City of Boulder, CO OSMP Meetings, 10 Feb 2021

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From YouTube: 2-10-21 City of Boulder OSBT

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2-10-21 City of Boulder OSBT

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Curt brown, osbt:. Well I'm saying at six o'clock,, so I will go ahead and called order. The meeting of the open space board of trustees for february 10, 2021 and, as always,, because we may have some people listening and not seeing the meeting will start with a roll call of the board members how hall stein.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I'm president karen whole wag.

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Curt brown, osbt: here dave coons.

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Curt brown, osbt: here,, caroline miller, yeah and I'm kurt brown so leah. We have all board members present.

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Curt brown, osbt:, just a quick look ahead on the agenda,. We do not have any public hearings scheduled for this meeting,, so the public may provide comment on any topic during our public comment. Period.

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Curt brown, osbt:. I will now ask alice and eklund to review the rules for the meeting, and also to remind folks how they might may sign up for our public comment period. Allison.

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Alison ecklund, cob: okay,. Do you all see the slide.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: yes, yes, yes.

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Alison ecklund, cob: okay,, so thank you for joining us tonight,. These guidelines are to establish.

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Alison ecklund, cob: hopes okay, a balance between meaningful engagement and online security. This meeting has been called to conduct the business of the city of boulder activities that disrupt delay or interfere with the meeting are prohibited.

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Alison ecklund, cob: the time before speaking or asking questions will be limited to the public comment and no person shall speak except when recognized by the person. Presenting.

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Alison ecklund, cob: each person shall register to speak at the meeting, using a full first and last name,. So if you have appeared- and it just shows iphone or times ipad, for example.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, you will have to remain yourself with a full first and last name before we can unmute you, and if you don't know how to do that,, you can chat, send me a chat and I can rename you.

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Alison ecklund, cob: know video will be permitted permitted,, except for city officials, employees and those invited by speakers and presenters. All others will participate by voice only.

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Alison ecklund, cob: the person presenting at the meeting shall enforce these rules by muting. Anyone who violates any rule.

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Alison ecklund, cob: and the chat function isn't able to host. Only so chats will go to me. Only, and those are for technical, related, questions.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, if you can't hear or something happens with the zoom, but not for content, questions related to the meeting.

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Alison ecklund, cob: only the host and individuals designated by the host will be permitted to share their screen during this meeting, and then kurt. I can also go over if you wish to speak tonight, you can raise your hand.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, if you hover over the participants icon most likely at the bottom of your screen, you an open that participants box,. That will be a raise. The hand.

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Alison ecklund,, cob: button,, or sometimes it's now appearing in the reactions icon at the bottom of your screen, so check those two places later when we get to public comment,. If you would like to raise your hand to speak.

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Curt brown, osbt: thank you allison and after we shortly after we approve the minutes,, we will have the public comment period at that time, I'll check in with that, once again, to.

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Curt brown, osbt: remind folks exactly how they can sign up if they haven't already allison. Just for my information,, how many folks we have signed up at this point.

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Alison ecklund, cob: one one signed up in advance.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay, very good,, well then,. We will go to the approval of the minutes for the open space board of trustees meeting of january 13 2021, I'm going to start on page one,. I have a small wording. Change.

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Curt brown, osbt:: this is sandra agenda item to, and thank you to leah for catching this..

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Curt brown, osbt:, it says tony getaway spoke regarding voice inside program and there was a wording of.

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Curt brown, osbt: switch there, and so the way it should read in that second sentence,, he said no part of the voice inside program is simple.

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Curt brown, osbt:, rather than which is simple, is simple, however,. It goes on,. He suggested providing an area for dog guardians, to be able to train their dogs on the open space system to improve adherence to the rules.

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Curt brown, osbt:, so I will propose that change,. I will also mentioned that mr getaway just send us a note. After.

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Curt brown, osbt: the meeting. curt brown, osbt:, pointing out that there was a discussion back in 2014 of creating such a space for training of dogs and dog guardians. Other suggested changes to page one of the minutes.

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Curt brown, osbt: how thank you.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:, I rarely do this, but in agenda item three under the andy poster section on the agricultural land use assignment guidelines.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:. I thought it would be worthwhile to put one sentence to note that the board did discuss and ask for clarification on the equity and inclusion elements of the scoring system.

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Curt brown, osbt: would you like that just follow where it said to boil the board asked clarifying questions and suggestions and then go on to say yeah.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: certainly yeah. However, that's done. I just think that we spent a fair amount of time on it, and I think it was worth noting.

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Curt brown, osbt: so,. Would you just really is, in our benefit does say: again, then,? How you would word that sentence.

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Yeah. hal hallstein, osbt: ask clarifying questions and provide suggestions for language within the application and related to the equity inclusion elements of the scoring system.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,, I see leah nodding. That's always a good sign. Dave.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah, I have a minor suggestion, and that is under francis our tongues.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: comments,, the third line down, we are.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: right at the end of that line. It says less than the lessening the within sight, measure, and I think site, that's a little weird as far as what it is,, but I think site should be si gh t rather than si p.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: because I think it's the voice, insight rule that francis was talking about.

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Curt brown, osbt: yep. curt brown, osbt: good. Thank you. Any other proposed changes to page one.

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Curt brown, osbt:, saying nine. I will move to page two anything there.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I see carrie yep you're gonna have to unmute karen.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: I'm.

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karen hollweg, osbt: in the second paragraph.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: regarding the rocky mountain green waste process.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I thought it should say, mark gershman, provided an update on the last few years.

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Curt brown, osbt: the last few years of activity.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's fine yeah.

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Curt brown, osbt:: do you want to put that after the first sentence or or.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah at the end of that short paragraph or sentence yeah.

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Curt brown,, osbt: okay, and then so just say that again to leah, so we make sure she's got it.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: mark gershman provided an update on the last two few years of activity.

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Curt brown,, osbt:, she's smiling and nodding again. Thank you. Okay, anything else, on page two.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay, with those changes,, then I will.

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Curt brown, osbt: support a motion to approve the minutes.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, so move. curt, brown, osbt:, so mote, any second., karen hollweg, osbt:, again., curt, brown,, osbt:, okay, I'll call the role how halston.

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Curt brown, osbt:, you're muted.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: I approve.

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Curt brown, osbt: very good karen whole leg., karen hollweg, osbt: yes., curt brown,, osbt: dave, codes., curt, brown,, osbt:, yes,, caroline miller.

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Curt brown, osbt: yes,, and I also vote yes and so those minutes for the meeting of january 13 2021 are approved. Unanimously.

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Curt brown, osbt: moving on to the next item on the agenda,. It is my honor and great privilege to read the commendation for molly davis.

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Curt brown, osbt:. This commendation is to recognize the very special contributions to our community and our natural resources by molly davis, well known, boulder artist, open space advocate and trustee and humanitarian.

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Curt brown, osbt: following the devastating 2013 floods and in spite of suffering her own substantial losses.

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Curt brown, osbt: molly set out to document the resiliency of our open space lands by carrying her easel and paints along our trails to every open space. Property.

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Curt brown, osbt: a project she called every trail,, the resulting 225 pieces, captured the beauty and the diversity of our open space lands in a major 2018 exhibition.

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Curt brown, osbt: titled, open space visions displayed at the rembrandt yard and also at the boulder museum and in molly's associated book..

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Curt brown, osbt: several of her paintings remain on display at the open space and mountain parts. Headquarters.

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Curt brown,, osbt: molly is conveyed her love of painting and open space to artists in colorado, nationally and internationally..

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Curt brown, osbt: through numerous classes and plan air techniques and through her participation in many juried, shows both as an artist and as a volunteer judge,. She has also long supported the os mp youth, art programs, with both materials and her expertise.

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Curt brown, osbt:, serving on the open space board of trustees. Molly was a dedicated and tenacious advocate for the values and the open space charter.

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Curt brown, osbt:, a copy of which you often carry. She was not afraid to cast a vote of principle descent, yet never let it affect her positive relations with and support for her fellow trustees.

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Curt brown, osbt: well, on the board. She earned the nickname, do davis, for her due diligence and tenacity and evaluating every proposal. Budget and contract. No detail was left unexamined.

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Curt brown, osbt: and,, both as a trustee and later, as a member of the public,, she participated fully, despite increasing challenges with her voice, she gave countless hours to working with the public and the staff and studying issues across the open space system.

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Curt brown, osbt: molly maintain the nurture close connections with the first leaders of our open space programs,, helping to bring a historic context and to continuity of vision into current open space policy and management.

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Curt brown, osbt: in this regard, it was fitting that molly would chair the committee, organizing the 2017 50th anniversary celebration of the passage of the first boulder open space tax marked with community engagements and events throughout that year..

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Curt brown, osbt: molly participated in developing the first osm agricultural resources management plan, which brings specific and comprehensive guidance to managing our least farms and ranches lands.

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Curt brown, osbt: molly has long had a special connection to the agricultural community that maintains their historic stewardship of the ranches and farms which the open space program protected. From development.

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Curt brown, osbt:. She recognizes that sustaining these operations at the edge of growing urban areas is very challenging and she is a tireless advocate for the agricultural community and their role in open space. Stewardship.

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Curt brown,, osbt: molly's concerned for those affected by the flooding has not been limited to boulder.

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Curt brown, osbt: she has given considerable time, effort and her resources to help the town of principle. North carolina, historic town, founded by freed slaves.

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Curt brown, osbt: that suffered catastrophic flooding in 2016 during a category five hurricane as they sought to rebuild their community.

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Curt brown, osbt:: it is for these and her many other contributions to enriching our community and protecting our open space. Resources.

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Curt brown, osbt: that the open space board of trustees, former trustees and the leadership and staff of the boulder open space and mountain parks, department.

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Curt brown, osbt: extend our heartfelt thanks and appreciation to molly davis, on this day february, 10 2021, and that is signed by the boulder open space board of trustees, kurt brown, palestine, karen hallway dave, coons, caroline miller and former trustees. Francis hard talk and tom isaacson.

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Curt brown, osbt: and the open space and mountain parks department with dan burke, director signing, on behalf of the department staff,. I also need to mention that,, since this draft was published.

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Curt brown, osbt: helen feinberg, a former trustee, has asked that her name be added to the final copy that sent them molly.

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Curt brown, osbt: so again, our great appreciation tamale for all she's done for open space.

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Curt brown, osbt: yes., we are here., curt, brown,, osbt:, um., curt, brown, osbt:, any trustees or dan or other staff want to add any comments at this point. Just raise your hand.

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Curt brown, osbt: I'll start with caroline, and then I got dave next.

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Caroline miller, osbt: yeah- I just want to say before being on the board,. I had met with molly and he had done a lot and given a lot of her time to mentor me and really helped me understand the agriculture department and community within open space and she was.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, you know just beyond helpful and warm and and open to teaching me all that she knew so it's an honor to be able to call her a friend and to know her.

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Caroline miller, osbt: and, and I really appreciate, know everything that she has done for me in that regard. Stay open, space.,.

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Curt brown, osbt: thank you,, caroline dave.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, if memory serves, I think, molly's first open space board meeting was actually the evening of the 2013 flood.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: and it strikes me that.

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dave, kuntz, osbt: along a number of threads in the tapestry of the program that that is one that we're still.

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Dave kuntz,, osbt:, wavy and so she's been very instrumental in a whole number of open space issues that being one,, and I think you know, viable and sustainable communities..

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Dave kuntz, osbt: really depend on community members like molly and she she's kind of lives without a whole lot of fanfare, but her dog and determination to do the right thing, I think, is a model for us all,, and so thank you very much..

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Curt brown, osbt: thank you, dave karen.,.

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Karen hollweg,, osbt: and I,, I just want to know that I'm as far as I know, molly is the first and so far only artists that we've had on the open space board and.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: at the time I encouraged her to apply,. I really thought it was important to bring that perspective to the board and every time I hike up gos hoc trail,, and I see the the trail sign that she painted.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: the image for for the entry to the habitat conservation area, there.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I think of her and all the wonderful contributions, she made, and I fully subscribed to this commendation and and again thank her very much thanks. Molly.

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Curt brown, osbt: up then you're muted.

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Cob, dan burke:. Thank you curt yeah. I just want to relay a quick story which sort of summarizes everything we've been talking about regarding molly but.

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Cob, dan burke:, as as all of you know, she's. She has sort of a love for the rich history of this department and really takes a lot of pride in in helping other people understand that history and within the first month, of.

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Cob, dan burke: three years ago, almost now taking on this position, she arranged.

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Cob, dan burke: to for me to have a lunch with.

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Cob, dan burke: former director jim crane, as well as the former director, both parks and open space rod, stewart,, and so we had a over a two hour lunch that molly.

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Cob, dan burke: and course had all the goodies for us and the lunch itself and and the whole purpose was just to sit around the table and talk and.

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Cob, dan burke:, that was one of my first introductory, is, as far as the deep didn't understand, the deep history from the perspectives of former directors and.

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Cob, dan, burke: and and molly was instrumental in putting that, all together, and again it was just speaks to.

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Cob, dan burke:, you know her her love for this department,, the concept of open space protection and and the history,. So thank you, molly for everything and for helping me understand our past and our history,, better so.

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Curt brown, osbt: you're here, thank you, dan.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,. I think we can go on to public comment and so check in again with allison.

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Curt brown, osbt:. How many do we have signed up at this point? Allison.

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Alison ecklund, cob: well, we had one signed up. I don't see him on here, though,, so we do have one called an iphone. So if you are on an iphone- and you would like me to rename you so that you can unmute yourself to speak,- you can text me seven to 05768593 so text me your full name, and I can rename you.

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Alison ecklund,, cob: and then,. If you join the meeting, and you would like to raise your hand to speak,, you can have our open your participants icon at the bottom, and in that participants box,. There will be a raise your hand, button, that you can.

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Alison ecklund,, cob: click or sometimes now raise your hand is appearing in the reactions icon, so.

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Alison ecklund, cob: and then we have one hand raise and then we'll see. If the person who signed up joins us as well.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah that makes sense,. Why don't we start with lynn okay.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, so lynn, um.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, you can go ahead and unmute.

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Lynn, segal: great thanks,. Can you hear me okay.

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Lynn, segal: yes,, if it starts to get choppy, call me out at any moment.

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Lynn, segal: um. lynn, segal:. I wanted to bring up this issue that now we're back to the.

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Lynn, segal: hundred year variant, one.

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Lynn, segal: on to shell and I'm highly recommending.

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Lynn, segal:- and I thought I thought this would be the case with this last year- that we've been working on this issue.

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Lynn, segal: of the upstream to dimension that was a no go from the start,. I don't know how much money we spent on that,, but it was a waste, in my opinion,, and I know that you didn't agree with me, kurt but.

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Lynn segal:. I also think that the hundred year variant with any kind of dam or detention is the wrong way to go, and I'd say that we need an investigation on that. Unless somehow someone's going to recommend to the.

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Lynn, segal: council to direct the.

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Lynn, segal: the staff, joe and and brian.

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Lynn, segal: you a alternative, sips mitigation of this flow patterns,. I think there's this desperation to get 100 year done and there doesn't need to be.

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Lynn, segal: that there can be a much better mitigation 500 to 1000, with keeping the stream and the stream diverting itself boulder creek into the main flow and taking it all dredging it all. The way out of town. That's going to have much less effect on the natural of the space and the.

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Lynn, segal: the. lynn, segal:, habitat., lynn, segal:. In the long run it's going to be a much better option.

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And lynn segal: dredging it down to any depth that you want, depending on how many years, and then you can also change that, as you move along,. If you want it 500 now,, but you want to make it 1000 later,. You can dredge it deeper.

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Lynn, segal: and then build up this side with rocks and I'm appropriately, all the way out of town.

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Lynn, segal:- and this is just the most intuitively.

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Lynn, segal: thoughtful way to get this this a libyan that, unfortunately, we have to change, because people built in this land,, and so we need to change it. This way,, not with dams that are going to require a rebuilding and a lot of maintenance and.

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Lynn, segal: have and have no variability and how many year flood, you can detain, and I don't think it should be a cop. It's a conflict of interest, the way it is now between annexation and mitigation, and you need to stand up for mitigation exclusive of annexation, thank.

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Curt brown, osbt:. Thank you. Lynn.

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Curt brown, osbt: allison: where are we with the other members of the public.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, I'm not seeing him.

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Alison ecklund, cob: he's joining us and I don't see any other hands. Race.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,. Well then that.

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Curt brown, osbt: closes the public comment, period.

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Curt brown, osbt: and next we'll move on to matters of the department. Dan go right, ahead.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah thanks kurt tonight, we've got a couple of items under matters that will be presenting. The first is we're going to present in.

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Cob, dan burke: phase one results of the parking study.

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Cob, dan burke:, then we're going to talk about the 10 year, planning horizon,. As far as our first step of reaching out to the board on our lesson, piece planning framework I'll have some a couple of brief.

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Cob, dan burke: verbal updates. So that's what matters looks like tonight and we're going to start things off with anna reed who's, going to provide you all, with a presentation of our.

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Cob, dan burke: parking study phase one results so with that I'll turn things over to anna.

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Anna reed, cob: okay, thank you, dan and I'm excited to have my first presentation with you. All.

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Anna reed, cob: share the screen.

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Anna reed, cob: alright,, so thank you, everyone for being here this evening,, as dan mentioned. My name is anna reed and I'm a human dimensions. Analyst with city of boulder, open space in mountain parks.,.

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Anna reed, cob:, this presentation is on the 2019 2020 perkins study,, which represents phase one to phase study to better understand how osm p trailhead plots are utilized.

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Anna reed, cob:, as mentioned in the memo, this presentation will expand on written information provided for the january,. It was the team meeting and will provide opportunity for questions and feedback.

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Cob, dan burke: and and it's not showing up if you've already projected it just.

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Anna reed, cob:, it's not.

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Anna reed, cob:, let's see this screen to.

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Anna reed, cob:, I have to hit share.

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Cob, dan burke: there you go.

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Curt brown, osbt:, we see them.

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Curt brown, osbt:, you may want to enlarge it.

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anna reed, cob: there we go.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, okay, you've got you've, got your note showing on the right panel. I don't know if you want to have.

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Anna reed, cob: share screen screen to share all right.

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Cob, dan burke: perfect.

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Anna reed, cob: there you go all right. Third time's, a charm.

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Anna reed, cob: alright.

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Anna reed, cob: so to outline what we'll be covering we'll start with a background and overview of the study and then take a high level. Look at of high level look of methods, results next steps and followed by potential applications and questions at the end.

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Anna reed, cob: alright,, so some background,, the need for the study, extends back at least to the 2005 visitor master plan, which product concerns about parking and congestion at various drill has more recently these issues of reemerged and have been confirmed. With.

