City of Bloomington, Indiana Historic Preservation Commission, 28 May 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission, May 28, 2020

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meeting packet: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5845

A

I probably learned to desert historic preservation cases zoom into order for.

B

May 28 2020. Thank you. Everybody for joining us.

B

We need approval for the minutes. Our last meeting, which was so moved, is I.

C

Mean okay, who made the motion in who seconded.

D

Yes, okay, all right are we going to take roll okay, doug, briefs plan de sóller.

D

President or sort of present susan dyer yeah jeff golden available deb hutton.

D

Lease and weiss here, john saunders, yeah krister bomb duncan campbell.

D

Ernesto castaneda here derek richie.

D

Jenni southern yeah: okay, now for the approval of the minute.

D

Sam solar, yes, susan dyer, yes, jeff golden, yes, lise and.

D

White, I'm stayin john saunders. Yes, mr. baum, I don't think he's here yeah. I see.

D

Him down there.

E

There you go christophe, he's, probably muted yeah.

D

You're unmuted, so minutes moved. Okay, all right motion carries or minutes carry.

D

Five one zero all right: let's move on to coa and staff review, which is 19, so this.

E

Was a staff approval? It was essentially a restoration work done on. This appears.

E

To be a original accessory structure to this building here is view from moulin.

E

Avenue it's an elm heights, historic district.

E

The majority of the work was restoration and repair, including prepare of the.

E

Siding new roof new gutters they're going to be putting some trim down at.

E

The bottom, instead of the siding and they're going to be replacing these.

E

There's four of these three over one windows, again they're maintained the.

E

Same size, style and paint configuration and they're also going to be made out of.

E

Wood and then one would one window you can't see in this picture. It's on a.

E

Gable and over here will be prepared, so style approved this work move on to.

B

Commission review and a coa 20-20 we've seen this one before 35 south rogers.

E

About a year ago, we approved changing out some original windows and we're back.

E

Again now for a fence request, so this is the prospect hill, historic district, the.

E

Request is to install a 4-foot picket fence around the front side of the home.

E

So what you see and yellow would be the four-foot eye.

E

And then, as it transitions you to the rear and the side, the rear of the home.

F

They're going to make it a six foot tall privacy fence, so this is a coa for.

E

Fencing when you look at the guidelines, backyard fences are appropriate in.

E

Prospect hill, however front yard fencing is.

E

Characterized as well, not in the character of the neighborhood, so the.

E

Staff finds at the wood and the style, picking on the front yard fence is.

E

Appropriate, however, the guidelines specifically mentioned that front yard.

E

Fencing is inappropriate and discourages its use. The wood privacy fence in the.

E

Back yard is appropriate or the stopper pose is a horizontal orientation. I.

E

Believe the guidelines show pictures of article orientation, fences historically.

E

Properties in this district up relied on landscaping and retaining walls to.

E

Really create that line between public and private space. So if fences that.

E

Utilize traditional styles and materials to conform of the codes fence, height.

E

Standards really, overall of a minimum and minimal impact on the character of.

E

The district in the house itself, you know fencing. I want the commission to.

E

Keep in mind doesn't really result in the loss of any architectural features.

E

Or materials historic buildings themselves and they're really a.

E

Permanent feature that can be removed in the future, so overall staff would.

E

Recommend approval the backyard fence as requested and denial, the front yard.

E

Fence I didn't want to bring one more thing to light before we begin questions.

E

And discussion, through a conversation with planning yesterday it was a terming.

E

That the petitioners request to build a frame fed to the front here is actually.

E

Not on their property, their property line stops here, so the petitioner would.

E

Actually need an encroachment permit or whatever to be.

E

Able to build a front fence here also, since it's a corner lot, city planning.

E

Considers both facades along the rogers and prospect street as the front of the.

E

House, so what this means for fencing is that max fence height in the in front of.

E

The building wall can only be four feet. That's an issue when you get to here.

E

Because this petitioner has the fence at six feet- and this is in front of the.

E

Front building wall, which is shown by my blue line here, would need to be four.

E

Feet that this is where it's being built now, if the petitioner bumps it back here,.

E

To where it's behind the front building wall, then it can certainly be six to.

E

Eight feet tall, um however, as a stand, since it's in front the orange section.

E

Here really- and this is not ok from planning standard- so jackie wanted me to.

E

Convey that to the commission, here's an example of the wood pick ed. Here's the.

E

Example of the privacy fence: okay, all right: let's move on to questions duncan.

B

A question so that well we're doing duncan first good. I thought so I just.

G

Didn't hear anything yeah yeah yeah leave the room. Well, it sounds like first.

H

Of all, it doesn't meet the guidelines, which is pretty major. Second of all, it's.

H

Not the right place to meet even to meet planning requirements which is double.

H

Major and the backyard fence doesn't appear to be the right style. I don't.

H

Think that's as important! Maybe- but I don't with this, because these.

H

Neighborhoods were built so that you can walk through them, see through them, be.

H

Active through them and more and more we've allowed them to privatize their.

H

Yards to the point, where some places you can't even see the houses anymore, so I.

H

Guess I more or less support the backyard notion, because people want.

H

Outdoor privacy, these days- but I don't really- I don't really see a resolution.

H

For the front yard fence, does the owner know about what planning is going to.

H

Require in terms of where that fence would be located, I don't think the owner.

E

Has spoken to the owner.

I

Hi everyone, michael chorus, realtor with maxim real estate. We have this house.

I

Listed also on the meeting I see jamie morris is the buyer's agent for this.

I

Particular house- and I think I also saw that potential buyers are here as well.

I

Hasn't been read from our petition is that a potential buyer.

I

Have a newborn, and also a dog and one cool thing: if you look at the front of.

I

This house is that it has an awesome front porch, which these potential buyers.

I

Would love to use without the worry of their child or dog running out into.

I

Either of those streets that border this house, so we actually have an offer that.

I

Is contingent upon some sort of fencing that allows them to be able to use that.

I

Front porch and enjoy it the other thing that picture I mean it was just.

I

I believe jamie who's on this call. I think it was a just a sketch. We have.

I

They didn't meet with planning, it was just a sketch, so they're not going to.

I

Build a fence on the city property, so they they, whatever setbacks that are.

I

Required there is what they would do, but the biggest thing on that front fence.

I

And one they wanted it to be picket, so it wouldn't cover up the house at all. I.

I

Don't think they would probably mind if that back portion of the house, that.

I

Backyard fence on prospect were shorter or continued to be the picket, but.

I

They're there on the phone- and it truly is, was their design and you know I don't.

I

Think they're set on they're set on working with you guys to to come up with.

I

A solution that that works and allows them to buy this house if, if we don't, if.

I

We don't get something I guess I'll go attempt to sell the house again. Jamie is.

I

On this call and she's the one that kind of helped with pictures and drawings and.

I

Stuff, like that.

J

No necessarily questions, but I do agree with.

J

Duncan's assessment of the situation on the fair instance, these houses were.

J

Designed to be much more transparent times are different now, so I wouldn't be.

J

Opposed to have something in the back of the house for privacy, and you know.

J

Safety of you know, dogs and kids. That's all I have well. I don't think planning.

K

Is saying they can't have fencing in the back of the house matter of fact, I.

K

Believe the fencing height is raised, maybe even to eight feet, I'm not sure if.

K

That's appropriate historically, it's just the style of the backyard fence.

K

That I think, was being objected to because it's horizontal, which is a very.

K

Modern 60 70 s, five for this particular house, the picket fence. Also it seemed to.

K

Me is too tall in the front yard. I'm not sure I've ever seen a forfeit picket.

K

Fence I've seen three feet or feets like chest: high right yeah. So it's it's very.

K

Tall and also it's possible, if they really want to use the front porch that.

K

They could ask for a little gate on the porch itself so that they can go out.

K

There I don't know that can be removable after the child is old enough, not to run.

K

Out into the street, I think I've seen little gates on houses of this sort, so.

K

It might not be a big deal between the two entry posts. That's it. Thank you.

B

Chris, I agree with staff about the front fence and I think the fence on prospect.

G

Needs to be shorter and transparent, I you really can't see the rest of it and.

G

They can certainly enclose the side and the back and have good use for their dog.

G

And they sell all kinds of special gates that would work and wouldn't even need.

G

Approval, I think they're there child gates that they could put on their on.

G

Their front porch and keep the child safe.

B

Did you hear oh, was that your question chris? Are you having to hear me? Yes, yes,.

G

Oh, I guess I commented didn't I I did too sorry about that. I have no.

G

Questions, I have a comment. I don't have any questions thanks. No questions.

L

Comments for sure, but no questions, I'm sorry. I missed you.

B

It's okay. I don't have any question. I think I already made my comment. No, no.

J

Comments, thank you. I think I made mine too sorry about that.

K

Guys, I think those are the fence in the back so kay. I really think, though, where.

G

You see it from prospect, it should be. It should be that picket style, hopefully.

G

Painted white okay further comments: I.

F

Agree with the staff recommendations, I do also agree with. I, like the.

F

Possibility of exploring a kind of a fence for that front porch to keep the.

F

Child safe and the dog safe, if that's possible, to end that that's a beautiful.

F

Porch and it'd be a shame for them not to be able to enjoy it out of a discrete.

F

Gate would allow that.

F

And so that's it, let's see so I read through the guidelines and what they're.

L

Asking for on fencing, I would support fencing. That was, I mean it's a corner, a.

L

Lot so both facades on each street front are.

L

Considered front facades so you've got to move the front fence back to the.

L

Halfway point of corner, would you go to the little diagram with that yeah there.

L

You go so the the fence along south rogers has to go back to the middle area.

L

About that, where his cursor, it was to the middle of the you know, middle of the.

L

Front facade along the back from south rogers, also to the middle of the facade.

L

On the west prospect, which is almost to the edge of the back of the garage so.

