City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 12 Feb 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington City Council, February 12, 2020

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meeting agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5445

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Good evening, everyone and welcome to this wednesday meeting of the committee.

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Of the whole of the bloomington common council, this meeting will address.

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Ordinance 2003 to amend title for the bloomington municipal code entitled.

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Business licenses and regulations adding chapter 4.3 to non-consensual, towing.

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Business we are going to have a motion on how to conduct the meeting this.

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Evening that might differ just slightly from our usual proceeding of a committee.

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Of the whole, but before we do that, I would ask that perhaps we have a brief.

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Presentation on the amendment, or do you want to move to the procedure? First, the.

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Procedural okay, let's just see if we could have that motion read then please.

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Suspend the rules to structure and limit deliberations on ordinance 2003 in the.

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Following manner an initial presentation by council staff to review the ordinance.

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To respond to unanswered questions or concerns and to discuss possible.

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Amendments, then, if the spa's are so chooses, introduction in turn of.

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Amendments one two and three: each to be followed by the normal period of council.

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Questions public comment limited to five minutes per speaker and council debate.

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On the specific amendment before a do pass, recommendation on each amendment is.

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Entertained during council debate on any given amendment council members are free.

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To make comments or ask questions of any stakeholders in the audience that are.

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Willing to speak to the issues a period, then we will have a period of council.

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Questions on the ordinance as a whole, either as written or as amended. Then we.

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Will have a period of public comment on the ordinance as a whole, whether or not.

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It has been amendment with each speaker limited to five minutes per speaker. Then.

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We will come back to council for council debate on the ordinance as a whole.

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Amended or not with councilmembers free to make comments or ask questions of any.

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Stakeholders in the audience willing to speak to the issues, each line of.

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Questioning or discussion is to no more than five minutes. Finally,.

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After the debate has ended, a suitable motion would be entertained either to.

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Continue committee deliberation on february 26 or to return the ordinance.

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To the council, with a due pass recommendation, while no specific time.

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Limits are placed on council members themselves, they are asked to be concise.

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And mindful of everyone's time when asking questions are making comments.

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Subject to the discretion of the chair, and this must be seconded it's it's.

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Debatable and amendable and these a two-thirds majority to pass so it has.

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Been moved and seconded any discussion on the motion to structure or debate.

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This evening, council, member berliner- yes I'd like to know like will we be able to.

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Have sort of the back and forth we talked about you know at the previous.

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Meeting so that we can get that conversation going about, you know.

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Whether or not these amendments alone are sufficient or we need more, that's.

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What the motion was all about, yes and again at the discretion of the chair too,.

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We will keep things moving. We want to make sure that we have that robust discussion, but we will be mindful of the time that we're taking in deliberating.

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On any possible amendments or changes, thank you. Anyone else wish to make a.

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Comment or have a concern all right. Are we ready to call the question on the.

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Motion on the table, if we could have a roll call, please councilmember roll. Oh.

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Yes, scan valerie; yes, rosenberg! Sorry, rosenberg! Yes, yes, boland! Yes,.

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Piedmont: smith, yes, flaherty; yes, smith, yeah,.

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Sandberg, yes, all right, let us begin with our presentation. Thank you counsel. My.

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Name is stephen lucas and the deputy administrator / deputy attorney for the.

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Counsel office and I'd like to give an update on ordinance 2003. I thought I'd.

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Start with just a brief history for those new to the the issue and for the.

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Councilmembers about how we got where we are today, I first wanted to note that.

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Although this is a council driven initiative, councilmember sims is.

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Sponsoring this legislation, this ordinance was drafted in close.

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Collaboration with the city administration, given that they are the.

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Ones that are going to have to implement and administer this this program, so I.

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Wanted to make that note and say that there are a few folks here from the administration who can answer questions tonight. If you have them this ordinance.

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Was first discussed at a council work session on january 10th, it was released.

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In the council's legislative packet that same day, which gets sent to a.

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Distribution list that the council uses to alert the media and public of what.

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We're doing it was emailed directly to monroe county towing companies on.

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January 13th to alert them of this ordinance and to invite any feedback or.

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Comments that they might have at that time, it was introduced on january 15th.

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At a regular session, it was discussed for the first time at a council meeting.

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Publicly at the committee of the whole on january, 22nd as a result of feedback.

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At that meeting, we included additional stakeholders and directly contacted them.

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And invited them to review and comment on the ordinance and those stakeholders.

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Included the downtown bloomington inc chamber of commerce, indiana legal.

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Services, district and pro bono project, south central community action program.

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And the monroe county apartment association, in addition to the same.

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Towing companies that received the first notice those those same folks received.

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Another email alerting them of tonight's meeting and inviting them to this.

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Discussion tonight and I also wanted to note that the.

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To date, currently in the ordinance as july 1st, so while final action could.

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Occur as early as next week, this ordinance wouldn't take effect as written until july, 1st, giving us time to address any other issues that come up so.

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With that background, I wanted to kind of tell you what the scope of feedback is.

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That we've received at the council office so beyond the comments that you.

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You all have heard at public meetings, we've received written comments from.

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Three stakeholders to toho companies in the monroe county, apartment association.

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And then have had less formal conversations either before meetings or.

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After meetings with with some of the folks here tonight, so that's the extent.

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Of the feedback and as a result, I will talk about that in a second. I also.

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Wanted to briefly remind everyone of what the purpose of this ordinance is.

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There was a question I think at the january 22nd meeting of of why this is.

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Needed or what the purpose is, and it's largely covered in the, whereas clauses.

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But it might have received kind of short shrift at that that first meeting, so I.

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Wanted to go over that again, the purpose of this ordinance is stated in the.

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Whereas clauses would be to primarily prevent predatory practices, and these.

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Predatory practices certainly aren't something that all tow companies engage.

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In we're not saying that at all, but these are the practices that we're.

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Trying to discourage and those practices would be to refute, refusing to release a.

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Vehicle before it's been removed from private property, towing vehicles, a great.

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Distance engaging in kickback arrangements or charging exorbitant.

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Storage or towing fees, another purpose of this is to increase safety by.

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Providing a known set of rules that all can follow in the community. You can.

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Imagine how these tows lead to circumstances where conflict might.

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Happen, and so part of the benefit of having this ordinance in place is that.

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Everyone's on the same page, they know how these tows are supposed to go and.

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They know what the rules are. Finally, a big part of this is providing consumer.

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Protection to help protection for the community's most.

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Vulnerable residents, some of those provisions include a cap on the fees.

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That companies can can charge, as well as requiring the release of the vehicle for.

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A certain amount, so I just wanted to kind of recenter us on the purpose of.

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This ordinance before I get into a number of questions or suggestions or.

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Concerns that have been raised through various ways that so far haven't led to.

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Any recommended amendments from either the the sponsor of the legislation or.

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From the administration who has to put this all into practice and I'm gonna go.

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Through each quickly and in respect for your time, but if you have, if you'd like.

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Any more detail, just just interrupt me and I'll I'll expand. There were various.

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Comments at previous meetings questioning the need for a.

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Contemporaneous written authorization when these toes occur, and that is.

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Required under section four point, three two point: one: zero: zero: if you're.

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Following along on the ordinance, I think both the administration in the sponsor.

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Of the legislation would oppose removing this requirement or amending it. Somehow.

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This is a section that provides protection to vehicle owners by.

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Requiring a record of the tow when it takes place, and it also requires.

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Property owners to affirm that they're liable for any damages for improperly.

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Towed vehicles- this is an important part of the consumer protection purpose of.

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The ordinance and I believe, the administration in the and the sponsor of.

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The legislation would oppose removing it. There were general statements made of.

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Previous meetings that we've discussed before this statute, somehow or this.

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Ordinance somehow conflicts with state law. I haven't received any more specific.

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Feedback than that and it's hard to respond to such a general claim, I can.

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Say that it's been reviewed both by council staff and legal department for.

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Compliance with state law, we don't believe it conflicts with state.

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Law, there's nothing in our ordinance that requires someone to choose between.

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Complying with state law or this local ordinance.

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And I'll leave that there we've received questions about the need for the.

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Insurance requirements included in the ordinance. Those are under four point.

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Three two point: zero, nine, zero and specifically folks have questioned why.

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The city needs to be listed as an additional insured. I will defer to the.

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Administration, if they'd want, if they'd like to expand but to my understanding.

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This provision tracks what we require in our city, contracts with tow companies.

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For city initiated toes and the requirement that they list the city as.

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An additional insured is an important way that we can limit the city's.

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Liability and it shouldn't be too much of a burden on tow companies. This is.

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Something that we require elsewhere in our in our code and that the city has.

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Experience within is our general practice. I believe the next room sure.

E

When you say it's required elsewhere in our code, can you give that context.

E

Please, thank you. It's required in our contracts with tow companies that.

B

Perform city initiated tows, I'm sorry, okay, and that's the only other reference.

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You were making there, I believe so. Okay, someone from the legal department can.

B

Correct me, if I'm wrong later on, there were, there were calls it at a few.

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Meetings for a centralized website or some way for tow companies and all these.

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Different agencies that perform tows to communicate or figure out who's doing.

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These toes where the vehicles are located. Personally, I think that's a very.

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Interesting idea, I think it could cut down on a lot of issues, but I also.

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Believe it's beyond the scope of this current ordinance and including.

B

Something like that in this ordinance would require much more work than than I.

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Think was envisioned by the sponsor of the legislation, and it may be something.

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That draws on people outside of the city, so it's an interesting idea. It's not.

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Something I think we should ignore, but I think it might be beyond the scope of.

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What this ordinance can do, there was a suggestion made to increase the charge.

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That tow companies can charge to folks for release of the vehicle.

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From 20% to 30%- and this would be under four point three two point: one to zero.

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And maybe the folks that suggested that could comment more on it when, when the.

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Time comes, but I believe the rationale is that there's a cost to the tow.

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Companies, I believe, for the drivers that sort of set adam at that percentage, so.

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It neatly fits with a percentage that they have to pay and it might make their.

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Business operations a little easier.

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There was a suggestion that the city somehow require or insure that company.

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That towing companies are maintaining appropriate department of transportation.

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Numbers and remain properly license. I believe the ordinance does this under.

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Four point: three two point: one: six, zero, we don't say as much, but we provide for.

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Penalties for any companies that operate in a manner contrary to any federal.

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State or local law my opinion and I believe the administration's opinion.

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Would be that we not get more specific than that, given that that those are.

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Requirements that fall outside of our city code and that can change from time.

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To time so, I think simply having a statement that says companies have to.

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Comply with federal state or other local laws is sufficient to cover this concern.

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There was a question by the monroe county apartment association and they.

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Wanted to ensure that emergency tows could still take place without 24-hour.

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Notice, this would fall under section, 4 point 3, 2 point 1, 1 0 and also touches.

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On a state statute that typically requires a 24-hour notice before a.

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Vehicle can be towed from private property. There's a requirement to place.

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A sticker on the vehicle wait that time before you can tow a vehicle there's an.

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Exception to that, and that exception allows property owners to tow a vehicle.

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Believed to be abandoned in an emergency situation and an emergency situation is.

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Defined as a vehicle that interferes with property owners, business.

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Operations or presents a a hazard to health or safety, essentially, nothing in.

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Our ordinance conflicts with that that state, that is state law. We can't.

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Prohibit that- and I don't believe the ordinance needs to clarify that and in.

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Fact we we say under four point: three, two point, one one: zero that folks are.

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Still free to follow that that state law, I heard a comment at a previous meeting.

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About somehow applying similar regulations to toes performed by iu, I.

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Don't know exactly what what they had in mind, but I just wanted to clarify that.

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We can't impose any any of these restrictions on on, I you or how they.

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Conduct these toes under state law, that's a separate entity and we can't do.

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That actually one of the council members raised an interesting idea about.

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Requiring some proof of hardship or some proof of inability to pay under four.

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Point three two point one to zero, which is the provision that allows for the.

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Release of the vehicle upon payment of twenty percent of the fees and execution.

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Of a payment agreement for the balance, I think that's an interesting idea. I'm not.

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Sure how that would work in practice, given the possible inability of folks to.

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Provide documentation or some proof other than a statement that says they're.

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Not able to pay, I would point out that, as part of this ordinance, the.

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Administration intends to release certain draft documents or certain.

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Sample payment agreements so, for example, this provision reference is a payment.

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Agreement, I believe the city intends to provide a sample payment agreement that.

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Folks are towing, companies are free to use if they wish and that payment.

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Agreement might be an appropriate place to put some sort of statement or.

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Affirmation that the person going that route isn't able to pay the full price.

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For release of the vehicle, there were questions about who issues.

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The fines under the ordinance and who hears appeals under this ordinance, the.

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City legal department would be the department that issues the notices of.

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Violations and is charged with enforcing this ordinance and the board of public.

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Works would be the body that hears any adverse decisions as far as fines or.

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License suspensions or revocations an idea. I heard from one of the the.

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Stakeholders, a previous meeting, was to have some other body, hear appeals and.

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That body would contain or include a member of the towing industry. I'm not.

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Sure how that would work, I think the preference of both the administration.

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And the sponsor would be to have the appeals heard by the board of public.

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Works. It's a known body. They have an appeals process, that's already in place.

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And any folks that come before the board of public works would certainly be able.

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To present their case, how they needed to which might include bringing bringing.

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Other folks that they wanted to have come, there was a suggestion to charge a.

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Lower fee for the license after the first year, this would fall under four.

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Point three: two point: zero: seven: zero: the administration reviewed this request.

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And discussed it and doesn't believe the administrative burden would be less in.

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Subsequent years, when they're looking at renewing licenses, they think the same.

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Amount of work is involved and they would prefer not to charge a lower fee.

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For renewal of the licenses, similarly, a request was made to provide for a.

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License with a term longer than one year currently, the city doesn't provide any.

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License with the term longer than one year, and I believe the administration's.

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Preference is to keep it that way for consistency's sake, and we they do.

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Provide terms shorter than a year, I believe, up to a day.

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And in the years as long of a term as we have currently in our code, so they don't.

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Want to extend that. Finally, there were comments made or concerns raised about.

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Requiring towing companies to accept credit cards simply put the ordinance.

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Doesn't do this and can't do this under state law? There's a state law that.

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Says towing companies can elect to accept credit cards if they choose, but.

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Our ordinance doesn't require them to so those. I know I went through those.

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Quickly, those, I hope, encompassed as much of the feedback as as I've received if.

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There are other questions, I'm happy to address that, but now I'm gonna move on.

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To things that have led to amendments that are drafted and that may be.

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Introduced tonight and I'll, let the sponsor you know, comment on these a.

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Little bit more when when he chooses to introduce them but I'll just briefly go.

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Over what the idea was that was raised, one of the main comments that I've heard.

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Is that the ordinance should be amended to change the base fee from one hundred.

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And twenty five dollars to one hundred and thirty five dollars for for a tow.

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This would I've commented on this before this would match what other public.

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Agencies are allowing companies to charge when they perform toast for those.

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Agencies and would make things simpler for the companies and and possibly for.

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The public who who might not distinguish between who's, towing, their car or why.

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Their cars being towed, they just simply see that their car's been towed. So I.

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Think uniformity does have its its value. I've mentioned before that doing this.

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There's a recommendation from the administration to also make a similar.

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Change under title 15 and I think the preference would be to do that as a.

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Separate ordinance, it's something that could be wrapped into this. This.

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Ordinance, but I I think it might be cleaner to do those changes as a.

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Separate title 15 ordinance, but I just wanted to make that.

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There was an idea put forward by the administration that deals with the non.

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Renewal or the denial of a license and you'll see this as amendment 2. If the.

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Sponsor so chooses to introduce it, but the idea here is that we had a provision.

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That said, a license could be suspended or revoked for violations of this.

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Ordinance, but nothing that that prevented that allowed the city to.

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Decline to renew a license if someone had been previously fined or found to be.

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In violation of this or to decline to issue a license in the first place, if.

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They are found to have violated similar provisions in another city, similar.

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Ordinance, for example, indianapolis has an ordinance that this was largely.

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Modeled off of and atone company that has been fined multiple times under that.

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Ordinance the city may not want to issue a license to that company here in.

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Bloomington, so that's the idea behind that. Finally, there are just some non.

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Substantive technical changes that that amendment 3 address the the last thing.

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I'll say about amendments is that there has been a suggestion to add an.

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Administrative fee for towing companies to be able to charge two folks and.

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Perhaps they can speak more to this, for the need for this, and for what this.

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Would go to cover? I don't believe this has the support of the administration or.

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The sponsor of the legislation at this time, but given the chance to to expound.

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On the need for this feat that may change an ordinance has been drafted to.

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Allow the council to discuss this if they want to, but at this time I don't.

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Believe that that amendment has a sponsor, so with that, I will just note.

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Again that some of the things that that this ordinance does may necessitate a.

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Change to title 15, which the administration supports, I mentioned the.

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The change of the price and the base fee from 125 to 135. Another change that I.

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Believe the administration would be supportive of is changing the rules for the release of vehicle for a city initiated tow.

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Currently, under title 15 for a city initiated tow, the towing company is.

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Required to release the vehicle without any payment.

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I believe the administration would support and would possibly recommend.

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Changing that to mere whatever we do in this ordinance as far as a 20% payment.

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Or whatever that number ends up being to provide consistency, it also recognizes.

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That there's work that a tow company does, I believe, when, when they perform these toes and and provides them some.

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Compensation for that one last note: I mentioned before that the current.

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Effective date of this ordinance is july 1st, as written depending on when the.

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Council or if the council takes final action on this ordinance, it may want to.

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Consider change in the effective date to reflect that there may be a month that.

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Has passed since the intended action date of february the fifth? So when that.

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Effective date was written, it was anticipated that this might be voted on.

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On february the 5th it's looking like it may extend until march the 4th, so the.

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Council may want to consider an amendment to change the effective date to give not only the city time to create the documents that would need to create.

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And to put this into practice, but also to give companies time to adjust any.

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Business practices they need to work on to come into a compliance with this.

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Ordinance, I believe, that's all I have at the moment, I'm happy to answer any.

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Questions and I noted before that folks from the administration are also here to.

B

Answer questions. Thank you very much. Are there any council questions regarding.

A

The presentation we've just heard council member boland.

A

Thank you. Yes, so just a quick question about appeals, can you go back to the to.

D

The there we go regarding appeals, you say that, as it is now, appeals would be.

D

Heard by the board public works is that any side in a transaction the.

D

Tow company or the person towed like I said this does a person it was towed. Can.

D

They appeal that, and if so is that to the bpw, I believe as written our our.

B

Ordinance under four point three two point: one: six zero would just apply to.

B

Adverse decisions of the city against a tow company, someone who is aggrieved.

B

With an improper tow would be responsible for pursuing action on their.

B

Own, in other words, in small claims, court there's no essentially, yes, thank you.

A

Mister counsel attorney brooker city attorney just to piggyback. I think what.

F

Stephen said is exactly right, though, of course, I would want to point out that if.

F

The city had engaged in an enforcement action against a tow company and and.

F

Shown that the tow company was in violation of title 4, that would be.

F

Really an important piece of evidence for a citizen who is trying to show in a.

F

Civil action that he or she had had wrongly had their vehicle towed. If that.

F

Makes sense so I think they're related they're different legal actions, but.

F

Certainly, one one would have an impact on the other. Thank you and, and I'd like.

