City of Boulder, CO Housing Advisory Board, 16 Dec 2020

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: 12-16-20 City of Boulder HAB Meeting

Description

12-16-20 City of Boulder HAB Meeting

A

Hit record and I'm admitting all folks in the waiting room: okay, beautiful.

B

Oh okay, oh danny's, in the waiting.

C

Room, can I please go first. I have to be at testify at open space board of trustees at 6 10.. Can I please go first, please lindsay yeah.

B

Lynn, that's fine! Let me just call the meeting to order. um Oh hang on here. Sorry we're just gonna. Okay, we're just gonna call this meeting to order right away so that lynn can speak. um Let's do roll call real, quick, okay, perfect! I'm just going to go across my screen here, rock julienned.

B

Okay, you're a mute, but I can. I can hear you juliet boone mason moyer here terry palmos.

D

B

And danny theodorou yeah, we see you hi you're.

E

B

Yes, okay, okay and then judy nog. Here, thanks perfect! Is that it, I think, that's up everyone's here we have a quorum, of course, okay, great and let's um review tonight's agenda. um I have an item to add, but I want to see if anyone else has any any amendments they'd like to make to tonight's agenda.

B

Nope, okay, I would like.

F

One to add right, charlotte you and I have the same one to add. I.

B

Think I think it's just I think so. I was just going to um motion to add an item before 5a to briefly discuss amendments to the ordinance um discussed last night on mobile homes in manufactured housing. I think here about 8432, so just a brief discussion is that going to cover what you, yes, okay, okay, great um great, so motion to um add an item before 5a to discuss the amendments to ordinance 8432 regarding mobile homes and manufactured housing.

G

I'll second, it.

B

Okay, all in favor.

B

One two three four five and then yes, okay, perfect thanks thanks judy um passes unanimously and judy. If you want to because your videos off, if you feel like, if you want us, maybe you can always just speak or raise your hand just want to make sure that you're going to be able to say what you need to say so, okay, perfect great um with that said, we'll just move to public participation um and lynn will let you go first but jay. If you want to put on the timer. That would be great.

B

B

Okay, let's see, let's see someone unmute lynn.

B

Oh it's here, hang on here, lynn, I'm gonna, unmeet, okay,.

C

This week at the um this is lynn siegel 538 dewey this week at the cu south meeting, I had an epiphany of the problem to boulders housing problem housing issue, and that is, um it was eu that gave me this idea because I said: there's 66 000 students. In the cu system.

C

There are 35 000 students in boulder with a population of 107 000 and the other 30 some thousand are put between.

C

303.5 million people in denver and in colorado springs, so why aren't they absorbing all of these undergraduate students? There's probably 60 percent of the campus here is undergrads and friend, raper from community relations and public relations from cu said that this is the research campus.

C

Well, I don't think so, so we need to make it a research campus, and I say if you want to make a reason to you're not having to be here, because, ultimately, you don't want to have to have a housing board, because housing is no problem in boulder. Right then make some directive to the city of boulder to get these students out of town. These undergrads need to go. Francis draper said it herself. This is a research campus.

C

We not only do we not need cu south, we don't need them, threatening us about floodplain and all of this issue. We've got plenty of things that we have to cover with infrastructure in boulder. Without the burden of this you know 20 some thousand students that are undergrads that are not part of the research campus. They need to go to denver and colorado springs. So just tell tell the city of boulder they may need to activate on that issue, because it's it's it's a huge huge thing.

C

I was just at the east boulder working group today, housing. How are you going to everybody housing housing? How are you going to house me and my family? We want to own. You know the hispanic community, the service people, um it's not going to happen. It's never going to happen when we've got 20 000 high-end students here taking up the population in this town and it's a hundred and seven thousand people. We should not have that burden.

C

You can figure out the you know how many people per population how many students per population we are supporting and it's outrageous what we're what we've taken on in this community and it's unacceptable and it's got to change.

C

This is not a benefit for for boulder anymore and francis draper said it herself, it's a research campus, so we need to repurpose it to be truly a research campus thanks. A lot bye.

B

Thanks lynn appreciate it have fun at the oh yeah well,.

C

Unfortunately, all of these- it's it's- it's um integrated all of these different boards and these departments are all integrated. There's, not one thing that doesn't touch the other, so I have to be in two places at once. Twice this week same thing, another night, good.

B

Luck thanks, lynn! Thank you. Okay, great um we'll have david speak next, david. Are you still in I'm.

H

Here you are, thank you have if you guys could open up the email. I sent you most recently, the one that says easier easier, so that has a few uh pictures in there that I think, will help us well. Thank you so much for having me and for your beautiful service.

H

um I read your letter and I understand some frustration which I share, of course, but I want to lift you up and, as greta thunder said on democracy now yesterday and I'll, give you a link, we're going in the wrong direction.

H

But you are the hope- and I really believe that about you, guys, you're, a great group and as martin luther king said, uh land use and housing are really the keys to overcoming the segregation and separation that explains so much of our current politics and now is really the time it's a great, unprecedentedly great time to transform.

H

So I just want to sort of re-um propose this housing model, um this revision of the housing model um that we proposed with the back porch group back a few years ago, and I want you to understand it that it aims to change the model from the barbell society of rich and poor to a bell curve model of mostly middle-income housing that we produce not that we don't produce low-income housing or but we're making mixed income housing.

H

And so it aims to change the model and it aims to do it by creating a few examples that have a lot of neighborhood input at the beginning that people can see, and then we can evaluate the best ideas. So, just in the pictures there you see the history goose creek brought together folks from all sides of the housing debate, starting in 2016. We met for two years and they came up scott holton there. The developer on the left came up with the idea of doing some pilots.

H

So now, let's just look at this graph a little bit- and this is you know the promise of this idea. So the green is all housing units that we produce historically starting in 1960 in the city of boulder, and um the blue at the bottom is for sale, feed restricted. You know where it is and where it could go with our pilot and in the middle is the crash that has occurred with for sale, middle-income housing where there's virtually none of that available any longer.

H

So that's the that's the picture that we're trying to improve with the blue line, arcing up as we as we try some pilots, and then we say: oh here's, here's some things that we can do to um that would really work for everyone, let's so the third, the final image there is just one example of a pilot: we bought 750 north street and we've been trying to do this eight unit micro condo project.

H

There we proposed it in the middle the midterm, update apparently so anyway, we'd uh we're now we're just going to build a co-op there, but we'd like to um you know create some area where we could do these pilots next year. Council said they would consider it in the retreat and we'd.

H

Like you, our ask for you is, if you like this idea, please remind council members by email or, however, that it would be great to consider that in the retreat- and maybe you all could take this idea up next year, you've been doing great work, the tiny homes, the homeless issue very important, and this is part of that. You know.

D

Instead of doing it.

H

Instead of doing just one kind of housing, let's do mixed income housing. So thank you so much for your beautiful work. I really appreciate it.

B

Thanks david, I just have a quick follow-up question. um Is that graphic the last one or the the rendering is that uh is? That is this uh sorry, if I missed this, is this a land trust proposal or is this um this is or is this a middle-income housing? I'm sorry, I didn't have time to delve into everything. Is this.

H

This is an example of the model we're trying to promote and there's a secret sauce in there, charlotte of of a group of people coming together to propose this densification, which is what we did there and then the city says oh you're going to do shared vehicles, it's going to be all permanently affordable for a mixed income group: okay, we're going to let you do that and then they donate the land to the community land trust.

H

So the land trust owns the land, the people who buy the units own their units- and um you know so- these units cost a hundred and fifty to four hundred thousand dollars in that model. Now we're going to do a co-op instead, where the shares are 200 dollars and two hundred fifty thousand dollars, but it costs you. You know thirteen hundred to two thousand dollars a month.

I

H

This this cool building, so that's.

G

What we're doing now, thank you.

J

Charlotte, can I ask david a question also.

B

Please yeah yeah. It's fine.

J

Hey david, it's jack, a question or maybe a couple questions for you. I want to understand so the the challenge with this project that you've got in front of us here, and the reason that you're now doing a co-op is simply because the city, the city process didn't allow for the density that you were looking for on this lot is that right.

H

We had a big win, you know in we, you know the housing boulder 2014 2015 identifies this as the key priority then uh midterm or the update. um We got this idea of doing infill pilots into the boulder valley, comprehensive plan, and we thought oh we're home free now, but you know we tried all different ways: they just couldn't figure out how to do it.

H

Bob yates says we'll put it in the midterm update and let's discuss it there, so we do that, but still there's just this block and council actually considers it, but they can't you're not supposed to do anything important in the midterm. Update turns out so so now at the retreat. uh You know, sam weaver was for it. We met with him, he was for it. Many council people were for it. um So it's just one of those ideas that people need to consider and think about.

H

Oh here's a way we can actually have beautiful housing, everyone likes it. They saw it, they toured it. You know this version of it that version of it. I'd like to have this next to me, I'm not threatened by this. It's not going to decrease property value. Well, they're doing this shared vehicles not going to not going to increase traffic, it's going to reduce traffic, not going to block anyone's view wow. We can do.

J

It david, let me let me just ask if I may start it continue with another question, um briefly david. This is just so the pilot that you're talking about. Currently, you have one pilot that you're proposing in the.

H

That was just an example, so.

J

G

K

H

You know not just this one idea, you know, maybe you have one or charlotte has one or terry has one or whoever you know. That was what you know. Jay was trying to help us create. You know, have a have a something that meets certain criteria, but it could take different forms and we were just showing here's how you could do it without a subsidy on one lot all permanently affordable, no added cars, and so would you our example.

J

So, for example, what you need is the city to create, within their code structure or their regulatory structure, something that would allow for a pilot project in such a way that it would be excluded from certain current zoning rules under this um umbrella, category of being a pilot, correct.

H

And it already exists, so it got put in that that already exists in the boulder valley, comprehensive plan, page 112., it's right there, and so this is like operationalizing it. So.

J

How would we do that david? That's what I want to be clear on, but it does not exist within the city ordinance. It's in the comp plan. That's one thing, but it's not within city ordinances. That's.

H

Right, we need to do a special ordinance and we we're trying to.

G

H

Nod of five we've written an ordinance staff, you know someone smart, like jay et cetera, could could you know, take what we've we've written up and and make it something council consider it they could vote on it and we could all get off to the races. We build five. The first year we build ten the next year, all.

J

Right thanks david, I'm gonna.

H

Thank you. Thank you.

B

Thank you so much we're going to mute. You now.

H

Please do please.

B

No, no, no, you guys can con continue the conversation another time um and I I will also follow up with you. Oh sorry, didn't mean to ask son meet you, my bad okay, jay. You can unshare your screen. I think unless there are other speakers- oh william, sorry, I william, would you like to speak as, oh sorry, sorry. I asked to unmute him sorry guys, I'm like not doing so hot.

