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From YouTube: 6-7-23 Environmental Advisory Board Meeting
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Heather
sandine:,
so
the
city
has
engaged
with
community
members
to
co-create
a
vision
for
productive,,
meaningful,
and
inclusive
civic
conversations..
This
vision
supports
physical
and
emotional
safety
for
community
members,
staff
and
board
commission
members,
as
well
as
democracy.
for
people
of
all
ages,
identities,
lived
experiences
and
political
perspectives.
A
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B
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C
C
Lynn,
segal:
balance
between
the
2
boards..
They
almost
went
to
the
point
where
they
said,
well,.
We
should
just
make
this
a
staff
thing,
which
is,
they
always
approve
the
solar,
panels,
and
they're
always,.
You
know..
I
would
never
let
them
get
away
with
with
changing
the
angle,
just
for
the
appearance
to
the
public
or
anything..
So
they're,
you
know,
pretty.
C
C
Lynn,
segal:
in
that.
what
what
we
need
to
design
in
boulder
and
eab
should
be
right.
Behind..
This
is
housing
that
accommodates
more
people.
naturally..
What
I'm
proposing
is
there
should
be
a
minimum
of
5
or
600
per
square
feet
per
person
in
a
house,,
and
you
have
2
refrigerators,
or
maybe
3
refrigerators..
You
have
one
washer
dryer..
You
have
one,
you
know,
for.
C
C
C
C
C
Lynn,
segal:
per
square
foot.,
so
you
can
get
more
people
in
a
place.
for
example,
parking,
parking,
restrictions
are
always
lifted
at
the
planning.
Board,
because,
oh,,
these
300
square
foot
places
which
are
too
small
for
person,
anyway,
those
places
they
aren't
going
to
use
a
car.
well,
guess
what
people
have
stuff,
and
people
do
use
the
car,.
Even
if
it's
the
uber.,
the
uber
is
crowding
the
streets,
going
up
to
the
storage
closet.
C
Lynn
segal:,
so
this
it's
really
critical
that
we
have
livable
spaces
for
people
so
that
they're
going
to
the
mountains
for
their
commute.
Instead
of
to
the
storage
closet
across
town.
and
the,
and
that
affects,
you
know,
the
congestion
and
everything
else.,
and
when
you
have
people
living
in
multi-generational,
multi,
generationally
in
in
household
units,,
they
work
better
together
for
less
cars.
C
B
B
A
A
Heather
sandine:
yes.,
but
heather
sandine:.
There
is
some
following
this,
according
to
to
our
packet..
We
will
have
this
initial
discussion,
and
I
think
this
will
come
back
to
us
for
a
second
round.,
so
there
will
be
future
opportunity
for
us
to
take
into
account..
If
you
decide
to
email
us
any
comments
that
you
have.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
thank
you
for
having
us..
My
name
is
edward
stanford
and
the
senior
manager
planning
and
development
services..
I
mean,
it
was
serving
as
the
building
official
until
recently,.
You
know,
reminded
some
of
the
introductions
here
and
helping
support
this
project,,
especially
through
the
process..
I'm
with
us.
Tonight,,
is
rob
adrian's
on
the
in
down
here.
he's
our
new
chief
building
official,,
and
he
just.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
so
the
agenda
title,
really
for
tonight
is
an
introduction
to
the
2,024
energy.
go
through
the
city
of
boulder,
as
many
of
you
may
be
aware,.
The
city
has
a
vision
to
reduce
our
carbon
emissions
by
70
by
2030,
reach,
net.
0
carbon
emissions
by
2,035,
and
look
to
be
a
carbon
positive
city
by
2,040
or
another
way
it
is.
there
are
buildings
actually
to
remove
more
carbon
dioxide,
and
they
produce.
A
Heather
sandine:
before
we
really
get
into
this..
I
wanted
to
give
a
quick
background
on
the
history
of
where
our
energy
code
came
from.
and
then
once
we
get
into
some
of
the
updates
and
and
the
real
substance
of
the
presentation.,
we'll
get
it
more
of
what
we're
looking
at
proposing
for
the
future.
Update.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
anything
lower
than
5,000
would
be
in
a
hers
of
60,,
and
then
the
scale
would,
as
the
home
got
larger,
it
would
get
closer
to
0
as
it
got
closer
to
the
5,000
on
the
square
foot
number.,
and
so
you
can
see,
as
it
was
tracking.
We
were
looking
at,
really,
shrinking
that
number
to
get
closer
to
that
0.
and
we'll
explain
later
on
that
conversation,
while
we're
still
looking
at
that.
we're
looking
at
different
avenues
as
well
to
to
look
at
incorporating
a
reduction
in
carbon
is
also.
A
Heather
sandine:
sorry..
Another
thing
we
also
introduced
here
is
performance
back
stops,
and
these
can
be
seen
in
our
our
values
to
the
envelope
for
the
actual
building
itself..
These
values
are
untradable.,
so
you
can't
model
out
of
these.
and
so
we're
looking
at
insulation,,
ruth.
installation
and
all
installation
window
values,
things
of
that
nature.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
it
also
includes
our
multi
family,
buildings.
and
so
multi-family
is
included
under
our
commercial
scope,,
because
the
multi-family
r.
2.
occupancy
is
included
under
the
international
building
code,,
and
so
therefore,
it
falls
under
the
commercial.
The
commercial
guidance
for
our
our
our
codes.
A
A
Heather
sandine:
another
way
to
look
at
this
is
this
is
2,012
energy,
code.,
and
so
what
we
did
was
we
looked
at
that
we
wanted
to
do
something
better
than
what
they
were
requiring.,
so
we
required
a
30%
savings
above
that
code..
Another
thing
that
was
introduced
with
this,
the
2,017
covid
was
our
fully
ready
requirement..
So
all
commercial
new
construction
was
required
to
have
at
least
40%
of
the
roof
available
for
solar.
