City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 8 Sep 2020

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Bloomington City Council Administration Committee, September 8, 2020

Description

meeting agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=7542

A

This video will come to order. This is a meeting of the administration.

A

Committee for uh tuesday eighth of september, 2020.

A

um I see we have a quorum counselor, scandaloury and rallo.

A

Our present councilmember sims, I hope, will join us soon.

A

uh Tonight, we're talking about possible code updates to titles one and two.

A

uh Speaker timers at council meetings and.

A

We'll be addressing uh potential topics for future meetings, both the lists that.

A

I've begun with uh our attorney stephen lucas.

A

And items from that other members might.

A

There is there's consumer sims now thank you for joining us.

A

uh And then we'll uh open it up to other topics that.

A

Members might want to take up at future meetings, but.

A

One thing I can say is that we have a growing list of things that.

A

Need to be administratively decided how we go about doing business.

A

And, of course, we're going to talk about some of them today.

A

But let's start with item 2a in our agenda.

A

This is the first time I've ever had a chance to talk about title 1.

A

Of bloomington missile code and clerk nicole bolden is here to.

A

Tell us about the problem and her solution.

A

Clerk bolden, please take it away. Okay, well, good evening, everyone good to see.

B

Your faces um earlier this year, I realized that I.

B

Needed to get a new copy of the city seal done. I wanted a stamp.

B

And before I sent it to the printer, I thought I would double check.

B

The code to make sure that I had the right design.

B

And when I did so, I found out that there is both a city seal and a city logo.

B

Can I share my screen stephen? Yes, you should be.

C

Able to okay so if well, you know, I thought I was ready to.

B

Share it- and I was just not so.

B

So when I started looking at the um at the code, I found this, which was.

B

Ordnance, 7166 and if you can see it actually describes.

B

Bloomington city seal. The next thing I found, however, was 8602.

B

Which described the city logo so 71 we had a city seal, described.

B

And 86 we had the city logo in the code, there's no copy of how the.

B

City seal was supposed to look, there's no.

B

Picture there's just the written description in 7166.

B

So I asked somebody to do a mock-up of what the city seal would look like.

B

And this is it it's uh very 70s, as you can all see,.

B

It's got the serrated edge and the red atomic symbol.

B

The gold blue: it's a lot to look at.

B

And it's out there at all nicole. What is this out there at all, because I.

D

Don't I honestly don't think I've ever seen that.

B

I don't think most people have actually ever seen it. I'm gonna.

B

Pull up the city logos is designed, but yeah.

B

The only place I could find it described was in ordnance, 7166.

B

I couldn't find a picture in our files. I just I couldn't find anything.

B

B

When we had it drawn up, we did it strictly by the text of.

B

The ordinance and then um she actually did a couple of designs.

B

So we could see a couple of different variations on it.

B

This was another variation, so if you wanted to see this one as well.

B

um And not to interrupt, but I think you mentioned that there had.

C

There were some ambiguities in the in the description that led to some of.

C

These variations so yeah, and so it simply wasn't clear but.

B

I think- and I I can't quite tell, but I think the intent.

B

With 8602 was to make the snowflake design that we're all used.

B

To into the official city seal of the city.

B

But I think just the different wording between a city seal.

B

And a city logo led to this difference because, right now we.

B

Have a city seal and a city logo, and I can't find anything that says.

B

Otherwise, so I would propose that we make our city.

B

Logo, which was designed in 1986 our official.

B

City seal as well and any variations therein. This is a.

B

Mock-Up of what it could look like and I think that's everything.

B

And I can stop sharing the screen or not if you'd like, I don't know what you want.

B

A

Yes, all right are there questions from members about uh this? Well, let's start with a question.

A

From our attorney, mr lucas, just a suggestion, I don't know if clerk.

C

Baldwin could describe how she uses the city seal or what types of things she.

C

B

Okay by code, the clerk is the keeper of the city seal.

B

So I use the seal on marriage licenses. Funeral deeds.

B

um Oaths of office.

B

And chromium, sometimes, if you guys want them sealed properly.

B

Any certifications of legislation or the city code, I'm trying.

B

To think of all the things that we actually use the city seal for.

B

And um bonds and other insurance documents for the city.

B

That need to be sealed by the clerk's office in particular, so.

B

That's a quick rundown and I'm sure there are a few things that I'm missing.

B

But those are the most common uses of the city seal.

A

Everybody, okay, so with that, uh are there any.

A

Questions or concerns from members about.

A

The city seal: do we want to? uh Can I add one other thing please? I did.

B

Share the legislation and the.

B

Mock-Up of the city seal with um mary, katherine carmichael, and her.

B

Reaction was kind of a um so I don't think there'll be any.

B

Major objections from the administration, but I'd be happy to work with them. If.

B

You guys want to go forward with this. I do.

A

Personally, are there any okay? So are there any questions.

A

For clerk bolton councilmember scan blurry thanks.

D

With the exception of me, not being me being kind of more of a sans-serif.

D

Person, I think this is great and it makes sense because I've never.

D

Even seen um the other one until today.

D

That's because I've gone through all of this that I knew.

D

We have any standards for when and where the seal may be used, how it can be.

D

Modified and so forth, I know we have kind of shadow of it and.

D

Reverse type kind of stuff: do we have any?