B

To add to that, if I could, I think it's relevant that under four point three two.

B

Point one: zero: zero, the contemporaneous written authorization, a property owner.

B

Authorizing a tow has to sign a statement that says that they would be.

B

Liable for any damages of the vehicle owner for any improper tows so provides.

B

The vehicle owner with another avenue for redress. Thank you.

D

Any additional council comments on the initial presentation all right, seeing.

A

None I would like to turn now to the sponsor to see if there's anything you.

A

Would like to add or begin the amendment work.

G

And thank you, mr. lucas, for your presentation. We would like to introduce.

G

Start to introducing of the amendments- and this is number one.

G

I moved do pass all right. We have a motion for amendment 1. Do we have a.

A

Second, we have a second thank you, amendment number 1 of ordinates 2003, the.

G

Proposed amendment is as follows: for ordinance 2003 section one shall be.

G

Amended by am ending section 4.3, 2.13 o, which is towing and storage fees by one.

G

Changing the amount 125 to 135 in section 4.3, 2.13, o.

G

Subset a 1 as well as- and this is a housekeeping adding the word dollars.

G

After the words 25 in section 4.3 2.13, oh so upset a 3 all right. That is the.

A

Amendment, do we have any council questions amendment one council, member.

A

Piedmont smith, so just to clarify the $135 figure comes from what I you and.

C

What the county government allows to be charged is that right and it can it.

G

Makes it consistent between the three entities? Thank you, and I will, and this.

G

Is probably not the time, but also the city ordinance, that's current that on.

G

The city initiated tolls or 125 will also have time in the future to amend.

G

That to reflect what we're talking about tonight.

A

Additional counsel questions seeing now me go to the public. If there's anyone.

A

Here, who wishes to speak on amendment, one feel free to come to the podium.

A

State, your name, marc lockley, I'm a local real estate developer. I think this is.

H

Clearly, a property rights issue. I find it interesting that the city of.

H

Bloomington and I you can charge for parking ticket and make tickets that are.

H

That are binding and tow cars from its lots, and yet it's impinging on the fact.

H

That, as a private property owner, I can't possibly potentially remove cars.

H

That are in the way of the parking spaces for my residents, especially in.

H

Most of our properties are urban and therefore, because of our approvals, we.

H

Are limited in the total amount of parking that we're allowed and so parking is already very tight, most parking spaces, in fact, for the 250 plus.

H

Units that we have all of our parking is assigned, and we have mixed-use.

H

Developments that have public and private parking side by side, and we have.

H

People outside public who park in residents parking spaces as an example.

H

At park south and hillside and henderson, we have people that are going to the.

H

Restaurants, not necessarily there or in the shopping in our area, not necessarily.

H

To ours, but to others around there that park in the residents parking spot.

H

Sometimes they leave it there for a couple of hours. Sometimes they leave it.

H

There overnight we've had cars left there for weeks at a.

H

Time as we're trying to get a hold of you know to find out who owns it and in.

H

This way we're not able to move these cars that are in very clearly marked.

H

Assigned resident parking we've had cars and that same development that had.

H

Blocked literally they've been parked and literally blocked the entrance into.

H

The development they just decided to park them they're gonna, go grab by deed.

H

And the residents can move can't get into the into the parking and out of the.

H

Parking, let alone the parking spaces they literally park in the middle of the.

H

In the middle of the intersection and therefore we're not sorry, the the.

H

Entrance into the development, and we would potentially not be able to move.

H

Those people- I find that very, very disturbing. You know the other thing in.

H

Being handled liable for the tow, I find that to be. I find that for hard to.

H

Believe that that would be possible because who's to say damage on a car.

H

Happened from the toe or happened from a previous accident or a previous incident.

H

We could take they, we could maybe make the the tow companies take pictures, but.

H

That only protects the outside of the vehicle and not what has happened.

H

Underneath, if there was, you know previous damage to suspension and to.

H

Frame and whatever and and therefore I'm held liable- and this is, I just find it.

H

Very a lot of gray- and it kind of disturbs me again because we have a.

H

Number of mixed-use developments that are urban and even some that are.

H

Suburban and I'll give you an example: we had a vehicle that was abandoned or.

H

Appears to be abandoned and one of our parking lots again didn't assign parking.

H

Which we in which we had towed, and it's been sitting at the tow company for over.

H

Two months that would have been sitting in my parking lot for over two months.

H

And therefore, I'm not able to to move it, I just find that again.

H

Very disturbing and mr. lockley, if I could stop you right here, what we're.

A

Debating is amendment one which has to do with the v/o the feet. So um I.

H

Apologize, no, that's my fault for not catching you sooner, but you'll have.

A

Plenty of an opportunity to talk about the amendment as a whole right now we're.

A

Taking the image for the detail, then I will recuse myself and come back later.

H

Thank you. Anyone else here to speak from the public on this amendment, which has.

A

To do with the fee, please, my name is cody chandler, I'm with a chamber.

I

Automotive in towing I'm the owner. I would like to hear more of a clear.

I

Breakdown of that fee that just includes the basic charge of 135 due to the.

I

Nature of this kind of towing the special treatment for this towing gets.

I

Nine out of ten times and you have to use special equipment with dollies.

I

Gojaks and that's an additional fee on top of.

I

That I like to hear some clarity on that. Okay, thank you for that. We will probably.

A

Get to that with council question, can I come in? Can I just ask a clarifying.

D

Question are you saying that that's the twenty five dollar administrative fee or.

D

Are you saying that's part of the 135 fee that we're okay? So this is about the.

D

135: okay, thank you and just a note to counsel when we get to the council.

A

Comments we are free. This is going to be the nature of the new structure. The.

A

Rules to ask any of the stakeholders who make comments any clarifying questions.

A

So we will have that opportunity any other public. This particular striker.

J

I've also had some clarity on the 135 based. Oh, this particular type of towing.

J

Non-Consensual was so stated here. My company policy is that we dolly every.

J

Vehicle, whether it's front-wheel drive, rear wheel, drive all wheel, drive ii.

J

Brakes on 5-speed vehicle, so our extra equipment charge would dolly's would.

J

Fall under that can, in our case we use them on every vehicle.

J

Regardless of drivetrain condition flat tire, you know whatever the case is so I.

J

Just want some clarity on what that base fee can include or is including and if.

J

There's anything additional to that base fee based on our current company policy.

J

So it's a kind of google insight on what we do for us.

J

Thank you. Anyone else from the public with respect to amendment 1.

D

If we could also ask other people to line up so that there's less time.

D

Between speakers thank ya there, my name is jacob padawan again, I'm a tow time.

K

Towing, I would like to add a little bit of clarity for these two, the 135. According to the ordinance, I might the way I.

K

Understand it is the base tow they're allowing us dollies for thirty five.

K

Dollars, in addition for the special equipment, slash dolly fees. One thing I.

K

Really want to focus on is the fact that this type of towing has so much more.

K

Overhead, whether that be insurance, whether that be what the drivers.

K

Responsibilities are to police those lots and I want you guys to carefully.

K

Consider the fact that iu does all the policing of their own lots. So when we've.

K

Already established that one thirty five plus the thirty five of her dollies plus.

K

The twenty five for administrative fee, plus twenty five for daily storage when.

K

We established that we're already establishing that rate is faired customary, based on the fact that the tow company that is contracted through iu.

K

Has to do zero of that policing. I use staffs all those people they do. The.

K

Tickets, they do everything like that and then they call the tow company. We show.

K

Up pick it up and leave, that's it. So when you're talking about private lot,.

K

In the the tow company has to do the policing and it's the responsibility and.

K

The liability for us- and we now take on all that overhead somewhere we got to.

K

Make that up, I do like the clarity idea for the 135. I understand that the.

K

Clarity for the public is kind of important. I really do see the value in.

K

That now the administrative fee is where I would look at increasing and not.

K

Having a consistent charge, every company's charges is their overhead.

K

Their insurance, the type of trucks they use, one man- might drive a five thousand.

K

Dollar, tow truck one man might drive a $95,000 tow truck okay, the insurance for.

K

One company might be two thousand a month, insurance for another company.

K

Could be thirty grand a month? You guys don't understand the overheads as well.

K

As maybe we do, and what I wanted to say is based on my company's experience. If I.

K

Have to fall in line with the 135 dollar base tow fee to match. I you.

K

Which I agree makes great sense as far as yeah consistency right, but in.

K

Order for us to do that, I believe that the administrative fee needs to reflect.

K

Our extra administrative duties, so, if we've already determined that $25 is.

K

Fair, as far as the I utah goes, I believe we need to add an extra 40 to our.

K

Administrative to cover all the administrative fees that our companies.

K

Take on to do all the policing for those toes and reliabilities and everything so.

K

I would structure it if we have to match the 135 for the tote 35 for dollies and.

K

The 25 dollars in storage and all that I really really really need to push you.

K

Guys to understand an administrative fee needs to fall in line at about $65.

K

That's already the fair and customary charge around $220 that we're talking.

K

About this town charging anyway, your average impound is between, like I said,.

K

Previously, 160 to 280 dollars, depending on how people charge the storage, whether.

K

It's by calendar day or whether it's by 24 hours or see everybody company, every.

K

Company is different, so I do think it's important to find a structure, but the.

K

Average, currently, right now for a first day, impound is 220 second day impound.

K

Usually like 260, if we structure it the way that I'm talking about, I believe it.

K

Would be 235 for the first day it would be 260 for the second day, so it stays in.

K

Line with the average that everybody is currently charging and I think the.

K

Consistency, though, with the base tow being lowered, would definitely create.

K

Clarity and stop the frustrations that people are having with inconsistent.

K

Ordinances all over the place and as of right now, that's all my comment for the.

K

Base no fee. Thank you. Thank you. Any additional public comment on amendment 1.

A

And again I do remind people when you come to the podium, please sign in as.

A

Well, as stating your name at this point, we'll come back to council.

A

For any questions, and again we may ask specific people who have spoken to.

A

Clarify council member bolin has the dolly feet.

D

What was the second feed the dolly fee and the other one? What was that know.

D

That, in addition to storage, there's the toffee, the dolly feed $25 for okay, which.

D

That's a subject of amendment for which is not sponsored yet, but I'm planning to.

D

Sponsor it just to talk about it, so our is the dolly fee considered in.

D

The law so section 4 point 3 to point 1, 3 0 a 2 allows a $25 fee for special.

B

Treatment, including dalene, and what I've heard is that that special treatment is.

B

Typical that most of a lot of these toes have that every time it's a $25 as.

D

Opposed to the 35 50 as written, it's $25 fruit, there's no amendment yet to adjust.

D

That either correct okay! Thank you. Additional questions from council from.

A

Anything we've heard: councilmember, scam, laurie.

L

And if you know, you're gonna be answering questions that council may.

A

Have you may want to look closer to the boat? I absolutely invite the chance to.

K

Talk about these things, okay, so the special treatment and dollies can fall.

K

The reason why I said 35 is because I'm trying to consistency with the iu basis.

K

That they've already considered customary, so I'm not really talking much.

K

On what this ordinance currently is because, as it sits right now, I'm.

K

Starting to disagree with it, so I do want to. I do want to target towards iu. I.

K

Do think that's a very fair price point and it's already been determined as far.

K

As the special equipment- okay, you have skates, skates are used to pull cars out.

K

Of the parking space they're, basically like a wooden skate that you can put.

K

Under the tires, as you pull the car out, it keeps it from dragging keeps the.

K

Axles from binding and everything like that, and then you can get to the front.

K

Of it that's special equipment. Sometimes you have to do that to pull them out of really tight places, because the dollies will be too wide, and you can't clear.

K

Certain parking garage post stuff like that, so there's there's a the dollies as.

K

Part of special equipment, the skates will be considered part of special equipment, any winching that you might have to do to move that car. It's a.

K

Special treatment there's so many different tools for that kind of stuff. There's also think I'll go jack's go jack's. Our mobile lifts wheels.

K

For a car, so let's say you have an all-wheel drive and you got to move it.

K

Out of a spot, you can put it on four of those go jacks and then push it out of.

K

Its spot and rotate it to where you can tow it and load it on dollies. So when.

K

You take into account all the special equipment that a truck has to be outfitted with it's easily. It's pretty easy to outfit just fit your truck with.

K

Thirty five hundred dollars worth of tools to do this type of towing and.

K

That's just on the back of the truck, and if you really want to be picky, you can.

K

Do more than that I mean there's, there's so much stuff that you can add for to do.

K

This job safely and securely for the vehicles, especially if you're stocking.

K

Enough of those go jacks for a four-wheel drive vehicle each one of those is like five hundred dollars, so that's two grand alone just in that tool. As any other question, I can answer.

K

Thank you wants to appreciate that. Okay and a follow-up question from mr. lucas.

L

Am I understanding correctly that this would be a $25 charge for each type of.

L

Special handling, so a dolly would be 25 escape, would be another 25. Am I reading.

L

This correctly or is a 25 maximum. I believe it's 25 maximum. I can tell you.

K

It's not our general practice to charge double if we did use skates and we did.

K

Use gojaks for a perfect example. One of the lots we tell from is behind the blue.

K

Bird down that four-way alley, if you guys can imagine how tight that is to.

K

Get a truck in there and then add a car to the back of it. It's actually very.

K

Complicated and we do have to use go-jacks a lot just to get them to the.

K

Alley where they can be in line with the trout to then go on dolly's, it is not.

K

Our typical practice to double up on those charges, however, our typical.

K

Practice is to charge $40 for that to not 25. So, thank you. That's that's.

K

Actually really helpful heiko. Thank you guys. I appreciate it.

K

Thank you additional questions. Yes, council members, mister mister, padawan,.

M

When you're speaking before you were talking about the first day, the towing.

M

Can be 2:45 and next day is 260 years all right.

M

And you if we move them a little bit for me yeah, so I tried to email. You guys all.

K

This beforehand- and I don't know what happened but so if we structure the tow.

K

At 135, which matches I you, we would structure the special equipment handling.

K

Which is the same fry you that includes winching? That includes skates, that.

K

Includes dollies includes gojaks, whatever you use and does take special.

K

Care of that car, if you had to you, can charge $35, then you would have the $25.

K

In storage it hits at midnight or the next like the next day. You can't charge.

K

A storage the time it hit your lot and technically. That is also our general.

K

Practice as of right now, we do charge storage as soon as it hits a lot. I'm.

K

Sorry I pay for insurance on it it's by calendar day, I'm not opposed to.

K

Changing that, but a lot of those fees for the storage and in hitting the same.

K

Day is what makes up an administrative charge that we didn't normally charge so.

K

If we're talking about making structure to, to bring clarity and consistency to.

K

Everything I definitely want to help you guys with that. I feel like if we did.

K

Match the 135 to 35 for the dollies 25 for the storage and not let it hit until.

K

The previous day and that's and that's why I was confused for a minute because.

M

It went from like 240 to 265 it's because it's for me adding yeah the.

K

First day would never hit storage if we followed in line with iu so and then the.

K

Second day would add that 25 days of storage, so should be 235 jumped to 260.

K

Another reason, I believe, that's fair, was because again iu gets to ticket like he.

K

Brought up earlier iu has the right to take it $200 for one.

K

Ticket you know, I mean anywhere from 20 to 200. The city does 20 to 100. As far as.

K

I know it's 20 for your first offense. It doubles after seven days if it hasn't.

K

Been paid $40 for the second offense doubles after seven days. If it's not.

K

Paid their defenses $100, so they're, obviously covering their costs with.

K

Tickets, ie obviously covers their cost with tickets so of policing. These lots.

K

So my question is: how does the tow company cover their costs of policing.

K

These lots because if you match it with, I used towing, what's your what you're.

K

Saying is that this is already approved for the tow, not the service that we're.

K

Actually, providing and and when you say, policing the lots that means you're good.

M

You're going out into yes, that means we. That means we have cars that are parked.

M

In front yes, sir yeah, that means we have to drive around waste our field. Our time.

K

And search out all these cars that don't have permits or maybe parked illegally.

K

Or blocking entrances or dumpsters or whatever. The reason may be, that those.

K

Property owners actually give us a written contract, which is our consent to.

K

Enter upon a property on behalf of as an acting agent of that company, that is our.

K

Consent we have that that's regulated by the state law already.

K

And that's allowing us to enter upon those properties and do that policing.

K

They give us a ton of reasons on why they want the car towed. It's our job to.

K

Find those we have a never-ending noto list, which is cars that are allowed on.

K

The property that may not actually have temporary or permanent passes like any.

K

Contractor whether they've been marked or unmarked cars painters, lawn care.

K

People, whatever it is, so they have to go through those lists, there's actually a.

K

Whole lot of administrative issues with that those and the the the programs that.

K

We have to have to keep all that straight, the staff we have to have to.

K

Keep all those things straight and train the drivers, then we also have to a night.

K

Shift staff to release the car within you know that when it when it owner.

K

Wants to pick up their car, we do need to release it within an hour. That's just a.

K

Good business practice, so we also had a night shift. There's a lot of administer.

K

Like that's, where the administrative burden is coming in and it is massive so.

K

If we can't have it in the tow, we got to give it an administrative fee. There's.

K

Got to be a feed built in there to cover our costs. Thank you for x, please. We may.

A

Be getting into other territory, I want to just kind of bring it back to amendment 1, which has to do with the increase in the base towing fee, correct.

A

All right, so any other questions with respect to again, what's in front of us.

A

With amendment 1, we may have other opportunities to get further.

A

Clarification on some of this additional councilmember vote line just to.

D

Understand the total fee again I heard four different charges and I don't know.

D

What the third one was 135 is the tow. There is a dolly or otherwise special.

D

Equipment there is a daily storage fee and an administrative fee, okay, but I.

D

Thought there was something separate from the administrative fee. Is there.

D

More like there's several things and the administrative fee right. The.

K

Administrative fee would cover literally all of our cost, okay and then we'll talk.

D

About that in a moment for I just wanted to yes, I'd heard that there was something so was somewhere earlier in there. You talked about some fee between.

D

Special equipment and daily storage- and I didn't know what that was. Okay, thank.

D

You yep, and I feel like that, will clarify it for the yeah. We'll talk meet.

K

Those cars I additionally questions or any.

A

Clarification from our sponsor- that's remember: simms up at the polka miss.

G

Martin, I can't bearish kins westside towing owner mmm-hmm. Clarity has forced.

N

The prices we've talked a lot about special equipment. A lot of guys have.

N

Brought these up, they take this all this special equipment to do their jobs to do.

N

This and that I haven't done private towing, as per se in this legitimate.

N

Thing in my business, I do a lot of private towing with I you there metered.

N

Parking that they do that's the type of towing I do, which is the exact same.

N

Practices in which they deal with now in same private small parking lots same.

N

Equipment on my trucks, dollies skates special equipment, extra work to get him.

N

Out of spawn small parking lots, he talked about metering the, and I will.

N

Agree with most of what he said, do you guys even know why we use these special.

N

Equipments, for the most part, it's because we have no keys. We had an.

N

Ownership, we have no access to this vehicle, we cannot put it in neutral.

N

We can't assist a roller. We can't turn the steering wheel, so, okay, so protecting.

N

Ourselves, we buy extra equipment to protect us as much as we can as business.

N

Owners to keep from damaging vehicles this skates, they allowed to slide not to.

N

Tear up transmission, the dollies they raise them up off the ground, so they don't slide the tires and tear up transmissions as well. We also don't have.

