputy attorney administrator does not require.

E

Committee and good- that's not that's not how it's been done in the past really.

B

Hasn't been done for 30 years so to replace team. That was that was done and.

C

I'd like to follow that process and see where the possible intrusion from our.

C

Committee structure may fall in place possible. I said possible, it's not be.

C

Bigger but but how can we with the the topic or the issue that we have on the.

C

Table today, what's the best way to move forward, do I need to make a motion that.

C

This committee vote on recommending him to the full council, with the caveat as I.

C

Said an updated resume is such-and-such I'm looking for direction here. I could.

E

Suggest and I think well, I yeah I was going to to describe a motion. I think I.

B

Can make the motion, but thank you the. I would like to move that we as a.

B

Committee recommend that the council of point steven lucas disturb, as he a.

B

Counsel attorney administrator starting august 1st 2020 handing resolution of.

B

Certain employment matters, which would be delegated to myself and councilmember.

B

Simms these matters would include that may not be limited to compensation for.

B

The physician and the candidates continued interest in the position. I.

B

Would need a second for that before before we move forward, and I.

C

Think that's a good motion. I'm only would that also include.

C

Councilmember, piedmont, smith, being part of the leadership or is it just you and.

C

I, as I know adequate know that committee is delegating to two measures of the.

B

Committee they that think so, even though we are the lead officer or as we also.

B

Have to be members of the committee? Okay, that's baby wants to volunteer customer.

B

Rallo to substitute for us I'm happy, we can stick them with some work. Any.

B

Discussion of the motion: does everyone understand the motion? Yes, no discussion.

D

For me, anyway, okay, I think that, because this is a formal committee meeting, we.

B

Should go to the public mr. miller, any member of the public who would like to.

B

Speak to the motion: if so, please use the raised hand, function in zoom or type.

B

Into the chat they would like to address the motion just made, I'm seeing no.

B

Takers b square beacon has raised its hand. Okay, we will unmute you squared b.

B

Okay, mr. askins, I think that you're a lot of yes, yes and my audience go ahead.

B

Yes, okay, I just had a clarification. Question council members, campbell larry.

F

Talked about making sure that there was a a proper search done but based on the.

F

Motion, it doesn't sound like there's going to be a cert, and I just wanted.

F

Some clarity as to what the intended process is here is the idea that there's.

F

Going to be a search, but that will be conducted sort of in the atmosphere of.

F

Having a positive recommendation for one of the potential candidates from this.

F

Committee, so just some clarity on what the search process will be like if any.

F

Would be appreciated? Thank you. Thank you. If a member would like to take up that.

B

Question they may and their comments on the motion. Is there any other member of.

B

The public who would like to speak to the motion, please raise your hand in.

B

Zoom or type into the chat wait 10 more seconds.

B

Anyone would like to speak to the motion. The madam clerk clerk clerk boldin.

B

Please go ahead, excellent choice. I commend you. Thank you for that comment.

B

Is there any other public comment on the motion? Please raise your hand and zoom.

B

Or type into the zoom chat, seeing that we'll come back to the committee for.

B

Debate is there any discussion on the motion.

B

Katz's members campbell larry, thank you. I appreciate the question from mr.

D

Baskin- and it encourages me to put a finer point on it on my statement when I.

D

I'd like to replace the words proper search with proper hiring process, I.

D

Think we can debate about whether or not stephen has had an a proper interview. I.

D

Am inclined to think he has one that spans several years here, but my concern.

D

Is for the integrity of the hiring process, both for the administrator and.

D

For the deputy administrator as well, so I am satisfied that that mr. lucas would.

D

Be an excellent appointment to administrator attorney and when I think.

D

About hiring processes, I think about searches that I've run before my almost.

D

Well, not all that I you but many and just a sensitivity to maintaining the.

D

Confidentiality of candidates, as long as we can not.

D

Adding them to current employers that they may consider just that, respectful.

D

Kind of communication that we do at candidates- that's the kind of thing I.

D

Would like to see done with any search, whether it's for our office or any any.

D

Any other office of the city, so that's just a chance to clarify my remarks.

D

There thank you swoosh camera valerie. Oh yes, please.

B

Done so I thought I was done to you and I'm not so just to confirm my.

D

Understanding with emotion you have before us, this committee was sent forth.

