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City of Bloomington, Indiana
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Historic Preservation Commission
/ 25 Jun 2020
City of Bloomington, Indiana
/
Historic Preservation Commission
/ 25 Jun 2020
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From YouTube:
Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission, June 25, 2020
Description
meeting packet:
https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5968
A
Or our meeting of june 25th, 2020 and.
B
Okay, doug briefs sam solar here, susan dire jeff golden era, damn hutton lease.
B
And wife's here, john saunders here, krister bomb.
So that's only for.
B
Commissioners, work; okay, all right, no problem.
B
Okay duncan campbell, our national castaƱeda, derek ritchie.
B
Ginny southern go: second, okay, you have golden and half dead; okay, all.
B
Right, lambda, solar, yeah, jeff golden yes, deb.
C
Hutton yes leaf and white.
Yes, john saunders.
Yes,.
D
Motion carries 5-0, we don't need certificates tonight, but we do know.
A
Demolition delay so we'll move on to that demo delay 29:14 all right.
This is.
E
A contributing structure, a tudor revival built circa 1930, 706, north washington.
E
Street the home is mentioned in a walking tour brochure entitled cottage.
E
Grove the store district, but staff can't seem to find.
E
The districts listed locally or in the national register, so I don't know what.
E
District that that brochure is talking about it's a survey district connor.
This.
F
Came out of the survey has potential districts in it.
That's what that means.
F
Okay, so it was a district that was identified as becoming potentially.
E
Historic district having the necessary criteria, but it is not so that's why.
E
We're doing a demolition delay, so the work is considered a partial demolition.
E
You can see here we get a good front view of the house.
I don't have it so.
G
Here's a front view of the house.
The request is to build a room.
This is gonna.
E
Be a bathroom on top of this little cutout room here, a porch or whatever it.
E
May be- and you can see here in this drawing this is what it's going to look.
E
Like so, this is considered a partial demolition.
Well, the project would not.
E
Really be recommended in it, this was a little historic district doesn't find.
E
The alteration severe enough to warrant pursuing designation and protection of.
E
The building, okay, is the positioner with us this evening, justin sullivan, no.
A
Suggestion but we can move ahead with this.
Yes, okay, so questions any questions.
A
I don't leave my questions.
No susan, sam, do we know what its gonna look like from.
H
The street I mean that a bad picture looks like it's putting a couple of.
H
Windows on the side, but it looks like who knows.
H
What's going on the street side and I'm guessing from the picture, it's a flat.
H
Roof this is the last drop of information.
Oh my god.
I think this is.
E
All they submitted to the building department.
Well, I know the building.
H
Departments going to make them put gutters on there, but well what was in.
H
The package packet didn't even have this little pencil sketch over.
Let the.
E
Presentation so I just got what was given to the I guess: county building and.
E
The county building gave it to me.
They give me everything they get so.
D
Demolition delay again we just yeah.
I that's.
I was just curious, yeah agreement.
A
Today, regarding property located at 7:06, north washington street destroyed.
A
Preservation, commission declares that it got murders a proposed demolition or.
A
Partial demolition and after today's discussion sees no need to review the.
A
Plans any further and where's the rest of the demolition plan.
In writing.
A
Waiting period the hpc may later, rent when the property first start.
A
Designation to the common castle, okay, damned.
B
Sam sam to solar?
Yes, yes, damn hutton; yes, lease and wife.
Yes, john saunders!
Yes,.
B
Motion carries 5-0 before we move on.
I just want a compliment.
Staff on the the.
H
Picture from the street, thank you.
The couch is a joust.
I
Aimed all the way, nice!
Okay!
Sorry, sorry guys.
A
River to demo delay 20-15 2300 west, a prayer petitioners duncan campbell, so.
E
This is a high house built circa 1830, listed as a rated as outstanding for the.
E
Borland home in first corey, so what the proposal is is a moderately sized.
E
Addition to the historic home you can see here, the addition will essentially.
E
Be the size of here's, the outline in red of the addition, the reasons coming up as.
E
A demolition delay is because this little covered entryway into the.
E
Basement will have to be demolished.
There was also a pouring concrete slab.
E
Here that has been demolished, both of those two items were constructed by.
E
Duncan campbell who's the present owner, so these are non original pieces to the.
E
House, obviously house being built in 1830, so that's the extend the addition.
E
Here are some elevation drawings, so this was a yeast elevation here.
If you're.
E
Looking at the front facade the historic house, so if you read the national park.
E
Service's preservation, brief 14: that's the preservation, brief detailing.
E
Additions to historic structures, it talks about additions needing to be.
E
Differentiated yet compatible is what you're striving for in a design with in.