D

We do have some standards for the city logo and where it can be used and how it.

B

Can be used, those um are on the city, knowledge base.

B

Okay- and um there are some guidelines for how it's supposed to be used, but.

B

I know those haven't been updated in a while over a decade. um The last time I.

B

Looked at them, they were the same as they were back in 2009, so they haven't.

B

Changed in terms of the guidelines for usage and that sort of thing.

B

Okay, um we do yeah, I don't I'm sorry what.

D

But we do have them, which is good, I think. Well, we do have them.

D

And if you um would you like me to pull that up really quickly.

D

If you could yeah, I mean whatever it doesn't take much effort.

D

um I don't think it does, I could be working. I know that iu has been through.

D

A lot with teaching people, no, not everybody, every.

D

School can't have its own logo, in addition to the id logo.

D

And so forth, so um just process of coming to standards that I knew was a.

D

Big deal so um you know what I'm gonna have to.

B

That's, okay, don't worry about it. I don't remember where it is now that I'm.

B

Thinking about it actually, yes, I do.

B

B

These are the guidelines and they have updated them. They used to have them. They.

B

Were much lengthier before these are just samples, so it looks like andrew, updated this in.

B

May 2020 so we'd probably have to go back and find the old guidelines.

B

Which included things about using um a half portion of it or if you faded it.

B

You could use it like this, but not like this, so.

B

It would be worth actually pulling that up and finding it again.

D

And just to ask the question, um because I know when I google search.

D

Half the time I wind up with bloomington minnesota.

D

Do they have a logo? Are we different from them.

B

I have no idea, oh actually go. Look please. Okay,.

B

There's also bloomington illinois and I think there's another.

B

Bloomington on the east coast and one on the west coast as well, but.

B

I we there is a bloomington new york and bloomington california, but they're.

A

They're they're not uh incorporated; okay, let other people look those up. Oh.

E

But our logo was designed by tim mayer, so nobody else will have that.

B

That is true, I mean you know. That is true.

B

And if you read 8602, you can actually see um not just that it was designed by.

B

Him but it was inspired by and that it's a combination of the peony and the trout lily, and you know how it depicts the downtown square. So there's an explanation of the.

B

Design itself and- um and it includes tim's name.

B

So it's it's a nice piece of our history as well.

A

My other colleagues, if they have questions, but I think I need to ask.

A

Sorry, no bloomington illinois has a logo, that's kind of a lead.

D

Thing too, but it's red and bloomington minnesota has a weird logo.

D

I'm sorry, that's unbelievable. Maybe we could let.

A

Sue share her screen at some point, but I I guess the question I want to ask.

A

Is do we need legislation for this? um I think. Yes, you do, because if you.

B

Look 7166 actually incorporated into the.

B

Bloomington city code, so if you see in the bloomington city.

B

Code, the seal heretofore design shall become the official seal of the city and it refers to 7166. So without.

B

Legislation I see um you're still stuck with the.

B

A

Yeah, okay, yeah uh class members or sims: do you have uh questions about.

A

This item, no, I think, we've talked about it. I think.

E

We've talked about it before so this is non-controversial pretty easy.

E

E

I think it's simple: let's do it and we're not.

A

We're not voting on anything tonight, we're just discussing it so.

A

I mean present it so that it's official nicole will have to do that. I mean I'll.

E

Have to get on the schedule and all that stuff, but it'll, be simple. I think okay.

E

If it's pressing or if that, if not then put it off until february or something.

E

I mean let's, let's just do it well, I I would like to order a new seal, so I.

B

Could actually do stuff so, but that's just you know, so I'm not.

B

Carrying around the big iron thing, I think council member rollo.

B

Wanted to say something, but his sound was off.

A

That's morello gospel overall you're there can you hear.

A

A

I guess it's not okay, I don't know if you.

C

Well, it might help to disconnect and then.

C

Log back in I don't know if that might reset your audio.

C

Looks like he can hear us yeah.

B

Or you can use the chat, okay or the chat. um Should I stop sharing the screen now.

B

Or keep it up? Yes, please, which one.

A

That's very scary: did you want to show another logo? Give me a second.

D

Minnesota, oh.

A

Home of mall of america and the msb airport, I think.

D

E

I thought the mall of america was in st.

E

Paul, no it's in bloomington. Is it okay.

A

Yeah, which is why I like to make fun of it.

A

I'm sort of a blueington indiana chauvinist.

E

And you admitted it.

A

I'm not ashamed and that's bloomington.

A

But I wonder if these logos are also their seals.

D

Yeah I've seen that logo before.

D

So no great fun: okay,.

A

Well, I want to keep it moving um if there's no objections.

A

It sounds like a click bolding, you have, you know pretty clear uh indication of.

A

Interest, I think from the committee. I certainly don't object to a seal.

A

Being redone and that that thing you had drawn up, it was.

A

Competently executed, but one of the disappointing uh city seal.

A

You know 50 years ago any other closing thoughts. We move on the next thing. We've.

A

A

Okay, uh we'll go now to talk about fiscal impact statements.

A

Mr lucas, can you uh enlighten us? I will do my best to try.

C

So uh title two of our code, uh specifically uh 2.04.290.

C

Let me actually see if I can just display that if you give me just a.

