City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 26 Feb 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington City Council Land Use Committee, February 26, 2020

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meeting agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5501

A

All right, I would like to call to order this meeting of the land use committee.

A

Of the common council of bloomington indiana for wednesday february 26 2020.

A

We have one item on the agenda, which is ordinance 2004 to amend the city of.

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Limitations owning maps by rezoning property from business park, residential.

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Single-Family and to join an existing planned unit development and to approve.

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The associated district ordinance preliminary plan at 1550, north arlington.

A

Park drive train, itas petitioner, mr. graylek, I think you indicated there was.

A

Not much new from the staff side to report is that correct. I was just going.

B

To reserve time for questions and answers, so there's really nothing presentation-wise that I had knew. Okay! Thank you. Yes, I just want to remind.

A

Everybody that this is kind of a continuation of a discussion we started.

A

Two weeks ago, so we will not have an overview presentation, but I believe the.

A

Petitioner has some new information to present to us? Is that right so come on.

A

Up and state your name for the record and give us any updates. You have I'm.

C

Kimberly hansen with trinity us- and we just wanted to say we're, excited to be.

C

Here again, we appreciate it all the feedback we got last time and dan.

C

Moriarty, our architects has been working on some items for you, so I'm gonna go.

C

Ahead and let him present, what do you have? Thank you.

D

Last episode, we talked about some changes to the site plan. So could you.

A

Just state your name for the record, I'm sorry yeah, I'm dan moriarty, I'm studio.

D

And architecture.

D

And if you can see okay, yeah, that's up on that screen as well. This is our site.

D

Plan and I'll go through a few of the changes we made from our last discussion.

D

Two weeks ago, one of the comments was for those who may be seeing for the.

D

First time we have a series of building types, we have a four-story multi-family.

D

Building a series of townhomes some cottages and then also some.

D

Single-Family homes over here to the to the north there, in what we call section.

D

A which is here some of the common comments from last week, we looked at the.

D

Street grid, we looked at the mix of the housing and we talked about some of the.

D

Materials and other design aspects of the project, so some of the things we've.

D

Looked at since since last time, we've moved kind of a pocket of cottages.

D

Down here and the kind of the east half of building be down here at the end of.

D

The day we ended up with the same number beds, 825 and 306 units and total on the.

D

Property there's a little bit distribution, there's a little bit of.

D

Difference in distribution, so our statistics at the side here are slightly.

D

Different than they were, maybe in some of the earlier materials you had seen.

D

Excuse me, mr. moriarty, can you make it fullscreen and a little bigger, so we can.

A

See it better up there and the smaller screens that were facing yeah. Let me see.

D

D

That's a little bit better. Then I've actually got each area broken down. So we.

D

Can look at each one, but this is that center drive. Of course, you'll see moving.

D

Through here and then, we've got area b area see here where the multi-family is.

D

And then area d we've changed the mix in that area a bit to respond to some of.

D

The comments about some diversity, gonna call it in the and the package of.

D

Buildings so you'll see: let's go to a little larger view here. Maybe that will.

D

Help these are awfully big files, so it takes just a second to come on.

D

This first section is the single-family home area, and the shaded area represents.

D

The green zone, if you know call it that or the set aside for the natural.

D

Landscape and then these are the single family, lots with the street system and.

D

Alleys that have been discussed, no change really to that to that area. It's.

D

Still catching up here, change.

D

Sorry for the delay here this is.

D

This is the pdf on my hard drive yeah. I think it's as hopefully, if it.

D

Does this once it'll go a little quicker in the next ones? This is the area that.

D

Is area d in the upper b, the south west corner of the site- and this is where we.

D

Made some redistribution of the units in terms of the anti monotony concern.

D

You'll see in the model, we've got a model to show you here in a second that.

D

We we changed up the mix a bit of the cottages within the streets here and.

D

Then we added in townhomes at the entrance here and here we previously had.

D

Them here already, we added a couple more here and then we added a row at the.

D

Across from the bigger building right here, so those used to be cottages.

D

They've been changed to townhomes and based on that, we have 43 townhomes in.

D

The neighbourhood 38 cottages for 139 d, ue, that's about 12 units per acre with.

D

In area d, here you can see is the parking as it lays out and so forth. I'll.

D

Go back one slide here to the area c: this is the multifamily section. This is.

D

Coming into view here, that's the 50 foot or a hundred foot. I'm sorry! Oh he's.

D

Meant it crosses the site there.

D

This is our multi-family building here in the corner on the interstate and then.

D

Here is the set-aside areas that, as we've talked about and then in area b,.

D

This area with the the most great chain or there's a lot of great change here,.

D

And there's some several wetlands, you see coming into view here so here we've.

D

We've added a little cell of cottages down here at the sure.

D

And then we've stepped the townhomes along the street there, as we discussed.

D

Last time so right there on that corner and then we added this little cell of.

D

Cottages here, so maybe the best way to look at all of this is first we'll.

D

Return to the renderings for just a second to give you a reminder of the.

D

Colors and kind of the massing of the multi-family building these this is the.

D

Ending where the the retail space is and then the clubhouse is in the center wing.

D

Then this is from that corner. Looking like the multi-family building would be.

D

On this side of the screen, then these are the townhomes at the intersection.

D

With the cottages down the street here.

D

Then I've got the a model to show you that more than anything is just to show.

D

You that I guess the amount of opportunity this is, this is kind of fun.

D

Part for us, as you can see, there's a tremendous amount of complexity to the.

D

Site in terms of grades, the green space we have to work with, etc, and we can move.

D

This around a little bit to show you that really each one of these buildings.

D

Becomes a design problem in itself, if you think about the grades and that the.

D

Site we're dealing with these are the grades that bynum fangio have worked out.

D

For the street, we don't have grading for the entire.

D

Site yet since that's such a critical element to this, but it's it's very- the.

D

Process takes all the time, then, with the two weeks we had we, we want to take the.

D

Street, which we knew, what that was, we kind of interpolated the rest of grades.

D

As best we could, and we started to put the cottages and townhomes, and these in.

D

Their locations so, as you can see, there's this kind of this zone at the.

D

Bottom of each each home see that right. There is area that we've got to figure.

D

Out as we design these homes how to work with that grade, to set the elevation of.

D

The house take advantage of the grade as it moves around the building and it's.

D

Just a process that it takes a lot of effort that we're anxious gets started.

D

On but until we know we have a project, that's approved, it's not one that you.

D

Can you can do quickly, but you can see here? This is a shot of the streetscape.

D

As you as you move down the main aisle or the main drive, here's a multi-family.

D

At the end down here, these are the cottages. You can see the amount of grade.

D

That it comes down the street there whoops. Let me do this, so that's that's a.

D

Shot just a section of the ground and.

D

It's trying to show you here just this one see like just like right in there.

D

See how much grade there is right there coming up that hill onto this parking.

D

Lot and then, when you come around to say these townhomes look, how much grade you.

D

Know there is to make up down through each of those lines represents a foot.

D

Essentially, so you can see how much grade there is to make up as we go.

D

Across there, so all this is to show you that it. This is a working process that.

D

We do the best we can to tell you exactly. What's going to happen on all.

D

These buildings, but I think therein lies the the nice part about the process- is.

D

We'll get to continue to work with eric on the layouts to work with eric on the.

D

Colors materials and make sure we follow the pud make sure we are consistent with.

D

What we've shown in the renderings, but it's an effort, that's going to take some.

D

Time to to get to the level of detail that you may be interested in, seeing so.

D

As you'll see each one one question last time, we're about porches and you'll see.

D

It each each cottage has its own porch in some cases, kind of a double porch and.

D

Then each townhome also has a small covered entry. You can kind of see on the.

D

Corner there there are also questions about the ends of the townhomes and.

D

Making sure that those were not just a blank wall, so we've we've want to make.

D

Sure that we're answering that concern as well so is there in particular view.

D

Or area that I can spend that you'd like to see committee members, do you.

A

Want to other requests one more about this. Can you show us an example of an.

E

Ally in this romick, one thing: that's missing from this: as cars like it's like.

E

No one lives there right now. I take it that these streets are parallel parking.

E

But show us an example of an alley in this section of the project in this.

D

Section we don't really have too much of an alley. I mean we've got a green space.

D

Between the cottages here, the both these roads are parallel or I'm sorry are yes,.

D

Or parallel parking, so there are two streets now where there was one with two.

E

Alleys you've made it into two streets. Basically, I.

D

Think right, I thought for that they had to I'll get you this real quick. No, no! I.

E

I get it now: okay, okay, yeah, so I guess my question would be more for the.

E

Townhome section: so if your when you, if I've missed that already, then there we.

D

Go the townhome section is probably the one that's one of the harder to write. I.

E

Just want to get a sense of what that looked like through, I mean I appreciate this 3d view very much. That's what I've been asking for it are there any other.

A

Questions regarding the images we've seen of area d before we move on. Okay, go.

A

Ahead so then we're moving to area b now the townhomes better. Now interspersed.

D

With cottages, yes, this is oh rosenberg. Do you have a question? I have.

F

One question those the streets we're looking at right now, the curve or the.

F

One farther back in the yes back there, where the curve is, would you consider.

