City of Boulder, CO OSMP Meetings, 10 Mar 2021

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From YouTube: 3-10-21 City of Boulder OSBT Meeting

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3-10-21 City of Boulder OSBT Meeting

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Curt brown, osbt:, 10th 2021 and welcome to all who may be watching or listening or participating in our virtual meeting tonight, as always,. I will start with a roll call of the board members that are present palestine.

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President., curt brown, osbt:, karen hallway. dave kuntz, osbt: here dave quotes here.

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Curt brown, osbt: and caroline miller.

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curt brown, osbt: and I'm kirk brown, so live,. We have all board members present tonight, now, just a quick agenda preview. For folks we do not have a public hearing scheduled on the agenda tonight,. So you are welcome to address any topic that you want to discuss during our public comment. Period.

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Curt brown, osbt: that could be included,, given the board's discussion of the csl annexation that our recent study session.

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Curt brown, osbt:, the public comment will occur shortly, following the approval of the minutes,, and at this point I turned allison to go over the rules of the meeting and the process for signing up to speak during public comment. Allison.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, hey thanks,. Let me share my screen.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, you can see those slides.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, so thanks for joining us tonight and to strike a balance between transparent engagement and online security, we.

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Alison ecklund, cob: ask that the following rules are applied to this meeting in this meeting has been called to conduct the business of the city of boulder and activities that disrupt.

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Alison ecklund, cob: delay or interfere with the meeting are prohibited. The time for speaking or asking questions may be limited and no person shall speak, except when recognized by the person presenting in this.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: case kurt., alison ecklund, cob:. Each person shall register to speak at this meeting by using your your full first and last name,. So if you've joined the meeting.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, sometimes it will appear like tom's ipad, and we would ask that you rename yourself before. We can unmute you to speak, and you can also.

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Alison ecklund, cob: send me a message in the chat. If you don't know, and I can rename, for you know, video will be permitted,, except for city officials, employees and invited speakers and presenters.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, all other participants will be voice only and the person presenting at this meeting shall enforce these rules by muting. Anyone who violates these rules.

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Alison ecklund, cob: that chat function is enabled to me, or two will come to me only and the chat is for technical zoom related questions. Only not content. Questions, thank you,, and only the host and individuals designated by the host will be permitted to share their screen during this meeting.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay., curt brown, osbt: thank you, and, at this time allison how many folks we have signed up.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, no one signed up in advance.

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Curt brown, osbt:, our attendance is diminishing.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,. We will check back with you, after the minutes to see if there are folks that are signed up,. So thank you for taking care of that. At this point we will review and approve the minutes from our last formal board, meeting,, which was january 13th 2021,, and so I will entertain corrections.

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Curt brown, osbt: adjustments to the meetings starting on page one, and just board members raise your hand if you have a correction.

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Curt brown, osbt:. I do not see anyone raising your hand for page one,. I will go to page two,, which is very brief.

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Curt brown, osbt: karen karen yes.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I would like to make the addition of a phrase, on page one, in the first paragraph.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, for um where it says the board, asked clarifying questions. About.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, um I went back and I checked the recording to make sure that my.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: edition is accurate, with the video and.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: at some point, in that sequence of phrases,, I would like to add the phrase, how many visitors, the system can accommodate and still sustain the systems ecosystem, health.

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Curt brown, osbt:: do you have a suggestion, where you would like to I mean you could make it as an additional sentence at the end of just because it's fairly low on whatever your pleasure is.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: well, in the recording it came right before comparing ecological data with social data,. So perhaps that's the place to insert it.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,: do you want to read it one more time to make sure leah's got that and lunch or read a couple words before it too,? So we know where you're at.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: a data considering additional times of day and specific locations, comma and then insert how many visitors, the system can accommodate and still sustain the systems. Ecosystem, health.

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Curt brown, osbt: lead, you think you have that.

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curt brown, osbt:. She always does okay.

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Curt brown, osbt: any other proposed changes to the minutes.

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Curt brown,, osbt: or phaedra second page anyone.,.

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Curt brown, osbt: I'm not seeing any hands.

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curt, brown, osbt: okay,. So at this point, we will vote to approve.

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Curt brown, osbt: the minutes of january 13 2021. I will call the role how hall stein.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, I grew. curt brown, osbt: karen hallway and I'm sorry. This is as modified by karen's amendment karen.

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Curt brown, osbt: yes, dave, codes., curt, brown,, osbt:, yes,, caroline miller.

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Curt brown,, osbt: yes, and I correct grounds- oh yes, also, so the minutes are approved. Unanimously.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, tremendous., hal hallstein osbt:, before we move into the public comment.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, we would like to read proclamation from open space board of trustees. If people give me one moment proclamation, it's called a proclamation recognizing the dedication and volunteer service of kurt brown to open space in mountain parks from 2016 through 2021.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, correct brown, joined the open space board of trustees and 2016 and began at 10 years. That would help open space and the mountain parks department too many significant achievements.

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Hal hallstein osbt: kurt has shown a passion and commitment for open space, through his leadership. His knowledge of the smp system in his thoughtful representation of community interests.

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Hal hallstein osbt: kurt was instrumental in providing meaningful guidance for many significant achievements,, including the completion of the agricultural resources management, plan.

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Hal hallstein osbt: updates to the boulder valley, comprehensive plan and integrated site plans for gun barrel hill to get hard property and wonder lake.

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Hal hallstein osbt: additionally,, this board tenure involved the acquisition of for large historic ranch properties in the boulder valley.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, shanahan ranch, boulder valley, farm four chambers, poor farm and lippincott ranch, in addition to several smaller priority. Acquisitions, ensuring over 1400 and 50 acres of land are protected in perpetuity under the smp system.

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Hal hallstein osbt: a legacy achievement during kurt's time on the board was the completion of osm piece first overarching masterplan, framing and guiding the future management of open space. Lands.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, in a manner that reflects the community's hopes and dreams for the future of open space in mountain parks..

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Hal hallstein osbt: kurt played a key role in the process,. As a member of the master planning process. Committee.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, together with staff process committee, guided a multifaceted process that included seven community events.

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Hal hallstein osbt: to drop in listening sessions statistically valid community survey, online questions and responses to study sessions with city council and more than a dozen meetings and study sessions of the owners base board of trustees.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, kurt in the process committee emphasized that staff conduct targeted outreach and engagement to reach voices that might not otherwise be heard.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, resulting in more than 10,000 comments,, including members of the lab next community, youth and perfect persons experiencing disability, kurt, showed constant support to the staff working on the master plan.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, the best it could be demonstrating his ability to work collaboratively with collaboratively with others, lifting us all.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, kurt's leadership role as board chair over the past year,, perhaps will stand alone as an unprecedented and unique circumstance, in that the department of community had to adapt and navigate through coven 19 pandemic, requiring all board meetings to be managed online and virtually.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, this resulted in,, not a single meeting during his time as chair taking place in the council chambers. Instead, kurt had to use his own home and chair.

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Hal hallstein osbt: to chair,, while being compassionate to the challenges and constraints everyone was experiencing and coping with this pandemic.

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Hal hallstein osbt: you had during this challenging time as board chair.

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hal hallstein osbt:. He provided excellent leadership to the board and staff in managing challenging discussions,, including the expedited review of paradox on year ago. Irritated agricultural fields.

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Hal hallstein osbt: and the south boulder creek flood mitigation project is even handed an inquisitive approach, helped move these and other projects forward for the department in positive ways, adding value to the work of staff.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, since 2016 current contributed over 1200 volunteer hours serving on the board of trustees on the accomplishments listed above,, to which oh smp staff and the community are greatly appreciative..

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Hal hallstein osbt:, therefore I, how stein vice, chair of the open space board of trustees do hereby proclaim that the leadership exhibited by kurt brown over these past five years.

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Hal hallstein osbt: has been instrumental to the success of this board and the open space and mountain parks department proclaimed this 10th day of march in the year 2021, on behalf of the full open space board of trustees and the open space and mountain parks, department.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, thank you so much, kurt and I also wanted to read a short message related to a gift for your service,, which is a beautiful photograph. Taken.

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Hal hallstein osbt: of the flat irons with a moon behind it, provided graciously by rich wolf, a photographer of our system,, who also sent his appreciation for what you have done with this board to manage our precious open space and his..

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Curt brown,, osbt: happiness, to. hal hallstein osbt:, be able to offer this image to you on the department's behalf.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,. Thank you! How that's wonderful and thanks to all of you, to.

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Curt brown, osbt:, it's a it's been a very interesting year, but it's been a great year and.

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Curt brown, osbt:- all I can do is say thanks to all the board, members and staff are making challenging circumstances manageable. So really I appreciate it in,, in spite of the interesting and sometimes difficult issues that we've had to deal with, we've made it all work and I.

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Curt brown, osbt: just greatly appreciate the staff support all five years in this board,, particularly over the last year.

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Curt brown, osbt:. I think this is where I get to make recommendations for the future, I think, tom did and.

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Curt brown, osbt:, so I think this year has been interesting,, but I think it's better to meet in person.

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Curt brown, osbt:, that's just my impression.

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Curt brown, osbt:, you might think about the young boys forward.

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Curt brown, osbt: and you know I don't want to criticize,, but during this last year,, the quality of the food that we had before our meetings. It's.

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Curt brown, osbt:, really gone. curt, brown,, osbt:, downhill, so.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I just have to say it.

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curt brown, osbt:. I actually do have one substantive recommendation.

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Curt brown, osbt:, and that is something that I think we've been moving towards,, and so I would recommend that from the first meeting of the term, that.

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Curt brown, osbt:, both the chair and the vice chair, participate in the agenda discussions. I just think it's really valuable. I know when.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I was participating during the latter. Half of tom's last term is chair,. It really helped me, and I think it would prepare.

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Curt brown, osbt: it would mean that the vice chair would always be knowledgeable and ready to step in if necessary, for the chair. So that would be my one substantive suggestion is to is to consider that going forward,, but obviously that's up to the board.

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Curt brown, osbt:. So thank you again. That was a wonderful commendation and I really appreciate it.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: current with your forbearance.

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dave, kuntz, osbt: yes,. If I could say something that tom isaacs and couldn't be here tonight,, but asked me to read an appreciation for you, and so,. If that sounds okay,, I will do that.

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Curt brown, osbt:. Thank you very much..

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Dave kuntz, osbt: kurt congratulations on finishing your five years on the board. The city in the open space system are far better off as a result of your commitment and hard work,. Many tough issues,, including prairie dogs,. So you south, the master plan and others have been tackled during your time.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: throughout all of it you've been a voice of thoughtful informed and sensible guidance,. You were always able to stay calm, focused and good humoured during these discussions.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, but you never fool this with your modesty and self-effacement, you knew exactly what you were talking. About.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, you exhibited the best traits of a trustee. Although you had a clear perspective, you helped avoid needless contentiousness and instead work constructively to find compromises that received in deserve broad support.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, you helped bring the board together. You even led the board to a five to zero vote on a mountain biking issue, a vast improvement over the three to two votes that previously had plagued us.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: during my time as chair, I was especially grateful to have your wise advice on on a wide range of planning and substantive issues. It made those years immensely easier and more enjoyable. We should all be grateful for your service. Good luck with whatever comes next for you, um isaacson.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,. Thank you dave. That's really! Wonderful, and you know the best preparation anybody could have for big chair is to serve a slice here for two years in a row under eyes.

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Curt brown, osbt:, so that's awfully guided him to say those things,, but he made it very easy, so anyway,. But thank you dave. I appreciate that.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: well I'd like to add just a quick comment to that as well and and basically.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: I like to have my appreciation of your dedication on and analyzing issues and tenacity in getting to common understanding and ground,. I think.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know, during the 10 year, I've been here, it's been rewarding to work with you and all of us have appreciated it and how I think your proclamation was excellent and right on and thanks for doing, that, and thank you curt will miss you.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,, thanks to all of you.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, and I just I just want to briefly add before we move on.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: that it's amazing how much we needed your damn expertise.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: five years ago, when you are appointed.

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dave, kuntz, osbt:, put god in front of that, though.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, you might have thought so.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and I'm surprised,, nobody has mentioned, your attentiveness and great ideas with the junior ranger program.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, but I I really appreciate all that you've done for the open space system in the last five years. You've really done a heavy lift of great service to the community and to our open space system and best wishes to you as you expand your grandfatherly role.

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Curt brown, osbt: yes,, that's right! We're having our second grandchild born tomorrow. So.

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Curt brown, osbt:: this is an interesting transition.

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Curt brown, osbt:. Thank you karen. I really appreciate that.

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Curt brown, osbt: well.

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Cob, dan burke: all., cob, dan burke:, all chime in from the staff perspective,, so you and I have an interesting beginning and that I actually my 10 year, started on leap year february, 29 2016. So I got to buy a month,, a month.

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Cob, dan burke:, so we kind of spend together and so you've been with me every step of the way- and I just I know from a staff full staff perspective, that.

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Cob, dan burke:, you know what makes a really great partnership between a board and a staff, and I've had the privilege of working in in leadership. Roles with boards, for for most of my professional life is, is the level of respect and approachability and and you,. You are very approachable, a staff never.

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Cob, dan burke:, we look forward to discussions with you, we you're very respectful of staff and just like with karen and dave saying and the proclamation, your knowledge bases is really out of the park. And, of course,, adding that to the knowledge base of staff is as well,. I think what the boards.

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Cob, dan burke:, really lift is, is putting all this community community knowledge, together,, and so I just personally just really have appreciated the last five years,. I can't believe it's it's. It's happy quickly.

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Cob, dan burke:. That means that I've been here for well over five years: now, too,, so don't be happy staff we're going to miss you and again. We just really appreciated your approachability and your respect and.

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Cob, dan burke: and, and your knowledge,, so thank. curt, brown, osbt:. You well, thank you, dan and I have to say that we worked on some really difficult issues over the last five years.

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Curt brown, osbt:, but I have never once seen any hesitation on the part of the staff to engage with us to provide information to support our questions and our need for understanding..

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Curt brown, osbt:, even when we were bringing up really difficult issues, and that's that's really the measure of a staff that goes beyond what their job description is and..

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Curt brown, osbt:, you know all of us know how difficult it's been for the staff this last year, and how crazy it's been for everybody.

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Curt brown,, osbt: and they've always remained positive,, as have you and your your leadership, team and that's.

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Curt brown, osbt:, that's a real testament to your commitment to both the system, and then the city and the citizens of boulder. So anyway thanks it's made it really enjoyable, even through the most difficult issues,. So thank you.

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Curt brown, osbt:. I think that takes us to the public comments so allison I turn back to you. Can we're are we.

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Alison ecklund, cob: okay,. Thank you. So some people have joined since my spiel at the beginning of this meeting, so,. If you would like to participate in public comment, you can raise your hand now and I'll just go in order.

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Alison ecklund, cob: that,. I see the hands, if you open your participant pins, box, the little icon down at the bottom,. You should at the very bottom of that box, have.

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Alison ecklund, cob: a button to raise hand,, or sometimes it's appearing in the reactions icon, also at the bottom of your screen. If you click on that, you should also have the ability.

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Alison ecklund, cob: maybe to raise your hand so both of those work,. I see a lot of first and last name, so everyone looks in good shape, if they do wish to speak and I'm not seeing any hands. Raised.

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Curt brown, osbt:, so okay., alison, ecklund, cob:, give it one more second to see if anyone's and if you're having any issues. Oh ok,, we have a hand. I was also going to say you can always chat, chat to me, too, and, let me know that,, so we do have lynn siegel, so lynn.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, you can unmute yourself and leah will start the time and just state your first and last name, please.

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Alison ecklund, cob:. Can you unmute.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, your really quiet.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, I can barely hear lynn- is anyone else. Hearing.

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Curt brown, osbt: your.

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Curt brown, osbt: we're just not getting anything.

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Alison ecklund, cob: yeah. I did I.

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Curt brown, osbt: land land,. This is kurt, I'm I'm sorry. We've got a technical issue, and I guess what I would ask you to do. Is, if you can't change things,. The setup right now is to just send the whole board an email with your comments.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, don't see anything in the chat. Window.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I guess we'll go we'll- have to go on allison. Do we have any.

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Alison ecklund, cob: put in the chat to me, stop allowing development.

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Curt brown,, osbt:, okay., curt, brown, osbt: and I would again asked lynn to you, know, write down any comments. She was going to give and and send it to the whole board and we will treat it as her public comment.

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Alison ecklund, cob: okay, and that's good and she's, also saying in the chat, not enough open space for water view and he be so.

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Alison ecklund, cob: lynn. If you can hear us.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, just please email the board, your comments and I'm not seeing any other hands. Raised.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay, well,, thank you allison,. Then we will go on to the next item on the agenda,, which is matters from the department, and I will turn it to dan.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, thank you, curt. cob, dan burke:, so we have. cob, dan burke:. Our major item under matters is to provide the board with an overview of two of our initiatives. Involved,, you know work with.,.

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Cob, dan burke: tribal nations., cob,, dan burke:, and so just a little bit of background. We provide you a pretty extensive memo.

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Cob, dan burke: on on various aspects of our work with patients,. We love that is also going to be used as a template to provide counsel with a memo.

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Cob, dan burke: and the upcoming weeks, so there's a there's a lot more information in there,. Then we have planned to verbalize tonight. So after phil gets done with this portion, which will be after mine.

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Cob, dan burke: will open it up for any questions that you have them on the issues that are the initiatives that I update you on and that phil does,. But if there's any other questions you have about.

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Cob, dan burke: in the packet also just mentioned that christian driver is also with us tonight and so between the three of us,. Hopefully we can answer any questions you have about our tribal. The city's travel relation work.

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Cob, dan burke: so,, like I said, the memo that we prepared has a lot of details and information on on a host of initiatives that are ongoing are underway.

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Cob, dan burke:, some of them have been underway for many years, other one other other of them are pretty fresh, are designed to strengthen the city's relationship with tribal governments and indigenous peoples.

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Cob, dan burke:, our goal for tonight is to provide you with an update on that's a little bit more focus and that will be on two areas. First, I'm going to provide you with an update on our formal tribal.

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Cob, dan burke: city, consultation, efforts and affiliates will join us and he'll provide you with an overview of the process, framework and timeline that the city is city staff is using the guide, the development of a land acknowledgement.

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Cob, dan burke:, so first we'll touch upon tribal consultation. So in your is a really great guide on what tribal consultation is. It was authored by ernest house.

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Cob, dan burke:, who is actually a consultant to the city of boulder on tribal relations.,.

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Cob, dan burke: authored a great book on tribal consultation,. So if you have a chance to skim that or read that over.

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Cob, dan burke:, I encourage you to put a really informative document,, but in a nutshell, tribal consultation is broadly defined as a process of meaningful government to government communication and coordination.

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Cob, dan burke: between government agencies and tribal governments, and typically they happen prior to an agency that is taking any actions or making any.

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Cob, dan burke: that may affect tribes or travel interests,. You know,, although consultation, was originally established as a federal government policy.

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Cob, dan burke:, since then, numerous states in a few select municipalities have also sought to use consultation.

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Cob, dan burke:, in order to gather input from tribal governments when their own actions are thought to affect tribal interests.

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Cob, dan burke: and just make just there is no law that is actually requiring the state or local governments from conducting consultations- and I know in talking with ernest that the city of boulder is one of just a handful of municipalities that has a rich history of consultation. Work.

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Cob, dan burke: and that history, as actually dating back to the late 1990s and enter the early 2000s. And that's when the city of boulder and tribal nations, consistently help consultations. And what emerged out of these meetings for a series of memory of understanding..

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Cob, dan burke: around the great time of the great recession, 2008 2009 discussions and consultation ceased, and they weren't picked up again until 2019 when he hosted a two day, consultation that was attended by over a dozen tribal nations, a.

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Cob, dan burke: consultation was this was scheduled to continue the discussions, but, as we all know.

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Cob, dan burke: in march 2020, when the consultation was scheduled to happen between the city and over a dozen tribes.

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Cob, dan burke: that had to be cancelled due to the onset of the pandemic, and it was actually the first, I think, formal meeting that was cancelled, as a result of of the pandemic sort of ensuing, and some health orders began on march 13.

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Cob, dan burke:- I thought at that time, was that we would post council postpone consultation into until 2021.

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Cob, dan burke: so, in order to gain tribal interest in holding a consultation and 2021, we coordinated a conference call with tribes on february 18 and really the goal of that call was to..

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Cob, dan burke: discuss their interest in holding a consultation soon, in which that would need to be a virtual format on teams or zoom.

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Cob, dan burke:, or do we hold off until we're able to meet face to face, which, in that,? If that was the case,, probably wouldn't happen until late 2021 and probably more likely in 2022 timeframe.

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Cob, dan burke:, it was pretty much unanimous decision from the participants on that phone call that there was strong interest in continuing the 2019 discussions sooner than later, and the us to hold a virtual consultation and to do so as soon as we as soon as possible..

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Cob, dan burke:, so what we're doing now is we're now working to confirm a date and and whether or not a tentative april date is the date that will work.

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Cob, dan burke:, it hasn't been confirmed yet we're going to have a meeting with staff staff later this week, in which we might have some more information that might.

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Cob, dan burke: feed us some more definitive on that,, but right now, that's a tentative date and the focus of this upcoming consultation is likely going to focus on three subject, matters,, two of which were the subject. Matters of.

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Cob, dan burke: first,, the name change it set up of settlers park, is called for in the 2016 indigenous peoples day resolution and, second, continuing to discuss how best to update the existing mo use that exists between the city and over a dozen tribal governments.

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Cob, dan burke:, the third subject, is going to be a new one that wasn't discussed before with the tribes,, and that is getting some initial.

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Cob, dan burke: feedback from the tribes on the city's desire to develop a language acknowledgement, statement or statements. So I'm going to just provide some background quick background on two of the three subjects and then phil will join us to provide you.

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Cob, dan burke: the process framework for how we are thinking of working through the land, acknowledgement initiative, so first settlers part.

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Cob, dan burke:, then this may be familiar to some of you so, but just to refresh it because, in the next month, we could be in consultation and it's just a good time for all of us. To.

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Cob, dan burke: refresh ourselves on these things,, the 2016 peoples, indigenous peoples, a resolution states, and I quote.

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Cob, dan burke:, in recognition of a memorandum of understanding the city entered into with indigenous tribes, concerning open space, lands.

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Cob, dan burke:, the city request, input from representatives of those tribes and other interested parties, regarding the name that commemorates the indigenous presence on parkland, knowing us settlers park.

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Cob, dan burke:, the resolution also stated at the city manager consider any application submitted to rename the parkland based on the input of indigenous tribes and interested parties..

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Cob, dan burke:, so the name change was a topic at the 2019 consultation,. As I mentioned, and discussion.

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Cob, dan burke: that consultation close with representatives agreeing to discuss the name change with their governments.

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Cob, dan burke:, the cancellation of the 2020 meeting, really perverted further discussion of a proposal can change,, and that is what we expect to bring back up for central discussion..

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Cob, dan burke: next month,, hopefully so after a possible name, change, processes,, complete and that process includes completion, submission and approval of a name, change application that the city uses for name, change.,.

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Cob, dan burke: or s&p anticipates beginning to change infrastructure in the area to reflect the new name.

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Cob, dan burke:, so the second major focus of the upcoming consultation will be on the updated memorandum of understanding.

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Cob, dan burke:, the city of boulder, currently has several legal agreements, and, I believe, copies work in your packet or a link to them.

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Cob, dan burke: in your packet with 13 federally recognized american indian tribal nations, and these agreements resulted from formal city consultations in the late 90s and early 2000s..

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Cob, dan burke:, just a very brief history. Consultations initially began with a proposed construction of this building in the city of boulder on broadway in the 1990s.

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Cob, dan burke:- and this was formal conversations between the federal government and tribal nations.

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Cob, dan burke: and and out of that came a 1998 memorandum of agreement between the government and the tribes, and that agreement, among other things.

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Cob, dan burke: read to set aside a portion is that property for permanent protection through a conservation, easement agreement and that conservation.

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Cob, dan burke: easement agreement is held by the city and the city of boulder is open. Space. Mountain parks department actually has responsible responsibility to oversee, managing and make sure the terms of that agreement is upheld in perpetuity.

