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From YouTube: June 13, 2022 City Council Listening Session
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A
I
will
call
this
bloomington
city
council
listening
session
to
order
tonight.
It's
5
46
we've
got
four
council
members
here
missing.
Well,
so
I'll
say
who's
here,
coulter,
martin,
d'alessandro
and
bussey
are
present
and
expecting
expecting
moment.
I'm
sure
he's
caught
in
traffic
on
his
way.
We
have
one
person
who
signed
up
for
this
evening
to
talk
to
us.
Miss
sally
ness,
sally,
come
on
forward.
B
A
council
member
had
asked
why
this
property
at
82
ohm
park
and
that
comment
supports
the
need
for
the
yes
and
no
questions
to
be
answered
so
that
council
member,
so
that
council
members
will
not
have
to
ask
why?
Because
they
will
know
why
I
have
not
received
responses
to
all
my
questions
and
some
of
the
responses
I've
received
have
not
been
clear
and
therefore
tonight
I'm
asking
the
questions
again.
B
So
I'm
gonna
start
from
beginning.
So
the
first
question
I
had
asked
on
april
25th
was
yes
or
no
to
a
question
from
approved
minutes
july,
2nd
2012
that
state
a
council
member
said
the
cup
is
a
contract
and
asked
if
it's
fraud,
when
someone
makes
representations
to
entice
someone
to
make
a
contract,
and
then
they
don't
follow
through
with
what
they
promised
and
or
proposed,
and
I'm
sure
the
attorney
is
the
one
that
would
be
answering
this.
A
B
A
Mr
rugby,
how
do
we
answer
this?
This
is
so
that
mr
mayor
and
council.
C
Members,
the
the
question
around
fraud
is
not
simple
to
answer,
because
there
are
many
different
things
that
would
qualify
as
wrong
and
the
biggest
thing
about
whether
something
is
fraud
has
to
do
with
intent.
B
Again,
this
is
a
general
question,
so
we're
not
talking
about
a
specific
where
it's
just
in
general.
In
general,
when
somebody
comes
in
front
of
the
city,
we
expect
accuracy
and
if
someone
was
misrepresenting
the
their
intentions
for
the
use
and
they
were
doing
it
to
make
a
contract,
is
it
fraud
and
I'm
not
talking
about?
Is
it
fraud
that
we
would
win
in
a
court
case?
B
B
This
question
is
we
here
at
the
city
when
people
come
in,
you
know
make
a
conditioning's
permit,
or
even
any
of
the
permits
that
they
take
out
that
they're
supposed
to
fill
them
out
accurately
and
if
they,
you
know
like
people
who
fill
out
a
permit
for
I'm
drawing
a
blank
on
general
permits,
people
need
for
doing
yards
or
something
like
that.
We
expect
them
to
be
accurate
and
if
they're
purposely
misrepresenting
what
their
intent
is
to
entice.
A
D
that
was
you're,
also
you're,
also
asking
a
yes
or
no
question
and
then
stating
a
a
sentence
that
was
put
in
minutes
and
that
question
as
asked
by
that
council
member
on
that
council
meeting
was
answered
during
that
meeting.
So
I
don't
know
what
you
mean
when
you
say
yes
or
no
to
the
question.
The
question
was
asked
and
answered
at
that
meeting
and
it
is
not
despite
your
representations
tonight,
a
general
question.
It
is
clearly
asking
about
what
happened
on
july,
2nd
2012.
B
B
Because
the
question,
the
answer
to
the
question
did
not
answer
the
question.
It
was
a
general
question,
just
a
general
question:
is
it
fraud
and
then
the
answer
was,
he
probably
didn't
represent
the
building.
So
the
question
was
never
answered
in
2012
and
I
would
like
an
answer
now
so
that
we
move
forward.
Knowing
it
is
fraud
or
it's
not.
I
mean
if
we
as
a
city,
thinks
it's
okay,
that
someone
you
know
comes
in
and
gives
an
idea
of
what
they
plan
to
use.
But
you
know,
and
there's
data
showing
differently.
B
I
mean
is
that
our
city
is
moving
forward.
Are
we
okay
with
people
coming
forward
so
that
they
can
get
something
and
there's
examples
where,
for
instance,
in
saint
cloud
where
there
was
a
use
proposed?
And
somebody
on
the
commission
was
a
patron
of
a
facility
that
was
similar
and
specifically
said?
That
sounds
that
those
numbers
are
not
accurate
and
then
they
said
this
doesn't
fit.
You
you're
what
you're
proposing
doesn't
fit
the
spot
that
you're
choosing,
and
so
then
they
pulled
back.
B
So
in
saint
cloud
they
people
had
proposed
a
use,
use
the
number
200
somebody
on
the
commission.
The
planning
commission
said
that
number
200
is
not
what
I'm
aware
of,
and
then
the
people
pulled
back
because
you're
trying
to
get
the
right
fit.
