City of Bloomington, MN City Council, 16 May 2022

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From YouTube: May 16, 2022 Bloomington City Council Meeting

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May 16, 2022 Bloomington Minnesota City Council Meeting

0:00:00 Start
00:01:05 1. Approval of Agenda
0:04:58 2.1 Proclamation: Public Works Week
0:08:40 2.2 Proclamation: Northwestern Health Sciences University Day
0:12:50 Consent Business
3.1 Resolution Authorizing Performance Measurement Reporting Program
3.2 Resolution and Budget Adjustment - Public Health Infrastructure Funds
3.3 Resolution to Award PMP Street Improvement Project Contract (2022-101)
0:13:40 3.4 Approve University of St. Thomas Engineering Senior Design Project Agreement
3.5 Resolution - Grant Agreement with MN Dept of Labor and Industry MNOSHA WSC: Safety Grant Program
3.6 State Financial Crimes Task Force JPA
3.7 Resolution Approving City of Bloomington and Hennepin County Construction Cooperative Agreement for Safety Improvements Hennepin County Project 2191600
3.8 Payroll Policy Revision Approval
0:17:39 3.9 Acknowledge Receipt of Charter Amendment Recommendations from the Charter Commission
3.10 Approval of City Council Meeting Minutes
0:21:27 4.1 Public Comment: South Loop Alternative Urban Areawide Review (AUAR) Update Report and Mitigation Plan
0:52:30 4.2 Public Hearing: Huset Pool Variance - 7981 Lea Circle - Change in Conditions
2:15:39 4.3 Public Hearing: Renewal of On-Sale and Sunday On-Sale Intoxicating Liquor Licenses
2:19:34 4.4 Public Hearing: Renewal of On-Sale and Sunday On-Sale Club Intoxicating Liquor Licenses
2:21:22 4.5 Public Hearing: Renewal of Off-Sale Intoxicating Liquor Licenses
2:22:26 4.6 Public Hearing: Renewal of On-Sale Wine Licenses
2:24:08 4.7 Public Hearing: Renewal of Brewer Taproom On-Sale and Small Brewer Off-Sale Licenses
2:28:22 4.8 Public Hearing: New On-Sale Intoxicating Liquor License Application – SpringHill Suites
2:29:54 4.9 Public Hearing: New On-Sale 3.2 Percent Malt Beverage License Application – El Fresco Restaurant
2:32:00 5.1 2023 Budget Update and Discussion
3:43:40 5.2 City Council Policy & Issue Update

A

Good evening, everyone and welcome, I would like to call this meeting of the bloomington city council to order thanks for joining us this evening. We're going to start this evening with the presentation of the colors. If you would please stand and join me in the presentation.

A

A

Thank you very much to the bloomington color guard for presenting our colors this evening. It is national police week we actually started the day with a very nice uh service out in the parking lot a salute to national police week, including the playing of taps and uh a rifle volley, and uh some very nice comments by chief booker t hodges. I don't see him over there, but did a very nice job as well. So um we have an agenda this evening.

A

That includes the following: we've got a couple of introductory items, a couple of proclamations and then our consent, business with council member carter presenting our consent business. We have uh nine things under hearings, resolutions and ordinances, count them nine. The first is a public comment regarding the self loop alternative urban area area-wide review, and then we have eight public hearings, ranging from a pool variance to a number of renewals for our on sale and off sale, intoxicating liquor licenses.

A

We then move into our organization of business. We've got uh we'll, have a lengthy discussion of our 2023 budget, update that uh actually we moved to this monday night from I think was last monday night. Whenever we decided to move it to a uh a better night to have this discussion and then our council policy and issues update council is there anything to add to the uh the agenda this evening?

A

If not, I would move our agenda for tonight, second and a motion in a second by council member lowman to accept tonight's agenda. Hearing no further council discussion. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries 7-0.

A

We have an agenda and under our agenda item, two is our introductory items and we have two proclamations and I am gonna head down to the podium for our two proclamations.

A

We need more humidity.

A

Our first proclamation tonight is for public works week, and I see we have a number of folks here in our audience. Why don't we all come on up and stand in behind me here, as I read the proclamation, including willie water, so.

A

You gotta get in the shot.

A

You gotta get a shot, look good, very good, so it is public works week this week, and this is a proclamation for public works week may 15 through the 21st 2022, whereas public works services provided in our community are an integral part of our residents everyday lives and whereas the support of an understanding and informed citizenry is vital to the efficient operation of public works systems and programs such as water, sewers, streets and highways park, maintenance, public buildings, solid waste collection and snow removal, and whereas the health, safety and comfort of this community greatly depends on these facilities and services, and whereas the quality and effectiveness of these facilities, as well as their planning, design and construction, is vitally dependent upon the efforts and skill of people in public works officials and whereas the efficiency of the qualified and dedicated dedicated personnel who staff public works departments is materially influenced by the people's attitude and understanding of the importance of the work they perform.

A

Now. Therefore, I mayor tim busse, do hereby proclaim the week of may 15th through the 21st.

B

A

As public works week in the city of bloomington, and I call upon all residents and civic organizations to acquaint themselves with the issues involved in providing our public works and to recognize the contributions which public works officials make every day to our health, safety, comfort and quality of life signed this day, the 16th of may 2022, we have with us from our public works staff, ellen b, alice emma struss, laura horner and amaris. We gahu did I pronounce that correctly.

A

I hope I did very good and, of course, willie water, so uh very happy to make this presentation and welcome you folks who wants to step up and say something about public works. Please ellen come on.

C

Well I'll just say a few quick words we're pleased to be there tonight and thank you for the nice proclamation public works week is a great time for us to celebrate the hard work that everybody in our department does and so we're pleased.

C

We were happy to have willie join us tonight, since he wasn't able to make it here for water week, so he thought he would come out and celebrate with us for public works week and we plan to do a little bit of celebrating this week and hope that all residents uh thank our staff for all of their good work.

A

Very good and can't thank you enough for the great work that you do and, as I read the services you provide, which the only time we really hear about these services is when they aren't done whether the snow isn't plowed or the water is not working, and thankfully, here in bloomington that happens. So very rarely so. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Congratulations on public works week. Thank you all. So very much for your work greatly appreciated.

A

Congratulations! Thank you. So very much thanks for being here tonight.

A

And our second proclamation is for northwestern health sciences university day and president deb bushway is here president and ceo of that's right of northwestern health sciences. Welcome thanks for being here tonight, good, to see you again very good to see you it's been far too long. Congratulations, I'm going to read the proclamation and turn the microphone over to you.

A

If I could, all right proclamation for northwestern health sciences university day may 19 2022, whereas in 1941 john b, wolf senior dc incorporated a new chiropractic college, with three students forming northwestern college of chiropractic in downtown minneapolis and whereas in 1983 northwestern moved to the current campus at 2501 west 84th street in bloomington, which was formerly home to penn junior high school and whereas in 1999 additional modalities were introduced and the institution became northwestern health sciences university and whereas northwestern health sciences university has grown significantly now with 8 500 graduates in 11 countries, 1 110, current students and 130 faculty members full and part-time across 11 program areas, and whereas northwestern health sciences university serves the bloomington community through education and clinical care and whereas in 2021 northwestern health sciences, university celebrated their 80-year anniversary, a public celebration which was delayed a year due to the pandemic, will be held on may 19th from 4 to 7 pm and whereas northwestern health sciences university is forward, focused and committed to building a brighter, more equitable future through in integratives healthcare.

A

A future only possible because of the strong history of leadership and innovation.

A

Now, therefore, I mayor tim bussie do hereby proclaim: may 19 2022 as northwestern health sciences university day in the city of bloomington, and call upon the people of bloomington to observe this day by recognizing individuals affiliated with the university in the past and in the present, including founders, students, staff, faculty, alumni providers, patients, donors, business partners and community members who continue to set an example to the residents, visitors and businesses of our city. As a premier health sciences, university dedicated to creating a healthier world dated this day, the 16th day of may 2022..

A

Congratulations, I'm sorry! It's a year late! We couldn't do this last year, it's disappointing! We I'm very happy for you. Please I'd like to turn over the microphone here. I.

D

Think you really said it all. Thank you. We really appreciate the support in bloomington. We've had a great partnership with the city, we're very appreciative of the long relationship we've had it's been wonderful for us. We get tremendous support from the city for all those invisible services. You talked about as well as other things, and so we love our location.

D

uh We, I guess I would remind you, we do have a clinic that serves people um the public. We have a couple of different clinics, but the one on campus is open to anyone and we do. We do take on a number of new kinds of academic programs, everything from medical assisting to radiation therapy.

D

So we have a range of allied health programs as well, but the key thing here is: if you're free thursday afternoon drop by, I think many some of you might have even gone to the building when you it was a junior high and so stop in and say hi, but thanks so much for your time. Thank you.

A

Thanks for being such a great community, member you've hosted our our veterans day. We.

D

C

Just in the past.

A

D

We can do that again this year. Absolutely yes, you've been such a fantastic.

A

Community member offering this proclamation.

C

Congratulations and we'll see you on thursday.

D

Thank you very much.

A

Next, up on our agenda is item three, our consent: business council member carter has tonight's consent agenda council, member carter. Thank.

E

You mayor so uh as of now I have holds from council member d'alessandro for item 3.4 and then council member coulter for 3.9. So I'll do one last call any other holds hearing none seeing none. I will move to approve items. Three point, one to three point: three items, three point: five to three point: eight and then item three point: ten.

F

A

Motion by council member carter seconded by council member lowman to accept tonight's consent business as stated hearing no further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye.

B

A

Motion carries 7-0 item 3.4 uh council member d'alessandro.

G

Thank you, mr mayor.

G

I was just really excited to hear a little bit more about this project. um It um I'm assuming it's another one of these great innovations from city staff, about how to go, find, uh support and and work with community members to to help us understand a little bit more. It's got two really interesting components. I thought both um of interest potentially to kind of community members, one the the alternative transportation opportunity to to review that for um for 35w and then uh and then the penn lake stuff.

G

So I don't know if anyone's here who can speak a little bit more to it, but I'd love to know what the um what the um I guess the relationship is with the engineering team, and then um you know, is this like an internship or is it more of a project or you know, are they paid like? How does it work? That'd, be great thanks, julie,.

A

Long is here to answer all those questions.

H

Good evening.

A

H

Mayor council, member d'alessandro, this is our first foray into partnering with the university of st thomas.

H

They have a fairly new civil engineering program, they've graduated their first class of civil engineers this year um and we have hired interns from them in the past.

H

They are looking for real-life example, projects that the students could take on for two semesters: either the summer fall or fall spring semester, and this project is proposed for their summer fall class, and it's why we combined two project areas together. One is the alternative transportation looking at a bike facility that would connect two of our new facilities, the bridge over the minnesota river and the orange line tunnel.

H

So in our alternative transportation plan there is a an alignment that got put in there, but who knows if that's the best alignment, so we want the students to look at alternatives to see if this is the best corridor, should it be three blocks east west? We don't know, um but because of the student size and the number of projects that st thomas doesn't currently have they're like. We think we need a project for five students instead of three students. So can you expand the scope?

H

um As council is aware, um the penn lake um area has uh some tmdl's total maximum daily load requirements, I'm going to throw a whole bunch of acronyms at you. I apologize in advance about that. Basically, we have a waste load allocation. That says we can only have 110 pounds and don't quote me on that number of pollutants in this area.

H

So we need to look at how we can maximize improving our stormwater quality in that area and because you're all familiar with the area, it's fairly well built out 35 w's to the east of it. You know: how are we going to do that? So we were thinking the students, could brainstorm different ideas and include that in the project.

G

Really cool: do you anticipate that they'll do a presentation uh for your you know, for your department or even for us on the outcome of their work.

H

um They have to prepare a report for school and they have to do a presentation whether or not they do a presentation, for you is still um to be determined.

G

I would love to see any results. I think.

A

It would be a good thing if they did a presentation to us that uh see if we can.

G

Make all right that'll be great. Thank you for your time appreciate you.

A

Any further questions councilmember councilmember, dallas android. We want to move this one. Then please.

G

I would let's, uh let's authorize the mayor and city manager to enter into an agreement with the university of st thomas for civil engineering project as part of their engineering senior design clinic class. Second,.

A

Motion by councilmember d'alessandro sent in by council member martin to accept item 3.4 in the consent, business. No further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion, carries 7-0 item 3.9 council member coulter.

I

Thank you mayor and I am going to apologize in advance for the coughing and hacking that is taking place tonight. I don't have copin. I promise you that um I just have a nasty nagging cloth. um I held this item partly because I know there's been some public interest in this. um This item just acknowledges that the city council has received uh recommendations from our charter commission related to uh various amendments that are coming forward and- and tonight obviously is not the public hearing.

I

This is not where we will make the decisions on these, um but I just wanted to sort of bring that to to folks attention, because I know there's always lots of interest when we talk about charter amendments um in particular, I wanted to point out. I know there's been some discussion um about one potential proposal related to how the city council discusses setting its own salary, and I did just want to point out that that particular recommendation- or there was no.

I

I guess I should say there was no recommendation related to that um that nothing is moving forward as far as a charter amendment uh related to how excuse me how the city council said its salary, um but that's also part of the reason that I wanted to bring this up, because I'm I'm disappointed that there is no recommendation regarding how the council sets its salary moving forward and I'm not referring to the specific was that was discussed.

I

I think I think it makes sense not to move forward with that right now in our city charter, our salary, as council members is stated specifically that it is a product of ordinance that the city council essentially sets its own salary and when we take a vote on things that affect us personally, financially, we are expected and in fact, as our city attorney would likely say, required by law to abstain, because it's a conflict of interest.

I

The one exception is our own salary as city council members- and I I understand legally it. It may not be a conflict of interest, but I think to most folks out there who understand who hear that it sure feels like one it it just it to me. It just does not seem like good policy for a number of reasons that the city council sets its own salary, and I've raised this issue with other council members. I raised this issue with staff.

I

I I think it is something that we should change within our charter. I you know I've worked through various various um ideas as to how to do that, and and perhaps unsurprisingly, they have not been workable, um but I I just want to urge us to continue thinking about this because it it there like.

I

I said there are just a number of reasons why I think it is not good policy that elected officials frankly set their own salary and it is disappointing to me that nothing is moving forward yet, and I will certainly accept you know the blame on that. But I just wanted to to air that issue publicly, because I think it is something even if it's not something that that folks think about on an everyday basis. I think it is important to how our legitimacy as a city council is is received by the community.

I

um So with that, I will move to acknowledge receipt of resolutions, 20 22 1c, 2022, 2c and 2022 3c from the charter commission, and to set public hearings on june 13th 2022 for each recommendation from the charter. Commission. Second motioned.

A

By council member coulter, second by council member loman to accept item 3.9 on the consent, business, no further council discussion on this hearing, none all those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion- carries 7-0. Thank you, council member carter.

A

Moving on to item 4 on our agenda is our hearings, resolutions and ordinances and our first item on this agenda. The portion is item 4.1, which is a public comment opportunity on our self-loop alternative urban area-wide review. It's uh acronym is a-u-a-r and we get an update and report and the mitigation plan julie, farnham. Our senior planner is here to present this for us and to lead us through this good evening. Ms farnham welcome.

J

Good evening, mayor and council, I've got a brief presentation which I will bring up right now,.

J

Are you able to see that.

A

We are able to see your your screen uh you're now in you also have the next slide screen up. So I think I think, if you go up to display settings, isn't it silly that I know how to do this now.

J

And swap presenter view.

A

There you go, uh no, uh no, I think it's the other one.

J

Okay, let me try that again.

A

There we go, is it working.

J

A

You did you fixed, it well done.

J

Okay, well, here we go okay. I am here to uh give the presentation to hopefully approve the um self loop alternative urban area-wide review update. So uh this is a substitute for individual eaws or eises. That would occur in the study area, which is essentially the south loop district, and it assesses the cumulative environmental impacts of development in this district, and it must be updated every five years to remain in effect, so what it is.

K

J

There's always confusion around environmental review and it does not initiate any specific development projects. It identifies anticipated future development and that's what is called the development scenario or that's the alternative. If you will, that is being reviewed in this environmental review process, it also does not approve or deny any specific development project any project- that's you know listed in here I mean quite frankly, these are forecasts.

J

The development scenario in the aur reflects projects that we know because they've been approved and they're actually built and those that we anticipate, some of which have had preliminary plan developments approved, and we have a pretty good sense and others that we base on uh forecasts and just our knowledge from talking to property owners and our developers of what we anticipate to happen in the area. So once a project actually materialized it'll have to go, come through our regular review process and be reviewed by the planning commission and the city council.

J

So the initial uh self-loop aur was uh adopted in 2002 and we had some very minor interim updates in 2009 and and 2012 that basically uh incorporated some infrastructure projects that had not been anticipated before in 2017. We did a very comprehensive update and updated the forecast in the whole development scenario, which I'll talk about a little bit more in a second, and this current update is really just a minor revision to that more comprehensive 2017 update.

J

So I wanted to put this in here to show you how things have changed since 2002. So on the left, you see the development scenario that was in the original aur and it had a five-year development outlook. Again the aur gets updated every five years, so they would add. I think the idea was that they would add new sites as they become more known in the 2017 update. We decided.

J

We were also working on the comp plan at the same time and the southwest district plan had been completed, etc, and so we had a pretty good sense of what full build might actually be here in the south loop. So we expanded the development scenario to include all the sites that we anticipate will redevelop over the next 20 to 25 years. So that's what you're, seeing in in the 2022 uh development scenario, which is essentially the same as 2017 there's just some minor tweaks to the gateway site and the apple tree site.

J

So this is the review process. This is laid out by the state, um it's very formal review process and on an update, um there's a 10-day review period uh well I'll, just step back for a second back in early or late february. Actually I was before the council and you released it the aur. The draft had been prepared. You released it to uh initiate the formal review process, so that happened back in february.

J

Then we go through this. We post it, the the environmental quality board, eqb posts it, and that starts the uh review, the official review period for an update it's 10 days. um The eqb also maintains the list of who reviews this, in terms of who you have to send a notice to and they're primarily state agencies and and regional agencies. So we send it up to all of those folks. We also uh have it at the library and I'll get into this a little bit more.

J

I guess I've got another slide to gets into this, but anyway it goes through the the initial review period. Where you know, if there are any comments, then we have to respond to the comments and return it back to um the official review list, and we did that so there's another 10 days for them to make any objections and we did not get any objections.

J

So the next step, then, is to um act on it tonight and if you approve it, it'll then be submitted to the eqb and that'll, be it for the next five years, unless there's a trigger and I'll get into that later.

J

So here is the outreach engagement that is required and what also that we did. In addition, so, as I mentioned, the eqb keeps the official distribution list we sent it to all of them. We put a notice in the newspaper we made copies available at the libraries and at city hall.

J

We went over and above that and we hosted a. It, was virtual. This time around a public informational meeting, we sent direct notices to uh people in the northern half of of the southwest district, the area that is really most impacted because all of the development sites are in the northern area of the south district.

J

We have the information on the website and we also had a let's talk: bloomington page created.

J

So we got a few comments during that uh agency review period. um No objections were filed, as I mentioned. Most of the comments were kind of technical details and really urging the city to go further. In some cases, which was, I thought, was good news. For instance, hennepin county was and uh mndot were both interested in um the city going further in terms of developing a bike network in the south loop district and also um providing um maybe a bigger buffer to the the bluff.

J

So those are things that you know as we start working on the self loop district plan update next year and also just individual projects. You know, if there's any roadway projects you know um hennepin, county and and mndot basically said you know we want to partner with you. So I saw that as good news, so we can uh hold them to that when we start actually getting into plans and actual projects.

J

So next step, as I said, assuming this is approved tonight, I will submit it to the eqb and that pretty much uh makes it good to go for the next five years. um Unless something happens, that would trigger an update, and so the trigger criteria here are if development is proposed that exceeds the aur scenario. That was analyzed if there's any a major change in public infrastructure, which would, with potentially negative impacts in the area.