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Cob, dan burke:, so the city of join these early negotiations, then,. After this nist agreement agreement,, we continue to have consultations, independently of the federal government, with the tribes.

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Cob, dan burke: of that became several other memorandums of understanding and and, in a nutshell,. What some of these common.

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Cob, dan burke:, held beliefs, that we have with the tribes were that preserving open space and cultural resources on city land is important,, providing opportunities for tribal members to access, open space and and practice ceremonial and have ceremonial practices.

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Cob, dan burke: establishing yearly government to government consultation goals when financially feasible and, finally establishing a procedure to notify the tribes that native american cultural resources are inadvertently discovered on. Oh s&p, lands.

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Cob, dan burke: so bouncing ahead, to.

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Cob, dan burke:, what what came out of that as we determine and agreed that the existing agreements should be updated and ideally consolidated into one mo you. So it's easy to easier to track as new representatives and new staff.

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Cob, dan burke: come on to the scene that we're not tracking back several agreements,, one of which was amended a couple of times,, so the goal would be,. Can we put these all under one umbrella.

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Cob, dan burke: also recognize that there are several new issues that that may be right for inspiration to be included in the mo you and some of those.

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Cob, dan burke: topics that will discuss in 20 upcoming consultation include a including a primary goal and a commitment.

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Cob, dan burke: in the open space purposes, as as described in the city charter communicated, is the desire of the city and the tribes to let no more than four years lapse between formal consultations.

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Cob, dan burke: encouraging the city and the tribes, to work together to provide accurate educational information about the history of tribes and other indigenous peoples in boulder and jefferson. Counties.

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Cob, dan burke: encouraging the tribes, to provide ongoing guidance and cultural resources and education and interpretation of cultural resources..

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Cob, dan burke:- and this may include to develop a framework to identify significant landscape features that are important to the tribes, and then the framework for how the tribes will be notified. Pros projects and activities related to those identified. Significant areas.

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Cob, dan burke: a possible new item and the mo you could be provided an opportunity for tribes to routinely meet with the members of the open space board of trustees..

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Cob, dan burke:, we heard that at the last consultation that they would love the opportunity to meet with this board routinely and,. And so we are thinking of actually putting a clause in mo view that states that intention.

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Cob, dan burke: and finally,, including and then and a revised mo you revisions to update sections where current legislation, current rules and ordinances.

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Cob, dan burke: may apply so.

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Cob, dan burke: portions of it, for example,, the state's unmarked unmarked burial process, as the new guidance that you ought to reflect in a more current and will.

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Cob, dan burke:, so the third subject likely to be discussed that consultation at is the city's desire to develop a land acknowledgement, and some of you may have been tracking this over the past two months or so..

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Cob, dan burke:, it's been an emerging issue,, but in a moment I'm going to ask affiliates to join us to describe this project, but to wrap up the consultation part of.

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Cob, dan burke: of the verbal overview,- I just want to alert you and to encourage you.

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Cob, dan burke: to listen in on the april six city council meeting and that's what earnest house who's. The former executive director of the colorado commission of indian affairs he's now a senior policy advisor.

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Cob, dan burke: for the keystone policy center is going to be providing counsel with an overview of background for what consultation is and what to expect in a consultation.

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Cob, dan burke: and the format and a feel for these formal government to government negotiations and meetings. So if you haven't had an opportunity to listen in on earnest or,, if you have it's a.

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Cob, dan burke:- it's probably been a couple of years, now, so april. Six under matters from the city manager ernest will be providing about a 45 minute overview for the council, so encourage you to listen and if that's possible.

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Cob, dan burke: to do, and also in the coming week, or so I alluded to this city staff- is going to get together to seek to confirm a consultation, date.

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Cob, dan burke: and a final agenda and the participants and some of the nitty gritty, and when these deep details are forthcoming,, we will be sure to update the board,. We know we have a quick turnaround.

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Cob, dan burke:, it really was a consensus from the tribal representatives on the late february, call.

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Cob, dan burke: to have this as soon as possible,, because their season really starts ramping up in mid starting in mid april..

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Cob, dan burke: and it would be problematic for them to dedicate the time needed past that so we're in a little bit of a condensed stage. So, as we start to hear details and confirmations, we will be sure to relate them to you, probably via email.

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Cob, dan burke:, so with that, I will now turn it over to fill. Who will provide you with a few minutes, so an overview of mine acknowledgement and then that or after that we can open it up for for questions.

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Phillip yates, cob: sounds good.

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Phillip yates, cob: thank you, dan. Can everyone hear me just making sure.

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Phillip yates, cob: excellent. Let me share my screen: real quick.

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Phillip yates, cob:, so yeah just would like to provide a little update and information about the city's effort to develop land acknowledgement with the community and american.

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Phillip yates, cob:, indian tribes. This information has been shared with the public through several several avenues,, and this is a city wide effort that includes huge.

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Phillip yates, cob: housing and human services, open space, mountain parks,, the city manager's office, and it's a city wide effort, people can learn more at be heard boulder and to share their comments. Moving forward.

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Phillip yates, cob: and so, as we look forward,, what is the city, seeking to do with land acknowledgments? Give me one moment is gonna be.

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Phillip yates, cob:, looking back at what the indigenous peoples day resolution says, sorry is the forge a path forward to address the past.

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Phillip yates, cob: is what we're really looking to do as intended, in this city's indigenous peoples a resolution and really recognize important acknowledgments.

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Phillip yates, cob: that are in the indigenous peoples day resolution,. We believe this is important step,, particularly in the wake of the city passing its recent racial equity, plan.

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Phillip yates, cob:, really other really,, really important thing is respecting honoring the relationships, the city of boulder, has with american tribes.

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Phillip yates, cob:. We would also like to recognize and respect indigenous people as the traditional stewards of the land.

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Phillip yates, cob:, and I think the important thing that we all heard, or some of many of us heard during consultation, is acknowledge. The enduring relationship.

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Phillip yates, cob: that continues to exist between indigenous people and their traditional territories as a part of this,. We also want to celebrate their culture, heritage and wisdom.

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Phillip yates, cob:, but we also want to inspire and demonstrate ongoing action, which is really important, and.

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Phillip yates, cob: another part that we that I think is important to community members,, particularly folks that helped developed indigenous peoples day resolution is counter the doctrine of discovery and that's.

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Phillip yates, cob:, just broadly the spiritual, political and legal justification of colonization and seizure of indigenous land.

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Phillip yates, cob:, but right now we are in the midst of seeking public from the community, and just broadly we're looking to build on the indigenous peoples day. Resolution and city staff plans to use resolutions.

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Phillip yates, cob: statements and our proposed city government land acknowledgments cuny members- can share their input on these.

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Phillip yates, cob: on city landing dolphins through be her boulder until midnight, tuesday march 23.,.

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Phillip yates, cob: again,. What we're really looking at right now is to respect the hard work community members did to develop the indigenous peoples a resolution.

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Phillip yates, cob:, and what we're seeking right? Now, our themes,, not in the resolution that can be considered for land acknowledgments.

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Phillip yates, cob: and as we move forward, we're going to be seeking tribal representatives, guidance on acknowledgement statements and how the city can use them,, including that meetings and web pages with honor and respect, and that's a key aspect of this effort.

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Phillip yates, cob:, and I think one thing for us just to take a step, is probably to review some key statements that are included in the indigenous peoples day resolution,. So I just like take a moment for one to read this real quick.

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Phillip yates, cob: I'll give it a few extra.

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phillip, yates,, cob: seconds., phillip yates, cob:. We need to go back,. Let me know but.

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Phillip yates, cob: I'll move forward. That's okay.

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Phillip yates, cob:, so one thing I think it's really important for us to stress is that these could take time and.

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Phillip yates, cob: to what dan was saying. It's really important to remember that tribal representatives consult with many different agencies across the country.

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Phillip yates, cob: dates and plans are tentative right now can take time, and one thing that's also important to remember is that this work could span.

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Phillip yates, cob: to consultations, so not just one,, so we want to be cognizant that we are working in respect with respect and collaboration, as we move forward and we're seeking guidance moving forward. So.

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Phillip yates, cob:. What we intend right now is that well, we did take an initial first step with receiving hr, see feedback. Now we're presenting this update to trustees.

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Phillip yates, cob:, we are seeking public input through march 23. There will be a council update on april six. We disobey tribal consultation, have it in early april.

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Phillip yates, cob: as a part of this,. We want to ensure that we reach out to tribal governments,, particularly to make sure that they can weigh in if we're missing the mark and then we'll return with a council update summer in the summer or fall. So that's it, I'm dan, do you want take it over again.

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Phillip yates, cob: or I think we're open for questions now.

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Cob, dan burke:, I think that's where we're at, and again, I know the purpose of the verbal updates. Was you there's a lot of details in the packet, then um.

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Cob, dan burke:, but if you have any questions on what we covered, either verbally or in the presentation, or anything, that's in the memo.

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Cob, dan burke:, you know, be happy to entertain any questions. You may have.

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Curt brown, osbt: a date.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: field.

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dave, kuntz, osbt:, looking for you on the screen. Thanks for that, I have a question.

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Phillip yates, cob: to serve well.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, there's some examples: of.

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dave, kuntz,, osbt:, oh yeah, kind of contexts, or you know ways that being envision. You know to utilize the acknowledgments.

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Phillip yates, cob: yeah, so just very preliminary, as we think about this is kind of overthinking is a short statement for consistency. That's short and we can build on and then we're also anticipating is a longer statement that can live on the web page,. So we tell a broader and fuller.

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Phillip yates, cob: overview, and so right now is that's kind of where we're at and looking at it right now,. But as we move forward, there could be different ways that we could do this, where there have been some ideas floated where maybe there's a slide that people could reflect on questions or.

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Phillip yates, cob: yeah,, so I think right now what we're looking at there's several. We have several examples: we've looked at the city of denver city, denver has one.

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Phillip yates, cob: university of colorado has one,, but I think, what's really unique and kind of very powerful, for what we can do here is that we're actually going to be seeking input from tribal nations.

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Phillip yates, cob: on particularly how they see it can be used with respect and honor. So it can certainly happen at a meeting.

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Phillip yates, cob: or on web pages email signatures,. So what we'd like to do is presented a series of options or what it looks like what it could look. Like.

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Phillip yates, cob: and have them provide feedback. One thing that's important for us to as we go through, it's really done with honor and respect.

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Phillip yates, cob:, and it's not looking like this- is just what the city wants to do and that's what we're going to do. So,. We were very intended on being open and to have an opportunity for collaboration and what that looks. Like.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. Are we doing some preliminary thinking about the possible.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: interpretive signing on open space system that will include.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: some kind of information.

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Phillip yates, cob:, I think that's an important step, as we move further on and consultations moving forward.

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Phillip yates, cob:, as we reflect on what happened during the consultation, I think, education and commemoration on the lands and important topic.

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Phillip yates, cob:, and as we move forward on that, that is probably something I think could be potential topics of future consultations,. But it definitely is a key priority as we think about how we commemorate it and provide education on the land.

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Cob, dan burke:, if I could just follow up with that, just something that, in the new draft mo that some tribal representatives and see staff representatives put together to sort of see the conversation for the next consultation.

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Cob, dan burke: there's a little bit more robust language about wanting to get more tribal expertise at the table for educational type, of.

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Cob, dan burke: conclude signage, but we're going to have a couple of specific projects coming up,. I think that are going to get our feet wet and that one is the four chambers for foreign property, which I would I would expect.

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Cob, dan burke:, signage or commemoration of some sort is probably most likely going to come up and then also the name change of settlers.

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Cob, dan burke: park is that will need to be signed, and then going beyond one sign. There's a lot of interpretation already going on out there.

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Cob, dan burke:, and how much of that we ought to look at to either be replaced or modified or, and so we're going to be relying on tribal input for those specific projects. We already know about.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: great it could get. Is there a possibility that you can get to the board that some of that draft.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: revised language before the meetings so that we could have kind of a sense of kind of what you've been working. On.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, absolutely yeah, it'd, be a part of a full packet I'd. Imagine that we would put out so absolutely did great thanks.

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Curt brown,, osbt:, aaron and then help.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I really want to thank dan and phil for following through on this tom, and I represented the board at the last consultation in.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and karen hollweg, osbt:. I think it's really important for you to do as you have done to keep moving the work. Forward.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: at the last.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, what is it? Called.?

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, the october.

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karen hollweg, osbt: indigenous people, stay in 29 teen. So right? Yes, um I worked with the audubon society and a csu native faculty member.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: to to create a field trip that was hosted in conjunction with indigenous peoples day and we had.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, all we offered two separate sessions and all the slots were filled in both a field trip,. The reason why I mentioned, it is,. I found that the field trip and the.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, what the the representative from a native tribe from see a shoe said, as she led that field trip.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: to be an excellent way both to get outside of the room where the indigenous peoples day activities were going on on to open space. Land.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and to hear from her what the land means to her people and um and to native peoples in general, and I thought it conveyed the kind of cultural and spiritual importance of land, the lands here that are now in open space. Management.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: very well, as phil referred to, and when I think about and read the the.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: efforts on these acknowledgement seems, I think, the history colorado version and the colorado state university version were very much in keeping with what I learned.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: from the native leader on the field, trip.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: about the cultural and spiritual importance of the land and the other thing about the history, colorado and csu versions,. That I think are really critical. Is that that we're partners and that we.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: consult with and work with them in doing the following things in our open space system,, and I think that kind of wording is really a significant part of the acknowledgement that that I'll be looking for,. But before I end,, I just wanted to ask if it might be possible for christian or.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, another staff member,- maybe it's phil- maybe it's christian- to set up that kind of field trip for the the next indigenous peoples day, celebration,, so that we can continue to have an open space element of that celebration.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: with a native perspective on the land,, because I think it's really important both for the idea of the indigenous peoples day for the people of boulder and for our working relationship with the tribes.

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Phillip yates, cob:, that's a thank you for sharing that and that's definitely an idea. We can share with clay fong who helps to put on indigenous peoples day celebration events and that's definitely something that we want to echo and share with him. Absolutely.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: play we're very supportive of the arranging and in providing the resources for that last field. Trip.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and so. karen hollweg, osbt:. They both know what we did, and how we did it,. I have, I have the documents that we drafted in the process of organizing and and producing it,. So if you need any of those.

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Phillip yates, cob:: can you share that with me if possible.

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Phillip yates, cob: sure that'd be great.

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Curt brown, osbt: hell. hal hallstein osbt: yeah. My question has two parts,. I think the first might be for dan and maybe the second more for christian dan. I in reading the original memoranda are all of them, signed by the 13 tribes each or has there been an evolution, to the groups who have been official signatories.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, sets.

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Cob, dan burke: him to answer it and christian and phil you could correct me,. I believe that the signatories have remained consistent.

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Cob, dan burke:, but as part of I don't know, if we're going to have time at this consultation,, but certainly hot.,.

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Cob, dan burke:, we actually had more than just the signatories, participate at the last consultation,. I believe two or three other tribal nations joined us.

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Cob, dan burke: for that consultation, so we're expecting that if more than the original 13 join us at future consultation, that they'll also want to be signatories to new, the new agreement. So.

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Cob, dan burke: how to.

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cob, dan burke:, I believe we have a very short clause in the new draft about how a new a new tribe would come to the table and and be able to participate and sign on to an agreement,. So we fully anticipate.

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Cob, dan burke:- I wouldn't call it an issue,, but we fully anticipate that the need to address that and the mo you is going to address it very briefly on how it's done.

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Cob, dan burke:, but I would expect the next agreement that we could be,. We could have up to 16 tribes that actually signed on to that. I don't know christian if you have anything to add.

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Christian driver, cob: yeah, as as a little bit of added context, when we have reached out to tribal nations.

K

Christian driver, cob: to ask for them to participate and consultations with the city,. One thing that we always make sure to do is is to ask if there are any other tribal nations that.

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Christian driver,, cob: previous representatives or previous signatories feel should be included in in the conversations and and like dan said,. We have had the addition of several drives since we started asking that question.

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Hal hallstein, osbt: great and then the other questions related christian.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, you know, as we work on some of these. Let's just call them higher level goals. We have some specific resources,, whether they be you know, artifacts, etc. What is,, how are we determine? Do we have a system or way of determining giving.

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Hal hallstein osbt: us basically special voice on certain osm p projects to those tribes, which have unique nexus to that resource. Does that question, make any sense.

K

Christian driver, cob: yes, yes,. I think I think I get your meeting. um You know I wouldn't say that we necessarily have an established procedure or way of determining that.

K

Christian driver,, cob: and that's, I think,, partly due to the fact that a lot of the cultural resources that we have at this particular moment based on.

K

Christian driver, cob: the knowledge that we have from previous recordings or previous work done with those resources is, to my knowledge,. At this point we don't have anything that can be tied to a particular tribe.

K

Christian driver, cob: at this moment, and that's why ongoing relationship building and future conversations are so important. Because, frankly, we just do not have that expertise.

K

Christian driver, cob: that the city, right now,, you know we're we're talking about cultural resources are asked. What have you that to our our minds through through our, I suppose, societal lens? You know: don't have much.

K

Christian driver, cob:, you can't be attributed, whereas you know if we build these relationships with tribal nations. Talk to the people that have the knowledge, you know, bring them out to cultural resources that that sort, of.

K

Christian driver, cob: information and kind of come through those interactions,, but it is,. It is certainly not something that I would claim that I'm able to do right now, just based on the information.

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Cob, dan burke:, now just a. cob, dan burke: little a little follow up to that. So one of the original agreements was focused on jewel mountain,, knowing that that that's a sight of importance to tribes, and so.

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Cob, dan burke: there's actually stipulations than that that if we were before we commence on any activities such as trail building or any any, I mean we don't do development,, but any type of just elements out there, that that agreement, specifically recognizes that that's probably an important.

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Cob, dan burke: piece of land for tribal interests, in that we ought to provide them an opportunity.

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Cob, dan burke: to know about any upcoming projects like that,, and so that's a specific property that we that has a specific sort. Of.

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Cob, dan burke: agreement around belmont view, we went through a number of discussions over a period of about a decade with them,, knowing that that was a significant property for them, and, of course it's it's a site. That's got a lot of issues to it, so working with them on that particular.

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Cob, dan burke: the. cob, dan burke:. We delighted to do the big list conversation earlier in february about you, know, a need to do a certain planning efforts and one is, is to develop a cultural resource management plan is something we haven't had and that's christians, going to be. The lead.

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Cob, dan burke: project manager for that for that site for that project, there could be elements of the culture resources management plan that begins to maybe formalize what that process would be to.

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Cob, dan burke: how to provide more information to tribes, and to get that exchange of information on on sites that may be important to them, features that may be important to them and we're looking for the culture resources management plan as a potential.

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Cob, dan burke: tool or document that could provide some more meat to that question. How and more specificity to it.

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Hal hallstein osbt: thank you., dave, kuntz,, osbt:, in,, though.

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dave, kuntz, osbt:, the department is still doing are requesting travel assistance for certain site reviews and we.

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Christian driver, cob: owe it right, now, technically, the way that the agreements are written right now. The only one that will be specifically requesting for would be jewel mountain. There have been site review,. There have been reviews that were conducted in the past.

K

Christian driver, cob:, but that is that's not something that we are currently doing, because we did not have those established relationships with tribal nations,. The other aspect of this was that the early.

K

Christian driver, cob:, the earlier agreements,, the tribes came together in the united tribes to colorado and and that group designated a specific tribal monitor, however,, the united tribes of colorado, as.

K

Christian driver, cob: organization, institution,, whatever you want to call it- is now.

K

Christian driver, cob: defunct, so essentially, what we're dealing with right now are is each tribe on an individual, basis, and so, from the perspective of having those those types of reviews, um.

K

Christian driver, cob: you know, like if we were to be asking that, like let's say we did do something at jewel mountain, we will be reaching out to each individual tribe.

K

Christian driver, cob: individually, to hear their perspectives,. I think that you know we're hoping that the mo you can create a framework kind of like the old framework. Where is there was agreement on who.

K

Christian driver, cob:, who was the person that the tribes might agree on that, would be qualified to offer that type of service to the city,, but I think yeah. If anything happened at jewel mountain, we would just have to reach out individually and go from there.

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Dave kuntz,, osbt: yeah, the earlier arrangement is what I'm remembering as far as.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: in the designation of a travel monitor,, for you know you know specific projects or reviews and.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, I think getting back to the cultural resources management plan, effort that be well worth. You know getting that done and kind of resurrecting the some. You know element that that can enable us to do that.

K

Christian driver, cob: exactly and that's and that's something that you know even the tribes voice at the 2019 consultation that they that many representatives did voice that they didn't want to be involved at that level. Great.

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Curt brown, osbt: other questions or comments.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: real, quick questions just on the memo language or questions. You know I don't know who I should address this to filler are.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: on page five right under of the paragraph, under the land, acknowledgement guidance.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: heading. It says it refers to the us department of culture.

D

Dave kuntz, osbt: yes,. I have never heard of that.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah. What is that.

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Phillip yates, cob: is a grassroot. I think I had put it in that it needs specifically call themselves. A grassroots organization should not be as far as I know.

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Phillip yates, cob: with a us government agency,, but it is a group that is, has put out great guidance on land acknowledgments and,. As far as another grassroot organization. That does looks to communicate about the importance of this.

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Phillip yates, cob:, but yeah I'll, leave it at that. That's it's a grassroots organization, to the best of my knowledge,, but they have provided great guidance on land acknowledgments.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: well,. I saw the explanation.

F

dave kuntz, osbt:, but the title.

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dave kuntz, osbt: yeah. It's perplexing because it's not an official government entity is that correct.

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Phillip yates, cob: as far as I know,, but I do want to support that they provide a great guidance yeah. I think your interpretation is right,, but also respect that they provide a good guidance yep.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah: we might we might, in addition to the explanation,, want to put it non governmental, right, grassroots. You know in front of that so that it's pretty clear on what.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: circle, what.

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Dave kuntz,, osbt: and then down at the last line in that page.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: in the last bullet. It says, opening up spaces with reverence and respect, and I'm just wondering what is exactly meant.

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Phillip yates, cob: right,, I think there's a lot- is creating an opportunity for people to reflect that. It's not performative.

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Phillip yates, cob:, and that we do honor the the history and the the deep relationship that indigenous people have with the land, and so it's it's coming from a place. Of.

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Phillip yates, cob: of respect and honor and- and I think too is like putting people in the place for us to reflect on the past and think about moving forward.

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Phillip yates, cob:- I don't want to over interpret their their guidance,, but maybe that could be different for other people,, but it's always important,. I think, to remember something like that.

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Cob, dan burke: dave. Are you trying to refer, whether or not we're talking about physical spaces or.

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Phillip yates, cob:, whatever yeah. cob, dan burke: yeah the wording for like the mental headspace.

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Phillip yates, cob:, more mental health space,. I think yeah.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah, so the word spaces, I think, is the kind of the nano.

F

Dave kuntz,, osbt: and so, can. Can we kind of.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: be more specific, or we will clear on what exactly that refers. To.

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Phillip yates, cob:, can you just read it again? I just don't have the memo right in front of me.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, I gotta, fill but.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: it. You said the bullet justice, take a cue from indigenous protocols, opening up spaces with reverence and respect.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: and so. phillip yates, cob:, mike yeah. dave kuntz, osbt:. What is spaces actually mean.

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Phillip yates, cob:, I think, that's to dan's point. It's that.

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Phillip yates, cob: mental kind of space that we have together and we communicate together. I'm not thinking it's the way I interpret it and I think it's I'd. Leave it open to interpretation from other folks. Is that way that we speak with each other in that context and space that we can work together.

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Cob, dan burke: well,, I guess the question would be. Is this taking verbatim from the department of cultures.

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Phillip yates, cob: it's taken verbatim and I yeah I mean they're probably could have been a quote around. It was taking verbatim okay.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: well,. We might want to add a brief clarification or or.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: explanation or something so that.

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dave, kuntz, osbt:. I think people can kind of get a better sense of what actually, that means.

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Phillip yates, cob:, that's fine., phillip yates,, cob: yeah. Thank you. Yeah. thanks.

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Curt brown, osbt: phil. I noticed that they refer to themselves as the us department of arts and culture.

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Phillip yates, cob: right.