B

I asked william to unmute, but I can't hear.

G

B

Corey, do you know william wants to speak.

B

B

I asked william, I don't know it doesn't seem like he wants to speak. That's okay,.

A

B

Okay, I just want to be sure you can okay, great woo, that was fun um great well. There are no other speakers, then we'll continue to the approval of minutes from november 18th. Are there any amen? You know amendments edits that folks would like to make to the agenda from last meeting.

B

No okay, great um perfect. Can I get a motion to approve the minutes from november 18th, all right, danny um close the motion seconded all in favor um great passes unanimously and now we'll move on to matters from the board, but I'm just going to meet myself for one second, because my parents are speaking and it's really distracting.

B

B

Sorry, it's really distracting people on like burr lives in the kitchen. It's just like a mess. Okay. Here we go we're going to the amended item which I'm going to add, and so this this can be very brief. In response to the topic um a topic actually introduced.

B

You know, in our letter rachel friend suggested that our board look at um ordinance 8432 the amendments to the ordinance in january to our next meeting, so that we can provide council with some suggestions for their second reading and numerous council members, including kurt fernham, agreed that you know we discussed this item in greater depth um and I know that jay might want to speak to this a little bit. um Jay there's I know you and corey were talking about some back and forth with some other staff members.

B

Was there anything you wanted to add about habs participation and in that.

L

Yeah, so I can provide a little bit of background. I was also on the council meeting last night, um so um what the project manager can do is um she can prepare a presentation and um send you guys a memo sort of in there it'll be in our in your standard packet in january, um and you know be great to get your feedback as council requested, um and then we would basically delay first reading and second reading to adopt the ordinance.

L

The only sort of slight wrinkle is that mary young was concerned that um this was this was kind of time sensitive. So if you recall the um the manufactured housing strategy, the you know have reviewed that provided feedback input um and then um the ordinance was sort of the implementation piece and that the main bulk of that 95 of it went to council back in september and was adopted. And then this sort of little piece um sort of was a an add-on sort of last-minute request from um park.

L

uh It was from park residents requesting some additional protections uh and so the desire there was a desire to get that done fairly quickly and by the end of the year. So um I think what mary young had asked for was to find out if um that the amendments that crystal under the project manager had proposed were addressed all their concerns sufficiently and if there was an urgency to get this done quicker um and that csc at their um first meeting in january, would sort of make the final decision.

L

um I think our recommendation is still going to be to um have it come back to hab, but I just wanted to warn you if there was sort of a an outcry from sort of those residents saying that we want these protections in place sooner. um That may change. So does that help, or is that way too much information.

B

So if I'm understanding correctly at the cac meeting in january, they'll decide whether we look at it in january or whether we look at it at a later date,.

L

It would be, if you look at it at all.

B

L

G

L

Like I said, our recommendation will be to for have to take a look at it in at your january meeting and postpone, first and second reading. Okay,.

B

With what mary.

L

Had raised at the end.

B

Yeah um mason and then shock.

F

uh And I think jackie were first, if you wanna, if you wanna, okay, um from what I heard last night, when I was watching it was that kurt was for us hearing it and at the very end, what mary and rachel agreed to get their needs met was that we would hear about it on j in our meeting on january 20th and that the hope is that we could come up with something by then. So I I kind of have two parts is that um last night kurt had said the reason we hadn't seen.

F

It was because we were working on other things, and so I'm curious why this didn't come to us sooner instead of and then we wouldn't have had to delay this at all um and if no matter what it could be prepared and presented to us on the night or on the 20th, so that in the future, we're already brought up to speed on where this is at, so that um I I'm hearing from a couple of the different mobile home parks that there's been some consistent stuff going on there and that um there may be a request for us to potentially in the future.

F

With city council participate around some issues with mobile home parks. So um I'd like to be informed on it, no matter what um and see it and hear the presentation so that we have the information and- um and we can go forward with the recommendation- whether um you guys recommend staff recommends we postpone or not.

L

So yeah, I agree the second point, um yes, that we can definitely do a presentation, regardless of what the outcome is at the cac meeting in january.

L

um Let's do your first point, so I mean the reason you that have did not hear the ordinance um is that I brought I did bring it to the chairs. I think it was in either july or august. I don't know jacques or judy you're gonna have to help me remember, um but the focus at that time was really on the uh unhoused issues and the chairs basically declined that.

L

I think the the sentiment that I heard and that I remember is that hab really focused in um and provided input on, the policy which was strategy and that the ordinance was more implementation and that there was a desire to focus on these other things. So, under jacques judy.

E

I have absolutely no recollection of that at all and would be surprised because, um because I want to say something in a little while um about us getting more information, I mean my my uh to me. This is a good example of something that I would like, if possible, for you to talk to all the departments within housing that anything that comes up about housing.

E

It comes to our comes to our table, whether or not I mean just comes to our table and the that that the consensus be included in the minutes. So it's in writing that anything, that's related to housing. We want to hear about we and we, as a group may decide to not discuss it um for whatever reason, but I think we should know about it, and I and I actually don't recall- maybe you do jacques, but I don't recall that at all.

J

You know I have I'll pipe in. I think I do. I have some recollection of a discussion about some changes within the ordinance. I think my recollection is also along the lines with you know. I think.

J

In other words, I guess my question is this one um I'm been rolling through this over the course of the afternoon since I saw it and um I would still.

H

J

My perspective, I don't I'm not I'm. This seems to be a reasonable shift. This ordinance this change. um So I guess one of the questions I had for you jay is. I do agree that I think we were in the homeless, the unhoused world pretty heavily at that point, and I think that I do recall uh sitting and just saying. Well, we think that's the implementation piece of things as you described it and we weren't sure that we needed to be involved in that piece of it.

J

I guess my question would be: are there pieces of this because, as I read through it, there's maybe one or two small items that I might say? Oh, I might have a little feedback on, but in general it seems to be reasonable and um kind of a rational addition.

J

um So are there particular aspects of this jay that there are concerns about that? We think that have made.

J

You know bring a different perspective and mason probably has her pieces too on that which would be great to hear.

F

um Well, it just seems like we're talking about processing content. You know which we've been trying to shake out over our three years of birth anyway, so the process piece when um jay or anybody from housing brings something to the housing advisory board.

F

um If the chair and vice chair, you know how do we, let us decide as a group um and like judy said so that we can hear everything um and somebody may bring up something like it may seem reasonable to you, jacques, but it I might having had lived experience at a mobile home park, see something that somebody else might not see so being included and being able to have that conversation, I think, is important. It should always be presented so that we could be brought up to speed, then with the content side of it.

F

Yes, um you know rachel brought up a really good point. um I heard this on uh on a different side of it is that she was like sometimes hab um or any of the boards are always a part of things that are contentious, so we're always grappling with something that's contentious and she goes. Maybe this is just a win. Maybe it's easy and we all get to go yeah we're on board with it and stamp it, and it goes off and it gets to be the easy win.

F

So, even if it doesn't look like we have anything that we want to raise a flag on, we should also be get to be a part of the wins.

J

And I would I would my you know, I would respond to that as I actually agree with that process piece. um You know. I think this was within the process if we have it set up, but I agree with you that, for instance, had I seen this at that point in time, and I don't even know if this was a completed document at that point in time, jay so.

K

J

That's a good point that judy and mason bring up that. We find a way to bring this into habs orbit so that we can at least understand and be more aware of everything. That's moving around.

K

In the housing world so.

B

Sorry, not terry danny. You go ahead.

I

So I and I I agree uh both mason and jock, and I guess my question is: um how are we trying to figure out how to do this as a process where um you know we have uh a heads up? So if we're gonna have the whole board, address it and discuss and figure it out, so that would obviously have to be in a meeting. So we make that decision at a meeting. How much time would we have typically jay?

I

Do you think until um this thing's moving forward, because you know for it's like let's say we had something at the december meeting and you know almost like we're talking about right now, you know, would we have that opportunity to say yep? We want to have a um have this as a agenda item for the next meeting right, because, if we're figuring these things out on the fly, we might not have the background or the time frame to you know have that substance discussion.

I

So I think maybe we have something where almost like adopt in the minutes. We have an update of everything that comes out and then we can kind of figure out how to agenda. Is that once we have it, but it's really a question of time frame so.

B

Yeah danny, I was gonna, propose yeah. I definitely think that in january we do a deeper dive into this, um because I know not. Everyone has had a chance to look at the um at the ordinance itself. I was only able to get through like half today, um so I I like that process. But um jacques, did you have your hand up again?

B

J

I did sorry, but then I started eating a christmas cookie. um One of my one of my subs brought me a huge tray of cookies. Today, like perfect. um What I was going to respond to was the process piece a little bit and is it? Is it possible and everybody just you know, just looking for feedback? Is it possible to say that if something like this comes up, that is a housing-related issue that we can just be provided that information outside of a meeting.

J

You know at any point in time jay and we can review it. For instance, let's say this came up. We can review it prior to meeting and if members wish feel that there's something of import in there that we want to grapple with or that should be brought up. Like mason says you know, there are things that I'm not aware of, and um others may be or perspectives.

J

Then we could raise a hand and say, let's put it on the agenda, but it would be kind of a first clearing house and if everybody says this looks great, let's you know let it roll on. We don't think we have any additions, then we can let it pass through.

B

Danny go ahead.

I

Zach, that's so sad, that's my concern is you know. The agenda provides notice is part of my my concern right.

I

So the agenda is the mechanism to provide notice for the public as well, um and you know if we're talking about like if we're saying like hey, if there's anything housing related from any of the different city departments, we want to know about it and I'm not I'm I'm open for anything, I'm just trying to figure out how to do it so how much time frame we have and how we can have a mechanism where we decide what we want to hit and what we don't want to hit, because I think we need to make that decision at a at a a a meeting, a public meeting and then we need to schedule it for it, and sometimes we can pop it into the agenda, but it's just a little challenging.

I

So I'm not saying, but that's that's kind of my concern.

B

Okay, I think I saw mason and then terry.

F

Having stopped sat through a lot of those meetings on the agenda um one especially uh now year, three, it's getting less and less and less that the city even brings anything to us. So I personally would be for uh it's an always a yes.

F

If the city brings something to us and wants us to consider or see or view something, it should always go on the agenda when we originally had the meetings, um especially in the first year, the big concern was when we were trying to figure out our direction was that because there were so many activists and people interested in housing that we would get so many projects from the individual board, members that that's what we would manage most is um whose issue should be on the agenda or who's whose initiative or project that they want to work on should be on the agenda.

F

But we've never had that issue and, like I said it's gotten less and less and less. I I'm not sure that I could imagine another year like our first year, where we literally had maybe nine things every agenda. um It was a crazy. We were covering a lot of information um and even doing the un house stuff we should. We should have been able to get one or two more items and to any one of our agendas. So I don't think personally, we should ever deter um our housing departments from bringing something to us.

