►
From YouTube: Police CLA Negotiations - Day 1
Description
Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 9:00 AM MDT
A
We
like
to
start
these
meetings
with
everyone
just
introducing
themselves
and
then
I
think
adam's
going
to
go
over
the
ground
rules
just
to
make
sure
we're
all
on
the
same
page
and
we'll
proceed
from
there.
Just
a
reminder:
these
meetings
are
live
streamed,
which
means
you
have
to
talk
into
the
microphone
and
not
just
around
it
but
into
it.
So,
if
I
remind
you
to
talk
into
the
microphone,
it's
because
no
one
can
hear
you,
my
name
is
courtney
washburn.
I
am
the
chief
of
staff
for
the
city
of
boise.
I
All
right
so
danny
you
and
I
have
exchanged
ground
rules,
versions
back
and
forth,
and
I
think
we've
agreed
on
a
final
version.
So
maybe
we
can
just
briefly
run
through
them,
starting
with
the
roman
number
one.
The
schedule
of
negotiations
we're
obviously
starting
today
and
you
know
if,
if
either
party
ends
up
needing
to
cancel
or
reschedule
we'll,
that
request
will
be
made
through
each
other
and.
B
I
I
wanted
to
draw
attention
to
d
because
I
think
it
there's
a
provision
in
the
cla
that
says
all
proposals
will
be
exchanged
by
the
conclusion
of
the
second
bargaining
session.
I
think
we've
agreed
on
the
third,
and
so
are
we
agreeable
with
these
ground
rules
rather
than
what
the
cla
says,
or
do
you
want
to
exchange
all
proposals
by
the
end
of
the
second
we're.
E
Agreeable,
the
third
as
long
as
the
city
is
agreeable
that
when
it
comes
to
mediation,
if
it
goes
to
the
mediation
that
it's
going
to
be
the
third,
that
the
10
rules
or
the
10
proposals,
et
cetera
right
for
the
cla.
So
we're
good.
If
the
city
is
good
with
using
the
third
meeting
instead
of
the
second
meeting.
Yes,.
I
On
the
verbatim
notes,
so
we
agreed
that
we
would
do
have
used
the
software
that
allows
verbatim
notes
in
order
to
do
that,
just
to
make
it
clear
that
these
are
recorded
meetings,
they
have
to
be
recorded
in
order
for
those
notes
to
be
generated
and
if
they're
recorded
the
city's
required
to
keep
a
copy
of
the
recording
for
public
record
information.
If
someone
makes
a
request,
we
we
would
have
to
provide
it,
and
so
we
just
want
to
be
clear
about
that.
We're
not.
I
I
I
I
I
C
I
J
I
E
H
H
So
you
guys
have
you
guys
have
that
document
up
all
right,
so
my
thought
is,
we
would
just
go
through
and
scroll
down
at
the
areas
that
are
redlined
on
the
first
page,
we've
just
taken
out
the
dates,
obviously,
because
we
don't,
we
don't
know
which
dates
to
use.
Yet
at
this
point,
whether
we
want
to
discuss
or
look
at
how
long
of
a
contract
we
would
like
to
propose.
E
E
We
really
don't
want
to
commit
to
a
four
year
and
based
on
the
trends
of
inflation
and
stuff.
We
think
would
be
unfair
for
the
city
as
a
burden,
because
we
don't
really
know
what
those
property
assessments
and
the
revenue
is
going
to
look
like
in
three
to
four
years.
So
our
preference
would
be
two
year
contract
for
this
time
and
then,
depending
on
how
that
plays
out
in
the
future,
maybe
going
back
to
a
four
year,
but
we're
open.
I
And
I
I
think,
the
city's
in
agreement
with
that
as
well.
We
were
we're
asking
for
a
two-year
contract
with
fire
and
I
think,
for
the
same
reasons,
we
would
want
a
two-year
contract
with
police,
both
because
of
the
uncertainty
with
the
economy
and
also,
I
think,
it's
helpful-
to
negotiate
both
the
contract
and
the
police
and
health
fire.
The
fire
and
police
trust,
health
trust
at
the
same
time
or
approximately
the
same
time.
I
H
H
H
I
H
H
Moving
down
to
page
seven
in
section
d,
there
is,
it
speaks
about
the
rules
and
regulations,
and
I
had
redlined
the
areas
in
which
we
spoke
of
the
or
which
talked
about
the
civil
service
rules,
recognizing
that
the
civil
service
rules
in
the
civil
service
commission
is
no
longer
in
place
here
in
the
city
of
boise.
References
to
the
civil
service
rules
is
removed
and
just
clarified
to
recognize
how
everything
works,
without
actually
noting
the
civil
service
and
regulations.
In
the
paragraph.
H
H
It
was
deleted
from
that
section
and
actually
just
moved
to
section
six,
which
actually
speaks
to
working
conditions
and
felt
that
it
was
more
appropriate
in
that
section.
So
the
language
wasn't
changed
at
all.
It
was
just
moved
from
the
compensation
section
to
the
working
conditions
section
so
you'll
see
it
deleted
there,
but
then,
when
we
get
to
section
six
you'll
see
it
inserted
with
the
identical
language.
H
Where
it's
section
f,
which
talks
about
an
officer
missing
mandatory
paid
training,
I
just
redlined
out
the
last
part
of
the
last
sentence
which
talks
about
discipline
up
to
and
including
or
up
to
a
discipline
board.
