City of Bloomington, Indiana Historic Preservation Commission, 8 Oct 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission, October 8, 2020

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meeting packet: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=7704

A

Thank you. I'd like to uh cover honor the bloomington historic preservation.

A

Commission meeting for thursday october 8th 2020.

A

Thank you for everybody. Coming to our immediate evening,.

A

We have special guests, mr and mrs boxman are.

A

Going to join the meeting and if we uh have any questions so you might be able.

A

To help us out so um let's do a call order.

A

Is these out there.

B

Roll call, dean, she's, probably needed.

C

Can you hear me? Yes, we can now yeah. Thank you.

C

Sorry I got lost somehow doug bruce.

C

Sam desaler susan dyer, here jeff golden here.

C

Deb hutton lee sandwich here.

C

John saunders yeah chris durbaum here duncan campbell.

C

Ernesto castaneda here derek ritchie, jenny, southern.

D

I'm here, but it wouldn't. Let me unmute myself. This is derek.

D

Okay, gotcha, okay, one two: three: we have corn.

A

All right, uh I need a motion to approve the minutes from september 24th.

E

So moved this is jeff.

F

A

I think I can all right I'll. Second, uh the approval of the minutes.

C

Okay, uh sam desaler.

C

Susan dyer abstain, jeff golden yes,.

C

Lee san wise- yes, john saunders, yes,.

C

Chris turbo, yes,.

C

Motion carries four zero. Two great! Thank you all right. Let's move on.

A

To uh coas uh 20-40k.

A

703 south woodlawn avenue m heights. Is there a petitioner with us? Yes,.

G

Can you hear me.

B

All right, uh so this property is uh contributing.

B

uh American core square style home built circa 1920. The property is located in.

B

The ellen heights, local historic district, uh the owner, wants new windows because a single pane glass is easily broken.

B

And they would also like increase energy efficiency.

B

So the request is to replace all of the windows.

B

On the building, that's there is 36 window units on the building.

B

16 of those are original wood, double home windows. Those are all located on.

B

The upper story, um and then 20 of those are replacement.

B

Windows um reading the elm heights design.

B

Guidelines they state that, if original windows, doors or hardware.

B

Can be reused and restored, they should not be replaced.

B

So, in total, like I said, there's 36 window units.

B

Storm windows are not installed, staff did a site. Inspection from the outside.

B

And found that the sash muttons of the original windows on.

B

The upper story appear to be in good condition.

B

And uh really just need to be scraped painted and and.

B

New glazing put on there, um so staff would recommend partial approval of coa.

B

2041., the original windows that survive are not severely damaged or deteriorated. They should be maintained and repaired.

B

Staff has no issue uh with the replacement of the one over.

B

One uh windows that you see on the lower stories uh staff recommended practitioner that.

B

Performance would be installed to help protect the original wood windows sashes and also to increase the energy efficiency.

B

Of those windows- great, thank you connor and lindsey. Do you have any additional.

A

Information for us.

H

No, I feel like that was pretty much it. We just we've gotten so once again, we.

H

Are a rental company, so um we've gotten a lot of requests.

H

From tennis- oh sorry did I say I'm down in the other.

C

uh Conference room dee: can you please meet yourself.

B

Sorry go ahead, lindsay no you're. Okay. uh So once again we are.

H

A rental company this house is rented out to students. um We just get a lot of.

H

Complaints and last year had several arguments with a mother.

H

Where I tried to explain to her, you know your guys.

H

Your guys's guidelines, um you know, uh obviously the windows at the bottom had.

H

Been replaced uh so we are, would like to get for the.

H

Aesthetic purposes get the entire like get ever all the.

H

Windows, like kind of looking the same, um we do use a company.

H

Out of um montgomery indiana, so we do use a an amish.

H

Window maker, they do wake, make the windows in their own shops.

H

But we would be open to like, if you guys would only allow us to.

H

Make the windows, through a certain local company in bloomington.

H

Whatever you guys feel comfortable with, thank you lindsay here are some examples.

B

Of those windows that lindsey was talking about, that would be the.

B

Replacements they put on some of their other properties already.

B

So there you go. Thank you all right, bad question. Chris.

I

When did the lower windows get replaced, so we have owned that property for.

H

You'll have to bear with me: I've only been with the company for the past two.

H

And a half years uh to my knowledge, we've owned the property for about the past six or seven and they were replaced prior to us.

H

Purchasing them our best guesstimate would be in the.

H

Late 90s early 2000s, I don't know if conor has a better guess.

B

Have you looked into replacement windows that have grids on.

I

The glass I'm doing I have so I would be um so we.

H

Have done that so connor I wasn't able to get connor the.

H

Photos of a house that we've done that has those same kind of cottage grids.

H

Can you guys hear me there's some people chatting kind of over here.

I

I can hear you okay, so we have done houses similar.

H

To like, I think, the photos I was able to get connor, you just have the columns.

H

Right um but we have done one similar to this.

H

Where you get the six separate panes of glass on the top.

H

And we would be sticking with that style and we will be doing that throughout the.

H

House, additionally, we would be scraping and.

H

Painting all of the trim are they internal to the.

I

Glass or are they applied on the glass.

H

Could you clarify that question a little more grids.

I

They're grids they're in the glass or epoxied on the outside of the glass. No.

H

They're in the glass okay, thank you you're, aware of welcome.

H

Thank you, sir. Thank you guys. Jeff do you have.

A

Questions any questions to get any feedback from.

E

The local group- I have not heard.

B

From jenny, southern company, no thank you.

J

And I'm here too, I got here at 5, 10. yeah. We got you down.

A

Lady healing questions, I know no deb, do you have any questions.

A

uh No, I do not thanks all right. Thank you.

K

Susan, do you have any questions nope? I don't have any questions all.

A

Right sure two questions one is: uh would you can.

L

The petitioner confirm that the windows are gonna, be fiberglass. The proposed.

L

Replacements, uh and also are they proposing to do a.

L

One over one to match: what's there on the lower floor.

L

uh That's and then I got one more question for connor.

L

Afterwards, uh we would be doing fiberglass.

H

um Connor one over one connor, you expect yes, it would be one.

H

Over one, thank you connor connor. We we talked about that.

H

Connor one over one just means what one goes: yeah.

H

Okay, I'm sorry guys, I'm still learning all the technical terms.

L

Connor the question I've got for, you is related to the.

L

Last um the last thing on this property: did you.

L

Actually, staff approve the metal railings for this one.

B

Yes, I did um there, they are. Thank you.

A

Sam, can you turn your volume up or your mic up a little bit for us.

L

I'll see what I can do I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

B

I also want to add that I don't think that originally the windows were all one.

B

Over one, uh just looking at other uh patterns in the neighborhood and.

B

From other architectural styles, from from the period this house was built, if they're going to have these six over ones or.

B

Twelve over one patterns that would usually continue throughout the upper and lower floors, so when they replace them, they might have just replaced them with one over ones. Instead of keeping the same pain.

B

Configuration so I don't know that the one over one pane configuration is original to the house. Oh, let me let me clarify guys, because I think I finally.

H

Understood we'll be doing, I would like to do six over one on the entire house.

H

um Sorry, if that makes more sense like this you're talking like.

H

The six over one, yes yeah. I would like to do that all through the entire house.

L

That's clear, thank you now. Thank you. Oh that's! Good, sam.

A

All right ernesto, do you have any questions.

M

No questions at this point. Thank you derek. Do you have any questions.

D

I have no questions yeah and I don't have any questions at this point so.

A

Let's move to uh comments chris, yes, history.

I

Is a long time you know, and I just visited a house.

I

On rogers street, where we gave permission to the owner.

I

Because he bought the windows and he replaced them.

I

The new owner is just so sorry that they got replaced.

I

He's so glad we at least saved them in the garage.

I

And he's got a long-term plan of putting them back.

I

And as I look at this house, what glares are those one over.

I

One windows, the the details of the: what is that, twelve over one and.

I

Six over one, those are those are defining details of this house.

I

And those windows below are going to fail in.

I

The next 15 years, maybe 20 years but probably 15 years,.

I

And maintaining the character of those original windows.

I

Will mean that the new windows below in in as little as 15, 10 or 15 years.

I

Will be up for replacement and those the.

I

Character of that front of the building could be restored, so I would recommend uh true to not true divided lights, but.

I

The if we're going to let them be replaced.

I

Those same divided lights, but I think the our our directive really is not to let them be replaced, but have them be.

I

Restored and that's my position.

A

To clarify that a little bit, so the winners on the main level are replaced.

I

I know they are I'm saying they're going to fail.

I

In 10 or 15 years, because that's what those windows do.

I

We're replacing all the windows chris they're, replacing those replacement.

I

Windows down below yes, okay,.

I

Right well, six over one in a small one is very different from.

I

Six over one in a large window, so you maintain the pain of black.

I

Eyes, there's a dog making a comment: I'm trying to I'm trying to find out who.

B

It is someone is not muted, please mute your mic so.

I

There's a huge difference between on the glass and inside the glass.

I

One looks artificial, one maintains the character of the original windows.

I

So if they were replacing those lower windows and upper windows.

I

I would say: match the pane size with with the applied muttons on the outside.

I

Of the glass, if we are going to allow them to be replaced.

I

Or storm windows above and replace the lower ones with those.

I

A

uh Jeff comments yeah, I'm I'm in agreement with connor. On this. I.

E

Don't think that the existing windows should be replaced, I think they should be rebuilt and or have storm windows installed.

E

And I'm in agreement with chris that any windows.

E

That are now replacements that are going to be replaced.

E

Should match the the grid configuration of those size, windows.

A

Thank you. uh Thank you. Jeff jeff.

J

I agree with the summation that jeff just did.

J

Of everyone's comments.

N

I also agree with what jeff just said: susan.

K

A

Are you with us.

O

Okay, hey doug, you're, you're kind of.

B

Couldn't hear anything you said yeah john, yes,.

O

Okay, yeah I'm here. I agree with what yep.

A

No problem doug, uh we we appreciate you commenting you being here. Thank you.

A

L

I don't condone the replacement of original windows. uh I note that there.

L

Are two replacement windows on the upper story on in the middle of.

L

The north elevation, if you'd go to that one conor, can you guys tear me okay,.

L

Yes, okay, that's the west! If you go to the north, so that looks.

L

Like those two upper windows as well, our replacement windows.

L

And I and I would support doing like a on a.

L

Like a 6 over 12 on the upper 12 over 12 on the upper, but I think we can only.

L

Make a suggestion uh in that there are one over ones.

L

And they're the as of right, can replace a uh one over one. But if.

L

If they're willing to do a uh six over uh on a smaller window, but it looks.

L

Like there aren't any smaller windows like a 12 over one for the replacements, I would um be fine with those.

