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From YouTube: Public Works Commission - Sept. 1, 2021
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A
Hello,
everybody
I'm
going
to
call
this
meeting
of
the
public
works
commission
into
order,
and
we
will
start
with
a
calling
of
the
role.
Commissioner
morgan,
I'm
here,
commissioner
collette.
A
A
Any
opposed
motion
carries
awesome.
I
would
also
like
to
recognize
our
city
council
members,
council,
member
bajan
and
council
member
halliburton
for
being
with
us
today,
and
we
will
move
on
to
our
regular
agenda
items
and
it
looks
like
up.
First
is
an
update
on
the
water
renewal
fund
bond
election
and
I
will
turn
it
over
to
staff
for
the
presentation.
D
Thank
you,
chair
gravette.
What
I
like
to
do
for
the
commission
is
share
a
presentation
that
I
gave
to
city
council
back
on
august
17th.
That
was
the
evening
of
the
first
reading
of
the
bond
ordinance
and
more
just
provided
an
update
to
the
commission.
D
No
action
needed
it's
just
providing
the
latest
on
the
bond
election
bond
amounts,
timing
and
the
schedule
and
everything.
So
I
just
wanted
to
present
this
information
and
then,
during
the
the
legal
update
from
our
attorney
mary
grant,
she's
going
to
get
into
some
of
the
details
of
the
do's
and
don'ts
of
bond
elections
for
commissioners.
D
Okay,
so
on
the
17th
I
presented
information
to
council
just
to
give
them
information
on
what
was
in
the
bond
ordinance.
But
before
I
jumped
into
that,
I
spent
some
time
talking
about
past
community
investments
and,
frankly,
didn't
do
a
very
good
job
in
part,
because
the
slide
didn't
pop
up.
D
But
also
I
didn't
explain
that
that
what
you
see
on
the
left
there
is
a
fresh
water
muscle.
That's
a
very
good
thing
and
I'll
explain
why
here
in
a
second,
but
let
me
set
that
context
first,
that
that's
a
very
good
thing
that
what
we're
looking
at
on
the
screen
is
is
suggesting
that
there's
very
high
quality
water
in
the
boise
river,
so
the
community
has
for
for
decades,
paid
monthly
sewer
bills.
D
That
revenue
comes
into
our
department
into
the
water
renewal
fund
and
we
use
that
to
build
the
facilities
maintain
the
facilities
operate.
The
facilities
that
provide
the
treatment
for
wastewater
those
past
community
investments
have
been
paying
off
and,
and
one
of
the
indications
that
we
have,
that
suggests
they
are
paying
off.
D
Is
that
fresh
water
muscle
that
you
see
on
the
left
part
of
the
slide,
that
is
specimen
number
18
and
it's
important
because
about
a
year
and
a
half
ago,
two
years
ago
we
started
finding
freshwater
mussels
in
the
boise
river
and
that's
a
big
deal.
That's
suggesting
that
the
health
of
the
river
is
is
is
good.
I
was
up
on
the
salmon
river
a
couple
of
weeks
ago
and
when
you're
up
there
you
can,
you
can
see
clusters
of
freshwater
mussels.
That's.
D
Of
a
high
quality
river,
the
importance
of
specimen
number
18
here
is
that
it
was
found
downstream
of
our
water
renewal
facilities.
This
is
this.
This
little
guy
was
found
by
the
linda
bridge,
which
is
downstream
of
both
the
lander
street
and
the
west
boise
facility,
suggesting
that
the
the
water
quality
downstream
of
our
facilities
are
just
as
good
as
are
getting
better
and
approaching
what
we
would
see
upstream
of
the
facilities.
D
So
that's
really
good
news,
so
the
the
investments
that
we've
made
at
lander
street
at
west
boise
at
the
phosphorus
removal
facility
at
dixie
drain
those
are
all
leading
to
improved
water
quality
in
the
river.
So
so
we're
proud
of
that,
and
so
those
past
community
investments
are
paying
off.
But
as
we
move
forward,
future
investments
are
needed.
We
start
off
by
certainly
acknowledging
that
wastewater
treatment
is
an
obligation
that
we
have
under
the
clean
water
act
about
2015
time
frame.
D
We
estimated
the
replacement
value
of
the
water
renewal
system.
We
estimated
it
back
then
at
about
2
billion
dollars
well
based
on
interest
and
based
on
increased
construction
costs.
If
we
were
to
try
to
replace
the
system
today,
that's
nearly
a
three
billion
dollar
proposition,
so
we
have
about
three
billion
dollars
in
existing
assets
in
the
system.
D
As
we
move
forward,
we
need
to
make
investments
in
the
water
renewal
system
very
significant
capital
investments.
We
need
to
build
build
things,
so
the
primary
driver
moving
into
the
next
20
years
is
proactive,
repair
and
replacement
of
the
existing
system.
Almost
50
percent
of
our
upcoming
costs
are
just
related
to
repairing
and
replacing
the
treatment
facilities
and
the
piping
network.
That's
under
the
city,
so,
for
example,
lander
street
was
built
in
1949.
D
West
boise
was
built
in
76
and
then
we
have
almost
1
000
miles
of
pipe
the
oldest
being
installed
in
1898,
at
least
that,
according
to
our
records,
the
lander
street
facility
we've
already
started
to
replace
we're
in
phase
one
with
the
very
beginning
of
replacing
that
facility
phase.
One
should
be
complete
next
year.
It's
on
budget
or
I'm
sorry
on
schedule
and
under
budget.
So
good
news
story
there
and
over
the
next
20
years,
we'll
be
replacing
lander
street
in
full
and
then
once
that's
done,
we've
got
to
pivot
over
to
west
boise.
D
That
was
built
in
76,
and
some
of
those
parts
of
that
plant
are
aging
out
as
well
and
then
certainly
the
thousand
miles
of
pipeline
under
the
city.
Some
of
that
is
aging
out.
The
pictures
to
your
left
are
the
joplin
main
that
goes
into
west
boise.
The
top
picture
is
before
replacement.
You
can
see
those
lines.
Hanging
down
are
gaskets.
D
We
have
some
groundwater
coming
into
the
pipe,
and
so
that
was
a
priority
for
replacement.
We
got
that
line
replaced
so
down
below
is
the
2018
kind
of
after
picture
of
the
joplin
main
replacement.
That's
just
an
example
of
the
types
of
projects
that
we
need
to
pursue
moving
forward.
We
do
a
good
job
of
maintaining
the
system,
but
there
just
comes
a
time
where
you
you
just
need
to
replace
it,
not
unlike
a
roof
on
a
house
there's
only
so
many
patches
you
can
make
before
you
just
got
to
replace
it.
D
There
are
other
funding
drivers.
We
have
community
expectations,
we
heard
very
clearly
from
the
community.
They
expect
us
to
help
address
climate
issues
and
one
of
the
things
we
can
do
there
is
by
diversifying
our
water
supply
and
so
we're
going
to
start
pursuing
a
recycled
water
program
for
any
new
capacity
that
we
add,
we
do
have
additional
regulatory
requirements
in
the
future.
D
We
need
to
add
about
10
million
gallons
per
day
of
additional
capacity
over
the
next
20
years
to
meet,
to
meet
growth
and
to
to
be
able
to
promote
economic
development,
and
so
how
do
we?
How
do
we
pay
for
these
improvements
that
were
that?
We've
developed
and
predicted
and
put
into
our
plan
the
water
renewal
utility
plan.
D
So
one
of
the
approaches
that
we
are
considering
and
and
moving
forward
with
is
bond
financing,
and
so
why
would
we
consider
bond
financing?
I
have
a
list
of
four
bullets
there.
It
takes
advantage
of
historically
low
interest
rates.
The
cost
of
capital
right
now
is
very
low.
The
city
of
nampa
was
able
to
get
a
deq
state
revolving
fund
loan
at
an
interest
rate
of
1.68
percent.
It's
extremely
low
interest
rate.
Now,
whether
we
could
get
that
same
one,
not
sure,
but
but
we're
hopeful
to
get
a
competitive
interest
rate.
D
If
we
can
get
approval
from
the
the
voters
for
for
bond
financing,
it
could
give
us
access
to
new
funding
sources,
so
we'd
be
able
to
access
the
deq
state
revolving
fund
loan
program
we'd
be
able
to
access
the
epa's
wifi
loan
program.
That's
a
loan
direct
from
the
treasury
again
at
those
low
interest
rates.
So
we're
hopeful
that
if
we
can
get
the
yes
vote,
that
we
can
go
seek
out
new
sources
of
funding
that
we
have
not
had
access
to
in
the
past,
because
we
didn't
have
the
ability
to
take
on
bond
financing.
D
Certainly
I'll
show
you
a
graphic
here
in
a
second.
It
reduces
upfront
rate
increases.
That's
a
an
affordability
question
for
us.
We're
hopeful
that
if
we
get
the
yes
vote
on
the
bond
that
we'll
be
able
to
keep
up
for
upfront
rate
increases
low
and
we
think
bond
financing
aligns
costs
with
those
benefiting
from
new
infrastructure
in
the
future.
We
refer
to
this
as
intergenerational
equity,
so
that
if
we
paid
cash,
we
would
front
load
the
cost
burden
on
current
rate
payers.
D
So
the
total
bond
amount
that
we're
requesting
from
from
permission
from
the
voters
to
seek,
is
up
to
570
million
dollars
to
be
financed
over
30
years
and
that's
570
million
dollars
to
be
the
debt
amount
in
the
next
10
years.
So
we
would,
in
the
next
10
years,
seek
an
amount
of
570
and
that
570
would
be
financed
over
30
years
and
that
570
number
came
from
multiple
sources.
We
have
construction
cost
estimates,
we've
been
talking
with
contractors
in
the
valley
on
cost
escalation
and
what
they
see
coming
in
the
future.
D
So
we
try
to
account
for
that
in
that
number
and
then
also
the
increased
inflation
that
we're
seeing
here
in
the
near
term
is
also
a
way
that
developed
that
the
way
that
we
developed
that
570
number.
So
what
we'll
be
putting
on
the
bond
ballot
is
requesting
permission
from
voters
to
borrow
up
to
570
million
dollars
and
I'll
go
through
in
a
second
here
on
what
a
yes
vote
and
a
no
vote
means.
D
This
is
the
proposed
ballot
language.
I
won't
read
that
to
you
in
detail.
I
would
just
direct
you
to
that
last
sentence.
That's
really!
The
crux
of
the
of
the
question:
shall
the
city
of
boise
city
idaho,
be
authorized
to
keep
sore
customer
rate
increases
low
by
issuing
and
selling
one
or
more
series
of
revenue
bonds
up
to
570
million
dollars
over
the
next
10
years?
D
D
So,
based
on
that
ballot,
language,
what
does
a
yes
vote
mean
and
what
does
a
no
vote
mean?
The
yes
vote
authorizes
bond
funding
up
to
570
million
dollars.
It
provides
access
to
new
funding
sources,
as
I
mentioned,
the
deq
srf
as
an
example
and
then
results
in
lower
upfront
rate
increases.
A
no
vote
indicates
a
preference
for
cash
funding.
It
rejects
bond
funding,
but
not
the
projects.
We
still
have
to
get
these
projects
done.
D
The
two
rows
going
across
the
top
row
is
a
yes
vote,
so
it
would
be
cash
and
bond
financing
and
then
the
bottom
row
is
a
no
vote.
A
cash
only
financing,
and
so
the
yes
vote
would
be
a
rate
increase
in
22
of
9.9
percent,
and
you
can
see
the
estimates
for
rate
increases
in
the
out
years
and
then
a
no
vote.
Cash
only
is
up
to
53
and
22,
and
then
you
can
see
the
projected
rate
increases
in
the
out
years,
based
on
current
cost
estimates.
D
D
We
just
got
the
final
reading
from
with
the
ordinance
with
council
yesterday
and
that
was
approved
yesterday
evening
on
the
31st,
we're
working
through
some
deadlines
in
the
election
process,
with
ada
county
all
working
towards
election
day
on
november
2nd
and
then
throughout
that
we'll
be
providing
community
education.
D
D
Chair
gravatt,
commissioner
ellis
sure,
so
we're
standing
up
things
like
web
pages,
we'll
have
frequently
asked
questions
we'll
you
know
be
offering
to
meet
with
anybody
that
wants
more
information
on
on
the
bond
election,
making
sure
that
we're
sticking
to
the
education
piece
you
know
colin
feel
free
to
jump
in
here.