Proceeding
now
that
the
corrective
action
policy
has
changed.
The
discipline
board
proceeding
that
section
technically
was
no
longer
applicable
in
this
sense,
and
so
I
just
removed
it.
H
E
We'd
like
to
probably
leave
some
of
that
in
there
in
some
capacity
to
in
a
way
that
it
would
correspond
with
the
matrix
or
speak
of
the
discipline
matrix.
That
way,
if
you
know
chiefly,
gets
run
over
by
a
bus
next
week
and
you're
with
them-
and
we
get
somebody
else
in
here-
that
mitigating
circumstances
are
no
longer
allowed.
E
H
We
want
to
make
sure
that
if
there's
an
acting
field,
commander
who's
backfilling
for
a
sergeant
that
the
administrative
pay
can
only
be
claimed
by
either
the
person
who's
in
the
acting
field,
commander
position
or
the
sergeant
who
works
it,
but
not
cumulatively,
both
now
they
could
split
it.
But
we
just
want
to
make
sure
that
there's
language
in
there.
H
H
H
E
H
On
page
24
and
section
11,
I
added
a
sentence
in
there
regarding
holiday.
Compensation
may
be
applied
as
pay
or
comp
time.
It's
my
understanding
that
that's
the
current
practice,
but
with
upcoming
retirements,
we
wanted
to
make
sure
that
it
was
memorialized
in
the
cla.
If
you
wanted
to
continue
that
practice,.
H
H
The
amounts
that
I
put
in
there
feel
free
to
check,
but
nothing
changed
from
the
amount
on
how
much
you
accrue
it's
just,
instead
of
it
being
on
a
monthly
which
is
not
how
the
payroll
system
works,
changing
it
to
a
per
pay
period
and
everything
else.
So
the
the
accrual
rate
remains
the
same.
It's
just
how
it's
actually
divvied
out
to
the
employees
would
be
per
pay
period
instead
of
on
a
monthly
basis.
E
H
H
G
E
H
H
On
page
37,
under
the
voluntary
mediation,
the
previous
section
identified
that
section
as
being
hearing
officer,
so
we
just
changed
it
from
voluntary
mediation
to
mediator.
So
there
are
two
choices
as
the
grievance
process
proceeds
forward
that
a
union
member
has
either
through
a
hearing
officer
or
through
a
mediator.
So
it
was
just
a
matter
of
changing
the
language
from
voluntary
mediation
to
mediator.
E
B
E
E
E
Yeah,
no,
we
intend
to
keep
it
the
same.
We
don't
intend
for
non-members
to
have
access
to
the
grievance,
whether
on
probation
or
not
probation.
If,
if
police
officers
are
not
part
of
the
union,
they're
not
part
of
the
cla,
they
they
get
the
benefit
of
some
of
it,
but
they
also
don't
get
the
grievance
process.
They
have
to
go
with
the
city
process,
so
we're
not
intending
to
change
that.
E
Yeah,
specifically
we're
talking
about
members,
the
discipline
matrix
is
contradictory
to
current
cla
contract,
in
the
sense
that,
if
I
promote
as
a
member
as
a
sergeant
and
I'm
on
probation,
the
way
that
current
policy
reads
on
the
discipline
side
is
that
the
grievance
process
has
not
afforded
me
as
a
probationary
sergeant,
and
we
want
to
clean
that
up
and
make
sure
that
even
members
that
are
sergeants
that
may
be
in
a
probationary
status
due
to
a
promotion,
have
access
to
that
grievance
process.
That's
our
intent.
E
A
If
you're
willing,
it
would
be
helpful
for
me
to
understand
some
of
the
background
and
your
thinking
in
bringing
the
proposal
and
then
I'm
assuming
the
city
would
like
the
opportunity
to
respond
to
this.
But
it's
helpful
for
me
to
get
some
of
your
thinking
and
some
of
the
background
for
the
proposal.
E
Yeah
absolutely
so
we
have
policies
that
dictate
how
disempowered
procedures
occur.
However,
there
is
no
guarantee
for
the
officers
to
be
notified.
There's
no.
An
inquiry
could
open
in
september
and
stay
open
until
february
march
april
may,
before
maybe
it
possibly
turns
into
an
inquiry.
We've
had
incidences
in
the
past
where
that's
been
abused,
so
the
goal
is
so
that
if
somebody's
getting
a
complaint,
they
know
hey
you're,
getting
a
complaint,
the
general
concept
of
the
complaint
when
this
occurred
and
who's
complaining.
E
If
that
information
is
available
and
we're
talking
non-criminal
complaints,
obviously,
so
we
want
to
clean
some
of
that
up.
I
think
officers
should
be
entitled
to
notification
that
they're
under
investigation-
and
I
think
that's
only
fair
and
so
secondly,
the
dislike,
I
said,
the
discipline
matrix
specifically
says
that
anybody
on
probation,
which
would
include
supervisors,
promoted
that
are
members.
E
So
really
what
we're
asking
for
is
a
little
more
skin
in
the
game
related
to
discipline.
Currently
we
have
policies,
but
those
policies
are
hard
to
be
followed
sometimes
by
the
internal
affairs.
So
our
intent,
especially
as
we
go
down
with
the
notifications
and
the
just
cause
and
the
clear
and
convincing.
Currently
the
standard,
is
preponderance
of
evidence.
