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City of Boulder, CO / Housing Advisory Board / 28 Jul 2021
City of Boulder, CO / Housing Advisory Board / 28 Jul 2021
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From YouTube: 7-28-21 Boulder Housing Advisory Board

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7-28-21 Boulder Housing Advisory Board

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Hab-Michael leccese: meeting the boulder housing advisory board.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, let's see who was president danny.

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Hab-Michael leccese: president.,.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: president president pipe.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, you go there,, we go. hab-michael leccese:, so julia boom.

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Hab-Juliette boone: hello.

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Hab-Michael leccese: jack. hab-jacques, juilland:, hello, I'm here., hab-michael, leccese:, to., hab-michael, leccese:, terry polos.,.

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Hab-Michael leccese: jerry is not here yet,, but I believe we have for you today. I forget to call anybody who is here.

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Hab-Michael leccese: okay.

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hab-michael leccese: quick review, welcome everybody happy summer's day, goal.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, I quick review of the agenda,. I believe we have a quorum and we'll be able to prove our minutes, review minutes first and then 26 then we'll have some public participation,. Oh open, comment.,.

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Hab-Michael leccese: matters from the board we're going to have a couple of, I think, will be very interesting: presentations, ones, learning nj on affordable housing, pending finance and then in swallow has joined us from boulder housing. Partners.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, then we'll get into our retreat and a debrief and attempt to prioritize work plan is based on the survey results.

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Hab-Michael leccese: didn't get a lot of survey results,, but I got some very interesting comments on that will go to item, see a committee and project liaison reports,. We do have those president may be terrible joining us by then to report out on 20 homes and era.

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Hab-Michael leccese: madison, the staff.

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hab-michael leccese: number, seven d, repeating calendar check and then we'll adjourn to 9pm.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, so I think it's appropriate for me to ask for a motion to approve our minister of may 26 2021.

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Hab-Juliette boone: second.

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Hab-Michael leccese: okay,, all in favor, raise your hand any way you want to.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, I believe, that's been approved, thank you.

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Hab-Michael leccese: public to station,. We have any members of the public who would like to speak.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: to.

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Hab-Michael leccese: hearing new sound when a person.

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Hab-Michael leccese: take our participant most.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, I don't see any.

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hab-michael leccese: members of the public listed on the participants.

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Hab-Michael leccese: does that look right to you, corey.

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Cob-Corina marin:, that is correct.

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Hab-Michael leccese: I believe,, then we can move on to our next agenda. Item.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, it will start with this overview from jason and swallow to take it. Away.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: here we go everybody,, so this is a presentation that ian.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: embalm and I gave to the planning board.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: a couple months ago, and I thought it might be extremely helpful- some of its going to be kind of basic for some of you, but..

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, maybe not, but it might be a good refresher,. But I think the piece from ian will be really interesting and just in terms of the inner workings of how affordable housing.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: gets funded and give you some in depth, greater knowledge of how that works. So I'm going to start with some highlights and successes.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: in terms of the city's policies.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: specifically,, with the city's role and then,, as I mentioned ian, is going to talk more about the.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, I think everybody is familiar with what the problem is and why it's a problem,, so the bottom blue line is basically area median income.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: hasn't changed a whole lot in the past 20 to 30 years,, whereas housing prices have been climbing steadily and particular since 2010. So the middle of red line is a attached.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and the really shocking number is the detached homes,. So this is sales price data that comes from barra and we track this. Every year,, as well as the household income and you'll, see this graph also in the cds community profile that we publish on an annual basis as well.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so the rental situation is very similar.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: data is not as reliable,, but it gives you a sense that rents are increasing,, although rental renting in boulder is still.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: significantly more affordable than purchasing home,, as we all know,. It's really when people make that are trying to make that transition from rental renting to owning that a lot of people are challenged.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: so.

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cob-jay, sugnet: also,. I thought it was important to talk about some definitions,. So when I talk about affordable housing, it's different than what sort of the industry standards,, so the industry standard for affordable housing means you pay no more than 30% of your income. Housing.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so what.

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cob-jay sugnet: in the city of boulder permanently affordable housing is really what we're talking about. When we talk about affordable, housing.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, and that means it's deemed restricted to ensure permanent and affordability in perpetuity, so there's a deed restriction on the property,, and that applies to both rental and ownership. Units.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: area meeting income,, so I think you all know, this half of the people make more happen. People make less in 2021. It was just over 103,000.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, there are also lots of different sort of definitions of income levels out there,. I won't go into all the subcategories, the city for simplicity, purposes,. We talked about low, moderate and middle income and that's really what our 15% goal is not low. Zero to 60.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: moderate 60 to 80 and,, as you can see middle and.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: keep it the nice thing about. The am I recently, is that you can just that 30% amia is roughly a household of three earning 30,000, so it's kind of easy to remember it that way.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and also,, if you guys have questions, I'm jump right in because I can't see you all on my screen. Just just please feel free to interrupt me.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, hey jay, jesse, another presentation, I think, is in again and if everybody can like see the.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: notes about my notes: yeah.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: funky- I don't know if it's full screen out up everybody can see that.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: your. What am I doing? Now.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, thank you. Go to display settings jay.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, I gotta try again.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: come on technology.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: resume slideshow what.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: well.

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Cob-Corina marin:. What, if you press f5, you have an f5.

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Cob-Corina marin: he on your dinner.

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Cob-Corina marin: at five is the shortcut key for a workstation no.

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Cob-Corina marin: no,, I guess,, I didn't know.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: more time it did work, but it showed somewhere else.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: how's that.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: all right.

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cob-jay sugnet:, so I think, as you all know, we've been making pretty significant progress towards achieving our goal.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: last year we had 277 units,, which was really bit,, which was the second best year on record.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so we've been doing quite well.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and, in addition, to.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: that it's not advancing for some reason.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: there we go, you see that.

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Cob-Corina marin: yes.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: I've done this before, to believe it or not, flawlessly.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: okay, so,, in addition to the.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: 277 units this year, we've had we have.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, just over almost 1000 units in the pipeline that we hope to be building over the next to say one to seven years..

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and another big piece, that's kind of- has evolved in the past several years. Is that a push for permanent supportive housing,? So you recall a permanent supportive.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: is for people transitioning from being on housed, provides more wraparound services like mental health services, addiction services, so there's been a big push that all of our new affordable projects provide at least to.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: a certain percentage of units as permanent permanent supportive.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, it's working., cob-jay sugnet:, so there we we accomplish. We've been accomplishing this goal, through a combination of regulations policy, as well as investment.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so those regulations that everyone's familiar with,, including our housing, that 25% requirement that all new housing has to be permanently affordable.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:. We also have croatia linkage fees on new commercial development,, so we have last I checked,. We still have the second highest commercial linkage fees and the country, I think other california, communities are catching up. Quickly.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, but that's you'll, see that's providing a significant source and annexation so annexation. Our primary community benefit, as you recall,, is that typically anywhere from 40 to 60% of any new development has has to provide 40 to 60% of those units have to be permanently affordable..

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, we have another number of strategies and policy in place, we'll talk about the middle income strategy and next month.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, we just you just reviewed them manufactured housing strategy builds upon the state. Provisions and preservation is also been a big push in the past, say, five to seven years.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: the ideas, and instead of focusing most of our efforts on building new in areas of city that can that are growing. This really helps us to purchase existing.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: houses, housing stock and convert it into perfectly affordable in perpetuity. So that's been a big shift in our policy and that investment that we're going to talk more about really allows us to use those local funds and federal funds and leveraging.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:- and we can do all this without all of our partners- to boulder housing partners as a course or primary partner,, very important.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, but we also have other nonprofits. We have even privates developers providing not affordable, housing and keep in mind. The city does not own or operate affordable housing. We rely solely on our partners.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, don't ask me about ponderosa with that statement.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: so funding sources.

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cob-jay sugnet:. As I mentioned, those commercial linkage, fees 11%. So that's been growing over the past couple years. Federal funds have been shrinking, so the linkage views have kind of been filling that gap.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: property taxes about quarter of our funding comes from local property tax, but caching little is still the bulk source of.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: funding for affordable.

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cob-jay sugnet: and you can see, you can see, over the last six years,. Just over $66 million has been collected.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and that cash in lieu in the commercial linkage fees this just gives you a sense of how variable they are a year to year.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: you know, some years are really big. Some years are fairly small.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, it really has to do with market, has to do with timing of projects.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, and it almost seems like there is no real rhyme or reason but.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: just wanted to highlight that for you, but,, as you can see, linkage fees are becoming more important in terms of our funding. Source.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and how we use. That is that we combine a lot of different sources that come in.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and we're able to leverage those to basically.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: for every dollar that we spend in local money. We can leverage two to $3 about.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: state or the federal- and you know we'll talk about that. The low income, housing tax credits and those funds are very competitively distributed to our our affordable housing. Providers.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, we sometimes hear from people that we have all this money just sitting around not going towards affordable housing,. But I guarantee you that these the funding requests that we get exceeds available funds on an annual basis.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and I would say, one of the great things about funding- is that it allows us to provide deeper affordability right,. So if we were say to get rental projects on site.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and the developers would provide all of those units at basically 60% nami,, which is the basic requirement.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so when bhp approaches the project,, they will always look at well. How do we get 50% units, 40% units, 30 and I'm down, because there's definitely a need for those lower incomes as well.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so that's been a. cob-jay sugnet:, one of the great things that happens with it because towards new construction. So as I mentioned,, we have the housing authority, other nonprofits private developers.,.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: the preservation we've been talking about so some examples, tantra than so. If you're familiar with those.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and then programs, but also it,. You know it's not enough just to get somebody in an affordable home there's. There is a lot that goes into educating future owners of the program.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: helping with people to maintain those homes, over time,, particularly if they're, very low income of fixed income and sometimes homeowners, get in trouble..

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and we have to bail them out from foreclosure. It's still beneficial to the city,. Even if we have to invest a little bit of additional money to keep that in the program.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: so,, like I said, feel free to interrupt me if you have any questions and then land banking. So it's great recent examples, hello, parkway.,.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: 30 pearl was land bank for quite some time. We just recently purchased lease option for 20 acres and planning reserve.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: bhp just recently purchased 6500 odell up in gun barrel, so you're going to hear more about land banking from ian, probably just because they have so many projects in the pipeline.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, they just don't have the staff capacity to actually fulfill them. All, at this time,, which is a really great problem to have.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so those regulations and the policies and investments have had some really tangible outcomes. So.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:: this is an interesting analysis,. We did so out of every hundred new units that get created in boulder, so focus on the inner circle at 1% at one of those are market rate and 19 or permanently affordable. So some of those are provided on site,, but the vast majority of those are provided.

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Through funding.

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cob-jay sugnet: and in addition to those 19 every year, we're getting about 17 through preservation and again, this is on average over five year. Period.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, but it just shows that the policies and regulations in investment combined are making significant progress.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and another benefit of the funding, as well as you can see the the units that we have are fairly well distributed throughout the city.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and if we were to rely solely on getting development or affordable units through new development, that map would look very differently. So it's that preservation, piece itself allows us to land bank and that's going to allow us to spread out those units.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: across a broader spectrum of the city.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and then on the website, there's a if I'm sure, we've all like bike by walked by driven by projects in boulder. We have no idea where we're actually permanently affordable,, so we have on our website a similar list like this, and it shows you.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: samples of projects throughout older pictures,, how many units at what am I do? You really want to dig into the details,, but the whole idea is that these funding sources help provide a very diverse set of housing in the city.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and then, before I turn it over to ian,. I just wanted to this is analysis,. We did.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: well,, it was like three or four years: ago,. Definitely pre pandemic, comparing some market rate projects with affordable projects,. So the affordable projects are in green, the top the market rate or purple.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, you can see the portal projects are typically smaller and number michael. You have question.

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Hab-Michael leccese: yes,, I do,, but once you finish this panel and it'll ask you.

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Here.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so you can see the affordable projects are typically smaller. Than.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: the market rates they,, but what we wanted to show were sort of the number of public meetings.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: that the changes that are made through the development review process and all the community benefit that's provided.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:- and you know this was kind of in response to some concerns- we're hearing from the community that affordable projects we're getting special treatment from the city and as ian can attest,, you know we put it.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, affordable projects through the wringer just like market rate development and even more so,. I think we we almost hold them to a higher standard in some respects,, so I just wanted to share some of this and before we turn it over to ian, we start with michael's question.

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Hab-Michael leccese: thank you. Jay I've been hearing about all the new money for housing. That's going to be coming in, as a result of various relief act as a species started to assess.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, what piece of the pie, that we might get and how that might be applied.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: yes,. I do know that those conversations have started,. I do not know where they've landed and I'm pretty sure they have not landed.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: but affordable housing,. I would say it's definitely in the mix.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, what percentage of that I really couldn't speculate, but between now I'm. I will definitely share that. Information.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, because you know I've been hearing,, and this is a little anecdotal. I apologize, that the funding available in the next- I guess fiscal year is going to be like 10 times.

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Hab-Michael leccese: what's out there for this year and that you know,, maybe a one time infusion, but that could really create a significant amount of new housing. Communities.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, that's very exciting.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: any other questions any other reactions, I mean it was this interesting, useful, helpful.

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Hab-Michael leccese: yes,. I would love to get a copy of it. Okay, yeah.

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Hab-Juliette boone: question j.

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Hab-Juliette boone: good. um I was curious on the linkage fees did the did the geography expand for that.

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Hab-Juliette boone: the boundary that the city impose where business new businesses would have would be asked to pay a commercial linkage fee at some at some point.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, it's it's city wide or are you.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: anyway, are you thinking of the community benefit.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, allowing you know development to have that additional height or intensity.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, maybe that's it. hab-juliette boone:. I just thought there was like a bit. There was like a boundary.

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Hab-Juliette boone: linkage feed boundary within the city, limits.

