City of Boulder, CO OSMP Meetings, 14 Oct 2020

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From YouTube: OSBT Board Meeting - Oct 14, 2020

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OSBT Board Meeting - Oct 14, 2020

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Alison ecklund, cob: okay., and I would just ask if you are from the public, and you know that you're going to be raising your hand to participate. later we will. We will need you to change your.

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Alison ecklund, cob: username to your first and last name, will need a full name and not an email address or a phone number.. I see a lot of those coming in., so I will repeat that message to but wanted to give you a head start.

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Alison ecklund, cob:. Thank you. Jim.

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Curt brown,, osbt: and allison,. Did you want to caution people about the recording.

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Alison ecklund, cob: oh, sure. we'll do that now. Too.

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Alison ecklund, cob:. So if you are a board member or a staff, member presenting tonight. make sure when you're turning your camera on and off that it's your video camera in your little box and not the recording.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, so unfortunately, we all have access to stop and start the recording of this meeting.. So we don't want to accidentally do that so.

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Alison ecklund, cob: just make sure when you're turning your camera on or off that you're not hitting the recording button, which is probably at the very top of your screen. You can see we're recording now with that little red button.

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Curt brown,, osbt: and allison.. I have an indication from dan that he can't unmute.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: oh,, that's why I was pointing to his ears.

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Cob, dan burke: there we go.

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Curt brown, osbt: there we go. alison ecklund, cob:. I think when you came off and you were a co host.

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Cob, dan burke:- I should have been pointing to my mouth right.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I don't know.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, we thought you were still eating. Dinner.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay, allison. do you think we're ready.

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alison ecklund, cob: yep,. We can start curt, brown, osbt: okay,, I'm calling to order the open space board of trustees meeting about october 14 2020 welcome to all who are watching or listening in and participating in the comment. Periods., we appreciate. as always, your patience and your willingness to.

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Curt brown, osbt: continue to track what we're doing and provide input during the coven pandemic and.

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Curt brown, osbt: using these systems that I think we're getting better and better at but still can be a little bit challenging.. So anyway,. Thank you for your participation and your patience as we always do.. I will start with a roll.

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Curt brown, osbt: call so that people who are listening will also know which board members are here. How halston.

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Hal hallstein: president kurt.

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Curt brown, osbt: current hallway here. dave, koontz.

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Curt brown, osbt: here,, caroline miller. yeah.

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Curt brown, osbt: and I'm kurt brown and so leah,. We have a full.

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Curt brown, osbt: quorum of board members tonight.

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Curt brown, osbt: I'm going to start with a quick overview of the agenda,, particularly relating to the options for public comment.. We have two opportunities for public comment: tonight.. The first will be an opportunity for general comments.

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Curt brown, osbt:: this will curt brown, osbt: fall directly after the approval of the minutes and will be for any topic that people want to discuss not related to wunderland lake.

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Curt brown, osbt: the second period for public comment will be specifically on the proposed wondering like isp actions and the possible name. Change.

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Curt brown, osbt: and will follow the staff presentation on those topics,. Just the board have any questions or comments about the agenda, before we go into the rules for the meeting.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay, good. well, curt brown, osbt:. As you folks know, I can see you all., so you can always just raise your hand and and we'll.

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Curt brown, osbt: have you chime, in. okay, at this point, I'll ask allison. Eklund are open space.

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Curt brown, osbt: staff person, who is handling the zoom process and also the public side of process to go over for us. The meeting roles.

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Curt brown, osbt: in the process for signing up allison.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, thanks, kurt.. Let me get those slides up.. We did have a chat already that the window had close to sign up to speak in advance,, but.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, we'll still ask for a raise of hands. and I'll explain how to do that and how to do that.. If you called in by phone.

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Alison ecklund, cob: for both the open public comment section and the wunderland late comments, section., so you're not too late.. That's that will still be offered in a little bit.. Let me share these.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, slides first., so we'll go over because this is a different type of meeting and we're doing it all online.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, we do have some specific guidelines for that., so this meeting has been called to conduct the business of the city of boulder., so activities that disrupt delay or otherwise interfere with a meeting.

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Alison ecklund, cob: are prohibited the time for speaking or asking questions., maybe limited and will kurt will determine what that time is and let us know in a little bit here.

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Alison ecklund, cob: each person shall read. oh,. So you, if you raise your hand and you want to participate., you will need to provide a full name. First and last name.. You can't have.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, whatever your devices labeled, for example, tom's ipad., we won't unmute you for that.. So if you have called in and you would like to participate.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, I can rename your phone number and you can text me your name at 720-576-8593 and I will rename you so phone number won't. Work will need a full name.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, no video will be permitted except by the board members and staff presenting., so anyone participating will be by voice only.

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Alison ecklund, cob: kurt shall enforce these rules by muting. Anyone who violates any of the rules and the chat function is enabled., so you will be able to ask technical questions.

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Alison ecklund, cob: to me and me or leah,, we'll do our best to get back to you. but again,. Those are technical questions only.. So if an attendee.

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Alison ecklund, cob: attempts to use the chat for any other reason we might have to disable that function tonight, and only the host and individuals designated by the host will be permitted to share their screens during this meeting.. So let me go over a few more things.

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Alison ecklund, cob: for the people wishing to participate tonight. If you want, when we get to either the public comments section or the wonder, wunderland lake public hearings, section.. If you want to participate., you can raise your hand, and that is by.

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Alison ecklund, cob:. If you scroll down to the participant box at the bottom of your screen, you will and click on that. open it.. There will be an option at the bottom of that box to raise your hand feature.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, I will go in order of raised hands to call on you. and then, if you've joined by phone,, you can press star nine to raise your hand and then, when it's.

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Alison ecklund, cob: your turn to be unmuted. You would press star six to unmute yourself when it's your time to speak.

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Alison ecklund, cob:. So if you have raised your hand during public comment., I will recognize you in the order that the hands were raised or anyone who has signed up in advance to speak.

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Alison ecklund,, cob: and kurt will, let us know what the time is leah will present or will show her screen with the timer running.

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Alison ecklund, cob: after I haven't unmuted you please say and spell your first and last name and then the timer will start once your comments began. So.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, I will let you know who's up and that you're unmuted. and then who's on deck.. So you can be ready and I'll unmute you when it's your turn.. I think I covered all of that.

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Curt brown, osbt: thank you., allison and jump back in at any time. If you need to.

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Alison ecklund, cob: yeah,, we curt brown, osbt:. We recognize that people may be coming in and still trying to get in and you may need to go over those again. and that's just fine.. So thanks to you for doing all the hard work here and making it a lot easier for us.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,. We will move them to the approval of the minutes.

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Curt brown, osbt:, and these would be the board minutes from our meeting dated sep tember 920 20.

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Curt brown, osbt: does anybody have any proposed changes to anything on? The first page can just raise your hand, karen.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I'm at the very bottom of the first page of the minutes.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I would like to suggest adding.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: asked what staff is doing to increase diversity within the junior ranger program and then add and specifically involve more spanish speakers living in boulder.

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Curt brown, osbt: is that a continuation of the sentence, karen. the way you're, laying it out.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's just an additional phrase. yep.

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curt brown, osbt: yeah, okay., karen hollweg, osbt: continue with and cost for the overall project.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,, so you're proposing to insert right after junior ranger program a couple additional clauses, and would you read them again.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and specifically involve more spanish speakers living in boulder.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: com.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I thought okay yeah.

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Curt brown, osbt:. I thought you had to.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: know,, then the final phrase is already there and the cost of the over for the overall project.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay, any objection to karen's addition. There, raise your hand. otherwise,. I assume that will be okay and will anybody else change on the first page and.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: one other just question the paragraph right above that the second paragraph from the bottom.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: says that will be getting the ag land use assignment guidelines at the november 18 meeting and that got dropped from the calendar.. I wanted to know if that was intentionally or just.

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Cob, dan burke: and I'll be updating the board on that during matters from the department.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: okay., curt brown,, osbt:, thanks. damn. anything else on page one.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,, let's go to page two, and he changed changes or amendments, dave.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah, I'd like to suggest that leah we delete them. The last sentence, under the pair of the last paragraph dave collins, gave an update on the agreements advisory committee.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: and replace that I'd like it to read a little more specifically,. So the this is the suggested language,. The green ways advisory committee recommended to counsel.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: of the 2021 to 2026 greenway civ budget, highlighting the updated the green waste master plan, starting in 2021.

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Curt brown, osbt: did you get that leah.

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Curt brown, osbt:, that's pretty good, dave., I'm gonna. Have you say that once more.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, I'm not sure I can.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. You can see if I actually said what I said: before.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, the green bay's advisory committee recommended to counsel with 2021 to 2026 green ways, tip budget highlighting the updated the green ways, master plan,, starting in 2021.

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Curt brown, osbt: any questions for dave or concerns about that.

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Curt brown, osbt: anything else on page two.

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Curt brown, osbt:. I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes as amended.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, I saw move second, karen hollweg, osbt: second, curt brown, osbt: okay,, I'm going to do a roll call., then about approval of the minutes for september 9. How.

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Curt brown, osbt: karen.

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Curt brown, osbt:, yes, dave.

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Curt brown, osbt: yes, caroline. yes. and I vote yes, so we are unanimous on that. leah. Thank you very much..

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,. So now we're going to go to public comment for items on zen fight for public hearing and I will just say a word. before we start,.

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Curt brown, osbt: we've gotten notification from the city manager to all the boards,, including the city council, to please be attentive to ensuring that all of our public meetings.

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Curt brown, osbt:, where there's public public participation that we follow the rules of civil discourse.

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Curt brown, osbt: there have been some very challenging issues in front of council and maybe.

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Curt brown, osbt: several the other boards, the last few months and.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I think members of council city manager have noticed that there's been a lapse from using civil discourse in several of those instances and wants us to make sure that we.

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Curt brown, osbt: remind people., and I think, for this board for our board. we've gotten a great deal of public testimony. and almost without exception..

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Curt brown, osbt:, the public has been extremely courteous about how they've shared things,, even when they were very serious issues and about which they felt strongly, and we just want to continue that tradition here.. So I just want to pass it along. before we start,.

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Curt brown, osbt: allison, how many total people do we have attending the meeting,? Would you guess.

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Alison ecklund, cob: well 35, but that's with staff.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, okay, yes.

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Curt brown, osbt: 2025, roughly.

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Alison ecklund,, cob: or less.

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Curt brown,, osbt: okay., and so how many folks you have signed up for general comment right, now.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, it looks like we have one signed up in advance and then for more have raised their hands now, so I'm assuming they all want the general comment.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,. Well, we can check us. We go curt, brown,, osbt: well,. I will curt brown, osbt:, then say, we'll do three minutes for each commenter,. If you would.

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Alison ecklund, cob: sounds good., so we'll start with raymond bridge.. I will unmute you now and then. lynn, siegel.

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Alison ecklund, cob: yeah.

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Alison ecklund, cob: thank you.

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Alison ecklund, cob: lynn sega will be.

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Alison ecklund,, cob:, okay, re.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I'm not seeing the timer.

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Raymond bridge: good evening, trustees., I'm raymond bridge for 35, so 38 street in boulder, and I'd like to speak briefly on the proposed alvarado canyon to walker ranch trail., as you know,. The most recent document on this effort was the so called feasibility study.

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Raymond bridge: somebody is.

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Raymond bridge: ok,, as you know,, the most recent document on this effort, was the so called feasibility study of november.

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Raymond bridge:, that document contained a conceptual trail alignment that would cut dozens of switchbacks through the mount western mountain parks, habitat conservation, area.

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Raymond bridge:, which I contend, would have major deleterious environmental impact, know analysis of potential ecological impact was included and none has been done since, unfortunately, we did not take advantage of the delay to do such a study in mid.

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Raymond bridge: cpw into initiated a delay of consideration of this trail, while it develop the visitor use master plan for eldorado spring state park.

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Raymond bridge: I've been informed by a senior planner at cpw that a draft of the wii- u mp, has been completed and then it will be presented at the november meeting of the wildlife commission.-.

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Raymond bridge:, which is scheduled for november 19 to 20th, and she can expect that there will be lots of pressure to move forward on this issue.

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Raymond bridge:. I hope that you will not give consideration danny, we're going for the western mountain arcs hca until a thorough ecological impact study has been done.

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Raymond bridge: and since no effort has been made to conduct one during the cpw initiated display., I would contend that you should not permit any shortcuts because of time. Factor.

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Raymond bridge: remember that hca are established to protect our most valuable and sensitive resources.. Thank you.

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Curt brown, osbt: thank you. right.

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Alison ecklund, cob: up next, we have lynn siegel.. We also have marquis here. If marquis can change.

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Alison ecklund, cob: how that name appears to a first and last name will need you to do that before we can unmute you.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, but for now I am unmute being.

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Alison ecklund, cob: live.

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Lynn, segal: I'd like to see.

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Lynn, segal: how this habitat on the cell folder.

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curt, brown, osbt: me.. When would you just start by saying your name and address or city.

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Lynn segal:, when seagull 538 during folder, like, see how bad.

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Lynn, segal: the habitat and the south,. All the floodplain and see yourself is actually being affected by the libyan and any changes with the upstream detention.

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Lynn, segal: program., that's proposed and and with any past.

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Lynn, segal: proposals that have happened and the differences and have it kind of clearly spelled out like visually works, really well for me,, but then I'm an ultra cinematographer. So I tend to be visual and,, but I think it works for a lot of people and.

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Lynn segal: because it's unclear in my mind. and what is going on with the potential land swap or or disposal of open space of their land and how? What how the vm is going to affect those creatures and those.

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Lynn segal: plants that are in that area., it's just not clear to me and and.

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Lynn, segal:, I think it's kind of important.. My sense is that alternative six, that keeping the stream in the stream, not having any unnatural detention and ponds or or.

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Lynn segal: dams is, is the best option, in spite of the fact that it might affect some of the habitat or some of the.

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Lynn, segal: the plants in the area. and because it's.

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Lynn, segal: the,, the approach are happening.. Damn is going to be more significant on those resources, then,. Then a natural libyan and I'd like to see how visually.

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Lynn, segal: from the open space board of trustees and because this seems to be a big issue with see you south and.

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Lynn segal: their proposal for the campus and, along with everything else, that's going into what the transportation and the other aspects of it,. But it's unclear to me about the open space and the resource of the plants and animals in in the in the pathway of whatever gets done in that area.. So.

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Lynn segal:, I just appreciate being able to see that better and so far as I'm spending a lot of time talking at the beginning of these meetings,, I find it rather intimidating that.

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Lynn, segal: that this this never happened. live and now, just because we're virtual this, we have to have this intimidating statements made that we're here for the purpose of good things, and you can't say anything bad. and that's kind of understood with city meetings, and I just find it rather intimidating.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, thanks. bye.

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Curt brown, osbt: thank you. thanks. slip.

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Alison ecklund, cob: okay,. We have margaret,, I'm so sorry.. I'm going to share your last name.

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Alison ecklund, cob: and I'm unmuted you now and then next step will have jim mcmillan.

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Margaret lecompte: am., I am.- I am I unmuted now listen.

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Curt brown, osbt: yes,. We can hear you.

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margaret lecompte: okay, thank you. and thank you for fixing my name, um,.

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Margaret lecompte:, I wanted to give a warm market like comped and my nickname is marcie and I live it to 90. Putney drive in boulder.

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Margaret lecompte: I'm,, I'm here to, first of all,, give a big thank you and a shout out to the open space board of trustees for spending so much time to ensure the protection of our open space and to the. In the following. The mission of the open space and mountain parks.

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Margaret lecompte: agency, in particular, I.

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Margaret lecompte: want to thank you for protecting our open space from being treated like a piggy bank of land that is sort of expendable or tradable out whenever there is an emergency or needed.

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Margaret lecompte:, this open space is irretrievable and once it's gone,, it's gone forever.. So I am extremely grateful to the open space board of trustees for being so scrupulous about protecting it.

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Margaret lecompte:, I also want to acknowledge how much hard work. the city, the open space board of trustees, has done and getting the city staff to finally consider seriously.

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Margaret lecompte: upstream flood mitigation strategies that might will probably protect open space and endangered species far better than the current flood mitigation projects that are being considered.

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Margaret lecompte:, I'm also margaret lecompte:, happy that they open space board of trustees is pushing the city staff.

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Margaret lecompte: to reveal what the permitting requirements are for the men from the many local, state, and federal agencies for the extensive flood mitigation infrastructure. That's now being considered.

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Margaret lecompte: by the city utilities department. these could pose insurmountable obstacles to flood mitigation. That would impede any kind of protection for downstream citizens.

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Margaret lecompte:, we would, it would be very well to know about these now, so that necessary plans could be made to accommodate to them before the city,, except a plan that cannot be implemented. thanks very much.

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Curt brown, osbt: thanks marquis.

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Alison ecklund, cob: okay, jim., I am going to unmute you. and then last will have robert sharp.

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Jim mcmillan:, all right., my name is jim mcmillan was verifying that you can hear me. yes.

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Jim mcmillan: yes. great, thank you.. I live at 1277, eight kingsway boulder.

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Jim mcmillan: and I want to support the comments of the previous speakers, lynn and mark.

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Jim mcmillan: and and I'll bring in.

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Jim mcmillan: a little bit more emphasis on what I consider, I'm really speaking to the flood mitigation.

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Jim mcmillan: design and the fact that currently, it's being green lighted on 100 year, flood mitigation 100 year, flood, mitigating that and I think, in light of climate change. That is just pure folly, it's,. It's a bandaid for a broken arm or something like that.. It's insufficient and.

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Jim mcmillan: we're likely very likely to have much bigger storms than that, and so do risking all this damage of the state protected. Area.

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Jim mcmillan: and this this ecosystem, this precious ecosystem, habitat that is you're replaceable as mark, you mentioned.

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Jim mcmillan:, it's being put at risk by an inadequate flood design that will require further efforts later to correct the deficiencies.. If it goes forward, based on 100 year,, it should be 500 year, and so I I.

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Jim mcmillan: would like the open space board of trustees to consider the fact that what is being planned and offered is insufficient and likely require. We rework.

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Jim mcmillan:, the second issue is the jeopardy that this this high hazard, construction. a floodwall and so forth, going down to bedrock, would have on the viability of the wet meadow habitat with it's rather unique. Hydrology.

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Jim mcmillan: and I wanted to jim mcmillan:, encourage the open space board of trustees to really examine and drill and drill in on what has been done in terms of due diligence.

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Jim mcmillan:, to verify that the engineered water conveyance- that's that's- been theorized and discussed- is being able to allow the groundwater flows to continue.

K

Jim mcmillan:, even in the presence of the large floodwall on that they'll, actually work. and as we've heard in previous os bt meetings.

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Jim mcmillan:, you know, these types of habitats., once they're messed around with they're, not able to be restored,, or at least we haven't, figured out how to do that. Yet.

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Jim mcmillan: it's,, it's really mother, nature's finest creations that these things work and are so robust and stable..

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Jim mcmillan: and it's something to be treasured. It's it's a beautiful gateway to boulder coming in from denver and we're jeopardizing.

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Jim mcmillan:, the long term viability of it with this construction project and open space board of trustees is, is really the last man standing.

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Jim mcmillan:, in terms of having some integrity, to really make sure that what we're doing will be effective.. So I want to thank you for your efforts to date and continue to be vigilant in looking out for the viability of the boulder valley, eco shed.. Thank you very much for your time and attention.

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Curt brown, osbt:. Thank you. Jim.

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Alison ecklund, cob: okay. and then our last speaker for the general public comment is robert sharp and robert I'm muting. You now.

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Alison ecklund, cob: okay.

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Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: ready.

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Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: yes. okay., I'm robert charged 5995 marshall.

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Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: drive folder and thank you for listening and thank you for the work that you do.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com:, I gilbert white., the most famous blood world class expert on time resident of boulder adamantly said toward the end of his career. forget about hundred year flood plain planning.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: 500 is what is needed, and that might not be adequate., but go for 500. I'm here to talk about marshall, mesa, though,, and I'm here to ask you for to consider a pause. few months,, at least in the trail work being done yet to be done. On marshall, mason.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: mason,, as you know,, are extremely rare and unique in the county. Only four or five of them, each one of them's, very different, each each side and face very different and very unique, interesting.

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Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: I,, I wonder if we can reaffirm some of the basic values of people in an open space and and grapple a little with some of the vast difference.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: a lot of people, robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com:, compare nature to the face and body of a human being loved one.. It's that precious or for a work of art,, you know,, and we we have land, we have famous landscape part and the best museums in the world.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: and then there's the ecosystem,. You know, all of the rich variety of life, of every kind in the soil, itself. the,, the historic landscape,, the historic features or uses that have been there. Such a such a rich tapestry and.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com:, I have had a particular love for marshall mesa having known from, you know, for over 60 years and seeing it daily for over 30.

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Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: years ago,, a trail was suddenly cut across the mesa from the middle to the east to 68 street,, and it was a horrific event for me. and of course it was for recreation and recreation continues to push over other other values when that trail was finally done. but open. Space.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: some board members and staff. promise me in particular that that was it., no more trails,, no more,, that kind of stuff on marshall mesa. Yet suddenly, few weeks, ago, a 2000 foot swath was cut across the mesa to replace the historic route which had been neglected.

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Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com:, you know, to the point of danger and now that's to be restored,, but the restoration plan is not that it's a it's foreign material.. It's not not a restoration, job.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: I'd like to be involved. I'd like to have a pause for some consultation about this.. I feel, like my loved one, has been slashed and beaten in front of my face.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: and is left to the body is left for me to look at every day, here.. It's that it's that kind of feeling that some of us have for the value of these places. and I'm really honored.

L

Curt brown, osbt: thank you.. We robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: give a chance to do something better over there.. Thank you.

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Curt brown, osbt:, thank you for your thoughts.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, that's all we have. kurt.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,, thanks for managing that allison.

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Curt brown, osbt: dan,. I think it then comes to you for the wunderland, like issues.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, thank you. curt, and this will be a public hearings.. So if some of the folks didn't get called during general,, it's because you'd likely signed up for public comment on this particular public hearing issue,, which we'll dive into now.

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Cob, dan, burke: and so,, as most of you know this two year effort is, is winding down and culminating before you tonight with a.

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Cob, dan burke: preferred package of actions for the wonders of the lake area. That staff is providing you as,, as well as an additional issue that came about.

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Cob, dan burke: a year or so ago., and that was a request from to the city manager from the community on a proposed name change for wonder the lake,, which will also be a topic of tonight's conversation. and so with that,. I would like to.

D

Cob, dan burke:, open space, mountain parks, senior planner, casey friend. She will provide you with a presentation and then I believe after the presentation will go into the public hearing and then board deliberation.

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Kacey french, cob: hey, thanks, dan. kacey french, cob:, I'm going to pull up my presentation, here, bear with me for just one second.

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Kacey french, cob:: can you see the presentation.

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Curt brown, osbt: yes.

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Kacey french, cob: yes. great, thank you., so thanks, dan., casey, french and I'm here to present to you tonight on the one like and graded site, project.

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Kacey french, cob: tonight's purpose is to conclude the engagement process with the community, and your vice presidents all describes the resulting preferred package of actions.

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Kacey french, cob: and request a board recommendation to proceed into work, planning and implementation and request. The board also make a recommendation to the city manager regarding the name, change, proposal.,.

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Kacey french, cob: just a quick reminder on the purpose of the isp process. With this isp, we are starting from the osb t and council poop guidance in the north tsa.