L

You're, basically you're fencing can only enclose sort of the back quarter. The.

L

Sort of north east corner of the yard so along the alley and along the north, face.

L

Of the lot, I don't have a problem with the high fence. The way I read the.

L

Guidelines, they don't want any horizontal fencing, so I am thinking that.

L

That fencing, regardless of what it is, has to be some kind of vertical picket.

L

Ish fencing, although you could do a vertical board fencing and it should be.

L

Shorter on the halfway points, I don't think that I support the previous.

L

Comments that you could work with some kind of temporary gate on the porch.

L

But I would be opposed to a sort of horizontal fencing along the back having.

L

Read the guidelines and a high fencing at the halfway points I think per the.

L

Guidelines and per planning this sort of sweet spot is you got to have a low.

L

Fence at the midpoints and I sent the back things, but they all thought to be.

L

Vertical, that's what I got. Don't hey guys. I haven't had a chance to comment.

M

Yet it's susan, that's! Okay! I just had a quick question. Connor. It looks like a.

M

Long rogers street the property line is right along the front of the house.

M

Anyway, yeah: that's what we determine with planning, so they couldn't build.

E

That fence or the yellow line indicates, however, I believe michael just kind of.

E

Said this was just a rough drawing they would so it would just run. I mean even.

M

If, if everyone approved it, it would have to just run where that blue line is yeah.

M

Which is along the front of the house, so they wouldn't really have a front yard.

M

Be aware that the gids is not exact, okay, fair enough, I think sam summed it up.

M

Really nicely so that's it so jeff! I just want to follow up on what.

E

You said somebody is it's not exact and that's true, but this is what they use in.

E

Planning, so you know it can be up to the owner to show that the property line.

E

Actually runs here to the sidewalk.

E

Absolutely I'm guessing that the property line is not at the front of the.

C

House yeah, it might be just a really awful.

B

Baby are you here? Yes, I'm here. This is jamie morris from century 21 sheets. I'm.

N

Representing the buyers who have an accepted offer on this property- and I.

N

Guess you know the. I think that the buyer would like to speak in a moment or.

N

Has some comments or questions, but I spent quite a bit of time driving all.

N

Through prospect hill and took dozens of photos of homes that have front fences.

N

And I saw every type of fence from picket fence to aluminum fencing to.

N

Chain-Link fencing in prospect hill now the chain link fence, looked pretty old.

N

So it may have been existing before this committee was active, but there's a.

N

Really excellent example at 620 west 4th street on the corner of fairview and.

N

Fourth, that has a very similar setup. It's a corner lot. It's got the picket.

N

Fence in the front, it goes all the way out to the sidewalk hires. You know.

N

They're flexible with where the fencing can go, they don't want to break any.

N

Rules or or do any kind of variance with the fencing it is mostly for safety. The.

N

The front porch is very unique in that it has two staircases with approximately.

N

Four or five steps coming off on the north side and the south side and.

N

Ideally, with a pet and a child, the thought is, if they're enjoying time on.

N

The front porch and the dog wants to run to the back yard. It's it's a fluid.

N

Transition from the porch to the back yard, with a child or if you're out doing.

N

Yard work or anything like that.

N

It is not so much that they want it exactly as it's drawn there and it isn't.

N

So much that it has to be horizontal, but they do want a little bit of privacy in.

N

The back and I'm just curious if, if these fences aren't allowed in the front.

N

How do the people, who have them, get them and and maintain them a lot of these.

E

Fences were bill, probably before these areas became.

E

Historic districts, like you alluded to with the chain-link fence the fence. You.

E

Showed us- or you you pointed to on west 4th street, is a different historic.

E

District, that's greater prospectivity of different guidance on fencing. This is.

E

Prospect hill, proper historic district, which has separate guidelines from.

E

Greater prospect hill- and you know we try our best to follow the guidelines.

E

And in this case, they they explicitly mention front yard, fencing as as.

E

Uncharacteristic so the prospect hill, historic district is just a little area.

E

You know maybe a couple streets to the west here and down to madison. So so.

E

There were different historic districts and to your question that 4th street.

G

Fence, if it's the one I'm thinking of wasn't built to city code or historic.

G

Code, it's a six foot fence all along I'm just saying that wasn't built took.

G

Anybody's code- I don't have any at this time, but I do think josh and abby kelly.

N

Who are the prospective? Buyers, are on the line and and would like to make.

N

Comments: okay, great well, thanks so much for allowing us to speak, I'm my wife is.

O

With our newborn, she just woke up from a nap. I wish we could introduce him to.

O

Everybody, but first off, I think you know one of the big things that drew us to.

O

This house was the historic nature. I'm from bloomington I've lived up in indy.

O

For about ten years now, I grew up out on the west side in a.

O

House that was built around 1864, so you know having a very good understanding of.

O

Maintaining historic character of home is very important to both of us and.

O

That's really why we wanted to find this places. We were looking to come back to.

O

Bloomington and raise our family, but with that I also know that you know.

O

Rogers is a is a busy street there's a lot of activity there, whether it's just.

O

Kind of daily traffic going back and forth, or you know, people coming and.

O

Going from the hospital whatever it might be, and so you know with that, it's.

O

Just really important we'd love to be able to use the whole yard and try to.

O

Have some type of barrier that is as unobtrusive as possible to try and keep.

O

You know this one child safe, we hope to grow our family. A lot more, you know, have.

O

A dog, maybe a few dogs, whatever it might be, but just be able to have that space and be able to enjoy the whole property.

O

Without kind of restricting the ability for people in the community to enjoy the.

O

Property as well, and so I would say when whether it comes to hi defense, the exact.

O

Location, I will be having a survey or come to the property on june, 8th to.

O

Figure out exactly where the corners are, because that drawing looks like it does.

O

Conflict with planning a little bit- and you certainly don't want to try to do.

O

That, hopefully, the property line is indeed not running kind of through the.

O

Front porch there like it, looks like, but either way. I think the big thing is you.

O

Know we just want to be as cooperative as possible and try to you know, take.

O

Feedback from the commission to try to get to something that allows both our.

O

Family to enjoy the property in a way that's consistent with its historic.

O

Nature and also still allows the community to enjoy that as well. And I.

O

Think that's why the picket fence was selected, the height I don't know for.

O

Sure I'm happy to take any feedback on the height and do something that's.

O

Certainly consistent with historic guidelines and then the horizontal.

O

Fencing that was really done with the idea to try to maintain as much you know.

O

Visibility as possible, so people could still see through it a little bit even.

O

Though giving us a little bit of privacy in the backyard, so that's really the.

O

Main thing, I would really you know, ask that the commission. I really appreciate.

O

The points that have been made they're- certainly very pher. We don't want to do anything that you know, has a negative impact on the.

O

Character of the neighborhood by any means, but I would ask if there's any way.

O

To try and give feedback allow us an opportunity to try to set something up.

O

Here that does you know, let us keep the kids safe from going out in the yard and.

O

Letting them enjoy the whole property and then also balance that, with letting.

O

The community enjoy the property as well. So thank you again for the time, and I.

O

Hope that clarifies a little bit of where we're coming from no thank you. I'd.

G

Move that we support the staff recommendation, with the exception of the.

G

Lower fence along prospect, I don't think that's quite clear enough. I can't I I.

L

Think that we have to address the midpoint issue of the facade in this.

L

Motion and I'll be happy to tackle that, if that's okay, to approve something.

E

Right now before mr. kelly can get the survey or its back, and we could really.

E

See where the property lines are, I I hear that, but I think that the issue is.

L

Not necessarily the property lines, I think. Let me let me let me try something.

L

Here and and if, if it tricks out great, if we'll wait till the survey comes back.

L

I would move to approve a fencing situation where a low fence at the.

L

Midpoint of the facade, measured back from both west prospect and south.

L

Rogers in a vertical picket, either between three and four feet and along.

L

The property line of the alley- that is, an alley on the backside and the.

L

Property line north of prospect street at a higher per planning height and with.

L

Vertical, but either pickets or boards. I think that will I think that will.

L

Satisfy both the guidelines and planning and they can put gates wherever they.

L

Want and they can put gates along, especially temporary gates, along their.

L

Front porch, second, to that I did lee we okay. Thank you.

D

Okay, I ask a clarifying question. um I think I understand that the midpoint.

G

We're talking about is a long prospect and that the lower fence is going east.

G

Along prospect from the midpoint of that facade along prospect street is that.

G

Correct there's two midpoints because it's a corner lot. You have a midpoint of.

L

The facade along the north side of the house for the back fence parallel to.

L

Rogers, you have the midpoint of the facade on the east side of the house.

L

That's going to be parallel to west prospect street. That makes sense what.

G

You're talking about is north of the north side. Right side say that again.

L

Chris, your midpoints are on the north and the south side of the property. No.

L

There's no thing because it there's a corner a lot and we're going to have a.

L

Midpoint of the facade on of the north side for the offense that.

L

Is parallel to south roger street and you are going to have a midpoint of the.

L

Facade along the south side of the house for the fence that is parallel to west.

L

Prospect street there's going to be some fence that basically runs between the.

L

Back of the house and the garage and there's going to be some low fence that.

L

Runs between the sort of the house, midpoint of the north side of the house.

L

And that property along the to the north, this is confusing that the facade facing.

G

Rogers is the west facade true and there we're not proposing a fence on that.

G

Facade, as I know, we're proposing a fence halfway back of the side of the house on.

G

The north and south sides on the north side of the house there's the fence that.

L

Runs north-south! That's parallel to the south roger street! Right! That's going to.

L

Be sort of halfway between if you measure half way, you know half way down.

L

The house, because the north-south is the back of the house exactly well. No, it's a.

L

Corner lot, chris right know what it is so you're gonna have a fence that runs.

L

North-South halfway down the house to the north of the house and you're gonna.

L

Have a fence that runs east-west halfway down the house that runs between.

