City of Boulder, CO Planning Board, 18 Feb 2021

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From YouTube: 2-18-21 City of Boulder Planning Board Meeting

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2-18-21 City of Boulder Planning Board Meeting

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Pb harmon zuckerman: great. Why don't we the recording, started, I'm going to call the planning board meeting for the city of boulder for thursday february 18 2021 is a supporter.

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Pb, david ensign:, she she's she's she's she's she's.,.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: good night, everybody hearing, that.

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Pb, peter vitale: is it.

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pb harmon, zuckerman:, okay,, good stuff. Ok, so again, I'm calling the planning board meeting for tonight to order, and the first thing I'm going to do is turn it over to our moderator, gene data and gene,. If you would go over the rules for our virtual meeting, tonight.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: appreciate that.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her):, okay, welcome, everyone,. We appreciate you tuning in to this city, boulders planning board, meeting tonight.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):. We are aiming to keep these meetings respectful and orderly, and as such we have some very specific protocol and the activities that disrupt delay or interfere with the meeting are prohibited.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): and,, just as it would be if we were meeting in person, the time for speaking or asking questions is limited, and that is to the.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): public hearing portions either I or the board chair or recognize applicants are members of the public to speak, and we will unmute you.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her): at the appropriate times. We need anyone who wasn't intending to address the board to please use a full name. If your full name is not currently displayed, please change it, or you can send it to me in the chat and I'm happy to change it for you.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her): know video will be permitted,, except for board staff and applicants. All others will participate,, but by voice only by can ask for the applicants to keep your camera off until the appropriate time, when.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):, you have presentations that would be awesome, let's see so harmon or I or cindy will enforce these rules by muting. Anyone who violates the rules,, so please don't do that.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):, and this is really important,. The chat function should only be used if for technical issues to communicate with me, or.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):, with cindy, if she's the host, it's really hard for the folks in the meeting to stay focused on the content and the chat should really not be used for any kind of commentary or questions..

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her): beyond just., cob,jean, gatza,, moderator, (she/her):, simple, please change my name to this or I'm trying to raise my hand and can't.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): and then only staff and board members will be allowed to share screens unless otherwise enabled.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):, when we get to the public hearing, so we'll have the open public hearing. We will use the raise hand function for folks that would like to speak, either under open comment or for the.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): public hearing that is a little later in the meeting.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):. You should find this either on the bottom of your screen, with some folks. You can find it under reactions and that's where the raise hand function is anyone on the phone can use star seed, remember star nine, to raise hand.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): and, let's see, will tee up several speakers at a time. Folks will have three minutes to address the board. I'll have a little timer and I don't like to cut people off,, but I will unmute. I will meet you, I'm just out of fairness to everyone. If, if you go beyond three minutes, um let's see.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):, we talked about the full name, and I think that's it..

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Pb harmon zuckerman: all right, jane. Thank you very much for that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah. I just really want to reiterate that the piece about the chat function,, because you know we're having a hearing tonight, and the only record of the hearing- is going to be what is spoken for everyone to hear during the hearing. So nothing substantive whatsoever belongs in the chat.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the first order of business on the agenda, is to approve the minutes. Cindy has provided the january 21 2021 minutes for review.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: everybody's had an opportunity to review them,. I thought they were great cindy. I made no changes this month. Has everybody had an opportunity to review and make the changes that they needed to make.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, are there any questions, or is there a motion to approve the minutes.

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Pb, john gerstle:, so move.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,. So do I have a second for john's motion.

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Pb, lisa smith: a second.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, so we have emotion on the table from bristol and it's been seconded by smith and the motion is to approve the january 21 2021 minutes and do a quick roll call vote dividends. Fine.

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I'm. pb sarah silver: okay,, sarah hi john.

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Pb, john gerstle:, all right. pb, harmon, zuckerman:, whoo pizza.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: lisa.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, hi peter.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, hi ok,, so the past seven. Nothing next order is the public participation portion of our hearing,, and so this is for items that this is for.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: opportunity for members of the public who are here who want to address the planning board about items of general importance,, but not items that are being heard tonight in our public hearings and so last time we we had a.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: have some general public comment around the martha house use review,, which has been continued and in which we're hearing the final continuation. I would think the final continuation of it tonight.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: public comments closed on that this general public comment period is not open for comment on the market house or for the final plat.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: call. I guess it is for the call up items sorry,. So if you have anything to say about the call up item that you can speak about,, but the public hearing item that we have on the agenda, tonight,, which is site news, review application to redevelop, 2727 29th street.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, that is, is not for public participation,. If you want to speak to that item,, you can speak to it after that public hearing. So I'm going to turn it over to jane again to moderate public participation and gene feel free to give anybody who wants to speak three minutes.

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Pb sarah silver: can I just ask a quick question if somebody from mark, who was in and marco has never wanted to speak, an open comment, since it's a content that hearing itself as a continuation, are they allowed to are not allowed to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I thought I made it pretty clear: no they're not allowed to.

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Pb sarah silver: okay, all right, thank you.

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Thank you, okay.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): okay,, thanks harmon, I see one by one member with with hand up at lynn, siegel lynn, you can unmute and go ahead.

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Lynn, segal: first of all, not going to talk about more for house, I'm going to talk about.

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Lynn segal: spaces like martha house,, which is what the city needs. Now I don't know if you've noticed the homeless problem lately, and the fentanyl deaths in boulder.

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Lynn, segal: and lynn segal: a play: a communal setting, that's like a pre existing.

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Lynn, segal: a building like my house: okay, not my house,. Like my house,, you know it's impossible to get anyone to work on your place in boulder, it's $1 per square foot for deconstruction, so that that means everyone's going to scrape..

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Lynn, segal: and lynn segal:, it's a scraping burn policy and it just drives up the land value,, and you know the house next door didn't count,, because it was a demolition after sale, because they scraped it and it's the the climber, that lives there. You know built a great house,, but that doesn't help.

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Lynn, segal: the land value in boulder.

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lynn, segal:, and he was trying to keep part of that house,. But you know the foundation wasn't good enough. What have you, but if you've got you've, got to set up something in the planning board or in the land use codes that that encourage people to keep the places that they have.

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Lynn, segal: and the other thing I wanted to talk about was last night,, see you south.

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Lynn segal:: this is really.

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Lynn, segal:, I sent a letter. I spent all day yesterday going through that tape from last night. It's stunning what happened and basically there was.

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Lynn, segal: a below the radar coup and just like trump,, just like the interaction that that went to setting up council members.

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Lynn, segal: from the the subcommittee of the see yourself process, subcommittee.

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Lynn, segal: to remove themselves from there to get on to a council objective that is going towards annexation and cds out now,. If you want,, if you want to talk about planning in boulder.,.

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Lynn, segal:, you need to talk about a 300 acre, university,, the size of the one we have now. 35,000 people, that's a huge stress to boulder. That's a huge demand.

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Lynn, segal: on the house, how, jobs,, housing imbalance, not balance,. The first thing you should be thinking of with every project you're looking at is the jobs, housing imbalance and.

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Lynn, segal:, by heightening by giving subsidies by heightening the land value,, you are countering every single board and I follow eight of them in the city of boulder. It's just not going..

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Lynn segal:, so please keep your eyes open to what's really happening here, because I'm thinking you know, hundreds of years from now, what gold is going to be, and I think we need that long. View.

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Lynn, segal:, because you can't just keep on subsidizing and developer obsolescent housing,. You know it's not viable..

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her): thank you., cob,jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): okay,. We also have dan daniel harberger daniel. You can go.

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Daniel haarburger: there can you hear me.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah yes. great thanks., daniel haarburger:. I just wanted to speak briefly kind of in generality about the importance of accountability, which I feel like is oftentimes overlooked when coming up with deals with new developments.

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Daniel haarburger:, I find that you know oftentimes, there's this tension between community in between developers and what I think sometimes frustrates community members is that there is no strong or clear.

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Daniel haarburger: kind of legal accountability that holds developers today a word when the new projects are put forth. It seems like there's oftentimes.

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Daniel haarburger:, a desire for people to say oh we'll, do this and we'll do that. You know,, and this could be in large new projects- large new developments,, you know in north, bold or east, bold or whatnot.

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Daniel haarburger: or it could also be on kind of redeveloping or expansions upon existing properties,, but it feels like, as the community or as a member of the community,, the lack of accountability.

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Daniel haarburger: and kind of enforcement capability of the claims of developers is a real fear and a real risk.

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Daniel haarburger: so, for instance, the idea that you know if one were to build a bunch of new units and now all of a sudden,, an area where.

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Daniel haarburger: previously, there was you know,, a single property that would be held to say three violations now would take many violations before you know legal recourse.

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Daniel haarburger:, I know that's a big fear for myself and and it's a big fear for the community.

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Daniel haarburger: for different projects,, so I would just say it's really important, at least to me that accountability, be considered in new development projects and expansions upon existing development. Projects,, and I would love.

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Daniel haarburger:, if maybe in the future, there can be there could be something written to the code or or some further clarity presented. That would allow a more.

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Daniel haarburger: kind of kind of an easing of the tensions that people would know that that accountability was being really clearly baked. Into.

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Daniel haarburger: into new development projects into expansions of existing developments so again, like accountability, is just the one thing that I think would be so helpful.

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Daniel haarburger: for helping the community feel at ease about different projects, and I feel like like adding teeth to different agreements or different proposals..

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Daniel haarburger:, that seems to be missing, by and large,. So that's my one point. My one topic. I really appreciate you guys having the patience and willingness to listen to me here and I won't talk any further. So thanks very much.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her): great, thank you daniel I'm. Seeing one other hand up us stepanek.

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If this person could.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):, you can go ahead,, but please give us your full name.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. If you want to speak, you gotta unmute.,.

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Stepanek: unmute.

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Stepanek: goes to panic.

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Stepanek: 720 11 street own, the property at 815, 844 12 streets. So we're well aware of the neighborhood concerns and simply appreciate the chance to share and to support those concerns with, with with respect to market house issues.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, hey joe we're not talking about martha house in general public comment. I don't know if you missed the beginning of the meeting.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I did or ongoing continued sorry,. Is it it's? A continuation and public comments closed for this matter, so happy taking more comments.

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Stepanek:, thank you understand,. I understand, thank you, thank you.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her):, ok.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): ok,, I think that's all the hands,. We have her open comment back to you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay, well, thank you,. That was the public for bringing those items to our.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: attention and.

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pb, harmon, zuckerman: now,, the first item and discussions of dispositions planning board call. Ups and continuations is a call up item which I'm going to have to recuse. I'm going to disclose that the applicant.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, for this particular item is a client and so I'm going to recuse myself and I'm going to turn it over to the vice chair, david and sign, and I'm going to leave the meeting space until you're done with your discussion of this item.

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Pb, david ensign: great, and I can text you harmon when we're done since I have your text. So, yes, we're looking at call up item final plan for subdivision it 2125 upland, avenue.

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Pb, david ensign: to replant lot one and outline a of connect subdivision completed in 2019 into one single family, residential lot.

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Pb,, david ensign: and there's a case number. This approval is subject to call up by today,. So does anybody have any interest in any questions or any interest in discussing calling this up.

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Pb, david ensign:, all right, well,. I will text harming that you can re enable his.

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Pb, david ensign:, his video and we'll be good.

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Pb, david ensign: okay.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay, thank you, david for letting me back in and now we're getting to the continuation.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: item for martha house,. So this item is for be on our agenda, and it is a continuation of planning boards consideration of a non conforming use. Review.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: for this stark restoration and conversion of former martha house group living quarters at 891, 12th street. It's a 16 three bedroom dwelling units with a maximum capacity or occupancy of 48 persons,. The project site is zoned residential, low one or a low one case number l, you are.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: dash triple zero 22,, and so what we're going to do.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: here is.

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pb, harmon zuckerman:. You know I'm going to just give a little history. Here.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:- we heard this matter last month and in because of certain concerns. The planning board members had.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. We can sense that the project as presented to us was not a project that we will be voting to approve, and then we voted.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: six to one to continue the matter, because there was also a consensus at least the six to one. If you can call that a consensus.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: john girl still voted against the continuation,, but the other six members of planning board agreed that,. If staff and the applicant were work, together.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: to create a set of conditions, and maybe not stephen the applicant,, but at least staff would create a set of conditions that would.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: handle some of the concerns, or actually all of the concerns that we put on the table six and all that,. If properly met,, we might be able to recommend, we might be able to approve the project.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: so,, so that was the the notion. Sorry, I lost my train of thought. The notion was that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. We would give the applicant more time. We would give staff time to create a set of conditions that, if applied.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: would render the project potentially approvable,, and so the applicant agreed to take a continuance and we continue the matter until tonight, so,. As you can see, in your packet. We don't have the full.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the full application and all the materials and steps recommendation. That's in last month's packet. What we do have is an abbreviated.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: abbreviated staff report,, which mostly focuses on the conditions that were drafted in order to meet the request that planning board made to draft those six conditions,. And there are quite like the three pages of conditions,. I think.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: so,, knowing that not everybody.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: has an opportunity to read the whole packet, want to give city staff and opportunity to describe these conditions and to talk a little bit. About.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: what those conditions are and how they believe that the conditions, as drafted, or responsive to planning boards request and then.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. We would normally just deliberate on those conditions, but I'm going to ask that we give the applicant a short amount of time.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: to speak to the conditions,, because if, if our job is to potentially.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: check the conditions around maybe adjust some of the language in those conditions. I don't want to waste our time doing that,. If, if the applicant has.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: significant difficulties with any or all of the conditions that have been proposed, so we'll give the applicant in a short period of time,, and I want to warn the applicant,. This is not the time to resell the project to to us,. We see.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. What the project proposal is. This is simply a time to discuss your reaction to the conditions and then, after the applicant has had their opportunity to speak to that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, then we will deliberate and bring the matter, hopefully to a close,. So I'm going to turn it over to charles. Are you there I.

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Cob,, charles ferro:, my camera's, not working so soon as I introduced the item, I'll jump out of a meeting and then log back in.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay, great., pb, harmon zuckerman:, I'm just going to turn it over to charles, whose voice you. pb harmon zuckerman:, just heard,, who is our development, review manager and planning and I'll? Let charles take it from here.

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Cob,, charles ferro: right thanks very much good evening, chair members of the board, I'm going to turn it over to sloan walbert tonight,. Just to take you through.

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Cob,, charles ferro:, the conditions that we crafted at the boards direction and a little bit about the rationale behind each one of them will be happy to answer any questions.

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Cob, charles ferro:, like I said,, my camera, isn't working so I'm going to turn it over to sloan happen back out of the meeting, and then hop back and so slowly take it. Away.

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Cob sloane walbert:, hey thanks, charles.

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cob, sloane, walbert: alright,. So is everyone able to see the presentation.

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Cob sloane walbert: okay,, great., cob, sloane, walbert:, okay,, well,, good evening,, and thanks for that introduction.

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Cob sloane walbert:, as was described this item, is the continuation of the discussion regarding an application for a non conforming use review to convert the existing boarding house at 891 12th street to 16 self contained dwelling units.

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Cob sloane walbert:, the intent of this presentation is to go through those additional possible conditions that were drafted by staff intended to address comments made at the hearing on january 21.

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Cob sloane walbert: come on.

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Cob sloane walbert:, there we go okay, and so just to refresh your memories,. The standards for changes to non conforming uses state. The applications for expansion of non conforming uses must be reviewed for consistency with specific criteria.

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Cob sloane walbert: set forth in section nine to 15 of the land use code. Determination on this application is a criteria based decision.

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Cob sloane walbert: on january 21, the planning board held a quasi judicial hearing to consider this request and not that hearing the board, listen to public comment and discussed whether the proposal meets such criteria.

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Cob sloane, walbert: and so,, specifically at the hearing, members, discussed the criteria concerning compatibility, character of the area and reasonable measures.

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Cob sloane walbert:, taken by the applicant to reduce or alleviate any adverse impacts. Members voice concerns about changes to the existing neighborhood character and adverse impacts like noise and parking.

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Cob sloane walbert: and after discussion, the board decided to continue consideration to allow staff to draft conditions, as directed in that hearing.

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Cob sloane walbert:, so staff has prepared conditions of approval to address these comments, which reformatted and a staff memo, and I'm just going to talk through the rationale for each condition,. Based on what we understood from the conversation.

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Cob sloane walbert: and just as a note, the conditions were written to address specific impacts anticipated based on expected tenants,. So the development.

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Cob sloane walbert: ie undergraduate students,. They were written to support for future enforcement and straightforward interpretation by enforcement stuff. They were also written to try and remove ambiguities.

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Cob sloane walbert: and these conditions drafted could be adopted and full not at all, individually or modified to meet the board's needs.

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Cob sloane walbert:, so the first condition is intended to address concerns regarding parking management and impacts to on street parking in the facility.

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Cob sloane walbert:, based on the boards recommendations, staff, has drafted a condition that would limit the number of vehicles parked in the right away to eat the rationale being that eight.

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Cob sloane walbert: non accessible spaces are provided on the site,, so that would be a total of 16 spaces, or one per unit,, which was recommended in the hearing. The applicant would also be required to provide each tenant with a car share. Membership.

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Cob sloane walbert: and the following paragraphs in the condition, are intended to encourage compliance with these limitations.

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Cob sloane walbert:. Some examples are that each tenant would sign a parking agreement in which they indicate that they would either not park on the property or in the defined area..

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Cob sloane walbert: or would park in the space assigned or identified.

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Cob sloane walbert: in their in their agreement and that parking agreement would be incorporated into the tenants lease each tenant would be required to show a parking pass and they'd also be required to meet with management,. Before moving to understand the restrictions.

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Cob sloane walbert:, so the next condition concerns proposal, quiet hours and encouraging quiet tenants that may have similar preferences to the neighborhood.

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Cob sloane walbert: and right now,. The proposed condition only has placeholders for the hours, so that the board can discuss that condition intends to identify non compliant activities during that identified hours,, which would help facilitate compliance.

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Cob sloane, walbert: and other components of that condition or intended.

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Cob sloane walbert: again, to ensure compliance,, including a requirement that a violation of quiet hours would violate the lease agreement.

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Cob sloane walbert:, so that condition could be written to either be more restrictive than the noise restrictions currently in section 593 of the code or could supplement such restrictions and just as a side note, the quiet hours currently listed.

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Cob sloane walbert: in the code are 11pm to 7am, which is consistent with east reviews for restaurants, near residential uses as an example.

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Cob sloane walbert:. The next item is concerning the maximum allowable occupancy on the site and ensuring innocuous occupancy limit of three and related people living in each unit, and it's likely that the site would be limited to these restrictions regardless, if this was approved, however, having a condition.

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Cob sloane walbert: would help elucidate that requirement.

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Cob sloane walbert:, the next condition addresses managing student behavior and providing quick and efficient means of addressing issues,. The drafted condition requires property management to reside on sites which would be similar to something like a resident advisor sorority house director.

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Cob sloane walbert: kind of roles like that,, and the attempt would be that someone would be on site at most times to ensure compliance and to address any complaints. Made.

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Cob sloane walbert:. The next item is related. The next condition states that the good neighbor agreement would be revised to describe those responsibilities of an onsite manager and to provide their direct contact. Information.

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Cob sloane walbert: and the next item is related to possibly targeting more diverse population. In the development.

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Cob sloane walbert:, so people like faculty young families or graduate students were identified as being a little bit more compatible with the neighborhood.

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Cob sloane walbert: so to address these concerns staff recommended that the good neighbor agreement be revised to remove the statement that the property would be fully vacated each august for maintenance,. The rationale is that this closure would likely deter populations, other than undergraduate students.

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Cob sloane walbert: and, on the same note, the board discussed whether the approval could be conditioned to make our to require marketing strategies to attract a diverse population.

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Cob sloane walbert: and to attract tenants interested in living in a more quiet sort of development..

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Cob sloane walbert:, so the condition drafted would require a marketing plan be submitted for review by the city and would meet the intent of that.

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Cob sloane walbert: limitation., cob, sloane walbert:, so that covers all of the drafted conditions,. An update in motion was provided and the staff memo in the event that the board decides to approve with conditions and we're happy to address any questions. You may have.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: thanks.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. Do we need to ask questions now, or can we wait and hear what the if the applicant has any comments before we ask questions of both the applicant and staff.

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Pb, john gerstle:, I'm happy you find with me.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, then why don't we turn it over to the applicant for their response to these conditions and and then we'll have an open question from planning board to either step for the applicant,, and then we can deliberate.

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Esa architects, joe coughlin applicant: good evening,, mr chairman.

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Jim johnson: planning board members jim johnson, on behalf of the applicant 950 17th street, suite 1600. Thanks for the opportunity to respond tonight,, I intend to fully fully respect your request and will not take much time at all. Actually.

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Jim johnson:, we are in general agreement with all the conditions, clients in general agreement with all the conditions we just have a couple of things: we'd like you to consider, as you as you consider the conditions that staff drafted first relates to parking.

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Jim johnson:, the applicant was, was hoping,. I was intending to have 16 actually.

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Jim johnson: spaces on the street available there I understand from the parking consultant, that there is more than sufficient parking on the street. There.

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Jim johnson: and the party consultant is available on the call this evening to address any concerns about on street parking and.

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Jim johnson:, so that would be one request that we would increase the number of spaces in a right of way from eight to 16. That would provide 24 spaces, total eight on on site, eight and 16 off.

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Jim johnson:, the second relates to the second comment, relates to ours, the quiet hours,, and we would be, we would propose for those blanks to mimic the hours that are in,. I believe it was section.

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Jim johnson: 593 that sloan indicated,, so we would propose to mimic those same quiet hours that are that are in the city, ordinance.

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Jim johnson: and then,. Our third and final comment concerns the onsite manager and are only concerned with respect to the onsite manager, is that we would request that the onsite manager actually not reside at the development..

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Jim johnson:, in my clients, experience using professional property managers were unlikely to get a property manager. That's a professional property manager willing to live on the site.

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Jim johnson: and if you have someone like like a resident assistant, an ra or something like that living on the site.

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Jim johnson:, we think that would lead to enforcement issues. You have someone who is essentially trying to regulate their peers,. The professional management people that my client uses for the other developments that are in the city.

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Jim johnson:, they reside or they're very close to the development, so within five minutes of the property and can respond at all hours.

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Jim johnson:, their cell phone is available, and there are ways to report quick report issues that they happen in the middle of the night to the onsite and the property manager.

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Jim johnson: so, and the property manager does come by the house, come by the the residents, every day,, so that would be really our only proposed. A third proposed change was just that the onsite.

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Daniel haarburger: manager- here, oh my god, she sleeps.

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Daniel haarburger:, I'm sorry guys,. I thought I was off.

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Jim johnson:, okay, I'm sorry if causing anybody paying for my comments.

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Jim johnson:, please consider our request that those are the only three issues that we saw with with with the conditions that that the staff bows- and we thank you for your time. This evening.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: thank you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay, now,. Are there any questions for the planning board to step for the applicant.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: john and sarah, then repeat: it.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah. Thank you. So I think those are interesting proposals. I'm I'm unclear about how effective they would be because.

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Pb, john gerstle:, it seems to me that most of them give discretion, most of the proposed measures. Give discretion to the landlord on whether to enforce.

E

Pb, john gerstle:, because because there's discussion about the requirements of the individual leases, which are a matter of a relationship between the landlord and the tenant.

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Pb, john gerstle:, so it's unclear to me that that they would that this proposal is satisfactory in the sense of providing assurance to the neighbors that that these issues would be properly dealt with so,. And this is a question to sloan..

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Pb,, john gerstle:, how would the city be enforcing these if the landlord decided to to be relaxed about it.

N

Cob sloane walbert:, so helen may want to jump in as well,, but I think the intent of incorporating some of these restrictions and elise is that.

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Cob sloane walbert: the. cob sloane walbert: property manager is able to enforce as well as city stuff, so it would both be a.

N

Cob sloane walbert: they would be in non compliance with their lease as well as if there was any enforcement action taken by the city. So it's not that we're passing that.

N

Cob sloane walbert: that requirement or that role to the property manager. It's that we're trying to cover both sides that you could make a complaint to the city, and we would use these conditions to take action if necessary that the the property manager itself should also be enforcing if necessary.