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Kacey french, cob: and the isp focuses on coordinating the multiple implementation efforts, such as trails, interpretive restoration and trailhead, and access types of projects and planning for those projects at a finer, scale.

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Kacey french, cob:. The idea is to holistically plan for an area and to have as much as possible alignment across the community about the on the ground actions before before an area before proceeding to the implementation or the construction phase.

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Kacey french, cob:, so the engagement for this project began in the fall of 2018, but due to community concerns., it was paused. Any new process was developed.

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Kacey french, cob: there were three community engagement windows in the redesign process and all of which have influenced and shaped the preferred package of actions that we will be presenting this evening.

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Kacey french, cob:, when jim kacey french, cob: stuff restarted the community engagement with the first engagement window by setting the context and I'm asking the community to share ideas for on the ground. Actions.

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Kacey french, cob: related to meeting the goals of the area and approximately 108 community members attended the meetings and an additional 162 community members completed the online exercise and a total of approximately 1500 comments or ideas were shared.

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Kacey french, cob: stuff sorted the ideas shared and we did all of the matrix of options on this, took the form of a questionnaire where community members reviewed the ideas or actions and indicated,, which ones they supported or not..

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Kacey french, cob: 728 community members participated engagement, window. number two last december.

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Kacey french, cob:, so from engagement, number window window. number two,. We heard support for more limited improvements that are better fit with the character of wonder lake.

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Kacey french, cob: on this included support for actions related to shoreline and habitat restoration conservation and protections lake health, repairing trails.

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Kacey french, cob: improve fishing delineation access, unlimited trail amenities, trailhead amenities such as bike, racks, public restrooms and a water film.

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Kacey french, cob:. We also heard that from any existing conditions were adequate and there was not support for actions related to additional trail side. Structures such as birth blinds picnic tables, benches, or other trail modifications.

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Kacey french, cob: major improvements focused on accessibility or other additional amenities that are useless near the foothills nature. Center.

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Kacey french, cob:. We incorporated this feedback into the preliminary package of actions which which had significantly less changed in the previous 2018 concepts.

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Kacey french, cob: it had minimal infrastructure and with much remaining the same or similar to current conditions.. The actions were focused on providing visitor amenities with community support.

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Kacey french, cob:, those that provide equitable access and support interest across the community and those that need osm peace, operational needs.

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Kacey french, cob: it just as a reminder,, the pier and the boardwalk.. They were previously moved from removed from consideration as well as waiting,, which has since been determined to be infeasible.

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Kacey french, cob:. The waiting decision was made in light of the possibility of harmful algae blooms at lakes and ponds across the city in colorado.. So you wonder,, the lake.

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Kacey french, cob:, so we presented the preliminary package of actions to the community engagement window number three in an online video presentation. This summer.

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Kacey french, cob: community members were invited to participate in a questionnaire aimed at gauging the level of support for the proposed actions and 320 community members participated.

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Kacey french, cob:, the majority of engaged community members, indicated a level of support for the actions proposed with support and somewhat support between 81% and 64% for the various actions.

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Kacey french, cob:, based on this community input staff affirmed. most of the actions in the preliminary package of actions as desirable and made modern.

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Kacey french, cob:, minor modification., so focusing on addressing community comments and concerns and I'll go over the preferred package of actions and how it was modified in the upcoming sites.

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Kacey french, cob:, so the preferred package of actions has been organized into the 16th that we've used throughout this process show here.

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Kacey french, cob:. I will start with what london shoreline, habitat and wildlife conservation and protection on the northwest and south sides blake.

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Kacey french, cob: as a reminder,, the actions were sorted into operational needs, an isp actions for community input during engagement, window. number three,, as shown here., I know modifications are made, are suggested in response to engagement, window. number three,, with 81% of participants supporting the action.

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Kacey french, cob: operational isp actions,, including asking a regulatory closure to the no public access area with complimentary, fencing and limited science.

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Kacey french, cob:, prohibiting boats and belly votes and relocating the existing southwest access point or adding a vehicle turn around spot.

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Kacey french, cob: the pros action which,, for which we saw additional community input, was to add down trees or logs to the lake to add more structure and improve fish in amphibian habitat.

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Kacey french, cob: around your the know. Public access area is the hatch area around the lake,. A regulatory closure will be enacted and supported by filling in the fencing gaps and adding limited science.

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Kacey french, cob:, I'm operationally, and specifically for enforcement. Reasons. it's really necessary for formal regulatory closures to be clearly,, clearly marked.

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Kacey french, cob: isp action, number 17, which is to add interpretive signs with messaging about the value of wetlands in shoreline habitat, to convey the ecological values of the shoreline is also meant to complement this isp action and I'll speak to that. A little bit later. On. again, and in this presentation.

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Kacey french, cob:, so currently, the trucks that are needed to service the existing southwest access, point.

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Kacey french, cob: have don't have a great place to turn around and wetlands could potentially be damaged.. So in order to eliminate the need to drive along the trail and turn around your wetlands,, we are investigating relocating the access point further south.

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Kacey french, cob:, and this proposed new location is on parks and recreations land. So more coordination and agreement is necessary.. So if that is determined not to be possible,, then we would.

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Kacey french, cob: add a vehicle ternary on spot to better delineate or service vehicle should turn around to avoid damaging wetlands.

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Kacey french, cob:, the productivity belly boats protects the lake and sensitive shoreline and in light of the possibility of harmful algae blooms, water accesses infeasible.

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Kacey french, cob:, adding structures, the lake,, such as the logs, will not have any visual impact to the area,, but it can improve aquatic habitat at know to a very low cost.

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Kacey french, cob: moving on to access to the area.

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Kacey french, cob: the isp actions related to this theme or all operational, and include continued coordination with the city's transportation department to create a safe and visible crosswalk.. It does like needing to additional access, points.

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Kacey french, cob:. We began our coordination with the transportation department and this action involves assessing the site relative to transportation standard which informs the preferred treatment. Method.

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Kacey french, cob: and the to access points are already acting as such, with community members using them to enter the area in with existing access point infrastructure.

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Kacey french, cob:, oh snp, does have an operational need to formalize these access points into designate them so that they enter in our departments. Asset inventory and maintained properly.

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Kacey french, cob: moving on to trail and trail site improvements are, the only is the action is operational and is to bring trails up to accessible standards as feasible.

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Kacey french, cob:, bringing trails up to accessible standards will improve the current condition of the trail and fix the muddy and reddit sections.

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Kacey french, cob: it will improve trail sustainability and support current and anticipated future use with minimal maintenance.

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Kacey french, cob:, bringing trails up to accessible standards includes reducing grades and steeper locations,, improving the surface of the trails with crushed raw materials. Like my question things and maintaining and established with.

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Kacey french, cob:, most challenging sexual trail is just at the north east structure. This section of trail is challenging, challenging due to the steep grades and the interconnectedness with the dam spillway infrastructure.

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Kacey french, cob:, the design solutions must be compatible with the safety requirements and those will be explored during the implementation. Phase.

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Kacey french, cob: and include grading and rerouting and getting as close as possible to meeting standards and well standards may not be able to be met in this area,. It will be made more accessible and without major trail. Infrastructure.

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Kacey french, cob:, this actually bringing trails up to accessible standards as feasible, is also one of the primary ways we are meeting the educational goals.

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Kacey french, cob: awesome.. He has a long history of leading accessible oriented heights hikes in this area.

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Kacey french, cob: and they bring you. The trails up to accessibility standards is feasible, is needed for us and p to continue to offer this programming.

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Kacey french, cob: much of the trail system already needs, are closely needs. This standard. and in addition, wonder the lake provides a really unique opportunity for accessibility. when looking across the system.

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Kacey french, cob:, moving on to access to conservation of activities on the east side of one of them make along the dam and peninsula.

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Kacey french, cob:, the operational isp actions include updating the regulatory signs and to the sentencing to prevent people from cutting across the spillway.

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Kacey french, cob:. The other actions for which we saw additional feedback on include the fishing access points from the trail down to the water's edge along the damn, restoring peninsula habitat and.

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Kacey french, cob: and restoring the shoreline along the peninsula.. There are also two actions related to activities and they are to allow ice skating and to continue to prohibit a sledding.

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Kacey french, cob: the yellow ribbon here, notes, an action with the community feedback that we wanted to address.

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Kacey french, cob: in response to listening to the overall sentiment. Less is more.. The number of fishing access paths have been reduced from two to 3212 to this action had 77% support and 23% the participants who did not support it.

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Kacey french, cob:, this isp operational action recommend spend seen in the highlighted area to discourage public access across the spillway. There's a desire to keep people away from an off of damn infrastructure.

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Kacey french, cob: at the peninsula, habitat restoration, areas, shown here, would be supported with fencing restoration, area. one is for the most part, existing.

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Kacey french, cob:, with the existing fencing and current restoration successes. As far as reduction of social tape, trails and areas, denuded vegetation.

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Kacey french, cob:. There are a few places where fencing could be filled in,, especially as it integrates with any future shoreline. Work.

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Kacey french, cob:, but the intent here in this restoration area. number one is to continue building off of the current success and it's mostly just maintaining.

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Kacey french, cob: current conditions, restoration area number two has areas that are currently denuded vegetation, and this represents better opportunities for vegetation enhancements or restoration in the isp.

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Kacey french, cob:, this area is currently not fenced, and this portion of the isp action consists of adding the fencing and seating for native grasses and forbes,, with a focus on pollinator habitat.

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Kacey french, cob:, the shoreline restoration, is focused on managing erosion, into the lake,, improving habitat and providing a waterfront visitor experience that discourages waiting.

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Kacey french, cob: at the shoreline vegetation restoration areas are shown here with the cross hatching and are supported with fencing and then the shoreline, stabilization or water. Viewing areas are interspersed between the prevented, heated, areas.

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Kacey french, cob:, the shoreline stabilization areas or water. Viewing areas are located in the area that currently reminds one of the beach with they gently slipping sandy shore.

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Kacey french, cob:. The proposal is to explore recreating and using rocks to create a steeper and rocky or shoreline.

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Kacey french, cob:. This concept recognizes the enjoyable experience of standing at the water's edge., so as much as possible retain that proximity to water and waterfront experience.

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Kacey french, cob:, it also provides an accessible fishing. Opportunity, might have a having natural and rather feel while discouraging leading.

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Kacey french, cob: the shoreline restoration as a whole, with the intersperse vegetation,, as I said, is aimed at minimizing erosion and improving aquatic and like health, while providing an enjoyable, visitor, experience.

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Kacey french, cob:, the next isp action is to construct one to two fishing access paths consisting of rocky steps from the wunderland like trail down to the water's edge on the damn.

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Kacey french, cob:, a fishing would still be available along the whole damn, but this improves accessibility, better defines fishing access areas and generally concentrate access to primary pads,. But with minimal development.

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Kacey french, cob:, and what the north tsa recommends. An area along the dam for sledding upon further investigation is safe. Location could not be identified., so sledding will continue to be a lot of chautauqua.

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Kacey french, cob:- I did was a recently approved gun barrel through that isp process., I'm in other locations in the system may be identified in future planning. Efforts.

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Kacey french, cob: in regards to a scheme,. The goal in the north tsa is to create consistent, visitor regulations and increase safety.

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Kacey french,, cob: and again after further investigation into city, wide practice and policy on ice skating and other likes in the city.

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Kacey french, cob: allowing ice skating at visitors own risk with specific warning signs as more consistent.

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Kacey french, cob:, so given the types of activities which are allowed only under certain specific conditions and the safety concerns with harmful algae, blooms.,.

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Kacey french, cob: and, along with the current confusion about where some activities are currently allowed., um,, there's just an operational need for the department to update the outdated regulatory signs to make it clear to visitors. what is allowed,. Where and not.

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Kacey french, cob:, moving on to educational experiences in interpretive science.

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Kacey french, cob:, the proposed actions are adding interpretive signs with messaging about the value of wetlands and shoreline habitat and adding temporary educational signs on the peninsula. About and during the restoration.

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Kacey french, cob: is the action number 17, which is adding the interpretive signs with the messaging about the value of wetlands and shoreline. Habitat had 78% support and also had comments.

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Kacey french, cob: on from engagement window three that we wanted to ensure responsive to., so the main reason that some participants did not support. This action was not wanting to see more signs on the landscape.

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Kacey french, cob: staff acknowledges that signs across the isp need updating.

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Kacey french, cob: and a comprehensive effort to consolidate and coordinate signs across the isp is part of the preferred package and actions., so listen, be, will be responsive.

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Kacey french, cob: to the concern through further consideration of the number and placement of signs.

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Kacey french, cob:, this action, however, remains in the preferred package of actions.. Now I do to the added value interpretive science for by.

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Kacey french, cob: on to increase visitor awareness and appreciation of the valuable and sensitive shoreline habitat and support is section one which was to a better to find the notepad. No public access, area.

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Kacey french,, cob: and lastly,, and additionally, these interpretive science., they could be an integral component of implementing potential, maintains options wanting to under consideration.

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Kacey french, cob: and so any recommendation to modify the interpretive sign. Isp actions are suggested to be made in coordination with the name, change, recommendation.

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Kacey french, cob: or the interpretive signs would be similar to other interpretive signs across the lens and p system and we have local artwork.

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Kacey french, cob: and moving on to the wonder the lake trailhead and foothills nature center and facilities improvements.

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Kacey french, cob:, the operational isp actions are to renovate the foothills nature center within the existing footprint.. A minor reconfiguration of the parking lot and replacing the visitor kiosk and signs.

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Kacey french, cob:, the isp action for which we obtained additional feedback on include installing bike racks at any public restroom and water fountain, and providing a small trail site gathering area.

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Kacey french, cob: in response to community feedback,, the potential water fountain has been removed from the preferred package of actions, providing restrooms for public use for main in the preferred package of actions.

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Kacey french, cob:: this is because a restroom or facility is typically provided and considered a standard facility to provide it. Osm p, you know pr zero s. Amp p trail had standards, a trail heads with high levels of visitation,, such as when you have a lake.

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Kacey french, cob: and the majority participants did supported at 69% and anecdotally staff consistently reported visitors, frequently inquiring about a bathroom.

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Kacey french, cob:. This action is aimed at providing equitable comfort and access for visitors who live in other areas.

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Kacey french, cob: and the community concerns we heard regarding attracting illegal activities such as encampments and health concerns such as drug use, vandalism and litter, and not attracting visitors that are not interested in passively record..

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Kacey french, cob: and these concerns can be addressed through design features,, along with maintenance and operational protocols., an example of an operational protocol.

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Kacey french, cob: would be limiting the hours that facility is open and having it closed from dusk, to dawn,, either through walking services or by automatic locks to prevent overnight use and focused ranger patrol.

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Kacey french, cob: and over the past decade, rangers have reported. Only eight instances are related to legal camping outlander make.

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Kacey french, cob: and although, in order to be responsive to these concerns, the water fountain was removed from the preferred package of actions. I did, as it's considered an optional amenity.

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Kacey french, cob:, while I used trail heads, will a bathroom is a standard, facility. and lastly,. The plan updates at the foothills nature center on do include installing plump facilities to better support, ongoing.

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Kacey french, cob:, osm, p staff operations., that's reducing the cost of potentially providing a restroom facilities to the public.

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Kacey french, cob: for the minor parking lot reconfiguration other is it operational need to make some very minor changes to maintain and improve operational efficiencies.

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Kacey french, cob:, a no parking spaces would be added,, but we would reconfigure to allow for better snow removal, among other maintenance needs and improved eat grass and ingress,, including four buses.

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Kacey french, cob: operationally,. The department aims to keep the trailhead infrastructure, such as the kiosk up to industry standards and provide visitors with the information they need. at the start of their adventure.

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Kacey french, cob:, so we listened to the previous community feedback and we have scaled back to cover just what is operationally needed and there's just not more room for scaling back without compromising operational efficiencies and standards..

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Kacey french,, cob: and again, with the foothills nature center we've scaled back to meet the minimum needs for operations.. We will renovate the foothills nature center within the existing footprint.

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Kacey french, cob: to meet the junior ranger programmatic, needs,, um, however, in order to stay within the footprint shade, would need to be provided within the operational area.

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Kacey french, cob: and the shade structure or,, more likely, she'd sales will be added to just west of the foothills nature center for junior ranger and other group gathering areas.

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Kacey french, cob: buses for educational programming will use the operational area between the foothills nature center and outbuilding for parking and turn around.

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Kacey french,, cob: and there's also an operational need to add bathrooms and really use the site and general footprint of the existing shed on that's just west of the foothills nature center to add from facilities.

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Kacey french, cob: additional actions proposed include a small group gathering area with shade trees and rocks through ad hoc seating and.

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Kacey french, cob: in this general area near the plumbing, is the most feasible.

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kacey french, cob: area to add, shade trees and that's the additional bike. Racks are proposed to be added to the trailhead kiosk area.

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Kacey french, cob:. So as far as level of development.- this is an aerial view of the existing foothills nature center and trailhead.

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Kacey french, cob:, and here is what will be added to the site.. It consists of shade sales within the operational area, a restroom., a small restroom, footpath or access and and change of use in that existing building.

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Kacey french, cob: and he trail pull out with rocks using the existing shade trees, which may be supplemented with others and an updated key, as can signs and bike racks near the trail head. So much of the exterior means the same and with the same operational uses inside the existing structures.

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Kacey french, cob:, so moving on from the preferred package of isp actions and into the proposed name change from one dylan make to one to then make wildlife sanctuary.

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Kacey french, cob:, so this topic stems from always empty staff are moving outdated, signage,, which I use the term wildlife sanctuary in early 2019, and this was a part of ongoing efforts to remove update.

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Kacey french, cob: or replace updated science across the snp system.

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Kacey french, cob: in response, community organizers, assembled and submitted a petition to the city manager. Does this standard process for which the city considers the name changes.

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Kacey french, cob: and the request was to meaning the area., the wunderland make wildlife sanctuary and as an early 2020, the petition had around 900 signatures and the city manager requested. This topic be included in the isp process.

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Kacey french, cob:, so we did. and we asked community members engagement, window. number two, how much they agreed or disagreed with a potential name. Change.

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Kacey french, cob: and we noted that would not have effect on how the areas manage or change the management area designations, it is. You can see 57% strongly agreed or agreed.

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Kacey french, cob:, so just as a reminder,, if the area where to be renamed.

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Kacey french, cob: wunderland, the wildlife sanctuary,, it would have no regulatory meaning and it would not affect her influence us mts, management.

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Kacey french, cob:, the term wildlife sanctuary is not defined by are associated with any of us. Mts management area, designations.

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Kacey french,, cob: and also these management area designations were defined in the board and council approved visitor master plan and are listed here.

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Kacey french, cob:, and these provide guidance on where and how visitor services can be provided, while protecting resources and wondering like is designated as a passive recreation. Area.

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Kacey french,, cob: and among the goals of passive recreation areas are to provide a high level of public access, maintain or improve recreational and educational opportunities, while protecting and preserving resources and accommodate high levels of visitor use with appropriate infrastructure and services.

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Kacey french, cob:, so in response to the input from engagement, window. number two,, which was with a little over half of participants, agreeing with the potential name change.

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Kacey french, cob: staff develop three main change. Options of the three options are no main change. The name change applying to the closure area around the lake.

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Kacey french, cob: and the name change applying to the entire isp or wonder like area and alyssa considerations were developed for each and those were included in the board. Memo in previous presentations.

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Kacey french, cob:, so, as you can see, a little over half supported the name, change applied to the entire isp and wonder lake area..

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Kacey french, cob: and we broken down a secret some questions that might be helpful for the board tonight in making your recommendation to the city manager.

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Kacey french, cob:, the first question for the board would be do you recommend changing the name.

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Kacey french, cob: you know,. If not, then option one will be recommended to the city manager.. If yes, then, which remaining option or geographic area,? Is it the sensitive shoreline enclosure area around the lake or is it the entire isp process.

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Kacey french, cob: in addition,, in addition to breaking down the recommendation process or.

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Kacey french, cob: questions for the board.. We also heard that it would be helpful to highlight any potential management implications related to this recommendation.

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Kacey french, cob: again,, the list of management considerations, along with community considerations, were included in the considerations tables in the memo as a resource to help with this decision.

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Kacey french, cob: in short,. There are no major management implications, as the name change will not influence osm case management of the area.

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Kacey french, cob:, but there may be community expectations related to the word sanctuary.

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Kacey french, cob: that may be different or conflict with how the department will manage the area.. So we already heard and engagement window three.

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Kacey french, cob: statements and sentiments around a sanctuary, not being suited for fishing and other wild standing activities.

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Kacey french, cob:, which is inconsistent with the goals of passive recreation areas and future management.. So it's more about the potential for future misalignments or misunderstandings on how the areas managed.

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Kacey french, cob: on in between options, two, and three. again,. There are no major management implications because the management will remain the same.

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Kacey french, cob:, although there are more consistencies between option two. and the other isp on the ground management actions on which are in debt, protecting the valuable and sensitive shoreline option. Three: we just require changing more signs and references to wonder, like,.

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Kacey french, cob:, I'm in.. We wanted to get a general idea about the next steps. After this isp planning process is complete. Implementation will slowly begin in 2021.

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Kacey french, cob:, the implementation focus in 2021 will be on protecting wetteland resources by implementing the regulatory closure and associated actions.

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Kacey french, cob:, including the regulatory and interpretive science, to accurately reflect regulations and a lot of activities.

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Kacey french, cob: within the two to three year timeframe,. The implementation focus will be on shoreline restoration, water between design and to continue the work around clarifying allowed activities.

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Kacey french, cob: and likely begin the necessary operational renovations to the foothills nature center and the rest of the actions are currently anticipated to be completed within the five to seven year. Timeframe.

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Kacey french, cob: and before we close., I just wanted to thank all of the team, as the development of this preferred package of actions has been a collaborative effort with an extended interdisciplinary team with many subject matter. Experts.

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Kacey french, cob: and I will conclude tonight's presentation by listing the board motions request and turn it back over to the board.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay. casey thanks to you. and, as you say, thanks to all the staff that worked on this., this was a multi faceted.

B

Curt brown, osbt: activity stretching over multiple years and.

B

Curt brown, osbt:. I do very much appreciate the extra effort that all the staff put into finding additional ways to reach out to the community and also get the community's input. Multiple points here.. So dan, do you want to say anything before we asked for clarifying questions.

D

Cob, dan burke: no,- I just want to thank casey and she'll, be.

D

Cob, dan burke: here to answer any other board clarifying questions. but other than that, I'll turn it over to you. kurt and.

D

Curt brown, osbt: okay.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, okay,, very good., so curt brown, osbt:. I think we can entertain questions., I'm going to take them in two parts,. Since we do have two separate things.. I guess I will ask first, if.

B

Curt brown, osbt: any of the board members have clarifying questions regarding the isp elements and then later we'll see. If there's any questions about the potential name, changes that are proposed so clarifying questions to staff about the isp package.. You can just raise your hand.

B

Curt brown, osbt: yeah. yes., karen and you're muted.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I have just a couple. casey, you said a small restroom.. Can you.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: elaborate just a little bit on what that means to you. What you're envisioning for a small restroom.

M

Kacey french, cob: sure, and perhaps maybe I should have kept my screen share up, but we are anticipating it being in the footprint of the existing shed just immediately west of the foothills nature. Center.

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Kacey french, cob:, so there's already an existing shed there and existing building., and so we are anticipating being from that same size..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I understand that., I'm just wondering whether it means a female and a male side or whether it means multiple toilets for.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: down. kacey french, cob:, I misunderstood, karen. yes,. Of course it is probably to gender, neutral stalls.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: great. okay. and then I'm not perfectly clear on the trail uses that are allowed.. You mentioned in some detail: the handicapped, accessibility.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and in the packet there's a note about horse usage., tell me about dog uses that are allowed. oh.