A
A
Heather
sandine:
our
baseline
model,
for
what
we're
we're,
modeling
everything
against
from
the
2,010
code
here
to
the
2,016
code.,
and
so
it's
going
to
have
a
lot
more
stringent
energy
efficiency
requirements..
As
you
can
see,,
we
require
2025%
off
savings
versus
the
30..
This
is
a
more
stringent
code
plus,
if
you're
in
all
electric
building,
you,
you're
allowed
to
show
the
20%
reduction
in
energy..
If
it's
a
mixed
field,
building,
those
25%
reduction,
and
we'll
we'll
talk
more
about
that
later,
on,,
as
well
as
how
that
factors.
in.
A
Heather
sandine:
another
thing
to
really
know
here
is
this
eui
target
that
we
use,,
which
is
an
energy
use
index..
We
were
one
of
the
first
municipalities
in
the
country
to
utilize
this
target
similar
to
if
anyone's
ever
heard,
of
a
hers
rating
or
an
e
ri,.
It's
a
it's
a
it's
a
similar
rating
for
a
commercial
bill..
So
it's
miles
per
gallon
for
a
building
really.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
and
then
we're
going
to
be
looking
at
doing
stakeholder
engagement
along
with
community
engagement,
to
get
everyone's
feedback
at
the
end
of
this..
This
is
really
going
to
be
our
code.
as
a
city..
Once
we
have
all
of
that,
engagement,
we're
going
to
be
looking
at,,
bringing
you
back
to
the
planning
board
and
and
the
environment
and
advisory
board,
as
well
as
long
as
as
well
as
city
council.
A
Heather
sandine:
for
review,
and
then
looking
to
have
the
initial
public
reading
in
november.,
so
to
really
start
getting
into
the
meat
of
kind
of
this
update
for
our
energy
code.
here,.
We
have
5
areas
of
focus
in
the
first
2
areas
I
wanted
to
touch
on
are
really
going
to
be
focused
on
our
performance
targets
and
looking
at
energy
efficiency
and
energy
savings.
Reduction.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
and
then
for
anything,
that's
less
than
3,000
square
feet,
revisiting
those
targets
to
see
what
we
can
do.
to
help
push
the
envelope
for
energy
efficiency
on
those
those
smaller
homes
as
well.,
so
that
everyone
has
the
opportunity
for
that
energy
efficiency,,
not
just
the
people
that
can
afford
to
build
the
larger
notes.
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
you
see
what
your
target
is,
as
long
as
you
exceed
that
target
you
comply
with
with
the
requirement
here
at
the
city..
What
we
require
in
this
path
is
this,.
Is
the
25
or
2520
or
25%
savings
that
we
were
talking
about
earlier..
What
we're
going
to
be
looking
at
here
is
actually
updating
that
number
to
to
keep
with
the
pass
of
what
the
city
is
looking
at
as
we
go
towards
net
0
energy,
net,,
0,
carbon.,.
A
A
Heather
sandine:
they
have
the
energy
use
index
targets
that
they
have
to
hit.,
and
so
they
would
model
those
buildings,
and
they
have
to
be
under
those
targets..
It's
a
pretty,.
It's
it's
a
lot
simpler.,
but
those
targets
are
going
to
be
a
lot
more
strict
as
well,
and
the
other
limitation
is,.
There
is
only
so
many
of
those
building
types.,
and
so
what
we're
looking
at
doing
with
the
updates
is
updating
those
those
targets,
as
well
as
looking
to
add
additional
building
types..
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
not
based
off
of
design,,
rather
how
the
building
performs
at
the
end.,
and
so
you
would
have
to
gather
all
your
utility
data..
You
would
model
the
building
at
the
end
to
see
what
the
energies
target
is
and
see
if
it
actually
marries
up
with
what
it's,
what
the
design
is
saying
that
it
should
be,
and
so
there's
other
caveats.
we're
gonna.
Look
at
that
just
to
help
kind
of
push
the
envelope.
with
that
that
that
often
in
an
energy
code.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
and
the
real
strength
in
this
program
is
that
it's
grounded
in
the
energy
start
program
as
as
one
of
the
the
key
cornerstones
for
this
certification.,
and
it's
not
grounded
in
looking
at
the
older
version
of
energy,
start
this
one
that
we're
mentioning
is
actually
3.2,
which
wouldn't
go
into
effect.
Till
january
of
next
year..
A
Heather
sandine:,
but
the
backbone
to
this
program
is
2021,
and
the
energy
code
envelope..
So
we're
not
just
looking
at
going
back
to
like
a
2,012
baseline.
they're
requiring
one
of
the
most
stringent
codes
in
the
country,
currently,,
which
is
the
2,021
energy
code..
It
also
requires
energy,,
star
windows,
energy,
star
appliances,
which
I
didn't
mention
on
the
slide.
A
Heather
sandine:
some
interesting
things
about
this
program
is
you're
required
to
keep
your
h
back
system
with
tied
in
inside
the
thermal
envelope
of
the
building.,
and
so
that's
typically,
we
see
ducks
in
addicts
or
in
call
spaces..
So
that's
something
that'd
be
a
little
bit
of
the
ship..
What
we're
used
to
seeing.
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
one
of
the
key
things
to
remember
about
this
program,
is
last
year,.
When
the
inflation
reduction
act
was
passed,.
There
were
a
couple
of
incentives
that
are
going
to
be
carried
forward
for
the
next
10
years,,
and
one
of
them
is
the
45
l.
tax
credit
that
actually
gives
incentivizes
this
program
for
home
models
to
be
able
to
take
it
on
and.
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
so
we
just
touched
on
the
first
2
areas.,
really
updating
our
performance
targets
and
allowing
for
an
alternative
for
our
energy
code
for
the
residential
path,
please..