L

Basically, the house and the garage and those both have to be set back, half way.

L

Because both of those facades are basically considered front facades right.

B

You're talking about dissing, I'm on the same page, because any time that then.

B

Where the sidewalk connects to prospect street so we're talking where the, where.

B

The bump-out is where the kitchen is, I don't know what the you can corner can.

L

You like move your finger. Yeah. Can you move the cursor okay, so move your cursor.

L

To the right to the midpoint of the east side, no, I'm.

L

Sorry, the wet yet east side of the sasada. I don't see your cursor yeah so.

L

Midpoint, midpoint of the east facade, that's the south facade there. You go dad.

L

And then so from that point directly right to the east to the garage.

L

That's one fence: that's sort of the midpoint, that's one! That's planning yeah,.

L

And then, if you go sort of midpoint of the facade to the north of the house,.

L

There you go right about there if you go north from there, that's where the second.

L

Low fence happens: does that make sense? Yes, okay, so I'm talking about low fence.

L

In those two locations gates, wherever you want and then from the sort of north.

L

East corner of the property back to those two points you can have a high.

L

Fence that makes it, and my proposal had been to follow that orange dotted line.

G

On the prospect side and allow that short fence to be out that close to the.

G

Street, so I think now we have a clarification motion. Those I think we.

B

Need to take a vote on that and then nobody agrees. Then we can go back and.

B

Yeah, I think chris made the motion before that, though it wasn't. Second, okay,.

B

Okay, congress is gesturing there. We just.

B

Table this into the next meeting, patricia mery get their survey down and.

B

Then we can get sam can put together his proposal and chris can put together this.

B

Proposal and we'll just take it up on our next meeting. I don't know that that.

L

Would affect my proposal at all because we're the property lines happen.

L

Doesn't really affect my proposal? Okay, the problem with your proposal. Sam, is, I.

E

Don't think everyone fully understands it without a visual in front of them. I.

E

Think we know what we were voting on if we had no a visual of worried that fence.

E

And the heights are going to be on the property gotcha.

L

Okay, let me let me draw something real, quick and see if I can make sure it if.

L

We can't, then, I totally agree with you.

K

Suggestions, I think the problem here is that planning has different ideas of.

K

Where the fence goes and there's is actually stricter than what we, what.

K

Chris was proposing: we've ran into that a couple of times over in our.

K

Neighborhood and because it's because of the corner lot, and it actually requires.

K

A variance unless the code is changed to bring that even a short fit. Well, you.

K

Could do a short fence, I think all the way out to rogers, but they can't have.

K

Their stockade fence back there, so even if we said oh yeah, do that it wouldn't.

K

Be legal because they need a variance from planning that help it all or make.

K

K

There's, where you have your cursor as we're planning would say they could have.

K

Offense short, not at all one where your cursor was gone up. Yeah you share. Yes,.

L

Let me know when it's shareable all right: try it down! Okay! So can you guys.

L

See that, oh, let me stop pause. My share. You try see you yeah. No, it's not. Let me.

L

Do what I want to do? Oh technology, you have a little green button at the bottom.

K

It's a share screen. I got an idea. Give me just a sec I'll change this to good.

L

Thing hang on and let me label a couple of things: real.

L

Fast, why are we seeing duncan screen.

M

Thank you duncan.

L

Oh, that's terrible handwriting, sorry, okay, just to fill the blank time if.

G

Petitioner were to propose something for the next meeting that is in line with.

G

The discussions we've had and with some input from planning we might have a very.

G

Clean decision to make at the next meeting.

B

This is jamie morris again sorry, I hid the raise hand button, but I don't know.

N

If anybody's monitoring that I just one more time, our closing date is quickly.

N

Approaching and the potential buyers, so we do have a very time-sensitive matter.

N

Here, as far as that, what's the date of the next meeting, okay from a proposed.

N

Closing date, which is a pretty tight timeline when you're really looking.

N

Another city: hey connor. Yes, I just emailed you a really bad sketch, so try.

L

That and I'm sorry to interrupt, but I think I know exactly what you were.

I

Talking about on that sketch- and I just wanted to mention- I put it in the chat- I.

I

Don't know if anybody saw that, but the only yeah actually that's exactly what I.

I

Thought you were thinking. The only egress on this house is on the south.

I

Side of the house, so the people would have to walk outside.

I

Their dog to the backyard go back, get the dog walk it back into the house with.

I

This particular proposal- I hear that, does that clarify the motion.

L

Enough to vote on it, though, is there an opportunity for public comment prior to.

O

The vote. Okay. Thank you. I would certainly say if it is possible. This is.

O

Very informative- and I think, definitely gives a lot of encouragement to us that.

O

The commission is willing to work with us to have a fence put in place and if.

O

Given the opportunity it would, you know, be great for us to work with planning.

O

And perhaps consult some members of the commission in a different context to get.

O

Additional guidance on how to put together a new proposal, because this one.

O

As presented, certainly, does you know bring forth some unique challenges as.

O

Far as being able to in turn exit the house and keep everybody safe, so I would.

O

Love the opportunity to try and adjust the proposal after we have a survey with.

O

Consultation from planning and some additional questions to the commission.

O

Staff and members, if possible, thank you, josh. We still have this on the table and.

B

I think you still need to take care of that. So let's go ahead and do we don't.

L

Have a second, yet, though, do we, you can withdraw. Yes, you can withdraw I'm going.

F

B

Josh you go ahead and meet with us and planning, and we for let me get something.

B

Worked out for you, thank you very much. I appreciate it and look forward to the.

O

Next meeting and when the agenda 309 south davidson street and every coa 2021.

B

This is a contributing property built circa 1910, located in the grand prospect.

E

Hill historic district due to lapse in insurance coverage and.

E

Poor structural condition of the building, the petitioner has not been.

E

Able to secure insurance on the home or a builder's loan, so she is requesting to.

E

Demolish this house, with the plans of rebuilding on site, a structure, that's.

E

Basically, within the same footprint, so I've walked the site three times. I can.

E

Confirm the poor condition of the home, both inside and out. I know the.

E

Application didn't show pictures on the inside of the home, but it's pretty poor.

E

What the application did show is the important parts which is the structural.

E

Condition of the home, notably the foundation and roof based on kevin.

E

Potter's report and the report of the petitioners builder, the city was.

E

Prepared to give the structure and unsafe attack.

E

However, that didn't happen basically kind of stalled and never went anywhere.

E

So, while all the construction, this house is obviously substandard, as we saw in.

E

The petitioner statement and the structural report, the architectural.

E

Style is not unique or rare hearings in bloomington. It's not necessarily an.

E

Endangered architectural style, but we saw on west seventh street the sheer.

E

Cost to make this structure livable again seems really outweigh any.

E

Incentive to make it to do so and finally, demolition is supported by.

E

The neighborhood three members of the greater prospect hill committee affirmed.

E

Their support for demolition of the structure to me and emails, so staff.

E

Would recommend approval coa, 2021, alright, we're gonna be questions duncan.

B

I question some of the figures in the petition: I've worked on houses, worse.

H

Than this, it didn't cost me $25,000 to pick it up and put a foundation under it.

H

I don't, I think the arguments are. Some of the arguments are pretty good, but I.

H

Think they basically are trying to persuade us to tear it down as opposed.

H

To trying to persuade us to save it- and I I think you know this is a this- is a.

H

Historic district, so I I just don't think those numbers are reflect. My.

H

Experience no questions at this time. Thank you.

K

I was wondering on the particular pictures you have right now. Are those.

K

Cedar shakes or something up in the roof.

K

um How long has the present owner owned the house hi everybody? My name is aviva.

P

Ornstein, I purchased the house, I'm pretty sure in december of 2017 and part.

P

Of the problem is without being able to get a mortgage, I've been moving very slowly on it, trying to save up cash, and the first thing we did was dig a trench.

P

To me there was water just flowing in and under the house, and drainage has.

P

Been a huge problem, I'll talk more if you're interested, but I would so my goal.

P

Is to start, if you folks, let me demolish my.

P

Would be to start this summer to respond to? I think it's mr. campbell's comment.

P

About the numbers, I do have some some more updated numbers. I am not a builder.

P

And I don't so, I've been sort of relying on other people's kind of ballpark.

P

Assessments, but we got some more exact numbers which I gave to common just.

P

Today and I'd be happy to share those numbers which I think will probably.

P

Strike you as more realistic- and I you know, I'm sort of going on what I I can.

P

Understand from people what the costs are, and I think they appear to be less.

P

Than I first imagined when I first did it, but all right, my argument is not just.

P

About cost, but I mean I'll, be quiet until you folks are done with questions.

P

And then I'm devastated, I did not have any input from the committee. Do you have.

G

The names of the three who supported this demolition- yes, john vitello dog,.

E

Whistling and patrick murray and me I guess I would ask maybe this is a.

G

General question, but how much different is this then many of the houses on the.

G

West side and aren't we then just allowing houses to be demolished for the.

G

Property value just the property but beneath the house and then I'm sure it's.

G

A contributing structure, you know constricting structures are not.

G

Insignificant that they're there the makeup of the whole district. So I just.

G

Don't like this president, but I'm thinking the foundation needs a little.

G

Help but it's not on piers, it's it's a traditional limestone foundation.

G

You know the roofs never been been torn off since it was built, as you can tell.

G

From the shakes under the other three layers, I mean it needs a lot of work, but.

G

You know that was the condition of much of the westside, so I'm just thinking am.

G

I I'm asking- maybe maybe I should ask staff, what's what distinguishes this as.

G

A property that merits demolition rather than repair restore. That's a tough.

E

Question chris, you know it's the same question that we see over and over again.

E

To me, this is very similar to a demolition request we had last summer in.

E

Greater prospect hill, jim rosenberger, his little gable l house, he was.

E

Requesting demolition to me, these are very similar. They both have pretty major.