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Hab-Juliette boone: 20th street and west,, or something like that,, but it's all over the city.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: all new commercial development,, and it was phased in over three years and 20..

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Cob-Jay sugnet: this year last year, with it's fully phase two.

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Hab-Juliette boone: okay,, so I guess what we're seeing so so there's more! There was more of the commercial linkage as a as a part of the distribution in the later years because because it had been, it was fully phased in, by them.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: exactly okay, so it'll be interesting to see that graph and say two or three years to see if that becomes our dominant funding, source.

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Hab-Juliette boone: yeah be interesting, but.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, I was surprised I was expecting it to be less cash and leo and more linkage fee but.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, it's kind of held steady.

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Hab-Michael leccese: mary j need a quick question,. Do you have any analysis of how low income tax tax credits have been leveraged in boulder to help create some of this housing and related to that other tax structures, like opportunity zones anything happening.

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Hab-Michael leccese: in that department.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, I mean even can talk more about how they utilize low income tax credits,. I mean they do it for pretty much all of their projects.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: operative opportunity, zones,, you know it's interesting. I you know. I haven't heard discussion about that in quite some time.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, I would have to get back to you on that.

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Hab-Michael leccese: yeah, I haven't heard of any affordable housing being developed israel, but maybe someone else at.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: the end now.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: yeah- I mean I can speak with it a little. I have not on obviously as a little feedback there.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: isn't a nonprofit kind of developer,. We don't. We don't really benefit from opportunity. Zones.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, and what we've seen is that the investors who are investing in a low income, housing tax credit are not really interested in the opportunity zone. It's not really an incentive for them. It's kind of a different.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: tax benefit than than what they would find. Useful.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: on the market rate side. I know there's been some rumblings, but I honestly have not heard of any projects that are specifically developing as a result of that opportunity. Opportunity zone.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: legislation,, at least in boulder, specifically other other places,. I think there has been a little more action in those areas,, but I have not heard it specifically in boulder so.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, I would agree with that.

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Gay.

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Hab-Jacques juilland:, quick, just a question from you,. I just wanted to understand, well,. I have two questions,, maybe the first one is around between the cash in lieu versus the.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: just lost the name of the other option for the funding.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: the linkage. hab-jacques juilland:. uh huh It came back to me, yeah. cob-jay, sugnet:, so., hab-jacques juilland:, the capsule, just like it to be,. We saw on the. cob-jay sugnet: graph of it. hab-jacques juilland:. It's it's great increase. Do you I mean, I know that's a balance between how much.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: property is developed from which we can collect linkage fee,, as well as the increase,, probably in the linkage fees.

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Hab-Jacques juilland:: do you have a sense,, because that was quite a jump. It seemed like it was more than just the increasing percentage, and I know, like you, said, they're hard to peg anything to any sense of how much of that is based on the increase in the fee versus just more development that pays the fee.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: now I mean that's just comparing only one or two years worth of data.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: to see a trend,, I guess,, I think, it'll be really interesting to three years to go back and look at it.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, but I would say it's a combination. Combination at that there's been quite a bit of commercial development..

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and defeated fully implemented,. We and you know we thought that a lot of people will be jumping ahead,. You know, trying to get in under the lower fees, and I think that did happen, a little bit,, but we're still have people coming in with a fully implemented fees. So.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: that didn't seem to be a deterrent particular.

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Hab-Jacques juilland:, I mean we'll know with more more years under our belt, like you said the other question just so, I understand it. Correctly, is the.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: the graphic that you showed with market rate new and then.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: permanently affordable units and you have the there were 19 permanently affordable, and then you had the 17 that were preservation,. So when we look at that, are we really looking at like,? If I understand that correctly, 36 units.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: out of well,, this would be out of every hundred and 17 units.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: have been we're getting 36 to 81 is kind of the balance that we're getting is that.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: yeah, with that how I understand. cob-jay sugnet: that have to be a little careful with this graph, so that hundred units is all new.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so that's why it's an outside circle,! So we are getting 19 affordable! You out of those new 100 new.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: but we're. cob-jay sugnet: of the existing buck, we're we're transitioning those from market right, affordable.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: right, so that's yeah! Okay, that that answers. My question: that's I just want to make sure I understand correctly. Okay.

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Thanks.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: for we get day,, so I just so first things that functionally it's essentially like 3664 when you put in the preservation that comes after the fact, with the existing units, right.

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Hab-Danny teodoru:, so that's why that's on that outside circle,, but it has the effect of bringing that 81 down to 64 is the way I looked at that right.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: well, during that that's.

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hab-danny, teodoru: okay,, all right.

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cob-jay sugnet: applies it's all new.

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Hab-Danny teodoru:, I think I think this is great,. I really appreciate, I think, would be really great if we had some sort of just regular updates on some of these things once in a while, not necessarily just for the members of the board but whom whoever may be attending and.

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Hab-Danny teodoru:: this is really I liked how this is very direct and concise, and- and you know this is,, I am sure it is made available to the public,. But if there's some way for more people, it just seems to me a lot of people. Don't understand. What's going on,, I think it's pretty comprehensive is very commendable..

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Hab-Danny teodoru:, especially compared to other communities,. You know nothing's perfect, and this is a daunting challenge for everybody. That's just growing more and more, but.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: having something like this,, so the public understands. What's going on the steps that are taken and how they can you know better support it, I think, would be.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: a wonderful step,, because I think it is you know, distills down to some very specific information, slides or powerpoints, whatever it is, and yeah. That was great, so I appreciate it,. I will have a copy to know.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, it will get posted on the website, like all our presentations. Anyone else, before we move on to the main attraction.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: all right, go ahead: you're. ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, perfect thanks jay! Do you want me to share my screen, or do you want to run slides here.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, you can also request control,. I think.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: all right,. Let me see if I can.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: or just tell me when you want to advance.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: I'll, try, this,. Let me see you guys,. Let me know in this next presentation mode, here.,.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, you had no problem with that. I did.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. This looks good. ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: great. Well thanks. Everyone thanks everyone.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: jay, you want to meet yourself. I think I'm getting feedback from you.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, perfect line., ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:. You can swallow with boulder housing partners thanks for having us, of course,. I'm going to just give a little presentation today on on kind of who hp hp is what our role is in the city and kind of the main tools we have for developing, affordable housing in boulder.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: so,. Usually we like to start these presentations off just with a little bit of info on php,. So we are the housing authority for the city of boulder, so be bolder. Housing partners is just a dpa doing business as.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, we are independent from the city. So that's a question. We get a lot. We get our authority from state statute,. We have a nine member board that is appointed by city council, but operates fully independently of city council,. We have our own executive, director and and kind of full staff so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:- that is just a little bit about kind of who bhp is and how we're set up.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, looking at kind of who we serve,, and what that demographic looks like in the city of boulder. You can see,, we serve about 1800 households. Currently, I think this. This data is from last april,, so so fairly current.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: and then you can see just you know some of the highlights. Certainly our highest.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: highest kind of folks. We serve our households with children, and then a significant number of both seniors and people living with disabilities.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: and then you know,, looking at the bottom of this graphic you'll, see that we're we're really.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: serving kind of those most in need and kind of some of our most vulnerable.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: citizen, so median income for those 1800 households is just under $16,000 a year,. So you know you're looking at less than 1500 dollars a month in income.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and that you know equates to about you know 74% of who we're serving is at 30%. Am I or less so we we certainly strive to meet those most in need,. I think you can really see that in these numbers here in terms of who we're currently serving.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: transitioning a bit, so some of the pieces wanted to get into today,. These are just touching on kind of all the ways php is involved in affordable housing in the city, so.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, obviously,, new construction, so so going out and building new, affordable housing, we're currently just wrapping up or 30 pearl project right, a 30th and pearl. So that's a great example.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: acquisition, we're always looking to purchase existing housing stock,. I think you know you heard jay touch on that piece of bit,, but that's an important part of what we do. Both you know, preserve.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, some of that naturally occurring affordable, housing and city and then also acquire some. You know, communities that we think are good fit for what we're seeing where we're seeing the need.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: land banking jay also mentioned we're, we're you know going out and just acquiring land or other.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: buildings are properties that we, you know, don't necessarily see as immediate development potential,, but we know, and you know, three 510 years- are going to be really, really good to own and be a great opportunity for new housing.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: renovation,, another important piece,. We were chatting just before this began about some of the.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: recent renovation, so that's you know,, maintaining our existing portfolio, we're up to about 1600 units total in the city. Currently, so that's important that we are being good. Stewards of those existing communities.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and then finally partnerships. So that's you know, working with the city. It's working with. We have a ton of great private developers, who are creating affordable, housing.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: as well as our nonprofits, so you know folks, like builder shelter, for the homeless, we've done good partnerships with private developer, private developers.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, the cyclo community,, which is over, on just about belmont and foothills. That was a partnership with element properties. That was a good way to get some new housing. So those are kind of all the ways we're currently touching affordability and affordable housing in the city.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: transitioning here so getting more into the funding,. I wanted to touch a little bit on kind of the big funding tool that php uses and really nationally, is the primary tool to create new.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, affordable rental, housing,, and that is the low income housing tax credit you'll, see it commonly abbreviated here la li htc or lie tech. You'll often hear it referred to as.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:, this a federal program actually came out of the. I guess. Most recent tax reform law prior to 2017, which was in the mid 80s and really came out of a desire to replace.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: direct subsidies from the federal government, so that was really the public housing program where you had hud and the federal government directly building.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, affordable housing results of that were certainly mixed. You had, you know large scale projects in big cities that are, you know pretty widely viewed now, as.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: having been a failure of public policy,, and so the low income housing tax credit program was implemented to really replace that and what it does is bring in a private entity as an investor into the the partnership that ultimately builds and owns this housing. So.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: they get basically $1 for dollar tax credit.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: against their federal income tax liability in exchange for providing upfront funding for affordable housing, so.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: simplistic way of how that works is a project will be awarded a certain amount. Of.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: tax credits and it's eligible for an investor will then pay us current pricing. You'll see here is between about 88 and 95 cents on the dollar.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, so they're, basically getting the return, plus a little more of that that difference,, so that between you know, five and 12 cents per dollar of tax credit, as an incentive for investing in the housing is how the low income housing tax credit program, works.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: a little little more detail here so important piece. That's often folks, don't don't realize with it,, but the tax credit program is actually administered by the irs.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, it's a tax credit,, so it sits under them. Rather than hud, they allocate a tax credits annually to state agencies,. So in colorado, that's the.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, colorado, housing and finance authority often shortened to chaff it's based on population. So it's a per capita calculation. That's done.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and then shatha basically administers those tax credits in the state of colorado. So you'll see in the diagram here, they will.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: receive proposals, so it's a competitive process or two application rounds per year, so developers submit applications if chapel likes them. They get awarded tax credits.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: you'll, see on the bottom,. Then those tax credits will flow to the investor as their benefit in exchange will get.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: some funding to help build the housing will also take out a loan. So just like you know, you might have a mortgage on your house,. The affordable housing rebuild all has a debt on it. So.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: lender, will issue alone. That's that is supported by the rent that we charge to the residents.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and then you know kind of the third piece of the pie is grants so for us largest funder. That is certainly the city of boulder. It's that cash and lou and linkage fee money at work,, and that is a kind of a critical piece for us in terms of how we we finance our communities.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, if that wasn't complicated enough,, we add in there are either actually three different types of tax credits that we currently have access to. So.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: there are two federal tax credits, one is the 9% tax credit you'll, see on the left, that's kind of the most valuable and the most competitive. That equity typically brings about 70% of the funding that we need to build. The housing.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: the compliment to that on the federal side is the non competitive, 4% piece,. So that is a.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: tax credit, that, basically,. The federal government has agreed to issue in it,. You know in any amount there's no cap on it,. There are their end up being some some ways that it's kept that.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: are little in the weeds, but that brings about 30% so that resource typically has to get paired with something else to be viable because you're only able to get about 30% of the you know kind of total capital,. You need to build the housing out of that so.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, the third and kind of final tax credits is actually the state of colorado, affordable, housing, tax credit,. So this is relatively new. I think the first year for this was back in maybe 2016 or 2015. It's currently extended at the state level through 2025 so.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: works exactly the same as the federal credit,. The state of colorado basically gives investors, a tax credit against their state income tax liability in exchange for funding for housing,, so that ends up getting paired with the 4% non competitive.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: and get you a lot closer that you know 45 to 60%. You see there in equity that helps to build the housing. So those are kind of the three flavors of tax credits that are currently available.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. I will just quickly pause there in case any immediate questions. I have some more examples of how this works in some hypothetical projects,, but any initial questions on on the tax credit piece.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: all right.

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Hab-Danny teodoru:, is it trending in a direction between those three options? Is one starting to get utilized more or is it just pretty much status right, now.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: yeah, that's interesting! So it's you know. Typically, you see the list of applications. All.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, basically they're all oversubscribed. We typically see about 321, so you know there's funding request for about three times as much money, as is available.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, I can tell you in boulder the last 9% bhp had was probably over 10 years ago at this point,, so we have almost exclusively been using the 4% and state tax credit combination to fund our projects.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. The reason for that is, there is a there's, a cap on the amount of 9% tax credits that chapo will award for a specific project.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: and we tend to see higher construction costs and just higher development costs for our projects in boulder. So what that does is we,. You know we quickly exceed that cap to the point where a project isn't feasible, with the 9%.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. I think you know you know we're always looking at it,. It tends now to be smaller community,. So you know.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: 30, 4050 units,, rather than 60 7080 units,, which is what you'll see more commonly with the the 4% and state combination. So that's certainly been the trend in boulder. I think you know demand, for all of it has has exceeded supply consistently for for a long time, so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. Thank you. Yeah.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, alright,, so., ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: we'll keep moving here,. This is just a quick slide to show you. Some of the things chapter is looking at when they're.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: kind of evaluating projects, so everything from you know location was the transit. Like obviously you know, what's what's the need,? Who are you serving.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. They want to look at you know: what's the population that you're serving,, are there any special populations? Energy efficiency has been a big focus in the last couple of years,, so we.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: certainly,, are good good at that in boulder. The city has a very strict energy codes. So that's always looked at favorably by chaska.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and then,. This last point readiness to proceed,, which is really you know how how how quickly after an award are you able to pull a building? Permit start construction and you know, bring that housing to the market.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: is a is a very important one,, so something we're always very cognizant. Of.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: this., ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:. This slide we really included when we did our the same presentation for planning board who's. You know, often reviewing our projects,, but this is our kind of internal you know,, then venn diagram, but.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: timeline for the city of boulder is kind of entitlement process to take a project from you know, we bought a piece of land, we're ready to start designing.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: through a full building permit,, so you know we're currently seeing that's probably about a two year process, just based on current timeline, so the city has quite a quite rigorous review process, which is you know,, certainly a good thing,. I think, for the vast majority of cases, but.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. This is kind of what we're navigating through when we're preparing to go to chapel, because they're.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:, always looking at that readiness to proceed how far along in this process are we, and how close, are we to being able to pull a building permit for any any given application? So that's kind of what the what the city process looks. Like.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, hey in this is julie,. I had a question just on the on the last slide.

