City of Bloomington, Indiana Historic Preservation Commission, 24 Sep 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission, September 24, 2020

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meeting packet: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=7650

A

Good evening, fellow commissioners and public I'd like to call the bloomington.

A

Historic preservation, commission meeting to order for thursday september 24th.

A

2020. and again, thank you for uh attending this evening.

A

uh Dee, can you do a roll call, doug bruce.

B

Sam desaler.

B

Susan dyer jeff golden here.

B

Deb hutton here lee sandwich here.

B

John saunders here.

B

Duncan campbell here, ernesto castaneda.

B

Derek ritchie here, jenny, southern.

A

All right great, thank you all right. Let's move on.

A

Approval for the minutes from our last.

C

Meeting so moved well, we need a motion. Jeff.

C

I moved to approve. Thank you second great. Thank you lee all right, dee.

B

Jeff golden yes deb hutton, yes, lee sandwich.

B

Abstain, john saunders, yes, chris durban.

D

Yes, motion carries four zero one. Thank you.

A

All right, let's move on to a certificate of appropriateness.

A

Coa 20-36 600 south woodlawn avenue, so this is a continuation from the last.

E

Commission meeting on september 10th, the commissioners asked uh mr kiefer to.

E

Return with some more information on how the porch edition will be.

E

Constructed I do want to note that there's been a slight change of plans.

E

Mr kiefer has listened to the commission and staff and.

E

um Kind of uh minimize the profile of the of the steel columns by reducing.

E

From four by four columns to two by two columns.

E

um They'll be square painted, black staff recommends approval of coa 2036 as.

E

The petitioner has returned with the.

E

Additional information, as you can see here so staff, would recommend approval.

A

Great. Thank you. Okay, uh joel you're with us.

F

Yes, sir, all right, do you have anything else you want to add before we start.

F

No, I yeah. um We drew that side elevation with the smaller.

F

Column as connor mentioned, so I think we're good all.

A

Right thanks joel uh chris, do you have any questions? No.

A

Jeff no question deb, no questions.

G

Lee no, no, no questions jerry.

H

Nope, no questions nope. All right now, you haven't got any.

A

Questions here, let's move on to comments. Chris, no.

C

I support this good luck. Thank you, deb. Thank you comments.

I

Great lee no comment.

A

uh Derek nope, no, I don't have any comment yeah. uh I.

A

Haven't got anything to add public comments, so do we have any public comments.

A

All right hearing that uh I need a motion.

C

To approve coa 28-36, oh second, all right, dee.

B

Jeff golden yes deb hutton. Yes,.

B

Lee san wise, yes, john saunders, yes, chris sterbom.

B

Yes, motion carries 500.. Thank you all right. We're going to move.

A

On to demolition delay, thank you guys we're going to start with.

A

uh 20-17 424 and a half south walnut street.

A

Connor, okay, uh so before we begin, I want to just put a disclaimer out there.

E

uh The petitioner josh alley earlier today.

E

Asked me to remove the item from the agenda and that the hbc not take any.

E

Action until october 8th, he said that.

E

We would like to table our petition until the next meeting to allow.

E

You to get all the materials we sent into the packet, we would like to be.

E

Moved to the october 8th agenda, I told josh that I wouldn't remove an.

E

Item from the agenda the day of the meeting, and that it was the prerogative of the commission to decide whether or not.

E

That they discuss or take action on the item.

E

um So that's up to you guys. I just wanted to put that out there that.

E

That was what the petitioner told me today.

E

And I do want to remind the commission of the proper procedure for.

E

Designating a building that isn't a demolition delay review. I know we've.

E

Made some errors in the past, and so I just want to run over the process again really quickly. First, the hpc must make the motion to.

E

Begin formal review for historic, designation.

E

What this does is it instructs staff to write a report, um a formal report that justifies why the building meets that.

E

Criteria, uh in addition, it instructs staff to send written notice to adjacent property owners to inform them.

E

That a meeting will take place where action on the designation may occur.

E

This is that meeting is usually the next hpc meeting so two weeks down the road.

E

um And then, at that meeting the hpc may then.

E

Make the motion to forward to the common council for designation.

E

And place the another separate motion to place the item under interim protection.

E

um So that's just the procedure is kind of like a three-step process here.

E

That happens uh between two different meetings.

E

um So I just wanted to reiterate that and and one final thing.

E

um I want to remind the commission that any images you see.

E

Tonight of the potential new building should not be factored into your.

E

Decision to demolish or save 424 south walnut, this is so for several.

E

Reasons reason: one: the petitioner is not obligated to build anything in the wake.

E

Of this building's demolition number, two events can happen that, for.

E

Stall or make it impossible for the petitioner to build and number three if new construction does happen, the petitioner is not.

E

Obligated to follow any design shown today to the commission.