The
last
3
pieces
here
are
going
to
be
looking
at
electrification
and
our
move
to
look
at
reduct,
reducing
our
our
carbon
emissions.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
and
then
also,
we're
looking
at
level
3
alterations
and
requiring
those
not
requiring
but
encouraging
them
to
move
to
electric
ready
by
by
enticing
them
with
more
of
a
relaxed
target
for
their
ei
or
their
energy
modeling
to
really
kind
of
push
the
envelope
and
really
help
with
that..
One
thing
I
did
want
to
mention,
too,
is
currently
currently
crested.,
but
here
in
the
state
of
colorado,
is
the
first
to
have
an
all
electric
energy
code.
A
Heather
sandine:
denver
is
actually
following
pretty
closely
behind
this,.
Many
of
you
might
be
aware,
as
of
january.
One,
commercial
and
multi-family
will
no
longer
be
allowed
to
install
natural
gas
furnaces
or
water
heating?.
So
this
is
some
things
for
us
to
really
kind
of
pay
attention
to
as
we
as
we
move
in
this
direction.
and
just
kind
of
be
aware,
of,,
because
there's
a
lot
of
things
going
on
around
the
country
in
regards
to
the
the
focus
and
the
push
for
electrification.
A
Heather
sandine:
couple
of
other
areas
I
want
to
mention
real
quickly-
is
our
ev
charging
requirements.
we're
really
going
to
be
looking
at
updating
those
the
model.
Electric
ready
and
solar
ready
code
for
the
state
was
released.
Last
week,
and
95
of
our
easy
charging
is
in
line
with
that
code.
already
we
have
to
up
some
of
the
anni
for
multi-family,
and
it's
an
increase
of
5,.
I
believe,
on
the.
A
Heather
sandine:
the
ev
ready
side..
I
remember
correctly..
It
goes
from
10
to
15.,
but
we're
not
just
going
to
be
looking
at
meeting
that
we're
going
to
be
looking
at..
What,
depending
on
the
feedback
we
get
if
it
makes
sense
to
push
the
envelope
and
actually
move
the
needle
on
that
and
and
look
at
it,
requiring
more
e
to
be
charging.
A
Heather
sandine:
another
side.
that
we're
looking
at
also
is
the
electric
bike
charging
in
terms
of
multi-family.
As
it's
become
one
more
prevalent
across
the
city.,
we
want
to
look
at
a
way
to
not..
I
don't
want
to
say
so
much
as
regulate
this,,
but
how
to
handle
it
and
kind
of
focus
on
it,,
since
it's
becoming,
we're
seeing
more
and
more
of
it
throughout
the
city.
A
Heather
sandine:,
so
the
next
area
here
we
all
talked
about
the
electrification
side.,
now
we're
looking
at
what
we
can
do
to
help
the
environment
by
limiting
fossil
fuel
and
natural
gas
use.,
and
so
we're
looking
at
a
hundred
offsets
of
natural
gas..
So
one
thing
I
mentioned
real
quickly,
with
residential
residential,
currently
has
these
net,
these
offsets
in
place
for
anything
outside
of
the
home.
A
Heather
sandine:,
and
so
we
currently
require
a
hundred
percent
offset
for
any
fossil
fuel
heating,
that's
outside
of
home
for
a
pool
or
a
spot
things
of
that
nature.,
and
so
what
we're
wanting
to
do
here
is
provide
some
more
guidance
for
some
of
the
different
heating
options
that
we
see
outside
of
the
home,
be
electric,,
resistant,,
heating.,
maybe,,
sauna,
things
of
that
nature.
That
really
doesn't
have
it's
it's
kind
of
fall
into
more
of
a
gray
area.
When
we
look
at
it
through
the
the
lens
of
code.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
so
we
come
back
here,,
basically
the
full
circle,
where
we
really
look
at
the
embodied
carbon
reduction.
Here.,
and
so
one
thing
I
want
to
note-
is
buildings
in
and
of
themselves,
account
for
about
39
of
the
greenhouse
gas
emissions
that
are
out
there.
a
quarter
of
those
gas
emissions
come
from
embodied
carbon,,
and
so
many
of
us
here
will
we
throw
around
the
term
carbon
so
often.,
it's
when
we
refer
to
carbon.
we're
not
really
referring
to
carbon
in
the
periodic
table.
we're
referring
to
co,
2.
A
Heather
sandine:,
and
so
that's
one
thing.
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
we
were
all
clear
on
the
2
items
that
we're
going
to
focus
on
here
is
our
operational
carbon
as
well
as
our
embodied
carbon.
and
so
operational.
Carbon
is
really
what
the
energy
code
addresses.
it's
how
the
building
operates,
the
energy
efficiency.
and
so
operational
carbon
is
any
carbon
dioxide
that
is
going
to
be
put
off?
as
the
building
is
being
managed,
and
processes,
and
things
of
that
nature.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
so
there
are
a
couple
of
categories
that
they've
tried
to
simplify
things
and
make
it
a
little
easier
to
understand.,
and
so
these
are
kind
of
the
biggest
categories
that
have
the
lowest
hanging
fruit
that
we
would
say
in
the
first
3
really
deal
with
concrete
rebar
and
insulation,
and,,
as
you
can
see,
the
majority
of
those,.
If
you
were
able
to
follow
through
those,
you
could
have
anywhere,
from
what
looks
like
a
on
on
the
low
end,,
probably
a
30
to
40%
reduction
in
the
bonded
carbon.
A
Heather
sandine:,
and
so
this
is
something
that
we
could
look
at
as
a
possibility,
maybe
require.
here's
5
options.,
you
have
to
choose
3
of
them
or
2
of
them
and
then
start
moving
the
needle
in
the
direction
that
we
need
to
to
really
kind
of
focus
on
this
reduction
in
body
carbon..