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Kacey french, cob: yes,, it is on beach.

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Kacey french, cob: and if kacey french, cob:, I know it is on leash and it is the entire area. So.

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Kacey french, cob: and I spoke about the horses., the last time.

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karen hollweg, osbt:, but yeah. That's that's clear in the packet, okay and and the other small detail., I'm.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: access for ice, skating., yes.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: you've mentioned that you don't want people going up and over the dam.. How do you expect people who are ice skating to have access.

M

Kacey french, cob: um,. I think that the with the water levels higher in the winter- and you know off of the peninsula is where you know. Current,. Current access to the water's edge is and would still, you know, for me,, that visitor proximity to the water's edge there.

B

Curt brown, osbt: could piggyback on karen's question about dogs up. we're not going to allow waiting to do.. I assume at some place we will be saying on a sign. Dogs are not allowed in the water. also, and maybe why.

M

Kacey french, cob: yeah, there,. There are signs out there to inform visitors of the risks of allowing their dogs in the water due to the harmful on algae bacteria and will continue that existing practice.

D

Cob, dan burke: kurt and kurt in the beginning of the summer, especially, we do the last two years,, and especially this year. we've done a lot of collaboration regionally,, because obviously this is not specific to one to the lake.. It's not specific to austin peay. So.

D

Cob, dan burke:, you can allison. I've been working with our regional partners to put out press releases and to piggyback on that type of information. Sharing that issue as well.

B

Curt brown, osbt: yeah,. I saw a lot of that. that was good. thank you., so.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: is it just because of the lg that we don't want folks in the water, or is it because of water quality? And we really don't allow dogs in the water.

C

Kacey french, cob: you're, a karen, there's,, there's a multitude of reasons.. I think we're just trying to stress upon people, the absolute importance and safety and safety considerations to keeping keeping their pets safe.

M

Kacey french, cob:, but there are, there are reasons, as far as not wanting you know, dogs in the water in this, you know, on the shoreline in the sensitive habitat,, so there there are many reasons why there is a dog on leash. Policy.

M

Karen hollweg, osbt: okay, thanks. yeah.

B

Curt brown, osbt: save and you're muted.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: thank you., I'm not used to that.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: casey. I have two quick. well,. I have one comment and one question: as an old ice skater at wonderland lake.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, the, the,, the ice skating access off the peninsula is virtually non existent there. the real access is on the southeast corner., and so my.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: impression was that people if they wanted to escape reviews the fishing access points.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: for ice skating,, because the peninsula water at the peninsula is to shadow and it doesn't form ice., and so it really doesn't work.. They have ice skating, there.

H

Dave kuntz, osbt:, so that was my comment.. My question is on in the material for the renovation of the foothills nature center. There's a $250,000 estimate. and I'm just wondering if there is additional detail or how was that estimate arrived at.

M

Kacey french, cob: her yeah. I worked with up in may our facilities asset manager,, because we know that a lot of it was unknown and what we've looked at, where we looked at renovation costs like per square foot.,.

M

Kacey french, cob: for other house renovations that we've done and other renovations we've done to existing facilities in recent years..

M

Kacey french, cob:, and then we looked at kind of what we already knew about this facility, you know, having the best of lead.

M

Kacey french, cob: and looking at what nitasha needed for her junior ranger programming.. So it is a rough estimate and it's just based on what we knew about it and then also square foot costs for very recent construction.

M

B

Curt brown, osbt: other questions about the isp package.

B

Curt brown, osbt: yeah, carolina and you're muted., very good.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I'm casey,, could you let me know a little bit more.. What changes would happen to the parking lot to improve the snow removal.

M

Kacey french, cob: sure the fence might be pushed out a little bit because right now we have to. We have to use parking spaces for the snow.. There's no good place.

M

Kacey french, cob:, so it might be creating a, an area a little bump out to put the snow in so that we're not losing not losing that space. and then he christmas for buses. That would just be.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: on the side of the main road.

M

Kacey french, cob:, it will be, might just realized that slightly make it bigger,, maybe move a parking space slightly away from it. um,. It just might be a little, little tight there. So it just as a matter of just kind of moving.

M

Kacey french, cob: moving things around and make aligning things to make sure that the best is can safely enter and exit and not get.

B

Curt brown, osbt: any other questions on the isp package.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay, questions about the name, change, proposals.,.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay, seeing none,, then I think we are ready to turn to the public, hearing. and so, allison.. I know you're going to manage that. roughly. How many folks do you think we're going to have.

A

Alison ecklund, cob:, well, um,, we do have some on and we have one hand raised., but we have some people who joined since the beginning of the meeting.. So I just want to go over the instructions.

E

Alison ecklund, cob: on how to raise hands. one more time.. If you are interested in participating in public comment.. Unfortunately, we can't.

A

Alison ecklund, cob: turn your video on because of security issues,. We want to minimize disruptions,, but I will unmute you. if you want to participate.. So if you scroll down to the bottom of your screen and see your participants box.

A

Alison ecklund, cob:: if you open that box,, you should have the option in the bottom of that box to raise your hand.. So that's what we would like you to do now and I will.

A

Alison ecklund, cob: call on you in the order that the hands are raised and at that point.. When I say your name., I will unmute you., please say and spell your first and last name and then a two minute timer will start on screen.

A

Alison ecklund, cob:, if you do see some phone numbers. if you've called in and you would like to participate., you can raise your hand by pressing star nine.

A

Alison ecklund, cob: and then press star six to unmute yourself when it's your turn.. But if you could text me your name., I won't be able to unmute you just with your phone number alone,. I will need a phone number. so,.

A

Alison ecklund, cob:, if that's the case,, please text seven to 05768593 and I with your full name and I'll rename. You first. and I think that's everything we need to know.

E

Alison ecklund, cob: okay, seen one hand raise.

A

Alison ecklund, cob:, so far,.

B

Curt brown, osbt: wow,, it's not very many., so, allison.. I think we will allow three minutes. I will say one quick thing before we start, and that is.

B

Curt brown, osbt: to the folks commenting tonight that there are in the isp package. there are 24 proposed elements., and so if by chance you are speaking to a specific element.

B

Curt brown, osbt:. It would be great if you can also tell us what the number is of that. So we can try to keep track of your comments.. So anyway, do that if you can. all right, alan said: let's go ahead and start if we only have a handful at this point. Yet.

A

Alison ecklund, cob:, we just have one hand raised.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay, we'll give the person three minutes.

B

alison ecklund, cob: okay, judith., I'm going to unmute you.

O

Judith ansara: okay, okay., you hear me now.

O

judith, ansara:, yes,, hi., hi everybody,, I'm judith on saara, eliminate nine five, really lean boulder on last name is spelled h in sa ra.

O

Judith ansara: first of all,, I just contextual.. I know a bunch of you and I've been one of the citizens that had coordinated friends,, pull out wunderland laid up in response to the.

O

Judith ansara: you're in the all the other infrastructure.

O

Judith ansara:, I'm not speaking for that group.- but have I am an ear out to the community through that channel.

O

Judith ansara:, first of all,, I really, really like to appreciate everybody. Who's worked on this., it's a dramatic turnaround from where we started with board works and peers and waiting.

O

Judith ansara: and really want to appreciate staff open space city council last year, who really called a halt to the process.

O

Judith ansara: and the responsiveness and where you ended up is really encouraging, and I want to also give a public told the citizen activists in addition to the staff.

O

Judith ansara:, when you see that 900 people showed up for lunch meeting change., we had a we packed a meeting at the north boulder rec center with the where there wasn't enough room for people to.

O

Judith ansara: to even sit down or getting the room.. So that's been a very active part of this entire process and I really appreciate your responsiveness.

O

Judith ansara: as a quick aside,, I would love to have a conversation with anyone about community engagement process.. I don't want to go into that. Now.

O

Judith ansara:, but even though we've come out in a good place., I think there are ways that that could be really improved for future engagements and that's part of my professional life.

O

Judith ansara:, the two issues. I really want to raise for consideration to, for any decisions are made.. The first one is about the name change.

O

Judith ansara:, it is unheard of in boulder's history to have 900 people support at a dozens of organizations and institutions and businesses support proposal.

O

Judith ansara: that says a lot.. The reason that that has been so huge, is that I got to talk quickly.

O

Judith ansara: is that the sun disappeared,, just before the proposal for the pier and the boardwalk and everything else. it created a lot of distrust,, which was unfortunate.

O

Judith ansara:, since there is no legal implications that the deepest concern that I and the majority of people who answered the survey, I gotta talk, really, really quickly.

O

Judith ansara: is that leaving out the east dam and the right pierian wildlife, habitat between broadway and lake.

O

Judith ansara: leaves out a crucial part of the sanctuary and preservation and conservation, and originally there were plans to try to put trails in that area which don't seem to be there anymore, that it's deeply, deeply, deeply. Concerning that that be not included.

B

Curt brown, osbt: great judith.. Thank you for your comments and all of your participation in this process.

A

Alison ecklund, cob: okay,. We have one more hand: robert sharp.

A

Alison ecklund, cob: robert,, you are unmuted.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: is there a timer available.

B

Curt brown, osbt:: can you see the timer on the screen.

L

No. robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com:, it says done speaking.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, that's okay,, wait., curt, brown, osbt:. You can tell you when you're getting close.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: okay., all right. well, thank you.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com:, I heard the mention of trail realignments and any improvements and accessibility and- and this means I think, cutting, new, new trails and I just wanted to say more about.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: how the work was done on marshall mesa that, for me, just has gone against everything. I've ever known about principles of of open space and have a trail.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: of building and maintenance, and so forth.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com:, it's bad enough,, you know, to what the trade off for certain, certain things to go into. Another area I think, deserves greater consideration, it's,. It seems, on marshall, mesa the cutting the fourth.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: neglecting a historic route to the point that you have to.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: make 2000 feet of new trail, and because it's now people after decades of using it., it's too steep. some people say.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com:, these are not good trade offs.. I mean,. I just think that there's worthy of discussion about the trade offs of helping one thing and destroying another then the way that the way that it was done over here.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: to to to cut you know to foot.. I mean four foot by 2000. Feet is horrific in itself,, but then to to to hack in and dig in and throw the excess dirt and vegetation and huge clumps of things.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: 30 feet and 40 feet off the trail and trample all of it and trample in between trails and run machines everywhere and pull raw natural rocks out of the slope. Enroll them around.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: destroy the habitat of spiders and insane. no, no regard whatsoever for the insects are the plants are trying to save what can be saved in and stay within a corridor and.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: and by subverting yes.

B

Curt brown, osbt: robert, you've got one minute. Left. do you have any hand.? You want to say specifically about the proposed actions that wunderland like.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: well,, I want to say that I wouldn't,. I would like to ask for more consideration of how the trade offs are being measured when it,, when any new trail is being cut where there is, is none.. Now that's.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com:, that's the main thing. and I guess I'd like the board to to consider some review of these trade offs. Where.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com:, you know,, it seems that insect is not considered at all.. It seems the value of plants not considered at all the value of the topsoil., the bisecting further of.

L

Robert sharpe gaztkg@gmail.com: of areas- I don't the land,, the visual impact., I don't, it's,, there's no way of telling that these things are considered at all, or what value is given to them in. In weighing one thing against another.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay,, that's your three minutes. thank you, robert.

A

Alison ecklund, cob:, that's all the hands.. I see.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay, thank you. allison.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, so that brings us back to the board on sorry. The staffs motions.

B

Curt brown, osbt: I'm going to suggest that we discuss them separately., and so I guess I'm going to first ask.

B

Curt brown, osbt:. The motion is to recommend that staff advance the preferred package of actions for the wunderland lake, integrated site project into detail, design and execution.

B

Curt brown, osbt: anybody have any general discussion or thoughts before we entertain. Motions, just raise your hand.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, yeah. dave and you're muted.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I really feel badly about what I'm going to say,, because I do appreciate the effort that staff and the community have put in., but I must say. having said that,, then I make extremely disappointed in the proposals.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: in many cases in that is because I am.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: concerned that it doesn't appear that a holistic view of the landscape was actually taken and the focus being on wunderland lake and a passive recreation area, just in fact ignores or d values. Both the status of the lake and the surrounding area., and I guess.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know,, it's an the lake is an important part of an ecosystem that is, you know, is the junction of the great plains grasslands and in the rocky mountain foothills.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: and to say that it's a passive recreation and that the only values are restoring the margins., I think, really diminishes. The importance of the area.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, I'm going to speak to some of the educational opportunities that I think either were not considered or were.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: discounted that I think, are extremely important, and that is the restoration of that entire area is. It is a wonderful opportunity for the community to both understand the value of not only.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: water, on an arab semi, arid landscape,, but also in native grasslands, in most of the grass when and when, when habitats are non native at this point. so,, there.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: are extremely valuable restoration efforts there that.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: in an area that's right: smack dab in an urban matrix where people don't have to go anywhere to see. What's going on and to participate.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: in volunteer projects and look out their back doors and in actually see, you know, a restoration of transformation actually from a non native.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, weedy grassland to or wetland to more native, diverse and functional ecosystem.. So.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:. My concern is that we're not really looking at the spectrum of natural values and we're discounting them, because it's a it's a passive recreation, designation, area.. It's.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, it's a place. and that's the whole point of the sanctuary and which I will talk about when we get to that,. But.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, it's a name of a place,, then the categories that we're talking about passive recreation area, habitat conservation, area.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, those are management categories. They speak not at all to the actual values that are in those areas. and yes,. The categories are based on the values,, but I just think in the many of the staff proposals that we're just completely missing the point. so,.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: I'll, basically leave it at that., but I think there's a tremendous living laboratory opportunity right there at wunderland make that we would be.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: remiss to not take advantage of. and you can look at doing prescribed burns and, you know,, we'd eradication receiving all those activities are hands. On.

G

Dave kuntz,, osbt: and interpretive signs do not do it for the community.. The fact that the community members can get in and participate in those kinds of activities is invaluable.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: both to increase their understanding and appreciation of what it takes to actually do that, because a lot of the.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: you know, native ecosystem restoration efforts were doing or,. You know,, are not in inaccessible places, but places that people have to work through to get.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: to this is right in their backyards.. What an opportunity in judah spoke to the importance of wonderland creek that little stream in the right parent air is extremely important. It., that's a wildlife quarter and it functions.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: well, doesn't function, all that great at the moment, but it,. It has great potential for increasing the wildlife, habitat values there. and in fact,.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: again,. We would be derelict not to.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: actually focus on that., so I'll leave it at that.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: will have some comments about on the sanctuary nomenclature,, but I am extremely concerned that we have taken a very limited management view.

G

Curt brown, osbt: this area., so dave,. Let me just ask a little bit of.

B

Curt brown, osbt: mean, I think, curt brown, osbt:. To some extent, this effort grew out of the norm, tsa,, which was in trail study, area. and so,. It tended to have a trail, centric focus and a recreation focus.

B

Curt brown, osbt:. I think it has been brought in some from that., but let me just ask you a lot of the things you described.

B

Curt brown, osbt: to me don't seem to be prevented by the isp package.. They are things that open space could additionally do in the area, and I think.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, many of them you described sound like very worthwhile efforts,. I very much appreciate your point that this is right in the middle of the city. and so a lot of the things we might do. Remotely, we could do here,, but do you see the isp.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, preventing those things from happening or you're, just more disappointed that it didn't take into consideration, those broader possibilities.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, both dave kuntz, osbt:. I will say, kurt that based on experience., I think.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: the plans in,, you know,. The management documents need to call out specifically, you know, what is anticipated or intended to happen. so yeah,. I agree that potentially, that could have those things might happen,, but particularly where the educational.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: component. dave kuntz, osbt:. I am just extremely disappointed that you know there isn't the acknowledgement that.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: here is a wonderful opportunity for community members to get their hands in the dirt, and you know really understand what it takes to restore these areas and give them, you know, some.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: some responsibility for protecting and maintaining the area,, which then gets to more of the sanctuary nomenclature.. So I am. I am of the opinion that, based on experience that.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:. It is far more desirable to have these things described in the national plan and to think. now, you know,. We could possibly do that at some point.

B

Curt brown, osbt: mm hmm., curt brown, osbt: did casey or dan,. Did you want to reflect on what dave's raised here.

B

Curt brown, osbt: I mean, to some extent,. I think it was sort of the scope that we went into this world. and so, casey.. Did you want to talk here.

M

Kacey french, cob:, I'll start. and dan and others. If you have anything you'd like to add, please,, please do so. um,, so we did.

M

Kacey french, cob: take a more holistic view., it wasn't just implementing the north korea city or we were trying to look at the area as a whole,. As far as restoration.

M

Kacey french, cob: opportunities. They you're right that you know most of the,. A lot of the grasslands out farther east are not are not native right. Now.

M

Kacey french, cob:, when we were speaking with our ecologists,, they did not really prioritize that area when, especially when you were looking system wide as a restoration potential.

M

Kacey french, cob: area., so it was just having to do with, with priority system wide and restoration efforts. We do to see the value of the the proximity.

M

Kacey french, cob: and having a lot of visitors in the area to see how the educational component that dave was speaking to.

M

Kacey french, cob:, and that is why, you know,. We do have the restoration on the peninsula with, you know, the temporary signs to to help educate.

M

Kacey french, cob: and share those experiences and what it means to restore restore small area,. But that's why the area.

M

Kacey french, cob: out east was not was not included., it just wasn't a priority amongst our ecological staff as a restoration area,, but we did. we did.. We did look at that and we are hoping to reach.

M

Kacey french, cob: reach some deep.. We are hoping to reach people through our actions through the protections of the interpretive signs. The closure in the restoration areas to emphasize,. As david pointed out, this area does have a lot of high ecological values,. It has both high visitation and some high.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I do understand that casey and I appreciate your explanation,, but it just strikes me that both location and,, you know, kind of the importance of.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know, water and a semi, arid landscape.. You are a little right parent. there. You have such tremendous educational opportunities. That may not be a priority.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know resource wise but educationally for the community.. I can't think of a, a more.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, a better place,, you know, and a more important place for the community to really understand what it takes. To, you know, do prescribed burns to.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: receive native grassland., try and,, you know,, encourage the native plants and take care of the place and and that gets,, as I said, before, to the sanctuary notion.. So I understand the prioritization., but for me, you know, interpretive signs in a place like this. Don't really do it unless.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know,, there's some active educational, opportunities.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, caroline.

N

That's going a little bit off of what dave said.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, when we look at the value of the natural habitat.

N

and the visual disturbances and then integrate, you know,, our landscape scale approaches in collaboration with stakeholders,, which is, you know,, our local neighborhood. In that area.

N

I think it would be diligent to design interventions that have the intention of learning about the system's response and how they.

N

Create a lot more recreation and increase visitation without really stopping to understand what that's going to do to the environment.. I think that that might be a disservice to wonder then lake and the community that surrounds it.

N

Instead, maybe again,, like I said, with the intention of learning and then adjust management practices in response to the new information that we have around that, and I think robert sharp.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: said it well when he was talking about., caroline miller, osbt:, the trade offs between recreation, or protection.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I think that the idea of have tried to get more native species back and and burn control, and things like that and learning what that does to the area. As far as improvements would be in high value.

N

Caroline miller,, osbt: and and and just like all politics in america today., it seems like our environmental politics are becoming more polarized. So.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, providing programs that provide environmentally beneficial results, and it just seems like what the neighborhood is really saying: is,, do they want, you know, a playground or a paradise., and I just think that it is.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, it behooves all of us to to really listen to those that are in the area and what they're describing as as what they need.. So thank you.

B

Caroline miller, osbt: so, curt brown, osbt: much curt brown, osbt: mark,. Did you want to jump into.

P

Cob mark davison: yeah, just add more case, you saying just it both dave and caroline respond.. What you say perhaps.

P

Cob mark davison: way forward is technology, you know,. We do do education, programs out of one blake and its a mix of programs, it's accessible site, site for youth, programs.

P

Cob mark davison: to site for us in the equity programs. We do.

P

Cob mark davison:, and it's also a site for environmental education programs and within all the programs we do. We always offer an environmental component., so that is just focused on the program, you know, taking people out on the site.

P

Cob mark davison:. I think what we could build into the plan is what I'm hearing is, you know, we've done this before with the old recommendations.. Can we emphasize the existing work? We do in the plan.

P

Cob mark davison: and then, as casey pointed out as restoration opportunities arise and we in our work plan and we build those in.. Can we make sure volunteer efforts or education programs.

P

Cob mark davison: talk about that type of land management and the restoration that's occurring., so we'd be,, you know,. Like any of these plan. Efforts would be happy to add that to the plan.

P

Cob mark davison: and make it part of the record and recommendation., and I think what we've done with the previous is is piece is taken those recommendations from this discussion. and then, you know, as it stands, it's a draft, then finalize it and obvious board. Members, you've trusted will incorporate.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, well, mark,. What we have actually out, as you know, on the landscape, is, is an artificial empowerment.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: right over the years is, you know,.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: supported a number of wildlife, habitat values and we've got degraded, wetlands and degraded grasslands associated with that., and so it's like.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: for me, this is,, it's more than just kind of an educational programs. It in the sense that this gets people.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know involved in the active restoration rather than the staff necessarily having to do all the restoration.. I mean,. The staff obviously can lead it., but this gets the community and found, and I just think.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know,, increases the understanding and appreciation of what it takes to actually maintain, well, restore, maintain and protect these areas., and I just hate to see us.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: you know, kind of not take it. no,. It's not take advantage but miss that opportunity. yeah. well,. As I keep saying it., I think it's a wonderful opportunity for us to really educationally reach out to the community.

P

Cob mark davison: dave just to confirm that totally agree, like a traditional programming. plus,, when we do restoration, efforts.

P

Cob mark davison:. I think you noticed. one of the changes we've had at the gun battle meeting and the women meetings.

P

Cob mark davison: to offer opportunities for the community to sign up and volunteer, you know,, which email, freestone and her staff being there.. So we are looking for ways to better integrate that., so we'd be happy to add that to the plan.

G

Curt brown, osbt:, eric. thanks.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: um,, I keep thinking about what we did with the isp. Remind me, the name of the area: that's east, of these boulder rec center.

B

Curt brown, osbt: gephardt.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: thank you. yep, hard. um,. We spent a lot of time talking about the restoration of that little segment of land between the road and the creek bed,. It gets hard.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, and so I see what dave is describing, is very much something that could- and I would advocate should be mentioned in this isp as.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, just as it wasn't gephardt and that is that there's a great opportunity for habitat restoration.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it fits with the concept in the master plan of developing a learning laboratory approach to conservation.. It fits with the, the part of the master plan that talks about connecting youth to the outdoors.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, as well as an and what I hear. mark, describing when he's referring to the education programs that go on there out there now.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it sounds to me that they're more about communication and less about involving learners in a learning laboratory kind of situation. and I'd like to see the language from the master plan used in describing what dave is suggesting and be made part of this isp.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: I, when I got to page 34 in the packet.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and I saw all the red x's about water access. we're not having water access.. So we're not going to have that kind of visitor experience in nature, settings center, nature, study., um,, we're not going to foster education and interpretive experiences. Anymore,, there's red x. Is there because.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: of the reconstruction of the peninsula., and I think, instead of those things that that granted, the neighborhood did not want to see. and so they've been eliminated..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I think, instead,. We need to put into this isp statements about developing a learning laboratory approach to conservation and restoration of the area.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, involving the public in.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, improving the the native.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: restoration of of both the aquatic and the.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: terrestrial ecosystems, their.