N

To gain access to the inside of the vehicle, these are the special equipments that are talking about and why we have to use them. It is to protect ourselves.

N

And the consumer as well, because they've got a lot of money in their car. There.

N

That is a huge value, a large asset to them. They take care of it. These are the.

N

Same tools that we've carried on our tow trucks for 30 years, there is no special.

N

Tools nowadays, there may be a couple new things, but it's all the same practices.

N

The prices and fees change- that's part of the towing.

D

Base fee the 135 the base fee with the additional dollars. Okay, I would just.

N

Like to add comment also about that with the 135, I think the 135 is a great price.

N

We talked about policing, parking lots and he mentioned iu and making it a.

N

Subsidiary to that iu does do that they take care of that okay. But if iu student.

N

Doesn't pay for their car iu pays me. They go after the student at.

N

That point in time, not me, they take responsibility that toe these people.

N

With the private towing, if they want and paid for monitoring- and this is just my.

N

Opinion, I agree with everything he says, except for this. If they want it paid for.

N

Policing they should maybe talk about that with their contract holder, their.

N

Property holder, if you want me to police your parking lot, you pay me this amount of dollars to take care of my administration fees. It's.

N

No longer free for the parking for just the property owners. I really honestly.

N

Wish that there was a lot of property owners here that has private towing, who.

N

Could speak on their behalf? I think that's a huge asset for here, but as far.

N

As pricing, I I disagree with that wholeheartedly and I am at over in.

N

Bloomington- and I don't think they should- anybody should have to pay for.

N

The policing of parking lots, they don't know, that's just my opinion. Thank you.

A

Can't remember bowling yeah I mean I'm interested there's at least one property.

D

Owner here, I'd like to hear some sense of how they feel mr. lockley, if you've.

D

Got a minute and mr. carmen might be able to speak on.

D

Behalf of property owners too, but the question is as a property owner. Do you.

D

Mind contracting with a tow company as a separate dollar amount for the policing.

D

Did you did you see his problem? We do things a little differently. Is that our.

H

Staff, we don't allow our tow company to monitor okay, we do our own monitoring so.

H

The a tow can only happen if one of our staff calls in to the tow company thanks.

D

If that helps so, then I asked a question for staff: does staff have a problem with.

D

The price of monitoring be something that's unregulated and.

D

Between the tow company in the private property owner now, that's what what they.

D

Said is at iu, which is a state entity which does it literally has their own.

D

Police force they patrol and monitor their lots and they call in the tow.

D

Company, but in the past we've just assumed that the part of the the the.

D

Cost of a tow, it's the task of monitoring a lot is entirely in the cost.

D

Of the tow and what this gentleman said was that you know maybe that shouldn't.

D

Be that's something that we should expect the property owner to pay a fee.

D

For monitoring does staff care, whether that stays, unregulated or just staff.

D

Want to see that regulated I'd point out, I just I'm trying to wrap my head.

B

Around how the four point 3 to point 1, 3, 0 e, makes it unlawful for a person.

B

Including a tow company or tow truck operator to offer to pay or rebate money.

B

To a the owner of a parking lot for the authority to tow from that lot, I'd say.

D

Doesn't sound to other way around we're talking about, so it doesn't sound like.

B

What you're saying is what's prohibited here right? What I'm asking is it's not.

D

It's not been contemplated. What I'm asking is, if a private property owner.

D

Wants to separately content with a token empty to pay money to the tow company.

D

For monitoring does staff have a problem with that remaining unrelated and.

D

Entirely up to the two entities strikes me as bizarre, and let me explain to you.

F

Why I think that is under the ordinance? The tow company can't serve as the.

F

Entity that fills out the contemporaneous written authorization.

F

That says this vehicle needed to be towed from this lot for x reason that.

F

Needs to be done by somebody other than the tow company, so I suppose, if a.

F

Business owner wanted to pay a tow company to not sign that authorization.

F

And then pay somebody else to sign the authorization, but the tow company would.

F

Police, the lot and not the person, signing the authorization. I guess in a.

F

Way that would be permissible, but it strikes me as strange. You would probably.

F

Hire someone else to be the person who's policing the lot to make sure that, when.

F

A car needs to be towed its towed out. Are they understanding my question.

D

Perhaps I misunderstood here because I don't know that I'm getting it across. I.

E

Was gonna respond to mr. bowman's question, but I have councilmember sims.

A

May want to make some clarifying about the amendment actually what I love.

G

Really like to say is that amendment 1 is about the towing base fee, raising it.

G

From 125 to 135- and I think that was done for two reasons- a because we've.

G

Heard from some of our companies and b is because- and we mention iu but.

G

Understand that that is also the base fee for monroe county and we're being.

G

Consistent so there's no wondering which entity told which fee is which fee so.

G

This is amendment 1. This is raising the the fee 125 the base fee to 135, okay,.

D

Well, the problem is that what's come out of this is like. Why is that fee? The way.

D

It is and well well just that I mean in the case of monroe county and iu, these.

D

Are both agencies with police powers and because they have police powers? They do.

D

Their own monitoring of places where people parked cars illegally. My comment.

G

There is being a 33 year, employee at indiana, university and facilities. The.

G

Process is parking operations that initiates all this, but the point is and.

G

Then parking operations depending on some of their rules, which is multiple.

G

Ticketing will in fact call a upd many times, they'll just give them another.

G

Ticket then they'll, then they'll call iu, pd and.

G

It is them that authorizes the tow parking operations cannot, but they are.

G

The ones that initiate it so I mean I'm, not you're making my point.

G

I'll defer to mr. lucas pardon well, we can debate or directly answer your.

B

Question as I understand it, you're asking if it's okay for property owners.

B

To pay the tow companies to police the lots.

B

Correct outside of the structure of this yes: does the staff have any problem with.

D

That idea, I don't believe the ordinance currently prohibits that the section I.

B

Reference prohibits towing companies from offering to pay or rebating money.

B

To property owners for the right to police, the lots. But I think what your.

B

Suggestion would go the other way and as long as what they're doing doesn't run.

B

Afoul of this ordinance- and it doesn't sound like anything- would be any fees.

B

Would be passed on to the vehicle owner right, I mean that's what I was getting.

D

At this was uncontacted to know his staff, you know had contemplated it and.

D

Not worried about it or whether, now that this idea has come up that this fee is.

D

Normally something that everyone assumed was built into the base fee, which is.

D

What we're debating and, in fact the tow companies are concerned, that this base.

D

Fee only works when the entity their contracting with police is their own lot.

D

And I think you've answered my question that no staff doesn't really care what.

D

Fee, a private property owner contracts with with a tow company for monitoring.

D

Mr. rooker yeah stevens mr. lucas summarized that perfectly, but I did want.

F

To just point out again that there is this contemporaneous written.

F

Authorization requirement and that can't be signed by the tow company so in many.

F

Cases hiring the tow company to be the policing entity will make no sense if.

F

You want to be compliance; in other words, the private property owner still has to.

D

Be able to sign the authorization the minute that the tow company? Well so I'm.

F

Gonna cut you off right, there know somebody other than the tow company, so it could be a security guard, it could be any age and it can't be the tow company.

F

But it could be any agent of the property owner and again the idea here.

F

Is that one of the practices we'll see is tow companies.

F

With non-consensual tows going around and trying to identify vehicles in.

F

Nearly empty lots and to tow those away- and we get a lot of complaints about.

F

That you know I was there for a very short period of time. It appears somebody.

F

Was hawking a lot just just looking at it, and then I got charged. You know two.

F

Hundred and seventy dollars- and it was an empty lot, so this is again a consumer.

F

Protection provision- that's the point behind this particular provision, but I.

F

Think we've gotten pretty far afield from amendment one and I feel like I'm.

F

Defending other parts of the ordinance I wish it hadn't gotten so far. I.

D

Appreciate the answer, so do you have clarification on the amendment one? I.

A

Just wanted to clarify that when I brought this information up, I just.

N

Wanted to be understood that I think these prices are fair and just for what.

N

The practices are being done to try to keep these prices fair for the consumers.

N

That's actually being towed, that's the whole biggest thing. If these people want.

N

To go into a contracted rate with the to private towing company to have their.

N

Property, policed and so on and so forth. I think maybe they should amend their.

N

Contract with their customer and build the basis for them to actually come out.

N

And do what they want. If that's, if that's what they want, that's fine and agree with it, and I don't think cities had any problems with it to the.

N

Point where we're going to try to keep the price as a minimum, where people can.

N

Still actually afford to pay it. That's the whole reason. We've done this in my.

N

Opinion, I think, that's why the prices are way you got upset.

N

That's just thank you. Councilmember play harder. You had your hand up a while ago.

A

You still have a question or a concern: okay, come to memphis myth clarify what mr. rucker has said a couple of times now. If.

C

There isn't, there is an exception for private property. That's residential.

C

We're in section four point 3 to point one: zero: zero d: if the parking lot is.

C

For multifamily rental dwelling, which provides permit parking for 24 hours, a.

C

Day, seven days a week and they issue a certain permit or hangtag for other.

C

Tenants then they can hire a towing company. That's that's correct, and this.

B

Might go to mr. locke. Lee's concerns residential rental dwelling unit, a.

B

Multi-Family dwelling unit like that, can have the tow companies act as agent. They.

B

Can police the lot and tow from that lot without needing the written.

B

Authorization from the lot owner they can fill that paperwork out themselves.

B

I believe in discussing with legal, we believe the same would be true for a.

B

Mixed-Use development for the residential portion, so if there are.

B

Spots reserved for the residents of that development, the same would apply to to.

B

That as well, thank you councilmember simms. Thank you. There was a gentleman.

G

And want to address something about the iu schedule. I mean we're doing back and.

G

Forth so I just want to get her on the chance. So no you're fine are you parking.

J

Ops initiate stowing as well max stryker, again stryker towing, there's.

J

Two different ease there. I you pd, contracted with I'm, not contracted with.

J

The parking ops they're supposed to share information- they did not, as I.

J

Found out today, after about an hour and five minutes on the phone trying to get.

J

A car back to a gentleman that was initiated through iu pd that parking.

J

Office is not aware of until I made them aware of it, so that the agencies are not.

J

Corresponding on their end and and that's got nothing to do with us, we were.

J

Just called hey come tow this car, this particular.

J

Vehicle was blocking a bus lane. There was a lot of stuff going on over by the.

J

School music today to get the information that were required to give.

J

That car back to him, the owner of the vehicle that called it it took about 45.

J

Minutes on hold with between the bursar's office, I think so you say that.

J

Iu pd and the parking offs, only one of which knew the vehicle was even towed.

J

And this is within an hour, so those agencies aren't communicating which.

J

Doesn't have anything to do with us, but they initiate their own towing.

J

At anytime, so it's two separate it's under the same contract, but it's two.

J

Separate entities calling for those toes if I'm not mistaken, so okay. Thank you. My.

G

Comment comes after that and I don't really want to get into a long debate.

G

With that one of the changes with indiana university- and I wonder state on.

G

This amendment is that the office is not centralized in bloomington and our.

G

Parking lot really has to go through vermont street at iupui campus, so that.

G

May explain some of the miscommunication between entities, but that really doesn't.

G

Go to the base fee that we want to make consistent with all the entities already.

G

And please remember the title of this when we started was predatory, towing.

G

Okay and there's examples where we're getting complaints, we're trying to.

G

Fashion, this, so that we don't want to talk companies to lose money, but we.

G

Think we're trying to figure out what's fair. But I also know- and I gave an.

G

Example last week in an empty lot, two cars there, the car, gets towed of the.

G

Woman, that's in church with me and it costs her $230.

G

Now you negotiate that down to $200 is what they let her get her car for, but.

G

This was about 40 minutes time, so we're just trying to this is not accusing any.

G

Company, this is a verifiable example that I'm using so we're just trying to.

G

Get away from the predatory part and we I agreed to the changing of the rules so.

G

We could have some different debate and what we talked about before I'm planning.

G

This, so you know not really disputing anything, but a lot of the research and.

G

The legal parts we've kind of done- we just want to get more inclusive if at.

G

All possible all right at this point: are there additional questions before we go.

A

To council comments, question council members: can we.

A

Well sure what it is it's a question to mr. lucas: could you please put up the.

L

Slide again that talks about the specific practices we're trying to.

L

Discourage because I think council member simbah springs up a really good.

L

Point we're not opposed to towing we're opposed to the predatory, so this is the.

L

Litmus test, I think, for every amendment decision we make so thank you. Could you.

L

Leave that up as much as possible all right.

A

Are we to a point where council is ready to make comments? Are we still in.

A

Question time all right comments, councilmember bola, so I've been.

D

Trying to clarify well: where does the base fee come from? I know that customer.

D

Simms wanted to make it consistent with iu in the nerve county, and you know it.

D

Seemed pretty straightforward at first, but then the question of I mean, like I.

D

Have learned an awful lot about toying by the way I lived in town manor in that.

D

Place used to tell behind the bluebird, I've had four bouncers from the bluebird.

D

Move a car out of my my reserved spot and it was hard. It was hard as heck to.

D

Get anybody to come and toast us, I'm glad you have the fancy dollies and.

D

Stuff to do it now, although I don't live there anymore, but I was trying to get to.

D

What is that main fee for, and you know I've learned tonight that we used to.

D

Take for granted as people who either have our car towed or are looking to tow.

D

Somebody's car that monitoring was something we just took for granted. You.

D

Know- and I don't take it for granted anymore, I can see the logic behind a.

D

Private property owner, like our property, would have would have been gladly paid a.

D

Monitoring fee to get the cars out of the spots, because it's such a tight.

D

Place back in a town manor- and I still feel very strongly about that, so it.

D

Helps me to understand that the tophi, the 135, that there.

D

Four is just the task, the physical task of moving in, and that we need to think.

D

Differently, although I'm happy to report that staff doesn't seem to care that.

D

That is not built that that contract that separate contract is not built into.

D

The tophi, we don't have to worry about it because you know, I think that made a.

D

Difference and that's why I was asking those questions. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Councilmember sims, thank you. My response to that is that this body that we're.

G

Sitting on passed the city initiated toe ordinance and decided $125 fee and that.

G

Is the way the ordinance reads today? What we're talking about now and which.

G

Will amend that fee is up to 135, which is consistent with the other entities, so.

G

I'm not so sure what you want me to do and say well, $3 is for that in $7 is for.

G

That and this equals up to 135, we think that is a fair and reasonable basis.

G

Which is what we passed in the city initiated tolls. I am simply asking that.

G

We raise that to 135. My thought would to somehow aid the towing companies, but.

G

More importantly, to make it consistent with the other towing entities and.

G

Non-Consensual tolls in the county, so I hope that way. If it didn't answer, I.

G

Don't know whether we can defer to legal, it was separate point. I appreciate the.

D

Explanation, additional final comments from council. Second, all right, it's been.

A

Recommended and seconded will the clerk. Please call the outside with my right.

A

And we'll do a move? Do pass? Yes! Yeah? Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes, all right!.

A

And then that one passes we are now ready for lumber how that was. That was.

A

um Thank you, madam chair move, do pass amendment number two of organiz 2003.

A

It's been moved in second, and will you please present? Thank you.

G

What this ordinance does and I'll read it.

G

Ordinance 20-0 three section one shall amend shall be amended by adding a new.

G

Subsection d to section 4.3, 2.06 o, which is non-consensual toe lice, tow business.

G

License application. The new subsection shall read as follows, and this is part d.

G

Denial or renewal of license the license administrator may decline to issue or.

G

Renew a license issued under this chapter if the license and ministry.

G

Administrator finds one the applicant has previously violated in any provision.

G

Of this chapter and has issued either an official warning or has been subject to.

G

Any of the penalties listed under bloomington municipal code, 4.32 0.160, a.

G

Or number two the applicant has been previously found to be in violation of.

G

Any other similar law promulgated by a different governmental entity or a.

G

Number three: the applicant has previously had a license issued under.

G

This chapter suspended or revoked all right. Are there any questions for mr.

A

Simms or for anyone with respect to ordinance amendment to county member.

D

Bowen I'd like to know what staff and tow companies think of it. I didn't hear.

D

I'd like to just hear what staff and tow companies think the.

F

Just to jump in for staff, you know to some extent this was a bit of an.

F

Oversight on our part in the original draft drafting of this ordinance, it was.

F

Always our intention to reserve the right for the license administrator to.

F

Deny a license to a bad actor, so this just cleans up the ordinance to grant.

F

That authority to a license to the license administrator, all right.

A

Additional questions from council.

A

Council member bowen.

A

If there are no additional questions from council, we will go to the public to.

A

Make a statement on amendment my name's mike armand: I'm not a tow company.

O

Do not speak for tow companies, but I don't like this amendment at least the.

O

Issue: you've elevated a warning as they're caused for non-renewal. Why, if it.

O

Was a warning: why would that dow be call it become independently a cause for.

O

Non-Renewal, because that's what it says isn't that wishy it was shown on the air.

O

So we could point to it: jim read it, but as I've heard it, it was the.

O

Administrator could deny ever newell because the company had a prior warning.

O

That just elevated the warning to the fence, thank you. Are there additional.

A

Comments at this point from the public and again state your name and sign in.

A

Please my name is jacob pat on again, I'm trying.

K

To keep a really professional stance here, but this is very quickly becoming.

K

What seems to be like an agenda of certain tow companies and the city, and I.

K

Feel like it's a I feel like this ordinance is attacking and trying to.

K

Prevent certain companies from conducting business in this town, 100%.

A

Thank you. Anyone else would like to make a statement.

P

Hello, my name is devin king, I'm not affiliated in any way with a towing.

P

Company, but I would just like to say that this men that seemed like it left a.

P

Lot of arbitrary decision making up to administrators for deciding the.

P

Appropriate punishment for a tow company found in violation, and I think that we.

P

Could benefit from a more more structured representation of what the.

P

Punishments would be for repeated offenses rather than leaving it up to.

P

The discretion of administrators in this case, and that's all I had to say thank.

P

You thank you additional public comment.

Q

Martin poteet, I don't know where to start. I want to keep it just directly to.

Q

This regulation part a lot of you, I don't know, understand the extent of.

Q

House bill 1183 and how extensive and comprehensive it is, and literally a lot.

Q

Of what you're trying to regulate is already there and we have the attorney.

Q

General's office to go to when there's complaint, very powerful, knowledgeable entity pretty much the part that is being added.

Q

Is the max fee that would is kind of left out of the state law? Because it's.

Q

Customary and reasonable very important to address that. That's allowing some of.

Q

The predator towing most definitely have a major issue with the 20% thing, we'll.

Q

Address that at the proper time, but the other side of this is a lot of this- is.

Q

Adopted and copied from the state law, which already exists, is already there.

Q

Already enforced, all of the entities needed to do so arthur what you're.

Q

Adding is regulation and even to a private industry, we need the annapolis.

Q

Adopted their ordinance, this is a community. I'm gonna ask debate over okay.

Q

A lot of people will go with that, also probably close to a thousand towing.

Q

Companies and there was an absolute dire need for regulation. The issues were huge.

Q

How many of you know how many towing companies they're in bloomington about.

Q

20, how many do private towing about five to seven? Do we need a nuclear bomb.

Q

Weapon to regulate five to seven companies when the state of indiana.

Q

Already does very well, you need a very few amendments. You don't need to do all.

Q

This regulation, you need all of this- to control five to seven companies. This is.