L

Provided that they are uh applied on both sides with.

L

Bars between the glass, otherwise, I just assumed see them with.

L

Plain one over ones because the other ones just look, they just don't.

L

They don't look like mutton windows all right. Thank you. Sam.

M

Yes, I would agree that all the replacement windows would be 12 over.

M

One, that's all I have all right. Thank you.

A

D

Yeah I'm with sam on this one, and I I also want to.

D

Alert you john, I think duncan, showed up here a little late, so he's here now too.

A

All right, thank you, derek duncan yeah hi.

P

Yeah, I I I agree basically with conor's recommendation. I think you should.

P

Preserve the original windows and, if you're, going to replace the.

P

We never did get a report on the condition of the replacement windows.

P

um But um they're not as important to us since.

P

They're already replacements, but I think they should be replaced with.

P

What was their original if it's at all possible, but.

P

As um sam pointed out, we can't really mandate that.

A

Thank you duncan, and actually I'd like to add that it's.

P

It's always cheaper to repair real wood windows.

P

Than it is to replace them with anything as good as that.

P

As they are, um if they, if they're maintained they'll last.

P

Virtually forever and putting a storm window on.

P

Is is the way to make sure that happens, the way to preserve your investment and.

P

Storm windows are way cheaper than new windows.

A

Thank you duncan. um I don't have any comments to make and.

A

My fellow commissioners to do for me, so we need a motion.

A

For coa 20-32 I move to partially approved coa 20 dash.

L

What are we 20, 41 42? Oh sorry, my bad 20-42.

L

With the caveat that the original windows be retained,.

L

And that the replacement windows can either be.

L

Replaced as in the configuration they currently are,.

L

Or with uh divided light windows with grids applied.

L

On both inside and outside with shadow bars.

L

Matching the 12 over one pattern on the existing original windows, all right.

A

Thank you. Thank you. Jeff d, doug bruce.

O

Yes, sam desaler, yes, susan dyer,.

C

Yes, jeff golden yes, deb hutton.

C

Yes, lee san wise, yes, john saunders,.

A

Yes, chris durban.

C

Christopher bomb.

C

C

Motion carries six zero, zero. I'm sorry, eight zero, zero.

C

Thank you d. uh So, let's move on to coa 20-43 north.

A

Washington street.

B

uh David tim are either of you present. I thought I saw tim earlier. Jim is here.

Q

Yes, okay, thank you. uh So this is a.

B

Contributing california bungalow uh style home built circa 1920.

B

Properties located in the garden hill, local, historic district.

B

uh Kind of the background on this case is city planning issue to stop work.

B

Order when it was discovered that some work was going on in the rear of.

B

The house, without a planning permit, um so the request is to construct an.

B

Eight by twelve by thirty foot, deck and screened in porch.

B

On the rear of the building, the porch will have asphalt, shingle.

B

Hip roof and heavy duty mesh screen will be installed from floor to ceiling.

B

um So the door, the windows in the rear of this building will be partially.

B

Obscured by this porch screening, but the rear of the home is only visible from an.

B

Alley, which is where I took this photograph while a drawing submitted by.

B

The petitioner is inaccurate. There is enough framing already erected.

B

To understand what is happening, so this is the drawing that I got from.

B

The petitioner, you can see it looks like a gable roof.

B

There but the framing looks like a hip, um so staff would recommend approval cua.

B

2043, the location of the deck and screen ports in the rear, which is where you want it, materials, are compatible with the.

B

Primary structure and the addition is subordinate and height and massing to.

B

The primary structure, so all these meet the local guidelines and.

B

The neighborhood design review committee uh voiced their approval of.

B

The project all right, mr uh or tim, do you have more comments.

Q

Tim, I'm taking uh david's place since I know about the.

Q

Construction of what I'm just doing for him, so I can answer the questions.

Q

For you, okay, do you have any additional comments.

A

For us, uh no, not really, I mean.

Q

We actually, we even put a uh french drain around the front of this too he's.

Q

Already got one french train, that's already in front of this wall, and we have another french train that comes around and comes around the house too, to take care of the drainage and stuff.

Q

That's up there.

Q

Didn't have the in that print, so I wanted to know that so.

A

Thank you very much all right. Those two questions, chris.

I

Yeah, will this be guttered yes, and was there a reason to go higher than.

I

The existing gutter line, because.

Q

When you step out the door, see the door right.

Q

Level with this little wall, that's down there and.

Q

So we we put a step out step up onto the deck.

Q

And we had to actually dig some of this dirt out here. To put this.

Q

To put that in, uh that's why we went higher so we'd have an eight-foot.

Q

Ceiling in there I see okay, thank you. Thank you.

A

uh Jeff questions no questions. Thank you. Dad questions, uh no questions.

J

N

K

Nope no questions. Thank you.

O

No questions share no questions. Thank you very much, john.

M

No questions. Thank you. Thank you. Derek no questions. Thank you duncan.

A

Great and I will follow suit and I don't have any questions on this.

A

So, let's move the comments. Chris miss the form is attractive.

I

I hope it is going to be painted or stained.

I

Not left natural wood, but pretty good nice looking roof. Thank you.

I

E

I support this coa. Thank you good job. um I support it just wondering.

J

From connor, if anyone in the garden hill local district made any.

J

Comments, I did I heard back from uh carrie and.

B

She told me that they support this.

A

All right lee, no questions, no comments. uh Susan.

K

Yeah I support this one as well. It really looks nice.

A

O

Yes, I support this, it's uh the neighborhood supports it and.

O

It's at the rear and we've always typically let these.

O

Let these go, and this looks really nice. Thank you dad, sam. I would support this.

L

But I would also suggest to the owner that they look into mosquito curtains.

L

Before they put the mesh up because you get a lot better light throughout the year, okay, all right! Thank you. Sam.

A

Ernesto no comments or questions, thank you looks good.

A

Right gary yeah um doug's right: this is how houses grow.

D

They grow from the back. This is just uh historic and true. I.

D

Think uh we uh definitely approved this one.

A

Great thank you derrick and duncan uh no comment all right. Thanks duncan.

A

um I must agree with everybody else. I think the.

A

Roof line is very good and I think it's gonna be a nice project.

A

And I support it as well, so I need a motion.

E

Move to approve 20-43.

A

O

Yes, sam desaler, yes, susan dyer,.

C

Yes, jeff golden yes, deb hutton.

C

Yes, lee san wise, yes don saunders, yes, chris sterbum.

I

Yes, motion carries eight zero, zero great. Thank you all right. So, let's.

A

Move on to coa 20-44.

A

Another garden hill district and it is 28 208, east 15th street.

B

Susan, are you with us? I am all right. Thank you.

B

I also have my uh contractor james on the.

R

On the meeting as well, wonderful good to know.

B

Hello, uh so this property is located in the garden, no local, historic district.

B

The home appears to be a crescent, which was a house model sold by.

B

Sears and roebuck and company.

B

The request is the demolition of a sun room on the rear of the home and.

B

Construction of a new rear edition that is 19 by 22.

B

Feet: uh renovation of the front, porch area.

B

um To bring it back to where what it originally would have looked like so.

B

They're going to remove this porch here that had been extended out to.

B

The to either side um they're going to be putting in a wood.

B

Column, I believe rounded wood columns here. um Removing some of this.

B

Aluminum siding um and uh yeah trying to shore it up here.

B

uh They're also going to replace all.

B

Windows on the structure with vinyl windows of the same size.

B

Shape pane configuration as the originals, they are replacing.

B

And also a new front door slab as well, so the garden hill design guidelines.

B

State to retain historic character, defining architectural features and.

B

Detailings such as brackets furnaces windows and.

B

Gable and shingles and retain the proportion of all.

B

Original openings, uh replacement of windows and doors.

B

Determined to be original must duplicate the original in size and.

B

Scale regarding the removal of original siding, that is, flexibility, is encouraged.

B

So this is coming from the local design guidelines. I may also mention that they.

B

Would like to remove the aluminum, siding and insole brick siding and they're, going to see what the condition of the clobbered siding is underneath and hope to maintain that, if not they'll.

B

Replace it with um fiber cement board, siding.

B

So the reconstruction of the front porch, you know, based on the illustrations.

B

On the sears catalogs and the removal of the unoriginal signing.

B

Is really a restoration job, um it makes it a more authentic.

B

Aesthetic some of the original windows and the sides of the house, you can see.

B

Here the front porch, the concrete is a giant hole. It really needs.

B

To be fixed, some of the windows and the sides of the house are in really really.

B

Poor shape and staff supports replacement of these.

B

Windows but the windows on the front of the.

B

House, which are character, defining features.

B

Really should be maintained, they're actually in pretty good shape. Staff supports the replacement of the current.

B

Slab with the door slab with a craftsman, style door, slab.

B

So the recommendation is partial approval staff supports the approval of.

B

All project activities, with the exception being the replacement.

B

Of the original windows on the front facade, this is a picture of.

B

The little rear sunroom it's on wood supports here.

B

It looks like so very weak structurally.

B

So that is all staff has great susan. Do you have anything to add.

R

um I don't think so.

R

Yeah we're we're hoping to uncover the original.

R

Lap siding and use that we've been, we were able to see a little bit of it.

R

On the inside of the sunroom um and it it looks to be okay, so we're just gonna.

R

Have to tear it off and see what we've got, but either way we will put back um what was there as close as we can to.

R

What was there if we have to replace it great? Thank you very much so.

A

Let's do a lot of questions chris.

I

Did staff recommend replicating the replacement windows with the six.

I

Over one applied to the glass, as we discussed in.

I

The last windows absolutely without question. Yes,.

R

That is our plan. Chris great, thank you all right. Thank you.

A

Jeff your questions, I don't have any questions.

A

All right dad do you have a question? uh Yes, I do. I have one. uh It's a.

J

Delightful looking house and I'm really glad you're restoring it in.

J

Large part, my one question has to do with the front.

J

Columns right now they appear to be pure brick.

J

Columns and in your picture in your design, it looks like.

J

You're going to take the brick down to about two to.

J

Three feet high and then replace it with more authentic. Looking columns is that.

J

True and what would the columns be made of.

R

Correct um we the way that this house is designed. It doesn't.

R

Quite have as high a pitch on that front gable as the drawing.

R

So we're not, we don't have quite enough room to put in a big.

R

Header up there at the top of those columns and get two or three columns.

R

Like they show in that picture, but we are going to try to replicate.

R

That, as best, we can using a round um probably wood.

R

Column, that's what I have picked out at this moment and.

R

um James, you can speak to that if you'd like, but I've found a wood column.

R

That we can use there and then build a brick um sort of pediment for that to.

R

Sit on so it looks very much like the present picture um and so carrying.

J

On from that, with the brick of your impediment, the is that original.

J

Brick, I'm looking at in the picture of the photograph of the house.