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Pb, john gerstle: so. pb,, john gerstle:. Is it all sorry just to just to follow on.

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Pb, john gerstle:, I'm just looking at these conditions, and I don't see where the city is in the enforcement game of any of these. It's all the the property.

M

Charles ferro: right, so it's a great question, john. It's it's really a belt and suspenders approach in that these conditions of approval are going to be memorialized in the disposition of approval, that's issued by the city.

M

Charles ferro:, so that's the document, that's going to live on and run with the property forever and ever and ever so we will you know, will continue to have enforcement authority like we would over their development agreement of any other site or use review.

M

Charles ferro:, the suspenders approach, the belt and suspenders approach of including this and individual leases, I think, helps make the expectations clear to tenants, and, I think is a good way to keep it front of mine to folks who are signing the lease that.

M

Charles ferro:, these are conditions that apply and and are enforceable that at the end of the day, they'll appear in the cities, disposition of approval on will remain. The city will remain with enforcement authority like we would, with any other condition of approval and our land use case.

P

Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: and,, if I may elaborate on that, I I believe both the quiet, our section and the parking section requires the applicants to enforce the required agreements.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, and, and some of the requirements of keeping record and providing those records to the city are meant to help with checking up that. That's actually occurring. So that's how we were trying to address them for the city, to be able to take some action. On.

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Pb, john gerstle: you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, and I know this is this- is question and answer for us but,, but I also want to make it clear,, because I don't think that that it is entirely clear, john, when you said that you didn't see how the conditions are enforceable by the city.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I want to point out, and then the the staff talked about well,. These are additional.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: obligations of the applicant to enforce the conditions,. I want to make it clear to people who aren't reading the conditions,, but who are watching.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: that the conditions say things at the top, like no more than eight motor vehicles owner used by tenants of the us shelby parked in the public right of way..

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, that is not putting the responsibility to enforce on the applicant,. That is a condition that is enforceable under this use, review by the city and so a violation of any of those conditions,, each of which has a positive statement like that, for all six of them at the top.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any of those violations would be enforceable through complaint to the city.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so not you know. pb, harmon zuckerman:, that wasn't a question that was a clarification.

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Pb, john gerstle: okay, well,. We can talk about that in our discussion later on okay.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I do have a question. That's related to that,, though I heard a member of the public talk in public comment last month, about how you know, this, three strikes and you're out when you've got.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: when you've got 16 apartments.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: means that they get 48 strikes before before they're out, and I wanted staff to address that.

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Cob sloane walbert: sorry, herman. What specifically, what condition states three strikes and you're out.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I'm just I just want to you- know, get it on the record. How you know, are we talking about.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you know the violations accrue to each dwelling unit or do violations accrue to the whole project. So that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, if there's any kind of progressive discipline.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, when the violation is discovered,, you know that's the way, the city generally works,, you know we. We we heard that you're violating we're going to come and we're going to visit.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: we're going to see if the violation has occurred at the violation has occurred and we're going to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you know there's going to be a consequence and then, if the second violation than the consequences becomes steeper and then you know, finally,. We can talk about potentially revoking the us review.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, which would invalidate the whole us so is, is you know the concern from the member of the public, was that this building with 16 units inside of it would have.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: 16 separate tracks of those progresses that progressive discipline that I just described,, which I don't think is the way the city's enforcement function work,. So I wanted to hear how the city's for enforcement function would work from staff on the record.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, yeah, that's correct, sermon with regard to this approval, we're looking at the entire us and that's all dwelling units together,, as well as the exterior property party.

G

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Pb harmon zuckerman: ok,, so now sarah and then lou pizza.

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Pb sarah silver: thanks harmon,. So this is a question for staff.

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Pb, sarah silver:: it's a comment that turns into a question. So I'm hearing this this some some language around an onsite manager and some language around a resident advisor.

K

Pb, sarah silver: and those to take you in very different directions in terms of your target audience or or the broad broadness or narrowness of the likely.

K

Pb sarah silver: community that would end up moving in here,, and I would like to understand.

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Pb sarah silver:: what is the language that the staff is most comfortable with, and then that leads me to the follow up question which I will go ahead and ask which has to do with.

K

Pb sarah silver:, the the lead. The way my recollection from our january meeting is that each tenant would sign a lease with the landlord the property owner,, which then raises the question of. If, in fact, there are couples or families that want to live there, a.

K

Pb sarah silver:: do they sign one lease or do they each have to sign a lease and if they sign one, lease is the 48? Is that counted as one person or is that counted as x number of people towards the 48 maximum and I'm hope I'm saying that clearly.

P

Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: um I. hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I think, for a family,. This is, could be structured. The in a way that all the adults are signatories on the lease parties to the least, but you don't execute separate documents.

P

Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, and I would count individuals and not these documents, for.

P

Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: that the limits has been addressed as unrelated occupants with the heart 48.

P

Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, unrelated no code, generally limits each unit to no more than three in this in this particular zoning district,. So that there's that and then we added.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: a very express condition that says it can never be more than three unrelated per unit,, even if the code ever changes,, but it does give flexibility for related.

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Pb sarah silver: okay,, so it doesn't, it doesn't change the we don't need to think about how many leases are signed,. We are thinking about the number of individuals related or unrelated in units. That's correct, okay,! Thank you and the question about an onsite manager versus a resident advisor sloan.

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Cob sloane walbert: right,, so the condition requires an onsite manager. I just was trying to describe what the intent was of that condition,. So I know, there was a lot of discussion about having.

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Cob sloane walbert:, a house manager like a sorority, would have,, and it would be similar to something like that as well.

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Pb sarah silver:, so I bring that up because in an apartment, building with 16 apartments having an onsite.

K

Pb sarah silver: super a superintendent basically is not an uncommon thing,, at least in other cities,. I don't know whether it's common in boulder or not.

K

Pb sarah silver:, but having an onsite super, actually can make an apartment, building a very attractive place for families to live,, because it means there's someone there to.

K

Pb sarah silver: deal with problems in the apartment or packages or all those kinds of things,. So I think it's important for us to try to clarify the language when,. If we want this kind of condition to make sure we're clear on the language and the intent.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I think it's up to turn.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, so I have several questions, but I,. How did you want to go about it? Harmon should I just mention one and then maybe go around after some other people speak or.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah. I think that would be good,. And if you have a couple that kind of go together,, you could do too,, but yeah yeah.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, so so some of this topic, some some of my colleagues, brought up so one, for example,. Is this whole idea of the onsite manager,, which I think is a good idea.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:- um I you know I happen to be one of those census takers, this last summer, and when I was going around buildings,, I really needed to meet with managers, when I was trying to do.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: get any information,. It was very difficult so in an environment, like this one,, where we are literally right in a residential area where already our neighbors are opposed to the big change.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, I'm concerned they're not having an onsite manager, would really make things worse,. So that was one of my concerns and I like to know, because.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:. It appears that the applicant is not leaning towards having one, so um I wanted to hear from on. Maybe our staff had they consider. What is the alternative and also in terms of.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:. What really happens if rules are not followed in the middle of the night, or I mean if I couldn't find people at 530 in the afternoons,. I doubt that anybody's going to find.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: somebody at 10 when you know the noise is high, or something. So that's my concern. How would that be handle on the spot.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: because I'm afraid that the neighbors might have to deal with it themselves, and so,. How does that translate also clearly into any liabilities or true responsibility for the applicant who chooses to have undergraduate and that property.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so I can't speak.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah go ahead.

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Cob sloane walbert:, I was just gonna say I can't speak to the liability piece,, but I can kind of describe what we were thinking,. So the condition does state that the good neighbor agreement would be revised to very clearly.

N

Cob sloane walbert: describes the role of that onsite manager and provide their direct contact information,. So the idea would be if you were a neighbor. You have their direct contact. Information.

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Cob sloane walbert:, and in addition to that you could,, if you had a noise complaint,, you can call. You know boulder police at any time,. So I think there's sort of the idea would be first, you would tried onsite manager,. If you weren't able to reach them,, then you would take other enforcement.

N

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: yeah. Thank you. Thank you so following, that is,, I think, somebody brought it up also. How does that translate into you know the responsibility if.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, I think, carmen brought up the whole issue that three strikes and you're out,. I think that came up last last at our last discussion, so say, for example.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: they have these recurrent complaints and.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:: how does that.

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pb, lupita d montoya: translate into.

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pb,, lupita d? Montoya:? I don't, I don't know penalties or fines for the applicant.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: get that we have something describe. I mean: what is that? What is the usual.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, well then,. There are different ways to enforce.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, one is the current code standards that already exist and an applicant has to comply with the conditions of approval and if an applicant doesn't comply with the conditions of approval,, the city manager can take criminal enforcement and criminal enforcement. Action.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, which would bring the case into municipal court, and.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, the judge, found guilty in an in violation of the development agreement,, which would include the conditions of approval,. Then the judge could impose criminal penalties.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, there's also an avenue to impose.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, administrative remedies,, where the city manager makes a finding that a violation of the agreement has occurred, and then the.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, the applicant, has an opportunity to ask for a hearing to contest that and then the city would have to prove the violation.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, the remedies for those is a conviction.

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Katherine van der spek, applicant: that., hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, defines a pretty low first one,, I think, is it's 50 or $100, and it kind of goes up to either 500 or 1000 for the third violation,. But there are also other remedies that orders can be issued to ensure compliance with the agreement in the future,. A rental license can be revoked.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, if a property becomes a problem, property there's also a process called nuisance abatement that the city can take. Usually that takes effect that they have to be a certain number of ideation spend a certain within a certain number of time.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, it's also a civic process that can be used to try to bring a property in compliance, that is more geared toward code. Compliance.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, versus., hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, a development agreement on I don't remember off the top of my head of. If the development agreement separate vs listed and then there is.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: an opportunity to bring the application back in front of the planning board,, and I think you all.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: hit one of those in front of you pretty recently for a restaurant that was in in violation of their management, plan.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, so, then,, the planning board, gets to take a look at it and decide. Do we revoke this approval, or do we make changes to the conditions of approval to better address the concerns.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: and the xp and, finally, I wanted to also mention.

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hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, there's actually also a private remedy in the code that allows private.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, private citizens, residents of the city,, who are injured by a violation of an approval, bring a private action against the person bound by an approval. So that's available to smell in the city wouldn't be involved in that.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: thank you, that helps a lot, and so,, but when we talking about violations a.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: we're talking about the applicant right, we're now going to if they, if they neighbors have, you know legitimate complaints and they want to follow that last route,. There will be dealing in complaining about the owner,, so the management company right that.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: just to make sure. pb, lupita d montoya: that he's not going to be,. You know the students are they going to go after, but the owners and- and that will be a not a smaller number, that that helps a lot,. Thank you very much..

Q

Pb, lupita d, montoya: I'll, say my elements put another round.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any other members of planning board with questions.

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Pb, david ensign: yeah.

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Pb, david ensign:, when looking through the conditions, I realized that this property is in the neighborhood parking program, district.

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Pb, david ensign: and for the adjacent streets,, and I know that a lot of times, different departments in the city may not coordinate,. So I just wanted to.

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Pb, david ensign: ask: is there been any coordination with npp for folks who move into these units? Could they apply for either a resident or a visitor permit through mvp and.

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Pb, david ensign: that happened kind of parallel to this, so or do we need to address that in that condition in some way.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: I.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I didn't. hella pannewig assistant city attorney:. I didn't directly address that, but I did.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I don't know that we can put that in a condition,, because it is this, it's the city, it's not the applicant,. The conditions are for the applicant to comply with,, or is this the city.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, so we didn't draft anything like that in there,. It would be a violation well,. Maybe somebody could obtain a neighborhood parking permit,, but then the parking itself might be in violation of the approval.

P

Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: and that's what the city would pursue. Them.

G

P

Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: does that make sense.

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Pb, david ensign:, it does,- and I guess maybe we can deal with this if we want to add a little language, but um it could seem possible that it might make sense for to allow for them to have some visitor.

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Pb, david ensign: mbps for family members that come by and want to park overnight, or something,, but I don't know if that is a lie,. You know, is something we should be trying to.

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Pb, david ensign: to to attack, but.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I believe the condition doesn't address visitor parking it. It restricts, tenant, parking.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, and it wouldn't restrict.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I don't and I'm going to be through it again,, but I don't think it would restrict obtaining visitor parking. Passes.

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Cob sloane walbert: hell. I don't think it does, and I would just point out that's consistent with cooperative housing units. They they sign an agreement, limiting the number of vehicles, but that doesn't apply to visitors. It's just tenants.

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Pb, david ensign:, okay, so.

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Cob sloane walbert:. I think we were intentionally silent on visitors.

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Pb, david ensign: okay, so do similar kinds of properties. Currently today could get a visitor past or something it kind of separate from what they've agreed to his tenants and sounds like.

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Cob sloane walbert: thank you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: who's, next.

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Pb, peter vitale:, coming off leader, comment.

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Pb, peter vitale: and good night, they just a tenant, have their friend visitor.

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Pb, peter vitale: keep their car for a semester and pocket there.

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Pb, peter vitale: do they need an actual visitor pass.

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Cob sloane walbert:. Sorry, I'm looking at the language.

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Cob sloane walbert: I believe.

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Pb sarah silver: yeah.

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Cob sloane walbert: so., cob, sloane walbert:, it's still states if a parking spaces assignment agreement shall record the driver's license and the motor vehicle license plate make model and type.

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Cob sloane walbert: and the parking agreement is incorporated into the lease,, so I think the intent of that is recording whose car will be parking there and verifying.

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Cob sloane walbert: that driver's license but.

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cob sloane walbert:. I suppose we we could probably add to that to.

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Cob sloane walbert: try and be more restrictive., pb sarah silver: and maybe there,. Maybe there's a way to work with npp program to have the building have x number of visitor tags.

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And pb sarah silver: that could be utilized when needed.

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Pb, sarah silver: sorry hello,, I didn't mean interrupt you.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: know no worries. I was just.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I haven't, I don't, have the npp program pulled up on my screen. I don't know if sloan maybe knows at the top of her head how the visitor passes works,. I assume that would be a limit on usage of those.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, are they do,? They function similar to a resident, pass up and start digging. For.

K

Pb sarah silver: know I can tell you,, because I live in an empty p. Zone, you get to park. I think they actually changed it from 72 hours to two days, and then you have to you,. You have to move your car move, the guest car.

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Pb sarah silver: and pb sarah silver: and a home I get to visitor. I get two tags for visitors,, not that I ever used them, but I get to tags so, um but they they aren't as.

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Pb sarah silver: generous with the time as they used to be.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. Well, let's hope that someday you'll be able to use your visitor tags again. Sarah.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, do you mean, does to text per year.

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Pb sarah silver: yeah, so the tags that hang on your rear view mirror,, so the visitor car it gets hung on their rear view mirror and when they leave, they give it back to me but.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya:, I mean,- I live in a regular residential area,, but what I'm trying to figure out whether you, you can only use those tags, a certain number of days, a year, or is it you can have two guests, at all times, as long as they move the car every 72 hours. That is okay.

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Pb sarah silver:, that is correct,, and I can tell you in my neighborhood, where we have that does happen,. You see the same car sort of moving their way around the block over the course of time.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya:- and this is for guest interesting.

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Pb sarah silver: and it, but it's a fine program, but maybe again maybe the maybe there's some way to intersect with npp program to have the building itself have some x number of tags that are distributable when needed to to tenants, who have overnight guests or family with cart. You know.

F

Pb, lisa smith: I'll. Just hang on to that, I think that's clever.

F

Pb, lisa smith:. We have to think about whether we can further constrain it. That way,, if they're already in an mvp districts, know if that's something that's permissible, I'm not sure,, but what I like about, that is, it kind of requires you to walk back up to the front desk and.

F

Pb, lisa smith: theoretically,. If there's someone in the building like a super or a house manager, you know hand it back over and say you know: okay, my person left here's my tag, you know and, and you know, get that parking.

F

Pb, lisa smith:, you know long term storage, parking problem that you can get. You know when, when everybody gets to for everybody in that building. So again, I'm not sure.

F

Pb, lisa smith:. If yeah, I don't know if we can legally,, you know I'll leave that to staff and hello,. But you know if we can exempt a certain building from the npp.

F

Pb, lisa smith:, that's kind of smart, you know and then also you could even go in and have a sign and check out sheet,, you know be like hey, I'm gonna have some so visiting and staying with me, and I want to check it out for these three days, and you know you just find a way to police it within the building.

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Pb, david ensign: harmon can I jump in since I kind of oh yeah.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: go ahead. pb, david ensign: yeah. I guess that would be something that if we can get an answer to tonight, weather.

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Pb, david ensign: mvp is not the most flexible program. There they've been meaning to update it for years, and the tab has been screaming for them to update it for years. So.

L

Pb, david ensign:- and I don't know if there's an example anywhere of special case in the npp, but this I think what we're talking about.

L

Pb, david ensign: is a special case because we're trying to stave off the idea that perhaps residents here would circumvent the.

L

Pb, david ensign:, good neighbor agreement and everything they agreed to with the landlord and everything that they've done. Moving into this place by just going ahead and applying for the permits and getting them.

L

Pb, david ensign: back could really, really mess things up,, so I don't know if there is a.

L

Pb, david ensign: an example of an exception to the mvp, so that would be just something if, as we go through. If we can talk about.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: it okay. Let's, let's try to reel it back in two questions for staff or the applicant about the conditions, and then we can get into deliberation any more questions.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: john.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah on a on a different topics related to this.

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Pb, john gerstle:, to what degree can can there be a condition that incentivizes or requires the owner to move from a.

E

Pb, john gerstle:, you know, decent starting in september, to lisa's, starting in january, or some other time of year,. You know clearly something which would have an effect of removing the the focus towards students.

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Pb, john gerstle: to to other members of the population.

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Pb, john gerstle: can we have a condition one.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I think there could be a condition like that. I don't know if the current proposal is specific as to the start and end date of leases,, but it seems, similar to the requirement.

P

Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: to not automatically vacate the premises in august, for the entire month,. So I think that could be could craft something like that.

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Pb, john gerstle: well,, the I mean the way it's written now and the staff proposal that it again leaves discretion to the owner or to the manager. And so I'm wondering if we can be more.

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Pb, john gerstle:, proactive than that.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: yeah, I think we can we can look into. We can do that probably and once we start drafting a condition.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, where you start drafting a condition that can provide more input,, but I don't see a problem with that.

G

Pb harmon zuckerman:, if there had her hand up.

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Pb, sarah silver: yes,, that's a quick question. It's a I'm wondering hella. As a when we start drafting conditions, is it.

K

Pb, sarah silver:: what could we consider adding in that list? Of.

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Pb sarah silver: enforcement steps that you described to loopy to earlier, so that it's all that those steps must be listed in the good neighbor agreement so that everyone knows what.

K

Pb sarah silver:, what the sort of ladder of options are rather than.

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Pb sarah silver: putting the burden on our neighbors to figure out what they, what their options are.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, the what I listed are all procedures that are set forth in the in the border. Revised code.

P

Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: and most of those are.

P

Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: are done by staff, most important enforcement methods, um okay.

P

Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I don't know that it would be helpful to have that in that agreement.

K

Pb sarah silver:, I'm just trying to think I'm just yeah okay, well,. We can just discuss it. Later.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman:. You still have some things.

Q

Pb harmon zuckerman: yes,, yes., pb,, lupita d montoya:. Another question I had had to do with a quiet hours that the applicant proposed and he commented that then times that he selected is our own part to what a restaurant, you know, being in the premises,. You know kind of like the equivalent.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya: in I wanted to ask regarding quiet hours on residential areas that are more on par with having families with children,, or you know, people who work from home.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya:, and not necessarily, if there's a big difference,. I would like to hear about those if they can kind of compare them.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya:, because that was one part that resonated with me regarding whether this is really getting this particular property aligned better with the residential, also post, to continue to move it away from what a residential.

Q

Pb, lupita d, montoya: kind of space.

Q

pb, lupita d montoya:- does that make sense.

N

Cob sloane walbert:, so I think I think, I'm understanding the question,. So the current noise regulations have quiet hours in residential zone districts from 11pm to 7am.

N

Cob sloane walbert: that doesn't that isn't based on the neighborhood. It's just across the board residential districts, and I did do a little research of other communities with colleges and.

N

Cob sloane walbert: ours are a little bit more lenient than some and basically on par with others,. So I didn't find anything that was drastically different.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, so there is really no difference. What the applicant proposed mentioned, specifically that this will be a part of you, know, our equivalent to having a restaurant in your neighborhood and that's kind of like my question. Was.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya:, so 11pm.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: seems to be reasonable for neighborhoods you don't we don't have a problem with neighbors.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so I'm going to cut you off those times are left blank in the conditions of approval, so we're going to deliberate on what the appropriate times are. Yeah.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, so that's why.,.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I don't think that staff has an.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: answer as to whether they're different quiet hours for different neighborhood but like.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: well,. I appreciate you pointing it out,, but the applicant specifically talked about those times, and I wanted to make sure that this is something that is on par with, while we have elsewhere well,. This is something that.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, you know,, he brought up, based on what he thinks he needs, or you know the company needs. Does that make sense.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, it does make sense, yes,. I want to make sure that.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: for my own peace of mind.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: right yeah. What so I just jumped in with the applicant and suggested was that the quiet hours that we choose to apply would be the quiet hours that are in the code.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: well,, the whole point of we looking at this at this is not necessarily following code,. So if we are going to be dealing with this.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: modifications.

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pb,, lupita d montoya:. The code may not be sufficient. That's the whole point.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:: are you asking what the hours are that are in the code.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: are those 11 to seven and are those the only choices we have? Will this be sufficient to satisfy the.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: apprehension that the neighbors have,, which to me seems that they're very severe,, considering that they're likely going to be breaking of those.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: hours, quiet hours,, based on the population that they are considering to have there.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, so all of these things are connected in my mind,. So my question is: is that reasonable to think that may be to a piece and.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, not necessarily just to appease, but you know,, to show the community our neighbors there that we really seriously thinking, how to protect them.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, so that this works for everyone that there is a possibility that even the quiet hours may be modified so that they are more on part with what they may need..

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, that's my point,. I just wanted to know if there is different different areas where we can consider.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, given that the quiet look at the weekend set the quiet, hours.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, that's just great! Thank you. Okay.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any other questions.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I have a question for for the applicant in the.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: in the linear area of parking space on the right away that was prescribed in the conditions.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:: do you know how many linear feet,? That is an estimate how many cars can park in the right way and that number of linear feet.

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Esa architects, joe coughlin applicant:, we are not sure how far that right, away, is that we can try to get an answer to it.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any other questions for for the applicant.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: john.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah,: this is a for the applicant.

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Pb, john gerstle:, you mentioned in your comments that you expect the manager of the building to live within five minutes walk. I presume of this building.

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Pb, john gerstle:, or were you referring to the office,, the rental office, that you know previous presentation either you or your colleagues mentioned, was on on the hill somewhere nearby. But you said tonight that the managers reside within five minutes of the golden. Is that correct.

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Esa architects, joe coughlin applicant: yes,, that is correct,. Our managers live within five minutes of properties,, as well as the office as well, so.

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Pb, john gerstle:: that's five minutes walking: distance.

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esa architects, joe coughlin applicant:, okay, yes.

E

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any other questions.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay! Well, if, if psa architect comes up with an answer to my question,, you can raise your hand and I think we'll.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: end the comment. esa architects, joe coughlin applicant:, the public, sir. pb harmon zuckerman: well,. In our question and answer session and we'll.

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pb harmon zuckerman: we'll move on deliberation, now.

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Esa architects, joe coughlin applicant:, hold their hands up.

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pb harmon zuckerman:, you know,. We are.

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Esa architects, joe coughlin applicant:, we are estimating that the right of way adjacent to the building on aurora avenue is approximately 90 feet and the right of way on 12th street is approximately 120, bring it to 220 total.

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Esa architects, joe coughlin applicant:, ok., pb, harmon, zuckerman: and pb harmon zuckerman:, then I'm going to ask hello.

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pb harmon zuckerman: a one under parking. The condition speaks to an area bounded by cascade avenue, lincoln place euclid avenue in 14th street.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. What was the idea,? There was just to allow.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: residents to park in in a multiple block area around marfa house and not just on the the right away in front of an adjacent to us..