Q

Like extends and my concern for it is and why we have.

Q

Been pushing for an interactive conversation is we're aware that you.

Q

Have very little knowledge and experience on this situation and there.

Q

Has been, although our mayor's agenda is noble and many amazing things have been.

Q

Done he has been using his legal department to attack anyone who objects.

Q

His agenda, the administration and I will address this in our discussion period.

Q

But I want to make you aware, has been hostile and unfair and has used these.

Q

Type of things to attack this industry, I will address that at the proper time. I.

Q

Wanted to address the regulation thing is, there is plenty of tools to handle.

Q

This so it would seem that the need and drive from the administration and your.

Q

Legal department is a weapon instead of almost lazy. You can call the department.

Q

Of transportation, absolute professionals in making sure d-o-t licensing and.

Q

Everything is there, we have the state of indiana and remember what happened with.

Q

The a mayor's initiative to go after people in the county, who didn't have the.

Q

Ability and money to fight off this entity when the mayor stated in his.

Q

Argument about the state of indiana getting involved in local affairs was.

Q

Almost to the level of hypocrisy, what was he doing to the members of the.

Q

County, although the mayor represents the city and it would have benefited the.

Q

City, but I want to show you a stance of why we are so concerned that we want to.

Q

Make sure that the entities enforcing this and the entity is handing out the.

Q

Fees have massive oversight, make sure the judicial systems be included and.

Q

Make sure, especially in the license and appeals aspect, what we suggested is a.

Q

License toto tell me be part of that for the purpose of fairness and to give and let that appeals process know what could be.

Q

A mistake and what cannot be if I get outside the scope of this comment.

Q

Session, please let me know, but I want to instill to you what our concern is is.

Q

Basically, we are absolutely amazed of the interest and time you have dedicated.

Q

To make sure we are treated fairly amazing, thank you. I will dress the rest.

Q

Of this at the proper time, thank you. Anyone else have anything. In addition,.

A

About this particular matt striker again here, I don't have an issue with the.

J

License fee, I believe that you guys have it in there around 350, roughly a dollar.

J

A day- and it seems pretty legitimate to conduct business in this town, so you get.

J

That from let's call it half of the towing companies in bloomington city.

J

Commerce, 3500 bucks give or take and again if you want to just address us for.

A

Now: okay, sure that any good, so the city gets a roughly $3,500 for our licensing.

J

However, non-consensual tony is not the only aspect of my business. We do.

J

Participate in this type of towing, but not predatory, we also handle emergency.

J

Breakdown insurance, so, who is to say that the warnings that are issued become.

J

Offenses that revoke our licenses or suspend them, who monitors that who.

J

Determines what vehicles we tow are our consensual or non-consensual? Who is.

J

Somebody going to watch us tow every vehicle in town we tow. I have a very.

J

Small company three drivers, five trucks: we do about 45.

J

Tows a day consensual- and we do maybe two to three at most a day for.

J

Non-Consensual towing off private property and that's that's kind of a.

J

High figure there's slower days of the week so who determines what toes that.

J

We're doing are against this policy. Are you guys gonna hire somebody to watch me.

J

Watch mr. padawan or mr. parrish mr. hawkins.

J

Mr. james, that seems like a lot of work to put in to suspend our right to tow in.

J

The town I'm not really clear what the suspension entails. Am I not allowed to.

J

Do business in this town, or am I not allowed to tow off private properties or.

J

What's to say, I enter a contract that property that mr. padawan has with mr.

J

Locke lee's property for mr. locke, lee's resident that lives there who determines.

J

That I'm there to tow that car for a reason I'm there to tow it is somebody gonna say: hey, are you done and then I have to answer to who exactly are any of.

J

You planning on being there at the time of the tow and, as I said, I'm a small.

J

Company, I'm sure mr. parish does closer to a hundred and something toes or.

J

Services a day so who determines what we're doing when we're doing it and why.

J

We're doing it so I'm very curious as to how you plan on monitoring this.

J

Particular amendment to warn offend and revoke and suspend, I think you should.

J

Strike this entirely from your agenda. Honestly again, I don't have a problem.

J

Paying the city virtually a dollar a day to conduct business here.

J

That seems fair, I guess there's other businesses that have to pay that food.

J

Trucks and such as I read in an article I don't know if there's anything else,.

J

But I just don't see the point in in in and how you're going to enforce that and.

J

Who enforces it is bloomington police department, gonna, say hey, we think you.

J

Did this too illegally? Now you can't tell in this town anymore or how does.

J

That read, so what is this entail? Who monitors it? Who enforces it and who.

J

Decides what car I told you at this point. I think we have heard enough to be.

A

Able to ask additional questions and have a more interactive discussion here.

A

Anyone have any questions: councilmember, rollo questions evolved from the.

R

Statements made by the tow companies first of all is this amendments.

R

Amendment to there's a duplicate state code is this redundant in some way. Okay,.

R

And then, regarding the license administrator. To what extent does the.

R

License administrator review every tow, or is this like a complaint driven.

R

Process I mean: how is how is that the towing reviewed, I guess, to the.

B

Administration, I will point out that the license administrator under this.

B

Ordinance is the director of economic and sustainable development or his or.

B

Her designee they're, the ones that are named as license administrator so I'll.

B

Defer to the administration as to how that will play out just so, I can clarify.

F

Your question you're asking about enforcement- I think here is that right.

F

Well, specifically about this, this amendment and revocation of licenses and.

R

So forth does is this: I mean the detail, work of.

R

Reviewing every toe probably will not happen, will it or by the by the license.

R

Administrator, and in is this a complaint driven process, in other words, is, it is.

R

It is this somebody complained. This has been that they're in violation of city.

R

Policy, and is that, does that initiate an action? How does this go? How is this.

R

Enforced, in other words, I think that's exactly right. You know we have a number.

F

Of licensing regimes that have been set up by this body, in conjunction with the.

F

Administration or various administrations over time, and they are complaint, driven processes. Of course you know we don't have the resources to go.

F

Around monitoring, every toe or every food truck or every scooter on the.

F

Street or every taxicab so generally we find out from a consumer that somebody's.

F

Engaged in a practice that doesn't smell right and then when we do an.

F

Investigation, we'll identify a violation. So that's exactly right. Yes, is there an.

R

Appeal process in the investigation: exactly: how is that, of course, their.

R

Licenses revoked, of course, there's an appeal process as well. I don't.

F

I think mr. lucas could speak to that or I can I'll, let him sure so under section.

B

Four point: three two point: one: six: zero. It specifies when the license.

B

Administrator can suspend or revoke a license, and I think when mr. rooker was.

B

Referencing a clean up, he was referencing this section, which.

B

Authorizes the suspension or revocation but didn't touch on renewal or issuance.

B

Of the license in the first place, so this amendment largely just mirrors what.

B

The license administrator is authorized to do. It might seem odd for the license.

B

Administrator to be able to suspend or revoke but then as soon as the new year.

B

Rolls around they would have to renew that license and wait for further violations. So that's the that's the idea behind it. Any adverse decision by the.

B

License administrator would be appealable to the board of public works.

B

As an administrative remedy and then beyond that to the court system,.

B

I say thank you, councilmember smith, did you have a.

A

Question or need clarification if, if there's yes, thank you, madam chairman, if.

M

There's a way to clean up the amendment to so that it further explains to.

M

Everyone, what warned or fined or under what conditions a license may be revoked.

M

Is there a way to make it more obvious how that works so that it doesn't sound.

M

So it sounds a little vague at this point. I don't want to speak too much on.

B

Behalf of the sponsor or the administration, but I certainly think.

B

That any clarification that doesn't change the the purpose of the amendment.

B

Would probably be supported if it just helps clarify for everyone, but depending.

B

On what the specific change was, I'd have to defer to the sponsoring and what he.

B

Yeah, but certainly council members are welcome to propose amendments as they.

B

See fit specific change, I'm not sure, and I think we've established they are.

G

Complaint driven and then there is a an appeals process through board of public.

G

Works after the licensing of the s&d, but the licensing fee have all the rules and.

G

Regulations entailed, and that is the licensing fee. I would like to go back to.

G

Something I was said earlier: you don't get suspended by just having a warning.

G

Now I would like for you to read that again it says number one, then d deny or.

G

Non-Renewal, the license number one the applicant has previously violated any.

G

Provision of this chapter pause and then it says an has been issued either an.

G

Official warning, or has been subject to any, of the penalties listed under.

G

Bloomington municipal code, so I think it's not.

G

Clear- or it's not been characterized properly with what this actually says,.

G

And that is not the intent and I have other comments, but I think that address.

G

What we're thinking about here, yeah you're, welcome council member boland all right, so this is kind of a rhetorical question that.

D

I'd like the sponsor to verify, but just to be clear number one. This ordinance is.

D

For a license for towing businesses, non-consensual towing, so it's not a.

D

License for any kind of towing it's just if they want to take part in.

D

Non-Consensual towing, if they have to get a license, that's right. Isn't it well.

G

There is a licensing process or city initiated toes as well. Those are.

G

Licensed are we or we do that through? Let me potential well, let me let me jump.

B

In yes, is the answer to your question. This yes, licensing scheme only applies.

B

To non-consensual tows initiated within the city, non-consensual tows has a.

B

Specific definition in the ordinance, so it doesn't effect, consensual, towing that.

D

Companies do with private entities correct one number two so number two.

D

Just to verify what customer simms said in order for denial or non-renewal of.

D

The license to be a possibility, the person applying or renewing, has to have.

D

Already violated a provision of the non-consensual tow business license.

D

Ordinance and has had to get another warning or another violation. Fine am I.

D

Understanding that correctly, so it's not like just any warning. It's a warning.

D

After they've already violated at once is that correct? That is one of the three.

G

Sections that this entail was one of them one of the three. Well, let me let me.

B

Clarify so far, they d one in the amendment, was written so that an.

B

Applicant who has violated the ordinance, has to have received a.

B

Statement from the city that says, you violated the ordinance, so it's not.

D

Simply that they violation comes with a fine right, it can be an official warning.

B

Or a fine as written okay, so somebody can have gotten a warning and then they.

D

Can get a second warning, and that will be enough to deny them. I think, as.

B

Written one warning would be enough to deny them: okay, no under d 1, it says the.

D

Applicant has previously violated any provision of this chapter, so either a.

D

Warning or a penalty and has been issued? Oh so it's not that I think the point is.

B

The applicant who has violated the ordinance has to have either received an.

B

Official warning or fine the force this would apply. So that's not what I think.

D

Counselor simms said is that was that your intent, mr. simms, about our red d1.

G

Do you want that? Yes, in other words, so okay so d1 are, is the tow company.

D

Correct when they say that just one warning is enough to be grounds for.

D

Denial of a license or a renewal of a license. Well, I think it's possible and.

G

I'll, let legal address that, but I will say this: that is all part of the appeals.

G

Processes where facts would be addressed in that session, the city would have.

G

Their position and the person has been fined would have an opportunity to.

G

Appeal and bring the facts and then that's when the decision. This is not an.

G

Automatic you got a warning, you're denied! It's not that I understand that.

D

Okay, I'm just trying to understand that even one violation of a provision of.

D

This chapter even does not result in a penalty, is enough for the administrator.

D

The license administrator to deny a renewal of a license, and they would then.

D

Have to go to both board of public works. Is that your intent I'll give it to leo.

F

I just jump in really quickly and I don't want to use language. That's too,.

F

Strong, but that would be really an impossible sort of this. Just a.

F

Ridiculous set of facts that would never happen. The idea behind issuing warnings.

F

Which is something that is extremely routine is education. It's to say, look we.

F

Believe that you stepped out of line there was no bad intent here. Let's talk.

F

About what the rules are, let's learn what the rules on non-consensual, towing.

F

Are that's a particularly important tool in an industry like this? That's so.

F

Dynamic where people come and go from the industry all the time we have new.

F

People coming into town and performing towing companies leaving all the time.

F

And so we would never ever say we're revoking your license, which is really.

F

The most extreme tool in our toolbox, based on an official warning, that's just.

F

Required to provide education to that particular entity. Now we do want to.

F

Bring that up, if we end up in an appeal in front of the board of public works or after the board of public works in front of the monroe circuit court, we want to.

F

Be able to say yes, we issued warnings than we issue fines and we got to the.

F

Point where we just really couldn't have this company doing business here anymore,.

S

And if I tried to argue in front of the board of public works that we ought to.

F

Revoke a license based on simply a warning. They would laugh me out of out.

F

Of this room every single time, this is not providing reassurance to anyone.

D

Who's affected by this this says the license administrator may decline to.

D

Issue or renew a license issued under this chapter, if the license.

D

Administrator finds one the applicant has previously violated any provision of.

D

This chapter and has been issued either an official warning or a fine. It's I'm.

D

Reading the plain language here- and it says that one warning is enough for the.

D

Mission tonight now you may want to reassure us that we would never do that.

D

Why can't you put that in writing? Well, I will tell you this: you can write it.

F

However, you guys want to write it. It's your initiative, but mister carmen would fight me on that. Revocation and he'd win every time at the board of public works.

F

100%, that would be his win percentage. Their salary.

D

How do we know that experience counts? Remember, flay hardy. Do you have a.

A

Comment and then I do want to hear I do want to hear. I would just suggest that.

E

If the administration feels confident that a warning would never lead to this.

E

Why don't we change the language for the comfort of those in the industry to say.

E

A minimum of two warnings, removal warning and a fine another instant. I.

E

Mean I I, sir, please just just yeah: that's really it I'm I'm open to.

E

Amending this amendment to clarify that a single warning would not be the reason.

E

For denial of a license, I think it's fair to say that the people here or the.

A

Stakeholders are feeling that this is onerous. This is a little bit a step too.

A

Far, and so I think the question then for us is, would we accept some amendment.

A

Language in here to clarify and make it not seem, like you know, a minimal offense.

A

Would lead to something pretty drastic councilmember ball, I feel like we have.

D

Maybe identified the primary concern with this amendment and while I want to.

D

Hear from the sponsor, I would suggest that if he doesn't object to adding a.

D

Second layer, where there's you know because of the way I read it had been.

D

They had previously violated and then they wore it got a second warning or.

D

Violation that if he were amenable to that that we could amend it before it.

D

Was introduced next week that it could be done not that it not be done tonight.

D

But it could be done. I can accept that if that's supported by our legal staff.

G

And what I do want to say, if I may add part of this, is to ensure that we can.

G

Can have some control over bad actors and just to say a simple warning. There.

G

Are multiple different violations that we're talking about and one or several.

G

Are much more egregious than others if it's proven, if that's the the.

G

Accusation or the the fine and then it's through appeals and one of those example.

G

Well, well, no, that's this! This is relevant because if you say that there.

D

Are major and minor offenses? No, I didn't say that I say there are some that once.

G

They are charged and then go to appeals depending for an example- and this is not.

G

Toward anyone, but let's say that there were getting one, that's close to close.

G

To assault or harassment over this vehicle now that is one example as.

G

Opposed to my vehicle got scratched and and that's for the appeals process and.

G

The licensing administrator wants, it has been brought up and then dealt with and.

G

Appealed so you're describing what my ears are major and minor. I.

G

Said I'm amenable to that. If okay legal supports that I've already said that the.

B

Intent of the council and the administration that simply striking has.

B

Been issued either an official warning or may accomplish what what the council.

B

Wants so that the amendment would read, the applicant has previously vide it.

B

Violated any provision of this chapter and has been subject to any of the.

B

Penalties listed under the penalties provision, so that mean they would have.

B

To have received a fine previously before so you're saying a warning would.

D

Not trigger this, but a fine would correct. Okay, is that the the general.

D

Consensus of the tow companies that that's more acceptable.

Q

Agree with what they just said would be helpful. In my opinion, kay, I needed a.

Q

Small clarification on the licensing that, if you meet conditions that the.

Q

License is automatically issued that there should be no approval or denial or.

Q

Opinion of any city official in that settle the criteria if it's met the.

Q

License is automatically issued. Yes, if I want to make sure that is, is.

Q

Clear, mr. rooker, you say no. If they have not violated part d here, one two or.

D

Three, do they not get a permit? Yes, that's right! Okay, so that's it that.

D

Clarifies that question council member rallo regarding mr. lucas's proposal for.

R

Amendment I wondered if we could have that in writing. If we're going to review.

R

And potentially give it a due pass recommendation this evening in writing.

B

I'm happy to distribute it if you need me to, but it would simply strike, has.

B

Been issued either an official warning or from the from the amendment yeah. I.

R

Wouldn't I would sponsor that mr. sherman, do you do nothing.

T

S

A

Councilmember flay hardy, I'm looking at section 4.3 two point: one: six: zero.

E

Penalties and revocation of license- and this question wait for legal hi. There.

E

Just looking at what constitutes a warning versus what constitutes a fine.

E

It looks like, in the event of a violation of any provision of the.

E

Chapter either a warning or a fine could be instant instituted in either case.

E

It's um or either could be instituted in the event of a violation of a provision.

E

Is that a correct reading, it's not the warning is required before you could.

E

Ever get to a fine, correct, the first action of the city doesn't.

B

Have to be more warning, it can be a fine okay, and I think I imagine that's like a.

E

Descript will is it anticipated that that would be discretionary based on the.

E

Sort of severity of based on the offense that you're talking about that's up to.

B

The license administrator to determine whether a warning is is warranted. Yes,.

B

Okay, so, okay, well we're waiting for that and writing. You have another comment: may.

A

I guess from legal standpoint the reason that they're trying to push this.

K

Licensing agreement is because of predatory, towing or price gouging or.

K

Practices of such that doesn't, as far as I know that doesn't happen here and I.

K

Believe that nobody would bring that to your guys's attention more than a.

K

Competing tow company, so if a fellow towe're.

K

Like he used me, for example, earlier, if I heard that he charged somebody a.

K

Thousand dollars to get their car back on the first day, I would bring that to.

K

Somebody's attention every towe're here that actually practices this type of.

K

Towing is actually very reasonably priced in the same area and as simms.

K

Said earlier, this is for control and that's what I'm trying to get you guys.

K

To understand, it seems like they're trying to control who conducts this.

K

Business and how they do it and the state law is already very clear on what.

K

Is breaking the law? What predatory, towing is what price gouging is and does.

K

The city not already have control. If you break a law, you can get.

K

Is that not enough control? I mean this seems ridiculous to try to find people.

K

An astronomical amount, twenty-five hundred dollars. Seventy five hundred, I.

K

Didn't even read that part cause. It drives me insane, but the point is who.

K

Controls what the hell that price is: that's not fair to anybody. If you know.

K

We're getting regulated to prices, we already can't afford and then you're.

K

Gonna take a warning and if we get a warning for one simple accident, what you.

K

Guys can understand too, is that that's not always the owner of the company's fault. There's drivers that may not be fully educated, yet they're still in training with your best way to learn, is hands-on.

K

You can't argue that some people can't just read a book and learn something so.

K

Mistakes will be made. The point is they're gonna wait for one and yank it.

K

They're gonna yank that permit, and that's that's just how I feel about it.

K

Okay, thank you. If I could just make a comment, I'm not set a whole lot about.

A

This I would hope that the clarification up here from our staff and from the.

A

Sponsor would be that no one is looking for bad actors. No one is looking for an.

A

Opportunity to run a honest good, you know, you're playing by the book towing.

A

Company out of business, especially since there, what about twenty in the whole.