J

Now is it original or is that sort of mid-year? I don't think that's original.

R

um But I don't know.

R

We did not plan to reuse that it all has to be taken off to fix the.

R

Foundation, so um our plan is to.

R

Try to replicate it in color and style, but not.

R

Necessarily use that same brick, okay, thank you very much.

R

Yeah thanks. Thank you.

O

uh Was there any comments from the neighborhood association.

B

uh They told me that they support this project as well.

B

Okay, thank you. That's the only that's the only question I had.

A

Susan nope, no questions sam, no questions.

M

Yes, I I do have a question um in your drawing the proposed drawing it.

M

Shows that the front porch roof pitch is.

M

Steeper than the original is, that is that accurate.

R

I'm sorry say that again, if you look at the photo of your existing house, the.

M

Roof pitch on the front. Porch is much shallower than what you'd draw.

M

Is that your is that what you're gonna do.

M

Raise the slope of the roof or no, we don't plan to change that gable. On the.

R

Front, we just are going to work underneath it.

M

And trying to restore that look, okay, great one more question: the.

M

Underside and the soffit around the house on the sides is that.

M

Going to be right now, it looks like it's aluminum.

R

Yeah, what are you planning to do there james? Can you talk to that? Yes,.

S

Sorry, I'm trying down here um so yeah. I think right now. It's.

S

It's aluminum, but we're talking about either.

S

Going wood or or kind of looking at what you guys wanted.

S

You know what we could be approved to to go back up there with.

A

Suggestions on that there are no, um there are no exposed. Rafter ends on this.

R

House so we would be putting back something.

R

Similar to what's there now, I think, okay, okay, that's all I have thank you.

A

Thank you. Thank you. Gary no questions duncan.

P

uh Can you connor, can you put up the the what they submitted the plan they.

P

Submitted, um I don't have that on my powerpoint.

B

Do you guys have it in your packet? Well, I couldn't download the packet.

P

This afternoon, for some reason, that's that's why I'm asking.

R

um I've yeah, can you find it? I've got a I've, got.

R

A picture of it here, I don't know that it's going to come across very well. If I.

R

Hold it up, but it is.

R

Basically, can you see this at all, it's basically an addition to the back.

R

Of the house that is set in on each side by about two feet.

R

um We will have a back door coming out of one in.

R

One side of it um and then it will, it will have a gable similar to the back.

R

Gable, just right underneath the back gable does.

R

That answer your question. Well, that gives me a visual. Thank you.

P

So do we have, are there, did they propose or submit specifications for the front.

P

Door and the window replacements yeah. She sent me a picture.

B

Of the um here's, can you guys see this drawing.

B

On your screen, what do you see on your screen.

R

Still just seeing the pictures line, number 22.

J

Okay, let me stop share and then do a new share and you'll see.

B

I got the packet pulled up.

B

um So, susan, you did.

B

It's like uh the door slab has, I think, six little panes in the top here.

B

And yeah yeah um it will be a craftsman style door.

R

Kind of a bungalow style door when I drew that photo, I hadn't actually.

R

Picked out the door yet um since then I have, and I wish I could.

R

Pull it up right now and show it to you, but yeah. It has a window in the top and.

R

It's got panes in the top, so that it looks similar to the tops of the windows.

P

And the windows you have drawn there: are they drawn the same the same way as.

P

They really are on the house on the front.

R

They are, um the sides are four over one and.

R

The front is six over one. I believe.

B

Yeah I'll go to it, so we can see it here. It's a four and an.

L

Eight, I see an eight it's more like a 16.

R

I think it's a six. I could have it wrong.

B

Oh goodness, this is a microsoft street view.

R

That's not good here. I've got it on my phone I'll. Look it up right now.

R

Yeah the front windows are six over one.

A

Yes and then, some of the side windows that are smaller are four over one.

R

The ones on the front the side on the right front.

P

Looking at the facade are smaller the wing windows on that.

P

Assembly are smaller than the one in the middle yeah.

L

The ones on the other side, four and ones over.

L

On each side and then an eight over one in the middle on the right side and then.

L

The left side is thrown correctly: okay, yeah.

R

Okay, sorry about that, I didn't realize that I'm not.

P

I'm not trying to just to criticize your drawing.

R

No, no, I appreciate that. I hadn't I hadn't noticed that you're right there.

R

We can see it eight over one and then four over one on the sides: okay right and on the on the um the crescent.

P

They're actually they're actually triplets on each side.

R

Yeah so they had the original windows a little bit different than.

R

The crescent um plane yeah that that's common actually with the kit houses, yeah.

P

But the reason the reason I'm asking about these specifications.

P

P

We don't like to have somebody just say: we're going to put in a craftsman-style.

P

Door, we want people to say we're going to put in door abc. You know. We want to know exactly what the door is. Let me.

R

Let me pull that up for you. Can you hold on just a second I've got it.

P

I'm not, I don't I'm not sure you have to do that right now. Let me tell you.

P

Let me just finish for a second: I sent it to connor connor, I don't know if you.

R

Could pull it up or not, but.

P

The reason for that is so we know that you've done what we.

P

What we allowed you to do, catch it and, and it's just a matter of record keeping.

P

On the one hand, but being able to hold people to the line.

P

When they commit to doing something, if we don't know exactly what the window.

P

Looks like or what the door looks like, then we can't.

P

We can't come back to you and say no, that's not what you said you were going to do so. So I I guess, I'm just suggesting that.

P

You and conor can work that out, but, generally speaking, we want to see.

P

Exactly what what the replication's going to be and.

P

And I I congratulate you for what you're trying to do here, because I this.

P

These kid houses are really important houses and they seem minor, but.

P

They're really not and the more you, the more you can do to return it to its.

P

Original appearance, the happier we'll all be, I agree, I agree.

R

I love them and I want to save them. We just have to have.

P

A plan that we can go back to and say: okay, she did what she said. She was going.

P

To do yeah absolutely so you can work that out with connor. I think, unless anyone else on the committee wants to see those things now I don't. I don't particularly.

A

Thank you. That's all. Thank you right. uh I I don't have any questions at this.

A

Point john, can I ask another question: please.

A

Sure uh so, going off from what duncan was.

J

Pointing out susan uh from your the picture that you have.

J

With the house, as it is now compared to the the uh kit.

J

Drawing uh on the right hand, side as we're looking at it.

J

Your house has the wider one wider window than about a foot.

J

And then the narrow window, the eight over and then the four over.

J

Fairly replicating what the picture the ideal picture is.

J

But in your drawing um you have three similarly paned windows.

J

Side by side, all the same size and no wider space between any of them.

J

Would you be willing to or the other folks on the commission should she.

J

Go back to the more original uh one wide window, like the eight over and a.

J

Space of a foot or so and then the narrower.

J

For over, which is more seems, more typical of the.

J

Original crescent uh plan dave, I think, they're. I think.

A

Encounters recommendations that they retain those windows in the.

J

Therefore, that would retain that right. Okay, thank you.

A

Thank you very much. Okay, uh chris one more question.

I

Could I ask a question yes correct, uh so is there a side light in that new.

I

New door, no because the door's offset it is a side light.

I

Originally chris there's not room on the other side. I really would have liked to.

R

Put a side light in to make that look a little bit more, even in that.

R

In that front uh gable, but there's not room, there's a wall behind there. That's.

R

About eight inches behind the door right so.

I

They never did it, they never did it yeah. Okay, one more question.

I

The over the eaves are covered in aluminum, but.

I

I would expect these to have had exposed rafters.

I

Originally yeah I would have to um we can see on the as you're looking.

R

At the house on the left side there are, the soffit has uh come off.

R

um uh On the side gable- and you can see the rafter ends there.

R

I don't think they were ever exposed james. You can talk to this. We've looked.

R

At it a few times there, the the rafter ends that are up.

R

There are really rotten, um so I don't know that we can.

R

That they ever were exposed, but it doesn't look like it.

R

um James, do you have any comments on that yeah? No, I don't think they ever.

S

Were exposed yeah, I mean what so the area that we see.

S

Anyways is all rotted out on that one side. So.

S

I don't think it ever was when you pull all the aluminum it'll become obvious.

I

Whether or not they were originally exposed, yeah.

I

I'd be surprised if they weren't the house next door to it. Chris is.

R

Similar to this one- and they also don't have rafter ends.

R

Exposed, I don't know if, if it's that those have been covered up.

R

Too, I've been trying to look at the neighborhood and engage whether they're there would have been, but.

R

um I guess we won't know till we get all that pulled out, but it doesn't look like.

R

It I wish I could show them to you, because.

R

You you would know, but well that's okay, you'll know when you.

I

Pull the rest of it off yeah all right. Chris, do you have a comment.

I

No, I I support staff's position of maintaining the front windows and.

I

Replacing the back with appropriate replacement windows.

I

Terrific thank you chris. Yes, comments uh also uh same as chris, I.

E

Support this with retaining the front windows. Thank.

A

You uh jab. Yes, I support it too. Thanks.

A

Thank you lee. I also support it great. Thank you, susan yeah. I support.

K

This one, too, the way staff has recommended it. Thank you.

O

uh Yes, um I support this. I also applaud the restoration and I also agree.

O

That the front windows uh should remain since.

O

They're such a defining element of the house.

M

Yes, I support staff recommendations and I'm so happy to see that you guys are.

M

Tackling this project, it's going to be very nice. Thank you.

A

Thank you, mr gary yeah looks like this was originally.

D

Sort of the discount crescent kit, without all the thrills and frills, but.

D

It's still important and I'm really happy that you're.

D

You're fixing this up, so I support staff. Thank you duncan. You know.

A

Thank you duncan, so I want to really applaud susan for taking this project on.

A

I actually have been in this property um and thought about just running away.

A

You've got a ton of stuff to do there. Yes, we do.

A

Thank you for taking this project on. It is a cool.

R

Thank you, I'm looking forward to one other comment. I just wanted to tell you.

R

All there, the original storms are on the front windows as well, and um so we're going to try to keep.

R

Those too so that's definitely an element. We'd.

R

Like to keep great thank you susan, so we need a.

A

Motion move to approve cla 20-44.

E

With the exception of retaining the front windows, repairing.

E

And keeping them the same uh jeopardy saying, with the exception of.

A

The windows, or are we because what connor was saying.

A

That, whatever connor said, I'm that's the.

E

Motion I'm trying to make okay perfect. Thank you, jeff second,.

A

Great uh dee will you do our uh wrong poll? Please.

C

Yes, sam desaler, yes, susan dyer, yes, jeff golden.

E

Yes, deb hutton: yes, lee san weiss.

C

Lee sandwich.

N

Yes, did that work? Okay, john saunders. Yes,.

C

Chris durban, yes, motion, carries eight zero, zero nice project. Yes,.