E

Terry, can I jump in when terry's done too yeah.

B

Yeah judy and then jacques after terry, a couple thoughts.

D

One the uh the idea of well, first of all, I think the issue at hand right now is whether we review this ordinance or not dealing with mobile homes, and I think, we've kind of gone way off that topic and talking about every potential housing field.

D

Can you hear me.

D

One thing two things: one: the idea of having every potential housing issue anywhere in the city coming before us is to me a little broad, um that's one and two. I think what we're trying to talk about now is uh this uh ability to hear this positiveness right or the mobile home ordinance. I'm sorry whether we're gonna weigh in on this in january or thereafter, is that the topic at hand. It seems like we've taken that and gone way left of center talking about process of having more issues, or am I missing something.

F

Yeah, I think, there's two issues like we were talking about the context of being this one particular issue with the mobile home parks and then overall, how we wanted to handle housing issues in the future.

D

Sure so, maybe right now we talk about the mobile home issue because that's what's on the agenda.

F

Actually, we don't have all this stuff, we don't have the emails that came into city council.

D

I understand that so maybe the answer is: let's get all the information because we don't have it and then, if we're asked to review it, we'll do that.

B

Absolutely the intent is for us to have a deeper discussion, a deeper dive in january. um If timing was an issue, I was judy. Sorry, I'm delaying you you're going to be after this, but um you know if timing is an issue. If the dates are a problem, how can can we move our meeting a week earlier?

B

How can we, how can we make ourselves more useful um to counsel if you know if, if the date's an issue and that's going to prevent us from you know discussing it at all I'd say we just move our meeting, um but you know we'll see what other people think about that. I just wanted to throw that out. There.

D

um That's a very good idea because it seems like on several occasions: topics have come before council or whomever mainly council and they're, discussed and decided for the most part, and then we get to weigh in or then we get to hear.

H

Them because the timing doesn't.

D

Line up so I think your idea of if we have to have a special meeting, I don't know if that's possible or if we have to move our meeting to to be able to weigh in before council, makes the final decision I'm all for that, but yeah. I think the issue at hand right now is you know. Are we going to hear about this or not we're not sure, and I think we all? I don't know if we all, but I would like to hear about it.

D

So we could settle on that and that would be good.

B

Yeah so jay, if we decide if we can move our meeting a week earlier- and I don't have a calendar in front of me- would that put us in the window um that council wants us us in since this is a timely issue, and I know there was concern, um let's see so.

E

I was looking one of the things I wanted to point out was at the city council meeting adam accidentally, inadvertently gave the wrong time. He said our meetings are on the third wednesday of every month and I'm pretty sure they're on the fourth wednesday, aren't they of every month. So the date, the date of our january meeting.

B

Think one two, I think, they're the third judy. Oh no they're, not you're right, because this is this meeting was actually moved a week early right.

E

So um so that's something just to throw into the mix. The idea of moving meetings is much easier right now, since we're not meeting in city council chambers, because it's just arranging a zoom. So even if it conflicts with somebody else's meeting, it's not a crisis.

B

F

Mason and also the 20th is the inauguration for anybody who's going to be watching that so.

B

F

B

Yeah so with that said, um jay the question still stands. If we meet the 13th instead of the 20th, when is the cac meeting or what like or I don't know wednesday.

F

Is on the 19th city council's meeting is on the 19th regarding this with public comment. Okay,.

L

Well, for now it's scheduled so they'll decide on uh january 4th at cc whether or not to postpone it and, like I said our recommendation is going to be to postpone it. So I don't think it's an issue. I mean if you would like to move it up and try to be more timely. We could try to arrange that, but um it is a bit of a challenge trying to get everybody's schedule, aligned.

B

Understood yeah uh danny.

I

I I think I think, um particularly in this instance uh moving it up. I mean I think that makes a lot of sense and we don't have to worry. I mean it'd be really important if we just have that you know scheduling snafu, so if we can move it up to the 13th, it works for me, and maybe we just we just uh make a vote, that you can indicate that you know we're all um willing to move it up to the 13th or something.

I

But I'd like to just have that ahead of time, because then we have that opportunity to um you know, have some lead time there for council and then not make the decision to postpone without knowing what we're doing so.

B

F

Jay, can you share why staff is going to make the recommendation to postpone when kurt said last night that he recognized the urgency on it.

L

um Well, I think the feeling is that council asked you to weigh in on it, and you should.

F

Okay, so if we move our meeting to the 13th, um would there be a reason to suggest on the fourth to postpone it then.

L

um I guess it depends on you know the outcome and the type of feedback we get and how long it takes, but yeah. No I mean we can. We can arrange it. I mean we could look at schedules right now and choose that date.

B

Yeah I mean, since that's the agenda item that we're on. I think we we should just deal with it right now um upon first glance of everyone's schedule. How is it would everyone be able to attend the third sorry which date the 13th um january 13th meeting one two? Yes, three? Yes, three, yes, four five and then maybe from juliet okay, okay, okay, I mean corey.

G

A

Yeah I'll be there that week, I have a um council memo actually due that morning. um Okay, let me.

B

Know with us great yeah,.

A

Actually, second reading is going to be going to council that morning. uh My memo submission for for this ordinance.

L

um No it'll get postponed, don't worry.

A

Okay, so that's going to get pushed gotcha, yeah, okay, I'm available count me in.

B

Wow, okay, um then I will propose a motion to move our january 20th meeting to the 13th.

E

It was never the 20th, so you might want to delete that part. Our meeting. That was just something that they said at city council meeting just to have our meeting in january, be on the 13th.

B

Oh all right, but our our meeting would have been scheduled for the 20th right.

M

No, no, it's the 27th senate.

B

Oh, my god, great right, okay, perfect, then from the 27th to the 13th.

G

B

Okay, all in favor.

B

Perfect passes unanimously great um and then sorry, okay, um okay great now that we've dealt with that, I know that there are some outstanding comments that want to be. You know, folks were making about which items are brought to have. Are all the items regarding housing brought to hab.

E

So I have some thoughts on that yeah.

B

Judy, I just wanted you to be able to finish your thought.

E

Yeah thanks, so my thought on that is, it's not any item that comes up any place in the city of boulder on housing necessarily needs to go to us. It's anything that comes up in the housing and human services department.

E

That's going to be going to council, and so as soon as staff starts working on something about housing that they know is going to go to council.

E

We should hear about it and I'd like it to not be jay's responsibility to have to chase after every department all the time to find that out. I I would just like it if we could have a consensus that we'd like to know as soon as we as soon as staff starts working on a project. That's going to counsel in housing and human services that that kurt knows to tell his staff people to notify us and then then we can decide at a meeting.

E

You know we can just be appraised of how it's coming along and figure out. You know if we want to hear something about it or have a presentation or something.

B

um Jay, do you want to comment on that.

L

Well um so I just want to be clear, I mean to me the process. Question is um not necessarily about staff bringing it to have, because I did raise this and I said this would be appropriate for have to review.

L

So I think it's more a question of what's the role of the agenda committee with the chairs and maybe decisions about what gets put on the agenda should be made by the entire board, as opposed to just the chair and the co-chair.

E

How about if, instead of having it be an agenda item in your report, you know how you're you've got that section in the agenda. That's the staff report. You just tell us each each meeting about all the things that are coming up and that way it goes right to everybody there. You know, I I'm really surprised. I mean I'm I'm worried about me having memory issues, because I lived in a mobile home park myself for a year and a half and I I'd be shocked.

E

If I let that go because it's very important to me, so I I actually don't recall it at all, and if I- and if I let it go, I'm really sorry- and you know- and I don't even think I was vice chair in july anymore, but anyway um yeah. So if you could just give a report everything that's going on, then the whole hab could hear everything.

E

Is that possible.

L

um Yeah I mean.

L

I don't see a problem with that. I'm just still concerned that it's not going to solve the problem.

B

Yeah I mean I mean what happened has happened like we can't change what happened in the past. I you know I'll tell you that, if anything has, if anything comes to my attention from counsel, um it would be on the agenda um we just I just haven't. Had that experience um where council asks us to look at anything, and so that's where that's where um that's the mindset I've been operating in, but um I I agree with judy. If council it is going to look at anything related to housing, um we should look at it.

B

It shouldn't even be it's like. It shouldn't even be a choice. It should just come to our board because that's what our board does. um It doesn't need to be this like carried out thing at all. um It's just a matter of like how that information is transferred to us, um but as for now we will be discussing this in january, which is great, um and I wanted to segue to danny. You had your hand up.

I

Yeah- and I I think you know somebody brought up if council sends something to us, I think that's obviously I agree. That's a no-brainer, that's you know, obviously we're gonna I'll, listen to it with the other way. I wouldn't want it to be too much of an imposition just on jay or something like that. So that's why I was saying if it's like here's, a list of things that are you know in the works, go on the city council and I think judah. This is what you're saying I would.

I

I hope it's just just housing related right and not just uh housing and human services, not as broad as that, but here's a list of the things that are going um and we can have that just as a quick line item and hey, do you want to listen? Do you want to um delve into any of these any further, and then we make a decision each meeting for maybe the next meeting or something like that that outside of that it gets a little squirrely. I think.

B

Okay, let me see yeah.

F

um Jay, it seems we've fallen away from this, but something jeff used to do is that we had the housing department's work plan. So we had our work plan and the schedule of that, and then we had the housing department's work plan and what we did was in the agenda meetings. We looked at what was coming up for you guys and because there were so many things going through at that time on how to place them in we did it.

F

Don't you guys remember, judy and jack how we did it at the end of every happy half meeting, we would look at their plan and our plan and we would say how does this look for the next six months? Is everybody on board with how this is shaking out.

E

J

Yeah, I I agree mason I feel like we. We had more transparency into what was happening as a whole and we used to look at that, and I think that would be good to to get back on that track.

E

And, as I recall, it also came out in in the uh agenda with the agenda the work plan, the account the council work plan came out too sure.

L

So I can do that. I I will do that for the next meeting. um I think we fell away from that just because the number of agenda items was getting so thin.

G

Sort of like during covet and postcoded right.

L

This, the mobile home, ordinance or manufactured housing ordinance was really one of the few projects prioritized by council during the pandemic. So.

B

L

I agree I'll I'll try to do better to make sure that the full board sees the full work plan and you can see what's coming up.

B

Thanks jay um juliet.

M

Just to tack on to that, um when you're looking at those future subjects, jay.

A

M

G

M

Have my uh hang on, can you hear me now.

D

Can you hear.

M

Me out, okay, high tech issues, um so my comment is as you're as you're gathering that information.

M

um It would be helpful to know what kinds of feedback or ways in which we could be of use to housing and human services and council in terms of what what kinds of information would be helpful for us to procure for them or weigh in on to make their meetings more productive.