A

City in about six or seven that do this kind of work that we're all here to talk.

A

About and so anything we can do in this language to make that clear, but this is.

A

Not an out to get you gotcha kind of thing, but it is in place for as.

A

I think what I heard the sponsors say: should there be a bad actor that is.

A

Grievously breaking the laws, disregarding fines and would certainly.

A

Be a candidate for having a license revoked, but that is not what this body.

A

Or our administrative staff is intending to do with this legislation. Is that in.

A

Any way clarify about the project, I understand the direction you're going in.

K

And I would like to see that be the agenda. But from what I'm understanding.

K

As councilmember sims mentioned earlier, somebody just towed from a church even.

K

Though, there's only two cars in that lot, whatever the problem is, we have a state.

K

Regulated contract now, obviously, that's not my church. I.

K

Don't charge to 30, but if we have a state regulated contract that already.

K

Gives us the consent to go in and police that property as the property owner sees.

K

Fit so a trespasser is a trespasser. If that's on the list that says they want.

K

You towed there because you're parked there after hours or they want youto there, because you're double-parked some places tell if you take up two parking spaces. You know what I mean it's just whatever their agenda is and whatever.

K

Their requirements are that's what we follow. So when you call it predatory.

K

Towing to tow somebody, because there's only two lots or two two cars and maybe.

K

A 30 person parking space or something I don't know, but that's not predatory.

K

Towing predatory towing is like, for example, interstate towing in.

K

Indianapolis one of the major reasons they passed an ordinance in indianapolis.

K

Colts games, obviously huge huge traffic comes through that town. There's several.

K

Abandoned lots that such an industrial city, I don't think you can find an.

K

Abandoned lot in bloomington anymore, so this isn't even really a great example.

K

For here, but the point is that they found abandoned lots, they went up there.

K

Cars parked there for the colts game or something like that. They show up a.

K

Signage zib zib, zib, zib, zib, zib zib right into those poles, and then they tow.

K

Hundreds of cars immediately the same day, everybody comes back and they're.

K

Like well, there weren't signs here earlier. Well now they got to prove it.

K

But the point is by state law: that's protected already as well, because the.

K

Signage has to be posted for 24 hours before you can even conduct business for.

K

That private law towing, that is an example of what predatory, towing, is and.

K

In bloomington we don't have that, I mean we just don't, and I I just want to make.

K

Sure you guys understand what a predatory practice is, because I actually take it very a very, very offensive that we get grouped into that.

K

And the fact that the papers calling us a predatory, towing ordinance because.

K

It's not what this is. Okay, if councilmember sims would like to address.

A

G

I will say I'm not happy that some of the companies with the broad language.

G

Takes it personally, as if we're talking to individual companies, no one here has.

G

Accused anyone of anything that I'm hearing this is an ordinance and it is.

G

To control and protect our most vulnerable citizens against what has.

G

Been overtime, predatory, towing practices, so we can debate that all day long, but.

G

The fact of the matter is that that is part of what this ordinance was intended.

G

By the previous councillors, andy ruff and dorothy granger and they weren't.

G

Reelected this been talked about even in last year, and I agreed to carry this.

G

Forward because I believe in what it stands for and protecting the most.

G

Vulnerable in our community, as someone said earlier, every company is different.

G

Every company is different. We have so many different people in this town in.

G

Different income levels and one set of what you considered fair, I don't.

G

Consider it fair for everybody involved. This is a town of haves and have-nots.

G

This don't have anything to do with you all as companies, but what we're trying.

G

To do is make it fair so that when you make tolls, then you you know you can.

G

Make a living we're not trying to stifle commerce. There's the issue of due.

G

Process a lot of what we're doing here was modeled and we researched the.

G

Indianapolis ordinance and what they do now, not everything, because it's.

G

Different, but in particularly from the legalities, that's one of the things that.

G

We've checked into so we've we think or me as the sponsor thinks I should say.

G

That this is fair. I just heard someone else say they did 42 toes toes is what I.

G

Heard if it's $100 at oh, that's $4,200, he said I did 42 in one day now I don't.

G

Really get you can do a, however many and make as much money as you can as long as.

G

It's equitable across the board and that's all we're saying, there's been.

G

Some things said: I don't want, I'm not even going to. I mean I've heard some.

G

Things about the administration and some other things, that's not what this is.

G

About you know so, and I'm just addressing this.

G

Is about fair and equitable and I will go so far. As I say, social justice, the.

G

Social equity, some people in this town- we just can't they cannot afford to do.

G

That their paycheck to paycheck, that's why there are certain provisions within.

G

The ordinance that they can get their vehicles and there's still a mechanism.

G

That you all can be compensated, we're not trying to get away from that. I mean.

G

Your that, what's fair, is fair, so you know that's kind of what we're looking.

G

At but there was a time in my life if my vehicle got towed and I'm not.

G

Challenging that, because, if I park illegally, I probably deserve to be told.

G

But if I go to pick up my vehicle- and I can't get my vehicle because I can't.

G

Afford it now, I can't go to work now. I can't earn.

G

Money now I can't pay you to get my car back. I might lose my job. I know that's.

G

An outside scenario, but it is one of the true things that happens in this town.

G

And those are the type of things that we're trying to avoid and let you still.

G

Run a good business and make a decent living. You know when I use the tow truck.

G

It's triple a cop, I'll call triple-a and they send probably one of you guys.

G

Company, I don't know what they get paid. I don't know that all that stuff I just.

G

Know that I pay them fee as my agent and that contracts with someone else that.

G

Come take care of our needs, so, okay, that's kind of all, I'm going to say.

G

About that so chair thing, I'd like to make a couple more comments and I'm.

K

Actually, I don't I'll, let other companies and people answer questions.

K

I'm getting quite frustrated to be honest, but can you not lose your job for.

K

Not paying any other bill in your life, if I don't pay my water bill, I don't get.

K

Water, if I don't get a like, if I don't pay my electric bill, I don't get to have lights on. If I don't have gas to get to work, I can't go to a gas station and say.

K

Hey man I got 20%, then we can fine answer as to that for the next month and.

K

A half it just doesn't make sense. Secondly, as far as the complaints right.

K

This is all funded on well fat, founded, sorry, on complaint department. You said.

K

That's how it was built, and I can certainly agree that- that's probably how this all started. I can specifically show that, when bpd.

K

Was interfering with towing in the first place, doing these no pay agreements, whether that be a police tow or a private lot.

K

Tow that we're really not that far apart, I don't, I don't see a difference, but.

K

When they interfered before we had a lot of complaints, I would get negative.

K

Reviews, I would have people show up at my lot, telling me that the police.

K

Department dispatcher themselves told me that I don't have to.

K

Pay you I can do this, I can get out of it. It's very clear that this is a issue.

K

That was caused by the city now that they're not involved in it, at least for.

K

The last three months, they've actually not been involved. As far as I can tell.

K

Even though they stated that it, they were out of it before that. Well, before.

K

That last meeting the captain said: that's false, since they've not been.

K

Involved in the last three months, I've had three people that were unable to pay.

K

I set up payment plans with them anyway, even though the law doesn't require me.

K

To that's three people that are actually truly unable to pay. I can't tell you how.

K

Many people show up claiming that they're unable to pay, and then they open.

K

Their wallet and have $1,300 in it, so I mean it's it's giving an avenue in a way.

K

Out and as far as not being able to afford one thing, even if it's a tow.

K

There's many things people can't afford. If you can't afford to pay the tophi.

K

Don't come downtown and park illegally. That's I mean that's just way. I've been.

K

Told four times myself in this town from the time I was 18 until just recently, I.

K

Had my own service car in a pyramid in a permit parked lot with my name and phone.

K

Number on the side of it changing a flat tire a tow company came in, saw. I didn't.

K

Have a permit towed my car by all rights they were allowed to do that. Did I go up.

K

And tell him I could do a no pay just because I know that I could no. I paid.

K

The $240 because they're doing their job- and I didn't agree with it, but that.

K

Doesn't matter they didn't do anything wrong. I actually they brought me my car back, but the point is, I still paid it. So I.

K

Just don't feel like it's fair, I don't understand the agenda there and I really.

K

Feel, like I mean I'd really just like to stop councilmember boland.

A

Yeah, I think this has been a very edifying debate even now, and I want to.

D

Say a couple things that might clarify. First of all, the ordinance is not called.

D

Predatory towing, even though people would have a seat I'd be. I don't want to.

D

Make you stand it's not called predatory, towing. It's called.

D

Non-Consensual tow license okay, so that's specifically what it's about and.

D

It mr. simms is shaking is nodding his head to confirm that people have been.

D

Characterizing it as predatory towing, because the average person who gets.

D

Towed thinks that towing is kind of unfair in job. They don't nobody likes.

D

Being towed, we also have this impression that towing costs 80 bucks hundred bucks.

D

Hundred twenty bucks, you know, we've heard it's gone up, but nobody really knows it thinks about it until they get towed and they're shocked. When the bill.

D

Comes in it's 240, okay, one of the things that this ordinance is doing is at least.

D

Saying there is a cap on what's fair and amazing expensive to you all, but it's.

D

You know it's preventing it's preventing the true, predatory, towing. It's.

D

Preventing the eight hundred dollar charge or the towing out of state or.

D

Anything else that makes the legitimate towing companies gives them a bad.

D

The second thing it does it's been doing, and I certainly am learning a lot from.

D

Tonight is it's teaching everyone, how much towing costs and to that end, one of.

D

The things I'm thinking about as a result of this conversation is, can we.

D

Include a clause that somehow promotes the total cost of towing that the you.

D

Know that there's a certain cap, above which I mean what you may pay as much as.

D

Two hundred and forty dollars or whatever the amount is you know, and so.

D

Let that be part of the warning sign, because no one's ever really sure if.

D

There is some citywide sort of cap like we separate the daily charge. Okay, but.

D

The other stuff, if you know like the first day towing, may cost up to two.

D

Hundred and forty dollars at least no one will be surprised by it's. Why you.

D

Post signs right to say: look, we posted a sign you're not allowed to park here. If.

D

You do it's gonna cost you this much so. But the point is that you know people.

D

Are getting sensitive about it? I think I mean when we talked about this three.

D

Weeks ago, everyone in the room tell companies and others thought that a.

D

Better regulation was needed and that regulation is in front of us. Okay and.

D

It's not perfect. I think that the change now that specific change here that was.

D

Something that counsel for flaherty would support it. The customer simms had.

D

No objection to removed the thing that said that any violation would make you.

D

Subject to denial, and now it says the administrator can decline to wish you a.

D

Renewal license if the applicant has previously violated any provision of.

D

This chapter and has been subject to any of the penalties listed, in other words,.

D

Only if you've paid a penalty are you eligible for denial. That's different.

D

Than if you've had a warning that that's enough to deny you so that's a little.

D

Bit better, maybe we need to make it to such things.

D

That's something you guys have to get back to us on. Maybe we can't decide that.

D

Tonight, but that's all at this change of this amendment does.

D

And the only thing that this ordinance is doing, at least in my mind, is trying.

D

To set a cap a framework like it, can't get any worse than this, and then.

D

Everybody knows what the deal is, so that's the premise under which I'm.

D

Proceeding- and I you know hope that that's something that's understood by.

D

People I'd like some feedback on it. We have.

A

Someone to make it comment: it isn't directly related to one I'm a citizen.

S

Okay, I think, on this specific amendment, there aren't enough guidelines what kind.

U

Of timeframe is involved: when is this license pulled? Is it immediately how.

U

Long before you can see an appeal person what happens to your business in the.

U

Mean time is it six weeks until you can get in front of an appeals board.

U

Meanwhile, you you're, out of your businesses, shut down all your employers.

U

Are screwed what it doesn't seem like? There's enough language there enough.

U

Structure to the penalties, because that's seems like it would be a really.

U

Significant point to include thank you thanks all right. Where are we with.

A

Council questions you go to the mic. Most of the reason we've been pushing for.

Q

These discussions is the information you have is limited and in response to.

Q

Councilman sims everything he's doing is definitely necessary and understandable.

Q

I will address this later in the proper time, but if I can show you that there is.

Q

People out to get us and it is police, it is the legal department we.

Q

That change your mind just keep that in mind, and I will address that at the.

Q

Proper discussion time, this is why we are so adamant because there it is.

Q

Happening it has happened and there's been discrimination and etta's against.

Q

Us by police officers, I will dress that during our open the special time. Thank.

A

You any questions from council councilmember rollo response that he.

R

Wanted to give so perhaps so I do thank you very much. Councilmember rollo first.

F

Off, I just want to point out to the extent that there's some confusion, perhaps in the industry this. This is not a piece of legislation that was brought.

F

Forward by the administration has been brought forward by the council so to the.

F

Extent that you think that somehow the legal department crafted this and is is.

F

Trying to foist it on you, I promise you, that's not what happened here at all, but.

V

Sir, the other, the other thing I would like to say just is that this is hardly.

F

The first licensing regime that this body is placed into the city code and.

F

These provisions don't deviate from the other licensing regimes in the code in.

F

Any significant way, particularly if we're going to talk about amendment two.

F

When we're talking about a non renewal or a revocation of a food-truck license,.

F

Or a scooter license or a taxicab license or a solicitor license or a.

F

Pawnbroker license and if you were to go to terre, haute or columbus or so bender.

F

Indianapolis you'd find that their license provisions look the same way as well, so to the extent that there are concerns that this is somehow it's very.

F

Different or significantly varies from what happens in other communities does.

F

Just aren't founded well, let me post this to mr. roker, miss mr. lucas. Just a.

R

Clarification regarding a decline to issue or a new license. The procedure.

R

Would be, I assume, notification of the tow company and then.

R

A certain time period that it would allow a an appeal process, it is, is that.

R

Correct it wouldn't be your, you know: we're not going to renew your license.

R

And you know you're a jeopardy of right of your business than being what you get.

R

My drift and wait what time period do we have built in into this process for, for.

R

Appeal and so forth, so we're very familiar with sending notices of.

F

Violation in our department for violations of the city code. So what.

F

Would happen is we would send a written notice of violation. We would stay enforcement well, the 10-day period to file an appeal is pending, so you wouldn't be. You wouldn't be done and if you wanted to.

F

Appeal that decision you would go ahead, an appeal it to the board of public works. Your business would continue to operate while you were preparing for.

F

That appeal, if the appeal got continued or couldn't happen for some reason, say.

F

For four weeks, your license wouldn't be revoked in the.

F

Interim, so so this is again we do this all the time we send lots of notices of.

F

Violation: it's very typical. Thank you for that clarification, yeah.

A

Councilmember boland yeah. I did want to reiterate that this ordinance was.

D

Initiated by council, it was rough and granger was sponsored by them. They wrote.

D

It and it's being carried out by councilmember simms, since those two are.

D

No longer on council- and I forgot to mention that this was not initiated by.

D

The administration- this was council's idea- I I did want to hear from mr.

D

Padawan because he had some comments too, I gather that you also have reaction to.

D

This, but I just there was a question about that. She asked a question about.

D

What is the period of time that you know, after which, a violation is no longer.

D

Considered is it any violation ever or just in a given year or what is it.

D

That's a good question, I believe, as written the license administrator has.

B

Discretion and certainly the length of time since the last violation or since.

B

The last warning would play into what remedy they chose to pursue at that time.

B

I'll, let mr. rooker and on anything, but if there I guess I'd, ask mr. rooker.

D

Would you object to there being some period of time like in the past x, months or years, to be added that to qualify it so that.

D

It's not sort of forever, I would express a preference, is the way I would say that.

F

That, when the board of public works or view a reviewing, court were to consider.

F

An appeal following a decision at the license administrator that that body not.

F

Be bound by some sort of provision that says if a year is past, you can't.

F

Consider it I would like the board of public works or the circuit court to be.

F

Able to consider you know the entire history of a particular organization.

F

When deciding on an appeal, so I wouldn't want to put any sort of limitation like.

F

That and if there was three or five years yeah, and I think that that would.

F

Be really an important fact right if you'd been a good actor for four and a.

F

Half years, I think that would obviously be a really important fact for the board.

F

Of public works or for a judge to consider in reviewing the decision of.

F

The license administrator, who say that, even if a violation was more than five.

D

Years old, you wouldn't want to expire that I would want the reviewing body to.

F

Have the full factual circumstances available available for it to consider.

F

Thank you. I yield to public comment, I'd like to hear from either one yes, one.

U

Follow-Up comment: thank you for clarifying with that. There are time.

U

Frames in place, but while that's common knowledge to you and perhaps to the.

U

Council, that's not common knowledge to joe public! So that's why it's important.

U

To understand that, thank you in terms of the process here and we are spending a.

A

Lot of time on this amendment, are we to a point where we can have final comments.

A

From council, or do we need any further clarification ready to make final.

A

Just where are we do? Are there more questions that council needs to ask or.

A

Clarification are we ready to make a final comment on amendment 2, as amended.

A

And just to clarify, don't know that it was considered a friendly amendment. I.

B

Don't know if the council wants to consider it as a friendly amendment or.

B

Take a separate vote on the amendment to the amendment well, and I appreciate the.

D

Intent here I do think we need to have a provision for denial of non-renewal. I.

D

Think that it would actually benefit towing companies to to know that about a.

D

Truly bad actor could in fact be, you know, denied a license. I do wonder.

D

Whether this couldn't use a little more cooking, certainly that change was.

D

Important but where we've been debating it for a while and we're already getting.

D

Late, I kind of this is the kind of thing I wish. We had two more weeks to work on.

D

We do, we do have the friendly amendment on the table and I think what we're.

A

Hearing do we want to vote on that at least first before, because I think there might be more changes to this amendment. I.

D

Don't know that they're going to be dramatic, but if we have more changes.

D

This is still committee of the whole. We can bring it up at regular session. You.

D

Know I mean we've debated it plenty if, if the companies that are affected by.

D

This don't understand it and or have concerns about language changes. You know.

D

Like this, this was complicated. It was clear that they didn't understand our.

D

Process any more than we understood theirs and that this is non-trivial.

D

Language, I'd like a little bit more time to shop it all right. Any other comes.

A

With comments customer first a clarification, mr. shermin, is it.

R

Appropriate that if the sponsor councilmember simms accepts this is a.

R

Friendly amendment that we don't need to amend the amendment and we.

R

It's the proper, no one objects to it. You can move forward as amended if someone.

T

Can say I want to vote, then you have a separate vote, okay and then my second.

R

Comment is since this is a committee, the hall we could provisionally adopt the.

R

Amendment as amended, and then we could change it at a regular session if needed,.

R

But it at least gives us the ability to move it forward and and judge the.

R

Temperature of the amendment either way.

A

Councilmember sims: do you have an opinion on the friendly amendment? I.

G

Thought it was offered as a friendly amendment and that's how I accepted it. I.

G

Thought that as well, then, I ask unanimous consent to accept the friendly.

D

Amendment when we got the written copy of the strikeout, that that was what we.

A

Were debating in the past, we've had to vote on it, I'm even under friendly.

D

Amendment mr. chairman, you've made me vote on friendly amendments before in the past, you've had to vote on it. So, but I again I ask.

D

Unanimous consent to accept the friendly amendment, I'm you just a second all.

A

Right all in favor, please say aye aye. Anyone opposed okay. Now we have.

A

Something non stable to either move do pass on and maybe work on a little bit.

A

More talk to you, final statements recommend you pass. Second, it's been.