Colin
hickman
within
public
works
is
helping
set
this
up,
but
there's
a
lot
of
components
that
will
be
part
of
the
community
education
piece,
colin.
E
Yes,
chair
gravatt,
commissioner,
so
the
I
think
the
other
big
one
steve
steve
hit
on
a
number
of
them,
but
I
think
the
other
big
one
and
perhaps
our
our
best
way
to
get
directly
to
eligible
voters
would
be.
We
are
planning
on
two
direct
mail
pieces
to
all
eligible
voters
that
would
go
out
in
mid
to
early
october
and
then
another
one
in
late
october,
and
so
that
would
that
would
be
sent
mailed
to
every
eligible
voter
within
boise.
F
E
A
A
question
that
I
believe,
councilmember
sanchez
raised
that
was
illuminating
to
me
in
the
council's
discussion,
was
who
will
be
eligible
to
vote
in
this
bond
election.
Now
that
the
city
of
boise
has
council
districts-
and
if
I
recall
correctly,
this
will
be
almost
the
entire
city,
regardless
of
which
district
you
are
in
will
be
eligible
to
vote
minus
a
small
population
in.
What's
it
southwest
boise,
that's
in
another
area
of
impact.
D
G
Chair
gravadan
commissioners,
in
response
to
your
question
and
what
was
presented
to
city
council
is
that
the
districting
for
city
council
elections
will
have
little
to
no
effect
on
the
electorate.
For
this
particular
bond.
G
All
eligible
voters
in
boise
city
will
be
allowed
to
vote
with
this
small
exclusion
of
west
boise
sewer
district
residents,
and
that
is
because
that
is
its
own
independent
sewer
district
with
its
own
authority
to
make
assessments
set
rates.
They
also
are
authorized
to
hold
their
own
elections
if
they
were
to
want
to
issue
their
own
bonds.
G
So
the
city's
authority,
as
it
relates
to
these
revenue
bonds
and
its
sewer
system,
does
not
extend
to
the
authority
over
the
west,
boise
sewer
district,
and
so
that's
been
the
conclusion
in
working
with
the
county
in
terms
of
coming
to
that
sort
of
resolution.
Regarding
our
elected
electorate,
excuse
me.
A
Awesome
thank
you
for
that
clarification
and
I
believe
that
commissioner
crowley
had
a
hand
up.
Did
you
still
have
a
question.
H
D
Chair
gravatt,
commissioner
crowley,
thank
you
for
the
question
we
we
did
not
in
part
because
the
way
our
utility
billing
system
works
is
we.
We
work
on
a
kind
of
a
two-month
basis
and
unfortunately,
we
would
not
have
had
enough
time
to
put
a
utility
bill
insert
into
the
the
bills.
Given
the
compressed
time
frame.
D
We
just
got
the
the
formal
approval
on
the
31st,
and
so
we
didn't
want
to
be
presumptuous
and
assume
that
that
would
be
the
case,
so
we're
not
going
to
pursue
that.
Instead,
as
as
colin
alluded
to
we're
going
to
have
the
mailers
go
out,
I
think
two
separate
mailers
specifically
trying
to
address
this
issue.
Thank
you
for
the
question,
though.
It's
a
good
point.
D
Great
character,
vat,
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
mary
grant.
This
is
a
follow-up
to
the
first
session
we
had.
I
think
it
was
last
commission
meeting
on
parliamentary
procedures.
This
is
the
second
half
of
that
presentation.
G
There
we
go
good
evening
again,
chair
gravatt
and
commissioners,
so,
as
director
burgos
indicated,
this
is
sort
of
the
second
part
of
a
legal
training,
and
the
focus
today
really
is
going
to
be
more
on
navigating
a
process
of
decisions
on
appeals
and
then,
as
he
alluded
to
talking
a
little
bit
at
the
end,
about
the
bond
election
and
sort
of
the
conduct
and
role
of
commissioners
as
kind
of
a
setting
the
stage
or
framing
these
sorts
of
decisions
on
appeals.
G
That
may
come
before
the
commission
happen
on
a
relatively
rare
basis.
So
this
training
right
now
really
is
meant
to
be
a
fairly
broad
overview,
we'll
go
through
it
quickly,
hopefully
not
taking
the
full
45
minutes,
mostly
just
to
get
each
commissioner
aware
of
sort
of
what
that
process
looks
like
kind
of
have
some
exposure
to
it
before.
In
the
event,
a
case
came
up
or
an
appeal
came
before
the
commission,
there
would
be
some
background
as
to
how
that
would
be
handled
on
an
appeal.
G
So
there
are
several
places
within
the
boise
city
code,
where
appeals
on
a
staff
decision
can
be
appealed
and
come
before
the
public
sport
commission
for
review.
So
that's
really
where
our
focus
is,
and
I'm
just
going
to
go
over
a
couple
of
statutory
examples
of
where
an
appeal
may
come
before
the
commission.
G
Any
suspension
of
service
of
solid
waste,
also
with
pre-treatment
and
storm
water
management,
geothermal,
are
are
an
exception
so
where
I
just
made
give
you
that
whole
list
of
previous
things
on
the
prior
slide,
there
are
some
that
go
directly
from
staff
decision
up
to
city
council,
so
the
one
exception
to
that
would
be
geothermal.
Appeals
would
go
directly
to
city
council
and
skip
over
the
commission,
generally
speaking,
a
procedure
for
appeals
and,
with
the
caveat,
there's
nothing
specified
in
any
one
of
these
codes.
That
directly
speaks
to
each
type
of
appeal.
G
So
what
I'm
giving
you
is
a
broad
overview
of
sort
of
procedural
due
process
and
maybe
I'll
step
back
just
for
a
quick
moment
and
explain
the
difference
between
substantive
due
process
and
procedural
due
process,
which
you'll
hear
me
say
a
few
different
times
tonight.
Substantive
is
really.
Does
the
city
have
the
authority
to
regulate
this,
and
the
procedural
due
process
is
how
best
should
they
regulate
and
what
kind
of
protections
do
they
need
to
give
to
those
residents
using
these
services?
G
G
There
should
be
a
notice
of
hearing
which
would
be
the
date
and
time
it
will
be
heard
before
the
public's
work.
Public
works
commission,
the
standard
for
how
do
you
decide
whether
this
was
rightly
decided
by
staff
or
not,
is
going
to
be
somewhat
dependent
on
the
context
right?
So
the
decision
of
the
public
works
department
has
to
be
sort
of
not
reasonable,
based
on
the
criteria
eligibility
within
that
particular
statute.
G
Sort
of
ties
the
facts
and
circumstances
back
to
it
and
made
a
reasonable
or
justifiable
decision.
So
that's
why
I
say
it's
dependent
on
context
and
if
one
of
these
appeals
were
to
arise,
then
we
would
be
providing
the
public
works.
Commission,
the
specific
statutory
examples
and
criteria
for
what
basis
those
decisions
can
be
made
on
at
the
staff
level
when
the
kind
of
decision
like
that
comes
before
the
commission
generally,
there
are
three
ways
that
you
can
go.
G
The
commission
can
affirm
that
decision,
which
is
supporting
whatever
public
works
staff
did
reversing
the
decision,
saying
we
think
staff.
Maybe
was
a
little
erroneous
here
and
reversing
that
decision
or
modifying
it
saying
yeah.
We
think
they
maybe
got
it
right,
but
we're
going
to
modify
it
slightly.
For
these
reasons,
and
then
whatever
final
decision
comes
from
the
public
works
commission
we
would
memorialize
in
writing
and
have
the
public
works.
Commission
approve
those
findings
so
that
the
appellant,
whoever
it
was
that
came
before
the
commission
has
some
basis
to
say.
G
G
So
that
would
come
in
the
form
of
sort
of
a
staff
report
or
the
review
prior
to
the
commission,
hearing
anything
from
the
appellant
and
then
being
able
to
consider
other
relevant
testimony
so
that
staff
report,
if
you
agree
with
those,
is
your
reason
statement
right.
It
is
the
basis
for
your
decision
if
you
feel
that
public
works
made
the
right
call.
So
you
know
I
move
that
we
deny
the
appeal
ex
for
xyz
reasons
based
on
what
is
put
in
the
staff
report.
G
I
have
this
in
bold.
That
conclusions
are
not
sufficient
so
for
as
an
example
again
just
threading
through
our
our
sewer,
our
hypothetical
disconnection
from
sewer
fees,
saying
we
approve,
or
we
approve
the
decision
by
public
works
staff,
because
this
particular
user
failed
to
meet
x
criteria
in
in
the
statute.
G
That's
not
enough,
because
you're
not
saying
why!
Why
did
they
meet
that
or
why
did
they
fail
to
meet
that
criteria
right,
you're,
just
restating
what
the
law
says
right
so
you've
got
to
add
a
little
something
more
to
provide
a
basis
for
how
you're
creating
that
tie
between
the
fact
and
the
criteria
eligibility.
G
So
this
is
just
sort
of
a
summary
you
need
to
make
a
record
to
support
the
decision.
I
need
to
highlight
this
by
specific
criteria
of
whatever
statute
we're
considering
that
has
been
met
or
not
met
in
supporting
that
decision.
G
Again,
avoid
conclusory
statements,
use
deliberations,
to
mention
any
specific
facts
that
you're
putting
weight
on
and
tie
them
back
to
that
specific
criteria
within
the
statute.
G
So
it
can
be
a
decision
by
the
public
works.
Commission,
affirming
or
reversing
staff
can
likewise
then
be
appealed
up
from
the
public
works
commission
to
city
council
and
or
as
far
as
what's
called
judicial
review,
so
they
might
file
a
petition
with
the
district
court
saying
I
think
the
city
screwed
up
here.
So
the
reason
it's
important
to
develop
this
record
to
avoid
the
conclusion
statements
and
build
a
solitary,
solid
record
is
because,
if
something
were
to
come
from,
the
commission
go
up
to
city
council.
G
G
Otherwise,
generally
speaking,
council
is
going
to
support
the
decision
that
the
public
works
commission
made
as
long
as
it's
reasonable
and
supported
by
the
record,
and
then,
when
I
talk
about
judicial
review,
if
it
were
to
go
up
on
judicial
review,
it's
not
really
so
much
the
council
deliberations
that
are
going
to
be
the
subject
of
scrutiny.
It
would
be
the
deliberations
before
the
public
works
commission
as
far
as
did
they
get
it
right
and
because
the
review
of
city
council
is
so
narrow.
G
G
Some
of
this
is
is
taken
from
other
statutes
because
I'll
be
honest
in
regards
to
our
particular
statutes
under
public
works.
There's
not
always
all
this
criteria
really
cleanly
laid
out,
but
we
still
have
an
obligation
to
provide
procedural
due
process.
So
this
is
where
I'm
talking
about
guidance
from
ordinance
might
come
from
different
sections.
But
it's
illustrative
in
what
kind
of
procedure
we
would
need
to
use
here
in
front
of
the
commission-
and
this
is
where
I'm
talking
about
that.
G
We
need
to
that
public
works
commission
in
reviewing
a
decision
by
staff
should
find
some
error
right
and
so
that's
kind
of
where
you
they
didn't
get
it
right
because
they
misapplied
misinterpreted,
maybe
legally,
maybe
factually
or
whatever
it
may
be,
but
you're
defining
some
error
that
they
have
made
in
order
to
reverse
or
modify
a
decision.
G
And
then,
in
terms
of
moving
from
here
up
to
city
council
city
council,
has
to
find
that
public
works.
Commission
made
some
error
in
approving
or
reversing
or
modifying
a
staff
level
decision,
and
so
that's
again
where
the
role
is
very
limited
and
there's
the
only
basis
upon
which
they
can
find
error
is
if
the
public
works
commission
violated,
some
constitutional
state
or
city
law
exceeded
its
statutory
authority.
G
Did
this
on
sort
of
unlawful
procedure
was
arbitrary,
meaning
like
without
rational
basis
or
in
disregard
of
facts
and
circumstances,
or
is
not
supported
by
substantial
evidence?
So
unless
city
council
finds
one
of
those
things,
the
public
works.
Commission
decision
is
the
one
that
stands
and
I
want
to
pull
out
and
draw
some
attention
to
unlawful
procedure.