M

So when, when they say, weigh in on this, what do they need us to weigh in on what specifically- and I know in the past, when we've had issues come up, um staff will will present some information, and then they pose questions to the group saying what does hab think about this or that, and so knowing those in advance um also helps frame. The the thinking before we come to the meetings.

B

Thanks julia, I I agree um so we've gone just like create our own agenda item, so I apologize, but I I felt like this needed to be discussed um terry. I know you're like oh, my god, um but this needed to be addressed so jay. Thank you so much for um heeding this. um These comments and um I really appreciate the the work that you're gonna do on this um moving forward and let me make.

D

It charlotte, I think, it's a good idea I would like. I would like to have more more topics to to discuss and more topics to weigh in on. I. I think that would be really good. um I just want to make sure we we don't get hit with five things a month to just spend hours talking about. Should we talk about this? Should we not talk about this? When really nobody even asked us to talk about it? If it becomes a few more topics, I really would.

D

I would like to see more issues coming through our table, just in a way that we're somewhat useful, rather than just us talking amongst ourselves as to whether we should or shouldn't talk about it and does anybody even you know, want our input, that's nice, but I would like to see more topics. You know.

B

If it becomes a problem where we have just too much to discuss, you know we'll, we can evaluate it then, but you know, as she said, or you know, we've been thinning out in terms of topics so yeah, okay, so I'm gonna. Are there other comments? Otherwise, I would like to move on okay, no great, okay! Thank you all that was really that was really great, um so we're just gonna move to the committee and project liaison reports um judy.

B

Thank you for again for taking the time to attend this meeting in your in your current physical state. So would you would you mind just giving some comments on the the um attachment on the joint committee yeah.

E

So the joint committee um is temporarily done meeting and we plan on meeting one more time towards the end of the month. I think- and so this is the report we wrote and it's pretty self-explanatory. We talk a little bit of the background of how it came to be, and then we talk about the things we've done. We've done the tiny homes village pilot report, the safe parking lot report.

E

We decided to not do a report about sanctioned encampments, although we are in support of them. We feel that there's a lot of material out about that and we didn't want to cross over with what other people were doing.

E

We worked a lot on the data and the dashboard and have concerns about that as we stated or ideas that we think might be helpful for changes and we definitely support an oversight committee. We felt that in the research we did the county, we thought the county was going to set up their own oversight committee and that's not exactly what they had in mind.

E

They brought a few people in to discuss a few certain aspects, but there really is a county oversight committee, and so we highly encourage that and then um and then that's all this is being presented at hrc at their next meeting and then and then we we plan on turning in these reports.

E

You know our final reports to council, with with all the attachments, um as well as the initial recommendations, so they can remember what hrc and hab um recommended initially way back in june, and and uh that was that we feel that there's lots of work that can be done, but that the interests of hab and hrc are a little bit different. Just because of what we're supposed to be doing. The human relations committee is more interested in things like terminology such as being service resistant.

E

They don't like that language and feel it's really important to get that changed, because that implies that people are resisting services for homelessness when, when it really is, is they don't qualify um by nature of they don't want to give up their car whatever and and then for us, we're really interested and we're segueing off into studying tiny homes, and all that we should be more interested in the housing aspects of it.

E

So we um there may be overlaps where the two groups might want to work together on something, but we think each group can carry on with the particular areas of most interest to each one.

B

Thanks judy, I just had, oh god, I just had a question and I'm sorry if this is redundant and if you already addressed this, but have there actually been feasibility studies done on what on what you propose like in, like the tiny homes, tiny homes, village pilot and the safe parking pilot like have there been feasibility studies done.

E

Yes well, where it's already being done: the costs are available and even the breakdowns on the cost, but these right now like in longmont, for example, the tiny home village, is of no cost to the city, um the monies being the the uh land owner donated the land and the non-profit is raising the money for all the building so and the safe parking lot is is the same: it's no cost to the city, so both of those are no cost to the city, and there have been there are yes, okay, thanks.

B

um Okay, thanks judy. I I also have one more question with regards to the data and the dashboard. Do you know when there's a count of I don't know if it's yearly or but you know, every two years you mason. I think you know this the answer to this. How many, how often are um unhoused individuals counted? Do you know once a year once a year.

F

How does not include anybody who lives in a vehicle.

B

Right, so that's what I was going to say like who counts as unhoused is it you know, and then there's this invisible population? That's not counted people who are surfing couches living in cars. Like all these, you know people just getting by not living on the street, but you know you know making do, and so I know that in california this is a problem. There's this invisible population, that's always left out um and.

E

So they have something called the point in time uh survey. That's done, I believe mason is done in january. Is that right at the point in time and.

F

It's done by volunteers.

E

And it's, I know it's at least statewide, but I think it's also national. Is that correct.

F

Yeah and don't quote me on this, but I don't know that every county does it jay, do you know, I don't think every county does it.

F

They have to have a certain amount of volunteers that go out and do it and there is based on some information out of california like a percentage pad on what we think are people living on sofas and in vehicles, um and those were all I mean I I don't have it readily available, but I I got really close to adding up all those numbers for what we think boulder county's at when I was backing into boulder county's numbers.

F

I don't have it readily available, but if you're interested I'll dive back into that and bring it back to you.

E

But also anecdotally, it's pretty well understood from people who have lived experience or people who are advocates that the number of the point in time survey is much lower than the actual numbers. um We've talked to people who said they could name at least 50 people themselves who wouldn't participate in the point of time survey. So.

B

Well, thank thanks for that just curious. Oh sorry, mason go ahead. I.

F

Might add that we have the counties probably resident expert on the issue bill sweeney here? He may know some of this information that you're asking about as well.

E

And I want to say one other thing when I wasn't the main person who's working on the the the in that information, the data collection, but the county, it's the city itself couldn't even get some information from the county and the county wasn't even that we had to get permission that had to go through up this chain of command to even get the information we.

H

E

Because there's all these state prohibitions from information going to county for privacy and all this, and that and it's um and it's a mess.

F

Data is extremely difficult right now, even um oh, I'm spacing on her name with the equity plan. Her, and I were talking about it and she's, trying to include um racial data for the equity plan as well and um yeah, even like you guys all saw my dialogue with kurt was that he kept pointing us back to the city. But if you go there and you look at it, it's all based on percentages, so you had to go.

F

It was this very convoluted process and and what's hard to wrap your head around is that we do coordinated intake on all the people that are going through our shelters so to some degree we have all of this data, but it's not getting either utilized or condensed or made available to the individuals who'd be making the decisions on it. It's incredibly frustrating very challenging.

E

Can we see if bill sweeney is here and wants to say anything.

B

I'm totally comfortable with that. I don't know if he wants to but um jake.

F

I think he unmuted himself bill.

K

I don't have any intention of speaking. I don't have anything to offer, but I'm glad to answer questions.

F

B

Thanks thanks so much I'm glad you're here. um No, I appreciate it. I appreciate the um the information mason and and judy are there any any other comments on the final report.

B

No okay, seeing none judy thanks again um and then um we can move to terry and jack. I don't know if you have anything to say any updates or new revelations findings.

B

D

uh Jay uh last meeting there was some discussion about the the similarity or saying the similarity between tiny backyard, tiny homes, fixed foundation, tiny homes and adus, and we we kind of just assumed at the last meeting, that those are the same thing and I wanted to ask you from the city's perspective, whether it's code or just perception or whatever, are those two things: the adu rules that have been adopted and backyard tiny homes.

D

The same thing to to the city to you to the code. Is that correct.

L

That's correct: I mean the distinction you were trying to make was size, so backyard tiny homes being smaller than 400 square feet right.

L

So your typical adu is going to be more than 400 square feet, but the recent change to the building code allows them to be smaller, perfect.

D

Wonderful right answer and- and I think I heard last meeting that uh that there have been 500 adus built since the the the uh regs were implemented. Is that about right.

L

No, I don't have the exact number, but it was. um I think, it's closer to 200 a little bit less than 200 okay, so we basically doubled the number.

D

Got it and then tell me this from when the adu discussion started to when something was adopted, and we could actually go out and do it about? How long did that take.

L

uh The whole update legislative process.

D

L

um It was about 12 to 14 months.

D

From the beginning of adu concept to implementing the rules, oh yeah.

G

F

A lot longer than that yeah when it was originally piloted. What year did it start.

D

That's what I call it.

L

When did we first get adus in boulder.

F

Exactly when did we do the first pilot and then we went back to do a before, so we piloted it in what year and then how long did it take us before we took that pilot and started updating.

L

Got it um I'd have to go, I believe it was. They were started to. They were allowed again in 1980 before they were prohibited. So, yes- and you know, in 40 years we got 200 units.

D

So here's what I'm getting at here's, what here's! Where I'm going with this!

D

It takes a really long time to get things, concepts, new ideas, new types of housing like adus through the process through the everything that needs to happen in order to it for it to be adopted into code, and then people can go out and actually act on it and utilize the code and build things. It takes a long time, years and years and years, typically between all the subcommittee meetings and the the all of it. And it's just a long time.

D

My point- and I think I made this last time, but I want to build on it or reiterate it is we have something here that has been established, it's in the books right, it's there and it's it's possible.

D

I would like to think that we could use our influence as a board to help build on that to help make it easier for more adus to be built. I think there's some restrictions there with density and a lot of waiting lists and whatever else, and not so many in a certain place and all that kind of stuff, I haven't brushed up on all the details of what's of what it is.

D

But I know there are barriers to to adus right now in certain places, but we do have the foundation, no pun intended for adus in place.

D

I would like to take our abilities and help see if we could move that forward, make it easier for adus to be built, and we won't call back that tiny homes or call me to use it'd be easier to call that. I think that's an opportunity that we have as a board to say: look. We have 200 of them now I thought it was 500. I swear it doesn't matter.

D

We have 200 of them now we can have another 100 next year, another hundred next year 100 next year, and by doing that we add hundreds and hundreds and potentially thousands of units to our existing housing stock without having to build any more roads or all the other reasons. Why adus make a lot of sense?

D

That is my two cents on on tiny homes, adus and where I think our focus should be with respect to tiny homes, build upon what we already have build upon the rules and regs that are in place. It's always easier to add and tweak when something already exists than try to create it from scratch that doesn't preclude us, because I know everybody's really excited about tiny homes on wheels that doesn't preclude us from trying to get tiny homes on wheels. Moving.

D

Well, I'm rolling with puns all right, but but I think the focus should be on building on what we have, because I think adus are good and I think they work and I think people who have lived in them like it. I think people who have built them like it like them and- uh and I think it's a good thing- that we can add to and build on and keep these numbers building, because it's a certain type of housing that we don't have a lot of. Obviously, but it's very unique and it's it's.

D

It can serve a lot of people and add a lot of rooftops and bedrooms and bathrooms and kitchens for people in our community that we don't have, and we can do it without having to revolutionize the coat. Now. I'm done.