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Phillip yates, cob: to make some updates. phillip yates, cob: no. phillip yates, cob: no,. This is a I think over a course. A period of time is was collecting best practices and guidance from a multitude of organizations,, and this is one that has been shared frequently amongst staff.

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Phillip yates, cob: and among several folks, that's well respected., phillip, yates, cob: and one that I think we want to take to heart. Yeah.

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Curt brown, osbt: anything else: dave. dave, kuntz,, osbt: no,, that was it thanks. curt, brown,, osbt: okay,. You bet anyone else on this topic.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,, then we'll kick it back to you, dan.

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Cob, dan burke: remember,. I really appreciate that conversation.

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Cob, dan burke:, it's really an honor to work in this space, I think, christian and will attest that.

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Cob, dan burke:, when I first, this, is my first experience working with you, know american indian nations and and indigenous peoples in this type of context- and I never you know, thought I'd have this opportunity. So it's it's great to be able to have this discussion board and we look forward. To.

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Cob, dan burke: upcoming consultation and keep you guys informed and involved so.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: dan, that at the last in person consultation, only one member of the open space board of trustees was allowed at a time. I'm gathering from what you've said that for the zoom consultation,, all of us might be able to be part of that, is that correct.

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Cob, dan burke:, I purposely- did not state any specific, because we haven't had a chance to regroup and get our consultant involved and saying.

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Cob, dan burke:, what we do know is that, from the tribal perspective is that these negotiations are typically closed door because they're negotiations between governments, so we're going to have.

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Cob, dan burke:, a virtual spaces, do to us,. So I think that's the topics that we're going to have to address later this week and get earnest house involved to kind of.

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Cob, dan burke: figure out exactly what the setup is going to be. What's the participant level like and that's one of the areas where we know we have to get back to you, on.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: all right,. I just want to second what you said about how.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: what a new experience and how inspirational the last consultation was to me and the opportunity to be involved in it,. So I would encourage board members to the degree that we can to participate inside. I think it's a really useful thing to make time for yeah.

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Cob, dan burke: and if it turns out that what that role is and and how it gets defined, I'll, probably reach out and work with how and trying to coordinate what that may look like from a board perspective. So.

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Cob, dan burke: we're, depending on what time we're talking right april, 1 or march 31.

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Cob, dan burke:, okay, I'm just a couple of verbal announcements before we get into the heart of the tonight's discussion- is just want to do.

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Cob, dan burke: to to a couple of opportunities, there's the new. What we typically would call the new board member orientation.

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Cob, dan burke:. We know that the same as a group of city staff have gotten together to do sort of a fresh look at orientation and they're, adding some several more several new elements to the orientation. And so, while you know.

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Cob, dan burke:, historically, it's been a new member orientation and invite, I think, is going to go out to all indian all trustees, including whether you're the new freshmen on the block.

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Cob, dan burke:, let you know that on march 30 from six to 9pm, I think that might be a tues tuesday night.

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Cob, dan burke: but march 30 is the first opportunity, the same meeting,, but a second opportunity is going to be on a saturday on april 10,. So I will make sure.

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Cob, dan burke: that you all get an invite for that and, of course,. The new trustee will hopefully be able to join one of those two meetings,. I also wanted to alert you all and I already gave our.

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Cob, dan burke: heads up but they're, going to add a second type of orientation. That's going to be specifically for board chimps.

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Cob, dan burke:, I'm just recognizing that sometimes a board chair comes on and they've never had experience with running the meeting. Or.

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Cob, dan burke: facilitating a meeting and that it would be super helpful. What we heard feedback wise is super helpful to have a specific orientation for chairs.

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Cob, dan burke: so we're testing that will be later in the spring,. We don't have a date for that yet,, but as soon as I hear it I'll make sure I pass that on to you.

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Cob, dan burke: and I just wanted to also just alert you,. You know app changes, when you have an organization. This large is is pretty much a constant thing, but occasionally there there happens to be a.

G

Cob, dan burke:, our retirement, that sort of deserve special recognition, and I just want to let you know that, a few weeks ago, lori dieter from our vegetation management program, retired after 30 years of service.

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Cob, dan burke:, with open space on park said so we had a little goodbye celebration for for lori,, but I just thought the board want to know. Some of you may have worked with lori over the years and, of course,. She her latest is the tall grass.

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Cob, dan burke: project.

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cob, dan burke: in the back of the shanahan rich,. That was a very passionate project for her, and I think put that put that issue on the map for a lot of people and a lot of citizens. So.

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Cob, dan burke: just wanted to let you know about lori's retirement from the system and an april. I expect to be able to announce another retire,, but I will hold off on that one because hey, it's always good to have fresh news at a board. Meeting.

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Cob, dan burke:, so with that kurt, I think over to you to move us into the.

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Cob, dan burke: section.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah. So as we discussed how on you and I,, we moved all of the topics related to see us out manifestation. Together.

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Curt brown, osbt: under matters on the board,, largely because they derived from the study session that the board had on those issues,. So this is a place for for that discussion,. But let me ask you, first that dan is there, new information on the timeline that you want to update us on as a context.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, you know before before the study session. I just alerted you that we did set up a brief time for phil chrysler senior planner city bowler, to.

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Cob, dan burke: to present you all, with the 2021 time frame for certain milestones,, and so I asked phil if we could just carry on with that. Just to make sure we have a you know the same level of knowledge amongst the trustees about. What's what's coming down the pike, I did not go into this level.

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Cob, dan burke:, when I presented you verbally some of the highlights,, I think I focus mainly on open space. Mountain parks, so.

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Cob, dan burke: phil is going to join us, or has joined us here and give you a few minutes of overview of the calendar,. As we know it now and realizing that it's fluid.

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Cob, dan burke: and that,, if you have any specific questions about the milestones and the touches that we see things right now and 2021, that's so good to me. Not.

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Cob, dan burke: to ask phil and then I think, phil is planning to stick around during boards discussion next discussion, and if you have any questions that may be.

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Cob, dan burke: shed some light on to so. cob, dan burke: he'll join us free remainder of the night.

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Curt brown, osbt:, so we all, thank you for ruining another one that your nights.

A

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phil kleisler (cob):, I wouldn't worry.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, if you'd like, if it's, if it's okay with with the board,, I could share my screen and maybe just go through some of the day.

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L

phil, kleisler (cob):, so phil chrysler. I worked at dinner in the planning and development services department and really appreciate you letting me visit with me and you can see that slide. Okay.

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Curt brown, osbt: yes. phil, kleisler (cob):, I mean perfect, oh yeah. um I talked the other day for a few minutes before someone,. Let me know that they couldn't see anything so.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, it's always good to check. I have just a few things that I kind of a high level, and then a more tactical view of what to expect in the coming months,, and so you know this board is well aware that there are two.

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Phil kleisler (cob): kind of two projects as part of this kind of super project that are both dependent on one another happening concurrently and have have different.

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Phil kleisler (cob): timelines, and so that's that would be the flood mitigation project. My major milestones shown here on the black line currently and brandon coleman is on the call tonight as well, in case.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, you have any questions for him,, but his team of city staff consultants are working through the preliminary design.

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Phil kleisler (cob): through this year and then concurrently we are working on the sea of south annexation, so the application was actually submitted in early 2019.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, and so we are working on the terms now and we'll get into some more dates in just a second,. But we would anticipate a vote.

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Phil kleisler (cob): by council later this year in the fall and then, following that annexation decision on, depending on what that is,, we would see design permitting and ultimately, construction by 2026.

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Phil kleisler (cob): of the flood mitigation project think you've probably seen this diagram before the I would say that top and the bottom rows are pretty standard process in our development. Review.

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Phil kleisler (cob): process very annotations, but really leading into that some middle. The university's application being submitted.

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Phil kleisler (cob): council held a study session and recognize that this particular project,. There were a lot of complexities, a lot of moving parts and as such, they wanted to make sure there was ample time.

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Phil kleisler (cob): for not only community input, but also, and very much emphasized by council board input, and so these discussions, we see as really valuable and helpful.

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Phil kleisler (cob): in this process,, and so after going back and forth a few times on the written comments, that's the top row, and that was memorial sue, the term sheet which which your you would discussed at your study session a couple of weeks ago, we.

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Phil kleisler (cob): process to select a flood mitigation option last summer and following that we worked with our process committee who's comprised of two council members.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, who holds a public meeting each month and we went and developed a community engagement plan. We developed a briefing book that you all talked about last month, or I believe that was last month. Now.

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Curt brown, osbt: and brought all that. phil kleisler (cob): information to the council for discussion last year and we're kind of now in the middle of this community engagement process. Where we're hearing about some of the.

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Phil kleisler (cob): interest and concerns and trying to really get an understanding about what the community is and some of these issues.

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Phil kleisler (cob): and then we'll be presenting that this is a little bit out of date. I just pulled up an indication with council in april.

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Phil kleisler (cob): and, depending on that direction,, we would negotiate the remaining terms of the agreement and release a draft annexation. Agreement.

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Phil kleisler (cob): to the community ahead of time, and and there would be a period where, where folks could comment, and we would go into the more traditional and standard planning board public hearing with a recommendation. Console.

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Phil kleisler (cob): to look at a more tactical level,. This is just a kind of a running list of the different key dates that we should our process committee. Every month.

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Phil kleisler, (cob):, and so the great out date are just ones that have already taken place. We've had a lot of really interesting. You know neighborhood meeting meetings with groups that is frazier meadows, safe, south boulder, a great meeting.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, just about a week or so ago, with the south creek, seven neighborhood and now we're here with you this evening and march 10.

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Phil kleisler (cob): do we. We are anticipating. We had to move our monthly process committee meeting from march 19 to the 18th of this month and the process committee for those underwear, is.

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Phil kleisler (cob): was created a year, or a year and a half ago, and it's comprised of two council members that really guide staff on on what what is the process,. So it stays out of content as best we can.

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Phil kleisler (cob): and really looks at the public process and the sequencing of boards and councils discussions,, and so one we are looking at.

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Phil kleisler (cob): scheduling in a community briefing in early april once some of the materials and we're able to kind of have pen to paper and have materials and memos written for the transportation, advisory board and april.

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Phil kleisler (cob): the planning board, I'm april 15 and then finally city council. The city council meeting, is really this. This this bubble here in that flow chart where.

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Phil kleisler (cob): we're going to be bringing the themes from this engagement. What we're hearing from the community? What we're hearing from boards and and.

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Phil kleisler (cob): basically, get a temperature check to make sure that we're heading in the right direction, and if we're stuck, if we're in disagreement with the university on anything, will be flagging. Those for some counsel direction on how to handle those.

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Phil kleisler (cob):. We have several other dates and to not go too far into the details here I would want to just really flag, a few of these, and this would be.

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Phil kleisler (cob): right now we're penciling in june 17 as a public hearing before the planning board,. This would be.

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Phil kleisler (cob): the formal process where they would hold a public hearing and provide a recommendation of approval or denial to city. Council.-.

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Phil kleisler (cob): city council would have this generally on their first on their consent agenda on july 20 for a first reading.

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Phil kleisler (cob): and then in late august,, possibly a second, a special meeting for the city council second reading and that might also.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, be, you know, divided into two meetings,, given the interest in the community, and what we would likely see in public comment,, the length of public comment and so.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, that's pretty far out there,, and so I would say the planning board council meetings in the summer late summer and fall our tentative and they are penciled in just for the purpose of having a scheduled,. So the agenda doesn't get to.

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Curt brown, osbt: build out, but great. Thank you. Phil.

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Curt brown, osbt: and you know all say,, as I asked a question, it. Certainly what you make clear is that the board's input to.

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Curt brown, osbt: the annexation discussions is very timely,, so I appreciate the board members who pushed for a study session and late february,. I think this is good timing, so questions for phil, I see house him.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, yeah, hey phil, thanks for joining us tonight and dave, and I have been sort of assigned to do some thinking about the timeline and I'm sure dave has some some other comments to make to,. But one thing we agreed on that we were a little confused, about.

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Hal hallstein osbt: is given that the flood project is the life and safety project,, which was the original impetus for opening this door.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, and it's interesting that we have such an aggressive timeline on annexation and what appears to be a somewhat casual timeline on the life and safety issues,. Can you help us understand what that decision making is about.

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Phil kleisler (cob): well,, I you know I would invite brandon to to weigh in on the timeline for flood mitigation. The sense I get is that it's not it's not casual that the team is moving pretty quickly on that and with the annexation.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, you know,, we we've had it in the in the queue now for two years and and so we're just kind of working through the process. When I said it's tentative later in the year for planning board and council,, we have to. We wanted to have something there so that folks, could.

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Phil kleisler (cob): plan for what what what this project project looks like and so those those are definitely could change that brandon. I see you're on to.

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Phil kleisler, (cob): and muted.

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Phil kleisler, (cob): and so brandon it might be helpful, under the.

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Phil kleisler (cob): microphone. If you click the arrow, you can select your headphones.

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Cob, dan burke: and all this leah and allison- I don't know if I mentioned that brandon may be on,, so perhaps he's not.

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Cob, dan burke:, maybe might have to physically on unmute him.

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Alison ecklund, cob:, let me check,, I thought.

B

alison ecklund, cob:. I thought he was a co host, nope here.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: keep talking brandon you're, doing great.

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alison ecklund,, cob:, yeah okay.

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Cob brandon coleman: sounds better if I just stayed the whole time.

M

Cob brandon coleman: yes, thanks,, thanks to the board for letting me be here,. I just wanted to kind of you know, the annexation in the flood are.

M

Cob brandon coleman: pretty closely tied,, as you mentioned house. Oh, it's just wanted to be available to answer questions as well, and I think.

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Cob brandon coleman:. As the board's aware, we've been working on the flood design,, probably as quickly as we can, and as phil mentioned,. We we just got through our conceptual design analysis and just recently in february, we kind of got.

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Cob brandon coleman: the approval,, with a flood design to move ahead without other alternatives on the table,. So we have been doing some of the preliminary work.

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Cob brandon coleman: for the flood design that we're working on now,, but now we're really starting into the design in earnest, and that's that's where a lot of those milestones come from for the flood mitigation design, they're based on the design activities with each of those components.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, I guess I regret my use of the word, casual that was partly chosen word. I know that people are working very hard on this.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, my point is,, is that the the annexation is very complex and later this evening, we'll be discussing some of this boards interest in the annexation, and I just hope that people understand the timeline as presented sets up a potential situation where there is annexation and no.

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Hal hallstein, osbt:, no immediate path to flood mitigation, and so I just think people should think about that and sit with them ponder that closely.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: in just. Let me add to what how said that brandon and phil. You know. I think the boards concern is that we really we probably as much as any other city entity, can't divorce.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: those two projects in our minds: they're, you know they're, intimately, related, and so the timing of one or the other, certainly affects you know the concerns that we have and- and I think some of the commitments.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: that we are either hopeful, anticipating or expecting as part of of those decisions.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: you know,, can sometimes get.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: awry, and I think it's a big concern for us that we be as clear as we can, as a city on what it is that we need when it is that we need it and who it is. That's going to provide it.

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Curt brown, osbt: other thoughts or questions,, particularly on the timeline for either phil or brandon, and we really do appreciate you both being here. Tonight.

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Curt brown, osbt: karen.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: hey,. Let me just underscore what how and dave have said and maybe say it in a little bit of a different way.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, because I'd really like to hear from phil and brandon why our concerns should not be great grave, concerns.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: the reason why I think how and dave have brought up a really important issue is because,, based on the schedule that that phil has just reviewed.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, it appears that the city council will have made decisions on the annexation.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: by late august and yet osb t has been told that well don't worry about really overthinking the flood control issue because it'll be the fall before we come back to you with a 30% design.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, so it seems to me that those two schedules are really out of sync.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, and I would agree with what dave said that to us, those two decisions are really intertwined and to have one come months before the other, even gears up to the point that you want to hear from us at the 30% design period, is.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: out of sync,, as I see it.,.

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Curt brown,, osbt: and karen. I would just add that I think your desire and other board members desires to have the study session was.

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Curt brown, osbt: an effort to deal with the fact that they seemed out of sync to make sure that we were not waiting for the 30% side to give our thoughts on the annexation and how they might be connected..

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Dave kuntz,, osbt: yeah and I think that's the reason, as we, as we move into kind of the next conversation on on. You know articulating some of our specific concerns on annexation.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: that we thought that that we should do that as soon as possible, so that you know it's pretty clear on kind of where the board as entities stands on on some of those issues.

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Cob, dan burke:- I just want to clarify to that our original timing,. You know, I think, how you are reading my face when you guys are talking about a study session.

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Cob, dan burke: in two weeks from now, and the reason being is we had we had what you all did at the study session, and tonight we had that penciled in for april, so wasn't like we were going to skip the board,. We just.

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Cob, dan burke: we're just going to do a the city staff was going to take an april on full tilt and go to a couple of different boards,, including this one,. So in hindsight, I think you did city staff, a favor her in which we divvied up you divvied up some of that work. But.

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Cob, dan burke: we were, we were. We did pencil in march to go over this and then april, to do the annexation, so the board obviously crafted out a little bit of a different path which in hindsight, I think, is working out great so.

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Cob brandon coleman:. I guess I might be able to help answer karen's question a little bit. I guess.

M

Cob brandon coleman:, so the board's concerns. cob brandon coleman:. I think the board has articulated a lot of concerns with the flood mitigation project and we've taken.

M

Cob brandon coleman:, those with our design criteria,. Groundwater is a really good example. So we're doing a pretty robust groundwater model right, now.

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Cob brandon coleman: in response to the board's concerns,. We also, if just recently, when the when the project moved on to open space property, and there was a quest for the upstream analysis,, we did work on that.

M

Cob brandon coleman: most recently,, so I would say the board's past numerous motions, and I think they've passed them at good times and we've. We have been incorporating that into the design criteria and.

M

Cob brandon coleman: the schedule tries to reflect when the design is at a level that will be able to answer questions related to those existing motions.

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Hal hallstein osbt: yeah. I appreciate that brandon, I think, to clarify and, I imagine, I can speak for most our critique. Isn't that that you're part of the project isn't moving fast enough. It's more of concerns, about.

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Hal hallstein osbt: what appears like an acceleration of the annexation side. We understand your project is highly complex, with a lot of work to do.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, it's it's really the other side of the variable sure.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, other questions or comments for filler brandon about the timeline.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: or dad you have anything else you want to cover as context here before we move into our boards of considerations.

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Cob, dan burke: no,, no okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt: all right,. Well again, thanks to fell and brandon for being here and you may have more comments, for us, or we may have more questions for you, as we, as we proceed.

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Curt brown, osbt: karen do you want to lead out,? I mean,. I think your motion is based on a lot of the issues that came up during the study session and I think what you've tried to do. Is.

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Curt brown, osbt: is craft,, something that addresses all of those concerns, as our feedback to both staff and to counsel..

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Karen hollweg, osbt: right., karen hollweg, osbt:, my guess is the board members recall that at the end of the study session we talked about so what's next and kurt, and I were tasked with the responsibility to go back and review all the notes and try to put.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: all the things that we had discussed at the study session into a.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: draft motion and.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, we as,, as I indicated at the end of the study session. Oh my gosh, that's next week,, and so we did finish our draft.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: this weekend and on monday leah, sent it out to everybody and posted it on the website, so that the public also could see.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: the draft I'm,, the only thing that I want to mention is, at the end of each paragraph, we've added the term sheet numbers that refer to relevant items in the term sheet,. Some of them are more directly and some of them are less directly addressing the issues.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, but they're in in one way or another,, relevant.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and it's my hope that we can go through this and entertain revisions, suggestions for alternative wording, or whatever suggestions you have having had a couple of days to look at it and work with it. Yourselves.

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Curt brown, osbt:, and I would propose that we do that by sections karen, I think, would take. The introduction is the first and then the rest of the topics have headers. So those are fairly easy to organize. Caroline, you got a question or thought.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: can I just asked all board members: have the term sheet available to them right, now.,.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it was in the packet that we got for the study, session.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:- I just want to make sure that everyone has it in front of them. So.

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Caroline miller, osbt: robert said it's close by.

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Curt brown, osbt: let's. curt brown, osbt: see,. I know I do others.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I saw have at least access to it.

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Caroline miller, osbt: karen, you have yours term sheet around..

N

I do yeah and then dave do you.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah, so we all do.

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Curt brown, osbt: thank you, caroline,. It is a foundational document.

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Curt brown, osbt:. Well, karen, do you want to entertain of comments or proposed amendments? To.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, your introduction.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: go ahead and share us through this current issue. You're doing that'd be great.

A

Okay. curt brown,, osbt: well,. I think everyone ben has a copy of the motion that karen and I put together.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I'm hoping you do, and the public to can get it off of our meeting website if they haven't already.

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Curt brown, osbt:: this is a pretty lengthy motion,, but there were a lot of issues to cover, and so the first two paragraphs really are just trying to describe.

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Curt brown, osbt: what this is about, why we're doing it and who it's for? Does anyone have and I'm not going to get into reading things unless there are changes and then, of course.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, once we've made all the changes, we will then entertain a full motion. Reading the whole motion and putting it on the table,, but I see house hand to start with how.

C

You know. karen hollweg, osbt: whether we want to have the document up on the shared screen. I don't know whether that helps or not.

C

Hal hallstein osbt:, I think.

J

Cob leah case: steve, I'm happy to share it, kurt. If that's helpful. I know it's harder,. You have to use if you want the document or people,, but I can share it or just types. Whatever.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I think what will. curt brown, osbt: excuse me,. I think what we'll do leah is,. We will share it when someone has proposed wording, changes, and that might start right now with how so.

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Hal hallstein osbt: I'll go ahead and it's not so much a wording change before we even talk about the introduction,, given that the motion is divided into, I think it's six different parts, I'm wondering,, do we want to establish a title for this motion.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I mean a big part of how I see it. hal hallstein, osbt: conceptually. This is os bt considerations of business,, specifically in the annexation negotiation,, which is a different thing than pre existing flood mitigation motions and basically just wondering if we be doing people a favor to add a title.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah, that's a good thought. Um.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, do you have any specific wording that you want to suggest how.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I would go with something like oh spt recommendations regarding open space business in the cu south annexation.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: business, maybe the wrong word: but.

A

Curt brown, osbt: these are,. I think your wordings very close help. These are our recommendations to counsel really, because that's who we provide recommendations to to counsel regarding see you south annexation.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, that's the shortest.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: regarding the terms of the ceo south annexation.

A

Curt brown, osbt: right right, yeah., curt, brown,, osbt:, so osb key recommendations to council regarding the terms of the ceo, south, annexation.

A

Curt brown, osbt: leah. Do you have that.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, good good cash hello,. Thank you. Any other recommended changes to the introduction.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: and so leah in the final motion, all that all that stuff at the beginning, would go away and you I'm sure you understand that um.

A

Curt brown, osbt: any other changes to the introductory material.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: do we want to the the statement? That's in brackets, just so that people know what the numbers are.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yes,. That's a very good point karen. I think you should keep that after the title: leah, the parent tactical, the numbers in brackets refer to,, etc.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,. If you get a hand up.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah kurt. I was just going to suggest that you know we refer to variant one in several places in the introduction, and it just strikes me that.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. We ought to preface that or associate that with the city's proposed flood mitigation project or something so that it's clear to not only the council but to the public.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, it's a good point. We use that as a shorthand so.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, why don't we say the variant one south, boulder, creek flood control, project.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, yeah yeah, something like that'd, be fine., curt, brown,, osbt:, okay,, so leah that was.

A

Curt brown, osbt: describing mitigation for the variant one south, boulder creek flood control, project.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: and then thereafter,. I think we can just refer to as variant one.

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Curt brown,, osbt: good catch dave anything else on the introductory material.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I had one more thought karen, the part of the note in the parentheses,, since those don't again down until the sub sections,. Should we move that down below the introductory paragraph and just before the next sections I feel like at the top you're kind of like what does that.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, just positionally does that make sense.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: here, or we could put an asterisk as after the brackets, the first time they occur and put a footnote. That says. The numbers in brackets referred to term sheet numbers in the 2020 briefing book that are relevant yeah.

D

Curt brown, osbt: yeah, I think it's.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I think it's a good idea to move it. How so.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, leah., hal hallstein osbt:. Can we do,? Can we take that that.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: upper part in brackets and remove the word at the beginning and just create a footnote out of it. That comes after each parentheses. Series of numbers in the segments below.