E

So I just kind of wanted to reiterate that that if you see some some, you know proposed designs that that should not factor in your decision.

C

So connor have a question sure if we did postpone it another two weeks.

C

I know we talked about this earlier. Would there still be time to do the.

C

Process in the right way, yes,.

E

Excellent, what that would be, I mean the next. It would have to be started at the.

E

Next meeting on october, 8th, that would be the absolutely.

C

We'd have to do it on the 8th yeah, unless you wanted to have a special.

E

Call a special meeting, then we could get together even sooner than waiting the two weeks, but the deadline. The 90-day deadline is october.

E

30Th great, thank you, so I I believe that this is a pretty.

C

Important to both sides and that to to be able to see all the.

C

Information is important, um so I'm in favor of.

C

Postponing this to the next meeting, okay.

A

um Do we want to hear from josh? First I mean in agreement with everybody, but.

A

Maybe you know, maybe we should hear from the petitioner that that's what he really wants to do.

D

Yes, I'd like to hear that yeah, hey, hey guys, um I'm on here. Can you hear me? Okay,.

J

Here we can yeah all right and and part of the rationale.

J

For me, requesting that is, is we submitted a lot of petitions.

J

um I know at the last meeting some of our petitions, weren't included.

J

And- and so there was, I think mr richie asked for he wanted.

J

More public comment, and so um there's obviously been a lot.

J

Of public comment and- and I know when we requested that.

J

Those being included in the packet today, we were told that we didn't submit them.

J

In a timely manner, so that's why they were excluded and so to be fair. I just wanted those, and so that's why I asked for the delay.

J

And so that's that's where that come from so yeah my request.

J

Is still if we can push this to the eighth I'd, like all the material that we submitted to be included in the packet, so the public can see what.

J

What was in it? Okay, thank you, josh all right, uh jeff,.

A

um You uh have mentioned that you would be.

A

In favor of postponing this, the next one, all right so I'd like to make that.

C

Official motion all right right.

D

I have some questions. Is there a time to ask those is that, after the motion.

D

Well, jeff has a motion on the floor, and so we need to accept it.

A

K

He not a second, you can. Second, the motion.

L

And then you can discuss yeah I'll. Second.

I

Deb's motion all right. Thank you. Okay, now we're open for a discussion so.

A

uh Chris, you have questions yeah question.

D

One we've never done this before other.

D

Cities have designating the facade only.

D

As a possibility, I want to know if that's something that we could consider.

E

uh I I don't think so. I think it's the the building or.

E

Or not, I I don't know maybe philippa can um comment on that is their language in.

E

The in you know title eight to allow us to designate the front of a building or part of a building. Maybe there is.

E

Philippa, I'm not aware of any.

L

That doesn't mean that you couldn't strike a deal with the petitioner to.

L

Preserve the facade.

J

And actually hey guys, this is josh again.

J

And that's one of one of our questions and and.

J

We believe that we found one of the earliest pictures of this actual players.

J

Pub and so I know a lot of discussions.

J

If you would connor, do you mind putting up the picture that I sent earlier.

J

um That's the earliest photo of the players bob there. Actually, I don't think.

J

It is, and so, if you'll allow me to share my.

J

Screen I can that one and the reason I say that.

J

Is because the the picture that you had up there earlier was from 1951 and we.

J

Actually found this on facebook from one of the public history sites.

J

And so that car right there is, is probably a 1942 or 1943 chevy.

J

And so that's that's where I'm basing my conclusion and.

J

If you'll notice, there's there's no m on the building.

J

um The portion to the right, the vestibule.

J

Is obviously either been added or different? um The windows it looks like.

J

There's planter boxes in there. um The windows are obviously.

J

Just than what's on there today, and so like.

J

And chris, it's not that we're opposed to you know to to trying to work something.

J

Out between what we'd like to do, and and what's there currently, it's just you know from a historical.

J

Perspective, we don't know which, time in history that.

J

People are are trying to save because there's obviously been many variations of this building over time. There's several.

J

Different variations of brick there's a picture that we found that we.

J

Believe to be the earliest one that is isn't even brick and so.

J

And then you know, there's no m on this building, which we've had a whole lot of.

J

Discussion around the mitchell brothers, I mean, I, you guys know that that we own two of those mitchell properties and we've.

J

Restored them, um but this you know this appears to be.

J

The only if it was a mitchell building, which I don't even know that that's the case, I'm not sure that they built it or if they.

J

Restored it or if they did something to it down the road, but this is the only mitchell building that I've ever seen.

J

That doesn't have brick on all four sides, and so it's it's vastly different from anything else. That's out there. It's.

J

Vastly different from the ones that I have it's vastly different from those.

J

Houses that you guys showed at the last meeting, and so that's that's the confusion, I'm not sure.

J

Is I'm not sure I guess what we're what we're trying to.