P

Cob mark davison: current we'd be happy to do that. and I know recently retired dave sutherland is working on this project to talk about,. You know, the idea of water and explain the history of water at the site.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and I want to see in in the part that I'm suggesting. I want to see less explaining and communication and more actually learning laboratory like dave, was saying,, get your hands dirty work on the restoration of the ecosystem, there.

C

Dave kuntz, osbt:, in addition to watermark, and I talked with john potter and chris weiner yesterday.,.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:. We know what an opportunity for fire people now I have to figure out, you know, fire is something they got to be paying attention to in here. We have an opportunity to do some prescribed burning in an urban matrix.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, that is safe and educational and people can understand.. You know what fire is as far as its relationship to maintaining native ecosystems, a tremendous opportunity,. I think.

B

Curt brown, osbt:: are you guys drafting language to add to curt brown, osbt: the motion.

P

Cob mark davison: see casey, casey.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, I'm curt brown, osbt:, going to take some notes. curt brown, osbt:, but I mean, that's my sense. Here. I think we're all saying is that I don't know that anything that's been proposed.

B

Curt brown, osbt: can't be an additional area of emphasis for the isp, and so that's why I wanted to make sure was asking, dave.. If there are things in the isp elements that he believes would prevent. This.

B

Curt brown, osbt:- I don't know that there are,, but there's certainly could be added as a as a significant area of emphasis. Caroline.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I'm just in response to what you're saying. for me, it's, it's the size of the footprint is see, is the increase in activity.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, along with the degradation, is currently present and how to maintain that balance or or still make the area better, so not understanding what the larger footprint is going to do, and the impact is where my concerns are.

E

Curt brown, osbt: would you want to add something that talks very specifically about.

B

Curt brown, osbt: monetary impact of visitation on these important resources, as as part of the isp.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: and I, again,. I think that it would just require a huge scale down.. I think that you would have to what happened to the system. and then the april. from there,, like I said,, adjusted management practices with new information. From that, I just wonder if all of those.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: isp projects are implemented., caroline miller, osbt:, and that is the new current state of the system.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, then how would you scale down from there.- and I think that just looking at our resources and everything that has changed into.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, really based on the high value, one on the natural habitat and the very fragile ecosystem.. That's where.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, I think, caroline, where we're that is a segue into the conversation on the name change and you know the the.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: before before you go there, dave,. Can we hear from how he's been having.

B

Curt brown, osbt: yeah. curt, brown, osbt:. I see your hand.

F

Hal hallstein: yeah,, you know,, I really in reading the details and changes from where we began to where we are now.. I think incredible progress was made in many regards. personally,, I'm really happy, because the new project is materially less capital intensive.

F

Hal hallstein: than the prior one, particularly like noticing your desire to keep the footprint of the the built structure where it is even the idea of using shade sales to extend that structure.. I think it's.

F

Hal hallstein: a really beautiful idea. I am pretty much fully supportive of this., I'm not hearing, particularly what I would describe as immediate actionable.

F

Hal hallstein: items from other board members., so I'm going to just put my full support behind the plan as it stands with one small point that I'd like to make.

F

Hal hallstein:, I think a lot of the learning laboratory, and at least my friends who use the lake are fishing their with their children.

F

Hal hallstein: and on these stone fishing past that lead down there.. I just encourage you when you build them that the stone should fan out a bit to accommodate one adult fishermen and.

F

Hal hallstein: to law, fishermen.

F

hal hallstein:, but the the incursion into the water in the shoreline is minimalize and is also comfortable and for me that's a lot of the learning laboratory. That's there.

F

Hal hallstein:, I'm sure that's a very small thing,, but just the sort of us small children landing pad and really,. I just want to say,. I appreciate your flexibility to work with the community to get here and again, I'm enthusiastic about it.

B

Curt brown, osbt: other comments,, I'm caroline, where you.

B

Curt brown, osbt: get given what you're talking about.. What were you going to propose that certain elements be dropped out, because you felt they would increase visitation in a way that could be harmful to the resources,? What you're thinking.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know, it's,, it's kind of twofold. The structures that are already there, have some issues.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know,, I go there with my children. and while I do think that, you know, a bathroom in some ways would be good and I hear what we're saying about the equity with it.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:. I also do feel that the time that most people spend around the lake is is what it should be for the next round. Of, you know, passive recreation visitors that come in.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: and then again, that set overcrowding, and then people passing on the walkway and extending it, it just I just I just have concerns.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:. I don't think that there's anything in particular. If that's your question as to what would change but but yeah, I know that the bathroom for the people in the community was an issue and I do see where they're concerned slide with that.

F

Hal hallstein: can I sort of.

B

Curt brown, osbt: go ahead.

F

Hal hallstein:, my sense of the community's concern is really more concerned about.

F

Hal hallstein: the management and approach to those who are unhappy in our community. generally, and it's particular location relative to some of those facilities.

F

Hal hallstein: I in a place like this.. I personally do support having bathrooms there.. There's a lot of people. Elderly people, young people were.

F

Hal hallstein: incontinence, different things., it's a big part of dignity and having a bathroom at hand available in this particular location to me makes sense. it's not,, not to say that what the community is seeing won't be a problem.. I think it will be a problem.

F

Hal hallstein:, but that's going to require a larger interagency discussion and a bigger solution.. I just worry that we can't unilaterally not put the right facilities for for the community there simply because there's this other tertiary issue that needs to be discussed in my opinion.

B

Curt brown, osbt: other thoughts.

B

curt brown, osbt: on that.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah,, I mean, I think in reading all the public comments, how what you said. definitely holds weight,, but I also did read.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: for the north folder community. it's,, it's been,. It becomes a place where you can stay for half the day or stay for the whole day. and then again,, just that increase in visitation. and what that will do. So. yeah.

B

Curt brown, osbt: so, caroline., I'm going to come back to the idea about.

B

Curt brown, osbt: monitoring, visitor use.. I mean,. I think that is a general concern of the community., and I mean if you, if you have that concern.. I think it's would be perfectly reasonable to say that.

B

Curt brown, osbt:: we should be monitoring, visitation and use and impacts our resources. Now staff may say, well,. That's part of our visitor monitoring, but karen, did you want to jump in.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah, I, I've jotted down some language that I'd be willing to try out if you're ready for that.

B

Curt brown, osbt: yeah.

B

Curt brown, osbt: go ahead.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: um, karen hollweg, osbt:. I wouldn't move to recommend that staff advanced the preferred package of actions for the wunderland like integrated site project.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: into detailed design and execution, with the addition.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: of a section for developing a learning laboratory, approach.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: to education and restoration.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that includes opportunities for service learning and monitoring the quality of the aquatic and terrestrial habitat.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay,. I got laboratory approach that did you say, increases the.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that includes opportunities.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: for service learning.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and monitoring.

C

karen hollweg, osbt:, the quality of the aquatic and terrestrial habitat.

B

Curt brown, osbt: service learning, curt brown, osbt:. What's that.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's a term right out of the education section of our master plan.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, oh dear.,.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: mark, mark. mark smiling because he knows what karen hollweg, osbt:, he karen hollweg, osbt: got it from.

P

Cob mark davison: exactly. and it's a good.. It's a townsville when you actually educational type, loading just what you're describing, when you were a restoration project or whatever.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: for people to get their hands dirty. karen hollweg, osbt: exactly and contribute to the restoration.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: um, and,, and I think, if we can include that kind of a element to this mark has already said that.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that fits in with educational programming kinds of things that the staff is working on and as if we can see the space again., I can see whether it's heads nodding yes or no.

P

Cob mark davison: yes,, it is.

B

Curt brown,, osbt: well,, one thing we've proved is that leah, can type a lot faster than I can.

E

Curt brown, osbt: bring that back.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, I think that's good. and then.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: they've got some editing to do.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay,, so let's let billy up, bring it up and dave, you can director.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, so what I would I would dave kuntz, osbt: suggest adding in snippet after habitat, would be in this.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: unique area in an urban matrix so that we're highlighting you know my specific importance of this area.

Q

Cob leah case: sorry, dave. at the very arms.

B

Dave kuntz, osbt:, yes. yeah,, it was so after habitat would see.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: me area in an urban matrix.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, it's pretty good.

I

Cob leah case:, I might have to turn my video off because it's cutting out. did that get. But you said.

I

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I like it.,.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, so I'm going to read it because we have people who are listening.

B

Curt brown, osbt: karen move the open space board of trustees to recommend that step. Adequate, just dropped the two so open space or to breastfeed trustees, recommend.

B

Curt brown, osbt: that staff advanced the preferred pack should have of actions for the wunderland lake integrated site project into detailed design and execution.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, with the addition of a section for developing a learning laboratory approach to education and restoration.. That includes opportunities for service learning and monitoring.

B

Curt brown, osbt: help me, karen.. It says monitoring quality.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: quality of.

B

Curt brown, osbt: monitoring the.

C

Curt brown,, osbt: shouldn't say: monitoring the quality.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: sure., curt brown,, osbt:, okay, monitoring the quality.

B

Curt brown, osbt: of aquatic and terrestrial habitat.

B

Curt brown, osbt: in a unique area., curt brown, osbt: in an urban matrix.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, like kurt, that I think habitat should be plural., so there are two hands,: it gets there, actually.

B

Curt brown, osbt: yeah,, very good.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, I'm going to ask staff. Did we accidentally drop out anything in the original.

B

Curt brown, osbt: proposed motion that we're missing right now that you think we need to add back in.

P

Cob mark davison:, can I just.

B

Curt brown, osbt: get like mark.

P

Cob mark davison:, just a question. and yeah,, I'm just looking at the master plan here and you're hitting cci six for experiment, literacy, it cci seven cultural leaders and stewardship and cca hiking community understanding of land management, efforts.

P

Cob mark davison: and the question that have is,: do you want this writing in the motion or similar to the way we did the master plan and the advice piece.? This could be something casey could take back and incorporate into.

P

Cob mark davison:, self. and that's the board would trust us that we do.

P

Curt brown, osbt: and that keep it a recommendation. so mark, with the semi final.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: mark,, I would just add cci three.

P

Karen hollweg, osbt: okay, perfect., where service learning opportunities come on in.

P

Cob mark davison: and what I was going to suggest in the advice piece we went in and added that to the language in,. You know, made amendment and then.

P

Cob mark davison:. Basically, when we posted the final version, it included this type of language.. So it's up to you.. I believe it in the motion or put it back into the itself as.

B

Well, curt brown, osbt: as the simple way to just sort of add at the end of that, in order to pursue master plan elements blank blank blank blank unless those elements numbers, at least, and you can expand it, but it.. Why don't you tell leah what those numbers are.

B

Curt brown, osbt: to it. so, leah,. This would be.

B

Curt brown, osbt: you,, you could have an additional sentence,. It would be something like this is to particularly address masterplan elements.

P

Cob, mark davison:, and, I would say cc- is 367 and eight.

P

M

Kacey french,, cob: and then correct answer your question about the original motion recommended.

M

Kacey french, cob: language. did I hear that correctly. yeah,, I think you've got everything, be emotion. Language was to recommend that staff advanced the preferred package of actions for the one to them, make integrated site project into detail, design and execution,, which is exactly what you have.

B

Kacey french, cob: okay., curt brown, osbt:, thanks for thanks for double checking us.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, let me just ask mark one additional question.: do you want to add ehr seven, which is developing a learning. learning, laboratory approach to conservation.

P

Cob mark davison: thank you,, karen. yes.

G

Dave kuntz,, osbt: and mark I I guess I would like to suggest that we add the appropriate environmental.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: elements to that as well,, which is.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's ehr, seven.

E

Dave kuntz,, osbt: okay., is that what you recommended,, karen. yep.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: well,, and it's also six actually.

P

Cob mark davison:, I think it's a good point. you could say, such as, and then you know. Obviously a staff develops. The programs works on the female side, you know,. We can come back to the board at some point, talking about how we've been able to implement it., so it may be good to put such as in there.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's a good idea.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, and that would be at the beginning to particularly address master plan elements such as. is that, where you're saying.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it was karen hollweg,, osbt:, ok, and then leah at the end of eight..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and ehr six and seven.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and spell check doesn't like ehr.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: your idea.. I think it would be redundant to add, after your sentence of integrated side project into detailed design and execution of.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, the ad ecosystem based management., I mean,. I know that's what we're talking about.. So I don't know if that's just kind of redundant in the sentence or if that helps to clarify it.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: to add after execution, ecosystem based management.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: well,, it's really the integrated the execution of the isp.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: okay,. I wasn't sure if that.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and I agree with you, everything that comes after that has to.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: do with ecosystem management,. What.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay, any.

B

Curt brown, osbt: any friendly amendments to karen's draft motion.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay, karen., I'm gonna. Let you move that and read it.

B

Curt brown, osbt: I move. go ahead.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I'm move that the open space board of trustees recommend that staff advanced the preferred package of actions for the wunderland like integrated site project into detailed design and execution..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, with the addition of a section for developing a learning laboratory approach to education and restoration., that includes opportunities for service learning and monitoring.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: ups service learning and monitoring the quality of aquatic and terrestrial habitats in a unique area in an urban matrix.. This is a particularly this is to particularly address master plan elements such as cci 3678 and ehr. Six and seven.

B

Curt brown, osbt: I'll second that.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay,, I'm going to call role here in support of karen's motion or in opposition, how.

B

Hal hallstein:, I will support.

F

Curt brown, osbt: karen.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: yes. dave coons.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: yes. and thank you very much.

B

Curt brown, osbt: caroline. miller, yes and kirk brown, says yes. leah. This passes unanimously.. Thank you to all,. I think this is a significant improvement and dave,. Thank you for.

B

Curt brown, osbt: willing to pitch this and caroline to., so thank you very much., you're welcome.. So this takes us then, to the second motion and dave,. You wanted to talk about the name.. So why don't you lead out here.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I will be happy to do that. in fact,, actually,, leah, can or allison. can we get a view of the.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: yes, thank you. dave, kuntz, osbt:, I'd like to see you. I'm trying to.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: use me before we go on, um,.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I want to make sure we don't lose house point about making the ends of the steps down.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: off the damn big enough to accommodate. is that something that. casey can just include in staff notes or something.

M

Kacey french, cob:. Sorry, I keep hitting the wrong button.

M

Kacey french, cob:. Yes, we can,. We can take note of that of that idea and put that on for consideration into the into the detailed design, process. okay.

M

Karen hollweg, osbt: thanks.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, I think I said, sir,, it's general support for the idea is a very good point of having kids fishing is one of the higher goals in life.

B

Curt brown, osbt: thanks., curt, brown,, osbt:, okay, dave.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: you're, all my native fish, though kurt.

B

Curt brown, osbt: yeah,, you know,, you get what you.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: what you get karen hollweg, osbt: that all rainbow trout.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, that's right., curt, brown, osbt:. Maybe we can get some greenbacks in there.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, so sanctuary.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know,. This is the segue.. I was trying to say with what caroline was saying about. You know the impacts and climate change and all of that,, because.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know there is a real community responsibility to take care of these areas and- and you know, a sanctuary that defines a place., and so it's the name means that it's a special place in there.. There are expectations for certain behaviors.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: in sanctuaries., and I think that the public understands that you know when you're in a sanctuary,, you are expected to behave differently.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: and,, you know, comes from the latin sanctum, but you know it's a it's supposedly a place of refuge and protection,. Where you know you, you show respect and reflection. and I think that's exactly.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: what we want in a place like this and and I think the community gets it., and so I I'm always been perplexed at the need to remove that. Because of.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:. What my perception is and excuse me, dan for saying this, but is: is there other more bureaucratic notion of management.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: because certainly, as I said, before, the management categories that the department has come up with.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: you know,, certainly have flexibility to accommodate or or incorporate a whole host of,. You know, more place specific.

G

Dave kuntz,, osbt:, actions. and again,. I think the importance of the this area,. It won't be misunderstood for habitat conservation area.. They are completely different.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:: this is an area that's in an urban matrix. As I keep saying, habitat conservation areas are different because the size, location, diversity, a whole host of things, and I think people.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: get it, they,, they won't mistake. the fact that wonderland is called a sanctuary and we're calling other places. Hca.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, so I'm just concerned that in in a rush to say, well, we're managing this as a passive recreation, area.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: the whole reason that people were going there primarily is because of the resource values, and we should be making sure that we're not only managing or maintaining or enhancing those,, but that.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, we're protecting. You know that which the public in the community are coming to both enjoy and learn about, and.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:. We want to foster that notion of taking care of this place.. It is a special place because of you know, what's there. you don't see water on those in a semi, arid landscape, very frequently. and because of that, a whole bunch of things are happening so.

B

Curt brown, osbt: someone else to talk.. Let me just ask are,: are you supporting option two or three then.

B

Dave kuntz, osbt:: do you have a preference. well, three because and I'll speak to that.

G

Dave kuntz,, osbt: yeah,, wonder to make it you know it's a tiny right period, area,, but every right period area in this larger area of the semi, arid landscape, is extremely important and it does provide a habitat court or value that could be greatly increased.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, and so I think that to be excluded from any kind of designation and would again be remiss.

B

Curt brown, osbt: thank you., who else would like to speak.

B

curt brown, osbt: to this issue.

B

Curt brown, osbt: can.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I just have a quick question about boundaries. um, and I don't know whether dave or dan or casey, or who, the who the right person is to come in about this..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, but I'm wondering whether the boundaries, then of the of the wildlife sanctuary.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: are karen hollweg, osbt:, what's shown in blue., follow the osm p property line.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: avoid including things like the trails adjacent to broadway and the the structures on the north east corner or where the boundaries of the wildlife sanctuary are.

D

Cob, dan burke: not case of., wouldn't that be the isp boundaries for option. Three. yes.

B

Curt brown, osbt: maps on page 37.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah,, so the everything within the blue line would be wildlife, sanctuary.

D

Kacey french, cob: yes. cob, dan burke: under option three.

B

Curt brown, osbt: sorry. yeah., that's on page 38.. Thank you very much..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and does that.. Does that mean the the brown trail where it goes outside of the blue lines.? Is that still smp land, and that's just outside.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: of sanctuary.- I don't want to get too nitpicky about this.. I just want to clear understanding.

C

Kacey french, cob: are you: are you speaking of the parks and rec land to the south of the lake, karen.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: no,, I'm specifically looking at the karen hollweg, osbt: north side.

M

Kacey french, cob:, the north side. okay.

M

dave kuntz, osbt: well,, that's great., kacey french,, cob:, yeah,, that's, yeah,, it's the,! It's! The blue line, is on the south side of that on the property.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: property, where there's a massive house being don't.

C

Curt brown, osbt: know, karen hollweg,, osbt: well,, but there's the dark. The dark brown is an open space, trail. right.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: well,. It goes long, silverlake pitch,, but it's just,, it's basically the trail.. That's all it is. ok.

B

Curt brown, osbt: any other thoughts or questions.. How are you raising your hand on this.

F

Hal hallstein: yeah,, I want to add a quick thought.. I mean,, despite the non regulatory nature of it within this concept of.

F

Hal hallstein: the place being a teaching place., I kind of lean towards keeping the word sanctuary.. It was once called that there's an element of continuity.

F

Hal hallstein: the sign being removed, panic, the community,, which tells us that they were attached to it, and I just don't see much downside for it.

F

Hal hallstein: because perhaps parents tell their children, you know,, let's go down to the wonderful in lake wildlife sanctuary,, it becomes cultural and regardless of any change in regulatory management,, maybe there's a spiritual shift.. So I support keeping it, as is the option of no change.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah,. I think it sends a message to the community and I and again I think they get it.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, I just want to be clear., curt, brown, osbt:, I think option. One means.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, having it be called wonderland lake period, is that my understanding case it. yes.

C

Kacey french, cob: yeah. karen hollweg, osbt:, oh so house, describing one as three.

B

Curt brown, osbt: right.

M

Kacey french, cob: house describing either option two or three so option one,. It would just remain one of them lake and then option to and option three.

M

Kacey french, cob: was an option to a portion would be called wonder. The lake sanctuary,, which is just the value that habitat around the lake and then option three is the whole area, would be called wildlife, wunderland, make wildlife sanctuary and.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, I guess all way and I agree with dave and I think I agree with how to.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, I don't think it makes any sense to not have a sign, where the sign used to be right. There. as you go in that says, wondering like wildlife sanctuary so.

B

Curt brown, osbt: to me, that's another argument for having an applied to the whole area, which is option three., um. any other discussion, or if somebody wants to make a motion that would be.

D

Cob, dan burke:, just a clarification., curt, brown, osbt: yeah, thank you., cob, dan burke: yeah. wildlife. Sanctuary sign that was taken down was not the main trail head, sign. um,. It was a step up a reference to a sign that was closer to the lake.

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Curt brown, osbt: oh, curt brown, osbt:. I couldn't tell that. thank you.

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Cob, dan burke:, yeah, and so option three would replace the existing broadway sign.

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Cob, dan burke:, and to include the name wildlife, sanctuary.

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Curt brown, osbt: thank you, dan and I dave kuntz, osbt:. I think that makes sense that curt brown, osbt:. You know someone that comes there.

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Curt brown, osbt:. If this is what we're going to name the area,, it should be right up front. So I would, I would also support option three.. Does anybody want to make a motion at this point or other thoughts.

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Hal hallstein: happy to make a motion. curt brown, osbt:, to adopt a very.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. I would second house motion.

G

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Curt brown, osbt:, he called the role here.

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Curt brown, osbt: how you get to vote on your own motion.

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hal hallstein:. I approve it., curt, brown,, osbt:, okay, karen.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: yes. dave, kuntz,, osbt:, dave. yes.

B

Curt brown, osbt: caroline., curt, brown,, osbt: yes, and kurt boats. yes. leah.. We are unanimous unanimously in favor of option three.

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Curt brown, osbt:, thank you to the board and thank you to the staff.. I also want to.

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Curt brown, osbt:. I want to take a trip back to the memory lane here, just for a minute to have a meeting at the north pole direct center. That was really, really big karen. That may have been one of your first meetings as a board member.

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Curt brown, osbt: is that right or you curt brown, osbt: know, maybe maybe that was, I was just on that just been appointed.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I was,, I was there,, but I'd already been on the board. A year.

B

B

curt brown,, osbt: anyway,. I just want to give a shout out to dan burke, who stepped in and took responsibility for things and allow this process to move ahead. Incorporate the public's concerns,, but keep things going in a positive direction and get staff, the opportunity to.

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Curt brown, osbt: re engage on these issues. and I think that really made it possible for us to get where we are so.

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Curt brown, osbt: kudos.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, I'd like to echo that. and thank you very much, dan,. I do think we've got to a good place.

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Cob, dan burke:, but I appreciate that and that provides me a great segue, because before we left this., I just wanted to thank casey, who,, as you can imagine, right after that meeting approach in case and say, hey,, we got a great job.. We got a big project.

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Cob, dan burke: and- and we really felt like she was.

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Cob, dan burke: the one to take this on, and so she she took a project that was basically tattered and torn and pieces back together. So.

D

Cob, dan burke:, thanks for the kudos,, but I just want to pass those things right on to casey,, who has really done a great job and and really into allison. excellent..

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Cob, dan burke: provided a great segue to our community and has been helping to facilitate community conversations.. There's a lot of people to think,, but.

D

Cob, dan burke: a couple of shout outs to casey and allison, in particular, for sort of hopping in the fray with me and- and I think everybody will agree and community,, including the community members that were sort of coming out. The end.