E
Now
the
internal
affairs
and
the
department
typically
says:
if
it's
more
severe
discipline,
you
might
be
terminated
that
they
change
that
standard.
But
that's
not
in
writing.
That's
not
anything.
So
we
just
think
that
there
should
be
a
higher
standard
for
people
that
are
receiving
discipline
than
51
percent.
We
think
you
did
it
as
the
preponderance
of
evidence.
Rules
usually
apply
and
then
we've
had
a
bad
problem
of
internal
affairs.
E
Sending
mass
emails
like
30
emails
to
the
chief
saying
I
need
to
extend
these
30
30
cases
and
we
don't
think
that's
fair
to
our
members
and
we
think
that
the
they
should
be
held
to
a
higher
standard.
I
couldn't
do
that
as
a
detective
and
just
slough
off
my
investigations
for
a
long
period
of
time
without
receiving
discipline,
so
we
just
want
to
memorialize
it
in
a
contract
and
solidify
some
some
rights
for
the
officers
so
to
speak.
A
Thank
you,
that's
helpful.
Do
you
mind
if
I
repeat
that
in
my
language,
just
so
I
make
sure
I
understand
it'll
be
real
brief
sure
that
is
my
style,
so
the
goal
that's
intended
behind
this
proposal
is
a
better
understanding
of
the
intake
of
complaints,
the
notification
to
the
officer
who
gets
access
to
which
process
the
timeline.
So
the
resolution
on
the
complaint
and
the
standard
on
which
that
complaint
is
moved
forward
awesome.
Thank
you.
D
And
then,
if
I
can
just
add
in
there
that
the
one
piece
under
four
just
an
explanation
there,
because
it
refers
to
the
fraternal
order
of
police,
which
obviously
is
not
the
union
the
the
issue
we've
had
is,
if
we
have
a
member
who
chooses
not
to
use
a
union
attorney
in
the
investigation
or
process,
but
they're
going
to
go
through
the
grievance
process,
we
want
to
be
sure
to
be
able
to
have
a
union
representative
present
as
well,
because
the
union
grievance
process
is
what
we'll
be
using.
If
that
makes
sense.
E
Yeah
and
so
we've
had
some
complaints
from
internal
affairs,
because
we've
had
an
fop
attorney
and
a
union
representative
in
there
and
they're
unhappy
with
having
two
people
represent
the
officer.
So
we
wanted
to
memorialize
that
additionally
you'll
see
that
there's
definitions,
what
we
really
like
to
do
in
the
cla
is
provide
a
definitions,
glossary
on
some
of
the
terms
so
that
they
are
clearly
stated
and
defined
so
they're
not
ambiguous,
going
down
the
road
that
could
end
up
in
a
grievance,
etc.
E
H
I
would
have
to
look
at
and
give
consideration
to
all
the
circumstances
I
think,
generally
speaking.
Yes,
there
there
might
be
times
where
that
would
not
be
applicable.
But,
as
I
sit
here
now,
I
would
have
to
say
that
I'd
have
to
give
that
additional
consideration,
and
maybe
this
is
something
that
we
could
talk
about
further
after
a
caucus.
I
The
other
thing
that
comes
up
in
other
police
bargaining,
I've
had
is
is
often
times
a
complaint
might
come
in,
and
all
it
takes
is
a
quick
check
by
the
supervisor
to
realize
this.
This
complaint
about
this
officers
unfounded
this
officer,
wasn't
even
in
this
location
or
whatever,
and
are
you
still
wanting
notification
of
those
types
of
things
or
just
things
that
would
actually
result
in
an
investigation.
E
A
I
think
ben
we
do
need
to
revisit
the
timeline,
so
my
understanding
of
this
is
if
the
mayor's
office
gets
a
call,
that's
a
complaint
about
an
officer
which
we
do
on
a
friday.
Let's
say
at
four
the
turnaround
to
get
back
through
the
bpd
system
to
get
that
to
the
officer.
72
hours
is
probably
unreasonable,
but
we
can.
We
can
look
at
that.
E
F
J
E
C
A
A
E
A
H
H
H
I'll
say,
as
I
sit
here,
I
don't
disagree
with
what
you're
saying.
I
believe
that
training
I
mean
for
all
of
us
is
is
vitally
important
being
confined
in
this
specific
area
when
there
are
so
many
areas
that
that
require
training,
I
think
is,
is
a
little
narrow
in
focus
and,
as
I
said
here,
I'm
not
entirely
sure
that
the
cla
is
the
location
where
that
needs
to
be
documented,
but
possibly
through
policy
and
with
working
with
the
ted
division.
H
E
We
want
to
ensure
a
minimum
amount
of
training,
we're
not
saying
that
this
covers
all
the
training
needs,
or
this
is
the
only
training
that
we
should
have,
but
we're
saying
that
currently
ted
is
not
successfully
getting
this
job
done
for
us
is
what
we're
saying-
and
I
want
the
protection
in
the
current
state
of
affairs
for
the
world
for
and
for
the
citizens
for
officers
to
have
at
least
some
minimum
training.
That
is
a
guaranteed.
E
E
E
It's
a
starting
point
and
I
agree
that
policy
is
the
best
place
for
that
and
ted.
Is
the
group
that's
designed
to
do
that,
but
we
I'm
sure
you've
had
many
meetings
with
with
kyle
over
training
and
this
manpower
issues
and
the
headaches
that
it's
causing.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
guys
are
getting
trained.