E

Structural problems, but both times the neighborhood supported demolition and.

E

Neither of those were particularly unique or endangered as far as.

E

Architectural style goes meaning that there are other structures similar to.

E

Those in bloomington- and so I think, that's partially why the commission.

E

Decided to let jim's property go, and I just saw that this case was very similar.

E

To that case- and you know looking at the past- we've allowed it to go. So that's.

E

Why I supported demolition? I was wondering if zoning changes we may get.

G

The same kind of pressure on smaller houses when people want to make larger.

G

Projects or duplexes or triplexes are we setting a precedent and we think we may.

G

Be setting a precedent that would just make many of the old houses disposable.

G

And work against affordability. That way the property will still be subject to.

C

The guidelines that are pretty clear that you couldn't build a well, maybe you.

C

Could be able to duplex, it was still have to fit the guideline.

G

Understand that that's my general question, as I said, I support this in the.

C

Spirit of the way that this historic district was formed, this is, I hate this.

C

Term, but it describes it pretty well historic light. This house again is not.

C

Anything special and it sounds like that. The property owner is going to build.

C

Something that fits in nicely with the neighborhood. That was not a question no.

B

Questions pass for now. Yes, thank you, john. I think I think this house has a.

J

Lot of character in my might not be considered a unique structure, but that's.

J

How the westside neighborhood was built with houses like this, with this.

J

Character, I think it has great value, even in the shape that it is. There are.

J

Great examples of how bri has restored structures in in really bad shape, much.

J

Worse than this one- and I think, there's still something to rescue from this.

J

Really, nice structure, I think I have to admit I'm surprised that he got support.

J

From the prospera hill, some of the neighbors I'm.

J

Surprised about that, I would be more for trying to restore the existing character.

J

Of the of the house, thinking has great value. That's all I have for now.

J

Matt point out that that's not the house, that's for a while! I'm here! No, I don't.

M

Have any questions I walk by this house every day and I'm sorry that it's fallen.

M

Into such disrepair, it's it's a tough one. Now that pretty much was it had to.

K

Unmute myself, I must say that um I can think of a lot of people that would be.

K

Very excited to get a house in prospect hill in this condition, if fred bought.

K

Houses in this condition- and you know we're excited to get them play at a.

K

Fairly, affordable price, I'm not sure how much they you paid for it, but I probably.

K

Would have been very excited to look at this house, um so I'm I'm a little.

K

Worried about you know: what's gonna go back there, I understand wanting to start.

K

With a fresh slate, but I really hate to see it go down. I think it has potential.

K

Probably put an addition on it and.

K

I'm a little worried because all the houses along there have a lot of.

K

Interest in them and there's smaller houses and they're fairly affordable for.

K

That district and I would really rather not take it down I'd like to make.

B

Comments if this wasn't a historic district, this would be easy. You know.

G

It's an old house tear it down, build something new, but the fact that it's a.

G

Historic district means that we have valued all the pieces of this district.

G

And they're all contributing and they're very few outstanding or anything beyond.

G

Contributing in this old historic district- and I have seen too many.

G

Projects that turn out fantastic, keeping the character of the original house.

G

Rebuilding a lot of it adding a lot on the back. It can do both it can keep that.

G

Facade and the historic front to the street that happened in the 20s and it.

G

Can be a brand new, beautiful house that fits the livelihood in the and the.

G

Future of a family we can do both, but if we just start giving these away, oh yeah.

G

Nobody maintained it for a while, throw it out, you know, and then the next one.

G

Comes down, nobody maintained it for a while, throw it out. You know we aren't.

G

Respecting the historic district that says, demolitions are not to be really.

G

Are not to be allowed without extenuating circumstances that are.

G

Greater than somebody didn't take care of this house over the years. You know I.

G

Can't support it, I think, in the era of zoom meetings, we're having prospect hill.

G

Reviews without really a general feedback from the neighborhood, and I.

G

Regret that and I'm going to get more involved and make sure that doesn't.

G

Continue to happen, but I don't see how we're doing our job if we are willing to.

G

Let go a house that certainly has a nice street presence and a ton of potential.

G

For we've, we've all seen these being added on to expanded and their character.

G

Maintained you can both do both it's not one or the other, and you know so many. I.

G

Know a lot of builders want to just take them down, put them up to different thing.

G

It's easier simpler, but really the quality. Isn't there when you don't.

G

Respect the historic character of that house or that neighborhood and up and.

G

Down the street, the only difference between this house and most of the rest.

G

Of houses on the street is somebody didn't take care of it for a while.

G

That's the only difference, so I can't support allowing this to be demolished.

B

All right lee I I totally would echo what chris just said. I've seen I've been.

F

In homes that were on the brink and have come, you know come back and have you.

F

Know are still standing in their little gems in their neighborhoods and they add.

F

So much character, and I think this house has that potential still. And but if we.

F

If we allow it to go, it's going to be gone forever, so I don't think I can.

F

Support demolition. I read through the structure report that kevin potter and.

L

There's there's obviously some pieces of the house additions in the back. The roof.

L

That they're discards. I am concerned that the owner, I feel, has gone through.

L

Their due diligence, they've hired a structural engineer.

L

They've tried to get financing, they can't make it happen.

L

And so saying, oh, you can't tear this down. They it points to a failure of.

L

Resources for people who want to restore an historic house- and I hear what kris.

L

What lee, what you guys are saying, but then my question back to you, too, is like.

L

How can we help them because they're trying honest lee they're trying, but if.

L

We don't allow them to tear it down and build a compatible house. What are the.

L

Alternatives, that's not really a question, but that's kind of where I'm.

B

Coming down for a construction loan to renovate a property, so I find that a.

B

Little hard to believe that the lenders aren't willing to loan money, especially.

B

In the neighborhood existence, however, I do simplify sympathize with the owner.

B

About trying to get something she'd like to have and again it says, as chris was.

B

Saying it's another one of those little things out there that we start losing.

B

The fabric of our neighborhood, that's my comment. I have an additional comment if.

G

I could yeah. This is an investment. It's not.

G

Oh, you must make it somebody's home, it's an investment and it may become.

G

Somebody's home, but this isn't a situation of hardship. This is a.

G

Situation of somebody got a good deal on this property and they'd like to get rid.

G

Of the house, that's on it, and our responsibility is to decide is that okay.

G

Is that what we're here for? I would suggest that we are here to.

G

Protect that property and see that it passes into the future. Thank you.

P

I do I will try and be brief thanks for your attention.

P

First, I want to just tell you that historically, the reason I chose this.

P

House and I hope to retire to it and make it my own. So I'm not doing this as.

P

Sort of a flip or got a good deal, the house directly. I guess I'm gonna get my.

P

East of that house belongs to my best friend who knew her neighbor. No, I'm.

P

Sorry, I think that's back back up the alley. It's is right right behind my.

P

House back up, the alley is jessica, matt's house and she talked to her.

P

Neighbor and frankly, we did this very informally, I might total go walking in.

P

Was to rehab the house, it wasn't that I came in thinking. I would like to just.

P

Tear this down and start over, rather, what happened was, as we looked at.

P

It it just the more and my builder steve his arm on the line as well now asking.

P

He can answer questions as we looked at it. It just became increasingly difficult.

P

To imagine, I think I think that is the foundation is more than it needs a.

P

Little work, it just has been flooded repeatedly and we can't at least.

P

According to steve, what we can't do is dig deeply enough to really handle some.

P

Of the water problems and that if we could excavate it, if we could demolish.

P

And excavate I would dig deeply enough to get a basement and then the floor.

P

Would be over where the water is running, and I wouldn't have all the problems.

P

It's really about when you walk inside. There was nothing the man who had owned.

P

The home came and mowed the lawn for ten years. What I didn't realize is he didn't.

P

Insure the property for ten years, which meant that I'm unable to get insurance.

P

And nobody will touch this as a loan. I really have tried to go around and this.

P

Is when they said if it's, if it's cleanly.

P

Fine, but if not, you have to wait until it passes a business of building.

P

Inspection and this house is just the smell of mildew- is overwhelming. Nothing.

P

Works, it was, and I think steve documented that.

P

It was built not to code at the time it was built. This is you know. I have.

P

Tremendous respect for the appearance of the house, the neighbors were so cheered.

P

On I, don't I don't recognize the names of the three people you mentioned, but.

P

They were so thrilled that somebody had taken it over because it isn't ridiculous eyesore for me, there's just a lot of sentimental value there, but from.

P

You know from what this is not a case where I'm trying to just zip up a good.

P

Value and somebody just let it go, a very eccentric man came and mowed the lawn.

P

For a long time- and I don't think anybody realized what was going on.

P

Inside- and that was the first person he let inside in ten years when I bought it.

P

I had no notions of demolishing it. I didn't realize yeah. I just thought this.

P

Would be, you know, we're gonna, bring it down to the studs and then bring it back.

P

To life, I'm particularly concerned about the foundation issues and the way the.

P

House was framed, I would love to be able to have a little shelter in the you know.

P

Create a basement and a turn and a tornado room and put the utilities.

P

Downstairs I will commit to having a house that looks exactly like. I think.

P

This is an adorable house and I'd like to, and I commit to using the right kind.

P

Of the right building materials, I don't want it to look at a character there's. I.

P

Have no interest in a duplex or a mcmansion, or anything like that? What I.

P

Just want to do is make it possible that you don't have to pile up cash for the.

P

Next, four years to be able to build it, and I think that that steve shared with.

P

Me and I don't know conor if you can screen share that thing I typed up. I do.

P

You know I am, I would love to hear that. Oh, it's, no big deal to just lift up the.

P

House- and this will be easy to do it's the foundation- steps that I'm.

P

Concerned about, I think the roof is totally gone and I think it says.

P

Something that everyone who's actually walked around it and looked at it just.

P

Thinks it's not salvageable. I mean there's no way you could let somebody.