G
That's
partly
why
why
we're
having
this
training,
because
primarily
what
it
comes
down
to
is
notice
the
appellant
as
far
as
what
is
happening,
and
why
and
having
an
opportunity
to
be
heard
in
front
of
the
commission,
that's
at
its
very
basic
core.
What
procedural
due
process
is,
and
so
we
want
to
ensure
that
we've
provided
them
the
opportunity
to
be
publicly
heard
in
front
of
the
commission
and
have
their
sort
of
quote
unquote
day
in
court.
G
So
we
kind
of
already
talked
about
this
procedural
due
process,
so
I
won't
reiterate
a
lot
of
that
here,
but
again,
there's
that
difference
between
substantive
and
procedural
due
process,
and
I
kind
of
got
ahead
of
myself.
So
I
already
covered
this
where
really
the
minimum
requirements
are
just
notice
of
a
hearing
and
an
opportunity
to
be
heard.
G
There
are
some
things
to
consider
in
terms
of
how
we
do
procedural
due
process
beyond
just
that
notice
and
hearing.
So
these
are
four
different
things
that
would
need
to
be
in
kind
of
in
the
back
of
your
mind
as
commissioners
when
deliberating
on
any
kind
of
decision,
so
I'll
go
over
each
of
these,
but
basically
it's
ex
parte
communications,
considering
facts
outside
the
record
conflicts
of
interest
and
ensuring
that
there's
a
fairness
in
hearing
procedures.
G
When
we're
talking
about
ex
parte
communication,
part
of
what
an
appellant
is
afforded
is
to
make
sure
that
the
decision
is
made
quote
unquote
on
the
record.
So
if
there's
information
that
you
as
a
commissioner
have
independently
that
has
not
been
brought
up
in
the
public
sphere,
so
to
speak,
that
may
be
considered
ex
parte
communications.
So,
for
example,
our
user,
who
got
their
sewers
disconnected
decides
to
call
up
chair
gravat,
try
to
bend
his
ear
about
all
the
reasons
he's
correct.
G
That
would
need
to
be
disclosed
by
chair
gravatt
on
the
record
to
make
sure
it
cures
any
influence
he
might
have
had
outside
of
the
public
hearing
where
other
commissioners
have
the
ability
to
weigh
in
where
city
staff
can
answer
or
rebut
that
and
or
where
that
appellant
has
the
ability
to
bring
that
information
forward.
This
can
also
include
emails
phone
calls
passing
on
the
street
if
it
happens
to
be
a
party
who
is
subject
to
that
appeal.
G
The
problems
is
with
those
types
of
ex
parte.
Communications
is
again
not
knowing
what
information
is
influencing
or
weighing
in
on
the
decision
and
again
making
sure
that
the
decision
is
limited
to
what's
on
the
record
and
can
be
captured
the
best
way
to
cure.
This
is
like
I
mentioned,
disclosing
it
on
the
record.
G
The
names
of
the
people
who
you've
had
that
ex
parte
communication,
with
the
relationship
to
the
item
that
you're
hearing
kind
of
a
summary
of
what
the
contact
was
and
any
documents
or
other
information
that
has
been
provided
during
that
ex
parte
communication
that
doesn't
always
cure
it.
If,
if
the
information
we'll
talk
about
this
a
little
bit
more
with
conflict
of
interest,
if
the
information
is
of
such
a
nature
or
weight,
it
may
be
that
that
commissioner
needs
to
recuse
themselves
from
a
vote.
G
The
next
consideration
is
facts
outside
the
record.
This
can
come
up
more
often
than
you
might
think
and
can
be
can
happen
somewhat
inadvertently.
So
are
our
well
going
forward
with
our
example
of
a
disconnection
of
sewer.
Maybe
this
is
a
restaurant
that
you
you
often
frequent.
Maybe
the
owner
is
your
neighbor.
Maybe
you
drive
by
all
the
time,
and
you
saw
the
big
closed
sign
and
some
nasty
sign
to
the
city
about
disconnecting
the
sewer.
G
Those
are
things
that
you're
observing
outside
the
record
that
might
influence
or
weigh
in
on
your
decision
and
again
those
are
things
that
oh
and
then
also
oftentimes.
It's
just
curiosity
right.
You
want
to
know.
Where
is
this
location
and
you
look
it
up
on
google
maps
or
you're
you're
trying
to
find
other
information
about
this
on
the
internet?
Or
you
know
the
idaho
press
to
tribune
did
some
sort
of
press
release
about
it,
and
so
you
look
that
up
and
you
read
it.
G
These
are
all
facts
that
are
outside
of
what
might
be
a
record
on
or
in
the
hearing
and
should
be
considered
before
the
commission.
So
if
those
are
facts
that
you've
come
into
contact
with
or
that
you've
actively
sought
but
kind
of
inadvertently
again,
it's
the
best
thing
to
do.
G
Is
early
disclosure
put
it
on
the
record
prior
to
the
staff
report
prior
to
any
testimony
that
the
appellant
might
give
and
make
sure
that
it's
considered
before
that
hearing
is
closed
sort
of
so
to
speak
so
that
both
parties
being
the
city
and
the
appellant
have
the
opportunity
to
address
or
rebut
that
information
that
a
commissioner
may
have
come
come
into
contact
with.
G
So
again,
this
is
just
a
kind
of
summary
of
steer,
clear
of
new
facts
and
observations
during
deliberation.
Make
sure
that
you
disclose
that
early
and
often
if
something
such
as
an
ex
parte
communication
or
fact
outside
the
record
has
come
up-
and
I
alluded
to
this
briefly
before
where
sometimes
we
have
what
arises
as
a
conflict
of
interest.
G
So
in
an
ex
parte
communication
or
if
a
fact
outside
the
record
has
really
significantly
altered
a
position
or
that
relationship
is
so
of
such
a
close
nature.
That
there's
a
sense
that
your
objectivity
or
independence
in
making
the
decision
might
be
questioned.
Then
the
conflict
of
interest
can
arise.
G
So
there
are
two
different
ways:
this
is
defined
in
boise
city
code.
One
is
an
actual
conflict
of
interest
that
really
has
to
do
with
your
financial
interest
of
yourself,
a
household
member
or
a
business
with
which
you're
associated
and
the
apparent
conflict
is
really
where
your
objectivity
is
just
questioned.
Like
you
know,
is
this
influencing
you
enough
that
you're
not
going
to
make
an
objective
decision
when
these
things
arise?
G
You
know
the
extent
to
which
you
feel
there
might
be
questions
to
your
objectivity,
but
it
also
really
is
kind
of
a
personal
call
in
terms
of
how
influenced
do
you
feel,
and
do
you
feel
that
you
can
make
an
objective
decision
on
the
record
and
if
you
can
just
disclose
that
conflict
of
interest
and
state
the
reasons
why
you
still
can
feel
objective?
Otherwise,
if
you're
going
to
recuse
yourself,
you
don't
necessarily
have
to
give
an
explanation
as
to
why
you
just
simply
say:
here's
an
apparent
conflict
of
interest.
G
In
terms
of
an
actual
conflict
of
interest,
there's
just
a
real
quick
exception.
If
you
get
something
of
value
less
than
fifty
dollars,
that's
not
considered
a
conflict
of
interest,
it's
a
de
minimis
thing,
and
so
that
wouldn't
be
something
that
you
know
you'd
have
to
recuse
yourself
on.
So
in
our
example
say
you
happen
to
get
a
25
gift
card
from
a
neighbor
for
the
restaurant
that
closed,
whose
sewer
fee
disc
or
sewer
disconnection
you're
about
to
decide.
That's
not
a
conflict
of
interest.
Having
received
that
gift
card.
G
And
the
last
thing
we
want
to
cover
in
terms
of
how
we
do
this
is
just
fairness
and
hearing
procedures
again
stick
to
the
code,
what
the
criterion
eligibility
factors
are
for,
whatever
decision
public
works
staff
made
any
new
information
that
comes
out
on
the
hearing
or
during
the
hearing
we
need
to
give
staff
and
the
appellant
the
opportunity
to
address
or
rebut
that
new
information
on
a
more.
This
is
a
rather
unusual
thing,
especially
for
public
works.
Commission.
G
You
might
find
it's
more
common
in
planning
and
zoning
commission,
but
if
you
feel
you
don't
have
enough
information
on
the
record
to
make
a
decision,
the
commission
could
decide
to
defer
a
decision,
ask
and
articulate
what
additional
information
might
need
to
be
provided
and
then
have
a
continued
hearing
at
a
later
date,
and
we
can
go
over
some
of
what
these
considerations
of
a
deferral
would
need
to
be.
If
and
when
that
arises,
I
won't
take
the
time
to
go
over
that
tonight.
G
Just
again,
this
is
not
necessarily
a
routine
request,
and
if
that
were
to
come
up
it's
something
that
I
would
just
suggest
the
commissioners
bring
to
the
attention
of
staff
and
or
legal
ahead
of
time.
So
we
can
go
over
the
required
considerations
and
whether
or
not
it
might
qualify
for
a
deferral
all
right
before
I
go
on
to
ballot
the
ballot
bond
election
and
conduct
during
the
the
elections
are
there
any
other
questions
in
that
really
brief
overview
of
of
appeals.
G
So
I'm
going
to
keep
this
relatively
brief
with
regards
to
conduct
during
the
bond
election
and
the
reason
being-
and
this
is
just
again
sort
of
framing
the
issue-
is
that
there's
a
different
standard
for
staff
and
the
city
kind
of
as
a
whole
than
there
is
for
commissioners
in
your
capacity
as
a
commissioner?
G
That's
on
the
ballot
so
where
we
as
a
city
are
permissible
or
are
have
permissible.
Use
so
to
speak
of
funds
is
to
encourage
the
vote
just
generally
get
voter
turnout
up
to
educate
on
what
a
yes
vote
means.
What
a
no
vote
means
to
ensure
that
there's
adequate
information
and
factual
information
about
what
the
bond
means
and
what
the
approval
or
denial
would
result
in.
G
So
that's
where
colin
and
director
burgos
were
talking
about
sort
of
what
those
campaign
materials
are,
and
I
use
campaign
only
in
the
sense
of
educating
about
the
ballot
and
what
the
resulting,
what
the
bonds
result
of
the
bond
passing
or
failing,
would
do
for
increase
in
sewer
rates
with
regards
to
city
officials
and
commissioners.
So
this
is
where
I'm
speaking
more
directly
to
you
that
we,
you
as
commissioners,
do
have
the
ability
to
make
statements
as
to
your
position
and
opinion
regarding
a
bond
election.
G
The
caveat
here
is
again:
where
we're
taking
these
two
bullet
points
in
consideration
with
each
other.
You
cannot
use
city,
property,
public
funds
or
public
resources
in
that
capacity
to
advocate
for
or
against
this
ballot
measure
you
as
an
individual
commissioner
part
of
the
reason
you
are
appointed
as
a
commissioner
and
not
just
this
commission,
but
the
public
works
commission
or
the
library
board
or
whatnot.
Is
we
bring
you
on
as
volunteers
for
your
expertise
and
your
opinions
as
it
relates
to
city
business?
G
You
maintain
or
retain
that
capacity
to
state
your
opinions
as
individual
commissioners,
with
that
caveat
of
just
making
sure
you're
not
using
public
funds
or
resources
to
do
so.
So
that's
where,
on
the
second
bullet
point,
I
state
that
you
know
you
may
spend
the
personal
time
outside
of
your
duties
and
responsibilities
to
the
city
in
advocating
a
position,
and
you
may
spend
your
own
private
funds
in
support
or
opposition
of
this
ballot.
A
F
G
Chair
gravat
and
council
member
hallie
burton
that
is
correct.
There's
some
support
in
case
law.
For
that
specifically,
and
so
I
want
to
read
some
language
that
might
also
help
illustrate
this-
that
essentially
an
elected
official,
and
I
would
say
also
a
commissioner
in
this
particular
circumstance-
may
make
any
public
statements
or
express
their
opinion
or
support
regarding
a
bond
election
as
long
as
it's
an
ordinary
course
of
their
position.
G
Spending
time
simply
for
the
purpose
of
campaigning
may
require
a
reimbursement
of
time
spent
or
funds
spent.
So
I
I
recognize
that
there's
gray
area
in
that
response,
but
if
it's
just
in
an
ordinary
course
of
a
press
interview
or
something
like
that,
there
should
not
be
an
issue
with
you
individually,
as
a
commissioner
or
council
member,
stating
your
opinion.
D
We'll
turn
it
over
to
you.