A

Thank you very much all right. uh We're gonna move on to demolition.

A

Delay and uh we're gonna start out with.

A

20-17, which is fortunately, four and a half.

A

South walnut street uh connor sure.

B

So first I'd like to welcome uh charlie boxing, his wife joyce.

B

uh For joining us this evening, charlie, is the son of henry.

B

Foxman, who we've been talking about? Thank you john.

B

So uh staff would recommend that this is for the common council for designation.

B

Staff finds that the building is eligible under his sword criteria, 1a.

B

It's associated with a person who played a significant role in local history.

B

That would be henry boxman henry boxman operated.

B

A successful and highly popular restaurant business out of this building.

B

For almost four decades boxman's restaurant received a.

B

Nationwide recognition for their customer service and quality of food.

B

Mr boxman was a pioneering restaurateur during a time the industry was really.

B

Coming into its own, as sit-down dining became accessible.

B

Affordable and popular social activity for working-class americans.

B

He was a leader in both the state and national restaurant associations.

B

And received recognition from both organizations for his life-long service.

B

And leadership mr boxman was even recognized by.

B

President truman for his service to the nation as a food consultant during the.

B

Second, world war boxman put bloomington on the map as a.

B

Destination for good food, a reputation that bloomington still has today boxman spent his life achieving success.

B

In an industry that is highly competitive, uncertain and vulnerable to shifts in social behavior.

B

And perception and we've all kind of washed on helplessly.

B

Some of our favorite eateries have closed down due to the covet pandemic.

B

So we know that restaurants are fleeting, even the best ones.

B

uh Have trouble staying open for more than a couple of decades.

B

As a result, there is a sort of amnesia, a lack of historical recognition.

B

Of these places that they existed even though they're an important and.

B

Enjoyable and a memorable part of people's lives, the designation of this building, because its association with henry.

B

Boxman will be the first of its kind to recognize the social and cultural.

B

Importance of a local building significant because of its association.

B

With food services in bloomington uh staff finds that the building is.

B

Eligible under historic district criteria- 2b, it is the work of a builder whose individual work has significantly influenced the development of a community, and that would be with its associations with mitchell, brothers, stanley and iron.

B

Mitchell, the mitchell brothers built a handful of brick commercial block buildings along south walnut in the 1920s.

B

These buildings crowned proudly with the stamp of their builders.

B

Are part of the architectural fingerprint of the city and form a.

B

Recognizable pattern along the southern portal: the two-story.

B

Section with the m emblazoned on the top represents an era of immense growth and.

B

Prosperity for our city and for our nation, it is.

B

One of the few survivors from that time that embodies in its materials and.

B

Features the architectural legacy of the roaring 20s. For these reasons, staff recommends that the historic preservation commission for the building at 44 south walnut to the.

B

Common council for the recommendation for historic, designation. Okay, thank you all right. So let's do.

A

Questions and we'll start with chris, yes, am I still muted? No, we hear you.

I

Okay, um when do we get to hear the boxman's talk about the building.

I

Right now, do you guys have any comments to say about this.

A

Your thoughts concerns.

T

Well, actually, uh I would feel very grateful if they could.

T

Preserve it in some in some fashion, maybe maybe not a complete restoration.

T

But at least there's something, even not as.

T

The same goes to the.

T

Durability of the two sections of the building.

T

The one story versus the two story: I can see more life ahead for the.

T

Two-Story portion than I I.

T

Rather than wiping the whole thing out, because.

T

T

I did see the inside of the the main restaurant dining room. A few.

T

A few years ago I had the beer snooping around somebody. Was there one afternoon.

T

And this individual at the end it was kind of a gas to what I saw.

T

The whole uh the whole first floor of 422 and 424.

T

We're all one yeah: all the locations have been removed.

T

One six months period, but in the time I graduated from iu.

T

With a uh air force commission in the time I was actually called to do it.

T

I was working full time with that at that time.

T

Most of the other endeavors were just pinch hitting on.

T

Iu football days busy days is very good. Overflowing.

B

Well, if anybody any commissioners have uh questions for mr boxman, you can.

B

Certainly address those questions to him, um and I would also ask that when.

B

We get to the public comment section if you're a member of the public who would like to comment, please use a raise hand feature in zoom, and I will look for that and call on you. That's how we're going.

B

To do public comment, but please stay muted until then thank you.

A

Thank you, um jeff. Do you have any uh questions? I don't have any questions.

A

J

uh For mr boxman, when you were working there, when your.

J

Grandfather owned, it was it uh two separate buildings.

J

From the inside point of view, you either went in one door to the two-story.

J

Building or you went another door to the one-story restaurant and they were attached but separate uh entities.

J

Or were they was there some kind of join between them at all.

T

Well, the operator has a single belly: oh they did. There was passage up front.

T

J

I have a second question for you, sir, uh when you.

J

Were when you were there uh after graduating and uh working a little bit.

J

uh Was it a dinan restaurant by that time, or was it still the curbside.

J

And was that front, what was the front door like.

J

When you were there, uh was it flat door? Did it have the box? This.

J

Is the plywood wood around it or did it have the glass.

J

Block glass around the front door.

T

Well uh yeah, when I was most of my memories, are.

T

Of this uh 1951, like.

T

That that was the most durable 39 to early 50s.

A

Yeah. Thank you very much. Okay,.

N

I don't have any questions.

A

Susan, no, I don't have any questions either.

K

But thank you to the boxers for coming in.

A

Thank you dad. Thank you, susan doug. Do you have any uh questions.

O

I do not thank you dad sam, no questions.

M

No questions but thank you to the box mans for coming.

M

Tonight, thank you. Thank you, yeah. I want to ask if.

D

They ever got to meet colonel sanders. Yes, indeed, in fact,.

T

Sanders helped her take and punch of my sister's wedding.

T

Which is in december of 56 that the last five days of boxing.

A

Is it true, I'm sorry I wasn't done. Can you still hear her hear me.

D

Yeah, so I I just I've heard this, you know the stories passed along when I.

D

Was writing my book etc, but um that you guys were one of the first.

D

Restaurants in indiana to agree to cook colonel sanders chicken uh there at the.

D

T

I'm not certain, I I want to say I doubt it, but I I.

T

Wouldn't rule it out dad dad knew colonel sanders from.

T

The back in the late 30s, um my first exposure to.

T

Carol sanders was at his restaurant. I think it was gas pumps adjacent the.

T

L-Shaped motel sanders court. This is a 1940 on a.

T

Family vacation ship to smoky mountains.

T

And we were there again: 46 head of the same destination.

D

Awesome well, it's just nice to know the stories I heard about.

D

The connections to and the friendship between.

D

uh Your father and colonel sanders was indeed.

D

Fact, thank you. Thank you. Darry, hey duncan any questions.

A

A

Chris is there a present? Is there a presentation by the.

I

B

um He's certainly welcome to present during the uh at any time um whenever john feels that's appropriate.

A

Okay, uh josh: do you have anything you want to.

A

Add to this um yeah: hey guys, we're on here and and just kind of.

U

uh More of a continuation from where we left off last week.

U

I know that there was some speculation as to whether or not.

U

The building was a mitchell building or not, but I mean given.

U

The light that uh mr boxman, here, the grandson said that.

U

You know they made the effort to come here. I mean we would name the new.

U

Building the boxman um we'd be more than happy to uh put up.

U

A plaque and reference all the stuff that connor just read um our we would do our best to repurpose.

U

The limestone and as much of the brick on the front facade.

U

In the new building, as we possibly could.

U

The new front would be of a brown nature, a brown color tone.

U

All that is is no issues on our part, um the our main, our main driving force as.

U

Far, as you know, the petition that we had is the building the building is beyond repair and so.

U

It's not that you know we we want to just tear down as.

U

Many buildings, as we can that's, that's not the nature here. It's just.

U

This building is beyond salvage. We've got three separate.

U

Contractors, um one of the contractors guys actually redid the von maur theater.

U

He was able to save that building, but he said this one is beyond repair.

U

And so these are the opinions of the experts that we rely on to make.

A

J

He's gone on you sorry. I actually needed you josh you're, on.

A

You still there josh yeah, I'm here I don't know or.

U

I got muted and so uh does anyone know where I left off or.

U

What I was saying.

J

Where the contractors, your contractors and your advisors have.

J

Declared it unsalvageable the building. Thank you. Thank you. Deb.

U

But uh and and one of those contractors actually redid the von maur theater and.

U

So um they've been down this road before.

U

And so those are the experts, and so that's why we chose the direction that.

U

A

Thank you josh. So, let's move on down to jeff.

U

Can you repeat that sir thank you josh, I'm asking if jeff golden has any.

A

uh Comments was chris done yet with his comments.

E

I thought he was he's, I'm asking him to unmute, okay, unmuted.

A

Yeah, just here additional cameras are we in comments.

A

Yeah, okay, well, buildings travel through time.

I

By being forever repaired, they're not magic, they don't stay.

I

Perfect but they get restored and they get.

I

Repaired and they get put back to life and.

I

I have suggested a couple of options of preserving the facade and I haven't.

I

Heard a response that that reflected that they were interested.

I

In or willing to do that and I'm going to have to vote to support staff's recommendation to send this to council, it's a good.

I

Building with history, it can be, nothing cannot be resp.

I

Repaired and that's going to be my position.

U

Chris, I'm not sure if you misunderstood what I said, I mean our goal.

U

Is to repurpose as much of this stuff on the front.

U

As we can, and so, uh but it was the way I understood the attorney.

U

Last time it was kind of an all or nothing.

I

um Are we to have dialogue, connor or no okay? Thank you and josh. If you.

A

Kind of hold your comments after we get down to the.

A

Comments and commissioners at this point no problem thanks, josh appreciate it all.

A

Right uh jeff and you're coming yeah, so I have.

E

Several comments, um one I I reviewed all of the public.

E

Response um and as conor well noted in the email to us.

E

That was about two to one in favor of releasing this permit um a lot of the.

E

The ones that were for saving it were about the players pub.

E

And this is kind of an emotional response to a place where they had a.

E

Really good time, but saving this building would not bring.

E

Back the players pub as far as the boxman's and the.

E

Restaurant, um I I think that they should be honored in.

E

Some way, I I totally agree, what's left of that.

E

Building doesn't um doesn't pay any homage to.

E

What the boxmans did there's nothing really left of.

E

Other than the brick on the front that pays homage to what happened there.

E

Before I think, there's another way to honor the boxmans, which I think they.

E

Should be um the whole kfc.

E

Connection, I don't give any credit to that. That's a corporate.

E

Symbol um that was used to sell crappy food.

E

um And then, as far as the location, this is a difficult location which.

E

um There are several other buildings. um Well, there's two I can think of within.

E

Within half a block that are in worse shape than the.