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, well., hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I think,, maybe transportation came up with this parameter, one of the things by not restricting it to the city,. You know not allowing a tenant to have a vehicle in the city was to.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: allow sometimes students are able to rent parking spaces at the university,. So if somebody was able to you know to to park a car there,, then it seemed like that wouldn't affect the neighborhood. So if there was a parking space within an area that didn't create the impact.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: that we're addressing here,, then that should be allowed, and maybe sloan can speak to why this particular area was chosen.

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Cob sloane walbert:. I think it was just rationally, how far someone would be willing to park their car and walk. So that's up for your.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: your discussion, okay,. I just wanted to understand,. Thank you for that. Okay, any other questions.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: for surely deliberate.

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pb, harmon zuckerman: okay,. Thank you staff,. You know we oftentimes break our promise to leave you alone and just deliberate. Hopefully we won't tonight,, but I'm stick around and I'll turn it over to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: planning board members. What I think I would like to do. Is.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: just go conditioned by condition and, and so we'll start with parking.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, which oh damn it, I actually I do have a question that I just as I was scrolling. I saw it, and it reminded me hello,. I need to ask you this before we do deliberate.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: in no place in the conditions, is a maximum occupancy of 48 set the place where I see maximum occupancy of 48 is in a set of bullets, on page two of this step, mouse.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: so,. How would we I got the notion from listening to you that if a family of five, let's say was in one apartments that somehow the the operator would have to the applicant would have to make up.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: to two two persons, basically by only renting a couple of other apartments to two or one apartment, to one to keep the total number down to 48..

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, but I don't see a hard limit of 48 anywhere, but in the staff report. Is that something that that uh you know you think is relatively of it is,? Is that really enforceable if it's not specifically in the condition.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I have to go back,. I thought that the I think the assumption was that the space is we're going to be vented to unrelated people. 48 unrelated people, essentially.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I did not get the impression that it was that you were interested in limiting related people or families from having more than three people in a unit.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. Well, I'm not, but the the notion is that if there was a family that was allowed to be in a unit and over occupied the unit, or you know,, not by law, but just by the.,.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: limitation of 48 there's nothing in the conditions that says that, with four families of four and 12 units fully occupied at three unrelated that we could stop them from having 52 you know,, because there will be four fours and 12 threes.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, yet there is a hard limit. That's in that set of bullets on the second page,. So you know it's just asking about. You know why we don't have the hard limit in the conditions as well. If that emission was intentional or if that's something that we might add.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I think you could make it a heart limit. It might result in a family being turned away because they have one additional person which potentially could be.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, a violation of of the fair housing act.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, right.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, thanks.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: all right.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, now oh, we have a follow up,. We have to follow up sarah and then david.

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Pb sarah silver:, I'm just gonna, say maybe I mean,. I think this is an important question because we mean this whole conversation is about are there, opportunities and conditions that could expand the potential market for these apartments and I think harmon you bring up a really important question.

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Pb sarah silver: and pb sarah silver:, I think, during our deliberations. We should try to sort of think through how to find the right balance so that the opportunity actually does appear for families to rent their if they choose and have it not undermine the applicants.

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Pb sarah silver: thinking about it. pb, harmon zuckerman: also 300, later yeah. Is this a question.

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Pb sarah silver:, I was responding to your comment.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,. Can you just save it until we deliberate david? Do you have a question,? Are you going to make a comment? To.

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Pb, david ensign: I'll hold off.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,. So now sarah, let's pretend that deliberation started when you brought that point up okay,, but I would ask you just to hold it anyway, and I think I'm probably seeing this a lot, like you, are because I do want to do in order. So let's just go back and do parking.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: thoughts. pb harmon zuckerman: any planning board member may start.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: I'll start sarah. pb, sarah silver:, so I actually, I do. pb sarah silver:. I think these parking conditions are really valuable. I I do think it leaves out this issue that david brought up about guests parking and.

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Pb sarah silver:, I don't know how we.

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pb sarah silver: talk that through or resolve it when we don't have someone from the parking program here to explain to us what might be special conditions.

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Pb sarah silver:, but I like what's here and I just think we're missing- that one bit about long term guests, longer term guests parking, then being there for a party or dinner one overnight.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, then david, then lisa.

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Pb, david ensign: sure yeah. I also would be very interested in whether we could, without putting the city into too much hot water.

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Pb, david ensign: really make this a special npp case. Where.

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Pb, david ensign:, the bill building, shares guest pat parking passes and is asked not to apply for any beyond the beyond the ones that are approved for on right away parking and then I'll just add. That.

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Pb, david ensign:, you know, as we go through this. If, if we, if we want to really you know, if we're going to be really tough on some things, I think the applicants request to consider 16 on the street is not outrageous. So if other planning board members want to be a little flexible on that.

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Pb, david ensign:, that would mean that they would have eight on site and then one per unit that they could use on the street,. The eight on site could be used for you know for other. You know, for.

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Pb,, david ensign:, maybe some people do have more than one in a unit, or whatever,, but it would give them a little more flexibility,. So I just wanted to.

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Pb, david ensign: voice that that might be an area where, where I could be a little flexible, if we want, if we're trying to be harder on some other things.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: lisa, then john.

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Pb, lisa smith:, I was just gonna, say I have some hazy memory and maybe staff members assert your can talk to someone who remembers this better than I do. Have.

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Pb, lisa smith: another building like apartment building, the did have a restriction that was tighter than what the npp was.

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Pb, lisa smith: so I'll just say: if staff has the capacity to bother other people who may or may not be looking at their email, for good reason.

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Pb, lisa smith: that that it would be interesting,, I second, what other planning board members have said,, and I just love to know.

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Pb, lisa smith: what flexibility we do or don't have and kind of applying parameters around how visitor passes work,, even though they are technically within the confines of the npp zone.

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Pb, lisa, smith: and then, for the parking thing I might be open to being a bit more flexible. I'm not sure I want to give 16 on streets thoughts,, but I might be willing to go above the eight so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: john.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, how about a meeting first.

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Pb, john gerstle: of. pb, john gerstle:. All those wise comments last forever, on.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: recreate them, please.

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Pb, john gerstle:- I I don't want to get into the numbers here,, but I have to say that I am very skeptical about the actual way in which this will be any sort of parking limits will be enforced. Here.

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Pb, john gerstle: speaking as a someone who was a student in a very tight urban area with very limited parking options with an old car. I got very ingenious and.

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Pb, john gerstle: moved a lot in the gray area from my experience in parking, and I suspect that that's what will happen here too,. So I I have other.

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Pb, john gerstle: more serious comments on on other conditions,, but on this one I, I just want to say that I, I really am skeptical about the enforcement that will occur with no matter what numbers, we decide and.

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Pb, john gerstle:, in fact, we are putting the burden on the neighbors to carry out the enforcement,. As far as I can tell.

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Pb, peter vitale: peter I couldn't agree more with john. I was about to say that I know this is an important topic,. I feel strongly about the other topics and.

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Pb, peter vitale: in a almost tom waits bukovsky way. I have never met a parking requirement. I couldn't circumvent.

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Pb, peter vitale: and I've, no doubt the same will happen here,. So I know it's important. I do agree that putting the burden on the neighbors is the wrong direction,. But again I'm staying silent, because.

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Pb, peter vitale:. We have folks on the board, who seem to live and breathe parking and may not have a dim as dim view of humanity,. As I do.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay, up to them, lisa.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: um well,. I just want to add to the concerns. I live in cities, where parking was my biggest headache that three years I lived in boston was, it was impossible, and you just gotta find a way to survive it and I'm afraid that, having more students.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: deal with his parking situation that people who are actually going to end up by paying for this headache is going to be the neighbors and.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, I have,- I have a hard time thinking this is going to work easily,. So I think the parking is still I'm problematic to me.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: police's next.

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Pb, lisa smith:, um I was just going to say, and I didn't review it before tonight,, but some of the most effective ways I've seen to do with parking have to do with incentives,. You know so. I've seen some really cool things that that may or may not be.

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Pb, lisa smith: of interest to somebody like a residential provider,, but it's things that city can do and the tab looks at and other people look at where.

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Pb, lisa smith:, you reduce trips and you reduce you know you provide off sites,. You know garage covered parking where people who don't need to have their car every day haven't and so on, and.

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Pb, lisa smith:. I don't think we're necessarily going to work that into the restrictions,. I just wanted to mention that. It's absolutely true that you can find a way to circumvent any parking restriction and that often what works better, is carrots rather than sticks..

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Pb, lisa, smith: and again,, unless we're going to try to configure that for this particular.

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Pb, lisa smith: site and development,. I agree with other folks and I'm not sure how much, how specific, how much getting really specific is going to help us.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: oh., pb, harmon zuckerman: david go ahead and then.

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Pb, david ensign: I'll just I'll just add that yeah I mean,. I agree with absolutely everything that john's here and peter and lisa all said to me about the fact that people will it,, especially young people,. I, when I got my masters at nyu.

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Pb, david ensign:, I will,, I know you know yeah, I will you walk eight blocks, if you have to so it's,, but I think that we just I mean you can always.

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Pb, david ensign: agonize over these things or my thing just ask ourselves,: are there any additional specific things that we can do you know,? So if there are great,- and I would support them, because we know that but.

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Pb, david ensign:, otherwise we just have to do the best we can, with the tools that we have,, I guess, so at least, at least where.

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Pb,, david ensign:, you know if we, if there was an additional enforcement thing, that we can think about that's fine,, but that I don't know that we can just. We can't change human behavior.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, so I was gonna say that with the applicant statement that they measured it off and there there's 220 feet of parking along aurora and 12.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you know, I don't think people in boulder park, particularly well like people in new york and boston, who can get a 16 foot cards, with a 16 foot three inch spot, so maybe 20 feet per 20 feet. Per.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: car parking in the right away: 20 linear feet,. We still have 11 parking spaces in the right away, adjacent to this property and you know, mostly in neighborhoods. I think people are possessive about people parking in front of their property. So.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you know,. I think that this property can support easily 11 cars parked in the right away.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: with 220 linear feet,. I also don't like to make decisions based on what I think people are going to do to try to circumvent the law, and you know,, and I also don't like to make decisions where we make a special class of people.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, like everybody else in boulder, can get a visitor parking pass for their friends when they come to stay,, but not these people and and I'm very sensitive about that,. So you know,. I would like to start from an assumption of good faith and try to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: create a condition which I think staff is largely done.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: that. pb harmon zuckerman:, that that mitigates the the impact of this us on its neighboring community.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, and so you know I guess I would. I would support raising the number from eight to 11 or 12. You know sort of halfway between the proposal of eight and the applicants requested 16.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and I don't. pb harmon zuckerman: think that there is anything that I would support. Around.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: some restriction on path is, I think, and fast,, especially hella, can jump in and tell me if, if what I'm suggesting is illegal, one thing that we could do.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: to try to have a little bit more control is,. We could simply make every tenant sign a disclosure as to whether or not they own a motor vehicle and if they do to provide its license, number, and then,. If somebody is abusing.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: the visitor permit.

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pb harmon zuckerman:, but using it to park their car, we're going to have a record of that tenant tied to that car and so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. You know that could be one way, which would maybe add one word to a two.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: are slightly changing that sentence in a tour around the disclosure obligation of the tenants.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: somebody had their hand up who wanted to go next. Sarah.

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Pb sarah silver: I did, but sloan sloan, had something she wanted to say. So.

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Cob sloane walbert: sorry,. It wasn't. Let me raise my hand to bits of information that might be helpful.

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Cob sloane walbert: we had the information about npp passes at the last hearing from parking services. They base, the number of eligible permits, based on the rental license, so they look to see what the rental license states and that's how they determine how many passes they get.

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Cob sloane walbert:, so I would assume that would apply to gas passes as well,. I also wanted to just sort of for your reference point out that the npp.

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Cob sloane walbert: in terms of the adjacent streets to this would only apply to 12 streets, so someone could park on the south side of aurora. They could park on 11th cascade.

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Cob sloane walbert:. So I'm not sure if that affects your discussion,, but we're really only talking about 12 street for the npp.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, no, sir.

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Pb sarah silver: yes,, so I'm.

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Pb sarah silver: harmon, I don't have a problem with upping the number 211 if, if 20 feet per card, seems like a reasonable amount of parking, space.

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Pb sarah silver:, but I wonder,, given that we don't know enough about the get we just don't mean. I really appreciate sloane's information that she just shared with us,, but could we have a condition.

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Pb sarah silver: add a condition that just says when we have more information about npp and guest passes,, we could revisit just that particular element of the condition.

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Pb sarah silver:, because we're not going to get that information tonight, and I do think that, again. I don't know how the npp in that neighborhood works,, but if there are 48 leases.

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Pb sarah silver: each gets two guest passes that could be.

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Pb sarah silver: really problematic.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: pizza.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: yeah, I know how I will read it. In fact, I think even two passes for one house call. Sorry, sarah. I think it's too much.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: and,, but this is just my opinion right so good to know that you have that option having two people always parked based on where you live. The since can odd but.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, the the for this particular place. I'm thinking.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: did, I understand well, and only one side of the street really is available for this community,, the other one I mean for this, for this building.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: in the other side of the street that we were considering as the total really is open for anyone,. So you cannot restrict it to be used just for this building.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, based on what sloan just mentioned.

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Cob sloane walbert:, instead of assuming that's a question, is that a question for me: yeah.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: it sounds.

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pb,, lupita d, montoya: good. I interpret what you said: properly.

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Cob sloane walbert: right,, so the way the conditions are written do not prescribe where people may park it's restricting them,. So I was just describing in terms of the npp program what sides of the street, it applies to and it doesn't apply to the south side of aurora,, which is what.

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Cob sloane walbert:, what's adjacent to this.

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cob sloane walbert:. Does that answer your question.

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Yeah. pb, david ensign: subject, if I could, um that is that, does kind of bring up the kind of clumsy question here is: okay, before silent on mtp,, then I guess those.

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Pb, david ensign:, 16., pb,, david ensign: or 16 cars are about eight eight or I'm sorry, eight to 11 and cars, who are going to be parking in the right of way.

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Pb, david ensign:: if they're going to choose to use the 12th street side,, then they'll have to get an mvp to do that kind of separate from this whole process, and I guess that works, but again, it kind of.

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Pb, david ensign: kind of stay silent on the question of whether people might choose to abuse the npp as well,, which they potentially could.

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Pb, david ensign:, if you could apply for two or three just by to then and just quietly slip into somebody. I know I know it's it's clumsy to think about all these little things but,, but it is just it's a strange interplay. We just have to realize exists.

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Pb sarah silver: well,, I think this.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: is the. The thing is that the parking restriction says eight cars can parked and can be parked in the right away in like an eight square block area or 10 square block area or something.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: so anywhere where there isn't an mvp.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: they can park in anywhere, where there is an mtv they can park if they also take the additional step of getting a path.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so you know I don't want to see us get wrapped around the axle joining up with the npp does not. You know, allow somebody to circumvent the requirement.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: that no more than eight or 12 or 11 or 16 cars parked in the right of way in this prescribed area, that's between cascade, lincoln, euclid and 14th.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: so, again,. I would say that if you want to try to limit the number,, you want to try to do something. That's going to make gaming the system, which has nothing to do with the mvp. It just has to do with having a car in that area.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. If you want to make that more difficult than you know, I've offered an idea which is, you have to disclose when you own a car.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and,, and what that cars, identifying information is and then,. If somebody keep seeing a person walking from a car to this residence- and it looks like it's an extra car,, then they can have the city run. That play.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: see if it ties back to one of the tenants.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: david.

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Pb, david ensign:, and, and the way the condition is currently worded. Only the property owner keeps those plates make model and type associated with the tenant so.

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Pb, david ensign:, the city, wouldn't be able to find find that out, they would have to. If somebody wanted to complain about it,, the the.

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Pb, david ensign: car that they see parked around there, they would. It would have to be then querying with the with the owner of the market house to determine that that violation that occurred, the way it's currently written right, because the city, are you proposing that the city, then keep that database.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: a new data, no,. No I'm proposing I'm proposing that instead of.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the only the people who get assigned parking.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, giving up that information. Every tenant has to sign a disclosure.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: that they do or don't own a vehicle and if they own a vehicle than the vehicles identifying information, those with their name and their lease..

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Pb sarah silver:- I like that idea.

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pb sarah silver:, but I think david's, making an important point,, which is- and it comes back to something john's been talking about, which is a lot of this- is putting the work required. The enforcement responsibility on neighbors to sort of be alert, so that question of, where is that information.

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Pb sarah silver:: how was that information made available? Um.

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Pb sarah silver:, who else has that information, I think,, is worth asking whether that's something to expand.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: well,. I don't so I'm going to just respond to that directly. Sarah. I think that the unfortunate truth is that the way the code is written in boulder and just about everywhere else is that until there's, a problem.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the city doesn't just go around proactively patrolling right and I don't want to live in a society like that, and so,. If there's no parking problem, the nobody's going to complain and then the city doesn't have to do anything and if all of a sudden after you know, a year.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the person living at you know 865.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: discovers that they haven't been able to park in front of their house four nights in a row, you know,, then they might think that that martha house is abusing. You know their parking.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: allowance and then you call the city and you make a complaint and then the city can come out and do some enforcement,. So I don't think that we want to force the city to you, know proactively, enforce the conditions of this use, review, yeah.

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Pb,, david ensign: and I'll just add that that's why I was asking you harm and I wanted to make sure that you weren't proposing that, and I understand that it does.

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Pb, david ensign:, like you, say sarah, it does illuminate that process but,, but I think it would be unreasonable for the city to have a to be tracking that data,. So I just want to make sure.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, sarah. What I would suggest is that you know, since tenants come and go, and the landlord the only one who keeps all those leads. His current.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: they're they're, the one that's going to keep the information.

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pb harmon zuckerman:. If you want to get more responsiveness, I'd look at a seven which says within five business days of a request by the city manager and make it three or make it to within 48 hours of a request.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you know, don't give the management company they've only got 48. Leases tops, don't give the management company five days to respond to an issue in less time.

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Pb sarah silver: yeah, it's that that makes sense to me,. I mean I think these are all this is a tweak that should be relatively straight, could be relatively straightforward.

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Pb, sarah silver:, would you be willing to change that to like.

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Pb sarah silver: two business days, one business, I mean I don't I'm not a landlord. So I don't know what is reasonable.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:: oh, let's take a thumb poll on two business days.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. What other planning board members support that change from five business days of within five days of request by the city manager, the applicants will provide that information around parking tenants assigned with spaces and so forth, would people support from five down to two.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so we got 125. I think it looks like five out of seven of us would support that. Change.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, and, while we're at it would people support the change that I recommended around.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: requiring a parking disclosure for everyone.

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I think that's good.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, so we're getting all thumbs on that anybody with a downtown.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: awesome, okay., pb, harmon, zuckerman: okay,. So is there any other thing oh.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: now for number one: how many motor vehicles in the right away, 811 1216, we've heard four numbers, so far, any proposal that we want to vote on with our thumbs.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: 12.

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Pb sarah silver:, can I ask a question of sloan.

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pb sarah silver: I'd like to understand how they can have the staff came up with a number eight.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I think we said it. It's it's in the separate workbook, the head.

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Cob sloane walbert: right so in the prior meeting, it was suggested,, maybe one per unit, and they have nine on site parking spaces,. But one of those is accessible,, so the idea would be there's eight non accessible spaces on site and a space is located in the right. Way.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, well dave. I I go up to 12 if that was what you suggested, want to take a vote on 12.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, good everybody, okay with 12 sarah uptown downtown for 12.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, it looks like.

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Pb, john gerstle:, I have. pb, john gerstle:, a question here, in the previous meeting,, where we talked about this,. The landlord made it clear that he was going to be.

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Pb, john gerstle: splitting parking and unbundling parking and rent for apartments and charging for the for the parking space. So are we expecting him to charge for the limited availability, of.

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Pb, john gerstle: public parking spaces as well, so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: I. pb harmon zuckerman:. I wouldn't expect that but.

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I'd be novel.

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Pb, john gerstle:, I mean that that would be a good way of raising money. For.

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Pb, john gerstle:, the public street does.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: right,. You can rent the city's property.

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Pb, lisa smith: for the public good and then charge for it.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, yeah, right., pb, harmon, zuckerman: okay,, so david, you did say 12 right was. That was your suggestion that we can vote on. Okay, so can I see the thumbs again,? Who would support 12.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, like we got five six libido. Is that a thumb up for you yep okay,? So we got six? Who would support going to 12.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, which is basically tied to the 220 linear feet of available parking in the right of way, jason to the property. So it's a little less than 20 feet per car and average cars 15 feet. Long.

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Pb, sarah silver:, so it assumes that nobody else ever parks there.

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Pb, john gerstle:, which I. pb sarah silver: which,, I think,- maybe I mean,, I know I said fine with 11, but it just seems like that. Maybe I'm mistaken assumption.

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Pb sarah silver:, but you know.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah, I mean I'm just looking given the density of the neighborhood, where you know,, the average frontage is 60 or 70 feet,, which you know anybody can park.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, two cars in their driveway and one in their garage and three in front of their house, probably not probably aren't that many people need to park in front of our bows.

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Pb sarah silver: true.

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Pb, david ensign: yeah, like anywhere else, if, if all the spaces are filled in front of your house, you park across the street,, it just is the way public parking on streets work like I said.

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Pb sarah silver: yes, and I'm not I'm not opposed to the 12, I'm just. I think it is,. It does assume that those that that is not a park area at this point,- and I do think this point that john raised,, which is.

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Pb sarah silver: will. pb, sarah silver:, the distribution of those parking spots.

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Pb sarah silver: cannot be a charge.

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Pb sarah silver:, because it's it's renting public space.

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Pb sarah silver:, but I don't know how we.

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pb sarah silver:, unless the landlord, unless the the applicant is going to give that money back to the city.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah. I think if you want to call the applicant up and ask whether they would ever increase the rent based on who gets the.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: assigned parking and the right away,. We can do that, but.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, that's fine! I would imagine that they're only going to charge for parking in areas that they own for the eight or nine parking spaces on their lot.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: would be a pretty weird least provision.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yes. pb harmon zuckerman: pay for parking on the street. pb sarah silver: yes,, except that they can only park on the street, by getting one of these tags. Or I mean the the connection is a tag from the from the from the applicants to a tenant.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: so anyways, but jim johnson yeah.

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Jim johnson:, we unequivocally do not intend to charge for right away spaces,. There will be no charging for right away. Spaces.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: ok,, so the changes that I'm hearing or to change a one to from no more than a to no more than 12 to change condition. A seven from within five business days to within two business. Days.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and pb harmon zuckerman: in a to.

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pb harmon zuckerman: hell,. If you don't mind.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, while we move on to be,, could you draft one sentence to add to a to requiring the disclosure.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: from every tenant as to whether they own a vehicle and if so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: that they provide the license plate, make model and type, just like the other sentence, you have in their drivers, license in the motor vehicle, license plate, make model and type and and and that way and requiring that the landlord would keep that information with each leaf..

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Pb, john gerstle: actually,. I think we need to say own or use because probably some of these vehicles owned by their parents and they're using yourself.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I'm not sure how you do. That, but.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, the five business days response time.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, we actually have that in three places,, not just in parking but also into other places.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, with regard to you, know,, responding providing information on records of violations that had occurred, and.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, we got to die.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and it's in be three as well.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and I.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, will., pb, harmon zuckerman: personally, I'd be fine with a you know, copy and replace for a find and replace and just change five to two for everything,, because it's a small apartment building, with.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, an onsite manager and nearby office, so does every. Can I get sums on whether we want to just do a find the replaced on two days and make it.

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Pb harmon, zuckerman: or five business days to make it to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, we got four places, make five pizzas cameras off dave. Are you looking to say yes to that or no.

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Pb, david ensign: no,. I didn't raise my thumb last time and I'm not going to raise the day during this time because okay jimmy five days basically reasonable,, but um but I'm not gonna, go crazy. If it's too.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, all right, well,. I think we do have the the majority hello for changing it over to two business days for all information, request.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, so hell is going to work on the a to condition for when we're ready.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: to see if we have a motion now, let's go to be for quiet, hours.,.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: I'll just start out by saying I I like the way that the whole quiet our section is written and the hours that I would suggest. Are.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: 10 and 7:10pm and 7am on the weekdays and 11 and 8am 11pm and 8am on the weekend.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, but david.