Thank
you,
checkerboard
yeah.
We
really
want
want
the
commissioners
to
give
us
feedback
our
thoughts.
We
have
very
specific
break
points
in
the
discussion.
John
and
our
city
engineer,
jim
pardee
are
going
to
present
slides.
Take
breaks,
create
discussion
opportunities
for
you
all.
We
really
want
to
hear
your
your
perspectives.
This
is
an
important
topic
for
us
and
one
that
we
hope
you'll
enjoy
and
we'll
be
we're
gonna,
be
in
listening
mode
for
big
chunks
of
this.
I
Thank
you
good
evening,
chair
gravatt,
members
of
the
commission.
Again,
my
name
is
john
gunderson,
I'm
a
civil
engineer
in
our
engineering
department,
and
one
of
my
primary
roles
is
overseeing
our
geothermal
program
to
my
right,
jim
hardy,
he's
joining
me
this
evening
to
basically
just
kind
of
help,
moderate
and
facilitate
discussion
as
questions
and
discussion
come
up
could
be
answered
by
either.
One
of
us,
I
believe,
colin
may
chime
in
as
well
to
assist.
I
I
We
also
highlighted
a
few
specific
challenges,
a
few
opportunities
of
the
program,
but
tonight
we're
going
to
transition
a
little
bit
from
where
we
have
been
and
where
we're
at
to
where
we
want
to
go
and
again,
as
we've
alluded,
we're
hoping
that
this
is
going
to
be
very,
very
interactive
rather
than
us
telling
you
where
we
landed.
I
We
want
to
make
sure
we
build
this
program
together
as
a
team,
although
we
have
a
quite
a
bit
to
cover
tonight
I'll
try
to
get
through
some
this
quick
to
to
make
sure
we
have
plenty
of
time
for
this.
For
this
dialogue
now
keeping
in
mind
that
this
geothermal
utility,
it's
a
very
unique
utility,
it
comes
with
it
with
its
own
set
of
challenges,
and
and
that's
why
we
are
approaching
this
one,
a
little
bit
differently
than
other
utility
plans.
I
So,
looking
at
the
summary
above,
we
are
going
to
start
with
essentially
establishing
this.
This
overarching
vision,
mission,
values,
kind
of
set
the
bearing
on
the
compass
of
where
we
want
this
program
headed
and
then
once
we
discuss
that
we
will
transition
into
the
strategic
timing
planning
framework
and
how
we're
going
to
implement
this,
and
possibly
any
resources
needed
going
forward.
I
So
again,
basically
tonight
we're
asking
if
you
tilt
this
utility
pin
that
we're
going
to
present
to
you
seems
to
be
starting
going
on
the
right
foot
if
we're
missing
anything,
if
anything
specifically
sticks
out
one
way
or
another,
are
there
any
questions
before
before
I
get
started.
I
Thank
you,
so
a
good
first
step
in
any
utility
plan
is
to
clearly
identify
where
a
program
is
heading
again
setting
this
bearing
on
our
compass.
So
so
we
all
understand
where
the
program's
heading
and
all
of
our
actions
align
towards
that
goal
and
the
first
step
in
doing
this
is
we
want
to
establish
this
overall
vision.
This
is
the
the
overarching
principle
of
what
does
this
utility
stand
for
on
the
screen.
You'll
see
here
is
staff's
view
of
where
this
program
stands
and
where
it
should
be
going
and
I'll
read
it.
I
I
Now,
based
on
everything
that
you
know
of
our
geothermal
program,
everything
that
we've
talked
about
in
the
past
and
that
you're
aware
of
I'd
like
to
now
take
a
minute
and
and
pause,
allow
us
to
brainstorm
and
see
what
naturally
kind
of
collaboratively
comes
up
as
the
commission's
vision
of
this
utility.
I
You
know
maybe
there's
some
similarities,
maybe
they'll
match,
maybe
there'll
be
differences,
we'd
like
to
really
incorporate
them
and
then
following
this
exercise
we
will
go
back
and
and
basically
make
sure
the
rest
of
this
utility
plan
that
we're
going
to
present
to
you
still
aligns
and
still
matches
with
this
vision.
I
This
is
one
of
those
forks
in
the
roads
where
there's
staff's
interpretation
of
it,
but
we
want
to
see
what
leadership's
interpretation
of
it
is.
So
with
that
I'm
gonna
I'm
gonna
well.
Actually,
before
I
open
it
up
for
discussion,
let
me
just
let
me
just
describe
ours
a
little
bit
so
so
we
we
provided
the
this.
This
vision
statement
of
attractive
okay,
attractive
is
in
you
know
that
this
utility
is
appealing
to
customers.
It's
appealing
to
the
community.
You
know,
maybe
it
has
something
to
do
with
rates.
I
Maybe
it
has
something
to
do
with
the
environmental
impacts.
Maybe
it's
the
cool
thing
to
do.
We
we
want
to
make
sure
it's
reliable.
You
know
making
sure
this
is
a
utility
that
buildings
can
can
trust
can
rely
on
in
the
time
of
need.
We
want
to
make
sure
it's
sustainable,
pretty
self-explanatory,
sustainable.
As
you
know,
we
want
to
make
sure
this
utility
is
around
for
future
generations
to
come:
clean
energy,
clean
energy.
You
know
basically
referring
to
a
lot
of
these
carbon
and
climate
initiatives.
I
Geothermal
is
a
very
clean
energy
as
is,
and
and
we
want
to
continue
and
then-
and
then
we
put
in
to
the
community
of
boise,
and
this
one
is
up
for
a
little
of
interpretation,
because
although
the
geothermal
program
primarily
serves
the
downtown
core,
we
recognize
and
understand
that
the
benefits
that
that
are
being
received
are
community-wide
and
and
looking
forward.
I
So
with
that
chair
gravatt,
if
you
don't
mind,
if
we
could
open
it
up
for
for
discussion-
and
you
know
again
basically
what
what
is
the
overall
vision
that
the
commission
sees
this
utility
going
forward.
A
Awesome
thank
you
and
I
will
turn
it
over
to
commissioner
crowley
for
first
thoughts.
Commissioner
crowley,
I.
H
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
John.
It's
good
to
see
you
thank
you
for
your
presentation.
With
respect
to
your
vision
statement,
a
couple
of
questions
came
to
mind.
One
was,
and
this
is
really
based
on
some
of
your
prior
presentations
that
we've
we've
enjoyed
over
the
past
few
years.
H
To
me,
you
have
a
couple
of
other
elements
that
might
be
worth
considering
one
being
affordability
as
part
of
your
revision
statement
providing
an
affordable,
and
I'm
just
looking
at
this
as
from
kind
of
a
utility
commercial
perspective.
H
So
it
is
affordable,
vis-a-vis
other
sources,
and
we
can
talk
about
the
natural
gas
conundrum
that
you
deal
with
continually,
but
affordability,
competitive
plus.
You
know
it
it.
It
is
a
it's
a
hallmark
of
the
city
of
boise.
I
think
it's
you
know
we
we
talk
about
the
boise
river
and
some
of
the
other
inherent
amenities
that
we
have
and
enjoying
this
community,
and
I
think
the
work
that
you
are
doing
with
with
geothermal
is
just
as
important.
H
It's
another
it's
another
marker
for
the
city,
some
other
countries.
You
know
make
this
a
huge
deal
and
I
think
we
haven't
done
enough
to
really
emphasize
the
value
proposition
that
the
geothermal
system
provides
to
this
community.
H
So
my
comments
are,
you
know,
maybe
and
think
about
in
terms
of
your
vision,
statement,
affordable,
competitive
in
addition
to
what
you've
already
got
outlined.
There.
I
Chair
commissioner
crowley,
thank
you
for
that.
Those
are
those
are
great
recommendations.
A
Awesome,
yes,
thank
you,
commissioner
crowley,
that
you
said
one
thing
that
really
stuck
out
to
me
that
the
geothermal
system
that
we
have
as
a
hallmark
of
the
city
of
boise,
and
I
think
that
is
just
to
drive
home
your
statement
even
more,
I
think
leveraging
this
unique
large
asset,
as
a
defining
feature
of
who
we
are,
is
a
good
long-term
vision
that
we
could
have
for
this
asset.
H
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
I
really
believe
that
to
be
the
case
and
it's
it
is
the
largest
geothermal
system
in
the
country,
and
it's
I
don't
know
what
our
limits
are
in
terms
of
capacity
for
expansion,
and
I
know
john's
mentioned
before
that
they've
expanded
or
increased
our
water
rights
for
the
geothermal
system.
It's
it's
not
clear
to
me
just
how
far
that
can
go
and
just
how
that
can
fit
into
the
service
area
for
the
geothermal
system.
H
I
had
another
train
of
thought
and
it
just
came
back
to
me,
and
that
was
this
certainly
fits
well
with
the
city's
commitment
to
clean
energy
and
climate
in
the
climate
change
initiative
that
has
been
initiated
by
the
mayor
and
city
council.
I
think
those
are
things
that,
as
we
see
things
happening
throughout
our
country,
and
we've
experienced
it
here
this
year
this
summer,
that
we
really
need
to
get
needs
to
get
more
and
more
attention,
and
this
is
certainly
an
outstanding
example
of
the
city's
response
to
those
particular
issues.
J
I
I
have
a
question,
and
so
we
referenced
the
fact
that
the
geotherm
is
really
only
you
know
it's
it's
really
in
one
part
of
time
right
now,
and
so
it's
not
accessible
to
everyone
else,
and
this
is
more
just
a
question
based
on
my
own
ignorance
of
it.
But
are
there
any
public
amenities
that
utilize
geothermal?
J
I
Commissioner,
council
member
great
question,
we
will
be
discussing
that
a
little
bit
more
today,
a
big
focus
on
our
geothermal
program.
Moving
forward
is
we'd
like
to
we'd
like
to
incorporate
more
alternative,
uses
innovation
of
the
program
and
we're
going
to
talk
about
that.
A
little
bit
talk
about
some
questions
chair
had
at
our
last
session,
but
but
I
believe
that
there
are
opportunities
to
engage
the
community
more
as
a
whole.
And
again
we
will
talk
about
that
here
in
a
little
bit.
C
Come
on
a
word
that
came
up
for
me
was
stewardship
and
it
comes
up
with
the
reliable
and
sustainable.
C
D
Trigger
vat,
I
had
a
follow-up
question
for
commissioner
crowley
if
that's
all
right
sure
go
ahead.
I
was
thinking
about
your
comment,
commissioner,
crowley
about
kind
of
getting
clarity
on
the
on
kind
of
the
water
rights
and
how
how
we
can
expand
the
system.
D
Would
something
like
this
is
just
just
throwing
out
ideas
with
something
like
you
know.
We
talk
about
millions
of
gallons
of
water,
that's
available
to
the
water,
but
that's
that's
kind
of
an
abstract
concept
would
like
converting
that
to
square
footage
or
number
of
buildings
on
an
annual
basis.
Those
types
of
metrics
be
helpful
to
frame
how
we
might
expand,
expand
the
system
with
the
caveat,
there's
a
lot
of
variables
there,
but
we
could
kind
of
come
up
with
some
some
baseline
thoughts
on
what
that.
H
Means
think
that
I
think
that
would
be
helpful
to
you,
but
there
you
know
another
thought
in
continuing
to
look
at
john's
first
line.
Is
you
know
this
is
an
energy
source?
That's
emissions,
free
carbon.
You
know
zero
carbon
emissions
for
this
kind
of
energy,
something
that
people
I
think
are
becoming
more
and
more
aware
of
and
attuned
to
and
would
like.
H
I
think
that
might
be
something
else
to
think
about
in
terms
of
expansion
when,
when
you
look
at
the
system
map
for
the
geothermal
system,
it
it's,
it
sort
of
hits
some
quarters
the
main
part
of
downtown
and
then
swings
south
and
east
back
towards
boise
state,
and
it
just
I'm
just
wondering
if
there's
if
you
were
to
to
draw
a
map
with
boundaries
of
the
service
area
that
are,
you
know,
defined
by
where
the
system
actually
is,
and
the
services
that
are
being
provided
to
the
customers
within
those
boundaries.
