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City of Bloomington, Indiana
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Historic Preservation Commission
/ 9 Apr 2020
City of Bloomington, Indiana
/
Historic Preservation Commission
/ 9 Apr 2020
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From YouTube:
Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission, April 9, 2020
Description
meeting packet:
https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5721
A
I like to call to order the meeting the historic preservation commission for.
B
Thursday april 9 2020, so we need to take.
C
Okay, can everyone hear me yeah?
Yes, all right, doug bruce.
C
Sam de sóller, here susan dyer, here jeff golden here, deb.
C
Hutton lease and weiss krister bomb here, john saunders here.
C
Duncan campbell ernesto castaneda, derek richie, so moved.
D
So nope, okay, who moved gonna, get a name jeff g and samba solar.
Second, thank you.
C
I apologize, I can't always see who's making the motion whose seconding so.
C
Bear with me: okay, sam solar, yes, susan dyer, yes, jeff golden, yes, john saunders,.
E
Krister mom motion carries five zero zero.
Thank you.
B
All right, let's move on to the ceo ways in this we see, we've got a second set of.
C
Minutes, don't we both the thing?
Okay, I apologize my mistake.
Okay, twenty nine.
B
Eight ten, seventeen west sixth street missionary in jeremy boyles all right.
F
This is a non-contributing house, so it's rate is non-contributing on the.
F
Bloomington historic sites and structures survey, although we're not.
F
Looking at the house today we're looking at a detached garage in the backyard.
F
Staff believes the garage is circa 1940s.
The request is demolition of this.
F
Detached garage there is no guidelines in the air.
F
Westside conservation district, yet they're still being worked on staff.
F
Would recommend approval, see you a 28 on comments?
You can see the well the garage.
F
Isn't visible from sixth street at all, it's only visible from an alley that.
F
Runs in between kirkwood and six right, so these photographs from there's a.
F
Large tree here that you can see that is growing into the northeast corner of the.
F
Structure, it's begun to uproot the northern wall.
Essentially what this ball.
F
Is down to is this is a non original accessory building to a non contributing.
F
Primary structure and for those reasons to have to recommend approval of seaway.
F
2018, I want to correct the record here that this is in fact coa 2018 and that.
F
Coa 28, okay: jerry do you have any additional.
B
Information what I have nothing aside from what was already put forth, we're.
G
Looking forward to moving to build a newer structure, that would be more.
G
Functional than this one.
B
Thank you.
Okay, let's go to questions chris.
Do you have any questions with the.
E
New structure be reviewed, yes, that's a separate coa cool, no questions are is.
H
The new structure going to be built in the same location as the old structure.
H
And is that closer to the property line than currently allowed by planning?
So.
G
Amended to us is to move to the other side, where we have a garden currently.
G
And use this side for the garden instead, so we can appropriately house the.
G
Property lines: guess what I'm saying is if there, if you want to go up against.
H
The property line way this one is now which is usually part of the pattern of.
H
Settlement in that neighborhood you'll need to get a variance, but I.
H
Imagine, depending on what else is going on in the neighborhood and where you put.
H
The new garage, the hbc, would support a petition for a variance if you were.
H
Going to because you have a lot of smaller lots in your area and it might.
H
Be worth looking at that?
Yes, that's something!
We've already considered, we.
G
Just haven't gone forward to the planning stage x, we didn't know if we could move forward with this stage yet gotcha the only the only reason I say.
H
That is because, if you, if you repair in place, which means like you leave, you.
H
Know a little bit of the garage up you, you can do that without a variance.
G
Looking above plans that questions comments, I have a question john.
I found.
I
A password, my only question, was that when this.
I
Garage it when this garage is demolished, will the elm tree and the other big.
I
Trees around the garage be saved or they'll be consequently demolished too.
I
Because of how they're integrated into the building the goal is to save the.
G
Trees and the limestone also to reuse it, the property.
The goal is not to destroy.
G
Any of the trees at all thanks very much.