J

A

I see that picture.

A

I tend to think that the one that we saw before.

A

Is an older photo because the best the vegetable wasn't built at that time.

A

And there's also a side entry. That's been shut off in the photo. You got josh.

A

And the awning the awning was added also.

J

Well, there's no door in the other picture and there's no way to prove that.

J

There is an m in this picture either sir. You know so I'll comment on that josh. I.

E

Have a email from the son of henry boxman.

E

Who lived in this building here? And he said that there was always an.

E

M on a building and his dad said, the m stood for mortgage.

J

Well, it doesn't even stand for mitchell, but.

J

I mean, then we didn't doctor this picture anywhere. Guys like you can go.

J

Find it on facebook.

A

We understand that josh um and thank you for so. We have a motion on.

C

The table in a second may, I say.

M

Can you hear me this is tim ellis? Yes, tim.

M

May I say something before you vote well, this team. This is just to delay.

A

The decision to our next meeting- okay- all I want to do is say that I own.

M

Properties on the west side and the south side of this.

M

Property and I have never received a notification.

M

Of any of this process, one of my tenants did, but I would like.

M

To be on the list to be notified and be sent information, as this moves.

M

Through the process, we'll put you on that list, tim tim, if.

E

The hpc makes a motion to start the formal.

E

Process of designation, that is when written notice is sent to the adjacent.

E

Property owners, but that hasn't happened at this stage.

M

Well, I had a tenant received a notice a month ago,.

E

I don't I don't know what that was, that might come from planning that the building was going through a demolition delay.

E

But we wouldn't send those if I can be notified. I'd appreciate it. Okay,.

A

Absolutely tim, okay! Thank you. You're welcome.

A

Okay, so we have a motion, a second on the floor.

A

um Let's move to voting uh d, would you do the role okay, jeff golden.

C

Yes, ebb hutton, yes, lee san wise.

B

Yes, john saunders, yes, chris sterbum, yes, motion carries.

B

Five: zero zero. um I'm here also I joined late doug bruce.

N

Yes, okay, great, thank you so much question. If we can ever get back.

E

So, okay! No! um So for the for the 20 25 of you that.

E

Joined to to comment in support of this demolition or in favor of saving the building.

E

I'm sorry uh you would have you need to come back to the.

E

uh October 8th meeting um to then have comment when this will be discussed so.

E

If you would like to to do comment, please um you know the.

E

Links will be available and you can show up at the october 8th zoo meeting.

E

And and and let us know your comments, thank you.

J

Hey connor, which email can they send this to.

E

uh My email, it's h-e-r-t-e-r-I-c,.

E

Bloomington.In.Gov. Thank you. Thank you.

A

For all the members of the public who came this evening to.

A

Talk about this property all right, let's move on to.

A

Demolay uh 20-21 excuse me. Could I ask the last of my.

D

Question, well I'm sorry, chris, yes, sure.

D

So it's always a little muddy and I think.

D

um Staff just was talking, legal staff was talking about not.

D

Committing to drawings that were shown or any of those.

D

Items, but should the petitioner commit to a.

D

Drawing at the commission at the historic.

D

Commission, it still is my understanding that that.

D

Commitment that the builder makes is binding when.

D

They make it under this in this condition of this meeting. That's for a coa.

L

Yeah with demo delay, you are not allowed to consider.

L

What the future or intended use of the property is after demolition,.

O

What are you supposed to focus on on the historic value or not historic, value of.

L

The building, that's being what, if the petitioner chooses to.

D

Propose a work that saves part of the building.

D

Knowing that that would influence the voting of the commission.

D

He is allowed to commit to that. It seems to me.

L

Well, but I think you're not talking about demo delay anymore.

L

Yeah I haven't been asked this question, so we'll have to look at it and now we.

L

Have a week or two, but um it seems to me that.

L

It would be either a substantial or a partial demolition at that point,.

L

um And maybe it would be a coa rather than demo delay, because demo delay is.

L

For full demolition here, yeah there's no commercial demolition.

E

There's no coa because this isn't designated so this is purely.

E

An entirely separate function with demolition delay, ordinance.

E

And I think what chris is asking is there is: can there be some kind of.

E

Binding agreement, if they say it in a meeting and agree to it.

E

But I don't think that's a possibility. It's.

A

Yeah, philip, we need to find that out, yeah, I I don't think so either, but we'll.

L

Have to look at it: okay, chris well and then hey. This is josh again.

J

Guys, like I mean I, I know that, like I said we we've owned.

J

Two of these buildings before we've restored two of these buildings, so.

J

Like and I've said in the past that we didn't get here.

J

Easily, and so we would, we would be willing to work with you guys and.

J

Preserve what we can, but there's got to be a middle ground in there somewhere.

J

And we'd like to try to find it, and so we're we're. Okay with that, but.