There
are
tools
that
are
out
there
that
can
help
help
with
these
these
carbon
values
and
these
ratings.
on
the
single
family
side,,
it's
very
similar
to
a
hers
rating
or
an
ei..
It's
a
carbon
rating,.
It's
very
new.
A
Heather
sandine:
and
then
also
on
the
on
the
commercial
side..
Some
folks
may
have
heard
of
a
life
cycle,
assessment.
and
so
life
cycle
assessment
really
looks
at
how
a
building
impacts
its
environment.
and
it
looks
at
from
anything,
from
the
materials
throughout
the
whole
life
of
the
building
to
basically
deconstruction
and
how
it's
going
to
to
end.
and
and
so
so,
yeah,
so
basically,.
It's
the
environmental
impact
over
that
process
of
that.
A
Heather
sandine:,
it's
a
very
broad
overview..
We
understand
that.
and
so
our
intents
to
come,
back.
after
we
have
more
substance
from
our
consultants
and
our
work
on
this
to
really
present,
as
we
move
forward
with
these
ideas.
and
so,.
Just
to
give
you
a
quick
idea
of
our
next
steps,
we're
looking
to
incorporate
this
feedback
from
planning
from
the
environmental
advisory
board
and
as
well
as
city
council.-.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
and
so
what
I
want
to
leave
you
with
really,
are
these
questions
that
we
wanted
to
put
forth,,
and
I
know
they
are,
rod.,
so
I
apologize.
we're
just
really
early
on
in
the
process
for
this
project
right
now.,
but
we
figured
it's
better
to
get
in
early
on
and
to
get
everyone's
buy
in.
So
the
first
question
really
wants
to
know..
Do
you
agree
with
the
areas
of
focus
that
we're
looking
at
here?.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
so
38%
comes
from
electricity
and
37%
from
transportation.,
so
I'm
wondering
if
transportation
is
pretty
close.
Is
that
within
the
scope
of
this?
Is
that
something
that
can
be
addressed
at
all.
or
is
that
a
kind
of
a
separate
issue??
I
think
that'll
probably
answered
a
little
bit
better.,
but
I
would
say,
that's
probably
outside
of
the
scope
of
this
energy
code
typically
deals
with
just
mainly
buildings
and
structures.,
but
I
think
that
it's
valid.
and
I
think
that
that's
something,.
A
A
Heather
sandine:-
and
this
is
this-
is
a
small
component
or
a
contract
small.,
but
the
overall
strategy
toward
the
meeting,,
the
community's
goals,
and
this
is
been
adopted,,
so
we
can
only,
of
course,
so
much
for
every
single
piece,
it's
adding
together..
Ultimately,
we
try
to
tackle
everything
in
one
project.
A
Heather
sandine:
and
you
have
something
out
there.
all
this
really,
hey?,
taking
that
that
next
step,
it's
josh.
and
this
presentation
was
showing
along
again,,
stepping
it
every
3,
years,,
plus
or
minus.,
and
that
was
the
goal
originally
in
the
process..
We
talked
about
how
you
continue
to
ratchet
it
down
in
this
area..
There
are
other
things
that
are
my
plate.
come
on,,
as
I'm
sure
that's
some
value
in
the.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
removing
barriers
to,
for
example,,
even
adoption
or
mobility
strategies,,
particularly
for
higher
density
housing,
multi-family
properties,
where
you
don't
want
people
having
to
take,
like
the
bikes
up
and
share
storing
apartments
and
those
types
of
things..
So
thinking
about
where
that
nexus
is
on,,
that's
when
they,
the
breath
of
transportation.
A
A
Heather
sandine:
okay.
heather
sandine:,
so
I
I
I
don't
know
off
the
top
of
my
head
on
that.,
but
we
can..
We
can
definitely
get
back
to
you.,
you
might.,
you
might
have.,
you
might
have
a
ballwork.,
ip,
and
yeah,
for
new
construction..
It's
almost
all
over
3,000
square
feet,,
except
for
like
80
users,
and
maybe
some
of
our
smaller,,
the
town
home
type
ones.
That
might
be
just
a
little
bit
smaller.,
but
there
is
still
kind
of
a
as
that
curve.
As.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
that's
that
was
some
of
the
reason
kind
of
we
looked
at,
you
know,,
allowing
for
maybe
an
alternative
program.,
and
so
we
had
some
other
suggestions.
Of,
you
know,,
looking
at
a
some
more
stringent
programs.
and
the
reason
we
look
to
kind
of
an
alternative
program
along
the
lines
with
the
0
energy
ready
is
a
lot
of
the
homes
are
currently
doing.
That.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
I
I
do
think
we
have
some
concerns
that
people
might
just
keep
repairing,
and
so
I
think
there
needs
to
be
some
compliments
to
help
them
make
the
right
choice,
not
just
required
in
code..
So
I
think
that's
one
of
the
things
we're
we're
really
thinking
about
is
how
you
couple
it
with
incentives
or
other
things
to
drive.
Successful
outcomes.
yeah,
covid
alone
isn't
going
to
do
it.,
yeah,
yeah.
and
I
think
the
real
nexus
is
getting
the
community
engaging
with
the
right
parties,,
because
then
at
least,
you
have
everyone's
buy
in.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
so
currently
the
way,.
What
I
would
say
is
the
way
that
denver
is
viewing
is
possibly
how
we
would
do
it
right,
now.
and
so
commercial
kitchen,
search.,
and
the
reason
for
that
is
with
a
lot.
That's
going
on
with
the
berkeley
case
out
in
california
and
preemption
on
the
table..
We're
we're
looking
at
different
avenues
to
try
and
tackle
that.
But
it's
it's
very
in
touch
and
go
subject.,
and
so.
A
Heather
sandine:
at
this
moment
we
really
don't
have
a
good
answer
on
it,,
but
it's
something
we're
really
looking
at,
considering
in
all
honesty,.