I
No, I don't have any questions thanks.
Yes, sam's comments, good, you have every right.
E
To rebuild in that space, and sometimes people will save you know two or three.
E
Two-By-Fours from the original structure and rebuild in that same space, so just.
E
Know, that's your right before you wave it, so we would, I would also say we would.
E
Be supportive of of a setback, variance that would be more in keeping with.
E
Traditional, you know close to an alley close to an edge, so you could get some.
E
Hpc support, if you want to do a more practical location than sometimes.
E
Planning wants to allow thank you, chris.
D
I'm in support of this on a ca and also say that building it right word is gonna.
D
Be problematic because of the tree yeah as well so, but I also agree that I would.
D
Be supportive of any kind of variance to get the garage in a different part of.
A
The site- I was just gonna, say what jeff just said so there's second thing: thanks.
H
Jeff thanks sam thanks john.
Yes, my only.
I
Comment would be changing the location to the other side would put it to the.
I
North side allow your garden to have south sun, not him.
I
Gosh, if I realize okay yeah, that was part of our goal, yeah, so I'd be.
I
Supportive to of the variance thank you, I support this one as well yeah.
I don't.
I
Have any other comments yeah, I support this project as well as everybody else.
B
So we'll need a motion move to approve ceo, a 20-18.
You take the vote, count.
I
Connor yeah, I think I got it: okay, sam to solar.
Yes, susan dyer, yes, jeff golden!
Yes,.
C
Deb hutton, yes, john saunders, yes, krister bomb, yes motion carries six zero.
B
All right, so, let's move on to coa 2017.
Yes, all right!
That would be similar.
B
Three seventh street universe and recurrence historic district.
I mean this.
B
Isn't a peanut is avi or todd on the call.
F
I can't hear anything if you're talking, you must be muted.
Okay, can you hear me?
I.
J
Can hear you thought all right?
Great, okay, okay, yeah, that's todd!
Okay, I'm.
F
Gonna go ahead with the or here so this coa was came to the hpc at the.
F
Last meeting and staff made a decision on it.
F
Staff approved a replacement of an old fire escape with a platform and stair.
F
That approved, enlarging the current doors, a person second bubbles of north.
F
Elevation to 36 inches egress and accessibility standards.
F
Staff denied the request to transform a window here into a door.
F
The petitioners needed a door to meet fire egress standards now that the.
F
Occupancy load will be increased on the building staff denied that the.
F
Petitioner filed a appeal and therefore, according to this historic preservation,.
F
Commission rules and procedures the full commission needs to review and make a.
F
Decision on this appeal and that's why we're here today so what they are.
F
Appealing is the decision to deny a door.
However, they've changed their petition.
F
Slightly, instead of creating a door from the window, they're gonna actually put in.
F
A new opening here so they're gonna leave the window alone and they're gonna.
F
Put a door opening in here and they're gonna model, it kind of a multi light.
F
Glazing pattern that you see on a similar bump out on the opposite side of.
F
The building, so staff at rec would just defer the hbc on this.
That finds the new.
F
Openings and the rear of the building is the place you want to put new openings.
F
That rear of the building is where you want to do additions and she.
F
And also the glazing pattern on the door would mimic the windows that are on the.
F
Northwest bump out and staff finds that that would enhance the symmetry balance.
F
Of the fenestration pattern of the building or for the new buildings, the.
F
Path, this door cannot be through a kitchen or a story, as it currently is to.
F
The existing back door, the rear door, the exit to this is through a kitchen that.
F
Is not allowed now is why the petitioner needs to create this new door.
Staff did.
F
Want to enumerate that the petitioner could potentially rearrange the interior.
F
To make the current rear exit meet code requirements by either moving the saw.
F
Room somewhere else or opening up you know in some interior walls or creating.
F
A passageway straight to the rear door, so there's options there as well.
So this.
F
One's a little complicated at staffs recommendation is just to defer.
Okay, the.
B
Petitioner, would you like to add to this.