J

Especially if it helps benefit everyone from the time aspect, because I know we.

J

Don't want to waste anyone's time, as I'm sure you guys don't want to waste anyone's time. Great. Thank you josh. So we need to find.

D

A legal way to do any of that discussion, negotiating commitment and.

D

That's what I think we asked philippa to come back with, perhaps yeah. We will.

L

We will figure out how that works. Thank you all right.

A

Thanks chris all right, let's move on to the demolition 2021.

E

All right, this is uh doug. Are you with us.

N

Yes, yes, sure.

E

420 east 12th street uh part of the cottage grove edition which is planted.

E

From 1896 to 1905., the structure appears to be in fair.

E

Condition cottage grove was a potential historic district identified.

E

In the city of bloomington 2001 interim report.

E

But no action has been taken on that, so it's not currently designated as.

E

Anything um request is for a full demolition of the structure. Staff recommends releasing demo delay 2021 unless.

E

The preservation commission is prepared to recommend the establishment of the.

E

Cottage grove, historic district staff doesn't find that the.

E

Structure as an individual structure meets the criteria for designation.

E

Okay, uh doug, do you have anything to ask I I appreciate the recommendation.

P

My tenure with this building began uh in the late 1960s.

P

My parents purchased the property across the alley. You can kind of see it there.

P

To the left of the picture- and that was one of my first jobs- was to keep the.

P

Hedge down and mow the grass, I understand that one of the.

P

Commissioners has some history with this building, I think doug bruce might have some time with it. I think I'm a little.

P

More historical than doug is at least in in age count.

P

So um hit I don't know that we overlapped.

P

uh During during those early days, very much with this.

P

uh We purchased this building um in august of 2019.

P

It's in our fiscal budget to remove it this year, uh we we purchased it with.

P

Intent to to demolish it, the previous owners were.

P

An investment group out of greenfield indiana.

P

uh The last tenancy here was a rough one: people stopping going.

P

All through the day in and out.

P

Other nefarious type things going on our tenants around the building we own.

P

Everything around it we're concerned about the activity. Of course, the address.

P

On the building didn't really help matters much.

P

In that regard and the the police began to monitor it and.

P

The tenancy left fairly soon after that and it sat.

P

Vacant for quite some time, a water line broke um during cold.

P

Weather and some 42 thousand gallons rolled through the building and out the.

P

Back, uh it was essentially let go.

P

For for some time, we haven't done anything to the building, since we.

P

Purchased it other than to keep the grass mode trash picked up.

P

That type of thing in that that we had no plans to further invest in the.

P

Building we paid a significant amount of money for it uh simply to protect our investments around.

P

It um as far as the the cottage grove.

P

Avenue or I'm sorry, cottage grove um historic district goes if you review.

P

The the um the interim report.

P

The cottage grove district does not include this building.

P

uh It's some some blocks away along 12th street.

P

So while I I can appreciate the sentiment.

P

It does not fall within that historic district study area.

P

um Happy to answer any questions uh again, I appreciate your service. I don't.

P

Think you get told that enough uh thanks for being here today, thanks.

P

For hearing our our petition.

A

um Okay, so chris do you have any questions.

D

Yeah is it to just be grass after you get done? Is that the idea.

P

Yes, all right, one, three or two.

P

I'm sorry, are you gonna plant a tree or two? I said.

D

P

In time my guess is in time when the you know, when replacement.

P

Improvement happens that there'll be significant.

P

Landscaping issues or additions to that that uh new building.

D

Right, thank you. Yeah uh jeff questions, no question. Do you have questions.

G

No questions, please no questions good.

N

No questions derek.

H

Yeah has the petitioner considered maybe selling the house or working with.

H

Bri on maybe restoring the item or what's.

H

Bloc, what's stopping that from happening.

P

We're not interested in maintaining the building on site.

P

If, if bri has an interest in in moving it and using it,.

P

We would have no objection to that as long as it occurred in some.

P

Some timely fashion, I would say, within a calendar year.

P

We would have no objection to that and doug.

H

Next question would be: um are you familiar with why this building.

H

Would be rated contributing and what that means.

H

Yes, I'm well, I'm familiar with the system.

P

In, in my opinion, it it's a matter of form.

P

And age um the rest of it has been, you may be familiar with this turn, but.

P

Eisenhower'd to the point that there's very little of.

P

Its original uh original elements left the windows.

P

Are different, the siding is different, the roof is, is new, but is is nowhere close to anything original.

P

The foundation piece is original. It's unusual that there are foundations.

P

To these buildings, one of the reasons we think there is.

P

Is because the topography drop in the back.

P

These buildings were generally built on stilts.

P

In this neighborhood uh there, the water, though, as an ex this, was something.

P

Interesting I learned recently the sewer system was put in in.

P

1922 in the water system in 1924, so these were all built with.