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Anna reed,, cob: and areas of concern include congestion, safety, parking availability and equity, increased visitor use and social, ecological capacity.

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Anna reed, cob: and linking it to our master plan strategies listed here, parking for the most part, fits pretty solidly and the responsible recreations direction and enjoyment focus area.

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Anna reed, cob: namely, assess and manage increasing visitation, encouraged multimodal access to trail heads and develop a learning laboratory approach to recreation.

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Anna reed, cob:, it also supports communication with visitors and helps, inform or fill facilities and services. Delivery.

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Anna reed, cob:, and we can even argue that it extends beyond these. So assuming we can use the data presented here to encourage multimodal access to trail heads and reduce vehicle arrivals, you can start to get into the realm of reducing greenhouse gas emissions and addressing the client.

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Anna reed, cob:, so this is all to say that parking is often a major part of the visitor experience and has many applications. Looking forward.

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Anna reed, cob: here's an overview of the perkins study as a whole,. The objective of phase one is to obtain baseline occupancy data of 34 s. Amp p manage trailhead blocks.

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Anna reed, cob:, so these three four lots makeup. All of these formal parking areas on a snp, property,, all of them, except for fourth of july trailhead, simply because of its distance.

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Anna reed, cob: and we had to draw the line somewhere,, so it excludes neighborhood parking and other areas where parking overflows to areas,, not on listening property.

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Anna reed, cob: from this phase, we can obtain information, such as when and how frequently lots reach capacity and as a result,, we can learn when overflow might be happening.

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Anna reed, cob:, the objective of phase two is to understand the primary contributors of congestion at six busier lots. So essentially, why do busier lots, reach capacity so frequently.

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Anna reed, cob:, we know some locations are simply popular,, but we still haven't quantified. Some related aspects, such as turnover parking, duration and number of people for per vehicle.

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Anna reed, cob:, this information will all be very important if we decide to pursue a management action down. The road.

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Anna reed, cob: and here at the bottom, you can see a timeline of the study. We started installing equipment and piloting and.

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Anna reed, cob: and started official data collection in june 2019. We intended to have a full year of data,, but with coven.

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Anna reed, cob:, we have more opportunistic data from march 2020 on you're able to continue collecting data at some sites,, but not all of them..

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Anna reed, cob:, these two is plan to start later this year and will be completed by the end of the year, will share it compiled report for both phases in early 2022, but will, of course have phase one data before then.

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Anna reed, cob:, such as what I'm going to share in a couple minutes.

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Anna reed, cob: so phase one methods,, the fun thing about smp trail heads is they're all different, shapes and sizes. So it's really not feasible to use the same approach for all locations.

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Anna reed, cob: the most straightforward way to count the number of vehicles and a lot is to use the vehicle counter. So we installed these where we could. This has to do with the layout and composition of the access road.

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Anna reed, cob: at other locations,, we installed trail counters and took advantage of some already installed for our long term. Monitoring.

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Anna reed, cob:, we did a fair amount of piloting, to confirm that we could reliably get parking data from these trail. Counts.

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Anna reed, cob: for all these locations with trail and vehicle counters, we also did direct observations,, so this means going to the trailhead and counting the number of vehicles parked there,. So this stands alone as a pretty reliable data set and also helps us to validate and analyze the other methods.

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Anna reed, cob: and finally,, we installed cameras at sites to basically fill in the gaps,, where it wasn't realistic to install vehicle counters or trail counters..

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Anna reed, cob: for most of these, the layout doesn't work for vehicle counters again, based on the access road and trail counts cannot be relatively correlated with the number of vehicles parked in a lot.

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Anna reed, cob:, we see this,, for example, at buckingham park,, where there are multiple trails from different corners of the lot. Another example includes many to pull off parking lots off of flagstaff, where visitors, disperse or don't even go on a trail after parking.

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Anna reed, cob:, so there's a few different methods going on,, but despite having these different methods,, they can all boil down to a common data. Set.

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Anna reed, cob:, so between cameras and observations, we cover all of the trailhead lots and from that we have a good data set of occupancy, descriptive steps. The downside is we're limited to the dates and times we are able to get out there, and when we had cameras a.

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Anna reed, cob: vehicle counters once installed and running, collects inbound and outbound data. 24 seven.

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Anna reed, cob:, so in addition to the occupancy stats, we can get a sense of the hourly vehicle, arrivals and departures, for example.

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Anna reed, cob: for trail counters, we pair trial, account data with our observations to give us a percent occupancy predictive model.

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Anna reed, cob: so a little farther removed, but we're sort of getting good data from those and again a few different methods,. But they can essentially all boil down to occupancy data with some opportunities for higher resolution information,. Depending on the method that we used.

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Anna reed, cob: so, moving right along to results, the fun part. There's a few things going on in this table. So I'll spend a couple minutes. Here.

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Anna reed, cob:, all the data here is from our observation and camera data, so essentially our eyes on the ground for the number of vehicles, parked.

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Anna reed, cob:, the estimated capacity, was almost its own mini project. It's straightforward and some lots. It's simply the number of delineated standards, faces.

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Anna reed, cob: but,, especially in our natural surface, lots. The effect of capacity can range by quite a lot,, depending on how people park and lots of other factors,. These numbers represent how many standard size vehicles good, typically in legally park in each law, but there can of course, be some variation.

I

Anna reed, cob:, the hours, you see,, there are from 9am through 4pm. We have data outside of these hours that, with camera and observation data producing these hours was the most straightforward way and most reliable way to compare all the sites to each other..

I

Anna reed, cob: and then you can see,. We have the column of averages, that's the average for those hours and that's what all the locations are sorted by and then we have the averages for weekdays and weekends and the colors. You can see range from orange to green, to blue with the average percent occupancy.

I

Anna reed, cob:, so some examples of at least what I found interesting, chautauqua and settlers park have similar levels of occupancy regardless of week day or weekend. Should talk was a bit busier on weekends,, but having an average in the 90s is pretty impressive. Regardless.

I

Anna reed, cob: centennial parking lot is pretty full on weekends at 90% occupancy, but on average for these hours it's about two thirds full during the week.

I

Anna reed, cob:, you can see some larger gaps by weekday and weekend at sites like realization point south mesa, holder valley, ranch and eagle.

I

Anna reed, cob:, you can also see interesting differences by time of day, for example,, dry, creek and veterans. Vista are busier earlier in the day and law school starts getting busier in the afternoon.

I

Anna reed, cob:, so there's a lot of information to tease out of this table. It's not all the data we have again. We have data outside these hours, and we can split off hours by the day and weekend,, but we thought it was a nice and easy visual way to compare all the different locations to each other.

I

Anna reed, cob:, we also develop the heat map to visualize the data and as a helpful way to look at the supply and then and demand spatially across the system..

I

Anna reed, cob: and to see how percent occupancy relates to parking lots, size or capacity. So here the larger circles represent a larger sized lot and the darker purple color represents higher average percent occupancy.

I

Anna reed, cob:, so some examples here we can see areas around the system where the average percent occupancy is are higher.

I

Anna reed, cob: for example,, where we might expect in the west,. We can also see areas like teller, north and south, have relatively larger lots and lower average occupancy and sites like bob blink and dry creek have relatively smaller loss and higher average percent.

I

Anna reed, cob: right next steps,, so the data shown here data shown here really just scratches the surface of what we collected and there's a lot more coming.

I

Anna reed, cob: with additional analysis,, we can start looking at monthly variations hours outside of the 9am to 5pm and night use,. You can look at coven impacts that sites where we have that available data horse, trailer use and other examples.

I

Anna reed, cob: reporting we're working on a technical report that will be released soon and that will have more of the site. Specific data.

I

Anna reed, cob: more exciting is,. We want to make the data more publicly available,, so this could look like an interactive platform or some way for people to view and interact with the data.

I

Anna reed, cob:, we also want to combine it with other data sets,, namely trail counters and surveys,. This can help us answer. Questions such as how does occupancy relate to visitor experiences,? How does it relate to residency and, to what extent extent is a full lot impact visitation numbers on the trail.

I

Anna reed, cob: we're also planning to continue collecting data, we're feasible in where we have more permanent infrastructure. Installed.

I

Anna reed, cob:, what we have here is a static data set,, but we have the potential to share, not live data, but data. That's updated for right currently for some sites. So that's in the works.

I

Anna reed, cob:, we have phase two so again. We're planning to start data collection later this year and the variables that were interested in include how long vehicles are part time, frequently they're getting turned away.

I

Anna reed, cob: and it's the number of single occupancy vehicles,, as well as some other things, and the locations that were planning to look at our centennial south mesa, daddy, draw settlers park, link and flattered system..

I

Anna reed, cob:, these are all sites that are towards the higher end of the table for higher average occupancy sees and they representative receive locations that could be reaching capacity for different, reasons.

I

Anna reed, cob: as a whole,. This will allow us to further evaluate what is going on, when lots are full.

I

Anna reed, cob: potential applications there's a lot of potential ways that we can use information gathered in this study.

I

Anna reed, cob: some examples range from helping visitors, plan trips and forming staff of when lots are likely overflowing and when illegal parking is occurring and help us collaborate more with transportation and community vitality. When overflow impacts to occur.

I

Anna reed, cob:, we could also it can also help us answer emerging questions such as better understanding, coven impacts to visitation. The data showed here is from before those impacts,. So a next step is looking at how things have changed.

I

Anna reed, cob:, it could also help us answer, how much or our horse trailer and ada accessible spaces used and where and when do we see the most night use, and how does lot size release relate to trail use.

I

Anna reed, cob: and finally management strategies which ones are feasible and where and when would they be most effective.

I

Anna reed, cob:, the intent of the study, was to collect baseline data and serve as a starting point for discussions down the road.

I

Anna reed, cob:, it will help us to be better prepared and better able to measure trends and effects of any management actions that we want to explore, and it will help us prioritize where and when to focus our efforts.

I

Anna reed, cob: now, and knowledge acknowledgments,, I think,, as was mentioned before, it was a big study, and I want to particularly thank the human dimensions. Team.

I

Anna reed, cob:, which is listed here, dion colon and heidi for guidance and logistics, dominic libby, katie mp,, who helped with data collection, at one time or another. During the study, period.

I

Anna reed, cob: and many others have also helped. We had trailhead closures, signage, signage, science, review,, so a big thanks goes out to all them.

I

Anna reed, cob: and finally, questions and any feedback on touch locations or anything else.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: okay,, raise your hand if you have a question here.

A

Curt brown, osbt: hello.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: um first off,. Thank you for the presentation,. I found that really fascinating,, particularly the data rich piece,, and it may have been just been my eye,, but one thing that seems clear is that our users don't see esta the high.

E

Hal hallstein,, osbt:, high middle of the day is, is the moment.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:. My question is about parking surfaces. It's my recollection that we do have a collection of lots that include both dirt surfaces and also paid services, and I'm wondering if you have done any look at correlation between.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: parking lot use and surface type, ie that people are are more apt to drive into paved parking areas.

I

Anna reed, cob: now that's an interesting question and that's honestly,, something I haven't thought of yet,, but that's something we can definitely.

E

Anna reed, cob: do. hal hallstein, osbt: okay,, and then I guess the other thing I would add on that. I'd be personally interested to know if the usage of square footage is materially different in paved lots with lines versus online dirt. Lots.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, basically, caught actual realized card density by surface type.

I

Anna reed, cob: that's an interesting question too yeah. So if there's no delineated lines, two vehicles kind of tend to cram in more or.

I

Anna reed, cob: park further apart from each other yeah.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: yeah, that's great, and I guess the third leg of that. Maybe this is more of a question for dan perhaps.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:. What can you explain how it comes to be that we have a paved lot, as opposed to a dirt one and how all that works regarding the charter,, etc.

H

Cob, dan burke: yeah, that's really interesting, in fact,. I was out on the system with steve armstead last week and.

H

Cob, dan burke:, we were at four mile creek in with a paved lie, and I asked steve I said: how did this get to be paved so steve if you're on the call, if maybe you have more history, on.

H

Cob, dan burke: how lots got to be paved but that the that anecdote that you told me about that particular parking lot was interesting.

L

Cob, steve armstead: that dirt, like didn't just say, I think now having just heard, dan and thinking about this,. We have the four mile and then of course, chautauqua.

L

Cob,, steve armstead:, which are the two paved, but those are primarily because they're inside the city limits and they fall under city code.,.

L

Cob, steve armstead: for think,, whereas a predominance of our parking lots are outside the city limits in there for that are not subject to the city code and we can have.

L

Cob, steve armstead: surfaces for those, and I think that's why you typically have the road base or a gravel surface and majority of the flagstaff summit, I guess, would be the other example the paved and that was originally not paved..

L

Cob, steve armstead:, but I think, with the wear and tear because of the mountain,, the level of traffic up there, eventually, was paved to help on the surface.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, so the ones in the city you couldn't remove the pavement, even if you wanted to I.

L

Cob,, steve armstead: think that may be the case,, but I would I would I'm can't say: I'm up to snuff on the current code required certainly was applicable when we put those trail heads in.

L

Cob,, steve armstead: that gym even know more factual what we currently stand,, but I think that would be something we'd have to be compliant with the current conditions.

H

Cob, dan burke: being another example, yeah.

L

Cob, steve armstead:, oh yes,, yep.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I'm sorry again,. Could you say that again.

H

Cob, dan burke: yeah, no wonder, and like another example of a page. What is within the city limits.

B

Karen hollweg,, osbt: and settlers park.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, yeah, okay, good.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah, and thanks for that that was.

F

Dave kuntz,, osbt: very interesting and I think long overdue,. The my comment is regarding the history of parking areas on the system, and I think it's worth.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know the department acknowledging that, historically, the reason for many of the lots in the shape there and it's basically, it was trying to replicate.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, ranch, corral and, and so early on,. When the access issue wasn't as prevalent, and you know the the parking demand was was certainly far less than it is today. That was basically it,. I think the the intent system wide was to you know, maintain a western flavor, for you, know, access, to.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: to the system and combining that with the reg boards and the information boards, which reflected more of a national park kind of.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: information. There are trailhead setting those words,. I think the two main issues related to.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: joe, had parking so now,. I think you were asking about applications, now. The the fact of the matter is, is that do those you know, parking areas actually function.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: under the current circumstances,, and I think more recently, we've seen you know flat irons vista, for example, is, is a good example of parking area that was was reconfigured and reconstructed to be.

F

Dave kuntz,, osbt:, more efficient and more flexible and to appeal to different users, ie horse trailer, parking.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: specifically,, anyway, historically,. I think we should acknowledge that most of those trail heads were you know,, trying to reflect more western heritage and we're just basically corral rectangles, quite frankly, and whether they had much, much.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: benefit for access, probably wasn't an issue that was considered important, you.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. What's your thoughts, I see darren.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, I just popped on hi everybody during wagner,. You know the conversation is just so interesting to me,. I appreciate how the direction has gone because you're bringing up some questions, that staff have been.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: talking about lately, as it relates to the aesthetics and functionality of our parking. Lots are trail, heads our facilities and dave you're, absolutely right,. You know our conversation is largely trying to respond to the landscape character and the history of the site.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, I was just recollecting a when I worked, the national park service,. We had a consultant, try and propose a design for us, as we were expanding parking at bryce canyon that look much like something that you'd see in front of walmart and.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: that didn't go over so well with us, so you know we have a lot to balance in terms of efficiency, but also character and experience. So it's it's something that we're certainly looking at.

A

Curt brown, osbt: other thoughts folks, so karen that's your hand up, and then I've got caroline.

B

B

karen hollweg, osbt: in the., karen hollweg, osbt: conclusion part of your report,. You say.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: that.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the data, will be instrumental in determining how to maintain positive, visitor experience as well, sustaining ecosystem health.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, can you give me a couple examples of that in terms of what you do and how you're focusing on things.

I

Anna reed, cob: sure um I think part of what I was thinking of writing that is we'll have to think about the social and ecological capacity.

I

Anna reed, cob:, if you know with we, want to do any management actions down the road and part of what we're doing with our surveys, is kind of keeping a pulse on visitor experiences. Experiences.

I

Anna reed, cob:, so we asked them about. We asked them to rate different things about parking if it was difficult or easy to find a spot and that type of thing.

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Anna reed, cob: we're going to ask more about crowding and so part of what I think we're intending to do is kind of keep tabs on that and then for each location,. You know,, ideally we'll we'll, have a sense of our.

I

Anna reed, cob:, like our kind of our vision for the area, and what useful look like and again what the ecology will look like and see if it makes sense, to.

I

Anna reed, cob: either expand parking, reduce parking, facilitate people getting there with a shuttle. I think thinking of the social and ecological parts will just help us figure out what we want to do down the road.

I

Anna reed,, cob: and others feel free to jump. In.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, and that goes that goes along with statements like that. This is not directly linked to any plan management actions,. So I understand that for my.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: perspective.

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karen hollweg, osbt: my biggest question is,. Can we sustain the ecosystems help.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: with more visitors,, so I would flip the question and say you know before I'm going to be amenable to expanding parking or increasing numbers of people at any trailhead. I'm going to want you to come to me and say,. This is the status of the ecosystem health for this part of the system.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and therefore we don't think- or we do think that we can accommodate more visitors,. So I would encourage you to keep that in mind, as you move forward it. For me, it's not how many people, we can stack into any given trailhead it's what is,. What is the status of the.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: systems, ecosystem health.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and.

B

Karen hollweg,, osbt: and therefore, can the system in this part withstand more visitors.

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Anna reed, cob: sure yeah. I think that's definitely something to consider with it and limiting.

B

Anna reed, cob: and I'm working. karen hollweg, osbt: and I'm sure your human dimension staff, now a lot of ways that they can look at all sorts of data and determine that first before we have a conversation about parking, lots, further.

A

Curt brown, osbt: gary.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, thanks kurt, I was just gonna, say: you'll notice that there's a nice logic to the order of the presentations tonight, because we'll just dip into this a bit karen. As we start talking about what our next planning efforts may look, like.

A

Curt brown,, osbt:, okay, I've got caroline and then dave.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: dave: what's your comment, like a kind of a colloquy off of karen? Did you want to throw something in there with her comment.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: actually,, it was but.

F

dave, kuntz, osbt:. I can wait.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: no, no, go ahead,, please I'll, go after you, so just.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: piggybacking on karen's comment, a little anna. I am darren. I am a little concerned about and you referenced this a couple of times in in.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: your presentation,, the use of the term social, slash ecological capacity,. Where relates to.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: parking lots are trailhead parking,, so I would strongly urge that you do two things. One is separate those out because they are definitely not the same, and be a little more specific,, because I think, as karen is mentioning we're talking about the ecological health.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: system, or certainly the area and in without kind of that, more definitive description, you're sitting there wondering well what ecological capacity does a parking lot. You know, and I think what we're what we're trying to do is say: look.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know parking areas can certainly influence or impact,. You know what happens out on the system,, and so my recommendation is to you know pick is to not use that.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: those terms you know kind of together and separate the model and be a little more specific on exactly the relationship of trailhead parking to both. What karen is talking about is visitor use, their capacity and also ecosystem help.