F

C

Can everyone see that.

C

So this is the section looking at.

C

This section of code states that a fiscal impact statement is.

C

Required to accompany any uh any legislation that makes a major.

C

Impact on existing city appropriations, fiscal.

C

Liabilities uh or revenues and describes.

C

What that statement should include um it states that it shall be prepared by.

C

The city agency, submitting the legislation.

C

Shall be signed um if this, if the legislation directly affects city.

C

Funds, uh it states that the controller shall complete that part of the.

C

Statement dealing with information on the funds affected. It talks about council staff having the ability to edit.

C

This statement it says that if an agency determines.

C

That the legislation will not have a major fiscal impact uh on on the city that the agency shall submit.

C

A fiscal impact statement stating that conclusion and the basis for it.

C

um This uh I'm sorry getting.

C

Requests from committee member rallo just a moment.

C

So this this portion of our code, as you can see,.

C

Here um has existed since at least 1979. I've not looked.

C

Back farther than that, but I suspect it's been in existence longer than that.

C

Ordinance 7997, which is listed here, was actually a repeal and replace of a.

C

Much larger portion of title ii, um so I don't.

C

Believe this provision was first enacted in 1979, but it's existed.

C

At least that far back in 2013 the let me just display something else.

C

Can you all see this now? Yes, okay, so in 2013.

C

um There was a provision taken out that obviously.

C

Is no longer in our existing code that provision essentially gave the.

C

Gave a council, member or even council staff, I believe the authority to delay.

C

Legislation until a fiscal impact statement had been submitted.

C

And they took that provision out and I wanted to.

C

Show this uh ordinance in particular, because as far back as 2013.

C

It looked like um there was some acknowledgement that.

C

These fiscal impact statements had not been.

C

Completed um either the council, the city as a whole, wasn't using them.

C

And this says that the submittal of fiscal impact statements with certain.

C

Pieces of legislation uh hadn't been practiced for decades.

C

This question came up recently and I wanted to kind of give give the.

C

Background um I did have a chance to talk to dan sherman about this. um I can't remember if it was before he.

C

Retired or after I think it was after uh his recollection was, was the same as.

C

As what was noted in ordnance 2013, that these fiscal impact statements.

C

um Had come up from time to time, I think in 2013 there may have been an issue.

C

That led to a change, and at that time it appears as though.

C

Stacy, jane rhodes, who was the former council.

C

Deputy attorney actually drafted up a sample statement for use by the.

C

Administration, it's unclear if this was ever shared.

C

With anyone outside of the council office.

C

um But this has now been shared with with the administration.

C

But I guess the more fundamental question is. It seems like these.

C

Statements haven't been submitted for decades.

C

The recent discussion of these statements.

C

Jeff underwood noted that the information required.

C

Is readily available uh on uh forms that are required to be.

C

Submitted to the dlgf, uh the information should be available.

C

On gateway- um and I don't know that I have any any.

C

Particular proposal like the clerk's office did for the logo.

C

It's more a discussion to bring the attend, bring the issue to your.

C

Attention to see what fixes you all might be interested in, um I think.

C

I guess my only recommendation is if, if this provision of our code is allowed to.

C

Continue to be in our code, we should find some way to follow it.

C

If we have no intention of following it, uh we should remove it from the code or.

C

Amend amended to reflect what we intend to do. That was a.

C

Pretty quick summary I can answer questions or go back and.

C

Display anything that you'd like me to again, I wasn't able to.

C

Find any actual examples of these statements actually.

C

Being filled in the only form I found.

C

That had anything to do with these fiscal impact statements was the sample form that I believe, stacy jane rhodes had created back in 2013.

C

Yes, okay, uh questions. Counselors can blurry.

D

What, um if I'm understanding you correctly.

D

A lot of this information is already available in gateway anyway,.

D

I guess my question is: what about that form that stacey, jane developed or what.

D

About a fiscal impact statement is not duplicative of what's already out.

D

There does that question make sense. It did are.

C

We giving up anything by by not having these fiscal impact statements, I think, is what you're getting at.

C

um I mean the data. Is there it's just? What is what does this form do? That is.

D

Not gonna be done, if any. I don't know, since this form has.

C

Not been done in my lifetime, I think if the committee is interested.

C

I can talk to the controller about whether.

C

The information that is available on gateway or through the form submitted to.

C

The dlgf would be available at the same time.

C

So this form, I think the intent is to have this form available before the.

C

Council votes on on a proposal that would have a major fiscal impact to the.

C

City, um I believe the controller has.

C

Indicated that that same information should be available.

C

Publicly but I'd like to confirm whether it would be available uh with the same.

C

Lead time, as as a fiscal impact statement, um I think you.

C

Also raise a good point that it may not all be neatly contained, and you know a.

C

One-Page form like we've, like has been designed by my predecessor,.

C

So if that's something you're interested in, I can follow up again.

D

What I'm not suggesting we keep or lose this form, but.

D

I'm just interested in what it does different for us differently for.

D

D

Thank you other questions.

A

um If, if I I don't see my colleagues asking so I'll ask one.

E

Member, oh, he was frozen. Councilman rallo go ahead.

G

Well, steve you've been you and I have been around for a while.

G

And uh if if the administration comes with certain policies,.

G

Well, obviously, if there's it involves an appropriation, we know that what the.