J

Again, that was not analyzed or if the timing of public facilities changed in a way that would lead to increased or negative impacts or, if there's some kind of a significant change in the assumptions or an underestimation of the impacts.

J

So those are the the criteria that would trigger an interim update.

J

And so with that, I have in front of you a motion: should you care to use it? There is a resolution.

J

uh The the process is that the council would approve this by resolution, and so that would be the actual motion, and I'm also here to answer any questions before you take any action so I'll turn it back to you.

A

Thank you, ms farner, for the presentation uh very informative. As always uh one question. If just by chance there happened to be a, I don't know, let's say a world expo in that area. Would that be uh a trigger to change the aur.

J

It could be so what would have to happen so um the development scenario, as I understand uh the potential expo, would primarily occur on on the adjoining lands or or moa site uh phase three sites. So the aur does list that as a redevelopment site, and it has um it projects a certain amount, a fairly large amount of development on there. Now it may not be as large as what uh expo would would generate.

J

Likewise, an expo might generate some infrastructure improvements that perhaps are slated or were identified in the auar, but not to occur for later until you know that the area gets more to full development, and so that would be that trigger. That is, if you know, uh infrastructure happens in a time at a time that's much different than what was analyzed.

J

So what has to happen here is, should uh bloomington's bid be accepted. um The next step would be uh coming up with a plan, essentially a concept plan, at least or the expo, so that you could quantify how much development, what type of development, what kind of traffic or utility needs, are to support that um development that that the expo and then you would compare it to what was analyzed in the development scenario in the 2022 aur and if it exceeds what was presented in that in the aur, then that would trigger it.

J

J

And it gets a little bit um unclear, you know who who gets to decide how much you know if it really is bigger, you know, and if it gets close or whatever you know, it's really. It's the discretion is on the city, the rgu, to make that determination, um but I think it would be best to err on the side of caution and do an update.

J

uh You know if, if the expo would result in development that was as much or even just a little bit bigger than what the auar looked at, um I think it would be.

J

I mean that would be my suggestion. The update can be narrowly focused, so the update can doesn't have to be a wholesale update like we did this year and like we did in 2017, it could be primarily just to make changes that are needed to incorporate whatever development changes or infrastructure changes are specific to the expo.

J

A

That answer your question. Yes, it does. Thank you. Thank you, council, additional questions.

C

Councilmember martin.

L

uh Thank you mayor. I guess not so much a question, but I just want to uh to give a quick kudos. Thank you and your team so much for doing that optional information session over there. I know I get all kinds of questions about what's coming up in the neighborhood tons of development possibility- and I just think that's awesome- that we've got nine more folks over there that can share that reliable information with their neighbors.

L

So thank you for taking the time to do that.

J

Sure you're welcome.

A

Also any questions councilmember, alessandro.

G

Thank you mayor uh can, would you mind going back to the slide uh that had the triggers on it? I just had a question for you about those yeah. Thank you. So um I know um the mayor asked probably what I would have asked about the first one, which is whether or not there's a scenario that exceeds the authority here. I I'm curious about the change in public infrastructure.

G

um Do I don't know if that if this falls into that or not, but I know, we've talked about the um the uh riverview rail line proposal that is also in the works. It feels like that may may or may not trigger something here. I was curious about whether or not that was considered or since we know about it in advance um and then um whether or not there's a an assumption here.

G

I didn't see a whole lot in here about um the water park and specifically water utilization, and it seems like that would have been something that we might need to make major adjustments about. So I those would be the two things that either were. Are we waiting for them to trigger this, um or should we be paying attention to them now, given that we know that they probably will?

G

A

J

Yes, thank you, mr mayor uh councilmember, d'alessandro, um so with the water park.

J

So the aur does incorporate our most current utility uh models and uh infrastructure models that that we have, and so since the water park was essentially already approved or- um and it's been in the works for quite some time that is already incorporated into the.

J

The assumptions the development assumptions that are in the auar um so yeah any of the developments that we are aware of so the mall of america. You know we've got our we've got even a phase three plan. In fact, the the proposed development on the adjoining lands uh matches what was approved, I think in 2015, or was it 2017 that the mall came in and with their last preliminary plan, development that included um that site and and the most current development on that site?

J

At any rate, um the all of the infrastructure, water sewer roads are all up as up-to-date as we know right now, and so any project that has gone through preliminary or final development uh process or even things that we have knowledge of pretty good knowledge of, because we're in conversation with the property owner or a developer.

J

That was all included in our development assumptions, so that the development scenario assumes a certain amount of development, and so the water park has been part of the mall's plan development for a number of years now, so that that's all uh incorporated in here that's covered um to your point about the potential um realignment of the light rail. I think that's a that's a good example of a project that I think would trigger uh an update and that update could focus strictly on on that.

J

um As an example, I will say that I think it was the 2009 or maybe it was a 2012 update this, the sole project that triggered that update.

J

It was a 2012 update, the sole project that triggered that was the lowering of lindau, because when we updated in 2009, we hadn't anticipated that and then all of a sudden that became um a project that had some legs and and so we had to do an update for that single uh infrastructure project, and so that update was very narrowly focused on that infrastructure, likewise with um riverview corridor. If that changes the alignment of the blue line, um it could be a similar kind of thing.

J

Now that might happen in conjunction with uh an expo kind of a thing, for instance, so there might be multiple things that that would be happening at the same time that would would trigger.

J

So um I hope that answers your question.

G

Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Mr mayor, I would just ask: maybe we could um take offline I'd love to see the specifics about that, because um that would the implication of what I heard was that most likely the water impact information was in the 2017 update. Then, if that had been around for a while I'd love to just see the specifics, so maybe somebody can staff can point me to where I could see the difference between 2012 and 2015.

G

That is including those those impact. Analyses that'd be great. We'll do. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Council, any additional questions.

A

If not, this is an opportunity for public comment on the south loop alternative urban area review. um Is anyone in the council chamber wishing to speak to item 4.1 this evening.

A

Anyone nora do we have anyone online who wishes to speak to item 4.1 tonight.

C

As of the moment, there are no participants by phone line. So, mr mayor, you may proceed.

M

A

Thank you last call for anybody here in the chambers see no one coming forward. We've got nobody on line, so I will close the public comment portion of item 4.1 and ask council if you have any additional questions or clarifications that we need before we take action on this anything additional councilmember, d'alessandro.

G

Mr mayor, not so much a question or clarification, just uh I didn't know if we could do a little bit of a comment period here.

A

Absolutely that's right. That's.

G

A

This would be appropriate. Yes,.

G

Thank you appreciate that, um so I guess um I I want us to be. I saw in the documentation that we had. um We had made at least an attempt at of of acknowledging some of the the more ecological uh uh considerations. I know there was some. You know some of the analysis on the bluffs and uh the archaeological, the questions um I ice creak and the water considerations there, um I'm just I we don't have a sustainability strategic plan here as a council.

G

Yet right we have been talking about the the idea of creating a um uh leveling leveling up. If you will, um our uh you know are tracking towards uh sustainability and climate, um especially after declaring the emergency that we did etc.

G

I'm just not quite sure how do we have as a council the opportunity to come back and look at this between these five year five years or do we bring those up on an as needed basis, like I'm just trying to understand how, if we decide to take action before the end of this year around climate? um What how do? How does that trigger this, and, and should we be considering it now or do we feel like we've, got everything in there that we need to be as flexible as we can?

G

I'm just I'm pondering that question and I thought I'd, throw it out to the group in case. There's anybody else, who's maybe looked at this and have some comments on it.

A

Thanks and I would defer to uh to staff on this, but I I would just in looking at it. uh As I see the triggers, I mean the significant change in assumptions and or under estimation of impacts. I think that would fall into that. If there's a change of assumptions, if we develop some sort of climate or sustainability plan that will affect this in some way. I'm assuming it would trigger this as well and it would trigger it would open the discussion once again. uh Am I correct at that mrs farnham.

J

uh Mr mayor uh councilmember d'alessandro, um if, if we adopted a climate plan uh that would not trigger an update to the auar during the next update to the auar, you would reference that and whatever mitigation uh you know. If that climate plan has some mitigation measures in it, those would be incorporated into the mitigation plan, but it just adopting that plan does not trigger an update to the auar.

J

Neither would updating the south loop district plan trigger an update. To this. I mean part of the reason why these get updated every five years is to uh bring in all of those things that have happened uh in between the the updates, the the required updates. One of the things that's a little tricky with an aur compared to an eaw or an eis is an aur is not project specific.

J

So while we have square footages of development anticipated and we might know the type of development you know whether it's going to be hotel or office, I mean these are also forecasts right or they're, based on preliminary development plans that have been approved or entitled, but those can change once it gets to the final development plan. So it's not specific, and so we don't have, which was one of the challenges in the those two new sections that I incorporated here, which um were not required.

J

um I made the I guess executive decision to include those because come next year the state is going to require those two new sections for eaws and eises.

J

The guidance for aurs is yet to be determined um and it's a challenge to measure, for instance greenhouse gas uh emissions.

J

When you don't have specific project plan, you there's maybe a way that you can do it based on gross square footages and land use type, um but it's not nearly as accurate as if you know that you know, once you get to an actual development proposal, you have specifics and then you can.

J

You can measure things much more much more accurately. So that's one of the one of the kind of the downfalls of an aur is that you are assessing impacts based on a kind of a 30 000 up level view of of things and not at the at the specific development uh level, and that's why these triggers. So if a development proposal comes in, that's significantly different from what was anticipated, that triggers an update.

G

Think I understand my only comment there being that we we would. We would not necessarily want to let this stand and and, as a result, preempt any specific concern we might have as it relates to any changes we make in terms of our prioritization around climate or anything like that. It sounds like we have that flexibility on a on a development by development basis.

G

Is that fair? I.

A

J

Yes, mr mayor and uh councilmember d'alessandro: yes, so if we adopt a climate plan- and there are some requirements just like, if we adopted a new zoning ordinance- or you know some requirement for electric charging vehicle infrastructure or something like that- a development that comes through the door after those requirements have been adopted is going to have to meet those.

J

So the auar isn't going to affect that.

G

A

And I don't recall the auar getting in the way of developments in in the past. Just uh I think, as ms farnham said it just, it has more to do with it's the guide and it has more to do with the specifics that we set in in ordinance or requirements that we have.

G

Sure, as it is my first time reviewing one of these, I wasn't sure if it was in some way replacing um or it could be used as a as a way for lack of a better way to put it around like a specific environmental review or something to that effect since, uh but that that helps. Thank you appreciate it. Councilmember.

A

F

Yeah, thank you mary. I think you put it best and succinctly as possible and what I would say is now no, since we're having conversation about this would be another opportunity to talk about putting together a sustainable development plan um and really kind of keying.

F

In on that, and that's I mean it'd, probably be a step in between that climate uh piece, and then we can really guide and drive forward our our development, and so you know as we you look to our priorities for next year and as we continue to look at stuff at the sustainability commission, I know that I will again put that forward and also for this council, so that we can look at those things specifically to mayor. If there isn't anything else, I would love to go ahead and move this.

A

Anyone else have an additional comment: question on this.

A

I I just will say I think this will be a this could be what you just said, a great conversation at our upcoming strategic planning retreat. So unless there's anything else, councilmember lowman.

F

Mayor I move to approve a resolution adopting the south loop alternative urban area-wide review. Update report and mitigation plan is attached in this packet.

A

Second, motion by council member lowman, second by council member martin, to approve the resolution adopting the self loop south loop, alternative urban area-wide review, update report and mitigation plan. No further council discussion on this. All in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries 7-0 well, thank you very much uh julia. I understand this might be the last time we see you and I'm sorry to hear that retiring after after almost uh what a almost close to two decades here with the city of bloomington. Is that correct, 16 years?

A

Thank you so very much for your work. I think I I heard you present at least two comp plans, I believe to the council- and I know you worked on the district plans for uh penn american and normandale lake and south loop, and I know you worked quite a bit with the creative placemaking commission. So congratulations on your retirement. Thank you for your work for the city of bloomington and shaping the way the city of bloomington works and looks and and is right now. So thank you very well done.

J

Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure. I've had uh really I'm grateful for the opportunity to work on so many interesting projects really over these last 16 years and and having uh elected officials and and appointed commission members who have been so supportive and asked good questions and um keep us moving forward and and into new directions. So thank you.

A

We never lack for interesting projects around here. It seems so. Thank you. Congratulations enjoy it thanks. Thanks.

A

Up next on, our agenda is item 4.2, which is a public hearing this for a pool, variance it's 7981 leah circle. It's a change of conditions and uh mr johnson from our planning department is going to take us through this good evening.

N

Thank you, mayor, busse and good to see members of the city council, um tonight's application item 4.2 actually relates to a change of conditions of approval pertaining to do two different variance cases at one property, there's a fair amount of history that informs kind of how we got here tonight. So I'll. Take you through that the the leewood subdivision is in the northwest part of the city, uh so this is to the west of uh east or busch lake, road, east bush, lake, road and uh just south of 494..

N

um One thing I hope you gather from the image the aerial image here before you is that it's a heavily wooded subdivision. It's in one of the older neighborhoods it is developed mostly in the 60s. Some of the homes were built in the 70s, so a little bit of scattering in the years or ages of some of the homes around here there are six lots that are served by a private drive. You can see lee circle there in the middle of the the image.

N

This was formerly two residential lots that was subdivided and replated as six residential lots in 2001..

N

um It was uh had some unique characteristics and that it was served by a private drive and you'll notice and kind of the zoning history that follows it. A lot of that informs kind of some of the actions that have taken place. Since then.

N

One of the other features of the subdivision is that it is heavily wooded on the north side. There actually was a scenic easement on the north, five lots that was put in place at the time of plating. The subject lot before you this evening was the last home to be constructed in the subdivision and did involve a single-family dwelling setback. Variance to lee road, and one thing again just to note that relates to both of these variants cases is that for practical purposes, the kind of rear portion of the the home.

N

If you want to call it that the home is oriented towards the private drive, so technically, it's zoning front yard is the the rear of the dwelling. So that's what creates kind of these sticky uh zoning issues that we we confront with this with this property um yeah.

N

Let's keep going here so just to recalibrate someone, everyone on the board and members of the public on kind of what the rules of the game are so to speak as it relates to these two different actions. Again, two conditions of approval requested to be removed in two variants cases, so just for everybody's benefit of variants is a formal waiver to a zoning requirement.

N

It typically require follows some characteristic of a lot that is unique to that specific property. The the current test on the state, statutes and city codes is based on a practical difficulties test and required for the approval of any variance action.

N

The application must meet a number of findings and forgive me for all the text on this slide. I promise I don't have slides every slide full of text and that might be a little bit small, but I want to point your attention to the to one of the specific findings and just as a reminder in order to get variance approval, you have to meet all of the required findings. It's kind of a all or nothing type proposition.

N

The one finding as it relates to tonight's discussion from staff's perspective, has to do with the last finding. It has to do with the variants if granted will not alter the essential character of the locality so that by which becomes one of the tests. That staff does the analysis on this application this evening, and there is some additional city code language in the variant section of our city code.

N

It's actually in chapter two under the planning commission section, but what it has to do with it has to do with the conditions of approval that are applied to variances, that they must bear rough proportionality to the impact created by the variants. So when you're looking at any condition of approval that is connected or associated with a variance, that's kind of the test or the city code ordinance standard that has to be met for any conditions of approval that are attached to a variance getting to our next just calibration of concepts.

N

Here is the last one, but there is some discussion in this case about scenic easements. This is the definition of a scenic easement from city code. It is held by a governmental easement held by a governmental body in order to preserve the character of an existing landscape and topography.

N

It is a development tool that the city has utilized for a long period of time. If I had to guess, I think that, there's probably somewhere between 35 and 40, active scenic easements in bloomington, it is a tool that has been often been utilized down in the bluff before we had the bluff protection ordinance in order to protect sensitive areas down there, but in other portions of the city having to do with subdivision applications similar to kind of this area, even leading up to just individual property development applications.

N

Sometimes in the in relation to variances as well, uh so the very the scenic easements on the books today do vary. Some of them apply to multiple properties, kind of like the one on the north side of the leewood subdivision. There's five lots that that one applies to then you have the case of in this instance, where the this active scenic easement only applies to one property and again it followed as a condition of approval to a variance.

N

What are they used for mainly they're used for those three uh kind of concepts. One is tree. Protection certainly want to preserve, mature and significant trees, uh soil stabilization and kind of keeping steep slow slopes intact. That's an important one for the engineering division in terms of preventing landslide and other erosion type actions and then just general character or preservation of the existing character. If you find a heavily wooded area such as this one, you get a development application you might have seen in the past.

N

The city require a scenic easement in order to try and best maintain the character that was there previously or existing.

N

So the first variance action for this property. Again I mentioned that it was the last uh single-family uh dwelling built in this uh six lot subdivision.

N

It was the only uh lot that faced its uh technical frontage was lee road, the others uh fronted on forest glen and the original variance that was approved for this property was in 2003. It was to reduce the prevailing front setback from 65 to 50 feet. So you can see that 50 foot marker on that slide that that's by which the the porch you can see on the north side of the home, butted up to that 50-foot setback so prevailing front setback, something that is on the books for older residential lots in bloomington.

N

In this case, they reduced that to 50 feet in order to provide a building pad for the home associated. With this case, there is two conditions of approval attached to that variance that are relevant to this instance.

N

I'll pull those up on the screen again more text, but the first condition condition three had to do with requiring a 30-foot scenic easement. So that was something that was established in 2003 and the fourth condition had to do with requiring a variety of spruce and pine trees in order to help screen and buffer the property. What you'll find oftentimes in applications like this, particularly for some of the neighboring residents or property owners. They want to see some of that screening kind of just mitigating what the impact of the the reduced setback was.

N

A note about the scenic easement in this case is that, unfortunately, it was failed to be recorded, so it was not recorded against the property in air so moving on there, but so this application seeks to remove these older conditions of approval. These conditions were effectively replaced by last year's variance case in practicality, but in order to clear the books or make it a clean slate type of thing, the applicant would seek to remove these conditions as well.

N

So moving forward to last year's case, the resident first came in contact with planning staff to investigate some of the trees on their lot. They became aware of the scenic easement and some of the restrictions they're in about restrictions on tree removal. So, to their credit, they did work with or consult with the city.

N

The city forester on the removal of some trees located within the easement, and the reason for that was is that some of the trees that were planted uh following that 2003 action were in poor health uh were not doing well, and so he did consult with the city forester before removing some of those trees.

N

What followed that in this, what led to a variance application that was reviewed and processed last year had to do with the desire to construct a swimming pool and getting back to that concept about lee road really being technically. The zoning front yard of this property swimming pools are not allowed to be in the front yard of a property according to our zoning code. So that's what informed that action and was approved by the city council on the consent agenda.

N

I think in april of uh I might have the month slightly off, but in last year this project has since been uh completed. What you see before you uh again kind of building off that original history of the property staff carried that same concept of dealing of trying to maintain the essential character of the neighborhood, those two prior conditions of approval having to do with scenic easement and landscaping. Staff carry that forward to this action in order to mitigate the further additional development.

N

If you will and what you see before you hear- is kind of what resulted it's a revised scenic easement, that's 22 feet in width, kind of butting up to the the decking of the pool and then two rows of plantings and two rows of plantings were recommended by staff and the purpose being. If you look in our screening section, this is pretty consistent when you're utilizing plantings and trees as a way to screen and buffer.

N

uh The two rows is much more effective than one one simply because it fills in the gaps that the the first row of plantings do not, and it adds depth uh to the screen and buffer and in this case, there's a little bit of elevation as well. uh The eastern row of the trees would be a little bit higher so again just providing a larger screen and buffer there I'll talk about that in the next slide.

N

This is the two conditions of approval that related to last year's case that I mentioned again. This application seeks to remove these conditions of approval, so just in summary, to make it clear what is being asked for it's removing of the scenic, easement and landscaping conditions associated with both cases. Hopefully, that is clear.