F

Anna reed, cob: thank you,. I think that's fair.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, curly.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: hey,, thank you for your presentation, anna and I am so excited to hear that you were excited to present for us hang out with us,, and that was exciting for you. So.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, thank you for saying that we're excited to have you, and just so I don't forget dave,. Thank you for that information that that you gave with the crowd rectangles it's just nice to hear that kind of history and have all of that put together, so that was neat,. Thank you for sharing that.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, so anna, I heard you say a couple of things that I thought was.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: interesting one of them was how does a full lot impact use on the trail, and when you said that my immediate thought went to.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know, someone going for a hike. They pull up the parking lots full. Where do they go next? Where are their next spots? Do they have like a top three and then, after that they they simply give up and and try to you know, head out earlier, the next day.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, are you guys, while you might not be able to give any info represent on that tonight? Are, is? Is that kind of a an idea of what you guys are trying to track, and in that way.

I

Anna reed, cob: yeah, that's a it's a hard thing to answer,, because once they get find a spot, we're not able to survey them.

I

Anna reed, cob:, we have in the past, asked.

I

anna reed, cob: people if they weren't able to find a parking spot. Where did they go.

I

Anna reed, cob: and, in some cases at like centennial or chautauqua, a lot of times, we'll just say, well, the same lot I'll just you know park in the neighborhood or you know, find some other spot.

I

Anna reed, cob: at places like south maicer doubt you draw that's not as much of an option and so we've tried to capture some of that again. It's hard.

I

Anna reed, cob: in the upcoming survey effort we're going to be asking people where they were before they came to the trailhead. So that will help us capture if they tried to get to a lot, or you know, go to a different trailhead weren't able to find a spot.

I

Anna reed, cob:, where, where did they come from and then hopefully we'll be able to learn more about that.

I

Anna reed, cob: yeah, but that's that is a tricky one and it's something that we, we often think about.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah and then the other thing that I heard you say I just didn't know if you had any additional detail.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: was helping them plan the trips and in my head, when, when you said that I'm like there's an app for that.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know I just I. I think it's such a great idea and again tricky and how to execute something like that,. But are you? Are you able,, with the with the data that you're collecting from the way that you're doing it to.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: really find a way to be able to help them plan. So, like you could tell people ahead of time,, you know, will save you the time and energy if you're not at this lot. By.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know, we've been been recording this for a year and we can pretty much tell you unless you're coming in,, when someone's going out you're not going to have you know a good chance to? Are you able to do things like that, with the with the data.

I

Anna reed, cob: yeah, I think we can we'll definitely want to keep tabs on how use changes, because, of course, it,. You know it's. It's shifted around a bit with coven, but with the data set that we have.

I

Anna reed, cob:, I know other places like boulder county will have like this is what parking tends to look like,, and so we can have kind of like the. What you see on like google maps. You'll, see like what use tends to look like.

I

Anna reed, cob: and that could at least help people,, so they could know like okay, if I'm trying to go to so the slot at this time. On this day, I probably will have trouble finding a spot. Okay, great.

G

Caroline miller,, osbt: and then, for me, my time at the trails is pretty early. When I head out,, you know who doesn't love a sunrise apply,, so I actually will come down a lot,. You know, right after sunrise and.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know the city of boulder seems to get up and moving pretty early,, so the stuff that you showed today was from 9am but I,. I am a part of the group that is out in the trails hours before.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: 9am, so it would be really interesting to see.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, if you have that data, you know, like, for example.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, our people that wonder them lake.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know, is that parking lot really getting filled up at 6am.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know versus you know other other places like how how are those looking a bit earlier,? I just I would be interested in the data for that sunrise hour and seeing.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: how that goes,, you know shanahan I'll, come down.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know 45 minutes after sunrise and it is like packed.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: so.

J

Caroline miller, osbt:, so yeah so just kind of knowing those like early hours to and where those seem to like I'd be I'd, be interested to know. More.

I

Anna reed, cob: yeah well we'll definitely share more the site, specific data when, when we have it,- and that will include stuff like that, we see some really interesting. Things like we can see the before and after work.

I

Anna reed, cob: places and where we see the. anna reed,, cob: kind of dips like that, or like in the summer,, when it's really hot, will see the different tips words busier earlier in later in the day,. So that's definitely coming yeah great okay.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, thank you so much yeah.

A

Curt brown, osbt: other questions or thoughts, here.

H

Cob, dan burke:, current god, leslie, has has had his hand up. I'm wondering if he.

H

Cob, dan burke: has right. He wants to add.

N

Colin leslie, cob: sure,, I was a it was just when I both you karen and dave, we're we're talking about the interplay between sort of social dynamics and then understanding the.

N

Colin leslie, cob: logical functioning of the area too.

N

Colin leslie, cob:, I think,, as probably all of us, know it's that sort of the million dollar question right and the big challenge really.

N

Colin leslie, cob:, you know, with with this data collection, with a lot of the work, we're doing with trail counters. What we're trying to get at is.

N

Colin leslie, cob: to sort of understand the functioning of those systems or,, particularly the visitation system.

N

Colin leslie, cob:, so that,, even if it, you know, takes us a long time to answer that million dollar question, the more pieces, we can understand, and when we.

N

Colin leslie, cob: proposals come up and we're running through scenario, analyses and saying. Well, if we, if we put pressure here, what happens right in terms of.

N

Colin leslie, cob: visitation systems- that's really smart, where we're at is putting all these pieces together, is to try and give us an understanding.

N

Colin leslie, cob: of sort of how,, at least the visitation system, works in and of itself,, so that if we do right, try and make those tweaks, we can have a little bit of heads up about what how we might expect things to respond.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, but I think we also know, as this this board has discussed several times over the last year that the system is really getting degraded by some of the heavy use and and so, in my opinion,. I think we need to hit head on.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the question of where is the degradation happening.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and where is the heavy use, and I think, those two things coincide,, but I may be wrong.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and therefore,, where are we damaging the system more than we're enhancing visitor use,? So I don't think we can deal with just visitor use by itself and- and I keep wondering whether the human dimension staff is is collecting and looking at and analyzing.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, some of the important data about the ecological systems.

N

Colin leslie, cob: in this case,, we were looking to work closely with our ecologists in in beginning to to bring together those data,. You know down the road so.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, yeah colin. I will simply say that the cautionary note that concern I have is that I think in in the relative sense the social data that is recreation, economic that are far easier, more easily measured,. Then the ecological.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: data collection and I just.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, don't want us to kind of put all the proverbial eggs in that basket. Just because you know we.

F

Karen hollweg, osbt: can see the account. dave kuntz, osbt: yeah,, so I think my recommendation would be to do around the, on the other side and make sure that we're getting the best in most complete, accurate and comprehensive ecological information that we can.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: has anybody. I either in the human dimension staff or have.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: any any of your your staff or smp staff dan looked at, for instance, the status of the ace hca courage and where we're losing.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the highest quality habitat that we've designated hca.

H

Cob, dan burke:, so john potter.

H

Cob, dan burke:, brian anak or heather, if you're on the line, you can jump in on this one, too,, but I know that we are planning to bring forward. We haven't quite pigeon it in as far as when exactly in 2021. We want to bring out some ecological data,, but we do have.

H

Cob, dan burke: that as an agenda item that we're looking for for the back, half of 2021 to look at some of the data sets that we have on our collection of of ecologically based data,. But not john. I don't know if you want to add anything to that or brian and tucker.

O

John potter, cob: good dude., john potter, cob: yeah. Really we don't have a strong feeling that there's degradation occurring in hca is, in fact,, while there might have been some increased incursions.

O

John potter, cob: to do to code, which we did. Let you guys know about someone recently. We really don't see it as impacting the overall health of the hca, as in any significant long term way. That's not what we've been observing,. We have also asked.

O

John potter, cob:, dion and heather to start to put their heads together about how can we start to bring these data sets together? The information that we have on the ecological monitoring with the information that.

O

John potter,, cob:, dion and call and anna have been developing on the human dimension side, so that's really the cutting edge. Of course, the trick,. The challenge will be being able to draw strong conclusions. About.

O

John potter, cob:, you know what what the what the causation of an impact is, and that's going to be something that is relatively expensive to really tease out definitively. But what it can do is to start to give us some sense of what might be.

O

John potter, cob: going on so. john potter, cob:. That is our hope and and a direction that staff will be continue to explore.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: well,, I know you're off trail use um that that promotes fragmentation of habitat.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, my anecdotal evidence, says that when people feel like the trails are too crowded, they take off and make their own trail and go their own way and that that is not advantageous to the ecosystem..

O

John potter, cob: yeah. john potter, cob:, I think, as you know,. We also have a project in reducing on designated trails and that that that is also being done in a prioritized fashion to dress just what you're after dion did you have something to add.

P

Deonne vanderwoude: yeah hi everybody I didn't want to say, thanks to anna. This was her first big project for open space and milan parks and really proud of all the work that she did.

P

Deonne vanderwoude:, going into this big of a data set for 34 of our lunch. It's just amazing to us all, we're happy to share tonight and then getting back to the ecological human dimensions.

P

Deonne vanderwoude: question,. I just wanted to reiterate that h,, the human dimensions team that measures, the human component system, all of the ecological data, would come from our ecology, stuff.

P

Deonne vanderwoude: and I think as john just mentioned,, it is one of our aspirations to start lining up now that we have parking data, we're starting to have long term.

P

Deonne vanderwoude: to counting data. We have tenable visitor survey,, including all the attributes of you, know who's coming,. We can start to overlay them.

P

Deonne vanderwoude:, on top of each other and figure out. If there's any relationships there, between type type of us level of us distribution across the system and the health of the ecological resources.

P

Deonne vanderwoude:, but we don't manage the ecological data,. We would provide our part.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: we're all aware of human dimensions being separate from the ecology stuff,, but I just think.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: that that one can operate without the other,. Otherwise we don't have an open space system. That's worth preserving.

P

Cob, dan burke:, correct and as I'm.

P

Deonne vanderwoude: just gonna say, as anna showed in that application slide.

P

Deonne vanderwoude:, the intention there for integrating with other data sets, of course, is going to be trial.

P

Deonne vanderwoude: trial condition any any dataset any type of resource that we manage,, including you know, infrastructure parking, visitor experience. The recreation resources.

P

Deonne vanderwoude:, you know vegetation anything that we're concerned with. As we develop this comprehensive look at what's going on recreationally, we can understand them in relation to the condition of other types of resources that we manage.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: thanks kurt.

E

hal, hallstein, osbt:, and uh one last thing that just occurred to me in this discussion,. You discuss that you're going to collect data on single occupancy vehicles,, which I think is a very interesting data. Set.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, it sounds like you guys, have a lot on your plate already,, but if there's any way for us to look within that group,, how many of those people are walking? Dogs I'd be very interested in that.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: because it's not really possible to ride a bike with you know, to go, walk a dog,. Nor is it really that feasible to use public transportation.

E

Hal hallstein,, osbt: and so I'd be really interested to see if we found some correlation in that area. I don't know if it's practical or possible, but I'd love to know more about that.

I

Anna reed, cob: sure yeah we're going to be doing some piloting soon, and my my gut is that might be a little too much to collect with this one,. But that is data that we collect through.

I

Anna reed, cob: surveys and we do other observations,, and so we can still pair it with different sites and get a sense of how many people are arriving. With.

I

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: okay, thank you.

P

Deonne vanderwoude: um yeah, so how,. If you have access to the 2016 2017 report on our website, that particular piece of information,, you can find in the appendix table.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: well, great.

E

hal hallstein, osbt:. I'm gonna make a note of that right. Now.

P

Deonne, vanderwoude: and that'll be something that will repeat,, as I mentioned in our upcoming visitor survey, which we do every five years, so last conducted in 2016 2017 and two we launched again this summer.

P

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:. Thank you very much., hal hallstein, osbt:. There's, no quick brief on the finding for us right now is there.

P

Deonne vanderwoude: were you looking for who arrives in car versus walks by activity. Types, such as a dog walker.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: yeah was was looking to see if there's a relationship between single occupancy vehicles and dog walking.

P

Deonne vanderwoude:, I'm sorry, I misunderstood,, I thought you meant I'm writing by car just in general,, so scratch,. What I just said about table will be 28 is looking at.

P

Deonne vanderwoude: mode of arrival,, including vehicle transport by activity,, so you can see the breakout of dog walkers that came by car versus walked versus run. You know: bike other.,.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: great that'll, be very interesting to that's great clarification, thank you.

I

Anna reed, cob: yeah- I don't know if we've done that particular cross tabs yet,, but we can do, who who visited by themselves and came into vehicle and had a dog okay, at least system wide. We can get that information and then this next year we'll have a better idea of more site. Specific.

E

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, you're, muted, current.

A

Curt brown, osbt: up sorry any other comments. Folks before we let these folks go.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: and the rest of the staff,. Thank you very much,. You can see it's a great interest to the board, and we look forward to learning more. So thank you and dan back to you.

H

Cob, dan burke: yeah thanks, and thanks anna congratulations.

H

Cob, dan burke: and cob, dan burke: karen. um We have our agenda, setting meeting that we take a look,. You know months ahead and I'll walk, hey a particular attention to some of that ecological data and and when we thought we would have be ready to present some things on that. So there'll be top of my mind when we look ahead.

H

Cob, dan burke: um yeah. So next we are going to go into the next item,, which is our first step on our 10 year. Outlook for the smp planning framework and looking forward to tonight and.

H

Cob, dan burke: I'm going to be joined a little bit later by mark davidson and darren wagner, who actually take the ball of the specific presentation on on the first step of looking at the big major planning, efforts.

H

Cob, dan burke: so, look forward to that,, but I do want to spend about five or 10 minutes,, providing some contexts that I think would be helpful.

H

Cob, dan burke: for our presentation tonight and and actually just setting context, in general,, even in context setting for when lauren starts, to come forward and presenting budget and those type of items as well, so.

H

Cob, dan burke: bear with me for a little context, setting and darned. If we can go to the next slide, so tonight will be our first touch with the board. With regards to the master plan strategy on to the financial sustainability focus area of update our planning, framework.

H

Cob, dan burke:, we have several objectives that we hope to achieve. Tonight.

H

Cob, dan burke: and they include explaining and describing our proposed timeline and sequencing of a few new major planning initiatives that staff is envision initiating and completing over the course of the 10 year master plan time horizon.

H

Cob, dan burke: will be referring to these major planning initiatives as big lifts. So you'll hear that term in somebody.

H

Cob, dan burke:, you might want to have a guessing game,, but I would I would guess it at least a couple dozen times. Tonight.

H

Cob, dan burke:, so another objective tonight is to provide the board with the definition of what it means. When we say a big lift.

H

Cob, dan burke: to describe the organizational capacity required to initiate and complete a big lift and why big lifts impact our ability to simultaneously implement other high priority and necessary projects and actions.

H

Cob, dan, burke: and finally,. What we hope to achieve tonight is to summarize some next steps for continuing our discussion with the board on updating voice and ps planning, framework.

H

Cob, dan burke: so during. If we can go to the next slide so, but before launching into the specific presentation on the topic of big lifts.

H

Cob, dan burke:, I thought it would first be helpful to again to describe and summarize the components and the aspects and the considerations that go into developing our annual work plan. And, in turn, to inform our annual budget.

H

Cob, dan burke: and if we start here,, this will help us to illustrate why it is necessary and and important that we take a very intentional, deliberate and strategic approach to when we schedule in big list into our work plans and budgets.

H

Cob, dan burke:, so I'm going to spend the next few minutes kind of describing components of our annual work plan to set the stage for.

H

Cob, dan burke: how we sort of funnel in the sequencing of the big lists, first, though, before we begin developing the specifics of what goes into an annual work, plan.

H

Cob, dan burke:, we staff reviews and considers, and were ever mindful of the high level guidance that we get from the open space purposes in our charter,. The boulder valley, comprehensive plan.

H

Cob, dan burke: and guidance, of course, from are our recently approved master plan, with a particular focus on tier one strategies over the next couple of years..

H

Cob, dan burke:, so in addition to this high level, guidance annual work plan, items.

H

Cob, dan burke: and your work plans are identified and prioritize based on the need and benefit to implement actions and recommendations that were called for and already completed and approve. Plans.

H

Cob, dan burke:, one might think of trail study areas, the grassland plan, the forest ecosystem management plan, more recently,. We have the preferred alternative for managing.

H

Cob, dan burke: prairie dogs and soil, health and you're getting agricultural lands and, of course we have site plans, you can think of one of them lake and the gun barrel hill complex recently. So there's a number of actions that are call for and those plans that feed into our annual work. Planning.

H

Cob, dan burke: and your work plans also include ongoing projects and maintenance, and these are actions we tend to take on annually as as part of our core work.

H

Cob, dan burke: and these type of annual sort of ongoing actions include weed management. Our agricultural leasing program, monitoring efforts, trail trailhead and sign maintenance.

H

Cob, dan burke:, you can think of facility and fleet maintenance. All those things over terms of our core annual work.

H

Cob, dan burke: also included an annual work plans are ongoing community services that we provide think of ranger patrol and projects,. Think of educational programming,, such as a voice, insight classes, for example.

H

Cob, dan burke:, we consider, and,, if appropriate, we distribute and give out permits and licenses and there's a host of other community service type of activities that we build into our work plans. Every year.

H

Cob, dan burke: annual work plans also account for the capacity needed to provide the department with operational administrative support.

H

Cob, dan burke:, you can think of the support services we get from our real estate, services, staff or information and technology staff. Folks are those staff members that are working in our financial and personnel services.

H

Cob, dan burke:, all those have discrete projects and ongoing projects that are built into our work. Plans.

H

Cob, dan burke:, another component is city wide and regional projects and initiatives that our staff needs to be involved. In.

H

Cob, dan burke: and that are reflected in our annual work plans, current examples that come to mind or projects such as the south, boulder creek flood mitigation, work.

H

Cob, dan burke:, the city, white equity initiative, tribal relations, fire mitigation planning and implementation drop preparedness, planning, execution.

H

Cob, dan burke: regional trails issues, even issues around homelessness and encampments, partnering on youth programming and education, volunteerism.

H

Cob, dan burke: really,, the length of the list goes on in terms of we, of course have our own component of that,, but in the context of citywide and even regional lifts and efforts.

H

Cob, dan burke: and finally,, the annual work plan also must account for emergent or unplanned work that always unexpectedly, yet not surprisingly, comes our way. Each and every year and.