F

Making that, like a right angle, turn instead of a curve just to slow the.

F

Traffic in that space, that's one for jeff it's! If, if we look at a site plan, I.

G

Think we shall have see that we are avoiding a wetland area by putting that.

G

Curve in there, if we've made a t-intersection we'd, be right now either.

G

In the edge or even in the middle of the well and now we're trying to preserve.

F

Okay, it has to do with the bridge. I guess: okay.

D

Then, if you're asking about alleys, the second going in a way and the townhomes.

D

This is straight in parking with access down between the townhomes. I guess.

D

That's about the only real kind of can we zoom in on that.

D

Halle area- and then these are, I guess, maybe more- of a single-family yeah over.

E

Here but if you can zoom in on the townhomes in that particular section.

E

So, where are the front doors and front doors are at the covered entry? Sir.

E

So, let's look at the other side of the building. These are. This is the back of.

E

Those buildings, yes, where are the front doors of the.

E

Buildings across the street from it they are here so is the back of the building.

E

The I don't have a name for these buildings. Other buildings on the left.

E

Side are they? What are they? You know, how are they going to interact with the.

E

Buildings across the street from them.

E

Are they gonna, I mean, are they going to be designed 360 or is? Is the the.

E

Building's facing the parking lot, I just don't quite get see if you're mayor from.

G

The last meeting this area be was a challenge to the preservation of the.

G

Wetlands, which is required, but in addition we went ahead and served the.

G

The area between the wetlands for flow ways, and because of that we had that we.

G

Were able to create a streetscape along the public road, where you see the.

G

Fronting and then we had the parking to the rear, and then we have the other row.

G

Of buildings that front on the park area, we really didn't have an opportunity to.

G

Create an alley system there, which I think matt had drawn up an idea.

G

Due to the preservation of some environmental features that we wanted to.

G

Maintain I appreciate that I think the specific thing I was going for was what.

E

Can we do to make both sides both sets of asphalt here? Look more like a street.

E

And less like a parking lot, the you know: if you've got this one building on the.

E

Right that it's fronting on the parking lot and the other building you know is.

E

Back is to the parking lot that doesn't. If it does it, doesn't it.

E

Sound inspiring exactly you know like if the. If the back of this left-hand.

E

Building also looked like the front that would help, I mean it seems pretty.

E

Promising from here, but that's all I'm getting at yeah right, the the one choice.

D

We have mr. jeff quickly is a choice, but one thing we haven't developed yet er.

D

Had time so you think about the first floor that townhome it's basically.

D

Living dining and kitchen area right, so it's an open plan across the back and.

D

Then the antennas to have outdoor area or patio there. In fact, one of these.

D

Would be a door that would come out now? Would it be a look like an entrance.

D

Probably not I mean we would probably keep. I think we want the streetscape to.

D

Have the prominent facade as far as entry exit? No, maybe not I mean there is.

D

An option where you can flip those: oh, no, I just pretty sure that they'll want to.

G

Keep the streetscape as you've shown, but the question I think steve's getting at.

G

Is can we put a an entry on the rear side of the building, so it looks like.

G

It's matching up to the building across the parking area. Yeah, I mean look. I you.

E

You seem to have done a good job in area d, with making a true streetscape you've.

E

Got parallel parking on it. You've got the houses closer to the street, and here.

E

I don't see why it has to be that different. Where are we now? I'm not sure.

E

What we're looking at this is the area you're talking about this area d, yeah.

D

This is yeah, I mean with the the absence of cars. The only thing that's.

E

Disappointing and this vid this view, but and compare it to area b, I'd like to see.

E

Something similar like, I wonder, is there parking on that curved road that council.

E

Boroughs embargo just talked about is there parking on the main street in.

E

Front of the townhomes on the main road there, like part, and you can spread the.

E

Parking out and create a streetscape at the same time, yeah is there parking on.

E

The road in front of this here yeah this is one of those that's a matter. It was a.

D

Matter of time, for us a little bit, there is parallel parking and believe on.

D

The road at that point correct so there's already parking at okay, so the.

E

Road you're pointing to is the one in front of ya: let's pull up, let's pull up.

D

The site plan again real quick here, I don't mean to pick two codes. So if we're.

E

Going to this right all right now, I don't believe that there was parallel.

B

Parking on that main street in front of the homes yeah is there any particular.

E

Objection to parallel parking, we remove the parking on the the public road in.

G

Front of the townhouses, because we're on an eight percent slope coming down that.

G

Hill, which, in some areas around bloomington, we have parallel parking on.

G

Eight percent slopes, but we thought it would be a might be a challenge for some.

G

People to get in and out of those I mean, if that's the reason you left it off.

E

Please put it back in first of all for most people on the road. If we're looking.

E

At this display here this handsome- I love this by the way this topological.

E

Display, according to this, the road in front of those townhomes, can we go back.

E

To that 3d view, if you're headed eastbound you're going uphill, which is.

E

Easier to park on than if you're going downhill, I think so.

E

It's less chance that your car will well. I don't know.

E

I mean parallel parking is a skill that I think people need to have, and people.

E

Who want parking are going to figure out how to parallel park? That should not be.

E

The reason why it's not on this street and if you can put it on this street.

E

That's that much fewer that might not much less 90-degree parking. You could.

E

Put in the back, and maybe you can create a something that approaching a street.

E

Scape between those two buildings, I don't see why you can't make these.

E

Buildings street fronts look more like area d, you're, really close, all right.

E

Right now I see a parking lot right and the idea of green space in the back. You.

E

Know is not as appealing as you know, porch space, that's close to history.

E

Right now, with cars parked 90 degrees, it's going to be a wall of cars between.

E

You and the street, I don't know, I'm just.

E

Looking for a way, I mean they, I see no reason why parallel park, it fail also.

E

Parallel parking on any street and this project will slow traffic down, which is.

E

What we won, so, if you can't make that curve a right angle, you can put parking.

E

On it that will slow traffic down, if it, if it physically can work for jeff. We.

D

Can eliminate some of the violence, but you know I'm looking to reduce as much.

E

Of the 90-degree parking as possible in favor of parallel parking, if you can.

E

Spread it out, you might be able to get all the parking that you believe that.

E

You need, if we add, parallel parking to the public road frontage. There could be.

G

A reduction in the parking lot: it's not going to eliminate all of it, but it.

G

Could be a significant reduction? That's what I'm looking for! Okay! Thank you like.

D

It sure it goes without saying, but the reason we left the this black and white.

D

Was we didn't? We haven't gone in and rendered each house and thought about.

D

The colors for each house but understand the intent would be to, of course make it.

D

And I just want to say I'm very appreciative that you've built this.

E

Model at all and every developer should be doing this and it's better than.

E

Nothing and I I have enough detail here, I would like to see the cars, because.

E

It's an illusion to pretend that there aren't going to be cars everywhere here.

E

And we've been nice to see them nice. Having said that, you've heard my concern.

E

Okay, councilmember rosa martyr, thanks, sorry,.

F

I'm confused about this. So on these homes you enter through the front right.

F

Now there aren't, there will be doors on the back well, the plan of the townhome.

D

Is the first floor here? Has that living room, kitchen and dining right so usually.

D

We have a entrance on one side and then a patio or something in the back. You.

D

Know an outdoor area, weapon kitchen, okay, so mostly well, there's no parking out.

F

Front so right, so you would be parking in the back and go in the back door and unless we can figure out a way to add the parallel.

G

Taking steve's, I'm suggestion we'll have parking it for as well: okay, okay, thanks.

D

So we'll have parking along here and then on. The second third floor are the.

D

Bedrooms so um I have a question on this view here. What is the little narrow.

A

Drive that pokes out to the left this guy right here yeah. um I think that was.

D

An alley: that's access, there's three single family lots for the city. There.

G

And, rather than have driveways on that main road would provide an alley, so they.

G

Could put garages in the rear and park off the allen? Just like these alleys.

D

Over here would access the garages conceivably. That's what this war for.

D

Those three lives are those three lots part of area, a.

A

Uh-Huh yeah that's going to the city.

A

Council, mayor flaherty I'll echo some of those points and have.

H

A question I did: it's helped me to articulate what is is sort of.

H

Challenging about this area- and I know you're, dealing with topographical.

H

Constraints here it may be think of an area in the southwest side of town, a pud.

H

I think it's called blackwell homes. That's what google maps is telling me it's off of just north of tap and it's kind of a series of there might be.

H

Attached homes on a set of small streets and it's the same thing you're going to.

H

Run into here, where its backs facing fronts, and it's it's a like it, just a.

H

Not a very public space, pedestrian around friendly kind of environment to.

H

Have like your front porch facing somebody's garage, which I know the.

H

Garage is in the case here so maybe would be a little better, but I do wonder if it's not possible to part of its the parking that you've got. 90-Degree people.

H

In parking in front, that makes it much more like a parking lot than a street, and I wonder if having alleys, you know, small alleys, behind that behind the.

H

Units for parking instead in combination with the parallel parking would be.

H

Possible and make this more of a street a streetscape kind of feel, which I think.

H

Is what all of us are kind of interested in and trying to articulate deep what.