J
So again, the the building is changing its use.
It was previously owned by the.
J
University as office space so was considered business occupancy.
It's now.
J
Owned by a student organization, so it's viewed as assembly, a student.
J
Organization, / worship.
So it's now viewed as assembly occupancy, which means.
J
It needs to be able to handle a higher load of occupants that, as you do, a.
J
Chapter 34 assessment: it ends up that they need to have an additional.
I mean.
J
You have at least two extra doors.
You know they currently have a front door.
J
And they have a rear door.
However, the rear door is access through the kitchen.
J
And you're not allowed to do that.
You could move some walls around, but we've.
J
Got the staircase there and a weird some weird wall configurations to deal with.
J
Plus, it still would be habit which still require people to empty into an.
J
Adjoining room, which does not just not looked upon favorably at the state level,.
J
So you know, as we look at the outside, of the building, that northeast corner when.
J
You look at it it if you and I'm sorry, I don't have a photo of the northwest.
J
Corner but when you look at the northeast corner, it's there's this blank.
J
Spot a wall that doesn't match the rest of the building, and so it makes just it.
J
Makes sense that that would be a nice aesthetically pleasing.
J
It would look original because if you look at the northwest bump out, there is.
J
A fence tration there, and so it helped balance, asymmetry plus they'd only be.
J
Viewed from the rear, as well.
B
Connor we aren't seeing I'm not seeing what you're showing no yeah.
I can see.
I
The picture up now, that's the northeast corner, pointing to where the door will.
I
Be okay.
I can see the northeast corner.
B
Sure, okay, chris, you start please no question yeah.
I got the pictures now.
E
That's good now that you can see it no there.
You can see that there you can see.
J
The fenestration on the northwest corner, you can see how there there's a lower.
J
Window there on that and that's sorry on that northwest corner.
Sorry.
J
You can see, there's a lower window and then, if we move over to the northeast.
J
Corner you see that fence tration is missing, so it will make it look more.
J
Natural there, you can see a better view of that fenestration.
No, I think the.
I
Concept is terrific, the location is great and an improvement.
My only.
I
Question has to do with the planned door.
In one picture, it says the doors will be.
I
Like sort of wooden french doors on another side, the space- that's underneath.
I
The window here looks like this room for a single door, so just asking about the.
I
Door plan it will be a single door.
Originally, we were looking at something.
J
With just a simple, too light, and then after thinking about it, we said, ok makes.
J
Sense to have a multi light pattern like that, so sorry for the confusion, it will.
J
Not be two doors, it'll be a single door, but it'll have the multi, like you know,.
J
Ten panes in it or eight somewhere in that range great.
Thank you very much questions, no questions.
What is the width of that.
H
Masonry opening of the window above the proposed door on the northeast corner.
H
I believe it 32 inches.
I'd have to go and double-check that, and so the door.
H
Below is proposed to be a 36 inch door because it's negress door.
Yes, that's.
H
Correct what is the material of the door and.
H
Frame, do you have that picked out yet?
No, we have not picked it out.
It would be.
J
White, you know to match to match the trim work of everything else.
So you're.
H
Looking at, like a probably at least 40 inch wide masonry opening for that door,.
H
Below right.
H
Thirty-Six or yeah about yeah about two inches first on each side for the.
J
Frame got that's about right, so, given that the other ones 32 and the the thing.
H
Below is 40, you got an 8 inch, its it's gonna, be about any interests, wider, okay,.
H
I think that's, oh yeah!
If you look, if you look the I'm sorry, the the window.
J
It's the the window where we were pointing to that says: copy header style.
J
I believe that window is wider than the one above it connor.
If you go to your.
J
Slide 10, I think you can see it's just a question, I'm not saying it's bad, so you.
J
Can see how the lower windows are all wider than the upper penetration?
No, no.
I.
I
Don't have any questions you mentioned that the stonework was different from.
B
The original that's a what was fine.
The limestone work is different.