H

Cob, dan burke:, of course it's really easy to think about the two big ones of emergent: unexpected work that came about,, which is responding to the coven crisis and forest fires.

H

Cob, dan burke: and undoubtedly less something's off that go into our work plan,. But I wanted to begin tonight's conversation and presentation by summarizing all these aspects and components.

H

Cob, dan burke: that comprise the annual work plan, because with so much breadth and diversity of our projects and services.

H

Cob, dan burke:, it is challenging yet so important that we be balanced and network ever mindful of our organizational capacity so that we are able to deliver our services and actions at a very high level..

H

Cob, dan burke: and, in a manner that does not burn out our staff that doesn't jeopardize our financial sustainability.

H

Cob, dan burke:, or even overburden the board council and the community,, especially when it comes to large engagement, projects.

H

Cob, dan burke:. So this is the overall context in which we approached the work of identifying. What big planning lists would be the most helpful to staff and moving the master plan implementation forward in the coming years..

H

Cob, dan burke: and sequencing out over the next 10 years, the big priority planning lists or simply voice and pete plans to embark. On.

H

Cob, dan burke:- and this is also the overall context in which we are now identifying and sequencing, now other significant planning efforts that really might not quite rise to the level of definition to be considered. A big lift.

H

Cob, dan burke:, but are nonetheless demanding of organizational capacity, and we will bring more information back later. This year.

H

Cob, dan burke: on our approach to these other aspects, as well as our latest thinking on the best approach for how we do plans for the department and moving forward,, so that we can continue to improve to make sure they're more efficient and more effective..

H

Cob, dan burke:, but as far as tonight, we're going to focus on the big lifts and with that I'm going to turn things over,, I believe, first, to mark davidson and then we'll turn things over to darren wagner,. So I think we can go to the next slide and bring on mark.

Q

Cob mark davison: thank you, dan and thanks for the context setting tonight,. Yes, it's mark davidson community connections in partnerships, manager.

Q

Cob mark davison: and I'm just going to do a very brief introduction tonight. I'll talk a little bit about the agenda in the moment.

Q

Cob mark davison: and then I'll be passing it over to darren wagner planning, design supervisor to lead you through the main content that we're going to talk about tonight.

Q

Cob mark davison:, I think, just to set us up a few remember going back to the master plan. The board members who participated in that.

Q

Cob mark davison:. We did as part of the effort to do the master plan, talk about the planning framework and the approach and we said, would be coming back to the board with details on that.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and this tonight is the beginning of that conversation. I'll chat about the strategy that dan touched on fs 10, updating the planning framework.

Q

Cob mark davison:, just in terms of describe something the thinking behind it and how we focused on it in terms of what led to the big lifts.

Q

Cob mark davison: darren, a self will dive into the water. Was big list? Might look like the organization organizational capacity required to achieve them.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and then we just want to what we want. One thing we wanted to be clear on, like I mentioned earlier,, this is the beginning of the conversation, so at future, spt meetings will be able to talk about.

Q

Cob mark davison:, more detailed descriptions of what the planning framework will look like,, especially in terms of like medium, a smaller scale, lifts.

Q

Cob mark davison: and then also start talking about the scoping, for what would be the first big lift, and that would be later in the year.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and this will probably roll through the early 2022 in terms of finalizing. What this ultimate approach will look like for the next 10 years.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and with that darren, can you move to the next slide? Please thanks you'll see this is like a mirror image of the slide.

Q

Cob mark davison: that showed earlier dan was providing that context and stems of work planning to the operations for programs and projects.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and we know that in building out a complete work plan,, we also need to think about what the planning framework for the department might look. Like.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and how do we get the right balance of planning efforts compared to things that we're implementing be based upon current policy, ongoing programs.

Q

Cob mark davison: and, to that extent of the strategy update planning framework, which is called fs 10. If you want to check it in the master plan.

Q

Cob mark davison: it. The important thing about the strategy really gets to the core of saying, refine, rsvp planning methods and products in order to better inform land management and prioritize the efficient use of funding over the next 10 years..

Q

Cob mark davison: so,, as we sort of pointed out many of the current mp strategies, master plan, strategies.

Q

Cob mark davison: have implementation actions that are already covered by the ongoing operations or existing plans policy guidance, the pc continues. This call allows us to continue doing the six year annual work, planning.

Q

Cob mark davison:, but it's also true that some of the strategy and the master plan do need updating or new policy guidance.

Q

Cob mark davison: for example, there's planning efforts that require.

Q

Cob mark davison:, more guidance in terms of policy around areas where it's pretty new arena for us to start thinking about that guidance and that could be efforts, such as equity planning or climate crisis. Initiatives.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and we also have potential for some new plans coming down the pipe thinking about things such as water, scenic and cultural resource. Plans.

Q

Cob mark davison:, in addition to that,, we also have some excellent, and I know you know board. Members are aware of these. Obviously existing plans they've been around for a while.

Q

Cob mark davison: and the policy in there may be that some of it doesn't need updating the maybe only aspects of the policy that need updating,, such as say the forest ecosystem management plan, which is known as spam of the grass and plan.

Q

Cob mark davison: and therefore, as we started thinking about comprehensive planning approach to support strategies that needed, updated or new kind of guidance.

Q

Cob mark davison:, the goal of this planning framework is to provide a prioritized, budgeted, manageable and dan touched on this, you know,, based upon the resources we have in the department,, how we think about planning over the next 10 years.

Q

Cob mark davison: next slide, please.

Q

Cob mark davison:, so it's interesting to think about, and this is something we've done. A staff of the last few months is to consider how would we think about implementing the strategy? Updating the plan framework.

Q

Cob mark davison: in its most basic terms, the strategy, direct staff to reevaluate and update our planning approach and create a planning framework.

Q

Cob mark davison: and that's kind of the obvious part of this step,. The new framework itself would continue to fully integrate all charter purposes and.

Q

Cob mark davison: for how we think about open space decision making. The planning framework will also continue to provide management guidance for like things like natural agricultural, recreation, cultural scenic, resources,, as well as programming for areas such as education or ranger. Enforcement..

Q

Cob mark davison:, when we think about how we update and implement this framework, we've got to think about refinements to the existing plans in terms of guidance.

Q

Cob mark davison: from both abroad area and specific site, plans.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and that starts to think about the scale of the planning,, whether it's system wide it's area or it's a specific geographic location,. We touched a little bit on that earlier with the parking and the trail. That's how we balance that, frankly, across the scales and across the charter, purposes.

Q

Cob mark davison: and then there's also things to think about in terms of, as I touched on earlier, if we haven't placed major policy areas from our existing system wide plans which ones, need to be updated in terms of aspects of them, and where do we need sort of a wholesale update of the planning efforts.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and this leads us to talk about the scale and complexity, and that brings us to where we are tonight. It's our first step, and considering the largest scale efforts, we've identified.

Q

Cob mark davison: and I think, for the third time tonight, now I mentioned the term big lifts and that's what dan touched upon,, and this is what we're going to focus on the night and danna darren will lead us through that thinking.

Q

Cob mark davison: next slide. Please turn so. My final slide sort of the final summary out provide is a staff.

Q

Cob mark davison: a department,. We started to develop and think about themes that would help us think about what is a major planning,. So what is a major big lift.

Q

Cob mark davison: and, as we think about those themes, that's helped us define what is a big lift and then how we might prioritize those and that's what darren will get into the details. Of.

Q

Cob mark davison:- and you can see here the bullets there's nothing probably surprising in them, and definitely just guidance. And, like, for example, bullet one.

Q

Cob mark davison: talks about how multiple charter purposes and medical np strategies typically would make us think about something as a big lift from a planning perspective.

Q

Cob mark davison:, but three gets it. How we think about you, know: city wide standards for best practice, engagement.

Q

Cob mark davison:, when is it major engagement? A simple example is the master plan that, where we built out five engagement, windows, with the community with a board, were council to ensure that we got the right level of community input.

Q

Cob mark davison:, but five talking about the spt in the city council well tonight is an example where we're providing an update or an informer, an action, but typically a big lift goes beyond that. Doesn't it gets the things like work, study, sessions.

Q

Cob mark davison:, even a process committee, to support the effort and make sure it keeps it on track.

Q

Cob mark davison:, so that's kind of my summary and overview for the night,. Just before I pass you over to darren.

Q

Cob mark davison:. I think it is worth mentioning, and frankly, with thanks to the people who have put input into what you seeing tonight is that this effort.

Q

Cob mark davison: today covers representation from the full service areas in the departments and they all their associated with groups.

Q

Cob mark davison:, as well as input from our management team and the directors to so it's frankly, we're thanking the staff for the effort and input. That's going in so far.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and it just wanted to give the board a sense of that. This has been across the department effort with that I'll pass you over the guy.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: thank you, mark so, as we are diving a bit more into what this looks like in terms of the next 10 years and what we could anticipate those big lifts needing to be.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, one of the things that I think dan has described in the past as being sort of the first flag in the ground, is the fact that the city wide planning, expectations.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: are that we update our master plan every five years. That's a practice that other departments have been in for a number of quite honestly, decades.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:. There is a practice that involves however, every it at the mid term, making that a minor update.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, where you, for example, have just recently seen the minor update come through for the for the boulder valley, comprehensive plan,, where the scale of engagement, the scale of questions that are being asked.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: is very different from those that are asked the major planning update or the the renewal of the master plan,, and so we would take the similar approach here, so that we know now that we are in compliance. With.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: citywide guidance,, now that we have a master plan that we stay in compliance and and revisit that every five years,, knowing that that is an effort that still even at a mid term, update at a minor level, would take some effort on the part of staff of community board. And council.-.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, knowing that big lifts involve a multi year effort for each one. That leaves essentially the the room in the puzzle. Making of work planning for two other big lifts within the next decade.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: and,, the first being prior to and the second being after that mid term update in the master plan. Process.

M

Deryn wagner,, cob: and really what both dan and mark have alluded. To, is that these are areas that we know still yet have a number of unanswered questions and complex decision making and conversations to be had.

M

Deryn wagner,, cob:, and, and so in order,, and yet they are in pursuit of that master plan, vision that we defined for ourselves, working with community board and counsel.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: in terms of what we wanted to achieve by 2030, so these are these are efforts that would advance that that ball down the belt ball down the field, so to speak.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, but to under, to really understand what they, they are. Even though we set the the.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: the process in motion in the master plan, itself.

M

deryn wagner, cob:. We needed to understand from staff, a bit more,. We needed to dig deeper in order to make those first steps on updating the planning framework and and trying to address the needs that emerged in that process..

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, and so we asked staff again as mark said through across all four service. Areas.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: essentially, these major questions so of those existing plans,, whether it be fem or the grassland plan or visitor masterplan, etc.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:. What guidance is missing or needs updating? What is anything missing or are? There are there, issues that hinder your work.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, or are there updates to those plans that me further advance your work that you've been waiting for or meeting and then,, as we think separately about as mark in the studio indicated of those areas where we don't currently have a broad enough word or strategic enough policy.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: when we think about updating or excuse me, achieving the master plan vision. What what needs addressing from a planning perspective.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: and, as it relates to both of these questions,. It was then also a question to staff around. How important are these needs.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: how? How much do they align with tier one strategies, for example, that are already identified in the master plan.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: and in that process of meeting with so many staff, there were a whole lot of potential plans that were identified.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: and that range from either replacing or updating the 2005 visitor master plan.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: or addressing from a planning integrated planning standpoint,, the eastern quadrant of the system,, where we have currently have, for example, tsa, is for other parts of the system. We have not yet taken an approach like that in the east.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, as mark mentioned, opportunities to update components of the grassland plan or the fence of forest ecology management, plan.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: new efforts that aren't yet in place like addressing cultural resources, water equity, climate permits and fees connecting you to nature, all these components, were.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: embedded in the master plan itself, and there are there- is guidance within the master plan around operationalize those strategies, and yet there were still. There was still recognition that for some of those, there are these.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: integrated decision making processes that needed to happen to further advance that work.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: in going through,, then that sort of second part of the engagement with staff and trying to understand how important these planning needs. Are.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: there was a lot of consensus, as mark is indicating around there being three that really rise to the top.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: arguably,. That second bullet is talking about that mid term update to the master plan, and we know we have to do that.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, but there were also conversations around that being a real opportunity, as we re envision. The planning framework to make that a strip the of strategic value to both staff and the community.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, the the other two that rose to the top, are the first being some sort of recreation plan and again that would replace the 2005 visitor master plan,. There is no name for what that would be. That's something that we need to work through,, but the concept, there is.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: really,, responding to our our sg one in the master plan, address increasing visitation and we are.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, a staff felt very comfortable moving forward with this approach. Because, again, it,. It does respond to the to the priorities. We really heard from community boarding council the master plan itself and then also addressing the integrated planning needs in the east area.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, so we know, though,. That leaves these sort of other. These other planning needs out there and knowing that we are operating in the context that dan described,, where we have.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: a very robust work plan,, as is, and therefore limited capacity and engaging those same staff. In.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: big planning efforts,, so we really need to find efficiencies and and, quite honestly,, not just for staff sake,, but also the community sake.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: there was an analysis prior the master plan of how often we had been asking the community to engage in our planning processes, and it was more or less non stop for about 20 or 25 years. So.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: trying to be cognizant of that as well,, and so we would be looking as we continue to work on updating our planning framework, which is.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: again mark said we'll be bringing more back to the board on this,, but as we continue, those conversations.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: we're going to be looking to see how we can address those other needs,. Those are medium lifts, as we might call them through,, whether that be a future update to the master plan at you,, the mid term or full renewal. Stage.

M

Deryn wagner,, cob: or working those into the multi year work planning approach that dan described so as we figure out the big pieces,, the big lifts that allows us then to figure out whether smaller pieces can fit and how they relate and support. Each other.

M

Deryn wagner,, cob: and so, in laying out a work plan as it relates to major planning and design efforts of the next decade, again,. We know that that mid term update needs to happen about mid decade.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:. That is an opportunity to consider the ways that we might engage include policy updates to those existing plans. As mark said,, we definitely heard from staff that.

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Deryn wagner, cob: there are, there is not consensus around eating to overhaul, for example, the grassland plan,, whereas most of it is actually very operational. Very functional,. There are just.

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Deryn wagner, cob: strategic components that may need addressing similarly with the forest plan,, and so we would look at ways of addressing those planning needs that there were also called for the master plan by rolling those into this midterm. Update.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, so that means that, in the first part of the decade, responding to the tier one strategy of adjusting increasing visitation, that.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:. We would start work on the recreation management plan, again, that being a working title, that's something that we need to work. On.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, and what that would do is it would allow, is dn laid out us to continue working on implementation of our existing plans,, whether that be finishing up and implementation in the west usa.

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Deryn wagner, cob: components of the north tsa, focusing on a number of those implementation projects and programs,, while also starting the planning process that will kind of keep us ahead of the game,, as it relates to system wide guidance regarding visitor use, management or recreation..

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Deryn wagner, cob:. What that would involve, as we start thinking about scoping. That is that we would honestly spend, as we did in the master plan, process, the next 18 months or so starting to scope that process, making sure that we establish a clear enough.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, stepwise process that the staff and community can respond to and understand, as well as pulling together a set of data and analysis that would support the engagement.

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Deryn wagner, cob:. That would then follow that's an alignment with city wide guidance regarding engagement,, which is to say that we want to start out our planning processes with that foundation of information.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, and so we would produce some kind of inventory report as it relates to recreation and the engagement with.

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Deryn wagner, cob: and the ways that that interfaces with other charter purposes, as the board was discussing earlier in relation to to anna's work.

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Deryn wagner, cob: and then also does give us the opportunity to pull in and his work,, as well as other human dimensions, data and and other data needs and do them justice in terms of putting together and and framing the conversation. We know that needs to be had in an appropriate way.

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Deryn wagner, cob:. We would then anticipate starting engagement with the public in 20 early 2023, because it will take us through next year to put together all that analysis and scoping.

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Deryn wagner, cob:. We then anticipate moving into the east area plan towards the latter half of the decade and what that also does, is it still respects.

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Deryn wagner, cob: those implementation projects and programs that have been called for in our other planning processes that we've mentioned a couple times, tonight.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, so that we can then sort of catch up and and yet again stay ahead of the game in terms of what's needed, then in each area plan and anticipate implementation for that happening.

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Deryn wagner, cob: and starting to happen in the following decade.

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Deryn wagner, cob: so then, again, when we think about how we're going to address those of their planning needs,, whether we call the medium lifts or something else,, we will, as we continue working through updating our planning framework,. We need to refine what.

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Deryn wagner, cob: what those really are and what those approaches, need to be. What those what we might call our planning services are planning products that we provide.

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Deryn wagner, cob: and then try and imagine the way,. Then the smaller pieces can fit into the puzzle of the next 10 years. Work planning, wise.

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Deryn wagner, cob: there are, for example, opportunities as it relates to site plans,, where we made time those site planning efforts to coincide with these larger, big, big lifts,, so that we can be having conversations, not just at the site, specific scale,, but also at the larger area. Scale on where that's appropriate.

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Deryn wagner, cob: so, as it relates to this visitor use management planning component, that we would move into in the next.

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Deryn wagner, cob: few years,: this is a diagram that has pulled for the master plan,, so this is a framework that was adapted from the.

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Deryn wagner, cob: interagency visitor use management council,, which is a consortium of multiple federal land management agencies that have agreed on a standard approach. To.

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Deryn wagner, cob: visit us management planning, and that is to say that we, before beginning the actual planning process, we have committed to coming to the board with the scope for that planning process. Much like we did for the master plan.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, and so that would absolutely be our first step that we would begin this next process with, as well.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, we know, however, that we are in this is a cycle,. This is an adaptive management cycle. It's it should be,. You know very familiar to all of us in the sense that there are things currently going on in relation to.

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Deryn wagner, cob: implementing our existing visit us management guidance and working with our partners so, for example,, as we think about implementing our existing guidance.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, we are in constant coordination and will consider in will continue doing so.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, with our partners at boulder county jefferson, county up and down the front range, as well as cpw and others to to really try and coordinate it in a collaborative way. The ways that we can address.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, increasing use and or changes and visitation patterns that affect either experience or resource condition.

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Deryn, wagner,, cob: and, and, and you know it's worth just reminding ourselves that also we're in the monitoring face and and what anna presented earlier tonight, as well as other data that you've seen in.

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Deryn wagner, cob: previous months is really also in support of what will become our our next sort of round of updating that visitor use management, guidance.

M

Deryn wagner, cob: just again a little bit more detail to to, as it relates to our first big lift. If we think about the recreation topics that are identified in the master plan,, this is a summation of.

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Deryn wagner, cob: of those topics pulled from multiple strategies and focus areas.