N

This is the project that resulted. It was constructed last year um in terms of kind of the some of the things that we're talking about are just some to kind of set uh where we're at here. I don't. You probably can't see my cursor very well, but this area up on the high side of the retaining wall. That's currently a grass area, that's where, in effect, if you were looking at the previous slide of the landscape plan, that's where that second row of plantings would be located.

N

If that helps set kind of set some context there. So there's the project completed, you can see some of the plantings that were installed by the property owner on the low side of the wall and we'll talk about those a little bit.

N

The applicant actually provided a revised landscape plan of the material that he installed last fall, and so it's a mix of maple trees and spruce to his credit, he did install larger maple trees than just the typical minimum planting size. So I think these are five inch caliber maple trees. You can see they are a little bit larger and in the summer months, when they have leaf on conditions, certainly do provide some screening and buffering.

N

One other point I want to make on this slide is that, as you know, along the front yard of all of our most of our properties in bloomington residential, we do have a 10 foot, easement area that includes drainage and utility easements, as well as sidewalk bikeway easements. We use those easements for a number of different types of infrastructure and other improvement projects.

N

I'll talk a little bit more about that in a second here's, just some comparative photos that were in the staff report, this just kind of gives you an idea of what the prior condition was. So you can see on the 2013 slide, and some of these images are provided by the applicants, some from google street view, but you can see when the previous evergreen trees were mature and they they grew up. Obviously it provided a fairly good screen and again just getting back to kind of that maintaining of the essential character idea as well.

N

This is kind of facing the more southern direction in the same eastern way, but from the other side of the property. Now this is more stark contrast, because obviously the street view in this case was taken in a winter condition, but just to note that you know when having another well I'll, get to that in a minute yeah, I don't mean it for it to be so stark because the winter leaf off conditions, but I just wanted to provide at least that perspective from that direction.

N

So staff did did perform some analysis of this application. uh In terms of uh kind of how we evaluated it, we're not supportive of the application for two primary reasons.

N

First of all, the test by which there's not formal findings in a change of condition application, but the formal findings by which we're kind of evaluating it again dates back to that. The required findings for variants.

N

In this case, the one that is the most relevant from staff's perspective, has to do with the the project will not impact the essential character of the locality, and so clearly there is a well-established history, a with the adoptions of the conditions of approval in o3, which were committed to the neighborhood at that point, but then again just carrying those same conditions of approval forward in last year's action.

N

All of those actions are intended to maintain the essential character of the locality, so screening and buffering certainly provides tries to help maintain that wooded road edge that you see is so common for that residential neighborhood uh and the like. The other thing. The second reason that uh staff I mentioned, uh the presence of the drainage and utility easement and the sidewalk bikeway easement. Now that uh particular right-of-way, because lee road is a narrower road, it was constructed in the woods trying to minimize disruption.

N

That's a 24 foot wide road, I believe, and so the the boulevard on their side of the property is larger than a typical single-family home. On the south side, it's about 13 feet. I think at the north point of the property, it is 20 feet, so it is a larger buffer or a larger boulevard. The only the reason that that's relevant is kind of. How would we view the possibility of actually having to remove any material that was recently planted for a city, utility project or sidewalk project?

N

Whatever the case may be, it is less likely on the basis of the boulevard being larger. That's true, but that being said, those easements are kept in perpetuity because 10 years from now 20 years from now, we don't know what city staff we don't know what the priorities of the city will be in terms of extending sidewalks, for example, or doing other projects, and those easements are always kept and utilized for the purpose of future infrastructure projects.

N

So I can't stand here and make a promise that, on the basis of the boulevard being larger, that those trees would never need to be removed ever in their future in order to construct a public improvement yeah. So one of the I failed to mention this during the approved landscape plan.

N

But again, one of the additional benefits of having two rows of plantings in the approved plan was a recognition that the first row was located within those easements so that, if they ever had to be removed, there would be material that was installed behind them to continue to serve that buffer purpose.

N

Finally, the last thing I'll say from the staff analysis side of things is that full-on removal of all of the scenic easement and landscaping conditions. I I've spent a good deal of time working with this resident applicant. I find him to be a great guy and good to work with, but that does not preclude him or any owner in the future.

N

From ever removing that material. There would never be there's not a con, an active condition of approval that would preclude that at all, and then you would be left with a completely wide open, uh a completely wide open um character or vantage of the home, so that provides feedback on the staff analysis side of things we haven't received any public correspondence on this application.

N

I will know the applicant is here, I think, and does plan to make a few remarks and the other thing I'll say about the only other thing relevant about public correspondence is he did submit some petitions and survey information? Hopefully you saw that in your packet, but that did provide some uh feedback from the neighborhood. So with that I'll stand for questions.

A

Very good, thank you, mr johnson questions of mr johnson and then we'll have the applicant come up and talk questions council, member carter, then council, member below council, member carter,.

E

Thank you mayor. um Thank you, mr johnson. I have a question that um maybe I missed something in the packet and so it's maybe it's silly, but the project is complete. Correct.

N

That's correct calls forward.

E

So, even if we, if we were to deny tonight or you know, be.

K

E

Of the staff's recommendation, what would be the consequences of that like? Would he have to remove trees.

N

Yeah mayor bussey, councilmember carter, no, he would not have to remove any trees. He could update the landscape plan uh in his case to reflect the material that he's already installed.

N

The consequences, if you will would be that he would have to establish that second row of plantings and that the scenic easement would remain valid and in place, meaning it's kind of a no touch. Leave it wild as the material continues to uh mature.

E

And that would be kind of up on that top part right, correct, yep, okay, but the trees and the bushes on the bottom would stay as they are even.

N

Though they're.

E

In the right of way,.

N

That's correct, yep.

E

Okay. um Okay, that's all my questions now. Thank you for clarifying. I felt kind of like a silly question, but I'm like am I understanding this quickly, so thank you.

A

Let's remember a little.

F

Bit, thank you mayor. There are. There are no silly, this questions member's opinion. um If uh we were to if this council were to uh remove the the the two requirements that are there um and uh let's say the trees were removed at some future uh period.

F

Point of time would that change the uh uh you know in terms of that locality, piece that we talk about um in terms of that that standard within that neighborhood or is there a threshold that you have to get to where you have so many properties that are within that that wooded character characterization, where you get to a point where okay, now we've kind of tipped the balance? So now it doesn't make sense to kind of have the these standards that we have for that area. Does that make sense in terms of what I'm asking.

N

I think so uh mayor uh councilmember lohmann, um I mean to be fair. The variance processes can be more of an art than a science sometimes, and I think that to a degree you know some of the analysis that you do on every required finding to a degree can be subjective.

N

um You know that being said, I think it's to staff and staff's judgment. The way that we see what is kind of defining the essential character in this neighborhood has to do with its wooded nature.

N

Now, in fairness to the to the lee wood, to these six lots, whenever you have six lots that are constructed in 2000 versus homes that are built in the 50s and 60s, it's very hard to match that character. Right you're, going to cut down some trees to create some building pads you're going to do some grading et cetera, et cetera.

N

But I think that's why you see some of these conditions put forth is that it's really trying to recreate or restore uh what the essential character of the neighborhood is and kind of in line with that spirit.

F

So then, in that to lead to the next piece, so in terms of looking at this, should I be looking at this in terms of five six properties with you know, with respect to uh uh you know to this this requirement that we've got around the wooded uh piece, or should I be looking at this five plus.

N

One yeah mayor, councilmember malone. I think you should just be analyzing it with this individual a lot. The other lots do have a scenic easement. They were part of the same planning process, but it was a separate action that created the scenic easement. In this case, there is some slightly different characteristics of the western side of this lot versus the northern side of the others. That may or may not be relevant to that discussion, but yeah.

N

I think you should be solely focused on this property and the analysis by which you're kind of making your decision is. um You know, are these conditions necessary to maintain the essential character of the neighborhood or are they not? I mean that's really kind of if I'm trying to put it in the simplest of approach or yes or no terms.

F

Thanks just two real quick more here and we talk about practical difficulty, um I noticed, as we were looking at this I was it wasn't clear to me. I wasn't here when you know when they did this originally uh where's the backyard of this guy I mean or the the backyard. uh When I look at this, this property.

N

Yeah, mayor councilmember, loehmann, good question so yeah and I think what what you, what you see, uh that zoning conundrum that I identified in the beginning of the presentation has to do with that very issue and that's why staff and the hearing, examiner and ultimately, council approving the variants recognizes that practical difficulty. So there's the practical difficulty. What are the? What is the characteristics of this lot that make it unique and why is it a challenge from a zoning perspective?

N

Why can't they enjoy this property like a typical single-family residential lot and then there's the maintenance of the essential character piece, and I think it's that that latter, finding that you're, seeing some of those conditions of approval that were attached in 2003 and 2019 or excuse me 2021 that are more tied to the central character piece than the practical difficulties uh piece. If that makes sense,.

F

And so, when I'm thinking about the practical difficulty that has to do with the variance, not with the historical, uh that's so the scenic uh preservation right that has to do with the the variance piece of it. Not the uh can I I'll come back to that later when we get into our discussion. uh My final piece here um that I just want to make sure that I I understand it um the failure to record.

F

How am I to look at that in terms of um uh you know both the variance and this, the the what we've got before us here as a council.

N

Yeah good question mayor councilmember, lohman lowman, I don't know how it was handled back then so stipulate to that. That was you know, 19 years ago or so on. Most in the case of most easement city staff would follow and pursue the recording of certain documents. That's not always the case with development nowadays, with our current policies and procedures, there's site development agreements, there's other types of easements and agreements that the developer or the applicant is required to record and provide proof of recording uh at minimum.

N

You know a staff level involvement would have been receiving that proof of recording, even if uh the the developer owner in this case was anthony eden homes was the applicant of the original uh variants, who was the developer of the subdivision, but where it got lost in the I can't pin down anybody. I can't find anybody who is names on the staff report kind of thing who is involved so.

F

Should I should I consider that at all, or is that just that's just a fact of the case move on.

N

uh Mayor councilmember lowman, from my perspective, the easement was established where the purpose, whether it was recorded or not, does that does that eliminate the essential purpose of it? I don't think it does, but you know that's kind of up to your own analysis.

A

Councilmember d'alessandro and then councilmember nelson councilmember d'alessandro.

G

um Thank you. um I I think it um um I think, I'd like you to move to the one of the pictures of the side-by-side pictures, not the one with the winter.

G

Thanks so um this was in 2013. This is in 2021 right, okay, um so there are trees that go all the way to the road who belongs to those trees.

N

Yeah, americans.

G

From adults all.

N

G

Who do those trees belong to sorry tree.

N

G

N

uh Marry councilman d'alessandro uh at some point, typically like if I'm thinking about the midpoint of this property 18 feet behind the curb or so if the tree is within, that boundary would be in public right away and it would be the city's tree.

N

I know some trees were removed from the public right away. My understanding is that they consulted with the city forester on some of that work. So it is a city tree, but I think some of them. You know in the case where you have a tree that may or may not pose a hazard to a house. For example, the city forester might be called out. If he concurs with the homeowner's concern, then maybe they would work to remove it or work on that.

N

But yes, along the roadway, it's a city tree at which point the front bound behind the front boundary it's the residence tree. So.

G

So I guess where I'm looking at with this it- and I know that then the pictures aren't exactly in the same angle. But to me it doesn't look like aside from the stuff, that's close to the road. It doesn't look to me like it's materially different, meaning you have all of this green space in the front right. It was there prior there's, no there's no forestry, characterization or characteristic in that area. Right um was that done, because the city required that to be vacant like it is.

N

Yeah mayor councilmember d'alessandro: this is another area of this case where we don't have perfect record keeping and so from talking to some staff who may have been in and around the arena of of this at that time, but didn't work specifically on this case. I think there was some expectation on the part of the developer that they would have that they maintain more trees in that scenic area, scenic easement area than they did, and so I think that's where the first fundamental problem occurred in fairness to the current residents.

N

There was other encroachments into that easement area previously that went unnoticed by staff or city officials. So you know that's that's part of the story. I'm certainly not uh denying that um but yeah. I think that's kind of where some of the um mix-up is a little bit.

G

Okay and- and so um when I look at this picture, um what I'm, what I'm, maybe I maybe I can't see it in the 2021 picture, but um are you can you are you able to articulate for me if you needed to put a sidewalk? I and I I understand, let's look at our current sidewalk requirements if it was a 20 foot wide sidewalk. That would be a different conversation.

G

I understand that, but in this particular case um it seems to me that the majority of the trees that you would take out the city might have to take out. um They they've been they've, they've, been kind of cleaned out and they're actually set back further now than they were in this 2013 picture. Is that a fair characterization? Am I looking at that I mean, would you take out more trees just to put a sidewalk in it looks to me like there's a lot of room.

G

Is I guess what I'm saying, but I obviously I'm not an engineer, and I don't know what I'm looking at here.

N

Yeah mayor counts for del center. That's a perfect time to say that I'm not an engineer either and uh um you're correct. I know that public works. You know, first and foremost, attempts to save trees. The city engineer is here too: she wants to speak to it, uh but there's other projects other than just sidewalks. I guess yeah.

G

H

That's fair, mr mayor councilmember d'allesandro. That area also has a slope.

M

H

In order to put in the sidewalk, it is possible that we would need to either remove the trees, install a retaining wall or grade out into that easement area. So without doing the actual design, I can't say what we're going to remove and the other thing I think, I'd point out with that green space. This easement for the scenic easement is weird in the aspect that it's only 150 feet long. It doesn't include this grass space that was always intended to be grass space. I don't know how that came about either yeah.

G

Okay, thank you. I appreciate it. I I'm I'm looking at this and I'm struck by um why that isn't the concern when it comes to the the the requirements for uh wooded areas, it seems like mowed grass is like the antithesis of wooded areas to me. So I'm just curious about that. Thank you appreciate it.

A

Councilmember nelson.

O

Yeah, thank you mayor um just a few, hopefully quick questions, um so I think anyone looking at this property looks at this as the backyard, and I think you dealt with that a little bit. What would the normal standards for a backyard be? What would the setback be? What would be the requirements for screening on a backyard anywhere else in the city.

N

Yeah. Thank you for that question. Mayor councilmember, nelson. I'm going to pull up the approved plan again because it helps kind of get to that a little bit, so uh a pool setback. If this the way that the variants dealt with this is we kind of envisioned it like. It was a through lot so on a through lot. You've got public streets on both sides of the lot and then, when you have a through lot, uh the the rear yard uh setback for a swimming pool would be 30 feet.

N

I forget what the specific the applicant might be able to tell me, but what the specific dimension of the decking is: there's a different setback for the pool deck versus the water itself, just to get into more nuance, um but the pool deck is at a 22 foot setback, so it was a little bit of uh um dear john deere. Well, he'll he'll maybe fill us in later when he speaks.

N

But uh the point being is that the intent there was to try and mirror as much as closely as possible what the setback requirement was for a through lot. I don't recall if they made it or if they didn't make it. I forget what that width of the deck is on the west side, uh there five foot, so that that means the pool is set back 27 feet and that matches my recollection that it was not just the front yard issue. It was also a modest setback, variance as well, okay and then.

O

um But the pool part is already approved. What would the requirements be for the landscaping? Are there any screening requirements normally in a backyard for people to put trees or anything else? There.

N

Yeah mayor councilman nelson, there typically would not be requests not required to screen a swimming pool.

N

That being said, it's not uncommon to attach screening conditions of approval associated with a variance application. Okay,.

O

All right, thank you and then the it looked like. There were three main concerns um with the scenic easement uh tree protection. How many trees were there previously and how many trees are there now.

N

Yeah, that's a mayor, counselor nelson, that's a good question. um I forget the exact number of trees that were installed. Unfortunately, again. um There's one thing I can communicate to you tonight is that we are doing a fantastic job with our record, keeping in terms of our zoning case files, but I was not able to locate the approved landscape plan in 2003 and again getting back to my point about. I think that there was some expectation of more tree preservation in that area.

N

That was not followed through that's more anecdotal, but uh leave that as it may, in terms of the number of trees that were actually planted again, the applicant might be able to shed some light, but I think there was probably something like eight trees: okay, seven, okay, seven.

O

And others, if I understand correctly 13., that's correct, okay, yep and then the second issue that was raised was uh the slopes and that are there any concerns about erosion based on what is there right now.

N

Again, uh stipulating I'm not an engineer, but I would say no correct. Okay,.

O

Okay and so then the last issue which you've spoke to quite extensively as the character of it is, would it enough? Is it would it as much as was expected? Is it the right type or you know, is it in the right alignment to make that work? So I think that seems to be the essential issue. If I'm understanding it correctly.

N

There's two: I guess if I may um there's two comments I would make to that- is that again with a single row of plantings, if some of those plantings are removed for any reason, you're losing that with no backup, there's no uh backstop there, and the second issue is concentrating the same amount of material in one strip versus two strips.

N

If you will in easy terms, it does create the potential for some of that material to get crowded over time, as it all begins to mature and grow into one another, and I think that was one of the issues actually, that uh informed some of the poor tree health for the trees that were removed is that they were planted too close together and ultimately got crowded out. Okay,.

O

Makes sense, um I think I have other questions here so do we have any projects with regards to sidewalks bark, barks, bikeways utilities or anything else in those easements within our cip? Our alternative transportation plans or any other city plans that we see I mean, because I know those are pretty far out looking. Do we see anything coming down the pipeline for those? I.

N

Don't believe so, no, okay answers no okay,.

D

N

I was double I was confirming with double.

D

O

um Last question I have, and- and hopefully I don't get the homeowner in trouble here- but um what about the fence? It seems to be the in that area too. Yes,.

N

So mayor bussey kalper nelson, there was for both the retaining wall that was constructed in the approved plans and the fencing uh there was a exception in the scenic easement that those structures were kind of uh pushed along in. I don't want to use the term grandfathered in because it's a separate concept, but they were allowed to be there by exception, uh with the hope that the rest of it would become wooded and natural over time. Okay,.

O

N

C

Thank you, council additional questions, council member coulter. Thank you mayor.

I

um I just want to uh make sure I understand this correctly, so if we were, if, um if we were to uh remove these conditions and that that's actually that's the very picture, I want excuse me sorry um so right now, it's it's just that lower row of of um trees. I don't know what other term I was looking for there. um If we were to remove these conditions, then then my understanding is that there there would be then no requirement for any kind of trees to be located in in that scenic easement.

I

Am I correct on that mayor.

N

Councilman coulter that's correct, recognizing that 13 trees have been planted, but the city has no authority to regulate what happens to them in the future. That.

I

Yeah and that- and that was my follow-up question, then- is that that this um this this variance that um this language stays with the land correct? So so you know if in at some future date, this property is sold and and redeveloped in whatever manner or just some there. There would be no requirement that there would be that kind of those kind of trees. There are any trees for that matter. Mayor council, right, culture, that's correct! Okay, thank you. Just wanted to clarify that.

A

Council, if there's nothing additional, maybe we'll bring the applicant up and hear what he has to say. Thank you, mr johnson.

B

I don't have a powerpoint presentation, but I'm going to stutter and stammer my way through this.

A

You can officially identify yourself for the record, so we have it and we'll go from there.

B

Sean husett owner of 7981 lee circle.

E

B

uh When my wife and I bought the house in 2017, we were unaware about the 30-foot scenic easement, because the paperwork was never filed with the court in 2003.. We also did not know our backyard was owned as our front yard. Only after months of working with city planning did we find out about these issues. Had we known, we probably wouldn't have bought the property or moved to bloomington. That being said, we love our house. We love our pool project, how it turned out, and we love our community.

B

We are asking to complete our 2021 variants and have a clear title like we did when we purchased it in 2017., our variance was approved um april 19th, 2021 by city council. We received a call from nick johnson on june 1st 2021 at 8 30 that our 2003 variants was never recorded into a hennepin county courthouse.

B

This was the same day that north star tree service had just cut down all of our trees at seven am that morning. At this point we had started our project put down payments with our pool contractor landscaper and subcontractors. We felt pressured by the city to add the scenic easement to our mortgage and title company. If we did not sign the scenic easement on june 3rd, we would not be able to get our pool permit and risk losing our down payments and delaying our project another year.