H

Constraints, do you feel like there are in the context of trying to put some.

H

Parking behind the buildings and converting to all parallel parking in.

H

Front you can still have a back front problem in one case, but what should I.

G

See it could you turn that view about 90 degrees? There that's good right through.

G

It doesn't show up very well here, but where you see the townhomes on the left.

G

To the left of the hand there that area back there is going to be a natural area.

G

It's not going to be disturbed and it's going to be natural. It's going to look.

G

Like a wetland park, north and south of that building is a wetland and then.

G

Conditions between the two will be a natural area that will be a very.

G

Pleasant thing for those townhomes to have the back patio out.

G

We're looking so it's not like they're going to be in a sea of the parking lot.

G

Yeah, but if we put an alley back, there got rid of the parking in front just had.

G

On a street in front you're going to have asphalt behind those buildings up.

G

Against the wetland in the ephemeral stream and what we tried to do is.

G

Protect that ephemeral stream that connects the two islands and move the.

G

Buildings off of that, and then you provide the parking in front in between.

G

The two rows of buildings, and if you get your most efficient parking out of.

G

Having an isle and parking on both sides, and if we we put an alley behind that.

G

Building we're just really adding asphalt and impervious surface area and.

G

Create a barrier between the rear of those homes and the ephemeral streams do.

D

You think the layout and it's kind of what we discussed last two weeks ago.

G

About the constraints of this area, mm-hmm.

G

Do you think right trying to preserve those those environmentally sensitive.

G

Areas the best we could do, you think, and also take advantage of them for the.

G

Views of the individual units do you think you can put parallel parking along.

D

Here, physically, I don't know if I'll have enough parking, that's the other.

G

Thing this, I was just gonna, say there's about 50 spaces here yeah, but I mean, if.

D

We got you know, what can we do both sides? I don't know both sides. My.

A

Destination, I'm sorry we're losing some of what you're saying because of the.

A

Mumbling, like this yeah, well, the number of parking at parallel parking spaces.

G

We're going to get out front, I think we're going to get between 15 and 20.

G

Spaces and we have about 50 in that parking area behind. So when we stand by.

A

15 to 20, we could do that. My client, but parallel through here as well.

D

I were gonna lose too much fucking doing that I've been here, I jeff knable.

I

Tryna toss ventures: it is it so I think I understand the comments here that.

I

We're receiving, I think they make sense, and I'm wondering is there a way that we.

I

Can work with eric and staff to figure this out to study this a little bit.

I

Better, so that we're not kind of fumbling through on our side here to.

I

Work we all know, we've got to provide parking to the residents. I think you.

I

Recognize that and we will but certainly appreciate the comment on the.

I

Streetscape, you know improvements and trying to add additional parallel.

I

Parking along the main street, I'm I'm wondering about the grade situation, so I.

I

If possible, we'd love to take it offline work with staff on how to improve this.

I

Situation, yes, I think what we had in mind was perhaps early next week to.

A

Develop another reasonable condition if it proves feasible to do what what we.

A

Would like to see so we don't have to make the sausage to be honest. Okay, yeah.

A

Yes, councilmember fallin yeah, I mean just to add to that about the question I.

E

Was gonna ask was, is there any street like part of this any of this entire.

E

Project where you would have a problem with parallel parking like what, if we.

E

Were the goal is not to get rid of parking so much as the 90 degree parking.

E

But the parallel parking works as a traffic, calmer mm-hmm, and so that's a.

E

That's a boon to everybody so like is there any particular street in the.

E

Project where you consider parallel parking to be off-limits, I can think of.

I

One area was the electrical easement that we were and that's the yeah I grant.

E

You that okay, okay yeah other than that, like anything, that's street like like, because basically the the air between the two.

E

Sets of townhomes is a parking lot, not a street, and if you can make it look more.

E

Like a street- and you can use the parking in front of that main.

E

On that main road put parking on that road on both sides of it, you get the.

E

Parking account that you're looking for which we've already found to be pretty reasonable and you make it more of a streetscape yeah, so yeah. If you can make.

E

That happen between now next week, more power to you- and you know, like I.

E

Certainly endorse that very strongly. Thank you, councilmember clarity, one more.

H

Question of clarification related to this, not to belabor the point too much.

H

But the westernmost part of that parcel on the top there's I don't know 14 or 15.

H

Buildings there and it looks like 11 or 12 spaces kind of near it.

H

What what did the petitioner anticipate for for those residents in terms of in.

H

Terms of parking yeah, that's clearly parking challenged as designed today. Our.

I

Thought is the pathway that traverses to the south and west.

I

Would serve to bring people from their parking into their resident location.

I

Unfortunately, there is not a lot of parking kind of immediately adjacent, but.

I

That was just a limitation for that particular location and property.

I

Management challenge for us I think councilmember fallin in that section.

E

That councillor flaherty refers to, would you consider a loading zone like put a.

E

Couple of spaces: that's just for people to load and unload large things. I would.

I

Have no reason to object to that that might make it more appealing to the.

E

People living there is that they, at least they know they could load stuff.

J

Thank you. All right does petitioner have other new.

A

Information to share with us or shall we go into general questions general.

D

Questions, okay, all right, so we did get some questions answered via email.

A

Earlier this week, are there any questions that committee members would.

A

Like to highlight for the public, or would like to ask.

A

Aneue tonight councilmember flaherty um a question as well. First for the chair.

H

Which is how do we want to handle a reasonable conditions that are drafted.

H

Well, they will be discussed those later with petitioner, and this is just for.

H

Initial questions, yes, I would ask that you keep the questions general and then.

A

We will go over the you know, maybe in well I'd like to go to the public and.

A

Then we will do the reasonable conditions. Okay,.

H

Great I'll start with question and I had sent an email kind of just trying to.

H

Unpack and understand petitioners thinking around solar energy and you.

H

Know what meleave them there's a commitment to do a number of parking.

H

Spaces electric vehicle parking spaces and possibly pursue some solar on the.

H

The main building and, of course, on the earths, are them the large multifamily.

H

Building to power common areas and I'm just trying to work my head around like.

H

What the challenges for for the petitioner and developers in this.

H

Context and the sort of obvious answer is split incentive issue you're, not.

H

Paying the utility bills, so so you don't have it have a way to recoup a return on.

H

Investment, if you invest in solar energy, for the roofs of town, homes, duplexes, etc,.

H

And you answered the question via email. Come up to that extent, saying that you.

H

Prefer not to bundle utilities with with rent. I guess I'm just yeah. I wanted to.

H

Ask for an in person kind of explanation of that, and is it something you'd ever.

H

Consider I'm not honestly that worried about it in the context of this project.

H

And it's a big change to be asking at this point: I'm not really trying to do.

H

That I'm just trying to understand better and think about it and maybe have follow-up both with with trina cos, as well as with alex crowley from esd to.

H

Think about future projects and and how we could do this, because it is the fact.

H

That in 2020, it's actually economical to put up solar panels. If this was just.

H

Your building you were covering all the utilities, would save you money versus.

H

Having them just connected to duke energy service, so when it makes economic.

H

Sense to do it and in the context of the climate crisis, this planet is facing.

H

There's a way we can, we can figure this out for large-scale multi-family.

H

Projects at some point in the future. So if you could speak to that a little bit.

H

And what your reticence is around bundling utilities and and maybe other.

H

Issues related to that that I haven't touched on sure. No. I certainly.

I

Appreciate the question, and by no means am I a solar expert, but the question was.

I

Taken seriously by us, we, you know, went to work and did our research. We.

I

Critically thought about these things and I did have an interesting.

I

Conversation with our ceo this morning- and he made the point to me- which I.

I

Think is interesting that solar works best where the owner is the user of the.

I

Electricity- and it goes to the point that you were just making it- you know.

I

It's very difficult to justify the upfront expense when you're, not the one.

I

You know incentivize to reduce the cost and paying that electrical bill. He made.

I

A fascinating argument for a potential change at the municipal level and that.

I

Was what if a market rule was imposed in municipalities where all multifamily.

I

Landlords were required to pay the electric bill so immediately. Almost.

I

Overnight he argues the owners, the landlord's become incentivized to find.

I

Ways to save energy right now. The downside, of course, is you.

I

Have residents who now they are no longer incentivized and perhaps when.

I

They leave their units, the lights stay on and the tv's on, because the dogs.

I

Still home and you know, they're draining energy when, because they're just not.

I

Responsible for it, but it's an interesting idea. I wanted to share that.

I

Conversation I had with his name is warren, our ceo, because he is thinking.

I

About these things, we get these questions. We we are challenged by this.

I

In other municipalities- and so I think it's a it's a it's a healthy and it's.

I

Time to have the conversation with respect to this project, I tried to.

I

Outline our response, it's you know it's a fact were structured to allow the.

I

Tenants to pay direct, we, the energy bills, to duke energy, for.

I

Example, that's not coming through our management operations, and so when you.

I

Look at an expense like eight and a half million dollars to put solar panels on.

I

All townhomes and cottages out here it's really difficult to justify that. Well,.

I

Makes no sense at all unless you're paying the bills, so thank you for your.

H

Input on that yeah, I'd like to tag on to that there was in your email response.