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Deryn wagner,, cob: and so,. If we anticipate that the scope could include a number,, if not all, of these topics, which means that, yes,, we will be increasing, addressing increasing visitation.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, but also the ways as we were talking about earlier, that I'm designated trails plays into that conversation. The ways that multimodal access dog management range of experiences,, all these things connecting youth to nature.

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Deryn wagner, cob: play into this conversation of visitor use, visit us and experience,, and you can see here it's more demonstration of the complexity of the conversation, and why.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, you know,, I think, dan, was inspired to set that context in terms of what the organizational capacity.

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Deryn wagner, cob: on what it takes to really develop these conversations,. The number of work groups that we would need to engage in order to work through this process and the number of community interest groups or community stakeholders that would be interested in participating in the process.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, so we are trying to take a stepwise approach to this as you've seen in previous months that you know our work plan and our budget for 2021 is largely in place and what we do have.

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Deryn wagner, cob: work planned out is that we would continue updating this planning framework as we've been talking about tonight, and that we would return later this year with an updated approach to that.

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Deryn wagner, cob: that we would start scoping the process for the the recreation plan or or or what that what that will eventually be called.

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Deryn wagner, cob: and that similarly, we would return to the board with that draft scope before embarking on that planning process. We'd move,, as I mentioned earlier in into the development of that recreation inventory report and start public engagement for that. First, big, lift in early 2023.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, so both of my presentation is largely over and we thought that it might be helpful to think about these two questions and particulars you kind of think about what questions or feedback, you may have.

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Deryn wagner, cob: we'd like to know if you have any feedback on that sequence, we've laid out that we are moving forward with and whether you feel that approach is really moving moving. The dial moving us towards that master plan, vision for 2013 that we define for ourselves.

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Curt brown,, osbt: and darren can you.

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curt brown, osbt:. Send copies of this presentation to the board, to I think it'd be help us to organize our thinking as we, as we move ahead,. But do you want to entertain questions at this point.

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Deryn wagner, cob: absolutely happy to., curt, brown, osbt: okay, well,, while I'm waiting for the image of all the members to come up,. Let me just ask a question that you know, maybe a little bit of side but.

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Curt brown, osbt:, maybe you could talk for just a minute from 30,000 feet about how our new properties fit into because you've got more than enough to do, obviously,. And so maybe you could just say a little bit about how you see those things coming into the overall planning process.

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Deryn wagner, cob: dan, I madden you may want to.

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Cob, dan burke: well,- I I can begin and say: there's exceptions to every rule.

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Cob, dan burke:, so typically for something, let's say with gun barrel hill complex, or perhaps the upcoming four chambers, poor farm planning, process,, one of which could have been to fold that in into something like the stereo plan and do it in conjunction with a larger context. In mind..

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Cob, dan burke:, both of those things when we analyze them, had very specific and compelling reasons why we wanted to pull those out and do them on a site, specific level so points to darren's framework in that even.

H

Cob, dan burke: within a framework was, we may want to have those options of doing something more site specific in terms of areas in an area context where others, because of its.

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Cob, dan burke: a whole bunch of connectivity issues or other things are other reasons,. We may want to do some of those new planning initiatives in context with the larger area plan.

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Cob, dan burke:. I think that the planning framework gives us the option to sort of.

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Cob, dan burke: select those things,, but in terms of what you're going to see what you saw last year, and what you'll you'll get a report on. I believe in the coming months or so.

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Cob, dan burke: about the poor farm for chambers property, is that those ones we've selected to do, out of context from the area plan and put it in into its site specific plan.

H

Cob, dan burke:, so I believe north tsa kurt I took 10 recently approved proper properties and and did the planning sort of went in the context of that area. Plan.

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Cob, dan burke: and I met get to the east there'll be a number of new properties that would be folded into that,, but there will be exceptions, and of course I just named a couple of them right off the bat.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay, thank you,. Other questions raise your hand and I will.

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Curt brown, osbt: who's up first.

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Curt brown, osbt: can't believe, there's no question dave and you're muted.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah. I didn't want to contribute to the disbelief that we wouldn't have any questions. So.

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Curt brown, osbt: thank you.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: darren thanks for that and dan and mark,. I think that was very helpful and kind of giving us the the overall context of what we're looking at in the next 10 years..

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, I don't have a question per se,, but I do have a comment and,, and that is that I would urge that, in the development of the strategies, for you know the the planning effort in the next few years and I'm thinking probably within the next three to five years..

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Dave kuntz, osbt: that the department consider.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: the institutional memory that still exists in the staff.

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Dave kuntz,, osbt: and dave kuntz, osbt:. I guess the the primary examples for me are that there are several staff that were instrumental. In fact, we're responsible for some of the first clans early plans.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: that are still there,, but they probably won't be there for long, and it strikes me that would be an excellent strategy for the department to make sure that their.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: institutional memory, as far as building that planning foundation for future management actions taken advantage of and.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, I'm I'm thinking,, particularly in the resource plans, but also you know the tsa, the trail study area planning as well, and so,, specifically that I think the the policy update notion, for the rest time plan and the forest ecosystem plan is a good one,. I think.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, it just reflects the the excellent planning effort that went into it initially such that there doesn't have to necessarily be major revisions,, but you know kind of.,.

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Dave kuntz,, osbt:, modest, weeks,, perhaps and and some of the resource issues, I think, particularly the forest issue. As far as the forest, ecology and wildfire.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: hazard and potential.

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dave, kuntz, osbt:, you know kind of gives us,, then the emphasis that we ought to pay attention to some of those things.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: that maybe don't rise to the the big lift, but are particularly important, both for management wise,, as well as for the community,. So this is just urging that don't overlook,, you know the institutional memory,, because it won't be there forever, and it will certainly, I think, benefit.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, going forward on on several of these fronts. Thanks.

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Cob mark davison: thanks. Thank you dave dave,. Can I just say I was catching up with mark cashman today,. You know to catch up with you every other week,, and he mentioned that you may or may not want to save, replace the visit. A master plan because dave happy.

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Cob mark davison:. There is the acknowledgement machines.

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Deryn wagner, cob:. I was also going to say thanks to it, because it kind of builds dave on what you and kurt were saying is that we also as part of updating your planning framework of acknowledge that we don't currently have a formalized process for commending our plans.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, it's something that, for example,, know: curtis. You nodding your head. Perhaps at the federal level, you've been through a similar process where it's a formal addendum.

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Deryn wagner, cob: that is adapted that replaces only certain sections of a particular plan and we'd like to explore the ways that we can do that and be more over about that,. But here it wasn't be great.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I think that's I'll just say a quick thing and then get to you. How.

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Curt brown, osbt:. I think it makes a lot of sense to have the visitor plan be high priority. I do worry a little bit how we're going to do that without it becoming a master plan process, just because the community will be so interested in it and how can you.

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Curt brown, osbt: carry forward this the types of decisions and priorities that were created in the master plan so that that doesn't all get revisited.

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Curt brown, osbt: because I think there'll be a fair bit of pressure to try to do that,. So I don't know the answer to this deer and I just recognize the challenge.

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Cob mark davison: couldn't just a quick response, would be. Is there and pointed to, if you remember,, we did the scoping for the master plan and that darren pointed out that wasn't lengthy process,, but what it did was it set the master plan up for success in it and.

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Cob mark davison:, we bring the scope to the board and the community so kind of agreement at the beginning,. But what process we using? It's not like halfway into the process, someone write.

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Cob mark davison: down this road we'd be able to go back and say here's what we agreed to look at in this effort and yeah. It will require one a copy find that it's got to be focused on topics or issues that need addressing.

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Curt brown,, osbt:, yeah and hopefully carry forward what sideboards we can from the master plan so that we don't revisit those again,. I think this will be challenging.

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Curt brown, osbt: how? I think you are next.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: yeah, both darren and mark. I you actually both just hit on what I was going to comment on, and that is.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:. I love this idea of targeted openings of plans. If we really are doing great policy and governance.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:, it should be more of a process of refinement than total reinvention and I guess my one suggestion would be as far as staff communication to the board.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: to not be hesitant to put forward to say, hey we'd like to do a targeted look at this plan, and that would allow us to gain a serious amount of scope to work on these other things that you may think are important and be very overt about the motivation for why.

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Curt brown, osbt: to do targeted, update., hal, hallstein, osbt: and then hold a brief pre meeting to say,. Are we all comfortable with targeting it in this way to prevent that creep that we know where things just get very to be generalized.

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Hal hallstein,, osbt: and anyway,. I just I just react when you guys are very explicit about your desires and and why they're beneficial? It really helps us run with you on those you know.

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Curt brown, osbt: what their thoughts for yeah, carolina and you're muted.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so I'm going to try and be as as clear as I can, with this and what I'm about to say, may or may not be very popular..

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Caroline miller, osbt:, but I I'm hoping that, as we move forward as we've all had to do in life that we stop and take a really big pause. As kobe 19 mesquita do.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so listening to everyone talk,, I hear us saying that we don't have really a formal process for amending the plan,. We can focus on topics or issues that need addressing and then, as how just said, you know, refinement versus re envision.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so I think that incorporation.

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Caroline miller, osbt: of what we need., caroline miller, osbt: for understanding for climate change and how that is going to affect the health of our population is just something that,. As we move forward talking about a 10 year plan,, I think, really should be.

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Caroline miller, osbt: the top subject and then let that trickle, down.

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Caroline miller, osbt: into into what it may be,, whether we do that as kind of it and a broad umbrella, or we incorporate it,, which I think would probably be more beneficial into each of our four service. Areas.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, and I saw that there was you- know the you guys had climate crisis initiatives in some of the planning.

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Caroline miller, osbt:. I just think that we really need to think about what we're doing when we're we're starting these kind of long term plans and how.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, the data that that we have from science and how that relates to policy, examples that we all know, changing, precipitation, patterns.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, rising air, water temperatures, waterborne illnesses, water insecurity, carbon sequestration, healthy soils, zoonotic disease. I just think that.

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Caroline miller, osbt: kind of like a revision of who we are and what we're doing here with open space,. I think that it used to be.

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Caroline miller, osbt: that we could really separate kind of land and people and we're all really learning that.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, we cannot do that anymore, and our children and our grandchildren are really going to be affected by those decisions that we make today,, and especially those of us that are fortunate enough to be able..

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Caroline miller, osbt: to make 10 year plans.

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caroline miller, osbt:. I just think maybe if we all view it as you know,, every staff member.

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Caroline miller, osbt: within open space and us on the board, you know,, we really are public health practitioners and so many ways, with land, soil and water. So as opposed to all of us viewing our jobs as, as the title that we're given.

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Caroline miller, osbt: right now within open space, just that we all really have a responsibility to make these new plans and adjustments and, however,. We want to do it to really protect the public and protect the people and protect everything you know moving forward, between.

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Caroline miller, osbt: kobe and the fire is that we had an unknowing drought and issues with water. It's just.

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Caroline miller, osbt:: I think that that the climate change initiatives should not be part of the bullet points,. I think it should just be at the top of every bullet point and just.

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Caroline miller, osbt: have have our facts from the data that's put out there for us. And,, like I said, incorporate that into every policy and change that we're thinking about making so.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, you will hear me say that a lot moving forward, as we continue to talk about this topic. So just you know everyone's like a little food for thought on that tonight, and just you know, moving forward will continue to discuss it,. So thank you.

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Curt brown, osbt: thank you,, caroline., curt, brown, osbt: other thoughts.

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Curt brown, osbt: kara.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah, I am.

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karen hollweg, osbt:. I have to say I'm heartened by the idea of targeted.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: efforts and agenda and.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: refining things that we have. I my first reaction to this item in the packet was: oh, my god we're starting more 10 years planning to plan to plan processes and, as darren said in her remarks at the very beginning.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: we've been planning for decades.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and engaging hundreds and thousands of community members and again and again and again, and, and I think, there's a real desire.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, as expressed by mark mcintyre in a newspaper article in the last week or so,, to be able to say.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: from the perspective of tab. This was not oh as.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I'm, you know, we said we do this, this year, and we did it, and here are the results, and I think, there's a real hungering on the part of of residents of this town.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: to be able to do more of that, rather than to do more, planning.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and to actually see the results of our efforts.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and,, and so I my cringing when I.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: started reading. This part of the agenda was: oh, my god. We just finished the master plan and now we're going to spend another two to 10 years planning for other plans, and I really hope we can get away. From.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: save me from that perspective.

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Deryn wagner, cob: yeah.

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Deryn wagner, cob:. Oh sorry, mark,! Do you want to respond. cob mark davison: oh,? Please go ahead. First.

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Deryn wagner, cob:, it's a sentiment shared by many, and we appreciate the candor and you know,. We really do. I think that we are also, as we talked about updating your planning framework trying to re envision, how we do,, how we do planning how we do design in such that is.

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Deryn wagner,, cob: or operationalize, and and can produce value in different ways other than you know. We certainly will continue to have this role and trying to facilitate these broader policy conversations, as we.

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Deryn wagner, cob: know are critical, but work at at all scales of land management are critical, and that's why it really, I think dan you just be your introduction- was perfect in terms of really wanting to prioritize the.

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Deryn wagner, cob: things that we aren't doing on the ground and and and fitting in the planning means around those.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, I karen, I share your sentiments.

H

Cob, dan burke:- I here I've heard it,. You know pretty loud and clear at the staff level, that.

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Cob, dan burke: hundreds, if not thousands, of already approved actions. You know still waiting to be implemented, that sort of thing um,. How do we prioritize that and really it's it's an unofficial term,, but I was like 2020 2021 21 2022 2023. Can we just call it the era of implementation and.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: get away from planning. cob, dan burke: yes, as we can so it's it's. I'm really heartened to hear that there seems to be.

H

Cob, dan burke: consensus building among the trust at a very targeted approach. If we feel policy changes as needed is really the preferable approach. We weren't sure how this was going to land with you in that regard. So.

H

Cob, dan burke:, it's really heartening to me,, and I think it's going to be to the staff to know that we have that flexibility.

H

Cob, dan burke: to go that route., cob, dan burke: and basically.

H

cob, dan burke:. As this was evolving,, it was like.

H

Cob, dan burke:, even one big planning and lift on either side of the master plan. Time horizon is a big ask and and,, and so I fully share your sentiment and.

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Cob, dan burke: and as we go and we continue to refine this,, I think we can take tonight's conversation away and and and and and continue to refine and bring something back them up,. So I think what we're hearing tonight to.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, like damn like date, suggested um I think, if you went to chris of until in and megan and said in the film or in the grasslands, man man.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, what are the,, what are the one or two or three things that we need to take a look at and and do targeted revisions of I mean I think in two seconds. Those folks could identify those things, and if those kinds of targeted needs were brought back to the board.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I just think we feel much better about where we were going rather than framing this as another major planning effort. Now that we've recovered from the master plan. Let's do another major planning, effort.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah well, one way to look at it karen and that's the exact. Those are the exact conversations that we had over the last eight months. It's exactly what you said,. We went to the subject matter, experts.

H

Cob, dan burke: and had them give us their honest assessment of the plan. Are you being hampered right now,? Can you move forward with what you need to be.

H

Cob, dan burke:, under existing guidance and what we heard, for the most part of those 15 ideas out there that, except for two.

H

Cob, dan burke: there was a pretty much consensus that we've got what we need,, except for some minor alterations,, and so one of the one way to look about this is there's 15 potential planning needs out there we're coming forward with maybe sequencing of two of them.

H

Cob, dan burke:, we were a little hesitant to think boy,. What, if they, what if they are wondering when the big lift is for grasslands and and water and all these other ones. So we're really happy that we're hearing what we're hearing because, overall,, that was the staff sentiment.

H

Cob, dan burke:, except for two exceptions,, in which we feel like there's a bigger left, there.

H

Cob, dan burke:, but but we're happy to continue that even that conversation, based on what we're hearing tonight.

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Cob mark davison: that advantages that.

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Cob mark davison: add to that a little bit.

Q

cob mark davison: was interesting because the was like to get to what dan said was. Actually you know. Our department internally is quite happy to debate in a very robust way. You know what we should be doing. We've got a very transparent discussion in the healthy and the was actually consensus.

Q

Cob mark davison:, when we brought this back to the teams, after discussing it that this came through with our disagreement there wasn't.

Q

Cob mark davison: the disagreement over what we should prepare a ties.

Q

Cob mark davison: to the some of the terms that came up. Where can we make sure we do this? It's not a bubble diagram. It's fiscally constraint.

Q

Cob mark davison:, it's beyond just targeted. It gets to like solution. Based.

Q

Cob mark davison: can we have like a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer to look at this,. The reason we can do that now, frankly, is: we've got new ways.

Q

Cob mark davison:, as we just saw in an earlier presentation of collecting data, that changes from looking at sort of effect actually getting into calls.

Q

Cob mark davison:, and that's really what we're going to do here and we know,. For instance, we've got higher. Visitation, has increased exponentially over the last 1020 years.

Q

Cob mark davison: you,. We know that all systems across the front range are really having to grapple with this,, so we want to sit back and get into it using that sort of fiscally constrained approach to be.

Q

Cob mark davison: targeted, and so it comes when it comes back to the board. You'll see that it.

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Cob mark davison: is focusing in on what we need to do on the ground where we don't have existing policy or we've got issues that require. That sort of you know a lot of effort. Roll up our sleeves to get into it, come up with the actions that will solve it.

Q

Cob mark davison:, so we're excited on our end from that perspective.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:. I think that's a fantastic point. Mark,. I would point to the agricultural application document as a major success.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: of where, in a short amount of time we fixed a plan that was very well laid and that it ran into some reality that was unexpected. Right.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: and then we saw red line document and the red line document gave all the board members, the confidence to know. I'm looking at each and every change.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:, I think procedurally, sometimes where we fail, is if we redesign a document, reformat it,, it gives a board member, the feeling that they need to read each and every word with the utmost care.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:, which naturally extends a process so to whatever extent we can learn,, I think, from.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: those episodes where we do execute quickly and we all very much agree and arrive at consensus and sort of what created the psychological stability in the process to let that proceed is all great stuff to apply to these coming projects.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, any other closing thoughts before we thank mark and darren.

A

Curt brown, osbt: all right,. We look forward to the next chapter, thanks guys.

M

Deryn wagner, cob:, thanks for the feedback, everyone.

H

Cob, dan burke: thanks there, and thanks mark, thank you.

A

Curt brown, osbt: thank you, dan.

H

Cob, dan burke: all right,, just a couple of minor heads up, updates.

H

Cob, dan burke:, so our conversations are in regarding tribal relations and tribal aspects..

H

Cob, dan burke: have some specific dates on the 18th of this month,. We have a conference call with representative tribes, as you know, last year's consultation was cancelled.