A
Just
I
just
want
to
make
sure
I'm
clear,
so
this
body
of
training
you
have
determined
is
the
most
important
to
implement
minimum
standards
on
and
by,
I
think,
the
phrase
current
state
of
the
world.
You
believe
these
are
the
the
more
critical
or
life-saving
training
opportunities
that
we
need
to
ensure
provided
to
the
officers.
Do
I
have
that
right
because
you're
not
trying
to
cover
the
whole
body
of
minimum,
but
I'm
assuming
these
are
your
most
critical.
So
you
want
to
ensure
they're
happening
on
a
frequent
basis.
Yeah.
E
I
think
that
when
you,
yes,
I
think
that
these
are
a
minimum,
a
very
minimum
subject
that
needs
to
be
covered
for
the
citizens
and
for
liability
of
the
city
and
for
liability
and
safety
of
the
officers
that
we
need
to
have
at
least
something
that
we
can
protect
the
citizens
and
ourselves
without,
depending
on
overtime,
budgets
and
lack
of
manpower,
etc.
Sure.
E
You
know
I've
been
I've,
been
teaching
and
ran
the
training
academy
and
been
in
the
farms
and
training
world
for
over
20
years.
The
way
we
do
our
farms,
training
two
hours
is
pretty
pretty,
limiting
and
pretty
unsubstantial,
because
officers
get
there,
they
have
to
gear
up.
They
have
to
clean
up
that's
a
half
an
hour,
so
we're
getting
our
officers,
maybe
an
hour
and
a
half
of
training
times.
E
E
This
idea
we're
open
to
more,
obviously-
and
that's
why
we
said
it's
just
a
minimal
standard,
but
at
the
same
time,
honestly,
if
you
decided,
or
the
chief
decided
that
we're
only
going
to
do
a
qualification
annually
that
meets
the
post
requirements,
we
could
do
an
hour
of
training.
It's
just
unsatisfactory
to
our
citizens,
we're
doing
injustice
to
our
officers.
If
we
don't
have
some
kind
of
minimum.
E
E
H
E
Currently,
ada
county
does
four
full
days
of
training
on
the
farms
range
just
for
firearms,
so
they're,
looking
at
40
hours
of
firearms
training
annually
for
the
ada
county
sheriff's
department,
meridian
does
quarterly
four-hour
blocks.
So
it's
consistent
with
what
they're
doing
the
state
police
I'm
not
familiar
with
what
the
state
police
does.
D
E
So
currently,
our
sergeants
hispanic
control
is
very
substantial
anywhere
between
10
and
12
officers
are
supervising,
there's
a
significant
amount
of
responsibilities
that
they're
in
charge
of
it
has
a
tendency
to
drive
them
out
of
the
field
and
into
the
office.
What
we're
proposing
is
creating
a
rank
of
corporal
that
is
a
tested
supervisor
rank
that
will
be
covered
in
the.
E
What
will
be
the
new
civil
service
rule
sections
to
alleviate
some
of
the
responsibilities
and
free
up
the
sergeants
to
assist
and
provide
the
city
with
a
better
hispanic
control
to
manage
calls
in
the
field?
We
would
you
know,
based
on
the
civil
service
rules.
We
were
looking
to
implement
this,
not
this
first
year,
but
in
the
second
year
due
to
manpower
and
trying
to
come
up
with
sops
and
how
we
could
utilize
it.
E
But
our
goal
is
to
provide
some
training
for
them
as
supervisors
and
create
a
probationary
period
similar
to
the
sergeants,
with
training
similar
to
the
sergeants,
and
essentially
it
would
be
a
first-line
supervisor
and
and
the
goal
is
to
alleviate
some
of
the
responsibilities
of
the
sergeant
as
the
city
continues
to
grow
and
as
hispanic
control
continues
to
grow
to
grow.
So
we're
looking
to
generate
a
corporal
rank.
A
E
We
do
have
some
of
those
numbers
we
figured
on
covering
that
kind
on
the
compensation,
pay,
side
and
vetting
that
out
a
little
more.
We
anticipate
not
adding
ftes
to
the
organization
necessarily
but
utilizing
the
numbers
that
we
have
and
defining
those
roles
as
a
corporal
where
they
would
still
be
able
to
handle
calls
for
service,
but
also
act
as
a
supervisor
in
the
field,
and
so
we're
not
looking
to
uptick
the
fte
rate,
we're
just
looking
to
help
the
sergeants
out
some.
A
E
Additionally,
what
happens
now
is
most
supervisors
don't
have
time
to
read
all
the
reports,
so
they
say
this
person
writes
good
reports.
I
just
approve
it,
and
sometimes
that
can
cause
headaches
for
the
organization
and
the
officers
and
so
we're
looking
in
a
some
way
to
do
it.
So
currently
we
have
an
afc
capacity.
If
the
sergeant
is
gone,
knocking
field
supervisor
steps
in
and
acts
as
a
sergeant.
E
This
would
kind
of
alleviate
that
because
they
would
be
a
formalized
supervisor,
and
so
it's
a
little
bit
of
a
challenge
to
have
an
afc
where
today,
I'm
writing
a
two-man
car
or
handling
a
call
with
a
friend
of
mine
and
the
next
day.