P

Cisterns and an outhouse um and the the integration of plumbing of.

P

The plumbing areas into this building kind of support that.

P

But but in terms of its designation, my guess is that the leading.

P

Element of including it as it with most of the buildings around here is strictly.

P

Age, well, I I think one of the other reasons.

H

Typically, is that it provides context, and it in the sense that.

H

It allows the buildings next door to it to provide that context. And if you kind.

H

Of take one out, then it loses. You know.

F

And that takes some time and and I I'm sensitive to that.

P

uh Two doors down from this: we have a building like this with.

P

Logs on it, the build my point being is that this particular.

P

Section of 12th street is compromised from its its original.

P

Form uh caddy corner across the street, or two second generation post world war.

P

Ii, buildings- uh something happened to the original.

P

Buildings that were on there keep in mind that coal.

P

Stoves in these these stilted buildings and.

P

And fires were were prevalent, but there was no public water.

P

System to to help put them out, so you lost a number of buildings. This is a.

P

Mix in this in this particular block.

P

Of modern and and even moved in structures on the corner of dunn and.

P

12Th is a is a u.s home that was moved um when the high point development.

P

um Which has been torn down and redone already.

P

uh Was was brought in and that building was set on a vacant lot.

P

So it's it's kind of a mix mash of um of setting of.

P

And in terms of continuity, it you have to pick and choose.

P

Which one you you you want to use in that regard, but I do.

P

Understand what what you're saying in terms of context.

H

Okay and conor, you did a 360., you know uh if you stood around this.

H

Building and did a 360, I mean: what does that.

H

Mean what's your opinion on its uh it's contributing nature.

E

Let me pull it up real, quick. Let's take a look.

E

I mean yes, each property adjacent to it. You know it's still.

E

Part of the historic context um some here yeah- these are probably a.

E

Little later he says post war, maybe, but I was I was thinking.

E

Maybe a little earlier than that. um Oh this is the area that I use.

H

Totally demolished everything around it as well.

H

I remember right so behind it. Yeah definitely.

E

When you go down down it's I mean.

H

Yeah, once you go further east than this, it's a total.

H

Wipeout they've wiped everything out there.

H

Okay, yeah there, it is all right. I appreciate it thanks.

A

Thank you darren duncan nope all right. Thank you duncan.

A

So uh any members of the public have any.

A

A

All right hearing none, so we need to move forward at this. Do we.

A

Have any comments? Chris? No comment? Okay,.

A

Jeff any comments: do you have any comments.

A

Lee any comments, no no comments. Do I get any comments. Sure.

N

um I, I would just add, I lived in this house for a while.

N

But I guess that that doesn't qualify it for any sort of historical status. I I.

N

Looked um my great grandmother, lillian tabor.

N

Lived in this house- and I it was, uh I can't even tell you how long I mean.

N

I'm 57, I remember going to this house as a small child.

N

When the street was still brick and grandma used to talk about how the.

N

Street used to be dirt, she worked at indiana bell when.

N

They first opened and used to walk down up the street and down the indiana bell.

N

To be a phone operator there, um uh it's we're lucky. The house is.

N

Probably still here, even today, it's a small miracle because.

N

When I lived there, my great grandmother was canning and.

N

And and and was boiling wax or something and melting wax and went in to answer.

N

The phone and the house is kind of a shotgun house.

N

On both sides there's two front doors on the porch. I.

N

Lived on the left side, she lived on the right side and it truly was a shotgun house. It had been.

N

Changed inside a bunch, the windows had been changed, so I agree.

N

With everything that doug has said, but uh grandma went in to.

N

Answer the phone and I smelled smoke and went running around.

N

The back porch and over to her side, she always left the door open and her.

N

Cabinets were on fire. um She was sitting on the phone for ail.

N

As she was just talking to someone and oblivious to the kitchen on fire.

N

um I put the fire out and carried the wax. Can the wax cooker out to the back.

N

Porch, because every time I took the lid off it flamed up again, the basement was a mess. The foundation.

N

Was a mess she used to have the greatest briar.

N

Patch and garden in the backyard, of course, it's not there she's. She.

N

Passed away, while I was in architecture school in 19, I think 88 or 89, so I just wanted to bring up a little.

N

Bit of history to house, I do know it. I know it well.

N

But I also know how much has changed as much as it looks so quaint from here.

N

I couldn't imagine what the water damage would have done to it.

N

So that's my comment. Thank you. Doug.

A

Derek, do you have any comments? Well, based on that story alone, I'm ready to.

H

Designate but you know in all seriousness, I think.

H

You know it's it's it's tough! This is a tough one, because.

H

It's it is sort of still it's it's contributing there, it's hanging in there, it's something to consider. I know it's.

H

Not the most beautiful thing to look at.

H

With that that porch looks like it's about to fall.