You
know
that's
the
intent
of
the
whole
planning
commission
is
you
want
everything
to
work
appropriately.
B
A
Point
I
mean
ms
manderscheid
pointed
out
that
the
question
was
asked
and
answered
10
years
ago,
mr
verbruggy
offered
an
answer
again
with
context.
A
couple
of
different
times.
You've
asked
this
a
number
of
different
times
and
it's
been
answered
a
number
of
different
times.
I
suspect
you're
just
not
getting
the
answer
you
want,
and
so
that's
why
it
keeps
coming
up
and
we
keep
talking.
B
In
2012,
when
the
city
attorney
said
he
probably
didn't
represent,
the
building
does
not
answer
the
question
at
all.
Is
it
a
contract?
Is
it
the
cup?
Is
a
contract
asked
if
it's
fraud,
when
someone
makes
representations
to
entice
someone
to
make
a
contract,
and
they
don't
follow
through
with
what
they
promised.
E
Is
that
fraud?
Because
I
said
five
foot
by
feet
or
did
I
do
I?
Do
we
come
back
and
work
again
on
the
fact
that
hey
in
order
to
do
this
right,
I
had
to
build
it
a
different
way
and
we
adjust
the
conditional
use
permit
right,
which
is,
I
think,
the
normal
course
of
business.
I
wouldn't
call
it
fraud
right.
A
C
So
here's
here's
how
I
would
answer
that
and
the
way
that
I
would
answer
sally's
question
about.
You
know
if
just
the
general
question,
if
somebody
makes
misrepresentations
what
is
that-
and
this
is
in
no
way
trying
to
interpret
what
the
city
attorney
said
back
in
2012-
I
would
say
yes,
it
is
improper
for
somebody
to
make
misrepresentations
when
they
are
applying
for
any
sort
of
land
use
permission,
whether
it's
a
cup
or
anything
else.
C
I
would
be
unwilling
to
specifically
say
something
about
whether
it's
fraud
or
not,
because
it
gets
to
the
question
of
intent
so
to
council
member
d'alessandro's
comments,
we
have
mechanisms
for
taking
action
against
cops
or
other
things
that
have
been
granted
if
they
are
then
being
violated,
and
if
somebody
wants
to
allege
that
those
misrepresentations
are
intentional,
that's
a
whole
different
conversation,
but
fraud
has
very
specific
meanings,
both
in
a
civil
context
and
in
a
criminal
context.
F
Okay,
yeah
well,
and-
and
this
is
this-
is
to
that
point
so
couple
of
questions,
and
I
I
think
you
know-
and
I.
F
I
you
know,
I
think,
to
the
city
manager's
point
when
the
city
of
bloomington
states
something
or
is
or
is
not
something
that
you
know
we
we
can't
just
say
we
can't
just
call
something
fraud
and
say:
oh,
but
we
don't
mean
in
the
legal
definition
of
fraud
that
that's
not
how
this
works,
and
I
I
think
the
other
piece
to
this,
and
this
is,
I
think,
what
what
lona
was
getting
at
is
intent
and
from
what
I
heard
just
now,
the
city
manager,
you
know
said
clearly
we
cannot
infer
intent
from
something
that
occurred
a
decade
ago
and
it
sounded
to
me
perhaps
I
misunderstood
it
sounded
to
me,
like
you
did
in
for
intent,
because
I
heard
you
say
that
this
person
came
and
spoke
and
intentionally
misrepresented
what
they
were,
what
they
were
doing,
and
I
I
I
think
the
issue
is
that
we
cannot
infer,
let
alone
prove
intent
and
then
the
other
question
I
have
is
that
we're
going
to
wrap.
F
I
mean,
if
with
a
conditional
use,
permit
conditions
are
the
only
things
we
can
enforce
correct,
like
even
if
lona
comes
to
the
city
council
for
a
conditional
use,
permit
and
says
I'm
going
to
build
a
5
by
8
foot
pool
but
actually
builds
a
10
by
12
foot
pool
unless
the
5
by
eight
foot
pool
is
in
the
conditions,
there's
nothing.
The
city
could
do
to
actually
enforce
that.
Am
I
correct
in
that
understanding.
D
Mayor
members,
it's
a
little
bit
that's
a
little
bit
of
a
nuance
fact
pattern
and
typically
you
would
have
gone
in
for
approval
and
a
pool.
Wouldn't
really
I
mean
that
doesn't
really
fit
that.
E
D
Setback
that
would
be
a
more
common
or
or
you
wanted
to
put
a
garage.
I
mean
it
has
to
do
with
more
of
land
uses
not
like.
B
Can
I
answer
because
I
have
specifics,
for
instance
with
you
go
in
and
you
have
a
building
and
you
have
all
of
these
designated
spaces,
and
then
it
says
you
have
a
conditional
use
permit
for
these
uses.