H

Cob, dan burke: and there's been a lot of talk about how we make some decisions about a future consultation,. So we are going to be.

H

Cob, dan burke: on a virtual call, with tribal reps on the 18th to talk about a desire to possibly do a virtual consultation,. It might have to be scaled down a little bit versus the face to face in 20.

H

Cob, dan burke: or if they would prefer for us just to.

H

Cob, dan burke: delay until a face to face needs to be put in place, we're pretty close to coming up with.

H

Cob, dan burke: conclusions on a couple of the things starting about,, so there is some desire to bring it across the finish. Line.

H

Cob, dan burke:, but we would like to get their feel for how they would feel about doing that virtually and.

H

Cob, dan burke: we'll get some feedback from them on the 18th, and I can report back in march, about what the sentiment was and where, where we might go in terms of next steps, there's also an emerging issue and it's more of a city wide issue. But I thought I'd just update you and in terms of.

H

Cob, dan burke: tribal relations,, and that is the desire to.

H

Cob, dan burke: develop a land acknowledgement,, and so our staff, because of our history and expertise of working with tribal.

H

Cob, dan burke: governments and and working with in developing mo us with the tribes and working on tribal relations issues. We are lending support to that citywide effort to develop and landing acknowledgement and there will be.

H

Cob, dan burke: a couple of steps along the way,, culminating, probably with a update. The council.-.

H

Cob, dan burke: in september sort of timeframe and.

H

Cob, dan burke: the. cob, dan burke: human rights commission will also.

H

Cob, dan burke: be involved in, I actually be reporting to them,. They want me to come and report at their next board meeting about what tribal consultation is and and what the next step is with that and will also update them on the atlantic land acknowledgement effort, that's starting to gain some traction.

H

Cob, dan burke: secondly,- I just wanted to let you know about wildfires, obviously on the top of people's minds over the past year, and on the 18th as well. At noon. There's a wildfire fire summit.

H

Cob, dan burke: that is planned, jonah goose, congressman, is going to be part of that,. I believe,, even our our senators and the governor may actually be on that call as well, I'm not too sure of of who will be participating,. But if anybody is interested, there is a sign up. Congressman jonah goose is a.

H

Cob, dan burke: website no goose in eg, usc 2021 dot com. I believe he's got a link to a sign up for that particular event,. So I just wanted to let you make you aware of that. So.

H

Cob, dan burke: with that that's my couple of brief announcements and will be turn it back to you, kurt.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, we're to matters from the board, I'm going to propose a five minute break so everyone to be back at about 1718 minutes past the hour.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, we are in recess.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: amazing, but nice.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: were any of our people. Speaking at the.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: summit,: do you know.

H

Cob, dan burke: the wildfire, a wildfire. cob, dan burke:. hmm I don't believe so, oh.

O

John potter, cob:, no we're not we're not scheduled on any of the panels. Carolina.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, oh they're, doing it like a panel.

A

Curt brown, osbt: I see, most of us back here,. I think.

A

Curt brown, osbt: we're going to matters from the board, I know,. We have the topic of south boulder creek flood mitigation, and so you south.

A

Curt brown, osbt: timelines., curt brown, osbt: do others have topics,. I just want to note them down here,. So I know roughly how many we've got karen. You have an additional yes.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, we just have a quick question that I think goes back to the matters from the department based on packet.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I think it's a quick question. curt brown, osbt: yeah go ahead. karen hollweg, osbt:, I'm on the the.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: information about chautauqua damn.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: flags, but I'm sorry, flagstaff summit, facilities.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, um I really liked the idea of leaving.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, some of the facilities for smaller groups, non.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: reservation facilities so that they could be accessed by smaller groups more easily,. But it wasn't clear to me that there would be any parking available for them.

H

Cob, dan burke: well, there's not specific parking. That's assigned to a specific specific facility.

B

Cob, dan burke: right so.

C

Cob, dan burke:, some of the changes.

H

Cob, dan burke:, so some of the changes we were making was an attempt to sort of address that a little bit of an indirect way,, as opposed to you, know, assigning assigning parking to a specific facility.

H

Cob, dan burke: yeah, so um yeah, I guess the the parking spots per se is- is a little bit of a separate issue,, but I know, give us, what are your specific question, in general, there.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: well, would would there be room for those people to park if the facilities available and there's no place for them to put a vehicle then.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's kind of an empty.

B

karen hollweg, osbt:, it's kind of a non access.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: facility.

H

Cob, dan burke: yeah, I'm leah, oh hi, leah.

H

Cob, dan burke:, my you worked with a team and sort of putting these recommended changes together and I'm sure that the parking alignment with facility reservations that correlation was sort of.

H

Cob, dan burke: came into the thinking in terms of some of the changes were making,, but do you have any any comment or responses.

H

Cob leah case: to care super yeah and and.

J

Cob leah case:, designed to show probably do be more eloquent than me, but karen did you have a specific.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: now it's specifically about the the.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: facilities on flagstaff that are no longer by reservation, to make them more accessible to families want to use a.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: one of the smaller facilities but,, but my question is: would they have any access to parking or is it just a facility? That's available, with no parking available.

J

Cob leah case:, I might still be a little confused that the memo that we, what we were talking about, was lowering the group capacity size for the facilities that we do rent out. I don't know if we were proposing removing availability.

H

Cob, dan burke:, well, and and.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the second page, it says,, reducing the maximum reservation capacity and thereby reducing parking congestion on flagstaff summit road would create more opportunities for smaller groups. Fewer than 25 access, the non reserved shelters on a first come, first serve basis.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and, and given the limits on parking up there,, it wasn't clear to me that those.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: non reserved, smaller shelters, would have.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: an ability, parking.

H

Cob, dan burke:, I think the question might be- is there? Is there guaranteed parking that would be available for those facilities.

H

Cob leah case: and I guess right, yeah and there's not guaranteed parking, which was one of the reasons for lowering the number also um but basically like. If we.

J

Cob leah case: are lowering from 150 to 101 that helps with congestion and enforcement issues and some of the other things that were in there, but would also allow like, if a family wanted to have a gathering at one of the picnic table.

J

Cob leah case:, they would have a better chance of having access to that parking still wouldn't be guaranteed. For those, it was just another consideration for lowering the amount of people that might have one side of the time.

F

Cob leah case: can I jump right. In.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah dave. You want a colloquy on that.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: real quickly, so leon dan. I I had a question and on the next paragraph and the percentages that better there.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: you've got 73%.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: of the.

F

dave, kuntz,, osbt: reservations were of 100 or less,, and then you have 47% of reservations were made for 50 or fewer people. So is the 47 part of the 73.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, so there's 73% of 100 or less and so 47% of that 73% was 50 or less. Is that the right interpretation.

J

Cob leah case:, you know dave,, I think,, so I just made megan a co host and I want if you're, okay with that megan, I want to make sure that I'm presenting that correctly,, I believe you have it.

J

Cob leah case: right but megan. If you're on, do you mind.

J

Megan grunewald (she/her): yeah, it's just.

K

Cob leah case:, me., megan, grunewald, (she/her): yeah, no worries there is some overlap there. So that was the way I drew. Those numbers were to show that reducing to 100 wouldn't wouldn't.

K

Megan grunewald (she/her): wouldn't really be like a huge effect, a huge number of the reservations that in the past and then also that 50 or fewer I'm kind of to show that you know the majority. Almost half of all reservations were already.

K

Megan grunewald (she/her): into your viewer.

K

Megan grunewald (she/her): does that answer the question.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: yes.

K

Megan grunewald (she/her):, there's overlapping, those., cob, dan burke:, two statistic yeah, so the 47% subset is part of the 70.

H

Dave kuntz, osbt: right. That's what I wanted no.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, yes, thanks.

A

Curt brown, osbt: karen did that address your questions.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah working as a problem.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, um.

A

curt, brown, osbt:. Are there members that want to raise other issues under matters besides south boulder creek and see yourself.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I'm not seeing any hands being raised, and if you have something you want to bring up later, that's fine,, so it just looks like our principal topic here is supposed to create flood mitigation and see you south, and so with that I will turn to karen. If you want to kick off.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt:, this dance, the whole board know what happened at council with you, kurt.

H

Cob, dan burke:, we are.

A

Curt brown, osbt: like.

H

Cob, dan burke:, I gave me a data.

H

cob, dan burke: update yeah yeah.

A

Well. curt brown, osbt:, most of the presentation, was by utilities by.

A

Curt brown, osbt: joe tucci., curt, brown,, osbt: and brandon.

A

curt brown, osbt:, just describing the some of the key findings of the analysis of the upstream option that we were briefed on, and then I gave the just a very few remarks, highlighting what I thought the particular is of interest were for.

A

Curt brown, osbt: the board.

A

curt brown, osbt:, and there wasn't a lot of additional discussion. About.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, where council is going next, accept the possibility of.

A

Curt brown, osbt: try and reach some decisions in may or june,, but karen did you remember, more than that.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: well,, you gave an elephant little summary of what the board had done and what the.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: subcommittee had done an upstream option and the board's decision on that.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yes,. It certainly was eloquent.

H

Cob, dan burke: and I was very appreciative of having board wrap there,. I might add.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, oh well,, thank you, dan.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so carrie do you want to lead out with you know, to introduce the topic.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt: so I'm,, given that the upstream option is now off the table and we're proceeding with variant one 100 year, design.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: um.

B

karen hollweg, osbt: and based on all the comments that I've heard about flood mitigation from the people who are involved in the.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: public participation, events around annexation and comments from public and council about where we, where we're headed next with see you south.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I started worrying about the public and council needing to know what still needs to happen with flood mitigation that just because the upstream option is off the table.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that doesn't mean there's a clear or simple path to what happens next with flood mitigation, and I feel like because some decisions are coming right up in the next few months about annexation that that there needs to be a broader understanding of what..

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: still needs to happen. To.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: deal with the flood mitigation issues around south boulder creek and especially around the open space and mountain parks, state natural area lands,, and so I spent some time in january. I'm going back in the records and looking at the.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: board packets in minutes, from.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: mark march and july 2013 when si dot expanded highway, 36.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: at that point, osb t disposed of some land to facilitate that highway. 36 expansion and I wanted to review for myself what happened.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: at that time, and you know what it involved and what went on,, and so I spent quite a bit of time, reading documents and reviewing them and all and.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, just to give you an overview of of what I learned. I I forwarded to leah a word doc that I'm hoping she can put up on a shared screen.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, which is a list of.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: a dozen or so items thanks um that that are.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: that were included at that time, in.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: prior to the board's decision to dispose of a very small amount of land for that.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: expansion of highway 36 and you can see,, as you read down the list that includes everything from.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: si dot,, which was the the agency to whom the disposal was made,, having already budgeted and committed funds for the project and for the mitigation.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: to having all the permits in hand from all the agencies and approvals that were needed.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: to having done and he is and having assess the mitigation options and having done a programmatic, biological opinion and a site, specific biological opinion, and you can see, on down the list. It.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's a really.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: detailed, complex set of things that need to be done.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and, and I don't think, there's understanding either among members of the public or the council that there's still a lot of work. That needs to be done on flood mitigation and.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and and, quite frankly,, a lot of unknowns.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: that still need to be worked on, because I keep hearing reference to well and will have the flood mitigation a long time before see. You will ever want to build on this site and statements like that,, and so one of my concerns is where we go next and and how its communicated to.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: to make sure that the public and council have some idea of.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: all the details that need attending to before we're ready to do any next step,. Even though we've dispensed with the upstream option.

A

Curt brown, osbt: karen. You also want to tie in see yourself annexation and your.

A

Curt brown, osbt: concerns are uncertainties there too.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: well, there I don't want to get into annexation a lot tonight,, but I have some personal concerns about that,, just because I live in south boulder.

B

Curt brown, osbt:, but I guess, I was,. I was referring to open space concerns related to potential annexation, decisions.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: sure, there's there's you know what happens with the cu south property and if, if we hope to have some of that, acreage.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, then I'm.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's not going to be available for other parts of the annexation discussion agreement negotiation, whatever you want to call that they're they're interacting elements to both the flood mitigation part and the annexation part, and I'm I'm really concerned that that.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the public, and the council doesn't lose sight of that.

A

Curt brown,, osbt:, ok, questions for karen or other comments, here,, and maybe we can go back to the matrix view,. Thank you very much,. I see dave's hand up. Do you want to start.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah. I have a question,, you know at the process subcommittee, meeting.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: the recent one,, the latest one,, but I can remember with his last week or the week before.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: you know,. There was some conversation about developing this timeline or or schedule,, which I think you know was preliminarily presented at the council. Meeting.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: in the concern I have is that it struck me that that timeline does not include the issues that karen is talking about, and I guess it would strike me that.

F

Dave kuntz,, osbt: we,. The board ought to at least weigh in on our notion of a timeline as it relates to you know the issues that we've raised in previous motions and and board discussion and actions.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, so I guess I would welcome any.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: comments or discussion from staff with in that regard, and.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, then members as well as far as you know, kind of our inclination. What we think our next steps need to be.

H

Cob, dan burke:, no data, that's a great question and I updated curtain have when we got together for our agenda. Look ahead: meetings.

H

Cob, dan burke: about what march may look like, as far as what we report back to you on and what we have a discussion on, and it looks like marches kind of the theme will be.

H

Cob, dan burke: looking ahead,, looking ahead at the sequencing of the milestones, trying to put some dates on those. What are those dates that are always in p, related issues, and what are we.

H

Cob, dan burke:, roughly planning to schedule, those in and so right now, staff utility staff and headed by joe and then phil chrysler they've, been working hard. I'm putting a detail, milestone timeline together for 2021.

H

Cob, dan burke:, one of those community touch base opportunities,, one of the board and commission touch bases when's. The next touch base with console.

H

Cob, dan burke: trying to put some subject matter to those touch bases and that's going to be daylight in for the first time to the process subcommittee a week from friday.

H

Cob, dan burke: will we'll see if they have any sort of refinements to that,, but what john and I are proposing that we do is we bring that forward for the march discussion with the board and I've also gotten.

H

Cob, dan burke: thumbs up from both joe and and fill that, if they're needed at that meeting, to facilitate a discussion on timeline and subject matter and and and when all spt.

H

Cob, dan burke: is going to be keyed up for discussion,, we can all be there,, and so that will be the theme for four weeks from now,, which is looking ahead for the rest of the year and trying to put together subject matters,, I mean I know, we're all interested in groundwater.

H

Cob, dan burke: we're going to be interested in and when 30% designs coming down and what we're going to start to see with 30% winners that scheduled for and so all those things are going to start to get daylight over the next couple of weeks. And.

H

Cob, dan burke: and that that's sort of what we're hoping we could dive into in march john- I don't know if you have anything to add to that. Does somebody who participates on the internal team kind of scoping, this out, but.

O

John potter, cob: no,, I think I think you nailed it there, dan.

O

John potter, cob:- I guess if, if there were things beyond groundwater and environmental mitigation, that the board would want to consider us looking into before the 30% design, and that would be helpful to know tonight.

O

John potter, cob:, but generally that was what we were thinking,. The two big topics were to get into before there was design that was ready. That would you know, have any value at this point,, but if there are other things that be gretchen, now.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you're muted.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and I had such good things to say, to.

A

dave, kuntz, osbt:, you that. curt brown, osbt:. Just for folks who may not be following so closely are rough estimate of when the 30% design might be completed. The earliest point that I've heard.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, maybe would be late fall of this year,. Do you guys is that roughly what you're thinking,, just in case somebody's not following this timeline, that closely.

O

John potter, cob: yeah, that's that's our general understanding kurt. It might be that.

O

John potter, cob: it does. The 30% wouldn't be completed until that following some.

O

John potter, cob:, you know, further input from say the board staff,, so it might be completed out beyond the fall. But that's when we expect to first be able to see something so.

A

Curt brown, osbt:: it's not going to show up on our doorstep in may, or something like that no.

A

Curt brown, osbt: no.

H

Curt brown, osbt: other cell,, you have your hand up,. I think.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: yes,. Thank you curt, karen first off,. I really appreciate that work that you did looking at that historical template. I think it's very relevant and helpful.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:. I personally came to this discussion this evening, from a slightly different viewpoint,, and that was referring back to this boards own more emotions.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: over time,, and particularly the one dated 711 18, I'd love to just read: half of it.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: right now, osb t believes that the disposal issues are best addressed after the number of concepts has been narrowed and the preferred concepts have been more fully designed and specified.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: in the event that one or more concepts proceeds to preliminary design. Osb t intends to work with the city staff to identify the point in the process.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, at which such concepts have sufficiently been designed and specified such that osb t can then make a fully informed decision on any disposal. Question.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:. I think the reason that this is important to me, relative to the list that you provided.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: is that I believe we owe the public fulsome discussion of the charter, and this disposal. If we choose to have that discussion at the end of the 14 checklist list that you presented earlier, which necessity, which necessitates many, many millions of dollars more of city investment in time.,.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, I think,, where we find ourselves is, at the end of a fully check list where we're having a discussion. That's not actually even real.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, it's a theatrical thing,, where the decision has already been made by time. Momentum and inertia.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, so I tend to agree with john's point here that it would be helpful for my perspective,. This evening.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, if we can come up with the few final points related to preliminary design, that we think are the absolute crucial criteria and are required to discuss the project in the context.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: of the charter and the disposal, because I don't believe all of those are necessary to have a full some discussion of that. That's putting some of our work transparently in front of the public before this project has completed itself.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and how you put your finger on the eternal dilemma,, which is when is too early and too late to have the discussions,. So I would think that's part of what we focused dan and john on, which is to.

A

Curt brown, osbt: really help us understand what we know.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and what we don't yet know in march, so that the board can address your question,, which is: are there things we need to take action or to reinforce and when's the right time to do? That, I mean, I think, that's the question. That's on my mind. To.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: and it feels to be concise. John listed a couple of the key points and and I'm just wondering, from the point of view of trustees.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, with that, will we be able to have a full some discussion of the charter,, because there are a few observations. I'd already love to make.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: about that, prior to heading into a final annexation, but before council enters this annexation discussion, I think some of that information is highly relevant and, and frankly, must hear for city council.-.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. Well, that's my one of my concerns timing, wise. How, in that that is that.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I think, if the council's going to move ahead on some decisions regarding annexation in april may or june that it would behoove us as the open space board to have some more specific.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: information on on the table and the other concern I have is frankly kurt you're, you know.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: much lamented departure from the board after the march meeting,, and so we will have a new probably.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know, somewhat neophyte board member on on this particular topic, and it just strikes me that timing wise,. We might want to look at the board getting together.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: for a study session, or you know, discussion prior to the march meeting, so that the march meeting actually has some capacity for more definitive action. Well, kurt is still here.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, and so I guess I'm a little concerned about the timing, as far as anything that the board does,, because if we wait until march.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: that will be preliminary and then we're we're in april and in in whatever, and I just think we're going to start bumping up against some other decision points by other entities..