I'm
handling
a
complaint
on
him
and
then
the
following
day,
I'm
back
to
being
his
peer,
and
so
we
want
to
try
to
formalize
that
role
and
that's
what
we're
looking
to
do
and
alleviate
some
of
those
responsibilities.
A
E
H
So
danny
I've
got
a
question
and
now
again
new
to
the
organization.
The
organization
I
previously
came
from
had
a
set
up
very
similar
to
this.
However,
coming
here,
I
recognize
that
we
probably
have
upwards
of
50
corporals
now,
and
so
my
question
to
you
based
on
this
language,
is
what
do
we
do
with
the
existing
corporals?
H
E
So
what
we
would
advocate
is
that
the
corporals
attrition
out
it's
a
current
pay
grade.
We
change
the
insignia
that
the
pay
grade,
corporals
have
perhaps
like
you've
seen
there's
a
chevrons
with
a
star.
Maybe
that
could
represent
the
actual
supervisor
and
people
that
are
current
corporals
like
myself
and
corporal
wills
corporal
and
aj.
Sorry,
I
didn't
want
to
downplay.
E
You
know
we
could
go
to
a
single
like
a
lance
corporal
military
style,
with
the
singles
chevron
until
until
you
retire,
etc,
and
so
one
would
signify
the
the
rank
of
pay
grade.
One
would
be
an
actual
supervisor
rank.
There's
there's
a
lot
of
ways
when
we're
very
open
to
how
we
do
that.
If
we
want
to
change
that
name
I
mean
most
of
the
members
are
not
necessarily
stuck
on
the
emotionally
attached
to
the
corporal
title.
E
It's
more
the
pay
grade
that
they're
attached
to
so
there's
there's
a
lot
of
ways.
We
can
resolve
that
and
we
understand
that
those
things
are
not
they're
going
to
play
out
in
the
next
year.
If
we
decide
to
go
down
this
path,
we're
just
looking
for
a
conceptual
commitment
and
how
we
can
play
that
out
for
a
future.
A
E
Yeah
in
our
next
proposal,
we
want
to
condense
the
pay
grades
and
restructure
that
whole
system.
So
we'll
show
you
during
that,
what
we're
kind
of
thinking
but
yeah
there
would
be
the
current
corporals
would
fall
into
what
we're
getting
ready
to
go
into
would
be
a
master
officer
pay
grade,
which
is
what
their
current
pay
grade.
Is.
You
know,
depending
on
the
how
these
events
turn
out,
but
the
corporal
would
actually
be
a
supervisor
would
be
a
tested
rank.
E
A
B
B
E
So
on
this,
we're
looking
to
condense,
this
pay
scale
to
be
more
in
line
with
national
standards
and
what
we're
looking
at
is
a
10-year
from
higher
to
10
years
pay
schedule
that
would
include
both
laterals
and
new
hires
all
into
one
scale.
We
currently
have
two
scales,
or
maybe
three
scales,
it's
pretty
confusing.
E
E
So
if
a
lateral
officer
was
hired
with
four
years,
they
would
start
at
a
two-year
pay
scale
and
to
try
to
simplify
it
down
on
the
appendix
a
which
is
a
revamp
of
the
current
appendix
a
we
have
the
months
of
service
and
the
grades
on
the
left,
which
we
talked
about
corporal.
If
we
go
down
that
road,
obviously
there's
a
supervisory
rank
and
it's
listed
over
there
there
would
be
two
ranks
of
corporal
corporal
ii
and
corporal
one
corporal
ones.
E
E
H
E
F
E
H
H
H
E
It's
a
difficult
matrix
to
try
to
figure
out
we've
had
so
in
the
26
years.
I've
worked
here:
we've
had
people
come
from
all
over
mostly
the
west,
large
cities,
small
cities
right
and
so
we've
gotten
officers
from
los
angeles
county
and
los
angeles
police
department
and
phoenix
and
seattle,
and
you
name
the
big
city.
Some
of
them
have
been
good.
Some
of
them
haven't
been
good
and
their
level
of
experience
and
their
their
time
and
service.
There
really
didn't
reflect
it
and
there
was
really
no
great
way
to
quantify
it.
E
E
The
current
administration
took
a
little
more
serious
and
upgraded
it,
and
then
you
had
guys
in
the
middle
that
are
causing
problems.
So
what
we're
looking
to
do
is
probably
alleviate
the
discretionary
side
and
just
hope
for
hiring
quality
people
and
taking
that
into
consideration
that,
if
you're,
a
lateral
officer
from
somewhere
we've
vetted
you
through
the
hiring
process
through
the
training
process
and
we're
hoping
that
you're
gonna
you're
gonna
come
in
and
be
a
solid
officer.
That's
why
we
hired
you,
so
I
I
I
really
kind
of
my
heart
is
on
both
sides.
E
I
was
a
ladder
officer
that
came
here
so,
but
we
don't
really
have
a
good
way
of
quantifying
it
and
we
really
want
to
take
the
discretion
away
from
the
organization,
no
offense
to
you,
because
the
next
chief
could
come
in
and
be
like.
No
we're
not
paying
our
laterals
for
their
experience.
We're
dropping
them
here
at
the
bottom
part
of
that
scale,
and
that
has
happened
before
so
we
figure
the
safest
way
to
do.
E
E
What
could
I
make
if
I
decide
to
move
to
boise
and
we
want
a
simple
format
so
when
they're
online
they
can
understand.
This
is
how
much
I'm
gonna
make.
Okay.