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Cob leah case: that just for the sake of time, I'm making myself a note, but that'll be a part of it. When we send to them.

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Hal hallstein osbt:. Thank you very much..

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah, it's a really good idea. dave, kuntz, osbt: thank you,. We another another question that organizationally can we put some space between the paragraphs and the various sub headings, so that it's it's more readable.

O

Cob leah, case: sure yeah in down or space or.

F

Cob leah case: or both right, yeah.

F

dave, kuntz, osbt:. I think we had him it's a rather lengthy motion,, so we ought to make it as easy and convenient to.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: read as possible.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: dave, where, where is it that you're suggesting the space.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: well,, actually between each paragraph and then on the sub headings,, the first one being the underlying neo land for restoration,, so that those are all separate so that people can kind of get some sense of what it is that the topics are.

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Curt brown, osbt: in my pdf day there is a space there.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: oh,, my document has spaces to between each paragraph with a underlined subhead.

F

F

dave kuntz, osbt: have to throw my ipad out.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, I think I know what you're saying,, though dave I'm like one carriage return between all the paragraphs is normal and customary, perhaps to between the introduction and those up on the main sections would be getting at dave's point.

F

Dave kuntz,, osbt:, yes, that'd be great., dave, kuntz,, osbt:, okay, and even in denting. The first word in the paragraph.

F

Dave kuntz,, osbt: yeah would be great.

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Curt brown, osbt: dave. What about the font.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, the way. curt brown, osbt: the file about the font.

F

dave kuntz,, osbt: yeah. My backup is always you know times: new roman 12.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah there you go good.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: okay., karen hollweg,, osbt:, substantive stuff, here.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, out of the first page, that's amazing., curt, brown,, osbt:, good moving on, and you know.

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Curt brown, osbt: formatting is important,. I don't see any reason to not number these. It might be easier for people in the future to refer to them the sub parts of the motions, as numbers one through whatever.

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Curt brown, osbt:. If that strikes people it's a good idea,. We should have done that karen.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay, well, they going to number one land for restoration to offset impacts a variant one. Does anyone have a suggested amendment to that.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I see caroline.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, everyone has a term sheet or ground close, but I'm going to refer to his number eight.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: which., caroline miller, osbt:, you see here.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: on page eight of the term sheet.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: of the hard copy.

D

Caroline miller, osbt: right and the very top of it says key issue number to identify options for addressing see. You stated interest in 30, plus acres of land or we all.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: wait for everyone to have that pulled up,. Is there a better way for me, to.

N

Curt brown, osbt: do that.

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Curt brown, osbt:, so I just want to be clear, caroline. The number of the key issue that you're directing us to is eight.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, no, I'm sorry. I misspoke! It is page eight of the term sheet,. If you have the print out version and from your it should be the same. If it's on the computer.

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Caroline miller, osbt: I confused eight and pg.

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Curt brown, osbt:. So what's the number of the key issue of.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: the key issue, yeah.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:: it should be a key issue 11. I think right.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, it's interesting because, on the page, oh.

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Caroline miller, osbt: yes.

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Curt brown, osbt:, it says, determine suitable recreational uses.

F

Curt brown, osbt: the area within the flood mitigation.

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Curt brown, osbt: is that the one you're talking about. curt brown, osbt: yes, ok., curt brown, osbt: key issue, 11.

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Caroline miller, osbt:. So when I look at option two.

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Caroline miller, osbt: and read that.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, I just have., caroline miller, osbt:, a lot of concerns. With.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, what is going to appear on those 30 acres and how that will impact open space property, with its proximity related to groundwater related to endangered species related to critical habitat.

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Caroline miller, osbt: and it's concerning to me because, when you look at the responses from see you.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, it appears that a lot of cost would be on the city or on open space in and of itself,, and especially today,. After being able to see you know what has happened this past year with coping and our department, it just seems that.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, if the 30 acres or 34 acres, whatever we're going to call it for the recreational facilities or we're calling it university sports field.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: turned into something that appears much greater than it's being listed and talked about now. That could be extremely problematic for our labs and what we are able to afford.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I just feel, like you, know, sports field,. They require seating capacity and then, along with that, comes parking, storage, bathrooms facilities, locker rooms and for universities.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know the intercollegiate sports is important to them. It's important to the students. It's important.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: for a lot of schools, that's a big portion of why students choose to go to a school or not so.,.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I feel like the wording, is showing it as like you know,. This might be a soccer field, or you know, just kind of like a hometown baseball, field.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, but when you look at traditional universities and the revenue that they acquire a huge majority of it comes from their sport,. So it would seem unlikely that that 34 acres would not be used for quite a bit of economic growth. For the university.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so in stating all of that, I was reading our open space charter and section 176 e g, and he kind of jumped out at me a lot.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: because again.

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caroline miller, osbt:, if that property isn't our land, but it's so close to us and, as we consider these annexation agreements and, what's going to happen with flood mitigation.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: and being able to look forward into the future. It's very concerning that its proximity to such highly valuable land is going to possibly create.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: a lot of destruction, for.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know this critical habitat in open space land. So with saying that I'm going to see if, perhaps, the other board members would be open to using karen's.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, what paul's talking for a second.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, either integrating it in, or if everyone liked, what I'm about to say, might just become its own point, and I have some wording that I can use now,. But what I am suggesting.

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Caroline miller, osbt: is that we recommend to city council that at its current state, we would be unable to be an acceptance of such a large.

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Caroline miller, osbt: 34 acres, of., caroline miller,, osbt:, again,, recreational facilities or university sports field, however,. It wants to be worded just because we're unable to see what that looks like in the future and, again,, knowing that that is just a very high revenue stream for traditional universities,, so it.

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Caroline miller, osbt: staying just kind of like a grass soccer field,. This is not something that I think is really feasible.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so the preliminary wording that I have if we were to cheat well, should I stop here, kurt is that.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,. We can one thing we could do. Caroline before you get your specific language is, we could.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. We could ask phil chrysler to talk a little bit about what his understanding is about. The limits of the development of that.

A

Curt brown, osbt: public area for athletic fields and related that might be illuminating. I yeah I mean long ago,. There seemed to have been an agreement that there wouldn't be a football stadium, there.

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Curt brown, osbt:. What else do you think you can tell us oh.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): no,. Thank you so yeah the term sheet,. I will be the first one to say it's like it's. It's kind of weird to get through and hard to get.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): like what's really out on the table and it's like that,, because it's a document that evolved over the last two years,. So when you see the key issue to when it has some options that was.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, when we initially responded to the university's application in march of 2019, we identified six key issues,, one of them all finding something to do. With.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, the university stated interest of 30 acres for a wreck fields and the city's at the top.

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Phil kleisler (cob): the 500 year, flood creation project,, so we and then inundated like they wanted for that. We also inundated land that they wanted for housing, and so those were two of those big six issues.

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Phil kleisler (cob): and so, in this,, and so as we've kind of gone through this I can just maybe just if it's okay, I could just share one one. Quick.

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Phil kleisler (cob): diagram not to take up too much.

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curt, brown,, osbt: and yeah. phil kleisler (cob):, but city half you'll, see similar to what brandon had mentioned,. You know we're. Definitely using your previous motions, to.

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Phil kleisler (cob): implement a robust, open the program for the open space other area and in our last set of comments to them, we're really we're really trying to put them into this park urban other area. So it's hard to see, but there's a gray line. Here.

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Phil kleisler, (cob): and so,. This area here is the open space other,, and this is the park urban other,, and so what we would prefer is that, if there are rec fields that they'd be placed in in this area around the flood mitigation project,. We also you are correct in that we.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): that we've talked about not having a football field or stadium or things like that,, so the annexation agreement will include specific definitions about what's not allowed, and what we're looking at is. Probably you know. I don't.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): much less of an intense you then I think what you're talking about it could be something like a pots, field, or something like that,, but we're looking at.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):: what's the limit on an occupancy, what are some of the characteristics,? What are the setbacks from any open space property and also leaving an option there to have mutually agreeable fencing if we feel it's appropriate.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. I guess the question I have curd is in actually caroline. Is the 30 plus acres you're talking about part of the 119 or are you, seeing that as separate because, in my mind.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. What we're saying is that we want the entire 119 os o acreage for project mitigation, and so the university had requested,. You know, 30 or so acres of that for recreational uses. But.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:. Our our opinion is that the entire thing should come as open space, so that that recreational use is prohibited.

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Phil kleisler (cob):: that's what staff has been trying to implement and dave and.

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Phil kleisler (cob): yeah,, so I think we're on the same pages.

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Hal hallstein osbt: and just for double clarity, fill in your illustration,, the recreational fields,. They are plotted on the public,, not the rsl.

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Phil kleisler (cob): in the park urban other, so it's that area around the flood, mitigate.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, another enemy.

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Phil kleisler (cob):, yeah yeah,, and so this is the point of disagreement, though,, where the university wants to retain the right to use some of the lso. We feel that.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, you know, an anchor less than 100 things, you really locates any approval of annexation, and so it's something that we feel strongly about and we've been attempting to implement the board's previous recommendations or through this process.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, so I think that's great and caroline. I do think that what you're suggesting, though, is worth noting, for any other recreational field, use on that property that there's still potential impacts and so on, open space associated with those potential recreational uses.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah, so caroline, let's go back to you, then, and have you share your language,, and so we can figure out where it fits.

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Caroline miller,, osbt: and and just to add, really quick when you continue to read the document it just. It really concerns me. When.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, you know,, see you talks about.

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Caroline miller, osbt: sorry,, let me to print, is so small.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, I just thought it and then lost it. They talk about what happens during a flood and being able to get the water off of their property as quickly as possible, and that you know any damage. Done.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: regarding drainage and detention,. So that also really concerns me because ok, so the city will ensure flood detention area will be engineered to suspicion to sufficiently drain within a reasonable period of time..

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so if the city is worried that the university.

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Caroline miller, osbt: is going to ask for something if we have a flood, and it is not removed in a timely basis off of their turf fields and therefore.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: ruins their grass that that is going to somehow take priority over what would need to happen for floodwater for our our open space and critical habitats.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so it concerns me that the soccer field would get a higher priority than then open space and and what would happen in the event of a flood. There.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, I not even highlighted this document to be able to read it easier and I'm still having a hard time doing. It.

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Curt brown, osbt:, as as are we all.

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Caroline miller, osbt: see you also agreed to appropriate fencing between the properties and a 20 foot setback where 10 is typically required,. So there is some acknowledgement on encroachment and allowing a bigger distance between the two.

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Caroline miller, osbt: but, of course, that every recreational field there is gathering and.

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Caroline miller, osbt:. We have seen that with that age, group, or if alcohol is allowed,, how they didn't sometimes can quickly get a little bigger than intended.

N

Caroline miller,, osbt: and again,, with it being so close to our critical habitat. It causes me a lot of concern that there could be damage done.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, due to what we allow to be so close to the property,, so it just it concerns the recreational fields. Concern me so what I have started off. If everyone wants me to read, this.

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Caroline miller, osbt: and then we can just see if we move through. If this is something you know, we want or don't want, it, but.

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Caroline miller, osbt:- I have written so far due to open spaces structural budgetary constraints, our traditional strategic adaptation approaches are obsolete.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: research findings presented by staff, detail, underwhelming lee inadequate resources and finances for high risk expansion without value added and meaningful societal, partnership.

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Caroline miller, osbt: spt recommends information sharing by a structured internal external discussion process that could lead to preparedness for eventualities that might quickly emerge in the cu university landscape.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: and then from there.

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caroline miller, osbt:. We could talk about the unknown potential features.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: by listing all of them kind of as karen, has done with light pollution, noise, pollution, etc, or we could say that we feel that the fields could be in misalignment with certain portions of the open space charter. I find section 176, eg and h to stick out to me.

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Caroline miller, osbt: that that's kind of where I'm at so far with that.

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Curt brown, osbt:, though, what what we could do, you sort of alluded to this, as we can, as we go through the rest of these, because a number of these are targeted, at.

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Curt brown, osbt: this buffering that you mentioned, and we can see if it's sufficient in your eyes or where we should add a little stronger language,. If that, if that works for you.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, caroline, if you were, if you were to in one sentence, say what outcome, you would like.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: in your mind, the best outcome would be to have what happened with the recreation fields.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, I think, an understanding of of what intercollegiate sports mean to a university.

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Caroline miller, osbt:. I would think that on that particular property,, they should not be allowed.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, I I relate to your concerns about runoff fertilizers,, many of the other sort of problems here,. I do think the first. The first bullet point of the motion as created has really good, concise. This and clarity about us being clear on the portion like of the property.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, and I guess the other thing that just subtly gives me a little reassurance on this topic- is that the most valuable habitat is.

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Hal hallstein osbt: is not going to be the land directly. A budding were phil showed us the likelihood of this activity. That's going to be some of the highest ground on the property and, frankly, it's going to be, you know,, taking good mitigation.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, anywhere near and close to it, is going to be challenging. So I guess,, I see that as an officer like a as one.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: piece of solace on that the other thing that I'll just not do, and I don't want to jump ahead,, but what you guys have done regarding seeing the open space other as an area for see you to.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: do its own mitigation requirements on its property seemed like a very creative and innovative solution to meet some of their needs, about the impacts that they will have in these other zones,. So I guess those are just a couple of thoughts.

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Caroline miller, osbt: yeah and I think, even when I look at the term sheet kind, of.

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Caroline miller, osbt: of what was just said, like where, where are the discussions with that you know, being an or so or.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: or you know what is happening with it, it just looking forward into the future.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, I just feel that the possibility for growth could.

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Caroline miller, osbt: overwhelm us a lot.

N

Curt brown, osbt: well,. I certainly agree that the issue of what happens on those lands is of serious interest to us and it's it's something that is not completely defined. I think phil has alluded to that and so.

A

Curt brown, osbt: there are other places where this comes up,, and so I do suggest we go through.

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Curt brown, osbt: keeping these issues in mind, caroline because I think you're right, there's significant uncertainty here that may affect us, and so let's see whether there's places to add more language to this. What this number one now that we're numbering them says, is that.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, correct yes.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: me, I just interject one thought before you go on with number one.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, yes, please.

C

Um. karen hollweg, osbt:, I, the clarity,, caroline with which you said.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: that you think rockfield should not be allowed in my mind.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: is better communicated as a standalone paragraph,. I think.

D

Karen hollweg, osbt: mm hmm and perhaps somewhere near the end after we've mentioned.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, these other things, would be a better place to locate it.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I agree,- I just, I think, with what we're talking about here in all of our our recommendations,. It seems.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know a little misaligned with something like direct deal but yeah. I think we should all just keep talking and and go through it and see. If.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: see what it comes to be at the end of the discussion,, but but yeah. I agree with you at the end,. Maybe talking about it or putting it in, there will be good.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know,, and so I agree with that in another approach might be to just highlight the word. Parks.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: in instead of recreational fields,, because I think it's not it's unrealistic to think that there aren't going to be open, areas,, you know, in the in the development, and certainly I think everyone supports that,, but we would probably be more.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: supportive of the notion of parks,, then recreational fields per se.

C

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah, the green. karen hollweg, osbt: look,, but when I look at the second row under a term sheet item number 11.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it gives a specific definition for rec fields,. It says that they include concessions, restrooms storage.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, a dx melody.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and all those other things in that second row there,, so I in my mind it's not just recreation fields, it's recreation, fields,, plus, all of those additional things that see you has used to define what wreck fields refers. To.

C

Caroline miller, osbt: it'll be an intercollegiate sports complex to some extent,. I mean they're they're, a very large, well known university and, of course,. They could probably build something.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know very big, there.

N

curt, brown, osbt:. I think that's., caroline miller, osbt:. What you speak up dave about the green spaces is beautiful and wonderful and there's a lot of stuff. You know if, if they wanted to it,, it could look great and their students could love it. But.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: fields are there for revenue and and and so of course, that will drive traffic and expansion, so I.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I just thought,, maybe we should think about.

E

Curt brown, osbt:, I think. hal hallstein osbt:. I think you make a key point there. Caroline, though, that many of our asks incorporated in this, have you know economic ramifications for the university.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: to ask them not to build rec fields on a car to their property, that is their own, is a very material and significant ask.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, not one, I personally think should be taken lightly, and I I just I feel like you would want to tread with caution. I'm interested in the impacts of that on open space run off fertilizers, etc, but.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, getting getting into using using this board to tell them what they should and should not build their to a high level of specificity seems like we. We run a little off track to me, but that's.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I agree with you that it that it's a kind of a high risk recommendation, if you will,, but if you look at the our other recommendations, it.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I just I felt like I would be doing- opens up a disservice to not speak of it,, whether or not it, you know,, maybe makes a few people uncomfortable. It presents itself as as something of concern to me.

A

Curt brown, osbt:: let's ask phil, to weigh in on this because.

A

Curt brown, osbt: right now,. There are two sports that are intercollegiate sports that are competed on cu. South one is cross country and the other is tennis.

A

Curt brown, osbt: in terms of recreation fields, unless something dramatically changes.

A

Curt brown, osbt: the only other cu intercollegiate sports that could be competed. There would be soccer lacrosse and they already have those facilities on campus so.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I don't know, feel what's your sense,. Are you seeing the university wanting to hold additional intercollegiate competitions beyond tennis and cross country? Let's see yourself.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): no,. I don't think they know.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): cuz, I think we went if they were here. They probably would say that they will need to go through them at their own planning, master planning process to determine that, and so that's the challenge.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): yeah, that's what the whole project, and so what we're trying to do is to do those guardrails to determine what will and will not go there. Perhaps more importantly, and so.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):. What we are looking at is what we would prefer: lower impact kind of fields that you're talking about lacrosse soccer fields. We are interested and stayed at our parks, department, up running track and perhaps an area for off leash dogs.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, but you know I would say also that that topic is not resolved, and so,. If you have input and.

D

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, especially around things like as a jason property owner. It's a it's it's similar to like a neighborhood next next door to something like this, and so..

L

Phil kleisler (cob): and, in addition to your former former former role in open space, but run off fertilizers from fields and things like that, it's these sorts of things here.

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,, I think, caroline, you you've identified an issue that we could add some words about basically saying that.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, you know,. While we understand the university has this desire to have these athletic fields, recreation fields,. We would be concerned if the size and scope of these activities became much larger,, more formalized, more people,, etc,, etc. um I think it's one thing to have fields: where.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, you know people can kick around the soccer ball. It's it's another thing to start holding new intercollegiate competitions right there and we already speak to the issue of a loudspeaker systems and things like that.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: right and as budget cuts happen and and people look for additional sources of revenue. I just feel that area would be quite tempting in the future. And, again,, you never know the name just pops up to me,, but if you, you have a athlete that turns into a temp.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: tivo, and what typically is an event that really doesn't draw a lot of people becomes extremely popular,. You know that, of course, that has the potential as well.

F

Caroline miller, osbt: yeah. dave kuntz, osbt:. I think it's fair to say that the board has grave concerns.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: about both the identification and use of proposed recreational fields, yeah.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I think we could have.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, and are you suggesting that that needs to be part of number one or a separate item? That's what's hanging me I.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: think it should be separate.

F

curt, brown,, osbt: okay,. I would agree.

E

Karen hollweg, osbt:, all right. hal hallstein osbt:, I'm gonna stand out as a little mixed. I you may think there's unanimity here, but I'm a little mixed doubles.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and how you're concerned.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: anybody arguing it for. karen hollweg, osbt: for it to be part of number one.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: no. karen hollweg, osbt: okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so let's take it. Let's take it up at the end and see what issues have not been covered. There.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I think, taking it up near the final section or trails will be interesting, because I have a couple of comments that are going to be maybe on a consensus on that one too.

A

Curt brown,, osbt:, okay, we'll look forward to that.

D

Curt brown, osbt: okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so does anyone have any other amendment for number one.

A

Curt brown, osbt: per se., curt brown, osbt:, seeing none, I will go to number two,, which is titled transfer costs of floodplain restoration.

A

Curt brown, osbt: proposed amendments of language.

D

Curt brown, osbt: how.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I think the word very is unnecessary..

A

Curt brown, osbt:. Well, it's just the first sentence. Usb key is very concerned: yeah yeah, I'm happy to strike very.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:. I think you also did a great job being very clear in this one and it's it stands on its own two legs very firmly.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, as you know, this, this was kurt, as you know,. I did a lot of thinking about this one to the only mixed feelings that I that I have about. This was our decision to remove any discussion. About.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:. What I, what I see is a critical part of the history,, and that is that the actions that are listed in this part of the motion which the university took historically.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: were specifically warned against at multiple moments in the process by the city formally by the county formally by the cca g formally and.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:. I understand why people don't want it in there,, but I also understand why I'm speaking about that for the public record now.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, because it's it's very much part of my belief of why this is justin in a fair way of looking at it,, because they were advised the whole way that this was going to create problems for flood mitigation..

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, and so they cannot act surprised by the fact that what they did do created problems for flood mitigation and the environmental concerns related.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, so I'm okay with that coming out,, but I just wanted to state it publicly that there's a long history, there that's important to follow where they specifically went against the advice of the county, the city and the cc ag.

A

Curt brown, osbt: very good at home.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I mean,, I think we could try to fit in apparent theoretical about that,, but I think, yes,. It might be too much detail.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I think the ask is clear, and I think people are unanimous about the nature of the ask and that's what's important.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, thank you, other thoughts on number two here.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I just want to point out something that hell has already mentioned,, which is the second paragraph in number two.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: is not something that we discussed.

P

Karen hollweg, osbt: last session, but I is something that.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: kurt suggested, as we were, trying to create this document and I thought was a reasonable idea,. So we we inserted it,, even though it was not part of our study session discussion,. So I want to make sure everybody.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: knows the origin of that second paragraph yeah.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. Thank you for bringing that up. Karen of what we've said in our study. Session,- and you know, we covered a lot of things quickly- is that we didn't want more of the oh so to be used by the university.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, you know,. We were trying to sort of put our arms around it,, but the idea here is if the university has to mitigate impacts, the list and species,, and they want to pay for that mitigation to happen on the lso to recreate wetlands or habitat..

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I think that's fine. It might actually reduce our costs for for mitigation. So that's where we ended up on this,, but thank you karen yes,. It is a bit of a change of direction.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, I concur,. I think it sounds fine. It's good idea.

A

Curt brown, osbt: anything else, so number two.

G

Cob, dan burke: good, I diamond from a staff perspective.

A

Curt brown, osbt: oh. curt brown, osbt: yeah. curt brown, osbt: go ahead, dan. Did you want to chime in and then.

A

cob, dan burke:, we'll yeah just on.

G

Cob, dan burke:, the on the one to four sentence or fourth line down and shifted. The costs under the city and the s&p or s&p is part of the city.

G

Cob, dan burke:, so I'm just wondering, and you know part of our lesson. Peace staff spelling is that we shouldn't be bearing much.

G

Cob, dan burke: cost- maybe not at all out here so friendly and mimic, could be on to the city comma,, including potentially do smp.

G

Curt brown, osbt: instead of I think that city.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I think that would be fine clarification. I mean the thinking was fairly simple. That.

A

Curt brown, osbt: in our previous motions,, we say, well, a certain amount. Restoration should be a project costs, flood project costs, and so that's a that's. A city costs and other parts of the restoration would be paid for by os mp,, which might come out of the open space. Fun so.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, but I think your proposed changes. Fine, if you, if you want to go with that and leah, did you get that.

O

Cob leah case:, I think so did the second paragraph, said, in return,. The city,, including potentially osm p, would make and then go on.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: know if it's in the first paragraph of.

C

karen hollweg, osbt: number two. karen hollweg,, osbt:, okay, bruce for fourth line.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it says, shifted the costs on to the city.

A

Curt brown, osbt: comma.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: comma,, including potentially the smp.

O

Cob leah case:, yes,, okay, thanks yeah sorry.

G

Cob, dan burke: yeah- and I guess there is that clarification in the second paragraph,. If we just want to put city slash.

G

Cob, dan burke: or simply just.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: yeah, so in return to city slash smp. I think that's fine. At the beginning of the second paragraph.