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Yeah.

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Hab-Juliette boone: so, with respect to housing, need and characteristics, is that,. How is it determined with the housing types,? You mentioned that a large proportion of.

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Hab-Juliette boone: the clients that you serve, have children and then there's another proportion that people with people with special needs,, and I would imagine the housing types of those two groups would be quite different..

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Hab-Juliette boone: the style of housing and and their people have housing preferences and we hear.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, it that's why people leave boulder at a certain you know, in a certain demographic profile,. How does how does that get determine? Because it's a little subjective, right.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, yeah, absolutely., ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, so yeah good question. I actually have some future slides that I think, will kind of show you how bhp is looking at what we're seeing in the market in terms of just demographics and where the demand is but..

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: so for chaffetz, a very kind of black and white process,, so you know, will propose a project. So bhp will look at you. Know.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. What demand, have we seen? Where are we seeing kind of the highest need,? Will you know kind of create a program around that and then chapter requires a third party market study,, so we go out and hire a market analyst.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, they basically determine you, know here's the market area and do a very you know: analytical review, there are.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: this many households in that market area,. There are this many at that income strata,. These are the comparable properties,. These are the amenities, that those properties.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: and develop, what's known as the capture rate,, which is a big item for chapo, which is basically, you know how many, how many people out of the pool of potentially eligible households,? Would you need to.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: capture to fully lease your your property, so they're, looking at it from a very like you know they don't want.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. They don't want you, building a bunch of three bedroom units,. If your market area only has single households, who are not going to qualify for those units, so for them, it's a very kind of cut and dry analytical, driven process that that we have to hire an analyst to to perform.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, thank you. Yeah.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: alright,, so these next few slides they're just gonna, be a couple examples, just to kind of illustrate.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: the power of the low income, housing tax credit and how it works in practice. So very simple kind of 50 unit example project.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: at the top there you'll see kind of sources of funding. The bottom are the uses of funding,, so you know bland hard costs,, which is you know, kind of our.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: construction, developer, fee soft costs, so things like architects and engineers, so hypothetical 50 unit project, you can see, at it, you know,, affordable rents,. We could take out approximately five. You know five and a half million dollars in debt.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, we might be able to go, get a million dollars in grants so from the city of boulder from the state from boulder county.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but it's going to cost us a little over $19 million to build those 50 units which leaves us with you know, a tremendous gap of about you know we're about 12 and a half million dollars short in this,. You know kind of simple.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: calculation here,, so you know clearly not not feasible.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. When we add you know tax tax credits into the mix here kind of have that new table on the right, you can see,. For for that hypothetical project.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: tax credit equity would bring a bow $11 million dollars to the project up front,, which basically would almost entirely fill our..

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: fill our gaps and so,. Then you can see, you know, using the city of boulder. That's that's really that cash in lieu.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: money and some additional outside grants were were suddenly able to be at the point where we have a project that works.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but the key you know, in all of our communities is that is that tax credit equity,. So that is certainly the largest driver of our budgets in terms of what.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know the percentage, it makes up, which you can see there on the rights, and you know same project just adding in that equity makes all the difference in in something getting built.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: and then you know, to get a little more nuanced on that piece. This shows a little bit the impact of density. I think it's something we always are looking at. It's always, you know, can be.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, controversial topic,. It can be. You know something that is, you know difficult at planning, board, hearings and those things, but it's, but it's super important for us.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: in terms of feasibility of our projects,, so this just compares a theoretical, 50 and 60 unit project on the same same piece of land. So on the left, you can see.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: all the same, sources and uses from the previous slide. If you're at 50 units you're. Looking at you know, with tax credit equity, we wouldn't need about $1.9 million from the city to make a project work.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: if we were able to say, add 10 units to that same community you'll see the you know. Total cost is going to go up, but also is the.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, total tax credit equity, so that second line from the top you'll see an increase in the 4% state tax, credit.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and then,. What that allows us to do is the the two lines below where you see city of boulder and outside grants, we can. We can reduce those asks.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: pretty significantly so you see,, you know, city theoretically, would be able to ask for about $700,000 less, which is $700,000 that can go to another project.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and the same thing and outside grants portion,. So this is really something that we try to be really cognizant. Of.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and this just gets to you know the the real driving factor here is the you know: what's the total cost per unit of housing that you're building and that's a big metric, we see tracked a chap so.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: density, allows us to really lower that cost per individual unit when you're controlling for kind of, like you know, same piece of land just with the ability to add units, it's certainly beneficial in providing affordability.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: switching gears a little bit to the acquisition acquisition side, this.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: is again just illustrating on the left, new construction,. You can see kind of our sources of funds. You'll see you know: debt grants and tax credit equity.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: the piece,, where we really struggle with acquisitions,. We can certainly go take out a loan against an existing apartment building. There's you know, rent to support that we can certainly go get funds from the city and others.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: the piece that we struggle with is bringing in the tax credit equity. So we've been able to be creative in a few instances and be able to buy some.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, larger kind of apartment communities and then in the future, renovate them and bring in that tax. Credit, equity, but.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. It's certainly a nut, that's difficult to crack when we're looking at acquiring existing buildings,. Just because you know we're missing about a third of the pie there to make make everything pencil out.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: right, let's see julia this, I think we'll also kind of help on some of the household data that we're seeing recently.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: in terms of how we go about thinking about you, know, projects and unit max and who we're trying to serve.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, so all of this data has come from recent market studies. We've done for specific community, so this, you can see from canopy,, which is a project that was just completed about this time. Last year, and you can see,, you know, what's kind of the.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: makeup of renter households in in the boulder area, so.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, you can see, includes students, good.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: yeah, so it's great question and one actually dug into after our planning board presentation,. So this would exclude students who are living in, like a group living setting. So that's you know it dorms, sororities, fraternities or anything. That's classified as group living.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. It would include anyone living in like private rental housing. So obviously you know.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, significant portion of see you probably lives in private rental housing was super difficult to quantify. Did a student respond to this census? Data saying I live in boulder are saying they live in wherever they're from.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: certainly, difficult to parse out, but that that is what this data show,. So I think there is probably a skew for for students in this. When you see the the one person household size, but.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: it also. It does not account for all that either. I would say.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but you can see,, you know, largest percent of renters, is certainly in the smaller household sizes,. You know about 70 75% is at that one and two person household size that we're seeing and pretty consistent from 2017 projected forward to 2022.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, taking that a little more nuanced, so this basically takes the same numbers and then applies income, so who would be basically eligible for affordable housing.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: and we see it's it's pretty consistent,, so you know about 70% of the total households earning less than 60% am. I would be one in two person households.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but you know we also are looking at over 20% that are in the three and four person household size as well,, so certainly need across the board. We've seen lately that you know highest proportion is in that smaller household size.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and it's you know,, certainly been where the demand has been for our units in the last couple of years.

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Hab-Juliette boone: again,: this would this: wouldn't we wouldn't it be hard to parse out the students living in private, rentals and what.

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Hab-Juliette boone: yeah their what their income is., ian swallow,, boulder, housing, partners: right, right and I. hab-juliette boone: guess would be pretty low.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: right,, you would, you would certainly assume, and it is yeah it's it's definitely a struggle for the the analysts who do this work and.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know, I would say just and I'm not sure,. Let me see if I have a future slide on this,, but you know you know anecdotally, in who we end up seeing on our waitlist. It is skewing in those smaller households, more recently.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, even though you know you saw in an earlier slide, where we're primarily serving households with children, a lot of those are.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: you know,, tend to be smaller. Households with children, so can be single parent with two kids single parent with one kid. But it's been an interesting kind of data point that we've seen evolving over the last couple of years, so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: this is,, you know kind of boulder wide market data that came from our 30 pearl market studies,. So this is looking at both you know: anything,, affordable and then market rate and where we're seeing they can see rates. At.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: so,- this would have been probably bow for 2019. So again, it's you know it's kind of showing that that the two and three bedroom units.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: are just not seeing as much demand as the smaller units. Certainly those are low vacancy rates across the board. When you would compare that to other communities,, we do not have high vacancy in boulder, but the demand has really been more that smaller unit size, at least recently.

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Hab-Juliette boone: em, I'm sorry to keep asking.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: no,, no you're, good., hab-juliette boone: to those two and three bedroom. Do we know what kinds of developments, those are situated in? Are they in high density,, primarily in high density development,, where you might see two and three bedrooms, or they and other neighborhoods, where it's more of a duplex or a triplex.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: yeah, you know.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: yeah, that's a good question. You know the data is probably not that nuance to break that down.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, I would say again just anecdotally. No, I'm what.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: seemed market rate projects come through they're, really not been a lot of market rate with the three bedroom units. There's. Certainly some a two bedroom but.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, it's pretty rare, to see new market rate rental, providing the three bedrooms, which would be more in that you know higher density, more like an apartment, building.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. So I would guess it's a pretty it's a pretty fair representation across the board,. It would include some of those. Yet you know duplexes or townhomes things like that.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but I. ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:. The data is just not doesn't get into that. Unfortunately.

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Hab-Juliette boone: thanks yeah.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and then,- this is, is showing just kind of you know, unit unit size across our portfolio compared to kind of market rate units that had been built since about between. I think that 2018 and 2020.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, so you can see,. You know both php and the market.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: are mostly providing one in two bedroom units,, but you will see,, you know bhp when you look at the three and four bedroom units significantly more than what the market has been providing so.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:, the demand is, has not been as high for those units,, but but it's obviously not zero,, and you know our mission is obviously to serve serve. Anyone in need of affordable housing in boulder so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. We certainly do have a number of three and four bedroom units,. Those are you know. We try to always have a diversity of housing types throughout the city, so whether that's.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know up in north boulder and holiday and it's more of a townhouse style unit or you're in you, know south boulder and it's a stacked flat. But it's a three bedroom.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. We try to have a variety of unit types kind of throughout throughout the city and throughout our portfolio to kind of serve serve all those demographics, where we're seeing them.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and do at this is,, you know kind of I guess reinforcing that point about you know. New market rate has been three bedroom units have been basically non existent in the past couple of years, just just from what I've seen, and you know you can see it in this data as well.

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Hab-Juliette boone: and these are for rent and for sale.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:- this would just be for rent and market unit sides yep,. So this is just for rent. We have seen,, I mean, there's, certainly been some new construction for sale,, but not.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, not at any kind of scale recently,, so we have not seen large new condo developments, but boulder certainly does not have a land use pattern that would have you know larger subdivisions being added,, where you're at in 400 for sale units. Anything like that.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, so that's been a different market in terms of what is getting provided. It's been almost exclusively new rental in the last couple years.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: switch switching gears again wanted to just touch on a point that jay brought up,, which is permanently supportive, housing and kind of how bhp is working to provide housing for for folks excellent homelessness, so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know, we've really come about it in a number of ways. You'll see the picture kind of in the top right. There is our.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: lee hill community up in north boulder right across the street from our office. So that's 31 units, it's 100%, permanent, supportive housing. So each unit, there is occupied by a formerly homeless client.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: a lot of onsite services, all in one building, and we have also been in the last couple of years working to provide supportive housing units that are kind of..