B

This is the reason we did not know about the scenic easement when buying the house or until we later inquired about the landscaping project. Our home essentially did not have a recorded scene achievement from 2003 to 2021..

B

With regard to the scenic easement, the city talks about essential character of the neighborhood being wooded, but if the trees come down from a storm, get cut down by a homeowner or get diseased or die on lee road homeowners are not required to replant. Only we are the six homes on circle. Development are the only ones on lee road to have a scenic use and are held to a higher standard. There are also a few lots.

B

The city owns further downward lee road with little to no trees on the property adhering to the wooded lee road standard.

B

This project started in 2020 because the seven trees that were planted as part of the 2003 variants were diseased and dying because they were planted too close and not maintained by the previous homeowner in 2003. We understand that the neighborhood was not supportive of the contractor building six homes, but on page 114 city council agenda packet pertaining to the 2003 variants, then city senior, planner, bob hop baker said, and I quote: five to eight trees is the appropriate number, but ten foot height is not. He said. Tall mature, evergreen trees probably would not do well.

B

A smaller three to eight foot tree will grow faster and have a better chance of survival.

B

He would not suggest planting arborvitaes for the in this area. End quote referring to how many trees are needed in the scenic easement, but in 2021, when the neighborhood was supportive of our project. 13 trees are now required. In 2021 I went up and down door to door on lee road and talked to all the homeowners about removing the scenic easement and got support for our project. I received 40 homeowner signatures in support.

B

That is all the homes on lee road, except for two one was out of town and later called and said he would support us. The other was under construction owned by the contractor city planning states that 13 trees are located in the drainage and utility easement, which is true, but the city owns 14 to 18 feet to the north, expanding to from the curb to the fence. All the utilities are located on city property, three to four foot from the curb, not 20 foot east, on our property.

B

I also asked her in one of the webex meetings about paying for and planting and maintaining additional trees in the city property and was denied by the engineering department.

B

The six trees that were proposed on the to be planted on the wall were one maple, two ornamental direct jack dwarf, pear trees and three arbor vitaes recommended by city planning again on page 114 of the agenda packet, referring to the 2003 variants, bob hope baker, states, and I quote as far as arborvitae. It does not tolerate climate well, end quote and from personal experience, deer love to eat our current arborvitaes, which does not grow back and destroys the trees.

B

At one point, city planting wanted 16 trees replaced from our seven trees that we cut down. Then there was talk of 10 trees. Then we agreed to 13 trees.

B

Planting of the tree locations was the most difficult part of our project. We got to a place with nick that we thought would work for our project.

B

This was our first landscape and pool project, and we ran into some unexpected issues that we did not plan for with our discussions with city planning planning on planting on the top of the wall, risk damage to our main sprinkler line that connects the north side of our sprinkler zones to the south side of the sprinkler zones and also risk damage to the underground pool supply lines and the electrical wires.

B

We felt, along with our pool contractor and our landscaper, that 13 trees on the lower wall would offer the best coverage for privacy and not damage our pool and sprinkler system in the future.

B

In closing, we have a one-year-old daughter and a four-year-old son. I have 60 years left to earn my bloomington city pension, we're not planning on moving or selling for the next 20 years. We want privacy just as much as our neighbors as much as I spent on the trees. I will not cut them down if they disease or die. I will replace them, I'm hoping to replace the trees without meeting with city planning, city managers and city council to decide species shape or tree size. Thank you for your time.

A

Thank you much uh appreciate it and appreciate you coming forward and continuing this discussion. I'm sure some folks have some questions here on all of this. um The first take away that I had uh you starting the treatment removal at 7am. I bet you were real popular that day in the neighborhood. They.

B

A

They were quick, good, good good. uh I appreciate that you've been working back and forth with staff on this and tried to work through all this, and actually it's a it's a good looking project. I think you've done a nice job with it, uh but you were when when they, when we talked about this last time- and I remember when this came before the council previously and realizing that the scenic easement hadn't been filed and we were trying to move things along and I think there was a deadline.

A

If I wasn't, if I'm not mistaken- and so I think the council was very supportive of the project at that time um and I'm pretty sure with the um the requirements that were there, I mean you knew that there was going to be that number of trees that were required that that's what the the conditions were.

A

That's what was stipulated right and everybody kind of agreed to that when, when we had that meeting and it kind of went forward and when you made the decision to reduce that number of trees, so 13 were required and you planted how many 13 13. How many were originally the.

B

13. so originally before we moved in, there were seven there.

A

So you planted 13., I did, I see I saw 13 trees planted there right, okay, but I'm actually adding one more to the south side. So I was mistaken. I thought there was fewer than the thirteen that we were. No. We planted all.

B

Thirteen we're just on the lower level, I'm a lower.

A

B

Got it got it, I miss it consulting with our landscape designer. He said that would offer better privacy and better screening, which, ultimately, what the synagogue.

A

Was for got it, I misunderstood that I thought it was 13 and you reduce that number to get them on the lower level and make sure everything fits in we planted all 13. understood. I appreciate that um that that was going to be a question that I had do. Others have questions here on council, member martin and councilmember loma councilmember martin.

L

um uh Again, thank you for this information in the email you sent um in terms of removing those disease trees because they were planted too close together with the 13 all now on. One road did your landscape designer have concerns about the crowding out. He did not.

B

um Because there are two different varieties: one's a maple and one is a blue spruce, so one's gonna be higher up wants to be lower, um the other seven that were planted. There were all pine trees and were very acidic and were never really taken care of, and so basically they all grew together and and died. Okay.

L

And in just a brief follow-up to that, does um staff verify a report like that from the landscape uh designer to say? Yes, this makes sense. It's just kind of two different sets of information about tree health here in terms of shadows and long-term viability of the shorter plants.

L

Those to me- or I guess, that's- maybe more- to staff- I guess, has that been verified. Do we? uh I don't know.

N

The information wasn't the packet from the landscape designer. I don't believe it's been reviewed by dave hansen, for example our city forester, to verify the kind of design criteria that you're talking about. Okay, thank.

L

You for that I appreciate it. Okay,.

A

Councilman lowman.

F

Two questions for you. um The second row uh was there a reason why? Because I know on the landscaping plan that that staff during the last variance uh piece had laid out there were two rows. uh Why just go with the one row as opposed to following with the the second row, so.

B

When we initially discussed this, we got to that area where we could live with that. Our main sprinkler line ran a lot lower to the ground, and so they had to bring it above the wall. So basically it runs the entire way of that nine foot between the retain wall and the pool right down the middle so that we have an issue with roots getting into the sprinkler systems that connect the north side to our south side. Also, when this was our first landscaping project, I didn't know that there was going to be electrical wires.

B

Underneath going to the pumps I didn't know, there was going to be intake pvc pipes underneath there. So by the time you do that then you're, just cramming more stuff into one little area and so down the road I didn't want to have issues with my pool that I spent a bunch of money on that roots are getting into just to put trees in.

F

Makes sense so I just wanted to be sure I overheard, because I thought I thought you said um during your presentation uh that bob haubacher, who used to be the planning manager um here at the city, had recommended five to eight.

B

If you look at the variants for 2003 that was in the agenda packet, I pulled that directly from there that was his quotes. I believe there was one of the two of the neighbors in the backyard or behind us front yard backyard.

B

Were there as well talking about it, and so he recommended not doing arborvitaes because they're not conducive to the area, and he thought five to seven was a good number to have on there and that's.

F

Going to be a question, I want to ask staff when you're done. I just want to verify that that I heard that correctly. I thought I read that, but I just wanted to be sure that I heard that so sure.

B

And part of our our issue when we were kind of going back and forth, we thought it was difficult that you know we stepped ahead, that we had seven trees, but then they wanted us to do 16 trees in those smaller area we didn't want to have to every 10 years, cut down the trees replant because they're not surviving.

B

C

You, council, member coulter,.

I

Thank you, marin. I'm sorry! I know this is time to be to ask questions of the applicant, but nick, could you come back up just a quick question. I just want to make sure I'm something's not clicking here for me and am am I correct in understanding that so this I mean this. This image right here is essentially the landscaping plant, the landscaping as it exists currently and in in order for that I mean in order, do we need to remove these conditions in order for that?

I

To I don't know what the word is that in order for that to conform with city requirements and all of that.

N

uh Mayor uh councilmember coulter, I think this exhibit, or this plan that was submitted, is more just for reference purposes. It wouldn't be uh the the owner or the resident, wouldn't be uh tied to this plan for perpetuity if the conditions are removed, it's more for information purposes to demonstrate and show that this is what was planted.

N

I

Okay, so, and- and then just a quick follow-up to that, am I correct in understanding I mean I, I understand that the sort of the expectation was the two rows, but there is nothing in that variance or anything that is that requires that. Am I correct in that.

N

uh Mayor councilman coulter, that's not correct. The current condition uh does include language about evenly or distributed on the upper and lower wall, so that kind of infers or implies that there'll be two rows of plantings. And then the plan that was approved as part of the case fall prior to the pool permit being issued reflects that as well.

I

Okay, okay, thank you and that that I appreciate that, because that problem gets it at. Why something I wanted to ask so um so there are these the the conditions related to the two rows of trees, and I mean I get why you don't want to do two rows of trees.

I

I my parents had a pool growing up and I know all the pipes and all of that I guess my my question excuse me is so you're also asking that we eliminate this scenic easement, and I I guess it's not it's not clear to me what what is the purpose of eliminating the scenic easement I mean I get. You don't have plans to cut down the trees anyway, but that's the part that I'm not understanding.

B

um Basically, when we bought the property in 2017, it wasn't recorded under, we didn't know about it and now adding that on there 20 years from now, it may be a bigger deal for resale and with the language just to take that off. I figured it'd just be a clean way to have a clean title and be done with our variants and complete it with the city.

I

I

Okay, I think that's all the questions I have for now. Thank you.

C

Councilmember carter.

E

Thank you mayor and just a point of clarity. You said in your statement that no other houses in the area, except for those that were built as part of this new little subdivision, have the scenic easements correct. Even though it's all wooded area, a woody woodsy neighborhood, your six houses are the only ones that have the scenic easements correct.

B

Okay and over the last 20 years, there's we've had a lot of storm damage. We lose trees all the time we have overhead wires. So anytime a tree falls down. We lose power, um it's been thinning and thinning, but again, yes, we're the only ones that are obligated to replant.

E

Got it? Thank you.

C

Councilmember alessandro.

G

Is uh I think you might have just answered my question so I'll just confirm the the the requirement to have the scenic easement puts you you responsible for replacing trees? Should they be damaged? Is that the main is that the main challenge correct.

B

um You know this whole process has been very difficult just with the requirements of the lot and stuff that happened before we even purchased it. You know if a tree should die. I I don't want to have to go to nick all the time and say nick we have to take this tree out. Get the city forester out there to look at it then plant one, that's this high! This I'd rather just take care of it and maintain my yard.

B

I take great pride in my front yard backyard, make sure everything's mowed looking good, and you know I think we can make it look great.

G

um Point point of note: when I visited the property, I I think shawn was out there mowing the part. That's not even his out there. That's a grass then looks like a putting green, and I don't know why. But okay, um uh uh the other piece of that, then, is just a point of clarification. You're, because your backyard front yard concept is on lee road. You are literally the only ro, the only house on lee road that has required a scenic easement.

G

Is that correct, correct and that goes 40 houses, 50 houses, something like that right, correct, okay, thanks.

C

Can't sell anything additional.

A

Very good: do you have a seat we're going to open the public hearing, we'll see if anybody has any additional questions or comments, and we make it back to you here shortly. Thank you for.

B

A

So we've heard from the applicant now we've heard from the the staff report as well I'd like to open the public hearing at item 4.2. This is uh regarding the pool variants at 7981 leah circle and it's a for the change of conditions for anyone here in the council chambers who wishes to speak to item 4.2.

A

Don't see anyone coming forward nora, do we have anyone on the phone who wishes to speak to item 4.2.

G

Again, mr mayor, and still no participants at this time via phone line, he may continue.

A

Thank you last call for anybody in the council chambers seeing no one coming forward council. I would look for a motion to close the public hearing on item 4.2, so moved second motioned by council member loman, second by council member d'alessandro to close the public hearing on item 4.2.

A

No further council discussion. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion, carries 7-0, so council discussion on this. um The question are the question is on the the two conditions of approval, the the total of 13 trees, the question of whether or not evenly distributed, and then I think, um a more relevant question. The revised scenic easement, the scenic easement that is in place now. Do we keep that in place? Should we move that council, member lowman.

F

Well, I just had one one question of staff about that that scenic piece and what I just wanted to understand is: will there be any impact at all or legal consequences of granting a full variance and removal of that scenic easement to this property that we're looking at to other uh properties that have that scenic uh um requirement? That's out there, those other five that are in that area and then the other I think you mentioned nick 40, other properties that are that are out there, roughly or so those pieces.

F

So I'm just I'm curious um about that.

N

Yeah mayor councilmember lohman, as I noted in my earlier remarks, I would estimate that there's you know 35 of these documents around town. Some of them apply to one single property like in this case. Some of them apply to multiple properties.

N

In you know a wide variety of geographic areas around the city- and you know there isn't a exact slope number or an exact number of trees or the age of the trees. uh Really it was done on a case-by-case basis, taking into into the um analysis the local characteristics and criteria of the site they were looking at or the area I should say so. As far as what the implications are. um You know this singular one versus others.

N

I think it. I think it depends on uh what your guidance and findings would be for the removal. Should you pursue that action versus uh what are the differences in these other scenic easements around town, the 35 others? So you know to approve this change of condition.

N

I think what staff would guide you is that what the analysis you're performing is that that action would not uh would not uh prevent or would not kind of, um I'm kind of blanking on what the right word is, but they would not, in other words, apply to all those other easements that are around town. Forgive me. I had a big word to us.

F

No problem, and so what I what I just want to be clear that I hear I'm hearing what you're saying here is that this this uh one area is kind of in and of itself its own, and since that scenic uh uh slope requirement, the scenic protection is not. You know other than just this property and the five properties, not generally in the rest of that area, uh that this is really we're. Just looking at this property in and of itself, I.

N

Think yeah tonight's action. I would guide you that the analysis you're making is specific to this scenic easement. Only any other action that the city council would take on any other scenic easement in the city would involve its own individual set of analysis and circumstances that would be presented to you as to why or why not it's appropriate to keep it to remove it or whatever the case.

F

I appreciate that mayor with. That being said, um I guess the problem that I run into is when we look at this whole scenic piece here. It is strange to me that only six properties in this entire area, if, if we as the city, say that this is important to uh uh protect uh this particular idea that only six properties uh have this.

F

This just really doesn't make sense to me, and- and I think this ought to be the beginning of removing all of this uh in the entire area, um to remove that, uh because if, if we only see that these six need it, um but yet we don't have that requirement for the rest of the area, um and it's wooded that to me really doesn't make any sense at all um and then in terms- and I think that's what we're just talking having a conversation about right now, right and I'll stop there then.

A

Councilmember alessandro and then council member carter,.

G

I just have a nick, I'm sorry. Can I ask you to come back. Thank you, mr mayor. I um uh let's say we remove the uh these uh um requirements at.

G

What's what's left for the property owner to do with the city, uh is there are there more fees? Are there more? Is there more paperwork like what what's the what's the follow-up? Let's you know if uh if we do approve um the vacation of these things, um what what what's next.

N

Yeah mary councilmember d'alessandro, so typical of any development project. This is only a single family, home of course, but with all development projects that have a required landscaping component, we collect a landscaping, surety, uh basically, a bond that ensures that the material gets planted and then it's healthy for a certain period of time, and then we release it back to the owner. So the owner has submitted the surety uh in the value of the 13 trees that was required by the case.

N

If the condition or the requirement gets removed, the city could just return that surety to them, and then that would be kind of excuse me the end of the um the end of the ride so to speak.

G

Okay, so there's there's no expectation, we collect any more fees or anything like that from the property owner.

N

I you know, I only work in one department division, but I hesitate to say I think, that's correct. Okay,.

A

N

If I point of just a quick statement- uh counselor element, I don't mean to rebut anything you mentioned in your previous statement, but one thing I would just add for your consideration, as opposed to all of the scenic easements all around town and when they were added. I think in some cases to say, there's no scenic easements in the neighborhood. Sometimes that's more of a characteristic or reflection of when those homes were built and planted and subdivided versus whether or not it was appropriate or not.

N

It met the criteria or not of a scenic easement, so I think I think different eras of bloomington development. Some have had more scenic easements. Some have had less put it that way, and I don't mean that in any disrespectful way, it's just just a comment. Councilmember.

A

E

Thank you mayor, um so I just want to make sure that we're really clear we are not voting on removing the scenic easement tonight we are voting to change the conditions of approval. If they want to remove the scenic easement, then they have to submit an application for that right. That's.

N

Correct mayor, uh councilman carter, thank you for that point of clarification. There is a formal application by which uh easements are removed, so if you're removing it, you deal with it all the time. The public hearing is the last one minute and that's a drainage and utility easement here x.

N

He would they would have to go through that same process and there would be a fee associated with that process. Technically now that I think of it, um but there's also a public hearing requirement associated to that. So uh in discussion and discussing with staff, it made sense to hold off on doing that formal part of it until after the conditions were uh acted upon by council.

E

Okay, I would I was going to start my comments, but I know that it's related well.

G

If you don't mind on your question, councilmember carter, you're, concentrating.

A

On a quick one,.

G

Yeah, just um so the easement hasn't been recorded, but he would have to apply to remove an easement that was never recorded. The partnership.

N

The 22 foot wide easement, reflecting last year's case, has been recorded. Okay, understood, thank you.

A

That's my recorder.

E

Great thank you, um so I guess when I think about the two conditions that are related one to the essential character of the neighborhood, um you know. I guess I would argue in my mind that he um met that requirement by planting 13 trees, even though they're not in the exact location- and I completely understand his concerns of putting in them on that top level. um You know his concerns related to his own utilities, the sprinkler system and the pool infrastructure.

E

So I guess for me I'm not really swayed by that argument. um I also feel like it's a little bit more subjective, which is makes it more challenging.

E

um So so that's my perspective on that and then related to the right-of-way, uh because he does have a larger bowl of art or because there is a larger boulevard there. The city has a larger bowl over there and that and there are already trees there and there are no anticipated projects. I'm not super concerned about that at this time, and so I plan actually not to support the staff's recommendation and to let this project live on, as is I think it would be.

E

um You know I can't imagine the feeling of being required to plant trees in an area on my property, where I know it's gonna damage infrastructure that I've spent thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars on, and so I think in this case, although I understand staff's perspective and staff's analysis, um I do want to be as supportive as possible to this homeowner and really appreciate all of the um effort and resources that he's already put into his home. It looks beautiful um and and he's done, a great job, and so that's my position.

A

Thank you, councilmember martin councilmember coulter. uh Thank.

L

You mayor um yeah, I'm along the same lines of thought, but I also come back to that kind of top level standard of maintaining characteristic of the neighborhood, and I see a whole lot of signatures from everybody else. In the neighborhood saying what he's got is pretty much there. This makes sense to us uh and that's the neighborhood, so I guess I I don't want to dictate to them what they think their their character is uh in.

L

On top of that, my my one concern here that I guess didn't get quite clarified um with regards to potentially squeezing that many trees of different heights on and concerns about, shading and the health of the shorter trees.

L

Considering it sounds like our team and dave hansen didn't have a chance to verify that the shorter trees are going to do poorly over the long term. All I have to go on is the landscape, architect and I'm saying sure, go ahead and do it uh that that doesn't seem to be a real concern either so um yeah I'd say pretty similar. Let them roll with it.

C

That's remember culture. Thank you, mayor.

I

What's interesting, I you know, as I sat here listening to to staff and the applicant and excuse me excuse me, I honestly, I went back and forth on this multiple times and it's um it's one of those things where I say it's really interesting and my my wife's like that's, not very interesting, but um it you know because to my mind, I I sort of came into this thinking.