H

Off um the cup porch cover, but I just.

H

Really hesitate at this point to just sign off on.

H

On on demolishing um contributing buildings and.

H

Maybe this is something doug and bri can discuss further, but.

H

I certainly would recommend at least a conversation with steve wyatt.

H

And see what we can do.

H

Can I comment on that before you move on? I just looked up what uh stansky and.

C

Horn paid for that property and that's going to make that very difficult for.

C

Bra to make it work.

H

Yeah jeff, I don't I don't doubt that, but it's worth at least.

P

Well, we we would not, let forgive me is it john. May I clarify something.

P

uh We are not interested in selling the property.

P

That's that's not an offer that that we're.

P

Prepared to make if bri wants the building.

P

And would like to move it or use elements of it.

P

uh That is perfectly acceptable, but we are not interested in selling the.

P

Property thanks john uh duncan: do you have any.

A

Comments, oh all right hearing, none.

A

So we don't need to vote on this um today regarding the property located.

A

At foreign east 12th street, the historic.

A

Preservation, commission declares that it got medicine for frozen.

A

Demolition and after today's discussion sees no.

A

Need to review the plans any further and waves, the rest of the demolition.

A

Delay waiting period, the hpc may later recommend the property.

A

For his right, designation to the dominant account all right.

A

The bruce doug bruce yes.

B

Jeff golden yes, deb hutton.

B

Yes, john saunders.

B

Chris turbo, yes,.

B

Motion carries six zero, zero, great thanks, doug for uh being with us. This.

A

Evening, thank you uh all very much. You're.

A

Welcome: okay: let's move on to your demo delay.

A

20-22 1706 south huntington drive.

E

So this is the request for a full demolition accessory structure.

E

Whenever the accessory structure is deemed of the same era of construction,.

E

As the contributing or notable or outstanding.

E

Primary building, then a demolition delay occurs.

E

um So staff themed this was of the same air construction as the.

E

Bungalow on the lot, which is around 1930 1935,.

E

um And yeah, it is what it is. It's a garage that is extraordinarily.

E

Deteriorated, the walls are, you know bowing out, and uh you know you.

E

Have a lot of rock going on and staff would.

E

Recommend demolition or releasing demo delay 2022.

A

Is there a petitioner here, no okay.

A

um Our petitioners know what this is evening, but.

A

Do we want to discuss this any further.

K

I didn't think we could hear it if the petitioner wasn't present.

K

We can, as uh we can, for demo delays, but not for coas.

C

I have no questions or comments regarding this all right. Thank you. Jeff.

G

Connor, have you been to see it and it looks just as as we see it in the.

G

Photograph yeah, I took those photographs.

A

um Lady, you have any questions or comments. I have neither.

A

Okay, and uh do you have any uh questions or comments? No.

A

Duncan well, you know you all know. I've always been an advocate for these.

K

Ancillary buildings- um and I I can see in the picture that it's in pretty rough.

K

Shape, I'm a little disappointed that the petitioner couldn't be bothered to be here.

K

um It kind of irks me but- um and I.

K

I can't really, I can't really evaluate whether it could be repaired or not, but.

K

From the picture, but I I will repeat that I I.

K

I really appreciate it when we have a good structural report on these.

K

Buildings that other people say aren't any good.

K

So I appreciate that connor went there this time and took a picture, but.

K

It doesn't tell me very much to be honest.

K

About how easy it would be or difficult, it would be to straighten up this.

K

Building and put it put some paint on it, so we're.

K

Losing all of them- and I'm I'm just I'm distressed by it.

K

There we dismiss them very easily.

A

You know that's a good point duncan and thank you for bringing it up. Maybe.

A

um The next time that this happens and we have to do an evaluation on the.

A

Building um then maybe connor could get in touch.

A

With one of us and go out with them and look at it.

K

I think that's a good idea, I'm always happy to do that. Guys.

E

um But remember this is just the first day of a 90-day demo delay. So this is.

E

You know this is not something I'm going to go out and do a whole structural report on it before we even talk about it.

E

If it's something you guys want to investigate more, I'm happy to do that at a later time,.

A

Okay, any more questions or comments just to comment. What demo delay.

D

Does is, let us see these as they go, and you know we honored the last building.

D

With memories about it and yet decided, if we can let that go.

D

And I cannot see us designating a garage.

D

That just can't see it, um but at least it's true it's it's.

D

Those old sliding doors were in my neighborhood and they've been replaced.

D

They're pretty cool, it looks like it's sinking into the ground, pretty big.

D

Time I've fixed garages like this, so it isn't impossible.

D

But I do understand sometimes it's time to say goodbye to.

D

Those well when the petitioner's, not here, we.

K

Don't have any leverage or you know he doesn't get to hear what we.

K

Think he doesn't, he or she doesn't doesn't get to participate in.