A

You talked about having enough solar on the multifamily building to to power the.

A

Common areas- and it wasn't clear to me whether you thought this was financially.

A

Feasible to do or whether you were saying well, some people do this, but.

A

We're not gonna do it. So could you speak to that please? I did mention that we did.

I

Study that I heard- and I spoke about that- I believe two weeks ago, as.

I

Something we look at and learn more about. It is similar to the cdg project.

I

That was recently approved how they were going to power, the common areas and.

I

Maybe some parking structure lights through solar, so I think, although that's.

I

Not part of our proposal today, it is something that we now understand. We can.

I

Kind of see it black and white what that means to our project with respect to.

I

Cost, etc, and, and so that's kind of a roundabout way of saying, that's.

I

Something we would consider for this project.

I

Yes, all right, that's good, tentative, but good. Other questions.

A

General questions before we go to the public.

A

All right, let's go to the public and we do have three reasonable conditions that.

A

I just like to very briefly review so that if you have questions about those.

A

You could hold those until we get to them. The first one is about the contract.

A

With bloomington transit, the second one is about what we've already seen.

A

Actually that the the townhome is on the main drive in section b will be oriented.

A

To the street and then the last one is about having 12 solar powered electric.

A

Vehicle charging stations instead of eight. So if your comments are on those.

A

Things, let's wait, but a general comments, please, if you have any come to the.

A

Microphone and state your name, and you know how many people would like to.

A

Comment tonight, just two: okay you'll have up to five minutes: hi, I'm sharon.

K

Rule a an officer in crescent ben neighborhood association, carrie, winkle.

K

Talked last week and brought up the idea of traffic at crescent avenue at at.

K

Crescent road there and we really feel that the what the traffic engineer did.

K

Not look as closely at it as he should have been. I was kind of hoping that.

K

Today we would get some more information about projected traffic patterns in that.

K

Area we are, we like the idea of having yet a second roundabout up there by the.

K

Crescent road in 7th west 17th, so that would be something that we'd ask of the.

K

City to consider that and to study that the second thing that I would like to.

K

Bring up is with the city also, and it's kind of like not it's kind of related to.

K

This and kind of not but the owner of the land up there that's being sold.

K

I think his rogers group- I'm not you, know, he's super. I think that rogers owns.

K

That and they also own the little green space that spire roundabout at monroe.

K

And 17th, and we would like to have that in the future set aside as a green space.

K

The little triangle of grass that is near the at the point where arlington.

K

Road and 17 west 17th come together and I guess that's not going to be a.

K

Condition or anything to do with this particular project, but I I do know that.

K

They do own both properties and I hope that the future doesn't hold like a.

K

Wendy's or a burger king, or something that would be in stuck in that little.

K

Patch of land there. So if you could make note of that piece of property and.

K

Perhaps bring it up with them or make a plan about that, and so the third point.

K

That we have questions about is what it's going to be like with the city.

K

Being in the real estate business here with our your free properties that you.

K

Get for affordable housing, and we really, you know like the idea of the workforce.

K

Workforce housing, but when you start thinking about it, it just seems like.

K

It's new territory that hasn't really been thought out how it's going to fit.

K

Into this, the houses are going to fit into the plan for the building complex.

K

Will there be duplexes, will there be tri triplexes once someone are you gonna.

K

Sell them, sell the property and then keep the money. What do you are you going.

K

To build all the homes simultaneously, will they all be the same kind of things.

K

Like a habitat community or well like somebody comes along and says well, I'd.

K

Like to build a log cabin on mine or I'd like to buy it build a triplex on on.

K

This lot are they going to have any uniformity or.

K

Are they going to fit in with the rest of the complex we wrote, we wrote our.

K

Letter or questions that are specific ahead of time, and I understand you.

K

Answered the questions about: will the city commit to only workforce housing on.

K

The 10 acres that will be gifted to the city. If there is no commitment, could the.

K

Homes be transitioned to habitat homes or section 8 housing in the future.

K

Will the homes be built simultaneously, will the owners be able to make some.

K

Choices like colors and floor plans, or will this be decided by hand or the city.

K

And will the houses all look alike or there will be variations.

K

How will the homes be marketed? Will the owners be responsible for the upkeep of.

K

Their own property, or are they going to be, is the complex going to be part of.

K

That and will hand have the authority to enforce violations. So I don't know if.

K

You you all have thought about. You know these questions and how this is going to.

K

Shake down because there will be the initial selling of the properties to.

K

People who are our first home, first-time homebuyers and then and then what.

K

Happens, you know on down the road, what can we expect to see there 30 years from.

K

Now or how is that going to work in our neighborhood? Okay,.

A

Thank you for your comments, we'll try to address that afterwards. Thank you. Any.

A

Other public comments remember to state your name for the record, please for the.

L

Record, my name is kevin tracy, my wife rosemary tracy, and I have a home at 1504.

L

West 17th street, we live immediately to the the east of the winkles. We have been.

L

Active members of the crescent bed, neighborhood association in general.

L

We've been very well more than interested concerned about the integrity.

L

In the upkeep of the neighborhood, one of the things I'm very concerned about is.

L

This, the the increased density in the population, there's an awful lot of units.

L

That are that I'm sure will be built. One of the things that I that I would like.

L

To be do to address is- and I have addressed this before and other.

L

Occasions that the primary entrances to the development that be located off of.

L

Arlington drive rather than west 17th street. There will already be a lot of.

L

Traffic once that of what 17th street has finally opened up, there is a lot of.

L

Traffic prior to the widening of the street, it affects the the desirability.

L

Of the neighborhood there certainly is research that shows when there is a.

L

Concentration of properties and most definitely a concentration of.

L

Of affordable housing in an area that I can affect the property value and then.

L

They have neighborhood, and perhaps the crime rate to crime rate is is.

L

Definitely an issue that we've been very concerned about along those lines. I.

L

Haven't heard anything about whether or not there will be any sidewalks that.

L

Would go that would would would go from the development area out to was 17th.

L

Street that connect up with the multi-use path we have all of the we.

L

Have experienced people walking across our back pastures? Are our properties.

L

Extend almost to to arlington road, so people, whoever they may be, have often.

L

Walked across our back pasture and which is a safety risk, though it's my concern.

L

That people have certainly if they don't have automobiles, that they have good.

L

Access to them, the nice multi-use path that is to be opened up, so my mentor.

L

Said in that, and also I didn't see anything in the design about.

L

Streetlights, what a lot of talk about parking if people are doing parallel.

L

Parking, I hope that that there will be streetlights, which also streetlights as a safety issue too, and I think that that would.

L

That would affect the desirability for people living there in general. I am very.

L

Very concerned about you know, will everything look nice and kind of tagging.

L

Along to comments sheeran already made, you know that is there any guarantee.

L

That the that the properties would not eventually be this could be reassigned.

L

Re-Designated as as a as affordable housing, and so I guess we.

L

Hope that the just the integrity of the up treat the maintenance, the.

L

Desirability of the property will will be at high level so that the rest of our.

L

Neighborhood looks good if we want to sell our sell our property at some point.

L

That it's important, that it looks good and and the crime rate to its that'll, be.

L

An important consideration, I think, that's pretty much what I'm interested.

L

In that, probably you know that the main thing is in summary, that I really want.

L

To stress you know, quiet you know very strongly is just to request that the.

L

Primary entrances for this new development be off of arlington drive.

L

Rather than the west 17th street as it as had to be a very high, dense traffic.

L

Area where there was already the conversation about putting in another.

L

Roundabout at the east end just just before the flyover. It's an awful lot of.

L

Traffic, it affects us in the neighborhood, we don't have a lot of.

L

Choice on on what goes on in the neighborhood, so this is our opportunity.

L

To say, please consider those of us that have been living there. We pay the.

L

Property taxes. We are long-term residents, it's our city too, so thank you.

L

Thank you any other public comments. Okay. Well, let's go back to the committee and.

A

Let's see if there's any follow-up questions, maybe in reaction to the.

A

Public comments before we go to our reasonable conditions: council, member.

F

Rosenberg, yes from the public comments, I would like to ask about the streetlights.

I

Yes, we do plan to install streetlights, yes, and we do have strict requirements.

A

About street lights in our you do that all developers need to follow. I want to.

A

Ask mr. garlic to speak a little bit more about the traffic and what I know.

A

Our traffic engineer isn't here tonight, but in the course of the staff review.

A

And plan commission hearings and such what was the the staff opinion of.

A

Traffic impacts here, as we discussed last time, the petitioners submitted a.

B

Traffic study that analyzes the amount of increase in vehicular trips that.

B

Would be going to and from the site that traffic study called out for the.

B

Possibility of a turning lane being necessitated along 17th street, you know.

B

We mentioned that we would look into that a little bit further at the final.

B

Planned stage we had concerns about the addition of a turning lane along 17th.

B

Street, because that would widen the corridor, possibly impacting sidewalks.

B

Along that area, as long as retaining walls, so we were going to continue to.

B

Look at that a little bit in terms of connectivity for this property to 17th.

B

Street and arlington something that we have dealt with time and time again in.

B

Planning cases is a lack of connectivity, something that has happened on numerous.