I

I mean this. This was you know, and these were the the conditions that were agreed to that that were adopted by the city council and, and all of that, and I so you know, to my mind I think well, there has to be a pretty compelling reason to remove these these conditions, and you know to to be honest: I'm I'm not thinking about it. That way, I I can't necessarily say that these are particularly compelling reasons to make those changes.

I

But then I thought about it, some more because you know I I think, to the point that council member martin made just now if the purpose is maintaining the characteristics and of the neighborhood who better to decide that than the folks who live in the neighborhood, and I mean you know, we all know.

I

Sometimes you go out and you survey neighbors and- and maybe they don't want to. You- know, offend someone or whatever.

I

But it I mean it, it still seems to me to be uh have been a pretty positive reception in in that area, and I think you know the other piece to me and I you know I I think to nick's point. I I get that how you know how we enforce maintaining that sort of essential characteristic of the neighborhood has changed.

I

You know clearly, when a number of those older houses were built built, they did not use scenic easements to enforce that um and that they did on these six houses and- and that certainly may not be an indication of whether or not a scenic easement is the right choice.

I

But I think at a certain point we have to say that we should try to be consistent, and I I think if we are going to say that this wooded characteristic of that neighborhood is important. It needs to be enforced as sort of universally as possible in in the same way as universally as possible. So, to my mind, either we use a scenic easement or we don't- and I just have a hard time saying well, if the, if that's the character, the character of this neighborhood, but that that scenic easement only exists on six properties.

I

That to me does not seem like an effective way to enforce that that for lack of a better term, so I you know, I've been going back and forth on this and it it.

I

It just seems to me that the conditions being what they are, the reality being what it is- and I I the last piece I would say you know I was- I am concerned about the potential removal of those trees in, for whatever reason I mean we can't predict the future, we don't know where sidewalks are going to go or what happens next right.

I

So I am, I am concerned about that, but I think that again, that goes back to if we're going to use the scenic easement for that purpose to to ensure that essential character of the neighborhood, then we should probably do that on more than six properties which we have not. um So I I like, I said I I went back and forth on this and I I at the end of the day I I think it does make sense to remove these conditions.

I

So I and I respect the work that that staff has done and I I think um staff did in full honesty. I think staff did their jobs. I think they they, you know they. They worked consistent with with um what you know they they feel they have. They should do according to city code and all of that, um but I just think it makes more sense to go in a different direction, so I will not be supporting staff recommendation.

A

I appreciate everybody's input on my two cents on this, um and I I know a little bit about you, know, trees and pools and backyards and plantings, and so on. You've all seen my backyard. You know, we've put it together. uh I I think the uh the condition four. Regarding the trees, I think, frankly, I think staggering them is a better idea. Long term, I I agree, the colorado blue spruce can grow to 50 feet tall pretty quickly. I've got three in my front yard that are growing out of control.

A

I never have enough christmas lights anymore to fill those darn things, uh so I think that might be an issue, but at the same time the trees are in. I would not in any way advocate digging them up or moving them, or that kind of thing I get that at the same time, the fifth condition I think there is value in maintaining the scenic easement for the, for the simple reason that it is indeed there it was put there at some point for a reason and with the additional properties uh joining it it.

A

It creates a scenic easement. It creates a buffer on the road, and I get that and I understand why it was there and what it does. I think more than anything is is provides a little bit of control if the trees should die if there, if there's storm damage and if it's not the current owner, if it's a future owner that decides, you know what I kind of like the extra sunlight or I don't want to do.

A

You know, don't want to replace those trees, then that that scenic easement, though, that that tree line that cover is lost, and um so I'd I'd almost be in favor of splitting the baby here perhaps saying that uh leaving uh removing condition four but maintaining condition five to maintain the scenic easement, I think, would be my my preference in all of this.

C

Councilmember carter.

E

Thank you mayor. um I'm sorry that confuses me, because I thought we were not voting on the scene, whether or not to remove the scenic easement.

A

uh We're voting on these conditions to do this, so by maintaining the condition it maintains the scenic easement. If we well.

E

The scenic easement would still be in place, though, even if we did, we voted to remove both conditions. Correct or my this. The scenic easement would still be there.

A

I would look to staff to answer that and clarify that, for us.

N

Mayor bussey, uh to clarify the there is a condition of approval on both variances one from 2003 one from last year that require a scene, easement and so the first step to relinquish or to remove. That document is to change the condition, because otherwise the condition runs with the land is still applicable.

N

And then should you choose to go that path, then the the applicant could then file a formal application to legally remove the easement in an action. What's called an easement vacation.

A

So it doesn't remove the the scenic easement. If we do this tonight, it doesn't remove the equipment, it just removes one layer of requirement or the.

N

Conditions of a condition.

A

N

With the variances that were improved.

E

Yes, that's what I was understanding. Okay,.

A

E

When you made your comments, I was like wait a second I'm not sure. I understand then, okay, so I am clear now. Thank you. I saw.

A

Councilmember nelson with a question then councilman conspirator, nelson.

O

Yeah, thank you mayor. um First of all, nick thank you for your work and I totally understand where your recommendation is coming from based on the current rules, and you know, I think this body has a little bit more discretion to change the rules and that's our role, and you know I appreciate the thoughtfulness you did here. I do want to find a way to to make this work out for the homeowners um and uh because uh jamie and um city manager wasn't here.

O

I thought I'd try to do a thing where I tried to make a compromise, but mayor bussey beat me to it so, um but in my mind I was wondering if it might make more sense to keep four but just reword it so that they were 13 and if we kept that condition, would they need to maintain those, because it sounds like the homeowner's totally willing to maintain those. And so then you know in 20 25 years. If they did move um that the next homeowner would still need to maintain those trees.

O

And then you know go through the process as uh council member carter was talking about of removing that scenic easement over time. I didn't know if that was workable to make sure we protect those trees for the long term, so yeah, no, please you've got you're on top of it. Council member carter.

E

If we did that, though, my understanding would be that he would be required to put trees in that top on that upper layer.

O

And I agree with that, which is why my recommendation is to change the language to make it evenly on the one layer, just change the language to meet. What is there and be done with it, so that that that would have to be maintained into the future by by himself which he already said he was willing to do, but another homeowner would need to do that as well, and then we can sidestep the scenic easement issue, because I I'll be honest in terms of scenic easements.

O

I think that's a much better thing to have through the deed and not through a city thing. I mean, if you're going to set up a neighborhood and you want to have that type of character. You should put it as a deed restriction and that's, in my opinion, a more appropriate process for that type of thing.

A

So I would look to uh to staff both uh planning and legal and ask uh if, if we did try to split it, I mean would what would be more applicable?

A

What would be what would um provide a longer-term um guarantee that it's basically going to be tree-lined and and what we're trying to accomplish here, which would be which would guarantee it better, uh maintaining uh condition four and specifying the 13 trees or maintaining condition five regarding the scenic easement, or neither I mean I that that's still an option too we're just trying to figure out what would be best if we tried to find a compromise here, thoughts.

N

Attorney zuniga, would you like me to take a first stab and you can clean up the mess on afterwards?

N

um Our our city's legal staff has trained other departments, but planning in particular, because we deal with a lot of development applications that you're taking action on the application in front of you, so any uh you're either approving that application or you're denying that application. Any revision to it's not like you're, adding a new condition of approval to a planned development, for example, where you have discretion about changing the language or the particulars any.

N

I would be curious of his perspective, but I think if you were going this route of the compromise or revision, I think it would necessitate some uh participation or of the applicant. um So just that perspective, um as far as uh if I was tracking you correctly councilman nelson, I think you were saying: remove the scenic, easement condition, but just and then amend the landscaping condition to just require 13 trees. Is that correct.

N

O

N

From a protection standpoint, I guess this is where planning staff would uh be the right uh person to ask um from a protection standpoint. uh A scenic easement is better. uh It's written. It's a! It follows the not that variances don't, but uh it's recorded against the deed.

N

Ideally, and it's a no touch zone, it explicitly says signed by the the property owner, I'm not allowed to remove these trees or build structures, or this that or the other thing in this area as far as landscape conditions, as you know, when we review other properties for development, we look at their approved landscape plan on file and that's at those formal times we look at what the status of their landscaping is, but that can be for some properties only once every five or every 10 years.

N

Whatever the case may be, so I would say that we do. We do evaluate it for zoning letters you're, typically not getting uh zoning compliance, letters on single family homes versus commercial and industrial developments, so we do know if there's missing landscaping on an approved plan for those other properties, but suffice to say that you know just tracking an approved landscape plan staff is not doing an annual inspection of every property of their landscaping, but for zoning compliance, letters and other development actions. If that makes sense,.

A

Councilmember d'alessandro.

G

Thank you, mr mayor. I'm um I'm struggling. I appreciate everybody's work on this. I know that this is the end of a very long road that folks have been on together, and I I totally appreciate that, and I want to. I want to commend everybody for I'll. Tell you you know some people uh would have gotten really frustrated by now and so credit to the homeowner and to the departments that everybody's maintained even keel, and you know cooperative attitude um since we're all we're doing right now is is vacating these two conditions of approval.

G

I don't feel like it changes the outcome to just go ahead and vacate these two uh conditions, um one it doesn't remove the actual scenic easement uh and two um uh the. um If I understand correctly, the planning manager still has to go through and approve the landscape plan.

G

No it it. It says here a variety of species, as approved by the planning manager. Did that not happen, or did it already happen.

N

It yeah, forgive me uh mayor, councilman d'alessandro, so it did happen already and what the application before you would do this evening is just remove the landscaping conditions altogether, so that that plan is uh basically defunct or um no longer relevant.

G

The the the one, the one that's in the I understand what you're saying uh now: okay, so you're saying, um because we said earlier that the landscape architect has said that the trees and everything are good, but we haven't seen them in plan. Is there so this this installed landscaping plan that you have in front of you here was not was not a was not reviewed by the planning department.

N

At all, it was yeah. Forgive me mayor, councilman delson. It was reviewed in so much as it was a a data point or an attachment that informs gives the council information as to what trees were planted. The removal of the landscaping condition altogether does not buy the property on an ongoing basis to any landscaping requirement. So it's it's this plan, that's on your screen here is really for information purposes uh documenting what was installed as of uh 2022..

N

G

um So as part of the as part of what would happen next, let's say we vacate these, then here's where I'm going to it seems to me that there's plenty of time for the city to continue to weigh in on this, including up into us coming through with the public hearing and potentially denying their removal of the scenic agent. This is um materiality to me not more than um making sure that what the homeowner has in place is. Actually, you know on the books invalid.

G

um If that's the case, then, if we all like it- and we all think it works, it seems to me like there should be no reason for us not to approve it.

A

Let's remember nelson and then councilmember lowman, please.

O

Thank you mayor. I um honestly I support removing both conditions as well. I was just looking for a way to do that. um That seemed consistent with what I heard from the homeowner in terms of his intention of maintaining that the reality is, I think the screening is there to protect the homeowner. I don't think it's there to protect the street.

O

um So it's um you know, they're gonna, maintain that you know you want a private backyard for your kid and family to swim, and I think they're going to take care of that. So I'm comfortable removing it. I don't have a problem with that. I just you know if the homeowner was willing to maintain those trees and agree to that, and there was a way to do that consistent with the good work staff did.

O

I was open to that as well, but it sounds like we've got, maybe a pathway to do that as well through the scenic easement. Maybe some further conversations about if there's modifications to protect that for future homeowners, that may not be as diligent as the current ones, councilmember lowman.

F

Well mayor, it appears I'm with you on this, uh because the issue I find myself on this one is that you know if I support the idea of removing this scenic easement. um What about the other five houses uh that are out there as well? So um I I think that that I can't I can't support you know this change here without looking at those other uh looking at those other five uh properties. So I'm gonna find myself stuck uh uh with you on that it kind of seems like we got.

F

You know I mean I'm kind of counting those as we got five two, so I don't know. I think that mayor we had a uh you know. I mean I'm certainly not going to move this, but maybe one of the other five here gotta go ahead and and move this thing.

A

I think I think we are to the point I don't know if everything's been said, but everybody's already said it. So it's uh um uh if there's anyone who wanted to make uh motion action.

A

uh Mr who said you something to add here. Please come on.

B

Up um one last thing: that's not in any of this stuff, but when we we notice afterwards after we sign the scenic easement, it technically says on there, it's a no mo no sprinkler area. So all that area, that's green, would not be able to be mowed or have a sprinkler system in it as well. It would just be dead grass, but the section that the city owns that would be green and mode.

B

So that's all I had thank you.

A

C

Yeah, I'm happy to make the move. That's remembered early, um so.

G

I believe it's the second one correct.

A

Yes, that is correct.

G

Okay, uh so I uh I'm making a motion to continue the item to the may 23rd city council meeting and direct staff to prepare a resolution of approval for a changing condition: application to remove conditions of approval. Four and five in case number pl2021-62.

G

And conditions of approval, three and four in case number, 10633a-03 pertaining to landscaping and scenic easement requirements associated with the variances at 7981 leah circle.

E

A

Motion by councilmember d'alessandro, second by council member carter, to continue the item to may 23rd and direct staff to prepare a resolution of approval for change of condition.

A

Any further council discussion on this hearing, none all those in favor, please signify by saying aye, aye aye opposed, I don't I don't know- motion- carries five, two very good take care. Thank you.

A

So, mr hughsett we'll see you back on the 23rd. Actually you don't need to come back. I guess, but you certainly could so. Thank you good. Thank you.

A

Yeah moving on to item 4.3 on our agenda and actually 4.3 through 4.9. It becomes, I believe the doug juncker show here as we get into this as we uh do some renewals of on and off sale, liquor and wine license, and so on. So we'll start with item 4.3, mr junker. Yes,.

P

Mr mayor and council is staff and I always have a joke about their long-winded, and here I am with seven items. So I don't know here we go so yeah. The first five are the annual liquor license renewals um as we go through these um each one, we're asking you to approve uh pending the outstanding items, which is everything from maybe a missing form or a signature.

P

Usually it's insurance, I'm always chasing insurance, this time of year, so they're, not always a hundred percent, so uh but basically how this works is when I do have a complete packet they're due to the state on june 1st, so the first mailing goes out and anything I'm still chasing through that month is just a potential delay and them getting deliveries july 1st, but we're looking at your approval on those with uh those uh general items still out there.

P

There was a memo I sent you to there's a couple um holds um when we get to the wine license. Umbria did say: they're not applying, and then the eagles did not apply for renewal. So that brings you down to just two clubs tonight the eagles will be coming back on june. 6Th with a full public liquor license um june 6th I'll, be back with like five or six at night too. um So um the um what else did we have in there? I will take one at a time so the first one's on sale.

P

um This one went pretty smooth this year I do like I said I do still have some outstanding items, though so um looking for your approval, with uh with those outstanding items still hanging. Thank you.

A

Mr junker council, any questions tonight on the renewal of the on sale and sunday on sale, intoxicating liquor licenses as referenced in the packet.

A

I don't see any questions, so this is a public hearing. I will open this public hearing at item 4.3. Anyone here in the chambers who wishes to speak to item 4.3.

A

Nor do we have anyone on the phone lines who wishes to speak to item 4.3.

G

No one is on their phone line, sir. You may continue thank.

A

You norah council scene, no one coming forward, no one on the phone line. I would look for a motion to close the public hearing on item 4.3, so moved second motioned by council member coulter, second by council member loman to close the public hearing on item 4.3. No further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion, carries 6-0 with council member nelson stepping away for a moment council. Any questions on this any comments.

A

Councilmember uh culture.

I

uh No comment other than it feels like every time we do this, I'm just reminded of the number of places in bloomington that I haven't been to that I want to go to so just you know, maybe I'll keep that in mind for the future. Keep this uh keep this handy, um I'm happy to make a motion.

I

Thank you mayor. I will move to approve.

I

Excuse me, I will move to approve the on sale and sunday on sale. Intoxicating liquor, license renewals, condition upon the submission of all general items. Second,.

A

Motion by council member colts are second by council member lowman to approve of the on sale and sunday on sale. Intoxicating liquor license renewals, no.

O

Councilmember nelson yeah, thank you mayor I'll abstain, since I was out of the room very good.

A

Any further council discussion hearing- none all those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries 6-0 with councilmember nelson abstaining item 4.4, a public hearing on the renewal of on sale and sunday on sale, club, intoxicating liquor licenses.

P

Yeah, mr mayor and council, as I mentioned, we kind of had a lot of moving targets this year during the renewal season. So this one instead of the three items in front of we're. Looking for the approval of um the on sale um and sunday on sale, club license for the minnesota valley, country, club and everett mcclay vfw.

A

Thank you, council. Any questions of mr junker hearing none. I will open this public hearing at item 4.4. This is a public hearing regarding the renewal of on sale and sunday on sale, club intoxicating, liquor licenses. Anyone in the council chambers is wishing to speak on this matter.

A

Nora. Is there anyone on the phone who wishes to speak to item 4.4.

C

No one is on the phone. Mr mayor, you may continue thank.

A

You norah council, nobody coming forward knowing we should speak on the phone. I'd, look for a motion to close the public hearing on item 4.4.

E

A

Second motion by council member carter seconded by council member lohman to close the public hearing in item 4.4, no further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye motion carries 7-0.

C

Councilmember carter.

E

All right, I would move to approve the on sale and sunday on sale. Club intoxicating liquor license renewals conditioned upon the submission of all general items.

A

Second motion by council member carter, second by council member lowman, to approve the on sale and sunday on sale, club intoxicating liquor license renewals with the uh the changes stated by mr juncker uh in his preface about uh the the two, as opposed to the three that we have listed in the stack. Yes.

P

A

The packet no further discussion on this council, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion- carries 7-0 item 4.5, a public hearing on the renewal of off-sale intoxicating liquor licenses. Mr juncker, mr.

P

Mayor and council, the off-sale license is pretty much pretty straightforward so as presented with those general items still outstanding.

A

Council any questions seeing none. This is a public hearing item 4.5 on a renewal of the off sales intoxicating liquor license. Anyone in the chamber is wishing to speak on this, nor is there anyone on the phone who wishes to speak to item 4.5.

C

No one is on the phone. Mr mayor may continue. Thank.

A

You, council, no one coming forward. I look for a motion to close the public hearing on item 4.5.

F

So I moved second.

A

Motion by council member d'alessandro seconded by council member loma to close the public hearing on item 4.5. No further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion, carries 7-0 councilmember, d'alessandro.

G

I would move uh to approve the off-sale intoxicating liquor license renewals conditioned upon the submission of all general items. Second motion.

A

By council member d'alessandro seconded by council member lowman to approve the off sale, intoxicating liquor license renewals, no further council discussion. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye.

O

A

Motion carries 7-0 item 4.6 public hearing on the renewal of on sale wine licenses, mr junker, mr.

P

Mayor council, this is our onsel wine licenses and it does have a very kind of a shorter list than the on sale but again approved as presented, except for international cafe, incorporated doing business as umbria gourmet pizzeria have notified us that they are not pursuing a renewal.

A

Very good, thank you counsel. Any questions of mr junker see no questions. This is a public hearing uh item 4.6 on the renewal of on sale wine licenses. Anyone in the chamber is wishing to speak on item 4.6, no one coming forward norway nora. Do we have anyone on the phone who wishes to speak to item 4.6.

C

No one is on the phone. Mr mayor, you may continue thank.

A

You, council, no one coming forward. I look for a motion to close the public hearing on item 4.6.

A

G

A

Motion by council member lowman, second by council member d'alessandro to close the public hearing, no further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye, aye aye opposed motion, carries 6-0 with council member carter stepping away for a moment.

A

Councilman action on this uh councilmember moment.

F

Mayor I'll move to approve the on-sale wine license renewal conditions upon the submission of all general items and the other items that sort of drunker I mentioned.

A

Second motion by council member low and second by council member d'alessandro to approve the on sale wine license renewals with the exception that mr juncker mentioned earlier. No further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries 6-0 item 4.7, a public hearing on the renewal of brewer tap room on sale and small brewer on sale licenses. I can think of one. That's.