A

Recommended I will start with my left abstain. So that's a pass. I'm passing on.

D

Yes, I'm abstain. Yes, no. We're pass um well.

D

What's american men do pass something, that's confusing, I'm abstaining. I was.

A

Looking at ron, okay, okay, no, yes means you're moving. It.

D

Forward past means you're abstaining if you've changed your vote. Yes, okay, yes,.

G

I will pass yes, yes, yes, I'm sorry, council, member, all, yes, y02, okay, alright,.

A

That is five. Yes, madam chair, I'd like to ask the sponsor, if you wouldn't mind.

D

Skipping amendment three: for the sake of time, since it's a scriveners matter.

D

Where you take it up at council without committee consideration, actually it is.

G

Housekeeping and I think I think it's very non-controversial the words you'd.

G

Like to say so, did what was your question again? I just.

D

If he would not introduce it so that we could go to amendment for we can talk, we.

D

Can take it up at regular session. This should go back quickly, yeah, just you.

G

Know I'd like to do it in order? If that's your question, okay,.

G

Move do pass amendment three all right to move to. The second is that thank you.

G

The synopsis of this one is this: amendment is sponsored by myself and.

G

Changes a reference to the entity issue issuing licenses under the new chapter.

G

4.3 and like I said earlier, this was just housekeeping and ordinance number.

G

Three of I'm sorry, when the number three aboard missed 20. Oh three reads as.

G

Follows the proposed amendment ordinance 20? Oh three, section one shall be.

G

Amended by amending four point, three two point: one: six: zero subset b3 by changing.

G

The words controller's office to the word city so that four point three 2.16.

G

Old b3 would read as follows. Any fact or condition exists which, if it had existed.

G

At the time of the original application, for such a license would have permitted.

G

The city to refuse originally to choose such license. Okay, questions.

A

Regarding this particular amendment, some counsels any comment from the public. No.

A

Comment from the public that I'm seeing back to council for any final statement.

A

Recommend you pass ii recommend do pass, starting with my right. Yes, yes, yes, yes,.

R

Yes, yes, all right, and that is seven in favor.

A

Madam chair, I move amendment for second effect. Do second it please present all.

D

Right so this is the point where the question about the administrative fee is.

D

Relevant amendment for proposes adding a phrase for administrative expenses. The.

D

Maximum fee shall be $25. Now I didn't write this. I simply introduced it, so we.

D

Can discuss it? What I've heard from the towing companies tonight is that $25 is.

D

Under estimating the total cost of fees that are not the actual tow special.

D

Equipment or daily storage and that iu pays a base of $40 rather than 25. But.

D

It's at this point that I want to hear from tow companies about what they see.

D

In an administrative fee, what they think that fee should be, and so I'd like to.

D

Ask whoever wants to who's a tow company to speak to this? Can I get somebody to.

D

Speak to it all right, so, instead of going to council questions, first would.

A

Anyone like to speak to this rate was $25 versus the 40.

K

Again, my name is jacob padawan. With time I tried to send this as part of.

K

Something before we even started, but it's much longer. I maybe I came out.

K

Later but I'm gonna read just what I feel like is important. The admin fee for.

K

Every other contract was determined based on what the cost for that type of.

K

Service, provided was this service is much different and I want to clarify.

K

Again, I'm comparing to iu, because that was one of the one of the ones we're.

K

Trying to sync up with so here these prices were determined with iu, hiring.

K

The people that patrol these lots, I use staff, find the trespassing unauthorized.

K

Cars iu staff writes the tickets and determines what cars get towed.

K

Iu pays for all of the training of those employees. Iu determines sorry iu pays.

K

For installs and maintains all signage for the prep for their private property.

K

Iu pays for a science maintains record of and handles violations on all the.

K

Passes for the authorized cars and they assume all liability to authorized.

K

Towing of any unauthorized trespass and cars based on the indiana state, ic code.

K

So I you also has the right to ticket these cars in addition to having them.

K

Towed these tickets range from 20 to 200 dollars, depending on the violation, and I.

K

Think it's fair to assume the average fine is roughly $60. I think it's safe to.

K

Assume as well that the average fee would be enough to cover the cost of.

K

Policing those lots that iu has not, including the you know, 20 20, are you.

K

Parking ops contract that I also there's, I believe, there's like four of us in.

K

This room that are on that contract, not including that contract on normal.

K

Private property businesses, we actually assumed those fees apartment cop, the.

K

General practices apartment complex is not built for.

K

Private lot towing it's never it's not! That way! It's it's always built that the.

K

Owners risk and expense the signs read that way. Every single sign says.

K

Unauthorized and unwanted cars will be removed at the vehicles on a vehicle.

K

Owners risk and expense there's their very fair warnings. So you know to.

K

Understand those fees and that's your subject to pay those is really an.

K

Educational thing, not something that should be limited, but I just want to be.

K

Clear that my company, in the way that we do we've, got to hire and train all these.

K

Drivers there's drug tests involves there's background checks, there's.

K

Rigorous things that we have to do to make sure drivers can pass on our.

K

Insurance and everything there's just a lot of criteria that makes it really.

K

Hard to even find somebody to drive a tow truck, we pay for all the passes and.

K

The signage and installation of all signage on the properties that we tow.

K

For we want to make sure it's in court, in accordance with the indiana state law,.

K

Almost all signs and passes that we provide are reflective and top-quality.

K

Non-Consensual companies must also carry a separate insurance policy, different.

K

Than the normal on hook, type of insurance, that only covers consensual.

K

Roadside service type towing, we also must do all the policing of these.

K

Properties and I'd like to give you guys examples the driver has driver, must.

K

Drive around to each property and get out and walk in entire complex to check.

K

Every single car four passes that driver must also check in ever-changing noto.

K

List, as I said earlier, to confirm that there isn't any maintenance truck.

K

Cleaner van painter, delivery, truck lawn care truck or any other marked or.

K

Unmarked contractors to have permission to park but still may not have that.

K

Permanent or temporary pass to be on the property.

K

This driver must check all the specific permissions.

K

That we have in each contract to know what cars are eligible to tow on each.

K

Specific property every single contract is different. We must provide the best.

K

Service we can so most times the driver is coming up empty-handed. We go around.

K

In patrol may not find cars other times there could be three to five violators.

K

On any given property, these trucks are staffed and running day in and day out,.

K

The fuel and labor that is exerted through a private lot towing service is.

K

Very high, we have office staff to release these cars as fast as possible.

K

And keep all this info updated consistently. We must also provide night.

K

Shift staff to meet the 24-hour release requirements by indiana state law that.

K

They regulate already. I believe that a non-consensual private.

K

Property tophi should be at least 40 dollars higher than the iu v's, because.

K

Of the additional burden that we have with the policing of lots, as I said.

K

Before so name that number, what is the actual number for at least $40 $40.

K

Higher yeah and that's then, what's actually $20 conservative.

K

Based on how I came up with that because, like I said, an average ticket for iu.

K

Would be 60 bucks, so I think it's fair that that's what their costs are. We're.

K

Trying to services so that when the city changed its parking fine in 2018, it went.

D

From 20 to $30, we, it took a long time for us to figure out that we were not.

D

Actually getting our costs out of the old fine and that the new cost barely.

D

Did it so, how sure are you that $60 is their actual or maybe they're.

D

Overestimating me with they're under estimating, I might be overestimating. I.

K

Might be under estimating this is to the best of my knowledge in my own research in the last three to five okay. But what I'm hearing is, roughly, you think an.

D

Admission, a fee of $100 is fair in mike, and my character say that last part.

K

Hundred dollars that you can do you think that a sixty, if they are you.

D

Average of sixty- and you think it's at least forty dollars below what it should.

D

Be you're saying that you think I've been fee of $100 is what's fair because I know I believe that $60 would.

K

Be their average cost? I believe that, because we're doing both they can, I mean.

K

I think that forty is actually fair. I want to increase the $25.00 admin fee.

K

That they've already decided is fair for iu monroe county bpd. All that's for our.

K

Overhead, our additional overhead should be forty at least, and what that means is.

K

I want to change the administrative fee to $65.

K

Okay, so $40 over the 25 that we propose god right, that's all so that it would be.

K

The 135 to the dollar charge the storage charge, but the admin fee be allowed to.

K

Be $65 that that gives me clarity. I appreciate it. Yes, the vast majority of.

E

The reason for that, above and beyond $40, it has to do with policing of lanza's.

E

Right yeah, can I ask a related question. Mr. lockley.

E

Stated earlier that he they have a different mechanism for policing their.

E

Own lots and then mr. rowland customer rowland also brought up the possibility.

E

That, if your admin fee is capped at $25 and you can't recoup costs and no other.

E

Towing company can recoup costs, there's going to be no one to serve private lot.

E

Owners, unless those private lot owners are willing to pay you an additional you.

E

Know dollar per week or dollar per day amount to police lots for them. In other.

E

Word that's going to separate from the way you charge fees now it will have a.

E

Cap from the ordinance you're gonna need to make additional money if you're gonna.

E

Be policing lots and they will pay separately for that policing service.

E

Rather than building into the admin fees is sort of what this structure gets.

E

Satisfied, if I'm um yes, I understand that right. So so, do you have an aversion.

E

Or a problem to that or problem with that approach that it'd be a change in.

E

How you structure your your fees, perhaps but charging you could charge proper.

E

You lot owners for policing services separately from the towing fees that you.

E

Charge does that make sense yeah. I do believe based on all the contracts.

K

That I do have my business model personally. I know that some tow.

K

Companies have a very flat business model period. This is how much their tow.

K

Fee is, this is how much this is. This is the service they provide it's their way.

K

Of the highway I've built my entire business model around my customer and my.

K

Customer in this business is the private property owner and the state law. Clearly.

K

Says you need consent from the private property owner the vehicle owner or the.

K

Police, so when you have this contract, that consent is from the private.

K

Property owner and I don't believe that they would agree with paying for these.

K

Services, because of what that would cost- and I don't I guess, let me give you a.

K

Good example: each property is different. Some properties, I've only told three.

K

Cars off of and a year and a half some properties, we can tow five a day six, a.

K

Day, you know what I mean so it the need is definitely different.

K

And if we were to channel it that way, some properties could have that service.

K

Performed for a cheaper amount and some would have to we'd have to charge them.

K

Hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month just to perform that service are there other properties that work that you currently serve that do not.

E

Require you to police that just call you when they have a need, fair net and you.

E

Charge less in those instances yeah my personal business model as well has.

K

Three different price points that the property owner gets to choose from. It's.

K

A starting point for that tow everything else is the same fees, those dollies and.

K

Storage, I don't really have an admin fee right now, but I'm I'm okay with.

K

Restructuring something like that as far as private lot goes, but yes, there are.

K

Several properties that have what's called managers request, which means the.

K

Manager or prop, or something like that, would have to call on a car. That's exactly what this gentleman said: their practices on their.

K

Property but there's also several mostly apartment complexes like major ones, for.

K

Example, varsity apartments or omega apartments or jamar properties. Some of.

K

Those still have a management request, but a lot of them want 24-hour patrol.

K

Overall, the parking lots and the reason. Why is because their parking ratio is.

K

Not good there's there is absolutely zero visitors parking on any omega.

K

Property period also cs properties, zero visitor parking on any property that.

K

They own so they have to have us patrolling 24/7, literally through those.

K

Properties to make sure that people have the spaces that they're provided there's.

K

A couple other properties that we to--for that have assigned parking, whereas, where a tenant would pay for a specific space, some of them pay upwards.

K

Of 175 a month, some are structured, is $1,500 a semester, so that person is.

K

Going to want their space available and they have it set up on those occasions, a.

K

Lot of those are set up to where the actual person who owns that spot has to.

K

Call so it's not necessarily a management thing, the person that can.

K

Prove that they rent that space and we have that on record, can call and have.

K

The car that's in their spot, we've got several people behind that we're going.

A

To add to the initial questions, so if we could kind of keep things moving and we.

A

Can certainly get back with a with more additional questions for you. Thank you.

I

Cody chandler, with chema on movin, towing, to break down the administration for you.

I

To clarify that, I you parking operations, I you ventura county, their.

I

Administration fee is $25 monroe county words as a service fee of $25. As far as.

I

My breakdown, the way we the administration fee, what it covers on my.

I

Part is that covers an after-hours of vehicle, releasing there's no fees.

I

Structuring that the credit card fees we accept credit cards at my towing.

I

Location, so those are also taking consideration. The under the new proposed.

I

Ordinance four point: three two point: one: five: zero. There is a lot more.

I

Documentation, record-keeping, that is going to go into effect with this.

I

Including photos, video documentation past be kept up to two years, so that has.

I

To be taken into account for that fee as well also cars that are left after 72.

I

Hours according to state law, we have to send out a notice to register owner of.

I

The vehicle that is also an extra expense on that, so that administration.

I

Fee covers multiple things. You know, we feel you know, I feel like at least needs.

I

To be twenty five to start with, thank you. Thank you, hello. My name is devin.

P

King, as one of the previous speakers mentioned, the customers for towing.

P

Companies are property owners, it's not the people who they're driving the.

P

Revenue from with specific towing fees, and so I would like to suggest that we.

P

Carefully consider before allowing the increase of fees not related to the.

P

Towing of specific people's cars, those people can't control the level of.

P

Policing that towing companies decide to offer and if a lot owner decides that.

P

They would like an increased level of policing they. Maybe they want cameras.

P

Installed in constant modern monitoring, I would suggest that they be responsible.

P

For those additional costs, above and beyond the cost of the tow itself and.

P

That's all I would like to say thank you. Thank you. Do we need to hear anything.

A

From staff at this point after we've heard some input go ahead, sir max.

J

Stryker, I think, asking property owners to pay for a service that they shouldn't.

J

Need, but they do based on the lack of parking in this town, I think, is a.

J

Little ridiculous, I don't think there's only probably one or two property owners.

J

In this room, I'm pretty sure they don't have any interests in paying us to watch.

J

Their stuff and then on what level. Mr. law, whose properties I'm very.

J

Familiar with, I was where the contracted toer for him its management. He pays.

J

Somebody to sit in an office during the day and if there's an issue.

J

He pays that person already to go outside and then that goes to another.

J

Person and that person contacts me or or whoever's working for me at that time so.

J

It's quite a bit of a process there that already costs mr. lockley money. If I.

J

Said mr. lockley, do you want to pay me more money, so I can tell off your.

J

Property would you be in agreeance with that know that, because that's ridiculous.

J

Some of your some of the properties that we deal with our right downtown, there's.

J

A few that are watched by video camera that was at the property owner's expense.

J

That had nothing to do with me. He calls me, I would say 9 out of 10 times.

J

Whatever car, he calls me that was gone when I get there takes 11 minutes to get.

J

There so I have quite a bit of expense in fuel.

J

And time and I have to pay a driver for their fuel on time, tow truck drivers are.

J

Commission, the 25 or $35 admin fee. We don't charge that typically, it's built.

J

In just the numbers are all the same, you can build it. However, you want it costs.

J

Us a substantial amount of money to do these toes.

J

Drivers make reasonable money doing them, but they also have to take much caution.

J

That's not damaged things, otherwise, you know the profits on. All of that could be.

J

Smushed with one oops, the administrative fee.

J

I think should in this case, since there you guys are looking for a number should.

J

Be fifty bucks sixty-five dollars somewhere in there, we.

J

Have to keep more records, I have to buy cameras now for the back of my trucks.

J

The front of my truck side of my trucks to get video of these vehicles, the.

J

Driver has to take more time and take photographs and to be clear, we already.

J

Do a lot of these because a lot of people that have their vehicles not.

J

Essentially towed say: well, you damaged my bumper. Well, here's a picture of your.

J

Car before we ever touched it and then they're like okay, my fault, so we have.

J

Programs that cost us money question. Yes, sir, we have programs that cost us money.

J

I use a system called tow book. It's roughly $300 a month comes with gps.

J

Tracking uploads photos, you know from the drivers cell phone takes video from.

J

Our trucks uploads it to a server. You know it does a lot of stuff for us. It.

J

Costs us money already: that's a cost that to protect my drivers, my company.

J

Our reputation, that's a cost. I'm going to absorb 300 bucks a month doesn't.

J

Really, you know, that's reasonable, I think, to say to a property owner, hey you.

J

Require more parking policing because of where your property is located in the.

J

City has nothing to offer for you as far as a remedy, for that. That's not fair to.

J

Property owners- that's not fair to people that live at those properties. I.

J

Do have a question for you, sir, so you just gave mister. Luckily, as an example.

D

He said that he pays people to monitor their lots, so literally he is paying.

D

Somebody to do the monitoring he does it in-house, I'm not sure how exactly it.

D

Wasn't a note, but that you're saying that there are property owners who don't want to pay for monitoring, and we don't want to have.

D

To be the ones to be forced to to charge them for it, but why should the driver? I.

D

Mean the I don't see what's wrong with you know, we're certainly not preventing.

D

You from charging a monitoring fee, but I mean what is a property owner expect if.

D

They're in a place where a lot is being abused by people who shouldn't be.

D

Parking there, why should they expect to get your service? Your monitoring service.

D

For free, so I think this comes down to responsibility of the what I feel like.

J

In your case will be the victim of this entire deal here. Yes, sure the we have.

J

Signs, yes, ma'am. We have signs posted at properties indicating you know what you.

J

Can and can't do if you can't park there and as an adult if I go into a property.

J

And I see no parking unauthorized parking, permanent parking on something.

J

To that nature, chances are I'm not gonna park there. I'm gonna find street parking.

J

Pay parking or inquire about said permit. No, I get what you're saying, but the.

D

Thing is like what were here talking about tonight is trying to find a fair.

D

Rate, so that no one will ever accuse you guys of being predatory again, because.

D

Here's a fair rate that the city is adjudicating now that rate the debate.

D

We're, having is about monitoring the value of monitoring, and you guys have.

D

Been having to build monitoring into your price- and you know, like we've, heard.

D

Your complaints about it, how you're you're squeezed in so many different.

D

Sides, but this seems to be the one thing like I get: signage training, insurance.

D

Office staff 24/7 credit cards, documentation notice got all those.

D

Things down, these are all costs you guys incur. I get those and I totally support.

D

An admin fee that covers those, but the monitoring.

D

Is different right, I'm not advocating that we cover our monitoring costs. I'm.

J

Also not advocating that we ask the property managers do so or the property.

J

Owners to do so, I think that, with all this additional paperwork again, I spent.

J

An hour on the phone this morning, that's an hour of my time. My time is worth.

J

Writing, but I mean you guys should konkuk I mean somebody. Should somebody.

D

Who, whoever does monitoring, should be paid for it, whether it's the employees.

D

Of the property owner or a contractor, like you guys right well, I see, I believe.

J

That the monitoring should be built in to our fees and paid for by the.

J

Perpetrator, if you so will yes, sir yeah? Well, you say one last thing as a.

D

Resident of town manor the most difficult place to tell out of in the entire city right behind the bluebird. Okay, we could never get a tow company to.

D

Come and tell us, I don't remember who we contracted with, but whenever I needed.

D

Somebody it's this years ago, yeah, no, I'm sure, I'm sure, son better now, but years.

D

Ago I could not get anyone to cut. It was the hardest toe to do. Nobody wanted to.

D

Do it so you know we would have paid a fee just to get somebody to do it. That.

D

Was even possible one property that has specific issues, there's thousands of.