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Pb,, david ensign:: that's exactly what I wrote down until I read the code inside something different there. So yeah, I thought that, for this particular property would be a really good sad,, especially since staff took the time to divided into those weekdays and on weekdays. So that's what I wrote. Down.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. Here it's got to sum up any other comments on this.

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Pb, john gerstle: done yeah. I'm trying to understand the sentence of the the clear the condition here. Tenants, who are present, are responsible for the noise generated within their dwelling. Unit.

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Pb,, john gerstle:, I don't know what that means. I think we want the management. My perception is that we should want the manager to be responsible, for.

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Pb, john gerstle: for making sure that it doesn't happen and controlling and we don't want to deal with the individual felon tenants,. We want to deal with the with the owner and the manager of this building.

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Pb sarah silver: agree with that.

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Pb, john gerstle: and,, and if the, if there are some statement in the leash between the the owner and the tenant about possible, that's fine that doesn't concern us,, but we want to not deal with tenants,. We want to deal with the the owner and the manager.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: so interesting. It says on my notes, for that section to just put my little comments, side, and I think that's very important at the end of the day,. I do believe that there should be the responsibility of the owner,, not the tenants they truth.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: the tenants but they're making the choice of who they're going to be listening to so ultimately, they should be responsible.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:. So this is to me problematic from the very beginning there who have chosen differently,, but that this is what they want, so that they have to ultimately be responsible, whatever.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: their tenants do or don't do.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. So this is the the belt and suspenders approach of requiring that the project as a whole, meet the quiet, hours requirement and I, like the sentence. It's the last sentence.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: in the first paragraph of be that says during the quiet hours no person on the property shell, so that's tenants and their guests, and you know.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: contractors who ever is on the property,. No one shall make the loud noises and amplified noises and so forth,, but the serbs, neighbors and then the second full paragraph.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: below the the requirements there and under be says, basically,. What the lease has to say: so,. It gives, with a lease with language like that it gives the landlord.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: the hammer of being able to say to a tenant. I can break your lease if you violate the condition of approval here that you remain quiet.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, and so you know,. I think that it would be what you're doing is you're saying that the the city,, if one tenants, a problem, tenant.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, if you take out all that stuff about tenant responsibility, you're saying that the city's got one option,, which is to call into question the use review.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: or take enforcement action against the project,, the property,, the owner,, and I think you need to have the landlord well,. I mean,. Why have somebody on site who's, an onsite manager if they can't.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: provide any kind of oversight over the people who live there, and if all they can do is say, hey be quiet and they can't say: look you be quiet, or.,.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: right they have there's no teeth to what the onsite manager can do. John and sarah.

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Pb, john gerstle:, I mean just in response to that. The the lease can be between the owner and the tenant can be written, however,, the the owner and tenant want to.

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Pb,, john gerstle:, I don't think we should be getting into that. The point of this is the whole,, the owner and manager responsible and how he manages his tenants business business. We just don't want any excuse or noise or any finger pointing you know where the owner says oh,. It says kind of did this condition.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the owner, has to admit that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, but that's not how it works. If there's a noise violation, we don't we don't care about the tenant, we're going to send an enforcement letter to the owner.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: period- this doesn't give us the right to go after tenants. This just is providing sample language,, essentially for the owner. That says: here's what we want to see in your lease and I'll. Tell you what, if I, if, if we vote to strike this paragraph, about.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. You know the applicants for the.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: lease language. If I'm the owner, I'm going to put that language right back into the lease anyway.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, which is I don't want to be the one who's.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: david. pb, david ensign:. I just want to point out,. Am I muted now I'm not.

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Pb, david ensign:, no you're., pb, david ensign:, the one,. I just want to point out that it does say you know after it does put the responsibility on tenants. For.

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Pb, david ensign: for their noise generated, it does say the applicant shall enforce the quiet, hours requirements and then.

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Pb,, david ensign:, it goes on to describe more of the applicants responsibility,. So this is this paragraph is in quiet.

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Pb, david ensign:, in terms of the applicants responsibilities,, I don't think it just starts out by talking about tenants- must- must conform to the to these requirements. So I'm not quite as sure that that this gives some sort of a way that the the applicant owner can somehow not answer to all these violations.

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Pb, john gerstle:, but this language does give each applicant each candidate three chances three bites at the noise apple.

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Pb, john gerstle:, so totally that that's a lot more than three for the whole building.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:: where do you see that john.

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Pb, john gerstle:, in the in the middle of that paragraph.

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Pb sarah silver: third, violation. pb, john gerstle:, the tenant for a third violation.

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Pb, john gerstle:, the applicant to create the right under least to charge the tenant and or a bit for a third violation,. So you can imagine what that implies,? If you have you know.

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Pb, john gerstle: 18 tenants, yeah.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, but a violation, would already occurred with the first noise violation,. A violation of the approval would occur with just one. My nation.

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Pb,, john gerstle:, I guess my objective is just to avoid fingerpointing when, when this actually comes to to be an issue.

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Pb sarah silver: can I just ask a.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: question for a while.

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Pb sarah silver: yeah, so it's my understanding that the that five dash nine dash three.

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Pb sarah silver: now,, as of like five years ago,, both the landlord and the tenant, are are.

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Pb sarah silver: could face fines for noise violations. Is that correct.

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Pb, sarah silver:, that it was something passed by city council and when an order to.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, fight enjoyment of home, yeah yes.

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Pb sarah silver: right! So in some! So although it's not stated here in in the code,, if you violate the quiet,, the noise regulations.

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Pb sarah silver:, both the landlord and the tenant, are liable for any fine,. I have no idea whether the city ever actually finds anyone,, but it certainly has served.

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Pb sarah silver: that that dual responsibility,, which is in the code, has served a good, has, has served to make landlords a lot more concerned about who they rent to and a lot more responsive when there are repeated noise violations. So I'm not sure that.

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Pb sarah silver: that.

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pb, sarah silver:. Somehow this the this language here would would negate.

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Pb sarah silver:, what is already sort of what is already on the in the books and on the ground in terms of liability and responsibility.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah, I'm with you, sarah, and I just don't. I just don't see.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any reason to take out anything in this paragraph, except the first.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the first.

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pb harmon zuckerman: sentence is only sentence that I think isn't doing any work. I think every sentence after tenants, who are present.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: are responsible for the noise generated within their dwelling unit. Every subsequent sentence does important work and helps the landlord and forth quiet in the building and.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I can't make the point any more strongly,. This idea is such a red herring, that there are 48 violations that can happen before that anybody's in trouble,. The first file ation.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: the first noise violation that occurs everything in the paragraph, right after the little letter be about quiet hours comes into play, and the city can enforce the terms of this use. Review.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so you know I'd be comfortable. Taking that sort of general sense, tenants, who are present, are responsible for the noise generated within their dwelling unit. Out.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, but if we read through each subsequent sentence in that second paragraph under be each one of those sense does senses does important work.

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Pb, david ensign: yeah, I thought I'd also be interested,. I think, taking that first sentence out might be a good idea,, just because.

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Pb, david ensign:, I would not want to imply that noise can only be generated within a dwelling unit,. They can be generated in common areas,. They can be generated out in the out in the yard.

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Pb, david ensign:, so I wouldn't want to imply that millie's nuisances would only happen within the dwelling unit, so that that's a little bit problematic for me. So maybe removing that sentence would help with that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and then the only other thing that that I would like to see is just.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I know it's kind of picking this but.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: the quiet hours it's hard to do it it's hard to to enforce quiet hours, the way I'd like to see them enforced with a from you know, sunday through thursday and friday and saturday,, because what I'd really like to see is that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: friday, night and saturday night, quiet hour, started 11.

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Pb harmon, zuckerman: and all other nights. They start at 10 because friday and saturday, or the weekend night.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. But I think if you're in college, wednesday,, thursday, friday and saturday, or the weekend nights, but for the rest of us friday and saturday, or the weekend nights and then morning quiet hours and at seven on the weekdays monday through friday,. But eight on the weekend. Saturday and sunday..

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so you you've got to stay quiet, a little later on the weekend,, because people like to sleep in.

G

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Pb sarah silver:, I like that, and I'm just I'm thinking back to what I said before about the um the regulatory framework that exists right now in five dash nine dash three hello,: do we need to make it.

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Pb sarah silver:, since we're not using the the time frame. That's in five dash nine dash three for quiet hours,. Do we have to make it explicit that the penalties associated with the existing.

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Pb sarah silver: code would apply here.

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Pb sarah silver:, since we're using slightly different hours.

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Pb sarah silver:, or is that an assumed.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:- this would be this- would be enforced under violation of the approval versus violation of none 5593.

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Pb sarah silver:, so maybe we need to add.

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Pb sarah silver:- something here that says and but the penalties, but would apply our- would follow the penalties associated with five dash nine dash three.

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Pb, sarah silver:: what do you guys? Think. hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, know that. hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, no, no, in general,, it's in general. It's the same penalties that apply anyways. We have a similar penalty, schedule.

P

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I think that the. pb harmon zuckerman: typical way to explain it is probably hello,. If I can jump in, I think the simple way to explain it- and you can correct me if I'm wrong- is that five dash dash three applies in its entirety,, except for the hours which we're actually making more strict under the use review. Condition.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, well right., hella pannewig assistant city attorney:. I think it's just a different way. To.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, it's a different violation. There can still be a violation of the code, that's.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: and then there is a violation of the terms of the approval which have certain quiet, hours.,.

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Pb sarah silver: so,, so we don't need to add extra language, is what you're saying.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, I don't think that's necessary. Okay, awesome.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so um.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any other thoughts.

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Pb, sarah silver:, just that we are changing that last sentence from five business days to two yeah.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yep, okay, oh my so I'm going to put it I'm going to have a sample on night. Quiet hours are beginning at.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: 10 o'clock, weekdays.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: sundays, sunday, sorry sunday through thursday.,.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and 11 o'clock, saturday, friday and saturday and morning quiet hours, end.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: at., pb, harmon, zuckerman:, seven on weekdays and eight on weekends.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and pull for that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay got a majority.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and then I would.

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pb harmon zuckerman:, suggest that we just delete the sense that reads: tenants, who are present, are responsible for the noise generated within their dwelling unit and leave the rest of the paragraph, the same, except to change it to two business days. At the end, simple on that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: peter me lisa david for those tears yeah. Okay, all right,. Can we move on, or do we need more comments or changes on the quiet, hours.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, alright, so we're going to move to occupancy see.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: david.

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Pb, david ensign: I'll just go ahead. And.

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pb, david ensign: propose that,, at least in my mind. It would be.

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Pb, david ensign:, better for us just to since this, since this is the 48, was assuming 48 students that that we not get wrapped around the axle on trying to redefine unrelated adults and just use the current city's definition. Of.

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Pb, david ensign:, three three unrelated.

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Pb, david ensign: per unit 48 unrelated total and then, yes,. If a family moved in with with two parents and two kids, I don't think vic that runs afoul of the way we currently account for people in buildings,, and so I just I think, that's probably safe.

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Pb, david ensign:, rather than trying to change the definition from unrelated people, so that would be my elbow.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: gun.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah, I just wonder,, does that mean that.

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Pb, john gerstle:, in each unit, you could have three couples: living.

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Pb,, john gerstle:, you know one one couple of each bedroom as long as they're married or related,, whatever the proper.

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Pb, john gerstle: description is so that could lead to quite a bit more than 48 people or 48 adults, even not worrying about kids.

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Pb, david ensign: and then and that's true in.

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pb,, david ensign: hell and in today's three bedroom apartments that are under similar restrictions. Three couples could move in is that correct three married couples.

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Pb, david ensign:, it's my understanding.

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Pb sarah silver: know under I think under well hello, it's the lawyer,, but I think under our various elements of the code,, you can have a family of any size and any relations, plus two unrelated.

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Pb, david ensign:, that sounds right: yeah.

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pb, sarah silver:, so you couldn't really have three families living in one apartment: building, one apartment.

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Pb, david ensign: that would kick in. pb sarah silver:, as because that's the way.

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Pb, david ensign:, yeah. pb, sarah silver: okay,, I think that's right and a family is defined. There's multiple definitions of family and it's all meant to make sure that no one is discriminated against.

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Pb sarah silver: is that right, hello., pb, harmon zuckerman:! That's how you do hello good job, sarah.

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Pb sarah silver: thank you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: alright,, so my comment is that I heard what sarah said: about.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: by putting the hard tap of 48, we might actually be dis, incentivizing the landlord for renting to families, so I'm comfortable with the condition as it stands me to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, move on to onsite management.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: comments., pb, harmon zuckerman:, sarah so.

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Pb sarah silver:, I have a comment,, so I would be curious to hear from the applicant. If we can ask this question a a. If we do require onsite management, would it be someone in an office 24 there'd, be someone in an office 24 seven or would it be a resident manager like a like a superintendent, a super.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: johnson.

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Jim johnson: thank you,. I was actually trying to decide if my client was actually going to answer that that one directly,, my understanding is that if they had someone living on the property,, it would be a.

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Jim johnson:, someone living in a unit right and the issue with, that is, they would not.

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Jim johnson: be able to find someone who is a professional manager for that for that slot,, and so it would likely fall to somebody who was more in appear situation. That's the concern and.

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Jim johnson:, my client feels pretty strongly that they believe that the the professional management that is a five minute walk away from the property is the best solution. They're on call and available 24 hours a day, seven days, a week.

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Pb sarah silver:, but can you could you arrange, set up an office, so that there was someone in an office, but not a resident,, and I personally have a problem. With.

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Pb sarah silver:- this is not a dorm, and so a resident advisor is not what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking, about.

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Pb sarah silver: an adult, maybe an adult, with a family. If it's someone who's a super super for the building,, but it's not a super. Do you have a kid you? Can you carve out an office space where there could be a person on site, 24, seven.

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Pb sarah silver:, who is responsible.

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Pb sarah silver: and doesn't live there,, so I think we're trying to think about different, like different options.

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Jim johnson:, so you're not you're, not if you're saying, does it so you're saying,, though, doesn't live there you're saying just an office with someone who offices there and then otherwise available when they're, not there. 24 seven is that what you're saying.

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Pb, sarah silver:, that's what I'm asking is that an option. jim johnson: yeah. I that I will have to ask my client to answer that. I'm not familiar with exactly the layout of the project in terms of other there's space for office,. So let me chime in.

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Esa architects, joe coughlin applicant:, there's really not space on the property to put an office and, if we're to try to staff at 24 hours a day that to hire.

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Esa architects, joe coughlin applicant: somebody to literally sit in that office 24 hours a day at four different people a week to staff at 24 hours, a day, as opposed to offices,. We already have set up to be able to manage all of the properties appropriately.

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Pb sarah silver: okay,, thank you for that. Input.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I think, would peter had her hand up earlier to go. Next.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: sorry,, I muted and no,. I think I think my my previous question was asked by somebody else.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any follow up. Sarah or other thoughts.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: in peters hand go up the mid john.

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Pb, peter vitale:. I know we can't turn the clock back,, but I did want to ask.

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Pb, peter vitale:, or confirm the situation at martha house before was.

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Pb, peter vitale:, an onsite manager who resided there correct.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:- I don't know I'm just nodding actually, but I.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: can ask the applicant.

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Pb, peter vitale:, anyone can answer.

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Pb, david ensign: if. pb,, david ensign:. No one else is going to speak on that. I I guess the the original you were looking at a use, expansion, question: here, did the original use require by the city and onsite manager would be the question that I would ask,, because that would lend.

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Pb, david ensign:, some and I, and I,, and I just can't think I've read through the code on on rooming houses and things, but I can't report her. Is this a boarding house? I can't remember, but but I can't I don't know if that requires an onsite manager.

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Cob sloane walbert:. There was nothing in our records that required one and there's nothing in the definition of a boarding house that would require one either.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay, charles shook his head and nodded.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: in a way, that that lets me know that he agreed with both with things you just said.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: peter. Do you want to keep going.

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pb, harmon zuckerman:, okay, sure.

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Pb sarah silver:, but this is not defined as a boarding house,, so I mean it's a,. This is clearly a multi family, dwelling.

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Pb, sarah silver:, it is not a boarding house, um so I just you know,. This is the same problem we had back in january,, which was you really can't we're, comparing we're being asked to compare apples to oranges during this process, and in some ways, what it was before, is almost.

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Pb sarah silver: on.

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pb, sarah silver:. You can't apply it to the conversation that we, the approval process that we're going through now.

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Pb, sarah silver:: it's really a question. Of.

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Pb sarah silver:, how best to ensure good management.

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Pb sarah silver: of a building that is.

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Pb sarah silver:, a hat, will have some could have some impact on the.

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Pb sarah silver: character of a neighborhood.

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pb, sarah silver: and,, and how do you? How do you best and that's what all these conditions are about,? So I think this question is.

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Pb sarah silver:, it doesn't is an onsite manager, a requirement to for that kind of effective management of a changed use in an in a particular neighborhood.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: gun.

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Pb, john gerstle: I,. I believe that is reasonable to require an onsite manager, here.

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Pb, john gerstle: and the exactly what sort of a manager that might be. I don't know if it's just somebody who gets a break on their rent or dealing with with the sorts of issues that could come. Up.

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Pb, john gerstle:, and can respond right away, to, for example, complaints from neighbors about noise or something like that, but I,. I believe that it in a in a project of this size,. It is reasonable to have on site management.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: people.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: yes,, I totally agree,. I think that this is the only way that I would feel comfortable with this. It really does need to have an onsite person, and it is in a does mean 24 seven.

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Pb, lisa smith:, I feel like because.

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pb,, lisa smith:, we're not constraining it or, as far as I can tell from from the provisions put forward by staff.

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Pb, lisa smith: we're not constraining this towards certain older people or trying to market to specific folks like we had talked about last time.

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Pb, lisa smith:, but that makes having an onsite manager a really good idea,, because it appears that it's still very much could be marketed toward and would be appealing to undergraduates.

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Pb, lisa smith: and nothing against them,, but having someone on site, who knows exactly where that noise just came from.

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Pb, lisa smith: is incredibly useful versus someone being called from five minutes away to head over and we don't know what they're talking about. um You know so.

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Pb, lisa smith:- I don't really have a. I don't, I'm not quite sure I think it's very normal to have an onsite property manager who gets a break on wrench. That's that's a very typical arrangement for a wide variety of.

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Pb, lisa smith: you know, buildings and apartment buildings, and so on, so and I don't quite understand the concern over the pier. I mean you structure their jobs, such that, if they're not doing their job and they no longer have a job.

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Pb, lisa smith: in this case, perhaps no longer have largely subsidized rent, so yeah, I'm in favor of having someone on site. If it's likely to certain that we're going to have a lot of undergrads.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so let's take it some poll is,. Is there a support for condition d on site management as written.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so far, we got everybody, but david.

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Pb, david ensign: yeah. pb,, david ensign:. I have one question: I'd be interested in.

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Pb, david ensign:, if the onsite manager.

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pb, david ensign:, needed to take a vacation.

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Pb, david ensign: and wasn't there for a period of time,, do you know,? We want to be reasonable to have some sort of.

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Pb, david ensign:, some sort is it reasonable to to to not expect them to ever be able to take a day off or something? You know I.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: let. pb harmon zuckerman: me,. Can I interrupt you,. This is not requiring anything of an individual. This says that the applicant has to ensure that the on site managers, enforcer requirements and that one onsite manager is present on the property each day and each night.

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Pb, david ensign:, so they could. pb harmon zuckerman:. They could they figure out how to meet that condition. Okay.

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Pb, david ensign: yeah, I guess I.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: mean I.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: guess,. I thought about things like you know, there's nothing that says that the onsite manager has to be a resident. There's nothing that says: 24. Seven but.

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In the end,, I think the.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: main.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: can't be spuds mackenzie, but the two main.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: things that are required that the onsite manager enforce the agreement and that they're there, day and night.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, that seems to me to be really tied back to the purpose of user view, which is mitigating conditions that could have deleterious impact on the community,. So you know I'm I'm really comfortable with the way this is written.

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Pb, david ensign:, by., pb, harmon, zuckerman: management, he.

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Pb, david ensign: go ahead. I'll just say that I just wanted to make sure that we wouldn't be in a position. Where.

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Pb,, david ensign:, if the person happened to be a way that the complaints would escalate to like a use.

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Pb, david ensign: as having to consider removing the use, because of the person just happened not to be home or something,. But it sounds like what you're saying makes sense that this is a.

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Pb, david ensign: general enough that it wouldn't do that,. So thank you,. I just wanted to say why I was a little concerned about that. Yeah.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: great okay,. He complaint management.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: questions thoughts.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: everybody I'm going to just take a poll. Now is everybody comfortable with the complaint management condition, he the way it's written.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay. pb harmon zuckerman: move on to.

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pb. Sarah silver: check with the change from five days to two.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yep yep yep okay,. I think we captured that already, but good good catch.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, nice catch., pb, harmon zuckerman:. The maintenance section of the good neighbor statement of operations should be modified.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: around the complete vacation in august and safety inspection, so forth.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. Are we comfortable with that as written or do we have any comments? Sarah.

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Pb sarah silver:, I just actually have something, have a question, and maybe this is a question at two staff, which is um.

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Pb sarah silver: do safety and I'm not aware of landlords, doing safety inspections regularly. That doesn't mean they. Don't I just it's not something I was aware happens on an annual basis.

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Pb sarah silver: so first does it normally happen on an annual basis.

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Cob sloane walbert:. um Well, I think it's two separate things so in terms of the rental license, I don't believe it's annual,, but they are required to do a regular baseline inspection. I believe it's called.

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Cob sloane walbert: this provision in the code, I think, is just general maintenance. It's not a safety inspection per se, okay.

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Pb sarah silver: so,, because the reason I asked is presumably over time, I mean I not if not every.,.

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Pb sarah silver: renter is a students,. There may come a time when people end up renting and in december or in you know, may and you'd want their.

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Pb sarah silver: their fat, the flexibility to exist, so that.

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Pb sarah silver: those those rental schedules could can change depending on people moving in and moving out, and so I'm wondering if maybe we could um.

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Pb sarah silver: first of all,, I want to thank sloan for identifying this particular issue it completely. I overlooked it, but to instead say.

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Pb sarah silver:, the statement shall be modified to state that.

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Pb sarah silver: safety or basic maintenance inspection, shellac her.

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Pb sarah silver: once a year in every unit and that way it's not.

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Pb sarah silver: specific to the cop, the college calendar, but instead.

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Pb sarah silver: creates an opportunity, creates the space for people who might want to live there for three or four or five or 10 years to do so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: I'll, entertain jim johnson.

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Jim johnson: thank you,. I just wanted to point out,. I understand from my client that they actually do safety inspections monthly when they change out the filters and the htc units,, so that happens 12 times a year, so condition for one time, a year with obviously not be problematic.

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Pb sarah silver: well hey that raises so so what what other people think about this idea of at least freeing it up from the.

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Pb sarah silver: I mean,, maybe august, is the right time to do. It,, but.

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Pb sarah silver:, I just don't- want it. To. pb sarah silver: end up pushing us only towards this. This college calendar.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, I thought john can go first and then david.

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Yeah. pb, john gerstle:. I have the same concerns with sarah, but I now and in looking at this, I with that august, the sentence removed about the august vacation. I think that.

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Pb, john gerstle:, the concern is, is diminished than that. I'm not so worried about it,, but we can talk about the the college student focus, also in the next. In section five and the marketing.

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Pb,, john gerstle:, you know that's the real concern that I perceived that you have and it's what I have also.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, david. pb, david ensign: yeah john, said pretty much what I was going to say, which was that if we do just recommend same yearly instead of the month of august,, then that opens us up in number five to talk about whether or not we can also encourage.

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Pb, david ensign: leases that don't line up with the school year, so that would be something we can talk about the next one,, but I would support changing that to yearly instead of month of august.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so sarah would would you accept a statement.

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Pb harmon, zuckerman: or sorry,, would you accept the sentence that read statement she'll be modified to state that safety inspection with shell occur at least annually, instead of each august.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay. pb harmon zuckerman: thumbs on that.

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okay., pb, harmon zuckerman:, so each august replaced with at least annually.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you guys can start talking about five.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and who wants to speak to marketing john.