A

Curt brown, osbt: dan do. You are john want to address the concern generally.

H

Cob, dan burke: well,, I think, that, once we all see the timeline, I think that will all have a sense of decision. Time.

H

Cob, dan burke: timelines, the next,, the next step that council will be getting an update on x, station where.

H

Cob, dan burke: late april or early may.

H

Curt brown,, osbt: and cob, dan burke: and,, and that will be a an update.

H

Cob, dan burke:, I think that the the timeline, the most aggressive timeline, if everything.

H

Cob, dan burke: gets put together as far as annexation will, as likely q3 would be aggressive,. So I mean if,, and I think that the the next check in with council is an update for april and may,. So if there's an annexation, related.

H

Cob, dan burke: subject or concern that hasn't already been conveyed through an existing motion.

H

Cob, dan burke: yeah march or april april april, would be a time to reiterate that or to add something in if it's. Regarding the flood mitigation project, that.

H

Cob, dan burke: really wouldn't be addressed through annexation. You know that 30% design is out there in q3 q4 again,. I think that there's time for us to have before before,, that is to have a great conversation, on.

H

Cob, dan burke: getting a report on what's the existing conditions for the groundwater, what is,? What is more, thoughts that boys up equal staff have on mitigation opportunities on the.

H

Cob, dan burke:, but dave if there's yeah, if there's specific, issues.

H

Cob, dan burke: on the antics in that you think hasn't already been.

H

Cob, dan burke:, raised by this board.

H

Cob, dan burke: and you want that in before council has their touch base.

H

Cob, dan burke: that that's looking like a late april, early may type of thing, but we'll we'll find out for sure at the process. Subcommittee.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: it being,, then I just think that.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, we we, the annexation in the flood mitigation, are wedded as far as the open space issues are concerned,, and so I'm not really confident that,. If we wait to 30 30%.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. You know development plan before we come when we before we come in with some of the you know, the potential mitigation issues.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, because I think the potential mitigation issues are associated with with see you south, and you know the antic in the annexation. They have to be part of that annexation, consideration, and so I.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, guess I'm just discomforted by the timing and what I consider to be the lack of clarity as far as.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: what the steps are related to the open space issues, for example,. If there's, an e is required, which I'm assuming there will be that's going. To.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know, be in a timeframe, that is, is certainly much longer than what we're anticipating initially, and you know the outcome of that,. I think, will certainly.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: relate to some of the open space issues as well,, so I'm just afraid that the annexation train is moving down a separate track or will soon be moving down a separate track from the flood mitigation.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: drain, and it just strikes me that in our mind and our collective minds as the board, we're not seeing those actions are separate. Necessarily.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: and carolyn. I've got your hand up I'll, let dan or john respond first to dave's question.

O

John potter, cob: yeah., john potter,, cob: and dan you may you may want to as well,, but I think it's I think it's a good point. If they're there is a fairly limited.

O

John potter, cob: menu on the annexation, from what the what the board might need and and if you've had a chance to go through the briefing book.

O

John potter, cob:. I would recommend that to all of the board members to read through that carefully and see, what's kind of on that table from the standpoint of.

O

John potter, cob: environmental protection or mitigation and be be up to speed on that,, and if there are things in that that are missing, that that would be super helpful to know..

O

John potter, cob: however,, the board, has already expressed an interest, for one thing in the hundred 19 acres of oh so, they've expressed an interest in the water rights and.

O

John potter, cob:, and with those with that understanding already built into that briefing book and what council is going to have before it in may or june, that.

O

John potter, cob: that that message is already there. If, if you felt that there were other things that are, are not being picked up, that would be like critical to know in in the shorter timeframe that you're talking about,. But I don't know what those things are.

A

Curt brown,, osbt:, okay I'll go to caroline.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, just to let everyone know where I am, and just to keep everything moving along,. I agree with what dave said with us coming together and having a study session,. While we still have kurt's.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: very valuable knowledge,, and I think that that would be really good for expectations moving forward and what we are all trying to collectively. Do.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, and I think that will help staff council see you, everyone be able to have more transparency and what we are all feeling together as a board.

H

Cob, dan burke:- um may I ask just in if if the momentum is to have a study session and if there's some sort of element of staff, preparation and who's in.

H

Cob, dan burke:. It would be super nice to know like what this, what the fee, rather than cus south annexation and flood mitigation like because there are specific conversations that we are building timelines out for such things as groundwater and 30% design and.

H

Cob, dan burke:, it was in the 119.

H

cob, dan burke:, so it'd be super helpful to know like what.

H

Cob, dan burke:: what would be the theme of the study sessions,? So we could support you all.

H

Cob, dan burke: in that, and is it or is it just a chance to talk more about all the issues or.

H

Cob, dan burke:. It would just be super helpful for john and I to get a sense for what you're thinking is the sort of the. If there is a focus to the conversation.

A

Curt brown, osbt: around go ahead. You're muted.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah dave. um You can correct me if you think a little bit differently about it or karen, how please feel free to jump in,, but I feel like.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: last year,, when we were discussing how to put together the disposal, I think dave, and I did some work.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: that that perhaps wasn't like the right vision for what we were doing in regards to the actual documentation and paperwork for the disposal,. But I think that a lot of issues that came up at that time.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, when we were presented with that and dave and I, you know, went off and had our own subcommittee for a time there,. I think that a lot of those.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: issues that we were trying to present to you, then, would probably still be relevant now for this study session, and if anyone feels differently, please,, please jump in.

A

Curt brown, osbt: karen did you go who's speaking,, but how.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:. I feel the study session would be important primarily as a board driven event to discuss some key and critical issues related to whether or not we do or do not have business in the annexation.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: and to think about the timeline from the point of view of osb t.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: because we have a unique ability here being the landowner. We actually can make some proactive choices related to the timeline to, and I'm uniquely willing,, sometimes to say things very directly and I'm going to do it here,. We have been asked by many people.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: in this in the city itself to divorce, our thoughts about annexation. From our look at this floodwall on our land.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: I respect and honor those thoughts. Those people who make those requests also must honor that our email boxes are flooded each and every day.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: by people who think our responsibility to the charter has all these complex connections to the process of annexation and I'll. Just make one example that I think is really pertinent.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: the fact that see you skipped a government required. He is through nepa on its property in the past,. Does that create new costs to the project to the.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: city as a whole, that would not have been there, had they complied with those environmental costs. The general theme of all the emails we receive is a feeling that see you is not.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: being a fair partner in the ecosystem cost of the project,, and so it becomes very difficult to separate these two things. Entirely.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: and I don't know how to solve that other than a trustee to trust deep conversation about where everybody thinks we should be in their understanding of their responsibility to the charter,. Whether those considerations are relevant or not. Relevant.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: and I think that's just I think, that's an important discussion. It's clearly the discussion that the public would like us to have.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, and I think we also we being the open space board or the open space and mom parks department have a template. Karen karen has already identified that as a basis.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: for our conversation at a steady session, and it strikes me that we don't need to reinvent that wheel, necessarily,, but we need to certainly put some air into it,. As far as you know, what we specifically think.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: both the issues that need to be addressed and how they need to be addressed, and the timing for that addressing.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, so I think dan to answer your question from my perspective.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know I haven't looked at the granite agreement.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: from years ago and I'm trying to remember,. I think I might have actually been there at the time. But.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. I don't know that I participated in it,, so I I don't have any real recollection of the specifics,, but I do think it's a worthy template at least do base conversation on as far as what we think the the schedule and the timing of events, from our perspective needs to be..

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah and I.

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karen hollweg, osbt:. I just want to comment on several of the statements that have been made,. I agree with you how that there's there are other elements from our.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: motions that need to be part of this consideration and background.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: documents and that.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and, and the other thing, john, that you didn't mention that.

B

Karen hollweg,, osbt:, probably should be part of the discussion, is costs.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and as how has indicated, you know.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, where, where responsibilities lie and.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, and so I think we have several documents that that could serve as.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: the basis, and I agree with whoever said that.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I guess it was how who said it would be more of a board board driven study session, going from several documents to sort of sort. A lot of these things out, well.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, as as caroline said well, kurt's, still around.,.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so I'm just trying to think through it. Is, I think, dan and john, are what what the study session might be, um I think is dan is alluded to by the 19th or shortly thereafter.

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Curt brown, osbt:, the process committee will have we hope, sort of blessed a general timeline for the coming year, and that certainly could be a basis. For.

A

Curt brown, osbt: many of the topics that we're going to discuss to try to look at the various questions we have and concerns. We have that we've expressed emotions and start hanging them on the timeline to say well.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. We think there may be a decision about this issue at this point in time, and therefore we need a report from these people, you know, a month earlier. um I I can imagine.

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Curt brown, osbt: that discussion being there with dan and john. I don't think they would need to do a lot of preparation,. I don't think we would need a lot of staff preparation, as long as we're willing to accept the answer for some things. That.

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Curt brown, osbt:, we don't know yet.

A

curt, brown, osbt:. I could also imagine,, maybe joe tatty gucci and maybe phil chrysler being at that study session. So that,. When we asked about the nexus between.

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Curt brown, osbt: see you south, you know. When will decisions to be made on the rsl he can say, well, either he's going to say I don't know or he's going to give us his thought about when it's likely to be.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so I could see that conversation happening and I I can't say it wouldn't be useful,. I don't think there would need to be a lot of prep for it.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, because these are things that people will either know the answers for or it will be unknown. That's that's my sense, but I I toss it to dan to give his thoughts.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah.

H

cob, dan burke:- to be quite honest, I'm still a little confused by.

H

Cob, dan burke:, whether or not, that.

H

cob, dan burke: there's it sounds like in march,. There is a.

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Cob, dan burke: a an interest to teen up.

H

Cob, dan burke: continuing to talk.

H

cob, dan burke:, a future just also request that we may or may not get in that teen up issues unrelated to the specific annexation type of locations and the terms of that. It's it's it's so.

H

Cob, dan burke: correct me: if I'm wrong,, it sounds like.

H

Cob, dan burke: annexation flood mitigation from the board perspective. It doesn't really matter it's all crossed, and that they're talking about sort of working through your mind.

H

Cob, dan burke: all the issues and in and and how? What you need to say at this point versus the timeline for delving into other aspects at a later date,, regardless of whether it's a flood mitigation component for an annotation component..

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John potter, cob: but. curt brown, osbt: what,. What do you think dan dan,? What do you think the city would say,? Because we do have to think about this too, if we said okay.

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Curt brown, osbt: the week of the 21st of february or the 28th of we're going to have a study session to talk about the timelines for a cu, south annexation decisions that might affect open space and the timeline for.

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Curt brown, osbt: the flood control project decision making,. What do you think would be the response of the city and maybe council.-.

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Cob, dan burke: well,, I mean I can just tell you the so. The commitment we've made.

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Cob, dan burke: it because there's so many departments involved with my staff is that we will. We were using the funnel the process subcommittee to do the day, lighting,, for when the community could expect certain meetings and certain issues and and they get the blessing of the subcommittee.

H

Cob, dan burke: to it so that that's sort of the touch points with our community, with the board.

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Cob, dan burke: and the commission so.

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Cob, dan burke: to do it, sort on a parallel track from what's being brought forward, is a little bit concerning, for me,, but maybe that's just bureaucratic concern.

H

Cob, dan burke:, I you know,, we have all been trying to honor that process of a new thing day process subcommittee as a way to sort of funnel at all and and put it to and and to have that sort. Of.

H

Cob, dan burke:, I would feel like we would want to race this at the process of committee or two before to put some notice out there, that you know,. We know that you know we've been trying to all find it through and this.

H

Cob, dan burke:, unexpectedly and and still put some daylight to it.

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Cob, dan burke: would be would be something I would feel. I have an obligation to do.

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Curt brown, osbt: sure, on the 19th or before that makes a lot of sense.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I can't imagine the process committee or council- would be surprised that we're concerned about these issues and that there's an interest to know more about the sequence of events,, the timelines. The decision points now.

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Curt brown, osbt:, maybe their answer to you would be. You know it's too early to try to get details about that. I don't know, I don't know if they would say that,. What do you think.

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Cob, dan burke:. Well, I'm wondering if you john, I know you want to say something before I chime in anytime.

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John potter, cob:, oh um I don't know if this is helpful dan, but it if you look at this from sort of a project management, standpoint.

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John potter, cob:, the way I see it,, is that the critical path right now is annexation. That councils weighing in the key agreement points.

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John potter, cob: annexation, 30% design, then possible disposal, and so a lot of the things that sort of karen is raising here and in the document that she shared and..

O

John potter, cob: in her good point about cost. Those are all things that are kind of are not directly related to annexation, so they they can come after. We have more information and more certainty around that design. That 30% design.

O

John potter, cob:, so it's really right now on that critical path, the key things are are, it is what the board is likely to need in the right.

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John potter, cob: is being considered by council for the negotiation over annexation or not,. And if there are things that are.

O

John potter, cob: not being considered that you all think will be critical, later on, that those are the things to focus on right now, and I don't think- and the timing is so tight- that it's not really a study session issue. It's a it's a mega, emotion and and.

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John potter, cob: say what you think. john potter, cob:. The key agreement points should be other than than what you've already stated,, which is has to do with the land in the water.

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John potter, cob:, but if there are other things that relate to how the mitigation project could move forward, that we're missing or something that would be really super helpful to know, I just don't see what they are right. Now.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: and hal hallstein,, osbt: and yeah thats related to my request for a study session, because I'd like to take a straw poll of my trustees to see if they do or do not agree that the history of ecosystem.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: non investment at cu south over history is relevant to where the mitigation responsibility will ultimately fall under this deal and whether that's something we want to communicate. Expressly.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: to counsel because because it just strikes me as very important.,.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: heading into this annexation, discussion.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: to recognize that the property owner has a unique.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: position that may not be funneled as effectively as people would like.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:. I understand the desire to build a funnel on this project. I also understand the desire of everyone, I speak to in boulder, who is my constituent,, not wanting it to be funneled.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah caroline: do you want to colloquy on house point.

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Caroline miller, osbt: yeah again I'm just going to each time I try and keep it short and sweet. Ghana hear what you say and jonna hear what you say and.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, I just would like to say I respectfully disagree,, and I would after hearing your points and and your critical pathways and what you would like to do.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, if it pleases, the other board members,, I would still like to have a study session and still,. Let us have the opportunity to speak about the things that we find important.

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Caroline miller,, osbt: and again be able to do so in a time frame, where we still have kurt, and I think that these issues are relevant to all of us now, and it would. It would be great for us to be able to sit around a table and and be able to really talk about what we need to talk. About.

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Cob, dan burke: a suggestion, end up.

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Cob, dan burke:, so we have march 14 out there and four weeks,. I do have.

H

Cob, dan burke: a commitment from joe and phil that they could be available on that day,. That will provide us with enough time to build this into the process subcommittee. So we could daylight this.

H

Cob, dan burke: them.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, are you talking about march 14.

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Curt brown, osbt: you said. cob, dan burke:, which is our regular board meeting. One idea is that well but.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I'm sorry, the 10th of march is our board.

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Cob, dan burke:- oh sorry, the 10th of march,, for we go right right. Yeah.

H

Cob, dan burke:, so one suggestion could be, is if we have the study session on the 10th of march and then moved our regular meeting date back to a week or two after that, who, you will have a chance to see the schedule here. Process committee's discussion.

H

Cob, dan burke: I've got commitment from phil and jill that they can join us on the 10th. It would just met, which we have to schedule another meeting anyway, so.

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Cob, dan burke:, my suggestion would be- is that we keep the 10th day. Call the study session and see you and then have a second meeting in which will call it a regular meeting going to address some of the standard items at that time,, in which you could also. If there was a motion or some sort, of.

H

Cob, dan burke: thing you wanted to come out,. You would have the chance to then work on that and presented out that regular board meeting still in march so still under kurt's tenure. So that's a suggestion.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: does that mean we could not meet on february 24.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, which is well worth wednesday.,.

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Cob, dan burke: I mean I.

H

cob, dan burke: mean my personal calendar looks open,, but I mean I would I don't know what support, and if you want any, I mean there's.

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Caroline miller, osbt: karen, are you thinking an evening, like our state or same 6pm or something different.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: no set an evening me.

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Caroline miller, osbt: an update with work for me.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I'm sorry, which day are we talking about now.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: everywhere 24th.

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curt, brown,, osbt: february 24.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: so john, while we're looking at whether the dates work,, I guess,, I would flip your observation and say,. It would be very helpful for the board, for perhaps you and dan, at this study session, to lay out.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, why you think.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. We have sufficient information on the environmental issues related to the annexation that are contained in the you know,. The report.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: are you referring to the briefing book, days.

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dave, kuntz,, osbt: briefing, book.

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John potter, cob: yeah everything,, but what. dave, kuntz, osbt: so,. I guess,, I would say okay,. We would like to hear from staff if you're satisfied with the content of the briefing book, whether it's sufficient, and we could also have the conversation about why some of us may not be.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: and that there may be other issues that we think you know, should be under consideration.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: I,. I agree with that and I would also like to reiterate the concept of looking broadly from the.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: motion in the 2019 motion and.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and the components that were addressed with the granite property to really look holistically at all the elements.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: that we've been considering for the last few years.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: that we know are all relevant to what happens with this property and what happens with flood mitigation and also address jon's question of. Is there anything else that we have not yet considered in a holistic kind of way.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and I. karen hollweg, osbt: quite frankly,. I'm not sure that, for that conversation we need utilities are planning departments.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: and what example in my mind, john, I guess, is the status of the berm on the ceo property,, the current the current burn.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: and whose responsibility it will be to remove it.

F

John potter, cob: so that when.

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dave, kuntz, osbt: and then what's the cost estimate for that and who will be responsible for paying that cost, and you know,. So I think.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, I don't know.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, where that's. karen hollweg, osbt:, where the spoils go, right.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, well yeah how that happens, and I'm not gonna speak for the entire board,. But I think there were several of us who are concerned about the potential flood mitigation as it relates to the cu south property itself and.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know,. The fact is, is that there have been no commitments on any of this and,, and so I guess we're not sanguine that you know that what we think should happen is necessarily going to happen without some definite clarity and commitment.

O

John potter, cob:, yeah and dave. My only point was about the timing. So.

O

John potter, cob: right now, without 30% design. That kind of starts to tell us, you know: what's the mitigation requirement, going to be and then what's the mitigation opportunity,? What does that look like that.

O

John potter, cob: that sort of question about the erasing like with a berm, comes more in that space than now,, particularly if the key point for council the key negotiating point. Is.