O

Cob leah case: got it thanks.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, other thoughts on this hell. Yeah thank you., hal hallstein osbt:. um I my my main point is different,. I will say dan. I I see where you're headed, but also think about how much staff time has already gone into the discussion alone, about how we're going to mitigate around these structures.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, there is very clearly less mp costs. They may not be as formal, but that we've already sunk a lot of time. Enough.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah, which begs for the elimination of the word, potentially right, how.

D

Hal hallstein osbt:, right.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I feels non potential to me,, but I am not going to resist. What I am more interested in celebrating is what you guys have come up with in the second paragraph, here.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, if I understand this right, and I think it's helpful for the public,- the concept here in the second paragraph.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: is that the city is that see you, through its own development activities may incur regulatory requirements to do its own mitigation and in a term sheet they discussed and for saw that.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: and that, basically, through the 118 acres of oh, so we might be able to your mark space, so that they can achieve that mitigation in a way. That's really high impact in effective.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: alongside us- and I really I just I thought that was a very creative idea that seems to solve that concern and and bridges gaps,, and so I just wanted to say, whoever thought that up. It's quite brilliant.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's our departing chair., karen hollweg, osbt:, just for the record.

A

Hal hallstein osbt: thank you, curt. curt, brown, osbt: at that., curt, brown,, osbt:. So back to you, dan, I mean you want to keep the word potentially in there, or just have it be under the city and the smp. What's your druthers.

G

Cob, dan burke: oh,, I don't have a strong feeling on that word. Staying or going.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and I think. karen hollweg, osbt:, I'm fine with comma,, including the smp without the word potentially.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,, so we'll just drop the word potentially leah thanks, I'm with you how, I don't think it's very potential lee.

A

Curt brown,, osbt:, okay, anything else on this number two before we go on to number three.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, number three is the dry. Creek ditch shares to enable restoration.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: occurred,. I have a suggestion.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I think that we ought to clarify the use of the word acquired and my my recommendation is that in rather than acquired, it should, it should read, should be transferred by see you to osm, p comma, at no cost to osm p.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: other ship should be transferred right.

F

Caroline miller, osbt: right.

A

Curt brown, osbt: dave. I don't disagree. That would be a nice thing. Um.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, you know it's just it's just another ask,, but what do other board members think.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I mean,, sometimes people get very jealous about their water rights and.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. Well, there's no question about that. That's the concern.

A

Curt brown, osbt: right, I'm like what we have to pay.

A

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: wait for me. Oh I'm, sorry how go ahead! Nope.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:. I think we don't have enough information to really answer that question, well,, the amount of water that's required to do the mitigation work on site.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, to make up for the previous history of d watering, I think, should come with the deal,. But if some of the water rights are going to be used to the benefit of other osm p lands,, it makes that discussion more complex.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: yes,, but there is it, makes for a discussion.

D

Curt brown, osbt: caroline.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I was., caroline miller, osbt:, just to be kind of frank,. I was confused at the last meeting when we were asking staff questions about water and their feedback was. It was just a bit.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, maybe touchy or uncomfortable to talk about these water right,. So it seems like there's, there's some unsaid that are going on, so just to put out just to put that out there, I feel like. We don't really know the the whole picture and I'm confused as to why.

G

Cob, dan burke: yeah from a staff perspective,, we feel those water rights should be transferred.

G

Cob, dan burke: to open space at no cost,, so it.

A

Curt brown, osbt: is that right.

G

Cob, dan burke:, I think the hesitancy is, we are not totally sure, based on the design and what the restoration project ends up. Looking like.

G

Cob, dan burke:, how much about water is going to be needed at any given year, to support the restoration,, but what don was alluding to is that if there's, we certainly have.

G

Cob, dan burke:, we would certainly have use within within the jurisdiction of those water rights to use them and other areas. If, for us.,.

G

Cob, dan burke:, if our particular reason it turned out,, we don't need all the rights to support that restoration in a given year, we're pretty confident that could be used elsewhere on ios and p lions, with with within the jurisdictional limitations of that water, right.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: well, and it's number three points out,. This goes to os bts ongoing concerns about groundwater.

A

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,, so dan, what you're saying,, if I understand, is you're saying these water rights are pertinent: the land and, therefore,, whatever happens to the land,, the water right should be going with that land. Is there some way that we can phrase our statement.

D

Curt brown, osbt: to match your thinking.

G

Cob, dan burke:, I don't think, that's technically correct, correct.

G

cob, dan burke: until today, stations,, the boulder advice code typically would ask, at least the right of first refusal on water rights,. I don't think.

G

Cob, dan burke:, it's a standard practice. They automatically get transferred over that's the annexation negotiation. Okay, when space staff is recommending that those water rights be transferred over to the open space department, at no cost to support mitigation. Restoration.

G

Cob, dan burke:, but that is not a given typical annexation, but that would that's our position.

G

Cob, dan burke:, but ok, the the boulder advice code or other annexation sort of standards, does not demand. This phil is that correct.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): yes,. There is a an ordinance that does talk about us getting the first right of refusal at annexation,, but I think it is negotiated.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):. I do think the balls is kind of in see you right now. We've stated an interest in getting those water rights and their latest response was that they're under review by a consultant,, and so it's it's on our list of items.

L

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah.

F

F

dave kuntz, osbt:. We should split hairs here and overanalyze.

F

dave kuntz, osbt:. This is what we want and we had a stated very clearly.

F

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah and I think since on the term sheets, it's a separate item. We should keep it a separate item to just for clarity.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,, so it sounds to me like to be consonant with the department's position,, but we should change this language, a little bit to say all remaining. Ditch water of drinking water shares should be transferred to smp at no cost to support.

A

Curt brown, osbt: right does that language work.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: with dave's language dave, would you repeat your language.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, it's the same except for it has bye, see you so transfer should be transferred by see you too,, oh smp, comma, at no cost to smp.

F

Hal hallstein osbt: period should we add one short final sentence that says: no restoration is possible on the land,. Without these water rights.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, just to make you said, dave that this is a want of ours,. But in fact it's a neat.

G

Dave kuntz, osbt:, yeah., cob,, dan burke:, yeah man, I'm sure you could do some type of restoration that desired restoration would not be possible without water rights, we.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, we might want to put.

F

dave kuntz, osbt: should be acquired or should be transferred by see you to open space at no cost of open space, to essential to a support, a scent or to.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: see are essential to support.

F

So that. dave kuntz, osbt: that gets to your concern, how,, which I think is a good one.

E

Dave kuntz, osbt: essential to support.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so let me take a shot at this,. I think you're saying it would read.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, the transfer of the remaining dr ditch water shares to osm p, at no cost is essential to support meaningful land restoration,, particularly of the mind area, or something like that is that close date.

A

A

curt brown, osbt:. It's like a remember what I said. curt brown, osbt: yeah go ahead, dan. Did you have something.

G

Cob, dan burke: yeah you know,, depending on the definition of how the water right could be used,. You know I don't know if we want to be too specific here, but.

G

Cob, dan burke:, as far as how we're able to use, did shares and the terms,, but I think, is essential,. This is supporting us and p functions on the rsl restoration and functions on the ios, oh, and also s&p. My answer, but.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I I feel very strongly about the second phrase there too.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah that we need to say to provide supplementary irrigation of areas affected by variant one groundwater disruption,, because I think that's are having water available for that is really important..

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: that we could put the word essential in here, too, is there, essential to provide. So it's there to essentials for the use of the water.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: essential to provide or an essential component.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: well, be essential to restore and essential to provide or to supplement or maintain whatever.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,. Let me take a shot at this again.

A

Curt brown, osbt: the remake it.

A

Curt brown, osbt: the remaining dry creek watershed there's.

A

Curt brown, osbt: no,. I didn't start it that way,. I said.

O

Curt brown, osbt: kurt, what's that. cob leah case:, you want me to read what I think I captured.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, absolutely leah leah thank you.

O

Cob leah case:, yeah that'll help me.

O

cob leah case: remaining dry creek. Ditch water share should be transferred by see you too,, oh smp, at no cost. Oh smp.

O

Cob leah case: and then I have are essential to support land restoration,, particularly of the mind area,, and then it continues and essential to provide supplemental irrigation of areas affected by varying one groundwater. Disruption.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: and I just like to make sure damn does that meet your needs? I want your needs to be met.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: john potter is shaking his head, no,. I can see.

C

karen hollweg, osbt:, that on a screen.

G

Curt brown, osbt:, yes,, john., cob, dan burke:, I think we're groundwater disruption could be an issue yeah yeah, a few things.

G

Hal hallstein osbt:, I think. hal hallstein osbt:. Please speak your mind. Yeah.

Q

John potter, cob: yeah, I think dan was on the right track with not not really talking about the use of the water, other than for osm p. Purposes.

Q

John potter, cob:, just just, is probably a good practice,, not to..

Q

John potter, cob: not to predetermine what water right could be used for and and also, I will, when you talk about remaining dry creek chairs,. Do you mean remaining after see you figures out what they need.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, that's a good question john, and we try wording this many different ways,. So please help us out what would you say.

Q

John potter, cob: that the way staff have been conveying it to the folks working on the annexation, is.

Q

John potter, cob: that and what we thought the board wanted was to convey all of see us water interest in water rights to the city essentially, and that's it..

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, but don't you think it needs to specify oh smp.

Q

John potter, cob: um. john potter,, cob: no,, I mean that's, that's what we're will be working with.

Q

John potter, cob:, the flood project, and I would expect, would be a requirement of any disposal that you might do.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I guess john I'm concerned that I, I think, at least. If we talk about restoration, that that.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: explains the need the potential need, the general need for the water and it it applies to this specific site and specific use.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I think you know,, which means that see. You might be more somewhat more amenable to considering that transfer.

F

Hal hallstein osbt:, whereas if. dave, kuntz, osbt:, you leave it open, ended. dave, kuntz, osbt:, then you know,, we had a legitimate claim of well. You know you're, just asking us for water that we had no idea what you're going to do. It.

F

John potter, cob: and yeah, but that if that's one of the.

Q

John potter, cob: the terms that you, you would like to recommend counsel to consider,. I think.

Q

John potter, cob: that would go a long way.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: can't we just say for restoration and mitigation.

Q

John potter, cob: I. john potter, cob: personally, I wouldn't do that. But.

Q

John potter, cob:, it's up to you, guys. so.,.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, what I'm hearing is is that we have, on the one hand, political purposes of trying to convince the city. Council.-.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: of what we're trying to do for their clarity,, but I'm also hearing the department is looking at another element of this. That is equally as important and I'm coming around to the idea that we should defer to john and dance view on this.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: for that reason.

G

Cob, dan burke:, I mean I, you know just it for for all s&p purposes.

G

Cob, dan burke:, including potential purposes, and use some on the rsl or mean that's even fine.,.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: is saying for future or feature spt or s&p. He says, does that.

N

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I I sort of with where dave and karen are in that we've. We've made a very strong pitch about the need for floodplain restoration.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and I do think we need to tie this to that,, and so I would agree, we should try to retain.

A

Curt brown, osbt: the language of floodplain, restoration and maintenance, and that can include the groundwater part.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, but I'm also looking for ways to not imply that that would be necessarily the only use for it.

N

Curt brown, osbt: delete., caroline miller, osbt:, the future needs.

G

Cob, dan burke: yeah, and just because water rights, water loss, so complicated.

A

Cob, dan burke: yes, assume, which we haven't done the micro analysis of the water rights, for instance, to tie it to disruption of groundwater.

G

Cob, dan burke: disruption this in the use of the water rights, I mean that could be problematic for mobile, auto rights perspective and the us perspective so again,. I think, the more you micro drill into specifically how we intend to use the water.

G

Cob, dan burke:, I think it could be problematical. So that's the recommendation.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, and the last thing we want to do is had to water court.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. What we could say: is, then,, is reserved for open space, purposes, including.

F

Dave kuntz,, osbt: restoration,. You know the language and restoration.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: is there any reason why it's a problem to just make this a single sentence,, the first sentence.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: basically, with that transfer change and cut out all additional.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: embellishment, I feel like we'd, be strong there, and maybe even that simplicity communicates the political point. We want in a different way.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I I just think we've got to clarify what all remaining dry, creek dishwater shares means, because I brought that up when kurt- and I were talking about this- and it's not clear to me what all remaining bright, creek, ditch water shares. Is.

E

Curt brown, osbt:, I agree with.

C

Hal hallstein osbt: that too yeah. I just feel like what john and dan are saying: they're trying to keep us out of trouble on this.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: and,, and I would like to follow, along with them.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, so what it, what shares, is it that we're talking about congestion or or dan tell us.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I think what john said and I've tried to write it down. Here is the transfer of see you water shares in the dry. Creek gets to the city, at no cost, that's all of their shares.

A

Dave kuntz, osbt: right.

D

Curt brown, osbt: is that where you were going john.

Q

Curt brown, osbt: yeah. john potter,, cob: yeah and supporting that kurt I would just say, and any any water rights associated with to south.

A

Curt brown, osbt: oh.

D

Curt brown, osbt:, so the dry creek, ditch isn't,. The only thing we might be talking, about.

Q

John potter, cob: don't totally know that yet.

Q

john potter, cob:, but again, typically on an annexation. The city as phil mentioned this, the city can can ask for right of first refusal or in many cases,. We asked for the water rights as part of the annexation.

Q

John potter, cob: in this case,, I would just say you know,, a possible recommendation that you could have is to transfer all of the water rights associated with see you south to the city for oh seven, p purposes or something like that..

Q

John potter, cob:, I mean that would be a very simple., john potter, cob: direct way to say what I think you guys want to do, but.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah, I'm okay. With that to accept time you know the university is going to want some water to irrigate there.

P

Dave kuntz, osbt:, yeah undeveloped land, and so it's not like they're going to say: oh yeah, you can have everything we got.

Q

John potter, cob: well they're we're giving them water.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, you you mean we're giving them city, water, yeah.,.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I think that that's., caroline miller, osbt: good advice from one, because I feel like in the last meeting that what I found to be confusing was a feeling of underlying tone that perhaps we don't know everything like we're talking about dry creek did shares,, but that might not be everything we should be talking. About.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: or that's available to us right, now.

A

Curt brown,, osbt:, okay, I'm gonna, give you another version, then here.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, is this number three. I forgotten already.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: yes,, it is.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, ok, so., curt, brown, osbt:. Here. Here's a reading, number three water rights to support: floodplain restoration, colon, that's the title: that.

A

Curt brown, osbt: I'm going to put a couple more words in here.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,, the ospf. He recommends transfer of see you water rights associated with the cu south property to the city,, at no cost for all smp purposes.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: purposes what's purposes in therefore.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I'm fine with that first.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, what's the word purposes, hanging on the end, for.

A

Curt brown, osbt:: well, it's for s. Amp, p, purposes.,.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, oh no cost to smp for s. Amp, p, purposes.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. Well, it's the way it read is to the city, at no cause for all smp purposes.

A

Curt brown, osbt:- I can read it again here. The title is water rights to support floodplain restoration least. We've got a link there to what we've been talking about. Usb key recommends: transfer of sea water rights associated with the ceo of south property to the city, at no cost for all smp purposes.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: sounds good to me.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, you have that.

O

Cob leah, case:, yes, and that's replacing the previous number three is that correct.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, that's correct. It replaces the whole thing.

A

cob leah, case: okay. curt brown, osbt:, so we still have that bracket, though at the end, it says, number 24.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, and we can karen go ahead.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt:, we have one final reading. Yes, let's.

C

Curt brown, osbt: read it. karen hollweg, osbt: yeah. Do you want it yeah.

O

Cob leah case:: that's how about being put to the test okay,, so the title would be water rights to support restoration and then the content underneath that would be the lgbt recommends the transfer of see you water rights associated with the cu south property to the city, at no cost for osm p, purposes.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the last race, once again,, is for.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, the purposes.

O

Cob leah case: for osm p purposes, yeah.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and we appreciate staffs input here. It's this is really important,. Thank you.

Q

John potter, cob: and I'm kurt one suggestion we have be.

Q

John potter, cob: to transfer that the title to the water to the water rights.

Q

John potter, cob: transfer of the title.

D

John potter, cob: to the water rights to the city or something like that.

Q

John potter, cob:, I lost a little bit. What leah was was saying, but sorry.

A

Curt brown, osbt: so, right now, it just it just as transfer of see you water rights. Are you saying.

A

Curt brown, osbt: transfer of title to see you, water, rights.

A

Curt brown, osbt: to okay. curt brown, osbt:. You can add that in leah, so it says, usb key recommends, transfer of the title. To.

A

Curt brown, osbt:: do you water, rights.,.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, the next one.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: thing: there's not a water attorney on the board. yeah, no kidding.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I don't get me started on water attorney, jokes.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt: okay. curt brown, osbt:, the next one is number four minimizing light and noise pollution from the csl. Development..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: what happened to protecting the south. dave, kuntz, osbt:, boulder, creek., curt, brown, osbt:. You skipped one, I'm sorry.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I scrolled too fast.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, you know I'm gonna come out of my skin,. If you skip over that one.

A

Curt brown, osbt: number for protecting the south boulder creek watershed.

A

Curt brown, osbt: proposed amendments.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, as opposed to is an art major feature of this landscape.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I don't know if we should say os, mp, or the city of boulder.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and then tell us where you are in there, caroline.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: be used to the west., caroline miller,, osbt:, okay, boulder creek trail or a major feature of this landscape.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: so., caroline miller, osbt:, where it says this landscape.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: or make it a little more wordy and say the city of boulder or s&p.

D

Curt brown, osbt:, hmm that's good point. We leave that sort of vague there. Don't wait,. We always say it's. It's the south boulder creek view shad.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. That's what the word this landscape refers to,, but are you suggesting we should be a little bit more geographically specific or for what.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: well., caroline miller, osbt:, karen, do you think.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: uses us.

C

Well. karen hollweg, osbt:, the only adjective that I would insert, is repeating south boulder creek.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, which means that it would save us to the west, from the south boulder creek trail,, are a major feature of the south, boulder creek landscape and I'm not sure we need to say south boulder creek twice,, but it would make it perfectly clear..

N

Caroline miller, osbt: no,, I see what you're saying now: when.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I initially read it, like the first read of it.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I don't know that. I quite understood that we were saying that that.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: is the area just because it's so expensive here in boulder. You can, you know you have that view from a lot of different places.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, but that is specifically the area we're talking about so.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I might disregard my own suggestion.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, well keep in mind.

A

curt, brown, osbt:. Other thoughts on this paragraph.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, going once.

A

Curt brown, osbt: going twice.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, I'm on to number five,. I think it is now.

A

Curt brown, osbt: minimizing light and noise pollution from the sea of south development..

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, philosophical question, here., hal, hallstein, osbt:, yeah and annexation is fundamentally an invitation into the city,, a city which is probably done more thinking about its own ordinances, probably them most in the nation.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I'm wondering,. I imagine that you had reasons to do the way you did and I'm looking to learn what those reasons are.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, but the simpler way to handle this would be to require that the university comply with the city's outdoor lighting and noise ordinances, and then we have two sentences. Helped me understand why we're adding complexity.

A

Curt brown, osbt: right,. I think it's a fair question. How.

C

Curt brown, osbt: when I read. karen hollweg, osbt: the boulder revised codes,, both for lighting and noise.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I saw a lot of reference to larger institutions and entities.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the the codes, as I read them, are written for residential areas. And,. If you are a residence in a residential area,, you have to do certain things very clearly spelled out. If you are a large institution.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, not so much.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, it's too bad. We don't have somebody from planning here, oh, we do.

A

Curt brown, osbt: field,. You want to weigh in on this because was we're grappling with things that we don't fully. Perhaps understand.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): yeah and I, with this particular item, we're halfway there and that we've gotten the university to agree to comply with our light outdoor lighting standards and so..

L

Phil kleisler (cob):. If, if it's in our code,, then it would be memorialized through through this agreement. We noise is not something that we've we've addressed, but and so it's good to hear your your interest and concerns there.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, I don't I'm not an expert on the lighting ordinance and it's been several months since I've read it.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): as part of this, this process,, and so we might have to get back to you about that,. But if there's things.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): particular things you're concerned about. I do know that there was discussion.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): a while ago, and I think a lot of our standards and these universities are pretty similar. So, like our transportation plans are similar, our lighting standards are similar. Ours are a little bit more stringent oftentimes and I think that's the case with lighting.

A

Curt brown, osbt: l. curt brown, osbt:. Do you want to then add comment, I mean, is it,. Are you saying well.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: well,, I it's not so much common. I mean I hear karen saying that she's concerned exemptions, exists.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: within the code and,, as I actually visualize that the project and practice if it is going to be largely housing and academic use.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, it would seem that the residential code for the city of boulder is probably good enough for the new community. That's entering our city,, but then you have the potential for recreational fields and elsewhere,, which anyway.

D

Hal hallstein osbt:, I understand what you're doing there.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: but,, given what phil said, did what phil said, give you confidence enough to simply ask for compliance with the outdoor lighting, ordinance.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, not when.,.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: those regulations are insufficient,. I think, for this particular area, and all you have to do is walk by see you at any point at night and in try to envision yourself.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: on open space. With that kind of lighting situation, I don't think there's any way to mitigate the impact from noise and lighting on the open space,, and so this is kind of a worst case. Scenario.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, and we ought to be as rigorous as we can, and we ought to say that you know, there should be no noise or light,. You know that comes on to open space off that property.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: well,, and I guess that's my problem,, because the ordinances give specific, specific decibel and lumen values which are measurable, enforceable, and, frankly,, the sentence to not allow noise or light off the boundaries of the property is a is a physics and possibility.

E

Dave kuntz, osbt:, that's correct,, so I think we shouldn't be myopic to think that we're going to mitigate impacts from noise and light.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. So if, if I read this, the first paragraph, basically describes our interests, and I think sometimes, when you don't know just either what's going to be developed, or what the code will say.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, it's good to state what your interest is and we end by saying,. Therefore, adherence to the city's lighting standards is really important,. So in case of lighting, we are endorsing.

A

Curt brown, osbt: the city's lighting standards, but we're going maybe further and saying here's why we're concerned the second one for noise, we,. I mean you're right how we do not call out the city's noise ordinances and you know,. Maybe we should do that.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: and caroline, you got your hand up to hell,. Did you just want to respond about noise, particularly.

A

Hal hallstein osbt:, well, ordinance.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, yeah, and just with the way,, though I I really do respect and see where you're going,, but essentially what you're asking is city council to create another parallel ordinance that somehow is enforceable and measurable.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: and and etc, and my point is,. I agree with these points,, but I see the likelihood of action, coming from them as low because they're not highly specific or we didn't do enough homework ourselves to write that parallel. Guideline.

A

Curt brown, osbt: caroline go ahead.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: and,, just to clarify phil, did you say that see you house, as of now agreed to the.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: delight.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): yeah, there's some things in our code that are intended for a private property owner that we're going to have to tweak the wording,. The standards will stay, just so that it works in this particular case..

L

Phil kleisler (cob): and I am looking and I'm seeing language around pro hip prohibitions of you know any lamp or bold, except for seasonal displays, which is visible beyond the property line on which is located.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, so there's, I think, taking those concerns and doing another run through the city's code would be helpful,. I think we understand them pretty. Well.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:. So how kind of like what you were saying for the city council to go back and create an entirely new ordinance for them,? It seems that they wouldn't need to do that if they decided to strike the recreational facilities and what you were saying with the housing that they want and the.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: academic buildings that it would hold true, but it,. It would bring in more complexity, to have the.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): yeah, we., phil, kleisler (cob):. We prefer in the or in the annexation or notes and probably say to reference a code and then, as amended, and so, as we make tweaks. That also applies to this property and the lighting code doesn't does address the residential, commercial and public uses.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, and so it's there if they're not.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): stringent, if we can, let's, let's talk about it, if there's concerns about seeing that light and that trespassing, what that might the implications of the open space, but then I.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: can, we can we say residential lighting, code.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, rather than then a commercial in what are the.

C

Three words.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): yeah, so there's it really covers everything: residential commercial, mixed use, public or current ordinance, yeah.

L

Curt brown, osbt: so just be specific. Now regarding the recreation fields.

A

Curt brown, osbt: there's nothing. I mean,. Let me ask you: is there anything in the annexation agreement as you're anticipating it now that would prohibit them from putting up lights on the recreation fields, so that they could be used at nighttime.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: know, I mean it seems that much as clear I'm just I'm just pointing out that.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I think we're where you're headed in the right direction, but I'm wondering who's going to do the work to actually figure out how to codified.

