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From YouTube: A Boulder View - April 2011 - Boulder's Energy Future
Description
A Boulder View interviews City Council Member Matthew Appelbaum about efforts to examine options for Boulder's Energy Future; a process that could lead to some groundbreaking decisions later this year.
A
Hello
and
welcome
to
a
boulder
review,
I'm
carl
castillo
in
the
first
half
of
the
show
I'll
be
speaking
with
councilmember
matthew,
applebaum,
about
efforts
underway
to
examine
options
for
boulder's
energy
future,
a
process
that
could
lead
to
some
groundbreaking
decisions
being
made
later
this
year
in
the
second
half
the
show,
jody
jacobson
will
be
exploring
boulder's
new
energy
smart
program,
which
should
help
take
the
guesswork
out
of
making
your
home
and
business
more
energy
efficient.
But
first
here
with
me
now
is
matthew.
A
Applebaum
matt
thanks
for
joining
us
hi
carl
matt,
as
probably
almost
all
viewers
who
watched
this
show
know.
Last
year,
council
chose
not
to
put
a
renewed
franchise
measure
on
the
ballot.
Instead,
they
chose
to
put
a
five-year
utility
occupation
tax
on
the
ballot
which
eventually
passed,
and
so
now
the
city
has
some
time
to
decide
how
it
wants
to
go
forward.
But
eventually
we
will
need
to
make
a
decision.
That
decision
will
be
made
first
by
council
and
then
by
ultimately
the
voters
right.
A
So
we
have
some
time
the
you-
you
are
just
one
of
those
members
of
council
but
you're,
a
very
important
one,
because
you're
notoriously
outspoken
independent-minded.
So
I
want
to
ask
you
some
some
tough
questions.
That's
a
compliment
in
this
context.
It
is,
I
want
to
ask
you
some
tough
questions
that
I
think
are
our
voters
or
citizens
are
asking
at
home.
A
So
why
are
we
doing
this,
and
by
that
I
mean?
Why
are
we
even
considering
ending
a
relationship
or
altering
a
relationship
with
excel
that,
for
I
think,
almost
every
other
city
or
every
city
and
its
seven
state
jurisdiction
seems
to
be
okay
with
renewing
their
franchise,
as
is
what's
different
about
boulder.
B
That
would
take
a
long
time
to
answer,
but
at
least
in
this
context
I
I
think
for
most
of
us
both
on
the
council
and
also
in
the
community.
I
mean
we
looked
at
what
was
on
the
table
and
and
what
was
available
was
a
20-year
franchise
with
excel
energy
and
and
yes,
we
could
shape
it
a
little
bit
within
some
pretty
narrow
parameters.
B
Having
said
that,
of
course,
we're
looking
at
alternative
approaches
to
how
we
proceed
and
we
don't
really
know
what
the
best
way
is,
but
it
just
seemed
that
a
more
or
less
standard
20-year
approach
was
not
right
at
this
time,
and
why
is
boulder
doing
when
other
cities
aren't
well
boulder?
Does
a
lot
of
things?
Other
cities
don't
do
we
tend
to
be
a
little
more
progressive,
aggressive
in
areas
like
this,
and
I
think
we
often
provide
a
model
that
other
cities
then
follow.
A
So,
as
a
council
member
and
as
a
council
there's
always
an
effort
to
make
sure
that
you
reflect
the
will
of
the
voters,
how
do
you
know
that
this
kind
of
effort,
which
is
not
a
small
effort,
it's
a
certain
amount
of
time
and
money
and
attention
that's
being
diverted
to
go
into
this?
How
do
you
know
that
that
is
truly
reflective
of
what
our
citizens
want,
as
opposed
to
just
the
energy
enthusiasts,
who
tend
to
make
themselves
very
vocal?
Well,.
B
You
don't
for
sure
you
don't
for
sure
with
any
issue,
but
boulder
rights
aren't
shy
and
we
hear
from
them.
I
mean
they're
ever
since
the
ballot
issue
and,
of
course,
the
ballot
issue
passed
handily.
You
can't
really
read
into
that
the
fact
that
people
were
necessarily
all
gung-ho
about
us
examining
alternative
futures
or
wanting
to
municipalize
or
what
have
you.
There
were
a
lot
of
other
things
on
the
table,
in
particular
just
keeping
the
city's
budget
whole.
B
Obviously,
some
people
clearly
voted
it
for
that
reason,
but
nonetheless,
I
think
there's
a
reasonable
reading
of
the
ballot
issue,
especially
given
how
how
much
support
it
got
that
people
were
saying
take
some
time
and
really
investigate
this.