E

Player's pub uh we have a homeless issue uh at the park.

E

A block away and uh this building is in disrepair and.

E

I think this is the time to revitalize this.

E

Part of downtown, which has uh which needs it.

E

And then there are some of the comments addressed the environmental issue.

E

uh That uh replacing this uh building would.

E

Be a problem you know putting this in the landfill.

E

Any kind of rehab of this building most of the structure.

E

Is going to have to be removed and put in a landfill anyway,.

E

um The only thing that's at least from my perspective- that's.

E

Left at all is the facade and the facade has changed.

E

Greatly so I'm going to support releasing this permit.

A

Thank you, jeff uh deb. Yes, um I read. I too read all the.

J

Comments um thoughtful on both parts.

J

For and against my demolition, um I do think, though, that a lot of people.

J

Say it looks awful and it's decrepit. I think the whole point of restoration is.

J

That it becomes viable whether we see the city hall.

J

John's creamery or any of the other courthouse they.

J

Become viable they become vibrant. They become secure and safe.

J

If those buildings are restored so just because it's.

J

A disaster right now in terms of structure doesn't mean that if it was.

J

Restored it would would continue to be.

J

I do look at josh's plan, although we're not supposed to planning his planning is.

J

His own business, we can't make um a vote based on his plan, but I do see.

J

The two two-story and one-story sort of front.

J

Facade silhouette of these two buildings on his.

J

Plan and I give josh lots of credit for that.

J

um On the other hand, uh we've seen so many restaurants.

J

uh Leave town and I um honor conference saying this would be.

J

The first food service building restored or saved or put into.

J

Historic designation, if it would make it that far.

J

And even though legally we cannot say apparently that well save the front.

J

Facade and then put up your four-story building behind it, which is what, of course, I would like to do.

J

um uh I do see the history of the boxman's.

J

And the restaurant business in this town and there's so many restaurants. We have.

J

Lost um and the restaurants sort of echoing.

J

Jeff's comments: are they too are commercial not as bad as as.

J

Or as as nationally commercial as colonel sanders, but nonetheless uh restaurants are someone's business.

J

And they come and go so looking at the buildings, I am uh for.

J

Now most likely to vote to have this.

J

uh To present it to the common council for.

J

Local designation, if they would see fit. Thank you. Deb um lee.

N

I too have read all of the commentary and all of the.

N

Additional materials- and I agree with deb.

A

All right, thank you. um Susan.

K

So I was on the fence before, because this building is in such.

K

Bad shape um once you get to the inside, but I really do like uh the historic.

K

Nature of our downtown- and I think you know the comments that.

K

Talk about preserving it, I'm I I'm in agreement. So at this point I'm.

K

Thinking I'm gonna support um moving it on to the common council.

K

For designation, thank you, susan um done.

O

Can't you hear me yeah, okay, sorry we're entering st louis and I'm.

O

Looking at the arch right now, um so I.

O

I'm gonna agree with and fight with jeff on this one.

O

um And I've had two things that I've thought about, and I've also.

O

Spent some time in this building as players pub, but also.

O

For various clients that I've looked at the building and the structure.

O

Specifically of the one-story portion, um I I the main thing that I've looked.

O

At is that, if anything, all of the pictures that we've seen of this building of.

O

That's been in every presentation that we've had have shown that.

O

This building has changed so much over time that.

O

I'm not sure what point in time we're looking at now is as historic as.

O

Some of the other lovely pictures specifically when the boxmans had this.

O

Building and their restaurant, I like.

O

Some of the things that the petitioner is going to do as far as the plaque.

O

And trying to repurpose as much as he can.

O

Part of me that has really struggled with this is I'm not so sure that.

O

The council would find enough here to move towards designation.

O

um I'm still not in agreement that this is a mitchell building.

O

You know there's so much that has changed with brick and no brick.

O

And glass and all of the things on the building that.

O

That I would want to see or that we have seen in some of the other mitchell.

O

Buildings and then finally, my final comment is: is.

O

That you know I'm still looking at this.

O

Thinking is this building, as it sits right now,.

O

More historic than the chocolate mousse structure.

O

Again, another restaurant along the same block that.

O

We allowed to be uh removed um because I still think it held more.

O

More promise for designation than what we're looking at now.

O

So with that, I'm going to uh vote for releasing.

O

The permit, thank you. Thank you. Doug uh sam.

L

You know I I, as my other commissioners, did.

L

I've read through all the comments it's contentious.

L

uh Issue there's you know, but but it's it was interesting to me that I to.

L

Hear what the boxmans had to say, they're, you know.

L

They're, like wow the low one, doesn't have much.

L

Life left in it, um and also I want to echo some of the things that my other.

L

Commissioners, my fellow commissioners who said the.

L

The building uh the one story building has changed.

L

Significantly over uh the course of its life and.

L

What are we? What at what point are we saying this is the historic.

L

Building um one other issue: I'd like to bring up.

L

Is uh I always like to think about who you know what what the neighborhood.

L

Thinks about this building I mean this is a community resource, but.

L

Every uh every neighbor, every business owner.

L

In the neighborhood wants to tear this thing down,.

L

Our our downtown, our historic downtown, it's beautiful we've got this great.

L

Square we've got a you know, a courthouse with.

L

Surrounded by a solid wall of two-story buildings, all the way around.

L

That's amazing: you come down to this uh part of the development corridor.

L

And it's there's very little context left. There's parking lots.

L

There's uh some horrible buildings from the 80s there's one or two other buildings down the street of the same era: matt.

L

Murphy's building is a nice exception in terms of condition.

L

But I was one of the commissioners who walked through this building when the.

L

Petitioner was kind enough to invite us to go.

L

And it's disaster in there the facade is really the only portion of.

L

The building that is salvageable and uh you know if there was an option.

L

To salvage the facade alone, I'd say: yeah grow for that, but there is not um and.

L

Regardless of what they put up after that's, not our purview, does the uh saving of this building.

L

Work for the greater good of the community of bloomington or.

L

Does tearing it down and having something new.

L

That matches the scale of what the new udo.

L

uh And the surrounding context, uh having letting the petitioner do that.

L

Is that better- and I think that's the question or at.

L

Least one of the questions I'm thinking about as uh as we go forward, so I am likely to uh support demolition on this one.

A

um Sam, it is, it is my understanding that if we.

A

Were to send this to colin kansas and if it would be a.

A

Designated story, then we would have the opportunity.

A

At the commission level to uh to maybe save the facade and let stuff.

A

Go behind it, but I would have to go to common council.

A

First, am I right on that yeah, okay,.

A

And I also want to point out that the windows.

A

On the structure on the side, doors are still very much.

A

To the original texture of that building, um let's move on.

A

Do you have any comments? Yeah? I have some comments. I did.

M

Read the letters that were submitted to the commission.

M

Yes, some of them are against. Some of them are for it.

M

And you have to say that there's a lot here to talk about and to.

M

Save this building both of the both of the buildings.

M

Has as much of some people say that is in bad shape,.

M

That's what restoration is all about? There is something there.

M

To be saved and not only has a building, but let's not forget about the context.

M

Of where this building is, this is part of downtown bloomington.

M

If we're going to continue the demo in buildings,.

M

Of this character of this value, I don't know, what's going to happen next.

M

I just think if it is worth saving there is a lot.

M

To be done, yes, but I think is this is one of those buildings that needs to be.

M

Saved there is no question about it. In my mind,.

M

I don't think there is nostalgia about it. I think this is about.

M

Saving a structure that deserves to be restored.

M

Yes, the the roof is sagging sure. How old is that.

M

Roof, when was the last time it was, you know, restored.

M

I think this is such a great building. Just you know, the windows are still.

M

There, those are the original windows so anyway, I just want to say that I.

M

Agree with some of my fellow commissioners here and.

M

I would like for this building to be saved.

M

Both of them, of course, thank you.

A

uh Duncan yep, you skipped me, sir gary I was gonna, get back to you.

D

Okay, I just didn't want you to leave me behind.

D

D

Oh, should I go then? Yes, okay, so um I want to thank josh first because.

D

The owner took me last wednesday. I think it was.

D

Through the two buildings or through and around the buildings.

D

And uh yeah there's no doubt that the inside of the players pub in particular.

D

Is in it's in bad shape, there's no doubt about it. However, um let's start with context, it is a.

D

Contributing structure number one, and why is it.

D

Contributing because most of the west side side of south walnut, starting at the alco building,.

D

And heading south, are you know they they fit the context? Some people don't think.

D

So I think yeah they're, roughly some 10 or.

D

20 years between some of them, but it's it's it. This building provides.

D

Some history and some context for that. What remains.

D

Of the west side, because we know the east side's long gone.

D

As far as you know, it being in bad shape, yeah buildings.

D

Change over time and if they're not perfectly up kept but.

D

They're gonna they're gonna have issues and.

D

I do think that this building is not comparable.

D

To the chocolate moose in the sense that this is.

D

The chocolate mousse was just a tiny little. You know.

D

A tiny structure that, without the chocolates moose.

D

What is it, it's basically a shack. Well, this is an actual structure or building.

D

And I think it it provides that part of the street.

D

Some context, so I agree with john that we send this on to the city council.

D

To be designated, and in that way we can work with josh.

D

On coming up with something um using a certificate of appropriateness,.

D

Or whatever we have or whatever we we end up, you know just uh deciding.

D

uh Together that you know we can save this, the facades of either buildings or.

D

Both buildings, but if we do that and we send it and.

D

It's designated we'll have that opportunity and that way allow josh to move forward with this project.

D

So I recommend we, we send this to the city council.

A

Thank you very much, terry jenny. I'm sorry! I did not see you come in.

A

So please uh give us your comments, um yeah. I would also support.

V

Designating the building um those are the original windows. I can.

V

See on the two-story somebody's replaced them uh recently, but I can remember recently that they were.

V

Actually, the old ones too, um the protuberances on the front. That's.

V

Removable, the original facade is still back there.

V

That you see in the modern pictures- and you know.

V

Obviously, brick would be what we would be saving with the brick and limestone.

V

uh Original structures um I realize the back of the building is.

V

In bad shape- and uh I also would be so lenient and generous and.

V

Do something to satisfy our practitioner about building something behind the.

V

Facades, I would like the facades kept it's it's quite.

V

It's very appropriate for that street. It's.

V

Appropriate for bloomington it has a lot of history. I like the idea of a plaque.

V

uh It's going to be commercial on the bottom anyway, it already looks.

V

Commercial, um so you know, and basically his design.

V

Already had that on the bottom, I guess because this building was here and he was trying to make a nod for it, but the petitioner did a. I would like to see the real.

V

Structured front kept instead of just a nod to it by saving some of the brick.

V

And limestone okay, that was it. Thank you very much.

A

Thank you, jeremy appreciate that duncan yeah. I read the.