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Pb, john gerstle:, I think that five, it's clear, the objective of five and- and I agree with it- I'm just go, and we talked about this a little bit earlier this evening. I'm just wondering if we can be more.

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Pb, john gerstle: proactive in terms of encouraging or requiring.

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Pb, john gerstle: marketing oriented towards towards a families and long term professional president.,.

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Pb, john gerstle:, I should take our professional just long term residences, probably a better way for you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I'm happy a john I'd, be happy to support,, adding that to that list of graduate students, families, faculty the university, long term residents and other tenants interested in,. You know just adding that, and you know long term tenants.

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Pb, john gerstle: and and I'm also satisfied with having the city manager of the plan, pretty hard to specify it.

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Pb, john gerstle: right here, tonight.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so any other thoughts.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: were to add the term long term tenants after the word university.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: or maybe long term residents, comment and other tenants interested in living in a.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: few, like long term residents, better done., pb, harmon zuckerman:, so as long term residents.

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Pb, john gerstle:, more general and the program.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: that long term residents after university.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. If, if we were to add.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. All of these. If we were to make all the changes that we just went, through.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: can I get a thumb poll of.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, who would be willing to vote for approval,. So we know whether we should even go for that or not.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, we got it, we got a majority. Is there anybody wants to propose any final changes before we put together. What's going to be a very long, motion.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: right then hello, have you finished the language for.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the disclosure of vehicle ownership for a two.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: yeah. I would suggest that you include in your motion to revise for a woman, to.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, to require each tenant to disclose in their parking agreement the motor vehicle license plate, make model and type of each vehicle they own or us..

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: and that,, if a parking spaces assigned the agreement, shall record the motor vehicle plate, make model and type of the vehicle, which a parking spaces assigned.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay, great. Alright, I'm going to try to make motion here guys, I'm so in for a move that we approve well,. Let me see what the motion languages.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I moved to approve use, review application number.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: dash triple zero 22.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: adopting the staff member and his findings of fact,, including the attached analysis of review criteria and subject to the recommended conditions of approval found in the staff memorandum for the boards february. 18 2021 meeting with the following changes to for a one.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, no more than 12.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: should replace no more than eight motor vehicles.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: for for a to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: the sentence that says, if a parking space is assigned, needs to begin with.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: each tenant shall disclose.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: hello, each henschel this you can read that part.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: alright require each tenant to disclose in their parking agreement. The motor vehicle license plate, make model and type.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: of each vehicle they own or use,, and that if a parking spaces is signed, the agreement, sharp record the motor vehicle plate make model and type of the vehicle for which parking spaces assigned..

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Pb, john gerstle: and pb harmon zuckerman: that would be the.

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Pb, john gerstle: quiet. pb, harmon zuckerman:. I have a concern. I'm gonna.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I'm in the middle of megan emotion.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so the second sentence would be replaced in for a two with what hello, just stated, for a seven would be changed to within two business. Days.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: moving on to be quiet hours, a night, quiet, hours.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: shall begin at 10pm.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: sunday through thursday and 11pm on friday and saturday morning, quiet hours, she'll, end.,.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: at 7am on week days and 8am on weekends.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, and then we are deleting the sentence. Tenants, who are present, are responsible for the noise generated within their dwelling. Unit.

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Pb harmon, zuckerman: c and d: cnd are the same.

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Pb, david ensign: there's a five business day reference at the end of the changes to to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, all right, and okay,, and at the end of the last sentence, in.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: the.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: be tough lesson to be changed: five business days to two business days,, moving on e complaint management, changing five business days to two business days.

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Pb harmon, zuckerman: and under.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: f.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: sorry., pb, harmon, zuckerman:, yes,, thunder f, the term each august she'll be replaced with at least annually, the term at least annually,, and then in five..

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Pb harmon zuckerman: before the only appearance of the term or sorry after the comma. After the only appearance of the term university, add long term residents.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: comma.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and those are the changes that planning board or that I'm recommending this this motion, can I get a second and then we'll have discussions with emotion.

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Pb, david ensign:, I'll second.

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And I. pb harmon zuckerman: think.

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Pb, david ensign:, I have a minor friendlies that I'll add at some point,, but once we get into discussion, okay.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. Well, let's get john's comment first and then you're friendly.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah, my concern was with with helpless language on the on the information about autos. It sounded if I understood correctly that it it occurs only in connection with providing a parking space.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: that know the way that she so it said each tenant shuttle sign a parking agreement. Each template.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so the parking agreement shall include a disclosure,, for she actually is capturing every tenant.

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Pb,, john gerstle:, okay, that's fine,! I just want to be sure that every book, whether it's in my lease or something else in the information is there. Okay, okay.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: good job, hello, david, your friendly.

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Pb, david ensign:, just a very minor wording.

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Pb, david ensign: in the., pb, david ensign:, the very basic first sentence of the motion, subject to the recommended conditions and possible additional conditions of approval.

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Pb, david ensign:, because those are two different sections below, and I just want to make it clear that we're,, including the recommended conditions and possible additional conditions of approval, with the following changes that you just said..

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Pb harmon zuckerman: no,, I said as modified by the following, and then I went through all the modifications.

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Pb, david ensign: right,, but I just want to make sure that we are referring to the possible additional conditions,, so it doesn't seem like we're only referring to the prior recommended conditions,, which is what the wording currently kind of implies. It just says: recommended conditions right, now.

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Pb, john gerstle: well. pb, harmon zuckerman: the recommended conditions of approval, or in this stephen random, the oh, yes, that's great I.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: thought of that too. pb harmon, zuckerman: no,. I thought that too, and I forgot, I totally forgot about that,, so I would take the friendly if you phrase it as with the removal of the language possible additional conditions of approval above number four.

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Pb, david ensign:, there we go yeah.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: possible.

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Pb, david ensign: yeah, we can just remove yeah with that back to be. The other thing is just remove the language of possible additional conditions of approval, yeah.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,. Thank you any other thoughts about the about the.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: motion on the table, john.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah. I just like to say that I'm going to support this,, but uh for me, I think it would have been even better if the applicant had come with a boarding house proposal where there was a common kitchen and.

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Pb,, john gerstle:, you know plenty of bedrooms and something in principle, similar to the fraternities and martha house that existed there before,. But I recognize that.

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Pb, john gerstle:: this is not likely to gain support from the majority on planning board, and therefore I will support this ocean.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: yeah, similar situation as john. I really thought it will have been much better. Have they gone back and come back with that proposal, where we didn't have the contort so much to come up with something that hopefully will work and.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, I just hope in the future,. We have more courage to just say no to something in send people back to the drawing board to come up with better proposals. But.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, I will work with us, too,, but I really think we could have done better and probably served give the.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: applicant a better chance to class on them. They're like more. I hope there will be okay, with all the proposed changes. We didn't ask them after all this last changes,, so I don't know how they're feeling about all this,, but nonetheless I will be also boring. Boring, thank you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any other thoughts.

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pb harmon zuckerman: discussion to the motion.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay, then,, given the length of the motion, I'm not going to restate it as the motion of planning, board.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, unless, for some reason, staff feels that it needs to be clarified.

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Pb harmon, zuckerman: or alright,, then the motion as proposed is motion of the board and I'll take a roll call. Vote, david and time.

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I'm. pb harmon zuckerman: john crystal.

G

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Pb harmon zuckerman: peter vitaly.

G

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Pb, peter vitale:, lisa smith.

A

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Pb harmon zuckerman: up to mentor.

A

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, sarah silver.

A

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and although I saw the the.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: proposal passes seven to nothing,. Congratulations to the applicant.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and I will suggest that we take a break. It's 838, we'll come back at 845.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: welcome back.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: alright,, so we are recording and meetings back in order here back in session, and we are having our one public hearing item for the night.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:: it's not a easy lift. It's a site news review and the agenda. Title is public hearing and planning board consideration of a site and use review. Application.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: l, you are.

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pb harmon zuckerman: dash triple zero 38 three develop the property located at 2727 29th street, with a proposed hundred percent on site permanently, affordable housing development consisting of 100 attached dwelling units.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, with onsite leasing, office and small community space and associated site improvements, use review. Approval is necessary for attached dwelling units located along the ground floor facing the street.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: in the business main street for bms zone district, and before I turn it over to staff, I'm going to call for.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: disclosures from members of the planning board.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so I think I'll just go in order on my screen. Here, david.

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Pb, david ensign: well,, I mean I've been to rally sport and I walked past the property,, but that nothing to disclose the night, can be a fairly neutral.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, john gristle.,.

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Pb, john gerstle:, I've walked around the area and become familiar with it,, but nothing beyond that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: peter vitaly.

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Pb, peter vitale: same I did have to stop there sunday morning or saturday to pick up goggles and my kids left at the pool and stephen said,. The place was closed and so.

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Pb, peter vitale:, I was either listening in order to still open, and everyone else,. I live in the town that coburn built, so here coburn project.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, well, pizza.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya:, nothing close.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and then lisa.

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Pb, lisa smith: earlier, with the site and I've been inside, but nothing that would stop me from being fair and impartial.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, sarah, nothing to disclose.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, I'm going to disclose that I am working on a project and another county.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and I represent the lawyer, who represents the applicant and coburn, has been the architect representing the applicant.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I don't have any kind of relationship contractual or otherwise,, with cobra and other than we both are advising the same applicant on a different project than a different county..

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. If you want to ask me: the. pb, harmon, zuckerman:, question,, though.,.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney:, can you be fair and impartial and make your decision solely based on the evidence presented here? Today.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney: yes, thank you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, then I'm going to turn it over to charles pharaoh or development review manager to introduce this project.

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Charles ferro:, great thanks very much chair, so andrew collins is going to be presenting staffs analysis tonight and just wanted to note that.

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Charles ferro:, you typically see andrew presenting information related to code amendments. He serves on our code, amendment team.

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Charles ferro:, along with carl gaylor, so he's here tonight to help fill some of the gaps from the code related staffing reductions that we've experienced so andrew is going to get his site and use review merit badge tonight. So I'll turn it over to him to take you through steps. Analysis.

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Cob, andrew collins: welcome pb harmon zuckerman: planning, andrew. cob, andrew collins: yeah great to be here I'm going to share my screen here. Real quick.

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Cob, andrew collins:, that's all visible to everyone.

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Cob,, andrew collins:, so the project on the agenda tonight is his site. Nice review for 2727, 29 street.

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Cob, andrew collins:, as previously introduced this is the boulder housing partners project that is 100% and affordable located at the corner of bluff, street and 29th street.

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Cob, andrew collins:, just to recap of where we are so. This received concept plan review from the planning board in june of last year.

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Cob, andrew collins:, it's now back for its site review this project. Does those over 50,000 square feet and floor area.

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Cob, andrew collins:, which triggers a site review. In addition, it's also proposing a height modification which requires the planning board, review and consideration.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, as part of the project site review process,, they are proposing some modifications to the standards and, most notably to the front yard setback standards,. The third for setback, standards.

X

Cob, andrew collins: and, in addition, the individual principle buildings floor area, each one is over 15,000 square feet, there's three different buildings. That is also a modification as well.

X

Cob, andrew collins: they're, requesting a height modification up to 42.8 feet were 38, is allowed by rights and then in 32% parking, reduction.

X

Cob, andrew collins: at the project does require a use review for the attached ground floor, residential uses that are along the street from inches and this semi district.

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Cob,, andrew collins:, this is one of our limited uses attached residential, so it's allowed by right if it's on upper levels, or if it's not located on the street frontage. Otherwise it requires the use review,, which is why it's here, tonight.

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Cob,, andrew collins:, what notice was sent to property owners within 600 feet,, as well as published in the newspaper, the sign posting requirements at the time of application that was waived to do to the coven 19 pandemic.

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Cob,, andrew collins:, the site is shown here in green,. This is the existing and still operating rally. Fitness center.

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Cob, andrew collins:, and that was a omission from the previous staff reports,, but you can see here it's located at the north east. Sorry northwest corner of bluff and 29 streets.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, valmont road is to the north and then 28 streets to the west,. This is a primary and retail commercial corridor.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, walgreens and some other uses are located along 28 street further back tucked in it becomes more mix of multi family residential uses,, as well as some older strip, commercial uses.

X

Cob, andrew collins: and you can see, also, that the boulder sorry, the goose creek path, runs along the south of the property and connects in just off the screen to the boulder junction depot.

X

Cob,, andrew collins:, so this site itself does has less visibility. Terms of retail visibility, then compared to properties fronting along 28th or belmont..

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Cob, andrew collins:, he wasn't valid comp plan, land use, designation is general business and the prescribed set uses should consist of a mix of business uses,, but also that housing compatible. The surrounding business areas can be encouraged and may be required.

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Cob, andrew collins: zoning is bms business main street.

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Cob, andrew collins: main street, which which serves to have a mix of uses, primarily retail and other commercial uses,, but does allow for other complimentary uses. Also.

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Cob,, andrew collins:, the image on your right side of the screen is the existing rally. Fitness center. You can see the building pushed back off the street with surface parking towards the corner.

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Cob, andrew collins: is where the two adjacent properties, to the north of the top of your screen and then to the west at the bottom of your screen..

X

Cob, andrew collins:, that's more of a neighboring properties,. You can kind of get a sense for the existing older kind of strip commercial development that might be nearby.

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Cob, andrew collins:, as well as some of the newer, a multi family residential unit, multi family, residential projects,, so the project level three is the thistle, affordable, housing, development and then at the bottom right. That's kind of catty corner to this project site is also some existing condo. Development.-.

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Cob, andrew collins: edition on the screen,, so the green star is a site on bluff and 29th. The site is in close, close proximity to bus stops along both belmont and 28 street,, as well as again within a quarter mile walk down the goose creek path to the junction depot.

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Cob, andrew collins:, so the proposed plan calls for 100 attached residential units,. They will all be permanently affordable and managed by the older housing partners.

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Cob, andrew collins: and mix studios, one bedrooms and two bedroom units will be provided, again,. You can see, on the right hand, side of the screen,. There are three distinct buildings,. Each one will be three stories: tall.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, up to 42.8 feet in height they're, proposing a two parking spaces as part of their parking reduction 200 by parking spaces.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, as well as providing right away and easement space for sidewalk improvements, both along bluff and 29th and also.

X

Cob, andrew collins: for the future alley along the western side of their property they're, providing the right away for that once other properties,. We develop jason to that same future. Alley.

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Cob, andrew collins: also,, we wanted to note that the project is is providing over double the amount of required open space, as measured for a code.

X

Cob, andrew collins: image on the right is kind of shows some of the shows a site plan of the proposal,. The buildings built up to the street.

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Cob, andrew collins: kind of a more urban form,, including the corner, there's a large central, open space, courtyard being provided with a pass through at the ground level, down to the corner.

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Cob,, andrew collins:, the project is de emphasizing the parking by doing the parking reduction and then utilizing that extra space for additional open space for a enlarged courtyard, the image,, the bottom left kind of shows what some of those seating areas will look. Like.

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Cob, andrew collins: is are the architectural elevations, the upper one is a long bluff streets and then the bottom one is long 29 streets, the materials are all the same,. These renderings just came out a little bit different to the different buildings,, but the building materials consists of brick would.

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Cob, andrew collins: perforated metal panel,, as well as some cement board.

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Cob, andrew collins:- and these are some new character. Imagery perspectives actually showed the architecture, a little bit better again,. You have the strong.

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Cob, andrew collins: corner feature anchored at the corner, with the past ruins the large courtyard the ground floor units all have a walk up, patios accessible from the sidewalk, and then each of the upper four units also have balconies as well.

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Cob,, andrew collins:, so the key issues for this project, or does the project meet the site review criteria of the code.

X

Cob, andrew collins: secondly, does it meet the proposed parking reduction, doesn't meet the that section of the code as well, and then thirdly, does the proposed ground floor residential use is that consistent is reviewed, criteria.

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Cob,, andrew collins:, so the proposal is consistent with many of the comp plans, goals and policies,, including for now,. The compact development pattern.

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Cob, andrew collins:, enhanced design for all projects,, as well as policy 6.18, neighborhood streets and alleys. Again, this project provides the right away and he's my areas for the future alley on the western property. Well, in addition, it's consistent with many of the illusionary housing goals and as well.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, in terms of the projects relationship to the surrounding area,, a staff did find that the project is compatible with the existing mix of multifamily developments in commercial uses in the neighborhood.

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Cob, andrew collins:, it's also providing new sidewalk improvements to connect to the registry and bike systems. And, again,, as well as a future alley right of way.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, at the building design again is more urban and character built up to the street with walk up ground for units,. They are durable materials and the overall design is compatible to this evolving area of town..

X

Cob, andrew collins:, the open space is providing just over 27 square feet of open space. We're only 11,500 is required and consists again in the large courtyard, with seating areas, as well as integrated stormwater facilities.

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Cob, andrew collins: and then, as part of the site review, this project is requesting a height modification again up to 42.8 feet, for all the buildings,, based upon the provision shown on the screen section nine to 14 before which allows for additional height requests, for.

X

Cob, andrew collins: projects, where the building's floor area dedicated to affordable residential is at least 40%, and this case virtually 100% of the floor area, will be dedicated to affordable housing.

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Cob, andrew collins:, the second key issue is that the parking reduction doesn't meet the parking reduction criteria again, they're proposing a 32% reduction by providing a two spaces, where 121 will be required.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, the site is located in again close proximity to a variety of alternative transit modes,, including bus stops and again the boulder junction depot, as well as a bike network along goose, creek path.

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Cob, andrew collins:, they are as probably a tpm strategy proposing to provide eco passes for residents, 200, total bike parking spaces and then there's also ample austria bike parking located and one both bluff and 29 streets.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, the third key issue, is whether the proposed ground floor attached residential use is consistent with the use review, criteria.

X

Cob, andrew collins: and staff found that the proposed ground floor residential units working for a compatible transition to the neighboring uses in the area,, including to the.

X

Cob, andrew collins: other nearby multi family residential developments. First, you have ground floor units,, as well as to the commercial an office uses nearby as well.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, the ground floor and units will have minimal adverse impacts, there's no nuisance issues or noxious and impacts,, including unlimited impacts to infrastructure.

X

Cob, andrew collins: and then, finally,, the proposed around 40 minutes will not change the predominant character of the area,, and this is kind of an evolving area is already mixed use or, I should say already multifamily development in the area, as well as office and commercial space..

X

Cob, andrew collins:, so in conclusions def does recommend the approval of the proposal and for playing board to adopt the following motion on the screen. We'd be happy to take any questions you may have.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, thanks andrew you can pull your screen down,, so we can see everybody,, please. Thank you. um Any questions for staff from the board, sarah's first.

K

Pb sarah silver:, so I actually have a andrew first of all great job awesome, and can you just give us a little insight into the purpose of third story? Setbacks.

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Cob, andrew collins: yeah, I think they're predominantly intended to allow some breathing room from the stream,. You know just trying to avoid. Maybe we have fallen hero, a tonio street with kind of the canyon effect. So in this case the setback standard is 20 feet from the villain.

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Cob, andrew collins:, so they are providing true 14 feet up to 19 feet with the various buildings kind of keeping in line. So it's not that it's pushed all know all the way up to the street. All right he's kind of pushed back to some extent.

X

Cob,, andrew collins:, I think it's more light in there and that sort of thing.

K

Pb sarah silver: okay, thank you.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: other questions, john and then david.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah, with respect to the to the fate of the ground floor in this project.

E

Pb, john gerstle:. To what extent have you been able to consider or analyze the need for.

E

Pb, john gerstle: commercial space in this neighborhood generally.

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Pb, john gerstle:, because we're what what's being proposed, here, results in in blessed less commercial space. Ultimately, in the neighborhood.

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Pb, john gerstle:, that might otherwise be indicated by the zoning.

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Cob, andrew collins: sure,, I mean we had not done an analysis of the you know: commercial catchment area,. We simply. I reviewed it against the use of your criteria, found that it met that that criteria.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, in our in our findings.

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Cob, andrew collins:, but I think the applicant can also speak to the reasons why they being not be able to include you know, retail or non residential uses as part of this project, a little bit more also.

E

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: david, it's next, no pizza.

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Pb, david ensign: yes, well, thank you, andrew it's fun to work on something with you, other than the details of every little cell in a use. Table.

L

Pb, david ensign: quite a bit of time on that over the last few years,. So I just wanted to.

L

Pb, david ensign: say it's great to see a sidewalk improvements in dive when we have things like this. With that multi use path across the corner,, I did read. Community cycles comment about the curb cuts and I.

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Pb, david ensign: couldn't really tell from the plans exactly where the curb cuts were on the corner for pedestrians,, but I also couldn't help it think. That.

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Pb, david ensign: kind of pairing this up with a project to not only do really natural curb cuts,, but also even like a zebra stripes going across to the to the multi use. Path.

L

Pb,, david ensign: and even even a traffic guys slow calming treatments on the corner on that curve could be really interesting,. So I just wondered if there's any opportunities to trigger some additional.

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Pb, david ensign: adjacent things that make it easier to get to and from the multi use. Path.

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Cob, andrew collins: yeah, we talked with our transportation staff about about that comment. So there's currently no proposed.

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Cob, andrew collins:, no pedestrian ramps to cross the street,, and so I think that was the committee cycles point was there could be. Some ramps propose to do a crosswalk across the street.

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Cob, andrew collins:, talking to our transportation, staff, the 29th and bluff street, is one continuous curved segments. There's no stop sign.

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Cob, andrew collins: concerned that putting curb ramps on one side would encourage people to walk out across the street, and cars may not see them.

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Cob, andrew collins: and so, and their minds,, you know they thought that wouldn't be appropriate at this time,, but as more properties were developed in the area.

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Cob, andrew collins:, it was probably something they could revisit to see about getting some kind of direct connection to that multi use path across the way.

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Cob, andrew collins:, but that at this time, they felt that there was not adequate visibility for pedestrians to cross without some kind of stop sign. That'd be more involved kind of outside the scope of this particular projects being proposed.

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Pb, david ensign: thank you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: pieces, turn.

Q

Pb, lupita d, montoya: yes,. My question has to do with the 32% reduction in parking and I like to just hear a little bit about the more of the recently, and also how does that compare with other hundred percent or you know, high percentage of affordable housing sites that we may have in terms of..

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya:, you know parking, my concern being that you know some of the people that we do have in our city. That will be needing this sort of housing do use vehicles for their jobs.

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Cob, andrew collins: at jen yeah, so so they are proposing some tv and strategies,, including the the eco pass system. Eco passes for the train for all their residences.

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Cob, andrew collins: that will be listening. The apartments, as well as the bike parking, so there's 150 long term and short term bike parking, spaces.

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Cob, andrew collins: and addition, I think, there's a proximity to the the boulder junction depot and the transit options that are right,. They are kind of helps, support more walkability.

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Cob, andrew collins: listen staffs determination and then they did have a tpm report as part of the attachment submitted that their consultant, I believe, found that that.

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Cob, andrew collins:, the requested model modification, the reduction in the parking would it be supportable and maybe that booking can speak more about the exact numbers with that.

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Cob, andrew collins:, in terms of what the other affordable projects provide for housing,. I really don't have that information myself.

M

Charles ferro: yeah, I can probably speak to that a little bit andrew. It's not uncommon for permanently affordable projects to have at least 33% parking reductions,. We have some in town with upwards of almost 80%.

M

Charles ferro:, so I think bhp has a pretty good feel for how to manage their parking. So maybe they can speak to.

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Charles ferro:, how they do that as part of their presentation, well.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya:. I will really appreciate that part is like I said,. I think the parking is more than relative to the kinds of jobs that some segments of our population has, and that's my only concern that, for them really is not a choice. It's really that we rely on on the vehicles for the livelihoods.

G

Pb harmon zuckerman: question john.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah, as I seem to recall when we looked at this about a year ago in concept review that there was a possibility of a path.

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Pb, john gerstle:, going from east to west along the north side of the property to 28 street from.

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Pb, john gerstle:- and I don't see that in in the material, we see today,, I was wondering.

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Pb, john gerstle:, am I misremembering, or has something happened to eliminate the possibility of that path.

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Cob, andrew collins: applicant speak to that design. I'm trying to remember.