We
have
been
investigating
it.
It's
been
clearly,
you
know
front
page
news,
many
articles,
much
interest
in
it.
We
have
not
been
inundated
with
complaints
from
people
saying
you're
wasting
our
time.
You
know
don't
spend
your
time
and
effort
and
money
on
this.
B
The
sense
I
get
is
people
are
intrigued
by
it.
They
are
interested.
They
haven't
necessarily
made
up
their
minds
as
to
which
direction
to
go.
Nor
has
the
council,
but
I
think
there
is
considerable
understanding
and
support
out
there
for
take
a
good
look
at
this.
This
is
a
big
issue.
This
is
a
hundred
year
deal
that
the
city
is
doing
this
is
our
energy
future
make
sure
that
we
get
a
good
understanding
of
the
issue
and,
of
course,
in
the
end,
the
voters
do
get
to
make
the
final
decision.
A
B
Well,
I
mean
just
the
logistics
of
it.
Are
you
have
to
have
a
ballot
issue
ready
to
go
mid
to
late
summer?
I
mean
there's
kind
of
an
absolute
end
date
of
the
middle
of
august
or
so,
but
that's
not
really
the
right
way
to
look
at
it.
I
think
I
think
we
on
council
looking
at
it
as
sometime
in
june,
we're
going
to
get
back
a
significant
amount
of
information
from
the
various
consultants
that
are
working
on
this
from
our
staff
team.
B
That's
working
on
this
and
we're
going
to
have
to
decide
first
off
whether
there
is
sufficient,
credible
information
that
lets
us
decide
what
to
do,
and
if
there
is
then
what
is
it
that
we
would
wish
to
recommend
to
the
voters?
So
there's
a
few
steps
in
here
now.
Obviously,
we've
been
meeting
pretty
much
every
couple
of
weeks
having
these
energy
roundtables
getting
updates,
asking
questions.
The
community
is
invited
they
attend.
B
They
ask
questions,
there's
an
awful
lot
of
work
going
on,
but
in
the
june
time
frame
around
june,
we're
going
to
have
to
really
have
decided.
Okay,
are
we
moving
forward
with
this,
and
and
what
are
we
putting
something
on
the
ballot,
and
what
does
it
look
like?
We
may
not
have
the
wording
totally
done,
but
we're
going
to
have
to
come
to
that
conclusion.
A
B
True,
we
we
do
have
this
five-year
window
in
which
to
analyze
this,
I
don't
see
any
benefit
in
dragging
it
out
it's
in
a
lot
of
people's
interests
in
the
city's
interest.
I
think
it's
in
excel's
interest
to
come
to
some
conclusion
about
how
you
want
to
proceed.
There's
a
lot
of
pardon
the
pun,
energy.
Behind
this
at
the
moment.
There's
a
lot
of
interest,
there's
a
lot
of
community
interest
in
it.
If
you
drag
these
things
out,
the
community
interest
tends
to
lag,
which
is
a
bad
thing.
B
A
B
People
to
be
involved
and
excited
about
it
one
way
or
the
other,
and
even
though
there's
five
years,
you
know
if
you
were
to
municipalize
or
you
were
to
continue
negotiating
with
excel
whatever
all
of
that
takes
time
rolling
it
out
takes
time
actually
making
it
happen.
Implementing
it
takes
time.
You
don't
really
want
to
wait.
If
you
can
do
it
again,
we
don't
to
be
honest,
I
don't
think
I
can
sit
here
today
and
say
I
know
for
sure
we're
going
to
have
sufficient
credible
information
by
june
or
so
well.
A
B
I
we
have
to
be
able
to
make
a
business
case
for
whatever
energy
future.
We
pick
whether
that's
a
partnership
with
excel
that's
a
new
model
kind
of
quite
different
from
the
old
20-year
franchises
or
whether
it's
municipalization
or
moving
forward,
asking
our
voters
whether
we
can
move
forward.
There
has
to
be
a
business
model
that
works.
In
other
words,
we
have
to
be
able
to
demonstrate
that,
whichever
way
we
go,
we
have
a
reliable
source
of
energy,
it's
a
maintainable
source,
it
is
cost
competitive.
B
There
is
hopefully
some
more
price
stability
than
we
currently
have,
and-
and
this
is
where
perhaps
municipalization
comes
in-
but
maybe
a
different
type
of
partnership
with
excel-
also
that
there
is
some
more
local
control
over
this,
that
we
as
a
locality
and
our
citizens,
as
both
citizens
of
boulder
and
customers
of
the
energy
utility,
have
more
control
over
their
energy
future
and
there's
also
more
agility
more
nimbleness.