H
It
gives
us
a
better
idea
of
just
what
the
service
territory
looks
like
and
where
the
opportunities
for
expansion
might
be
looking
at
kind
of
a
more
as
a
map
and
identifying
specific
spots
that
that
may
be
easy
targets
for
expansion
or
additional
customers
and
more
usage,
so
that
that
was
one
thing
I
had
in
mind
the
other
in
the
in
terms
of
the
square
footage,
the
types
of
buildings
or
applications
with
all
the
new
apartment
buildings
and
high-rise
buildings
going
in
downtown
you
know,
are
we:
are
we
aggressively
pursuing
those
facilities
or
as
as
customers
for
for
geothermal,
at
least,
if
not
in
whole?
H
Perhaps
in
part,
what
are
we
looking
at
in
terms
of
options
for
different
service
levels
and
what
what
the
requirements
might
be
for
for
those
customers,
potential
customers.
D
I'll
check
that
mr
crowley,
I
think,
first
of
all,
thanks
for
answering
my
my
question
that
help
that's
helpful
and
I
think
john's
going
to
cover
or
get
to
your
question
on
or
point
of
about
the
regarding
the
map
and
kind
of
areas
to
expand.
So
I
think
he's
going
to
cover
that
in
a
second.
But
thank
you.
I
Chair,
commissioner,
you
know
two
two
things
I
I'm
I'm
really
inspired
by
by
your
initiative
to
grow
the
system
and
that's
going
to
be
a
whole
tier
that
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
tonight
is
how
to
grow
the
system.
I
I'm
also
I'm
also
still
resonating
one
of
your
first
comments
on
just
the
pride
of
the
system
and
how
we
need
to
be
incorporating
more
pride
into
this,
because
it
is
something
we
are
proud
for
and
it
is
a
big
hallmark
of
of
boise.
So
your
comments
are
loud
and
clear,
and
hopefully
we
can
talk
a
little
bit
more
through
this
tonight
and.
I
Kind
of
jumping
ahead
a
little
bit
we're
hoping
that
this
will
remain
an
interactive
session
and
we're
hoping
to
hear
and
take
the
comments
tonight
and
then
come
back
and
maybe
with
another
iteration
of
this,
maybe
set
up
some
kind
of
working
document
if
we
need
to
be
sharing
information
back
and
forth
offline.
But
but
this
is,
this
is
all
very,
very
good.
Information
awesome.
A
Yes-
and
I
think
that
we
can
keep
taking
notes
about
ideas
that
we
have
for
a
vision
statement
as
we
learn
more
through
the
rest
of
this
presentation.
Perfect.
I
Okay,
so
under
vision
statement,
we're
gonna,
we're
gonna,
break
it
down
a
little
bit
further.
We're
gonna,
see
we're
gonna,
see
kind
of
a
pyramid
of
schemes
here,
and
so
we're
kind
of
starting
at
the
top
of
the
pyramid.
With
this
vision
and
then
we're
going
to
go
to
the
mission
and
then
last
we're
going
to
talk
about
some
core
values
that
are
meant
to
the
geothermal
program
and
then
later
on.
When
we
talk
about
the
strategic
plan,
we're
going
to
see
a
kind
of
another
pyramid
type
vision.
I
So
next
is
our
mission
statements
again.
We
just
want
to
make
sure
that
these
mission
statements
do
align
kind
of
point
to
the
top
of
the
pyramid
to
the
vision.
I
Currently,
we
have
landed
on
three
of
these.
These
are
a
little
bit
tricky
kind
of
finding
that
right
balance
of
being
specific
enough,
but
yet
also
general
enough
to
capture
all
aspects
of
the
geothermal
program.
So
so
these
are
three
again.
I
These
are
subject
to
change
based
on
where
we
land
with
this
vision
statement,
but
just
just
reading
through
these
number
one
maximizing
the
use
of
this
geothermal
resource
to
reduce
carbon
emitting
energy
sources
number
two
to
seek
growth,
diversity
and
alternative
uses
of
this
resource
in
part
to
support
financial
stability
and
three
to
strive
to
be
the
most
innovative
geothermal
city
in
the
united
states.
I
Again,
that's
if
you
don't
mind
chair
if
we
could
then
pause
for
a
discussion
again
about
these,
you
know.
Do
these
seem
right
what
what
is
most
important
to
the
commission
that
maybe
we
could
be
capturing
here.
A
Awesome
thank
you
and
I
will
kick
off
the
conversation
with
maybe
a
reordering
of
these
bullet
points
and
leading
with
the
innovation
component,
looking
at
the
user
end
and
at
sort
of
finding
ways
to
persuade
or
to
incentivize
development
that
integrates
geothermal
elements,
I
think
leaning
on
the
innovative
elements
of
geothermal,
as
well
as
the
financial
components
of
geothermal,
might
be
the
bigger
selling
points
in
getting
users
to
adopt
this.
B
I
would
like
to
say
that
the
third
mission
statement
strives
to
be
the
most
innovative
geothermal
city
in
the
united
states
is
probably
the
one
that
stood
out
the
most
to
me,
and
I
think
that
dovetailing
off
of
your
comments,
it
seeks
to
just
promote
geothermal,
as
it
is
instead
of
talking
about
the
carbon
emitting
uses
that
are
currently
being
implemented.
B
It's
talking
about
where
we're
looking
to
go
and
what
sustainable
actions
that
we're
hoping
to
achieve,
and
so
I,
like
that
positive
outlet
that
achievable
outcome
that
thing
that
we're
looking
forward
to,
and
so
that's
why
that
was
stood
out
the
most
to
me,
and
I
I'm
hoping
that
it's
basically,
I
feel
that
it
really
decreases
the
attention
to
carbon
emitting.
Things
is
basically
where
I'm
going
with.
This
is
that
it
is
focusing
on
the
positives,
turning
us
to
looking
for
that
solution
and
opening
more
opportunities
and
innovation
in
that
solution.
H
If
I'm
not
interrupting
anyone,
I
would
I
would
concur
with
abigail's
comments
and,
and
yours
as
well.
I
think
the
third
bullet
item
is
the
one
that
really
has
the
most
appeal
to
me
as
well,
and
it's
not
just
a
matter
of
when
I
think
about
it
as
being
the
most
innovative,
but
also
being
the
most
efficient
geothermal
city
in
the
united
states.
So
I'm
because
it
it
it
is.
H
I
think,
just
that
it
is
innovative
and
it's
also
a
very
efficient
in
terms
of
the
way
it's
run
and
the
way
the
applications
have
been
developed
and
the
way
the
service
has
been
provided.
So
there's
it's.
We
speak
to
to
the
technology,
but
also
the
interface
of
that
technology
with
our
community,
and
what
is
important
is
not
only
that
we're
innovative,
but
it's
also
efficient,
and
then
we
can.
We
can
speak
to
the
other.
H
The
other
two
points
as
being
kind
of
sub
points
of
that
overarching
mission
comment,
as
outlined
in
the
third
bullet.
J
Chair
vet,
I
have
a
comment
as
well
and
I
don't
know
if
it's
something
that
we
can
include
right
now,
but
I
think
certainly
something
we
should
strive
for
and
so
aim
to
include
would
be
equity
of
access.
J
You
know,
I
think,
if
I
try
and
put
myself
in
the
shoes
of
just
you
know
that
the
average
working-class
person
who
lives
in
the
area,
you
think
of
geothermal
and
you
automatically
think
warm
springs.
You
think
some
of
the
you
know
the
parts
of
town
that
are
the
wealthier,
more
privileged
parts
of
town,
and
so
so
maybe
people
don't
you
know,
I'm
not,
I'm
not
sure.
J
This
is
just
my
assumption,
but
I
wonder
if
there
there's
this
connection
that
people
make
with
with
demographics
and
is
there
a
way
that
we
can
provide
access
and
education
and
make
people
feel
like
this
is
something
that
really
is
for
them
and
not
just
for
the
wealthy.
A
I
Chair
commissioners,
specifically
on
providing
access
education
to
all
demographics
that
that
that
is
a
little
bit
difficult
being
in
a
downtown
area
where
we're
not
serving
residentials
at
this
point,
but
you
know
it:
it's
definitely
not
something
that
we're
trying
to
serve
a
certain
area
versus
another.
It's
just
a
naturally
organically
grown
to
serving
the
downtown.
It's
a
it's.
I
It's
not
it's
a
commercial
heating
district,
the
way
it
currently
stands
and
that's
something
else,
though
we
can
be
looking
at
and
talk
about
when
we're
talking
about
growth
of
it
is
maybe
I
mean
we
talked
last
time
when
we
were
looking
at
kind
of
our
customer
base
and
the
bigger
impacts.
The
bigger
energy
offset,
the
these
uses
for
some
of
these
large
buildings
compared
to
smaller
buildings,
and
then,
if
we
go
residential,
they're
going
to
get
even
smaller,
but
absolutely
I
mean
we
are
promoting.
I
We
are
ramping
up
our
education
side
of
it.
I
mean
a
big
portion
of
our
watershed
and
different
tours
and
things
we're
doing
cover
all
demographics.
I
The
service
area,
the
service
area,
does
stay
similar
to
where,
where
the,
where
it's
sourced
from-
and
it
is
sourced
here
downtown,
so
we're
not
going
to
be
able
to
get
to
southwest
boise
with
this
current
heating
district.
So
let
me
be
clear
here:
is
we
are
kind
of
in
this
fork
in
the
road
and
I'm
hearing
a
lot
of
consensus
here
on
looking
at
the
innovation
side
of
it,
and
innovation
may
lead
to
something
besides
a
heating
district
in
the
future,
and
if
so,
then
it
seems
like.
I
If
we
do
go
more
down
this
innovative
path,
then
we
will
be
able
to
touch
more
people
with
it.
Currently
as
a
heating
district,
it's
we.
We
have
a
geographic
limit
of
where
hot
water
can
be
sent
to.
A
Yeah
go
ahead
if
you
want
to
stand
up
to
the
mic,
so
we
can
hear
you
over
zoom.
K
Kind
of
follow
up
on
what
john's
saying
is
historically,
this
is
what
makes
this
plan
so
exciting,
and
I
think
you
know
for
the
for
the
commission.
You
know
you're
going
to
get
to
develop
something
brand
new.
K
There's
no
difference
here,
even
with
this
utility
plan,
with
the
geothermal
and
you
know,
as
john
alluded
to
historically,
it
has
been
just
like
a
heating
district,
but
a
big
part
of
the
strategic
plan
and
utility
plan
is
looking
at
that
innovation,
and
I
mean
it
maybe
someday
it's
not
even
a
heating
district,
maybe
someday
it's
something
completely
different.
So
I
I
applaud
the
thoughts
and
this
very
forward
thinking.
K
This
is
exactly
why
I
wanted
to
have
your
fingerprints
on
it
and
to
give
us
the
direction
because,
as
you
can
see,
sometimes
when
we
talk
it's
easy
for
us
to
get.
This
is
the
way
we've
always
done
things
you
know,
and
so
what
we're
going
to
really
rely
on.
Is
the
commission
to
make
sure
to
pull
us
out
of
that
and
make
sure
that
we're
we're
looking
bigger
and
broader
and
that
that's
the
power
of
this
group?
K
So
these
comments
are
great
and
I
think
the
innovation
part
is
that's
the
fun
part
of
this.
You
know,
maybe
not
so
much
for
somebody
like
me.
You
know
because
I'm
more
of
the
kind
of
run
the
day-to-day
business
part,
but
the
you
know
with
these
continued
comments
and
that
focus
just
because
we're
doing
it
today
doesn't
mean
that
we
need
to
continue.
So
I
I
you
know
continue
to
kind
of
like
to
hear
these
innovative
ideas,
because
I've
already
heard
several
that
we
haven't
so
thank.
A
K
A
Yes,
thank
you
for
that
clarification.
It
looks
like
commissioner
ellis.
C
Is
that
I'm
I
smiled
when
he
said
the
word
has
a
lot
of
connotation
with
me
just
working
for
hp
for
a
long
time
we
used
invent
as
our
phrase
for
a
long
time,
and
that
was
a
a
long-term
facility
out
there
at
hp.
That
was
a
lot.
It
had
a
lot
to
do
with
boise.
So
what
I
wanted
to
say
is
that
innovative
can
be
looked
at
a
lot
of
different
ways
in
the
delivery
and
how
it's
financed
and
all
that.
C
J
Yes,
yeah
sorry,
I
just
wanted
to
clarify
my
earlier
comment.
I
don't
think
I
was
necessarily
asking
for
you
know
what
what
does
it
look
like
in
terms
of
how
are
we
going
to
make
this
equitable,
more
sort
of
a
general
in
our
innovation?