G

Fiscal impact is, but if we.

G

But I think that I've heard the question question.

G

Issued from council members before what is what is the fiscal impact of this and.

G

We've had answers, provided that I'm sure we're reflected in the.

G

Minutes, and so it's not as though we're not.

G

Attuned to this, whether it needs to be formalized.

G

It doesn't seem like it's been necessary in the past and I don't understand what.

G

You know so it seems to me that when, when necessary, we've had this.

G

Ability to obviously find out um we control the purse of the city, so.

G

Anyway, I just it's sort of a comment, but council member steve: do you do you do.

G

You remember that we've often asked about physical impact.

G

Certain policies and wanting to feel out, you know if it.

G

What it might be, your recollection, we we have, but uh not.

A

I mean there are plenty of ordinances that have none.

A

But uh you know this calls for every basically, the first thing I notice about.

A

This is that uh every ordinance could be construed as.

A

Having a fiscal impact, if you really wanted to, um but it.

A

Certainly seems like it should require a fiscal impact.

A

Statement for every ordinance we've ever passed because.

A

uh Zero impact is a valid response, so you know my question in turn.

A

Is why did anyone ever think this was useful.

A

I mean it was past 40 years ago. What might they have been thinking at the.

A

Time, I know nobody here would might know but like uh what maybe they didn't have gateway.

A

Maybe they didn't have an easier way.

A

To see the budget, you know like what I'm trying to figure.

A

Out like maybe, if we could figure out the original intent, we would know what the point of it was, but it seems.

A

Fairly pointless, we can simply ask what's the fiscal impact of this policy.

A

If one of us really wants to know and we've never not gotten an.

A

Answer from the administration.

A

uh Cut clerk bolden and then councilman sims.

G

Actually, I remember once when we did.

B

I was just going to say we might be able to look back through the minutes and see.

B

If there's any comment on the legislation back then.

A

Well, we might, but uh I have actually dug into 79.97.

A

Before can't find it, uh no I didn't say I couldn't find it, but.

A

uh Good luck like I, I hope you do find something I I'd.

A

Be interested to go back and look for this uh topic.

A

But I don't know it may not be either uh counselor sims.

E

I was just I just had a comment: um it's good to go back and look at it from.

E

Historical view, I just don't understand how something 40.

E

Years ago was going to what's the impact on what we're talking.

E

About today I think, do we want to move forward and require, as the.

E

The legislation says or do we just want to keep asking questions.

E

I think and not to speak for mr lucas, but it's on the books so either it's on.

E

The books and we follow it or we ask questions and don't follow and.

E

Then, if we don't follow it, then we need to delete it. Is that what I'm hearing.

E

That's that's my recommendation. If we, if we follow it, let's do it if not delete.

E

It I mean I'm, I mean it'd, be interesting.

C

But I think what we're asking is: is there any merit to following it? Well.

E

I don't really care what happened 40 years ago. I'm thinking do we want to then implement it if not delete it.

E

And I think that's decision before us right now. um I think council member had.

E

A very good point: we we ask questions, we get the answers on.

E

The fiscal impact uh since I've been on there, so that's never been an issue with me, um but you know that that's my comment.

A

And I can that's morale. I seem to recall that there was.

A

Oh sorry, mr lucas, go ahead! Sorry, if it's, if it's helpful, I wanted to highlight.

C

The provision that was taken out in 2013 this provision here.

C

Said that in the event of fiscal impact, statement is not submitted or the statement states that there is no major fiscal impact.

C

Council staff actually or any member of the council can request the statement.

C

Before a final vote is taken, uh the council shall then either decide.

C

By a two-thirds vote of the members to accept the statement as submitted or.

C

Postpone the legislation until the statement is.

C

Provided um again when I talked to dan sherman about.

C

This he indicated that that was taken out. I don't know if, if.

C

Something sparked that, but it was taken out. I think, out of concern that a council, member or council staff might hold up a an.

C

Appropriation or an ordinance, a council member vol, may have more to add but might hold up a piece of legislation on.

C

This basis and that wasn't the intent or that wasn't what they wanted at the time. So that was taken out council member vol.

C

Might have more to add yeah I mean I recall that that's exactly.

A

Why it was taken out is that a member was planning to use it as a you.

A

Know it was using it as a threat to say you know he didn't like.

A

Legislation that was coming forward and.

A

Found this obscure passage, um so I don't know how long before this.

A

Was passed that that happened, but um we.

A

Just sort of it was a band-aid fix. You know I have to go back to the.

A

Meetings, I'd also like to note that, as written, I believe the current provision.

C

um Says that if the uh city agency submitting the.

C

Legislation um determines that the legislation will.

C

Have uh will not have a major fiscal impact.

C

Statement, the agency will still submit a fiscal.

C

Impact statement stating that conclusion in the basis for it, I read that to say that these fiscal impact statements according to this code.

C

Provision should be submitted with every piece of legislation.

C

um If it has a fiscal impact, a major fiscal impact, it should state that.

C

And if it doesn't have a major fiscal impact statement.

C

Or a major fiscal impact, it should state that it doesn't and the reasons why so.

C

um Again, um uh ordinance uh 2013 is major defined.

C

That's another problem, so I I guess my question: might the potential options.