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: more dispersed through through the community and through our portfolio so you'll, see a lot of our new construction projects will have a percentage of the units that are set aside for supportive housing, so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know anywhere between 10 and 25% so,, for instance, 3030 pearl, which is just wrapping up in the next couple of months. We had 10 supportive housing units there, where we partner with the boulder shelter for the homeless,, to provide services.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, and we do. We really do the same thing when we acquire existing buildings, a lot of times. That's a that's, a really good way to to get people housed quickly when we're able to acquire new building and provide some support, housing there.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and then, finally,, the the city has provided some local funding. So it's a voucher program for supportive housing, units.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: that mimics kind of the housing choice voucher, often known as section eight,, which is the federal subsidy, that's largely available,, so we do administer a number of those city of boulder vouchers.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: for support housing, clients in boulder.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: this., ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:. This is a good slide. I think an important one,. I think you know we.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: have really heard lately and it's you know impossible to miss,. I think the the homeownership piece, and that low and moderate.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: income, homeownership piece, so bhp, you know we have traditionally been. We build own and maintain our own rental housing.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, that's what basically housing authorities mission is and what you'll find most housing authorities do. We have certainly been interested in looking at home ownership,, especially just given the gap that's really developed in boulder for that piece.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners:, and this slide is really just to show kind. Of.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: the hurdle that we run into there,, so the left you'll see. Basically, that bar is showing what you know typical cost,. You could expect to provide.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: a three bed: two bath kind of single family home, even a townhouse. Something like that. So we're seeing you know land is coming in, currently,, where we see about $100,000 per unit for the land, costs.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: construction costs have been definitely trending up and then you know infrastructure entitlements, that's going through the city process and financing costs. So.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:- all in you know we're seeing a cost to build a unit or a home like that is probably in the 550 to $600,000 range surprising to a lot of people. You look at the market, and you can see, oh,. I can buy that in westminster, for you can buy something for 400,000 bucks.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but really you know, the cost for new construction is pretty prohibitive part of the reason,. When you see new new, you know for sale, construction in boulder, it's a lot of scrape offs and then you'll see you know. Million plus dollar homes for sale on that is. This. Is that the reason why.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: and on the right,, which you'll see, is basically what you know what would be affordable for someone earning at the various am I level so.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:, the bottom you'll see somebody at 60%, which is you know the upper limit of the programs. We run all the way to somebody.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: who's. You know very solidly in the middle income at 120% of am I,, so there is a very real gap between what it costs to build that unit and what an affordable price is to the end. User.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and the piece, we were missing here is the tax credit equity,. So you know that is the big federal resource that allows us to build, affordable rental housing and there is just not an equivalent source for ownership. Housing.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. There is certainly no funding available from the city,. They run a really great homeownership program and and boulder does better than a lot of communities and providing that low and moderate income home ownership. Piece.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but it is, you know increasingly difficult.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: to do just given the lack of any kind of you know, major federal resource to do that. So.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: not meant to be, you know, saying this is something just we you know kick aside and will never look at we're. Actually looking at.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: some options with some land bank parcels bhp, currently owns and trying to get creative with you know,. Maybe some modular construction and things like that to be able to provide some of that.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: kind of middle income, homeownership opportunities,, because it's clearly a big missing piece,, but it is,. It is definitely something that is difficult and requires some some new resources and and creative thinking. So I wanted to be sure, and touch on that piece as well.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: and that is it so.

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ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: that thanks again for having me and and happy to hang out answer any questions or just general comments or anything like that.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: so,, even just., hab-danny teodoru: for clarification, sake, so.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: you're really focused on.

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Hab-Danny teodoru:, affordable ownership,, rather than rental right. It looks like from for here that's been there, so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, I suppose. ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: the opposite, so we're we're more much more focused on affordable rental. So that's all we, I guess for who we own a portable ownership. But, basically,. You know we.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: we own and manage all of the affordable rental housing in the city,. We do not at least currently we're working on some potential options,, but we do not currently provide any kind of ownership opportunities through bhp. The city.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: nj can certainly speak to that. The city does provide that piece,, but bhp does not okay.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: with pizza, looks like maybe a question.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: yes,, thank you for seeing the my raise hand.

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Ex officio lupita d, montoya: yeah, the question I have is regarding this difference between the rental in ownership,, because you know, in the planning board. It comes up often.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: that that we do not have much to offer in terms of ownership, and you just sort of answer that question. We don't have a federal.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: program that can provide some funds to allow us to close that gap right. So I'm wondering now, with all of this discussion with the new administration.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: is that any kind of program that you guys see coming down the pipeline from the federal government to provide some of those funds to improve housing, because they do know it's a problem. You know countrywide, but in terms of ownership, you have you guys heard any rumblings about that.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know I have not. I've heard plenty of rumblings on the tax credit side and improvements to that program,, but I have not heard anything on the ownership side.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know, and it's it's a it's a tough one,. You know traditionally the subsidy or just you know kind of resource has been more on the on the demand side,. So you know when we're the low income housing.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: tax credit is much more trying to help on the you know: supply side,, so money comes to the developer, and the owner of the housing.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, where we've seen you know, federal resources that go to help home ownership has been much more targeting, like you know, downpayment assistance for a specific household.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: remember coming out of the financial crisis,. You had like a first time: homebuyers tax, credit.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, so it's much more focused on like funding to the individual, rather than funding on the supply side, like trying to lower the cost of the housing,. So you know focus on giving households more resources to buy a still expensive home.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:, the difficult part, has always been,. How do you give you know homeownership the person owns it so that,. How do you account for that benefit and make sure it lives on you know for future users and you know,? Do you give some you know.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: you buy an affordable home. What you know, is there a resale restriction,? How do you kind of keep that affordable, so.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:, that's always been one of the difficult pieces to to crack and I think you know, one of the reasons,. The federal government has kind of more opted to give. You know: resources to an individual to go, buy a house, rather than trying to lower the cost of the house.

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Ex officio lupita d, montoya: so,, following all that and going back to some of the data that you gave earlier regarding you know the preponderance of the of the housing, that we do have on the rental side being smaller.

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Ex officio lupita d, montoya: numbers,, I think one or two bedrooms. Could it be a correlation in that, in fact, that people that are not interested on renting a three bedroom will rather buy a house.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: elsewhere,, because at that point you're talking about a real family,, because when you talk about one or two people, usually you know it may be.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya:, you know, a single person, potentially a couple,, but not before they're having children potentially. So I'm just wondering if there is something any that issue as ever come up with the people who put form the the market studies.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: yeah, you know, that's that's interesting,. I think that is certainly the anecdotal thing you here in boulder all the time right,, so you.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: folks live here. They maybe get ready to buy a house and they end up. You know looking elsewhere,, you kind of drive ease,, so you can afford. It is kind of the.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: the way it's often described. We don't really look at that in our market studies,. Those are, you know, highly specific to a particular development and really meant to serve like the needs of chapo. When they're reviewing it.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but it is an interesting question. Again,. I think you know,. Sometimes those anecdotal stories are the case on the ground,, but sometimes they're. Just you know, a result of the people. We happen to interact with.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: rather than you know, the actual need there,. So I don't have any hard data on that, unfortunately,, but it is,. It is definitely something we hear a lot.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya:, so my question is, is what will be the right process to try to get out that data.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: to know that so weekend know for sure that is not anecdotal. I mean I do know faculty su who have specifically mentioned,. They have to move to superior because they were enough for at home here in boulder.

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Ex officio lupita d, montoya: and so,, like that story, there's many other stories that we hear,, but my want mike my question. Is,. Is it a way where we can systematically get that information for sure, instead of email telling stories.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: and under whose you know jurisdiction, will that full you know gathering that data.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: yeah boy- that's um I am not a market analyst! That's a that's a tough piece to try to quantify exactly for someone individuals, leaving.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, I think,, certainly the city and jay I'll, probably defer to you on that,. I know you all, probably have looked at that a little bit, more, but.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know it's it's difficult to quantify and actually put numbers to that that kind of a situation, jan. I don't know if you guys have done any studies or anything.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: yeah, I mean so peter. We did a middle income market study back in 2015. We talked a little bit about this at planning board, not too long ago.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, but the thing that I would keep in mind so there's your acid there's sort of two different questions,, so the transition from rental to wanting to buy a house,. I think we.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: established quite strongly that purchasing a home in boulder is expensive,, but I would say, there is still a demand for three and four bedroom rentals in boulder, as in charge, those are there still fully leased, there's still demand.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: they may take longer to leave stuff, but there's still demand,, which is different than you. Know, is there,, affordable, her affordable ownership, opportunities.

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Ex officio lupita d, montoya: yeah and so, and then,, then my question,, the second one was: you know who will be the right? Guy? Ntt group.-.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: to do an analysis on that. Is this something that you know the city will could take on,? Is it something that the planning board can suggest, or are we,? You know sort of at the mercy of you know, when these are the projects I've done and people get hired.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: him for a very specific, you know,, like this, this.,.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: companies get hired to do the analysis and they're. Frankly, I will suspect that they do just a you. Know,, a pretty basic commercial base analysis, nothing too sophisticated to try to get up there sort of problem.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: and I'm wondering, if that,, if that is an option,, so how.

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Ex officio lupita d, montoya: yeah. cob-jay sugnet:, so it would be,, I would say, yes, it is,. I would just be really clear as to what the question is that you want answered.

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Ex officio lupita d, montoya: yes,, that there is not there's no alternative within the city or or to find out cool, will be able to do a an analysis like that that we were talking about.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: how their hands., cob-jay sugnet: who's, next.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:, in my hand, raise but I'll defer somebody else who's. Next in line.

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Hab-Jacques juilland:, um I I'll go ahead and go, since I.

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Hab-Jacques juilland:, he and I just you, touched on jaffa and the readiness component of working with them.

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Hab-Jacques juilland:: do you have any.

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Hab-Jacques juilland:, I mean,: how does the city, does the city work with you in that process in any.

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Hab-Jacques juilland:, like special manner,, are there any compensations for you or you just in the pipeline with everybody else.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, yeah, yeah great question: we we are treated like like any other developer,, so we go through the exact same plan. Ruby or you know, concept, review, site, review, tech, doc, you know,, obviously specific to a property but.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. We we don't get any special pass,. I think you know oftentimes our you know. Some of our projects are higher scrutiny,. Some are not but.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. We we have really tried in the last couple of years to be in that city process. What what we don't want to do is is go to chat.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: here, here's our projects, it gets approved,. Then we go through the city process. There's you know, requests for changes to that from staff or from planning board or from council.-.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: and then we have to say, oh,, but we got this approved by chat. So you know we're between a rock and a hard place. So.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. What we've really tried to do in the last few years is get through,. You know kind of the first main milestones of that city entitlement process.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: before submitting to chap up so that we know this is a project that the city supports that the community supports.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: and then that's the budget that goes the chapel is for that project,. So we avoid that like back and forth, and but we got this approved,, but you want us to build this kind of process that can happen.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: okay,, so you, you can basically front load it to the city, before going to chat, but that works from your perspective.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: it does it does, and that you know it's you'll see a lot of private developers. Don't necessarily like to do that because it,, you know it costs a lot of money to go through the city planning process and that's you know that that's a risk for them and that's.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, something that they tend to be averse to it's. You know it's it's similar rest of the hp. I mean we have to spend money before, knowing that we have a project. That chapter is going to support and approve.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: we've been around. You know. We know the process really well,. So we like to think we're not. You know we have a good sense of where everything, but what's a project, that's going to work for everybody,. So I think that's a that's a key part of it as well. Okay.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: great thanks, yeah.

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Great.

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hab-michael leccese: arbonne homeownership for the moment,, because I know it's really important to have people on this board that may influence our work plan,, but first questions or clarification is bhp interested in getting more involved in for sale. Housing is not restricted from doing that anyway. Correct.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. There is no yeah, no like statutory restriction.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. I think it's not been something we've done a lot of lately and that's you know direction from our board,. I think you know generally housing authorities role has been to serve kind of like the most vulnerable and those.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: at that deep, deep affordability, level, I mean you saw you know $16,000 a year median income for our household so.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, certainly that's where I think we've been focused,, but we have. You know it'd be impossible not to hear that.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: coming from the community,, as indeed so it's been something I think we've been starting to look at just to assess feasibility,. Is there a way bhp can help or bring some expertise or things like that.

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Hab-Michael leccese: and then those gaps, he showed, and you know the cost of providing housing for different. A man's name is it's for sale is really interesting,. Would you say the primary impediment or factor driving that is land costs or could also be other factors? Regulatory.

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Hab-Michael leccese: market forces., ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: it yeah it's.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. Really it's really all the above,. I mean,, I think you know the unique piece that kind of market forces is. You know you see that across the board,, so you know, labor has been.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: really difficult. Not you know it's it's it's expensive. It's also just like number of workers right like it's hard to get capacity for construction, that you know, I think we know, is probably not changing anytime soon. It's just kind of a trend across the country.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, certainly the city's process for entitlements is, is quite rigorous compared to other communities that you know not saying that's a bad thing,. I think we end up with really high quality projects as a result,, but it does that cost.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but the biggest piece that you know sets folder apart from other similar communities on the front range is that is that land costs piece.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. We are always beating the drum at jaffa. When they see our you know, our total development costs will be much higher than anyone else.

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Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, and so we really have to point to how much did it cost to acquire the land,? What are the you know, additional costs that we see from the city process from construction costs, all that stuff, so yeah.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: thank you,. We might come back to it later,, but thank you so much yeah.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: do that yeah.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, um I just to peter's point I am. I had recently looked at the housing choice survey,, and I know that that was done many years ago. 2016, I think or 2015.

C

Hab-Juliette boone:, but something notable in there,, and that was done by an outside research firm and I'm not sure how they did their research,. But something notable in there is that over half of the in commuters that they surveyed,. So this is a survey and commuters had previously lived in boulder and.

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Hab-Juliette boone: of the middle intercom respondents that were in commuters 80% are living in single family homes. So, to me that indicates a preference for a single family home in commuters at median income.

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Hab-Juliette boone: people who had previously and a large proportion of those people had previously lived in boulder because there was a lack of that housing type edit, affordable at a price,. They would put a show want to afford or able are able to afford without stretching themselves. So so thin.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, so I feel like that. Data is there, somewhere, and maybe we need to revisit that, and I don't know who does that to your point: lupica who's responsible for gathering that kind of data,. But we have some reference to that data and information from a survey that was done.

C

Hab-Juliette boone:, I guess the most recent survey that was done on on those profiles unless there's something more recent or I missing something.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: you're not missing anything. So there was a companion piece to the housing choice survey,, which was the housing market analysis.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so both done by bbc now route consulting.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet:, I mean they're. Both great reports, we will spend more time, is have talking about them in august, at the august meeting and going through those findings.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet:, but I would venture to guess that those findings still apply today. I don't think that the market has changed. Dramatically.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet:, I think you're just going to find it's more exaggerated than it was back in 2015, so I mean we can update the numbers, I'm just not sure how much value that would be. Unless there's a new question that we haven't been answered with previous work. Surfaces.

C

Hab-Juliette boone:, as long as people feel that that data is still valid and could we could extrapolate it forward,. I think we need to make sure we're factoring that in as we think about.

C

Hab-Juliette boone: housing in general on this in the city.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, that was awesome, presentation and thank you.

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Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: yeah, of course, thank you.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: anyone else the peter. Do you still have to have a good one.