J

Props sure oh you're, making my point: councilmember flaherty has the same.

E

Point and where they pick this apart, you do you also mr. perot. Is that right, but.

E

Do you also, mr. striker, do you charge different fees for property owners.

E

Depending on whether or not they call in the the issue, you know where they you.

J

Have to know my fees which, if any of you would like to take a look at my fees. I.

J

Did only print out one copy, unfortunately, whether we're contracted.

J

To patrol a particular lot or if it's calling only by a manager, our fees are.

J

Generally, the same personally and and other businesses may model differently.

J

Consistency is what is what I'm, after which it sounds like this bill is about.

J

Consistency so you're trying to match everything through and.

J

But you're also placing a lot more on us as towing companies. You know that and we.

J

Have to offset that cost somehow, where do we get it? We can't build it into the.

J

Tow fee: well, it doesn't make sense, so we have to build it into an admin fee. Yes,.

J

Council members gamble or whoever's gonna help me with this, but it's been a.

L

While since I've been a renter, so help me find the flaw in my thinking here.

L

Okay: okay, no problem when I, if I think of myself as a renter.

L

In an apartment, I think of parking as an amenity, that's something I get to do.

L

Because I pay my rent, I can live there right all right. A swimming pool is an.

L

Amenity and the apartment complex or the own, the property owner, has an obligation.

L

To maintain that amenity, they have an obligation to make sure the elevators.

L

Work in a building, they have an obligation to ensure that all the.

L

Appliances they provide for residents, works. Okay, I guess what I'm having.

L

Trouble understanding is: why is parking different, why? Why should they mr.

J

Lockley could step in on this, so as mark lockley as a property owner you're.

H

Having someone who's trespassing on your property so to that that pool that.

H

You're using is an amenity, and it's for amenity for my residents, who are paying.

H

For that amenity, as opposed to someone who just trespasses on your property.

H

Parks a car and leaves that's for us. That's that that's the difference and.

H

And so to clarify our process, don't nut you on that just why is that not just a.

L

Reasonable expectation of doing business, if you have a desirable residential.

L

Property downtown, you know people are going to park and trespass. Why is that.

L

Not an expected cost of doing business because the person's essentially is is.

H

It's a violation onto you as opposed to someone who's paying money.

H

For that amenity I agree. Yeah and again, you know if there was plenty of parking.

H

This wouldn't be, this wouldn't be an issue. I just had a project approved in.

H

December, where the main the main argument to the to the approval was, was.

H

Parking as as as councilman volans laughing I mean it is a real issue and.

H

So we are, we are under parked. I have more cars than I can handle on an.

H

Everyday basis, and so every parking spot is is, is paid for by the resident and.

H

It's and they need it. You know, especially my market is, I am a non.

H

Undergraduate developer, essentially so I have professionals and and and and.

H

Professors and retirees grad students so that that car is their access to work.

H

It's to to shopping and all these things so for them it's essential that they.

H

Have it and so for for me, you know I go into the expense of. I don't monitor my.

H

Parking actively, it's not eight to five. When my office is open. You know the.

H

Staff is, it goes through the goes through parking, but after hours a.

H

Resident would call into the whoever's on call, and they then determine if that.

H

Car needs to be towed and then they called the towing service. So I'm paying.

H

Already time and a half for my after-hours person, who is an employee of.

H

Mine to take the call go through the list determine who's there. Sometimes.

H

Actually go out on-site if there's a question on if it is a residence, if it.

H

Is a residence car and then make the call to.

H

To have a tote so there's so in that case the president is doing the.

L

Patrolling so to speak well after after hours, it is it is. They.

H

Were its complaint based, but if you go through any of my developments, I have.

H

There, every space as to his is parked at night unless sir and just to be clear,.

L

I'm not suggesting that people should both cars or the or the totally.

H

Understand people who trespass and park illegally are are just fine and so for.

H

Us to actually provide a parking lot that provides parking right and so for.

H

Us it doesn't make any sense to us to incur a cost for someone that is not is.

H

Trespassing and it's not supposed to be there if I were the city, I'd, be able as.

H

An example I'd be able to I'd, be able to tow I'd, be able to take it. The ticket.

H

Would stick you know that would be. I wouldn't be able to get my money for.

H

That I would be able to reap a cost to that violation and as a property owner.

H

I wouldn't right. Thank you, councilmember vol. I have a follow-up question. Mr.

D

Lockley, why don't you gate your lot? You know.

H

This isn't la, I don't think anyone wants to have it as a developer. I don't want.

H

To have gated that would that would that would reduce your enforcement cost and.

H

It would also it would increase, it would increase rent because I'm having to go.

H

Through and and and put up gates and ma and monitoring and the cost of.

H

Maintenance and the you're already spending that money on mater. Your heck.

D

She's spending it on staff. If you had a gate, you could use your again for me. I.

H

Don't my staff isn't like sitting in front of a tv, you look there as they're.

H

Going about their daily business or as we get a call in the day, they'll.

H

That's the way that they monitor, but I guess, aren't very, very friendly. I mean.

H

It's not gates on their garage, yet the person south. Yet you have a garage. It.

D

Parks out there, their gates that we do have, we do have a gate on on that one. As.

A

We approach 11 o'clock may remind everyone. The amendment on the table has.

A

To do with the cost: well, that's what we're trying to get to and so and my.

H

Point is: is that you're having someone come onto your property? That's.

H

Trespassing, why is it fair for me, as the property owner to pay for that person.

H

It's car work, it's not a matter of fairness is that we I mean if, if the.

D

Parking enforcement of the city enforced every violation they can maybe get to.

D

One in ten, if we enforce every violation, there'd be rioting in the street, because.

D

It would be like a police statement. Okay, we we enforce as much as we can and it's.

H

The same for us as as mister stryker said you know, there are a lot of times.

H

Where we'll have someone come in they'll park, they want to grab whatever from.

H

Whatever store sure he has the drive out there, we have to spend time to to deal.

H

With that and they're gone already, and it's that's when people ask why we don't.

D

Have more parking like mister stryker does the my answer is because it costs.

D

Money to enforce to prevent people like if you leave it open, you don't get it.

D

Then you get people who are you know so so all I'm saying is it costs money to.

D

Own a parking lot because you have to somebody has to patrol it somebody as a.

H

General policy, I think it as a developer in this town who's actively developing.

H

It was built 600-plus sure units in this town. I really don't want to start gating.

H

Developments, you know it's just I have something. I have a visceral reaction to.

H

See to driving around this town to see a bunch of gates, it's not la. I mean I'm.

D

Sorry, we can't be nice, but the thing is: everybody thinks that they deserve free.

D

Convenient parking and that's why companies exist, but it's not free, saying.

D

The resident is at least my residents aren't paying a.

H

Monthly fee, but it's certainly built into the rat man.

H

Councilmember flaherty has a question: administrative expenses and the.

E

Appropriate level for that, I you had mentioned her and I started to ask.

E

Earlier that, and I believe you verified that you have a different rate that you.

E

Charge based on whether it's a callin versus you doing, policing, right and then.

E

And then you were making the argument earlier that, because of your policing,.

E

Costs they have an admin fee should be higher. So my question is when, when you.

E

Tow a vehicle from let's compare the two situations when you tow a vehicle from a.

E

Lot where the owner simply calls it in versus when you tow a vehicle from a lot.

E

That you have to actively be fleet, policing or monitoring what happens to.

E

The vehicle in those two cases is the charge to the vehicle owner that.

E

Identical or is the charge to the vehicle owner in the second case, where.

E

You were doing monitoring higher yeah. Typically, the monitored parking is.

K

Higher, I wanted to quickly touch base re kind of follow through on this, though, if.

E

That's! Okay! Yes! So you so as a vehicle owner who is towed by your company, you.

E

You pay less as the vehicle owner to get your car back. If you parked in a lot.

E

Where management is monitoring themselves and calling it in versus the.

E

Amount, you will pay to get your car back if it was a lot that you were policing.

E

Is that right? Yes, so my contract is very structured for a pricing point. There's.

K

Three different levels: they all vary $20 stages. So, typically speaking, it's $40.

K

Cheaper on a lot where they handle the policing is in this gentleman that just.

K

Walked in the door is one of the ones that does the policing for me got it so.

E

Yeah, so you so you are charging, you are charging, you are already charging for.

E

The policing service, because you have a three tiered structure, so you're charging more to include that service. Now, when you wanna know, I don't want you.

K

To take it in that aspect at all, because that's not what it is when I set out.

K

Those three levels: it is up to the private property owner to choose the.

K

Price that I am charging so based on the service you provide, though, right the.

E

Cheaper price seems like that's always the case, there's much more criteria.

K

There's criteria based on what their issues are, what their people.

K

Can afford how fast they want you to learn your lesson I mean there really is.

K

How often do they want us patrolling there? Do they want it hourly where.

K

You're only patrolling 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. do they want it to be a 24-hour service.

K

There's a lot of negotiation that goes into that's! That's fair! That there's.

E

More factors, besides just monitoring my point and what I wanted to tease out of.

E

That question was that, right now the vehicle owner is getting charged a.

E

Different amount based on the level of service you provide to the lot owner.

E

Right but absolutely none of that has anything to do with an administrative.

K

Fee currently well not currently, but you part of the argument for a higher.

E

Administrative fee was that you provide monitoring services. My point is we're.

E

Trying to craft an ordinance where, as a vehicle owner, you pay the same amount.

E

Maximum, regardless of the lot you you are towed from because, if you're paying.

E

An extra $50 in some cases, it's the vehicle owner, then who is paying for the.

E

Monitoring surfaces of extra vigilant owners and not having to pay in the case.

E

Where it is not, I don't know I sort of lost the thread there at the end, but.

E

Essentially, we're building the price of monitoring into what the vehicle owner.

E

Pays to get the car back as opposed to building it in to the cost of doing.

E

Business for a property manager and and some are already building themselves. Mr.

E

Lockley already builds that in so there's kind of this right. There are.

E

Companies that do the policing for us and they negotiate things with us and.

K

That, like I said again, they get to choose that pricing based on how.

K

Important, it really is for that company to learn for their trespassers to learn.

K

That lesson: are they trying like a lot of low-income places, for example, to arch.

K

Apartments is very cheap, they don't think their people can afford a the top.

K

Level so it's the bottom level same with the gentleman. That's behind me. You know.

K

We're on the bottom level with him, but for like omega' properties, where there's.

K

Absolutely no visitor parking and they don't want anybody parking there. They want them to learn their lesson. The first time it is the higher one. So it's typically $40 higher that really that strategy doesn't have anything to do.

K

With the administrative costs of running my company, it was just kind of how I.

K

Structured my business at the time, and one thing I really just want to answer.

K

For her she was asking about, she looks at a parking space as an amenity, and it.

K

Absolutely is an amenity, but it's her amenity right. So if you're trespassing.

K

On somebody's property, that is not your amenity, you are trespassing, you are.

K

Breaking a law you do need to be removed, you do need to be fine and you do need to be towed. So I'm not agreeing with that. Yeah yeah yeah mr. lockley had.

A

Another point you got with respect to this sorry mark lockley, one other just.

H

Quick as a property owner and as a property manager, I hate towing it's bad.

H

Pr for us, I don't want anyone towed in front of a commercial building that we.

H

Own or a residential building, it's it's bad! It's a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

H

It take it takes up staff time, they don't like doing it well, you know again.

H

It's it's bad pr. We want for people who are coming to buy stuff at our business.

H

Or someone else's business to have a good experience and when you walk out in.

H

Your car's gone, even though you know you might be parking illegally. It leaves a.

H

Bad taste, and so it's really we do it reluctantly, but we do do it because it.

H

Is you know when you're blocking an entrance? I mean you understand the.

H

Arguments but it's just it's it's bad pr for everyone, so I just wanted to make.

H

Sure the owners development. Thank you additional comments, respect to the.

A

Administrative expense for the administrative fee. I mean I'm wayne.

W

Chandler I work with a company called flexi park. I could just say like 30.

W

Seconds of what we do because it seems relevant, but you know I enforce we've.

W

Got about a hundred spots downtown now over the last year, and I do all the.

W

Enforcement and I use jake with tow time and they've been great. I don't tell very.

W

Often, very rarely used tickets really a warning we're talking about a ticket.

W

System can't really enforce it so much, but their warnings and they work.

W

I go through the lots every day lunchtime, dinnertime weekends, when I.

W

Know it's busy art software keeps track of how many violations, so I can see how.

W

Many violations they've had so you know I might write a little note on the.

W

Second, violation: like hey we're, gonna tell you, plus we have a lot of signs so.

W

Like when you pull into a lot what I found cuz, I talked to a lot of people.

W

That are parking and stealing parking. They think they can get away with it or.

W

They say, oh well, sorry. I thought this is a pretty lot. They know it's not free, but.

W

That you says excuse, so we have a lot of signs to say you can park here. You just.

W

Have to pay so they kind of get the idea with all the sciences sign on each spot.

W

So you pull up and you see the sign, it says: here's how you pay and you go.

W

Online you pay with your credit card, so it's worked really well. We have two.

W

Of the biggest slots in town, the kirkwood lot next to cbs and then first.

W

United methodists and they tons of parkers. So it's a lot more parking.

W

Available, I mean it seems like with the parking garage cost. It's like thirty.

W

Thousand dollars of spot, so that's like three million dollars saved that you.

W

Don't have to build parking garages, so if I can help I'd like to you know.

W

Enforcement, whatever there's gonna, be less towing, because I write the warnings.

W

And it's always often so I don't know if that's relevant, but thanks we're trying.

D

To talk about the administrative fee and whether or not there should be an.

D

Administrative fee added to the towing and how much it should cost.

W

I mean I don't charge anything, I just do it because I don't get paid from towing.

W

I just get paid my people apart, weave mingling when people park and so does.

W

The owner, so we want them to park many many many people, I've turned from being.

W

Violators into paying customers- but you know some by towing but most not so, but.

D

The owner of the lot is paying you to be there, so that's where his monitoring.

D

Cost no nobody's nobody's paying me extra to do that not but you're already.

D

There he's got to cost like you know, somebody's monitoring, the lot, what it's.

D

He'd hire the tow company to monitor the lot. No, I'm honored a lot myself yeah.

W

Yeah, I do all the all the enforcement monitoring. Then I called jake whenever I.

W

Have I need to tow so you know it's just instead of being paid to enforce, I'm.

W

Enforcing it's like a business. I look at it like a business, I'm enforcing to to.

W

Get more paid parkers, so that's a different perspective, so yeah we have.

A

Some additional comments in line here that may shed some light yeah all right.

P

I'll make this very brief, but I and once again my name was devin king and I've.

P

Heard a lot of equating towing to sort of policing or security type service.

P

That property owners are are receiving, and I would just like to remind us that.

P

That is a cost borne by property owners. Already you know, property owners have to.

P

Pay for security for cameras, fencing these things already and we don't.

P

Question the fairness of that, because it's seen as a cost of doing business.

P

And that will be all. Thank you. Thank you.

V

Howdy stevehopkins with hawkins towing, I think $25.00 administer fee is, I think,.

V

That's more than fine cuz you're, already looking at the tow is 135, but every toe.

V

Is going to be it's going to come out to 205 because you got your 135, you got $35.

V

Lease you got 35 administrative fee 25, whatever it's going to be around $200 to.

V

Tow so a one, ninety two hundred, but I mean I think you know one. Ninety two.

V

Hundred, that's, I think, that's a more than fair paper when you break it down.

V

Per so thank you. Thank you. Any additional questions from one quick one.

Q

Ask jim, I can't pronounce your last name.

Q

Scam trying to be respectful, you were asking about the amenity and all that.

Q

Also consider why there's an issue. Basically, the city has greatly greatly.

Q

Eliminated the amount of parking spaces these places have- and this is a quick.

Q

Reference, a wedding chapel that can hold 600 people was approved, 80.

Q

Parking spots, so where do the rest of the people go? That's why it used to be.

Q

Free, it was included with your rent, but as this city grows and we have and I'm.

Q

Not saying that's wrong to do this, but remember that the changes in the way we.

Q

Run our city and the changes to be eco-friendly have repercussions so as.

Q

The city has limited what a developer can put it if he could many of them.

Q

Would want to put more and then they can include that spot as part of your rent.

Q

Unfortunately, the changes have made it where what's the ratio, half a parking.

Q

Spot per bedroom so literally right from the.

Q

You automatically have not enough parking spots for actual your tenants, so.

Q

How can you give it for free when you don't even have enough for what is there.

Q

It's a quick explanation of your question. Thank you can't remember. Sims.

A

Are we there council comments before we yeah? It's like the time to wrap this up.

G

I think kohi council comments. Are we ready for.

A

Comments are there any more questions from council, okay comments. Well we're still on the administration expenses, and you said.

G

Something three times so there's something else you want to add on this.

G

Ordinance that we're talking or a minimal we're talking about now, I'm sorry does the chair. I'm sorry.

G

Well, that's not what we're talking about now! That's the full ordinance next week.

G

Probably so is it common time yeah what I do want.

G

To say is: would the council give me two minutes to perhaps provide a staff.

F

Perspective on amendment four: yes, we go to council comments. I'm sorry, I know.

V

We've jumped straight to the tow companies. Thank you, you know, and I do.

F

Want to say, I want to remind everybody, it's not. This is not an administrative blood initiative, so these are really just observations. I'm providing, but I do.

F

Want to point out that the council has spent the better part of an hour talking.

F

With the industry about what they should be allowed to charge, and I find it to be.

F

Perhaps the least surprising thing in the world that they've said more: you.

F

Know I I also find tonight you've already increased the base fee from 125.

F

Or suggested that you will increase the base fee from 125 to 135.

F

We know that dahling is charged on every toe. We see that.

F

So that's 160 dollars as a base fee. Already that's what we've set as the.

F

Base fee now we've heard an administration fee of $20 or $40 or $65.

F

So we're we're at 180 or we're at 200 or we're at 225, perhaps and and and that's.

F

The feed be setting. We should be clear about that. Whatever you said is the max.

F

Fee, that's the fee that will be charged. That's what we see right now on the.

F

Public toe side, it's a cap, but that's what's charged in every case. You know I.

F

Don't mean to be not trying to be difficult about this, but I'm not sure.

F

What an administrative fee is, you know, we've heard lots of explanations for.

F

This, if you want to increase the base fee, just increase the base fee that.

F

Would be far more transparent and less opaque? You know there have been a lot of.

F

Justifications that have been offered for this administrative fee, but but it's.

F

Difficult, you know those just appear to be the cost of doing business in general.

F

If there's a cost of credit cards, it's a cost of doing business, there's nothing.

F

Special about this administrative fee, so I think it's just confusing.

F

They haven't explained well what an administrative fee is. I don't understand.

F

It I don't know that you understand it, I don't think the public will understand.

F

What an administrative fee is at all if we want to let them charge 225 then set.

F

It at 225 and then we'll subsequently modify title 15 to increase those fees.

F

To 225, but that's what you have to decide tonight where you want to set the fees or maybe on march, 4th more accurately.

F

But you know here's what I can say: there's no reliable data here, so we can.

F

Listen to companies say they can justify 225, but there's no reliable data to be.

F

Had I know this, though we contract with four companies right now, hawkins rix.

F

Kenz and auto mobile and those companies are permitted to charge. One hundred and.