B

Projects in the past, and so our comprehensive plan encourages.

B

Connectivity as much as possible emergency services, they want.

B

Connectivity as much as possible, more than one way in and out of the property.

B

So there is a public right of way along 17th street and a property that they.

B

Required along arlington to disperse that traffic disbursement along there, so.

B

We're fairly happy with the amount of connectivity that is shown here.

B

In fact, we would actually almost probably prefer a little bit more.

B

Connectivity if it was possible arlington, however, a lot of those.

B

Properties are privately owned. You know, there's no vacant right-of-way there to.

B

Connect to to stub to so the petitioners have, you know, just kind of really worked.

B

With the limited resources that they have available to increase the.

B

Connectivity from this site to the adjacent roads does that kind of help.

B

Answer most of those questions um I wanted to just follow up on the sidewalk.

A

Connectivity so connectivity for me: yes, so so both of the connections on 17th.

B

Street would have sidewalk and a side path, so the westernmost entrance to this.

B

Development would have a sidewalk on the west side, a side path on the east side.

B

Of that drive, so both of those would connect to the side path on 17th, the.

B

Easternmost connection for this would have a sidewalk and that we cannot go.

B

All the way to 17th as well as well as the connection to arlington, would have a.

B

Sidewalk along that as well, so we've got vehicular and pedestrian connections to.

B

Both of the adjacent street furnishes. Thank you, councilmember fallin. Can you.

E

Speak a little bit to the city's track record and the development of.

E

Neighborhoods, I'm thinking of evergreen village as an example. That's something.

E

That the city initiated, isn't it yes, that is, that is pretty much the one and.

B

Only city initiated project where we have purchased land constructed houses.

B

And then sold those houses, I mean it went well, didn't it. I. I think I would.

B

Say so, yes, I mean there was a high demand for all of those they sold pretty.

B

Fast- and that was a great project, how many units did that reflect? It wasn't.

B

Much maybe a full 10 or 12 dozen yeah okay. So, but I understand is that we may.

E

Not handle this larger parcel the same way that we might have more than will.

E

Master planet-like: is there any thoughts right now and is it planning or hand.

E

That's involved discussion of what that property might.

E

Be so so that would probably be more of a hand, esd and administration level.

B

Decision of how those lost want to be developed, the petitioners have arranged.

B

A district ordinance to give us a greatest amount of flexibility there. You.

B

Know certainly we're not really in the business of being long-term landlords, so.

B

But I don't, I just don't think that we've really fleshed out exact details.

B

To govern how we're gonna handle that got it. Thank you. Mr. crowley, can you add.

A

Any details as to how the city will, if I had seen it, was well handled the person.

M

I stood up just in case I needed to alex crowley director of economic, sustainable.

M

Development eric's right that there's still some planning to be done, but I.

M

Think, given the scale of this, some of the current thinking is that number one.

M

You know addressing some of the questions so I'll try to go through some.

M

Of these, we would probably consider a mix of types of housing, so not just.

M

Single-Family could have some duplexes and things in there, so so we're trying.

M

To figure that out that we would probably go down a path of doing, and you.

M

Know some sort of rf request for information or proposal from developers.

M

To see what kind of ideas might come back from that process to help us think.

M

Through the development of the lots, we would not own the lots permanently. These.

M

Would be designed to be owned, purchased and owned, so owner-occupied, which is.

M

Which is something relatively new and we do a lot of things in the rental market.

M

But but going into the owned and occupied market is something that we.

M

Have an interest in there's a deficiency of that, as we know, especially at the.

M

Price points that we're hoping to get to, which is which is in the more of the.

M

Workforce so, and so we're thinking something below the 250,000 range. Maybe.

M

Down even below the 200,000 range land value is, of course, one of the key.

M

Drivers of what the ultimate cost of the sale of a house is. So if we can.

M

Neutralize that then, then the house itself can sell for.

M

Less and that's one of the values of this offer, but to address some of the.

E

Concerns that crescent ben had about the disposition of that area of this project.

E

I mean it's seems safe to me to say that these will be houses, that the city is.

E

Simply sort of enabling, but I mean we're not really getting into the rental.

E

Business they'll be treated like any other neighborhood people who buy those.

E

Houses will own them like anybody else owns a house in bloomington yeah. That's.

M

Right so basically our we would be involved in that rent, the upfront transaction. So so you know working through the process of getting all of.

M

This set up I'll, you know the infrastructure and setup and all that.

M

And then we would, we would probably end up doing some sort of covenant or deed.

M

Restriction on the lots themselves as a way to ensure long-term affordability, so.

M

So that's you know, so the first transaction is not the only affordable.

M

Transaction that happened and that's the limit, so in other words, the owners will.

E

Be responsible for keeping up their own property and will enforce violations as.

E

With any other house, that's right so from from the point at which the house.

M

Is sold its treated like any other house got it. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any.

A

Other follow-up questions before we go to the reasonable conditions: traffic.

F

Study, you said the the projected increase in car trips probably doesn't.

F

Warrant a turn lane, do you have a number for that increase? You mean you know.

B

There's five thousand average trips now and with this it would be seven thousand.

B

Mm-Hmm, I think it's in their traffic study, where they've got that information.

B

You know they, there are traffic engineers here they could probably.

B

Testify exactly to what their traffic study shows in terms of numbers. I am not.

B

The best one to translate some of that. I a drienne, read with a tech engineering.

N

Group bear with me a minute, well find what you need the report. I don't.

N

Think it's gonna. It doesn't really listen overall volume. It would just be.

N

An increase or in the peak hours, so the site, it's. The interesting thing is the.

N

Site itself doesn't really add that much traffic to what is already projected to.

N

Be on 17th street or arlington road, and so it's it's sort of negligible. The.

N

Traffic coming in and out of the site compared to the traffic that is already.

N

On the existing streets in their traffic city, they list average daily trips, 417.

B

At 11:00, 11,000 and arlington is closer to 15, and so the level of service delays.

N

I think are d yeah, it impacts only the site, so the delay, basically the.

N

Developer is accepting the delay and back up on their site as people wait to.

N

Access 17th street or arlington road, so it doesn't really affect through traffic.

N

That much unless you have left turner's, which leads to the recommendation to add.

N

Left turn lanes on 17th street.

A

um Actually can I'd follow up on that? I don't really understand how adding.

A

Several hundred residents will not impact the traffic here. It will. It will.

B

Impact traffic certainly will add trips. The amount of people on to 17th street.

B

What adrienne is saying, though, is there's not going to be a delay? You know.

B

Most of the people that are coming into here are coming from the east for the most part, not from the west, so you're dealing with right turns in so.

B

When there are delays, there are people that are trying to exit from this site.

B

On to 17th street, so the backup is people waiting it from this development.

B

Out on the 17th street, so those delays are just backing up onto.

B

The site, it's not backing up traffic on 17th street per se, traffic is just.

B

Backing up within this site itself and then on arlington, when people try to.

A

Turn left from arlington into the development that cause. Oh, so that's one.

B

Of the other things that their traffic study has suggested is, there might be a.

B

Need for a passing blister or something on arlington and that's something that.

B

Were will continue to look at and make a decision on at the final planned stage.

B

Yeah, it would just be a passing blisters to allow for cars to you know. Obviously,.

B

Pass somebody who's waiting to turn in here. I'm surprised, arlington has more.

A

Traffic than 17th course 17th of this has had endless constructions, yeah and.

B

That certainly might change you know at 17th street now serves as a function to.

B

Cross 69 and get to the west side, whereas before it was really more of a.

B

Local street, but those numbers are recent 2018, I think, is what those.

B

Numbers are based on. It's been, it's been challenging to do counts because the.

N

Road has been open and closed three times. No, so you can't get an accurate.

N

Count, and so the the 2018 number is generated from a 2015 number. I think.

N

With a small growth rate, all right, but what I'm hearing is there.

A

May be delays but they'll be for people who are coming out of the development or.

A

Going into the development and not for people who are passing by correct, I got.

E

A question councilmember valen: you had another.

A

Question is it reasonable to assume that some people trying to access this.

E

Development may decide to enter on 17th, but exit in arlington, because both times.

E

That their right turns and that that will sort of mitigate some of the the.

E

Biggest concerns about traffic piling up, at least on arlington. I mean a blister.

E

Also would help, but is it reasonable to assume that there'll be right-hand, turns.

E

Yeah, absolutely as people are using the site, if they're discovering that at.

B

Certain peak times they're having great difficulty getting out on 17th or so.

B

They're gonna go out to arlington where it's just right out and you can get out a lot faster. Thank you all right. Any other final questions from the committee.

A

Work we're just having questions from the committee at this point. I just like.

K

To comment on the traffic study that adrian said that it was hard to collect.

K

Information from 2015 because our road has been closed, but I think that even.

K

Though we don't have a study, we all live there and we're telling you you better.

K

Take a look at that that intersection, because that bridge people come like.

K

Barreling off of the new bridge- and there is also another housing project.

K

The union at crescent, I believe, it's called, which is a high density, complex.

K

That's been built down there on crescent road, so you know, I don't have statistics.

K

And data, but I do live there and we all do and we're just saying all right so.

K

Your minute, hey you're, just saying, got all right. Well, let's go ahead with the.