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Cob, dan burke: in a great spot., so thank you.

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Curt brown, osbt:. Thank you. Casey. thank you. allison.

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Cob, dan burke: we're going to stick with one of them like area for one minute because, as part of our monthly email sort of update on other things, open space.

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Cob, dan burke:, we are thinking of including this item., but since we were going to be talking wondering like, anyway,, I just asked john, if you wouldn't mind, just giving us a brief update on some.

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Cob, dan burke: management actions that are going to be occurring in the area.. We didn't want to confuse it with the isp because it really is totally separate.

D

Cob, dan burke:, but since we're talking one and then like, rather than putting in an email update, we thought duncan provides a quick update, here.

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John potter, cob:, yeah. and thanks, dan. and just quickly board.. We wanted to inform you about some routine maintenance work that will occur.

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John potter, cob: on the wonderland late damn next week and like dan said,. This is not part of the isp that casey was just discussing, but open space.

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John potter, cob: open space mountain parks, careers plan to remove for non native crack willow trees that are downslope of the wonderland lake, damn starting next monday. if the weather cooperates and if our wildlife impact assessment is favorable.

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John potter, cob:, this is sort of part of routine maintenance for small earth and dams to prevent trees from routing into them,, which can weaken the stability of the damn over time and.

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John potter, cob: the state damn safety engineers identified these trees at the tone of the wonderland, lake. damn.

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John potter, cob: as requiring removal to meet state damn safety, requirements., so there'll, be crews out, there, and there'll be cutting and shipping each tree on site.

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John potter, cob:, so you'll hear chain saws and chipper, but they should be finished., but before the end of next week and just wanted the board and the community know that there will be ongoing work for damn safety, that people may see equipment and staff out on the site from time to time..

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Curt brown, osbt: go ahead, karen.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: you'll have some of those wonderful sandwich signs out there. right, so that they know why you're cutting down.

C

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John potter, cob: yes. karen and john potter, cob:. We will have the sandwich signs as well as staff prepared to speak with anyone that has concerns.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: great, thank you. dave, kuntz, osbt:. I thought you'd be home, I'm up the damn face, john to put them in the lake.. What's wrong with that.

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John potter, cob: we'll see dave,, probably not.,.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. Let me know.

B

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curt brown, osbt: thank you,, john and dan,. Do we want to take a five minute break.? It's a 15 before we start you on matters from the department.

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Cob, dan burke: sure.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay. to tear.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,. We will be in response to 820 minutes.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: how I love your hat.

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Hal hallstein: thank you,, karen.

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hal hallstein:. I appreciate it.

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Hal hallstein:, it's my dad's.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I was assuming that it just looks so new england.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: steve, are you still there.

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Cob, steve armstead: yes,, I am.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, if you put crack, will a logs into the water.. Did they sprout.

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Cob, steve armstead: question as a whoa,. I think they may have that potential to do so,, but we can check with john when he comes back on.

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Cob,, steve armstead:, the isp karen hollweg, osbt: talks about pulling logs. when you cut down trees,, putting karen hollweg, osbt: them into the lake and I,. The answer was clearly not. and I was assuming because they sprouted.

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Cob,, steve armstead: yeah, and probably with your inundating them underneath kind of the depths that they normally get. Some urge to and malaysia, not an issue, if you're sure.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's great.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I'm sorry we curt brown, osbt: are we've been joined by mr holmes. Here.

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Hal hallstein:, my dad's office is truly a piece of classic work.

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Curt brown, osbt: wow. fabulous.. You have to exert certain behaviors, when you go in there.

F

Hal hallstein:, you know,, they told him his lungs look perfect on his last cat scan and so he doubled down and bought all this pipe tobacco.

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Cob, dan burke:, you didn't take advice,, keep doing what you're doing right.

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Curt brown, osbt: wow.

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Hal hallstein:, it's I'll tell you, it's tough.. He did. he's the guy who showed me nature, um,. It's an interesting one.

B

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Curt brown, osbt: well,, it's great,. None of that was last.

F

Hal hallstein: yeah,, and I'm really glad to be here with you all here.

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Curt brown, osbt:, you are to think curt, brown, osbt: okay,. I think we are back now and dan. You you've got it.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, moving into the matters from the department. we've got one item and then a couple of verbal update after we're done.. But I'm going to turn things over to.

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Cob, dan burke: deputy director, steve armstead, who will introduce the next subject matter and our presenter and voice in sight monitor results is the subject matter. so steve,.

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Cob,, steve armstead:, thanks,, dan. dan and I just wanted to say a few things before we get in actually to the presentation and opportunity. For, you know, to discuss the results from our latest round of voice. Insight.

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Curt brown, osbt: tag monitor yes to cob,, steve armstead: again, just set some context around the overall topic that we're going to be venturing into over the coming months and just knowing that this topic.

S

Cob,, steve armstead: is pretty pretty loaded.. You know, it certainly we've engaged in conversation in the past,. It brings up a lot of ideas and questions.

S

Cob,, steve armstead:, but the reality too is we have a long history. With this program. we have a long history with voice insight., it's been part of our system for decades and it because of that. It actually also.

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Cob, steve armstead: gives us a history of adaptive management around it because we have lived with it for a while., we're also constantly looking at it in terms of.

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Cob,, steve armstead:: how does this opportunity, before the desired p experience that dog guardians are seeking and how does that experience fit within our system and how can we be successful over time., so some of that adaptive.

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Cob,, steve armstead: management started well, probably most significantly in the mid 90s, when we realized that there needs to be clarification in the city code about what the expectations of a dog's behavior in a guardians, control, abilities.

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Cob, steve armstead: needed to be kind of integrated into there's clarity for the rangers when they enforced it and clarity for visitors when they came in and.

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Cob, steve armstead: wanted to know how do I meet the terms of voice inside control., so that was kind of our first evolution in what voice inside control was.

S

Cob, steve armstead:, they had another big kind of shift and change with the adoption of the visitor masterplan and at that point, the implementation of the voice, insight tag, program.

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Cob,, steve armstead: and so, you know, again, kind of an adaptive step in one of the.

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Cob, steve armstead:, I think helpful things that came forth out of the visitor master plan was a recognition that we had to really make sure we aligned monitoring is one of our inputs into our adaptive decision. Making.

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Cob,, steve armstead:, and so we did kind of assign and have aligned monitoring, went along with the program.

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Cob, steve armstead: and that led to yet another kind of adaptive step with the program back in 2012, 13 and kind of some. Finally, finalization of decisions and changes in the program and 14 that went live in 2015. That again.

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Cob,, steve armstead: was accompanied by another round of monitoring,, which is some of the results. Will here tonight.? So I think it's just good to keep in mind,. We do have a long, history. there's a long.

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Cob,, steve armstead: road of work in probably work ahead of us is we continue to think about this program and make sure we're making adjustments to it that make help it meet the goals of the program and be a good sustainable compliment to our system..

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Cob,, steve armstead:, so to get into this conversation. you know, we've got kind of a series of rolling out information to the board because it's a complex program.. It has a lot of different facets.

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Cob,, steve armstead: and we've kind of already staged some of the information and we'll be talking in the coming months about more were first step into. It was just a.

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Cob, steve armstead: notification in the board back in august, about the fact that we would be covering this topic through a series of.

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Cob, steve armstead:, rolling out information. and then last month we shared with you some information update about just the.

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Cob, steve armstead: the registration process in the fact that, with a coven implications,, we've had the voice inside class be being offered online.

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Cob, steve armstead:, and then we also gave you the first touch of the voice, insight monitoring information,, knowing that it's a lot to take in.

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Cob,, steve armstead:, and that kind of that would lead into tonight's conversation to hear about those results in offer an opportunity to discuss those results.

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Cob, steve armstead: that will then lead us into next month,, where again, staff will provide a lot of other information about the program,, giving you information around.

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Cob, steve armstead: the range of experience, enforcement,, the administration of the program.. What we've been learning? How we've been moving forward with the educational aspects of the program,, including the class.

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Cob,, steve armstead: the financial aspects of the program.. We know we also have a lot of survey information we've collected over time., so we want to try to be able to.

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Cob, steve armstead: provide that information.. So that's some information will share out in written format in november.

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Cob, steve armstead:, following up in december, with an opportunity for staff to present some of the highlights of that information and engage with the board again with an opportunity for.

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Cob, steve armstead: dialogue around that and the real goal here for then is for us to be able to have a foundation of information that we can go into,. I think. ideally, the latter part of the first quarter of next year.

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Cob, steve armstead: to actually really engage them in the conversation of wealth.. Now with this information., where does that then a lead.? Where do we need to now focus our efforts around the program.

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Cob,, steve armstead: and so, you know,, we really do want to spend the time to build the information based, but we do have some work ahead about discussing what's next, and I think.

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Cob, steve armstead:, as we talk about that. what,, what's next., I do want to be clear that a one of the things staff will be thinking about will hear ideas,, even just as we talked about stuff., but when we get into that.

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Cob,, steve armstead: conversation,, it's going to be very important for us to be thinking about what are those actions that we can take that are already consistent with policy guidance.

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Cob,, steve armstead: or within plan guidance, and those may be some things we can more adaptive lee take action on in a more immediate timeframe.

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Cob,, steve armstead: and also kind of be tracking if there are other ideas that are starting to percolate, that may require a review of policy or maybe even a change. Policy.

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Cob, steve armstead: that we may also have to start keeping in mind that, that we may require us to look at, well,. What's the process involved with reviewing assessing a policy change.

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Cob, steve armstead: and that may or may also actually need us to check in with council to clarify the they're comfortable with us going down change.. So I'm just setting the stage that will be tracking kind of the idea of.

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Cob, steve armstead: being able to make sure we know that some things may be already clear policy and we'll have a is your gateway to go through and maybe make some some changes.. Others may take even more thought and time to figure out the right process. Steps.

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Cob, steve armstead:, so, um., but all that said,, I think,. What kind of that tonight's really kind of going to help with with help us with is to share at least the foundation of monitoring information that we've been working on collecting.

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Cob, steve armstead:, but in saying that, too.. I think it's really important to keep an open mind to what we hear from the monitoring results, because I.

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Cob, steve armstead:, I think as we as individuals. oftentimes, see, results may be cast as monitoring and it's doesn't align with what our own perceptions.

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Cob,, steve armstead: are in the system may or may line with what we'd like or dislike about the program,. But the benefit of the monetary results is to provide at least.

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Cob,, steve armstead:, a subset of objective information that, with all the other information will be presenting and talking about, gives us an ability to reflect about the program and help us.

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Cob,, steve armstead:, maybe fine, where there's areas, we think, oh,. This is a good area to pay attention to and maybe an area to focus on, for maybe some adaptive changes to.

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Cob, steve armstead: and be thoughtful about the amount of effort, it's going to take.. Is that worth bad effort as well. well,? The results get us the effort, the right outcome.

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Cob,, steve armstead:, so I'm talking about monitoring and we're not trying to invalidate the experiences.. People have good, bad in our system.

S

Cob, steve armstead:, but it does at least give us an objective set of information that we can also rely upon in our decision. Making.

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Cob,, steve armstead:, so with that,, I'm going to turn it over to column leslie,, one of our human dimensions, coordinators, who is our lead on the.

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Cob,, steve armstead:, voice, insight, monitoring and he'll walk us through the results that we've been able to compile over the last couple of years of monitoring.. So with that column, floors, yours.

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Cob,, steve armstead:, you just need your mic off returned on.

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Curt brown, osbt: allison., I don't know if you're seeing calling needs to be unmuted.

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Alison ecklund,, cob:, okay, try now palin.

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Curt brown, osbt:, okay., alison, ecklund, cob:, all right there.. You must have gotten off and back on. yeah,. Let's.

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Colin leslie, cob: go for a few they're colin leslie, cob: great.. So before I before I pop out the presentation., it's been a while, since I've been to been to a board meeting since before they were virtual. So for those who don't know me calling leslie,, I work with our human dimensions. Program.. I started with those mp in 20.

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Colin leslie, cob: I'm losing track now.

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colin leslie, cob:. It's been about five years., so I inherited the management of this monitoring program for its second and third cycles..

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Colin leslie,, cob: and tonight, this is, are going to be a wrap up of everything that we have collected and generally learned over, over the last six years, which involve three rounds of of monitoring.

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Colin leslie, cob: so, colin leslie, cob:. These were conducted every two years.

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Colin leslie, cob:, and to just give you a sense of how I'm going to flow this presentation tonight, going to do a very, very brief overview in review of the voice, insight, program. and really,. The two large monitoring components. we had both before and after the tag program enhancements were enacted.

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Colin leslie, cob: a little bit about what the monitoring program is itself and sort of the foundations for the monitoring program. And then we can go ahead and dive into the actual report. Itself,, which I know has been shared with all of you,. But.

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Colin leslie, cob: quick overview of sort of how we did the work. the methods,. Some of the high level results. Far too many are included in a 15 minute, 20 minute, presentation.

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Colin leslie, cob: and then some of our research recommendations, as steve said, alluded to, not yet into policy recommendations, because that's part of a larger discussion,, but more specifically, what we have learned.

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Colin leslie, cob: in actually implementing the monitoring and some of the takeaways from that., and then we can, of course, wrap it up with some time for some discussion and questions.

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Colin leslie, cob:, so as a little review of the tag program. If we start with the visitor masterplan in 2005, which is by no means the start of voice and site as a management.

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Colin leslie, cob: regulation, where opportunity on open space lands. there were sort of three cycles of monitoring.

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Colin leslie, cob: thousand seven in 2010 and, ultimately,, and that was that was with the launch of the tag program., so actually, requiring.

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Colin leslie, cob: in this case, people to colin leslie, cob: to get some information about the voice inside tag program and then by a tag.

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Colin leslie, cob: round 2011, there was a request from city council to assess the tag program that eventually led into some tag program revisions. and the big thing that I want to.

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Colin leslie, cob: want to recap here is that that was a pretty hefty engagement process that lasted quite a long time. That included.

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Colin leslie, cob: a lot of staff and external subject matter: expert review of the program; pretty extensive public process, a lot of input from the open space board of trustees and then ultimately, city council, approval for the tag program, enhancements themselves.

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Colin leslie, cob: there's also a pretty big review process towards the end of that period for how the monitoring program itself was designed.

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Colin leslie, cob: that particular piece didn't really go through city council approval process,, but it went through the three other major components and that's that's really. What led us to both the program design and the monitoring design that we have implemented over the last six years.

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Colin leslie, cob: since then,, like I said,, we've done monitoring in 2014 2016 in.

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Colin leslie, cob:, and it might not be super apparent on that timeline,, but each one of those time periods. got a little bit longer, as we were able to invest more resources in upping our sampling, effort.

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Colin leslie, cob:, and what the program was, what the monitoring or sorry, the tag program goals which were similar.

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Colin leslie, cob: to the original voice inside tag program goals,, but these are what were part of the enhancement were to increase the proportion of dog guardians.

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Colin leslie, cob:, who had control over their dogs by by the applicable regulations,. There was a visitor experience component to it., and then there was also a natural resource conservation component.

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Colin leslie, cob: and the monitoring measures touched on all three of these,, but really what they focused on was evaluating these through the standpoint of direct interactions between.

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Colin leslie,, cob: guardians or or visitor groups with dogs and other things that could be other visitor groups, wildlife.

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Colin leslie, cob: other other specific resources, and so is really about those direct interactions.. This wasn't to sort of do a comprehensive resource. Assessment,, it didn't have a survey component.. It was really focused on what sort of what's transpiring when opportunities arise and.

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Colin leslie, cob: dogs have an opportunity to interact with something.

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Colin leslie, cob:, one of the biggest changes from the 2006 to 2010 monitoring and the most recent set of monitoring was a revision to.

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Colin leslie, cob: really focus on the regulatory foundations for the voice insight program, as well as other dog management regulations within the boulder revised code.

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Colin leslie, cob: did include some components of certain courtesy, etiquette things which might relate to to conflict.

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Colin leslie, cob: that was,, that was a criticism of the first monitoring period and something that was pretty heavily revising the second so.

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Colin leslie, cob: this everything that we evaluated in this monitoring program was essentially tied back to a regulatory.

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Colin leslie, cob: to a regulation., so things like charging and chasing and otherwise displaying aggressive behavior. those can be towards people.

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Colin leslie, cob: towards other dogs towards wildlife and livestock, and then there was the recall component, which is part of the voice and site.

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Colin leslie, cob:, which is the ability of the guardian to to stop their dog from doing something or to recall it back to them., and so those really formed the foundations of all the definitions that we use for our observational coding. In this.

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Colin leslie, cob:, and if anybody wants to see that I have, I have a slide at the very end, I can show,. But those were also in the report that, for each one of those behaviors were were defined and related to one of these codes.

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Colin leslie, cob: alright. so jumping into some of the monitoring itself,. The measures that we focused on were visible voice inside tag display.

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Colin leslie, cob: and compliance with carrying a leash on your person for voice insight trails that was only done in 2014, had pretty high rates of compliance.

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Colin leslie, cob: and we thought we could better, invest those resources and trying to observe some of the other measures.

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Colin leslie, cob: in those first two,. The thing I want to point out about those is: that's really: administrative, compliance. right.. That's not a skills based compliance. That's going through the class meeting. All the requirements of the voice inside program purchasing the tag. Renewing it each year.

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Colin leslie, cob: so that's,, that's an administrative compliance.. The rest of these are more in skills based compliance. They they rely on the guardian, either paying attention or a certain level of training with the dog. so, kim dogs with insight.

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Colin leslie, cob: off leash dogs being under voice and site control. That was further defined as as responding to recall, commands, which was pretty narrowly defined, as sort of either need to include comer here, and that was that was done to.

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Colin leslie, cob: to sort of filter out potential other words that the guardians might use to simply talk to their dogs, no charging or chasing or otherwise display aggression.

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Colin leslie, cob:, so we sort of had a had an aggregated definition of what aggressive aggression might be. There were certain certain key, key features. We were looking for. and that was developed through a lot of.

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Colin leslie, cob: lot of review, with both dog trainers and other doggy and sort of the dog ecology. Literature which is which is the dog behavior literature.

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Colin leslie, cob: now charging are chasing wildlife and livestock, not having more than two dogs per off leash or two off least dogs per guardian..

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Colin leslie, cob: then,, not so directly related to voice and site,, but something that we were able to implement as part of just general dog, management. right.

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Colin leslie, cob:, the other trails, were, of course, that aren't voice insight where dogs are allowed, our least required trails, and we have some.

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Colin leslie, cob: some voice inside trails that seasonally become leash and leash ricard trails.. So we had a method to assess proportions of dogs that were on and off leash and weather, and what the composition of tag display was for those.

T

Colin leslie, cob: and then in colin leslie, cob:. We also replicated that method of on leash off leash and tag no tag on voice inside trails,. So not.

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Colin leslie, cob: that component didn't look at the behavioral part, which was,, which was another method that we're using voice inside trails,. But we wanted to get sort of a complete picture of all dogs on voice inside trails,, not just those that were off leash.

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Colin leslie, cob:, so the methods that we used. we had a little over at defined observation zones.. These were all documented in the field there digitized in gis and they what they are, is there continuous fields of view where a visitor group entering one point onto the system can traverse through this.

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Colin leslie, cob: the section of trail through which they can potentially have opportunities to interact with other visitor groups, wildlife livestock, depending on the areas or issue commands back and forth, or to their dog, so that we were able to assess the outcomes of these. Of these events.

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Colin leslie, cob: we,, we provided all of our field technicians with these field, maps., so on a on a site by site basis and across all three monitoring. Cycles. everything was conducted over the same.

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Colin leslie, cob: the same area in the same distance,, the least status monitoring was pretty similar.. If you look at that purple dot down on the on the bottom portion of that map,, you just imagine a line extending straight across that trail.

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Colin leslie, cob: that was conducted as a as a line transact trying to transact a visitor group would walk across it and we record visitor attributes such as number of people. In the group.- the activity.

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Colin leslie, cob: the parents. Activity of the group.: how many dogs were on leash. how many dogs were off leash and then associated tag status for for each of those categories.

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Colin leslie, cob:, our study area was pretty expansive across the system we had at one voice and site locations, 32 permanently locations and then eight seasonally sites.

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Colin leslie, cob:, these were limited by about a 60 minute, hiking distance from the trail that was done for two reasons. one, visitation generally tends to taper off, of course,. The further in you go, and also just for.

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Colin leslie, cob: sampling efficiency of not having to have technician, spend too long, simply getting to a monitoring. Site.

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Colin leslie, cob: and this map in the in the web, based version is, is interactive.. You can zoom in, click on a point and it will pop up and tell you how many observations were made across all three years at that location.

T

Colin leslie, cob: so before I get into some of the compliance measures, just wanted to highlight that we do pay attention to our sample composition.. We want to know both who were.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, who were capturing in this, and certainly how that compares to our visitation data as well as making sure that we're randomizing across.

T

Colin leslie, cob: times of the day., there are other ways we can look at this,, make sure we're randomizing across all the months that we're doing it so that.

T

Colin leslie, cob: we're not. we're not getting in a biased sample in time or space to any particular location of the system.. So the graph on the left there. it's really just there to say, you know,, we sampled, all, basically all daylight hours of the day from sunup to sundown.

T

Colin leslie,, cob: and in terms of activity type,, the vast majority of the visitor groups observed where hikers runners were the second most.

T

Colin leslie, cob: most frequent group and then bikers fall off a little bit. More. they're less.

T

Colin leslie, cob: their lower proportion than what we see in general and that likely just has to do with the general difficulty of biking with a dog.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, although some people, obviously can, and do,, do it.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, so there are a lot of results. there's a lot more detail in the report itself,. But some of the things that I wanted to highlight.

T

Colin leslie, cob: from the voice inside observations tag, compliance has increased over the years to about 82% and that's the administrative requirement of displaying to tag.

T

Colin leslie, cob: so it's,, it's definitely an increase 82% as a ratio,. You know,. That means that it's about four and five groups that that have the tag properly displayed.

T

Colin leslie, cob: non compliant behavior outcomes are in frequent.

T

Colin leslie, cob: when they do or colin leslie, cob: when they do occur.. So what we know is that when, when we are observing visitor groups,, a little, little over half of the visitor groups that we observed actually had an opportunity to interact with something while they were being observed.

T

Colin leslie, cob: those, those opportunities can lead to either what we call passes,, which means none of the behaviors. We were interested in were displayed by either group during the interaction or it can lead.

T

Colin leslie,, cob: or sorry, during the opportunity, or it can lead to an interaction,, which means at least one of the behaviors, was displayed either by the dog were observing or the other visitor party.

T

Colin leslie,, cob: or command was issued,, so non compliant. Behavior outcomes were pretty infrequent and a non compliant behavioral outcome would be, for example, aggressive display towards the other visitor party or charging and chasing wildlife.

T

Colin leslie, cob: voice, recall colin leslie,. Cob: is a little lower little under 80%.. So one of the caveats with voice recall is: we can only assess its success when a recall command is issued to the dog.. So that's a slight that's a sort of a subset of, of the overall.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, saying sample size that we that we observed in in those sample sizes are available in the report, they're, still large enough that we feel pretty confident about this voice. Recall percentage.

T

Colin leslie, cob:. The last thing that I want to point out is that wildlife is is very rarely conspicuous at at most of our locations., and what I mean by this is, is not that.

T

Colin leslie, cob: wildlife is necessarily not present,, but certainly large wildlife like deer, are generally generally absent at most of our locations.. During most of the observation times,.