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Ex officio lupita d, montoya: yeah just to follow up. Thank you julia. I was looking at the chat, so thank you for the mentioning this was also mentioned in the planning board about some of the data already indicate some of these discrepancies that we do know that likely the.

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Ex officio lupita d, montoya: anecdotal data that we discuss regularly is reflected in the actual data that we got from that that that survey and the question then becomes in my mind.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya:, what do we do with that, and you know, because I think it has to do with interpretation. You know it doesn't take too many steps to kind of put these two pieces together and you did it beautifully right. Now.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya:, so that that the question is there something in the hands of the city that could do to kind of move in that direction,? So we can address that that gap because,, even in the way that we're planning or you know our growth,. It continues to be focusing and in the lower the lower.

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Ex officio lupita d, montoya: household numbers, I'm sorry that number of people number of people, one or two people on a on a on a houseful and that we by the sign.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya: continue to exclude this other people that continue to drive into the city,, so that problem is not going to go away,, and so my question has to do. Is there something somewhere that we can start looking at that problem with a little bit more eyes for action.

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Ex officio lupita d montoya:, if it's not the government, is that any other things that can be done within the cd the state, something to advocate for.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya:, that's it.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: yeah. I think we can get to that question. When we get to her priorities. Discussion we've identified some of the barriers here, and the question is which ones, do we want to focus on that are.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:, not in super bowl, I suppose.

F

Cob-Jay, sugnet: and and just remember next next month august, we have on the agenda tentatively to discuss middle income in the middle income. Strategy, the work that the city has been doing for the past.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: four years now and sort of what's on our current work plan, specifically to dress middle income, homeownership.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: very., hab-michael, leccese: good friend, and make that presentation jay my remind me.

A

Cob-Jay sugnet: of makeup expert.

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Hab-Michael leccese:: this is a great discussion,. Do you want to keep going,, or should we move on to the next agenda item, which would be our retreat follow.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: any other questions for ian is,. This is a unique opportunity. We're not going to have them all the meetings.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: and throw anything about php anything, throw it out.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, I just want to say thank you very helpful.,.

D

Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: absolutely.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I actually have another question. I don't want to let you go quite yet.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: I'm curious about your kind of strategy as far as the land, banking and what what you look for, what kinds of properties you're trying to call in under that.

G

Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, yeah yeah, absolutely it's um it's it's a broad umbrella,. So what we look for is basically anything in the city of boulder, that is,, you know remotely possible to build housing on. I mean that that.

G

Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, truly is kind of the situation. When you, when you look around,, I mean the city is mostly built out,, so we will look at basically any any property,, but you know, we have,. So we go through kind of traditional methods that we work. With.

G

Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: a brokerage, that's always kind of looking for us sending us things. We do have good relationships kind of throughout the city,, so we get a fair amount of you know off market inquiries.

G

Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: we've had a lot of success,. You know, partnering with other kind of mission, focused agencies.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, so you know, churches, for instance,, who maybe are seeing a decrease in you, know attendance, but want to do something,. You know mission focused with their property that they own but.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners:, but yeah I mean you know. We have looked at.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know adaptive, reuse sides I get, you know, give you an example, or recent most recent kind of land bank purchase,, which is the rally sport, fitness center.

G

Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners: so right over on 29th and bluff. So again,, that was that was one where it's you know, was not.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, it's not a traditional housing side, it's not a vacant piece of land,, but it was an opportunity for us and a really excellent location to work with that that owner to purchase that property. So that was a great one and yeah all those kinds of things.

G

Hab-Jacques juilland: so,, for instance, on that,. What are you that when he appears anyway,, I don't know what the zoning is there,, but are you looking to do you need to get through an entitlement process for zoning allowances,? There are variances are.

H

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners: how yep so that boy, I forget exactly what it was,. It was either an industrial or kind of like a business general.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but we did so in that we actually went through the site review process and got our site review approved last february.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, but so that's one I mean again will will typically you know, go under contract on a piece of property will go through a concept review process at the city where we can, you know, make make a proposal.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know, here's generally what we're thinking we can get some feedback from planning staff,, as well as planning board and counsel.

G

Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners:- if it's positive, you know, will will close on the property. At that point, with some confidence, that, yes, we'll be able to build some housing here.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:. If it was, you know, horrible,. This is not the location for this. We typically will not close on something until we have some confidence that we could, you know, do happening there. Yeah.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: right yeah. That's I guess that's the piece that I'm wondering about kind of that risk assessment. Moving through the process with the city.

H

Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, yeah, yeah.

G

Ian swallow,, boulder housing partners: like so typically right will our contracts to buy will have a you know,, a due diligence period that gives us enough time to take the property through some initial feedback from the city.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: one one last piece on that: do you find that the sellers you're working with are generally looking for that kind? Of.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: for you, as a buyer, so that they give you more flexibility.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: it does, that is, is, do you kind of lean on that a little bit or.

H

Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: yeah, you know, I would say it's 5050. I think we start a lot of folks reach out because they like the mission.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, I can tell you, we do not get a break on price. Nobody wants to wants to give you a lower price,, which is understandable. Right, I mean that's a land in it, or a building in the city of boulder is an asset but.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, I you know, I think people know bhp. I think they know we're active in development,. So we come to mind when someone's looking to sell, sell some property as a potential.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: acquisition and then a lot of organizations,. You know they do like that. It could be end up as affordable housing,. So I think you know that certainly a benefit.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: good great: are you glad you guys are doing that, because I think we could put a little more effort into land acquisition,? We did a lot for open space. We could probably do a little bit for affordable as a community.

H

Ian swallow,, boulder housing, partners:, definitely yeah.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: and gave them a really easy example: it's not always easy palo park was a big struggle,. You know mount calvary was a struggle.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: so. hab-jacques juilland:, it's a struggle., hab-michael leccese: yeah. It is anything else.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: kind of played it in the planning reserved where they were required to much higher,. As I understand it.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: boy,, you know I try not to not to touch the planning reserve and stay out of that that world, but I.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing partners:, you know I j probably could speak better to that from the latest comp plan updates and all that piece, certainly,. You know something we would track,, but I do not actually know the latest on anything planning reserve, related.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: yeah, so, like I mentioned, I mean we. We have that 20 acres that this that the department of housing and human services own so that'll be 100%, permaculture, affordable.,.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: there is the 40 to 60% requirement,, so it will be primarily affordable,. It will be similar to sort of the holiday or northfield commons example. So mixture of market rate affordable.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet:, but yeah no real planning has been done. So,, you know, there's like you all know,. I think there are lots of steps that have to happen,, so it counseling basically have to authorize a.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: provision of services, study and then go through a lengthy annexation, process, and then a lengthy planning process as well,. That would be community wide so but yeah housing is definitely. I think that will be the primary focus just like every other annexation.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: hey the else for ian.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: last chance all right, thanks.

G

Ian swallow, boulder housing, partners: yep. Thank you. All.

D

Hab-Michael leccese: thank you. cob-corina marin: thank you.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: okay. hab-michael leccese:. The next agenda item is a retreat follow up,. I think we all enjoyed the retreat.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, we made a start prioritizing.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, maybe we can have a quick debrief to start and then we'll have further discussion. So anybody who would like to weigh in a thoughts of what they got out of it, or what they didn't get out of it. Please jump in.

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Hab-Michael leccese: and then we're doing sent out.

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hab-michael leccese: by our facilitator.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, I wasn't there,, so I was hoping I would hear some.

F

Hab-Michael leccese: excuse.

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cob-jay sugnet:. We could start with how staff is doing.

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Hab-Michael leccese: okay, well,, if you observations.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:, if you.

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hab-michael leccese: go that document, that susan provided a draft summary.

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Hab-Michael leccese: there's a whole section on review of the role the housing board.

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Hab-Michael leccese: and the items are highlighted in red and that seemed to be more important to us..

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Hab-Michael leccese: those are the study and recommend the counseling team manager, long and short range goals, ordinances, finding parodies and programs to address recognize housing, needs.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, that's one bullet point and other- is to develop and recommend, with community input, innovative approaches to accomplish city housing goals, quitting tools for housing preservation and the third.

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Hab-Michael leccese: to advise the city, council and city manager concerning the impacts of city policy, proposals on housing, affordability, diversity and accessibility. I'm sorry, there is one more to review regional housing issues and make recommendations to the city. Council.-.

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Hab-Michael leccese: now,, all those in my mind, sound fairly proactive, at least two responses to the survey, I sent out,. I guess,. I need to become a better survey. Writer, but.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, one of the items on that survey was, you know, kind of getting the existential question of why,. Why do we exist,? Is it simply to answer questions from council, to the best of our ability, or are we.

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Hab-Michael leccese: developing more of a innovative having an agenda that we are presenting accountable for their consideration.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, so that to me is an unresolved issue,, though I've gotten some interesting feedback on that and be curious to see what people think.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: michael.

H

hab-jacques juilland:, I mean,, I think you know, I think I've I've kind, of.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: landed strongly on that side of saying you know,. I would like to see our role, become more proactive.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: somewhat more visionary, looking for the solutions and seeing on a broad scale what the city can do and bringing those things to to counsel,. I think you know my whole time on the board. I've been pretty clear about that position and and wanting to move more in that direction.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, you know, and my my rationale: simply, is that.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: the market is overrunning us if we think that the current structures that the city uses for affordable housing are going to actually outstrip.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: the you know, are going to are going to somehow outstripped the speed of the problem, we're fooling ourselves and so without doing..

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: some creative work on our side,. I just don't think we're going to we're going to make a dent in it, I mean I shouldn't say a dent, because I think we are making a dance.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, but the problem is moving faster than we are so we're getting dropped by the leaders and the leaders right now are essentially.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: a market that is investor driven,, I think, to a large degree in our neighborhoods, our lower cost neighborhoods.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and then zoning and you know, peter, can jump in on this one,, but a zoning regimen that essentially.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: prefers., hab-jacques, juilland: single family homes over other options and.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: we're losing land rapidly to the development of very large single family homes,, because that is what our current code and sizes.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: you know,, I have a. I have a perfect example that I'm doing an ad you for a family who live in north boulder on a large lot.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: we got through that process and I just I just want to put this out there as an example of exactly kind of where I think we need to be going and things we need to suggest. Counsel.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: to lock side by side in north boulder, approximately the same size and the one both owned by elderly people, on the one side.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: their children happen to live in town,, are able to move into the main house or able to build an a to us. So that's a great example of getting another unit on a large law.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, but I think that's a rare condition oftentimes and the neighboring house that same large, lot.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: you know,, has been sold to a developer and it's coming down in a big house is going in and that's generally what's happening on those lots, because that's what we.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: allow in our code and we need to get the flexibility, and I think we need to. We, as housing board, need to push council to start working on that zoning flexibility to the large lots.

H

Hab-Jacques, juilland: and says,, you know what, if you got a large law, you're allowed 10,000 square feet and your if they are 8000 whatever it is. You're allowed that if they are regardless of.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: you know, within certain bounds how you're going to develop it,. You can put.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, why don't we have for 2000 square foot? House is on that same piece of land,, so I think those are things that we need to push. We counsel.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and I don't think we're really going to start to have any impact until we start to do some of those things, because it changes the dynamic of the missing middle..

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, if we do that, it hits it from both sides,. It gives people who are being pushed out of their properties because of raising tax rates and fixed incomes,. The ability.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: to utilize their properties and stay on them and not get pushed off of it. So that's where I stand on that stuff. I mean I'm glad that we discussed it at retreat and I'd love to see it.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:, thank you just summarizing before we get to danny. If you add two bullet point that it would be,, we need to look at some zoning innovations.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:: we need to look at zoning innovations, yeah.

H

hab-michael leccese:, that's great danny and.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, I just uh you know, I think jacques and I have agreed on this for a matter of years now, and something that you know we've.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: kind of repeatedly brought up,, but I think you know part of the challenge. Here, too, is that, as time goes on, those windows becomes smaller and smaller because,, as the cost gets more and more prohibitive.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: and people, so just the exact scenario: josh was talking about,, you know. If you don't take advantage of that scenario at that particular point in time, it may you know, move away permanently because somebody ends up buying and it doesn't have any interest in looking at.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: more efficiency in these little end and and you know, at some point in time,, I think we're just running headlong into the the.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, the conflict between white have all these regulations that, in every single way, kind of constrained, a introduction of density, understanding that you know local local housing or you know,, affordable, housing.,.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: has a real density implication to it with having a you know, a lot of policies, saying that you know we really want to focus on.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, affordable housing and I think at some point in time,, you know,. We need to figure out some pathway towards this, that we can really try to effectuate as much as we can,, because it gets more and more challenging month by month,, particularly the last two years..

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Hab-Michael leccese:, okay, again another.

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Hab-Michael leccese: vote. It sounds like for looking at kind of regulatory oversight.

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Hab-Michael leccese: juliet you always have those ideas, please.

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Hab-Juliette boone: well,, I guess,, I would come to that, from a different angle and say if that we ought to be aligning our.

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Hab-Juliette boone: part our work with what the city's goals are, the council's goals and if,, and if you have alignment that we can be more effective and persuasive.

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Hab-Juliette boone: for example, if,, because what you guys are talking about are: they are increasing accessibility to that missing, metal, right, now.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, and so I would flip that and say, hey council, if, if your focus is missing middle here are some ideas,, where we think we can mitigate that missing. That, instead of saying here are innovative ideas.

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Hab-Juliette boone: by the way,, this will accomplish your goal,. I think we articulate it a little differently than maybe we'll get more.

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Hab-Juliette boone: traction.

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hab-juliette boone:. I don't know if that makes sense or not,, but I think I think we have to show alignment and I think we ought to be aligned,. I mean.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, we don't want people moving in a million different directions mean the city. Has people like jane working.

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Hab-Juliette boone: day in and day out, to get information and accomplish goals and and keep and execute what city council's is directing. I think we need to be in alignment and and then be creative to deliver ideas that are going to help push those goals. Forward.