J

um Charlotte so all kind of piggyback. On top of that- and I have not gotten as far as I'd hoped and terry, I kind of agree- I mean I agree with the the general track that we started talking about at the end of the last meeting, which is there are two things that we're looking at and I've had this interest in the mobile home or the mobile adu, so to speak, or the tiny home on wheels and the other one is.

J

As you said, we already have the code in place, and so the second piece is the one that you're kind of putting forth here and I've. Just so everybody knows. I found some interesting programs around the country that specifically.

J

Work to fund or to support, funding and construction.

J

I see a couple of problems with getting more tiny homes built even with the code that we have in place and one of the ones that I've run up against, and this is anecdotal but with my clients, is that it ends up just being more money and effort that they can engage with. um And what I found is there's some interesting programs which are essentially and whether this is privately funded or somehow supported by the city is something that I think we should look at and discuss and then we'll bring to the board.

J

But these programs essentially work as a share um where people who want to put a tiny home in their backyard uh can basically there's a it's a work share essentially, and so people who want to put tiny homes in their yards. You create neighborhood groups and organizations and say there's five people and they support each other in the construction of their units, with whatever skills and resources they have. It was a really interesting model that was in use in a couple of places.

J

So in my research I found that that was one piece that was interesting because it helped to overcome that hurdle that people have of expense, the other one that's an interesting model and terry. This might be a good one, that you know you might have good insight into and I'll send you some of the information on it. So you can look at.

J

It is private organizations that are essentially funding, adus yep and they help to create the adu, and I mean I don't know where I fall on this exactly yet, but they essentially create the funding for the adu provide the funding. They actually will deliver an adu, and this will require some work with the city on approved, pre-approved plan sets for adus.

J

You can build an adu that looks like this. We have x number of plans, they provide it, they put it on site and what they are doing is they're collecting, essentially um a piece of the income that comes with that off the top and they're funding. This whole process through what they collect from potentially hundreds or thousands of adus that are being created right and they're, basically, financing them, that's right on the front end.

J

So those are a couple of possible ways to do this or to help move the thing that terry's talking about and all may be viable.

D

Totally agree, jacques and I'll add on to that the yes, there are organizations out there that fund the production or the building of adus, and then they basically collect a portion of the rent along with the property owner that exists, and it seems to be working but I'll, say two things on the cost or one thing on the cost and one thing on financing the cost of adus there's so many different options now, there's so many pre-made ones, and we buy them on amazon there.

D

I've dug into it and there's all different shapes and sizes and forms and fashions, and they put a crane on it, there's a lot of options as far as what adus can be built in a backyard above and beyond your typical foundation. Stick construction et cetera, et cetera I'll. Take you a couple ideas more.

D

What if we had affordable housing dollars, go towards helping pay for adus and then the adus are rent restricted right. You can only charge so much rent, so part of the adu pick big round numbers cost a hundred thousand dollars to build an adu in somebody's backyard, a 400 500 square foot, adu.

D

So half of that money comes from the affordable housing fund, the other half comes from the property owner, but for that money you have to limit how much you can rent your adu for for a period of time. I don't know what it is there if there's one thing that I know: money flows to real estate in boulder. If there's, if there's ways to build things and they're profitable, there's money out there that will come to help make it happen.

D

um So there's a billion different ways, there's several different ways to finance it, and we can dig in all the details of this if we wanted to um there's so many different angles to this, but uh I think before I keep going forever because I get into tiny homes and adus and all of it. I think that there's a lot of options as far as getting them built for less money than people think getting them approved the approval parts.

D

The hard part and then financing them, I think, there's a slew of options out there that we could pursue whether it's private people like talking about that build a lot of them and then rent them out and split the money with the property owner, whether it's the property owner who, who can finance that through you know a second loan on their property and the they rent it out? It works.

D

I know mason that doesn't help the person living in the tiny home, but it's it's as far as building equity goes, but it does help them live in boulder and and at least get a get a be almo be on the be on the island. You know so with that said, that's uh a bunch of things. I'd love to dig into if everybody would want to do that.

B

Thank you yeah, I was just gonna say um it seems like there's a lot of energy around adus and how boulder can get more adus, and I know from working with clients um it can right now I have a client, that's been in permitting for like seven months. It's just like it's just crazy, and um do you know how long I know san jose california has pre-approved adu plans.

B

um Do you know of any other cities that do and like how?

B

um How long did that process take from you know initial, like conception of this idea, to actually like finding a partner you know or like finding a form that works shock.

J

You know I I think I think that um I I don't have the names of other towns off the top of my head, but as I was researching that I definitely ran into a number of different jurisdictions where the pre-approved plan was being used. Jay did they do that in portland.

L

G

Doesn't have pre-approved.

L

K

L

um For a pilot in in west denver.

B

L

I know I mean I could go into it, but.

G

J

I do think that um you know this is landing on the other piece of this whole puzzle of getting more adus built, and I think that it's a it's probably close to a 50 50 and it plays into the cost aspect of it, which is the the zoning and.

B

Yeah, so it really seems to be an issue like I don't. um No, we don't have a representative from planning board here, but this really seems like a project that needs to be worked on collaboratively between planning and hab.

D

Zoning really so it's council, but yeah right.

B

I

I just want to say uh I really appreciate this conversation, because I think it's very substantive, uh terry. I absolutely agree that you know the best mechanism is to take an existing regulatory structure and try to work through that structure to uh accommodate something new, and I think that's absolutely a focus that we can try to have here and something we talked about, not just not just um and and contemplating or allowing them, but also streamlining them by pre-approved plans whatever it may be, but that's something that we've talked about it's in our letter.

I

It was in our letter last year. This is exactly the kind of thing that we're talking about, and uh so you really hit home on that, and you know in terms of the the financing too, I mean really, if you look at it, this is just so analogous to um uh you know pifs and tips. You know urban renewal and that whole notion of amortizing the cost over time. So it's there's an incentive for the homeowner there's an incentive for the community there's incentive for the occupant.

I

So I really think this is uh an important part of it. And, frankly I I don't. I don't um not looking at the adu regulations right now at this moment. I don't know that it necessarily even uh excludes the notion of uh tiny homes that are on wheels. That might even be part of that regulatory structure, but I I think um this really taps into something that I'd like to see us uh explore further, because I think there's a ton of promise on this and it's a great way.

I

You know the bottom line is housing stock is, is you know really the paramount here to uh do whatever we can to get housing stocks so that we can have opportunities, especially if it's steed restricted, even if that's temporary, um it's a huge step in the right direction, so I'm very supportive of it.

J

um Jay, uh so I this has been on my list since our last meeting I haven't gotten to it, but I just emailed will birchfield um so just to kind of follow up on that. I will talk to will um just to get sense from him on the issues with pre-approved plan sets from the building department's perspective and what that would look like, um uh and then I guess the the.

H

Other piece is.

J

J

What what can we do to look at maybe creating structures that are or do you guys think that it's worthwhile looking at creating structures that are purely citizen driven for kind of this concept of the of the work share around creating you know and putting those neighborhood organizations together and I'll gather more information and send it out to you on that. um But it was just an interesting one because it was more grassroots in its energy. It was neighborhoods. Basically, you know getting together and creating these structures, and then people just saying I want one.

J

I want one. I want one: okay, how can we get together to help build them? And I don't know if you guys think that that's a worthwhile thing for have to engage with and try to encourage um or not. But it's just another piece that we could look into.

J

Terry you're, muted.

D

That idea the the neighborhood getting together to build build. These is feeling a little habitat for humanity. To me, a little like that- and I kind of like that- that's pretty cool, that's a great idea.

D

I mean I don't know if neighbors are going to get together to do it, but if they did great, um you know, okay,.

B

M

Yeah, I can everyone hear me: okay yeah, so I guess, um if we could, I would be supportive of looking into that if we could show or any of these options. If we, I think we'll what we'll get more traction is.

M

If we can build a case and say hey, if we have pre-approved plans for adus for the city, we can reduce the building time from x number of months to y number of months, and we can reduce the average cost per square foot from z to a and have it be faster and less expensive and build a case for how we could uh increase the housing stock over a period of time and that that would be something that would, in my mind, have legs for council to take uh seri.

M

You know look at seriously in order to get something moving forward from a recommendation standpoint. So.

H

M

Think anything we look at, we need to be able to substantiate with what is the net effect and how is that net effect beneficial compared to the the current existing effect of what we have in place, and I don't know how we do that exactly I'm just proposing that that's how we frame it.

J

um Juliet I totally agree with you and that's some of the. I think I've started to put together a little bit of information from these organizations that have been doing both of these things.

J

um The one that's more commonly uh I think occurring is what terry also has seen, which are these these uh kind of funding mechanisms that are put in place, um but there's, as I said, there's also some groups out there that are doing this kind of work, share, piece and I'll dig into them and see kind of what kind of success they've had or try to start. You know putting numbers together on that, because, obviously, the original presentations that I saw on it suggested that it was being quite successful.

K

uh But what that really means- I don't know numbers wise yet, but yeah. Of course we have to dig into that a little bit.

B

That'd be great shock, I'd be interested to see where they are and and just look at those programs and.

J

B

You know, look at compare, compare like you, know those environments to boulder and how feasible that might be um yeah.

J

And I I just apologize, I had hoped to have: okay.

B

K

J

K

Round but I don't yet so it.

B

K

I keep working on it.

B

D

There's something I touched on earlier, the- and this may be going a little far for this purpose of this discussion. But when you, when you build market rate apartments or housing in boulder, you have an affordable housing requirement.

D

As we all know, one of the options for that is to do them off-site to build your units somewhere else, um and that happens a lot, especially when these big national developers come into town and want to build 200 units, and they don't want anything to do with the 40 or 50 affordable housing units that they they're obligated to build. So, instead of paying the cash in lieu, they give that money to another group, and that group goes out and builds the 50 units and actually a lot of the times.

D

They leverage that money to build more than 50 units, but there's another huge revenue stream there for all sites to maybe figure out a way to work with private property owners in boulder utilize. Some of that money to build adus, because it also provides a different type of housing right.

D

It's not just another apartment complex with 40 units in one building or whatever the case may be so the cash and lieu off site avenue, I think, could be utilized with private property owners to build or help financially to use again with the understanding that they are rent restricted uh for maybe forever. You know, maybe it's forever, but there's a lot of revenue sources out there that uh I think can be tapped into to help people pay for for uh adus in boulder hi.

B

B

Oh you're, muted,.

J

Sorry about that um jay. What are your thoughts or feelings about that kind of initial kind of volley from terry about bringing in funds from you know, housing for adus?

J

If we can get an adu on the ground for a lower cost, for instance than a another door, you know another permanently affordable door. Does that make sense to you or.