Can
I
afford
that?
Can
I
make
my
plans
on
that?
Not
what
will
the
chief
of
he
hires
me
bring
me
in
at
which
is
very
discretionary,
so
that's
kind
of
our
thought
process
behind
it,
but
we
are.
We
are
open
on
the
lateral
side,
it's
not
something
we're
hardcore
on.
We
just
try
to
have
a
way
to
quantify
it.
E
Yeah,
no,
we
we,
we
we're
all
in
agreement
on
that.
So
on
on
the
actual
levels,
we
are
open
to
changing
the
months
of
service
for
different
levels.
We
just
tried
to
pick
levels
that
we
thought
were
appropriate
as
far
as
service
and
we're
open
to
suggestions
on
changes.
If,
if
the
deputy
chief
has
some
some
thoughts
on
that
down
the
road,
it's
not
something
we're
hardcore
on
it's
just.
E
H
H
Maybe
two
people
coming
in
at
the
same
time,
eight
nine
ten
years
later
may
not
be
producing
the
same
amount
of
work
may
not
be
in
the
same
place
within
their
career
and
and
the
additional
responsibilities
ancillary
duties
that
they're
taking
on.
You
believe
that
those
two
people,
just
by
mere
virtue
of
them,
coming
in
at
the
same
date,
are
entitled
to
the
same
pay
while
one
might
be
significantly
outperforming
the
other.
E
E
B
C
And
then
one
other
question-
and
this
may
come
later,
but
understanding
your
view,
you
know
how
do
we
migrate
from
the
current
structure
to
the
new
structure
will
help
inform
how
we
cost
out.
You
know
what
what
that
might,
what
that
might
do.
So
maybe
that
comes
later
with
your
economic
proposal,
but
that
would
be
helpful.
E
Yeah
I
mean
we,
we
have
an
idea
of
where
we
want
those
how
that
would
transition
over
to
this,
which
obviously
involves
this
pay
grade
would
go
to
here,
and
those
are
those
are
economic
costs
based
on
the
number
of
employees
et
cetera,
so
you
know
we
plan
on
addressing
that,
so
to
speak
in
the
future.
Great.
Thank
you.
F
E
H
E
But
what
we
are
finding
is
that,
for
example,
with
the
taser,
you
have
to
be
very
diligent
with
putting
in
the
sleep
mode
because
the
range
of
the
taser,
so
I'm
in
the
locker
room
and
if
a
female
is
in
the
female
locker
room
and
she
activates
her
taser
and
it's
not
or
activate
my
taser
and
it's
not
in
sleep
mode.
It
has
a
potential
for
turning
it
on
and
then
we
have
to
go
through
this
whole
process.
E
Additionally,
we
don't
feel
that
there's
any
real
value
for
a
supervisor
to
remotely
activate
the
body
camera
at
any
time
or
when
and
so
we're
willing
to
discuss
that
in
the
future.
But
as
we
stands
right
now,
unless
the
department
has
something
in
line
or
on
on
on
the
works,
we
just
feel
like
it's
a
working
condition
and
we
want
to
limit
that
working
condition
with
at
this
point
in
time
and
potentially
in
the
future,
look
to
change
it.
E
E
My
concern
is:
why
should
you
be
able
to
remotely
access
it
when
I'm
at
my
house
having
lunch,
my
wife
might
be
in
her
pajamas
or
something
like
that.
So
we
want
to
just
make
sure
that
the
organization
is
we're.
We
fully
support
heaven
body
cameras.
We
fully
support
that.
That's
a
big
part
of
the
trust
we
fully
support
using
them
and
we
think
that's
a
great
tool
in
law
enforcement.
But
what
we
don't
want
to
do
is
go
down
the
road
of
yeah
every
time
you
exit
your
car.
E
This
turns
on
every
time
this
happens
or,
like
I
said,
I'm
at
my
house
on
lunch
break
and
you
remotely
access
it.
You
know
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
so
we
just
feel
like
it's
a
working
condition
and
we
feel
like
we
want
to
limit
to
what
we're
doing
now.
Now,
if
the
city
or
the
department
has
something
on
on
on
on
the
works
related
to
changing
that,
we
can
discuss
it,
but
we
want
to
limit
it.
Yes,
okay,.
D
H
E
So,
given
the
current
system,
if
I
go
to
the
restroom-
and
I
forget
to
hit
it
on
sleep
mode
and
you're
in
the
briefing
room
and
you
activate
the
taser,
it's
going
to
videotape
me
going
to
the
restroom
and
so
there's
some
privacy
issues
that
we
we
have
now.
The
department
does
have
a
current
policy
that
you
know
those
can
be
alleviated.
What
that
requires
for
the
supervisor
to
watch
it
and
internal
affairs
to
watch
it,
and
we
just
want
to
like.
E
F
E
H
E
H
E
I
H
A
A
A
H
H
E
Yeah,
I
think
the
reason
that
it's
originally
in
there
in
that
manner
was
because
we
were
battling
with
the
replacement
of
positions
for
civilian
positions,
so
we'll
we'll
definitely
table
that
and
figure
out,
if
there's
a
better
way
to
say
it.
But
we
want
to
ensure
that
we're
not
replacing
sworn
positions
with
civilian
positions
in
some
capacity.
But
outside
of
that,
I
think
it's
a
concept
that
we're
open
to.
H
So
it
would
be
handled
under
the
current
corrective
action
guide.