T

Colin leslie, cob: things like like birds and small mammals,, while also present generally aren't within the proximity of.

T

Colin leslie, cob: of the trail. we had flushed distances,, which were all based on scientific literature, so that if, if a bird.

T

Colin leslie, cob: if a bird did flush, while visitor party was walking by,. We would know whether or not to attribute that to the dog, to the visitor, groups, presidents and and potentially the dogs presence or not.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, the least status, is the other major component that we look at. The key findings from here is that leash overall.

T

Colin leslie, cob: compliance with having dogs on leash on leash required trails has been relatively consistent about. 80% 80% is generally within the realm of.

T

Colin leslie, cob: what pure agencies like boulder county also see in general across their,, their properties.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, seasonal, leash compliance is is lower at around 60%., and so these are trails that are voice inside during a portion of the year, but become seasonally leash required during other times of the year, there's one trail that becomes leash required because of grassland nesting, birds.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, and there are seven trails that become leash required for fall, bear foraging,, or at least that's the.. That was the original purpose that they were seasonally least required.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, because we replicated this on voice insight trails in 2018. We were able to get a more complete picture of sort of what overall compliance is with having dogs on leash. if they don't have a voice inside tag.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, if they're off leash,, whether or not they're, properly displaying the tag. and what we're seeing is that compliance is.

T

Colin leslie, cob: 9% on average across voice inside trails.

T

Colin leslie, cob:. This also helped answer a couple of questions that we just previously, never,, never really had a sense of what the answer might be.

T

Colin leslie, cob:: that's that about 40% of dogs on voice insight. Trails are in fact on leash at any given time.

T

Colin leslie, cob: and have, and and about 17% of those of the dogs on voice and site trails, are on leash and have a voice inside tag.. So there definitely are voice insight program, participants that do choose to keep their dogs on leash,, at least from time to time on voice and say trails.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, the last thing I'll point out is that that that plot up on the right there., that's just to show that while we get in.

T

Colin leslie, cob: we have this was a randomized sample and we didn't necessarily get large sample sizes for individual lot of individual sites.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, I did look at any location where we had at least 10 observations or 10 visitor groups observed for that location.

T

Colin leslie, cob: and of course, there's a range of compliance depending on what on what trail. you are so you're on.. So within each category, compliance, definitely, definitely varies a little bit from location to location,. Although we don't have large enough sample sizes to compare every location.

T

T

Colin leslie, cob: now,, I know there.. There have been some questions that have come up on adaptive, management.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, we use this term sir gets applied in two different ways.. So I wanted to touch on this because the 2005 visitor master plan did did have some proposed standards in it.

T

Colin leslie, cob: as far as compliance with with dod control and excrement removal, requirements.

T

Colin leslie, cob:: that's how it was stated from a sort of formal capital, a adaptive management standpoint.. What are the challenges with that? Is that it's a composite standard., and so it didn't identify specific measures to evaluate.

T

Colin leslie, cob: one of the things that we certainly hope these results and future information will will.

T

Colin leslie,, cob: or discussion that this might spur. is that not all control measures may be of equal concern or consequence. There wasn't a sort of prioritization laid out in the visitor master plan.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, and so really what that leads to is that currently,, we don't have sort of a suite of. If then statements, you know if, if we measure some some particular measure- and it comes out at a certain level than what do we do.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, so there aren't those those predefined feedback loops,, although there may be opportunities for those.

T

Colin leslie, cob: the opportunity that we really see here is that we really think we now have a very robust or a system wide.

T

Colin leslie, cob: assessment of conditions.

T

Colin leslie, cob: yes,, there are some locations where wildlife encounters might be more frequent or compliance might be lower.. But in terms of.

T

Colin leslie, cob: the large number of miles of trails that we that we manage these results or give us a generalized assessment of what goes on on a day to day. Basis..

T

Colin leslie, cob: and then some of the discussion that we that we certainly hope to spur is.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, you know, what are,? What are those systemic issues versus those localized issues, because those will have different management interventions or potential management interventions to address them.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, what is some prioritization of measures or or the certain different aspects of dog management.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, because associated with that is this question of cost benefit for both management interventions and monitoring. Across all three years, we've conducted a little over 2000 hours, combined observation time in the field.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, depending on the year and the scale of our program that equates to,. You know, two to three technicians,, which could be upwards of 50 40%.

T

Colin leslie, cob: of our of our program capacity., so this type of monitoring is, is resource intensive,, although at this at this time., there's really sort of no alternative to get a lot of this. This field observation, information.,.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, so that really sort of leads us into our future.

T

Colin leslie, cob: research, recommendations. again,, not not immediately into the policy realm., but if we were to sort of pair this monitoring with management interventions in the future., what are some things that we should be thinking about.? That's that as it's currently operationalize the behavioral component.

T

Colin leslie, cob: is not optimized for detecting any specific behavior, right, and tried to capture pretty large suite of behaviors.

T

Colin leslie, cob: the least status observation understanding how the proportion, dogs that are on and off leash and how many have a tag and don't have a tag, is a bit more efficient,. Just from the number of visitor groups that we can observe over a period of time when we're out.

T

Colin leslie, cob: and that, as we think, about potential management actions that we may want to take in the future.

T

Colin leslie, cob: what are the,? What is the very specific issue or issues that we think we can address and the more the more targeted those management interventions are can be.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, we can better think about an estimate, the effect size which is sir, what's,. What's the change that we are thinking, we can even get by a particular management intervention,, because that really plays into.

T

Colin leslie, cob: how much monitoring needs to be done in order to verify whether or not that change actually took place.

T

Colin leslie, cob: and then again,, it's just it's back to that cost benefit and the closer we sort of approach that that higher percentage compliance within any particular measure,. You know, generally, the higher the cost.. It's going to be to move that move that needle.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, so things that tend to fall on the lower end or a little bit more in the middle,. You know those may be the ones that that are more prime for for thinking about management, interventions.,.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, but colin leslie, cob: I'll go over this super quick., just as a reminder,. We do have more information coming in the future.. The monitoring report is certainly not.

T

Colin leslie, cob: the entirety of the voice, insight program or what we know about the voice inside program,, but it is, it is really sort of the most comprehensive assessment,. We have of these direct interactions that occur in the field.

T

Colin leslie, cob: and with that, I will end it and open it up for any discussions or questions.

B

Curt brown, osbt:. How soon can we go back to the matrix view, here.

A

Alison ecklund, cob: yep., if colin.

A

alison, ecklund, cob:, just shares his screen.

E

T

Colin leslie, cob:, alright matrix of.

B

Curt brown, osbt: oh, sorry. no,, I'm sorry. karen hollweg, osbt:, so we can see in hollywood.

P

Colin leslie, cob: there we go.

B

Curt brown, osbt: column. thanks, it's,, it's a very interesting report and I get big points,. Anybody that uses statistical power, analysis. so, way to go.

B

Curt brown,, osbt:, okay. oh, who's got the first questions for calling.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, so calm. thanks for that.. I think you know your your discussion of the standard and kind of the ambiguity.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: around standards.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, I think the expectation initially early on was that exactly what you're doing. so that in fact the monitoring would start informing.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know what the standards needed to be., so I think it's,, it's probably taken longer than any of us expected,, but certainly it's going in the right, direction. and so good for you and for everyone, that's working on it that I think, is really important..

E

Colin leslie, cob: thank you.

B

Curt brown, osbt: I'll throw in a question.

B

Curt brown,, osbt: and I'm sure you're thinking about this, all the time,, but it just at the impression I have is that you probably have more monitoring sites and you're getting payoff from.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, given that it dilutes you know the power of examining any individual, site, and I,. I just assume that you're, considering whether you should be consolidating your observations in.

B

Curt brown, osbt: significantly fewer sites still having, you know, types of locations, but not maybe as many in order to get a bigger bang out of your observational book.. But what you're thinking.

T

Colin leslie, cob: yeah,, we do have a pretty large number of sites.. I think a lot of that is reflection of the fact that there was a lot of uncertainty,, even in the second round of monitoring as to as to how widely distributed. some of these behaviors of interest were both in in space and time..

T

Curt brown, osbt: right now, variable. colin leslie, cob: and how variable. they are so there is. There is some more opportunity we can. We can do to go back and look at.

T

Colin leslie, cob: look at the sample as a whole.. We do know that there are some locations which, consistently across years, we had very few observations.

T

Curt brown, osbt: add right, yeah, of course, that colin leslie, cob: we do have more observations.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, because there's sort of so many measures.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, the question of variability also comes down somewhat to measures,. There are certain sites.. We have may have a lot of interactions or opportunities for interactions.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, but the majority of them are sort of passes where there may be other locations which have slightly fewer opportunities,, but those do result in more interactions,, not necessarily non compliant outcomes,, but just more interaction., so, sort, of, again, there's some potential refinement. There.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, as we start discussions about which measures, you know, we may want to.

T

Colin leslie, cob: think about going forward., colin leslie, cob: right.

B

Curt brown, osbt: thanks. okay, karen.. Did you have your hand up.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah,, I'm just., just an observation colon over the last 3040 years. The places where we used to have large population of deers.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: have a large deer populations, have.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: banished because of dog use, and and so I'm not surprised to hear you say you don't see.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: wildlife, interaction. um,, my question is,.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, when you I read the full report and when you described within sight.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, my understanding of what you wrote, is that it was with insight, when it was ahead of the person.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, but there are a lot of dogs that go off trail and around to the side and behind the person., and my sense was that you didn't. you didn't capture that.. Is that correct, at least that's the way? I read your full report.

T

Colin leslie, cob: so within sight,, and I can go back and check it,, but it was defined as being within a 360 degree view. So not not that the guardian was was looking.

T

Colin leslie, cob: directly or immediately at the dog, but basically, if they turned around in a circle., would they be able to to see the dog.? So was it not obscured by vegetation or topography, or something like that.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: okay,, so it measured whether it would have been possible for the guardian to have actually seen the dog,, not if they were seeing the dog. correct.

B

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: we're still kind of wallowing around in prairie dogs.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, even if we're not talking about them specifically tonight., but my question: is,.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, it strikes me and what I seen kind of on out on the ground is that when the trails are in or through, prairie dog towns or prairie dogs are occupied along the trail that that's probably the highest wildlife interaction.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: possibility that that's really out there., and so my question is,, do you have a notion of how many trails kind of it were in prairie dog towns? Or, you know, kind of get prairie dogs is the associated wildlife.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, I'm remembering correctly, it was,. It was only two or three.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, but two is what actually comes to mind both.

T

Colin leslie, cob: two locations that met all the rest of the criteria and then happened also overlap with prairie dog colonies. right.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: well,, I think just from experience dogs are.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: usually attracted to pretty dog's name slow. If there's an opportunity for misbehavior.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:. That's definitely prominent. One.

B

Curt brown,, osbt: third thoughts or comments,. It's the board's gotten fairly quiet, here.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's not clear to me what.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, our discussion tonight is supposed to be about steve, defined the things that it was not about.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and I'm not sure where the boundaries are, that we are supposed to be going tonight.

S

Curt brown, osbt: see cob, steve, armstead: well,. Let me just say care., and I think this is really an opportunity to understand with calling because he's he's.

S

Cob,, steve armstead:, probably the best person to really interpret or help us understand what we've learned from the monitoring.

S

Cob,, steve armstead: so really, that is. that's the goal., and so I think, if there's questions or to make sure we have the understanding of.

S

Cob,, steve armstead: how that information was obtained and what we might understand from the information. here's a chance to really dive dive into it won't be our last chance by any means,, but certainly it's kind of this this moment to focus on this aspect of the program.

C

Curt brown, osbt: well, karen hollweg, osbt:, I'd like to hear more than about the seasonal leash observations.

T

Colin leslie, cob: sure.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, only one of karen hollweg, osbt:, only one slight grassland nesting, birds, site, seasonal.

T

Colin leslie, cob: correct., so we have. We have some other area closures,, but there is only one trail itself, which actually changes. Designation.

T

Colin leslie, cob: green belt plateau,, so.

T

Colin leslie, cob: dowdy draw.. There is also an area closer.

T

Colin leslie, cob: into that trail on one side, the trail itself remains voice and site.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, the other,, the other locations were originally created as as seasonal, leash closers for fault bear foraging.

T

Colin leslie, cob: dar some some questions as to whether or not those are still the most appropriate sites for for bear foraging.

T

Colin leslie, cob: that being said,, they do switch to that seasonal leash requirements and because each sample was was randomized. We we don't have a.

T

Colin leslie, cob: good site to site comparison to see whether or not appliance itself really changes or, if or if those seasonal least sites or serve always operating in that 60%.

T

Colin leslie, cob: arena overall colin leslie, cob:, but that that result,, even though.

T

Colin leslie, cob: 2014 was was actually just green belt plateau, because the monitoring was conducted early in the year 2016.

T

Colin leslie, cob: only captured the the fall.

T

Colin leslie, cob: seasonal closures capture all despite that, the the percentages were sort of all in that same 60%, ballpark.

S

B

Curt brown, osbt: caroline., you had your hand up.

E

Curt brown, osbt:, you're muted.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I think I'm not now. yeah, thank you. column for that presentation.. That was really good.. Just a couple of questions.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I think they kind of tie in together.. Do you ever receive feedback from the participants of the program.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, and if you do,, is that, typically by email or,, you know,, how are you guys communicating with each other and then I didn't know if anyone had ever discussed self reporting or self regulating.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, so maybe drawing up a sample and sending out an email saying,. You know, hey, this week,. When you walk your dog.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know,, can you report back on a, b and c. I don't know if either of those things have ever happened.

T

Colin leslie, cob: um,, so with the second one., I'm not,, I'm not aware of anything. That's ever been been implemented like that.

T

Colin leslie, cob: to your first question,. There is a there is an ongoing survey which has been live since the since the voice. Insight class was enacted as a requirement.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, we have not colin leslie, cob:, run statistics on that, on that survey. Feedback.

T

Colin leslie, cob: super recently,, but it's something that we do look at from from time to time.

T

Colin leslie, cob:. I need to touch base with a couple of my co workers on that, because I have an access to directly,, but we do have that. and it's a it's a survey that goes out to every voice inside class participant.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah,, I was just wondering if there was a forum or if anyone had ever thought of having a forum where the voice insight participants can discuss things with each other that they're seeing on the trail.. They can talk about particular trails and maybe it's an option to kind of self regulate.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, so similarly,, I'm.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, often when we have management questions., one of the things we do. and this is sort of take off before caroline was going,. I think.

B

Curt brown, osbt: is. We talked to the people that.

B

Curt brown, osbt: are on the trails and we asked them,. Are you aware of this.? Are you aware of that.

B

Curt brown, osbt: to try to get some sense of what the issues are leading to their behavior or potentially, where what areas of investment would be most.

B

Curt brown, osbt: useful to try to improve compliance and things like that., so I know you're trying to bring a lot of different data to bear on this whole issue of how does that type of data get into this,? Does it come from visitor surveys, or is it more from ranger interactions or what.

T

Colin leslie, cob: probably depends a little bit on the topic and a little bit on the location.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, a lot of our questions on surveys over the last few years, have generally focused on sort of the quality of interactions between visitor groups.. So the onsite survey includes questions,, ranging from.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, you know conflict of experience to a positive experience. and that's across all different potential activity, types that people encountered on that day.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, both the resident survey and the master plan survey, have asked questions about potential dog management issues, we're currently sort of compiling a summary that'll that'll be forthcoming on on some of those. Some of those data sets.

T

Colin leslie, cob: there are some considerations and sort of how to interpret that. In the past we have conducted.

T

Colin leslie, cob: attitudinal surveys to on about dog management and the available on the on the reports page on the spt website. Now, as a topical survey specifically about dogs.

S

Cob, steve armstead:, interesting kurt,, I may just add to you actually were course you kind of offered a potential thing,. We may want to think about come, you know, q1,, and what do we do now is we're.

S

Cob,, steve armstead:, not my knowledge, send out a survey to the participants in the program over some time to ask some questions directly to them.

S

Cob,, steve armstead:, and you then maybe that's with our choices of where do we focus our efforts,, something we think would be meaningful or be a way to gain information. So.

E

Cob, steve armstead: yeah.

S

Cob,, steve armstead:, I've done that.. That could be one of these actions.. We choose to go down the path., so we'll make note of that., and certainly we could revisit that. and when we say, okay,. Where do we need to focus our time and attention. sure.

B

Curt brown, osbt: thanks,, dave., curt, brown,, osbt: dave.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: kalin., you know,, I think one of the things that is is of great interest to the board is trends.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: and I guess my question is your sense. Of, you know, kind of,, generally the factors that you know you're looking at in the monitoring, kind of,. What's the trend, direction.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: generally, and dave kuntz, osbt: the exam, or are there some specific.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: factors that you think needed to be need to be more focused on and I'm thinking,. Obviously, seasonal leash is one, but other some others that you think we need to be paying particular attention to as well.

T

Colin leslie, cob: yeah,, so I think the things that that probably stand out to me is that, even though tag display is that.

T

Colin leslie, cob: is that 82%, that's the one that has most notably increased over time.. That's also the one that sort of most. That's that's easiest for us to affect.

T

Colin leslie, cob: simply by getting people to participate in the program. the,. The rest of the behaviors right have have quite a,. Quite a range in terms of both the frequency that they occur.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, but also a fair number of them are, are somewhat sort of stable across time.. So within a certain margin of error,, you know,, there hasn't been a big change in in sir overall these compliance,, both on permanent or seasonal trails, and so.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, you know,, it doesn't doesn't leave us with necessarily whole lot of explanation of the why,, but it.

T

Colin leslie, cob: does sort of suggests that that's that's the percent compliance that were really probably working with it since it's almost been validated over three cycles.

B

Okay. curt brown,, osbt: caroline.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah,, you guys all might know this,, but I don't. is there a.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: increase your the in new applicants for the voice insight, like is there a 5% increase every year. just stay pretty constant.

S

Cob, steve armstead: I'll just answer that is that's. The type of input will share that in november and start talking about the levels of participation.. So that's information that will roll out later curlin, so great question. That's will prepare that that information for you. yeah.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: and then just along with that for for that discussion,, the renewal rate. If, if we find that the applicants are renewing every year., if that stayed constant as well.

S

Cob,, steve armstead: okay, we'll see what we can kind of pull out of the registration data and be able to do that. yeah.

B

Curt brown, osbt: karen.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: khan,, the excrement, pickup and removal.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's one of the things that we all observe, while we're out on trails is poop bags.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: talk a little bit more about whether there was any variation from we. We all went in.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:- I don't know 2030 years ago with the assumption that that leash trails would have better compliance with poop bags,, then voice insight,, just because the dog was within reach on a leash.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: I, is there any validity to that, based on your data, or what did you really learn about excrement, pickup and removal from your observations.

T

Colin leslie, cob: so for this monitoring, program. the excrement, pickup and removal of which both had to occur to be compliant with that measure.

T

Colin leslie, cob: was was easy to add on to the to the behavioral component.

T

Colin leslie, cob: of the observational monitoring does the arc of the compliance rates that we've seen for that are generally in the same realm of the pet waste. Pick up study.

T

Colin leslie, cob: funded research study that we contracted a couple years, back, which did stratify across leash, required and off off lease trails and for the.

T

Colin leslie, cob: for the handful of sites that were included in that there there was a difference.

T

Colin leslie, cob: remember, and write about 11% difference between.

T

Colin leslie, cob: on leash and off leash compliance with pickup removal.

T

Colin leslie, cob: I'd have to have to open up that report to validate that., but I do know that there was a difference.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, with with on leash being slightly higher compliance.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and I'm.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, with your observations with this monitoring study.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: anything noteworthy.

T

Colin leslie, cob: really just that, that the percent compliance that we observed on voice inside trails, when we had the opportunity to observe it, was right about in line with with what we observed during that funded research study.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, so poor compliance on voice insight trails than on leash trails. is that the correct.

T

Colin leslie, cob: yeah, about about 11% lower on average.

T

Colin leslie, cob: there are, you know, with that there are, you start getting too many variables in the mix., it's hard to control for all of them,, but there are questions about infrastructure, availability.,.

T

Colin leslie, cob: consistency of some of that infrastructure across the system,, both for having bags available and disposing of them.

T

Colin leslie, cob:, so there are, there are multiple components that can be looked at with the with some of those with that issue. In particular, to. yeah.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay., curt, brown,, osbt: well, thank you. and I know we're going to be seeing you again soon and.

B

Curt brown, osbt: steve,. I appreciate the sort of the overview of where we are,, where we're going.

B

Curt brown, osbt:. I think that gives a good sense of sort of the stages that we're going to go through and I'm I know, will continue to get some questions from the public, you know, relating to what should we be watching for next. But I thought that was very helpful. right. and we've.

S

Cob,, steve armstead: got lisa console. Those kind of our project leads throughout just the conversation around voice, insight and so she's making sure what will share and connect in with our stakeholders and having information available on our website. So people know kind of the path ahead.

E

Caroline miller, osbt: great.

B

Colin leslie, cob: all right. curt, brown, osbt: yeah, thank you.

D

Cob, dan burke: thanks., thanks., con. yeah,, just a reminder for anyone listening or you tuned in late so november, board packet will be written information to set up actual conversation for december. So.

D

Cob, dan burke: written a lot more written information on voice insight program it in november, and then a scheduled this december discussion under matters from the department. and then, of course,, we'll start to daylight.. What looks what quarter? One looks like for.

D

Cob, dan burke:, more board, conversation. so,. Just to reiterate what steve said in the beginning, in case anybody joined us late.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and before we go on.

C

cob, dan burke: um,, karen hollweg, osbt: this memo from our sep tember ninth packet, about what sounds to me like lots of problems during coven with how to deal with dog tags, um,.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, can you say anything about that.? Is that something that's going to change in 2021 or you're, just kind of waiting till the coven messes over or.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: tell us a little bit about what you're seeing happen with that.

D

Cob, dan burke: well,- I think I'll turn it over to steve since the sort of.

D

Cob, dan burke:, I test need to be everything dogs.

C

Cob, dan burke: blog question., I think I can. cob, dan burke: answer better than they have steve,. Do it because I know he'll ancillary.

D

Cob, dan burke: totally correctly.

S

Cob, steve armstead:, you know, in my first words the dam was. oh, thank you., damn.

S

Cob, steve armstead:, I do do appreciate actually the opportunity and karen, I think.

S

Cob,, steve armstead: there's a couple different aspects. one is for now in further as long as we can see, until things really change around coven is the education class will continue to be online., and so that has actually been relatively smooth, smooth. Yet that still may not be.

S

Cob,, steve armstead:, you know the best for people who, for whatever reason, an online learning opportunity. Just doesn't work for them. and we just don't have another way around that at this time.

S

Cob, steve armstead: the other aspect of courses that, with coven we don't have the ability for staff to come or the community to come to our church, event, or excuse me,. Our hub.

S

Cob, steve armstead: to get you know, questions answered, or certainly when we start renewing to have any assistance.

S

Cob, steve armstead: through that process, it will be online. You know at this point that we may, if there's any way to figure out another route. We may see what is possible, but.

S

Cob,, steve armstead:, it's probably unlikely, you know, we're going to be moving away from really the primary way of being online to register..

S

Cob,, steve armstead:, so that'll be the real importance,, but we've been shifting that way. anyway, over the last couple of years.. So I think there's certain level of, you know, kind of built in by end to that.. But having said that too is we did have some challenges last year with the.

S

Cob, steve armstead: service,, the company, that per service the online provisions that you know anything voice inside is pretty complex. Their normal rhythm is around dog licensing and voice. Insight has enough nuances to it that.