E
Addition, you don't want an addition that overpowers or obstructs the historic.
E
Structure that it's attached to a staff finds that this is a textbook example of.
E
An addition to a historic structure, it's differentiated for the use of.
E
Materials, so while the original building is brick, the addition is fiber.
E
Cement lap siding so differentiates selfie sighting.
It also differentiates.
E
Itself is that and that it's in set or set back from the front building wall.
E
The historic structure, which is something you like to see it's.
E
Compatible in that its use of fenestration, you can see in the.
E
Fenestration on the original home and then the fenestration here on the.
E
Addition, similar glazing patterns and sizes and locations of windows, also, if.
E
You look at the rough shape of the addition you can see it here.
It mirrors.
E
The reshape of the historic house- it's also doesn't compete with this door.
E
Building in terms of scale, it's smaller, so it being one story so for these.
E
Reasons staff finds that demolition delayed 2015 should be release so jeff.
A
Came any questions I do not have any questions lee.
I know I don't have any.
I
Questions- sam, just you, john yeah, I forgot I forgot to update in the bar.
I
Doesn't work so right there thank you
um
duncan and kathy.
What's the roof.
I
Material roofing material of the addition metal, I'm a metal roof yeah.
F
Hopefully, it'll be a rolled metal standing, seam roof, which is what the is.
F
On the original house, oh okay, good thanks.
I
Same color, yes, thanks buddy me questions.
No, I don't have any.
J
Questions already sorry, who sure window manufacturer these are mainly on curious.
H
Questions this is gorgeous, but yeah yeah.
Those are those are marvin.
Oh, I was.
H
Hoping you would say, marvin ready-mades, actually they they have a size.
That's.
F
Just a half an inch different from the originals and the other question is what.
H
Are these limestone shot treated units for the foundation?
Is that a veneer.
H
Yeah, the the original house is solid, limestone and the front facing elevation.
F
On the east is, has feathered finish on it, so it's all it's all.
You can see.
F
Where it's flattened, when you turn the corner, it goes to goes to split, face.
F
Basically, just it's it's hand cut, so what we're doing is we're putting in a.
F
Concrete block crawlspace foundation and then, where it's exposed above grade.
F
We're putting a shot finished limestone to complement, not imitate the original.
I.
F
Guess my last question is: do you have problems with creatures crawling under.
H
The original house picture was taken after I took out the damp.
There are.
F
Windows in the basement, as you can see above grade and they're they're big.
F
Formed poplar frames and they have square bars, wood bars, horizontal bars.
F
Across them and those have always when I got the house, those had a kind of an old.
F
Sash nailed to the back of them, a lot of the bars had been removed, so we've.
F
Reconstructed them as they were originally, but we took them out in order.
F
To pump concrete into the cellar so because we're going to put a concrete.
F
Floor and drains in the cellar and that enclosure on the south end that I'm.
F
Taking down is over the cellar entry, which is an exterior entrance, and that.
F
The addition will look, even though it's built by a very.
H
Famous person, it's not as right, so it's a classic imitation of what wasn't there.
F
So that's that will come up into the house into the enclosure.
Well, thank you.
A
You know we kind of go back with their half round gutter sabers on the house.
F
Roofs, this rolled steel standing seam like the like the one on the house.
There.
F
Was a little shake yeah, I think we've got all our questions and comments and.
A
Let's do comments.
Sorry.
A
Yeah I'm going to approve this such a great project sounds great.
Thanks, looks.
I
Fantastic, I can't wait to see it.
This is a ridiculously appropriate project and.
H
I'm probably going to pester duncan for the name of his roofing contractor after.
H
This is all over west chapel road, the historic preservation commission.
A
Declares that a cat lord as opposed demolition or partial demolition and.
A
After today's discussion sees no need to review the plans any further and what is.
A
The rest of demolition delay waiting period.
The hbc may later recommend the.
A
Property or historic, designation to the tech that.
H
Was sam?
Okay, thank you, sam to solar, yes, jeff golden yes, deb.
C
Hutton: okay: I seen the thumbs up leaf and wife.
Yes,.
K
John saunders, yes, motion carries 5-0.
A
Anytime, you want party I'm trying to get duncan the last house.
I retreat there.
E
One year, I think, I'd be awesome.
Oh yeah.
A
Alright, let's move on to dimond in delay: 2016 4, 2016 10 street man- are you with.
A
Us tonight I saw him join.
Yes, he is he's there.
E
Alright, so the hpc actually released this from demolition willie on january.
E
9Th 2020 over the building plans have changed.
E
Matt's gotten with me, and we decided that it needs to go through demolition.
E
They get delay again.
The previous demolition delay was to add a dormer to.