P

Live in the house as is, and I it would be hard for me to imagine just because.

P

Of some of the toxic mold in there that it's a good idea to just sort of try and.

P

Keep what's there but kind of you could share the screen with with that chart.

P

That steve made no, I I'm still seeing just the house- okay, yeah, okay, so so I.

P

Think mr. sternman, this might make you feel better. I think that we have. We have.

P

More numbers that look probably more in alignment there's we didn't see a.

P

$25,000 difference we saw more of a, I think when we all said and done a.

P

$17,000 difference for me as much about wanting to feel like the foundation is.

P

Solid and wanting to have a no water running through underneath the way it's.

P

Graded right now there was just water pouring through then just about the.

P

Extra extra difference- these you know these are these are numbers we just got.

P

The other day by steve, going around to various various folks. So maybe I hope.

P

These are realistic. I am really not trying to make a case other than want.

P

I'm making to you now, I'm not trying to inflate it or otherwise. Obviously, beep.

P

It's honest with you folks. I just came to the conclusion that this would be the.

P

Better and I would be able to build a better house if I could start from.

P

Scratch not because I want to go through neighborhoods and do that, but I think.

P

This particular house- I did not buy it with that intention, but this particular.

P

House is really hard to imagine getting back up to what we would want. So I think.

G

Did you say your statistics were such that it was $17,000 more expensive to.

G

Fix the old house than build the new one. Well I mean I let me.

P

Oh, can you can you scroll down a little bit.

P

Yes, including a seven $5,000, I find there's no benefit from having a.

P

Basement steve, are you there? This is steve's.

P

First time on june, you have to unmute yourself. Second, I'm sorry he's not on.

P

But he got the time wrong, so I it's the best that I understand it. It's steve is.

P

Telling me that it'd be $17,000 difference, but the problem is that I.

P

Can't get I am, I am mr. merrick, you know somebody who'd give me a mortgage on a.

P

Property that has not been insured in 10 years, that was the killer.

P

That nobody well, nobody will touch it. I really I went around and asked and the.

P

Same and the insurance I had one guy gave me and just an astronomical sum, so.

P

I did get one bid at the end, but I again I would say I spoke to at least seven.

P

People about trying to insurance in my own, the usaa, wouldn't touch it. There was.

P

Just there's so much that makes it much harder than if we could start from.

P

Scratch with full respect for what is you know, I I'm not sure I understand the.

P

Entire enterprise, but I do know that what you don't want, something that looks.

P

Out of character with the neighborhood or somehow is or something is.

P

Disrespectful- and that is not going to happen, you're saying that with a full.

G

Estimate of what to do and what will happen you couldn't get any kind of.

G

Mortgage on the house I couldn't- and now I I didn't go to as many mortgage. I.

P

Spoke to three mortgage people and didn't, but.

P

But what would happen is they would just shut down say? Look, we can't give you a.

P

Builder's mortgage, if there's an existing structure, it's either start from scratch or go forward, and I, if I remember correctly, I.

P

Think part of the problem was that it had not been insured, and so nobody was.

P

Going to touch it and I couldn't have insurance while they were working on it, which made everybody super nervous. I.

A

Mean I all I can say that I I totally respect what all the considerations you.

P

Have but to the extent that you're worried that you're setting a precedent of some rapacious person who's coming in to game the system? That is not this.

P

House this is, I want to live next to my best friend in my old age, and I would.

E

Just like to say, I can vouch for me this story. I met with her almost a year ago.

E

On this house, and her original plan is all she talked about- was rehabbing.

E

Restoring the house that was definitely her original plans, but I think, as her.

E

And steve got deeper into and deeper into it. That plan obviously came more.

E

Than covered, so you know what another reason I guess I would support. This is.

E

Something that I get asked by petitioners like aviva is well what kind.

E

Of funding or grant, might you have for me to restore this project into this.

E

House this is extremely expensive and actually just tell people. Well, we don't.

E

Have any money for you whatever that, however, the historic preservation.

E

Commission telling you to spend your dollars, that's how you gotta spend your dollars and it's tough for people to get them. It really hurts.

E

Historic preservation in this community so I'll stop there, but I do want to.

E

Dodge for a video story. Well, if it's a hardship case, though aren't I understood.

G

That there were several other houses that were owned by the petitioner. This.

G

Isn't a one-off kind of situation? No, that's fair and I really wouldn't want.

P

To put my, it would be ridiculous for me to say that it's a financial hardship in.

P

The sense that iii would be homeless or that you.

P

Know that I'd have to compromise on basic needs. It is, I would say, an in.

P

Equal measure, a concern about the extra cost that I will have to, because I can't.

P

Get a loan, but I will just have to spend time accruing and the fact that I'm I.

P

When my understanding of how that foundation is, is not working is that I.

P

Won't that if we jack up the house we'll be able to to get maybe 14 inches or.

P

Maybe to the minimum of the code, but we won't be able to dig significantly to do.

P

The kind of thing that I think would be really good for the house, which is have.

P

A you know, we wouldn't need a sump pump. We would be able to go straight to I.

P

Wouldn't have to worry about drainage, there would be, there would be a place.

P

For a tornado, which would make me happy and place for utilities, I see that as a.

P

Huge benefit- and I it's not one that I needed going in, but once I but but the.

P

Prospect of having every you know the way in which everything was done: poorly.

P

And that I think steve did a great job documenting it, so I won't review it made.

P

Me feel this was just not a safe structure and, just to reiterate, you have.

P

My commitment that whatever gets built is entirely we do have plans, I'm working.

P

With with barry clamber and she she is totally um she we thought about an.

P

Addition to the back of the house that would allow a master bedroom and a.

P

Another bathroom, but at the street view I think, would be entirely the same. We're.

P

Really or I think it's a super cute house and it's the place and I'm gonna.

P

Also have a ramp in the back you, so it's going to be that I'm anticipating.

P

Hopefully, an old age that allows me to live alone and I'm building an entirely.

P

Accessible house do not thanks to.

B

I have a couple of comments the house was built originally on piers chris. I.

H

Went out and looked at it, the corner tears are still there, but the concrete.

H

Block was put in underneath to make it look better. It was never really.

H

Structural, in the sense that it supported the house, according to the.

H

Engineer, there's no footing so somebody laid up limestone around the house, but I.

H

Don't believe it was original to the structure. I believe it was sitting on.

H

Piers and I'm pretty sure at least two of the corners, I could see where its.

H

Excavated you can still see the pier walls are straight. The roof is way.

H

Because it's got too much weight on it because nobody's ever bothered to take.

H

Shingles off the the description of the construction by the engineer who, by the.

H

Way knows as well as anyone what these house how these houses are built, because.

H

He's experienced them a lot and he's our sort of go-to guy. For this kind of thing,.

H

It's notable that he didn't recommend tearing it down. He recommended ways to.

H

Make it sound, so I don't think the fact that there's an engineer's report should.

H

Be translated into it ought to go. Kevin was pretty explicit about things that.

H

Could be done to enhance the structure where he felt he was lacking? Chris has.

H

Worked on lots of these houses, I've worked on a couple of dozen of them on.

H

The west side, at the very least, be our eyes done 30 or 40 of these, and so I.

H

Think part of the problem is for not maybe asking the right people what the.

H

Solutions are I you know, I would very seriously consider calling steve wyatt.

H

At bloomington, restorations and and doing a walkthrough and let him show you.

H

What they've been able to do for often well under a hundred dollars, a square.

H

Foot to rectify these, since they're all are over this.

H

Neighborhood and and so the you know, and if you're gonna build an addition anyway,.

H

Put your shelter under the addition. I mean that's just common sense, so I I.

H

Don't I don't agree that the condition of it is necessarily shoddy a lot of.

H

These houses were built by homeowners and by people who were less than.

H

Professional the fact that it didn't meet code standards of today the test is.

H

It's still standing there and it's standing there straight. It's it's very.

H

Straight the ridge that the soffit, the fascia, the sides, you know, houses that.

H

Are falling down are not straight? I walked around it for quite a while today.

H

Stuck my head in the crawlspace yeah, it's crummy, I get it. But honestly I.

H

Don't think that the advice you're getting from your advisors is is.

H

Necessarily based in expiry in their experience and what could happen, I I.

H

Can't make a guarantee, but I can almost assure you you could restore this house.

H

For cheaper than you can build a new one, and I know how inconvenient that is for.

H

People who aren't in that business, but for people who are in that business, it's.

H

A it's a slam, dunk, basically, and the issues of lead and.

H

Insulation and all the other things that you very you know your explanation and.

H

Rationales is a beautiful thing to read. I I think he really made a real effort.

H

But it's not it's not convincing to me because my experience has told me over.

H

And over again that this can be done, I vi rebuilt a barn on my property that.

H

Was leaning so badly? I couldn't get the excavator to stay in the driveway long.

H

Enough to give me a bid, so I mean honestly this is this. Is I yeah, I think.

H

Kevin potter's have a very accurate description of his condition, but it's.

H

Not a condition that can't be rectified, and and in terms of what chris is saying.

H

About you know precedence I mean connor himself quoted a precedent.

H

But there we were really somebody else to tear a house down.

H

Every time we allow some tear one down, it's one more example of.

H

Why we ought to do it more often and that's got to stop. This is a historic.

H

District, you don't tear houses down in historic districts unless they're.

H

Practically down already so I just I don't I don't buy it.

H

I totally support the owner and her effort. I totally believe her honesty and.

H

And and everything, but I think it just it's just a matter of getting the right.

H

The right advice and and bri has access to money from indiana landmarks to do.

H

Projects like this we've leveraged revolving loan funds from them over and.

H

Over again, the problem you describe in terms of financing shouldn't have to.

H

Exist and there are solutions to it, so I don't they're just just plain.

H

Construction loans for renovation and that can be insured, so you know I'll, be.

P

Honest with you that part, I really have investigated and haven't and have come.