A

Curt brown, osbt: phil's gonna do that.

C

Phil kleisler (cob): yeah., karen hollweg, osbt:. I feel it is what you said earlier that I'm see you has agreed to abide by the the.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: residential standards that are in the code.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, I'm saying all of them, because we'll see some residential as well,, which would include limits to any lighting paul's for recreational use, whether that's public or private.,.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I'm not clear what you just said.

C

karen hollweg, osbt:. They have more specifically.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, so no we we are right, now, or anticipating. If it's a commercial use, the commercial standards would apply,. So if it's an academic us or something like that,, if it's a residential use in the residential standards, would apply.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: okay,, so if they, if they get into I'm using the public and commercial lighting standards, that's going to have virtually no protection for the open space. Lands.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's all. karen hollweg, osbt:. If they it's only if they're required to stay with the residential standards that I would feel comfortable. Leaving with this compliance with the city, residential standards.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: see,. I think the language should be as rigorous as we can make it and how to your point,, you know. Somehow we came up with the lumen and audio standards for the regulations.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, we can come up with more rigorous ones, and you know bear people that do that, and so that's what I'm saying that we should send that message to council that we don't think the current regulations are sufficient to mitigate the potential impacts on open space. From this development.-.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: that that sentence sounds really concise to me. I maybe we should kind of open up right with that to introduce.

A

Curt brown, osbt: girl, and you want to jump in.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, even if they want it., caroline miller, osbt:, to be compliant or agreed to residential lighting.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, depending on crowds.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:: how would we regulate that? So if the city came to a conclusion for light and sound, and everyone was okay with that, but then three times a week, there's an event.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, with x amount of people.

N

caroline miller, osbt:. You know.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, when I think that's why I asked phil if.

A

Curt brown, osbt: there was any expectation that the university would be installing fields lights for nighttime use and fields,, because I think that's a very specific area, or example where we would be very concerned..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, maybe it's time to abort this discussion about number five and take a little sidebar trip and consider caroline's wording for a number six.

A

Curt brown, osbt: karen, I just want to give chick fil a chance to he never did get a chance to reply to my question about athletic fields. Lighting.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, I am I'm missing, I'm thinking, yes,, but the rec fields are still up in the air. We haven't gotten a response, about the location of them, and I think once we.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): can resolve that we would move into some of those more specific standards right now. The outdoor lighting code does allow for or you could happen.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, yeah., curt, brown,, osbt: and so dave you folks added or karen added.

A

Curt brown, osbt: to a point about the standards, must define exactly how lighting and noise will be confined solely within the property boundaries,, and that certainly would not allow for athletic fields. Lighting for nighttime events- I guess that's why you are going in that direction.

A

Right. curt brown, osbt: and I can see your point.

A

Curt brown, osbt: caroline.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:: it's not what we're talking about with noise and light, so don't don't shoot the messenger,, but when they I just don't want it to get lost in the discussion that the other portion. That really concerned me as they were talking about.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, the grading. You know it has to be specific, for their sports field, and if they are allowed to have it to whatever degree necessary to make it.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: what it needs to be for sports, to be able to be done on there,, how? How does that.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: impact us as well,, like with with.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: run off or you know I just.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): yeah brandon brandon team is responsible for that. I see him actually logging on right now,, so he might be able to.

L

Caroline miller, osbt: type brandon.

L

phil kleisler (cob):, but I think brandon. Actually I just wrote down. I think what I'm really hearing is a real concern around glare around like if you were specifically to measure it like lumens at the property line and so some.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): specific things to look for to enforce it,, because that's what we're looking to do and and receiving like a lighting cut sheet with their plans to review and stuff like that, and so.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):. This is helpful to hear those concerns.

L

A

Curt brown,, osbt: and, and you know we're really happy that you guys are here to hear this,, but we need to finish and vote on emotion to counsel, and so I guess we're trying to figure out,. I mean.

A

Curt brown, osbt: one way to do this,, and maybe this is the direction that was going,, but I don't know I'm.

A

Curt brown, osbt: just to say we,. We feel strongly that noise and lighting needs to be designed and managed so that it doesn't escape the property lines for all of these good reasons that we mentioned in the first paragraph.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I guess kurt I'm slightly in a different spot. My point is: when you read the code, they define at the property line, a level of lumens and a level of decibels that can leave a property line. This place, it will be visible. The light coming off of it could be seen from space.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, through the sound will, so what we need to do is to get moving on the motion, for me at least, I think, is like the sentence that says how lighting and noise will be confined solely within the property boundaries, since that's just not possible to say how lighting and noise will be.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, measured., hal hallstein osbt: in in folders at the property line,, something that we can actually achieve her. Do you know.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah no,, I understand, about making this something. That's concrete and measurable and references.

A

Curt brown, osbt: a regulation,. I think one of the things we're grappling with is the city lighting standards allow for a lot of things,, including having nighttime lip ball field of seven days. A week.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and I think. curt brown, osbt: we're trying to figure out.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: seven days, a week. curt brown, osbt: for right. karen hollweg, osbt: yeah, as opposed to residences.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: and so,: how do we grapple with that? I I'm not sure I think.

A

Curt brown, osbt: there is an effort to describe what our interests are,, which is to not have a lot of light and noise pollution that doesn't exist today. That would significantly affect the experience on opens. Face.

A

Curt brown, osbt: um.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so I mean that's in the first couple of sentences and we could you know we can just leave it at that,, recognizing that we can't endorse a particular.

A

Curt brown, osbt: city code, because we're not sure what that would allow. So we just end up stating strongly our concerns about noise and light pollution. That's one approach.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: out, unless you.

N

caroline miller, osbt:, think otherwise. I feel like to to do what you want to do,, which is to put numbers on it and be able to start talking about it, the,. The only way to really do that. As far as I see it right now is to make it residential for the housing and the academic buildings.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: and.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I don't think we have to do that. Necessarily I'm just saying I think it's poorly written constructed by using an impossibility in the language of emotion, and it shows lack of sophistication by our board to understand what the actual outcome might be or look like.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: right, no,. I agree with you.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, with that point I just.

N

hal hallstein osbt:. Can we gotta try,? Can I can I try just a friendly amendment.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, really quickly. curt, brown,, osbt:, yeah see., hal hallstein osbt:, to see point where I'm headed. hal hallstein osbt: in the sentence that says how lighting and noise will be confined solely within the property boundaries.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, you could say how lighting and noise will be limited in measured at the property boundaries.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I think that's helpful dave. The next thing you say, though, I'm assuming this was a sentence,. You would propose. The next thing it says is meet city regulations, well, city regulations, kind of allow a whole lot of noise and light to go everywhere. So.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I'm almost.

A

curt, brown,, osbt:, leaning towards dropping out references to city regulations, unless we just want to say, the open space board is concerned that city regulations would not be sufficient to protect open space from substantial noise and light pollution.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah, I'm okay with that, I'm in fact even okay with house suggestion.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: if,. As long as we can put some kind of language in there,, it said, needs to be limited to the extent possible, or something like that.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: to minimize impacts. It just strikes me that.

F

Karen hollweg, osbt: to weaselly. dave, kuntz, osbt:, well we're gonna we're going to end up with a young councils, use doing a shrug and saying well.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: already got the regulation.

F

dave, kuntz, osbt:. I think we ought to. We ought to make it clear that this year requires more rigorous regulatory.

F

Curt brown, osbt:, treatment. dave, kuntz, osbt:, then currently exists.

F

dave, kuntz, osbt: and I don't know what those are. But someone should be able to determine those.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: this anyone else need a five minute. Break.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yes,, yes and. curt, brown, osbt:, and I think it will help us to think about this too,. So, let's, let's be in recess until 915 and we'll all come back with really good wording.

A

Curt brown, osbt: thank you. karen hollweg, osbt: thank you.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, welcome back and caroline. Thank you very much for making emotion, to.

A

Caroline miller, osbt: it.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,. I I'm going to propose something,, because I understand very well that this is where tom isaacson would have come up with three sentences that beautifully captures everything we're thinking, so.

A

Curt brown, osbt:: this is my attempt.

A

curt brown, osbt:. What I'm basically going to what I'm trying to do here is retain the first couple of sentences that talk about how critical.

A

Curt brown,, osbt:, the quiet and the darkness is for the open space that we wrote in the original the original motion and then I'm just going to try to add a couple sentences that captures our general concern. So here we go.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, the topic is minimizing light and noise pollution from the sea of south development and I'm keeping the first two sentences. I think it's the first two sentences.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah., curt brown, osbt:. I will read it,, though the cu south development has the potential to significantly degrade the habitat quality and the visitor experience on the ios me slash. State natural area.

A

Curt brown, osbt: by introducing light and noise pollution that does not exist today. Currently, this area is very quiet and has relatively good dark skies,, which are both important features of our open, space.

A

Curt brown, osbt: now here's my attempt at a general statement of concern that the council and staff would try to convert into specific, negotiated agreements.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: osb t is concerned that adherence only to the city's lighting and noise ordinances may not be sufficient to protect the special user experiment. Experience and habitat.

A

Curt brown, osbt: in the adjoining open space areas, the city should take steps to ensure that the universe, you will minimize light and noise impacts on adjacent lands,, particularly, for example, from nighttime lighting or amplified sound systems which might otherwise be allowed under city codes..

A

Curt brown, osbt: caroline.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:. I think it's also important to highlight the disappearance of wildlife due to a lot of noise. And, second,. You know a lot of people go out to open space to see the animals and if.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, we constantly are disturbing their habitat,. They are going to go elsewhere,, as we kind of see now with you know. The dogs on space.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so I've got that first sentence,. It says.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, always speaking, is concerned, adherence only.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. Now I'm going to go back to the first sentence,, so we say this use our development as a potential to significantly degrade the habitat quality. Should I insert after that wildlife populations, or we could say, reduce.

D

Curt brown, osbt:, the habitat quality.

A

Curt brown, osbt: reduce the habitat quality.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I would say comma presence of wildlife comma, and the visitor experience.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: insane the disappearance of wildlife that that were disappearance of wildlife due to it.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: speaks loudly.

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,. I think that's what we're saying we're saying that there's the noise and light pollution could reduce habitat quality presence of wildlife and the visitor experience.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, I see what you're saying it does make sense. I just feel like that. Saying.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: using sorry,, can you read it recent freak injury.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah,. This is the first, the first sentence,. It would say. The cu self development has the potential to to significantly reduce.

A

Curt brown, osbt: the habitat quality presence of wildlife and the visitor experience on the open space natural area by introducing light and noise pollution that does not exist. Today.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: reduce habitat quality, discreet on that reduce habitat quality and then to to.

A

Curt brown, osbt: that it reduces habitat quality, presence of wildlife and the visitor experience.

N

Caroline miller,, osbt: or increasing disappearance- I don't know I just feel like.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, at least in my habit. You everyone else, can weigh in but.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the stem, is significantly degrade.

A

Curt brown,, osbt:, yeah or right.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, all those things are significantly degraded.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the habitat quality, is significantly degraded,, the presence of wildlife is significantly degraded and the visitor experience is significantly degraded.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, it's like when you hear presence of wildlife. If you're reading it not carefully.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: it could not.

N

caroline miller, osbt: transfer the same,, even though we know we're all saying you know.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: that it would reduce animal population in the area.

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,. What if we say.

A

Curt brown, osbt: reduce the habitat quality wildlife populations and the visitor experience.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so it's reducing wildlife, populations.

C

A

Curt brown, osbt: is that better.

A

Curt brown, osbt: so general thoughts about this approach. It's got two sentences about why this area can be significantly damaged by noise and light pollution, and then it goes on to say we. We don't think these open space, values.

A

Curt brown, osbt: will be necessarily protected or that.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, the city's lighting and noise ordinances may not be sufficient to protect these values and then that the city should take steps to ensure.

A

Curt brown, osbt: a minimal light and noise impacts on jason lands,, particularly, for example, from nighttime lighting or amplified sound systems which might otherwise be allowed under city codes and I'm happy to expand this,. This is just.

A

Curt brown, osbt: an effort to shorten it and to not be particularly endorsing city codes, because we're not sure if they would be sufficient.

A

Curt brown, osbt: one way or the other.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, but the only thing that I would like to suggest kurt.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: is., karen hollweg, osbt:, not many.

C

karen hollweg, osbt: not be sufficient, but will not be sufficient.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay got it, so it would say. Osb k is concerned that adherence only to the city's lighting and nose noise ordinances will not be sufficient.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, and can I make a suggestion, there? You should say and discreet requirement requirements will be required to preserve open space. Values.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: to just be clear that we're going to be looking out for discrete requirements.

A

A

curt brown, osbt:. I could change the second sentence, and the second paragraph, to say the city should develop.

A

Curt brown, osbt: discrete.

A

A

Curt brown, osbt: to ensure., curt, brown,, osbt:, great, so I'll, read that sentence and see if it strikes you how the city? Well, I'm going to read the whole paragraph again.

A

Curt brown, osbt: oh,, I speak, is concerned, adherence only to the city's lighting and noise ordinances will not be sufficient to protect the special use, experience and habitat in the adjoining open space. Areas.

A

Curt brown, osbt: the city should develop discrete requirements to ensure that the university will minimize light and noise impacts on adjacent lands,, particularly, for example, from nighttime lighting or amplified sound systems which might otherwise be allowed under city codes..

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: is, it will minimize or is it will prevent.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. Well, it's a fair question. Um.

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,, we could say prevent significant light and noise impacts. So we're not saying you'll completely avoid photons escaping the property.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: I rather like that, though, kurt.

A

A

curt brown, osbt: to ensure that the university will.

A

Curt brown, osbt: prevent., curt, brown,, osbt:, significant., curt brown,, osbt: light and noise impacts under jason, lambs.

A

Curt brown, osbt: leah. Are you tracking any of what I'm saying here.

C

Cob leah case:, but I think.

C

karen hollweg, osbt: she's got it all,. You know yeah.

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,, I tell you what.

A

curt brown, osbt: kurt yeah go ahead.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I am a couple of questions,. I think we ought to use the word specific rather than discreet.

D

Curt brown, osbt:, okay, yeah.

F

Dave kuntz,, osbt:, discreet kind of, is a little funky. I think in this context.

D

Dave kuntz,, osbt: and then significant. You know we're going to get in the weeds again with significant because well that's not significant..

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, and so I guess,, I would just say, let's leave that were that adjective off for out. If you look at the charter,, if we are talking about section 176 open space purposes,, he does say preservation of land for its aesthetic or passive recreational value..

N

Caroline miller, osbt: and his constant contribution to the quality of life of the community,. So you know it's it's preventing perhaps with some homeowners until are filling this week,. You know we don't know what that for open, space.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I don't have any idea what you just said.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: portion of what we were coming up with wording, it is that it's written under 176 h in our charter. I just like to refer back to our charter as much as possible,, because it just seems to keep everything on track.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah, never a bad idea., curt, brown, osbt:, so dave you're, saying strikes significant, just say, prevent light and noise impacts, and I guess the question for how is: does that sound too much like you're putting up a barrier to all photons.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: no. hal hallstein, osbt: no,. I think that's a huge step in the right direction of giving good advice to do something. That's actually possible. I'm happy with that.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: okay, so prevent light and noise impacts language. Okay, with you, okay, I'm.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: encouraged. I had one other quick question: on.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: on the wildlife deal,. We should just say wildlife you. So I can't remember what the wording is. But.

D

Curt brown, osbt: yeah real good.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: quality, while my views and yeah whatever.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah, I think that's.

A

curt brown, osbt:, because because you're right, we can displace populations and that may stay the same size, but they won't be in this area. Anymore.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, which I think is what caroline was getting to.

A

Curt brown, osbt: so.

A

Curt brown, osbt:: do you want another reading of that? Are we sort of okay to continue on.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,, because eventually I or leah I hope it's leah will read this whole day. Well, she'll put it up on the screen and so will will give everybody a chance to read the whole thing carefully when it's up on the screen before we move to a final motion.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: I'll, be happy kurt if we can get the words migrating photons in there. Somewhere.

F

Curt brown, osbt: okay,. What about alpha particles.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, if well,, that would work to go and.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: my question,, my question is whether we are eliminating.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the last two sentences of the current number five.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and that's where it says the university has multiple venues.

C

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,. So what I mean it's a fair question, karen. What I did is to simply say.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, we're not sure ordinances will be sufficient to prevent nighttime lighting or amplified sound um.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I understand that this is. curt brown, osbt:, you know. karen hollweg, osbt:, sort of a supplemental statement that says, there are other places, use them and not this place.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, so you're proposing that we take basically.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I think it is the last two sentences yep.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: retain the last two sentences.

A

Curt brown, osbt: I'm dealing with both a pdf and word document.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: too many documents. curt, brown, osbt:, yeah okay.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt: those pdfs.

A

curt brown, osbt:. So I'm going to put another word in here there, I'm going to say we said, for example, nighttime lighting, I'm going to say nighttime sports lighting.

A

Curt brown, osbt: because there.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: isn't lighting for for some guys, some kind of strobe lighting for a rock concert. Equally objectionable.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. Well, I'm just afraid that nighttime lighting could be your your light over your door that lights up your porch so.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: well,, the last two sentences. Don't have anything like that in them,, so you must be in a different part of the document.

A

Curt brown, osbt: well, the last year said since I've got is such systems should be strictly prohibited? Is that right.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: no,, the university has multiple venues on existing campuses, for.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt:, our petitions that require amplified sound systems, see you sell, should not be used for these types of activities.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I'm gonna, then I'm going to suggest we add effort and flight sound systems.

A

Curt brown, osbt: and curt brown, osbt: nighttime lighting.

A

Curt brown,, osbt:, okay, I'm gonna, see if I can read all this karen cuz, I like what you've done here. I'm just trying to.

A

Curt brown, osbt: adjust a couple of words,, so the last sentence was that we.

A

Curt brown, osbt: the city should develop specific requirements to ensure that the university will prevent light and noisy impacts on adjacent lands.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, particularly, for example, from nighttime sports lighting or amplified sound systems which might otherwise be allowed under city codes..

A

Curt brown, osbt: then, to go on the university has multiple venues on its existing campuses for musical events and sports competitions that require amplified sound systems and or nighttime lighting see you sow, should not be used for these types of activities.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so all I did was take the tooth last sentences and add nighttime lighting up.

A

Curt brown, osbt: to it to make sure we've got parallel between those.

A

Curt brown, osbt: last few sentences.

E

Curt brown, osbt: and now. curt brown,, osbt: yeah, but yeah I'll go ahead., hal hallstein, osbt: I,. I support this, I'm not going to resist it,, but I do just want to point out karen and kirk.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: that improvement in the., hal hallstein, osbt: ecosystem cost transparency area,. We decided to just drop some sentences that that I had proposed related to why to adopt a more specific demand.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: and just for you know, parallel purposes,. I think what you stated, is very much true,, but I just want to flag that I feel like we should decide if we're going to do lies or not do lies.

E

Curt brown, osbt: because. hal hallstein osbt:. I think we should continue and run with this,, but I hope you see what I'm saying.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I do see what you're saying: how is it in those last year since we've gone beyond saying what our concerns are to saying how the university should manage its properties.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, because the strongest sentence, there is such system should be strictly prohibited on csl.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, what they're doing elsewhere is a bit of it's not as much of our concern. I don't believe.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,, so you're saying,. If I get your right,, the second last sentence, you would strike, is being a little bit.

A

Curt brown, osbt: going over the fence. The university has multiple venues: la la la la la.,.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so., hal hallstein osbt:. That's not a I'm, not asking..

E

Hal hallstein osbt: you to strike it. I'm just saying I ecosystem cost transference. You guys struck something similar mind.

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,, but it's, I think strategically. It's not a bad suggestion. Karen do you see where we're going here is that we would drop that sentence, and it would just go to say see you sow, should not be used for these types of activities.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: um does the previous sentence make clear what these types of activities is talking about.

A

Curt brown, osbt: well,, it says nighttime sports, library.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: heated up on the screen.

C

karen hollweg, osbt: can leah put it up on the screen.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yes,, you can try.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. I think your question is a good one karen, I I'm not sure it's completely clear,! Well, when you drop out that sentence. What these types of activities is and, to the extent that you can enlarge that leah, it would be enormously appreciated.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: and I'm serious if you'd like to keep it, I'm not resisting it all. Just.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt:, okay, we're either doing wise or we're not doing wise.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah well,. I appreciate your tolerance for this, how um,, but I also appreciate very much your point.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so karen, I will leave it up to you, you're. The author.-.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. If you want to leave this and I think how will accommodate that.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay, is this: people have a chance to scan that whole paragraph is sufficient to protect the special experience.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay.

A

curt brown, osbt:, I'm gonna ask leah to switch back to the.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: hold on hold on hold on I'm, not ready.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, my fault, sorry leah.,.

P

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the city, should develop specific requirements to ensure the university.

A

Curt brown, osbt: aaliyah. There is a couple words: they got dropped out because we were doing so much here.

A

Curt brown, osbt: 1234, the fifth line up from the.

A

Curt brown, osbt: bottom yeah, you got it there,, it should read light and noise impacts on adjacent lands,, particularly for example.

A

Curt brown, osbt: from because we're not just talking about this we're saying the general requirement is to prevent light. Noise impacts on adjacent lands, particularly comma, for example,, comma, from nighttime sports.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and then go directly to the sentence that says see you sow, should not be used for these types.

A

Curt brown, osbt: know how is saying to leave that next to last sentence, and if you want.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, it was, it was really just more, a point on our board philosophy,. Do we stick strictly to what we're going to be requiring or we get into what explaining a lot about why,? And we in earlier in this, we remove some language about why.

C

Hal hallstein osbt:, I am honored and respected them,. You know.

C

Curt brown, osbt: and I'm. fine., karen hollweg, osbt:, I'm fine with deleting the highlighted sentence and just going with that one. If that's what you want to do.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: yeah,, it seems, at least that's consistent.,.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, I agree.

A

curt brown, osbt:, okay, anybody else have any.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: day., karen hollweg, osbt: caroline., I'm good.

P

Caroline miller, osbt:, I'm good.

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,. Thank you all aaliyah. Can you go back to the and we'll see where that takes us, then that takes us. If I'm reading this right to number, is it six.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: yes.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. Thank you. Trails.

A

Curt brown, osbt: yeah, yeah helen sorry., hal hallstein, osbt: yeah. I I.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: promised a little.

E

hal hallstein osbt: little resistance here and I'm going to make good on that promise right. Now, thank you.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, so I I fully understand the sentiment behind this proposal, and that is that we're. If we do our job well, we're going to have a sensitive piece of wildlife habitat that will need.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, very careful, visitation, usage, management.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, and so I start by honoring that stepping back a little bit to the bigger picture. You know the open space board is attempting to.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: create a deal that not only will be beneficial for the whole south boulder creek ecosystem complex, but one also that, I think see you eventually will see, is very beneficial to its own interests..

E

Hal hallstein osbt: that they'll they'll see that it's a beautification of their property they'll see that the view shed that you're talking about enhances the value of that property they'll see actually that this is a very good outcome for them.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, given that this land was purchased and fee simple by the university bygones, be bygones about the history of how that occurred, and that we are going to be asking them to you know, contribute a significant portion of it to our endangered species. Restoration.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, I do not have any problem with them being at the table to discuss how their student body is going to benefit from that work,, and I know it's not your intention.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: in writing this to say that we're trying to put up a wall or block access to it,. Nor is it my intention to say we should put any trails where the ecosystem don't intend them to be.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, given that we've made a lot of comments about how we'd, like a more harmonious relationship with the university and their environmental department.,.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: about what we're doing here. It's my personal view that we really actually would like a beautiful conversation with the university.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: about something that's going to work well for everybody, and that will represent a compromise between the preservation and the ability to go see the bird populations that hopefully, will be using this area, not only for college students but for general, older residents..