It
looks
like,.
Let
me
go
for
electrification
and
try
to
do
all
the
interpretation.,
but
there
are
some
great
offs.
yeah,,
that's
why,,
you
know,,
you
might
have
certain
types
of
tolerate
not
to
require
up
and
playing
cooking.
In
there.,
it's
pretty.
I
like
to
find
cooking
over
an
electric
range..
You
know
some
of
those
thing,
and
then
cultural
reasons
in
that.,
so
you
know,,
it's
you're
gonna
be
reasonable.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
you
know,.
I
have
a
lot
of
happen.
and
then,
of
course,.
We
we
know
what
I
take
circumstance.,
but
we
don't
want
to
restaurants,
but
they're,
making
more,
because,
yeah,
that
that
would
be
the
wrong
direction..
I
could
say
that
for
a
lot
of
the
tis
we're
talking
about
with
regards
to
laboratories,
and
that
they
are
coming
in.,
they
are
very
energy
efficient,
too.,
so
they
do
tip
to
scale
on
that..
So
it's.
A
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine::
it's
just
the
fact
that
it's
it's
a
new
path
through
code.,
and
so
we
just
didn't
see
anyone
that
wanted
to
dip
their
to
in
that
water
and
really
try.,
and
so
with
this,
update,.
What
we
really
want
to
do
is
kind
of
nudge
them
into
the
water
to
actually
try
to
see
the
data.
see
where
these
are
actually
performing?,
and
we
do
also
require.
A
Heather
sandine:,
I
think
it's,
the
energy
start
portfolio
manager.
have
the
the
the
projects
have
to
go
in
there
and
actually
update
your
data.
they're
used
to
say,
tickets.
Every,
is
it?
every
3,
every
year,,
every
year?
so.,
but
yeah,.
So
there
they
are,
there..
There
are
tools
that
are
available
where
they
are
able
to
to
track
that.
A
Heather
sandine:
that
usage.,
so
we
also
had
covid.
and
that's
sort
of
whether
anybody
was.
gonna
think
creatively
through
that
kind
of
half
point.
well,
in
that,
through
that,,
through
the
scales
completely
off,,
because
everyone's
home.
now
versus
being
in
offices.,
so
that
changes
kind
of
that
really
kind
of
flip,.
A
lot
of
energy.
B
Heather
sandine:
okay.
heather,
sandine:
okay,.
I
have
a
handful
of
questions.
so
on
that
5%
for
45%
is
that
you
serve
like
a
far
fast
number
that
is
like,,
that
is
the
only
feasible
thing,
or
it..
I
know
I'm
sort
of
like
national
level
like
it.
codes,
is
that
just
sort
of
like
the
will
that
the
national
building
codes
have
or.
A
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
it's
it's
starting
them.
and
then
once
they
get
there,
they're
like,,
well,
where're
you
right,
now?
just
do
5..
We
might
as
well
do
20.
okay,
they're
putting
a
lot
in
the
building.
yeah,
yeah,
okay,
cool.,
as
if,
if
you
were
just
seeing
5%
of
work.,
let's
see
that.
and
then
around
the
incentives
for
the
us.
0
energy
ready.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
there's
older
reports
out
there.,
I
want
to
say
one
of
them
was
looking..
I
want
to
say,
nb,.
I
did
one
of
them
that
could
think
of
the
new
buildings
institute.,
but
it
was
really
when
you
looked
at
going
from
like
0
energy
ready
to
0
0
0
energy,.
It
was
really
a
drop
in
the
hats
to
0,
energy
ready
compared
to
0
energy.,
and
so
what's
the
45
about
tax
credit?,
what
it
did
is
it?.
A
Heather
sandine::
it's
incentivize
to
monitor
that.
If
I
remember
correctly,,
it's
a
thousand
dollars
per
home,.
If
you
do
it
as
energy
star,
and
you
do
5,000
that
you
do
0
energy
ready,
and
then
multi-family,
it's
available
as
well..
So
multi-family,,
it's
$500
a
unit
for
a
multi
family
for
0
energy
ready..
But
if
you
do
prevailing
weights
on
your
multi-family
product.,
it's
$5,000
for
you.
and
do
you
know
what
the
like.
A
A
Heather
sandine:
by
into
that?
or
is
it
a
like??
You
need
a
$10,000
buy-in,
and
you
get
some
amount
of
that
pay
back.,
but
you
need
that
$10,000
upfront..
So
that's
part
of
the
that's
part
of
some
of
the
research
that
our
consultant
is
going
to
be,,
yeah,,
yeah.,
yeah.
and
then
last
question
is
around
the
ev
requirements
for
commercial
buildings?.
A
A
Heather
sandine:
get
in.,
so
is
there
a
way
to
increase
them
like
heather
sandine:
numbers
of
required,,
easy,,
ready
parking
spaces
for
commercials,
buildings.
I'd,
say:
there's
always
the
ability
to
do
that,
honestly.
and
so
the
things
we
try
to.
We
out.
and
it's
more,
I
would
say,
for
the
ev.,
but
it's
the
cost
associated
with
those,,
because
the
costs
are
still
a
little
high..
They
are
coming
down.,
but
that
is
one
thing
that
we're
trying
to,
we
as
well.,
but
but
to
answer
your
question:
absolutely.
yes,.
We
could
definitely
look
at
racing.
Those
numbers.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
the
the
real
cost
comes
in
in
2
areas,,
which
is
like
how
much
pre-wiring
you
do
if
it's
not
actually
going
to
have
stations
installed.
and
then
the
second
one
is,.
If
you
totally
service,,
you
have
to
provide.
okay,
and
that's
a
pretty
big
cost.,
and
so
I
think
that's
the
thing
we
would
just
want
to
balance,
and
in
both
cases,,
but
for
sure..
I
I
think.