P

Up empty so and when I think you mentioned a name of a person, and I asked.

P

Him partner steve, why others, the director yeah, I asked who could help me.

P

With insurance- and he gave me some names and they all turned up empty- okay, well,.

H

I'm not convinced I mean because we've done so many of these projects. We don't.

H

Do them without insurance, you know, and neither does anybody else.

H

So I mean talk to chris. He does these projects all the time. It's it's. It's.

H

That's not something I would let I would not that let a lender convince me that a.

H

House has to be torn down that that's my bottom line on that and I don't know.

H

What your recent, what your you know, the ailable resources are or anything but.

H

You know these houses can be done in phases. Several people, you know my own.

H

House that took me 25 years to do it. I'm not gonna live that long. Mr. campbell, I.

H

Didn't think I was either honestly, I mean you know I just I just don't agree.

H

That the solution here is to remove the house. I just can't I've seen too, but.

H

I've seen him too often he's successful. The house across the street is a.

H

Successful example of somebody whose house that was saved there's two more.

H

Down the street, this is, you know it shouldn't happen. We.

B

Need a motion: we need a motion. I moved to deny the demolition of 309 south.

G

Davidson street second lee did use were using one who seconded that. Yes, I was.

D

Okay, thank you. Okay, sam to solar, yes, susan dyer, yes, jeff golden.

D

Leaf and wife, yes, john saunders, yes krister bomb, yes motion carries five one.

D

Zero wish you luck and we do wish you.

P

The very super slow plan. I appreciate your attention and I learned a lot about.

P

The house doing this, so it wasn't a waste of time. So thanks a lot who said.

B

P

Okay, thank you thanks a lot. I could. I just tell eddie that I finally showed up.

Q

Because I got lost in my calendar, okay, thank you. Come here.

R

Great, thank you all right. This is a non-contributing commercial structure in.

E

The courthouse square historic district, the building's undergone significant.

E

Alterations the petitioners request is part of a project to eliminate roof.

E

Leaks and enhance the building's drainage system. The request is to.

E

Install gutters along the cornice line of the building, similar to what has been.

E

Done in the building directly to the west, this one here, the plan is to.

E

Install gutter along the cornice line here and then tap into the downspout.

E

That already exists on this building here, so staff consulted with the.

E

Applicant, we suggested the current proposal as a way to eliminate the roof.

E

Trough, which you see here has currently used to drain, is constantly being.

E

Clogged up by students we're up on the building legally with trash and other.

E

Things so commercial buildings built the late 19th century usually had.

E

Roasted slope to the reader or internal guttering systems, these roofs were.

E

Typically, hidden by a masonry parapet, you can see here this building.

E

Originally did have one that could since been removed. So really, if you run a case.

E

Dog gutter along facade and you accent it to match, it really looks nice and it.

E

Kind of pops and creates how that cornice line it's missing a little bit.

E

So, for those reasons to recommend approval questions, no no questions, no.

J

Questions, thank you muted, jenny. There we go now. My only question is how the.

K

Students getting up there, that's a would you like me to answer.

R

That question the building right to the west has a rooftop access which gives.

R

Them access for their apartments and then they can climb right from that over.

R

A small railing it to get on top of 102 west 6th street and then they sit and.

R

Dangle over that edge and throw beer cans down in our scupper, I would really encourage you to do a no trespassing sign up there so that you.

K

Can disclaim liability at the very least we have and we've talked to the building.

R

Owner and done what we can no questions.

L

What's the size of the downspout and have you run calculations on the added.

L

Load, so the current downspout is already servicing that scupper, so the entire.

R

Internal drainage system goes into box, which then feeds down into the same.

R

Downspout, so we're not changing anything on additional water. It's just gonna be.

R

Run from an external gutter which we, which we'll catch last waste and be.

R

Easier to clean and eliminate the amount of debris and icater is basically a.

L

Residential gutter right, that's right.

L

That's what I got thank you, no questions, will it be black or red or what's it.

G

Gonna, be, I was hoping you'd tell me chris question. I don't really have any.

H

Questions yeah. I sympathize with the problem. I I you know, I think, and I know.

H

These these internal troughs are really hard to maintain it's hard to keep them.

H

Clean you know, students are not it's hard to get them to function and when.

H

They don't you get a very wet building.

H

It's too bad in some ways that these buildings were. You know these cornices.

H

Were taken off but but that basically the cornices just held an internal.

H

Gutter system they weren't they weren't any better for protecting from from dan.

H

Tana's, the trick here is to make it look as nice as possible and that, because.

H

It's kind of a streamlined mode, aaron designed you know, maybe I don't think.

H

That's really gonna be too hard. I would I wouldn't recommend a que cutter. I I.

H

Just put up a box cutter, a flat-fronted box cutter that you know match the color.

H

Of the building as closely as possible, I wouldn't try to make a design out homan.

H

How about I try to hide it, but I you know, I think it sounds like it will.

H

Function better, you still have to keep it clean. I mean your bottles landing.

H

Gutters too, so it's not going to totally solve the problem, but.

H

You don't have a pitch forward like they do next door, where they have that better.

H

So they've got a little hip coming into it, but I'm not quite sure how you're.

H

Gonna keep it clean, but you know college, it's. It's gonna have its own problem, so.

H

I you know, I said, don't I'm and I appreciate your advice there. One of the.

R

Things that's happening is, is that it's it's so many of those problems are going.

R

To the internal structure and deteriorating just an a vacant area.

R

Which the owner will ultimately hope to renovate with the board's approval and.

R

So one of the things we want to do is prepare to protect the structure and the.

R

Restaurant that's currently there, but what we'll do is we'll build a will. Just.

R

Kind of fill in that area and create a lot of iso board and just epdm or tpo.

R

Some sort of structure that will gradually slope with enough slope on a.

R

Commercial roofing membrane, which will tear carry it to that box cutter like.

R

You're recommending and that'll water outside the building yeah, I think that's.

H

A good solution, I'm supported no questions or comments. Thank you thanks. I.

G

Wasn't calm and I wasn't prepared to think what color that should be not.

G

Suggestion was to hide it is that is that an external gutter on the on the.

G

Left side on the bottom to the left be a different height, or will they try to.

G

Unify or know they'll be distinct, I was gonna say we're opened either way. If we.

R

Lowered it to match that height that certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

R

It would just except for it, you know the amount of runoff would then I would have.

R

Said, I would be afraid, would exceed the capacity of the gutter and then would.

R

Bring down onto the the street I'd like sambar or nesto, to suggest something.

L

Anything I have lots.

J

They'll sit tied, you go first, so I did a little tour around the square and one of.

L

The things that makes there's really nothing particularly addressing drainage.

L

In the guidelines for this district, that said, I went around the district and the.

L

Only building that has a gutter on the facade is the kingdom one. Well, the what.

L

Firmly was known, sadly as kingdom, and it looks like hell in part because it's a.

L

Residential gutter system, if you look at if you sort of zoom in on the area where.

L

The scupper and the gutter join that's just the same owner on both of these.

L

Buildings, well, no yeah, so the owner from the kingdome building is sort of glum.

L

Because it looks like from google maps and from like wandering around that. That.

L

Downspout is actually on the front of the grassi building and if they're.

L

Actually allowed to go into that downspout, I think my big issue is that.

L

You're, basically using a residential system which isn't built for see how it.

L

Goes down along the front of the limestone that that black downspout and.

L

The scupper is located on the front limestone and then you've got these sort.

L

Of ridiculous, no sort of snakes coming down from the.

L

Gutter, a couple of them: it's a patch job, it's not great, but the big issue. I have.

L

Is that you've got a downspout on the public frontage, and I think this is.

L

Actually, an opportunity to make that a little less horrible. I would second.

L

Duncan's comments that you put in a box cutter that you put it up above the.

L

Limestone you're gonna have to have some kind of slope and if you put a k, gutter.

L

In there, the slope from the this sort of east end the west end is.

L

Going to have to be significant enough that you're gonna have drop along the.

L

Gutter and it's going to look like hell. So if you can incorporate that into the.

L

Actual box cutter hell of a lot cleaner. Sorry, I'm a little more proofing than I.

L

Want to be, but I am, I really don't want to see- that's the residential solution.

L

Placed on a commercial building and then if you can upgrade the residential.

L

Downspout, which is basically a three by four aluminum downspout into something.

L

That's a little more commercial and like I mean the building, is non-contributing.

L

But it's a building, that's you know it's an international style building. If you.

L

Did it out of like, I want to say stainless, but you're not gonna, get that.

L

Here so something that's at least a street level very beefy, so that when.

L

People whack into it, it's not going to dent and look like crap. I think that.

L

Would help and then, if you sort of clean up the intersection of everything, that's.

L

Going on up at the top, I think that would help a lot too. I don't have any.

L

Issue with them well, actually I do have some issues with them, but I'm willing to.

L

Like choke it down, if they clean it up of basically not fixing the integral.

L

Downspouts, which every other building has and you look at every other building.

L

On the square, the drainage doesn't go down the front. It goes down to the back.

L

It goes down the sides, it goes down an alley, no other building on the square.

L

Has a gutter except for kingdome, and I think that is subtle thing, but it it's.

L

Contributory to why the square looks the way it does and if you start chipping.

L

Away at that, it's an it's an issue, so I would advocate for a commercial box.

L

Cutter and replacing both connections to the gutters, both from the kingdom.

L

Building and the gratzi building to something that's cleaner to a more.

L

Commercial grade, a box cutter a downspout, no thanks.

E

He can't touch qingdao building he's only working on the grassy building, the.

L

Only reason I said that is because the king do building feeds into that on the.

L

Grassy building it in essence, and he also said that the that the current.

L

Drainage from the karachi building goes into that downspout, which is only as far.

L

As I can see, coming from the grassy building, you've got two snakes coming.