This
is
an
energy,
a
world
of
energy.
That's
changing
very
rapidly!
B
You
don't
want
to
be
stuck
in
a
in
a
system
with
an
agreement
that
keeps
you
behind
the
times
it.
It's
always
lagging
behind.
Where
you
want
to
be
now,
I
haven't
really
mentioned:
decarbonization
clean
energy.
Yes,
that's
very
important
that
it's
certainly
very
important
to
a
large
group
of
citizens.
Who've
been
active
in
this
to
me.
If
you
get
all
the
other
pieces
in
play,
that
clearly
is
going
to
come
along
because
it
is
going
to
be
a
part
of
the
energy
future
in
this
country
and
in
this
world.
A
B
A
B
All
clear
that
there
are
ways
to
do
that.
It
would
seem,
at
least
as
if
the
two
options
are
some
sort
of
franchise
agreement
with
excel,
which
is
perfectly
plausible
and
something
we
continue
to
work
on
again.
It
would
be
different
than
the
standard
style
of
franchise
agreements.
We've
seen
the
term
the
length
could
be
different.
The
you
know
the
way
we
were
the
way
we
partnered
with
them
could
be
different.
That's
one
piece,
that's
pretty
understandable.
B
The
municipalization
side
would
be
potentially
asking
the
voters
for
the
ability
to
float
a
revenue
bond
issue
that
would
be
paid
back
by
the
revenues
from
running
the
system,
and
that
would
set
us
down
the
path
if
it
played
out
to
actually
acquire
the
distribution
system
from
excel.
Spend
the
money
go
through.
Frankly,
some
of
the
legal
headaches
and
acquire
the
system
as
a
municipal
utility
and
run
it
as
a
municipal
utility,
just
like
longmont,
just
like
loveland,
just
like
fort
collins,
just
like
colorado,
springs,
et
cetera,
but.
A
B
Get
this
you
know
that's
possible,
just
speaking
for
myself
at
the
moment.
That's
not
my
preferred
way
of
doing
it.
I
think
you
get
voter
burn
out
yeah.
I
think
it
gets
very
difficult
again
to
continue
to
have
this
level
of
interest
and
energy
and
staff
work
and
all
the
other
things
on
an
issue
for
that
long.
B
A
B
Well,
okay,
so
remember
that
one
of
the
clearly
stated
goals
is
that
whatever
we
do,
we
have
to
make
sure
that
energy
rates
are
comparable
with
what
other
folks
are
paying
yeah
and
that
the
service
is
reliable
and
so
on.
That's
the
business
model,
so
the
business
model
has
to
demonstrate
that,
yes,
it's
going
to
be
incredibly
frighteningly
expensive,
I
mean
even
in
a
city
that
has
floated
some
pretty
big
bond
issues
for
capital
projects,
open
space
and
so
on.
This
is
a
new
realm,
but
you
also
have
to
understand
that
the
business
is
extraordinary.
B
Off
right,
if
you
look
at
the
municipalized
energy
sector
around
the
country,
on
average,
their
rates
are
about
10
percent
lower
than
the
private
sector.
That's
not
that
surprising.
They
don't
have
to
have
a
profit.
I
mean
they're
municipal.
You
don't
need
a
10
profit
for
the
stockholders.
The
stockholders
are
the
citizens
of
the
city.
You
also
have
some
advantages
in
getting
lower
rates
on
bonds
for
for
municipal
bonding.
B
Having
said
that,
no
it's
a
it's
a
big
deal
and
it's
going
to
be
not
just
look
like
big
numbers,
it's
going
to
be
big
numbers
and
that's
why
we
have
to
have
a
business
model
done
by
professionals
in
the
field.
Everything
I've
seen
so
far
very
strongly
suggests
that
you
can
pull
it
off
that
the
first
few
years
can
be
awkward,
a
little
bit
scary
as
you're
trying
to
make
everything
work.
But
after
you
get
through
kind
of
the
ramp
up
the
startup,
it
can
be
done.
A
B
I'm
not
so
sure
about
the
clean
energy,
I'm
not
the
expert
on
this.
There
are
certainly
cities
around
the
country
that
have
municipalized.
Recently,
the
folks
from
winter
park
in
florida
came
out
and
talked
to
us
and
you
know
had
a
public
session
and
they
were
very
interesting.
They
did
it.
They
were
driven
from
a
slightly
different
perspective
than
we
are
again
I,
although
the
activists
as
you
might
call
them,
are
clearly
driven
by
the
clean
energy
and
don't
don't
misunderstand
I'm
driven
by
that
too.