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Hab-Michael leccese:: that's that's, really interesting good! Go ahead! Yeah.

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Hab-Jacques juilland:, I was just gonna, say I think juliet that that's I mean I think, that's exactly what I am when I look at the city's goals in relation to housing,. Our goals are to do those things,, and this is one way to you know. I totally agree with you how we presented this is, of course, critical, but.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, you know,, I suppose,. What I'm just saying is that if we don't look into those those areas and present those ideas, as.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: potential avenues to support the city's goals.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I just think that.

H

hab-jacques juilland:, I guess,. I see that as our role to say, look,. These are things I mean council, staff.,.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: are overwhelmed by all kinds of things on their plate all the time and if we don't present those things to them, obviously, and then you know, in a manner that aligns with our goals and the city goals you know,. So I think that's all we're saying is that you know.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, of course, we're trying to align with the goals as housing is perceived. Now.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: we've recognized that the missing middle is one of those goals,. I think some of the lower income.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: you know,, moderate income stuff is being engaged with already fairly robustly, and I think this missing middle piece, there are some strong things that we could suggest. That would improve our ability, because I do think that is the zone that, in some ways, is most at risk..

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, with the way this market is moving, so yeah I'm.

H

Hab-Michael leccese: sure, for you.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: yeah, just just., hab-danny teodoru: coupling off for juliette, said absolutely agree,, but I just to clarify, I think, we're all. On the same page, we're saying we understand we're an advisory board, and so in this advisory board. We're not.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, you know we're not setting policy, that's what the city council does,, but we don't want to talk about implementation and policy.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, I think a lot of the things that we've talked about a lot of things that we've tried to focus on recent times, really as an implementation.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: of you know, policy directives, as we've heard, and we understand them from the city council like focus on middle income, folks on housing and stuff, like that, so, in other words,. How do you keep.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: middle income, people in their homes in boulder, are given the opportunity,. These are some of the things and includes at us from a lot of different perspectives, etc,. So you know really. What we're talking about here is implementation,, which I believe.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: is precisely what our charges, and so it's really in line with our charges and not trying to set policy we're not trying to direct thing, we're just trying to say here's how we can do it. So.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:, that's really interesting. It, I think, a few months ago. I would have,, but we need to be pushing harder for affordable rental housing serve folks that work in stores, for example, certain segment of the population.

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Hab-Michael leccese: now this project seemed to be.

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Hab-Michael leccese: advancing you know, in a more support than they used to.

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Hab-Michael leccese: peter can certainly talk about that,, but you know you look at things like the diagonal plaza downtown crossing.

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Hab-Michael leccese: water view and the gun barrel project in you know, there's intense controversy over those projects,, but they are.

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Hab-Michael leccese: moving forward, so maybe it makes all the sense in the world to address the category that.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, not being proposed, not being built, has got special challenges, a lot of around land and zoning, which are difficult subjects,, but they are subjects,. You can get your arms around.

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Hab-Michael leccese: and that that could be, or you know,, maybe even evolving through number one. Priority also meant to lead with a bit of news, and that is.

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Hab-Michael leccese: believe I read this right. Jay council is advertising for more applicants to have to fill our vacant positions and we could have more firepower if you will.

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Hab-Michael leccese: or perhaps before the election,, which would be fantastic.

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Hab-Michael leccese: so well. That's a great example of a priority.

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Hab-Michael leccese: hey what else would jump out.

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Hab-Michael leccese: to you,. I also like the idea that we could be proposing some innovative strategies, but that you know kind of lafayette with something that I've been talking about. It will address something: that's me,, you can turn it on their plate.

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Hab-Juliette boone: michael, did you get my essay response.

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Hab-Michael leccese: I did. hab-michael leccese:. I am quite enjoyed. Reading it.

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Hab-Michael leccese: and hab-michael leccese: yeah you,. You are extremely responsive to what I was asking,, which I appreciate. It.

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Hab-Michael leccese:: I can try to review some of your comments, but or call them up,, but you might want to report to yourself,. We did you know. We talked about the house, for example,. Do you have some thoughts about that.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, I mean,. I had comments about all of your all of the categories and I.

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Hab-Michael leccese: think that I.

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Hab-Juliette boone: my first comment: is.

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hab-juliette boone: is I I'm a fan of doing fewer things and doing them, really, really well versus trying to do a lot of different things.

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Hab-Juliette boone: and only having time to do them. Sort of so so well, and I pointed to an example: of.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, I know jared polis, has implemented this process, called the four disciplines of execution in in his government.

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Hab-Juliette boone: and it's a methodology- that's been used by businesses all across the world,. That really gets everybody focused in line, but behind a few important goals and then people to set targets and metrics and and work to achieve those it's a hard thing to implement. But it's a great model for.

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Hab-Juliette boone: tackling some things and actually getting getting things done, and so,, not that we have to implement that model in this format,, but I'm a fan of that, and so, with that in mind,. I would rather look at.

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Hab-Juliette boone: fewer priorities and do them really well that have a lot of different priorities, and so,. When I was,, I also have the opinion that we you know,. We need to choose our priorities based on.

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Hab-Juliette boone: data, that's pointing us to those priorities,. How are we,. How are we coming up with these priorities,? What evidence and supported by research show that these things should be priorities, and then what are we going to pick within those.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, so I know that planning board and the pita may have a comment. I've heard from other members of planning board that.

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Hab-Juliette boone: that middle income housing strategy is going to be a priority and with respect to the n housed, I think we spend a lot of time on the announced last year and and listening to presentations..

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Hab-Juliette boone: by kurt and others that the city really does an exemplary job of taking care of the house, of course,. We can never do enough.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, but we have finite resources, and so we've spent a lot of time on that and we have actually really excellent professionals working on.

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Hab-Juliette boone: problem solving for the announced currently so where we want to direct our time this year to solve some of the other housing problems that we have in the city.

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Hab-Juliette boone:. That was my comment about about the announced,. I want to be very clear that I support, focusing on the unhealthy but.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, but I think we have also an excellent.

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Hab-Juliette boone: system, an organization in place that can always be improved,, but is exemplary compared to most parts of the country.

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Hab-Juliette boone: mean I had other comments about your questions with regard to some committees and listening sessions. I don't know if you want me to go into any of that. Michael but.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, I didn't actually mean to put you on the spot. On that one issue. I was just trying to start someplace.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: and I think, we've already agreed,- I mean yeah. The city does do some really great programs on the analysis and yet it's a problem. That's you know with us all the time because can't get away from.

D

Hab-Michael leccese: and I think we have already agreed,- we need to focus on providing housing in that social services and not policing. That's not our bailiwick, I'm I'm personally impacted that.

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Hab-Michael leccese: yeah we'd love for you to review. And again I just got your comments today,, so I haven't had a chance to read them. And, certainly,, as I might it,, but I thought, a lot of them are excellent,. So please go on with your thoughts about committees and listening sessions.

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Hab-Juliette boone: sorry,, I was on mute there. I'm just pulling up my notes. So.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, my comment about subcommittees were that it it's. I find this format to be difficult to be effective, with a subcommittee, because we can really only have two people on a subcommittee we're also.

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Hab-Juliette boone: stretched thin. You know, we don't have. We don't have interim meetings, we just have these monthly meetings and so progress can be slow because of that.

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Hab-Juliette boone: and we're also lay people are not professional researchers,. So a lot of times. The reports that we put together don't really have data data that would be rigorous, the.

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Hab-Juliette boone: approved as a real method, methodological approach to gathering and analyzing data, or peer reviewed and that.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, you know,, really professional researchers are best equipped so.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, if the city or, if the subcommittee's requiring some component of research to inform its recommendations and I.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, then I would say it's hard to be effective,, given our format and are the fact that we're late people and we're not experts in this research and we don't have.

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Hab-Juliette boone: access to resources to fund and structure, this kind of research, so that was a general community in general comment about subcommittees and it also dilutes our energy if we're going to all focus on a few things. So that was in the context of focusing on a few things.

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Hab-Juliette boone: should I mentioned we're listening session comment. I wanna, I don't want to speak so take up too much air here, michael.

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Hab-Michael leccese: no,. We we heard some enthusiasm for the listening sessions at the retreat and I think you're offering a important.

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Hab-Michael leccese: criticism of that,, so please continue.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, so I think the the listening sessions have the potential to be excellent,. I think that we need to be clear about what what the goals we're trying to accomplish with those are we.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, you know and and I would submit that our goal should be to listen to a wide range of constituents and stake holders and be able to provide a balanced feedback to inform the decisions that we recommend are the recommendations to. City council.-.

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Hab-Juliette boone: and that we need to be clear with attendees about that,, but it's a it's a given take. I would say, you know listening sessions,, where we can provide a platform to help solve people's problems and.

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Hab-Juliette boone: connecting resources is a great way to to employ a listening session and that,. I think.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, if we can create an environment where people can have mutual understanding.

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Hab-Juliette boone: sort of walk a mile in another person's shoes through a listening session, and I think in my example.

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Hab-Juliette boone: that I sent to you, michael, was the one that we had about the affordable housing experience,, where we had.

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Hab-Juliette boone: people that developers have affordable housing and then we had people residents of affordable housing and you could hear give and take in terms of understanding what some of the challenges are on both sides and enhance..

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Hab-Juliette boone: mutual understanding and.

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hab-juliette boone: on both sides. I think that's was valuable and we have to be careful that we are not.

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Hab-Juliette boone: invited inviting attendees that are there to promote their activists, agenda or.

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Hab-Juliette boone: to use it as a platform to air grievances. That's not what those are for their for listening and sharing a broad range of views. That's my opinion on them,. So I think if we can.

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Hab-Juliette boone: offer listening sessions in person,, where I think they they are much better in person and online that accomplish that are structured in that way,, but that that is the wave,, which I would want to approach listening. Sessions.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, so using that model I just reread what you wrote.

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Hab-Michael leccese: a listening session would be.

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Hab-Michael leccese: more, like practitioners sharing and sharing your knowledge.

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Hab-Michael leccese: much in the way we're hearing from city officials in summer beings were perhaps a little bit more open, larger format,, and I think you know getting people like scott holding those you will. I member is a great idea.

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Hab-Michael leccese: is that kind of what you have in mind with that maybe a little bit more by invitation only and get the experts and tell us how they can get these things. Done.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, I'm not necessarily by invitation only, I think, I'm at it's, it's being able to represent two sides of an issue,, for example in the affordable housing panel or listening session, that we had. We had people who are.

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Hab-Juliette boone: residents of affordable housing and people that develop affordable housing and for residents to hear that scott took out a $20 million.

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Hab-Juliette boone: personally, guarantee a $20 million loan to build an affordable housing development,. I think, was helpful because they understood that all this, he had to put his own.

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Hab-Juliette boone: home on the line on personally guarantee something to get that he believed in getting something done yes,. He runs a for profit business but yes,. He also put it put his.

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Hab-Juliette boone: livelihood at risk and then for him to hear some of the challenges that people have living in an affordable unit. That.

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Hab-Juliette boone: requires some maintenance after a certain period of time, and not having access to funds to replace the flooring or whatever it is,. And how do we solve for that,, so I think, share a mutual understanding and a shared.

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Hab-Juliette boone: a sharing of information, a perspective of what and people were great. They didn't air their grievances, they shared their experiences, and it was just.

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Hab-Juliette boone: helpful to have all of that,, and I it just creates more shared appreciation for others in the community and and less polarization. I think, that's a worthy goal. These days.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, that's great and bring two threads together are we,. Is it worth discussing a listening session on missing middle that would include community members, housing developers, people finance, housing.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, I think that's a great idea and in commuters. Why do people leave.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: yeah, I mean,, I think it just going to jump in real, quick on the listening sessions. I I kind of have a bit of a soft spot, and I do believe that it is an it's. I think it's an important part of our role,, but I agree with juliet that the focus on them and the structure of them.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and maybe even the selection of them.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: you know, needs to be.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: a little bit more focused in,, and I think that one that we did around tiny homes because experiences with that was great.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and, and the affordable housing, because it did bring those sides together, just to.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: hear perspective and I,. You know I'd love to see that kind of thing. Continue.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I think it's an interesting which you just brought up, michael because part of me was when I was listening to juliet I was like well should listening sessions,. Should we specifically focus those around work,? The council is doing.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, because in one sense that you know, and I just.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: rolling this around in my head in one sense that they really gives council as julia, was concerned about before we're not kind of spreading the net, but we're helping council to get some feedback from the public,. And that could be a very helpful.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: addition to their data set, so to speak.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: you know, on the other hand.

H

hab-jacques juilland:, there's kind of this educational piece. That leads me down the road that you just suggest, michael, which is like well, the missing middle. We know it's something. That's of interest in town councils tried to engage with it in certain ways.

H

Hab-Jacques, juilland: and so, should we go out and see what the community understands about that, and what their perspectives are on it.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, so it's there's kind of two different ways that we could utilize the listening session and I'm wondering if we should be open to both those or if it's better, to focus on one that..

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: makes keep our our tracks, a little closer together, so to speak, and keep us from from bringing in.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: this you know I guess some can be useful for us. Some might be useful for counsel. I guess I'm just wondering about that, and how we use it. That way.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: so.

A

Hab-Danny teodoru: danny well,, I think you know we've had so few I'm,, particularly given the form that we've been.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: moving forward on here for well over a year, now.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, so I think you know the whole notion right now, focusing on the things that really touch on.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: key council initiatives makes a lot of sense when we and we can fill our plate with those without question. The other thing is,, I think I you know I take the.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: tiny homes presentation,, which to me was the most effective one that we had and.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, I didn't see as much as of advocacy as I saw.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: an educational approach to begin to thing,, and so I think we definitely don't want to have and there's no way to there's really no way.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: to address you know. Both sides are talking on a certain issue because there's always going to be a multitude of sides,, and so I think the whole notion is you: try to provide some information or insight either from.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, you know people in that industry, tiny homes again be an example.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: or groups that are that are focused on that you know, we had the.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: individual that worked on the actual tiny homes project and in longmont and then.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: from there you know we are.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: specifically, open it up to the public. It's kind of like.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, the sausage factory might not be pretty, but it's you know, comes up with a good end. Result.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, but you know we're open it up for the public to really explore,. You know what the insights are, that are there and at its at its best, that could be.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: very informative for us very useful for council and say: listen people came they attended. They had some real insight to hear that you might not just get when you're just hearing.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: individual speak that are your, you know, from advocacy groups or from industry groups, what have you,, and so I really think just focusing right. Now.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, we can pull our plate for the next six months, easily, focusing on the ones that are that are reflective of what town councils also concentrating on..