We
are
considering
equity.
A
H
One
other
thing
this
is
just
an
aside
question
I'd,
be
interested
in
hearing
about
any
new
technologies
that
the
industry
in
general
has
seen
in
the
past
three
to
five
years.
That
has
some
applicability
for
our
system.
Here
I
don't
hear
much
about
technology
and
geothermal,
like
we
do
with
solar,
but
the
costs
of
solar
have
come
down
considerably
in
the
past
10
years.
I
Chair
commissioner
crawley,
thank
you
for
the
question
I
I
could
probably
spend
a
couple
hours
talking
about.
New
new
technologies
of
geothermal
geothermal
is
one
that
we're
going
to
be
hearing
more
and
more
about
in
the
upcoming
decade.
It
is
getting
national
worldwide
attention
from
from
from
the
federal
level
from
state
levels.
I
Geothermal
is
well
with
wind
and
solar,
the
the
wind
has
to
be
blowing
or
the
sun
has
to
be
shining
you
put
in
a
small
geothermal
unit
and
it's
pumping
along
24
hours
a
day,
seven
days
a
week,
specifically
commissioner
crawley
we
we
did
just
meet
with
a
couple
folks
a
couple
two
three
weeks
ago.
There
are
technologies
out
there
now
that
we
could
be
taking
this
low
temperature,
geothermal
water
and
producing
electricity
with
it.
I
I
I
We
want
to
make
sure
that
we
are
kind
of
forefront
on
anything,
that's
being
innovative
or
being
put
to
use
or
or
what
this
low
temperature
geothermal
water
could
be,
because
again,
we're
kind
of
in
this
great
this
middle
area,
where,
typically,
you
need
hotter
water
to
be
producing
electricity
and
to
have
some
of
these
other
benefits
we're
in
an
area
where
it's
mainly
been
disrepeating
over
the
last
century,
but
again
like
wind
and
solar.
I
believe
the
tides
are
changing
and
we're
going
to
be
hearing
more
and
more
about
it.
I
And
then,
as
we
talk
more
about
innovation,
one
of
our
identified
specific
tasks
is
to
develop
these
innovation
teams.
To
look
at
these
different
technologies
see
how
to
best
implement
them,
see
how
we
can
integrate
with
other
departments
and
other
city
goals
and
initiatives.
I
So
I
I
don't
want
to
keep
going
on
technologies,
but
there
there
are.
There
are
a
lot
of
emerging
technologies.
There
are
some
out
there
and
we're
staying
we're
staying
in
tune
with
all
of
them.
I
A
A
A
Hearing
none,
I
think
that
you
really
hit
the
the
head
heart
in
the
wallet.
Those
three
big
appeals
on
those
three,
absolutely
on
those
three
points.
So
thank
you.
Okay,.
I
Well
sure,
let's
take
it
down
one
more
level.
Here:
we've
talked
about
the
mission
division
and
now
just
a
couple
core
values
of
our
geothermal
program,
and
I'm
going
to
just
read
these
rather
quickly.
They
are
a
little
bit
wordy.
But
again,
these
are
staff's,
first
interpretation
of
them
and
again
I'd
like
kind
of
like
to
see,
if
there's
any
other
core
values
that
that
either
resonate
with
you
or
maybe
that
we're
missing
number
one
protect
protection
of
the
health
and
safety.
I
Now,
as
I
read
through
those
I
I
I
do
sense
that
we're
capturing
some
of
these
that
we
talked
about
on
on
the
last
slide
when
we're
talking
about
mission
statements,
and
so
it
it
sounds
like
we
are
all
talking,
the
same
language,
it's
just
how?
How
do
we
order
these
and
which
one
takes
priority
versus
which
one
should
be
a
little
bit
lower
in
the
weeds,
so
we
we've
kind
of
gone
through
this.
I
C
C
A
K
We're
not
looking
to
get
to
an
end
goal
today.
This
was,
I
mean,
that'd,
be
unfair.
You
know
our
expectation
is
not
to
walk
away
with
a
vision,
mission,
value
statement.
Our
opportunity
was
to
get
the
discussion
going,
get
the
thoughts
going
and
then
towards
the
end
of
the
presentation.
We
can
talk
about
ways
to
kind
of
you
know.
K
You
know,
give
you
some
time
to
kind
of
think
about
provide,
maybe
some
channels
to
kind
of
provide
information
back
and
forth,
and
you
know,
I
think
what
we
we
would
recommend
is
we'll
take
what
we
heard
here
take
another
crack
at
it,
get
it
out
to
the
commission
and
that
way
you
have
some
time
to
kind
of
digest
so
appreciate
the
comments
that
kind
of
sets
it.
But
this
is
far
from
over.
In
our
mind
at
least
perfect.
H
I
was
wondering
john,
if
it'd
be
possible,
for
you
to
distribute
copies
of
your
slide
presentation
to
the
members
of
the
commission
so
that
we
could
kind
of
have
a
hard
copy
to
to
work
on
or
scratch
on
between
now
and-
and
the
next
meeting
I
think,
would
be
really
helpful
for
us
to
have
this,
so
we
can
really
spend
some
time
on
it.
I
Chair,
commissioner,
absolutely
we
will
definitely
provide
something
that
we
can
share
back
and
forth
until
I
get
these
out
to
you.
These
are
all
included
in
the
draft
utility
plan
that
has
been
provided
so
so,
hopefully
you
have
access
to
them,
but
we'll
make
sure
we
get
this
part
out
specifically.
I
Okay,
I'm
just
looking
at
the
slide.
Now
there
there
is
kind
of
an
infographic
associated
here.
It's
not
showing
up
on
the
screen
very
well,
but
we're
gonna
be
talking
about
the
the
framework
of
the
utility
plan
going
forward
and
again
we're
gonna
we're
gonna,
be
talking
about
kind
of
this
triangle
approach,
but
but
here
we're
talking
from
the
ground
up,
basically
setting
a
foundation
and
then
building
upon
it.
Okay,
so
first,
let's,
let's
talk
a
little
bit
about
our
strategic
plan
framework.
I
What
we
did
is
first,
we
scoured
all
aspects
of
our
geothermal
program
from
all
the
baseline
documents
that
we
talked
last
last
june,
with
you
guys
to
speaking
with
operators,
maintenance,
staff,
building
owners,
knowing
addressing
our
known
needs,
even
comparing
this
utility
with
other
utilities,
to
kind
of
see
what
some
best
practices
are
identifying
all
of
our
known
opportunities,
all
of
our
known
challenges,
and
then
what
we
did
is
we
developed
specific
action
items.
I
Specific
tasks
to
address
these
and
in
these
tasks,
then,
are
grouped
into
three
main
categories
here,
starting
at
the
base
of
this
triangle.
The
category
is
existing
customers
and
customer
operation
or
in
system
operation.
Excuse
me
and
again,
basically
that
is
building
the
foundation.
The
the
following
three
slides
are
gonna
get
into
more
depth
on
each
one
of
these,
so
I'm
not
gonna
go
too
far
into
each
one.
I
Now,
as
I
go
through
these,
although
we're
calling
existing
customers
in
system
operation,
our
foundation,
that
does
not
mean
that
we're
gonna
focus
solely
on
that
one.
Before
we
move
on
to
the
next
one
before
we
move
on
to
the
next
one.
The
these
are
all
tasks
that
we're
gonna,
be
we're
gonna
be
working
on
in
parallel,
we're
to
be
doing
some
innovation,
some
growth
and
making
sure
our
house
is
in
order
all
at
the
same
time
there
there
are
different
priorities
for
each
one,
of
course,
but
this
is
definitely
not
a
linear
approach.
I
Something
that's
not
shown
here.
This
is
also
part
of
the
draft
utility
plan
is.
Is
we've
we've
developed
what
we're
calling
this
task
matrix
and
basically
it
breaks
it
into
these
three
categories,
but
then
it'll
break
it
into
further
subcategories,
and
if
you
want
to
take
it
all
the
way,
it
lists
out
close
to
80
specific
tasks
that
we
have
identified,
that
we
know
we
need
to
move
forward
for
the
success
of
this
utility.
I
Now,
again
after
today,
we're
going
to
want
to
revisit
that
and
make
sure
they
still
all
align
with
our
vision
mission
values.
But
it
sounds
like
we're
getting
a
lot
of
similarities
and
I
think
a
lot
of
these
will
still
align,
but
now
that
these
are
kind
of
grouped
and
prioritized
we're
having
a
discussion
with
leadership
where
we're
wanting
to
make
sure
that
staff's
interpretation
is
is
merged
with
with
the
leadership's
interpretation
and
then
we're
we're
really
anxious
to
really
start
implementing
some
of
this
and
really
start
building
this
foundation.
I
Lastly,
on
the
slide,
I
think
it
goes
without
saying:
is
this
entire
utility
plan
it's
going
to
be
a
living
document
as
more
challenges
or
opportunities
are
known,
as
we
start
mulling
through
some
of
these
specific
tasks,
we
might
learn
more,
we
might
realize
some
are
less
of
a
priority,
and
so
so
this
is
subject
to
change.
But
this
is.
This
is
definitely
a
good
starting
point
for
us
all.
I
Okay,
so
starting
starting
at
the
base
of
this
triangle,
we're
referring
to
this
as
the
foundation
of
the
program.
I
Things
under
customer
satisfaction
include,
you
know
the
customer
service
providing
a
reliable
system,
making
sure
buildings
are
using
this
water
most
efficiently
and
for
the
best
uses
and
then
on
the
other
side
of
the
coin.
The
administration
side
of
it
is
is
get
our
asset
management
programs
up
and
running,
make
sure
we
understand
what
we
have
and
what
we
need
to
be
doing
to
our
existing
assets,
from
from
pipelines
to
pumps
to
to
also
looking
at
our
rates.
I
You
know
internally,
some
of
this
internal
housekeeping,
that
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we
have
an
order
again.
Keep
kind
of
alluding
to
this.
This
foundation
make
sure
we
have
something
solid
to
build
upon
other
other
parts
of
this
foundation.
Yeah
are
or
the
financial
side
of
it,
which
you
know
how
we
manage
our
rates,
how
we
manage
our
assets,
all
the
financials
of
this
program,
the
the
box
on
the
right
side
are
just
a
few
of
many
of
the
of
the
tasks
that
are
identified.
I
I
I
wasn't
planning
on
reading
through
these
they're
there
they
can
be
found
in
this
task
matrix.
We
can
go
through
them
if
we
need
to
for
discussion,
but
in
general
I
guess
that's,
let's
take
another
one
of
these
pauses
in
general.
Does
this
framework
seem
to
to
make
sense?
Does
it
align,
you
know
are?
Are
we
focusing
on
some
of
the
these
right
areas.
I
A
So
if
I
am
understanding
your
questions
correctly,
your
first
question
is:
is
this
approach,
this
pyramid
approach
to
listing
out
the
action
items,
an
appropriate
approach
for
this
this
asset
and
then
the
second
question
is
then
diving
into
this
approach
into
the
base
layer?
Are
these
appropriate
appropriate
items
within
this
foundation.
K
Sure
gravatt
yeah,
maybe
not
quite
into
that
detail,
the
biggest
thing
we're
trying
to
do
is
just
establish
kind
of
our
strategy
moving
forward
and
there
again
it's
it's
based
on
this
kind
of
tired
event.
B
K
A
Thanks
for
the
clarification-
and
I
will
open
it
up
to
the
commission
for
any
initial
comments,
while
I'm
still
noodling
through
looks
like
commissioner
ellis.
C
Chair
karate
under
customer
satisfaction,
really
looked
at
those
hard
and
only
other
things
I
can
think
of
that
I
think
might
come
under
those
is
ease
of
use
and
quality,
so
quality,
I
think,
probably
comes
under
the
system,
reliability
and
the
ease
of
use.
I
don't
know
if
that
is
concerned
anyway.
Those
are
the
two
that
come
out
to
me
when
I'm
really
thinking
hard
about
customer
satisfaction.
H
I
Chair,
commissioner,
crawley,
yes,
absolutely
if
you
recall
it
was
about
three
years
ago.
I
believe
you,
you
were
part
of
this
with
us.
We
sent
letters
out
to
all
of
our
customers
from
the
mayor's
office.
Basically,
as
a
thank
you
for
for
using
this
clean
utility
and
in
there
we
we
equated
how
much
water
they
used
to
equivalent
of
how
much
co2
has
been
has
not
been
used.