P

A

P

Yes, mr junk, um I see this is how you really wear a console out. Isn't it one at a time? Okay, so yeah? This is our first ever renewal of a brewery, uh a tap room and off sale. A small off sale license new to me too, um and found some new paperwork. I had to fill out so um our first ever renewal of our our our brew pub our brew tap room. I should say very good.

A

Council questions of mr juncker, council, member d'alessandro and.

C

I'm councilmember nelson just.

G

Have one quick question they've only been open since february, how why did they have to have their license in place for so long.

P

So, um mr mayor and council, member d'alessandro, uh liquor licensed by state statute have to be on a set schedule. So that's why we're here tonight with all of these all at once, because we we are set for 6 30 on our liquor and beer comes back at in december, so yeah they may have just opened. They may just open a month ago, but it's time to renew it. The next two coming up not to give away the ending tonight. The next two coming up are our brand new licenses.

P

The state does not accept any license more than 12 months, so you're approving this and renewing it all in one shot more paperwork. For me, easy for you, um so yeah we actually are sending in two forms of paperwork, um so the insurance everything matches, but I have to do two forms so, but yeah we're on a set schedule. That's why that's why this happens and.

G

Just a quick follow-up: did that mean that the license application that they had or anyone would have was prorated for the period of time that it was in that period, correct.

P

And that's also in statute and code yeah, absolutely.

G

Thank you very much appreciate it.

O

Councilmember nelson yeah, thank you, I'm just wondering if we can condition this on their opening of the patio asap so as well as not holding events on monday nights during council meetings.

P

I just got the email from them today and I did a drive by it's they're looking at wednesday or thursday. The patio is looking really good, so I went over and inspected that today to make sure it meets our licensing requirements and they're working hard in this perfect weather for working on it. So yeah it's it's a pretty sharp, looking patio. So I heard I heard this week.

A

Leave it to mr junker to do his personal inspections. I appreciate that mr junker. Thank you so very much for that. Councilmember.

I

Coulter mayor, you stole my joke, I was going to say if you ever need any assistance inspecting other patios around town. I am I'm happy to step up in service of our community. We'll do a field trip.

A

No further questions of mr junker: this is a public hearing. I will open the public hearing on item 4.7 for the renewal of brewer tap room on sale and small brewer off sale licenses. Anyone in the council chamber is wishing to speak on this knowing coming forward nora. Do we have anyone on the phone who wishes to speak down in 4.7.

C

No one is on the phone. Mr mayor may continue.

A

Thank you, council, nobody coming forward. I would look for a motion to close the public hearing item 4.7, so moved second motion by council member alessandro seconded by council member martin to close the public hearing on item 4.7. No further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion, carries 7-0 councilmember, d'alessandro.

G

I'm always going to try to be first to get to renewing the folks at nine mile. I'll. Tell you that so um I move to approve the brewer tap room on sale and small brewer off sale, license renewals for bloomington brewery and tap room llc doing business as nine mile brewing company 9555 james avenue, south unit 270 in bloomington condition upon the submission of all general items.

A

Second motion by council member d'alessandro seconded by council member martin to approve the brewer tap room on sale and small brewer off sale, license renewals for bloomington hearing no further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye opposed motion carries seven 7-0 item 4.8 our next public hearing. This is for a new on-sale intoxicating liquor license application for the spring hill suites, mr junker. Yes,.

P

Mr mayor council, spring hill suites have been licensed with us for many years, except for last year. They did not renew and I think they're just coming out of that coveted wave and they didn't they didn't bother. So then they've they've come back now getting ready for a new fresh start, so uh new license for uh old licensee, so we're familiar with them and everything was. This was an easy one. So.

A

Very good counsel, any questions of mr juncker on this one, no questions: I will open this public hearing at item 4.8. This is for a new on-sale intoxicating liquor license application for spring hill suites. Anyone in the chamber is wishing to speak on end of 4.8.

A

I see no one coming forward nor nora. Is there anyone on the phone who wishes to speak to item 4.8.

H

No it's on the phone. Mr mayor, you may continue thank.

A

You norah council, nobody coming forward. I look for a motion to close the public hearing at item 4.8, so move second motion by council member martin, second by councilmember lohman to close the public hearing on item 4.8. No further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion, carries 7-0 council member martin. Thank.

L

You mayor, I will move that we approve the on-sale intoxicating liquor license for alm-bloomington llc, doing business with spring hill suites. Second,.

A

Motion by council member martin, second by council member lohman to approve the on sale, intoxicating liquor license for alm bloomington, doing business as spring hill suites.

A

No further council discussion, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries 7-0 and our final hearing of the evening item 4.9 public hearing on a new on sale. 32 malt beverage license application for alfresco restaurant. Yes,.

P

Mr marion council, I'm amazed we're still doing this, but yes, a 3-2 beer license and before you ask no, I have no information on how it's going at the state on this. So um but yeah alfresco is a restaurant in an office building and they just want to add a beer to a menu, long-standing restaurant with us. So two beer on sale for alfresco.

A

And we are the only state in the union correct. Yes, we are interesting, it's not really interesting, but it's interesting also any additional questions. Mr juncker, on this I will open the public hearing at item 4.9 a new on-sale 3-2 malt beverage license for alfresco restaurant. Anyone in the council chamber is wishing to speak to item 4.9, no one coming forward nora. Do you have anyone on the phone who wishes to speak to item 4.9.

M

C

M

C

You may proceed.

A

Thank you, council, nobody coming forward. I look for a motion to close the public hearing so move second motioned by council member martin, second by council member lowman to close the public hearing on item 4.9, no further questions or comments by the council. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion, carries 7-0 council member martin bring us on home.

L

Here, thank you mayor. I will move that we approved the on sale, 32 malt uh beverage license for al fresco. Restaurant llc.

D

A

Motion by council member martin, second by council member uh coulter to approve the on-sale 3-2 malt beverage, license for al fresco. Restaurant llc, no further council discussion, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries 7-0. Thank you very much, mr junker. Thank you very much nora. Thank you very much. Our public comment. Opportunities for this evening have uh completed, have ended, so you may take the rest of the night off. Thank you much for your work tonight.

C

Thank you, mr mayor, have a good evening. Everyone.

A

C

A

Move on to item five on our agenda, our organizational business and an item that we continued from last time, a budget update and discussion for our 2023 budget. uh I believe we've got uh a double header here: one julie seal, our fire chief and kari carlson, our budget manager. Who is, I believe, remote this evening, so we will start with uh our fire chief chief seal good evening, sir.

K

Matt bring up the presentation, mr mayor council members, I'm here to brief you on issues specifically regarding staffing for the fire department.

K

You can click the next slide.

K

So tonight's presentation there are five sections to it and I'll go through each section um um and give you a little briefing some of it's historical in the sense of how we got to where we are today, um and some of it is where we're at today and where we want to go in the future. So next slide.

K

We in 19 uh excuse me 2019. We asked for and received a review of fire services, and this is part of the program that the city council had adopted, to have all city departments, have their service services reviewed and make a determination on whether we were doing the right. What and or if we could do some improvements.

K

Somehow and as a result of this fire service review, um there was several recommendations made by the consultant and if you recall this, this report to council was delayed a little bit because of the onset of the pandemic, and and so it was done virtually. But um the council at the time was given the report and we went through the recommendations so I'll, just kind of go over them very quickly again.

K

Recommendation one next slide recommendation one was to adopt updated deployment policies in a response time standard and- and we had some response time standards, but they weren't state of the state of the art in the sense of they weren't. What was normally accepted across the country and weren't, allowing the city or the city council to actually monitor actual performance, and so the the consultant's recommendation was to adopt updated, complete performance measures, the deployment planning and the monitor performance of the department.

K

And, if you recall at the time the report was given, the council gave me direction to come back with some updated, updated standards and I'll get back to that a little bit. The measures of time that they wanted us to adopt should be designed to deliver outcomes that will save patients or or people when possible and keep small fires. Small, but serious fires small so, and that really revolves around response time.

K

As we've spoken about before the next recommendation was on the distribution of fire stations and and the distribution of fire stations is tied directly to response time and their uh recommendation was to be able to respond and have an effective response for us and I'll talk about that. In a minute respond, an initial unit respond within seven and a half minutes from the time the 911 call comes into dispatch, so someone calls 911 and seven and a half minutes later. You have that initial fire unit arriving with three person three or four personnel on it.

K

um So then, if you want that split out, it's a 90 second dispatch time, two-minute company turnout time from the station and and a four-minute travel time to get to that seven and a half minutes.

K

Then the next recommendation was about multiple unit, effective response force for serious emergencies, and this is what we call a multi-station response. So for a structure fire for hazmat emergency for technical rescue for vehicle extrication with victims trapped. We get multiple stations on those and their recommendation was the adopter's response time standard of 11 and a half minutes from 9-1-1 call to the time the entire effective response force got to the scene.

K

The the next one was for hazardous materials response and the hazardous materials response and technical rescue both were recommending an initial response of seven and a half minutes and an extended response, or a multiple erf response of 11.5 minutes very similar to a structure, fire or a serious incident.

K

The last recommendation was around the fire stations and based upon fire station locations.

K

They recommend the stations be in their current locations, are very close to them and that the city continued to update and upgrade those structures, specifically the four that were in in need of updating and adding 24-hour capability to fire station.

K

One next slide the recommendations that we have completed, and I want to be careful about using the word completed with the duty crew recommendation, but the recommendation was to maintain duty crews, which we have done and continue with our paid on coal program, which we have done, um but we are struggling with that, which is the reason for the rest of the presentation, the chief officers. He also recommended adding chief officers.

K

We have done that and I'll mention some situations um in a few minutes where adding those chief officers have been really critical to our success. Reducing ladder, trucks we had six ladder, trucks and ladder, trucks are very expensive.

K

In fact, you will probably be approving purchase of a ladder truck for next year in june here, so they're very expensive, and his recommendation was is that we could institute two lesser kinds of apparatus. What we call rescues or heavy rescues that carry all the tools and equipment of a ladder. Truck and com perform all the functions of a ladder truck with the exception. The aerial device maintain three aerials in the city and add two heavy rescues, one which we've already done, and that's why it's under the success.

K

We did not replace one tractor uh one, one aerial device already and in in its place we have placed a heavy rescue. The next one that was due to be replaced is due to be replaced in 2025, and we won't replace that one with the ladder we'll actually replace that with a heavy rescue at probably less than half the cost.

K

Next slide going on to effective response for workforce and fire department- staffing next slide.

K

So when we talk about an effective response force, there's two layers to that. One is for that initial unit. That's responding, and we talk about three or four firefighters on that and then there's another effective response for us when we talk about multiple multiple stations or multiple units responding, and we have generally focused our standard around 15 uh 15, firefighters, getting 15 firefighters on the fire ground in a certain amount of time.

K

Their recommendation is 11 and a half minutes, but they also wanted to point out to us that 15 firefighters is adequate for a single family, small to medium-sized residential dwelling. It's not adequate for apartment buildings, high-rises or commercial buildings which, as you all know, occupy a fair amount of real estate in the city.

K

So I just wanted to point that out as we move forward as we continue to talk about staffing issues, so fire department, stashing staffing, our adequate staffing, continues to be a critical issue. um Years ago, our I had come to council um quite a few years ago. I don't want to date myself too terribly in front of you guys tonight, but um we had set a a a kind.

H

K

Good number for the fire department to be staffed at with paid on call firefighters of 155., and I had given an authorized at that point in time. I'd been given an authorized number of 175 to maintain that 155, so in other words, you'd be able to hire over 155 and in anticipation of of retirements.

K

The last time we were even close to that number was in 2002..

K

We've struggled mightily for many years for multiple reasons as we as we come through, but to give you a sense of where we're at currently we're we're currently at about 91 active firefighters with our seven chiefs that gets us to 98., um so we're missing more than a third of our workforce.

K

If I was using 2002 2002 data standards and as you look at the call response and how that's effect been affected in 2015 and and um there was a request for some historical data- the last time I was here and they wanted to talk about 2002 and we were close to um um 150..

K

um But um I I could not unearth those records in an archaeological dig in our data systems. So I went back to where I could easily grab some data and in 2015 wheats, and I actually started tracking these numbers in 2007, but in 2015 a unit or a truck uh rolled staffed with only two people about 222 times in 2015, uh which I at the time thought was. You know not a bad. Not a good thing was was terrible and in 2015 a unit failed to respond or did not respond.

K

They were unable to respond due to a lack of staff 52 times. Then you look in 2021 and you can see the number difference.

K

A lot of this has to do with an increase of runs, but it also has to do with a real increase in the number of times that we have trucks rolling with two or one personnel and um in many cases not being able to roll because they're we don't have enough staff next slide.

K

So the examples we can use for three working fires in march um trying to get 15 people on the fire ground in 11 and a half minutes.

K

I only made it on one of those three working fires, which is about what we average about a third of the time we make that, and that was due to the fact that we had trucks on the road and responding already out responding something similar happened. Friday night we had a structure structure fire friday night. We had some trucks on the road already we made our eleven and a half minutes, but I had one engine that rolled with one one engine that rolled with two one rescue that rolled with two.

K

On one ladder that, while it rolled with four, it had two brand new people, the one engine that rolled with two had a brand new person, the one engine that rolled with one had a brand new person.

K

So those chiefs that I was talking to you about, I was plugging in to crews with new people, so we could complete our operation and it went well, but I'm always concerned about living on borrowed time. With with my staffing issues. Next slide just wanted to bring up and show you quickly the firefighter training requirements.

K

I know you're on your time, delay.

K

There we go um just to talk to you about uh training requirements, one of the things we found as we recruit. Nowadays it's been much more difficult to get people to to sign up for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons that's been made to clear to us is the time: commitment and tremendous amount of initial training, time equipment requirements in the first year and a half next slide, and then the ongoing training requirements as well go on annually for all of our firefighters.

K

So there's a considerable amount of training involved, as well as a considerable amount, a time devoted to actual response. Next slide.

K

So our staffing performance.

K

So our goal and the goal I wanted to come back to you and have you adopt, but I've hesitated to do that because we are, as you can see by the numbers, quite a ways off from the goal: it's three firefighters on scene within seven minutes and 30 seconds and in 2018 and 19 we're and that's within 90 percent of the time.

K

Originally we were doing averages. But if you understand math at all, you understand that when you do an average there's at least half of of the the the the things you're trying to measure that don't even meet the average and um that's significant when you're talking about emergency response, so the the national um standard or the national standards out there and the and the movement nationally for the fire service is that they use a 90 standard, 90, fractal measurement to be exact and and in 2018 and 2019.

K

You got ahead of me a little bit there that that was nine minutes and 17 seconds and then 2021 and 2022. This is for our first unit on scene with a minimum of three people. um It was 11 minutes and 30 seconds.

K

So we've gotten worse, which is to be expected: I've dropped more people um and um things have been become more challenging for our structure. Fire goal that 15 firefighters on the scene in 11 minutes and 30 seconds, 90 percent of the time our actual performance is about 27 percent of time. About a third of the time now I will tell you that we go to all structure, fires and we've extinguished them all right. There's um I've had a very good got, a very good friend. That tells me all fires go out.

K

All bleeding stops whether we intervene or not, but we want to intervene in a positive sense, right and and those things much more quickly, so um about a third of the time, we're meeting our standard with that, but each one gets a response um and action. This is not just happening in bloomington. This is a nationwide problem.

K

It's happened in the metro area. A number of our surrounding departments have had significant changes in how they staff and how they have to staff their fire services to meet to meet the needs of their communities, and these are just some some of the ones that listed um some of the requests. The last time were about a little more defined metrics from those surrounding communities, and it's pretty tough to pry that out of people, because I'm asking them to do a lot of homework for not much return.

K

So I was able to, like, I say, list the ones that have changed from. If you look at the neighboring combination departments, eden, prairie, invergrove heights, apple valley, savage shakopee, minnetonka, they've, all changed from paid on call operations just like ours to combination departments, which is what we're proposing to continue to move to. I would consider us that now, but um increasing next slide.

K

So our staffing plan uh council had asked what's the plan: where are we going forward with this? What what's? How are we going to solve this problem? So what I'd like to do this year now is add four full-time firefighter fire inspectors, and this does a couple of things for us. It helps us address our daytime duty, crew shortages.

K

um We have not been able, in the daytime, been able to staff all of our duty crew engines that we try to staff. um Recently, staffing has gotten more difficult and, as my command staff always points out to me, we ain't even in the summer yet.

K

So I would like to add four off an existing list, and this would also assist us in addressing our current fire code inspection backlog.

K

This was something we were struggling to keep up with pre-covid and then, when kovid came, things obviously got a lot worse, so we're trying to catch up on that we'd be using existing dollars within our budget to do this, and it is already an existing um position that exists in the city pay plan. So there's really no change. That needs to be done. I just wanted to let you know this is what what we want to do. Moving forward next slide long term.

K

More longer term is to create that hybrid model more more career in our combination model. We considered combination now, because we have some career and primarily paid on call. We want to add some more career to that.

K

Looking to hire six firefighters a year over the next 10 years to try to get to that 75 full-time and maintain 60 paid on-call firefighters, I'm using um our current roster and new recruits to do to do this, so our current roster of paid on call firefighters would stay and we'd add new paid on-call firefighters as well to try to maintain that roster next slide.

K

This is uh this: is the money slide?

K

This is why I'm speaking with kari tonight, because all these decisions have budget implications, as you are well aware, so in 2023 to add six and then adding six in 24 and 25, you can see that implication to the budget. Moving forward, we tried to do the escalator kind of predicting out where um salary wages and benefits would go for 24 and 25 23. We had a pretty good, uh pretty good idea about it.

K

As we add people career people, we need to add a another layer of management, basically what they are as a crew boss or a captain on a rig that manages and runs that crew and we would use existing career people that we'd hire and, and that would be a pay differential that we'd have to do on those on those trucks that we staffed next slide.

K

Now, as you well know, we did apply for a safer grant, that's staffing for adequate fire and emergency response and that, if we're successful would provide funding for three years, salary and benefits for three years for 18, full-time firefighters, 23 through 25..

K

We are kind of doubling up on this. um For two reasons one is is that we probably won't hear about a safer award until the fall after you guys already set the preliminary levy and we'll have already had budget discussions. So we had to go ahead and plan moving forward on how to how to add some people, and the other reason would be. It also gives us an opportunity to look at our our situation, moving forward and and maybe front end load what we're trying to do um to get to that 60.

K

um but, like I said, these are all council decisions that have yet to be made. This is a this is kind of a briefing to answer the questions that you'd asked me the last time I stood in front of you and give you an opportunity to ask me some more.

A

That was a period I was. I thought there was another.

A

Thank you chief um longer term budget. How does this relate to a pension and the the pensions issues that we've been having over the past few years with the city contributions to uh the firefighter's pension plan,.

K

So obviously you have fewer people in the pension plan. Your contributions would go down, we're actually going to be working with our actuarial, whether it's miliman or not, I'm not sure yet, but whether we're going to be working with an actuarial to try to make a determination on what that exact impact would be. Okay,.

A

Thank you, council additional questions here. Councilmember lohmann.

F

Thank you mayor. um I just wanted to say off the bat. I appreciate you looking at the different departments. I know that was an impossible ass, but just in case something came through.

F

I do appreciate you doing that, um so I I see that every er every year we try to add six, but I wasn't clear to me: how would get to the 75? Is it that we already? We already got some.

K

Okay, so six a year for ten years, is 60, and then I've already got with you to count the seven chiefs, the four existing fire fighter, fire inspectors. I have plus an additional four okay, eight and seven is.

F

Yeah that adds up that works. So then, how would we handle attrition with that over the because, obviously rock I just maintained six all the time I know with the 151 it was. You know we went to one 175. How would that be handled and what would be the impact.

K

That would be handled slightly differently than I was trying to do with paid on call is we'd, be filling open positions so, as attrition happens, we'd fill open positions.