A

Reasonable conditions, then we have a three and they're numbered three four.

A

And five you're not missing anything, they were just. They were like six ideas.

A

And some of them fell by the wayside. They were all numbered before they.

A

Became reasonable conditions, so we have three but they're. There numbers are a.

A

Little odd mr. flaherty did you want to start number three regards the proposed.

H

Transit route that's been negotiated and discussed in connection with fluent in.

H

Transit and I see we have loom a had a.

H

Bloomington transit with us here tonight. If anyone had questions for him, but in.

H

Short, it is trying to memorialize what has been discussed already with a few.

H

Minor changes, I think, based on last week's discussion, the committee members.

H

Were were somewhat concerned about the the short period of service on the.

H

Weekends, so I wanted mr. may to price out a slightly longer period on.

H

Saturdays and sundays, 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. the previous pricing. We had looked.

H

At was 10:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. that increased annual cost from about three.

H

Hundred and thirty eight thousand to three hundred and fifty eight thousand and that amount is reflected in item or bullet number. Two of the proposed.

H

Reasonable condition so again that service would be a new proposed route.

H

Ten, which would be a 40-minute frequency, three hundred and sixty days of service.

H

Per year, hours of operation would be seven to ten monday through friday in 10.

H

A.M. to 6 p.m. saturday and sunday and the rest of it was sort of following up.

H

On email, conversation with mr. main to understand precisely how this will be.

H

Negotiated an ongoing basis and and thank you all so much surgery look from.

H

Your comments last week to explain that as long as the district ordinance is in.

H

Effect, this requirement will run with the ordinance and it will be subject to.

H

A renegotiation every three years final point is that, in line with the sessions.

H

For two weeks ago, the route may change over time. If you mention transit, has.

H

Different funding decides there was a different route, need a different frequency that change, but the commitment or the level.

H

Of commitment from from a petitioner would be the same in terms of a funding.

H

Level, so that is indexed to inflation, 3% for the at least for the initial two.

H

Years so I think that covers the details of the reasonable condition. This is a.

H

Slight change from what we discussed two weeks ago, even though we had expressed some concerns about saturday's on the operation, so I'll be interested to hear.

H

From petitioner, what they think about it, and I could answer any questions if.

H

There are any as well from committee. Thank you.

A

Are there any questions before we go to the petitioner okay? Well then, let's hear.

A

From the petitioner, what their feedback is on, this proposed reasonable condition.

A

And I hope you have the most recent text. I do very good. I have to pack it here so.

I

I'm looking at reasonable condition 3 on staff memo page 2, is that correct, mm-hmm.

I

Okay, so reactions to that are twofold one. I understand the increase in weekend.

I

Timing from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. was stretched from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. that.

I

Drove some additional cost. I think I don't have any questions there. I I do.

I

Need to discuss that internally, I understand that's the reasonable.

I

Condition so it represents about a $20,000 a year increase in in cost and.

I

So I just I need to be able to speak with that with our folks internally.

I

About that change, that's one! Secondly, relates to kind of.

I

What we discussed last time with respect to perpetuity, I understand that this.

I

Condition will run with the district ordinance. I get that I my concern is.

I

This number one: what if bt were to default in providing their service? What.

I

If there level of service was for some reason,.

I

Reduced or diminished, we pride ourselves on our level of customer service and.

I

Since a place and two for our residents- and so we wouldn't want our residents to.

I

Suffer if bt had an interruption of service for whatever reason and not.

I

Suggesting they would, but if they did in fact, had a reduced service in the future.

I

I think we would want to be sure we had the ability to get out of that.

I

Arrangement and provide for our own arrangement that did not interrupt our.

I

Level service, so I wanna I'm sure that comes in the details of the actual.

I

Agreement between trinity oz and bloomington transit, but I do want to make that known kind of go on the record as that. That is something we will be.

I

Looking for, secondly, I know a lot can change in the future. We could all be.

I

Writing in autonomous vehicles in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, they may no.

I

Longer sell oil and gas in 10 15 20 years, it's hard to say, there's a lot of.

I

Reasons why bus service might go away in general or no longer be the optimal way.

I

To get residents to and from a city and in that situation I would want to be.

I

Removed from the commitment of writing an annual check to a service that no.

I

Longer existed, so these are the things we're thinking through, as we hear in.

I

Perpetuity and running with the ordinance and thank you.

A

So um let me just make sure I understand the concern about you know in perpetuity.

A

Or for a long long time, commitment in the current district ordinance do you.

A

Not make a long-term commitment to funding transit, I was just trying to.

A

Find the particular paragraph yeah, I think what we exchanged information at.

I

One point was an initial three-year term with annual renewals thereafter and then.

I

The discussion two weeks ago went into a more longer.

I

Term scenario, and again we're generally in agreement with that concept. As long.

I

As we write into the agreement, you know in certain events, if those certain.

I

Events occur, turn itas is, you know not held to that arrangement. If those events.

I

Were to occur, but that's my point all right. Other questions for the.

A

Petitioner about this reasonable condition or for the sponsor, you have a.

E

Question for lou mae all right, mr. mee, thank you for being here. I just like him.

E

To respond to the proposal and the comments from the petitioner loom a.

O

General manager, bloomington transit, it's hard for me to envision a scenario where.

O

Bloomington transit would default on the agreement, so I mean obviously that would.

O

Be a concern of ours and secondly, as I try to envision what the future is going.

O

To look like in terms of transportation, again, it's hard for me to envision a.

O

Scenario where you don't have mass transit in some form, it may be.

O

Autonomous vehicles, if you know it's hard to predict what form it will take.

O

But and it's hard to imagine not having automobiles and in some form.

O

In the future for the life of this development, so so those would be my.

O

Concerns in response to what the petitioner said. Thank you. Mr. flirty.

A

Maybe a question for staff at mr. ehrlich if, if, if in the future,.

H

Situations change so, materially that you know, bloomington transit didn't exist.

H

Anymore or wasn't, you know, wasn't providing the type of service we imagine.

H

Today, as transit that that strikes me isn't like what would happen? Is the city.

H

Council would would look at the district ordinance and change the petitioner if.

H

They are still, the owner of the property, would bring a change to the district.

H

Ordinance is that something that's ever been done in the context of unexpected.

H

Change circumstances that are so material in nature. They necessitate you.

H

Know an update of the district ordinance. What would that process look like, so I don't think anybody's. At least I'm not opposed to to mr. coble that right when.

H

Mr. coble said, if something is so different that this isn't meeting needs.

H

Anymore- and it doesn't make sense- I don't want to have them on the hook for yeah $350,000 a year either. I don't think anybody's, anticipating that I.

H

Think a reasonable response would be to change and update the district ordinance.

H

But I'm curious for staffs perspective. um Yes, absolutely they can come back and.

B

They have can have any condition amended or removed if it's no longer working out.

B

So that would be something that would go to the planning commission and the council. There hasn't been to my immediate knowledge, any situation where.

B

One specific condition: we have kind of run into this, a little bit with the.

B

Sudbury pud on the west side of town, where there were some specific.

B

Conditions that have given a lot of problems that people have discussed.

B

Coming back and removing or altering, but that path is always there any condition.

B

Of approval, including a reasonable condition, can be removed or amended. Okay,.

H

Maybe a follow-up question for petitioner, then as well I mean I'm open.

H

To including language similar to the effect that you, you know shared, and I.

H

Always have a hard time imagining exactly what that would look like it's we're predicting some unknown scenario. I mean, I think it could be tighter.

H

Perhaps the language here that says this, you know this amount of funding or this.

H

Commitment will go, you know, I don't know, we better define, maybe exactly that this.

H

Will go to transit in you know something like its current form. I'm not sure how.

H

To how to write that yeah, I'm not sure either, but I could go back to the office.

I

And we could draft something up for your consideration, if that's appropriate sure.

I

I just you know if, if, if I didn't say anything, my lawyers would kill me.

I

So I'm saying something so that yeah, I'm I'm open to a reasonable discussion.

H

About it, I think you're here and your concerns are valid and I don't think any.

H

Would anybody would intend to hold you to something that didn't you know really.

H

Exist in the future for the funding, but if it makes makes your company and your.

H

Boss is more comfortable if we get something in there to that effect. I'm open to that great. Thank you. Any other questions.

A

About this reasonable condition- yes, mr. flaherty mr. may, this is coming in part.

H

From colleague councilmembers campbell larry, who is not on the land use committee, I think this is the most appropriate time to ask it, which is.

H

About the route 10 design and specifically miss gamble, larry had our.

H

Council members campbell larry had asked about the where the route will go and.

H

And whether it been considered to connect with the north kinser grocery.

H

Store the kroger plaza there instead or an option like that. I'm my understanding.

H

Is that it connects to the university, because the large multi-family building.

H

Is expected to be largely a student population from previous conversations.

H

And presentations, but I don't know if it directly connects to a guard. I guess it.

H

Would get you fairly close to you know the downtown blooming foods, but has that.

H

Been thought of, and was that considered, how was the route developed again? We.

O

Were trying to envision what was going to be the primary trip generating.

O

Generator so the thought was, the university campus would probably be the.