L

Both from the grazia building and the king, don't building my bad. The king do.

L

Building the scupper, if that scupper, that box scupper, that's the higher one.

L

Is actually from the garage building it's on the king doable day, so I can.

R

Weigh in there I've been up there, a bunch, it's actually where that box connection comes a third connection comes in there from underneath from.

R

Behind that parapet, wall and jump straight into there, so it's not that box.

R

Is all on the king doe building, but you're plugged into it goes all the way.

Q

Down it's a great question and if you tell me I'd gladly work with them. I.

R

Think it's a combined wall, so you know there's a 12 inch wall, so oai the owner.

R

Of the gratzi building on six inches of that wall, I assume somewhere before me ever getting involved. There was an agreement.

R

That that downspout would be able to service both they do go into a.

R

Street-Level drainage system that then goes underneath the curb and there you.

R

Go, I think, connors pointed out right now and it spits out on that lower sidewalk.

R

So at least not to cause problem on the sidewalk at street level, where a bunch.

L

Of drunken college students have access to it. Can I make my comment john. I agree.

J

With sam a hundred percent, I mean we just can't do what is there on that.

J

Building next door- that's just not! It is very true that all the water should run.

J

To the back to the alley or to the side, so a box cutter would be the appropriate.

J

Way to go, that's all I just I agree with with.

J

Salmon and duncan, thank you you're talking about that. We can see the third.

B

Entrance is effluent coming from graz aims at the one that down. So it's highly.

B

Possible that current system belongs to oh yeah. It worked early cabinet. I would.

R

I would say it's a possibility to speak to getting water to either the back of.

R

The building or an alley clearly the building's landlocked between 100 and.

R

Then 108 west 6th street there. So so I don't have an. I don't have access.

R

Because this parapet wall, then, if you look directly behind that that wall or.

R

That height of the roof is extended about six feet. I can't get water up.

R

Without mechanically creating a way to do that or go east or west, so my only.

R

Option to get water out of this area aside from squaring off the building and.

R

Elevating the front facade up that additional six feet above that parapet.

R

Wall, which is about three feet above what is down there in the scupper. I.

R

Don't have an option to take water anywhere else other than down one of the.

R

Sides down the building, I guess, is what I'm I what I would like to add to this.

R

So I had the box cutter would work if, if the owner of king doe building there.

R

Would allow us to increase that gutter working together with a shared cost or.

R

Even quite frankly, I would probably just you know be glad to do the right thing.

R

There, it would just be a working together with your neighbor, and we would.

R

We would facilitate that certainly, so I also agree with sam in the previous.

C

Comments around the box cutter, I don't think a residential k. Gutter is.

C

Appropriate in this use, it would be really nice to.

C

Something looks more commercial, including the downspout. Thank you. Lee.

F

Yakko what jeff said and what sam said: boxberger more commercial, downspout, yeah.

B

I agree with everyone thanks susan yeah, I'd agree with that too. I love stainless.

L

But hey I mean, I think the other appropriate choice is to match the frame.

L

Of the window, even that beige could happen, maybe ask a clarification.

R

Question just just if that's okay, it certainly anything that we're advised to.

R

Do 102, / 104 stand 6 west 6th street will will adhere to. I don't know that we.

R

Have jurisdiction or authority to change the downspout as it comes down the.

R

Building we can certainly work with him. I don't want to be misleading in this.

R

Will certainly do whatever we need to do across our facade of the building and then work with them, but I don't want to. I don't want to leave this, and this.

R

Meeting saying that I can certainly do anything that I can't that I don't have.

R

Authority to do it will work to do that, but so, if I don't have control of that.

R

Downspout I'll work with the owner to try that the owner or king doe to try to.

R

Come come to a ellucian, but I don't want to be misleading here. I got a quick question: if you don't have authority on the.

L

Downspout does the build the water from your building still actually now go down.

L

Yes, they both share it. I'm just saying I'll have to work with them to come to.

R

An agreement, and even if we accept the cost, I assume they'd, be to do that. I.

R

Just don't want to be misleading, well, we'll certainly work with the owner and and and and try to get something resolved. But I just don't want to say.

R

Like if you guys recommend that I do a box cutter at a beige, color or a.

R

Limestone looking color and then it goes into this downspout and we and then.

R

Further tell me to make that larger I'll work with own or that building and we'll.

R

Get that taken care of, but I can't speak for them. I can only speak for the the.

R

Reppert, you know what I represent here.

G

It would certainly be in their interest to get that gutter flow flowing and.

G

Functioning well for the future, nothing large and quite clean it up. I.

L

Have an idea for a motion, I would move to continue this to the next meeting.

L

Until the owner has a chance to coordinate with the owner of the.

L

Adjacent building and present to us a documentation of what we've talked about.

L

With a box cutter and whatever downspout he's able to coordinate with the.

L

Adjacent building owner, okay, I think that was per se. I made the motion and.

C

Kris seconded okay, all right, I think you need the owners representatives, okay, on.

H

The continuance, if you're gonna continue the meeting you have to get is that.

L

Amenable, I would ask for permission to begin repairing just our portion of the.

R

Internal structure of the building and ready for a box cutter. If that's what.

R

We're going to go with and then table the down spouts question for later, just.

R

Because we actively have water entering our building, and so I put on hold.

R

Preparing that until this meeting and it's gonna rain tomorrow yeah, I think.

H

That's reasonable. I do too yeah. I would. I would amend my motion to include the.

L

Owner may immediately begin repairs to secure the interior of the building from.

L

Moisture infiltration, is he not asking to start on the gutter part to talking.

L

About getting the building watertight, yes,.

B

The only gutters my issue is the shared responsibility and that's what you.

G

Wanted a future review of so that it didn't get done wrong. I think, is that.

G

Right, sam, I want a future review of both the box cutter and the downspout if he.

L

Needs to start to sort of block off the interior of the scuppers to protect the.

L

Interior of the building from water infiltration, I don't have an issue with.

L

That does anybody else. I mean there may be some water that spills out onto the.

L

Street in the meantime- and I don't know- I just don't understand why we're.

E

Talking about the downspout on the kingdome building, it's not only building.

L

As far as I can tell, I mean the building this building spills down into that.

L

Downspout right but he's but paul's saying it's not his downspout and he.

E

Can't guarantee that anyone can never touch that downspout in the future ever.

E

Again so you know what did I mean the gratzi building, it's pretty clear, paul.

E

No paul just told you guys several times: it's not their downspout. He doesn't own.

E

The downspout he can't guarantee that anything has ever done with the downspout. He told us, he doesn't know they share it. It's a shared downspout.

L

He's going to enter into negotiations in good faith and in good faith, we will.

L

You know we will accept what comes, but you know it's it from all. I can see it.

L

Is on the grazie building I dislike to say I'd like to get this in a position.

R

Where I can square off, this scupper get this. If we, if we could get to a point.

R

Where we could agree on a box, cutter and color and temporarily go into this.

R

Downspout and in good faith, maybe the motion is in good faith on the.

R

Next meeting I'll have gone further in working with the owner of that building.

R

To upgrade that downspout, because it's a shared downspout, I could do that, but.

R

That gives me a month of time to get this square off and get a box cutter.

R

Built to your color recommendation and then the downspout be the table dies.

R

Item- and I don't know if it works, that way, that's just a recommendation or a request. I would like, before you put the box cutter in one of the things that I'm.

L

Concerned about is the slope of the box cutter because you know you have to have.

L

Water else goes somewhere and it's got a drain for gravity right. So if you stick.

L

That, on the top of that, horizontal cornice line looks like a six-inch.

L

Limestone cornice, it would be nice if the slope of the box cutter was.

L

Contained within the box cutter- and you didn't see it on the front facade of.

L

Building, if that makes sense, oh, I think you understand very well.

E

Mission of this project is to make it as inconspicuous as possible, and I think.

E

That's what sam's trying to say, although and I agree with that and it'll take a.

R

Little bit of time to do some planning and yeah, but but but certainly I don't.

R

Want to go forward with us with a beginning of a structural repair, that's.

R

Gonna lead to a wrong elevation, because I'm misunderstanding: where we're gonna.

R

Go if my box right? No, I can build a box certainly, but I don't want to start this.

R

Project and waste money, if it's not going to be an approval because to do.

R

The repairs that I need to do this to stop water in filtration. I've got to.

R

Elevate, a roofline and square that off and.

R

Put ice aboard an insulation and then a rubber roofing, a tpo or an epdm to stop.

R

This water infiltration- and I don't want to do that without your this- this.

R

Board's approval, sometimes we've given approval and then kind of consulted as.

G

You proceed so you get a little feedback as it happens. Yes, keep it back. You did.

R

That with me, specifically on the project at 100, west east kirkwood, they're on the.

R

On the trojan horse project you and uncle duncan came over multiple times.

R

And were super helpful with that project, and I would I would gladly gladly allow.

R

That to happen again or a request that that happened again. So that should.

G

Reassure sam to make the motion question before you make the motion for connor.

K

Connor, if he makes a box-cutter totally out of sight, does he even need.

K

Our approval, it's gonna, run along the top of that horizontal six-inch.

L

Limestone you know one inch pop out at the top of the grunty building. Is it.

G

Sitting on top or right under oh so that wasn't the original request. So I can't.

R

Answer that question other than to say that I'm open to either way. I think I.

L

Think it would be a little bit better to pop it just set it on top of that.

L

Cornice line so that the cornice line reads- and it's not covered up that. That.

L

Means the roof line behind is gonna be a little bit higher, but I don't think I.

L

Don't think anybody cares, we've got room to do it. You've got room to get the.

L

Slope working and I think it might actually be cleaner to give yourself a.

L

Little more room to play up there frankly saying that makes my job easier.

R

So yeah we're not trying to make it hard. You know I'm an architect, and so I'm.

L

Lucky about stuff, but I understand how stuff fit well, unlike.