S

Cob,, steve armstead: they're the way it was configured didn't work as smoothly as we would have hoped. and so we're working hard with them and hopefully we'll get that.

S

Cob, steve armstead: rectified for this year,, but it's still a wait and see. and so we'll see how that goes.. So it's certainly.

S

Cob,, steve armstead:, you know,, there may be some work ahead, yet if it doesn't go smoothly. that may be one of these areas. we've got to focus on, because that's a real important aspect to make sure the program functions well for the community members.

S

Cob,, steve armstead: so,, but right now we're anticipating,, you know, everything looks good,, but it's it's going to be online based.

C

Cob, steve armstead: asking karen hollweg, osbt:: will you give us when you give us the the registration numbers and all.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, will you let us know.? Will you show us comparative numbers for since code.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, so that we can see whether the same number or registering.

S

Cob,, steve armstead: will we will share the latest information. We can. I didn't. so, yes.

C

Cob, steve armstead: by year., yes, sure.

S

Karen hollweg, osbt: yep. great. thank you.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, dan.

D

Cob, dan burke: yeah, I've got a several quick verbal updates in the spirit of epa and as informed as we can.. We are landing on. I, the community meeting, to discuss.

D

Cob, dan burke: a little recap of 2020 and to look ahead at 2021 with regards to prairie dog management and.

D

Cob, dan burke: that date is december. 14.

D

Cob, dan burke:, and so we have a item on madison, the board announcing announcement of upcoming public meetings,. We put it on.

D

Cob, dan burke: this calendar,, because we weren't sure exactly when that was going to fall.. We can certainly still take care of that.. I don't kurt now, but there's still november as well to announce that, because we would expect that there'll be.

D

Cob, dan burke: interest amongst the board members to attend that.

D

Cob, dan burke: that virtual meeting,, but so december 14 you can kind of pencil and on your calendars, now.

D

Cob, dan burke: and of course,. We now have reminders to us, as we get closer and all that. kurt decided under madison board,, whether we go ahead and announce that upcoming meeting at this month or next month.

B

Curt brown, osbt: just a quick question on that damn so it's described as the prairie dog working group and your meeting.

B

Curt brown, osbt: is, is that going to become one the same as our.

B

Curt brown, osbt: new prairie dog management actions in the project area, public reporting, meeting., yeah.,.

D

Cob, dan burke: jogging clarify that.

R

John potter, cob: yeah yeah, that's right: we're,, we've separated into two projects, kurt., so one of the working group project and we'll have the restore irrigated egg fields. Project. and both of those will be reporting at that same meeting..

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay,, you might want to use a more general term for that meeting. Excited. it gets covering more than just the prego working group. That's my,! That's my question,! I guess. so anyway,. Just a thought.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah, and my karen hollweg, osbt:, my instinct, is to announce it sooner rather than withhold the information so that people can get it on their calendars.. It's a busy time of year.

D

Cob, dan burke:, I would agree. cap., and that was one of the purpose for me. Sharing it right now, because we held down the data- and you know we didn't- have to technically announced that to you all until but giving you a couple head. a couple. Months, heads up and.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: that's going to be in the evening or.

D

Cob, dan burke:- I think it's six o'clock,- is that right, john.

D

Cob, dan burke: is 535 30. oh, okay.

B

Curt brown, osbt:: this is listed on our upcoming calendar at the bottom, guys.

E

R

John potter, cob:, maybe it may be 6pm but we'll,, we'll clarify that.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: okay. oh,, it says 530 there.. I didn't even notice the footnote.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I didn't either.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: now we know.

D

Cob, dan burke:, we know cob, dan burke: um, any other questions on that particular day.

D

Cob, dan burke: otherwise,- I just want to let you know that we've gotten some information coming out of cp w.

D

Cob, dan burke: in regards to elbow.

D

cob, dan burke: elbow visit us master plan, and you may be noticing for several months now that we've been carrying multiple dates of when we want to.

D

Cob, dan burke: carve out time under madison, the board for the board to provide feedback. and for instance, on this on our tentative board calendar right now. It's listed as both november and december.

D

Cob, dan burke:, it's going to be december for you all,, given the announcement of how long the public comment window is going to be open, is the december meeting will provide you with more than adequate time to formulate feedback and for us to get it into cpw.

D

Cob, dan burke: so just wanted to clarify,, because you probably saw to hold dates for that.

D

Cob, dan burke: and december 9 will be the date, will land on to carve out that time under madison, the board for you on that.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and comments, or do when.

D

Cob, dan burke: we're. I don't.

D

Cob, dan burke:, my understanding,, and I don't know if anybody's on that could clarify the exact date,. But I think.

D

Cob, steve armstead: that the cob, dan burke: damn call through through the month of november, december.

M

Kacey french, cob:, yet they haven't specifically.

M

Kacey french, cob: chosen a date for the beginning and the end, but we have an indication that it will be later in december., so we will be, can update you and we have the information cpw. They haven't, provided the exact dates. Yet.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and just in response to.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: raise comments during public comment. Has the,? Has there been any further assessment of the hca habitat over in that area.

D

Cob, dan burke: know their house. cob, dan burke: well, glad, casey. kacey french, cob: no,. We haven't.. I think we were waiting for that for that element of the board motion to to do that later. On after we can address some of the transportation issues.

D

Cob, dan burke: yeah., and so I just one comment back to ray and to the board- is.

D

Cob, dan burke:, we are not putting any time pressure on ourselves,, for instance, by us waiting to see how this process plays out and then going back to look at the board's motion and what we need to be responsive to.

D

Cob, dan burke:, we will take the time that's needed to do that to judiciously holistically and thoroughly so.

D

Cob, dan burke: rest assured,. It will not be a rushed process, depending on the outcome of the bump.

D

Cob, dan burke:, if it's, if it's a for that, we continue on and and incorporating the board's motion that they made in february of 2019. We will take the time as needed to do it right and it will not be a rush process.. So I just want to make sure that raiders that and that the board hears that.

D

Cob, dan burke:. I just wanted to also clarify what you might have seen in your upcoming calendar and some changes that have taken place. so,, based on what we heard from several of the trustees at the last.

D

Cob, dan burke: previous meeting is that we have pushed up into our timeframe in regards to the agricultural least assignment guidelines in order to more robustly engage with agricultural community.

D

Cob, dan burke: specifically,, there was an interest to have us reach out with survey information or search requests of surveys of all past participants into the program as well as currently sees, and so.

D

Cob, dan burke:, we have decided, we decided to do that, and that survey has now gone out and that the survey period is closed and we are now starting to analyze that information and that will all be compiled into information that will share with the spt in january..

D

Cob, dan burke:, so right now, this staff is also working on the initial draft revisions.

D

Cob, dan burke:, that's currently being reviewed by staff and incorporating some of the feedback we're getting back from our agricultural community.

D

Cob, dan burke: and that's cob, dan burke:, then staff will run by any major changes to the assignment guidelines to the agricultural community for initial feedback and that will take place over the next month or so..

D

Cob, dan burke:. We will then put that all together in a red line version for all of you share that red line version out in a written informational packet in december., and so you'll have a month to be looking at that..

D

Cob, dan burke: potential changes., and so we will then.

D

Cob, dan burke: ask for your feedback at the january meeting., so we just pushed back the timeline, a little bit in order to be more responsive to some suggestions. We heard from the board about more robust engagement with our community agricultural.

B

Curt brown, osbt: are alive and you're muted. yep.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah, thank you., I'm good.. I know what the the meeting will be discussed. This, you guys,, so that you are going to do some on foot.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, with with our current sees, is that still going to happen. you're going to go to.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: location,, or did I hear that wrong.

D

Cob, dan burke:, you sort of we're kind of cutting in and out.. I think your question was is beyond our a survey.: did we do any any person engagement? Is that.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah,. I thought that I heard that from our last meeting that there was going to be some of that that several staff members were going to to go and speak with our farmers,. But did I hear that properly at the last meeting.

N

Cob, dan burke: yeah. john.. Do you have any more details or details on that particular question.

R

John potter, cob: yeah. dan carolyn,, the staff have had conversations now with attendance. that would be affected by the plans for 2021 and still working out all the details on that. But.

R

John potter, cob: there is a robust conversation going on with effective. Tenants will also be reaching out to other tenants to let them know what the plans are ahead of the meeting on the 14th.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: ok, and then just to make sure that I understand the survey already went out to all of the current farmers and past and you've received them all back. and now you're compiling the data.. Is that what I heard.

D

Cob, dan burke: yeah,. As far as the agricultural least guideline survey john, I think the surveys are all out in that period as close. is that correct,.

R

John potter, cob: yeah., and that was a the survey- was to pass participants in the process, so that includes most of our,. Our tenants. yes.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and the next round of lease.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: requests,, it starts when.

R

John potter, cob:, the john potter, cob: day, will john potter, cob:. We will put out any opportunities for 2021 in january, february timeframe, karen.

R

Karen hollweg, osbt: so right after the board, meeting, daniel.

R

John potter, cob:, we will wait to do any until after we get feedback from the board.

R

Cob, dan burke: yeah,- that was the one thing we wanted to make sure that we weren't creating a situation brewing eight. we're not be able to be responsive to your feedback.. So.

D

Cob, dan burke: and he felt comfortable that we would have time to incorporate your feedback and still not stray too much for what we typically would do. Well.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:. I think that was what we had talked about was, if we were sending out the surveys by email.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: did. We feel that we were going to get good participation requests that way, just because you know some.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: super savvy with their emails. Did you find good participation survey results? Did.? Did you get 100% or less than that.

R

John potter, cob:, I would say john potter, cob:, that we were not john potter, cob:, really happy with the survey or the number of participants in the survey,. It wouldn't be up to call and leslie standards at all,, but.

R

John potter, cob:, it did give us good, valuable information from the folks that we did hear from it is kind of a tough audience to get feedback from in that manner,. I believe,. So that's why we're going to continue to engage with them as we're developing the actual changes in the.

R

Potential changes in the policy.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I know that we had discussed that., so I didn't know if you guys were able to do a follow up with phone calls for the people that didn't respond to the survey, you know,. Maybe they just didn't even see it.

R

John potter, cob: no,, we did not do that.. We have not done that, but we we are going to take the information that we did get turn that into a set of bullets or proposals and then run that by the tenants. Further.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I really appreciate your doing the additional outreach, I think.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the whole board is go with that.

D

Cob, dan burke: so, current, that is cob, dan burke: coming complaints. My verbal updates since and that would be the last. agenda item matters.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay, good. thank you, dan., so we're to matters from the board.

B

Curt brown, osbt: briefly,. This is what I have so far. and we can add topics that people want to cover. we've got a which is update on the upstream option. Analysis for south boulder creek, be, I think, we've covered, which the announcement of upcoming meetings, but we'll do a check there to see.

B

Curt brown, osbt: item see is the retreat d. Is this letter of requests from council that I would like to get your input on? I've got. He is trail. Maintenance for karen. is that right,.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: yes, please. curt brown, osbt: okay, anything else that people want to cover under matters from the boy. yes, ma'am.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: um,, I'd like to just do a very brief.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: report back to the whole board on where we are with the prairie dog and agricultural productivity, shared learning.

C

Curt brown, osbt: work. yes. okay., I'm adding.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the board knows what's going on.

B

Curt brown, osbt: very good idea.

B

Curt brown, osbt: anybody else have anything for matters from the board.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: um,. I also have a couple of questions about the gun club, business.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay, well,, then we're going to dive right in.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, the first one is update on the.

B

Curt brown, osbt: scope and timeline for the analysis,, the upstream option for south boulder creek flood mitigation.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, I'm not going to go into a lot of details.. We've had several meetings and discussions with the what's essentially the ceo south process, subcommittee,, which is headed up by mayor weaver and councilwoman friend, we've had.

B

Curt brown, osbt: meetings with that group or discussions with utilities staff on technical questions august fast, the 20th,, the 25th september, the 18th., the 21st and the 25th.

B

Curt brown, osbt:. I will summarize in just a couple sentences, where I think we are at and it could be a long discussion. and I don't think we'll go into that because I don't wanna.. I don't want to prejudge what the outcomes are going to be. Utility staff have done a lot.

B

Curt brown, osbt: to provide us more information. oh,, starting with much more detail about the analysis that that presented to the board our board on june 3,. You know,, particularly that.

B

Curt brown, osbt: those issues that were raised by the figure be one and they've. Given us much more detail about that. They've made.

B

Curt brown, osbt: some additional model runs to analyze possible concepts for diverting that westerly flow and storing it within the co south mind area.

B

Curt brown, osbt: they've also, then looked at the effects of that storage on downstream flows and what happens with those downstream flaws and the potential to remove the us, 36 floodwall element.

B

Curt brown, osbt: at our request., the staff is now assessing or giving us a more formal assessment of the feasibility of those storage concepts understate damn safety regulations in general engineering, practices.

B

Curt brown, osbt: they're developing a report and expect to come back to us for our november meeting and get feedback from us,. That would then go into their report to council in early december.

B

Curt brown, osbt: dan,, you may have more detailed understanding, but that's my general understanding of the sequence going forward. yeah.

D

Cob, dan burke: kurt.. I think that was well summarize,. There has been a change., it's not quite formalized, but it's it's very likely that worry. Fifth is going to be the date that they're going to go to console.

D

Cob, dan burke:, so that was.

D

Cob, dan burke:, an item that came up on monday.

D

Cob, dan burke: at the.

P

Karen hollweg, osbt: car cac.

D

Cob, dan burke: casey. thank you.

D

Cob, dan burke:, so I was. I didn't attend., so I didn't hear it, but they were. That was a date and it just that the december 15 was so overloaded that we knew something had to give.

D

Cob, dan burke: and I'm sure utility staff. appreciate it a little extra time to take your feedback because we were running into thanksgiving week right after that.

D

Cob, dan burke: and so, give them a little bit more time. To, you know, provide your feedback., but just so you all know it looks like january. 5 will be the council day.

D

Curt brown, osbt: is it your guests, then dan.? Maybe it's what you're saying that the current expectation is that the utility staff would be briefing us at december. Meeting.

B

Cob, dan burke: read., oh no,, it's still on for.

D

Cob, dan burke: november 18, and they are still shooting to provide you with documents about two weeks ahead of time. Instead of a week at a time., so they're, shooting or like november 4, in terms of being able to get you the report. So.

B

Curt brown, osbt: excellent., that's that would be very helpful.. Yeah.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah. and I just want to add karen hollweg, osbt:- that I I have karen hollweg, osbt:, really been impressed with karen hollweg, osbt:. The willingness of joe tucci and brandon coleman to to meet with us. As kurt said on all those dates that he called out.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and my understanding is that the report that as dan says, we're going to be getting on november 4.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: will contain citations from state law regulations that set forth the requirements for tie ins.. Because the point that we're at now is.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, whether the eastern side of an upstream dam, would need to be tied into the bedrock cliff on both the east and the west side of the self boulder creek valley..

C

Karen hollweg,, osbt: or based on similar to the way that brandon has diagrammed it or whether it could be tied into the bedrock cliff on the west side and have the east side of the bathtub grounded in the bedrock directly underground, as rj showed in their diagram and 20.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and we,, we decided in our last.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: officer hours meeting with them that this is really an important decision element., and we really need to see the, the state laws and regulations and what they say about.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: those kinds of titans.

D

Cob, dan burke: yeah,, having I'm not part of the report writing.- and so I haven't any draft yet, but.

D

Cob, dan burke: they receive kurt's letter.. It's been talked about, extensively,, not only with you,, but within, within the utilities. Department are very much expect to have that letter and the spirit or be incorporated in the final report, how they intend to do it.

D

Cob, dan burke: chris, I'm I'm not privy to john.. I don't know if you've seen anything yet,, but I'm fully expecting that the spirit of that letter is going to be part of the final report.

E

R

Curt brown, osbt:, which will do and and dan. maybe this is obvious to everybody,, but your staff will write part of that report to address potential consequences of the storage concept that we've been kicking around.

D

Cob, dan burke: yeah,, I mean,. We fully expect that john and done and myself will will have ample time to provide input feedback and even on those open space related matters to provide direct information into the final report. so yeah,, we'll.

D

Cob, dan burke:- it's not quite our time yet, but will be very over the next few weeks. In that.

D

Curt brown, osbt: okay,, very good.

B

Curt brown, osbt: any other questions or thoughts about that complicated thing that we just summarize briefly, but.

D

Cob, dan burke:, just a question for caroline,, dave, or how., have any of you attempted to go back and listen to the recordings and did it.. I mean, does it as far as the meetings ever recorded any issues with being able to access it and listen to it and.

D

Cob, dan burke:, just out of curiosity,.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I was, I attended, two meetings.

E

Cob, dan burke: okay, great.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: to listen to.. I believe the first one that I didn't go to,, but I was able to be there for the others.

F

Hal hallstein: forgive me., I didn't realize my video is off. yeah. navigating pretty well. I'm.

F

Hal hallstein: easy enough on the recent recordings cob, dan burke: yeah, that that might have.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: been able to get up the the model runs that show the flood flows. Yet. do you know they were having trouble getting them up because they were such large files. last I heard,.

D

Cob, dan burke: yeah. john, we discussed, said at one of the meetings last week or the week before., I'm not sure how they resolve that are,. I think, are fully expecting to be able to.

D

Cob, dan burke: have the model runs, be an important part of educating the community and the board., I'm not so sure, where they're at on it in terms of right, now,, but.

R

Curt brown, osbt:, I was just looking through.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, a load on your computer at the model, runs.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: know, staff has been showing them to us in our meetings,, but we haven't had access to them.

B

Curt brown, osbt: and what we've gotten is.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, I'm sorry,, we've gotten pdfs of various graphics and but not the full output of the runs.

B

Caroline miller, osbt:, but you've seen the full output of the runs on their computer like at the meeting.. Is that what you're, saying. yeah.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: a little videos that show the water flows during certain assumptions.

D

Cob, dan burke:- and that was one of my questions of if you're, going back to a recording. How that all played out and where they're able to follow that. and because.

D

Cob, dan burke: that's., those are pretty, the model, runs, are pretty critical. and obviously, there'll be a part of your presentation,, but together get them up on the site to.

D

John potter, cob: write.- I don't see them up on the site. Yet.

R

John potter, cob: still working curt, brown, osbt: with that,, but they will definitely be part of the presentation to the board and in november. yeah.

D

Cob, dan burke:, we even had a backup plan right of actually just videotaping the model run on the computer as like worst case scenario like love,.

B

Curt brown,, osbt: well,, I'm sure we will get an update from anybody. That knows anything new at our next meeting in november.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay, anything else., I'm going to go on then to see which is our retreat.. We had the first retreat and I thought it was fairly good.

B

Curt brown, osbt: and on october 28 from nine to noon. we're going to do our second virtual retreat., the two sessions, very similar about taking care of what we have and understanding the cost of that and dealing with increasing visitation.

B

Curt brown, osbt:. What I think I didn't see where those emails to be with people volunteering to facilitate those sessions.. So I'm going to exercise the power of the chair.

B

Curt brown, osbt: to say that karen, you're going to facilitate the first session.

B

Curt brown, osbt: at the retreat. curt brown, osbt:, taking care of what we have maintenance focused future.

B

Curt brown, osbt:. I give it to how but he's already had one so.

B

Curt brown, osbt: and I again want to thank house for suggesting this idea- was a really good, one. and then, dave. you're going to do the next one, which is managing for increasing visitation.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, thank you for volunteering to both of you.

D

Cob, dan burke: and cob, dan burke: curtain. hell,. I have a long weekend., so you might have to just push my brain. yeah,. We do have a meeting setup. yeah, okay.

D

Curt brown, osbt:, we do. cob, dan burke:, we're meeting on october 20th, just to kind of touch base on getting ourselves ready again from the steps perspective,. It will be a light.

D

Cob, dan burke:, you know, a light staff presence in the beginning, with a brief presentation just to whet your appetite and kind of spur conversation,, but otherwise it's your session.

D

Cob, dan burke:, we didn't want to interfere too much,, but so similar format of a brief opening, a brief presentation and turn it over to you..

D

Cob, dan burke: kurt, I.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: missed you sure when you said you were gonna, say light lunch.

C

Cob, dan burke:, I thought yeah.

D

Cob, dan burke: that's up to you.

B

Curt brown, osbt: dan,. I might suggest that.

B

Curt brown, osbt: when you figured out who's taking the lead and making the two presentations.

B

Curt brown, osbt: that we have karen talked to the lead for the first session and dave talks to the lead for the second session, so they can just understand a little bit better.. What's going to be presented., I think that'll help them get their facilitation, hats, on.,.

B

Cob, dan burke: okay., curt brown,, osbt: great.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: you're muted, dave.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, you wanted to say thank you. yeah.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: very much.. I was hoping that would come out this way. yeah, and.

G

Dave kuntz,, osbt:, caroline and I were going to meet with staff to continue working on the staff board, responsibility, matrix.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, and I was just wondering if we can do that, so that we have something that bring back.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: for conversation at the retreat.

B

Curt brown, osbt: well,, I mean,. If you guys, will have something for us to look at.. I think you could send it out to everybody ahead of the retreat and we can.

B

Curt brown, osbt: we're sorry if I'm remembering right dan we've reserved a little bit of time at the end of that session, for sort of everything that we didn't get to talk about.

D

Cob, dan burke: yeah, to be in all fairness and honesty,. Our meeting tomorrow meeting with the directors team in which we're going to talk about the upcoming retreat. and obviously, dave,, I think what you're kind of referring to is,, hey board, has staff hasn't heard the board hasn't heard anything.

D

Cob, dan burke: and you haven't missed anything because we have not moved on that.

D

Cob, dan burke: so I'll check in tomorrow with what we're,, what we're thinking in terms of seeing what we can move forward over the next couple of weeks and.

D

Cob, dan burke: we'll check back in with you. great.

D

curt brown, osbt: thanks. thanks for remembering that guys.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay, carry on to the first of your several items of trail maintenance.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: um,, I just wanted to say if a couple of things I went out to.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the marshall cowdrey trail to see the reconstruction work that dan told us about. In the last mid month, memo.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and I went out there for a couple of reasons. one- was to see what it was like to hike on a bike trail that had a dominant lee bike trail that had recently been.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: worked on, and, and so my first comment is how delighted I was to learn how easy it is to hike on that marshall. Cowdrey trail.. It doesn't have the, the,, you know, bike, tire thread through the middle, that's impossible to hike on, and it doesn't have all this worby.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: curvy things that the marshall trail has further west.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, and so I just wanted staff to know that it's just a delightful hiking trail, as well as biking trail,, which I think is the standard that we aspire to, and that that I.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I was just really pleased with that. my question: is, um,.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, whether staff has any strategies or.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: ideas that they're focusing on to prevent the kind of degradation that was necessary to do out there such a relatively short time after the trail was built..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, because that trail is relatively new in comparison with with trails in our system., and I was surprised that already., it has the level of degradation that needs trail work on it., I'm one of the kinds of things that I saw that I anticipated is provoked. The work is the kind of swerving.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, like half moon areas, off the side of a trail that the bikes make and I, and it seems to me we need to be thinking about.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: how to prevent the need for maintenance,, as opposed to just how to always keep going back out and doing more maintenance. And I'm wondering if staff has been thinking about that,, whether they have any strategies for how to manage bike use on our trails to to prevent the, the need for.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the restoration maintenance, work. yeah.

D

Cob, dan burke: yeah,, that's a great question.. I what I'm thinking I'm hearing from your karen is there's kind of two questions. and one a gay.