L

Yeah, it's well, that's the problem. It's not really not really possible because um there's a state prohibition on rent control, so we wouldn't be able to require the um rents to be restricted.

L

What we've done is and all this is in the adu memo, and it might be better if offline, maybe jack and terry- and I chatted about um you- know what we did back in 2018 the memo identified. You know basically the eight.

L

I think we were up to 12 biggest barriers for adus in boulder and we didn't implement all of them because it was supposed to be this sort of incremental change, so that might be a good place to understand sort of what this, what the barriers are still, um but also the other piece I did want to mention.

L

So we have promised to counsel that we would do an evaluation. Okay, what happened after the adoption of the 2018 regulations? What were the changes that we saw? um What what got produced and what? What are still the issues? And so I think that's gonna really help us to better understand, and I've already heard you know. Process is extremely long um and it's a deterrent. A lot of people aren't getting through the process because it's still fairly cumbersome, even though we simplified it significantly, um and it's just it's really expensive.

L

So I mean cove is going to really um sort of throw a wrench in that analysis, a bit um because a lot of it is a lot of that delay is due to cobit, but anyway I would just suggest. Maybe if we chatted offline, um it might be a little more productive.

L

I

I'd love to uh I love to be part of that conversation too. I mean I've actually even litigated, rent control statute and stuff uh in the past, and so I've dealt with that a lot and so I'd love to be part of that conversation well,.

D

I mean to be to be fair jay. Yes, rent control is illegal, but there's agreements that are entered into right I mean we have permanent, affordable housing all over town, so the rent is controlled. It's just not rent control.

L

Yeah well, we have affordable adus too. So the way exactly portable abuse is through an agreement.

D

Exactly so, maybe we could have more of them.

L

Yeah yeah, it's just it's going to be difficult to sell to use city funds for something that's not um deed, restricted, permanently, affordable.

D

Maybe it could be maybe.

L

That's what we're supposed to that's the challenge anyway,.

K

B

Is great, I'm excited to I'm excited to hear about this conversation, and I I really like where this is going. um I do want to look at the time and see if we can move on shortly, but you know any last few comments, jacques or okay awesome.

B

Well, hopefully, you all will be able to sync up outside the meeting um jay if you're, if you're able that would be so great, so um very cool. um Let's move on to discuss the listening session for next year, crazy we've made it. um I have given some thought to the timing of this, and I'm I'm wondering if either that, if february or march, um would would be a good time for folks. You know if we're looking at the ordinance in january.

B

You know our time will be taken up um and just to give ourselves time with planning. I you know appreciate us doing this and you know the listening session in um february or march. You know just to give us time. um I started to dive into the process of of that. You know a few months ago and was totally overwhelmed, and so um I'm happy to you know, take the lead. You know take the lead on um outreach.

B

Writing the letter to the editor working with the city, to you know, make sure that the listening session is broadcasted on social media, etc. um You know, gets in the papers, but it I need someone else to commit to help me.

B

Danny, are you sure I don't want you to like overextend yourself, no.

I

I I I I'm down we'll.

D

I

We'll do that, I I I you know, we talked about it last time, so I'm I'm with you, so I I think probably march would seem to me to be a good date, for it springtime might be a little warmer. Who knows maybe there's some means of having something. That's outward. I don't know, but I think probably march like let's get through this the winter and- and um you know so to be late march- would be a really good opportunity to you know to put that together.

B

Great, I'm really excited about it and um you know really looking forward to the feedback that we're getting, and I definitely want um folks from effa. um I I can't remember their names, um but I would really like them to be present. um Jay. I'm sorry who are the who are the folks who are at the meeting last.

E

Julie van dammeland, but who she wanted to come was her group of people who are living with the issue who are recipients of services. They've been getting leadership training. She sent me an email fairly recently that she wanted, yes, that she would love to do. She would love to have them.

B

Well, that's great! I if you want to get back to her and and just let her know that um we are going to do this um I'll. I can be in touch with you about that, but that's super great and um danny. I would love to talk to you about planning etc how we can just like divvy up things and you know, take on take on what we can and feel feel good about. So um so I will put forward a motion to have our housing and security listening session in march at our march meeting.

B

I'm not sure what that date is. Second.

E

This no I'm second, oh the.

B

Second was like the second okay, all in favor of moving or having listening session in march. At our march meeting.

B

Okay, thanks judy.

M

Is that does that conflict with not that anyone's going anywhere, but the spring break week for bbsd.

B

M

I don't know, I don't know if it's relevant but anyway.

I

But my son's in middle school he's been on spring break for uh almost a year now.

B

Yeah, it's like I don't know. um Maybe, but uh I mean you know having a meeting during spring break. You know, I don't know, I'm.

M

Okay with it well, if it's a listening session and we want people to participate, we just want to make sure they're, they're focused.

B

They're not going on vacation want to make sure they're not like traveling.

M

Or just stay having a staycation at home with their family and trying to.

B

Try, if you can't come julia, it's okay. I mean like just let us know, but I think we'll be okay for march either way. It looks like we have a majority. I counted um one two, three, four, five, six hands, at least so.

E

I think we can look up can't we, the boulder valley, school district um calendar anyway, and find that out right away.

B

Yeah I mean yeah.

E

I'm not, there will be school.

B

Yeah um anyways, the motion passes, we're gonna have this in march. uh We can look it up, I'm I don't. I don't know when spring break is, but it's hard to hard to think.

M

About vacation it's that week, it's that week, yeah.

I

Yeah it's that week.

B

Okay, well maybe we move our meeting to accommodate you for folks.

M

I'm just thinking about people participating, I want to make sure we get. We maximize the participation in the listening session.

I

So that's one of those months where there's actually a fifth wednesday, so march 31st is the week after spring break it's pushing it back to the spring so that that could be an alternative date, throwing it out there.

E

I guess I'd also like to add that, since this is about housing and security, um the people were expecting to come to this meeting, I believe, are the people who are really worried about housing issues, and is it silly to think that they would be less inclined to be going on vacations if they're worried about being able to remain in their houses.

E

M

Don't know probably not, but they may, they may have more pressures at home if their kids are unoccupied for a week.

G

Without classroom.

M

Instruction, so um I just wanted to throw it out there. I don't have an opinion one way or another, but I I wanted to make sure we just were mindful of that.

E

We certainly have run into that in the past. Well,.

F

With our meetings in the evening, um wouldn't they with the classroom juliet? What were you saying that with classroom instruction, I mean they would be getting at a school in theory, at three o'clock.

M

Not being in school, so much mason is just having a parent having a child at home and having to occupy them the entire day, and maybe you know trying maybe being at their wit's end and not having any any mental energy to attend something in the evening, because they've been trying to corral their their family all day. So I'm just worried about mental mental energy and the ability to participate.

M

B

M

Anticipate kids, not being no the school not being in school.

F

Yeah I hear you on that. I'm just curious um how one day differs from the other. They would have to occupy kids all day and still consider what to do in the evening. Anyway.

M

I don't think we need to debate it. I just wanted to bring it up. I'm.

F

Trying to debate, I thought we were just talking about the issue, but if you feel like it was a debate I mean we could but like it's mutual.

J

I'll throw in my two cents worth, which is, I think, that anytime, we can be aligned with kind of standard scheduling, it's probably a better option for public participation. So.

F

Are you saying that a.

K

F

Parents are teaching at home all day and then being in a meeting. All night is better than on a day when it's during vacation.

J

I personally think that I mean maybe I'm totally wrong on this. Just speaking from my life, I think yes, because there's schedule and there's structure that I'm more aware of like when I look at that to me it's like. Oh, I don't.

K

Know what the heck's going on for me, particularly on that day,.

J

um So, even if it's a school day, I feel like I've got some structure that I understand what's coming at me,.

F

Thank you for debating that with me.

J

You're welcome.

B

K

Knew you wanted me.

B

Did we move them? Okay, so with that said, then, should we move our meeting to the 31st in march? Okay,.

B

Okay motion to move our march meeting from the 24th to the 31st, so.

I

B

All in favor aye.

B

Okay great passes, so we will have our listening session on march. 31St, beautiful and um danny I'll be in touch with you about that, and um if anyone has um particular um groups of people that they they think should come, you know think it over and we have some time to do outreach. um But you know this, you know everyone can participate and and help with the process of planning. This, so just wanted to make sure everyone knows that they're they're invited to help.

D

Two cents, and then I would love, I know we're 50 rental and boulder, and I get all that- and I know a huge percentage of those kids are students. I would love to hear from I mean I'll hear from students too, but to try and get as many non-student renters telling us about their experiences.

D

I think for me that would be very valuable people who have been renting in boulder for a long, long time, less transient people versus students who come in for a few years and then leave that's just my two cents. I don't know how we do that, but I would like to hear personally from a lot from more non-student runners and student writers. If that makes sense.

F

Nathan, terry, do you have a relationship or with or access to um the rental uh association board, um where we could potentially reach out to them and ask them to send out something.

D

Which I don't know which rental I know what you're talking about, but I can't think is it.

B

B

Hra or I know what you're talking about mason.

F

It'd be cool to see if we could build a relationship with them to be able to disseminate um you, know, flyers or to their email list or something.

D

Or even some of the bigger management companies that manage a lot of units around town, even though they may not want to tell her but anyway yeah. I know what you're saying I don't. I don't have a relationship with them, but I think it's probably easy to find them and talk to somebody.

L

I do I can help with that.

A

B

You thanks that's great, okay, perfect anything else before and move on.

B

Okay, great then we'll move to the final annual letter to council. This was sent on sunday, but are there any questions comments or it was sent correct, yeah and the board was copied. So I I hope that I hope you all received it.

F

I didn't, but I just want.

B

F

You for all your hard work on developing this and doing it. I know every year um you know somebody steps to the plate and it typically they get lasted um and- and you know it's a challenging positioning job to be in- and I appreciate you again spearheading it and doing such an excellent job.

B

B

M

Julia, oh thank you and yeah. I second that what mason just said charlotte, thank you so much for stepping in when no one else would step in to this role and taking that on. I know it's a it's a lot of work and it's a lot of opinions to um to juggle and and consider- and I I just want to make a comment about the letter.

M

um After rereading it and shame on me for not um speaking out more on this in the last meeting, but I felt that the the part about what didn't go well for the housing board.

M

In my opinion, just came across as a little confrontational and grievance laid in, and maybe we could be a little more collaborative in our tone uh with council, because we do at the end of the day serve council. We want, uh we want it to be a two-way street and a collaborative and not confrontational relationship. That's just my opinion and- and I want to try to make sure I I voiced that concern earlier in the processes.

M

Obviously it's too late now, but I I didn't have a chance to share that the last time and in rereading everything um that that was my feeling, but thank you charlotte and I do appreciate it does not diminish appreciation for for all the hard work and thought that went into it. So thanks.