F

It'd have the same impact from a budgetary standpoint right.

K

You wouldn't be adding more career positions in anticipation of retirements you'd fill vacancies as they'd occurred. I'd become more of a regular customer for hr.

F

A

Council member colter and then council member martin, councilmember coulter thank.

I

You mayor um I'm curious about these firefighters inspectors. How do they divide their time? Are they on call one day and then the next day they're inspecting or are they just always kind of inspecting and then oh, I gotta go, take a call. How does that work.

K

Well, this is new all right. I'm doing um I won't say I'm thinking out of the box, but I'm really scrambling trying to find people to to ride trucks um and get the trucks out the door, but I also need people to do inspections so right now, I've got four inspectors that I keep robbing to get trucks out the door and I keep putting chiefs on trucks to get trucks out the door.

K

So adding four will allow me at least to and rotate them then. So I have some filling trucks and some inspecting every day where some days right now, I don't have anybody inspecting, because I'm trying to keep keep trucks in service gotcha.

C

Thank you, councilmember martin.

L

uh Thank you uh chief, I guess in general moving forward. Obviously, we've got some huge developments coming up in front of us, be it one of the world's biggest water parks, some huge amount of development around potentially a world's fair. With that ideal number of active folks around 155, I guess how what are we taking into account for the projections of large commercial structures or the development south loop or kind of wiggle room? What does that look like.

K

So that 155 is a 2002 number. Okay, the number moving forward in a long-term plan. If we actualize it would be the 75 career and 60.

K

60 paid on call okay, um so that would be the total, which is somewhat less than 155..

K

um We think um that we will be able to staff all six stations with that 24 hours a day which will give us a much better quicker response than we have right now right now we build into our response time about four minutes that it takes our firefighters to get to the stations and get trucks out.

K

um So that's why that seven and a half minutes is really difficult to meet.

L

So wait in quick follow up on that. If you don't mind uh so then with that 135, should we anticipate that if we see a high volume of high-rise commercial development, we should be reevaluating this number, then a few years in or once those developments materialize.

K

um I hesitate to make a promise for a future chief. um I would tell you right now: we've got 40 or 50 high-rise buildings in the city, um the mall of america, some extremely large 400, plus unit apartment buildings. um I would be much better situated with that 135 than I am right now with 91.. That makes sense. Thank you, chief.

A

Counsel, additional questions, councilmember nelson.

O

Thank you, chief for the information. I know we've been talking about this for a while, and I am just wondering what it would look like to accelerate this plan. I mean the information you've provided, showing that we're not meeting current standards and then our plan is to you know, maybe give you the staffing that you need within a decade.

O

uh It makes me feel a little uncomfortable, and- and so you know my I'm just wondering what that would look like and how we might accelerate that more. um That's a tremendous amount of people to bring on a big change in that uh process, and then I do have one other question after that.

K

So we have actually talked about that with assistant uh city manager, mike sable, um and about the potential to accelerate, and that gets back to my comment that if we get the safer grant- and we've already got six in the budget for next year- that if, if, if that was possible to try to start front end loading this process, if we don't get the safer grant, you know we only have six in the budget for next year and we could look at doing something more for the year after.

K

But all of that has budget implications, and that was the reason for the budget slide, showing you that we're talking about each one of those six personnel acquisitions is about one percent on the levy.

O

I appreciate that chief and- and I can just tell you- I can only speak for myself here, but it's it's a budget item that is easily defensible to the community and um so especially given the information that you provided. My second question, I know I think I believe you've answered this before I've asked it before, but the new buildings are all designed for this model that the 24-hour people could be staying there um and be able to respond quickly.

K

That's that's correct. Okay,.

O

K

What I thought and just just to reiterate, we needed that before anyway, because we were asking people to come down and and spend nights for blizzards or severe weather or when the storms come through or or for uh other events that have happened, whether it was the rnc or whatever, and when we do that, they were sleeping on cots out on the apparatus floor. So, okay.

O

Less than ideal, so I will just anecdotally tell you: my business office is across the street from fire station, one in burnsville their new fire station. That's.

K

O

Chief young men very nice facility there and um one of the things that they did with their council and their mayors. They took them through the training, they did a day-long thing with them and- and um I don't know exactly what they did. But I.

K

O

If mayor coutts could do it, I'm sure mayor boosie could do it so so would love at some point for.

A

The vote of confidence.

K

We we'd be happy to give each and every one of you the opportunity if you desired, to uh um put some gear on and see what it's like to to uh to do. What we do um you know a day like today would have been really nice, but I think we should probably wait till some kind of a steamy july or august 8th.

K

Give you a good sense of what actually happens when you put that gear on you sound like my father.

C

Councilmember carter.

E

Thank you mayor. uh I will take you up on that offer. Okay.

K

E

Maybe not I mean I would like to avoid july, but whatever you whatever you say I'll do um so you know. I echo council member nelson's comments around um making sure that I think it's high priority for us to meet the the need in our community and and I believe that residents would really be behind those decisions.

E

uh But I I do have a question. I know. Obviously we applied to the or for the safer grant, but are there other funding sources that we can be looking at? I I'm just thinking about the department of public safety.

K

Most safer is unique in the sense that it is really set up to fund positions um for fire departments. um There are other grant opportunities, but they're, usually for equipment and or training.

K

They don't focus specifically on replacing salaries and benefits, and then the safer grant has has changed as well last year and this this year, the last application in this application both were unusual in the sense that they were paying um all of the salary and benefits for three years. In years past it's been graduated where they paid 80 percent the first year, 50 percent, the the the the uh the second year and 25 the third year.

K

So it was graduated down where these these two grant periods, primarily due to covid and the stress on the system. They were replacing um the full three years of benefits and salaries.

E

Got it got it well, thank you and thank you for your ongoing leadership. Much appreciated.

A

Now is the the safer grant? Is that through fema? Is that correct.

K

Yeah, it's through the united states, fire administration, okay, national fire academy, et cetera, et cetera and.

A

Is it a, is it a yearly or a rolling program or is there you know, does it sunset in at a certain time.

K

um It is annual based upon what congress appropriates to fund the program got it okay. So I would like to say it's annual, but it's annual, but based on.

A

Yes understand: council, member alessandro.

G

Thank you, mayor, hi chief. um Have we ever received that grant before we.

K

Have not we only applied for it um last this last year and for for the one this year, we've only applied for it these two times, okay,.

G

A

Just for everyone's information, a quick review here, I'm seeing all of two cities in the state of minnesota who received funding last year.

K

That's correct: inver grove heights in brooklyn park um brooklyn park had received one in the past, so that was this is their second one in invergrove heights. I think this is the first time they'd applied.

A

So and uh we'll know about those later in the in the fall, whether or not we're successful with that grant application.

K

They start awarding in july, so we could hear soon or as it happened the last time it was like october before they notified us.

A

Council additional questions.

A

uh Well, I concur with all that's been said that uh appreciate the work that you have put into this and I know the hours that you've sat and worried about this and the sleepless nights. You've thought about all this and the planning that has gone into this, and um I I think yes, this is this is a need.

A

This is an urgent need within the city of bloomington that is probably 15 or 20 years behind schedule right now, and so uh I'm happy that we we can take the lead on this and happy that you are pushing this through and calling us on this and pushing us through on this, because it absolutely has to happen- and I appreciate your your leadership on that. Thank you all right.

K

If any of you think of something or have questions, do not hesitate to reach out to me, um this is something I'm pretty well versed in and I think kari is up next.

K

Did you have something else remember carter? Thank.

E

You mayor, I guess I did have one quick question and this may be a better question after kari is done, but uh I guess I'm curious if you've thought through, like the public engagement strategy around this issue, specifically and I'm just thinking more around raising awareness and communicating making sure that residents understand that this is a huge huge. I would.

E

I don't want to use the word crisis, but, like I mean it's a big deal right and we have to figure out a solution, and so I guess I'm just wondering if you've thought about those compute components or worked with coed to kind of think through how we can engage the community around this issue.

K

Been doing that for a number of years, probably probably to the point where I've numbed some people or actually uh developed some um some uh resistance out there.

E

Okay, okay, sometimes.

K

Surprises work better, I don't know, but I so you I think most people will be in favor but do not be surprised with some people speak out against it. As you guys well know, there is no single subject that everybody can agree on anymore. Oh yeah. We know.

E

K

Right, thank you I'll leave it to kara kari. Then.

A

Thank you chief uh and yes, council member, that's well tune into the council minute this week, because this is be the topic of discussion and I think it's incumbent on all of us to start talking about some of these things as well and start normalizing this conversation, because it's an important one and it's uh there's, there's ramification, it's a big number and it's going to be important that we have people understand the importance of this and the urgency of it. So good evening, ms carlson welcome.

M

Hello, mayor and council.

A

Thanks for uh joining us, I know I, I believe, you're you're at conferences this week. Are you not.

M

I am I'm at uh tyler munis financial payroll hr software conference in indianapolis, wow.

A

Sounds like a rocking good time, so it's.

M

It's been very good. A lot of good classes today learned a lot of information to be more efficient in the software and learn new functionality learn things from other people from all over the country. So great.

A

Great well, uh I apologize for putting you off until this week. I know that it would have been probably better in your schedule to do this presentation last week, so I appreciate your flexibility with this and looking forward to the discussion. So please go on ahead.

M

All right, I'm going to bring up my presentation.

M

Okay, so um so just first of all, I just want to thank you. uh I want to thank fire chief julie seal for presenting the fire department, long-term staffing plan and, as you said, it's a critical issue and will have a big impact on the budget. So so tonight I have um some additional information to share with you, as well as some discussion items.

M

So the topics include um uh we're gonna just go through how we're going to incorporate the new bloomington tomorrow, together strategic plan into the 2023 budget request, and then I'm going to talk about property tax and market value changes, I'm going to just go over some preliminary revenue projections and then a discussion on what you would like to for us to share at these public engagement events. I'm going to be doing around the budget which council member carter just brought up. So I think there might be some ideas already and then just quickly.

M

I'm going to highlight some dates. Some budget dates in the calendar.

M

So I wanted to make sure you were aware and that you know that the focus this year is to align our 2023 budget request with the city's new mission and our values that were adopted in the new bloomington tomorrow, together strategic plan.

M

So our mission is to cultivate an enduring and remarkable community where people want to be- and I am not going to read through all these- but I do have in just here just to to put up here that as we're going through, the budget requests we're going to be looking at the strategic objectives that we've set um to achieve by 2030 and that we're also going to um be looking at the strategies that were identified in our new strategic plan.

M

I mean we want to build, trusting relationships that acknowledge diversity, ensure the community can understand, support and actively contribute and align efforts across organizations in the community. So we can maximize our assets and then our core values. We want to make sure those are also reflected in this budget, and um so I won't. I won't read through all these again, but I'm just want to put them here that this is going to be a big focus on this year's budget request and our future budget requests.

M

So, while we are reviewing the budget requests, we're going to be um making sure that we're not adding a program, project policy or service that is not consistent with our core values and aligned to our mission and that we're not going to allow past practices to interfere with the consideration of new ideas.

M

Also, there will be a focus on aligning and prioritizing the work that we are already doing with the new btt plan. So that means an assessment will be done of current initiatives that already fit into the new btt framework, and then a gap analysis will be done on anything that needs to be added and additional resources that may be needed in the 2023 budget request, and so we will make sure to highlight those to the council as we're presenting budget information.

M

And then um next section so um just to highlight this is the 2022 property tax levy that was set. It was 68.3 million dollars and uh majority 75 funds, uh police, public works and fire, and then about nine percent of that tax levy funds, debt service, which that's principal and interest payments for debt. That's issued to fund large capital improvements for facilities, roads and parks.

M

So the information that's on this slide you've seen some of this before this is just highlighting from the city assessors presentation from a few weeks ago. So this year there have been large increases in value across all property segments and matt gerschmill. Also the city assessor made this point. I want to make this point again that that this does not mean that property taxes are going to increase by these large percentages that are shown on this graph.

M

um The total property, the property tax is a total dollar amount that the council sets it's the annual levy, property tax levy and that is allocated among properties based on their value and type of property.

M

So the city can't bring in more taxes than the total dollar amount. That's levied, so the market valuations don't determine how much property tax comes in. It determines what portion of the overall levia certain property taxpayer will pay and so minnesota property tax calculations are very complex, as you know, but but overall properties that have higher values pay a higher portion of this overall tax levy.

M

And then just another highlight this again was presented from the city, assessor matt grishmall, but during his presentation about the annual assessment report. He showed this slide where it has the single family residential home in bloomington and how it has increased over the last five years by 44.4 percent. So in 2017 the median value home in bloomington was 246 400..

M

Now in 2022. That is three hundred fifty five thousand nine hundred dollars.

M

So we're looking at um prop potential property tax, overall levy increases um and and how that might affect the median value home here, um the median value home. So right now in 2022, that has a city property tax amount, that's a little over 101 dollars a month and so below. Here is this what the potential impact could be.

M

So if the property, the overall property tax amount, was not increased at all that would, um with with the valuation changes, it would go up slightly so about one percent, so um that would be an increase of dollar and five cents per month.

M

As you, if you call from last year, that's very different from last year, when, even without any increases to the the property tax levy, the median value home was looking at an increase of eight percent and that had to do with how the valuations were cheap shifted and how commercial was up. I'm sorry, commercial was down, but residential was up so this year. It's it's um that's not the case, but you can see. um You know: zero percent, two percent, four percent six percent.

M

This is an increase in the overall tax levy and in the second column there I have. The dollar amount that that would equate to so. A two percent overall increase in the property tax levy would equal 1.3 million dollars.

M

A six percent increase would equal four over four million dollars, and then you can see how that equates to a increase per month for city property taxes.

M

um Next, I would just like to go over some of our very preliminary revenue projections for the 2023 budget, 2024 conceptual budget, so property taxes are the largest revenue source in the city's general fund and then the second largest revenue source comes from local lodging and emission taxes. And, as you know, in 2020 those plummeted.

M

um They went from 10.4 million dollars down to 3.2 million dollars due to the impacts of the pandemic and in 2021 the revenues they improved. They were at 6.3 million dollars and they were better than what we had budgeted um and then staff from community development and from finance we've been meeting regularly regularly since march 2020, just to analyze, hotel industry, research and trends and just based on our analysis.

M

It's still looking that gradually they will come back up to those pre-pandemic levels in 2025, but you can see the drastic drop that they made in 2020 and then they're still not back to where they were.

M

And then I'm also just wanted to show another significant revenue source and the general fund, so it's property taxes, the local lodging and admission tax and then permit revenue. So this is permanent revenue. Permit revenues from building electrical hvac plumbing permits the total revenues they were down in 2021 compared to 2020, and they are expected to to be down a little bit this year as well for 23 and 24 the building and inspection staff.

M

They are cons at the at the moment right now from the information they have they're conservatively projecting them to come up slightly in 23 and 24. But not you know huge increases.

M

So that brings us to our public engagement events that we have planned.

M

So this is a screenshot from the the budget page on the city's website, and these are events that I have planned um for um for this year, and so my first public budget engagement event will be this saturday may 21st so coming up really soon at the police, open house, and I will be at a table also with the police department, accountant, abdi awajama, so we'll both be there and we're going to be handing out information.

M

Answering questions. We're going to be providing a qr code link, that's going to go right to our budget page on the city's website. That'll have more information and we'll also have links to answer, questions that we're going to ask on that'll link to let's talk, bloomington and also get ideas and feedback from the public and and so.

M

uh Go to this next slide here, um just wanted to show you. This is what we had last year, and so these were the questions so at the public engagement events that we had also what we had on. Let's talk bloomington. We gathered this information and shared this with you, as you were, making decisions about the budget.

M

So we only we had three questions last year. It was what is your favorite city service?

M

What service or area would you like to see more investment in and why and then what advice do you have for the city council as they set the final uh 22 budget tax, libya, and then we shared that information with you um last year. I think I also we also put that in a one weekly recently, so you can see all the responses that we had.

M

And then um oops, I went too far so that brings um me too. We do have some ideas. uh Staff has some ideas of things that we'd like to share at these public engagement sessions and questions to ask. But before these get started, we just want to hear from you what you want to make sure that we that we find out from the public that we bring back to you and what information do you think is very important that we share with them.

M

So that's the end of my presentation and then I just wanted to hear from you what you would want to make sure that I communicate at these public engagement events and um also what what you want to know from them.

A

Thank you once again, good information. It is just stunning to see that the cliff that the uh the revenue fell off for the the the uh um the budget, the uh the hospitality budgets just fell right off the table. It's just amazing to see that that crater council remember d'alessandro.

G

Mr mayor, I have actually just a quick question if I could um about the budget um presentation, hi kari nice, to see you thanks for accommodating us. During your travels, um I just had a quick question. The the the debt service number that you uh shared with us.

G

If you want to go back to that slide, um I just historically is that about the been about the same for us and or is it higher or lower than I don't know historically typical, and also um is it is it historically or typical for a city our size depending upon? I guess what you're doing, of course, but I'm just kind of curious how it lines up with uh with what your standards are or what you're looking at in terms of comps.

M

Is uh is laurie in the in the council chambers this evening? I don't know if sorry, I might defer, I might defer to laurie. On that question, I I mean um my first response. I think it has been uh growing. I can see her coming up there.

D

Mayor and council member lisandro, I would say that the debt amount is growing. um What we have done for a number of years is not invest in all of our facilities, and that is coming and those debt numbers are we'll, probably come back with you um prior to the preliminary levy, setting and walk you through, just uh where our cip document is at and what that debt would look like, um and it might depend on what legislation passes next week or not um where we would model different numbers.

G

Sure, um quick follow-up question to that. I the I guess, the the I'm assuming that there's a a minimum or a maximum like there's some there's, some uh being that you're, the conservative individual that you are. I I assume that there's a there's, a point after which you would not be recommending certain things and I'm just kind of curious. If you know what that number is or if there's a if there's general rule or a some requirement, we have around our aaa bond rating or anything like that.

G

That determines the the amount of debt service we would want to carry.

D

Mayor and council member alessandro, I would say a lot of the debt pieces again- could be the appetite for council to raise the tax levy.

D

For example, when we look at the fire station bonds that we just issued that debt service on that is just under 900 000 a year, so just for that facility for the 20 years that that feels you know we're going to climb that one and a quarter percent up in tax levy for that piece and then, as we add new facilities that will increase our debt service, I would like to keep our debt service in general. um You know when we look at that percentage there.

D

um You know in the 15 to 16 of the total amount, um but that's conservative. But again we have a lot of needs that have built up over time and um it will be the appetite for the council and the residents to absorb that and we can stagger and pull them out, but sometimes the roof will leak.

G

A

You uh I see mr verbi has joined us.

Q

Thank you, mr mayor and council members good evening uh to add to what lori said and and uh also to answer the question from councilmember d'alessandro when, when we go through a bond rating review, that's one of the factors that the the rating agency will look at and uh to date they have never commented about uh concern of the the debt service load.

Q

uh That we maintain uh and lori stated accurately is that uh where we're at is uh is not in an area where you would be concerned as a percentage of the of the total levy or the city's total fiscal capacity. So there certainly is room to add debt as the council prioritizes various capital improvements, and that's always going to be just a balancing act between what the needs are and and what the impact is to the property taxpayers.

Q

But to be very specific about your question. Councilmember, um the the nine percent figure is, is not out of line at all.

A

Thank you appreciate it so kyrie the questions you asked. What do we think we should? You should highlight as your your tabling opportunities, I think, well, the discussion we just had about the fire plan. I think absolutely needs to be a1.

A

I think just to continue the discussion about valuation increases and how that does or does not affect property tax statements, and just so people understand that a little bit more and then how the strategic plan is affected by or how it affects budgets just in general, and I think that's that's a worthwhile. Those three things are pretty meaty and I think that will take up more than enough table space for you.

A

If you, you answered those questions, and then you also asked the question: what questions do we want to learn through this process and it's probably too broad, and it isn't necessarily budget specific, but just to talk to people and say: where do you get your information and how would you like to get your information? How would be the best way? We've got a lot of good detail, a lot of information about what we're doing, how we do it, where the money goes, where the money comes from all those different pieces.