C

Moving forward would be to remove this provision.

C

Amend it somehow to either better define when, when these fiscal impact statements.

C

Should be submitted, what legislation they should go with.

C

And what you'd want to see on those forms on the fiscal impact statement.

C

Forms um or you could leave it as.

C

Is and we could we could uh try to comply with it.

C

um I think, um as the controller mentioned, it's not that this information.

C

Is not available, uh so I don't know that it would be.

C

I'd have to talk to them about the impact on their staff or their ability to actually get this compiled into one form ahead of every.

C

Piece of legislation.

A

Annie uh councilman baralo.

G

I did, can you hear me I I did want to say yeah.

F

uh Customer volund you, you said that in every case.

G

We have gotten compliance from the administration when asked about.

G

Fiscal impact of certain policies- I actually remember a case when it that.

G

Wasn't that didn't happen and it was very early.

G

In my tenure I think you might have been on at the time, but it was the first administration I served under briefly, and uh there was quite that one before my.

A

So we had quite a bit of difficulty and.

G

Particularly council member ruff and I getting.

G

uh Numbers from the controller, and um so it was, um I guess, maybe.

G

In a you know, in a state of some antagonism between council and.

G

Administration, you know something like this can come in.

G

Handy but I I tend to agree with councilmember.

G

Sims that, if this is something that seems to be redundant.

G

Right now, we should probably eliminate it. I think we we have.

G

We have the means by which we can, through gateway.

G

Assess fiscal impact: it's there have been moves by the the.

G

Administration be transparent in that regard.

G

If we want specifics, council asks invariably we get.

G

A response, um so that's my feeling right now.

A

So it sounds like what you're saying is.

A

While we haven't used it, uh it has the potential to be useful. Well.

G

It does it, you know, but that was a very rare case.

G

Maybe it will happen in the future. You know.

G

um I mean that was 18 years ago.

A

I mean uh counselor sims, well, I'm and I I think it's clear. I don't have.

E

Near the tenure that my two colleagues have so I'm trying to.

E

Think how would we use this? I mean some of the.

E

Legislation that we've dealt with since I've been on the.

E

Council, I'm thinking in terms of an example.

E

Of uh tax abatements on projects, um I'm thinking of a pilot payment in.

E

Lower taxes that we did with cook, those would have uh fiscal impacts, and I.

E

Think when we've dealt with that, it's been clear. What those you know what we were giving up um in order to.

E

To support that project, so I'm trying to think of other examples.

E

Where there was- and I think the word major might be- you know that kind of the issue here. So what is major.

E

You know we uh I'm thinking of recovery forward.

E

um Just most recently- and I think it was clearly explained what the fiscal impact.

E

Was and how it was going to affect our reserves and rain. You know that sort of thing so again, I'll. Just repeat what I said: if.

E

We want to use it, let's enact it and require it, and if not,.

E

Let's delete it or we can rewrite it, as mr lucas says, so that we can pull it out.

E

When we think we need it, if we're not getting the answers that we think we.

E

Want so I guess that's it so.

A

That's over scandal, lurie. Thank you, mr sims. That's mayor, scandaluri.

D

Thank you, um mr lucas, can you comment again.

D

On um what what the implications of having this.

D

Form would be for staff and council officers. I know.

D

You don't have anybody from the controller's office here, but.

D

What would this require of you all? What kind of burden would it place on on you.

D

All or wouldn't you I don't, really see a.

C

Major burden on council staff- I um you know the the form that has been.

C

Drafted up is, is a pretty good uh sample form that the.

C

Administration could use. It would simply be including that, along with any legislation um that goes out for release in our packet.

C

Maybe, following up on on details, if there are.

C

Portions that the administration is unclear on or not certain how to how to.

C

Answer but um I, as far as council staff perspective,.

C

I it wouldn't be a major, a major impact on on us. um I.

C

I I do think um before um either you know. Obviously we don't.

C

Have to decide to leave this in it it's already in in our code,.

C

um But if if this committee's preference is to.

C

To leave this provision in and and find a way to follow it, I think you'd want.

C

Input from the controller's office and we've talked briefly about this.

C

uh And again, I think jeff underwood has commented publicly that.

C

This information is is available, but again.

C

Whether it's all available in a neat form or.

C

Available, all ahead of a vote on a piece of legislation is something I'd want to.

C

Talk to him about and also I I'm getting the comment from.

C

uh One of our meeting attendees- and I think this touches on.

C

Committee member stan valerie's question: that is there any piece of information.

C

Required by this form that that isn't required elsewhere, that we couldn't get.

C

Elsewhere, um so I will try to follow up with the.

C

Controller on that and uh uh and get more information, but.

C

um If the controller is able to fill in the form, it's it's easy for staff to.

C

To include that with legislation and to follow up on council number sims.

D

Comments, if we wanted to keep this tool in our toolkit.

D

So to speak, but not require it for every every single resolution or ordinance.

D

That comes before us. What would it take to do that? What would.

D

C

um You'd want to specify when it is required and when it's not.

C

And if you're going to state that it's to be made available upon request, you.

C

Know that was the provision that was taken out.

C

There was a provision that said that, uh if one, if.

C

A fiscal impact statement is not provided, then any council, member or.

C

Council staff can request a form and then the council must vote by.