We
also,
we
also
made
the
comparison
to
by
using
this
amount
of
water.
I
It
would
equate
to
x
number
of
trees
being
planted,
and
then
I
think
we
even
had
a
third
one
on
there
of
using
this
amount
of
water
would
also
equate
to
removing
so
many
vehicles
off
the
road
for
that
year.
There
there
are
definitely
ways
that
we
can
equate
it
with.
That
said,
there
are
a
couple
assumptions
that
we
have
to
build
into
each
one,
because
it's
it
there
there's
just
assumptions
on
on
how
much
heat
each
building
takes
off
the
water
and
and
how
efficient
would
their
natural
gas
boiler
actually
be.
I
H
Thanks
thanks
sean,
I
I
had
forgotten
about
some
of
that
work
that
you
did
three
years
ago.
H
The
reason
I
mentioned
it
again
was
not
just
because
of
lapse
in
memory,
but
also
to
and
to
see,
if
there's
a
way
that
we
can
begin
to
show
those
who
might
be
interested
that
the
city's
geothermal
system
is
part
of
this
overarching
goal
that
the
city
has
just
recently
established
regarding
climate
change
and
reduction
of
emissions
that
you
can
say
today
that
this
system
is
reducing
greenhouse
gas
emissions
by
x
number
of
tons
and
and
like
again
make
that
expand
that
up
for
another
one
of
your
goals.
H
I
Sure,
mr
crowley,
very
very
good
idea.
We
we
do
have
some
specific
tasks
very
closely
related
to
that
in
the
growth
section.
What
what
I
understand
over
here
in
a
this
comparison
of
geothermal
and
carbon
offset,
maybe
so
much
doesn't
fall
under
this
tier
of
existing
customers
in
our
system
operation.
But
I
think
that
would
be
great
outreach,
great
marketing,
great
a
great
way
to
incentivize
and
to
encourage
customers
to
grow
and
connect
onto
the
system.
A
And
just
to
build
on
that,
I
think
that
the
three
identified
layers
of
the
pyramid
that
you
have
are
a
great
approach.
I
think
they're
pretty
all-encompassing
and
then
not
necessarily
another
layer.
But
more
of
an
angle
of
looking
at
the
pyramid
is
building
pride
in
the
geothermal
system.
H
A
Hearing
none,
let's
move
on.
I
To
growth,
all
right,
okay,
so
the
next
tier
of
this
pyramid-
or
this
triangle-
is
growth
of
our
system.
You
know,
first
and
foremost,
why
do
we
want
to
grow?
The
system
reasons
include
well,
we
talked
about
kind
of
the
financial
status
of
the
geothermal
program,
so
we
do
want
to
grow
the
system
to
reach
financial
stability.
I
I
Here
we
will
talk
about
innovation
here
in
a
minute,
innovation
can
be
closely
related
to
growth.
I
mean
in
theory,
there
could
be
one,
but
we've
specifically
pulled
it
out
and
made
it
a
separate
topic.
So
how
do
we
grow?
Well?
The
first
way
of
growing
our
system
is
to
continue
doing
what
we're
doing,
and
I
say
that
is
in
being
a
heating
district
being
the
largest
heating
district
in
the
country.
Let's,
let's
continue
that
trend
to
some
degree
by
growing
it
by
growing
the
heating
district
side
of
it.
I
We
can
look
at
buildings
that
are
already
connected
and
make
sure
that
they're
that
they're
happy
with
it
that
they're
using
it
responsibly,
they're
using
it
for
as
many
beneficial
uses
as
they
can,
rather
than
just
one
or
or
very
efficient
next,
which
is
good,
which
is
going
to
be
a
big
one
in
in
the
upcoming
years,
is
system
infill
right
now
we're
serving
about
half
of
the
buildings
that
are
adjacent
to
our
system.
I
I
I
How
can
we
encourage
new
developments,
new
developers
to
tie
onto
the
geothermal
system
and-
and
there
again
we
have
a
handful
of
tasks
identified
here-
I'm
not
going
to
get
into
any
any
of
them
right
now,
but
you
know
some
that
land
under
all
these
are
looking
at
our
incentives
looking
at
what
makes
the
building
want
to
connect
versus
not
want
to
connect,
it's
really,
starting
with
some
of
that
outreach
and
meeting
with
these
buildings
and
in
learning
from
them.
I
Commissioner,
gravit
last
time
we
were
here,
you
asked
about
a
geothermal
and
natural
gas
comparison.
I
think
specifically
you're
seeking
social
environmental
impacts
of
carbon.
This
is
one
that,
as
I
look
back
after
your
comment,
this
is
was
already
an
identified
task
on
this
matrix
to
further
review.
You
know
there
are
some
published
social
costs
of
carbon
and,
and
it
puts
a
value
of
a
couple
hundred
thousand
dollars
to
the
program.
I
But
what
we're
we're
not
quite
sure
and
we're
not
quite
landed
on,
is
what
this
means
in
terms
of
carbon,
taxing
and
carbon
pricing
and
really
what
are
all
the
benefits
of
geothermal
and
how
does
that
relate
to
to
a
dollar
figure?
I
This
is
something
that
we
intend
to
work
closely
with,
with
the
with
our
fourth
floor
with
the
steve
hubble's
group,
as
this
question
is
probably
going
to
play
a
much
larger
role
in
this
overall
thermal
energy
plan,
that's
being
moved
forward,
so
I
I
I
just
wanted
to
circle
back
on
that
one
with
you,
knowing
that
we
did
hear
you
loud
and
clear.
It
is
an
identified
task.
We
do
see
the
importance
of
correlating
geothermal
and
carbon.
I
And
that's
that's
really
what
I
have
here
on
growth
if
we
could
again,
let's
let's
pause
for
discussion,
see
if
there's
any
other
information
you'd
like
to
see.
Does
this
feel
in
the
right
direction,
most
or
many
many
of
these
tasks
that
we've
identified
in
growth
will
require
some
sort
of
policy
setting.
So
so
we
fully
intend
to
be
back
in
front
of
you
and
and
be
discussing
many
of
these
tasks
and
kind
of
going
down
all
these
rabbit
holes
on
later
days,
chair.
A
A
How
can
we
best
engage
in
some
of
our
other
necessary
partners
beyond
management
of
the
system?
So
looking
at
partners
like
ada,
county
highway,
district
or
idaho
transportation
department
for
build
out
of
our
geothermal
system,
perhaps
into
some
heated
sidewalk
areas
or
roadway
areas
for
snowmelt,
or
something
like
that?
I
wonder
if
there
are
identified
tasks
or
if
that's
an
angle,
that
we
had
considered
with
growth.
I
Sure,
yes,
there,
those
are
identified
tasks.
The
the
angle
we're
taking
currently
is
knowing
that
we
need
to
engage
them.
We
we
know
that
we
want
to
be
engaged
with
with
acht
with
ccdc,
when
they're
doing
all
the
downtown
improvements
we
we
want
to
make
sure
we're
we're
always
engaged
in
staying
with
other
institutions.
We
work
really
closely
with
boise
state
on
many
different
projects
in
research.
On
our
geothermal
program.
We
want
to
make
sure
we're
engaged
with
with
different
national
laboratories,
nrel
and
inl.
I
We
we
want
to
make
sure
that
as
a
community,
we
as
a
geothermal
community,
we
are
understanding
what
other
agencies
would
like
to
see
with
this,
what
we
could
incorporate
with
it.
Some
of
this
will
fall
on
the
innovation
side
of
it,
but
some.
F
I
It
this
is
the
growth
side
of
it
as
well.
So
so,
yes,
those
are
identified
tasks.
The
the
action
items
of
what
we're
going
to
do
are
still
yet
to
be
determined.
A
Awesome,
thank
you
and
then
just
a
tangential
follow-up
to
this,
maybe
just
speaking
from
my
own
ignorance,
moving
toward
building
financial
stability
within
the
system.
A
I
Sure,
just
recently,
we
we
have
been
partnering
with
a
handful
of
these
agencies,
specifically
with
ccdc
and
achd,
and
we
have
been
doing
some
significant.
I
mean
very,
very
good
cost
sharing
with
them.
I
mean
to
the
point
where,
on
a
project
we
did
this
summer
when
we
had
a
lot
of
band
street,
ripped
up
we're
providing
materials
they're,
providing
all
the
labor
and
installation
costs,
because
they're
already
doing
the
road
work
there.
This
is
something
that,
even
just
yesterday,
I
was
meeting
with
achd
to
understand.
I
Where
are
the
next
improvements
happening
downtown
and,
let's
make
sure
we
have
that
on
our
radar
and
we
can
either
collaborate
with
them
at
a
minimum,
do
work
prior
to
them,
so
we're
not
coming
in
after
them.
There.
There
there's
many
different
angles
that
we're
taking
in
collaboration
with
these,
with
these
other
agencies
and
institutions,
and
I'm
sorry
what
was
the
second
part.
K
Sure
gravada,
if
I
could
kind
of
fill
in
here,
a
little
bit
too
so,
yes,
those
will
be,
those
will
be
looked
at
and
there's
there
was
a
question
about
like
the
snowmelt
that
came
up
and
you
know
not
only
on
on
maybe
the
connector,
but
also
you
know,
sidewalk
mountain
you
stop
and
think.
Well,
how
much
does
this
know
and
john
gave
a
great
example
of
it?
So
there's
there's
opportunities
there.
We
need
to
continue
to
identify
them.
I
wouldn't
say
those
are
major
barriers.
We've
got
to
find.
K
I
think
those
partners
are
willing
to
talk
if,
if
we've
got
something
to
talk
about
and
those
are
what
we're
still
defining
and
that
still
comes
in
kind
of
the
growth
and
innovation
part,
so
we'll
continue
to
kind
of
pursue
those,
but
bsu
would
be
a
great
example
of
somebody
who
was
an
excellent
partner.
We
made
that
main
extension
out
there.
That's
a
campus
that
continues
to
grow.
So
that's
that's
a
partner.
We
want
to
continue
to
really
focus
on
and
engage
and
like
to
see
them
even
utilize.
This
resource,
even
more
on
campus.
A
Awesome
so
then
it
sounds
like
the
one
of
the
larger
barriers
to
financial
stability
may
just
be
the
user
base
of
the
geothermal
system.
K
Sure
about
that
that's
correct,
I
mean
just
on
a
very
high
level.
It's
almost
if
we
could
double
our
customers.
We
we
we'd,
be
there
it's
it's
almost
that
simple
and
that's
there
again
when
you
start
to
look
at
the
growth
of
infill
and
actually
growing
the
system,
and,
as
john
mentioned,
you
know,
there's
50
percent
of
the
buildings
that
from
our
infrastructure
that
aren't
connected,
there's
that
this
is
going
to
come
back
to
policy
discussions
with
with
the
board
or
with
the
commission.
K
It
sounds
easy,
but
there's
often
a
large
expense
that
that
building
owner
has
to
do
to
switch
over
to
geothermal
and
those
are
some
of
that's.
Where
we're
going
to
have
to
get
creative,
I
would
say:
that's
the
biggest
barrier
awesome.
A
K
B
I
We
feel
like
we're
gonna,
be
able
to
receive
even
more
after
that,
because
of
the
health
and
success
of
the
octopus
coupled
with
and
then
start
looking
at
building
efficiency
and
each
building
can
squeeze
more
heat
out
of
each
gallon
means.
We're
gonna
have
more
of
it
to
distribute
there.
I
There
are
lots
of
opportunities
to
grow
and
expand
that
that's
going
to
be
part
of
that
third
tier
there
of
how
do
we
grow
the
system
by
the
expansion
of
where
do
we
want
to
expand,
and-
and
maybe
that
can
be
a
follow-up
here-
that
that
could
be
a
good
policy
discussion
of?
Where
do
we
want
to
expand?
I
This
is
really
the
fun
one.
This
is
really
where
the
brainstorming
can
happen
and
and
really
looking
at
what?
What
do
we
want
this
utility
to
mean
for
boise,
innovation
can
be
really
really
huge
and,
like
we
said
it
could
be
related
to
growth,
but
we've
intensely
separated
here,
there's
lots
of
innovative
opportunities
for
this
low-temperature
geothermal
water,
some
that
are
very
common,
some,
not
so
common,
but
but
they're
we're
hearing
more
and
more
about
them.
First
off.
Why
do
we
want
to
innovate?