No, no!
No!
No.
J
I know it, I, I understand your question now now, when you look at it, it looks.
J
It's very curious why this wall was, it's always been solid, but when you look at.
J
The rest of the building- it's it's very unusual to not have an opening below an.
J
Upper opening, as you walk around the rest of the building, so it just looks.
J
Out of place proposing material, do you think I'll be it will I.
A
Think we'll lean towards a steel door being that it is an exit door.
May I ask.
I
Another question john yeah, as I look at the photograph there's a bush there, but.
I
If you take out the bush you put in a door, I will I'm assuming to be some kind of need for some staircase.
A few steps to.
I
Three to get down to the ground level and then esaron.
There wondered what your.
J
There is so there is a plan to have a patio right here for the jewish center.
J
To hold their outdoor work, they're required outdoor religious events that.
F
Was actually in the previous that was approved thanks, we can show you that if.
F
You like to see the patio do.
John chris.
I support this change.
Jeff I've been in.
D
This building it's a really cool building.
I think this is this: isn't.
D
Significantly changing this property and I support this coa I supported it's.
I
Great news for the building, thanks sam, I have no problem adding the door.
I have a.
H
Couple of things you might be happier with, I would say that you might be.
H
Happier with swapping the swing of the door so that the strike is on the.
H
Opposite side, that's what you've got shown: sort of trapping that the door and.
H
The gay building, but that's just a houston, yeah, there's nothing to do with.
H
Us really, and then this is related to the last coa.
H
Something that you might look at and might even come back to us on the.
H
Balcony or exit stair on the last coa is shown with some w 6 by 9s punching.
H
Through the building and four locations, and yet it looks from the photographs, I.
H
Haven't been on site, it looks from the photographs that those six by 9s would.
H
Occur in the exact same place that the peak of the rake of that roof do is that.
H
Fair to say yes, but when we did our last field, verification work with the.
J
Installer we were noticing that we may have a little bit of conflict there and.
J
Have to do some adjustment haven't come up with the exact solution yet, but we'll.
J
Probably have to do, we may have to do some adjustment there so that we're not.
J
Going into the top of the roof yeah, if you do end up adjusting something, I.
H
Would strongly advocate for just bolting an angle like a continuous angle, to.
H
Carry that decking along the whole face of that building.
We generally don't like.
H
To have big holes punched in the masonry and I think that'll avoid some of your.
H
Roofing issues and it might be easier to do, but that's you know just sort of.
H
Means and methods concerned as well as I.
I
Think this looks good.
I like how they're changing it move to approve co, a 20-17.
F
Sorry.
I
17-Second all right.
F
Andy, that was jeff that made the motion and dev that seconded the motion.
You.
F
Might be yes, it was dampe seconded yes, okay, all right!
Thank you all right, sam.
C
To solar, yes, susan dyer, yes, jeff golden, yes, deb hutton, yes, john saunders!
Yes,.
B
Krister baum, yes, motion, carries six zero.
Okay, thank you.
B
Yeah, you guys are invited to consult on a section 106 project.
I think they're.
F
Expanding the cellular equipment- that's on top of the grand plaza hotel.
We have.
F
I think about 30 days to get some sort of official comment back if we want to.
F
Comment on the project, so all this is is an invitation to consult, so they just.
F
Send me a letter and say: do you guys have anything to say about this?
If you.
F
Do you might be a part of the consulting process?
So that's why I put it in the.
F
Package- and you know made it available to you guys to see and review and see if.
F
You had anything any comments you wanted to make about it and I can get that for.
F
The appropriate people, I think we need to have a little more information myself.
B
What's gonna, what will happen to the building the fact that they're going to.
B
Expand the communication device.
F
Wasn't that in it's in it's in the packet, but it's unclear as to where.
H
Exactly they are which facade they have a penthouse facade, but it's not labeled.
H
Which direction that facade is so, and the plan of the building has a north.
H
Arrow, but it doesn't necessarily say it doesn't, have the pout.