A
Heather
sandine:
I'm
like
to
advocate
for
at
least
time
away.
I
mean,
the
way
trends
are
going.,
yeah,,
more
and
more
people
are
running
larger
cars.
and
so
they're
like
they're,
going
to
be
needed
at
some
point,
anyways.,
and
so
it
would
be
nice
to
just
see
the
building
codes
reflect
that,
because
that
will,
I
mean
over
costs
on
those.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
because
some
of
that
0
codes
can
be
pretty
simple
because
it's
pretty
straightforward.,
it's
like
you,
have
to
have
0
for
energy
use.,
and
so
it's
like
they.
They
they
tell
you
how
to
get
what
the
goal
line
is,
and
you
have
to
get
there.
now,,
there's
other
codes..
I
believe
the
2021
icc
has
a
net
0
section
in
it.,
yeah.
ped
next,.
Thank
you.
that
it's,
I
think
we
got
a
couple
of
pages.
A
Heather
sandine:,
but
it's
it's
very
broad
on
how
you
do
it,,
because
it
it
kind
of
leads
it
up
to
the
home
owner.
on
on
discovering
their
path,
forward.
and
so
with
us,,
with
the
energy
code.
there's
other
things..
I
mean,
you
know,
it's
when
we
look
at
it.
yeah,
equity..
It's
like
you
can
do
that
0
across
the
board
for
everyone.,
but
that
does
work
for
everything.
and
so.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
more
efficient
appliances
than
than
energy
star..
It
could
be
through
more
solar,
so
they
have
the
greatest
amount
of
flexibility
with
that,.
When
you
move
to
certification,,
then
it
starts
to
set
some
more
levels
of
requirements..
So
there's
pros
to
that.
obviously,,
because
you're,
not
necessarily
just
using
a
lot
of
solar
to
offset
a
port
recording.
A
Heather
sandine:
some
alternatives
or
more
flexibility
to
design
for,
for
what
we
maybe
aren't,
anticipating
in
just
like
a
a
certification
program,
offers..
So
now
that
that's
kind
of
the
way,
I
I
think
of
the
the
it's
it's
probably
less.
Concerning
for
the
smaller
homes.,
I
think
when
we
start
to
see
some
of
the
larger
custom
phones.,
they
do
different
things
or
or
or.
A
A
Heather
sandine:
what?,
what
exactly
heather
sandine:
it'll
do
like
again,.
If
you
go
put
a
or
something
like
that.,
we
have
one..
So
we
do
have
a.
We
have
a
performance
outcome
for
what?.
It's
not
currently
0.!
It's
it's,,
it's,!
It's
it's!
It's!
It's!
It's
it's!
So
it's!
Basically,
when
you
look
at
me,
ri,,
it's
on
a
scale
of
one
to,
or
one
to,
or
0
to
100.
100
is
a
house.
That's
built
in
2,000.
A
Heather
sandine:
really
is
what
that
that
basis
of
that
code
is.,
and
so
what
we
really
look
at
is
we
want
to
get
it
closer
to
0,,
because
0
on
that
scale
is
you
have
0
energies.
you
offset
all
of
your
energy.
and
so
that's
why,
like,
at
50,.
Typically,
when
you
get
below
like
between
40
to
50,,
that's
when
you're
going
to
start
seeing
people
have
to
add
solar
to
it
down
to
0.,
and
so
the
real
benefit
of
like
the
delay,
the
deal
is,
or
when
it's
you
ready.
A
Heather
sandine:,
you
can
see
before
renewable..
It's
focused
on
the
building
focus
on
the
systems..
Don't
use
solar
as
a
bandage
to
fix
the
problem,,
because
it's
not
one,
too.,
and
so
that's
why
we
have
backstop
in
there
for,,
like
the
the
actual
envelope
and
shuttle
of
the
building,,
to
make
sure
that
we
could
protect
certain
investments
moving
forward
because
systems
may
change
things
like
that..
But
the
envelope
is
something
that
we
could
safeguard.
really,
as
we
move
through
our
energy
go
to
date..
So.
A
A
A
A
heather
sandine:,
you
know
like,,
that's
a
like.!
I
wonder
if
you
will
consider
expanding
this
all
set
for
residential?.
So
so,
typically,
what
we've
seen
usually
is,.
They
do.
they'll,
try
and
offset
the
solar.,
and
so
that's
really
what
we
see
it
come
from
with
the
with
natural
gas..
They
try
to
use
it
to
the
end
of
the
day.,
if
even
if
you're
using
that
0
home
and
they
have
gas
use,,
you
still
have
to
offset
that
gas
use
with
solar
or
another
renewable
doesn't
have
to
be
slipper.
yeah,.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
they
didn't
even
call
me.
just
look
at
it
on
google
maps
and
say,
like,.
You
have
to
many
trees.
and
then
they
didn't
call
me
so,
you
know,
like,,
there's
no,.
I
can't
do
it.
yeah,,
so
it's
like,
okay,,
let's
say,
like,,
do
I
go
down
a
tree?,
well,
no,,
I
wouldn't
say
that..
That's
that's!
That's
a.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
to
create
that
offset..
So
it's
not
just
about
the
rooftop,
and
we
have
pathways
there.
we're
trying
not
to
drive
everybody
to
off
site
solutions,,
because
that's
not
necessarily
advancing
our
reasons
for
having
an
onsite.,
but
it's
definitely
a
tool.
That's
available.,
yeah.
yeah,
in
residential,.
We
have
it
written
in
that
it
is.
You
can
use
it.,
but
you
have.,
there's
a
certain
level
of
due
diligence
that
you
have
to
prove
on
it.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
so
we
don't
have
much
of
what's
so,
what?
well,,
maybe
maybe
the
solution
areas
that
might
be
excel
has
some
kind
of
a
section
to
be
able
to
some
barrier
by
that
they're
going
to
be
doing
this
rebate..