So
basically,
this
is
the
removal
of
their
there's
language
in
here
about,
in
addition
to
any
sort
of
disciplinary
action
that
someone
could
receive
for
failing
to
appear
in
court.
Without
a
justifiable
excuse,
there
was
an
additional
penalty
of
three
hours
annual
leave
on
the
first
offense
in
six
hours.
This
is
just
removing
that
language
completely
and
so
failure
to
miss
court
would
be
subject
to
the
corrective
action
guide,
just
like
any
other
alleged
misconduct.
J
H
Sure
so
this
is
regarding
the
removal
of
the
scheduling
pilot
language.
That's
currently
located
in
the
cla,
and
the
proposal
is
just
to
remove
this
language.
Allowing
us
greater
flexibility
in
the
schedule,
as
we
look
at
as
the
city
continues
to
grow
as
our
staffing
changes,
as
the
volume
of
calls
for
service
that
we're
responding
to
is
we're
looking
at
a
more
data-driven
model
in
where
we're
able
to
reallocate
our
staffing
resources
to
be
most
effective,
to
provide
a
high
level
of
service
to
our
community.
E
E
I
understand
where
you're
coming
from
and
I
think
that
having
a
more
data
driven
system
is
beneficial
to
us
as
well
as
you
and
the
citizens,
and
so
I
think
we
are
amenable
to
something,
but
without
this,
unless
we
change
the
language
in
the
cla
schedules,
the
schedule
and
you
wouldn't
be
able
to
to
adopt
it.
So
historically,
this
was
kind
of
put
in
there
to
try
to
have
a
loophole,
so
we
can
try
something
or
the
administration
maybe
come
up
with
an
idea
that
we
could
go
around.
E
So
I
think
we
would
definitely
want
to
create
something
that
says
that
we
can
do
that
and
guarantee
our
schedules,
our
schedule,
but
have
that
option
open
and
so
we'll
have
to
figure
out
on
account
of
proposal,
maybe
or
some
language
cleanup
how.
We
really
want
that
to
look,
because
I
think
we're
all
on
the
same
page
with
that.
But
by
letter
the
cla
says
this:
this
is
our
schedule.
So
if
we
don't
change
that,
then
we're
stuck
with
the
schedule
until
the
next
negotiations
sure
and.
H
E
It's
definitely
out
of
place.
We
just
we
just
probably
will
figure
out
a
way
that
we
would
like
the
city
to
be
able
to
come
up
with
ways
to
hey.
This
is
a
better
potential
system,
or
perhaps
we
could
come
up
with
some
ideas
and
still
be
able
to
go
down
that
road
and
explore
that.
So
I
think
conceptually
we're
we're
on
the
same
sheet
of
music.
We
just
got
to
figure
out
how
that
looks.
H
Okay,
so
this
is
a
proposal
that
speaks
about
removing
language
that
mandates
the
amount
of
time
in
which
a
vacant
position
for
sergeant
needs
to
be
filled
within
30
days.
We're
looking
to
remove
that
language
to
give
the
department
greater
flexibility
as
we
work
with
various
scheduling
options
and
departmental
needs.
A
E
E
H
H
What
shift
you're
on
and-
and
you
know,
all
the
behind
the
scenes
thing
things
that
work
from
where
your
current
assignment
is:
there's
a
lot
of
staff
hours
that
are
put
into
making
those
changes
three
times
a
year,
and
so
the
intent
behind
this
is.
If
you
go
in
on
one
druther
period,
you
can
actually
pick
your
first
six
month
period
and
your
second
six
month
period,
which
gives
the
officer
knowledge
of
exactly
what
shift
they're
going
to
be
working
the
entire
year
as
well
as
a
department.
H
So
it
gives
the
department
and
the
officers
a
greater
vision
of
what
the
entire
year
looks
like
and
then
any
changes
that
need
to
be
made.
After
that
fact
that
gives
administratively
all
of
that
work
can
be
done
at
one
time
and
then
any
changes
that
happen
throughout
the
year.
It's
only
changing
a
few
people
versus
having
to
change
the
entire
patrol
teams.
E
E
E
H
E
D
D
So
if
somebody
druthers
under
your
your
proposal
here
for
a
july
shift
in
november,
and
then
we
end
up
with
a
motor
opening
and
that
gets
filled,
and
we
end
up
with
two
people
that
decide
to
retire
last
minute
so
come
july,
I
could
see
druthers
being
a
a
mess
from
what
they
were
back
in
november,
because
so
much
changes
in
seven
months.
So
what
would
be
the
the
way
to
address
that.
H
And
I
would
say
that
the
example
that
you
used
is
perfect,
because
you
know
one
person
retires
or
one
person
you
know
goes
to
a
special
assignment
motors
per
se.
Two
people
retire
we're
talking
about
only
having
to
alter
the
schedule
three
people,
and
so
we
can
make
those
changes
and
we're
only
you
know,
impacting
potentially
three
people
as
far
as
filling
potential
shifts.
I
think
a
consideration
could
be
given
to
using
people
who
are
on
probation
to
make
certain
movements.
If
you
know
changes
need
to
be
made.
H
You
know,
obviously
someone
who
has
seniority
who
bid
on
a
shift
wouldn't
be
bumped
from
that
shift,
but
we
can
utilize
people
who
are
on
probation
to
make
necessary
changes.