P

uh The letters also and and the the thing that I noticed the.

P

Most about them um was that all the people who seemed to.

P

Support the demolition there were very few of the people who.

P

Supported demolition, who said one word about the historic significance.

P

Of the building, most all of the people who supported designation talked almost exclusively.

P

About the history of the building.

P

The two criteria that conor has listed are two of several that we are allowed.

P

To look at when we consider these kinds of projects.

P

And that's kind of all we're allowed to look at.

P

um So, to advocate for demolition seems to be to say.

P

There isn't any history here and I just don't agree with that.

P

um What makes it so difficult, I think, is the building condition.

P

For everyone, um the petitioner, as well as.

P

Many of us and.

P

As you all know, I've I've worked on several.

P

Projects in bloomington and elsewhere with buildings that are in such bad.

P

Condition that everybody thought they should be torn down, including the owner and uh and the contractor.

P

But because of incentives that historic preservation offered.

P

Those people were persuaded to save the buildings and we're talking about the.

P

Von lee theater and the johnson creamery and the showers building, which took.

P

Almost 10 years to accomplish.

P

And in that period of time on those buildings.

P

Public opinion was significantly swayed as progress was made toward their.

P

Restoration- um and I I have to say it was.

P

Significantly, with the possible exception of the von lee, it was significantly against saving those buildings, particularly from.

P

The development community in the real estate community.

P

And I think they were wrong with those buildings and I think they're wrong.

P

On this building and if you want to stay in the conversation with.

P

With josh who who sounds to me, I haven't met you josh, but you sound like somebody.

P

Who's earnest and coming forward, quite honestly, with your.

P

Project- and I I appreciate that, but if we want to stay in the conversation to.

P

See what happens here? The only choice we really have is to.

P

Forward it to counsel for designation, make the arguments there. They may decide.

P

To do it, they may not, but if you want to continue on a.

P

Conversation with josh about ways to save the facade, as some of you have said,.

P

You would like to do or ways to save uh some monikers of significance, which.

P

Almost all of you have said you would like to find a way to do.

P

Then I'd like to stay in the conversation through the process.

P

And if you don't and you allow demolition.

P

Nobody's going to ask you anything again about what happens here.

P

And that's the choice you have and your job. You know our job.

P

Is to is to look at the history, determine if we think it's significant.

P

Enough to tell a story about bloomington that we think that needs to be preserved.

P

And to stand up for the buildings that represent that history.

P

That's our job, that's all it is, it doesn't have anything to do with apartment buildings or what's going on anywhere else,.

P

You, you know it's unfair in a way that we have to isolate that responsibility.

P

From all the other realities that we understand to be real, but that's our job.

P

That's what we're supposed to do, and it's the case up to the council if they think we're doing it right or not, and I want.

P

To stay in the conversation, so I I would recommend sending it to council.

P

For designation, thank you duncan very much. um I I.

A

Have to agree with some of my fellow commissioners.

A

I think retaining the streetscape is very important.

A

And and to lose these buildings, it would trap dramatically change that area.

A

And so that that's my common sense, so we'll move to other comments and.

A

uh Who are we gonna start with, so uh how I'm going to do public comment? Is people.

B

Have their hand raised I'm going to call them and ask them to.

B

Unmute, uh I believe the first person to raise their hand was mark figg. So your.

B

Time is is now thank you. Can you hear me? Okay,.

W

Great good evening, everyone, um I just uh you know just in terms of you know.

W

Context I've been working in this district since the 70s.

W

My grandfather ran the employment security office right across the street.

W

Which is now the big red apartments and the imechanic.

W

My parents had a business at 409 south walnut, which is now bedrock cafe, so I've.

W

Been spending time in that area for a long long time um you know first and foremost, uh I.

W

I have frequented all the establishments there since the late 70s, so.

W

I've been in the building a lot, you know as a as a person in.

W

Real estate development and economic development through bedc.

W

You know I really, first and foremost care more about humans than buildings.

W

And I want to see this property be more dense.

W

In whatever way, it needs to get done historically or otherwise,.

W

We do not have enough housing in our community, our.

W

Rents and uh prices for housing are going up at two fast eclipse, so.

W

You know I come from that first and then. Secondly, I do believe this.

W

Building, I I recognize its historical.

W

Significance, I know what's going on there and I believe that.

W

Making this building be more intensively used for the betterment of the community.

W

Is better for everybody in the long run? I I like josh's ideas that I've heard.

W

Tonight about changing things or or paying homage to.

W

The past, which is fine in addition to some of those facade.

W

Comments from others, I've never done a project that way.

W

Personally, but I I'd be interested to hear how that could be done. um So that's a challenge to josh if he has.

W

The opportunity to develop this, so you know again, you know.

W

I think buildings are buildings, people are people and I think we can better our.

W

People and I don't believe that this building.

W

Is that significant, in my opinion, spending a big chunk of my.

W

Lifetime there, so thank you for your time.

B

Thank you mark um next, uh mr price.

X

Hello, can you hear me okay, yep hi good evening.

X

um I wanted to call I wanted to call in tonight.

X

I've been watching this a bit from afar and.

X

For about the past month or two and I'm curious.

X

About the petitioning that went on and what the true metrics that were used in.

X

Order to gather that information um to provide.

X

This committee, with empirical data, what I've heard a lot tonight, is a lot of.

X

Emotion and- and I understand when it comes to historical sites, that there is emotion when it comes to.

X

People who have visited the facility, but I've also read.

X

Three of the documents that were provided in this presentation.

X

That said that this these built, this building is untenable.

X

In order to refurbish- um and um I I do like the ideas of of the.

X

The facade and saving some of the um integrity of the player's pub and that.

X

Front large capital m to pay homage.

X

But I'm just curious if I think it was.

X

Jeff g, who said that the petitions were at a click of two to.

X

One in terms of two being for the demolition uh to bring in.

X

Future commerce and um a more dense building.

X

To one to take it to council, and I'm just wondering at what point does does.

X

The community really have you really taken into account what the community.

X

Would like to see um and then what do you think about a.

X

Two to one um spread, I think, that's, I think, that's.

X

Pretty definitive, um but I also don't know what you use for.

X

Metrics, what your cross reference is how what what was the amount of people.

X

That were petitioned and on and on I'm just I just wanted to kind of just.

X

At the end of the day, is that even a consideration.

X

And that's all I have, and I wish everyone well thank you.

B

uh Elena chambers.

Y

Hey, can you hear me? Yes, all right, so um my perspective is a little bit.

Y

Different because I am a descendant of the mitchell family.

Y

um Stanley and ira are my two times great uncles and I just wanted.

Y

To give a little bit of of that mitchell perspective for those of you that um are not aware of the family history in.

Y

Monroe county, um their father isaac, who would be my.

Y

Two times great grandfather is civil war veteran. He was in the 24th.

Y

Regiment company, a for indiana and when he got out of the civil war.

Y

Moved fr, he was born in lawrence county moved to monroe county. He and his wife.

Y

Had 11 children 10 of those were boys and one daughter.

Y

And so the mitchell brothers are the sons of that family.

Y

Isaac was also a county commissioner during 1906 and 1907 at least it may.

Y

Have gone on another year or two, but he was um on the county commission.

Y

When the proposal was made and then accepted.

Y

To build the courthouse, which is on the square right now, so you know: we've got some long-standing history of community.

Y

Service and involvement, the family farm is no longer here.

Y

But it was located if, um on the south side,.

Y

Kind of where henderson and walnut street pike all converge in that area.

Y

That's where the family farm used to be and where um those boys would have been.

Y

Raised- and I think the biggest thing for me is.

Y

Just given the I'm sorry, I'm in the parking lot at.

Y

South, so I apologize for um the sirens going up.

Y

The mitchell family had such a heart and soul for community service, and I.

Y

Would just like to see, um I guess I'm.

Y

And with some others that I've heard on the commission already talking about at.

Y

Least, keeping the facade as a nod to the history of our town and.

Y

Where we came from so thank you for your consideration.

B

Wonderful, I appreciate your comments, elena uh jan sorby,.

Z

Hi um I have, I have several things to say.

Z

um I think that there's no question that this should be saved.

Z

um There are not very many commercial buildings of of this error.

Z

That are still existing um to the discussion of.

Z

um Of the idea of density and more dense buildings and.

Z

Whatnot along this corridor, um there are two blocks just south of.

Z

This that contain six.

Z

Either service parking lots or used car lots.

Z

There are lots and lots of places for more density to go.

Z

And the context of the street is incredibly important.

Z

uh To the north, on the west side of the street.

Z

There are really some other super buildings from this era.

Z

And together, I think that they would make just an outstanding.

Z

um District and yeah I live, I I live in the south.

Z

End of town, so this is kind of my neighborhood.

Z

And um to talk about uh uh places that are good for.

Z

For upcoming businesses, new businesses, uh this would make an ideal place. This.

Z

Is the kind of places that new restaurants want to go to? It's.

Z

The kind of businesses that a lot of our younger people are.

Z

Starting, so what if we got rid of the frosted.

Z

Fruit foods, a building before or the johnson.

Z

Creamery or the encore building, if you got rid of you, know how many of.

Z

Those would you need to get rid of before that area would not be what it is today, which is a wonderful place.

Z

Lots of young people are starting businesses. There.

Z

And a lot of development in the larger um student developments.

Z

The develop the developers come back and they say you know we just can't get.

Z

Anybody to to fill those spots, a commercial nobody.

Z

Wants to be in those commercial spaces, and that is true. It's absolutely.

Z

True but the old encore building where blooming foods is or the ifill building, and particularly.

Z

Frosted foods I mean it's always full people always.

Z

Want to be there, they have no problem renting spaces like.

Z

That out what! If, what? If the shower's building.

Z

Everybody had said, oh that's, too expensive to fix or.

Z

Fountain square: this is what restoration is sure the floor.

Z

System is problematic. They had no guidelines in for fuller systems.

Z

Sure it needs a new roof sure it needs tuck, pointing all those things are part.

Z

Of it, um the essence of the building is still.

Z

There it's always been there and all the photos.

Z

And I just want to say: don't orphan the other good buildings that are there.

Z

Don't orphan the context? Yes, this is an area.

Z

That needs to be saved and needs to be helped. It's really.

Z

At risk and the best way to help this area.

Z

Is investment in rehab? I just want to say one other thing.

Z

Really, when I heard people talking what not.

Z

Something that came to my mind is what jane jacobs said.

Z

She said old ideas can sometimes use new buildings.

Z

New ideas must use old buildings. Old buildings are crucial to thriving.

Z

Cities and I think that that sort of sums up.

Z

Why we need to keep these buildings that are right? There.

Z

Along south walnut we've we've demolished all of them to our northern.

Z

Gateway can't we please save the ones.