E

I also wanted to say charlotte that I think that a lot of people on council already actually read it besides, just rachel who mentioned it at the council meeting, and I thought this- I sort of had a good feeling that they heard it. You know they made a big effort to want us to participate in the discussion about manufactured housing, and I can't help but think the part of that is because they took the letter seriously.

F

Yep that would agree.

D

Again, I agree with everybody else that great job and when I've read it, you know whatever it was two weeks ago or whenever the first time it came out. I kind of got that pumped up feeling. You know like let's, let's go get them kind of deal, um but then I implemented kind of the 24. Well, maybe it's 14-day rule, I don't know, but whatever it's been and and I I there are little pieces in in the what did not work.

D

Well, that I thought again, I agree juliet a little aggressive one in particular for me, is in paragraph two where it talks about. You know we kind of cryptically say happenings at city council meetings illustrate how politically active groups received more attention than have on topics related to housing. It feels like we're trying to say something there in code um that it's kind of underhanded a little bit, and I don't know I don't know- maybe it can be softened up just a little bit, I'm not looking for anybody to rewrite any. You know wholesale changes.

D

Just uh I don't know I felt. Maybe a little softer could help could help. um If they've already read it, then I don't know if that's gonna help at all but yeah. I agree with juliet that maybe a little softer approach is is usually a little better, especially when we're trying to get council's respect. I don't know that I don't know I'm torn on it.

D

I think a little softer approach might not hurt anything and the the cryptic part at least cryptic to me anyway about you, know politically motivated things and not really giving any detail or any examples just kind of theoretically what we think may be happening about policy disagreements. um I don't know to me. I I didn't really even understand that. So that's my two cents.

B

Yeah, so sorry mason I'll just jump in quick. um I think everyone on council will understand what that means. um I didn't want to say: hey. You actually included a slide in your presentation from safer boulder, but not from your housing advisory board. Who discussed this issue right, so I didn't want to just like break bring it out, but I I uh I hate your comments, so I hate it amazing go ahead. Well, I just.

F

I you know, I understand where both juliet and terry are coming from, but I, unless I mean I think we need to be really careful here. It was it's already done and it already went out and um and there's if anybody, especially for those of you who haven't written this letter or really stepped to the plate and um written any motions or written any um of the recommendations that we're sending to council is that.

F

You know, like maybe the next recommendation, one of you guys can step to the plate because it's it's it's a very challenging thing and then especially to hear the criticism after the fact when you just worked on it for what two months um and sent it out to us repeatedly. So I just want to be sensitive and aware of the fact that um that's kind of hard after the fact to say that you, you know that it's a challenging piece um and maybe we could have participated in that process. A little earlier on.

D

Yeah, I understand what you're saying, um but I'm not talking about the whole letter, I'm just talking about like three sentences. It's gone.

B

Yeah next time I mean who knows who will you know, take the lead on writing the letter, but um definitely just like look at the drafts because I did have corey send it out like a lot. Don't.

M

Mean you did and I and I think I said, shame on me for not paying paying closer attention or calling that out sooner and I think I was focused on other parts of the letter um that were grabbing my attention and you know there's um and not on on the whole thing. So I hear what you're saying mason and it's true everyone's gotta gotta participate and speak up. I I missed it and my my bad on the timing.

B

Jack, oh you're, muted,.

J

um You know I I'm happy with how the letter sits. Now I have the same discomforts a little bit. I think that juliet and terry have expressed, but I want to say that, and almost you know a little bit here in an advisory role.

J

I I think that in a way it's it is a good conversation to have with council, um in that it brings up a certain kind of engagement with the relationships between boards and council, and I think council's been hearing a lot about, and I think that's what you know mason's saying is that I think council- and you know, and members of council, have responded to that positively.

J

um So, at the end of the day I kind of said you know, I think it's it's, you know we could argue about how it's worded or not, but I think it's a valuable piece. That's a concern I know of mine from being on the board. So I I don't. I don't see that there's a problem with us expressing it.

F

And I would like to add our last three or two years when we wrote letters were very soft and gentle and played well and we got lamb blasted after both of them publicly by city council. So I think it's interesting that for once, we've kind of stood up for ourselves and made it clear about what wasn't working and being real about it and they're responding. Whereas the last two years, um like I said, we got land blasted.

D

B

Well, it was already sent and um I'm ready to take the heat from council and go ahead and present this unless someone else wants to do it.

J

Like I said, if I can and.

L

K

B

It I have no fear so: okay, great and.

I

We did have that conversation regarding the phone and I think we all had that ambivalence regarding it. But you know we had that conversation in the november meeting. uh You know a lot of other things came in there, but I mean, I think I think charlotte. You know you speak for all of us and you know we can talk about the new ones, but you know we appreciate the the effort and uh um you know the message is out there so we'll see where it goes right, yeah exactly.

B

Exactly great any other comments before we move on okay, great, we'll move on um then thanks. Everyone to new business.

B

I don't have anything for this one jay. Do you recall me having anything to say on this new business? I don't. Oh.

L

It's just a standard agenda item.

B

L

G

L

Business arises: this is the time to talk about it.

B

M

I want to put put something out there and I don't know if this is something that would be on council's agenda um in the next year, but I know that one of the challenges boulder has is a large population of incommuters for work. 60, 000, plus people coming in, and I believe in 2015. There was a study, a housing preference study that was done to study the reasons for why people chose to leave boulder and commute back in and jay. You probably you have way more institutional knowledge about about this stuff than I do.

M

But if I recall from that study, one of the reasons why people um choose to leave is because they want a single-family home or they want more space and they want it at a less price, lower price.

M

And so um I wonder if something that hab could look at in the future, if it dovetails with council's agenda, is a way to make changes or suggest changes to whether it's zoning or or code such that we could integrate more single family style homes and I'm not talking about building more single family homes, but rather taking existing housing stock.

M

That may be a single family home and converting it into a duplex or a triplex in appropriate locations, so that we avoid the issues that people get sensitive on, which is big, blocky buildings and sight lines and and building height restrictions. We make it look compatible with neighborhoods, but we're actually creating more housing. That people want, because the people that move out a certain population of the city that in commute want a different style of home. They want a home that feels like a house that maybe has a backyard and maybe has a garage.

M

Instead of an apartment in a in a large apartment building, so again, I just want to throw that out there as a float out an agenda item that maybe we could look at or weigh in on. If that's something that comes up on on council's docket.

E

I just want to tag on to something that that juliet brought up- that's that might be worth just sort of keeping our antenna out for is changes that may be happening because of covered.

E

I think a lot of people that have worked at home that used to commute and a lot of businesses are now thinking about the possibility of downsizing their sizes of business because they could maybe have somebody come in one or two days a week, instead, five days a week and it's possible that there might be some adjustment that boulder could do to have more housing space available from converted, formerly business space. And it's just something for us.

E

I don't think we need to have it as an agenda item, but we can sort of be aware of how that might play out in the future.

B

I saw mason and jacques.

F

Yeah, I was just gonna almost say what judy was saying, which is, I think housing is going to be turned on an ear in the next year and any institutional knowledge that we may have or jay had, um I think, between evictions um corporate displacement.

F

I think we're going to see a very different market in boulder, um as well as the the knowledge um I remember, and maybe jacques and judy you could you could refresh my memory on this as well. Didn't we have a presentation on all middle-income housing that specifically talked about the timelines, the land use the, how it all broke down and what our blocks are about, bringing it back, um especially around um duplexes triplexes.

F

All of that, you guys remember that presentation in that first year, when we were getting inundated with presentations.

K

Yeah yeah one of many.

J

Yeah I do. I do recall that I think um one of the to go kind of back to juliet's and then also just segue into this changing housing reality.

J

I think one thing that I'd always I I I also say yeah, there's going to be significant changes, but I think, to a large degree for the population, that's needing housing and talking about the affordable piece of it, I'm not sure and I'm just putting it out there, but I'm not sure that I see a significant change, in other words, the patterns for the guys who work on cruise and build my houses and the patterns for people who are cleaning houses or providing services or selling groceries.

J

Those patterns might change slightly, but a lot of those are service related pieces where the the community most affordable housing. I don't know that we'll see so much of a shift, so I just I think it's something to be um cognizant of that. Whatever changes may be coming down, the pike we don't become overly anticipatory around. Those um is one thought and then the other one juliet.

J

I think the thing about the single family homes and the desire- I I'm glad to hear you kind of present that position that the desire in that in commuter study was really not necessarily around the single family house per se, but it was around the accessibility to some yard some green space. It was a little bit more nuanced, although I think it did get kind of politically separated out into into a more black and white issue, and you know I do think we're talking about that right with increasing density potentially along transit.

J

You know transportation corridors. um I don't know where anything stands anymore with the large lots, large homes discussion that at one point was on the table and you know what happens with you know: one acre lots or more that have a single home on them and is there a way you know so I think yeah there's a lot of discussion around that. I agree with you. We need to keep our eye on.

K

That stuff and see what's coming down the pipeline and if any of that stuff gets back on the.

J

Table for council.

E

I also want to point out it's not that we always need to have a big discussion about it ourselves.

E

Sometimes it's just good to have a presentation like I think, the first couple years we got to have fabulous presentations that really helped us, and I think sometimes it's okay to just have um somebody talk about that once things settle a little bit just just to improve our overall knowledge.

L

And I would suggest um sort of in the vein of what you've been talking about the middle income housing strategy. You know it was adopted back in 2017 and that's where we talked about sort of that missing middle.

G

Type of housing, you know we're really good with the single family high-end, we're really good with the higher density four-story.

L

um It's all the stuff in between that we don't get, and it's just really challenging to try to um produce. um You know ownership opportunities that have that space for a yard for a dog and kids to play, because even townhomes are going for. You know 1.2 1.5 million dollars in boulder, so it's not affordable for sure but um anyway, so my point is, it might be, and what judy was saying we could go back and revisit the strategy and say: okay. This is what we talked about back in 2017.

L

You know: have these trains changed? Have they abated slightly or um you know, should we be looking at new opportunities and changes? So that's a potential work item.

B

J

uh Just you know real quick, this kind of does wrap back around to david adamson's pilot program and looking at ways to make more efficient use of land, which is essentially what his pilot program is trying to do. I think from my understanding of it, so.

K

um You know that that's.

J

Just one of the things that I think we've been talking about for quite a long time- um and I know I've been talking to people like david about it, but um you know that's something that they are trying to get counsel to put on their plans. So I guess I'm putting a plug in for that again that as individuals, if we feel like that's something valuable, we could. We could put a little leverage to say to council hey how about. We take a look at pilots.

J

We may not know exactly what's going to work, but we got to start somewhere and uh you know we can't wait for every other city in the country to give us the data we need.

G

A

K

B

You're, muted, sorry, you're, muted,.