You know the.
H
Outline of which building it is nor the adjacent buildings know where the street.
H
Is so it's hard to reference what's happening where it does reference.
H
Existing equipment and who the new equipment is adjacent to that, but I.
H
Think it would be more helpful to have it relative to the entire plan of the.
H
Floor of the building?
Okay, so we yep.
Okay, if I understand the divers diagrams.
I
Correctly, a is the penthouse so far back that no one can see it anyway from the.
I
Floor from the street, and second most of the things are, the new things seem to be.
I
Just attached to existing things, however, what looks to be new to me attached to.
I
The side does it need to be attached if it's brand new into the mortar is that.
I
Something we would be looking at and so not knowing what the construct of the.
I
Pentose current penthouse is, and is that really new stuff or new attached to the.
I
Old to the sides not on the roof top those would be my questions.
Connor can.
H
You show a like a google maps view of the building from the south down.
I guess.
H
That's college yeah: do you guys see the we see right now on the screen?
The.
H
T-Mobile site plate.
What was the address right by there?
I.
F
Can type in college.
F
Tyler texas, what that's what I'm looking at right now, I'm deb you're correct the.
D
Existing equipment is way up high in the center of the building.
You can barely.
D
See it go back a little bit about in front of the tab.
You can start to see.
H
The pin house, if you get a little further south on call.
H
If you go down 6th and turn around you'll be able to see it be across the.
I
Street, though, on the courthouse lawn.
B
Yeah, you can see all that stuff from both down college and from up 6.
So I.
H
Guess what I'm wondering is like?
Are they gonna put more closer to the edge.
H
Of the street or not, I don't think it's gonna make it any less or more ugly.
H
Because it's you know, if you don't notice, what's there now, it's not gonna.
H
Really change it right, and that was something I was.
F
Trying to figure out by sometimes that what they send in those section, 106.
F
Documents, and especially on the cellular equipments really hard to tell exactly.
F
What changes are happening when they're updating existing equipment and I think.
F
That's a problem we have here.
Where did that?
Go I just okay.
Let me just try and.
F
Prove to breeze through this and see what we can see, so this must be the roof.
F
Here, yeah that's hard to tell what the where the edge of the building is and.
H
What building they're putting it on, and this looks like what we're seeing from.
F
That view six right well, the north is up on these plans, so our college is gonna.
H
Run up the top like this yeah right to left.
F
So this is all existing stuff.
Oh wait, wait.
Northeast north is up kavya college.
H
Is running up and down on the on the right-hand side, then sorry, so I think.
H
What's it blue, here they're, adding to the side of the building these new.
F
Antenna mounts yeah, but that's not labeled what elevation?
That is, if you.
D
Look at the front building, there's even more antennas up there and then there's.
D
A tall like radio antenna too, so they have a pipe here already and they're.
F
Just gonna put another antenna on there.
I
They putting on a new one, are they replacing an old and getting rid of it?.
I
And putting the new where the old was it's hard to tell.
F
No, no go back to that elevation again.
If you would this one, the penthouse.
H
Elevation, I think it's one down house here, yeah that one.
B
Should there be the south side of the building that I don't know, that's what.
H
I'm trying to figure out.
I don't think so, because that elevation points out.
H
Existing pipe mounts might be looking this way.
That's a good guess, but it's a.
H
Guess that's my problem.
B
Go back up to this sixth street, but head east on six, and because we can't get a.
B
Little drip you the front of the.
B
Probably some of it there, but I don't see any existing pipes.
Well, that's what.
F
These are mounted to your there's a little skinny pipes, but it doesn't does.
H
It say anywhere that they're removing antenna you to be mounted on an existing.
F
Pipe needed to be mounted on an existing pipe, it doesn't say anything about.
F
Removing something whatever fh fb is to be removed, yeah, but those look like roof.
H
Mounted, as opposed to wall mounted things, the 1 c, 2 c, 3 c, the 1 a 2, a 3, a.