K

The discussion doesn't get to consider other alternatives.

K

I just don't think we should be hearing it if the petitioner doesn't bother show.

K

Up, we don't owe that to them, so the.

E

Petitioner was extraordinarily upset that this was.

E

Even going to a demolition delay, well, that's too bad right, but what I'm.

E

Saying is, this is not one of those petitioners who are, you know, willingly going to show up and participate in the process.

E

If they don't have to well, that's not my problem. That's his.

K

Problem exactly that's not his problem, all right.

A

Thank you for the comments, um so let's just go ahead and release it. If.

A

That's that's. Okay,.

A

All right today regarding the property located.

A

At 1706 huntington drive.

A

The strike preservation commission declares that it got notice.

A

Of demolition and after today's discussion sees no need to review the.

A

Plans any further and waves arrest the demolition delay.

A

Waiting period, the hpc may later recommend the property.

A

For a strike designation to the county capital.

D

Second, thank you dee. Would you.

B

B

Steph golden yes deb hutton. um I couldn't hear jeff.

G

John, very well, through the mask, so are we.

G

Could you tell me the motion, is it? Is it putting it on to the next meeting or.

G

We're releasing it for demolition.

G

Okay, um yes, lee sand wise, yes,.

B

John saunders, yes, chris sterbom, yes, motion, carry six zero.

B

Zero. Thank you all right. uh I don't see anything on our.

A

New business, but in our old business we have the.

A

Restaurant road design, guidelines and samsung with us this evening.

E

I reached out to sam after the last meeting and asked him to.

E

Specify that the pages he was talking about the graphics that he wanted to get.

E

Fixed- and I haven't heard back from him on that yet so.

A

So we'll table this to our next meeting. If that's all right.

A

Yes, create with me. Yes, yes, yes thank you.

A

uh Commissioner comments um I I'd like to this is doug.

N

I mean duncan brings up a really good point and- and you know about.

N

Having and I about having petitioners here- and I don't know if that's.

N

Something that can be changed going down the road or changed even in the ordinance, because I think it's important for us to have.

N

Any kind of dialogue and discussion.

N

um It's it's. It shows that it's important.

N

To them- and it shows literally, I think, respect towards us.

N

And what we do, um I also think chris sturban brought up an interesting point.

N

About this about this, this last case the.

N

The uh idea you know that we really haven't or or maybe we have- and I don't.

N

Recall saved an accessory structure like a garage. um This one looked pretty far gone. I I'd.

N

Like to maybe have known a little bit more about it, but I was kind of swayed by that that I don't believe that we have saved one.

N

uh To that extent, without someone volunteering, it we've certainly had.

N

People come before us, maybe specifically in the prospect hill.

N

Neighborhood that have an accessory building that.

N

They're going to do something with or- and you know again because it's of.

N

Where it's located they've got to come before us and we get to.

N

Approve things, but it's interesting about the idea of saving or not saving.

N

An accessory structure like a garage like this, so I'd like to.

N

Have a little more discussion on that, and maybe that's something we can even look at down the road as some sort of report on you know,.

N

Where how many of these structures do we think we have that we might.

N

Start to see, um I don't know those are just my thoughts from tonight's meeting.

A

Thank you doug. We appreciate that um felipe. Can you look into that.

A

If there's something that we can do to enjoy.

A

Yes, great. Thank you. Okay, um any public comments this evening.

G

Can I ask you a question yes, dude uh well sort of connor from in terms of.

G

The player's pub um in the packet that I suppose the.

G

Public saw because it was put up on the hand.

G

um Website for today's meeting there were.

G

I don't know five or six or eight of the comm public comments.

G

But in the subsequent uh two emails you sent to us, there were.

G

What twenty more so, does that mean that by.

G

Next and two weeks from now for october, will you be attaching all 30 or 40 in.

G

The say in next week, next meetings, packet or we'll keep these for.

G

The future or what I I planned on.

E

Just uh keeping the old ones and adding any new ones I get and attaching it all.

E

As part of the packet.

E

So all of them are together in one place from beginning to end.

G

D

I have a question: is: is there any way to look further into that photograph? It.

D

Seems that those were more modern edition changes.

D

To an older building, and just because the outdated car was.

D

There it didn't mean that was the year the car was made or anything like that.

A

Yeah, I don't buy that because when we look at this photo.

A

Right here that connor has up, we can see that both those doors have been blocked.

A

Off that, where he's got the cursor at.

E

Yeah and this this is the oldest photo, that's going on.

A

Yeah, I think so it does show that that building has changed.

C

Significantly over the years, it does.

E

And there might be an m here that we just can't see because of poor shading.

E

You know I mean it could just be poor graphic quality as well.

E

You may not be able to see it because it's hard to see the windows in this.

E

But they're they look the same here, but they look different here.