F

I made a meme about that before this meeting too. um This brings up a really interesting point as an aside to what juliet's bringing up- and I noticed it with our tiny home discussion as well- is especially when we have new members on and some of this historical stuff that we've gone through and like judy just mentioned about.

F

Maybe revisiting is like right now, planning board is going through their land use codes and people are looking at their master plans, but housing doesn't, ha like our housing board, doesn't have a master plan on this and it'd be interesting, like um jay just said about looking at the middle income strategy again, because we've changed so much since 2017.

F

Maybe something in 2021 that we might want to do is go back and look at the things that we looked at in that first year and what do we want to revisit and potentially start tweaking some of that stuff, and um especially again so so much has changed. Maybe that's a new business item where we start to look at and it will also bring new board members up to speed.

B

Terry did you or um yeah.

D

I mean a quick I'll try to make a quick comment. We could talk for hours about how how uh the pandemic has impacted housing, but I think the the unfortunate reality is in boulder.

D

It's made the middle income world even less, and even more difficult people have been moving to colorado. The front range in boulder from new york, new jersey, chicago in california for decades and decades, and this pandemic has accelerated that so much it's unbelievable. The remote work ability uh for people from big cities and their lack of desire to be in big cities right now, for obvious reasons, has driven so many people to boulder to rent and buy really expensive homes.

D

I mean record-setting numbers in the last six months, people are paying for rent for single-family homes and buying single-family homes at astronomical prices, even when we thought they were astronomical. 5 10 20 years ago, it's even more now and that's just driven the middle portion even farther out of the picture, which is not good. It's not good, but that's the reality of our world and to piggyback on what juliet said.

D

People now who are working from home because of the pandemic- and maybe they won't go back to their offices full time. I think most people will, but there will definitely be less. They actually want more space right. They want home offices, they want extra space, and so it's driving the demand for for bigger houses uh versus smaller houses before the pandemic. It's just it's amazing how this has changed things in six months, eight months, it's unbelievable to me, but that's a whole different discussion for a different day.

B

Yeah, I it's true, it's true. um Half of the work I do now is not adus, but it's like studios and home offices.

B

People will spend a lot of money on a home office.

B

um uh Jacques, did you have a um another comment.

J

You know I was just kind of nodding, my head in agreement and- and you know I I always kind of bristle a little bit- that's, maybe not quite the right term. um You know the the idealist in me bristles a little bit about the realist, sometimes and that's how the world is. um You know, and I just want to put out there- that we also are sitting on a board where we can start to make suggestions to how we can create the world.

K

To be somewhat different- and you know again it's going back to the thing of like.

J

You know it, it does become a little bit more of an activist position, maybe as a board, but we can put things out on the plate. At least there are things that we can do to impact that um everything from pilot projects to allowing lots to be divided and all these things. So I think we have ways to access change.

J

We and we should take it upon ourselves to start to look at it in that way and say: how are we going to access the change here? That has to happen because, as terry said, all the pressure points right now are pushing in the wrong direction.

G

D

Jacques, I totally agree with you you're exactly right, but what's happened is the whole.

D

The whole spectrum has moved up right so before before one ever picked before it was a million dollar home that you tore down and built two seven hundred thousand dollar town homes right, okay, so at least seven hundred thousand dollars is still crazy, but it's less than a million dollars right and there's two families living on that property versus one. Now that million dollar home is a 2.5 million dollar tear down and it's being replaced with one and a half million dollar town. I mean it's just no.

J

It's crazy trust me. I'm.

D

You know it's just it. Yes, it's still cheaper than the, but it's just I don't know again it's a different discussion for a different day, but it.

K

D

It's unbelievable what six months can do in a pandemic in boulder colorado and housing.

B

Juliet want to make sure that we kind of circle back to your your comments, and you know if you had any anything you wanted to bring forward for next meeting, or you know just you know in terms of things that you wanted to tackle, or that you want the board to address as a whole.

B

Oops you're can't hear you.

M

Okay, I just I just wanted to float that out as an idea um and ask you know- and jay mentioned the the middle income housing strategy, but to the points of uh of terry and jack. The pandemic has changed, and I can't tell you how many new people uh I encounter that just moved here from major coastal markets, with enormous equity in homes in those markets that they they're able to come here and and and for them buying buying things that exist here is really not nearly as expensive, as maybe where they came from.

M

I don't know how any community stops something like that uh from happening. It's just kind of the market dynamics of, I guess a capitalistic society that and a and one that has a lot of uh homeowner.

M

You know ownership, land, um land incentives or home ownership incentives, so just it is what it is, but I just wanted to throw it out there as an idea for the future and see what people thought about it about looking at that ways to bring people into the city that have chosen to move out, because they want more of that little bit of yard.

M

A little bit of a place to put put a vehicle or store bicycles or whatever it may be into terry's point about people wanting more than ever to have more space because they're all working from home doing school from home. um You know how do we do that, so that's it I'll! Stop rambling.

E

I wanted to add just one thing: if I could charlotte and that's um maybe the next time you guys have an agenda meeting, you could talk about maybe just putting uh a revisiting of middle-income housing um presentation and then we just have a little discussion, but I also want to thank juliette for for using this new business time on the agenda, to spark, but to me has been one of the best discussions we've ever had because we often by nature of what we have to do um focus on on a a specific issue- and this was more of a big picture- look and I think, that's very helpful for us.

E

That's awesome thanks julia for starting it.

B

B

Are there any other comments.

B

Regarding this, definitely we can we'll revisit this at the next meeting. There'll be a placeholder for this.

B

Continuation- okay, great: we can move to matters from staff um jay. Would you like to take the mic.

L

Here I got a couple things for you. So um last night city council approved a land use change for an acre in gun barrel that older housing partners has under contract to purchase. um So that's exciting. So um that's a future.

L

We're gonna land bank, it for probably a number of years, but um potentially 25 to 35 units um in a great location um and not displacing any existing industrial businesses, um which was a big part of the conversation uh and the um oh, the city.

L

The other big thing that I've been working on is um purchasing a leasehold, so the city owns 20 acres in the planning reserve um and basically we we bought out the current leaseholder uh and are in the process of doing that. So, where atlas flooring, is you guys familiar with that?

L

So all that land is actually behind? It is owned by the city and once the planning reserve actually does get developed um in the distant future, um that would be dedicated to affordable housing. So two opportunities there for land, banking um and then the last piece is um so the implementation of the newer ballot measure.

L

So um there will be- and I sent an email to everybody. But charlotte asked me to give just a quick update for everyone and we're still really trying to figure out exactly how to um weave that into our existing programs.

L

So you know, basically, you heard a lot about how the housing helpline directs people to services and we have mediation services available. We also provide rental assistance through effa and there's even legal services that are currently offered, but you have to qualify based on income.

L

So the newer basically says it's going to tax rentals 75 each per year in the beginning, and that money is supposed to go towards providing legal representation to everybody, not just low income and also to help supplements uh the funds for rental assistance.

L

So um the big challenge that the city's sort of trying to figure out is how do we collect this fund or the money? um It's a fairly low tax and it's going to cost a lot to collect it, um and we don't what we would seem like a very simple thing to do.

L

We may have to create a whole new system to do it to collect that 75 dollars a year. um So that's it's going to take a little bit of extra time to figure that out, um but we are also pursuing sort of how do we provide that legal representation right away? um So in january, when um the ballot measures really is supposed to be in effect, uh which is was adopted through ordinance, long story, but anyway um we are.

L

Our city. Attorney's office is look as getting responses to from different legal organizations to provide that service sort of an on-call so that there would be someone there to provide that legal service at uh eviction court and to provide those services um up front.

L

um We are also um developing are in the process of hiring someone to provide coordination because part of the ballot measure called for um hiring a city staff person to implement this, and also there will be a um a committee. So the ballot measure calls out that there's supposed to be a committee that would help advice on the program, but also on how to um direct those, the rental assistance uh from the funds that are collected, so that part probably won't happen until later in the year.

L

um I think the idea is we want to try to get it up and running figure out how it meshes with our current programs and services get the person hired staff person hired and then start the sort of recruitment process to create this new committee.

L

So maybe that was too much information, but hopefully that was helpful.

B

F

uh Jay, given how, with the land baking um given how long our um process is for housing, should we start that in the next meeting? If we want something in 10 15 years, just curious, because I'm pretty sure we're going to have at least three years of prairie dog discussion, and maybe it makes sense early.

L

Rhetorical right.

B

Totally we're all waiting for you to reply.

E

Can you update us on the eviction moratorium like what's what's the state and is the city going to intercede and extend it? If that you know I mean where is all that.

L

That is a great question. um You know I'm actually in oregon right now and um oregon has had an eviction moratorium at the statewide level since uh I think april, um and they still haven't renewed theirs theirs gonna will expire as well. um Polis has taken the approach, I think we talked about this last time. He only does executive orders that are effective 30 days, and then he just renews them every month.

L

So I would expect there would be a renewal fairly soon if there's going to be a renewal, but just also as a reminder, so the city has absolutely no authority to um stop evictions, um but we do like we've talked about before the city does invest a lot of time and resources to make sure that people get the resources that they need early in the process to try to avoid even getting to the eviction process.

L

E

Help, yes, thank you.

B

Thanks for those updates, jay are there any other questions.

B

I'm interested to hear more about the implementation of the. What are you calling it? Keeping families housed.

L

Well, I don't know if we have gun on that one.

B

L

But I think um the the the basic idea is that it's um it's not just no eviction without representation. That is also the rental assistance piece. So how? How do we describe the program with its with the current scope? That's all um so! I'm sorry so did I mention the study session in january.

L

No no yeah see I was supposed to leave with that. So council is going to get an update um at their study session. The second study session in january- sorry, I forget the date but I'll, send you an email reminder letting you know when that is close to the date, but um it's a 30-minute update, sort of where we are um in the process and there might be a few questions for them.

L

What might be what to name it.

B

F

Jay, can you make sure that we all receive a link to um the city council retreat in january? I know that that's going to be a zoom process, correct.

L

Yes, um yeah, I think I can put a note in my calendar.

F

Awesome, I just want to make sure that for those of us who do want to pay attention, it's.

E

B

Great, come: listen to me answer questions great anything else.

B

Well, we've reached the end of the meeting unless there's any other things that y'all want to say.

E

On the calendar check the debriefing calendar check. Can we put down that at the january meeting we go over the calendar for the whole year.

B

That's all thanks. Yeah can I make sure we add that to the agenda for sure great well, I look forward to seeing you all in january.

B

What's the date of our next meeting? Sorry, oh, we moved it.

I

B

13. beautiful well, I look forward to seeing you all then and um motion to adjourn this meeting.

B

Second, all right, all in favor.

B

All right thanks: everyone have a happy, happy holidays.

A

Happy holidays.

D

A

B

You jay thank you. Corey appreciated, always.

A

You're welcome gary welcome.

B

G

A

New year too, bye bye, everyone.