O

John potter, cob:, the city acquire the 199 acres with a berm on it,. Then we decide,. We can decide later how we deal with that, and you know who? Who does what and.

O

John potter, cob: bear. john potter, cob: that phil is user. As long as we acquire the property and fee simple, it is that can that decision can be addressed, later on,? It doesn't have to be.

O

John potter, cob:, hardwired at right now and we're still a little bit unsure about what the project is exactly it's all in the timing and you know, and I was,. I was really just.

O

John potter, cob: encouraging the board to think very carefully about what are the key factors that we need to focus on on the annexation, not the things that can wait when we have more information about the flood project.

O

Dave kuntz, osbt: when I. curt, brown, osbt:, just just.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, we., curt, brown, osbt: point out: for. dave, kuntz,, osbt: issues,, and so I guess I don't see the.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: the need to wait until there's a 30%.

F

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I agree. dave kuntz, osbt: well project. I we know what we think the appropriate mitigation should be, and we want a commitment that that's.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: this project gets constructed. That's what the mitigation commitment will be.

F

Curt brown,, osbt: okay,, so dave dave. I just want to remind that. We do have two sets of motions three actually and one of the things that board adopted in emotion, for just, for example,. To take your example is that the berm would be removed and restored at the project. Cost.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I don't know that we'll be able to say much more about that in the end of february or in march, staff has already made that clear.

A

Curt brown, osbt: we may have concerns about whether that's foremost in people's minds, but.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I also don't think it's a decision. That's going to be made during the annexation discussion right now so again, it might not be a bad idea, and I think karen's reference this.

A

Curt brown, osbt: at some point to walk through all of our previous motions and say okay,. We want to ensure this. When is that decision can be made.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and to make sure that there's clarity amongst the board about is that what we want is our current proposal,. Do we still want the berm to be removed and restored of the projects cost.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, some of those decisions, I think,, are going to be made down the road, as dan and john have said. Are there things that are critically linked to the annexation agreement that we haven't already taken a position on like the 119 acres.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: well,, I think,, so I agree with that kurt,, but I think going back to what. How was saying earlier, is that I'm I'm not convinced that the removal of the sea berm is necessarily a project. Cost.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know where the city underwrites the removal of the berm. In fact that may be requirement of see you as part of the annexation agreement.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, and so I think, that. curt, brown,, osbt: annexation, agreement.

F

dave, kuntz, osbt:. I think what we need is some estimate of what that will require.

F

Dave kuntz,, osbt: and then yeah. I agree that it's at some point, their decision on who pays for it is going to have to be made,. But I don't think it's a done deal that it's a.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: project costs that the city necessarily has to pay for.

A

Curt brown, osbt: all did you want to add to that and then caroline.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: um yeah., hal, hallstein,, osbt: humor, some heuristics quickly. To the point of we don't know that much about the project. We know it's a half mile long, concrete damn.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, some of which will be in threatened species area,. We know that it's a breast to south boulder, creek and area we've been focused on mitigating. For decades. We we know.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: that had the original reclamation plan for see you south been followed. There'd be a lot more. You, ladies trust and pebbles jumping mouse there today than there are today.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:. We do know that if the levee hadn't been built off the there'd be quite a bit more wetland and natural setting there I,. I just want to make sure that city council feels empowered to go into a meeting with, see you and ask questions that are very simple to say..

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, since you chose not to participate in the nepa process,. Do you understand how that leaves us now with work requirements related to mitigation? That would not be there. Had you done what you said, you were going to.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: do or explaining some of the elements about how they're actually a holistic partner in this project,, as opposed to the current feeling, which is.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:. We negotiate as a city against ourselves everything around what is going on here while see us, sits stationary and hasn't moved one inch.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:, since the bad news about this not being able to be on see, dots right away and and basically for people to understand that how you read and interpret the charter and what the intent of the charter was, can actually hinge..

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: on those types of things, because it's about equitable sharing of ecosystem costs.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: and, and so, however, as a board,. We want to,. We want to make clear that that actually is an element. Here.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: people may not like that. It's an element,, but it's an important element and it's,, not just in our imaginations. It's clearly in the written words I received from every single boulder right that emails me on this subject.

A

Curt brown, osbt: caroline.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:: well it's hard to follow something like that, with what how just says so I'll make it easy.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, so I'll get easy and say I will echo the same sentiments as him, and we can keep moving.

H

Cob, dan burke: and we have flexibility,. So your goal is to be able to have a study session and probably a regular meeting prior to kurt's departure. So that's the bottom line.

H

Cob, dan burke: and there is nothing magical about two weeks from tonight,. I mean,. I think that I think it would be helpful for the board to have some staff support, whether it's phil or joe or.

H

Cob, dan burke: eyes were just information we have now and and circulate in and around. I there's going to be a lot. We could, you know, prepare for, but.

H

Cob, dan burke:, it could be beneficial so.

H

Cob, dan burke:, if we could have some flexibility of just working out when the timing would be as long as we met the end goal that you're expressing to me,, which is.

H

Cob, dan burke: session in a regular board meeting before kurt's departure, that's kind of what I'm hearing and.

H

Curt brown, osbt: and I will just wait and to say I do see some advantage. To.

A

Curt brown, osbt: having a little bit more time before this study, session.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. So your your idea of having the study session replace the march 10 meeting and move as we are allowed,. If you will, our board meeting until the 24th.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: I,, except that I'm planning on being out of town that week.

H

Cob, dan burke:, well, and that's the other thing is too is, rather than doing it here, we could circulate, making sure we get a date. That.

H

Curt brown, osbt: has going to work yeah yeah.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt: tell me tell me kurt a little bit more about why you want more time.

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,, partly I'm trying to make sure we can get folks like phil and joe here.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I think it is really valuable to be able to ask them questions, and not just be you know discussing this amongst ourselves,, because I think a lot of the uncertainty we're grappling with.

A

Curt brown, osbt: is is stuff, that's out of our control, we're not controlling the timeline for see you south or for the flood project, so having the people who are in charge of those timelines.

A

Curt brown, osbt: at the meeting I do think is really valuable. So that's just my thought, karen and then I'll go to caroline after you. If you have any thoughts, karen.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: I,, my impression is that we have a lot of things to sort out among ourselves as a board.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and, and my impression is that they don't hinge heavily on 30% design.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, but they do.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: hinge heavily on your departure.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and I,, and I also think it's very important to have.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, this study session.

B

karen hollweg, osbt: before our next board meeting,. So the sequence of study session first and board meeting thereafter is important to me.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah. I think that was the proposal either way.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I just have the feeling that.

A

karen hollweg, osbt:, we're going to want to be able to., curt, brown, osbt:, ask people what's that.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the other element that that we're not going to have there one way or the other, is, is the deliberations with see you, and I would not want.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: see you to be a part of the study, session.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: but.

A

Curt brown, osbt: but,, but do you want to be able to ask.

A

Curt brown, osbt: people like joe winners, the board can get briefed on the ground water model.

A

Curt brown, osbt: things like that, or is that not of interest to you.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: well,, I think if we had questions that that john and and dan couldn't answer that there would be.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: on march 10.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: to have, I think, dan said that phil and and joe are available on march 10.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and you don't think it would be advantageous to have them dangerous part of a study. Session.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I don't know mike.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: well,, if I could.

B

Curt brown, osbt: jump in.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: real quick. um I really just want the opportunity to be able to speak with the other board members free. The so dave has expressed a couple of things.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: that he you know said, would be nice for staff to be able to take a look at,. I wonder if the other board members would like to.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, add in if they have something like dave, is able to make that request. If this meeting,, if there's something pressing that they have,, I do not so that puts that out. There, so if.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, karen or kurt, or how I have something,, then they can know tonight and if not,, then we move forward with the the idea that this is not as much staff involvement, as are needing of their participation as it is for us to be able to have.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, the discussion that you know serves us.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: how it looked like you were about to say something no.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: no, no,, I just.

E

hal hallstein, osbt:. I guess my only comment is I agree and we're as a board we're we're honor bound by the law to have public meetings in our discussion in public.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, and I just hope everybody recognizes this- is our attempt to honor those commitments to the law to have a public discussion amongst ourselves on a topic of critical concern.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay. curt brown, osbt:, so it sounds like the boards preference is to have a study session in february. Is that what I'm hearing.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, please not.

I

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, well,. We can ask dan to see if he can and and is it also the board's desire to not have people there from utilities or planning.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, not one way or the other.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, I don't mind if someone would like to attend,, you know if they would like to be there,, then that's fine,, but I don't know that we.

G

Caroline miller, osbt: need them to do any preparatory work to be there.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, and you don't want them there to ask them questions about their timeline.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, if they're there and a question does come up. That would be. You know nice stab there that,, but this is short notice and if they can't make it,, I think that it seems like we would all still move.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, I don't have strong feelings, one way or the other.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I don't, I don't either.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt:, okay um,. I would like, for us to have a common set of documents in front of us for that meeting. Um.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and karen hollweg,, osbt: and I, so I.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: mean,, I think that.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: motions, um.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I don't think, there's anything in the upstream option motion there may be.

A

Curt brown, osbt: right now,. Thank you right, and, of course,. We have the summary that dan and staff put together of those motions, 2018 2019, so that document exists to share.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: karen. What about a grant.

B

Well. karen hollweg, osbt:, I I'd, be glad to.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: to forward the granite document that I showed you earlier there's another document that I was working on in january that I could offer as a.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: possible document for everybody to take a look at to.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and what was that about? Karen.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it was a parallel from the granite property for both boulder creek property.

F

F

dave kuntz, osbt:. I think that would be helpful.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, you know if it would be possible to have a representative from cu who is part of their environmental leadership group that that would be helpful to me,. You know that that would be really interesting to me.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and environmental leadership.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, you know,, you know somebody at see you who's in a leadership role that takes some responsibility for their commitments, which they advertise on sustainability, ecosystem, awareness,, etc.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: somebody is somebody who actually is,. You know thinking about partnering on this. This beautiful piece of boulder.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I don't think anyone from see. You is filled that capacity,, you know.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:. Maybe it was a symbolic question., hal hallstein, osbt:, and give me.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, I mean if there. If there is a person for that role,, we could certainly send me an invite.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:. It would go a long way to us feeling like we had a good faith partner in the project. That's.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, you know I'm all I will say in that regard. Folks, is um it's our job to express what our interests are as the open space board of trustees and to do what we can to make your staff understands what our needs are.

A

Curt brown, osbt: negotiations with the university- and I know you're not saying this negotiation, but.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I think the city's really going to want to handle that through the group, that's already been established to have that negotiation. So.

A

Curt brown, osbt: um I mean.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I think, we've all aired a long list of concerns about that property and how it was developed. But.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I don't think we're going to make much progress with the university saying you need to undo what you did in the past.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, that's my thought.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, it doesn't mean we can't state what we think we need to know, and what we think we might need to mitigate the effects of the project,. I am a little concerned that the focus of this upcoming.

A

Curt brown, osbt: study session become focused almost entirely on the flight control project and mitigating for it.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I think what dan said is true, that the most immediate concern, we should have is how does see yourself annexation touch on our interests and making sure that those interests have been fully spelled out. Now.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I think we have spelled out what our interests are in terms of the land,, but if there are other things besides the land in the water for the dry creek ditch,, then I think that's what we should be focusing on for this study session, because it's the most eminent.

H

Cob, dan burke: yeah. I would just echo that I mean, if there's outside of if there are issues that you could say, is outside of annexation and it's more of like preconditions of what you would need to consider a future disposal. Request.

H

Cob, dan burke:, if you know, if you want to get detailed on that in february.,.

H

Cob, dan burke: we're hoping that that, through 30% design, we're going to show that the original aspect of, for instance, up to five acres and some other aspects are actually going to be able to be reduced..

H

Cob, dan burke:- and we really don't have the full scope of what the ask is going to be, and then there's the issue of c dot and whether or not we're going to get to a actual disposal request is this,. You know, still a question mark.

H

Cob, dan burke:, so I would like some clarification from you occur because I do.

H

Curt brown, osbt: need to. cob, dan burke: day like this to process subcommittee this meeting, because it, it is a public meeting and is engagement and what the title should be is that.

H

Cob, dan burke: is it a sort of a previous conversation and or annexation related or.

H

Curt brown, osbt: yeah, I'm going to ask each member of the board to say what they think the title of this meeting is and karen you can start.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: as a study session, I don't think it's an engagement, session.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: at a study session, there's no public comment.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, this is strictly board discussion.

A

Curt brown, osbt: of what.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, I mean,, could we call it what it's under our title, tonight.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I'm, I don't think it's a date. Didn't.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah, that's what it says: south boulder creek flood mitigation, slash see yourself, update.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, because that would imply that., curt brown, osbt: we're going to get an update from the people that are managing the flood project and the ceo south annexation.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: know. Presumably we already have that, because dan has said that they're.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: at the the subcommittee meeting on the 19th.

J

Caroline miller, osbt: what.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: did I get that right. Down.

H

Cob, dan burke:, oh yeah, but commentary timeline or a draft timeline for.

H

Cob, dan burke: process subcommittee, consideration.

G

Caroline miller, osbt:, if we took out the word, update and just put in discussion.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: board yeah board study session on on.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, so boulder creek flood mitigation and see yourself, discussion or or yeah just take out, update and yeah.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, I would,, I would suggest we add that two words issues and timeline.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, so that it becomes a little clear to everyone, exactly what it is that we're discussing.

A

Curt brown, osbt: other thoughts on the title.

A

curt brown, osbt: thumbs up from caroline.

A

Curt brown, osbt: thumbs up from hawaii alan me.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, I don't have any thumbs anymore.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: thumbs up.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and again I'm just going to ask the question.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, it sounds like we're saying we don't need joe there or anybody that's working on the annexation, because this is an internal discussion.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,. That makes it easier for dan and john to plan this. If they don't need other department staff to be there.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I think it will limit our information, but that's the board's desire. That's the way, we'll go.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: I,. I just want to comment,. I feel deflated vibe.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:. I obviously do not like that. I love this staff,. This is not meant to symbolically be deflating.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, but you I just asked staff,, I guess, to have compassion for when you're a board. Member and you're not allowed to speak to your co board members anywhere, but in public.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: actually do need to create space, from time to time to do that, and and that's what this is about- there's a lot of even really simple questions where I don't know where any of my co board members feel or stand on basic issues, and we don't get a chance to ask those questions. Ever.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah. curt, brown, osbt:. I just want to make sure we don't need outside resources. For that discussion,. It sounds like we're saying no.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: and I think I'm confidence in staff.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, providing the information that we need at this juncture.

F

Karen hollweg, osbt: okay,, I agree,, I think we've got a lot of resources.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, but again,. If we need them to make presentations on something, we need to tell them soon. It sounds like we're saying: nope, y'all, come.,.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know,, we just need a few documents, and I think we're good.

F

Curt brown, osbt: okay.

H

Cob, dan burke: and the lights on.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: and curt brown, osbt: turn the lights on.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt:, in my mind, to be official. The documents have to be posted on the website. So it's not just the five of us that give them it's they're available to the public as well.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: is that correct or not.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, that's a good question. Yeah.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: leah's going.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, I I'd, be willing. To. hal hallstein, osbt: offer my time to work with karen to create that pdf of pre existing pre received documents and also to set a basic agenda for the study. Session.

A

Curt brown, osbt: that would be great.

H

Cob, dan burke:, so we've already have the motions and then the granite document karen sounds like you already have that.

H

Cob, dan burke:, so those two things are already on hand. We get an agenda, put together.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: in curing the draft of whatever you were working on that you think might inform our conversation.

F

Karen hollweg, osbt: would be helpful, okay.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I can,- I can post that into the mix.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: right there, three three things,, then I think.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: for well for.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: granite.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: 2019 granite.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah, the motions granite and the draft of.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, whatever you been working, on.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I see the motions, as you know, together.

F

Curt brown, osbt:, so I'm. dave, kuntz, osbt: john's already done that. So we've got those right.

D

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,. I think it would be good to have an agenda because that's what the public is going to focus on.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt: and curt brown, osbt: keep in mind that what.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, what's that. karen hollweg, osbt: okay, but., curt brown, osbt:, keep in mind what you put on the agenda will be viewed as what we're going to be moving to make decisions. On.

A

Curt brown, osbt: so. curt brown, osbt:. If, if we've got discussion of the specific requirements of it, disposal.

A

Curt brown, osbt: that conveys to everybody who looks at it, that we're ready to move on, or disposal motion that may not be what you're really trying to say so,. I would just say, be careful how you frame it on the agenda.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, but there will be no decisions at the study, session, and so, from my perspective, kurt. This is just anticipatory of.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know something that might occur if it does not occur.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:: we don't do it.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, it's right,, I would just say, keep in mind that people will look carefully at the agenda. That's all.

A

Curt brown, osbt: I'll. Let you guys work with dan on that dan. Do you need anything more than from us to try to figure out.

H

Cob, dan burke: no,, I have a question for lee. I think you're gonna be out of town for the next week or so is that correct.

J

Cob leah case:, that's I'm out until march 1.

H

Cob, dan burke: yeah, so I could figure out a way: to.

H

karen hollweg, osbt:, to do the hawaii to.

B

Cob leah case:: I wish karen feedback so allison should be able to help.

H

Cob, dan burke: and as and, as far as getting.

H

cob, dan burke: postings out and stuff, we could you could get support for that,, yes, okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and curt brown, osbt: dan you,. You should probably say when you need the agenda and the documents by.

H

Cob, dan burke: well,, I mean our practices to get things out a week ahead of time,. But that's we there's flexibility in that. You know if we get it in out by weeks and next week, leah, where that mean right, it doesn't.

H

Cob, dan burke:- I don't know when, when we need to have things officially posted by.

J

Cob leah case: yeah, I mean legally required it's 24 hours. We just as a practice like to have a lot more than that so yeah end of week. Dan is still plenty of time,. As long as this group, you know.

A

Curt brown, osbt: can I ask karen how to have that.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt:, we can be done by wednesday, can't we.

A

Hal hallstein, osbt: yes., curt brown, osbt:. That was my question.

A

Curt brown, osbt: how about seo be on the 16th.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, that's tuesday.,.

B

Karen hollweg, osbt: pushy pushy pushy.

A

Well. curt brown, osbt: no later than noon on the 17th, so that we give them a bit of a working day to get the package ready to post..

E

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, any other requests here are dan. Do you need any more information.

H

Cob, dan burke: no,, I think I'm good.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, any other matters from the board.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah, that's so okay,. I appreciate the discussion folks. I really do.

A

Curt brown, osbt:: these are important questions and we need to learn as much as we can.

A

Curt brown, osbt: all right, well,. If there are no other comments from the board,, then we are adjourned.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. Thank you. All.

H

Hal hallstein, osbt: right everybody, thank you, everybody.