So
I
mean
the
the
answer.
the
answer
to
it:
is,
it.,
it's
since
your
next
call.,
so
they
have
to
take.
A
Heather
sandine:
make
sure
that
they
understand
what
this
net
savings
is
going
to
be
over
here..
They
can
credit
it.,
it's
appropriately.,
so..
That's
why
it's
designed
that
way.!
I
understand
it
doesn't
necessarily
provide
the
adoption,
because
it
doesn't
balance
out
the
costs,
you
know,
by
by
then
saying,
like
we
need,.
We
need
to
be
verified.,
we
don't
know
over
you
for
a
hundred
bucks
for
a
reason
for
that.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
one.
is
that
anything
that
we
can
have
control
over
to?.
Is
that
a
discussion
point
amongst
you
all
at
all??
I
would
say
it
is
a
discussion
point.,
that's
something
that
we're
all
going
to
be
doing
research
on
as
we're
going
to
be
touching
on
and
body
carbon..
That
is
an
aspect
of
the
monte
carlo's
transportation.
and
that's
one
of
the
key
things
really
is
to.
A
Heather
sandine:,
that
might
be
a
real,
a
little
bit
of
a
heavier
lift,,
because
there's
a
lot
of
stakeholders
that
are
involved
in
that
industry.,
and
so
it's
having
people
understand
that.
and
it's
getting
a
lot
of
other
focus
on
board.
as
well
as
we
as
we
look
to
pursue
this,
because
it's
it
it
takes..
This
is
this,.
This
topic
here
really
will
take
the
village
to
make
sure
that
we
can
move
the
needle
on
it,
because,
it..
It
is
the
next
frontier
that
we're
seeing.
and
the
reason
that
we
looked
at,
is
it?.
A
Heather
sandine:
energy.
energy
is
just
one
piece
of
it..
It's
the
operational
side..
We
really
want
to
look
at
it,.
You
know
everything..
So
that's
why
I
really
looked
at
this.
but
but
yeah,
it
sorry
for
the
long
answer
to
your
question.,
but
yes,
we
will
be
looking
at
some
hopefully,
that'
be
careful
of
us..
We
can't
really,
through
code,,
show.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
it's
your
question
with
it.,
so
elaborate,
more
on
what
you
were
talking
about
with
concrete..
Are
you
saying
that
there
are
more
concrete
providers
in
colorado,
or
the
their
more
jurisdictions,
require?
yeah,,
there's
more
jurisdictions,
putting
requirement
on
party
content
in
concrete
and-
and
so
that
means
our
a
great.
A
Heather
sandine:
cart,
sequester,
currently
mix
into
the
the
concrete
that
to
meet
the
lower,,
the
anti-
standard
for
the
lower
carbon
material.
part
of
how
to
look
at
that
is,.
If
more
users
have
the
same
requirement,
and
then
the
providers
are
going
to
meet
it
because
they
they
have
a
market,,
they
really
don't
have
a
choice..
So
if
we
decide
we
want
to
go
from,
or
the
main
users
are
up
here,.
We
have
to
determine.
well.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine::
is
there
a
way
to
wrap
into
that
discussion?
non
homeowners,
unhouse
populations
as
well
as
you
know.?
What
benefits
might
they
see,
or
there
things
that
we
might
be
missing,
that
they
can
benefit
from
kind
of
this
code
planning
process
that
maybe
we
haven't
accounted
for,
because
we're
very
focused
on
those
who
own
homes.
obviously,?
There's
a
commercial
sector
involved
in
this.
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
it's
a
different
call
for
rentals,,
right
or
not,
for
the
construction..
So
it's
important
to
point
out
that
you
know
this
is
not
written
towards,,
whether
it's
own
or
occupy
rent,
or
occupy,,
or
some
other
piece,
and,
in
fact,
september,.
The
the
residential
being
built,
is
rental
here
and
has
to
meet
the
us..
It's
the
high
to
part
of
the
centers,,
because
it's
multi
family.,
we
don't
look
at
it.
Different.
there.
the
city
does
have
in
place
on
I'll
call
it
the
same.
Family.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
I'll
mention
that
with
the
right
and
heather
sandine:
that
financial
backstop.
and
we're
certainly
looking
at
that,,
I
think,
to
keep
in
mind
the
affordable
housing
is
being
built
now
generally
is
coming
under
the
commercial..
So
we
don't
really
see
the
3,005
that
could
be
portal.
Housing
is
not
building
the
individual.
and
I
don't
foresee
that,
you
know,
changing.,.
A
Heather
sandine:
yeah,.
I
can
say
that
equity
is
really
a
a
key
piece
for
me..
I
I
can
say
that
I've
been
here
since
october.,
I
can't
afford
to
live
in
boulder..
I
have
a
home,
that's
1,300
square
feet.
time
is
saved,,
but
I
have
a
home,
and
so
it's
it
does
hit
home
for
me
on
the
equity
piece,
you
know,,
you
want
to
make
it
available.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
infiltration,
testing.
and
in
single
family
home
multi
family,.
We
know
that
as
those
units
get
smaller,
it
becomes
harder
and
harder
to
hit
those
targets..
So
we
know
that
as
the
the
alterations
and
the
homes
get
smaller,,
it
can
become
harder
and
harder,
and
then
back
to
the
point
of
solar.
well,,
they
may
not
have
space
on
their
site,,
you
know,
and
so
there's
certain
constraints
to
that.
We're
looking
at.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
some
of
the
things
we're
trying
to
solve,
for
we're
things
that
we're
hearing
from
the
for
other
public..
So
but
it's
maybe
not
as
correct.
here's
what
we're
thinking
about
with
the
building
shows.,
but
I
think
we've
certainly
been
hearing
about
experiences
and
challenges
when
particularly
going
far
with
these
projects
that
we're
starting
to
carry
forward..