D

To the full council, a recommendation that we extend an offer of employment to.

D

Stephen lucas, pending confirmation of his interest and confirmation of.

D

Whatever salary discussions happen and that the hiring process for the deputy.

D

Administrator whenever that time comes will be run by the new attorney.

D

Administrator is that correct my understanding, correct that is correct.

B

That's correct and it does not need to be a part of the motion that is simply a.

B

While', you know how it's it's done that into your question. It does counselor.

B

Sims, oh no, I was gonna, say she's absolutely correct. I just didn't want to.

C

Run those two together, those are two separate things that she talked about.

C

Exactly but she's right in both of them, I think right. In fact it would. It will be the duty of the attorney administrator to.

B

Conduct that hiring process, whether it be by search, but I fairly think that we.

B

Would expect the attorney administrator to conduct a search of a deputy for a.

B

Debian's mr. sherman, yes, is a current attorney.

E

Administrator by consent to that process, you want the the future current that the.

E

Future attorney administrator to select to the deputy, so that I think it's.

E

Sensible- and I agree thank you mr. sherman, mr. sims, do you.

B

Have any comment is this final comment before we vote? Yes? Well, we can discuss.

B

There's there's I have you back and forth.

C

I have no discussion, just assume, make a comment and move forward.

C

Well, that's the same thing. Thank you. My comments is, as I think in mr. lucas case,.

C

Is eminently qualified, I think he's expressed his interest in.

C

This position, one of the things that that makes this really appealing from.

C

Our standpoint, in addition to his qualifications as interest, is from a.

C

Timing standpoint and we talked about the pending retirement of our current.

C

Attorney administrator or administrator attorney, and so this will aid that.

C

Timing and the final part of my comments that I support this recommendation. Thank.

B

You, mr. simms, I will stay a couple of things here. First of all that I was.

B

Careful when I would ask an individual council member what they've thought.

B

About the pending retirement and mr. shermin, how they thought that hiring.

B

Process should go, I did not, I mean, while I was, I was in on the hiring process for.

B

The deputy attorney position that mr. lucas won last year and I can say.

B

Without you know, I live in confidence. I think that he was the clear favorite and.

B

Not because he came into it being the favorite, but because of the way he.

B

Presented an interview, so I do think it's going to be important to have his.

B

Resume and for him to to at least send us a letter expressing his interest in.

B

Writing, but I also think that the council really should make it clear that.

B

By formal action that they want to hire that we collectively want to offer him a.

B

Position and that will make it easier to discuss. I mean that we shouldn't even.

B

If we offer him a position through a formal vote.

B

He still has to accept it, so you know it's just because we offer it to him.

B

Does not mean that he's become the member he's interested in it? He said.

B

He's interested, but you know we need to do that due diligence, so you know I.

B

Think that that would be the best way to handle it. I do think he's a superior.

B

Candidate, he understands the processes of council very, very well he's proven.

B

Himself, you know quite expert at managing our workload under mr. sherman.

B

Mr. sherman and clerk bolden his two previous bosses both recommend him.

B

Highly, I think we would be hard-pressed to find a better candidate. Simply put I.

B

Let alone one who knows this council already so well. Mr. sherman has given us.

B

A generous advance notice of his retirement he's been planning it for a.

B

Long time he's been very thoughtful and careful about you know, keeping a.

B

Surprise of his of his intentions and now that he submitted his retirement.

B

Notice we have time to replace a minute thoughtful way and if we were to be so.

B

Lucky as to when over mr. lucas, as our new attorney administrator, we still have.

B

I think adequate time to conduct an open search for someone to replace him as the.

B

Deputy led, of course, by the new administrator, this would only happen to.

B

Growers, if we, if we offer the job to mr. lucas- and he takes it if he does, that.

B

Creates an opening, but we do, as mr. sherman has said, want to be fully.

B

Staffed come august first, we're going to have.

B

First major turnover in decades, and while you know we, I think that he will.

B

Put us in the best hands we could possibly have at this point. You know it.

B

Is important that we act as expeditiously as we can so I think that.

B

We should extend an offer to mr. lucas. I think that you know the real challenge.

B

Is finding his replacement and that we should forward that's why I make this.

B

Motion we should forward to the council recommendation to ask mr. lucas if you'd.

B

Be interested in the position, formerly as a majority vote of council.