D

Curt brown, osbt: and karen I will let you talk about your genesis of your concern, here,, because I,. I think there is a middle ground but go ahead. Karen.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I would be happy to have another section that talks about collaboration and cooperation on the restoration and the learning experiences that could be provided, etc, and.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: my., karen hollweg, osbt: experience over the last three or four years with see us concept of trails and the.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: linkages from the cu south campus to the open space in mountain park. State natural area.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: stem from a meeting that was held on the east campus.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I want to say, four years, ago.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, where see you had maps which showed multiple arrows coming from the cu south campus over to the state natural area.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and all the charter purposes and management principles for open space and mountain parks and for state natural areas indicate that that is just an outright non starter, and so the guiding principles when they were in draft form.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: got added a new sentence, which says.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: all trails will follow the standard or smp process for creation of new trails.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and the current.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: term sheet., karen hollweg, osbt:, makes it clear that trails will be created at the sole discretion of osm, p and o spt, or something to that effect. It uses the term sole discretion.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and that's what I think we need to reiterate: here.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so karen, is that your perception that the term sheet says what we're saying um the obvious question is well,, then why do we need to say it? um What you're feeling.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, because we need to be clear and strong.

A

Curt brown, osbt: wouldn't be politic to say, that.

A

Curt brown, osbt: the usb key agrees with the statement in the guidelines,, the annotation guidelines that says a b and c.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, if that language is already been adopted.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: the language and the guiding principles, is.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: trail connections to open space trails.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: would follow a typical city, public process.

G

Curt brown, osbt: hmm. cob, dan burke: karen, if I could jump in my my main issue with how this is written,, is that the sole discretion of the department and the board are.

G

Cob, dan burke: typical process when we deal with a. cob, dan burke: fairly robust trial planning area is, you know we do get input from stakeholders and ultimately we typically go to counsel.

G

Cob, dan burke: part of that decision making process.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, but in the current I'm looking for right now, just a minute.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: karen, while you're looking mass dan, a question., curt, brown,, osbt: or yeah.

N

um., caroline miller, osbt:, you feel like where the negotiation is or where it's going in is that they for lack of a better way to put it,. They will get their own fence or they will get their own finances their own access to open, space.

G

Cob, dan burke: phil- I don't know if we, if we've had that level of detail of toxin negotiations, about.

G

Cob, dan burke: fences that swing both ways: fences that swing gates that swing one way, um.

G

Cob, dan burke: I I.

G

cob, dan burke:. I don't think we probably have had that level of conversation,, but I may be wrong.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, if it came off their property., caroline miller, osbt:, most city residents are aren't going to dry,. It would be.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, it's it seems like to me. It would be almost exclusively for students to be able to use that so,. Then it would seem to me like it's pretty darn tense,, but I don't. I just want a.

G

Cob, dan burke: certain way, if there's., cob, dan burke:, if there's a fence on the boundary and or a gate down the boundary it,, but it would require a license if it was for a specific use, and if it was more generally, the gate would swing. Both.

A

Curt brown, osbt:: let's have shells thoughts.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):. I don't recall something like that: dan either.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): other than what we what you just mentioned around the approval process. For that we did note that.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): all the fences and other.

L

Phil kleisler (cob): pieces of infrastructure on the open space property need to basically.

L

Phil kleisler (cob):, no trespassing, basically a clause.

A

Curt brown, osbt: karen did you have language? You want to endorse that you're seeing.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, a I'm on.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: term sheet item 29.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: the staff response from february 2.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, which says any roads or trails on land conveyed to the city,, including any potential potential connectors to adjacent city, open space.,.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: will either be designated by the city and become a part of the city's open space system or abandoned by restoring the underlying land at the city's expense.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: designated roads and trails will need to be accessed from designated trail heads and access points.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, oh s&p staff, would like to remind see you have the following colon all snp: fences and boundaries must be respected at all. Times.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and no gates trail connections or other access points will be allowed from the ceo property on just city, open space without prior prior approval, from the open space board of trustees and in accordance with the gate policy of osm p.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:- and this is the section, where it says final- disturb determination of any of the above,- will be at the city's sole discretion.

A

Curt brown, osbt: so., curt brown, osbt:. I mean it's there's some. I think what we're saying is we're in agreement with those statements of from staff on february 2, um.

A

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I just think we need to have it as a clear statement from the board.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, several of these things are already mentioned in the.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: term sheets,- and this is a really important one- that I don't think we can just ignore.

C

Hal hallstein osbt: and I guess. karen hollweg, osbt: I'm,. As I said, before,, I'm all in favor of an item number seven that waxes eloquent about.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, you know all the possible learning experiences for cu students with the restoration work, or.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: that mirrors that mirrors the master plan.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: items that have to do with involvement in city management and restoration of lands and blah blah.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so I'm going to circle back to how and then we'll get caroline, so how.

A

Curt brown, osbt: do you have words that you would propose to., curt, brown,, osbt:, well,, maybe.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, because it because it's contained in the term sheet and because osm p will ultimately make this decision,. If the land is transferred to us and fee simple..

E

Hal hallstein osbt:. I think that this provision in itself.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: and I try to put myself in the shoes of people I negotiate with, stands out more as a stick in the eye.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: as something practical, and I go further to just speak from my own lived experience in college,. I was fortunate to be able to walk out onto a beautiful hillside and my college.

E

Hal hallstein, osbt: and, frankly do what I wanted to do,, whether that be enjoy birdwatching smoking, weed doing all the things that college students do.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, and that was part of what invited me into being an environmentalist, and I think that see you being at the table and consulted about. This is a good thing and I don't believe that we want to build a wall.

E

Hal hallstein osbt: between this property and the university, so I'll just you know, I may well find myself in the minority here,, but I don't think it serves our other big important requests earlier in this document.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, the term sheet contains it and, and I do think see. You should come to the table to talk about this, and we should come up with a beautiful solution.

G

Cob, dan burke: well,, if I may make a suggestion and and the sentence that could include getting voices, such as ceo at the table, is.

G

Cob, dan burke: is towards the end of the sentence,. There would be any trails and osb lands and the regulations that apply to the use of the trial, shelby determine, through typical all smp planning, processes.

G

Cob, dan burke: and typical process would be to seek a recommendation, not approval from the board to seek input from stakeholders to seek input and from staff and probably ultimately to go to. The council.-.

A

Curt brown, osbt: right and we do say at the beginning,, while the city will coordinate with see you and we could say, see you and other stakeholders on various types of blah blah blah.

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Curt brown,, osbt: and then come back to your language. At the end, say right locations and regulations will be identified through normal osm p. Planet process is that what you're suggesting dan.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, because our yeah, because our typical process would be to.

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Cob, dan burke:, listen to the community,, listen to the stakeholders,, listen to the board and listen to staff and go to counsel..

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Curt brown, osbt: caroline jump in now.

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Caroline miller, osbt: and I just want you to clarify for me, for it, the section that we're talking about when I read it.

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Caroline miller, osbt: that the large middle paragraph says, the way that things normally are, but then the way that I'm interpreting the last paragraph is.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, the middle paragraph, is the way that it should be, however, due to the process of annexation negotiation,. If the city says.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: we're going to allow this property to have a trail or am I am I reading this wrong,? Are they saying that they could give the property a trail in the negotiations, without going through the process as normal? Or am I just reading that wrong.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, but what is it that you're reading carolyn.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, when I read the last senate, however, final determination on any of the above,, will be at the city, sole discretion.

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Caroline miller, osbt: base, when it says city did, do they mean.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, oh s&p, staff.

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Caroline miller, osbt: or., caroline miller, osbt: again. at the know. cob, dan burke: typically,, when, when you're in a negotiation between two entities,, the city would encompass so s&p. You know that that's what I was trying to say earlier in the evening, that you know we are the city, we're part of the city, so using the word city would imply. Oh smp.

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Cob, dan burke: okay,- I think I think in this in this sheet, you're putting together outside of the term sheet. I think you're, referring to under this draft language of the motion,. I think it's all. We really need to do. Is.

G

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Caroline miller, osbt:- I was just talking about the term sheet. I just clarify that and say, it will be the city's discretion,, and that means less than p. That's fine,. I just wanted.

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Caroline miller, osbt: to clarify about how you are interpreting that.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, unless, of course we're talking about some acreage of public land, that's going to be owned and managed by utilities and those a man. If there's any talk, about.

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Cob, dan burke: having any sort of trail through the mitigation project which I doubt,. But you know that would capture that as well,, which that would be city, land and the city would have the destruction over in that area. As well.

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Caroline miller, osbt: and that's the area for the., caroline miller,, osbt: fields.,.

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Cob, dan burke: no, no, no, any any of the cu south lands that would be conveyed through annexation,, which would include right now. We're talking also lands and we're also talking lands in order. To.

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Cob, dan burke: accommodate used by utilities department for the flood mitigation project. So it's just not the 119 that would need to be conveyed or that we're asking to be conveyed drastic station. It's utilities needs lands from see you as well, to do their project.

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Cob, dan burke:, so that.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's the pk. You land up in the north right.

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Cob, dan burke: yes,. So if there's any use of those lands, which you know, I I'm not aware of,. But if there is that that city discretion language would apply to that land as well.

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Curt brown, osbt:, so karen here's what I've got up incorporating. I think what dan was saying.

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Curt brown, osbt: and how see if this is.

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Curt brown, osbt: close.

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Curt brown, osbt: I'm going to try to make it two sentences. Now.

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Curt brown, osbt: a second here.

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curt, brown,, osbt: okay,, so this, it would start with the city, will coordinate with see you on various. Now I'm going to start a differently! Sorry give me a second here folks, it's like.

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Curt brown, osbt:, it is expected. It is expected that the city will coordinate with see you and other stakeholders,. Let me write that in here.

A

Curt brown, osbt: on various types of trails and multimodal access within the p, ub and pku slash. Oh areas.,.

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Curt brown, osbt: however,. This is a second sentence: now, however,, the location of any trails on os mp lands and the regulations that applied the use of those trails must be determined through normal osm p planning, processes.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: occurred, can I offer as another suggestion.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah, because I can't figure out why we want to refer to you know pk, yo and pb, and all that I don't know,. I think we should just say location of trails on open space, lands.

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Dave kuntz,, osbt: and the reagan apply will follow the you know. Normal snp planning, processes,, including participation of see you.

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Curt brown, osbt:, oh well,. I absolutely agree with your first suggestion that all this stuff about pub and pku is kind of beside the point. Isn't it.

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Curt brown,, osbt: okay,, so you're saying just have the sentence, it says.

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Dave kuntz,, osbt: location of trails. I think the use of the word annie is you know his house,, maybe not stick in the eye, but toothpick in the eye. It's like location of trails, right.

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Curt brown,, osbt:, okay. dave, kuntz, osbt:, we'll follow the normal snp planning process,, including participation or coordination, will see you.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: in ways to say participation of see you and all stakeholders.

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Dave kuntz,, osbt: yeah, but all stakeholders.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: this negotiation,, this is. see. cob, dan burke:, but yeah.

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Curt brown, osbt: it dan go ahead.

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Cob, dan burke: well,, I mean this is assuming that we're doing a planning process right, have an access point or an entry point or moving an existing trail or adding a trail. I know it's empty lands.

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Cob, dan burke: on the so sure why we would signal out, see you as right as a particular stakeholder that sort of deserve recognition in this. I guess.

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Curt brown, osbt: so. karen hollweg, osbt:. If I get what you're saying,, please say: oh I sampey.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: public planning, process.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,, I was gonna. Do it slightly differently, saying the location of trails and awesome peatlands when the regulations that apply to use those trails must be determined through normal awesome, be planning processes,, including consultation with the public and stakeholders.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah. I think that's fine,. The reason that you put see you in there is what I was saying before. Is there the negotiating partner they're, the property owner they're, the they're, the entity, upon which we're focused on this particular issue.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah. dave, kuntz, osbt:, that's fair,. I think we can. We can just say you know.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, you know, public participation,. I think we ought to acknowledge, see you so that they feel that you know that there is some official role for them.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: in the process, what.

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Cob, dan burke: about the and a curse, including see you.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, yeah., cob, dan burke: yeah. I know that I can stay colors, including see you.

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dave, kuntz,, osbt: right, no that'd be fine.

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Curt brown, osbt:, so the way I had it until three seconds ago.

A

Curt brown, osbt: regulations that apply to use these trails must be determined to normal osm p. Public planning processes,, including consultation with, and I was going to say the university to call it out. Specifically.

A

Curt brown, osbt: but.

D

Curt brown, osbt:, we said public planning, processes.

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Curt brown, osbt:, including consultation with the university, is that sufficient.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: and works for me.

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curt, brown, osbt: karen,. We need to go back to you, because this was yours, to start with.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: okay,, the the point of the point of the first.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: part of the sentence or the first sentence, if it was broken, apart.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: was because that's an issue for see you that's pointed out in the existing term sheet,, so I understand that you all want to eliminate reference to the.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: various trails and multimodal access in the pb and pk yo areas, and that's okay with me. If you don't want to.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: consider that,, and then I think what you have for for the sentence under number. Six trails is location of trails on osm, p lands and the regulations that apply to the use of those trails will will be term determined through the normal osm p. Public planning, process.

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Curt brown, osbt:, including consultation with the university.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: including., karen hollweg, osbt: well,, you had had,, including public and stakeholders,, including see you.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah- I just simplified it because I had public planning processes,, including consultation with the university.

E

Hal hallstein osbt:, can I make one suggestion and. hal hallstein osbt: option that it's in the term sheet? Is we just yank the whole piece.

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Curt brown, osbt: up well,. One thing is that we we can't rely on the term sheet, as as, if it were the annexation guidelines that all parties have agreed to.

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Curt brown, osbt: a document and flock so.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: there's no agreement on the trails part. If you read the details, it's okay, standoff.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: in- and I think this is an issue- be important for the board.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah.

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Curt brown, osbt:, okay, karen so., curt, brown, osbt:. We had the location of trails on all s&p lands and the regulations that apply to the use of those trails, and I'm going to say the word must I don't want to say will, because we don't know if it will were recommended to counsel, that it must.

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Curt brown, osbt: must be determined through normal smp public planning processes,, including consultation with the university.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's fine., curt, brown,, osbt:, okay, now leah I'm going to read that one last time.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, the location of trails on all smp lands and the regulations that applied at the use of those trails must be determined through normal os mp. Public planning processes,, including consultation with the university.

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Curt brown, osbt:, she's nodding.

O

Cob leah case: yeah I've got that is that going to be the sole.

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Curt brown, osbt:, that's the full.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's all of number six period.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay., curt, brown, osbt:. Now that we've worked our way through all of these things, I need to go back and ask caroline.

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Curt brown, osbt:. What do you think.

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curt? Brown, osbt:? You raise some pretty broad issues in your concerns and the question is,. Have we address the concerns? Efficiently.

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Caroline miller, osbt:. I think that a lot of what we are talking about.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: relates a lot to.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, the 30 year, 34 acres of sports and what that can bring to the area.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, you know I always say that I will not my children to be able to be grownups and enjoy open space,, and you know, get to be a grandmother here and see. It.

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Caroline miller, osbt: and you know, expansion is just what is going to happen,. So I think you know if you've lived in boulder for 30 years. You know I've lived here, too.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so if you lived here for 30 years, you probably have seen how projects start, maybe small and get bigger and bigger.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so it's it really is just for the protection of open space and what the community of boulder wants for it down the road so today,. It might be a collegiate cross country field and in 30 years it will not be that.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah.

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Hal hallstein osbt: can I just comment back quickly on that.

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hal, hallstein, osbt:, yeah, caroline. The way I reconcile this is that the department has been clear that if we can get the outcomes that we've been sort of enumerating.

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Hal hallstein osbt: that they feel that it is an opportunity for open space to really make good on a larger south, boulder creek drainage, restoration, plan.

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Hal hallstein osbt:- and I just worry personally that going into that level of specificity on a private landowners usage has the potential to be something that would undo.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, something that the department is dis has basically stated is valuable, and so I just I just worry about it, it's,, not that I don't agree,, but I just worried that it jeopardizes the negotiation yeah.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, I mean I,. I agree with everything I said and I agree with everything that.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, you know it.

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caroline miller, osbt:, it's one of those things that it's you know,, and I think that the issue is what I heard council express and what I read in the terms is that there's just not a lot of open dialogue,, so it makes it really difficult to know.

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Caroline miller, osbt: the terms that will be presented,, you know it,, it starts as one thing and then, since we didn't come to really good specific outcomes, a stick, you know, stadium does start getting built.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I think you're talking about annexation, creep.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so I mean we it's a lot. It's it's a big statement,, but again I'm just trying to think of the future of open space and and what that 30 or 34 acres will turn into.

N

Caroline miller,, osbt: and and just knowing what the traffic will will do, you know and again what we're supposed to do with our charter and protecting open space, while we're on the board,. But I see what you're saying how it's it's it's a lot to add in there, I mean.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I'm I'm gonna, ask phil chrysler if he wants to say anything about this. It's a very tough issue to get your arms around so phil.

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Phil kleisler (cob): yeah well, the thing that perked my ears was the stadium,, and so I can definitely confirm that. There's not gonna be any of those sorts of things. Happening, but.

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Phil kleisler (cob): things, a question that will be the new means is around the definitions about: what's not going to be allowed,, and so my hope is that there'll be some more specific. Language will be able to get out.

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Phil kleisler (cob): out to the community and out to the board in the air that will include those definitions and include some specific ways to to know that we're going to get what we think we're going to get.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: mean I don't have any particular.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: reason to say that we shouldn't have a statement in there that we have concerns about the development of athletic fields on on the property. As a.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: as a potential impacts on and joining open, space.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: and you know at least identify that concern and we might not. You know, have any specific issues, right now,, but at least we've identified.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: the concern and we could even say that. We,. We think that more appropriately,, the open areas on the development of the property should be parks or something like that.

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Caroline miller, osbt: and not our financial future and sustainability is a problem that we can't foresee now comes from it and we can't afford to fix it.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: yeah. It gets a little funky, but you.

P

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Curt brown, osbt: I'm trying to come up with a sentence for your issue: here, caroline.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, I mean like we're all saying it's exactly like what how saying about the trails you know it's nice to be able to have dialogue.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, you know,, because open space is so important to boulder and it would be nice to have that community partnership.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, and to have some cohesiveness, with the values that we're trying to.

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Caroline miller, osbt: share, as as all members of the city so.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, that's that's the part that.

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Caroline miller, osbt: worries we and where I feel like. I just need to do my part, which is follow the charter and say this could have really big potential impacts for open space, and since we don't have a lot of good working dialogue as of now,, the ceo it makes me want to speak to that.

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Curt brown,, osbt: and so,: how caroline? How would you describe.

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Curt brown, osbt: what you don't want to have happen on those 30 acres.

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Curt brown, osbt: in terms of open space values and interests.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, what I had written here, was.

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Caroline miller, osbt: research findings presented by staff, detail, underwhelming lee and adequate resources and finances for high risk expansion without value added and meeting societal, societal, partnership.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, so again, it. I know it's a lot, but I'm I feel like everything that we're talking about again with student housing and student buildings are just different than the possibilities that could happen with 34 acres of see what happens.

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Curt brown, osbt:: oh I'm, trying to create a sentence. Them.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, and why would see you want to limit themselves and what they're able to do? What other big, comparable universities to what go ahead? Care.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: they're, not gonna, want to limit limit what they do.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: right doesn't it doesn't benefit them and it's it's a huge area of revenue, so.

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Curt brown, osbt:, the only thing I'll say on the university's behalf, is that.

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Curt brown, osbt: every sport,, except football and men's basketball loses money for the university. Lacrosse doesn't make money for them. Soccer doesn't make money and so.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I don't see it as a revenue issue. I do see it as a well, let's see: where can we put this issue,? You know that they will always try to maximize the use of their lands, for whatever purposes so.

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Curt brown, osbt:. What if we said that the usb key remains concerned.

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Curt brown, osbt: about the ill defined nature of activities, on.

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Curt brown, osbt:, the p ub lands or something like that, and the potential for increasing.

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Curt brown, osbt: open space impact over time. Something like that. Can anybody help me out here.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, and can I totally put you on the spot and ask if there's anything off the top of your head with concerns, for.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, the sports being there is there, something that sticks out to you, or is it.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, not as much of a concern, is maybe I'm.

G

Cob, dan burke: well,, I mean,, I think you know the box address the lighting. The boards address. The sound originally see you as an still could be asking for the 30 acres to go on the oh, so we basically said, not on the oh so.

G

Cob, dan burke:- I think it's clear that they've, I don't know if they would consider it a deal. Breaker but, having sports fields, either at this location or we find them another suitable location is something that they stand by so.

G

Cob, dan burke:, I think, from a negotiation standpoint,. If you all want to kind of put in more of a sentence like kurt reference is fine,. I just don't know what that does from a specific term sheet sort of point.

G

Cob, dan burke: negotiation standpoint, but it provides context.

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Cob, dan burke: me to where the boards coming from,, so I guess it could have that value in terms of.

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Cob, dan burke:, you know them doing something we're all the runoff thing goes on to our property,. I mean,, I think you get into.

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Cob, dan burke: and phil correct me: if I'm wrong or or even brandon, but some stormwater management issues, I mean I don't think you'd be able to.

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Cob, dan burke: just do whatever you want, and your property, and it's just all going to run over to your neighbor's property. Whether that's you know how realistic that is. So.

G

Cob, dan burke:, I think the question for the board right now is is: do you want to just have a context setting or a you actually want to have a specific term that you are.

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Cob, dan burke: trying to guide negotiation on.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, but I'm trying to come up with a general statement, and I am sympathetic to house view that.

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Curt brown, osbt: we're asking for all of us so and we have to be a little careful about now. What we try to tell them they can or can't do on their remaining property.

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Curt brown, osbt:. I think it's fine for us to define our interests and asked that steps be taken to not impact our interest off that property,. But I am a little worried about overreach.

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Curt brown, osbt:, we've, we've said we don't want nighttime lighting and we don't want amplified sound systems.

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Curt brown, osbt:. What? If we just added that we remain concerned about the lack of definition on the range of activities on this property or these lands.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: and, and the risk of of.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: expansion, of.

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Curt brown, osbt: about we said in increased impacts on open space.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: from future development.-.

D

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay,. So let me try reading this we've just finished saying it says the university has multiple venues on its existing campuses are musical events and sports competitions that require.

C

Curt brown, osbt: amplify the sound and your nighttime.

C

karen hollweg, osbt:. We deleted that what you're reading that's been deleted.

C

Curt brown, osbt:. Thank you very much. Um.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, so it just ends by saying see yourself should not be used for these types of activities,. The osb key remains concerned about the lack of definition of the range of activities on these lands and in and.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I'm going to say potential.

A

Curt brown,, osbt: and potential increased impacts on open space from future developments. It's probably too wordy, but that's the idea,, and that would be added to the end of our section on minimizing noise and light pollution.

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Curt brown, osbt: happy to read it again: if.

A

curt, brown,, osbt:, you'd, like., curt, brown,. Osbt: me, the last sentence was see you sow, should not be used for these types of activities,. The osb t remains concerned about the lack of definition of the range of activities on these lands and the potential and potential increased impacts on open space from future developments.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. I think that sounds pretty good.

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Curt brown, osbt:, it's a general expression of concern and it recognizes we don't know everything. We would like to know right. Yeah.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, let's say the word after the range of.

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Curt brown, osbt:, so I'll read it all again. The spt remains concerned about the lack of definition of the range of activities on these lands as potential increased impacts on open space from future developments.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, in the words recreational uses because that's.

P

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's it's the.

A

Curt brown, osbt: should say the. curt, brown, osbt: the range of recreational uses, rather than activities that what you're saying.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, maybe range of recreational uses and other activities.

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Curt brown, osbt: yeah, I was afraid recreational users might be too narrow.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's what I yeah! That's why I want to have other uses but.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,, so right now we say that the the lack of definition of the range of activities on these lands.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, you could say,, especially recreational use.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,, I think we're more worried,, maybe about some other uses. We don't even know about.

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Curt brown, osbt:: that's why I just kept a general the range of activities on these lands,. But what would you like.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, the general statement leads me thinking, all the way from people walking around to god knows what and what started this concern was was the.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: was the item number 11 on the term sheet,, which talks about suitable recreational uses for the area.

A

Curt brown, osbt: that could include rock concerts.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: well. karen hollweg, osbt:, I suppose.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,. What if we said, the lack of definition of the range of allowable activities.