That's
I
think
it's
back
to
the
practicality
point.
right?.
We
take
it.,
we
take
the
code
in
there.
and
it
could
be
this
level.
and
after
talking
with
everyone,,
they
may
range.
B
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
because
I
think
that's
not
in
building,,
you
know,,
since
you
know,
building
code
trades,
materials,,
if
they're
legal
in
the
final
construction,
that's
still
legal..
So
if
you
have
to
live,
what
is
so,,
we
have
like
that,.
There
is
a
different
project
under
way
right
now,,
because
it
was
like
the
large
service
and
requirements,
the
epa,,
the
state
of.
A
A
Heather
sandine:
it's
covered
in
so
generally,,
though
we
are
not,,
we
much
of
our
stock
in
any.,
it's
like
pretty
rare,,
I
mean,
they.
They
tended
to
use
them
back
in
the
day
because
they've
been
on
roll
like
copper,
pipe.
now,.
That
is
exactly
easy
to
install..
Once
they
got
to
the
house,
they
would
typically
transition
to
steel
piping.
A
B
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
what
we,
what
we
see
we
do
not
have
a
very
confidence
that
we
don't
have
a
situation
like
detroit
or
any
so
in
different
parts
of
the
us..
But
it
was
a
much
more
prepaid
and
older..
It's
not
a
that
so
far.
by
october
2024,,
you
know,
we're
going
to
be
able
to
send
it
much
more
certainty
to
a
high
price.
A
A
Heather
sandine:
you'll
be
ecc.
even
in
2,024,,
and
I'm
wondering
why
not
retail
or
small
hospital,
or
it's
a
small
hotel,
right?.
So
so
I
put
those
on
the
that
list
there,
because
there,
there
is
a
lot
more
that
are
available..
Currently
I
want
to
say,
when
we,,
when
we
probably
look,
set
out
to
do
the
2020
k.
back,
we
were
wanting
to
pick
a
set
amount
of
buildings,
and
they
probably
have
a
limited
number
of
building
types
of
choose
from
previously.
A
A
Heather
sandine:
also
interesting
because
we,
as
this
board
had
a
presentation
earlier
about
consumption
based
accounting.,
and
we
saw
that
hospitals
with
health
care
for
a
huge
portion
of
our
body,
carbon
and
obviously
have
a
lot
of
different
moving
parts
and
obstacles
to
decarbonization.
but
yeah..
So
I'm
I
guess
my
question,
for
that
would
be.
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
I
don't
think
we've
thought
about
that,,
but
that's
not
a
bad
idea.
I
don't
know
about.,
I
I
would
question.
we're
not
building
the
boss.
no,
exactly,
exactly,
exactly,,
and
that's
that's
kind
of
why
I
was.
that
was
my
other..
They
probably
left
it
out
because
we
don't
see
the
obstacles.
but
but
for.,
but
I
think
what
we
were
doing.
Here.
yeah,
all
there.
yeah.,
so
yeah,
for
it's
really
to
gain
the
design
professionals
that
that
handle
those
buildings.
A
Heather
sandine:
what
they've
seen
and
kind
of
what
what
they
would
recommend..
I
say
the
people
in
the
buildings
wouldn't
have
a
good
idea,,
but
their
jobs
a
little
different
than
understanding
the
materials..
And
so
that's
why
my
thought
was
just
go
to
the
source,,
maybe
with
that.,
but
that's
a
great
comment..
I
didn't
even
think
about
that.
and
that's
not
really
it..
It's
a
difficult
stick
to.
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
and
so
they
do
still
have
a
pathway
through
it..
It's
it's
a
little
bit
more
intensive
because
they
have
to
model
the
baseline
in
that.,
but
but
I
think,
too,
like
when
looking
at
hospitals.,
one
of
the
key
things,
I
think,
with
hospitals,
is
concrete,
concrete,,
one
of
the
lowest
hanging
through
when
it
comes
to
early
carbon
reduction..
That's
probably
what
they
mentioned
on
the
slide..
It's
and
that's
kind
of
back
to
our
point
of
they're
singly.,
yeah,
yes,,
it's
a.
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:
yeah,,
I
mean,
aware
of
it.,
but
there
was
some
research
that
was
recently
done
on
a
roman
buildings,
the
environment
buildings
and
how
they
manufactured
concrete
in
a
way
that
was
actually
less
energy
intensive,
and
they
added
limestone,.
So
that,
the
concrete
could
actually
regenerate
itself.
A
A
B
A
A
A
A
A
A
B
A
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
that
might
be
more
like
higher
cost.,
but
if
the
city
could
offer
an
incentive
to
sort
of
mirror,
that
so
that
you
could
have
sort
of
some
more
efficiency
within
the
codes
that
is
enabled
by
sort
of
city
incentive..
I
don't
know
what
extent
do
that
already,.
But
it's
it'd
be
great
to
see
that
if
it
isn't
done.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
B
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Heather
sandine:,
but
yeah,
just
basically,.
I
think
we've
got
a
little
more
information
before
we
say,
like,
it's,.
It's
things
that
could
potentially
have
something
that
we
could,
you
know,
voice
in
on.,
but
it
there
isn't
that
information
involved
to
really
know.
and
then
I
think
I
would
go
similarly
about
the
golden
junction.
Land.
use,
math
amendments,
again.,
yeah.,
more
information.,
just
to
understand
that.!
That's
you
know
what
is
the
data
that
that
is?
september
20.
first.
A
Heather
sandine:,
I
just
don't
know
what
this
is.
I'm
not
sure.
yeah,
I
can..
What's
the
date
of
that?,
that
is
one
of
our
22..
I
just
don't
know
what
it
is.,
but
if
it's
planning,
it
could
be
related
to
environmental.
yeah,
we're
gonna
have
an
environment
to
it.
Definitely.
get
more
information
from
you.
all.