I
Innovation
will
start
to
diversify
this
utility
right
now,
we're
doing
one
thing
with
it
and,
as
we
start,
innovating
it'll
allow
this
hot
water
to
be
used
for
for
different
reasons.
In
addition,
with
those
different
reasons,
it
may
encourage
more
year-round
use
of
it.
Most
of
this
water
is
used
in
three
or
four
months
out
of
the
year
and
then,
if
done
done
correctly,
this
innovation
should
also
help
with
financial
stability,
because
we're
diversifying
and
we're
not
putting
all
of
our
eggs
in
that
one
basket.
I
I
It
could
be
exploring
year-round
food
production
if
you,
if
you've,
ever
driven
through
the
mountains
through
idaho.
There
are
hundreds
of
greenhouses
that
dot
central,
idaho
that
use
geothermal
year
round
and
they
are
year-round
food
production.
I
You
know
possibly
making
this
not
just
a
heating
district,
but
a
heating
and
cooling
district
could
be
a
very
innovative
use
of
infrastructure.
That's
already
there.
I
mean
we
already
have
this
two-pipe
system,
so
so
there
are.
There
are
some
really
good
examples
of
it
and
again.
Commissioner,
chair
last
time,
you
asked
the
question
about
geothermal
for
heating,
intersections
or
parts
of
the
connector.
I
This
is
something
that
other
cities
do
specifically.
Klamath
falls
oregon,
it's
one
of
the
next
largest
geothermal
cities,
much
smaller
in
comparison,
but
one
of
the
next
larger
ones.
They
they
do
create
a
handful
of
their
bridges
in
part
of
their
downtown
with
geothermal
water,
and
it's
ideas
like
this.
That
should
be
considered.
It's
ideas
that
need
to
be
analyzed
by
what
we're
going
to
be
calling
this
innovation
team.
I
And
that
kind
of
alludes
to
the
main
tasks
that
our
identity,
the
main
tasks
that
are
identified
here,
is
establishing
these
innovation
teams
to
further
dissect
and
further
understand.
If
this
is
really
a
beneficial
use
of
this
resource.
Is
this
really
what
we
should
be
doing
with
it?
And
as
we
establish
these
innovation
teams,
perhaps
yourself
or
a
commission
member
would
be
interested
in
participating
in
it
again
just
trying
to
get
all
the
perspectives
and
understand
what
what
we
want
to
do
with
this
water.
I
So
again
tonight
we're
we're
asking
if
in
in
general,
so
I
I
I
think,
you've
already
confirmed-
that
the
framework
of
this
pyramid
is
good
with
the
addition
of
adding
a
pride
element
to
it.
But
this
is
the
capstone
here
on
the
innovation
building
on
the
foundation
of
making
sure
our
house
is
in
order.
I
This
is
probably
our
last
opportunity
here
in
the
presentation.
So
if
you
don't
mind,
if
we
could
just
pause
for
one
last,
one
last
opportunity
to
you
know
again
does
this
are?
Are
we
going
in
the
right
direction
or
is
there
anything
else
that
we
should
be
considering
at
this
time
and
again
we're
not
trying
to
answer
all
the
questions
tonight
and
we'll
keep
this
dialogue
open,
but
but
just
in
general
kind
of
kind
of
first
thoughts.
A
Yeah,
commissioner,
morgan,
if
you
hear
me,
I
have
the
opportunity
because
you're
breaking
up
on
audio,
if
you
could
send
in
chat
or
maybe
try
again
in
just
a
minute
I
we
can
follow
up
with
you.
J
A
All
right,
other
commissioners
have
any
questions
or
comments
related
to
the
tip
of
the
pyramid,
innovation.
H
I
think
john's
question
was
a
good
one
and,
given
what
we've
seen
this
evening,
I
would
say
that
they're
definitely
on
the
right
track.
I
think
the
topically
the
the
areas
that
our
most
exciting
the
diversification
year-round
use.
Financial
stability
is
important,
but
not,
but
also
the
pursuit
of
innovation
is
very
exciting.
I
think
that
that
offers
some
real
opportunities
for
the
geothermal
system
and
I'd
like
to
couple
and
shine
on
the
work
that
they've
presented
this
evening.
Look
forward
to
the
next
next
phase.
F
Thank
you.
I
always
want
to
try
to
create
some
space
for
commissioners
to
talk
first,
so
I
don't
jump
in
and
and
speak
over
anyone,
but
I
thought
I
would
give
staff.
Maybe
some
advantages
is
this
probably
will
make
its
way
to
council.
F
One
of
the
the
things
that
our
public
works
department
does
so
well,
and
particularly
with
geothermal,
is
collaborate
with
partnering
organizations
and
that
word's
actually
come
up
a
couple
times
from
staff
members
during
this
presentation,
as
well
as
partnership,
and
I
really
think
that
both
celebrating
the
existing
great
collaborations
that
already
exist,
but
also
through
that
innovative
process
exploring
what
those
new
collaborations
are,
whether
those
are
with
different
departments
at
the
city
or
partnering
agencies
like
achd
or
bsu
or
whatever
they
may
be.
F
J
Checkerbot,
I
have
a
question,
is
there
I
mean
I
love?
I
love
that
there's
examples,
and
you
know
like
the
example
of
recreation.
Hot
springs
is
this,
and
obviously
this
is
just
one
example,
but
would
the
anticipation
be
that
this
would
be
a
city
run
facility
or
is
the
opportunity
for
public
private
partnerships
so
that
maybe
there
are
other
small
local
businesses
who
could
participate
in
some
kind
of
program
like
this.
I
Chair,
commissioner,
this
could
be
an
opportunity
for
all
I
mean
this
is
a
this
is
the
city's
geothermal
program,
but
we
are
we're
serving
this
water
to
the
community
of
boise,
and
specifically,
I
think,
I
think,
of
some
of
these
other
uses,
such
as
the
ymca
or
the
elks
hospital
that
are
heating,
their
swimming
pools
with
it
that
are
heating,
their
facilities,
their
their
water
facilities
with
this
water.
I
I
I
don't
think
it's
out
of
the
question
to
to
look
at
a
private
public
partnership
to
to
look
at
the
private
side,
using
some
of
these
and
in
the
city
to
further
explore
these
as
well.
I
I
think
it's
all
on
the
table
for
right
now.
J
A
C
One
more
aspect
I
thought
I
would
add,
is
if
you're
going
to
have
a
team
working
on
this
innovation.
I
want
to
make
sure
that
you
guys
have
the
support
and
the
tools
for
the
nature
that
culture
of
innovating
does
that
make
sense,
so
that
would
be
the
only.
I
don't
know
if
I
necessarily
see
that
here,
but
leadership
support
the
right
opportunities
and
programs
and
things
to
help
with
that
innovation
is
really
important.
A
H
I
Sure
it
sounds
like
this
whole
room.
This.
A
Whole
team,
I
think
we're
pretty
excited
to
be
an
innovative
crew.
I
I
love
it.
Okay,
in
the
interest
of
time
we
we
have
reached
the
last
slide.
Here's
our
conclusion.
So
we've
presented
this.
This
draft
utility
plan
structure
all
recommendations
that
we
received
tonight.
We're
gonna,
go
back
back
to
the
table.
Further
incorporate
these
we're
gonna
we're
gonna
find
the
best
way
to
continue
to
share
these,
whether
it
be
documents
offline
that
we're
sharing
back
and
forth,
or
if
we're
back
in
front
of
you
next
month.
I
We
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
we
stay
engaged
this
entire
time.
So,
regardless
of
you,
know
updating
these
vision,
mission,
values
and
kind
of
this
framework
as
we're
moving
forward,
we're
going
to
have
lots
of
different
policy
discussions,
we're
going
to
have
lots
of
different,
I
mean
I,
I
want
to
say
kind
of
off-the-wall
utility
ideas
that
just
aren't
standard
to
most
utilities.
I
Right
now
we're
thinking
of
coming
back
every
couple
months,
and
I
I
guess
I
just
want
to
do
a
quick
check
if,
if
that
seems
right,
if
it
feels
right,
I
I'm
already
seeing
the
nod
from
both
of
you.
I
mean
it
is
every
couple
months
is
quarterly.
Is
that
enough?
Is
that
too
much,
and
then
probably
most
importantly,
for
myself,
is
if
there's
anything
we
can
do
differently
to
help
prepare
to
help
prepare
you
for
the
updates,
a
different
way
we
can
be
presenting
this?
I
Does
this
dialogue
work
best
or
whatever
thoughts
you
have
about?
How
often
you'd
like
to
see
us
and
and
what
we
can
do
to
keep
you
involved.
A
I
would
start
off
the
conversation
and
invite
you
here
whenever
it
is
useful
for
the
build
out
of
this
plan
and
the
and
the
maintenance
of
the
geothermal
asset
that
we
have
so
that.
F
A
All
build
pride
together
in
our
geothermal
system,
and
I
had
one
other
point
that
now
escapes
me,
but
I
would
also
defer
to
my
fellow
commissioners
for
your
input
on
how
often
you
would
like
to
hear
from
our
geothermal
team.
I
Mr
chair,
for
example,
there
is
a
table
here
of
just
a
few
of
the
many
policy
decisions
that
we've
already
been
identifying
from,
from
extension
policies
to
incentives
to
forgiveness
policies,
a
rate
strategy,
there's
a
whole
list
of
them
already
developing.
A
Thank
you
and
the
point
that
escaped
me
came
back
to
me.
One
piece
of
information
that
I
would
find
useful
in
these
discussions
is
the
shape
of
the
conversation
that
we're
having
with
the
end
users
of
the
geothermal
system,
sort
of
where
they're
at
in
considering
the
future
of
their
their
use.
C
C
I
I
We're
we're
going
to
have
to
have
specific
specific
meetings
just
on
any
one
of
these
policies,
and
so
I,
the
the
reason
for
those
are
just
just
to
provide
an
example
of
some
of
the
things
that
we
want
to
that
we're
going
to
be
here
for
in
the
future,
up
up
and
beyond
the
stuff
we're
talking
about
tonight.
C
So
you've
got
regular
material
that
you
would
like
to
review
with
us
that
you'll
be
more
than
happy
to
give
us
often
so
yeah,
I
don't
I
don't.
I
don't
know
if
I
have
a
vote.
How
often
like
what
you
said
whatever
sounds
reasonable,
but
we'll
definitely
we're
eager
to
hear
it.
A
All
right
hearing-
none,
I
would
thank
you
for
your
time
and
for
letting
us
have
a
robust
conversation.
I
A
You
is
there
anything
else
to
come
before
the
commission.
D
Sure
grab
just
a
couple
of
things
before
we
close,
I
want
to
be
respectful
time
two
items
I
want
to
share.
First,
thanks
for
being
there
at
the
all-electric
recycling
truck
dedication,
the
commissioners
who
showed
up.
We
really
appreciate
that
support.
D
That's
republic
service's
first
all-electric
recycling
truck
anywhere
in
the
nation,
they're,
obviously
big
national
haulers,
so
a
big
deal
for
us,
a
big
deal
for
them
and
then,
at
this
time
next
year,
we're
hopeful
to
have
10
all-electric
recycling
trucks
in
the
fleet,
which
will
be
great
and
then
also
I
wanted
to
share
with
you.
D
You
should
have
received
an
invite
or
will
be
receiving
an
invite
for
to
listen
in
on
the
the
nwri
panel,
the
national
water
research
institute
panel
that
we'll
be
having
next
week
regarding
emerging
constituents
and
also
helping
us
with
our
recycled
water
program
and
how
we
set
up
our
pilot
testing
for
different
technologies
that
we
might
want
to
use
for
that
third
facility
that
we're
proposing
in
the
southeast,
so
you'll
you'll
see
that
it's
in
the
invite
I'll
have
explanations
on
how
to
log
in
and
listen
in.
D
But
we
just
want
to
make
sure
you
all
aware
of
that,
and
that
is
on
the
9th
thursday.
The
9th
and
you'll
see
the
times
that
that
certain
discussions
will
be
taking
place,
but
we're
flying
in
at
least
five
of
our
six
panel
of
experts
are
going
to
be
here
in
boise
for
the
discussion.
So
we
get
to
pick
their
brains
on
the
latest
and
greatest
on
on
emerging
issues
and
emerging
technologies
related
to
recycled
water.
A
A
All
right,
moved
and
seconded
all
those
in
favor,
please
indicate
by
saying
aye.