E
The east elevation, the new proposal- is to raise the entire roof height up matt.
E
Can correct me when I'm done or feet or five feet, something like that.
E
And they're going to be building a essentially broom on each side behind.
E
The dormer so they're going to raise up the roof height the pitch on the front.
E
Gable will remain the same, but then once you create some more head space for some.
E
Upstairs living so they'll be raising the roof height and adding some rooms.
E
Here to the rear behind the 2 dormers, you can see some elevations there.
E
Because the entire roof is changing and to room.
E
Addition on the second level, this is really a substantial demolition over it.
E
If you look at the house from the street, which I took a couple photographs here,.
E
On because of where it isn't a lot, and what is what's beside that you can't.
E
Really see behind these doors very well have addition that goes on behind these.
E
Worms will be hard to notice.
You will certainly notice the height of the roof.
E
Going up, however, I want to remind the commission that this is a contributing.
E
Building and ultimately this is the demolition delay and what we're doing.
E
Here is siding whether or not yeah, so.
E
Okay, well you finish.
Thank you.
Questions no.
D
Questions yeah.
I know questions sam, no questions.
No, I don't have any questions.
D
So I just did it about 25 properties in this area, and so I've been walking.
D
Around a bunch in in this area- and that's really, you know the context- is.
D
You know l still fit in it.
Does I'm sad to lose the original shape of this house.
D
But because of where it is, I'm gonna support it.
J
Iii will support this yeah yeah it'll look boxy from the side, but from the.
I
Front, it's pretty ingenious to keep the front looking fairly much the same and.
I
Hide all the the big new rooms, the space on the second floor, new second floor.
I
Behind the dormer, so that was pretty well done so I'll support.
It.
I
Thank you sam.
I just want to point out.
I think this is architectural ii.
H
Interesting because what he is doing, he's moving the front door from off to.
H
The side looks like maybe two front: doors yeah and he's centering it on the porch entry.
So anyway, it's cleaning it up and.
H
Then popping the three lifting the front roof three feet up, which I don't think.
H
Is bad?
You know that the back is the back and that's what it is, but I'm.
H
Curious as to what happened, what the original configuration of this house is.
H
And I think, but I I agree with jeff, I think it'll, given the con.
H
Text, I've got no issues with it all support it and I think, given what else.
H
Is going on on that they've read it.
I think this is a very sensitive.
H
Renovation of this house yeah, I agree with salmon and jeff it.
The context has.
F
Been lost here, it's a lovely, fairly original bungalow.
F
But it's far from original and you know it's a reasonably nice way to make a.
F
Rental, bigger and that's what most of the houses on this street have been.
F
Doing for years, we've we've lost, we've lost what district there was there a.
F
Long time ago- and I agree- this is a pretty nice nice way to address this.
F
House and delay- and we don't even need to talk today, we're supposed to second.
H
This holler, thank you, lambda solar, yes, jeff golden!
Yes, damn.
C
Hutton yes leaf and white.
Yes, john saunders.
Yes,.
A
Motion carries five to zero.
We don't have anything to discuss today.
We don't.
A
Have any old businesses, so we recognizance, I might have a couple.
I.
H
Want to bring up some, I don't know connor, there's the thing on the square.
H
And then there's the apartment, building at the corner of second and fess would.
H
You, if the commissioners don't know, would you bring them up to speed on that.
H
Yeah, so the building is on the corner of 6th in north college.
It used to be the.
E
Virtual reality, business there's been some construction going on there.
The.
E
Last couple of weeks we saw that and we issued a stop-work order because they.
E
Hadn't gotten a certificate of appropriateness.
I've since been trying.
E
To I finally talked to somebody today and kind of got the lowdown on what's.
E
Happening to the store front of that building and looks like they're.
E
Essentially, ripping off the old fascia, which sounds investigative and it looked.
E
Like some kind of stone material, although the contractor told me it was.
E
Would certainly wasn't wood, they ripped that off they're gonna put new wood on.
E
There and they're going to be putting like a metal cover over it.
I believe, as.
E
Well, they want to remove a brick column.
There that's non structural in the.
E
Corner, that's just decorative.
They want to put some new signage up there.
E
Replacing all the plate glass to get thicker glass.
I believe it's to one inch.
E
So I told him I need a coa and we're working on that, but city.
E
Planning is issued a stop order in the meantime.
So that's where that is the.
E
Other item that sam brought up was the- I don't remember the name of them.
They're.
E
An apartment complex that still kind of spanish colonial style in the heights.
E
Neighborhood they owner recently replaced.
What would you call that sam.
E
The parapet, every wall, with a red clay tiles.
Now all.