D

Cob, dan burke: or russian doll box right, one fits into the other. Is, is what is our strategies to.

D

Cob, dan burke: when we're in order to reduce maintenance of a trail in general, then,, is there anything specifically on a bike design trail that we're looking at.

D

Cob, dan burke:, as well. so kind of two questions related to each other.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, since this trail is karen hollweg, osbt: is really heavily a bike. Trail. um,. I really wasn't thinking of the bigger question,, but that's a worthwhile question as well.

D

Cob, dan burke: yeah, yeah., so our trail standards.

D

Cob, dan burke: that we've been really, really,, that's been a big focus of ours in the last five years, and, of course, then prioritizing how we apply and looking at those standards, and I will apply our annual work planning items based on the priorities of trails that are out of compliance..

D

Cob, dan burke: there's a lot of good reasons to really start to heavily employee to the trial standards that are in place, and I don't know jim, if readers., if you're able to sort of elaborate on this,. But I can say a couple of different things- is.

D

Cob, dan burke:, we had quite a robust conversation and 2018 with jared and tad on,, you know, to develop standards and then how we apply. Those standards to.

D

Cob, dan burke: across our trail system, to identify those trails that are any upgrades, possibly your reroute on the most extreme situation or or place and and lighter situations.

D

Cob, dan burke:, and we can certainly come back with a little bit more of.

D

Cob, dan burke: a more in depth report of how this how this particular section was identified and why it was identified and why prioritized, we can provide that as a written, follow up, but I,. I have a feeling, karen.. Your question might be more general in nature.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's more how do,? How do we prevent from having to do so much.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: um,, karen hollweg, osbt:, go back and fix it again and again.

C

cob, dan burke: and again. yeah,. Well, I jim.. I don't know if you're able to comment on why what provoked us.? What was the issue that we had to.

D

Cob, dan burke: address that was originally,. I mean it is probably a trail design issue that we were dealing with of why we needed to go back and reroute this. I fully expect that.

D

Cob, dan burke:, the new design that we put in is, is going to answer that exact question of based on how we did that trail design. That reroute is going to prevent us from being out there. Again.

D

Cob, dan burke: we're going to redo this particular trail. We bought this trail,, but.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah,, it's less the reroute that I'm concerned about.. I understand the rewrote issue., it's more. The ongoing maintenance of the marshall cowdrey.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: connector trail., the one that it hasn't been in for that long.. I don't know what year it was built, but, um, and it just run straight across from marshall out to the county road and but as a young trail., it's already got,, you know, the swerves in it, and the kind of of.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: degradation that requires in place, maintenance, and I'm wondering if, if the trails group has thought at all about how to prevent degradation and the need for maintenance.

U

Jim reeder cob: yes,, we have thought about that. We think about it. Every day.

U

Karen hollweg, osbt: well,, there's cim hi jim.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, where are you, where's your face.

U

Jim reeder cob: yeah. turn the camera on,. I would do that.

U

Jim reeder cob: no button for that., I'm afraid to push any other buttons.

U

Jim reeder cob: but yeah, I know. so couple of things.. This particular reroute was identified and in the.

U

Jim reeder cob: study that we did in looking at whether our trailers comply with our standard or not.. This particular section was totally read, you know,, most of our trails, are just partially write down was totally read in.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, and are you talking about the one that comes up from below, or the one that goes straight across.

U

Jim reeder cob:, the one that basically is the connector from marshall.

U

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah,, I'm talking about the one that goes straight across at about the same elevation all the way.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, across from marshall to the county, road.

U

Yeah., jim reeder cob: again, we,. We are looking at that,, but that certainly that the the issues on that trail are not totally red.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: right.

U

Jim reeder cob: prioritizing we prioritize this connector at this point. We are looking at that and we will be taking whatever.

U

Jim reeder cob: measures, we can, when we do our suite, which is in the fall and the spring smaller.. We just know, there's not a rerouted in our future for that.

U

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah,, but my question is not about reroutes. It's about preventing the need for maintenance.. Is there any way that that user behaviors can be influenced in a way to prevent the degradation of the trails.

U

Jim reeder cob: yes,, we think there is. and every time we put in a trail or or do some maintenance. we're trying new and different things.

U

Jim reeder cob:. We believe that the designs that we're using today, had we put that in that and the trail that you're talking about,. We would not have nearly the problems that we've got there.

U

Jim reeder cob:, you know, it's not that old., but it's it's not one of our newer, newer designs. You.

U

Jim reeder cob: so,, you know, every time we do something we watch it., you may monitor it, and we will make adjustments.

U

Jim reeder cob: so depending on the situation. yeah,, I think there's lots of things we can do.

D

Cob, dan burke:, so karen may I suggest a couple of things: here.

D

Cob, dan burke:, I know that jared has are reaching out to individual board members because in.

D

Cob, dan burke:, we were doing site visits.. We had a big conversation on maintenance and I know that they want to be able to offer that to other of the other trustees and I think they reached out to sell our views. see. If you want to go out and site. That invitation is open to all five trustees.

D

Cob, dan burke:, perhaps what I'm also hearing is the very specific notion of.

D

Cob, dan burke:, when you're looking at preventative actions that can reduce maintenance specifically for mountain bike. Trails. is there something.? Is there a different thinking we need to do,? Is there a different set of strategies.

D

Cob, dan burke: is there a different things that the user group could do. and may I suggest that when I put that to chatting and they could provide some sort of written information.

D

Cob, dan burke:, in order to supplement in the field, visits that you all would like to do with them and we'll put something together in a written format and for an upcoming board, meeting, and hopefully, between a site visit that any of you want to take advantage of and.

D

Cob, dan burke: information on more of the specific question. karen is asking,. I think for mountain bike, user trails.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: that'd be great. okay. karen hollweg, osbt: thank you.

B

Curt brown, osbt: okay. okay., thanks, everyone., I'm karen your next one is the paradox: shared learning collaborative that is coalesced here.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: well,, I'm and I don't know who should be speaking kurt and dave and karen have all.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: taken a shot at,, at least for me,, listening in,, as opposed to directly participating in these meetings,. But I thought it was important for for how and caroline and any public that still on.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: to know that there's a collaborative shared learning group- that's.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: been meeting,, I don't know,, maybe a close to once every three weeks or four weeks.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that is doing what I think is some really constructive. Work.. It's made up of prairie dog advocates of agricultural irrigated ag aggregate.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: advocates,, and what they're trying to do.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: is work with staff to identify a property where some experimentation.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: would well be done under a an smp lease I'm to learn whether it's possible to have productive agricultural operation and prairie dog occupancy on a property simultaneously.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and they're zeroing into a property, that's just north of the cottonwood trail and east of, is it 71st day of? Have I got that right.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: um,, where there's.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, there's vegetation., it's mostly bind, we're kind of vegetation,, but there's certainly vegetation and and at least a reasonable amount of soils there and there's prairie dog occupancy and the young farmer who's. The head of the young farmer, organization.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: is, and marcus garvey are representing the ag community.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and it they're having some very interesting discussions and- and I think it's important- that the board sort of be aware that this is going on and keep track of the work that they do..

B

Curt brown, osbt:. We should probably get john potter to to sort of chime in about.

B

Curt brown, osbt: what he's been doing with this group,, because I think he's really helped move it. Forward. yeah.

R

John potter, cob: well,, I thought, karen summarize that really well.

R

John potter, cob:, this group has approached staff about the possibility of doing this collaborative effort on on on that property. That karen mentioned.

R

John potter, cob:, we looked at,, we looked at several sites and that one rose to the top.. These were areas that are currently unleased.

R

John potter, cob:, so we have no tenant for these sites and we felt like from a standard leasing arrangement that that would not be possible because of the prairie dog impacts..

R

John potter, cob: so that it's they are good candidates for us to receive proposals on on how somebody might experiment and do something different and potentially come up with some code coexistence strategies that would would be interesting and effective on the other properties that this city owns.

R

John potter, cob: so,, so we will.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, an era gated property right, john.

R

John potter, cob: it is, it is irrigated, yes,, karen.

R

John potter, cob:, so what we've talked about is just using our existing.

R

John potter, cob: approach process: that's in the ag land use guidelines to accept proposals from this group or anyone else.. We don't want to.

R

John potter, cob: just be doing something favorable to this, this group.- we want to make sure that we're fair across the whole ag community on any properties that we.

R

John potter, cob: make available. so,, so we're working through the details on on how that process could work. and I'm sure, we'll be back with a an update for you very soon.. If this. If this continues to to work to work itself, out.

B

Curt brown, osbt: dave. did you want to add some.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, yeah, jen.. I have a question. john,. Do you think,? Are you anticipating that an update or report will be part of the december 14 leading on on this particular effort.

R

John potter, cob: yes, possibly, dave., if it depending on how how this develops. one thing we have to the staff have not discussed,, but we need to.

R

John potter, cob: come, come to understand is the best way to to do this, whether we proceed with a negotiated assignment under that current ag, land use guidelines or wait for january or february,, which.

R

John potter, cob:, this group is excited and they want to get going.. So I don't know. so our search kind of working through those issues. and if,. If we can,, we will include it or make it make an announcement about it and simmer 14.

N

Curt brown, osbt: well, yeah., the one thing I would just add.

B

Curt brown, osbt: you know,, it's not like our staff needs anything more to do with prairie dogs right now, some more work.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, but I think one of the great ideas that john has had here is to basically put it within the leasing program, and so that it becomes a contract with the operator to do these things and.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, you know,. If they're this group does seem quite interested in science and monitoring, and so that can be part of their stewardship plan for the property and maybe not have our staff having to do all of that. so anyway,. I thought that was very clever..

B

Curt brown, osbt:, yeah, caroline.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, is it the prairie dog advocates.? Is it? Is it mostly the prairie dog working group or all of them,? You.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: know it's a couple: people from each interest area, lindsey, stirling, crank and pam- is wanting.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: are the two prairie dog advocates. In this group.- okay, great.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: and then the property size,. Are we trying to do it with the whole property, or did they pick a certain amount of acreage to work? With.

N

John potter, cob:, you guys know what I'm what we've talked about. His potential is not the whole property, but the irrigated portions of it.. So that's probably what we would focus on.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah,. I definitely would like to know more, or you know, help out in any way possible.. So I can reach out to a couple people about that. so, karen.. Have you been out there to the site with them.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, they haven't gone out as a group, people, as individuals have gone out under cobra guidelines.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, with masks.

N

Karen hollweg, osbt: event., caroline miller,, osbt: virtual, when it's both groups working together., karen hollweg,, osbt: oh,. It's all been on zoom.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, all virtual.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah. yeah,, I'd love to know more. that sounds, that sounds great.

B

Curt brown, osbt:. I think it is a really good activity for so many different reasons., and I appreciate the willingness of john, oh there's to take on one more thing, and try to give birth to this.. So thank you.

B

Curt brown, osbt: um,, let's see gun club, karen.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah., my last question is about gun club is about.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, as I understand it, from what bethany sent us today. there's an october 20 commissioners, meeting.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and she said, staff was planning on being there to answer any questions that might come up,, but not to make a formal comment,. As I understand that if I've got that right. um, and.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:. What concerns me is not the moving the trail so that it's our out of harm's way.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: for for the osm, p property and users,, but the impact on users- and we brought this up. when the board discuss this many moons ago. um They impact of the noise on all smp visitors, and now that there's been a noise survey done., we know that.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: that karen hollweg, osbt: they're there that both noise surveys have been done and then additional noise surveys will be done., and my concern is that that the noise.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, based on what the commissioners document says at this point, will be 7am to 7pm seven days, a week. plus, till 9pm one day, a week.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, which means and and my experience when I went out there is. it's like having shingles put on on the town house next door to you.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's pow, pow, pow,, pow,, pow,, pow,, pow,, pow,, pow,, pow and and with five times more powers. um,. I just don't know how we're going to have acceptable levels of noise for osm, p, visitors.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: out on our property, that's adjacent to that. Even if we move the trail- and I I think it's my personal opinion is that it's important to convey that to the commissioners.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and I don't know how what they're, whether there's a route to do, that, whether it could be a memo from the board,, whether the board could appoint somebody to go and speak at the commissioners meeting or whether I just thought to keep my mouth shut, and go to bed..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and forget about it., but it concerns me greatly. and it's an impact that will.

C

Curt brown, osbt: will resist forever.

C

karen hollweg, osbt: vs forever,, that's the right word. and it's not insignificant..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and the more and the more we've learned since the board last took this up. the,, the worse.. It's become.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:- I guess that's something real quick before you respond this from what I gathered. This gun club is where the police officers will practice as well.. So it's been it's it's necessary to be there.

N

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's the police, officers., it's the rangers and it's everybody from up in the forest service. Lands.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: west of of the lowlands, who they want to get out of the forest service and down in a facility.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: that's going to be five times the volume of the gun, shots that are there. Now. yeah.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:- that was what I got. it was. It was multiple agencies that big space.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and individuals and members, as well as public.

B

Curt brown,, osbt: and, of course that's a, but all of these are laudatory goals.. We can only speculate about how much this will get the sort of freelance people out of the forest., but I do think it is good to have a place like this.. I do share karen's concern that.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, a lot of the noise stuff in their proposal is based on modeling and it's one thing to model this stuff.. It's another thing to measure it afterwards., it's another thing to be required to comply with certain standards of.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, our experience., I think, generally, is once you build a facility like this,, it's almost impossible to force real mitigation on them and they'll. They may get to a point where they can't mitigate the noise and then so anyway.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's it's a repetitive noise., it's not just noise.. It's a.

C

B

Curt brown, osbt:, so dan, your staff have made comments. We we don't have the standing as as the landowner.

B

Curt brown, osbt:: do you have any thoughts about cob, dan burke: well,? I mean,.

D

Cob, dan burke:, I don't have any new thoughts, to be honest.. I mean, we've been, as you know, we've.

D

Cob, dan burke: provided a series of comments and reiterated those comments again and re submitted those comments. This fall and then keeping you up to date on when the comment periods are over the past two years or so.. So.

D

Cob, dan burke:, you know we are as a referral agency. Our staff does work pretty.

D

Cob, dan burke: comprehensively on projects specially projects that we see could have a greater impact on open space and.

D

Cob, dan burke:, you know,, I feel like the set of comments that we submitted were pretty robust and pretty thorough, and you know I think bethany does a really good job of reaching across all departments staff and providing that input.

D

Cob, dan burke:, I fully expect that nothing will be at the hearing.. If there's any questions about the comments that we have submitted in regards to the board.

D

You know, cob, dan burke:. I guess, you know,. That would be your issue with is how is either as individuals or as a board that you.

D

Cob, dan burke: wish to provide any any any comments.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, I mean,, I think the easy thing is, since the department is submitted comments., it's for board members to go and say,.

B

Curt brown, osbt:: we stand by the staffs comments and we hope they're considered very seriously to go beyond that. The board would have to form our own.

B

Curt brown, osbt: additional comments that may be challenging to do in the time available,, but I would certainly say each of us should take a look at what staff is submitted and decide if we want to show up and say,.

B

Curt brown, osbt: pay attention to these.

L

Dave kuntz, osbt: guys.

E

Dave kuntz, osbt: sure,, like.

B

Curt brown, osbt: caroline. go ahead.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: um, has the gun club. been there since, before I was born in 1984, that's that.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, it was before all of us were born.

B

Early pleistocene.

N

Karen hollweg, osbt: silver miners., caroline miller, osbt:, but is this the first growth of it.? Is this the first expansion that it's that it's had, or has there been several.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: to your turn. go to a curt brown, osbt: girl, dan.

B

Curt brown, osbt: dan, can answer that.

D

Cob, dan burke: no, no,, I can't. I was gonna, look for out so curt brown,, osbt:, okay, dave.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: there, over the years,. There have been several efforts to expand their. They have expanded slightly,, but this is kind of a different level.. This is kind of a monumental expansion., so the ones. previously, you know,, open space, commented on it.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, but they were rather minor, but I guess.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: kurt., I just wanted to say I do share karen's concerns very, very much., and, dan,. I guess I would,, I think, the staff.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:. In probably you want to comment because I think the impression is is that if,? If the trail gets moved, then.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: mitigation in the fact of the matter. Is, and said,. I've been out there for about 40 years and they're, not.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: anywhere on that property that the that kind of impact is going to be either minimal or non existent., and so I think the notion that we just moved the trail and in the gun club provide some compensation for doing that and everything will be fine.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: is not accurate at all. and I think we need to emphasize that if this goes through the impacts to visitors and on you know, just ranching operations out, there are going to be constant and never ending.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah,, it's like a war zone.. I mean, it's like.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: when you're out there on the hidden valley, trail and.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt: and I think occurence right if you expand it by a factor. Five.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. It's definitely going to be that in seven to seven.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: is every day.. I mean,. That's the only time that visitors are out there., I mean you know that the area is not and theoretically is not open. At least the the parking the trailhead parking is not open after dark.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah and there's not a single day that you could go out there for a little bit of peace and quiet.

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Bethany collins, cob: day. bethany collins, cob:. This is this is bethany.. Can you guys hear me.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, oh hi,, yes. bethany, collins, cob:, hi. sorry,. I was trying to unmute and I'm in in the country, so to speak.. So I have terrible connection right. Now.

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Bethany collins, cob:, but I did want to point out, as far as, as far as commenting versus formal comments,, so we will,, I will be present at the meeting.

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Bethany collins, cob: likely be asked to answer questions related to our comments.. I'm not sure if you had a chance to listen to the planning commission, meeting or not,, but.

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Bethany collins, cob: a great deal of their comments and reason for not supporting the application, were related to a failure of the applicant to show or to be able to show a 50% noise reduction.

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Bethany collins, cob:, so basically what they did was take their current noise and say,. Not only do you need to reduce that., but you need to reduce the projected increase invoice by 50% and so.

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Bethany collins, cob:, so our comment, or are you know basically we would be supporting their the the planning commission's.

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Bethany collins, cob: requirements or or request for that 50% noise reduction of even their future.

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Bethany collins, cob:, you know noise impacts., so does that help answer kind of the, the noise issues you're asking about.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: does that mean 50%.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: of the added noise or 50% less than the current level of noise.

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Bethany collins, cob: exactly so., so they were.. It was really saying if you're going., so they wanted to see what the current noise was. So what their current noise was, plus what their noise studies were. So they went out. And, of course, did some shooting out there.

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Bethany collins, cob: at their current facility and then extrapolated that to what the expansion would be., and so they basically said, in order to expand.. We want to see a 50% reduction of the noise you're currently showing including this studies, again,. Based on what I was hearing.

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Bethany collins, cob:, so it wasn't, you know,, so it was in order to approve the expansion.. They wanted to see that which they couldn't show.. So the planning commission denied their application or or didn't support the applicant.

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Bethany collins, cob: said we think we're showing everything that complies with county code,, etc. we want to take our, our application for to the commissioners and so.

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Bethany collins, cob: are, you know, bethany collins, cob:. If and when asked questions, we would say,. We support the efforts or the the requirements of the planning commission, which is to show it reduction.

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Bethany collins, cob: in order to approve the expansion and reduction, the noise., they do not, if rejected, they do not have to,, they do not have to decrease their noise that they currently make by 50%.. Does that make sense. right.

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Bethany collins, cob: okay. karen hollweg, osbt:. I think,. I think the wording that you you use just in the last phrase that you said is really important.

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Bethany collins, cob: mm hmm., karen hollweg, osbt:, a 50% reduction of the current noise level right.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah.

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Bethany collins, cob: the current and future. yes, yes.

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Curt brown, osbt:. He then I'm glad.

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Curt brown, osbt: I bethany made this clear- is that.

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Curt brown, osbt:, the leverage. they're trying to use is that if we don't approve their project., then we're going to have to live with the existing noise level.. I mean, that's basically.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: all we have to live with that now.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,, but curt brown, osbt:. What's on the table, theoretically,, if you approve the project.

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Curt brown, osbt: will have to reduce it to half.. Now I think bethany, you're saying that they don't have any evidence they can do. That.

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Bethany collins, cob: correct., and they want the commissioners to consider their application, even without that. mm hmm..

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curt brown, osbt:, that's very helpful. Bethany.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah., and if we need to do any clarifications tomorrow on that, given up bethany's out in the hinterlands and probably relying on on memory.. But so what I'm hearing about the knee is.

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Cob, dan burke:- let's say their noise could be calculated at 50 and their expansion is you're, adding 30 now you're at, is they want a 50% reduction of the at to bring it down to 40.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: no, no.

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Cob, dan burke:, a low value. yeah.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, he percent reduction of the 50 currently.

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Cob, dan burke: yes. and then what about well, okay.

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Curt brown, osbt: so be to 25.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: no,, because it decibel curve, is as logarithmic.

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Curt brown, osbt:, okay, yes.

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Bethany collins, cob:, oh boy.,.

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Bethany collins, cob: yes,, I can get.. I can get there exactly like.

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Cob, dan burke: a walk with cob, dan burke:, with exactly what the planning commission seven.

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Bethany collins, cob: yep,, no problem.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: well. Well, I think I think that sounds fine,, but I also think we ought to reemphasize that moving. The trail is not a satisfactory mitigation.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: factor and that.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: that should not be considered part of the mitigation and $30,000 compensation is not a mitigation factor, either.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I agree with that. and I,. I almost feel like we ought to be doing something like the potassium. oh, schedule. Of, you know,. We can't take seven days a week, destruction of the visitor experience.. You've got to give us at least two or three days of quiet. Every week.

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Bethany collins, cob:, yeah, and, and I hear you, karen. unfortunately, and you know, fortunately, and unfortunately we have these amazing lands and trail surrounding us,, but many if. well, actually,. Most of them are within county jurisdiction and not city jurisdiction.. So we are subject to their.

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Bethany collins, cob: land use code and their interpretation and development approvals. they're up., and so we get to, again, act as a as a referral agency and and attempt to influence that their decisions,. But we also don't get to put very many conditions and requirements on those decisions.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: well,. We can opine that the proposed mitigation isn't satisfactory.

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Bethany, collins,, cob: and, and hopefully, and to the extent I provided those to hopefully our,. Our comments have, I have done so as far as.

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Bethany collins, cob: claire,, you know,.

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Bethany collins, cob:, conveying the impacts on the user experience out there.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, I use think bethany,. I think your attendance is is very valuable and worthwhile., but I think, given the commissioner county commissioners are the hearing entity.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. It is very worthwhile having the director of the open space department speaking to the commissioners.

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That would be me., curt, brown, osbt: and I again would say.

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Cob, dan burke: notes.

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Curt brown, osbt: well, well, thank you.. This is really helpful and karen,. Thank you for bringing it up, um,.

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Curt brown, osbt: we're going to buy.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: another issue., the other issue that just karen hollweg, osbt: nas that me that I'm not going to bring up for the record is, is more development in the south, boulder creek floodplain. While we're trying to come to grips with what to do with the floodplain.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, where there's been development and we're not supposed to be flooding them, and now we've got more property down at 51st and arapaho, where.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, you know, we're losing more floodplain.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's crazy.

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Curt brown, osbt: any other comments before we adjourn.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, it is crazy.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, I heard the crazy.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah,, it's a it's a pretty strange, proposal., well,, okay, folks., thanks again to everybody. dan,. Do you have any last word.? Are we good.

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Cob, dan burke: know,, we'll see you on the 28th.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay, thank you, everybody.. We are adjourned.

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Cob, dan burke: thanks, everyone.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: thank you.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and I and good night. how back on these codes.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah,, it's a travels.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, good morning., yeah.