B

Are there any other comments before we take a vote? Yep.

B

Council member will go in alphabetical order, country scambler e to the ocean.

B

Customer sims, yes, and I also say yes, that's a 300 vote. I believe we can.

B

Forward that to the next session of council, we do have a special session on.

B

Wednesday, so we can also discuss that there, along with the first reading that.

B

We have potentially lined up that. We talked about the previous hour with that.

B

I think we move on to other matters. I do want to ask the admit, e24 time, a good.

B

Time for our next meeting, because we need to pick up with the rules committee.

B

Liftoff and I have been remiss in trying to schedule such a meeting- is this a.

B

Good time for members- or I mean we can do friday at noon, for me, you know- is.

B

There a better day or time that for rules committee for route for rules type.

B

Commit rules committee type work. For me, the best thing will be after after the.

C

Holiday today's philemon, no, I mean the best time to try to schedule future.

C

Meeting will be after that, oh I have a couple of things. Scattering ps.

C

Lit and some other stuff and I'm trying to avoid conflict so would not be proper.

C

For me today to try to schedule that without everything before make okay, we.

B

Will like the question to email poll, scambler e, did you have a comment just a.

D

Similar comment, I'm also part of feeis lit, but the jack hopkins activities will.

D

Be winding up on june 4th so workload aside, that will free up some.

D

Meeting time that is currently taking up with jack hopkins, does that make sense.

D

It does, in fact that leads me to a question. Would the committee members.

B

Have a problem with conducting questions about rules and process during our.

B

Scheduled recess- or I mean it's entirely up to cummings or duty members. If I can.

C

Ask having to do with what last year was we were working on council personnel.

B

Policy we were working on, I remember, but just for myself, I'm not interested in.

C

Working in that over the break up, a part of ps lit will be during part of that.

C

Break understood and we're getting close to it, not being a break, at least in that.

B

Time, that's why I'm asking that's why I'm asking I see a hand raised by the.

B

Clerk, I just if we are getting into scheduling the meetings if he could work.

A

Really closely with clark's staff, because we're getting pretty booked up.

A

In terms of everyone seems to be, and it's fine that's why I'm asking the.

B

Question I didn't want to schedule a meeting today if it was not the pleasure.

B

Of the committee to do so, and we don't want to put the clerk's office out.

B

Either so it does. I also have a request if deputy clerk mcdowell can respond to.

A

My message I sent her just a minute ago about this meeting in particular I'd.

A

Appreciate it: okay, we'll check.

B

With her in a minute customer scan blurry um it just listening to this.

D

Conversation, it sounds like it might be, helping to schedule a kind of an initial.

D

Orientation organizational meeting the week of june 8th and that still gives us.

D

An opportunity perhaps to meet a time or two before we go into recess. Mr. simms.

B

Any thought my thought is what I said originally. I can review this better at.

C

The beginning of next week, as long as a possibility.

B

Okay, hang on. I got a caller. Let me know I just wanted to know if you're booked.

B

All the way, through the recent, the beginning of recess. Well, I don't know I.

C

Mean I've got a licen other than counsel stuff and some.

C

Personal stuff, which understood okay, explain ready to speak well. Mr. simms is.

B

Miss mcdowell is she there? Yes, apparently, the clerk has a question for.

B

The deputy clerk, yes, I have responded.

B

It's it that we need to hear it or is that adventure question? Okay, alright, mr.

B

Simms last call yes go ahead, please well say it looks as though based on.

C

Council members gambler ease comment june 8th may work, I'm simply looking for.

B

An opportunity to meet between june, 8th and june 17th doesn't have to be on the.

B

8Th proper fine, that's what I just checked and looked at yes, I don't know.

C

If you want anything more than that, I can do that right now. That's fine! Okay!.

B

But at least we have a tentative date. I will circulate email asking for a date.

B

In that range, starting with the 8th, we'll pick this up via email next week,.

B

Okay, any other go ahead. I was just gonna say he's, probably just my own opinion.

C

But I think this type of thing will be more common, as we.

C

Move forward with our new structure: okay; okay with that there's no other business.

B

I really prepared to adjourn so moved. Second, all in favor say aye.

B

All right we're adjourned. Thank you all for attending and we'll see you next.

B

Week have a good lamar lee holiday.

G