L

Some other architects, I understand how stuff is built and I don't want to give.

L

You a hard time except I want it to be. I would put we're not destroying that.

G

Facade, which is nice? Yes, yes, I know we're being totally fussy, but it's.

G

Limestone, it's almost old enough to be historic. On top of it, I think that'll.

L

Probably be a little easier to build than something that hangs down the front.

L

Of it, you've got a little bit. We've got a little bit more latitude muck around.

L

With what happens behind it- and there was some architectural intent there, it.

G

Just wasn't original: let's see where were we so we moved to approve the.

L

Applicants request to put a gutter on there, but we want it to be a box cutter.

L

We want it to feed into a downspout at the existing downspout location, which.

L

Will hopefully be upgraded, but that's in good faith negotiation with the adjacent.

L

Owner color, to be approved by staff, probably meant matching either the the.

L

Beige down below or the window frame is that fair is that is that clear enough.

B

Yes, thank you, okay, so that was still it was. The motion was still made by sam and.

B

Was seconded by chris correct all right: okay, all right, sam to soller.

D

Yes, susan dyer, yeah, jeff golden yes, damn hutton. Yes,.

Q

Lise and weiss john saunders, yes, krister bomb, yes, motion carries 7-0.

H

Thanks for your patience, I hate your time. This is a intriguing commercial.

E

Structure, it is the petitioners requesting full demolition. It looks like.

E

It was an old food restaurant, whether there's a drive-through or a.

E

Drive-Through sit in place combination. I haven't been around in bloomington long.

E

Enough, maybe you guys know this may have been the best burger joint in monterey.

E

County swinging and pizza swinging- okay, you know it great, so I don't need to say.

E

Anything else, but I would recommend releasing the demolition delay yeah. I'm.

S

Carl clark and I'm the petitioner what no just the main thing the building is.

S

Just so short the door, it's got an extra small door at the front and it's just.

S

It's just way to shorts the whole problem and it's not a complete demo.

M

We're keeping the blocks right, the footprint and everything we're just.

S

Going to go up from there, so it's going to be the same size on that when you say.

H

It's not going to be a full demolition, you're keeping the footprint, but are you.

H

Keeping any of the building, or is it all coming down to the ground.

H

No, today we're keeping foundation well, which is below grade no.

S

It's above grade it cement block, okay, so you're keeping it all the way to the to.

H

The red to the roof: no, no, like the bottom of the windows: okay, okay,.

H

And then I see another picture here below is that what's getting built? Yes,.

H

That's the only question I have.

J

Questions. Thank you. Sorry. Yes, are they going to be using the old sign out front.

K

Or are they taking that down? Also.

J

We were, we were planning on using the old sign. mmm It is this full historic.

K

Connor, what do you mean um demolition delay? Okay, so it's not in a historic.

K

District correct: it's a demolition delay outside of his orchestra, okay, chris. This.

B

Question period it is, did you consider reusing that building just for kicks? I.

B

Think, yes, I think they said they're gonna, just demo aged.

B

The demolition down to the bottom of those windows, so we're kind of keeping.

B

Part of that yeah- that's that's correct, but the question was: did you consider.

G

The whole building well, the problem is you have to duck your head when you go.

S

In the front door, so that was the problem with that: thanks jeff, no.

C

Questions yeah. Yes, in the picture of the original.

Q

Swingin pizza building in behind the flattop building looks like a garage or.

Q

Something, and is that part of the space lot that you're building on and will it.

Q

Be coming down completely because there's nothing looking like it on your.

Q

Planned straight I can go, I can now go to that. That is a a garage and it's in.

S

Good shape and we're just keeping it as is: are you going to make it match the.

Q

Look of your written or your a new building with colors, I mean it's. It's a.

S

Concrete block building and we've we're just planning on painting at the same.

S

Color as the front building great thank you.

F

Questions all right- this is just sort of an curious question, so you have to duck.

L

When you come in so the height is like under six something yeah, it is it's kind.

S

Of next, it's kind of like an extra small door and actually I get on the internet.

S

Looked at it earlier and there's like basketball players, duck down waiting.

S

Pizza, oh yeah, it's just like they added on and they like had cement higher or.

S

Something it's just really small all right! Thank you.

M

No questions, well, I see the I see the need. I you know, I'm old enough to.

H

Actually, I hate to admit it, but I've actually bought pizza from swinging in.

H

Pieces- and I remember I'm not tall and I'd practically scraped- my head in there.

H

My misgiving, it is, is that, and I think this is what generated chris's question.

H

Is that now we revere these very modern food establishments? You know the.

H

Drive-Ins and these things are wildly popular- we're saving diners from from.

H

Junkyards- and this just happens to be a very iconic example of that pier.

H

Building that has managed to survive, so it's kind of a landmark in bloomington.

H

I'm not surprised it hasn't been designated because nobody really.

H

Probably gives a hoot, but I think maybe that's why chris was saying. Did you.

H

Consider reusing it because it's such an iconic building, I mean it's a sign all.

H

By itself, I don't know what your use is going to be, but I understand the occupancy.

H

Considerations, issues and they're they're very real, but I hate to lose.

H

This building, I you know I was so. I was sad when, when swinging pulled out but.

H

Not not because of the food, but just because the building was used by them.

H

For gas they must have been in there 35 or 40 years, but anyway I mean all. I.

A

Could offer in in the interest of trying to replicate it would be to to raise.

H

That block wall high enough to put the same roof back on it or one very similar.

H

To it so that the building still really looks like it was intended to look the.

H

One that you draw on just sort of looks, like you know, excuse my french, but.

H

Another fast-food, joint and- and this building is, you know- has been pretty.

H

Cool but I objected when they you know when they tore down lady months, so it's.

H

Definitely an iconic piece of architecture, no comments. Thank you. My.

F

Batteries died; no, no! No! No! My computer battery cord! It's closing.

K

No comments: I have one more follow-up.

B

I would I would echo duncan and say we're going to give you permission.

G

To tear this down, but if, in the middle of the night you wake up and think we.

G

Could add a couple of layers of block and have this really cool? Looking weird.

G

Building you know if it comes to you like that, I think we would be very.

G

Approval oriented anak and excited to help when I don't bet on it.

L

You know I get that this is an iconic building. I don't think it's a very you.

L

Know it's kind of trap lee thrown together, so I kind of get why they want.

L

To take it down, but you know if they wanted to put something up. That was as.

L

Visually fun as this one I wouldn't complain either, but I would have any.

L

Problems letting this guy go. Thank you, susan yeah. I don't have any comments. You.

B

Know I didn't agree with chris. It would be nice if we could, if you can retain.

B

John, the same look that it has now, and it really is.

B

Commonplace on on 17th street, so let's move on to read the paper yeah! Oh yes, do.

B

I have there paper might do we have it here.

B

I didn't bring with me my fault, don't blame them economy. Here we go resolution.

B

Establishing to a waiting period before the 9188 has as expired is not expired.

B

Today, regarding the probably negated and one is 301 was 7 17th street historic.

B

Preservation commission got declared that I've got notice proposed and after.

B

Today's discussion sees no need to review the plans any further and where's.

B

The rest demolition slate waiting period, the hpc.

B

Male indirect man, the property for a stroke, designation, tomcats, alright,.

G

Second, that you chris yes, okay, thank you. Okay, just find sam two taller. Yes, susan.

D

Dyer, yes, jeff golden.

D

Damn hutton yes, lise and weiss: okay, john saunders; yes, krister bomb; yes,.

G

Motion carries six zero. Thank you think about it. At 2:00 a.m.

S

Yes, thank you for your time. Everyone. Thank you very much. Thank you. I wanna.

L

Just say, I think it's interesting and kind of nice how quickly the meetings.

L

Seem to go with this sort of like kind of people up put people on. We did a.

B

Little bit of different format in in asking questions and comments, and so I.

B

Think we will continue this honor the rest of our meetings, but we're going to.

B

Ask our advisers to speak first to help guide us in our decisions. Instead, how.

B

We've done in the past, I think that's an excellent change and I want to thank.

B

Eddie for bringing that up to us and the comment about that.

H

That I have a comment about that. Yes, I really believe that the voting members.

H

Who have the authority in these meetings ought to speak first and say what they.

H

Think and we'll have their reactions and as an advisor I'd rather comment on on.

H

That and in sort of give a background or provide technical information or rural.

H

Information as a so-called expert advisor then I would weigh in on on the.

H

Basic principles of the decision making, I think people should explore those.

H

There, as the appointed as the appointed commissioners, I think I think they.

H

Should they should go first? If I don't want to comment on it, I won't, but it's.

H

Sometimes hard to be asked to comment first, when you don't really know what.

H

You're supposed to comment on other than the other than the petition itself, since.

H

I can't vote. I don't really want to. I don't want a.

H

Guide to concession that way, I agree with duncan I couldn't a percent. I think.

J

Is yes, I think that would be the the timeline for us to to interject in the.

J

Conversation, I often really appreciate duncan's point of view and he's often.

C

Changed my mind, and it helps me make a decision about.

C

Which way I vote, I might here anymore, he says, but I don't think that would change.

C

If he spoke first or last, just it'll just show that I'm not as smart as I.

C

Think duncan to waive that privilege and if he wants to speak first, he can pass.

G

And speak last, if he's maybe, but I don't, I don't. I think duncan speaks best for.

G

How he should be contributing to the commission- and I respect his opinion.

G

Very much a second that chris or just don't have me, go first, okay, but I really.

H

I really think that the voting members auto-set the discussion I have, while I'm.

C

Just kind of technical issue: yes struggle with some positives, every.

C

Once in a while, because we're on mute so just a little trick, if you're on mute.

C

And you hold down your spacebar, you can it takes you out of mute, there's no lag.

C

While you're trying to turn on your your audio expert.

B

We're all because, one of these days, okay, really announcements all right. We are.

B

A