But
again
the
impact
on
the
department
administratively
and
I
think
on
everybody-
is
much
less
when
you're
dealing
with
maybe
a
handful
of
people
versus
everybody.
A
I
think
the
question
is:
were
those
all
the
proposals
the
city
was
prepared
to
present
today
and
if
so,
I
think,
and
the
best
use
of
time
would
be
to
break
for
lunch
and
just
assume
caucusing
for
the
rest
of
the
afternoon
to
prepare
for
next
week.
Unless
you
would
like
to
bring
something
new
after
lunch,
did
we
give
you
enough
to
work
on
and.
A
E
H
Well,
there's
a
financial
aspect
to
people
being
able
to
accrue
and
and
have
up
to
480
hours.
I
think
that
I'm
not
really
in
a
position
to
speak
of,
I
think
finance
can
I
know
the
other
aspect
from
a
departmental
standpoint
would
be
recognizing
our
current
staffing
and
the
amount
of
comp
time
that's
being
used
and
how
we're
filling
those
shifts.
I
think
we're
trying
to
just
get
something
more
controllable.
C
So
the
financial
perspective
isn't
isn't
material
and
we
don't
have
numbers
to
share
right
now.
You
know
it's
my
understanding,
I
mean
financially
I'll,
give
you
the
logic
and
then
we
can
talk
numbers
later.
But
if
you
accrue
compensatory
time
now
and
take
it
later,
then
there
is
potential
for
pay
rate
changes
between
now
and
later.
That
is
a
small
compensation
change
that
that's
not
driving
the
proposal.
It's
it's
a
consideration
in
harmony
with
the
proposal.
E
You're
asking
us
to
bear
when
it's
a
burden
that,
when
it's
actually
created
by
past
administrations-
and
you
know
some
of
those
kinds
of
things
so
it'll
be
definitely
be
a
challenge
for
us
to
even
get
that
low
with
our
membership.
You
know,
because
we
are
I'm
representing
225
guys-
and
this
is
a
big
big
issue
for
them,
and
some
of
those
issues
that
they
come
up
with
are
what
kind
of
guarantees
we
have
on
vacation.
E
E
In
the
2016
it's
conceptually
approved,
but
there
is
no
process
for
it.
There's
no
forms
for
it.
There's
no
means
of
doing
it.
So
if
I
walked
into
my
sergeant
said,
how
do
I
do
this?
They
would
be
like
we
have
no
idea,
okay,
so
and
then
the
protections
on
the
annual
side.
You
know
many
organizations
will
say
hey
if
you
are
90
days
out
and
you
put
in
vacation
time,
it's
locked
in
or
you
know,
those
kinds
of
protections.
H
And
I
think
there
could
be
some
further
discussions
to
be
had,
because
I
would
believe
that
there
should
be
some
level
of
protection
from
if
we're
going
to
allow
you
to
put
that
time
in
some
level
of
protection.
For
that,
so
I
think
there's
further
discussion
that
could
be
had
in
that
yeah.
There
we
go.
E
C
C
So
one
other
dimension,
you
know,
could
be
financially.
I
mean
the
unpredictability
of
who's
coming
in
it
can
precipitate
more
over
time.
So
that's
another
dimension
that
I'd
need
to
study
a
little
bit
more
more
thoroughly
to
understand.
You
know
what
what's
the
unpredictability
of
using
comp
time.
How
is
that
influencing
correct
having
to
call
people
in
for
over
time
so.
E
H
Okay-
and
I
could
tell
you
from
my
perspective,
I'm
looking
at
it
more
from
the
departmental
management
side,
but
I
do
recognize
that
there
is
a
financial
aspect
and
burden
to
it
as
well,
and
you
know
sometimes
I
know
biff.
It
talked
about
accruing
comp
time
and
then
you
know
being
paid
out
on
at
a
higher
rate,
there's
also
with
additional
comp
time.
H
There's
a
compounding
issue
if
someone
is
filling
a
vacancy
that
was
created
by
comp
time
and
then
they
take
comp
time
on
top
of
that,
there's
a
compounding
issue
that
sure
works
with
that
as
well
and
so
trying
to
to
limit
that
exposure.
I
think
not
only
from
the
departmental
side
but
from
a
finance
side
is
what
we're
trying
to
accomplish
here.
E
E
That
kind
of
stuff
and
then
we'll
we'll,
take
under
consideration
the
management
side.
You
know,
but
you
have
to
realize
that
this
is
a.
I
know
we
have
the
most
amount
afforded
by
law
and
that's
a
big
right
that
we've
fought
for
over
a
long
time,
and
we
understand
it's
a
big
headache
for
the
city,
but
it's
probably
one
of
the
best
benefits
we
have.
So
it
comes
at
a
cost
for
us.
So
we'll
have
to
try
to
work
on
that.
A
G
B
And
just
like
biff
will
be
providing
some
additional
research
for
to
inform
you
all
on
any
potential
counter
proposal.
On
the
the
last
proposal
we
discussed
you'd
be
providing
the
research
to
support
proposal
c
from
the
other
agencies,
where
you
pulled
the
information,
correct,
cool
okay.
That
was
that
was
my
last
cleanup,
so
I
lied
and
then
I
believe
there
we
had
a
ta
on
city's
proposal
number
one
and
we'll
be
printing.
That
out.
I
want
to
confirm,
but
you
said
you
had
no
objection,
but
I'd
also.