C

Two-Thirds majority to uh um to either move forward with the form.

C

As submitted or postponed the legislation, so you'd want to be clear on.

C

uh When a form is required, when it's not um what happens when you request one and.

C

It's not provided so.

A

Oh sorry, well, uh councilmember, oh, go ahead! All right! Go ahead! Mr lewis,.

C

The council I mean, uh as uh I can't remember, maybe it was.

C

Committee member rallo pointed out uh the council controls the.

C

Appropriations from the city, it can request more than just this form.

C

It could state that you know before work before I am comfortable voting on.

C

This item I'd like to see one two and three: you know piece of.

C

Pieces of information um and uh and the administration has.

C

I think been pretty willing to provide information, but.

C

Again, administrations change, so I think the question is: do you want to require.

C

This with every piece of legislation, and if not you know whether, whether it's in code or not, doesn't stop you from requesting it.

C

So um it's just a matter of whether you want to specify what happens if they.

C

Don't provide it, I think.

A

Customer sims yeah. um I think the last thing.

E

My last comment on this is: I see the importance of such a fiscal impact.

E

Statement requirement if, in fact, we're in a.

E

Situation where there was lack of trust, say.

E

Between council and administration or whoever's, bringing.

E

Something to us um that we have reason to doubt or not have full trust.

E

And that our questions aren't being answered.

E

So that's my thought on that and I would also say mr lucas, when you're talking to.

E

The controller what I'm interested in- and I know this.

E

Might be a little bit obscure, but I want to know what is the fiscal impact.

E

On us requiring fiscal impacts, statements well done.

A

It sounds to me from hearing my colleagues that.

A

The solution to this is to rewrite and not repeal, um and especially to.

A

Define the word major that uh there are cases where.

A

It would be important to find out what we may be.

A

Losing by adopting this, what we may be defunding or not, funding.

A

But uh you know like there's still some function.

A

In it, I you know, sounds good to me and I think that maybe.

A

Staff, can, uh you know, can go like maybe.

A

Staff could develop some spec language that would.

A

uh You know clean it up. I think that we would all be.

A

uh There there would be a a sponsor, even among.

A

A member of this committee.

A

So any other thoughts before we move on.

A

You're all frozen, no, listen, okay, good! All right.

A

Well, uh we've only got about 15 minutes left.

A

This is the that was the first of three items that would fall under title two.

A

The second is board and commission vacancies.

A

Stephen, do you want to present this or you want me to.

C

uh I can start presenting that it may be a topic.

C

That takes longer than 15 minutes, but I can get.

C

Nicole shaking her head, yes, uh I don't know if there's a.

C

Shorter topic left, though um they all might take a bit.

C

More time than uh than 15 minutes, so I can get.

C

Started on this one, um maybe before we do that, we can talk about.

A

What the the remaining topics are about and uh then figure out.

A

uh You know: do we want to take these up uh and, if so, when, and for how long and.

A

How much time should we schedule next time you know, um but if we can briefly discuss this idea, so we know what it's.

A

About sure, I think I can give a brief summary.

C

Of the remaining agenda items um uh boarding, commission vacancies.

C

Under our local code, there's a process that uh kicks in upon uh a vacancy on one of the city's boards and commissions.

C

And as written, our code currently states that.

C

Let me see if I can just display it.

C

uh Again, this is another uh process that was put in place in.

C

In the 70s and this provision states that, upon.

C

A vacancy so either someone's term expires or they resign.

C

uh Midterm uh the city border commission um that that has the vacancy is supposed.

C

To write a synopsis regarding the vacancy, uh including certain information uh about the vacancy, including.

C

The name of the border commission, a number of vacancies.

C

Any eligibility requirements, duties of the board.

C

And an estimate of the time and the time associated with serving on the.

C

Board and any compensation uh once they write this.

C

Synopsis up uh our code says that uh it should be.

C

Sent to either the mayor's office or the council office, depending on who makes.

C

Who fills that uh seat upon receiving the synopsis.

C

Those offices can edit them and then send those to the local media, along with.

C

Instructions on how folks can apply for the vacancy.

C

That is the process. That's spelled out in code again. I think it's a practice.

C

That hasn't been followed for quite some time.

C

I think the information that is required by that section.

C

um Is readily available, at least most of that information is.

C

Readily available, uh all the time on on the city website.

C

And um if not, we'd certainly have the ability to add it.

C

To the website um I don't know the last time anyone has done an.

C

Audit for whether all of our separate board and commission pages list.

C

All of that information that would be needed in a synopsis, but I.

C

Think it's the same idea that our code says that we should be.

C

Following a process that doesn't seem to have been followed for quite some time, I think this one in particular is a bit outdated.

C

Given that we have the ability to make all of that information.

C

Continuously available to the public, when we do send out a press release, so I.

C

Can I can briefly tell you the process that that has been followed.

C

That I've, seen and nicole might have more to add upon.

C

A vacancy there is a press release sent to.

C

The local media, it announces the vacancy, it typically points to.

C

um To onboard, which is where folks can apply for vacancies,.

C

um And uh that also has that information again most of that should have most of.

C

That information, that the synopsis is meant to contain um on the website so.

C

We essentially point folks to a page that has all of that information.

C

On there, um the you know the process of the boarding.