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Cob, andrew collins: now,, if that was a direction they were going to do,, then I don't. I don't wanna call.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: andrew that's fine,, we can john. Can you just hold that question and re? Ask it when you have to the african presentation, thank you, other questions.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,. If we can hear from the applicant up sarah.

K

Pb sarah silver: yeah,, so this is actually in the transport station areas. Well, the.

K

Pb sarah silver: time. pb, sarah silver:. My notes are over on this laptop in reading through the traffic report.

K

Pb sarah silver:, the the traffic analyst made the point that one of the intersections that's already in existence at 28th and bluff has very low lol scores and I'm just curious if you all have been thinking about how to.

K

Pb sarah silver: deal with fat, as you increase the number of residents people who will might be using their cars at that intersection.

X

Cob,, andrew collins: and I'd be a good question for the for the applicant with this particular project,. But I think reading through that report, as well as seeing seeing that this, that this proposal would not increase the level or decrease the level of service..

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Cob, andrew collins: on the networks versus what's already.

K

Pb sarah silver: right. Well, it's up. pb, sarah silver: yeah. It's already a see, sometimes f,, which would suggest that.

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Pb sarah silver: needs some fixing and I think it's not I'm not sure it's the applicants responsibility,. I think it might be, I'm not sure it might be. The city's just.

M

Charles ferro: ya know it's a good question. The way that we've done transportation planning in the city is kind of you know, very frankly, to ignore levels of service.

M

Charles ferro:, you know, and really put capital into our all nodes, and that's what we've done so,. You know we frequently have turned pockets,. You know in town,, particularly off 28th street, that you know operate at worse than a level of service f,. I think the city's investment in alternative modes particularly.

M

Charles ferro:, in transit,, as well as multi youth use, half investment is really where we focused our resources, less so on improvements to the roadways for the level of service of vehicles. So it's really been kind of a policy direction that the city has pursued over the years.

A

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Pb harmon zuckerman: other questions., pb, harmon, zuckerman:, okay, and then just for our.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: for our benefit, for when we end up deliberating, I would just ask seth to confirm that the only reason this application is in front of us,, for the use review for portion of our review is the ground floor residential and that we're not to.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman:, you know., pb, harmon zuckerman:, get deeply into., pb, harmon, zuckerman:, all kinds of sites, specific details, and you know, in the way that we talked about this review. Our last.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: in our last hearing.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I see not meeting the.

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Cob, andrew collins: terms of the actual yeah, the use review is only for the ground floor, residential along the streets.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: thanks peter.

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Pb, peter vitale:- and this probably is the right time to ask staff to remind me.

R

Pb, peter vitale: to explain when or how this particular ground floor. Retail component came about.

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Pb, peter vitale:, because in my mind, I just want to make sure that I'm right now I'm handling this,, but I wanted to have staff confirm.

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Pb, peter vitale:, the intent, or at least the policy behind this described for retail, and I don't know if everybody was on the board when,. If I recall correctly,, it came about at some point, recently.

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Pb, peter vitale: that might help our discussion.

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Cob, andrew collins: sure yeah a trial, some jump in as well,, but I think this,. This is one of our new limited uses,, so we.

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Cob, andrew collins: have end of 2019. Counseled opted some changes to these table code,, and so this is one of them,. So as a as a limited use for this one thing, it's l one.

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Cob, andrew collins: attached residential is allowed by rights, so long as it's not located on the ground floor facing the streets in the in this sewing districts bms. So the intent is to encourage.

X

Cob, andrew collins:, non residential uses, commercial or retail uses on the ground floor along kind of the business mainstream areas, however,. There is a use for view option, where it came to review against the standard use, review, criteria.

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Cob,, andrew collins: so, again, I guess that's the overall intense it depends on wearing a location,, the actual context, I would say as well for the site.

M

Charles ferro: and I think part of the rationale for including the mechanism to allow a user view to entertain residential uses at the ground floor was to recognize that every site might not be.

M

Charles ferro: viable for., charles ferro: retail users,. I think this is probably a pretty good example of a site that might not function well with retail in it.

M

Charles ferro: and then I think the other thing was really doing the maximization of permanently affordable housing, and I think that was part of the discussion was a really allow opportunities to load up sites with affordable housing where it's appropriate.

J

Pb, peter vitale: oh.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yep go ahead, peter.

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Pb, peter vitale: did this come about.

R

pb, peter vitale: because of the concern that the baseline and broadway shopping center may be converted into housing. And that's what triggered this or was this around before.

M

Charles ferro:, I'm the baseline, zero development I.

R

Pb, peter vitale: baseline zero, not baseline, zero the.

E

Pb, peter vitale: long.

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Pb, peter vitale:, as mar this council moment when cindy carla.

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Charles ferro: carla was on council.- pb, peter vitale:. This came about this concern that we would lose community serving retail, and so we put this into position,, which now seems to pop up in various places that we have to now be used to review around.

M

Charles ferro: oh,, that was the that's. What initiated that suite of code changes that wasn't necessarily the prescriptive direction,, but I think that was one of the policy issues that we were tasked with, trying to put some regulations. To.

R

Pb, peter vitale: thank you.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: any more questions before we turn it over to the applicant.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: and I know we already have a couple of questions queued up for the applicants. So.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: give it back to andrew collins and andrew. If you can help the applicant through, the applicant has 15 minutes to make their presentation, with an additional three minutes only for rebuttal purposes. After public comment.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, okay,, good evening,. I am going to get us kicked off here. I'm laura shine baum. I am with boulder housing partners. Thank you so much for having us.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, it's exciting to be back before you with this project at 2727, 29 street. We did know some of the questions that came up during the comments from planning board and we will be sure to address those once we get through the the main presentation, here.

V

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, so we're bhp, boulder housing partners are the housing authority of the city of boulder. We've been in front of you enough times,. I think you know who we are, but.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: simply,. We are the property manager and developer of exclusively affordable housing in the city of boulder. These are no easy, tasks.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, some days,, but really incredibly important,. I think we all saw news of.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: recent days that boulder is now has the infamy of being in the top 10 most expensive communities in the in the country for average home price,, and I think we heard from the chamber today, that.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: prices have gone up 11% since the pandemic started,. So we are doubling down on our efforts for the amount of affordable housing that we're trying to provide in the city, sometimes a little challenging, but we're thrilled to be bringing 100 units of exclusively affordable to you. Tonight.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, so we've you housing is really a linchpin for the well being of both an individual in a community and also the community itself with livable healthy, sustainable housing. That's brought forward at an affordable rent, level.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: to a variety of income levels as well,. We really believe anyone can thrive here in boulder.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:. Thank you next slide,, as you can see, on this slide, we really permission have a great nexus, it's very clear, with the boulder valley comp plan. So some of those overlaps are right. Here.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: every project we design, is meeting the incredible need and demand for affordable every time we lease up a project. It's the demand is so strong.

V

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: that they lease up very quickly. Our projects are really invested in creating neighborhood diversity and equity.

V

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: and economic resiliency, not only for an individual who's renting from us,, but also for the city, so.

V

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, you know,, a lower rent at affordable rare means more money in somebody's pocket,, which then also means more money being spent in theory in the city, which is really a win, win for the individual and the community. So.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:. If we could go to the next slide, please do.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: so,. Not only do we have nexus with bullet valley, comp plan,, but we have.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: commitments that are to community benefit,, so you can see some images here of a rendering of 30 pros,. So we are committed to public art, at.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: any of our new developments. We build it into what we do for the site and then you'll see a starting to retro, actively put murals in different forms of art within our portfolio.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, we have resident service community serving spaces and all of our properties.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, we are incredibly committed to environmental efficiencies,, and so we really strive to even go beyond what the seas already very extreme requirements are for.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners,, applicant: efficiency and energy, efficiency, and then,, as you heard from andrew, we do transportation. Take that very seriously as well,, especially alternate forms of transportation,. So we provide eco passes to our residents, have by sharing harsher programs.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, so the other thing I'll point out on this slide is the map,. So we are located,, as you can see, we're spread out all over the city, so options, I think, are really important for people to be able to choose.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, perhaps what's going to meet their needs,, and I think that that is you know, having access to your school or your work and having those choices is really important..

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: rally. Sport is super well located right in the center of town and has that great access to multimodal transportation and bike paths and all that good stuff. As well, so.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:. I think that there are very few trade offs or this project, and sometimes we have to sort through some things that are hard,, but on this in this instance,, I think we're presenting to you a really.

V

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners,, applicant:, robust and strong project that is 100% affordable. It's going to be a vibrant, great location. It's beautifully designed and, of course,, affordable, so.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:. I hope you like it as much as we do. I'm now going to hand off to dell how lucky with coburn- and he will walk you through some of the details of the project. Thanks.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, thanks andrew. If we could go the next slide.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, it's a fascinating, so he has both andrew and laura had mentioned. It's very amenity, rich restaurants, stores, grocery stores, fitness centers.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, if we could could go to the next slide. It's also very well served by both bike paths and mass transit.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, so on the next slide. What's interesting about all this is that we've talked about trying to get return, a residential into the commercial cores of various parts of town, for a long time.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, it's critical right,, because if it's just a commercial area, it's a nine to five community and it's not a neighborhood and it's not healthy so.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, there's this big swath through the middle of this area of town, that's just or has been historically just commercial.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, yellow, is residential, so we've got the established residential on the west, and we have a bunch of residential to the east,, but nothing sort of in the middle and what started to develop is is really.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant: really,, encouraging along goose creek,, which is the dark green line and the open space, the light green. There are residential.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant: areas that are certain pop up and crop up, and this woman that this mainstream of residential.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant: through that kind of seemingly connection, and this continues, that pattern, the goose creek spur, goes up to the north and joins this property in this property continues that kind of residential transformation.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, not of the whole area,, but just enough to start it into a more healthy kind. Of.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, functional neighborhood on the next slide and andrew said some of this too. There's a lot of work to be done. Most of this area was built over the.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: course of 20 or 30 years. It was all auto dominated right,, so all the streets, sidewalks setbacks. Buildings parking lots, it's all for the car, it's not for people.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, there's a little hint of change. We've got the residential property in the northeast. The white rooftops up there.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: as andrew mentioned, also there's some residential properties in south that are starting to reclaim the streets for people,, but this project has to do a good job of doing that in order to continue that pattern and kind of be a catalyst to that. Change.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: and also really has to capture the goose creek passport, as it comes in, from the south, and that's that grace for that comes in, on the bottom line and picture.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, so we'll keep that in mind on the next slide. When we came to you and concept plan, we sort of illustrating how we got to this massive, how we got to this this design.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, we started with the overall buildable area, that's the gray box in the upper left, and then we cut out of it, the open space.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant: create like an air for the for the residents and shrink the building with down something that's sustainable from a light in their standpoint,. But the only penetrate that in the upper right with the blue.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:. We want to connect that open space and then interior, to the public realm to the streets,, where people are going to be so it's important to a road that.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: and then on the bottom left from the parking behind, because the last thing they want to do is divorced, the building from the street and put parking in between, where people are going to be walking where people are living..

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: and then, in the middle on the bottom. That's the kind of result in pattern and that's where we left it, the last time we showed it to you.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:. I think there was a lot of comfort with that on planning board and we heard that so we develop that further and to take the diagram to the next step. On the next slide, you can kind of see how that diagram has now.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: become architecture, so we'll get into the site plan. If we could go to the next slide. We'll talk about the details of that.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:. We really have a lot of focus on trying to connect building to the public ground because, again in this area of town,, we have to reclaim the public realm, it's not an outdoor around and it needs to be.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, so we're trying to create a situation where that that junction between 29th street in the building in blustery in the building.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: is really strong and then we also want to create open space inside so that there's relief for the residents,. They have a place to go,. They have a place to socialize.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: and mostly that's about creating community these little pod spaces and places for people to interact, and that's what builds that neighborhood. We found over the years.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, the parking is kept to the west and to the north, in the alley. That will be a future alley.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant: that we're dedicated space to the city for on the west, and then the parking lots of the north trashes back there,, but really we're kind of keeping the human realm.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: to the south, to the east and to the southeast corner on the next slide. We'll talk about some of the things that we are planning board tell us last time.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant: go back one. Thank you appreciate it,, so you had mentioned,. Can we get more affordable units in here and what increasing the height allow us to do? That.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: unfortunately, in this zone, fdr and units are very limited,, so this is what fits we can't put any more on there.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, but you also encouraged us to do some more play with the rules and get some penetrations through that high moment and not not to go wild or anything. But we did take advantage of that and we'll show you that in a minute.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, we talked about the parking and and when we came to a concert plan, we had a really.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant:. We have fewer parking spaces,. You said that that made sense,, but you wanted us to really consider what that appropriate number was we'll talk about that in a moment.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, the potential for first for commercial came on in conjunction with the use review and also john what you mentioned about. What's appropriate, we did go back and look at that pretty hard and.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: you know,, first of all, php mission is to bring as many units as possible of affordable housing into the city.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, there's also there's a lot of hoops you have to jump through in order to do that from with with financing and the regulations and everything else.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, but maybe more importantly,. This area is predominantly commercial right now there is no want for commercial space here,. There may be one for commercial space elsewhere in town.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, but here what's missing, is the residential. That's, what's keeping it from being a complete neighborhood.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: and the other reality is there's not enough people in boulder to support first floor commercial everywhere in town.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, so we need to create this. This residential here, and one of the things you mentioned was well okay. If you're going to do, residential on the first floor.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: make sure it works. So we'll talk about how that works, and then the last thing that we heard.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: was a make sure that the the open spaces, we really wanted to do more, connected to the street,. They were fairly close down. So we opened up those building.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant: gaps on the north and the south side more and then put a real place on the south side,, where you could really occupy and recreate to kind of connect that to the street.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, so now,, if you could go to the next slide, appreciate that this is a view that courtyard space so again what andrew was talking about,. We have a lot of these little moments.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, because we found that that's where community happens very there's, there's little caught places that people can feel comfortable, that we call them at ease..

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: and that you know, a group of two or three people can stand around and talk to be comfortable and not feel like they have to keep moving as next slide. Andrew thanks.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, it's even more pronounced on front, so there's two things we need to do on the front of the building. The first is to make the pedestrian scale at the street, and the second is creating appropriate transition between the the.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn, applicant: sidewalk, the common space and the private of the residential, so we're kind of.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, killing two birds with one stone here: there's been an enormous body of scientific work over the last 10 years to prove that the brain maps things in the first 12 feet.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant: at a much higher level of detail,, and it does things above that, because we could be any touch it. So we want to know how to interact with it.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, but that's the enhancement at that level, allows a greater connection to it and you've heard me say: that, before.,.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, so we're really working on the first level. Here we've got the the awning that comes across and transitions between, balcony and owning and in and out, and that helps create the.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant: roof to create that outdoor room we've got the.

Y

Bill, holicky,, coburn, applicant: steps up to the units and we have trees and we have planters and help shielded residential from the street and also create a lot of interest at that. First floor.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, we're using brick and we're doing a real base and we're doing lentils and moving to windows open now and all those things that make.

Y

Bill holicky, coburn applicant: we're trying to kind of steal from pearl street volatile such a strip mall.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, all those ins and outs of movements in the fact that's a bunch of different buildings are what makes it interesting so we're trying to steal that level of detail.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: of above they're still detail, but it's less important for them,. So in this way we're trying to make that appropriate transition or the great separated and shielded with multiple screens between the public of the sidewalk in the private units,. If we go to the next slide.

D

Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):, I don't mean to interrupt. You got about two minutes.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant: thank you,. The open space we didn't want to just say: hey: we've got all this extra open space, we're programming it,, so the dark green is places where people can circulate gather.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, light green is more visual, so that's where gardens plantings bush's trees go and then the sidewalks are not just going to be great or enhanced with a better service than that,. So you know decorative throughout to make you comfortable hanging out there,. The next slide is the parking.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, I will,, maybe the best way to handle this is in the question and answer. I know, there's a question about it,, but we didn't look at bhp. Look the heart at the other sites that they have.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, and they feel this is an appropriate amount of parking. So I'd welcome a question there and we can talk about it in more detail, and then to finish up the last two slides with the architecture,. So this is an eclectic area of town. It's not downtown. It's not established its.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant: eccentric, at best,, so we wanted to create an architecture that was classic and had all the components of good buildings, but still have movement to it and had an interest to it.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, but it still has a base in accordance, to the top and it has the brick, and it has shielded balconies. So you can feel comfortable on, and it has lentils over the windows.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, and it has announcements, with the with the towers at the entries, the parts that you have the building or interact with, because we want to make sure that.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, it's going to be talented, still has the components that make the good architecture,. It just has some more movement in interest, because it's in this developing part of town.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: and then on the last slide. This corner is really important,. It does receive the bike path. That is where you interact with that,, so the audience sticks out there, a little bit like a theorem are key.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, the the mesh comes up to say, hey,. This is an important corner and then the inside of that tunnel is is all built out of wood.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, and it also is very sculptural, so that column has the word kind of moving on it. Sort of seeing this rendering the ceiling moves. Around.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, like a worked parquet floors and the idea is, as you walk along,, are you buying cross it's a very comforting place to be. It welcomes people into the project. So that's what we had to say and certainly welcome questions. I know there's some things on people's minds.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: great thanks.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: questions from planning, board.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: john. If you want,, we can start with you.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah. pb, john gerstle:. I was interested in in good possibility of an east, west half connecting 29th street and 28 street along the north.

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Pb, john gerstle: portion of the property, probably through the parking lot, seemed to me that that was being discussed previously,, but I don't see it here. So I'm just wondering what's going on.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:. So it's good question john. I remember that it came up in planning board as a question and.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:. I apologize if I missed remember,, but I didn't think it was a direction, however,. We did think about that andrew. Would it be possible for me to to bring the site plan backup? Could you bring like slide 11 or something 10.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, so we talked to transportation staff about that and that's not that's great that'll work, thank you.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, that's not an identified path and the tmp, and so there's no there's no way for anyone to require that the you, the sites to the west eventually do that.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, there's also this concern about.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant: how it works with parking lot, so what we ended up, doing,, rightly or wrongly,. We thought this would at least provide that connection is there's the path between the two buildings, south building and the north, building on the eastern side and it changes colors. So it's not.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:. I wish I could just draw a line on the screen,, but you can then continue north and then take a left and that sidewalk could connect all the way to a property to the west.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: bhp is going to manage this long term, and I think that if there is a pedestrian connection, we're very supportive of that.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: and we'd like to continue with that connection. There's even that the crosswalk, that's hashed. It would continue to the alley.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, but that alley would have to be crossed, and that is now dedicated to the city,. So if the city could work with the neighboring property owner to the west.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant: of there is it's not a direct connection,, but there is a way to walk through the site to get across,. But I just need to reiterate,, because it was reiterated to me that there is nothing in the tmp that would require that connection on a western property.

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Pb, john gerstle: here.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: sarah.

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Pb sarah silver:, I think we may have talked about the concept plan,, but I'd like to understand why they're no three bedroom units I ended,. It is my understanding that there's a long list of people.

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Pb sarah silver: looking for permanently affordable housing who needs three bedrooms because they have kids. So I'm curious what the rationale was: the rat, what the thinking was for just one to one to two bedrooms.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: yeah, I'm happy to take that sarah thanks. um So when we plan out our properties,, we do have market data that informs what type of unit style, we would be building in this location.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, it was determined that the one zero ones and twos, mainly the ones and twos, would be best.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: so, in terms of the the long waiting list,, I will say that that has not.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, always been our experience with leasing up a three bedroom unit. So I'm not entirely sure that our data is lining up with yours, but.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:. We have a lot of three bedrooms within our portfolio and those are not always the first to lease, and so it's always really the ones and the twos ones in particular, that are in most highly in most demand for us.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners, applicant:, so I don't think that it's that we necessarily we're recruiting through nigerians here,, but we have other sites within the neighborhood. So diagonal court.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, come to your site,, so we have that type of product style over a canopy as well, that is serving that three bedroom population for affordable.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: good solid people's hand, go up next.

Q

Pb, lupita d, montoya: up, yes,, so my question, going back to the park in, and I believe you did have one diagram when you were showing.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: standard versus compact vehicle parking.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:. If you can speak a little bit too,, you know I would imagine the standards being a you know larger than the compact weather in your experience. Standard is perfectly adequate for people who, may you know, use a large.

Q

Pb, lupita d, montoya: pickup truck for their jobs.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, yeah, that's a great question. You know sort of also try to answer your other question about parking that you asked before.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, you know parking is a really it's a really interesting subject. You know, we want a balance between designing for people and not cars,, because cars are just storage right. It's all it is.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: and also making it possible,, especially in affordable housing for people to do their jobs and live the life,. They need to live.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, so in php, looks at that they're looking at a whole portfolio, so they're able to look at and say okay,. We have projects all over the city,, and this is how well they're served with transit and easier.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: and here's our population and here's how many cars we have so in terms of the overall parking reduction. That's what was done, bhp sort of analyze where they stood with their populations in their in their residence and said okay.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, going to be very easy for us to fill up 20 units here with people that don't want to have cars. It's a great spot for those people.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:. If people need to have cars, we've got ad units for them here and we have you know, thousands of students throughout the city that might be better locations. For.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant: people that have to have cars,, because maybe they're not sure as well with transit. So you know gather the folks that really want to live cheaply, without a car here where, as possible.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: in terms of the small versus standard car,. You know I've never been asked that before it's a great question, I can't believe nobody's ever asked. It.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, um so yeah. You definitely have folks that need pickup trucks right there, they're they're working in in place that needs a pickup truck, so we.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant: provide a good number of those, but the other reality is that the larger cars and more expensive so in affordable housing,. You know folks often tend to choose,. You know really fuel efficient cars,, because again.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: cost of money is an object right,. So we see a lot of the smaller cars to and.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant: in a spot,, especially where bhp can manage the parking because they're managing the residents and they can help people. You know people with a smaller car can move to the smaller car spaces spaces people, the larger car can move to the bigger car spaces.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:. They can help manage that. Additionally, as people change over over time, if somebody's looking at a php unit say oh,, I can live here,. I live here.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, I have a big truck. You know, steer them to the one. That's you know the best location,, maybe it's here,. Maybe we've got a bunch of.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: unused larger spaces, so it's really a kind of an ideal situation, because it can all be managed and kind of focused towards the people that are using the right, infrastructure.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: so far you want to call it out.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:: you want to follow up.

Q

Pb, lupita d, montoya: yes,, yes,, so., pb,, lupita d montoya:. I like that the colors coordination and I noticed the um.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya:, the blue color. It was the larger ones. I don't know that, like the size but,, but I was thinking in terms of the percentage of the total that makes up and also even for the question that am sarah asked earlier, and that laura was answering.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: with regards of you know, the data,, maybe not matching the perception that we have in terms of you know who needs.

Q

Pb, lupita d, montoya: a who will live here,. What are the needs of within the city,? I think, her concerns were wasn't in this number of bedrooms. My concerns is a number of the of the larger parking spaces for people that need to you, know.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya:, we know a lot,. I know a lot of people who work in gardening and construction,, so they they, they all have trucks, all of them, and so, for me,. It's like.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya:. I said,, given that if you want to accommodate this populations and moving to this kind of housing, as opposed to the trailer parks,, where they live, now.,.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, they will need space for their trucks and I was just wondering cut. That rate was calculated,, because I know that many times we're base calculations on data that really does not reflect.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya: the diversity of our population,, and that goes for a lot of things that we know it's a lot of skew enos and data in I'm wondering if that's something that the city's looking a little bit more closely with regards to maybe it's time to revisit those assumptions on how things are divided.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: to I'll be really brief and then let laura speak a little bit. So a couple things. The small car spaces are not a tiny spaces. There, 1515 foot.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, 6577, foot, nine. I might have the inches reversed. I'm sorry. I should know that.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, so you can definitely put a large car in there,. You can put a truck in. It gets real close to real time,. You have to excuse to get out your doors,, but they fit.