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: and you know, that, having a advocacy groups, but having more of an informative presentation and then having a forum for the public to interact with this board.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: to try to get as much information or insight, as we can, and the reporting on that the council,, I think that's our most effective means going forward without question.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:, really interesting idea of them have been providing a forum.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: for rational discussion. We we've done it a few times and had workshops. We registered neighborhood organizations in denver. They ran a panel of developers and.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: people are shocked to find out,. You know extreme example. These got home what people put on the line,, what the developers line to.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: kind of make something happen,, and then we don't reserve,. You know not completely shocked that surprised,. You know what they could have done differently to avoid acrimony.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: simply by listening to a neighbor one, so addiction, and that can be very productive because you know the conversation,. The three minute soundbite planning board and council is very much about scarcity of the way, not productive. Once I feels like the room type of like.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: so,, so they endorse that direction. And.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:, I don't know, is it. We want to.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: take a look at council priorities and think about three things. We can focus on. We've already got one.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: missing middle slash., hab-michael leccese: homeownership over that don't leave it.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: I'd, say right.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: say what you mean: that any.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: you're, still muted oh.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:: how about now.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: yeah, that's great.,.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru:, okay, sorry I'd, say right now we have the one. We have the middle income, one, we we don't have terry here,. Unfortunately, um we have a few.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: a few board members that we don't know yet and so yeah. Let's focus on that middle income one and we might be able to do it, and I think, where we had talked about before was.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: trying to have it live because I just don't see I've probably done 50 public meetings,, for you know, planning commission's and stuff like that,, with work that are.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: zoom and they're just they're, just nowhere nearly as effective as a public forum,. So I think when we talked about us whenever we're alive again,, you know,, then we'll we'll plan to have a listening session on middle income and and maybe take it from there, and when we have.

B

Hab-Danny teodoru: some some more folks, as.

B

hab-danny teodoru: well,, happy few right now,. Then you know we can kind of plan for the next steps,, but I think that's probably the best approach.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: okay, great.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:, I think we're maybe less certain about the in person, and we were two weeks ago, but I'm I'm planning and hoping for the best.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:: what can we do in between now or at our next meeting, to move this idea? Forward.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: well,. I guess I'm wondering if we are.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, if we're leaning towards saying okay, let's have a.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I just want to see if I'm clear, are we leaning towards saying,. If we do a listening session, we will focus on the middle income. Housing is that kind of where we're landing with everybody.

C

Hab-Juliette boone: that sounds good, to me,. I think that makes a lot of sense. I I like the idea of alignment.

C

Hab-Juliette boone: are listening session aligning with with this product problem that we're trying to tackles.

D

Hab-Jacques juilland:, okay, yeah.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I mean,, I think I'd be I'd, be in favor of that. Also, like I like the idea of it,, I guess, the next step, I would suggest, is if we're going to be looking at that.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, what exactly are we trying to? You know accomplish around the middle income piece in a listening, session.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: would be the question,, maybe I don't know michael. Maybe we can each just give our input after the meeting and prior to the next one,, so that we can take a look at at that and kind of start to narrow it down and give it some structure.

C

Hab-Juliette boone: or maybe maybe we need to hear the presentation about the middle income first and then see what would make most sense for a structure, without knowing all the day's going to talk about, and I have to miss the next one,. But I will watch the recording.

D

Hab-Jacques juilland: yeah: that's not a bad idea.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:, I'm sorry,, who would make that you're talking about a presentation just for our board.

C

Hab-Juliette boone: well jay is going to talk about that at the next meeting.

C

hab-juliette boone:. That's the agenda for the next meeting.

C

Hab-Juliette boone:: do you have any comments day, yeah.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: yeah. No, I mean, I think, that's a great approach,. I was going to say exactly what jack did this,. You know, start writing down,. What do you think the purpose should be.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: who's the audience,. What do you hope to accomplish and the earliest that we, in the past they released, we've done that, and the clearest we've been in that written description.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: the mower successful those listening sessions have been so I think it's everything you guys have been talking about and we can add something to the agenda, michael for august afterwards to have sort of a.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: an agenda item that talks about planning a potential listening session around him. Yeah income and missing.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: I'd like to do that planning with everybody on board and that you know shuffled out through subcommittee.

A

Hab-Michael leccese:, you know we're good minds here, and I think we could reach some conclusions about an agenda and how it might work pretty quickly.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: sorry,. I forgot that you were saying jay no offense.

A

and.

C

Hab-Juliette boone: and I'm wondering if, when peter has any comments, because from the planning board perspective in terms of what they have coming up on their plan and and how.

C

Hab-Juliette boone:- maybe she I don't want to put you on the spot, luke peter,, but you might have some ideas about what you think would be useful for us. To.

C

Hab-Juliette boone: to think about., hab-juliette boone: the ways in which we might structure this or do other things as it relates to what you have going. On.

E

Hab-Juliette boone: on your board, well. ex officio lupita d montoya: thank you,. Thank you for giving that chance to speak. Actually, I was listening and agree with you guys all along,. The only thing that I wanted to.

E

Ex officio lupita d, montoya:, add to what jax mentioned was that I like to think of listening sessions, also opportunities to build community it because of basically bring in the groups that are often in swimming.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya: conflict that if we were to approach this,, this is a very important problem that we have identified, and we are coming together and we want to hear from you what.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya:, you know what ideas you might have,. I think the missing middle came up as a as an important problem for our for the planning board. That was one of the.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya: the topics or themes that we included on our annual letter to the to city council, so.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya:, but we haven't been able to do a whole lot in some of the questions I asked was because of that just kind of gathering more information, and recognizing really is this: something that we think is a real problem, or is the city agreeing with us and does anybody have any other possible.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya:, you know ideas that can help us move forward and making progress on solving this one problem.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya: and the format,, I think that you know getting the background, just like we got today, and I know I was in the room, when we did affordable housing.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya: talk,, but I was a weather report,. I was so exhausted that day. I knew the topic so important to me and I can't.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya: for the life of me remember very little of it,, so I was so lucky that I was able to look at this time with a better mind.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya: it's because these are complex topics,, so I think that middle missing middle of something that it will it will pay up for us to understand more from the perspective of what the city is doing,, you know.

E

Ex officio lupita d, montoya: and then, and then get together with a community to see you know where they're coming from and bringing these different sub sections together,. I think.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: the peter can,. Can I ask you.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, as you said, you held planning board, haven't, had a chance to do much specifically around that, but have you had,? I mean some discussions about it and avenues that that you think are you know potential solutions or ways to improve our missing middle condition.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: is, is anything,, is there any kind of discussion or on planning board or consensus or areas of attack,, so to speak for the problem.

E

Ex officio lupita d, montoya: nothing, that is, you know, like well defined,, yet we started with you know. Even getting more background information for our retreat,, we were going to a specific learn more about it,. We got a book.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya:- and we had some initial discussions in some of that even came up like today,, where what is the data that the most reliable data that we have about this problem.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya: and it after julia mentioned,, I said oh yes, yes,, they sarah brought it up to is you know this is like the one source of data we have regarding our computers.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya:, but what we have been able to do with it, nothing really. As far as I can tell a press release, that topic is coming up.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya:, and that to me is promising because more people are becoming more aware of it, and they want to do something so to me, is a putting together,. You know our heads together and including the community.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya: to to look forward. That was why one of my questions we have to do with is there anything that coming down the pipeline that we hadn't consider.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya: from before in terms of potential sources of funding that can help us do something about this particular sector that right now we don't seem to have. You know funds to to really do much. With.

E

Ex officio lupita d montoya:, so that's sort of like what I'm going, you know, to propose,. I think this is a good place and just keep keep at it.

C

Hab-Juliette boone: day will you be covering the down payment assistance, program.

C

Hab-Juliette boone: on your presentation.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: yeah yeah I'll talk about changes that we made to our current program. I can talk about the ballot measure, if you like,, but that's kind of a separate issue.

C

Hab-Juliette boone: well,, just yeah, I mean I know it. It's it's just getting started with implementation right or that's all getting them.

F

Cob-Jay sugnet: not all., hab-juliette boone:, the way. cob-jay sugnet:. He says on hold,, but there are quite a few other things that we're doing to adjust middle income. Ownership.

F

Cob-Jay, sugnet: and I'll cover those so what's outlined in the strategy. What we've accomplished so far,? What we're working on now and what we have to tackle on feature so we'll talk about all that.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: great, I think we've done an excellent job of focusing and particular issue and particular ways of addressing it. If you don't mind, if we could keep moving through the agenda, if no one objects,, we will go on to item, see under number five.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: comedian project liaison reports. We have to folks who worked on the tiny homes.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: report- and I don't know if there any updates but jack and danny if you have anything to add on that, please do so.

A

Hab-Michael leccese: up like recovered the previous meeting.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: all right. hab-jacques juilland:, all right. hab-jacques juilland: shut me off okay.

H

hab-jacques juilland:, I would. hab-jacques juilland: yeah I,. I think that I have I kind of wanted to review a little bit what we were talking about with the eu discussion, to begin with, and then what I've really funnel down to is the piece that I've been looking at.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and I have a sketch of what I think.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: proposed change in our city.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, regs., hab-jacques juilland: would look like and effectively model this, oh after other cities, who have done similar things.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: with variations, of course,, because some are fairly specific, like lions, but albuquerque fresno la so the mobile ad up piece is fairly widespread or it's getting much more widespread,. I should say, and we're seeing adopted in quite a few spots.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I think you know I have expressed before my rationale for thinking that this is something that we should try to do.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, it's a relatively small lift.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, as I see it, from the kind of code related changes that would be needed there. Are.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, you know, in all of these.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: other jurisdictions, where this has been implemented. It's a pretty parallel structure as far as.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: what needs to be dealt with within the code and the first and the biggest piece,, and this is the linchpin of it all really. Is that what occurs, is that mobile at us.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: are made a subcategory or an acceptable category with 80 years. So essentially, that's the piece that.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: really impacts this outside of that. The the building requirements and health and safety requirements are really all already engaged with in existing code,, either through the manufacturer, housing and see standards or through.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: appendix q of the irc, which appendix q deals with tiny owns in general.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, it now are, you know, and it just to put that in perspective,. The reason, this is an issue is because our code specifically requires foundations.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: so.

H

hab-jacques juilland:, that's the one piece, that.

H

hab-jacques juilland: was problematic,, but if you bring in the manufactured housing that foundation pieces also engaged with, and there are foundation and pad requirements. So basically I've put together.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: this proposal,, I can read it off to I'd like to just read it off to everybody. Briefly: it's essentially 12 points.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, that would would be the backbone of this of this change that would allow mobile a to use the first one is just that that we we change the brc so that the mobile ad use an acceptable, and it falls under the umbrella of at us.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: second piece is zoning related it basically or the next color is only related, it's allowable in the same district as a to us. So again, it's just falling under edu policy.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: it has to meet the same zoning regulations as far as height set back coverage on a lot fa. Are.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I personally would propose a.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: special allowance for front yard.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, but I'm sure that that's, something that would be discussed at length further and may not be viable,. But I would suggest it.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and when cited in the front or side yard setback,, this is number four that the undercarriage the wheels the axles the tongue and hit should all be hidden from view. That's a pretty standard, piece.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: in the tiny home, the mobile, tiny, home.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: regs in other jurisdictions, I'm not clear why that should be a part of a regulatory structure,. If this tiny home is not visible from a public street. So if it's an array or yard.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I don't see why that would be a requirement.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I understand it fully for a front yard and a side yard, where it might be visible from the street, so anyway,. Those are again more detail. Pieces.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: number five is kind of this hits the regulatory issues with both pad requirements tie down or foundation requirements are what I call foundation.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and they're not permanent foundations,, and that is that any in any ma, edu or mobile ad you should meet or must meet the nc.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: nflpa, the fire protection and the npc standards, the electric code, standards and again,. Those are common to all the regulatory structures. Number six is,. We also have to meet the appendix q, irc standards.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: number seven,: it must be connected to city, water, wastewater and electric systems.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and number eight has to do with occupancy,. This is another one that I kind of throw out there, I pulled down what these other standards have put in place,. I think it's,, one that is worthy of discussion.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, which has to do with the occupancy limits and they go to for people,, so that no more than four persons may occupy.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: mobile ad you.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: another one to be discussed, is the square footage allowance,. Most of these look break the square footage maximum at about 440.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I'm not sure that that's.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, the only where I land on that one. I've left that in here in my proposal that we stick with a 400 square, foot.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, but I think it's worth having discussion about if we're going to move forward with this further about what that square, footage.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: allowance would be both minimum and maximum.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: then.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: it made us must be cited on concrete or structurally cotton pads and anchor to meet local wind load requirements, nancy standards again that's.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: covered within our rules and regs,, but I think it's just one that people immediately come up with as a concern. So it's worth noting in there that that's going to be those requirements are going to be met.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:: this is one that I've added in I've had some discussions with david lowery.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: our fire marshal about this,, which is that ma the us will not be required to be fire sprinkler and I'm sure there will be, because at us are currently required to have fire sprinklers.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I think it's it's ridiculous to require well in certain cases,. I actually think it's ridiculous to require at us less than 800 square feet, to the fire sprinkler. When we look at what the rationale is for fire sprinkling, a home.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and,, and it basically has to do with time of the grass and firefighting access and when you're talking about a 400 or 500 square foot space,, the egress is very close and the access for firefighting is also very rapid. So.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:. I think it doesn't really make a lot of logical sense,, but we have adopted it.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, and so I would, I would exclude mobile at us,, depending on where we ended up with square footage or mobile ad us beneath a certain square footage from that sprinkle requirement.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: however,. They would be required to have, of course, smoke and co detectors, which is standard code requirements and also working fire extinguisher within the unit.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, that's one that a number of other jurisdictions have pulled in when they've eliminated the fire sprinkler requirement.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and then the other one which I think makes a lot of sense,, and you know I discussed this with david was.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, probably more critical and it's not within the code necessarily already is to require an egress within the sleeping compartment of the eu,, because I think that's the greatest risk from a fire perspective. So those are all.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: aligned, those last ones, are all aligned with kind of the fire. Access and egress concerns around eight years.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: but basically,. If we make an edu a mobile at you and bring it up to the umbrella at us from a zoning perspective.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: the regulatory requirements between the manufacturer, housing rules and our codes already cover all of these other pieces,, including utilities, access and everything else, so,. In some ways, it's not a terribly heavy lift.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: from a from a regulatory standpoint, it's you know,, and I would like to what I propose doing now, with this is essentially giving this outline to the board,, and I will just after this meeting,. If everybody wants. If we agree that you want to see this,, I will present this outline.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and I'll present in a pdf format and I've attached to that pdf format also kind of the supporting documentation from other jurisdictions.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: from the state of colorado and the mobile or the manufactured housing requirements from the state of colorado, which also touch on some of these points so or salient to it. And.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: kind of present that the package for you guys to look at prior to our next meeting,, or maybe the next one after, depending when the agenda, would allow us to look at that and see. If we want to proceed any further down the road with the mobile ad up..