C

Commission writing up this synopsis and then sending it to the office for us.

C

To edit doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because again, uh that information is something that we should already have.

C

um It doesn't change and if it did change, we'd be updating the website.

C

So um that's just a brief, quick uh overview of the problem.

C

Nicole, I don't know if you have anything to add.

B

Oh, I I would just add that some of the information, the synopsis.

B

The synopses were all updated and um their information was looked at.

B

I think it was in 2016 or 17 and I think the administration was.

B

The leader on that on updating the websites on the.

B

Web page on onboard most of the synopsis, don't include.

B

How much time each border commission will require from somebody who's.

B

Applying so I think, that's the big difference, that's missing. They include a.

B

uh They include the meeting the meeting times, but they don't include.

B

The additional time I don't know that anyone will be able to say how many.

C

How long meetings will go? It's not for the meetings it's for the additional.

B

Activities that some of the boards and commissions require, like the human rights commission, has their regular meetings, but they also do.

B

Things like the vital quiz bowl, the fourth of july parade, um I'm.

B

Thinking of the things that I've gotten called and said: hey, we need you to be the extra body on this. So that's the only reason I would think of those that one in particular, so some of the boards and commissions have that additional.

B

Time requirement, but I I don't know um I don't know it's more a matter of.

B

Updating on board and removing that requirement or, however,.

B

You guys want to do it, some of that I mean it's variable. I mean.

C

I I think the idea is to give the public an idea of what they're getting into.

C

When they join a board or commission- and uh some of that depends on the activities of the board, so the extent that information is known available- it's certainly something that they can put on the website. I think what we may be missing from the.

C

Synopsis is a statement synopsises.

C

Is a statement that most of the boards and commissions are not paid.

C

And I don't know that each and every one that isn't paid states that.

C

But that's again, something that can be added fairly fairly easily, so.

C

um That's actually a more detailed explanation than I meant to give. I can.

C

We can either talk about this one or I can briefly go on to the other agenda.

C

Items just to give a preview, we only have 10.

A

Minutes we should probably just synapsize the other items.

C

um So uh yeah we can come back if we have any.

C

Time for questions, the next item on the agenda is a uh an idea that I think council member volun may want to.

C

Talk about uh to require advanced uh sign up for public comment at council.

C

Meetings, um I don't have a lot of history with.

C

With this particular idea of whether the council's looked at this before.

C

But it's certainly something other cities require uh and it kind of times.

C

Into another issue that didn't make it onto the event, but that we are looking at, uh which is uh how do we accommodate.

C

uh Folks with hearing disabilities or uh hearing problems.

C

With asl translators or some other similar.

C

Service, so if if the council were to require.

C

Advanced sign up, one of the questions we could ask folks is.

C

Do you would you like to request any sort of accommodation.

C

um You know something like an asl translator be made available.

C

And I don't know that it would need to be limited to that particular accommodation. It's just one that comes to mind, so there would certainly be um you know some logistical uh things. We'd have to.

C

Work out with how do we, where do folks sign up? How do we tell.

C

Them how to sign up what happens if they miss the sign up, they show up to the.

C

Meeting anyway, those aren't things, we've really worked.

C

Through but uh it's a topic that I think council member volun was.

C

Interested in in raising- and I don't know if he'd add anything.

A

uh No, that's a pretty good synopsis. I would only add that.

A

I've also thought about another aspect of public comment, which is.

A

uh How many cities require uh that the speaker give their.

A

Address, uh I think it's primarily to establish that they're.

A

A resident of the city versus uh you know from.

A

Another jurisdiction, uh there's a privacy issue. There.

A

But it's not really related to the advanced sign-in.

A

Or sign up uh the advanced signup would.

A

Let uh the council get a sense of how much public comment. There would be.

A

But we've done that pretty well, uh you know in the past we just do it.

A

At once for the moment- and we don't have a sense of.

A

How much time, for example, to engage uh would be.

A

Asl translators, since we paid them by the hour.

A

um So that's part of a greater effort that this item three is about.

A

To uh try to limit the obligation we have to be in a public.

A

Meeting to a predictable time, so that's the.

A

Gist of that idea,.

C

Seeing lots of hands raised.

A

I see fears and screens, so I can't call on anybody. He can't say to.

A

Councilmember sam's narco and I think um councilmember rallo- is.

E

Next, um my comment is: um am not in support of the people in the.

E

Public providing their address, with this exception,.

E

What is the confidentiality of that? Should they provide that information.

E

um If it's in a public meeting, then I would think it would be public information and I'm not comfortable with that. um So.

E

And the next thing, if, in fact, for public comments and we're.

E

Providing certain things like the asls um and.

E

Other possibilities, um what I'm also wanting to hear is.

E

At least at this point is what will be the fiscal impacts of those decisions.

E

Council member councilmember rallo is next.

A

Thank you uh thanks. I think it's kind of it's onerous to have people sign up.

G

To speak publicly, I I think that the tradition has been.

G

If you show up to meeting you know, we have a certain amount of time allotted.

G

And we can work it in in terms of giving address. I think it.

G

Would be sufficient to just have people say whether they live in bloomington or not, you know, do you live within the city of.

G

Bloomington, do you live in monroe county um and then.

G

I can't remember: what's the last: oh, if, if people.