If
you
have
any
changes,
the
city
has
to
approve
the
changes,
so
it
connects
your
plan
with
what
was
approved
so
they
are
connected.
B
But
the
only
thing
that's
filed
is
the
conditional
use
permit,
but
still
it
conditional
use
permit
says
if
you're
changing
anything,
you
have
to
come
to
the
city
to
get
approval
for
that
change,
so
somebody
who's
planning
on
a
five
by
eight
pool.
They
had
to
get
permission
before
they
change
the
to
make
it
larger.
So,
even
though
it
doesn't
say
bye-bye
pool,
in
might
not
say
five
by
eight
pool
in
the
document,
you
have
something
that
supports
what
the
city
apparently.
A
G
Okay
yeah,
so
I
want
to
ask
about
lost
at
another
time
because
it
seems
like
this
legislature
hasn't
acted
and
I
guess
I'll
wait
and
see
what
happens
with
that,
but
the
whole
and
I
apologize.
I
am
behind
on
lots
of
things,
so
I
haven't
finished
some
meetings
and
all
that
stuff
with
all
the
comments.
So
if
I'm
asking
something
that
didn't
you
finish
it
no
it's
on
my
list.
It's
recorded
the
multi-housing
criminal
background
check
deal
that
actually
got
passed
or
taken
away
right.
G
G
Why
is
it
a
good
idea
to
take
away
background?
I've
been
a
renter,
I've
been
a
landlord
and
I've
had
renters
in
my
house.
Believe
me,
I
did
background
checks
for
somebody
in
my
basement,
but
when
I
rented
out
a
condo
that
I
had
as
well
criminal
background,
I
used
a
service,
so
I
get
everything
legal.
You
know.
A
What
I
think
our
discussion
was
and
what
the
rationale
was
it's
background.
Checks
are
a
good
idea,
but
they
should
be
not
necessarily
required
by
the
city.
They
should
be
up
to
the
individual
rental
units
and
we
are
not
in
any
way
prohibiting.
That's
part
of
anybody
from
doing
a
background
check.
In
fact,
I'd
be
shocked
if
they
didn't
do
background
checks,
it's
just
that
the
city
in
our
city
code
in
our
ordinances.
We
do
not
require
that
any
longer.
We
don't
have
something
that
says
you
must
it's
just
that's.
G
Part
of
where
the
clarification
is
that
actually
I
just
had
a
long
lunch
with
jack
felica
this
afternoon
we
got
talking,
he
said.
Did
that
get
passed?
I'm
like.
I
can't
remember,
so.
Thank
you
for
clarifying
that.
Okay.
So
if
you
can
still
do
it,
it's
just
up
to
the
landlord
themselves
and
then
there
was
something
we're
taking
away
so
like
if
the
landlord
they
can't
be
held
liable
for
something
there
was
something
some
additional
thing.
It
seemed
on
that
in
our
penalty,
whatever
it
made,
okay.
A
G
G
Yeah
and
I
mean
well,
you
know
I
will
see
those
crime
reports
with
metal
blooming,
meadows
or
whatever,
and
there
are
certain
areas
that
have
a
lot
of
problems
and
stuff.
No,
then
I
was
trying
to
be
devil's
advocate,
and
maybe
this
isn't
why
you
just
want
the
city
out
of
it.
Is
that
it
exactly?
Okay,
if
the
thought
was
you
rent
out,
you
buy
a
house,
you
don't
have
to
pass
a
criminal
check.
You
know
that
I'm
aware
of
maybe
wells
fargo
did.
G
But
okay
and
then
you
were
thinking
I
didn't
know
if
you
guys
were
thinking.
If
you
can't
afford
a
house,
why
should
you
get
penalized,
but
that
is
important.
You
just
want
the
city
out
of
that
decision.
It.
A
Seemed
from
an
equity
perspective
from
a
city
process
perspective
just
from
the
way
ordinances
are
written,
it
just
seemed
to
make
more
sense,
so.
G
You
have
to
be
careful
what
questions
you
asked
and
everything,
and
if
you
can't
get
a
house
or
place
to
live
the
future,
isn't
too
bright
and
you're,
probably
not
going
to
live
a
good
legal
life
or
whatever
so
yeah
I
was
trying
to
decide
between.
Is
it
equity?
Maybe
if
it's
the
city
not
wasting
their
time.
G
F
G
E
We,
what
we
repealed
was
that
we
would
no
longer
start
revocation
procedures
for
the
landlord's
license,
based
on
tenants,
convictions
of
three
disorderly
behavior
or
nuisance
conduct
conditions
within
a
12-4
period,
so,
in
other
words,
we're
again
not
getting
involved
in
the
dispute
between
the
landlord
and
the
and
the
renter.
The
tenants
yeah.
That's
what
we
said.
The.
G
Okay,
thanks
yeah,
I
get
going
with
my
gardening
and
I've
got
piles
of
agendas
and
minutes
and
all
kinds
of
things
and
work.