F

Twenty five dollar base fee, a twenty five dollar dollying fee and twenty five.

F

Dollars per day, storage costs and that's it- that's the full amount. They're.

F

Allowed to charge and they're doing fine they're, not having trouble so well.

F

There's no reliable data to be had. I will say that that I am suspicious of.

F

The notion that 225 is a necessary fee to stay in business.

F

Thank you can't remember bolan. Mr. simms wants to go first, I'm fine. We don't.

A

Respond to that actually I do and it's kind of ironic if I could use that word.

G

That everything I was about to say, is he kind of said it right before me. Two.

G

Things I do want to say three things. First of all, we've been talking a lot about the cost of doing business, your costs as business owners to do the.

G

Business I've heard things like I have to pay for signage in our ordinance that.

G

Is the owner's responsibility, whoever owns that lot? So if you choose to do.

G

That I mean I'm okay with it, but that's not an administrative fee for us or for.

G

This ordinance that that's not the way I see it.

G

Okay, I've also heard earlier tonight every company is different. So if I got.

G

Twenty companies, so I got 20 different administrative costs. I got 20 different.

G

Ways you do business 20, people that might do dolly and 20 that don't we're.

G

Trying to look for even consistent meth, some of you here tonight I said: that's.

G

Fine with me others say I can't live like that. You.

G

Say we're trying to find a equal balance here? Okay, now here's the main point: I.

G

Really want to make earlier tonight someone said I do 42 tolls one night.

G

Now, based on $125 tophi, $25 dollar, fee $25 administrative fee- that is a hundred.

G

And eighty dollars actually about 130 on the toast at a 125. So one hundred and.

G

Eighty dollars, forty two tolls, is seventy five hundred and sixty dollars.

G

You can use my calculator if you only did 20 tolls at that cause. It is $3,600.

G

I don't be, I don't begrudge anyone to make money or anything at all I mean.

G

That's fine, but what I'm saying is if you tote at it up it's a hundred and.

G

Eighty dollars the base fee is 125 and we're willing to go to 135. I mean it.

G

Seems like you want us to go to say: 250 bucks, a tow and let's go home. That is.

G

Against what there's ordinances for the original sponsors, what I'm bringing for.

G

The people in this county that in this town that simply can't afford some of.

G

These, I understand the educational part I get all of that. I also understand it.

G

Cost a business okay, so I think we got another comment: yeah mr. blundin.

X

Well, I'm a striker telling wait, wait hang on yeah, I don't know if it's your.

G

Turn or is it in steve state, your name, doug planning, almost record towing and I.

X

Just want to shed light on why it was closer talia. I just want to shed light.

X

On to what you were speaking on on what we make for toes, I'm a driver, so I make.

X

33% of what you know the owner gets for the toes, which some toes are sixty-five.

X

Dollars most or toes or 65 50 dollars of those 42 toes you're, bringing.

X

Up so you might want to read you that math and take out 33% of that and yeah.

X

Because that'd be more accurate statement. Thank you for that point. No.

A

Thank you, council, member, boland, okay, so here's my.

D

Take, and this is related to the admin fee that we've been discussing all night.

D

I want to echo mr. roker sentiments you know and mr. simms has actually made a.

D

Similar point, you know the reason that the word predatory is used by people who.

D

Don't know any better is because they don't know any better.

D

They don't know what the costs are. They don't know what the prices are and people do charge different prices. So the result is you're. If you get towed, you.

D

Don't know how much you might be fitted to pay and people are, as we have heard,.

D

Shocked by the number that said, it's not unfair to ask the question: well, what.

D

Would a fair administrative fee be that doesn't mean that we have to charge as a.

D

Separate fee, as mr. drucker said, we could increase the base fee if anything.

D

I think that a separate admin fee is bit more transparent because, as the.

D

Gentleman who just spoke said he only gets paid based on the the tophi, and he.

D

Wouldn't get a cut of the administrative fee unless it was rolled into the trophy.

D

So you know, we've learned a lot just tonight about the different expenses.

D

That tow companies worried about and that individual tow employees worry.

D

About okay, so it's not unreasonable to ask the question: should there be a fee.

D

And what should the fee be? You know like it, it's it's how the tow industry works.

D

Now, having said that, I don't know based on what I've heard tonight, what the toe.

D

Fee should be, I don't have a recommendation. I've heard 25, 50 and 65.

D

As that is the range okay and the result would be, let's assume.

D

That we chart we, we allow the prices to be what the tow companies have suggested.

D

Tonight, 135 tow 35, dolly and let's just go with.

D

The max of 65 for the admin fee, let's leave daily storage out of it.

D

We're looking at two hundred and thirty five dollars and as the several people.

D

Have said, if we're looking at a minimum of two hundred dollars for a tow based.

D

On these prices, now it's up to those of us talking about it to evangelize. If you.

D

Will to those people who might be affected by tows, many of whom have an.

D

Unearned privilege they believe they can park wherever they want to and should be.

D

Immune from tows and every tow, every employee of a tow company is dealt with.

D

That privilege sort who thinks that they should be immune from the costs of their.

D

Actions- and so you know, we don't want to throw toko pennies under the bus and we.

D

Don't necessarily want to gouge people who are hardier up or you know, have it.

D

More difficult than others, so we're trying to find a fair way to do.

D

Things what I know is that I don't know tonight. I don't know how to do this.

D

Tonight I don't know enough. I've learned a lot tonight, but I'm not ready to amend.

D

It or make a recommendation I feel like I need more time on this, but just to.

A

Clarify that's what I'm trying. That is my question.

A

This amendment had no sponsor and when you pose this question,.

A

Yeah, I'm just firm a ssin you're, not sponsoring it, I'm happy to sponsor it. I.

D

Just don't know because we had to introduce it to talk about it, but I mean.

D

I'm happy to you know like withdraw it for the time being and reintroduce it.

D

When we're ready, okay, but it's it's- I mean I feel like it's important to.

D

Discuss it, I don't know what the outcome should be if anybody else has guidance.

D

On we have one more person in line. I will entertain your comment, sir, and see.

A

If you can shed any additional light here before, we make a final statement on.

A

This one and put it to bed guess what my broker explained a while.

N

Ago I couldn't agree with any more. I think that was a phenomenal statement.

N

That he made we as a towing company, we did for assistant city initiated tows. We.

N

Did for 20 years, almost 20 years, I think I've seen everybody here in council. We.

N

Talked about $65.00 during a night, fifty five dollars during the day and we went.

N

20 years before, the city allowed us to have a raise to go to 125 and I'm going.

N

To tell you that was a phenomenal price rate for us, but we've still survived.

N

It's $65 a tow, we've still survived at the $25, a day, storage and I'm personally.

N

Going to tell you, I think it's absurd of some of the prices that they're asking.

N

For administration fees, because I think it's crazy- I may join friends tonight.

N

Because of this- and I may not, but if they think their overhead is more than.

N

Mine I'd like to share some books, because I disagree my cost of doing.

N

Business as towing is no different than theirs.

N

These prices are, in my opinion, absurd and high, and it's not fair to the.

N

Customers and consumers who are doing this- I agree that they should pay a fine.

N

Ice agree that they should pay their tow bill. I do not agree that they should let.

N

Their have her heart for free when they just because they want to come and get it and choose that they don't want to. But I think the fair price should be.

N

Fair and fair to everybody- and I don't believe the customer should have to pay.

N

For policing and or anything else for administration fees for people and by.

N

The way I you it has just started this administration fee and if you call them.

N

On the phone, they can not give you a true definition of innocent ministration fee. They ask you to do whatever call them and ask them yourself. If you'd like.

N

To get a definition of administration fees, they cannot give it to you, okay, so.

N

With that being said, I still think we need to go back to the original price. I.

N

Couldn't agree with him more and I'm sorry to be difficult, but I think we're.

N

Moving in a good path with what they originally does and just the.

A

Administration fee is just absolutely absurd to begin with, just to be clear.

A

When you say going back to the original price, are you talking about the $25 as.

A

It was written in this proposed if you're gonna allow resolution, maybe in a.

N

Year, because when we had these speak this about six months ago, I think when.

N

We change the city ordinance to allow the race to go up.

N

We said we would revisit these fees in one to two years. Did we not? I think we.

N

Can all agree that that's what we said we would revisit these fees. I you state.

N

City or county, I'm sorry, they opted to jump a year before you get. You guys did.

N

Because they were at 125, they opted to jump a little bit earlier. That's where.

N

They took the fees I didn't initiate those fees they brought them to me. Okay,.

N

Yeah, I would love to make two hundred and five dollars per toe, just because.

N

They told me because I'm going to dolly, I'm gonna do administration fee and I'm gonna do this at that point in price, with the same price they were at to.

N

Begin with for a private towing, I'm just saying I think the prices are asking for.

N

Is absurd is too high, and so once again, are we talking about the $25 here for.

A

The administrative expenses, or are you just talking about I'm saying the.

N

Administration fee period, okay, shouldn't even be there, everybody clear the cost.

N

Of doing business, the 125 or 135 for sofrito, 25 or $35 for dollies as a.

N

Laborer to work those drivers earn it. The company earns it. In my opinion, when.

N

They get extract of money for dollies, that's hard work then guys do earn it.

N

Not gonna lie about it, but those prices also incurred is also what's left over.

N

At the end of the business to pay your fee pay your bills, pay your drivers by.

N

Your licensing, your insurance, your trucks, everything else covers everything.

N

Just fine, but if no different than any cd contract, I can't depend on my.

N

Business for the city to pay my bills, I can't depend on the indiana state police.

N

Calling me for every accident to pay my bills as a business owner. I go out and.

N

Drum up business, I find things if this is: if this ordinance is the only thing.

N

That's gonna justify my business. I may look into something different.

N

Thank you saul. I have to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Alright, we are back.

A

To council for any final statement on this again, I I really don't want to talk.

D

More about this tonight, it's not ready to vote on. I don't. I mean I've heard.

D

Enough testimony to know that I don't know, I do think we need to finish.

D

Thinking about it, it's up to the council what what it wants to do, whether to send.

D

To another committee of the whole in two weeks or to send it back to kind next week you mean this this amendment, the the whole ordinance, including this.

D

Amendment that mean I, if the council goes back to the full, if.

D

The committee of the whole goes back to the full council next week, I'll do what.

D

I can, I don't know what to make of it. Okay, so again with the amendment for.

A

That's on the table right now, I'm happy to withdraw it for the time being. Is.

A

That what you wish to do to just dispatch with that particular matter.

A

Unless there's another comment on it, any other comment down here: councilmember.

A

Sky mallory holding that didn't neatly fit into I'm happy to entertain him. I.

D

Don't mean to withdraw it before you know. That's there are larger discussions.

L

Actually, so I think, for that reason it may be that the suggestion is for it to.

A

Go to another committee of the whole, you mean this amendment or the whole.

D

Ordinance, I don't know, are you referring to this particular amendment or the.

A

Entire thing, I think I think she's got bigger questions for the overall point.

A

Of order, because mister berlet sounds like it's willing to withdraw this amendment and then we can then go to the committee to the ordinance as a whole.

A

Point of order yeah, my point by withdrawing it now is just that can.

D

Reintroduce it that's just, it would end conversation on it tonight right, but.

D

Like I had planned to reintroduce it once, I knew how to fix it. Okay, but I.

D

Don't know how to fix it right now attorney sherman. How do we withdraw this.

T

I must consent to accept withdrawal of the amendment. I'm moving animas consent.

D

To withdraw amendment for second, it's been moved and seconded. Can we do a just.

D

Voice voting sent all in favor down the the row. We can't do voice votes on these.

T

But tonight all those yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes all right! So we've dispatched with.

A

Amendment for we are now going back to the ordinance as a whole, sponsor council.

A

Member zsimmons, you will make it to the ordinance as a whole. Oh thank you. You go.

A

Back to the amendment, which we can then decide, do we want to refer to another.

A

Discussion or do pass it tonight correct, but before we do that- and I want to.

G

Check with mr. shermin part of this discussion is that we would take it back.

G

To another committee of the whole in two weeks, do we don't have the option to.

G

Deal with this at regular session next week and resolve it at that point or not.

G

I'm trying not to take this two more weeks to to a committee the whole yeah. I.

A

Wanted this seems odd to do that, but from the draft motion tonight was at the.

A

End of this discussion, we can either continue the committee deliberation on.

A

February 26th or return the ordinance to the council with a due pass.

A

Recommendation council, member bowen, I would respectfully ask that we go to a.

D

Second committee: we have a pretty full agenda on the 19th there's a I mean I.

D

You know have enough on my plate, as it is without trying to figure out how to.

D

Fix this amendment, you know like that. Moving to pass on the 19th is tantamount.

D

To leaving out discussion of the administrative fee, I don't know that I'm.

D

Going to be able to prepare an amendment in time, I'd have to get it done by.

D

Tomorrow or friday at least get it into a packet.

D

There we've got conflicting evidence, you know whatever the council wants to do.

D

But this is why I thought that it should go all the way through to march 4th.

D

Thank you, sir, a second for them the committee. The whole cannot continue.

D

Itself, we have to recommit the committee the whole at the 19th. That's the problem.

D

With this forum, mr. sherman, I believe when this matter was referred to the.

T

Committee of the whole, it gave the committee the holy option to pick it up.

T

For the next committee of the whole, so it can do that and that's one that's our.

D

Ability and that's what you were proposing. Yes, it can go back to you. Can.

T

Report back next week, if you wish, if you're undecided, you could have a.

T

Recommendation that essentially, it appears on your agenda next week, but you.

T

Are recommend consideration and a further date, like march 4th? Those are so.

T

Different approaches, I move that we recommit to committee of the whole on.

D

February 26th that's been moved and seconded any discussion on that can't.

A

Remember rollo, you know, council president valen since.

R

He sits the the agenda or sets the schedule for the council and if he feels.

R

It's you know it's getting pressed that we should respect that yeah any other.

A

Comment counts, remember, lay already, yeah customer will and cited conflicting.

E

Evidence or or not enough evidence to figure out what to do with a possible.

E

Amendment for administrative fee and a lack of the ability to deal with it in.

E

The next two days, but I guess I'm wondering what evidence you think will.

E

Come to light that will allow you to craft something meaningful. I mean.

E

There's too much directors point it's kind of at some point. A case can be made.

E

Always for some different amount at some point, we're just going to have to decide.

E

What we think is reasonable and go with it and whether that's building in the.

E

Admin fee into into the base rate and and just dispensing of via the idea of.

E

An admin fee all together and saying you know 175 185. Whatever the case is this.

E

This is what you can charge and that's it so, michael, I guess my question is.

E

What do you think we can accomplish a committee of the whole that necessitates.

E

That I'm just curious to hear more well, I don't think the committee there has to.

D

Be long as everyone knows, I did not recommend committee of the whole to do.

D

Not want to impose that on everybody, but at a loss, a train of thought because.

D

It's late and this is cut part of the point- I'm tired I've been thinking for.

D

The past five hours and trying to stay focused and open to everyone. If what.

D

This is really a vote on whether or not we want to consider the question at all.

D

Of the administrative fee, and I would ask you to ask them whether you think.

D

You've done enough thinking on it. If somebody else wants to propose a different amendment between now and next week, they can, if, if someone wants me to.

D

Continue working on this amendment, then you know like with land use committee. We.

D

Have two weeks between the two hearings and one of the in the first week is the.

D

Time that we have with just tonight, we can recommit it to a second, maybe the.

D

Land use committee we have a week, we asked the members of the committee to.

D

Come up with whatever reasonable conditions are going to by next wednesday at noon, and that goes into the packet on friday and people.

D

Have a chance to review them before they're discussed, so there's no time to.

D

Do that in one week this has been the point all alone. If I have time to.

D

Develop a better amendment where I can consult with people, anyone who is an.

D

Interest in it, including members of council, that's enough time, if not that's.

D

Fine, if a council effectively the accounts, we'll be voting on no.

D

Administrative fee, if we don't recommit to a meeting of the 26th.

A

Councilmember sims mike councilmember rollo part of and I think we have a.

G

Motion on the floor, I can agree with that, but I will say he was also correct.

G

And that the president sets the agenda, or we talked about that and as the.

G

President, so eloquently stated that that's part of the problem and that he's.

G

Tired and so are all of us, but then I'll go back to where we schedule and plan on.

G

The agenda, and if this is a problem at 11:30 on a wednesday night, then let's.

G

Talk about that at tuesday afternoon, at 4:00 in the afternoon, and that's all I.

G

Have to say, and thank you and I'm not so sure it even requires a response, but you.

G

Have that right? Mr. president, any other comment I will remind mr. simms that.

D

I've consistently suggested to him that we take more calendar time so that we.

D

Don't have to be talking after 11:00 p.m. this is the thing everybody's been.

D

Trying to go against so with all due respect this ordinance if it was more.

D

Ready, we wouldn't have been sending it to so much discussion. It needed more.

D

Work and it's not a reflection on councilmember sims or the people who.

D

Developed it before him, but a legislation needs time calendar time, not.

D

Clock time, I would urge you to recommit to the 26th. Thank you. I would just like.

A

To state that I'm not necessarily in favor of rehashing this out again, we've.

A

Been through this quite a bit, we've gotten great feedback from the.

A

Stakeholders we got an extra opportunity to have more.

A

Back and forth than we normally do from public comment. I agree with some of the.

A

Things that staff has said that this is kind of unusual for us to tilt the.

A

Scales so much in favor I'm ready to go, I'm I would be ready to return the.

A

Ordinance to the council with some sort of a recommendation tonight, so I won't.

A

Necessarily be supporting this, but I certainly respect people on the council.

A

Who feel that this needs more baking, I'm ready to vote on it tonight recommend.

D

Recall the question: what just don't I don't I don't think was attention. I.

E

Don't think you answer my question which was: do you think there is more.

E

Information that you can learn in in two weeks time. Yes, that will make this.

E

Better, you think there is something you can find out, because we did hear information about it tonight, of course, but okay just wanted to clarify. Thank.

E

You all right, anyone else are you. Is it your proposal to send this entire.

L

Ordinance amendment four to council next week, or is that am I understanding.

L

Correctly that at that point in time an amendment could be proposed or during.

A

The regular session, if somebody doesn't want to bring that back into it with.

A

More clarity, though, okay, so do we vote on each amendment next week. So what what.

A

If we were- and you know this is not what's on the table, what's on the table,.

A

Is to refer it back to another committee. The whole discussion so we'll either be.

A

Voting that up or down in just a few minutes, I'm just stating my preferences.

A

To return it to a regular session where any amendment work could be done at that.

A

Point based on what we have been through already got it. Thank you. I appreciate.

A

That anything else, all right, we've had a.

A

Motion who had we had a second all right, so let me start on the left with this is.

A

Moving it to the committee of the whole on february, 26, correct! Yes, yes, yes, no! No!.

A

No, no, yes, all right, and so it is three yes or no. So do we need to have the next.

A

Amendment offer I mean the next motion to return the ordinance to the council.

A

With a due pass recommendation, or is that already going to automatically.

A

Happen recommend do pass all right, it's been moved and seconded, and this is what.

A

We are now voting on is the ordinance with the amendments and that's where we.

A

Are any discussion on that before we go all right, starting on my right? Yes, yes,.

A

Yes, yes, yes,.

M

No, no all right and that passes five to two. So there is no more business left on.

A

Our agenda this evening so to adjourn. We are adjourned.

Y