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Curt brown, osbt: on these lands.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, where we haven't defined. What is the range of allowable activities on these lands.

A

Curt brown, osbt: want me to read it again.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, the ott.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: everybody listen,. This is the final reading. Oh.

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Curt brown, osbt: the spt, remains concerned about the lack of definition of the range of allowable activities on these lands and the potential increased impacts on open space for future developments.

A

Curt brown, osbt:. We could replace developments with uses because development sounds too much like buildings,. We could say from future uses.

C

Karen hollweg,, osbt: and or developments.

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Curt brown, osbt: well,. I don't think we want to imply that developments.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I would use development as a singular noun rather than plural.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: right and we've already highlighted you,, so I think it's worth acknowledging potential from development as well.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, really: okay, okay.

A

curt, brown, osbt:, all right.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: when some of these activities that require development.

A

Curt brown, osbt: right, yep, good point, okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt: leo one more time the rsvp remains concerned about the lack of definition of the range of allowable activities on these lands and the potential increase impacts on open space. For future development.-.

A

Curt brown, osbt: she's not and love to see her not.

C

Karen hollweg,, osbt: and and uses future future uses and development.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's both the future use.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: uses., karen hollweg, osbt:, even conceived of and development.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay uses and development and future uses and development, did you get that leah, she's nodding great.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, okay., curt, brown, osbt: anything else, folks.

A

curt, brown, osbt:. I think it's a good,. I think it addresses a significant area of uncertainty that I think is worth highlighting. For council.-.

C

A

Curt brown, osbt: okay. dave kuntz, osbt: thank you,, caroline yeah., curt brown, osbt: thank you,, caroline for bearing with us on this.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: real there.

G

Curt brown, osbt:, well, maybe.

N

Sorry. caroline miller, osbt: question for dan dan. If they.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:, if the city during the agreement, decides.

N

Caroline miller, osbt:. I know that I think all of this would be nice like the draining and detention and all of that that's like utilities,. They wouldn't say that that aren't early, and we had to worry about that. Right.

G

Cob, dan burke: yeah brandon. Do you have any comments, about.

G

Cob, dan burke: that type of thing right.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: that's,, not us.,.

M

Cob brandon coleman: there we go. cob brandon coleman:, so I think caroline you're, at least a few times. I think you've tried to hit it tonight. You're talking about storm water and erosion, control and then permanent stormwater controls associated with development is that.

M

Cob brandon coleman: right or am I missing, that.

N

Caroline miller, osbt: no,, I think you're right, I'm just reading down,. I just want to make sure that none of this has anything to do with our property. So.

M

Cob brandon coleman:, yeah and there's requirements for development related to storm water quality and storm water control and then the ultimate. Ultimately, the flood mitigation project addresses more than hundred year, flood flows.

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Cob brandon coleman:, so they're probably two separate issues and we just have our boulder design and construction standards related to development and how you dress water quality, okay.

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Caroline miller, osbt:, if I think of anything else, I'll I'll email.,.

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Curt brown, osbt:, but whatever.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: like fertilizer and irrigation of of athletic fields.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: run off.

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Cob brandon coleman: yeah so run off. I guess it falls into water quality,, so it's managed under ms for permit,. So we do have design and construction standards related to.

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Cob brandon coleman:, design of detention basins and things of that nature. That kind of address.

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Cob brandon coleman: water quality controls and it's not specific to identified pollutants,, but just more general storm water, quality,. So really talking about water, quality control or the water quality capture volume design. Things like that.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, and it applies to run off from normal, irrigation maintenance, rather than just storms, right.

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Cob brandon coleman:, it's run off.

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cob, brandon coleman:. I don't know if it addresses irrigation maintenance for sure,, because I'd be on the storm water, flood side.

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Cob brandon coleman:, but it would address impervious area. So that's really how that's calculated has changed from existing conditions, increase runoff from increased impervious area,. So not sure I can answer it necessarily exactly on the fields.

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Curt brown, osbt:. I think, karen, that open space would want to look carefully at the boundaries, though.

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Curt brown, osbt: to make sure we're protecting any of our restored areas. From.

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Curt brown, osbt:, as you say,, fertilizer runoff, and things like that,, but it may fall outside of the city's stormwater regs.

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Curt brown, osbt: are we to the point and karen this is to you.

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Curt brown, osbt: do we want to have.

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curt brown, osbt: leah, put the revised motion up for all of us to look at. When would you like to read the whole thing, since my voice is shot or have leo read it.

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Curt brown,, osbt: or whatever.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, um are you saying we need to read the whole thing into the record, or you say.

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Curt brown, osbt: eventually, we will,, but you may just want her to put everything up so that people can take a look at each section. It's it's up to you at this point, since you're, managing the motion.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: well,, if we have to read it into the record as one of the steps of what we're doing,, we might as well do that, while we're reviewing the contents of it. Right.

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Curt brown, osbt: that would be fine, so.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: leah.

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Curt brown, osbt:, you know karen, I would suggest you read it,, because you're going to notice a problem,, perhaps sooner, as the author of much of it,. What do you think.

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Curt brown, osbt:, it's too small for me to read.

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Caroline miller, osbt: karen, if you're, tired, I'm happy to.

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karen hollweg, osbt:, be glad to read it.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, okay, okay for me., curt brown, osbt:, make it as big as you can leah.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, the title is osb t recommendations to counsel or to city council regarding terms.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: of the cu south annexation, perfect.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and then. karen hollweg, osbt: we're going to put what's in brackets in a footnote and put an asterisk at the end of each bracket with the term numbers in it. Right.

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Curt brown, osbt:: that's my memory got it.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: okay, all spt recommends that the following items in the annexation term sheet that specifically impact on smp be addressed prior to counsel action on the annexation terms for see you south, most derived directly from previous osb emotions describing mitigation for the variant one.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: south boulder creek flood control.

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Curt brown, osbt: project today.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: needs to project after.

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Curt brown, osbt:. Thank you. Leah good.,.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, which utilize see you south, oh so, lands and therefore could be affected by annexation. Negotiations.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, others are directed at potential features of a su self development which are not yet defined, but which could significantly affect osm, p resources and the state natural areas, high quality, ecosystems, or the enjoyment of these resources and natural areas by the public.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, this list addresses only annexation, related questions. The spt expects to provide an update to emotions related exclusively to variant one design, construction mitigation and operations at a later date.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: number one land for restoration to offset impacts of variant one,, as stated in previous motions, restoring and reconnecting the entire. Oh, so acreage on cu, south 119, acres.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: back to the south boulder creek floodplain, is a critical requirement to offset variant. One impacts bus,, we believe the entire, oh, so parcel must be transferred to osm p ownership. Restoration of these lands will also require removal of the existing levy.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, what was I going to ask about that.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, oh, dan, it is 119 acres- is that right.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: yes,, okay to transferred costs of floodplain restoration,. The osb t is concerned that the university's previous decisions to separate the.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: land from the floodplain by creating a larger permanent levy by draining these lands and by not just restoring these mine lands, as originally required.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: have all dramatically increase the ultimate costs of floodplain restoration and shifted the costs on to the city,, including the open space os mp.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, this directly reduces the amount and quality of floodplain restoration that can be accomplished by ios mp, with existing resources.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: does it needs to say by the city and osm p, with existing resources. Or.

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Curt brown, osbt:, you could even strike oh smp. You can just say.

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Curt brown, osbt: accomplished with existing resources.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, fine, okay, thanks yeah for for these reasons,. The osb t believes that the university should convey the lso lands to the city and os mp at note charge in order to ensure the feasibility of the flood control project and the reintegration of these lands with the floodplain.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: in return,, the city show smp would make available whatever portion of those lenses needed for the mitigation of any impacts of the university sees south development, unlisted species and wetlands in the pb area.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, the university will fund a mitigation work for their required mitigation acreage. However, osm p would coordinate that work with the larger. Oh, so floodplain restoration, effort.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: one little thing: we refer to university with a big you and a little you and I'm not sure done. Some you'll check that layer, right.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, okay, next page., karen hollweg, osbt: three water rights to support floodplain restoration,. The spt recommends the transfer of the title of the sea water rights associated with the cu south property to the city,, at no cost for osm p, purposes.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and there's a period, no period there, but.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: protective for protecting the south boulder creek view shit views to the west of the south, boulder creek trail.

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Curt brown, osbt: us to the west, from the south korea.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: thank you used to the west, from the south boulder creek trailer, a major feature of this landscape.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, the osb t, is concerned that the analysis of impacts of the seed of south development on this view shed relies upon the existing levy and the trees along it..

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and the dry creek did along it and the dry creek, ditch to screen, the new development,, including buildings to 55 feet, see briefing book. Pdf page 67 views one into.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, the removal of the levy and removal of many of the non native trees, as part of the restoration, will make the ceo south development much more visible from this entire area.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, it is critical, therefore, that the university include landscaping and planning, as part of the development of the pubic area, to screen the structures and protect this existing view. Should.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: five minimizing light and noise pollution from the ceo south development.-.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and I'm wondering if it should say limiting instead of minimizing,. But let me read through it.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: the cu south development has the potential to significantly degrade the habitat quality wildlife use and the visitor experience on the os mp state natural area.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: by introducing light and noise pollution that does not exist today. Currently this areas very quiet and has relatively good dark skies,, which are both important features of our open, space.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: osb t is concerned that adherence to only the city, lighting and noise ordinances will not be sufficient to protect the special use. Experience.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and habitat in the adjoining open space areas,, the city should develop specific requirements to ensure the university will prevent light and noise impacts on the adjacent lands,, particularly, for example, from nighttime sports lighting or amplified sound systems..

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Karen hollweg, osbt: from nighttime sports lighting or amplified sound systems which might otherwise be allowed under city codes, see you sow, should not be used for these types of activities.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, so my question is, is in the title is minimizing the right word. Still.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I I think it's as good as limiting, but neither one is quantitatively defined.

D

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Karen hollweg, osbt: okay,, the osb t, remains concerned about the lack of definition of the range of allowable activities on these lands and the potential increase of impacts on open space from future uses. And development.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, that's good six trails, the location of any trails on osm, p lands and the regulations that apply to the use of those trails must be determined through normal osm p. Public manning processes,, including consultation, diversity.

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Curt brown, osbt: okay,, you put emotion on the table.

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Curt brown, osbt:, because anyone wants to second that.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I can't see people. dave, kuntz, osbt: anymore, I'll second., curt, brown,, osbt:, okay, dave a second to that. um Any further discussion before I call for a boat.

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Curt brown, osbt:. Could you put the board member effect,, so I can see that there's no hands waving at me.

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Curt brown, osbt: ok,. I will call for the vote on this motion. How halston.

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Hal hallstein osbt:, I hope for it., karen hollweg, osbt: karen hallway yes.

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dave, kuntz,, osbt: dave coats, yes., curt, brown,, osbt:, caroline miller., caroline miller,, osbt:, yes., curt brown, osbt: and kurt brown boats, yes,. The motion passes unanimously leah,. Thank you for all of your help,. We appreciate it um any other remarks before we complete this matter or do people have additional matters,? They would like to bring up from the board at this time.

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Curt brown, osbt: any questions on the up coming agendas that have been listed out for a minute. Yeah karen go ahead.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I have some questions on on items that are included in the packet as things that are going to be coming up in the future.

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Curt brown, osbt: mm hmm.

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karen hollweg, osbt: that,. I just want to highlight um yeah.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: in the poor farm for chambers, item.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, it's clear to me that this is just the first step and letting us know what's going on.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: what I have.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, two or three things that I'd like to highlight in terms of staff work on it.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, the first one, is that when this came before council.-.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I guess in. karen hollweg, osbt: three years ago, I'm married you young and others spoke loud and clear. About.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, the queen anne's home and the historic structures and.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: wanted to make sure that that historic denver was involved and historic denver was mentioned somewhere in this memo. I can't see right now exactly where it is.

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Cob, dan burke: but start boulder.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I'm sorry, thank you, historic, boulder um.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, but I want to make sure that I'm.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: that historic boulder is consulted in involved just knowing that that council expects that, and I think it's a good thing to do, from a board perspective as well.

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Karen hollweg,, osbt: and and I'd like to know a little bit more,, and this goes back to our discussion about the consultation with the.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: native tribes, um I'd like to know more about what osm p, is doing in terms of historic structures on properties in general, and.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: what what the status or processes for.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: removal of of structures on open space lands. I know the property- that's just south of his baseline.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: was purchased, knowing that those structures would we're going to be removed,, but I don't know what the status system white is and- and we mentioned during the tribal consultation, discussion.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: the development of a cultural resources plan, I'm assuming that's going to take at least a few years, and I'm wondering if before that we can have just a brief staff report on what the processes for.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: that determination and that kind of action for for structures on open space, slams.

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Cob, dan burke: sure we'd be happy to follow up with something.

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Cob, dan burke:, I think, there's two questions in there,. It seems like it is,. Is there a process or a structure or or a process for determining historic structures and then,? If things get.

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Cob, dan burke:, under that historic, designation what,. How do we tend to deal with it,, but then the other questions ours,? What is our process for determining the fate of buildings and structures,? I know s&p lands.

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Cob, dan burke: that may or may not be historic in nature, is that kind of a dual question.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, it is thank you you're, always so good at telling me what I.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: was trying to say.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, and one of the reasons for my question is, is properties, like the poor farm, four chambers property. Another reason for my question is I've gotten some emails recently from.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: constituents about concerns about rumors of what structures are going to be taken down or not, and, and I don't know, the status of all that.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: but., karen hollweg, osbt:, a better understanding of how that's done and what goes on would be really helpful,. I think.

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Cob, dan burke: sure,, when we get together for our next agenda internal agenda, meeting, we could talk about who would be the lead and putting something together.

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Cob, dan burke: for that and be happy to report out on that.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:- and I don't want it to be a. karen hollweg, osbt: big. cob, dan burke: year,, I mean the answer is yes,. We we buy. We I've identified in all your structures in terms of more residential structures. At this point, not loafing sheds and.

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Cob, dan burke:, but so we've had a full assessment of all of our structures on opens.

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Cob, dan burke: and,, including loafing sheds,, and I mean like or 300, separate structures and the conditions of those and and their maintenance needs. So as a way of prioritizing where we need to put it.

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Cob, dan burke:, but we also have gone through we're nearing completion of an assessment of all of our residential structures. And what purpose are they currently serving? Do they have a story nature to historic nature, to them.

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Cob, dan burke: do they have potential open space use if they're, currently vacant or not being used for open space purposes, what's the likely that it will become an agricultural tenant, perhaps residence, and what type of time frame so we've.

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Cob, dan burke: that has been about a year and a half or two year process that the real estate folks have worked on and.

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Cob, dan burke: and,, and so we have a we were starting to have a pretty good sense of of all the residential structures,. How many do we think eventually could be part of reading or cultural program, for example, great.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: for for like for, like farmworkers housing and.

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Cob, dan burke: yes, yes,, which is identified countywide, is a huge need if we want to have bible later.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: we've talked about that several times. Now.

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Cob, dan burke:, so I would say, for the most part, in general,, and this is not doing the report. Justice is that when when we could identify a reasonable need to accommodate or negar cultural residency in there,, you know that's something we probably don't want to get rid of that. Structure.

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Cob, dan burke: all the structures that we own we, we did not identify very many that would rise to the level of of of disposing of.

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Cob, dan burke:, a lot of the ones we found, could be very viable from an agricultural perspective,, not from our historic in nature.

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Cob, dan burke: some may call for based on there's no, you that maybe the best uses demolishing them and creating more open space.

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Cob, dan burke:, but we we actually did not find very many- that rose, the level of potential disposal and, of course, if they did rise to that level. That would go through the whole process of board and counsel.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: great and how soon, do you expect that to be out.

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Cob, dan burke: well,, our main author on that is out on paternity leave.

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Cob, dan burke: so um but having said that, there's no there's no imminent decisions on dismantling or disposing of of them. Basically, where we're at now is.

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Cob, dan burke: for andy's agricultural program is sort of prioritizing, which ones we feel our next candidates to have an agricultural attended. In.

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Cob, dan burke: that sort of right now how we're using the draft report to help determine what sites, we might want to do. Some upgrades to to get them ready to support our agricultural program.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: great is the draft record available or none.

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Cob, dan burke:- I don't, I think it's just right now, it's more of a spreadsheet reformed, so I'm when I can get back to more on the timing,, but certainly the paternity leave, will affect that. But um.

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Cob, dan burke: well,, like I said, we'll get together internally and kind of point out on the agenda when we might be able to put something like that and.

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Cob, dan burke: get back to you.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: okay, great two other quick comments on the poor farm memo. Um.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, I kind of wince when I see the word engagement, I'm standing alone and because,. In my mind. What we really want is purchase a patient.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and,, and so I kept wanting to say, engage if you're going to use the word engagement. How about an participation,? Because I really want people to participate.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and then the other thing it talks about in.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: doing an inventory and because of some of the comments that were made about the nature of the property, I sure hope somebody is doing an inventory that will capture spring migration before it's too late.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: which.

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Curt brown, osbt:, I see mark.

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Cob mark davison: still here, yes,. You know we say 21, but we thought that we want to go over the four seasons,. Just like you're, saying so,. It will spend up to 22.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: okay,, I would think some people from audubon society or be cna would be happy to take on.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: the volunteer charge of going out there and seeing what's there, this spring.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: thank you.

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Curt brown, osbt:, are you done karen? I see dates. Hand.

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karen hollweg, osbt: yep go for.

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Curt brown, osbt:, a day.

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dave, kuntz, osbt: thanks yeah. I had a couple of questions and suggestions.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: as far as future agendas.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:: are we planning to have a status update of the work program in the at the next meeting, or to kind of the,? Let us know where you know the department.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: is headed,. You know this year.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: as far as status is concerned, it,. It strikes me that would be helpful, just to kind of give a quick update on okay. Here's where things stand and kind of where we're headed.

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Dave kuntz,, osbt: and dave kuntz, osbt: um yeah go ahead.

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Cob, dan burke: well,, so I mean, are somewhat related. Plans is starting next month, and then,, especially into may we're going to be providing you with details of what's planned for 2022.

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Cob, dan burke:, especially as it relates to this tip projects.

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Cob, dan burke: so,. Are you asking those projects that were sort of approved for last year to build on 2021, which one which probably.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: means,, just a quick, quick update of you know how things are looking our position or you know,. Are we ready to go and can we do kind of what we've we've said,? We want to do.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, and I think you know that would be kind of a nice foundation for the.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: conversation as well.

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In. dave kuntz,, osbt: kind of not wanting to muddy the waters that that karen maintain so clearly.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, but given the conversation and cancelled travel consultations and stuff.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:, it strikes me,. It would be helpful and kind of preparation for the cultural resource management plan for perhaps.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt: folks to you, know again let the board know kind of where things are at cultural resource, wise and kind of what the you know. Kind of the main targets are for the resource management plan.

F

Dave kuntz,, osbt: and so kind of give a you know, kind of an entree, so the board has some sense of kind of what's going on,, you know, karen stuff is pretty specific so and I don't want to.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: unduly complicate things, but it just strikes me that I think it'd be very helpful for the board to kind of get a sense of what the cultural resource management plan.

F

Dave kuntz, osbt:. You know the parameters for that that sort of thing.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah again um it's it's something that hasn't been started, so I.

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Cob, dan burke:, but what I wrote down as it as it of interest is a cultural resources program status, update which.

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Dave kuntz, osbt:, I think will. cob, dan burke: be vegan, and the reason that we will.

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cob, dan burke: get together as we get together as a staff is because right now, christian.

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Cob, dan burke: you know,, would be the lead on that and his plate is is really for right. Now,, because he's also the lead on getting the consultation right or it's underway,, and you know preparing any time to go in front of the board.

G

Cob, dan burke:, it makes seamless from our standpoint, when we come and give you a presentation,. But that's hours and hours of work and so.

G

Cob, dan burke:, I know, one of the reasons we get together and we pray is like. Okay, christians tap we're not going to put him in april, for instance,, so I don't want to make any promises of when we could come back on this stuff, but I certainly have them all captured in, and we can.

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Cob, dan burke:, we can see when we can put those into the q rate.

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Dave kuntz,, osbt: and then the other thing was. I don't want us to lose sight of the voice inside program conversation that we have had,. There were going to be some follow up items and things,. I think that would be helpful.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah we're on we're on that one. I talked to steve about that.

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Cob, dan burke: today, so we'll be getting back to you on that shortly. Okay.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah and I'm especially interested in in what's going to be happening.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: to dogs off leash in terms of protecting the ground, nesting and shrub nesting birds. This spring.

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Karen hollweg, osbt:, because that, in the data that screamed out to all of us as a real management, need.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: and I'm wondering if, if you've been able to identify something that could happen, to.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: to enhance.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: compliance with on leash usage in an identified nesting, areas.

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, so we did get that quite we do get all your questions on on the dogs. I think we've got back to you on on one of them, but.

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Cob, dan burke: in looking at this,, the question started to turn into more of like.

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Cob, dan burke:, how do we,? How do we respond,, but how do we find the time to respond back in a meaningful way, and it seemed to us that perhaps a a written memo, rather than one off emails, might be the better approach.

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Cob, dan burke: and, and so, stephen, I and john and lisa gonzalo we're going to have to put our heads together about how best to get back to you on on those things. I think steve started to get back to individually karen but.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah, but what I'm not interested in,, you know, a huge report,, but a specific response on the ground. Nesting and shrub nesting birds in the.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: in the areas where it's voice, insight for part of the year,- and we know the compliance is only in the 50% range during nesting season. Is there anything that we can be doing this spring.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: to to protect that resource.

D

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Cob, dan burke: yeah, we will get back to you with some information on on what we're thinking in that regards.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: thank you., so, dan. dave, kuntz, osbt:, a couple of the real quick things in the poor farm. Four chambers.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: memo. It said that we don't think the four chambers site is on the poor farm property,, but it didn't say whether in fact we think it's on open space,. So do we think it's an open, space.

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Cob, dan burke: um.

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cob, dan burke:. You know it's not it's not definitive from what we're from the pieces of information we're able to put together right now. We we think it may be off of open space,, but it's.

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Cob, dan burke:, it's it's a type of conclusion that you know we. We definitely don't want to rest our laurels on its,, but we think it might be a little bit south of the actual property line, but we're just not we're not sure at this point.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: on dead. cob,, dan burke: so.

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Cob mark davison:, I was just gonna add. cob mark davison:. We will be doing as part of what we discussed earlier, the will be like a cultural landscape, infancy in and the historic properties inventory.

J

Cob mark davison:, so that's we just did some initial findings from christian,, but we won't be until the complete that inventory and work with it for suffering tribal nations. That's when we'll be publishing.

J

Cob mark davison:, like the actual findings,, as it were, so that'll, probably take another six to nine months for that.

G

Cob, dan burke: and the truth of it is, we may never know definitive definitively.

G

Cob, dan burke:, where actual location is so yeah.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: until you do an archaeological dig.

G

Cob, dan burke: well, though,, though mining pits might have taken care of.

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Karen hollweg, osbt: yeah oh.

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Dave kuntz, osbt: thanks.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I have one other little thing. We eldorado spring state park has dropped off of the calendar.

C

Karen hollweg, osbt: has it totally vanished. Or.

J

Cob, dan burke: mark.

J

cob mark davison: game yeah katie just give us a heads up last week that we still haven't had any word on when it's going to come back on the table, and so we're still in a holding pattern on that waiting until the state picks it up again. So well that you know as soon as we hear anything karen.

F

Karen hollweg, osbt: thank you. dave, kuntz, osbt:. When it comes back. We're gonna have to get kurt back because he.

A

Curt brown, osbt: I'll be calling tom.

J

Cob mark davison: just come. You okay.

A

Curt brown, osbt: anything else or other issues from the board.

A

Curt brown, osbt: all right.

A

curt brown, osbt:, with that. curt brown, osbt:. We are adjourned,. Thank you. All.

A

Hal hallstein osbt: thank you. dave, kuntz, osbt: thank you, thank you., curt brown, osbt:. My pleasure take care.

J

Cob mark davison:, good luck.

A

Curt brown, osbt:, thank you I'll, send baby pictures.

A

C

Karen hollweg, osbt:, I need to see amelia.

A

Okay. curt brown,, osbt:, bye, bye.