E
Metal- and so that was illegally done without a seat away, because that.
E
Building is locally designated by itself, so I left a voicemail and run the email.
E
To the property owner and something or anything back so looks like we'll be in.
E
The next stage of sending them a letter or something yeah well they're right.
Yes,.
D
Yes, we're not here when we went to this with that billy!
No, yes only said no.
D
Yeah, yes, that's the one.
I want to drag legal into this sorry philippa, but I.
H
Want to say, I want to ask what are the options when we get a non-responsive.
H
Owner who has egregiously violated hbc, you know what you're supposed to do with.
H
The designated building I mean hp is the you know their.
H
Occupancy permits and I'm wondering what kind of sticks we have, and you hear me.
K
Yes, yeah: the enforcement is the same as we would for any other kind of.
K
Enforcement, I believe you would just you send them a letter, tell them what.
K
They've done wrong, they've got to come in and you know get a coa and if they.
K
Don't we would end up suing them?
They were here before their own intake.
Yes,.
D
They wanted to put a big pitched roof on it, which was the impetus for designating.
H
The building in the first place right so actually he's probably violated when.
A
We asked him not to do yes, yeah, absolutely.
J
Sam, were you wondering about residential rentals?
This is eric with hand.
Yes, it is.
H
A residential ii rented apartment building- and I am I'm curious- if hand.
H
Has any you know larger more immediate sticks?
I mean, I think, if you're going to.
H
Stop this kind of behavior you have to hit them in the pocketbook, or else I'm.
H
Not going to pay attention well, we would.
We would actually find them before we.
K
Brought them into court in general generally, we can't revoke any sort of.
J
Occupancy permit, I don't know what the current status is.
I have to look into this property more, but any time you're coming up for one.
We haven't you at.
J
Least, once in recent history prevented a new occupancy permit or violation of.
J
Other city, titles, and so one recent one involved a planning issue and and.
J
Potentially, if they're out of compliance with historic, that could be a bar to a.
J
Future rental permit so yeah that that's a consideration gotcha.
Thank you eric.
I.
H
Think that address is my big stick: question right, connor, I just texted you.
D
His cell phone changed too many things now.
To begin with, I guess I wanted to.
H
See if the commissioners had any thoughts on what was going on on that.
H
Building on the square on the corner, with the owner, removing original.
H
Material, I don't know if it's original material, that's a good question.
It's like the material that they're purporting to be.
Would that isn't it.
E
Well, I know jeff called me and told me: it was happening about the day it.
E
Started the day after it started, he noticed it and called me, and I told him.
E
We were already money, so I said why else you know see anything or.
E
Have any other ideas about it yeah!
Well that time we had already removed all the.
D
Original stops yeah I had when I went in it was about half gone and then it's now.
H
All gone, are they new owners who should have who.
I
Are who can plead ignorance of not knowing they're in a historic district.
I
With guidelines and coa requirements or willfully going ahead and ignoring.
I
Everything could be, you know, lease improvement, you know who knows who's.
D
Actually responsible for the world, sam, the big question comes in to factor.
I
With this issue too right, what was that sam's question to philippa and eric.
I
About what are our big sticks that comes into question for this issue, to correct.
I
I think you did you want me to comment on that.
I mean, is that an apartment.
K
Building it's a mixed-use, the bottom florida's commercial.
The top floor is.
E
Residential yeah, well, I would, it would still be the.
K
Same enforcement mechanisms- I don't know the occupancy permit is eric- is right.
K
But that's that's pretty touchy.
I just want to comment on that because that.
K
Ends up evicting people ultimately, and I don't know if we want to do that, so we.
K
Do that very cautiously?
I think this might be an opportunity, though, to I mean.
H
That that facade has been pretty mangled, and this might be an opportunity to.
H
Clean it up and get it a little closer to what might have originally been there.
H
Because there's been a lot of stuff slapped on and plastered on to the.
H
Existing structure, so you know, let's keep an eye on this one.
E
The annual saving historic places conference- you know, which is the state.
E
Indiana statewide historic preservation conference, which is originally scheduled.
E
Back in april was pushed back to october.
It's haven't cancelled for this year,.
E
And you know is now being scheduled, I believe for october of 2021 still in.
E
South bend so that is no longer in play.
I also received a message from the.
E
States certified local government coordinator saying that we essentially.
E
He's waiving the cld requirements for this year.
As far as commissioner.
E
Education and other things, because of all the cancellations from the public.
E
Health crisis, so I just want to let you guys know that school's out for the.
H
Summer, a little ow, okay and we don't have any.
A
More announcements, so that means it's time for adjournment all right.
Bye.
A
Everybody.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Nice.
H
Project I can't.
G
You.