Z

To our southern gateway to our city, it speaks of what it is, what our city.

Z

Has been, and we can learn from it for future.

Z

Generations so please say please, that's all I have.

Z

To say, thank you.

B

Next, we have danielle.

AA

Hi folks um hi um it's hard to follow duncan.

AA

Campbell and jan sorby on comments, um because they.

AA

Both said so much of what I would also say.

AA

I would like to also in following a giant what jan said.

AA

um This is my kind of my neighborhood too.

AA

uh It's it's more of a scale that is comfortable to those of us who.

AA

Live in the neighborhoods that are within walking distance.

AA

um Someone who drives uh south walnut south college frequently.

AA

It's important to have these human scale buildings.

AA

In our vicinity.

AA

And I will also just follow what duncan said.

AA

To the commissioners, as someone who served on.

AA

The bloomington historic preservation commission is that.

AA

um If you want to even explore the idea of saving the facades.

AA

Then you need to go to the next step so that you can have that discussion.

AA

um It is, it is an opportunity to come to some kind of middle ground.

AA

So I'd like to encourage you to go towards designation recommendation.

AA

Just so you can at least have those conversations, and I I cannot.

AA

Help I know I submitted comments to all of.

AA

You because I was not sure I would be able to be on this zoom meeting tonight. I also submitted.

AA

History on the mitchell, construction um with bill, coulter's.

AA

Assistance megan at the history center, um but I have to say that you know I.

AA

Remember visiting this building with nancy houston uh to examine it prior to the to the owner. At that time,.

AA

Potentially receiving a facade grant- and I remember how excited.

AA

We all were to discover that, yes, the original windows were there. Yes, the.

AA

Sign was behind the faux mansard roof.

AA

um Yes, the original fenestration was intact.

AA

Even that glass block entrance is original to the period it was installed.

AA

And if I recall correctly, the player's pub sign is.

AA

Just placed over the boxmen sign that was part of the the stipulation to not.

AA

Ruin the original sign. um In essence, it is, the facade, is original.

AA

um And as so many have said, you know I I've seen a photograph of a pile of what.

AA

Look like sticks restored into the most beautiful home.

AA

We have as duncan and others jan and others have said.

AA

You know this one reminds me of of the the mitchell section reminds me of.

AA

um 112 east 3rd street, that was a mess and the hpc.

AA

Wrangled over it and it's now a wonderfully contributing.

AA

Building with new buildings around it, yes.

AA

But it's still part of our um city and, like others, have said, the home.

AA

Laundry building the coca-cola building, the frosted foods building.

AA

The building that's currently blooming foods, johnson's creamery showers,.

AA

Small wood pike of the courthouse- you know all these buildings were.

AA

Considered a dump, they were considered awful. They were.

AA

They were not worth saving and yet they were and and there's so many others.

AA

But what would we be if we had didn't have these buildings now so.

AA

I would like to encourage the hpc to vote.

AA

To at least move this to the next level so that further.

AA

Discussions can take place. Thank you. Thank you all right. uh Next, we have.

B

B

Beth, if you're there, your time to comment, is now.

B

All right next, we have uh harry chance.

AB

Good evening, I appreciate you guys allowing me to.

AB

uh Sit in and listen, um I grew up in bloomington. I do live in.

AB

San antonio texas now, and maybe it give you all a different.

AB

Perspective of someone who comes in at least four times a year.

AB

And sees his town that he grew up in the 60s and 70s.

AB

uh Totally different, especially when you all change streets to one ways and I'm.

AB

Going the wrong way, because it's out of habit.

AB

Learn quick though, but I used to actually in high school. I worked at that.

AB

Marathon station right on the corner- and I can tell you that.

AB

Bloomington has grown up and there's been some great things done for it, but.

AB

In this area here, you've got a lot of homeless people less than two blocks.

AB

Away you compare this building to the.

AB

Chocolate moose, which basically set in the middle of a parking lot and.

AB

Was basically a shed, even though it still had you know some.

AB

Great memories, josh, I would tell you, I think, what you.

AB

Want to try to do makes some sense, but I think the front.

AB

End of this building and most of this building has to be much.

AB

More of a bigger part of it, and I think, for the community to be able.

AB

To have that input and to be able to help you understand.

AB

That I think you guys need to push it to the committee that way, I think you're.

AB

Still going to be able to accomplish something, and I think it would be better for it, but the nostalgia of bloomington.

AB

Is still there and I think the bloomington still wants to be able to.

AB

Have some input on it? So I wish you all luck.

AB

Just know that when I come home this is home, bloomington's home.

AB

And I appreciate the opportunity to be able to sit in and.

AB

Listen to y'all talk um restoration of that front part.

AB

And probably part of what's inside, I still think something in the back. Could.

AB

Be able to be built up and be able to generate more income and uh opportunity for blue newton, so.

AB

Thank you very much for allowing me to participate.

B

Very welcome. Thank you. Harry uh cp.

AC

Hi hi, can you hear me just to be real quick? I believe that.

AC

That location is what two blocks from homeless central and if it was any other.

AC

Location, I can see the points of saving it, but it needs to be revitalized. This town needs to be.

AC

It needs to keep going the direction we're going. We have a shortage of.

AC

Of uh precious real estate they're not building anymore, so.

AC

I think we should take the bad part of town which that is certainly becoming. I.

AC

Don't feel safe, walking there at night and making it a nice part of town. That's.

AC

Really all I have to say thank you, steve.

AD

Yes, can you hear me yes great? uh I just wanted to say that these.

AD

Buildings are not ordinary. Typically, when you designate a property.

AD

uh Or you recommend designation to the city council, it's because of its.

AD

Architecture- in this case the architectural argument's there, but there's an extraordinary argument for the.

AD

Biographical criterion here and uh it's it's very unusual- you have this.

AD

Strong of a story, a strong: this is strong of a of a.

AD

Historical meeting for a building, uh so I think that that makes this one.

AD

Unusual when it comes to designations and another thing I think, to keep in.

AD

Mind is that it's relation to the other.

AD

Mitchell buildings in the community and there's going to be development.

AD

Pressure to tear down other ones too, there's houses on walnut street.

AD

And other commercial buildings that were related to the family.

AD

And uh if uh this one goes, I think you're probably going to see people come.

AD

Forward to uh propose demolitions of other ones too, so.

AD

If we care about these, uh these wire, brick and limestone and.

AD

Tapestry brick, buildings that were the family built in in the 20s, then uh now's the time to start.

AD

Sending them to the city council. Thank you.

A

Thank you, steve.

B

All right, this will be our last public comment. uh Josh.

U

Yeah is it okay for me to talk.

A

Yeah josh, okay, um and just so everyone knows and I'm not.

U

Sure, where some of the people who actually um took the time actually uh out of their day to comment tonight, so thank.

U

You everyone that did, um but but we owned actually mitchell.

U

Buildings already and we took the time to to restore those, and so they look the.

U

Way they do because we care about the buildings and the integrity of them and.

U

So, like I've said before, like our our.

U

Thought process here we didn't get here lightly. I mean.

U

But the fact of the matter is guys like, like I'm, I'm not a developer. This is my.

U

First, go around at this: I'm not bill cook. I don't have any supplies of money.

U

We've had conversations with the three contractors that we.

U

Have reached out to potentially do this project.

U

Saving the initial facade is is not economically feasible.

U

You know it's it's always easier to talk about spending money when it's not yours,.

U

And so that's that's the situation, we're in.

U

And so that's why we're here and so I I respect everyone's comments, but.

U

Again, especially with the cost of goods right now with the pandemic, you know a two by fours went up 60 here in the.

U

Past month the sheet of plywoods went up. You know almost 100, actually over 100.

U

And so doing, the things that you guys are talking about is is easy. When it's not your money, like I said, I'm not bill cook, I've got a day job.

U

And so I just take that into consideration. I mean.

U

Because what you guys are talking about is pricing. This.

U

Way, it's not going to happen, so this is tim ellis man make a comment.

A

Hang on tim, I will let josh's tv show and I have one more. I love you too.

B

All right uh before jim, we have jared ray just raise his hand, jared.

AE

Yeah, I just think that the uh it's just it's such an eyesore to drive down.

AE

Through there and to see that building and the condition that it's in, I think.

AE

It's time to let it go. I mean, like kind of like what mr price was.

AE

Saying there's a bunch of emotion here and it it's not really.

AE

That's not what it's about it's about. What do we do to to make bloomington.

AE

Look great again, and what do we do to to help bring some more money in and.

AE

You know, I think it's something that just needs to go. It's it's had its.

AE

Purpose, it's going to be way too expensive to repurpose it tear it down. Let's get rid of it.

A

Thank you jared tim. Yes, go ahead. Can you hear me.

A

Yes, jim, I got the floor.

AF

If you can hear me I'll make a comment about the building.

AC

Please go ahead.

Z

They hear you, they hear you yeah. This is tim ellis and.

AF

I own property, along with my wife, dorothy.

AF

Behind and next to this building and we've had those properties for.

AF

Nearly 50 years.

AF

And I'm quite familiar with the players cub, because.

AF

I remember it as boxman's, I don't believe boxing's ever owned. The building.

AF

They were tenants there, they did own the house next door, which now is uh under our ownership.

AF

The building itself, I believe, is not a mitchell building, it doesn't have any.

AF

Of the characteristics of the mitchell buildings.

AF

The m uh in the brick has been there part of the time part of the time, not.

AF

But if you look at the old pictures of that building, you'll see that it's had a.

AF

Variety of uses over the years, my father, joe ellis in 1967 rented the.

AF

Building the owner lived in uh bloomfield.

AF

And he opened a bar there. My dad did and operated the bar till his money was gone.

AF

And then closed up the the bar.

AF

But if you look at the different pictures, you see the different designs.

AF

On the front, I don't think the building today has any.

AF

Historical significance, the two stone houses that were the adams.

AF

Brothers, homes that are cater corner to this property to the back. They were.

AF

Built in 1894, and certainly they have a lot of historical significance.

AF

And that's why, when I first bought those houses.

AF

And had an opportunity to sell them to a drugstore.

AF

And there was no historical, there were no.

AF

Restrictions at that time, I couldn't even consider tearing those beautiful.

AF

Buildings down, but this building has had different.

AF

Changes in different designs and different uses.

AF

It's not a beautiful building, it doesn't have.

AF

Historical significance: it's not a mitchell building.

AF

And I believe, tearing the building down and reusing that property into something.

AF

New is a positive endeavor, so I would.

AF

Partially support the petitioner's request to demo this.

AF

Building. Thank you. Thank you. Tim.

A

All right, we'll do even more public health.

B

One last chance.

F

Okay, thank you. I was having technical difficulties earlier.

G

No, I was just going to kind of bounce off what mr ellis was saying that.