A

How do we get that information into people's hands so they they can learn it and they can understand it and I think that's. I would be curious to hear what people have to say about it and I think a lot of people I I don't. I honestly don't know what they would say in terms of the best way to do that, the best way to communicate with folks.

A

So those would be my three suggestions in terms of what to uh what to plan for, and at least one question that we could ask the community council, member colts and then council, member martin.

I

Thank you mayor um actually pretty similar pretty similar answers to these questions. I would add at the risk of giving you way too much information to share. You know one table at the police department, open house- um I I would add, in terms of information to share, I don't think we can say enough times how it is exactly that people come to get the property tax bill that they get from the city.

I

You know what what happens between when we set that final levy number at you know our second to last or last meeting in december between between that and when they get their property tax bill. How do those numbers trend? How does the first number translate to the second number, because I think um that that's a piece of information that a lot of folks just need to hear over and over and over again um as far as what information would we like to hear?

I

Oh and actually sorry before I move on the other piece that I think it would be helpful, you know the the major well, I guess I can't say majority, but a large portion of every department's budget is personnel. It's people, it's salary and benefits right, and I think it would be helpful.

I

Excuse me, it would be helpful to share, I mean, don't need to have like the complete pay schedule out there right, but it would be. I think it would be helpful for folks to know okay if this is a big chunk of each department's budget.

I

Who, who are the people that are are making up that chunk? If that makes sense right, like I'm, gonna, go out on a limb and suggest that perhaps the largest portion of uh the police department budget, as an example, is you know, officers who walk the beat for lack of a better phrase right, and so you know what does what does that look like for public works and legal? And all of that who are you know what are the specific positions that make up that chunk? That is personnel and then to the second question.

I

I think it would be really interesting and helpful for us to know in a similar vein to to what the mayor suggested. What is sort of excuse me, understanding that this is not going to be a a scientific survey. That's going to be pretty self-selected. What is the perception?

I

As far as you know how the how the city spends its money, what you know, what what do people, what percentage, if you want to do it this way, you know what percentage do people think the police department makes up and and public works and and fire and all that versus the reality, um because I think that to me would be really interesting as far as um how we would how we communicate and what we communicate in terms of where folks think our priorities are versus, uh where they are.

A

Council member martin, then council, member carter, council member martin.

L

uh Thank you mayor um and thank you for this uh curry and the robust engagement coming up on the schedule here. uh Kind of to take on to the point the mayor raised about uh prioritization just kind of off the back of the envelope. We've got a lot of big plans coming up here: park's master plan, our public safety infrastructure improvements, alternative transportation plan needs an update, we've already talked about trail system investments and where we're going to go with that neighborhood commercial mode renewal.

L

Obviously we got a lot of big things coming up and it is valuable to know what folks prioritize but I'd be curious and not in an intensive way to figure out prioritize over what so so, yes you're excited about investing in the park system, but what what's less exciting to you? Obviously, it's all critical and important, but just to know that a lot of folks are excited about each one doesn't help me figure out what I tackle in what order and to what degree.

L

So, if there's a way to have people be able to rank, this is what I would want to see. First, second, third, knowing it's it's all going to get done, and perhaps that's something that's a little bit easier to do on something like a let's talk page. So, even if we could have a qr code or a handout that could direct people afterwards to go, do that, but that would help me to synthesize that information and turn it into what are we doing for 2023?

L

C

Councilmember carter.

E

Thank you mayor. So, as I looked at the questions from last year, actually really liked them, but I just think they need to be. I would reword them a little bit, so I would love to know just like what do people love most about living in bloomington and hear the responses to that. And then I do agree around the prioritization.

E

And so um I was imagining in person, but obviously we'd want to have an online component as well, even just having kind of one of those dot exercises right where people get three dots, red, yellow, green and they get to rank kind of their favorite city or what they think are the most important city, services or amenities.

E

And then uh and then I think we even have the opportunity to kind of structure that a little bit more, whether it's parks or fire department, or you know the range of other needs. We have and have people rank those. And so I do agree with what council member martin was saying, and I think that I'm not an expert in online facilitation. But I feel like there are a lot of creative ways to do that in person, and I assume you have expertise in that car or the co-ed division would have that too.

E

And then I also just have some other recommendations on kind of how we're doing the engagement, and so I assume that you're going to have the website like you had last year. I know I found that incredibly helpful to refer people to when they had questions, and I just thought you did an excellent job and then I would recommend that we increase engagement.

E

We've talked about town halls, so when those get planned, I think it would make a lot of sense to even just have a table at the town halls where people can come, learn about the upcoming budget discussions and decisions that are going to be made, and then even thinking a little bit more around um I mean I think, you've done a great job of meeting people where they're at like with the events at the bandshell, but even thinking about how we can partner with others like.

E

Maybe we could have a session at the brewery or some other local venue where a lot of people like to hang out and then. Lastly, I would just ask that maybe there be some planning done around engaging small businesses, local businesses in these discussions.

E

I know that when I had my meeting with the drool and moose owners, they had lots of questions around property taxes and the local option sales tax, and so even if it was kind of a bit bit of a broader conversation, around kind of the local tax environment.

E

uh I think that more information there would be better just so that I mean if, when there is a when there isn't as much information going to a certain sector, then they can kind of fill in right with what is circulating in the community, and so I just think if we can get ahead of that, that would be great. So those are my thoughts. Thank you.

A

Good suggestions, thank you. Councilmember d'alessandro.

G

I think they're great and uh I had one very similar to what councilmember martin suggested, so I think that just doubled down on endorsing that. um The only thing that I would add is that I you know I know car you're one person and um we're asking a lot of you. I would I would certainly recommend and encourage our department heads to also make themselves available in these moments, especially since we do kind of as we review the budget throughout the year.

G

We go somewhat by department by department and project by project, and things like that, and so you know, concurrent with when those are coming up on council meetings or whatever to have one of those department heads along with you um at the at the I don't know you know the next time, you're meeting or whatever.

G

I think that might be really beneficial so that people can get more in-depth questions about about where the money goes today, what the proposals are and why they're, whether considering increases or decreases or other things like that, um and so that I would just you know, tag team or get some help uh so you're, not the only person.

G

That's uh we're gonna, ask you to go to everything possible under the sun here in the next six months, trying to get this over the line, uh but um I think you know, since they're involved in the projects anyway and in the proposal and the building of the budget anyway, um they'd be a great resource and I think people would love to see them too.

G

A

Councilmember lowman.

F

Hey can mary, I think I think that my colleagues have raised some excellent uh items. One one item that doesn't really fit into these two questions here is: I'm just curious about how inflation is going to impact our budget.

F

uh What's the impact going to be, you know uh overall, and so I'd be curious to look at that, and I know that's not what we're kind of talking about tonight, but as we continue this conversation about the budget I'd like to whatever we can dig into that to just kind of understand what type of impact that's going to have when we get to the piece and then I'll.

F

Second, the idea for the town halls, I think that they need to be a part of this calendar, but I know we're probably not there yet in terms of organizing that, but I'd be interested in us. Having that conversation, I know that um the last time we had this conversation, we, the town halls, we had the opportunity to kind of have conversations about some of that deferred maintenance around the buildings, and I think that really did help folks to understand that.

F

So then, to answer specifically the questions that you've kind of raised here, I'll start with the bottom one. First, one information that I would like to know as a council member to gather from the public. You know we look at the demographics of our city and you know we've really got a lot of different folks. We've got the seniors who are kind of getting older and we have a number of new families that are kind of coming in.

F

We've got these different breakdowns of different incomes across the city, shifting demographics, from a cultural perspective and one of the things that would be helpful for me. Is I really want to understand uh what the impact is. You know we have this pandemic, how how are they doing now? How are you doing now, for you know, from an income standpoint, uh uh you know what what you're paying uh and I'm not sure how you do this, but that's why you guys are so brilliant, so I'll throw it to you.

F

But you know how do you, how do we figure out how our our residents are are kind of dealing with the impacts of the of the pandemic and also uh of their situation in terms of income? What are the challenges that they're they're kind of facing, because I think just for me as a council member, you know, as I go door-to-door some of those different demographics and different people, they kind of say hey.

F

You know this is really impacting me in terms of how I'm going to deal with this, and so I'd like to have a a more a better cross-section of the of the public to try to have a look at that, and then um we have put forth a new uh mission statement here and different strategies and I'd be curious to see uh what folks think of those ideas and, in terms of now that we're shifting with these strategies and a new mission.

F

What's one thing that you know you'd like to see in the budget, you know maybe one thing you maybe would like to see us kind of move away from to the point that you raised uh earlier and then the last thing I think the mayor has brought this forward and I think councilmember nelson also brought forth I'd really like to see us take a temperature of that fire piece to kind of see if we were to increase that uh increase that that levy. How far are you willing to go?

F

um Would you would you you know, have six uh 12, you know 24 people, how much of a levy increase. Would you be willing to stomach if we were to bring that forward and then, given the demographics question, you know if we could break it down that way. So maybe you don't do all those, but maybe one of those is possible to do, but I'd be interested in any of those. If you're able to do it.

M

A

Car's gonna be busy on saturday.

A

Anybody anyone else, any other suggestions.

A

Very good, I think, you've got plenty to work on or work with there. So I appreciate the uh the presentation uh appreciate the the uh discussion also on this asking for the suggestions, mr fabrega anything to add here. Jamie.

Q

A little slow on the switch. Mr mayor, um you know I I appreciate the questions that everybody has asked and um I uh share councilmember lowman's concerns about the inflationary impacts. uh What kari is talking about today is largely focused on our revenue projections and we have a decent grasp on where we're going to be on expenditures for 2023, because uh to an earlier question about, I think, was council member coulter about where uh what types of services or what types of costs are in within each of those departments.

Q

uh In organization wide people are about 70 to 72 percent of our total operating expense, and so, as we think about inflationary impact, we have a good grasp on what the what the labor costs are going to be.

Q

It's that remaining 28 to 30 percent, that we get a little bit nervous about, because that's our materials and supplies, and so we're going to be keeping a close eye on that. We'll see what the departments submit here over the next couple months, as they start to put their depart their uh their budgets together.

Q

You know we're obviously seeing some impact already just in pricing for projects as we go out and councils familiar with that we'll have a much better sense on the rest of it here relatively soon. So good questions that you proposed we're looking forward to getting out there and talking to folks about it and we'll certainly bring back more information when we have it.

A

Very good, thank you also any questions for mr verbroogie on that very good kari. Thank you. Thanks for your flexibility, thanks for popping in from india, appreciate it and appreciate your your work on all this and look forward to seeing you on saturday at the open house.

C

A

Right night have a good night, we'll finish up our agenda tonight with item 5.2, our city, council policy and issue update.

A

I will kick it off just as a for a recap of our uh council listening session that we held before the council meeting heard from three people again this evening, sally ness talked to us again uh specifically about a conditional use permit from uh back in the I think, 2011 time, frame or 2010 time frame and asking specifics about the uh the legality and the signatures, and so on some pretty specific kind of things, and we were working back and forth and I think we'll try and get to uh more details on that, as we have them in front of us either the uh the minutes from those meetings or the specifics on some of the agreements that she's talking about.

A

uh We did talk uh specifically trying to figure out uh exactly what we were trying to accomplish. With these discussions and and uh sally brought forward that she she believed, there were some issues when some of these conditional use permits were approved back in 2011, and she wants to make sure that uh the council and the city learn from those past mistakes and that we as we move forward. We don't do that again. I think that was what I heard as her.

A

Her main goal in this that she wants to move this forward and make sure that there are there aren't issues moving forward. uh We heard from phil cotton who is uh on our planning commission. uh He wasn't speaking to us as a planning, commissioner.

A

He was speaking to us as a writer of the metro blue line, and he expressed some significant concerns about how the quality of the service on the blue line has gone down and I'm not saying how quickly it gets to the stations, but rather the uh the the folks on the blue line and how it's being used and patrolled. He had concerns about smoking in the cars and trash and trash at the stations and illicit drug use, illegal drug use on the on the trains and just an overall feeling of unease.

A

I think and unsafety on the on the trains. We did talk about some specific steps that we could use to address those concerns.

A

We suggested that we could contact or or write a letter of concern to our metric met council representative, molly cummings, who uh former mayor of hopkins and to express those concerns and again ask what specific steps the met council could be taking.

A

We also heard from chief chief hodges that they were planning to and have done in the past, to station bloomington police officers on the trains, but in the bloomington station, so basically from mall of america up to 34th, not going into minneapolis and then turning around and coming back in just offering another opportunity to have a uniform presence on this on the trains and to make it uh to provide a bit more feeling of safety for the passengers. So I think there's there's. Definitely we all agree.

A

There's work to be done on that and we will definitely look into it and do what we can and we will um we'll report back as we hear more from from our counterparts on the met council and then natalie morose came forward and she had a specific question. Who is the correct person to contact if a property tax exemption is incorrectly filed? And mr sabol brought some good suggestions for the folks at the county, because the property taxes obviously would be a county issue?

A

We also suggested I'm sure matt gerschmaller, our city, assessor, could probably offer some suggestions as well. I haven't suggested from a customer service standpoint contacting debbie cattell our county commissioner, who probably has plenty of ideas about who would be best to address those questions, and so those were the three questions we had and those are the folks that we talked to this evening at our listening session.

A

I just have one more thing to add this evening. Is the bloomington police department open house this saturday, the 21st it's going from 11 to 11 a.m, to 2 p.m? Right here at civic plaza, I have an opportunity to tour the police station you'll be able to to look at some of the great apparatus that they have talk with folks in the uh the swat team or the bomb squad or the k-9 unit. Everybody loves the dogs, the dogs are the greatest, and so please do join us.

A

It's rain or shine saturday morning, good opportunity to get a look inside the police department, a very good opportunity to meet our new police chief booker t hodges. He has said he will take selfies with people as long as they are there. So he's got that to look forward to and uh we're looking forward to a good time uh at the uh the open house on saturday, and we really hope you'll join us there. So council, I will get to you in just a second.

C

Mr sable, uh thank you, mary council members. I just wanted to provide a brief update on the earn, sick and safe leave outreach that we have done.

C

I want to extend the appreciation and thanks to the mall of america staff for hosting three sessions with us, one with uh tenants, a direct tenant meeting where the city, staff and council member nelson were able to be present and talk about uh this issue, specifically as part of a forum, and then they also offered up uh direct space to do one-on-one, q and a's, and so I actually got to meet the folks from drool and moose and a few other uh local establishments in bloomington, really good, robust dialogue.

C

I mean there was one person who stayed for about 90 minutes or so just really specific questions on outreach, and then I also want to acknowledge that we are uh doing some engagement with a local group that has a connection to about 2000 actual employees of color in the community, and so we are going to do some direct outreach not only about what the ordinance would do, but more importantly, that um if it is passed that they would know how to use it and so really trying to develop some two-stage uh engagement.

C

So I really want to do two things number one tell you. The outreach is working number two extend appreciation and thanks to the mall staff for being good hosts.

A

Thank you, mr sable. Any questions about that from mr sable. No, mr fabrew, you turn your camera on. Did you want to chime in here.

Q

Thank you, mr mayor and council members. We do have a fuller rundown on the legislative session scheduled for the council meeting next monday night, but as council's aware, they're they're in the final throws here of trying to work things out, and uh there was an announcement uh earlier today that there seems to be a global agreement between the house and the senate and the governor's office.

Q

So hopefully they will be able to come to terms shortly and that's important, because one of the issues that we have is the request for the local option. Sales tax and this council is aware. We are in both of the tax bills. The senate tax bill has the full request.

Q

The house tax bill modified the request so that three of the four projects are in the house bill and hopefully that will get worked out in conference committee. So we are cautiously optimistic that if a tax bill is indeed agreed upon here in the next few days, that we'll have some clarity about where the bloomington request sits. So look forward to uh next monday night getting the full report on that at the end of session.

A

Thank you, mr ruge questions of mr verbuge council, anything to add tonight, council, member lowman.

F

I was just going to mention a couple of things one I wanted to thank uh councilmember coulter for bringing forward the uh the council pay uh piece. I know you've been uh leader on that and trying to champion that. I certainly appreciate you mentioning that, and I hope that we will find a way to to get it out of this. This body's uh hands, because it does seem like a conflict of interest.

F

So I I appreciate your your statements earlier um about that and then the the secondary thing I wanted to mention was that we did have our our diamond service awards uh over the weekend and um a number of us council members were able uh uh to attend, and I I realized.

F

We now have a new sheriff in town and that's our mayor here and he did a fantastic job of focusing in on food safety and uh how important that is and remembering and reminding us how important that is, and that's the heart of the awards and then just a number of folks showing up for the first time in a number of years, uh uh certainly highlighting the hospitality industry that we have here uh in the city of bloomington and how important that is, and I'm sure mayor. If you want to say anything else. No.

A

Thank you for bringing that up. Council member, I would just say hats off. First of all, to the bloomington convention and visitors bureau. They they. They are the only convention and visitors bureau in the country that does this type of award ceremony and it's just fantastic uh hats off to all the city staff that was there. I think it shows the support that the city has for the hospitality industry and, more than anything, hats off to the hospitality workers in the city of bloomington.

A

They are just the absolute foundation and bedrock of bloomington's reputation as a as a friendly uh destination world-class destination for people uh without those folks. It just would not happen and they just do outstanding work, and so it's always a great event. It was great to get back together again yeah councilmember d'alessandro.

G

I wanted to propose um something that we don't necessarily have to follow up on right now, but um because I don't know the answer to this, but I've been getting a couple of questions from constituents in my area around deer mitigation, and I think we met talked about this a little bit um before um I just don't know. I don't know what to tell people is what our policy is or um who they should call, because it's not us or you know whatever.

G

So if if we could, um if we could get some material together so that we can all be a little bit more educated, I mean it's a good problem to have in in one way in the sense that we have a a a thriving. You know natural area right, but it's also usually indicative of an imbalance in our predator prey uh function.

G

People like to talk about coyotes, but nobody really wants them in their backyard, but they do have a purpose um so anyway, if we could, if we could just get some understanding about that, so that if anybody else, I don't know if anybody else is hearing about it. But you know, given that tierney's woods and all that area is in my patch I hear about it a lot, so I would love to get some help with that.

C

Q

Thank you, mr mayor and council members, council, member d'alessandro.

Q

uh We um we used to have about five or six thousand dollars in our budget for deer mitigation and what that money typically went for was paying for a census, a deer count, and then I believe there was a little bit uh not so much that went to an outside group that helped with the thinning of the herd as it were.

Q

So I'd have to go back in the files and get the details on it, but the last time we did that was about four or five years ago, um and and we just we, we had a number of items that we were reducing budgets on back in 2017 or so 2018 and you're right. It's uh it's one of those things that ebbs and flows.

Q

So, typically, what happens is the deer census is done over the winter, because it's a lot easier to count them without leaves on the trees, and you have a typically a white background. So a lot of times it's an aerial survey and then often there'll be a an agreement with a like a bowhunters organization or some other group that will come in and and will coordinate the the thinning so we'll uh we'll do a little bit of uh research on on where that stands and when we get into the budget process.

Q

We'll bring that back as an item for council to consider.

G

Sure I appreciate that, and you know, there's also the just the function of um you know there are things you can do as a homeowner that uh help deter deer as well, and so I don't know if there's a need at this point. If this is just going to be one year's problem, bumper crop, if you will uh versus it's an ongoing thing, we might want to be more comprehensive in our approach, especially to folks who might be um sensitive or vulnerable to you know our furry friends. Thank you appreciate it. Thank.

A

You counsel anything else.

A

I see no hands going up council. I would entertain a motion to adjourn so moved. Second.

L

A

Have a motion by council mayor malone, second by council member martin, to adjourn tonight's meeting? No further council discussion on this. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries 7-0. We are adjourned. Thank you all very much. Thank you for your work tonight, thanks to staff, good job, everybody have a good evening.