H
And 1, b, 2, b 3 b at the bottom look like they're stuck on the side of the.
H
Penthouse.
H
Yeah here we go so maybe that penthouse is the rectangle toward the bottom.
H
That's got the little door symbol, and so the south go down a little bit from.
H
Where your arrow is that door is where the wall mounts yeah, so that I'm.
H
Guessing is then the south side where it says existing wall mounts is the south.
H
Side of the penthouse, or maybe the east side- well, there's a north arrow at the.
H
Bottom, if I haven't screwed that up again, there's three south and three on.
I
The east- both yes yeah but they're, calling those existing wall mounts.
H
They're not saying that there is an existing antenna there and it looks like.
H
There's existing stuff there, so it's totally confusing yeah you're right.
F
My my best guess would be they're just replacing it, but as a guess, I think if.
D
We want to consult on this.
We can decide to do that and then ask for this.
D
Information, otherwise, I think we're spinning our wheels here.
I personally.
D
Don't think it's a big change and not worth the effort, I'm with jeff on that.
I
One I'm fairly ambivalent, it's pretty cluttered up there, but their.
H
Documentation is terrible, and then you know it's, I don't.
I agree.
I probably am.
H
Not gonna change anything, so I think we wait until there's a case where it'll.
H
Make a significant difference all right, so I will not.
F
Responds them and we will not be consulting on this.
I have.
I have one.
E
Question sure immunity chris okay right can- I be can here now okay, so if you got.
E
Information and then it just confirms that it's nothing, then just staff.
E
Approve, if, if it worries us or you find out those are on the previously unused.
E
Side, which is unlikely then we could.
We could talk to the commission about it.
E
How's that sound.
F
Well, here it is our plan proposed to co-locate antennas.
What does that mean.
F
Exactly the same area, colocation sounds like it.
That's just weird spelling it's.
F
Not co loc, a peeve, oh okay, oh okay, okay,.
I
: colo kate mean simply replace, so you still see three where we did see three.
I
What does it mean add more to what we're visually see sounds like it would be.
E
Adding co-locate yeah well, we could I mean, and this is a question, can we say.
H
We have no problems with this as long as they do not put anything on the western.
H
Elevation of the building of the penthouse- yes, that can be our own.
It.
E
Wasn't the southern exposed also sorry saying: wasn't the southern exposure.
E
Blank also know I have a bunch of okay, east south.
D
And west sides have antennas north snotty, not west yeah, you're right.
I'm.
D
Sorry, I can see it from the west yeah.
E
I'll agree with jeff I'll back up yeah.
B
Yeah so yeah, so nothing on the west side.
Right now and there were it's going to.
H
Be off their property.
I hope yeah well I'll, make that comments and hpc doesn't.
F
Have issues as long as the less elevation remains unchanged, good, read.
B
Agree: okay, great great awesome.
B
Oh it's blank.
Commissioner.
Comments.
No comment.
Sorry.
I
Yeah this was it to set up this meeting,
um
not so bad.
We I did.
A few trial runs.
F
Earlier this week and we knocked out some bugs so I'm actually pretty pretty.
F
Happy with how we went today, good for you.
Thank you very good.
Thank you.
Thanks.
H
Connor.
Thank you.
Sam.
B
All the conditioners coming today and joining this new mode of communication.
B
Sure yeah, we don't have any public comments and announcements are that the.
B
Preservation, things be canceled and let me I do have a couple things.
I guess on.
B
That note, oh yes, of course, the statewide preservation conference was canceled.
I.
F
Pushed back until over, they rescheduled it to be an october.
Remember the exact.
F
Day I also postpones the bob yap event I was going to have in may.
We pushed that.
F
Back to september 26th, so, essentially all the preservation month, events that.
B
We don't hear any more we're gonna end this meeting, so it's all gonna thanks.
H
Alright, thank you.
Thank you me thanks.
So much take care of.
H
Stay safe, everybody over and out.
A
You.