G

This you know, I, I love our little downtown area, the entire.

G

Square has been restored and all the buildings look great.

G

And for the most part they're occupied, there are some.

G

You know commercial spaces that are having trouble right now.

G

But I think that that entire street right there.

G

That whole block has been neglected for a long time. You know, there's boarded up.

G

Houses there's boarded up buildings if it was that historical which there's.

G

Still, it remains to be seen that that is a mitchell building. If it is that historical, I believe that those would have been um taken care of.

G

And that whole block there has kind of been piecemealed.

G

There's big buildings, you know the chocolate moose is now gone and there's.

G

Something big there, so I just don't see how that can be.

G

Considered the same historical area, which I don't believe it is considered a.

G

Historical area, but I would just be one of them that would.

G

Support tearing it down and building something that would.

G

Further help and beautify our downtown area.

G

Thank you. Thank you.

A

You know my comment at this point is that I I I.

A

Disagree with the comments about the homeless.

A

uh Whether we put a new building there or not, we'll still have the same issue.

A

uh I do believe that it's the mitchell brothers building.

A

And I do believe it's worth the effort to move it on to city council.

A

um So I would like to hear from our commissioners.

A

uh What they would like for us to do.

E

Well, we have to make a motion one way or the other right to start this place.

A

Yeah jeffree demolition delay, showing options on release.

E

Right, no, I understand that, but there has to be a motion.

E

Based on the two, the so one motion has to be made one way or the.

E

Other and then voted on emotion can be made right. Yeah.

E

So I'll go ahead and make a motion um and then we'll just.

E

Go through the process right so today regarding the property located at 424.

E

And a half south walnut the historic preservation.

E

Commission declares that it got notice of the proposed demolition.

E

And after today's discussion sees no need to review the plans any further.

E

And waves, the rest of the demolition delay waiting period.

E

The hpc may later recommend the property for historic designation to the common.

E

Council, great, thank you jeff god do you. We do.

A

Roll call you need a second, though I'm sure we need.

J

But could you tell me with all that kind of demolition to language.

J

Whatever, what does the yes mean, and what does the no mean? Please confirm.

L

Yes means tear it down. Thank you. Thank you. Sam all, right.

C

Doug bruce.

O

Yes, sam desaler, yes, susan dyer,.

C

No jeff golden yes,.

C

C

Lee san wise.

C

Lee san wise, she might be muted.

N

Did you hear me right is that a no big, no yeah.

N

Okay, john saunders, no.

C

Chris sterbum no.

I

I said no, I'm can you hear me? Yes, chris, I'm ready.

A

C

C

Three, can you repeat that d, it's five three zero.

C

So five, no three! Yes, five! No! Three! Yes! All right! Thank you.

A

Very much so the motion fails okay, so someone else needs to make a.

E

Motion a move we follow connor's.

I

Recommendation to forward this to the common council.

E

There is a statement on the paper about that somebody's going to have to do that.

A

Then I'll read it now jeff resolution to start formal review of the.

A

Property for recommendation for multiple historic designation.

A

Effective resolutions start public hearing process.

A

Notice to adjacent property owners and publication.

A

In the herald times today regarding the property located in 424.

A

And a half south walmart the stark preservation commission.

A

Players then gap notice the proposed demolition and request the.

A

Staff to prepare a formal report of the property.

A

And put the property on the hpc agenda to be officially considered for historic.

A

Designation under bmc 8.08.01d.

A

Also, uh we would like to put in interim protection. We can't do.

B

C

No sam desaler, oh epstein, susan dyer,.

K

C

Jeff golden no hutton, yes,.

C

Lee san weiss, yes, john saunders, yes,.

C

And chris sterbaum, yes,.

C

Motion carries five two one, all right.

A

Thank you very much. Thank you. Everybody who came to our.

A

Commission meeting tonight uh look forward to moving this.

A

On okay, what is this.

I

What about interim protection, so the inner protection cannot be.

B

uh Placed until after the next meeting, because we have to give.

B

Notice to adjacent property owners and public hosting.

B

Right right so uh up next we have demo delay 2023.

B

This is a request for a full demolition of the california bungalow at.

B

uh 1003 west first street, um the hbc released two structures in.

B

The media vicinity several weeks ago, citing loss of historic contacts, the.

B

Situation for this property is no different same area same street uh staff would recommend the petitioner talk to bri to.

B

Explore moving the building is economically feasible, but staff would.

B

Recommend, ultimately, releasing demo delay 2023.

A

All right uh chris questions.

A

Does anybody have questions.

I

Can we can we put this off.

B

Yes, you don't have to make a decision today. I think it's in pristine.

I

Shape I hate to let go of it um I'd. I move that we.

I

Put this to the next meeting, continue it. Why.

E

Continue, why not have the discussion now? Does I want to eat supper.

I

That's, I guess, that's sort of a selfish position, but maybe somebody else wants.

I

A

Thank you chris. um So we need a motion uh from our members.

A

uh To move this back to our next meeting, I move. We continue it to next meeting.

A

All right, thank you. Chris.

A

Is everybody else in agreement no I'll say.

K

That I'm susan, thank you. Susan.

C

Dean doug bruce.

X

Yes, sam desaler, no susan dyer.

C

Yes, jeff golden no deb hutton.

C

No lee san wise, oh john saunders,.

C

No is that a no yes, yes, okay, christopher bomb.

I

C

Motions carry or is four zero fails. Okay,.

A

So, let's move on to the discussion.

B

But any commissioners like to comment on the item have anything to say.

J

Well I'll, ask you a question uh when you uh conor, you talked about bri.

J

Being suggested, does anything come from a discussion with bra.

B

I don't think the petitioner has met with bri. I.

B

Believe we asked him to do the same thing with the similar house last time.

B

I don't know if they've talked with bri, I believe the petitioner.

B

A representative of the petitioner is present with cheyenne riker.

B

uh Cheyenne, have you talked about moving, or do you want to do that.

AG

We have not discussed that.

A

Thank you, okay, yeah. What is the intent of taking it down.

I

What's the purpose of removal, so at this point we have a number of.

AG

Different ideas, so I work for a company called haven, behavioral health care.

AG

And we manage the the indiana center for recovery.

AG

Immediately adjacent, I believe this is the property immediately adjacent to 909.

AG

West 1st street, which is the apartment building to the west or to the east of the residents, that we're looking to demolish.

AG

And that whole area, uh first of all, this.

AG

Property has some structural shortcomings, I'm looking at the trinity home inspection. Now it has some some structural shortcomings and I.

AG

Understand your position, mr sterbaum, that that everything can be.

AG

Repaired and admittedly this one probably could be.

AG

Repaired but I think that the direction this area.

AG

Is moving in and the fact that there is very little as the as the staff.

AG

Recommends there's very little historic value to.

AG

AG

I don't, I think, that, regardless of the direction that we go, if it's in the same.

AG

Realm as the current use, which is largely.

AG

Health care, I think that we could just. I think that the the uh the historic preservation commission can.

AG

Justify uh what it is that we are hoping to.

AG

Accomplish here, which is to have this demolished, but the ideas that we've tossed around have.

AG

Circulated around the possibility of a garden area.

AG

uh We've talked about a potential park.

AG

You know sort of like a botanical garden, we've gone through.

AG

A number of different ideas- we just haven't settled on anything.

AG

um Specific at this point now, a typical a typical agreement can be.

I

To donate demolition costs to toward a move.

I

And that would be something we would like to see. You discuss.

I

With bloomington restorations, if you could.

I

F

It's nothing like it is actually on this. I believe, still on this.

D

In this meeting so he's here.

AG

I understand this probably isn't the proper context for this question, but is.

AG

Does anyone have the contact information.

AG

Or is this something I just need to? Google talk to connor.

E

Yeah connor can do that for you, okay, great, thank you.

B

Hey do we have any more any more comment from the commissioners.

E

The only comment I have is this is going to be a difficult sell.

E

In the political sense, especially since we've already allowed two in this on.

E

This street and in in the interest of you, know the.

E

Commission's uh want to get the previous.

E

Demolition delay through, I think it's worth our while to let this go.

B

Thank you jeff. Well, if anyone feel free to read the sheet to release.

B

It jeff, I think you have it. I do yeah I'll, read it so.

E

I gotta get him.

J

Jeff you're all mute. I know okay here we go today regarding the.

E

Property located at 1003 west first street, the historic.

E

Preservation, commission declares that it got notice of the proposed.

E

Demolition and after today's discussion sees no need to review the plans any further and weighs the rest of the demolition.

E

Delay waiting period, the hpc may later recommend the property for a historic.

E

Designation to the common council.

I

Second, okay, chris sterbone right.

C

L

He's gone, he left the meeting yeah sam desaler, yes,.

C

Susan dyer, yes, jeff golden yes,.

C

Deb hutton: yes, lee stan wise. Yes,.

C

B

John saunders, would you like to release uh yes, chris sterbum.

I

Yes, motion carry 7-0-0.

A

All right, that's the last of our business. Thank you very much.

A

So um adoption restaurant design guidelines.

A

Under uh old business, do you want to discuss that this evening or.

A

Would you like to table before next week, I'm ready to adopt them unless anyone.

B

Else has anything to say: I personally review them and I'm.

E

Happy with them- and I don't know you probably didn't.

L

Have time to look at what I sent you immediately before the meeting, but I've got a couple of uh illustrations to fill in.

B

Well, sam, if we can approve these tonight, I will certainly.

B

Incorporate those into the final version.

A

Okay, thank you. Sam.

A

So we both moved that we approved of the restaurant row guidelines.

E

Subject to uh sam's contribution, oh second, great.

A

D: okay, uh sam desaler, susan dyer, yes,.

C

Jeff golden yes deb hutton, yes, lee san weiss.

C

John saunders, yes, chris sturbum, yes, motion carry 700.

A

Okay, um commissioner thomas, I just want to.

I

Commend conor on a job well done! Thank you for your work.

I

You're here I'll second, that yeah, the report was really complete. I I.

E

Do have uh um duncan brought up a couple points.

E

About uh having some more detailed information.

E

Around uh coas, for instance, the door.

E

That kind of thing, if you can just make sure that some of that gets included.

E

In the original packet, I think that'd be really helpful.

B

I tried my best jeff uh susan sent me the door like three days ago.

B

So it should have included a powerpoint, but it slipped my mind today. It was a.

B

Crazy day, but I understand what you're saying I I know what you guys need and I try to deliver.

L

Appreciate, thank you. Yeah. You did a great job on the boxman thing. That was a.

E

Great story, yes, thank you, uh and I want to thank all.

A

Our commissioners this evening uh for all their input, it was very.

A

Valuable um any more comments.

A

All right hearing, then, um let's um give us a meeting.

A

Good night, good luck! Thank you good night thanks.

B

F

F