G

Require some sort of special assistance like esl.

G

You know make that known on our website. You know if you would like to speak to.

G

The council, uh please contact us before you come to.

G

Speak in case, you need some sort of.

G

Special assistance- maybe that's my comment.

G

Thanks thanks for do you have a comment.

D

Mr lucas, how you've seen it work in other cities? It sounds like how far in.

D

Advance are we talking? Are we talking beginning of the meeting.

D

Are we talking a collection of sign ups for each.

D

Comment period, how would it help me visualize how this could work.

C

I think it would depend on what sort of accommodations you'd like to.

C

Tell folks you're you're willing to arrange for them so.

C

For example, the asl translators that the council used earlier in the year and and.

C

Part of last year, uh they request a week's notice.

C

Before attending a meeting, so if again, this ties into kind of a.

C

Broader question of of whether we provide asl.

C

Translators at meetings, or only upon request.

C

If it's upon request you'd want to, you know tell folks they need to let us.

C

Know so many days ahead of time so that we can set that up so.

D

Yeah for those who don't require special accommodations.

D

Or assistance um up that day, can they sign up in real.

D

Time during the meeting uh I'll defer to council member volun, I.

C

Think there are a number of different ways to to do it and.

C

uh Certainly, if um you know we at regular meetings, they.

C

They are required to sign up and they sign up on a on a sign in sheet, as.

C

They're making their comment, or just after so the purpose of that is to, uh I think, really just to have a record of who made.

C

Comments and uh get get the correct spelling of their.

C

Names for the uh for the minutes, nicole, shaking her head. Yes,.

C

um It wouldn't be too hard to add a question on that form. You know, are you a.

C

City resident yes or no um yeah, nicole.

B

I don't know it helps, but one of the things we discussed doing for the.

B

Clerk's office was to um change the sign-in sheet to a google.

B

Form or something like that that people could actually just type their name in quickly and have it reload. So we do have some of the technology that would be required for.

B

That it's just a matter of securing it, but I.

B

Don't know I want to go one step further and say.

A

That I disagree with council morello that it's sufficient, as just say, you're,.

A

A resident of the city, many many people do not know that their.

A

Bloomington address does not make them the city resident.

A

We have, on our website a form that you can fill out.

A

The city website that tells you, if you are uh a city resident or not.

A

Where you can sign up for city services or the like,.

A

We, if we can integrate that into a sign-in form.

A

uh That people can type in during the meeting.

A

Will at least have a record not only of how to spell their name, but we don't.

A

Actually need their address if we can have an independent verification that they are, in fact a city resident and that's what I'm going for so that might kill several birds with one stone.

A

It would prevent the privacy issues that I share. uh Mr sims.

A

Concern over, even as it verifies and validates.

A

That someone who's speaking, is or is not a resident of the city.

A

So uh there I think there may be a technical solution to this.

A

But clearly it's gonna take some development. How do we verify.

E

What they're telling us is true in the context of a.

E

Meeting or just before a meeting uh after they've spoken, there could be a.

A

Terminal next to the podium that they type in their name and then they type in.

A

Their address and our city website validates whether.

A

They're, a city resident or not, and that's the only part of the record.

A

That goes to the clerk. Well, we we may need someone to be there.

E

To do that to input that information for them, um several people that I know that speak in our public comments are not um technologically savvy or comfortable.

E

Doing that and I don't want to do something- that's going to limit that comment um and I was going to say last school.

E

Board meeting I attended, you basically signed up and you wrote.

E

Your question and submitted it to that administrator.

E

And then they would pull the question and read it, and I can't remember.

E

I think it had my phone name and phone number.

E

And then you wrote out the question and some people.

E

They didn't get to all the questions, so you know, I think, we're a little.

E

Different in that regard, um and that we're not going to have 50.

E

Questions and then only read, 20 and and discount.

E

Or not get to the other 30., so I think this is going to take more.

E

And I understand your point to make things more efficient, more effective and.

E

I get all that, um but it's going to require a little bit more discussion. I.

E

Think um I agree and so just to sum up what.

A

We've uh just to sum up what we've done, because it's time uh it sounds like uh with title one. We want to recommend.

A

uh To the clerk to go ahead and put together uh legislation, it sounds like.

A

Fiscal impact statements need repair board, commission vacancies.

A

Need more thought and so does process republic accommodate advanced sign up.

A

So we're gonna have to skip speaker timers. I think.

A

Because we're out of time- um and uh I I'm gonna just ask members to.

A

uh uh Mr lucas, if you could circulate the list of other topics,.

A

That our potential fodder for the admin committee.

A

Members could add to that list anything that they see fit.

A

How does that sound? I think that works and if there are other questions that we.

C

Didn't get to about any of the items we've talked about you can reach out to nicole, or I nicole or me.

A

I'm sorry for the rushed nature of this, but.

A

uh Thank you all for attending. uh We did make some progress here and.

A

I think that uh in preparation for the next meeting, we'll have.

A

A little bit more better spelled out.

A

Goals and uh I'll take suggestions from members about how much time.

A

If more than an hour that we might want to spend.

A

In this meeting, so with that, I want to thank you all.

A

And if there's no objection like to adjourn.

E

No objection, thank you all have a good evening. Thank you.

A

Thank you have a good evening.

F

F