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Bill holicky, coburn, applicant:, so, again,, I think, as a city we're trying to put less of our ground into our storage,, so you know,. I think that it's just a way to help reduce the amount of asphalt that we have.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:, but it doesn't preclude someone for parking a larger part of their you know,, maybe a you know,, an eight seat van would be a problem. Certainly the second thing is, and I'll want to turn this over to beach peter. To answer this, they have.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, you know, very many units and they are have a really good sense of what kind of vehicles are parked in those units.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, so I think one of the issue, we always run into is you know my perception, your perception and all of our perceptions are saying we need this thing,, but they actually have the data,. So I shouldn't answer. I should turn it over to laura or even asked.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: to finally answer your question. A little bit more than half of the parking spaces are large, a little bit. Less than half are small and then laura. You want to speak to the kinds of vehicles in your your those.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: mean yeah. So honestly we don't. um I don't know that I have data on who drives what what vehicle and how, how big they are, and that kind of thing I do can speak to the fact that we.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, have as far as I know,. I have never had issues with.

V

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: the size of vehicle and that vehicle not being able to find a location to park within a property that they want to live at so if, for example, somebody living a canopy and they drive a truck because they are doing landscaping. We will accommodate them in one of the larger parking spaces.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: in that site,, so you know we work with folks to be able to figure out what the right solution is going to be in in those instances,. So I think the 5050 trade off that I don't even know that it's a trade off,, but that the plan that we have for.

V

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: this site is, is absolutely appropriate in terms of the number of units versus like 82 verses 121. I mean,, I think you know one one. Space per unit.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, makes some sense. I think we're less than that because we are experiencing that people are not bringing cars and that their incentive not to bring a car to say when they have the ability to get.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: a full time, eco pass that's available to them sort of in perpetuity, as they are leaseholder there and then again, location, location, location,. You know the access to the bike paths and the.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: bus routes and that kind of thing has enabled us to be able to.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, you know,, really manage what that looks like for the the property at that lower level of parking to unit count. So.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:. I hope that helps. But again it's bats are experience so yeah.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the one part of peters question that I was interested in hearing it answer. To.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: that I didn't hear an answer to is just: are you considering all the different.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: kinds of people,, because if you know, if you're selecting a group of people who need affordable housing,- but you know, aren't generally landscapers and construction workers.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, then you know sure you're answering your own question. You don't need large parking spaces,. So you know, what's the what's the you know, outreach and and.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: intentional solicitation of diversity that that you go through with bhp to make sure that we have a diverse crowd that gets opportunities for housing in boulder.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing partners, applicant:, so we do wide outreach with all of our properties that we lease up. So we start with an interest list. Anybody who's interested in the property to start to get sort of regular emails about what we're doing at the site.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: and then from that interest list,, then we will open up application list and so people will apply, and then we usually run a lottery to select the first folks that would come to the site. So.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: that we also advertise and many of the same ways any property manager would advertise. So there isn't necessarily a specific.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, affordable housing, manner,. We are a landlord, so we're advertising in the same way that any property manager would in town.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: with that said, we partner with every single nonprofit in the city,, and so we get the word out to all of those groups in terms of.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: when we have a property, that's coming up for lease, so you know, in terms of us trying to you know engineer, is coming to a site. It's.

V

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, we're letting people choose,, and so I don't know that we are as as directed as maybe what you're suggesting that we're doing,. But we are just trying to get people who.

V

Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, you know,, think this would be a good location for them and getting that spread. The word spread regarding the property as widely as possible.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: and one other really.

A

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant: quickly. Sorry one other really good point is that not all sites are equal right,. So these aren't exactly the same, and so good planning and good.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: provision of affordable housing means you look at what's really strong about that site and you accentuated.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, and you don't try to force something on the site that doesn't make sense,. So if you want to live without a car,, this is a great setting. For.

Y

Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant:, north pole or might not be as good insight for it, so maybe holiday neighborhood is a better location for folks that need a lot of parking, and maybe here is a great location for people that want to live without a car,. So we try.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: it'll, be it'll, be really focuses on this fine with strong about the site finally answered about the site and accentuated so that the folks that are living in the housing can take advantage of it.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: yeah. I just want to thank you,, but I think it's important to you. The one map that I, we had in the one of the first slides as.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, you know,. We are really trying to provide options within the city right so there's stuff in north builder and south boulder and central boulder, and we just bought in gun barrel,. And so you know, it's.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:- we want to have you know, sort of this selection of housing,, so people can match what their needs are to the housing that we have available and so.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, that is the intent and not every property, is going to be suitable or desirable for every single person,. But there's there will be something within the portfolio that meets their needs, in my opinion, so.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman:, thanks for all right, so john, did you have your hand up before.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you have your hand up before john.

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Pb, john gerstle: yes. pb harmon zuckerman:. I just had a real when john and lisa.

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pb, john gerstle: okay,. Thank you are. Is the parking unbundled with the apartment, rents.

V

Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: it so so the parking is included in the rent, so.

A

Pb, john gerstle: ali.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: pay extra for parking correct so generally. The way it works is somebody its first come, first serve so there's 82 spots for 100 units.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: and every single one of the first 82 units least has a car,. They got a parking spot, that's not our experience, but that's how it works. So first come,, first serve, and then in terms of.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, they wouldn't get an assigned space,, so they would get a parking sticker that would allow them to park in the parking lot.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:. It costs more to get a unit with porky than it does to not correct.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners,, applicant: and no,. We have learned from the tax credit rules that we are not allowed to discount a unit based on parking status.

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Pb, john gerstle: so, then,, that implies also but you're not allowed to to have an explicit parking charge.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: correct if we use tax credit financing which we intend to use for this project, well.

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Pb, john gerstle: okay,, because I think that's with most of our market rate projects that we see it, is unbundled and that's a pity that you can't do that.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: yes,, I will I would not expect that to be the case for for affordable housing,, because I, like, I said, one of the things that I think about when affordable housing, as people who are actually has less money,. I would imagine for people who use the vehicles for leisure leisure.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, those I'm not I'm, not worried about charging them for parking, but for people who live off the cars,, I don't think that they did not equal, absolutely not equal,, so they should not be treated the same. That's just my.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah, so this policy.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, that's like it's a federal tax rule, so., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, I will., laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing. Partners, applicant: always have to defer to that. When I take somebody else's money and equity to close that gap to charge those lower rents in phase,, they I can't charge for parking, I'm not going to be able to charge for parking so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and we can provide apparently, apparently our federal government likes like roads and cars and stuff lisa.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: lisa.

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Pb, lisa smith: yeah, so so just wanted to circle back a little just something that you touched on around that parking question, and that was around.

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Pb, lisa smith: the ways that you market and the way that you try to find folks to live somewhere and.

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Pb, lisa smith:. I would just be very interested to know, for this site specifically and then more broadly.

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Pb, lisa smith:, you know what what you would specifically do to bring in people who maybe aren't as aware of you know, what's provided through bhp, you know if there are certain kinds of communities, or.

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Pb, lisa smith: people, you know whether it's race or age or language or whatever, that that just aren't as aware,. You know how do you.

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Pb, lisa smith: reach those. You know what is your research and data? Tell you about the people you're not reaching, and what have you found to be effective, to kind of inform people that these opportunities, exist.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: well,, you know,. I think that we have.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, you know, an extensive.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners,, applicant: property management team that does lease all of our properties and so they're all bilingual and have sort of the connections,. Also with our resident services teams to you, know, a bunch of the different, perhaps communities that may be less.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, aware of some of the project properties that we have but.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, you know the direct outreach is what we find is that people find us,, and so we have. You know extensive waiting lists for different types of products for housing. Subsidies, such as vouchers.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: in terms of somebody coming in that isn't aware of all the different sites that we have. We will help them, navigate that system and say: okay, so you've got three kids and you need a larger size unit. So these are the properties that could be available,, and then we have a.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: what we have moved to me from his big long waiting list, because people need housing at a point in time,, so instead of.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, saying okay, get on our waiting, list, and then,. When we get a three bedroom and a year and a half we're going to contact, you well, that person's already figured out their housing situation normally by that point in time, so.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, so our it's a constantly evolving website,. We have people who are aware of what's vacant when somebody were to contact us.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: and then we're also. You know we work with cpw at the shelter,. You know all the different partners and the city to you know get word out when we have availability and also leasing up so like 30. Pro is coming right out. So yeah.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, so I want to,. I want to move on and make sure we're asking questions around the sec review and use review criteria and not.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you know, turn this into too much of policy discussion as to the internal operations of the hp. So if we can try to cut that off to some reasonable level and get back to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: the task at hand,. That would be great next question.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, we have peter again trying to just connect.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: and we apologize, we get excited because this is all about affordable housing and you know we have big fans so.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: just want to know that it's not coming from a bad place is really as where we're at all what you guys are doing for the city,. So thank you very much. On.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: one one question I had was regarding again the populations that you're serving and wondering,, because we do have a fair number of young professionals and we have heard from them and a number of other projects that come to the board.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: people that live,, for example, in in co, ops and I'm just wondering if there is any any information that you guys have regarding transition from those populations from the co ops on to you. Know,, affordable housing under your management.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:. I am aware of any information regarding moving from a co op into our housing.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, we do.

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laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant:, as far as I know, not track that particular data..

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, but that will be part of, for example,. When you do the outreach and for people become aware, because I'm wondering, that will be something that they may be interested in in you know.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: developing developments,, like this one,, especially since you have mostly one in two bedrooms.

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Laura sheinbaum,, boulder housing, partners, applicant: and he said yeah, that's a really good suggestion and something that I will pass forward to our team, at least, is the property great thank you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any more questions. pb harmon zuckerman: for the african before we move on.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, then I'm going to close it out and go to public comment. Now.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: tina. If you would manage the moderator duties for public comment, that would be great.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): I'd be happy to harmon thanks and so as folks now perhaps folks weren't here at the beginning, when we went over the information,, if you would like to participate in the public.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her): three minutes each. If you'd like to do that,, please use the raise hand function,, I see at least one person has found that it's usually at the bottom of the screen,, sometimes on the reactions, and sometimes it's in the participants.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her): box to find that the hand raised. So if you can't find the hand raised,, please just send me a message in the chat and we'll get you queued up to all right. Three minutes to start,. We have curtain our back david adams and thomas wells and making calls kurt. You can go ahead.

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Kurt nordback: great thank you, cornerback speaking on behalf of community cycles,, first of all,, we strongly support the barking reduction. That's proposed here,, given the location and the applicant.

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Kurt nordback:, we feel that that's completely appropriate and and we feel that people will definitely be using non automotive modes. Quite a bit.

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Kurt nordback: in their context, though, speaking of the curb cuts. This feels like a really a systemic failure.

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Kurt nordback: we're trying to shift modes we're trying to reduce auto use, trying to improve conditions for people walking and biking, and yet we can't provide a curb cut at this corner. So someone in a wheelchair, for example.

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Kurt nordback:, starting from this corner, has to go. He looks like 150 feet north to the one curb cut on 29th street and then backs out the same distance just to get to the the connection to the goose creek.

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Kurt nordback:, so I realize it's not your problem. It's not the applicants problem. It's not even really transportations problem. It's a systemic problem, so.

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Kurt nordback: there's nothing. We can do about it,, I guess at this point,, but I just want to point it out again to you and in your role as leaders in this community,. It would be great if we could.

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Kurt nordback: get the system to work together better to actually achieve our tmp goals, our model shift goals and so on, thank you.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):, thank you, carrie.

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cob,jean, gatza, moderator, (she/her): david,. You can go ahead.

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Okay., david adamson:, there you go all right.

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David adamson:, thank you so much planning board for your beautiful service.

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David adamson: and goose, creek, camille and trust is so encouraged. By, of course, support this project, which shoehorns like pollard and die on crossing a little bit of affordable housing, housing amidst the.

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David adamson:, you know, continuing dramatic redevelopment of boulders residential land,, especially the small amount of land available for multifamily development, into.

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David adamson:, you know more and more diversity deserts. So you know the were the luxury units, like the 940 norris street. You know six $1.5 million condos right in a high density, area.

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David adamson:, the ball, some 27 pine, where I think coburn wanted to develop some middle income units.

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David adamson:, fifth and pearl, you know park mosaic,, etc,, etc, etc,, including all the single family zones, which are being dramatically redeveloped into all.

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David adamson: luxury units so ice,. While we support this project,, we strongly urge the board to ask the planning department to measure the net loss of affordable housing and boulder.

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David adamson:, as discussed in their great 2014 strategic plan, so that we can see that, despite.

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David adamson:, bhp and other providers beautiful work, our land use practice is utterly in contradiction to our bbc p values,. A welcoming, inclusive and diverse community.

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David adamson:, you know,, with a diversity of housing, types and price ranges, and we continue to segregate housing by race and income and purge the city of middle income. Families.

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David adamson: anyway, we're very appreciative of bhp and coburn thinking about a vision for residential along goose creek.

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David adamson:, we wish we were doing more. I've done some some exploration just a little bit downstream for that,, but we want to build on that that vision that you discuss so well.

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David adamson:, and so that we have a connection between here and all the way through alpine balsam, completing that goose creek path and past outline balsam.

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David adamson:, you know, into the warner that we've proposed along north street and then further all the way to this, and you just open space, so that folks, living at this project.

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David adamson: can access that open space and go from this very urban area and access the wonderful natural area that is really only accessible by the valley very wealthy community. That's there at at newlands.

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David adamson:, so we're we're very sad, finally, that we couldn't collaborate successfully with the staff to discuss our very detailed proposal.

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David adamson:, with very little staff time and drawing mostly on volunteers, to help implement the neighborhood info program that you.

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David adamson: supported also, you know, put into the bcp four years: ago, the planning board supported and several council people supported at the council. Retreat.

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David adamson:, so again, love this project love what he is doing. Love bill, hockey's vision there, let's, let's build on that. Let's continue that and thank you again for your wonderful service.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her): thank you,, david., cob,jean, gatza, moderator (she/her):. Next up is thomas wells,, followed by making followed by lynn.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): thomas, you can go ahead.

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Thomas wells: great, can you hear me.

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Thomas wells:, we can yes hi everyone, tom swells. I live across the street at the goose creek condos. So right there at that corner, of.

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Thomas wells:, 28th and bluff- I lived there for about four years. I currently serve as our hoa board president, but I'm speaking on behalf of myself tonight, not representing our association.

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Thomas wells:, I also need to acknowledge,. There was previously on the boulder junction access district parking board just a little ways away. Some of you might recognize my voice from that no longer there, but I'm pretty familiar with the area.

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Thomas wells:, I just want to say,. I very much support this project, I,, like everything that's going on here. It's been a great discussion and I appreciate the presentations tonight.

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Thomas wells:, I fully support the reduction in parking and, if anything, would ask for further reduction in parking,. If possible,, I doubt that bhp is willing to do that, because I know.

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Thomas wells: people do come with cars,, but I in the four years that I've lived at this corner, I've never had trouble parking on the street or in the spaces, that we have available. There's always parking parking available, there.

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Thomas wells:, so I just. I don't think that there will be any concerns with with a reduced parking at this site.

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Thomas wells:, I also want to echo community cycles comments and those of others that that connection to the goose creek path there without the curb cut is, is really just..

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Thomas wells:, a terrible idea: I've contacted the city several times about that. There are already people frequently walking across that corner and it's in it's a bad corner to walk across because it's almost a blind corner,. When you come around that.

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Thomas wells:, that that corner there right at 29 and bluff. So if there's anything that can be done to improve pedestrian and bicycle access at that intersection, I think it would be really.

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Thomas wells: really great, I I hear what other people said, but it's not the developers problem. It's not planning boards problem, it's apparently nobody's problem, but it's certainly a problem for the people that live in and use this area.

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Thomas wells:, so I don't know what the right solution is. I called him we got some pedestrian signs put up there right outside the bicycle. Shop.

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Thomas wells:, which were great,, but I don't think it really- it really solves it.

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Thomas wells: yeah, it's late,. I don't need to take any more of your time,, but just.

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Thomas wells: want you all to know that as a as a resident and an owner nearby and somebody who's involved with the community that we support and.

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Thomas wells: welcome this project,. The lack of first for retail is not going to be an issue in the area,. The reduction in parking is going to be great, in my opinion,, so just 100% support.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her): great, thank you thomas make in europe.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her):, you may unmute.

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Macon cowles: good evening planning board games, making nicole's, 17th and broadway.

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Macon cowles:, as I mean 17th and maples, and I'm sorry listen. What before I get to the project, which I support, I just wanted to mention.

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Macon cowles: that the planning board is unique of all of the boards or commissions,. It is the only one where the charter provides.

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Macon cowles: that the chair of the planning board has the right to set the agenda for the planning board,, and I just mentioned that,, because a couple of things have come up tonight that really deserve to be..

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Macon cowles: to move in the right direction, one is to get the to move the elimination of this requirement regarding light tech funds, where you can't have.

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Macon cowles: shared unbundled, managed paid parking because a project gets light tech funds that should go on to our federal.

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Macon cowles:, what do you call it lobbying list so that we there's a new sheriff in town federally and maybe we can take care of some of these because.

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Macon cowles:, as all of you know, those some principles for parking are just so important, and they really they they're they're ones, that staff and planning board and council and tab have come up with as being a way to get really enlightened transportation system in the city and.

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Macon cowles:, the other thing that needs to go there, this this problem of not being able to have a curb cut legally because of our design and construction principles at the corner is just crazy.

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Macon cowles:. I think that it is a stunning achievement for the hp now turning to the the heart of my remarks that they are able on this 1.6 acre site, to.

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Macon cowles: develop 100 permanently affordable units,. We often forget that that the the the problems or the the obstacles that have to be overcome, to achieving affordable, housing,, whether.

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Macon cowles:, whatever percentage, it is the hers rating that has to be 50 or less the capital, improvement fees and boulder, which are so high.

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Macon cowles: the requirements of parking, particularly tuck under parking like we have here.

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Macon cowles: the requirement for sprinklers and the windows have deep reveals on them,. We all support these,, but they do make projects more expensive that there needs to be better materials. Would stoner brick on the outside.

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Macon cowles: the requirements of what sarah asked about the setback of the upper floors, his wedding cake, design, all of this,, including the height restrictions.,.

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Macon cowles: on this particular zoning district make the project more expensive, so, in light of our.

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Macon cowles: overwhelming need for permanently affordable housing for zero to 60% of am I,, as well as the overwhelming need also for housing for people who earn between 60 and $120,000 a year middle income. Housing is just acute in our town,, so thank goodness, we have.

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Macon cowles: projects coming through from time to time that fit this criteria. I'm particularly.

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Macon cowles:, I think the design for this site is particularly good. The permeability that has been built into the site with three very fine pedestrian entries into the heart of the.

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Macon cowles: space, the interior, that open space is wonderful,. This is like the pattern language talking about open spaces,. This is a classic use of open space,. It is sized right.

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Macon cowles: and you have that wonderful, sense., macon cowles: of coaching, the building from that corner and it needs a curb cut and.

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Macon cowles: harmonica, if I could have another 30 seconds for a related point.

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Macon cowles:, I have to get rid of some books and one of them is donald shoots: high cost of free parking. It's a $75 book.

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Macon cowles: and the first one of yours- and I include the staff on this- that emails me I'll, be glad to give it to you. It's a wonderful book about parking. Thank you very much,, and thanks so much for your service.

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cob,jean, gatza, moderator, (she/her):, okay, linear up,, you may unmute.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her):, hey you know. lynn, segal:. Once upon a time there was an an in an elephant.

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Lynn segal:, the ant is boulder housing partners,. The elephant is the city of boulder and their policy, where the planning board.

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Lynn segal:, it's counter intuitive.

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Lynn, segal: tonight,. You had a project that would have been great for this site,, but you gave up martha.

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Lynn, segal: and this site doesn't even give you three bedrooms.

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Lynn, segal:, martha had tons of bedrooms know why? Because they got one big friggin living room and one perfectly gorgeous quick kitchen. That was just remodeled.

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Lynn, segal: darling, shame on you.

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Lynn, segal:, on the one hand, you're doing one thing on the other hand, you're doing the opposite.

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Lynn, segal: it's an industrial complex for bill, colicky now bill,, you did a great job. That looks wonderful and all I mean I like european, affordable housing, better but.

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Lynn, segal: you know, and your boss and site: oh god,. I have to look at that building forever: the balsam ugly, sorry but geez and high fence, and that's what creates the model, the industrial complex for coburn.

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Lynn, segal: and the bride is the federal government lied tech that bribe is lighting and would lie tip comes you can't charge for parking.

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Lynn, segal:, what's not to get.

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lynn segal: to me, it feels like you guys, are like ted cruz, your shipping up to can kuhn when there's a disaster in texas in boulder in this situation.

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Lynn, segal: and you're in friggin can can.

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Lynn segal:, I heard you talking a lot tonight about what you want to do.

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Lynn, segal: and you have a unanimous vote for market house to be ruined the last good chance of housing in boulder. That same model can be used for all the fentanyl kids in boulder. All that you know therapy houses for the homeless, to get them back on board.

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Lynn segal:: this is not.

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lynn segal:. The way it should be, and you can do it just say: no unanimous decisions,, all the time, talk, talk, talk and then you both the opposite.

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Lynn, segal:, I don't understand you.

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lynn, segal:. You know you got a chance to make boulder into something.

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Lynn, segal: so do it. lynn, segal: it's as simple as doing it and yeah the parking spaces are $200,000 here and yeah. The landscapers are gonna have to live out of town and yeah,. This is a good situation here that the grocery workers at the retail workers can live. Here.

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Lynn segal: but they're the friggin it.

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Lynn segal:: this is all this. Other development.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her): well,. If you could wrap up, please.

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Just a second, my glasses.

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Lynn segal: my eyes can't go there on my head, sorry.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator (she/her): one last statement.

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Lynn, segal: and lynn segal:, you know.

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lynn, segal: hitler had a lot of people doing one thing you know: so.

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Lynn, segal: be different, because you are different and just say what you think.

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Lynn, segal:, we don't need to go back to hitler. We learned that with she went on.

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Lynn segal:, so let's try something different. Do some deep thinking about what you're actually producing in this town, which I've been here since on and off 1957 thank you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: all right.

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Cob,Jean gatza, moderator, (she/her):, yes, and nothing in the chat,. So I think we're we're through those who would like to address the board.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay. pb, harmon zuckerman:. You have three more minutes. If you want to robot anything, you heard during public comment.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, and we won't take much time just on the curb cut you know, obviously,, that would be great.

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Bill holicky, coburn applicant:. If we can make that work, technically,, because it would bring the bike path into that corner, so we'd love to see that there's any way that the transportation staff, if you're in a way to make that happen, we're all for it. It's all in one vessel.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, let me,! Let me ask you a few would,. If you would- and I don't I don't know if legal is going to agree with me- that we could even do this,, but would you voluntarily.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: agree to commitment, has a condition of approval, whereby upon redevelopment of 2860 2890.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: bluff street. I guess the across the street building to the south.

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Pb harmon, zuckerman: or any city project that would redevelop the path that you would.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: that you would.

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pb harmon zuckerman:, be obligated to cooperate and participate in that project, to the extent required to make the improvements on your side of the street.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: absolutely,. The only thing I would ask is just if you could just.

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Bill holicky,, coburn, applicant: condition it to staffs approval recommendation just because you know,, we were told that it's a problem,, so I don't want to be in a position where their conditions, as we have to do something instead says we can't do so. With the exception of that, we definitely want to participate in it.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay,, so planning board. You heard that we can make that a condition along those lines. If we choose to go that way, so that's it from the applicant side.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,. Thank you for your presentation. Let's deliberate now.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any general comments before we go into the three key issues.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: sarah.

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Pb sarah silver:, so I have a general comment, which has to do I'm going to go back to the concerns about the traffic issues.

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Pb sarah silver: and I guess, this is more of a question to staff or.

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Pb sarah silver: suggestion to consider just transforming.

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Pb sarah silver: bluff from 28th through the curve, all the way to belmont into a one way street,, which would reduce the danger of that curve,, which is probably not going away,, but could also reduce some of the challenges of traffic flow. Just a general thought.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, maybe andrew. If you can pass that on to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: transportation that'd be great yeah.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, david.

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Pb, david ensign: yeah. I think this is the subject that can be considered a general thought. Right.

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Pb, david ensign:, yeah, well I'll, just piggyback on that and say, well,, not only one way, maybe, or whatever,, but this is not a thoroughfare,. This is a place where people should drop down to zero miles per hour.

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Pb, david ensign: and my vision for that curve, would be to make a walking plaza. We could make pearl street mall that shouldn't be a car oriented space.