E

That's just poor, photographic quality, or could some owner have painted over it.

G

For five years, because they didn't like the m they're at their their last name,.

G

Was like hutton and they had an h, and so they would get rid of the m.

G

Well, their last name was boxman. um I don't know this prick doesn't look.

E

Painted to me, but perhaps it is it's hard to tell in the black and white.

K

Pretty sure that's a 51 or 52 chevy, not a 42.

A

Yeah, I think you're right duncan, I had a 54 looked a lot like that.

I

Didn't the petitioner ask uh what iteration we wanted to go back to.

I

And I guess my question is: uh how far back would we have to go for it.

I

To be uh designated, what 50 years.

I

So so, if it's like in the late 60s in iteration in the late 60s or what.

I

It is now um you know we're, certainly we're not.

I

Going to turn back the hands of time, but um uh yeah this building's gone through.

I

A lot of changes, so whatever the.

I

Appearance of it.

I

Is now everybody's recognized, and it has been that way for quite a long time. I.

I

Don't know- and there were some some of the public.

C

Comment or a lot of it was more about players pub.

C

Than the boxman's or this building or.

C

You know so I found that interesting right.

I

Right well, it's got a rich rich commercial business and cultural history.

I

um But how long has it been players pub 30 years.

C

Not even that long.

E

You know yeah the pit stop. I went there with my dad when he came to visit me in.

C

I

So it's kind of is complicated. um The thing is.

I

It it's a structure that is so laden with uh business. History.

I

Culture, especially because of players pub cultural history, the music.

I

Scene um yeah: this is this is really complicated, but I.

I

I think, what's not complicated is that it's a really important structure.

G

And if you look at some of the pictures going on from what you said, lee.

G

uh Remembering that he wanted josh wanda say well, so what iteration? If we agree.

G

To go back and do some kind of compromise, but there are.

G

Some aspects that are common so just looking at the player's pub picture.

G

Right now we see the, I don't have all the architectural.

G

Terminology, of course, but a lot of the windows with the upper.

G

Level being slatted windows, if you look in the.

G

Oldest picture, they were there too. If you look at the uh the glass fronted.

G

um Yeah boxed out door, even in the pit stop.

G

They covered it with wood and plywood and cone painted it gray and.

G

Then green and then it got opened up more for the player's.

G

Pub so there's see, there's so an aspect of that jutting out uh entrance and they're sort of half of each.

G

um And some of the doors and so the limestone over there. So some aspects of.

G

That are retained on and off or throughout.

G

That might be agreed upon as the essence of these two buildings.

I

Yeah, the the building to the to the south.

I

The the mitchell, the m building that's the least changed the deco.

I

You know curved windows come and go the the window to the.

I

Far north the one with the uh little yeah that that window.

I

It seems to be in more pictures than than others um there's. I think, there's.

I

Enough there to work with, I mean, whatever they end up.

I

Doing with it, uh if they're willing.

I

If, if we just, if we, if we vote to move it.

I

To the common council to designate they have a lot to work with, and it it would.

I

I think it could be an interesting project for.

I

Somebody who's, creative and it could keep. uh People seem to be.

I

Really interested in keeping this as part of bloomington's.

I

Built landscape- and I I'm really in favor of that.

H

Connor on the photo you have up right now.

H

The side of the mitchell brothers building appears to be brick to me.

H

um It's certainly not slatting, or you know, hey guys. This is josh again.

J

That that side there, it's not brick anymore. It's it's all.

J

Wood that what you're talking about sir down.

H

The siding all you have left was wood. Yes, sir, and.

J

So yeah and and as far as like trying to.

J

Save the front there's there's about eight different colors of.

J

Brick in there as well, and so uh in.

J

The window design, I'm sure that, like those windows, are all rotted.

J

Ma'am and so like they're they're rotted beyond.

J

Repair they're single pane windows, so they're not efficient at all or anything.

J

But I'm sure that we could try to figure out how to incorporate those and the design that we have.

J

And you know the slats at the top, I'm sure we could probably.

J

Try to incorporate the vestibule concept and connor, I'm not sure.

J

If you're, okay, with sharing the kind of what.

J

The two pictures that um there's that one.

J

And so uh and I'm sure we could try to figure out how to incorporate.

J

All the brick that's on the building and in this design somehow, but.

J

But uh but we're not opposed to any any of that at all and and.

A

Guys, I don't think we should be discussing this at this point.

A

Yeah no kidding I've already tabled it right.

A

Exactly so republic is already gone yeah. I think we need to stop right here and.

A

Pick this back up at our next meeting.

A

Let's do that all right! Thank you. Thank you, josh for being with us. This.

A

Evening, um I don't see anything else on our agenda.

A

So I'm going to call for adjournment slow motion. Thank you dave. Thank you all.

A

See you guys next week or two weeks, thank you.

O

O