O

Primary place, given its the largest employer currently in the city and.

O

And then you have 40,000 plus students and I think, there's some anticipation.

O

That there will be numbers of students in this, the route could be designed.

O

Though, in anyway and and we're open to discussing that with the petitioner and.

O

Developing whatever route, whatever we think, is effective and moving people to.

O

Destinations that they're going to and that as drafted and as anticipated in.

H

Conversations with petitioner that could be adjusted like if you're hearing feedback from from residents, for instance that they really want a grocery store on the route. Sure that could be absolutely we're open to that and we.

O

Understand that transportation needs may change as as time goes on. Okay, thank you.

A

Are there any other questions before we go to the public? All right is there.

A

Anybody in the public who would like to speak just to this reasonable condition.

A

About transit all right, seeing none, we come back to council for comment on the.

A

Reasonable condition councilmember bowling we've had the technology to do.

E

You know the crazy ways of moving people for a long time. The automobile was such.

E

A thing I mean when the automobile became popular there were into urban.

E

Rails crisscrossing, the state of indiana they were taken out. She thought the car.

E

Was better turns out that the car is not as efficient at moving people as the bus.

E

And the lowly pedestrian bus can move a substantially higher rate of people than.

E

Cars can so I mean until the day comes where I can. You know like buy a personal.

E

Levitation device and just fly places I'm pretty confident that we're going to.

E

To find this beneficial, and I think actually that this also addresses some.

E

Of the concern of the neighbors about traffic, the more people who are riding.

E

The bus, the fewer car trips there are, and meanwhile the neighborhood benefits.

E

From a different choice, they can make with a bus running by here that they can.

E

Travel sometimes bus. So having said that, I think this is.

E

A wonderful innovation- I do have a question about 360 days of service per.

E

Year and try to think of the five days that would be off, I guess thanksgiving.

E

Christmas may be new year's, but I'm wondering if leap day 2024 will we'll.

E

Have a bus service, but other than that, I'm very supportive of rc3. Thank you.

E

Thank you other comments. Councilmember flaherty. Yes, one just one quick comment.

H

Is that I think the routes that have been shared posed routes, one showed a.

H

Seventeenth street entrance and one showed an arlington street entrance and.

H

I just wanted to erlichman road rather, and I just want to express my preference.

H

For for arlington road, just based on the current system, map of bloomington.

H

Transit and that might better serve the mobile home park to the east of.

H

Arlington as well, and provide some service to an area of bloomington that.

H

Doesn't really have it right now or they ask to walk aways to transit. So I just.

H

Wanted to express that preference while we're on the subject. Thank you all right.

A

um I'm very much in favor of this reasonable condition. I do want to you.

A

Know see what the petitioner has to say after talking with their legal.

A

Department about you know making sure that they're not trapped in a situation.

A

If, for some bizarre unforeseen reason, bloomington transit cannot fulfill the.

A

Service that they require, so you know I'm open to to revising it a bit within.

A

The next week, but I think this is along with the the motel six site- I think this.

A

Is a great trend of having developers contribute to our public transit system.

A

Especially in this site, which is really pretty far from where people work and go.

A

To school and and work live and play, this is really essential, in my view, to.

A

Approving this pewdie, because otherwise it would be totally card dependent and.

A

We we want to discourage that in the city of bloomington. We would.

A

Like to decrease vehicle mileage, mods travel not increase them, given the.

A

Urgency of climate change and the commitments that we've made as a city so.

A

I'm very much in favor of this, so if somebody would like to recommend you.

P

Pass and I'll just start on my right. Yes, yes! Yes, yes, all right, so we recommend to.

A

The full council do pass a reasonable condition. Number three: next, we go to.

A

Reasonable condition number four mr. rowland, so all this is asking for is.

E

That the townhomes in area b, that we talked about a little bit earlier, that.

E

They follow the curve of the street that they not be. I mean we did hear about a.

E

Problem with the townhomes on the the south eastern most corner, where they.

E

Were trying to avoid a wetland, and so the road curves away from those.

E

Buildings: okay: we can't win them all, but on the main street, which we don't have a.

E

Name for that we talked about putting a parallel parking lot, that the buildings.

E

Be staggered so as to match the curve of the street. And it appears that in the.

E

Redesign the petitioners have demonstrated this idea. It's a minor.

E

Thing and not even sure, it's necessary at this point, because it looks like.

E

They've already planned it, but I you know in case there's any question. I'm.

E

Happy to answer them all right, any questions for mr. boland and should how.

A

We go to the petitioner any since they've already drawn it. This way, no.

A

Okay, I see a thumbs up from the petitioner may I actually have a.

E

Question for the petitioners related to this that you know the buildings are.

E

Show gaps between them and you know this: could this idea raise the question for.

E

Me of since you don't have like a unified street front. There are you gonna.

E

Put any kind of fencing between buildings so as to discourage somebody.

E

Who's walking on the sidewalk from walking between buildings.

E

Unless there's an intentional path between buildings, you can see in this.

E

The staggered houses here, they're at batch of five in the batch of six, a.

E

Batch of five but there's spaces between them, like what's your you're, referring.

I

To the spaces between the cottage and townhome buildings, and well particularly.

E

I'm looking like behind it, where the homes already up against the street, but.

E

You see on the corner like there's a gap between the buildings. I see yeah, you.

I

Know we are not currently planning to fence in between the buildings that'll.

I

Be green space that much of that will be planted, and so you know we do not have.

I

That plant today, okay, it's a minor question.

E

Thank you anyway. I have a question for mr. garlic. It looks like you made a.

A

Little addendum to the map was that you know that was the oh. That was the.

A

Architect, no, that was me yeah, so I'm very interested in this because that.

A

There's another curve that perhaps it's beneficial to have the townhomes follow.

A

Mr. moriarty, would you speak to whether that is reasonable feet feasible? Yes,.

J

Please maybe mr. fannia would weigh in as well yes and um danger of losing my.

D

Job there's that we could do a similar type of arrangement that we did here.

D

Where we kind of bring those forward a little bit and that's the flexibility, I.

D

Think we're gonna need to work with with staff on is just because of the grade.

D

There's there's a lot of great and things are gonna be dictated by grade in.

D

Terms of a ta access and sidewalk and all those sorts of things that we'll.

D

Need to hopefully have enough flexibility to work with staff on.

D

Getting a suitable arrangement that meets code and still does some of the.

D

Things that we're trying to do here, I would suggest that we'll look at it, but.

G

We start getting close to that wetland area and the grades.

G

Start getting steeper in that location, I held him back there for that reason, but.

G

If we can bring them up some or all or as shown we will sounds good. It's add.

A

Something I think well, I don't want to speak for others, but it's certainly.

A

Something I would be in favor of it is that was my intent as well. I just sort.

E

Of assumed that there was nothing that could be done if something could be done to bring those buildings in the extreme corner closer to the road. Everyone would.

E

Benefit there as well, all right are there other questions on reasonable.

A

Condition, for I mean I see on the the map the earlier map that the wetland.

E

That draws through there is not yeah. It's it's not a big part. It's really.

E

More closer to the north side of that curve. If those buildings there can be.

E

Brought closer to the road that would be, or the road brought closer to the the.

E

Buildings, either way whatever is most expedient. I think the petitioner will.

B

Look into that and that's why I expect a revised preliminary plan next meeting so.

E

I mean I might the the phrase and the reasonable condition is the townhomes.

E

Along the main street running through area b, I would love to say the townhomes.

E

Along the streets running through area b, but I don't feel the need to change it.

E

At this point, as long as everyone makes a good-faith effort to try to do the.

E

Same in that corner, as on the main street.

A

All right, if there are no other questions, we will go to the public any.

A

Member of the public want to speak to only this reasonable condition. Seeing.

A

None we'll come back to committee members for comment. Anyone even want to.

A

Comment on this recommend you pass all right. I will start on my left this time.

A

Yes, yes, yes all right! So that's a do. Pass recommendation to the full council.

A

Unreasonable condition number for.

A

Reasonable condition, number five is one that I'm sponsoring and it says the.

A

Petitioner shall provide a minimum of 12 parking spaces in areas b through d that.

A

Are plug-in ready and that solar arrays shall be installed to generate.

A

Sufficient electricity to power these electric vehicle charging stations, this.

A

Is something that's already in the plans, but then the the requirement was only 8.

A

So I just want to reflect 12, which is what they plan to do anyway.

A

So are there any questions about that concerns from the petitioner any.

A

Concerns from the petitioner, no, we plan on 12 very good, any buddy in the public.

A

Like to speak to this reasonable condition, all right, we'll come back for.

A

Comment or a do pass recommendation.

E

Recommend you pass all right. Let's start on my right. Yes, yes, yes,.

A

Yes- and we are also unanimously in favor of that reasonable condition so are.

A

There any final comments on the overall ordinance, 2004 councilmember, boland yeah.

E

I just wanted to reiterate the significance of the discussion we had.

E

About parallel versus 90-degree parking, anything other than 90-degree parking is.

E

Desirable, especially if you would consider angled parking that you can.

E

Then do back in parking like widths on the lost project. We approved the tyler.

E

Currie project that would reduce the impact of cars feeling life of what is.