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, so that's kind of where I'm sitting with the at us,. I also have a list of kind of what are the main code related concerns just so that people can be thinking about those as as you're reading, these pieces.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and I'll just finish by saying that's kind of the mobile part which I'd like to. I personally would like to see us kind of take up and make.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: a recommendation to counsel at some point that this might be something that they could engage with relatively easily, and it would provide, I think, some significant benefits. To.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: homeowners, who do not have the financial capability themselves to put in an ad you.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: I'm doing an 800 square foot ad right now I mean I'm doing it. Basically pro bono from my my perspective, as a builder and doing the permitting process and the architectural design.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and it's still going to costs my clients almost $200,000.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: to build this in their yard,, which, for most people is prohibitive in the mobile ad. You allowance would let somebody put in a pad which may cost, no more than 20 to $30,000 and then bring in.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: a unit place it on that which could be owned by someone other than themselves and they could lease the pad out. So it really can open up.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: the financial access point I think for at us. So that's why I'd like to present it other pieces that we looked at under at you stuff I'll break off into that now is we were looking at,? I just have a list of we're kind of,, and this may still apply to the new thing and jay.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, I know that there's an ad you update, review coming up at some point in the future. We don't know when that's going to actually realize self, but you know things that we've talked about or fee relief for people who are trying to get at us in place.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and hab-jacques juilland:, one of the reasons I bring that one up is things that we still, I think, are worthy looking at, probably when we get to what you're doing jay and this mobile ad, you may also be beyond that.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: is because the fearless piece we've seen in other jurisdictions that that is the break, making it financially accessible to people, is where you really start to see an uptick in the adoption of at us.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland: and so, under those things we're looking at fee waivers standard, pre, approved plans,, which you know are utilized in other jurisdictions. I don't know why we can't utilize the air in the city of boulder.

H

Hab-Jacques juilland:, which will greatly decrease people's costs and somehow streamlining the process, so those are all of the parts to that I'll send this out to to everybody, after the meeting,. If you want to see it and we could think about looking at it down the road.

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Hab-Michael leccese: danny, please do send them.

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hab-michael leccese: jack. Can danny go ahead.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: jack I'd love to see it, a.

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hab-danny teodoru: development code nerd. I have drafted tons of myself, too,, so you know that attention to detail of all the different aspects that we'd be wrestling with here is a phenomenal,, but I think this is really going back to the retreat and everything,. This is kind of a.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: midi, sensitive stuff that we talked about that you know you want to try to do that's really on the lines of implementation,, so I think it's great I'm excited to look it over and.

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Hab-Danny teodoru:, you know the avid wants to chat about and if there's any other thoughts or anything on it,. But I think it's a huge first step and I love to see that be something that we can.

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Hab-Danny teodoru:, you know, work on putting together to throw out to counsel and say: hey here's something we can do. Here's how we do it.

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Hab-Danny teodoru:. This is why it's important and and going back to what we talked about before you know. This ties directly.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: to a listening session we had that was that was actually very productive and substantive, and I think from that listen session. That's where we got the inside, or the revelation even that.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: mobile, tiny homes and mobile ad use is a really a.

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Hab-Danny teodoru:, highly profitable and a lot of circumstances, and so to see this coming. You know through to fruition,. I think it's awesome, so thank you.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: all look forward to getting your fine tooth comb into the regulatory piece,, because I see it, from the builder perspective,. You probably see it from a legal perspective that he could marry those two.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, like the way it dovetails with our previous conversation about missing middle, is the us can help. You know people attain or maintain home ownership, obviously.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, I would add, you know. I can't wait to review what you've done,, but that would add that, when we present a council it'd be interesting to present you know, one of the experiences these other communities that have adopted such strategies and ordinances.

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Hab-Michael leccese: has an increase the housing supply for at us and has benefited the homeowners who are providing them the pad, and I woke up. I also had a small technical question: is the sprinkler requirement new because we did our edu in 2017 and we did not have just alarms? Oh interesting, wow.

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Yeah.

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hab-jacques juilland: okay,, maybe I'm in this. subject.

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Hab-Michael leccese: okay.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: well,, I just say yeah, I mean I've, seen sprinkler requirements for large homes,, a lot of codes, but yell at that size yeah you could fit. You can reach anywhere with a fire extinguisher, so yeah yeah. I think the sprinklers things, a good thing and try to avoid.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, so it was five windows and you know you can write about one of them.

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Hab-Michael leccese: exactly on the ground right, away,, but.,.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, we can talk about it more later,, but I mean the main idea behind it, is that these are detached structures,, often above a garage access by an alley.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, and it's just, I think the argument is that it's difficult to get a fire truck back. There were a hose right. So that's why the extra level of precaution, but.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, there are other systems and we can talk about those later too great.

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Hab-Michael leccese: julia. Would you like to talk about ep or age.

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Hab-Juliette boone: yeah efforts so just to quickly let everyone know that the numerous ordinance that was passed, has been adopted and is now referred to as a press, employee or I'm sorry..

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Hab-Juliette boone:, that's rental assistance and.

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Hab-Juliette boone: eviction, eviction, eviction, prevention and rental assistance program, sorry.

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Hab-Juliette boone: anyway,, it's a new acronym, now moved from numerous to address,, so I spent, I just wanted to. Let you guys know that I spent about 10 hours over a couple weeks of time. Helping.

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Hab-Juliette boone: jay allen and karen armstrong and play phone interview, a pool of candidates who were interested in being an attendant advisory committee to to make sure that this program gets implemented..

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Hab-Juliette boone:, as as it was intended. hab-juliette, boone:, they're, all renters. It's a committee of five they'll meet quarterly they're paid a very small stipend, but they're paid to participate, and I just assisted in the.

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Hab-Juliette boone: selection process or the interview process or the initial round, and then a final round of interviews and I felt useful because I interview people for a living. So.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, so I felt I could put my skills to some. Some good volunteer use in that capacity, and it was, it was fun. Productive.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, I hope, jane allen, j and.

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hab-juliette, boone:, j allen and play, and current karen thoughts.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: were. cob-jay sugnet: extremely appreciative. Thank you so much julia and I apologize, it was 10 hours,. When I promise to you is closer to three.

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Hab-Juliette boone:: oh that's all right.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, it wasn't all in one day it was spread out, and I was happy to help.

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Hab-Michael leccese: well,. Thank you. That's kind of its own listening session for you, right.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, so is that chapter closed for you now that people have been selected,, the committee is is doing its work. Sorry to do is work.

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Hab-Juliette boone: well, yeah they've been selected and their first meeting. I I'm not sure if that's been set,, yet they talked about having set sometime in september, october or.

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Hab-Juliette boone: august or september, but there's still a lot of it's such a new program. I don't it's not fully baked and there's,, not even a the first meeting is going to be about what exactly does this board do every every time that needs and how, so I.

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Hab-Juliette boone: would say able to share the perspective of being on a on a volunteer committee, like this one, and what works well, what works less well terms of being effective. So from my own perspective.

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Hab-Jacques juilland: grace. hab-jacques juilland: that this. hab-michael leccese: has been excellent. Thank you. Again.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, sir, I'm always happy to contribute.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, I'm sure we'll be monitoring that program as it continues to evolve anything else on there we go on to the next.

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Agenda and I got.

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Hab-Michael leccese: great jd matters manners from staff,. We need to review.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, I just have for quick updates for you.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: so, one has to do with recruitment. At the mid term recruitment, the council is going to do to fill the two slots. So michael mentioned that I sent the email it goes yesterday. Everybody.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:: please share that with your networks, it'd be great to get some.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: good candidates.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so it's kind of up to us to make sure that the people apply. So that's one number two community benefit for that project,. So I don't know if you were following city. Council.-.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, but currently the community benefit applied specifically to affordable housing. Phase two was supposed to apply to nonprofits.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, as well as human services,, as well as affordable,, commercial and yeah, and basically went through planning board, went to first hearing council and council decided not to pass the second reading and to basically go back to affordable housing being the primary community. Benefit.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: the good news, is.

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cob-jay sugnet: the extent of the range of where applies, we were talking about earlier julia. The map will will set to expire, so fortunately.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, a broader, are, basically the entire city will be are almost the entire city will be eligible for the community benefit provision,, so will be. I've actually been able to see how effective it is as a tool.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: third,, as julie, was saying that the rental assistance is still ramping up that committee, they will meet,. I think the first meeting is going to be late september. Early october.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, but the moratorium expires this weekend. So it's going to be kind of a real test to see.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: you know, is there going to be.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: a tsunami or cliff, or you know,, a surgeon in evictions. We don't really know yet,, but I would say that there's a lot of preparation, that's gone into making sure that we have the staff at the county as well as the city.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: to help distribute the funds,, and we have quite a bit in reserve to help provide those resources so trying to get the word out,. But I wanted you to be aware of it as well,. These are resources to tenants,, as well as to landlords.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and the last piece, has to do with in person meetings. So I don't know if you've been following the council discussion,, they were contemplating going back.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: for a test run.

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cob-jay sugnet: in august,. They have decided to postpone that to.

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Early october.

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cob-jay sugnet:, I think there were concerns about the delta variance.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, so the same direction. Pretty much stands we're going to follow their lead. So once council goes back in person, that'll be our cue to be able to go back into person.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: and there might be some options for hybrid, but all that is still being discussed,. So I just want to let you know that that the conversation is still happening,, but no decisions have been made.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: any questions about any of that I'll get.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: everybody tired.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: yeah.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, I think you just said, thanks. Oh sorry.,.

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Hab-Juliette boone: zoomed out that it's hard to. hab-danny teodoru: pay yeah.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, I have a quick non zoom suggestion. I don't know if it breaks the rules or not,, but I'm.

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Hab-Michael leccese: are we have a boulder committee of my organization and we're going to do a little we're going to do our next meeting in person at diagonal, plaza and just kind of walk through and talk about. What's proposed, there.

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Hab-Michael leccese: the learning opportunity, if that's not considered a meeting in violation of sunshine monitors, I would love to.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, you know, invite everybody to come along and there's to learn,. I imagine we'll have a city official developer, maybe someone else talking about you know. What's what's being discussed, there.

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You're.

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Hab-Michael leccese: still muted.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: oh,. Can you hear me now yeah all right? That's not a meeting you're right,, so we can pull that off.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: so I'd love to know it as a look to see that.

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Hab-Michael, leccese:, okay, I'll just send an invite through cory. Again that won't be as meeting will just be. This will be in the same place will be listening.

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Hab-Michael leccese:- and you know it's not to discuss any particular policy, just to learn about, what's happening there and learn more about the site.

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Hab-Michael leccese: okay, great anything else from jenny, or.

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Hab-Michael leccese: others on the call.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: just add so keep in mind next month. August meeting will be the middle income piece,, but also presenting on the form based code for alpine helpline balsam.

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Hab-Michael leccese: great. cob-jay sugnet:, as well as the comprehensive reasonings in the that will go to planning board september 2 and then council october 5 so.

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Cob-Jay sugnet:, that will be you guys it's up to you guys,, whether or not you want to make a formal recommendation,, but that's that's that'll, be entirely up to you.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: just wanted to give you a preview.

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Hab-Michael leccese: okay, and that's the last thursday in august correct.

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Cob-Jay sugnet: wednesday yes.

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Hab-Michael leccese: wednesday, I'm sorry yeah me too.

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Hab-Juliette boone:, I unfortunately have to miss the next one.

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Hab-Juliette boone: so I,, but I will watch.

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Hab-Michael leccese: okay, do we need a motion to adjourn.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, we got emotion, anyone second.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, all in favor.

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Hab-Michael leccese:, maybe we'll see you,. I think that is the leader. That's going to be august, 11 I'll, send the invite out when I get back from taking a trip tomorrow, but early next week.

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Hab-Michael leccese: and thank you all very thoughtful discussion and we'll be seeing you soon.

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Hab-Juliette boone: thank you, thanks, corey. hab-juliette boone: thanks jay thanks peter thanks michael.

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Hab-Danny teodoru: that. cob-corina marin: thanks have a great night.