E

Euphemistically called the street actually being feeling like a parking.

E

Lot, when you have para perpendicular parking on both sides of it hit models.

E

Will be a parking lot? It's not a real street, so spreading the parking.

E

Throughout the project so as to put parallel parking on everything that even.

E

Remotely resembles the street in order to reduce 90 degree parking would be.

E

Beneficial and you know I'm looking forward to seeing what the petitioner.

E

And staff can work out between now next week, I'd like to stay in close contact.

E

In order to help, if an rc is necessary, develop at rc so that it's sensitive for.

E

Everyone involved, but I think that's going to be at this point, the the.

E

Difference between what I think is a good project and a great project. You.

E

Know I well I'm appreciative of some of the.

E

Neighborhood concerns and some which I think we've addressed well, you know some.

E

Of the constraints prevent us from having the connectivity we desire, I.

E

Would say that closing off one of the two main streets into the project is a.

E

Bad idea that would create more traffic the one end and that we should have more.

E

Ways into the project, unfortunately, it's constrained by a highway and the like.

E

But for project as constrained as this, it's done a really great job of.

E

Mitigating concerns about traffic by having more than one entrance and exit.

E

By putting in a substantial commitment to transit, frankly, the the largest one.

E

That I can think of to date- and you know, and also creating the the walkability.

E

That, especially if the the parking is changed, as we've discussed, will really.

E

Make it a much more walkable place? I do have a small concern about the.

E

Commercial space, one thing that I'm thinking about that, I don't feel the.

E

Need to act on right now is that the likelihood of the commercial space will.

E

Be being being successful will be greatly enhanced by the addition of a.

E

Commercial hood that way it guaranteed the one of the biggest challenges for.

E

Any food and drink place for any restaurant is the expense of installing.

E

The hood and retrofitting that on a building is much more expensive than.

E

Thinking about it when you're building it. So if a commercial hood were part of.

E

The commercial space it would all it would be much more likely to guarantee.

E

Success of a neighborhood serving food and drink place and with a 800 or so.

E

People living in this area- I think it would- I mean the one of the things that.

E

I heard crescent bend to talk about the last time this project was under.

E

Consideration was that they didn't want more low, encompassing that it was.

E

Concentrated in this area- and this is providing a nice mix of all types of.

E

Housing and income levels and I think that the potential for a commercial.

E

Space here be doing well, is, is quite a bit higher than in most projects that.

E

I've seen so just making sure that I mean it would need to be a third place.

E

Pleasure people gather, and that means a restaurant or a bar.

E

A restaurant is going to do well if it's easier to prepare food, otherwise you're.

E

Looking at a subway, so something that I would urge the petitioners to think.

E

About if I think that it's going to maximize the rent ability of the.

E

Commercial space and otherwise I'm looking forward to seeing what will.

E

Happens at this project. Thank you. Thank you. Other council member comments.

A

Councilmember flaherty first, I want to say, appreciate the residents and members.

H

Of the crescent bend neighborhood association for being here and commenting and following up on this project over time in both its iterations.

H

As well as a petitioner for promptly getting back to our questions and.

H

Considering them seriously um and help them work through through our questions.

H

Concerns I'll echo councilmember volans point that I agree that the more we can.

H

Make streets in in parcel I'd be less like parking lots and more like streets.

H

That much better in my mind, I saw some reservations about the fronts facing.

H

Backs of homes, I think that's kind of a function of the the wetlands and the.

H

Shape of the lot there may be is nothing that can be done about that. Besides.

H

Trying to design the buildings in a way that they can still have some.

H

Interaction across that that street, I think I'll mention two other things.

H

One is that the street grid obviously, is something I was interested in and and.

H

Think it's really important for us to streets are gonna, be around a long long.

H

Time when they go in and and the extent that we can implement a grid, that's.

H

That's great, I know there are constraints here. The one sticking points.

H

Order for me and it's not a deal breaker, but I still think when the street comes.

H

In from 17th, the western most entrance, I would have loved was seen the that goes.

H

Straight through all the way to connect with the east-west main connector road, I.

H

Think was mentioned that the idea was to slow traffic or reduce cut through.

H

Traffic, but I think unbalanced, I actually think it's better the opposite.

H

Way like when we, when we design, cul-de-sacs or roads with curves and and.

H

And neighborhoods, to avoid allowing traffic.

H

Was we concentrated all in arterioles, which creates very busy roads and kind.

H

Of this collector system that that I think we're trying to eat away from, I.

H

Know that elements of what I sort of drew up as a conversation point were not.

H

Implementable necessarily but I'll also say I have less concern about the.

H

Increase in impervious surface in the context of making a really good public.

H

Space just for to share those views with staff and for future developments. I I.

H

Think that's! Okay! When we are when the priority is to make it a good street.

H

Scrapers streetscape and a good public space final point. I appreciate again.

H

Petitioner, helping to explain their thinking in the context of solar, energy and rental units and and something I'll be following up on with. Certainly with.

H

Mr. crowley, with esd, to talk about how we can try to address this splint, send a.

H

Problem and figure out a structure that might allow for future projects, whether.

H

From trying to us, or from other developers to to pursue what, if we can.

H

Get the structure right is in everyone's economic interest, it saves everyone money and, of course it's the right thing to do for for all of us. For, for the.

H

Future of our planet and and for meeting bloomington's commitments on climate.

H

Change so I'll leave it at that for for this week and again think your everybody.

H

For commenting in to me thanks, councilmember rosenberger, thank you. I.

F

First wanted to say, I really appreciate the petitioner for working with city.

F

Staff to make some changes that we up here we're worried about. I really liked.

F

That you added some townhomes to the area area across from the multi-family.

F

With the duplexes, so I like that mix in there, I think it does change that for.

F

The better I mean I will echo what my fellow council members up here have said.

F

So far that I do hope, area b can get to a more grid, feel where kiddos won't be.

F

Playing in a parking lot or yeah, most most interactions won't be happening in.

F

A parking lot but folks have talked to that. I will echo the concerns of.

F

The public and members from across the neighborhood that I'm, I am concerned.

F

About the traffic on 17th, especially at that crescent street area, I do drive.

F

There on a regular basis and sometimes run through it, and it is hard to see so.

F

I know it last many think I spoke a little bit about maybe that hopefully we.

F

Can look into a flashing yellow for bike ped to get through there? I know that.

F

Would be something we would look at with the city, but it is a hard place to cross.

F

And if we want people to bike and walk out of there, we're gonna want to give.

F

Them a safe place to cross that busy street. Let's see, I am also really.

F

Excited about the bus route, I think that working to get a public bus instead of a.

F

Private shuttle is a really great opportunity for other folks. We've got.

F

Homes right across from this, we have new workforce housing going in on crescent.

F

That's almost finished for residents and we have chandler's glen residents who.

F

Well, I think, really benefit from another bus option and I'm excited that we have.

F

A 40-minute frequency and I would hope over time we could maybe get that to.

F

Something closer to 20 minutes. Just so folks can get out the door and not.

F

Necessarily have to check a schedule thanks a lot. Thank you. Well, nobody, none.

A

Of my colleagues mentioned that trinity ahs is giving the city 45 single-family.

A

Losses which I think is amazing, I think it's a wonderful aspect of this project.

A

I'm sure everybody agrees it's just. There are a lot of things to think about.

A

Here so I commend the petitioner for doing.

A

That I think it's very exciting for the city to be able to develop workforce.

A

Housing, housing that is more affordable than what most people can find within.

A

City limits and to combine that with a bus route is excellent, because then you.

A

Know a family may be able to be a single-car family instead of a two-car.

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Family, because of the bus connections that they have from here, so I think.

A

That's exciting, I think the funding the bus route is is exciting.

A

I do think we need to have at least every 40 minutes, so that's why I support.

A

That reasonable condition. I also agree about the the parking lot.

A

Between the two rows of townhomes in area b, that that is not desirable and.

A

Not neighborhood friendly, not you know, it's not conducive to community activity.

A

And and neighborliness, so I do hope we can cut the number of perpendicular.

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Spaces there, by adding on street parallel parking so looking forward to.

A

Seeing how that conversation goes with the developer, but I think this is an.

A

Exciting project and I like the the changes that have been made to combine.

A

Some of the cottage homes with the townhomes mix it up a little more than.

A

It was previously so I'm I'm very excited about this, and I appreciate that.

A

The petitioner has listened to us and and made some changes that that address.

A

Some of our concerns from last meeting, so I'm ready for a recommendation.

A

Recommend do pass as amended all right. So now we will just do a straw vote of.

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Our recommendation that we will send to the full council and I'll start on my.

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Left, yes! Yes! Yes, yes, all right, so our recommendation to the full council is to.

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Approve three reasonable conditions and to approve the petition, as amended by.

A

Those conditions- and I believe, that's all of our business tonight- this will go.

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To the full council at the regular session next wednesday march, 4th so.

A

You'll have another chance to speak. Then, oh before we go, I did want to make sure.

A

That the neighbors received the responses from eric graylek to your.

A

Questions he did respond via email, so she didn't get that for some reason. You.

A

Can check with with the staff? So thank you all for being here and we are.

A

P