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Pb, david ensign:, raise, you, know, raise it up and make the whole thing of walking pause all the way around that curve, and I know that the dcs doesn't have that. But I figured I'd make the speech before we go into the details of approving this fabulous fabulous.

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Pb, david ensign: project, so. pb,, david ensign: thank you, community cycles. Thank you, megan. I totally agree with you. I'm there was in the.

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Pb, david ensign:, just one last thing in the city council retreat this year,. They have proposed that tab people come to our concept reviews,, so if more people are yelling for that at concept review,, I know we brought this up in june.

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Pb, david ensign:, perhaps we could figure out ways to make these things happen. If we have more voices from the transportation side kind of seeing how these things can dovetail into these projects.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah david. I like your idea and I think,, even if you did allow for vehicular traffic along bluff between 28th and 29th and around the curve.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, it could be a voter if it could be,. You know paved in such a way that made it clear that it was a pedestrian plaza that delivery vehicles, and you know occasional employees.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: could use, I think, there's there's probably some parking issues around the buildings back in there,. That would have to be addressed,, but you know, at some point when it redeveloped that could be pretty cool. Okay, any other general comments before we go to key issues.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: alright,, so the first key issue has to do with whether the project meets the applicable site review criteria which,, as you all know, by now, can be found in section nine dash to dash 14 h of the boulder revised code.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: I'll take and.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, then we got a thumbs up from sarah,, meaning that it meets the applicable site review criteria, david. Do you want to speak to the key issue.

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Pb, david ensign:, oh yeah, I'll just say that I think that we've seen huge improvements, since the concept review, lots of things addressed. Open space has been fine tuned. It's consistent with both the land use, general business and the bms zoning.

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Pb, david ensign:, with the exception of the ground floor, which we'll talk about later setbacks, look great they're a little bit over. What's required, and I am problem with the third floor setbacks and I have no problem with height height.

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Pb, david ensign: proposal so yes,, I would say across the board, yes.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: does anybody else have anything specific that they want to call out about how this project meets the criteria or failed they're up.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: to 100.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah. I think this project does meet these criteria, at the same time,. I think I would just like to make it known that, in general, when, when we're asked to make.

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Pb, john gerstle: changes of the state,. I think that is interesting to be informed about how this fits into the overall picture in in boulder, for example, whether.

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Pb, john gerstle:, we are causing a black or commercial space or more expensive retail space, by eliminating what would normally be called for, so, while.

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Pb,, john gerstle:, I think this is an appropriate project in this location. In general, I think when, when these changes are being saw, we should be looking at the big picture as well.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: sarah.

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Pb sarah silver: I'd like to just piggyback on what unsaid.

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Pb sarah silver:, this project looks great and it's also going to achieve something. It's going to continue a.

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Pb sarah silver: process of gentrification gen gentrification from a lot of commercial space too much more residential space over time. We just know that's. What's going to happen.

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Pb sarah silver: and there are a lot of locally owned small businesses back in that little area,, and I think we just need to be thinking about how to ensure that some of that space does not just get gobbled up. By.

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Pb sarah silver: by 100% residential development back there and I know that's a longer term question,, but I think we need to keep that in mind..

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah, and I will just take you back before I call and lisa, but provide the flip side to that coin, which is.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you know the strip malls in that area. That's like my absolute favorite and probably only place to go in boulder for a plethora of different ethnic grocery stores,. You know, there's a there's: an asian grocery across the street there's mediterranean around the corner.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I'm forgetting one already.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: lisa, maybe you remember,, but there are three there's. Definitely a vietnamese.

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Pb, lisa smith: eastern one.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah, there's a middle eastern one and it's it's well. It is mediterranean because it's also got greek and turkish and stuff like that. So.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, but yeah, it's really cool. You know, there's a fish tank store and stuff like that and to have in that area, the cleaners and stuff to have more residents in a place that really it's a place that generally people have to drive to. I think that'll be good for the local business.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, lisa.

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Pb, lisa smith: um yeah, so just to kind of come off of what other folks have said. I'm ever appreciated this project,, since we first saw it and kind of come along and I think.

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Pb, lisa smith: good changes were made,. I agree with you know some of the recommendations around looking to the curb cut when and if that's possible, but yeah. I think it meets the criteria and I'm excited by the work that bhp and cover and have done on this particular project.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah I'll just say,. I think it meets the criteria and, to the extent that we can condition it to meet the criteria. Better.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: policy, neighborhood streets and alleys conductivity would be served by the the curb cutting in action to the goose creek tap connector, and maybe we can craft, a condition.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: would call for, for that connection, to be made better with a curb cut at some point in the future. If the city supports it and if the redevelopment occurs.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any other thoughts on tsu one.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: move on to.

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pb harmon zuckerman:, just the proposed vehicular parking reduction meet the criteria in specifically the site review criterion, nine to 14 h2 l.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: applicants requesting 33% partnered up with 32.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: thoughts.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: hello, peter., pb, harmon, zuckerman:, hello,, peter.

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Pb, peter vitale:, is it even possible to add more parking without going underground.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I don't know what do you think about the question of whether the parking reduction meets the site, review criteria for parking, reduction.

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Pb, peter vitale:, I find it acceptable.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: good anybody, else.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: know david. You want to put some more meat on that bone.

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Pb, david ensign: there right,. I want to just say that I thought the pizza is.

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Pb,, david ensign: ideas and and the thing and the things that you brought up earlier with regards to accommodating people who rely on their vehicles for their livelihood were so very important. And.

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Pb,, david ensign:, I think that there's something that I hope, bhp you know can can take away, is just kind of a general comment for bhp management of properties,, where people have needs.

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Pb, david ensign:, so I'm not sure that that that I consider that something uniquely tied to this particular proposal,. But I do think that,. As you accept people into the you know, from the lottery, and as you.

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Pb, david ensign: match people up with with properties. It's really very, very insightful. To note that you know,, not everybody can can just.

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Pb, david ensign: parking productions can affect people in different ways,, so bad,, but in general pocket of the product parking reduction is very appropriate and I love the fact that he co passes part of.

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Pb, david ensign: the program and are part of the proposal and there's going to be ev charging in the parking lot,. So I think I would support this for sure.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah any other thoughts on key issue. To.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, looks like planning board feels that, in general,. It meets that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: criteria on for parking reduction left tissue is the proposed ground floor, residential youth, consistent with the youth review criteria and they're in.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so business main street areas.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: generally require first floor retail but, in certain cases through use review. That requirement can be waived,. What do we think of that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, so peter. pb, harmon, zuckerman: peter.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, I feel very comfortable with not with this particular case,, where it really is not that critical. That area does have quite a bit of other smaller businesses,. So I think it's just the location.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: is, is perfectly legitimate and appropriate not to have it on the fourth floor and first floor.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: thank you, peter.

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Pb, peter vitale:, I'm totally fine with it,. If you can't see retail it dies.

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Pb, peter vitale:- and this is not going to be seen by enough cars to support it,, so it will be an albatross around the projects. Napkin it'll.

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Pb, peter vitale: take away what could be housing.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any other thoughts.

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Pb, david ensign: yeah. pb,, david ensign:. We had this time this conversation during concept review and came to pretty much the same conclusion so, and I would also point out that we're not displacing any any commercial since it was a health club, so yeah.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay, any other thoughts, or does anybody want to make a motion.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: for peta.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, it's it's. Nobody makes it that I'll make the motion that we approve. I don't have the motion in front of me, though,. I don't have the.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. So if you have your computer at page, three of 74 has in a box in the middle and there's just emotion, language.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and if not, we can put up the motion. Language.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: or somebody I was on the edge of.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, getting it there, okay. pb, lupita d, montoya: yes,. So I like to make the motion to approve side, review and use review case. L. You are 2020 dash, 000 38 incorporate into stuff memorandum, and they attach criteria checklist as fine as a fact and subject to the conditions of approval recommended in this def memorandum.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: all right,. Well, thanks for putting that up,, you can take down the the recommendation, please and do we have a second.

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Pb, david ensign:, a second. pb harmon, zuckerman: okay, david and simon seconded any discussion to the motion.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: all right, then.

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pb harmon zuckerman:. The planning boards motion is to approve site review and use review case number.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: incorporating incorporating the step memorandum in the attached criteria. Checklist is finding the fact and subject to the conditions of approval recommended as a staff memorandum.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: take a vote on this,, starting with devotion, maker lupica.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: hi.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: david. hi., pb, harmon, zuckerman:, john., hi., pb, harmon, zuckerman:, lisa.

A

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Pb harmon zuckerman: sarah.

A

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Pb harmon zuckerman: peter.

A

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Pb harmon zuckerman: hi okay,, so it passes seven, nothing congratulations.

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Bill holicky,, coburn applicant:, thank you planning, board,, and I just wanted to mention,. We had a press andrew and the service due to all the coven stuff, and just thank him for that. The project is a lot better, do his input and help. So, thanks to everyone, and thanks to you, tonight.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: great.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: job andrew.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: and thank you to staff into the board,. We appreciate you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: you're, welcome., pb, harmon, zuckerman: alright,, just let.

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Pb, david ensign:, your eyes, look amazing.

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Pb, david ensign:, your eyes, look amazing in those glasses, they're, bright, blue.,.

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Laura sheinbaum, boulder housing, partners, applicant: because my husband went to bed. So I'm like now,, like in a different location.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: all right,. Well, let's, let's move on to matters.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, it's 1028, so.

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pb, harmon zuckerman: we're getting close to where we're supposed to be ending the meeting and technically,. We need a vote to start another agenda item. So can we just do a thumb vote if we want to finish the meeting with through matters and debrief.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: ok,. I see a majority alright so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: do we have any any matters from the planning director to start with.

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Charles ferro: just waiting to see. pb harmon zuckerman:, any response.

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Charles ferro: was just going to see if jacob was going to chime in, but I don't think we have any matters from staff. This evening.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, anything from the attorney's office, oh.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: I take a.

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Cob jacob lindsey: good, so I was just reading my unmute button you're on mute, here.

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Cob jacob lindsey:, the darkness, nope. cob, jacob lindsey:, no matters for me still here and thank you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: thanks, for being here appreciate: that.

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pb, harmon zuckerman:. How about you hello,? Is there anything from the city, attorney's office.

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Hella pannewig assistant city attorney: for me.

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Hella pannewig assistant city, attorney:, okay., pb, harmon zuckerman:. How about planning board do we have any matters from planning board.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the pita.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: yes,, we had a question regarding again notices going on to renters. I thought we keep bringing the bringing this up and again and the.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: a and the packet that we got the was no mention on notice, I mean it is the mention of notice to property owners near the project. But, again,, the there was no notice to the renters, and I think I just would like to know if, if there's any movement regarding that.

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Charles ferro:, so right now, the.

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Charles ferro: council, we are right now the code still requires that notification be sent to property owners within 600 feet of the site,. I know that the board included that, in their annual letter to counsel counsel, didn't direct staff to take up any code changes to that effective. I come in here.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, and I I mentioned it in a relatively smarmy fashion,. When I made my presentation, to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. The council.- pb harmon zuckerman:. So something about we've been asking for this for five years,. I don't remember.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya:, so harmon, parliament so,, is it appropriate to say,. I will not vote for anything that does not include that is there,, something that can be down like two.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: forces thing to be done,, because I don't I don't see what the problem is,. I really don't. So, unless there's something hidden there that that that.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: that I'm not aware of,. I would like to be educated about it, because I to me something that shouldn't take too much.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, but then again I'm ignoring about this. It's just to me, something that is fair and you should just be brought up so long,. It just makes no sense to me is like keep adding two plus two and keep getting three, knowing that it should be a for.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: pizza I. pb harmon zuckerman:. As a fellow planning board member,, I would not recommend that you stop voting as a protest.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. We don't do voting hunger, strikes.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and I don't know if that would make the difference that you'd want it.

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pb,, lupita d, montoya: to. pb harmon zuckerman:, but I would suggest that there's a soft power that you have on planning board that you can explore.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you can call any city council member who you think will listen in and just asked for some time and speak to them and tell them how it affects our decision. Making.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, and why it would be better if they would recommend or if they would say what you know proposed code changes or if they would direct staff to make them,. But I think you can just use use some of the.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: skills that you have persuasive skills that you have in the connections that you've made in the position that you have and see. If you can, you know, get a campaign going.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, I was being facetious,, but I just thought.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: I made at least one person laugh so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you got me laughing.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, sarah, he was laughing card over.

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pb, david ensign: thank you.

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Pb, david ensign:, can I just want to jump in. I am we made a home gym and I have a ipad in that gym. So I can like watch city council meetings, sometimes,, so I actually watched most of the retreat.

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Pb,, david ensign: or the you know the strategy session in january, and it was a uniquely difficult year to add things to the work plan. Then there's a lot of of of.

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Pb, david ensign: there's a lot of rigidity right now, because of all the things around covert and social equity, that we're dealing with right at the moment,. So I think it was a uniquely difficult year.

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Pb, david ensign: you're right,. We have asked for this like the fifth year in a row,, because we've asked every year I've been on planning board. So hopefully we can.

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Pb, david ensign:, maybe as things loosen up, find a little opening to get that address,. But I don't think that it even came up because there were just bigger fish to fry..

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Pb, david ensign: in the meeting,, so I just wanted to say that that I did appreciate that at least we got it in there again and we'll do it again next year, if it isn't done.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: right: I forgot about this being covered year,, so I.

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Pb, david ensign:. Thank you for that reminder. We're playing good work on the other hand, work plan is sort of a rigid structure that we have that only gets visited once a year,, and it does make it hard for us sometimes so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you know there. pb, sarah silver:, so you all may have gone over this and matters in the last meeting which I missed. But I'm curious if either charles or jacob could highlight for us what components of our letter the planet, the city council, did put on their work. Plan.

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Charles ferro:, I think,, and you know jacob- can feel free to chime in really the main for us, plus to stay the course on the council. Priority code, changes.

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Charles ferro: that have been lined out so community benefit and site review criteria,, as well as the continuation of the us standards.

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Charles ferro: and tables completion of the east, boulder sub community plan and continued work on see yourself,. I think, in recognition of the fact that we've had staffing reductions due to coven.

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Charles ferro: budget constraints that if we can continue continue on with the existing council priority code code changes of next year, that that should be our focus.

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Pb sarah silver:, so those priority code changes are the use table or.

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Charles ferro:, you simple use tables and community benefits. Okay, okay.

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Pb sarah silver: great thank you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: any other matters from the board.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, I didn't have when we did agenda,, I didn't. I don't think I had any charles. You don't remember me mentioning anything. It's kind of late.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, actually any. pb, david ensign:. One thing we talked about harmon was we do at some point, have to discuss. City council would like tab to be involved in our concept plans next in the next year,, and so we kind of have to figure out how that's going to work and also,. I believe.

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Pb, david ensign: dab of involvement at some level.

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Charles ferro:, it's always going to touch on that calendar check,, because we have your mark some time coming. Up.

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Cindy spence:, I was going to touch on that too.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay, great. Well then, let's move on to.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: calendar check will do that. First.

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Charles ferro:, so we have cindy, do we still have the bias and mike regression workshop on the 25th.

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Cindy spence: yeah, no, I was going to let you know that the fire and micro aggression workshop the dates for that are definitely march. 25 is part one.

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Cindy spence: and april 22 is part two,, and it will be from five to nine and it's going to be a joint session or joint workshop you're going to be doing it with hiv, the housing board and hr, see which I don't know what that is.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: committee.

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Cindy spence:, thank you. So it's going to be um it'll be.

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Cindy spence:, a joint workshop, and I think you're going to really enjoy it because I've done it myself.

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Cindy spence:, excellent yeah, it's fascinating so and I believe I sent you all the link for those dates, but I'll send reminders to you,, and then I also want to let you know. I sent you a pole and I've heard back from just over half of you have her back and four of you.

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Cindy spence: that they're tentatively on april 5,, which is a monday,. They would like to they're, proposing a planning board and tab joint meeting just for two hours and it's not in stone, yet,. But that's the proposed date.

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Cindy spence:, so I just I haven't heard from the pizza, harmon or peter if you're on date, on board with those with that date.

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Charles ferro: and sunday, that's for discussion of the east boulder sub community plan, right.

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Cindy spence:, that's correct, yes.

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Pb, peter vitale: april 5, it was holding out for.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, the I wouldn't expect to hear. pb harmon zuckerman: from me.

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pb, harmon zuckerman:. I don't I don't you try.

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Charles ferro:, as part of the calendar check.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay.

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pb, peter vitale:, eastern monday.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: to be my me again, the time for it.

Q

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Cindy spence: proposed at six o'clock six to eight.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: oh,, that okay yeah, that is.

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Cindy spence: not definite but.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: in the evening, yes,, I might have something earlier,, which is in the works, but yeah. I think I think at that time I can't okay.

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Cindy spence: and harmon. Are you joking about not hearing from you or.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: no,, no cuz it'll be after.

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pb harmon zuckerman:, the selection of a new member.

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Cindy spence: yeah, I I'm sorry yeah.

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Charles ferro:, the board and commission interviews with council are slated to wrap up on the 11th of march,, so that makes herman's last meeting march forth.

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Pb, peter vitale: yeah or you can have your own giant chess.

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Cindy spence: game,: are you with that date,? Are you, okay, with that.

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Pb, peter vitale:- I can do that it's easter monday, what better day to do it? Yeah, according to my calendar and said he's tremendous.

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Cindy spence:, you know for sure, of course, when it's a definite.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: it nothing but joy sessions. For me after planning boards, over.

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Charles ferro: so, speaking of march, we have some big nights.

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Charles ferro:, herman's last meeting will be a very long night.

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Charles ferro: will be will be doing the water view site and you serve you so that one is arapahoe which has kind of been in the works for a really long time. So.

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Charles ferro: and then on the 18th we have the hill hotel.

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Charles ferro: and then six I'm sorry on april 1 we have a concept plant application, for.

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Charles ferro:, some pretty significant changes to the campus at ball: aerospace out on east arapahoe. So a couple of big items coming before.

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Pb, sarah silver:, I'm sorry, charles you said march 4 is water view.

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Charles ferro:, correct, oh.

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Pb sarah silver:, I have, I have in my calendar, that's one of the nights for the board and commission interviews.

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Charles ferro:, it is.

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pb sarah silver:, so we have a.

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pb sarah silver:. We have a planning board meeting the same night as as board and commission interviews, correct, okay.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: just to be clear,. Those are only interviewing candidates for the open seat on planning board. We don't have to be part of those.

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Pb sarah silver: no,. I know I like I like to listen and.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, oh ok.,.

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Pb, david ensign: ok, put the planning board ones on a different night,, so we can just tune in and see those and then nothing about it.

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Charles ferro:, yeah and I'll double check and see. Sarah, that's actually a good point. Typically they'll do the planning board because they're always on a thursday night, but they typically try to pick one word: the board's not meeting so.

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Charles ferro: I'll double check and see if the planning board interviews will be held on the 11th.

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Pb sarah silver:. Now that would be awesome. Thank you. So much.

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Charles ferro:, so I think that's kind of everything that's coming up in the next month or so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: okay,, so any planning board members have to talk about calendar issues for us absences that are expected or anything.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, okay, debrief anybody want to debrief at all around what we did tonight, what we heard.

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Pb sarah silver:, that's like to say so,. I think it was very interesting tonight, how many.

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Pb, sarah silver: big ideas or thematic ideas were brought up that weren't actually specific to a particular project,, but the project catalyzed some thinking and I'm just curious,. How do we,? Where do we.

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Pb sarah silver: park those ideas, so that we can revisit them.

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Pb, sarah silver:: how do we park those ideas.

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Pb, peter vitale:, your diary.

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Pb sarah silver:, I mean I just I just feel like we, you know, there are, we do get we our job,. Most of the time is looking at specific projects,, but over time themes emerge that come out when we're looking at a specific project,, and I just wouldn't want us to lose track of those themes.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: pizza.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: um., pb,, lupita d montoya:. You know that actually is a good idea that maybe being just identifying one or two that that maybe we even recognize him whether we agree on it.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: in and then sort of like whether we park in until we have a retreat or select one of the evenings when we do have a little bit of more open time to revisit it.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, because I agree that sometimes things come up and and not to.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: regularly go back to start from zero, but be better prepared that if we work to face a similar issue that we are in a better position, because we have.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: talked through it at least a little bit more, and I can see, can we can be more more effective, next time, and I can think of one of the one of the things that came up tonight, for example, for me,. The whole idea of.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya: holding, for example, the applicant accountable for things that I really a result of the choices on how they want to go forward with a project,, namely you know the issue. There's noises.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: with a noise regarding you, know, tenants, or whether the tenant should be responsible or or or of the of the owner or management company or or I joined responsibility to me, that was a very important topic,, so I don't know.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:. That might be something that I will suggest and I'm sure that we're all the ones,, but that one was for me, was.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, because I came to the meeting thinking you know. I wonder I'm the only one who thinks that we need to,. We need to have the.

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Pb, lupita d, montoya:, the the management company or the developer, being a little bit more responsible with you know what may happen at this property, considering at least from my perspective, how clear, he was that he really was problematic for the neighborhood.

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Pb, lupita d montoya: because we were making some concessions that was really.

Q

Pb, lupita d montoya: not necessarily serving the community better, and I wanted to minimize that negative impact that was my biggest concern,. So one one of them was don't let the.

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Pb, lupita d montoya:, the company of the hook, that is, sleep,, because I think that we can get better projects when they realize that they are going to be held accountable when they make choices and the way that they bring the projects to us anyway. So I've said enough.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: I'll chime, in.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: with you can go first, if you want.

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Pb, lisa smith:, I was just gonna, say that I appreciate that coming up and that's something that I think we got to really dig in on when we're putting our letter together. For council.-.

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Pb, lisa smith: and its attention that.

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pb,, lisa smith:. I regularly feel you know we would just this one side, where I'm like. Okay, want to like stick to the narrowness of the questions that our hands and not have this meeting,, and I know it's 1045 not have the meeting go to midnight and.

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Pb, lisa smith:, you know, stay on task, and all of that, and at the same time.

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Pb, lisa smith:. There are these broader values and this public trust that is embodied in us as individuals and us as a board.

F

Pb, lisa smith: that,. I think we have to bring to bear on our votes in our decisions and things that we make, or even if we find that we're constrained.

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Pb, lisa smith:, by the terms of what we're voting on and by the code that you know that we do then bring forward to counsel or flag for them.

F

Pb, lisa, smith: and so yeah I just want to say,. I really appreciate you bringing that up, because I don't want it to get too too often to policy as fun, as that is to talk about.

F

Pb, lisa smith:, but I also don't want us to lose that because that's kind of the importance of why we're doing the work, and I think why we volunteer time in this way, so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I think it's a it's a tough place to be on planning board, because most of what we do is closed,, I judicial and the applications come to us.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, and so you know we don't get to choose what applications come to us,, and so you know I hear members of the public, saying well, why don't you just deny that it could have been better.

C

Pb harmon zuckerman: well,, you know we have to,, we have to judge a project based on whether it meets the criteria that are in front of us and their legal consequences. If we don't.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, and so you know if we get to pick what was coming in our direction,. Maybe the public faith in us that that we have that power would be well founded.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, but I think the faith is is that the public has this poorly founded, because we don't have the right to pick what applications come to us,. And so I heard.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: the two planning board members who complained about the market house, not being the right project. I also saw.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: them,, you know, put their pants on and vote, based on the criteria when the time came, and then I heard a member of the public raked over the coals for doing it. Well, why didn't you vote your conscience.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, because your conscience doesn't have to do with the criteria and so.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: you're not doing your job. If you just vote your conscience you're actually violating your your job as a planning board member. If all you do is vote on things, you like.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and,, and so that's you know, that's the bind that we're in and I don't think a lot of people appreciate that and my approach over five years on planning board has been to hew to the criteria.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: 95% of the time and 5% of the time I let people see my heart, and I hope that means they listened to me more. When I speak about the stuff that matters to me, like you, know.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, buying stuff and contracting with local own businesses, minority owned businesses and women owned businesses with the vast buying power of our capital improvement, program.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I just don't think, there's any reason why we shouldn't really focus our money on the people who need it, who live nearby.

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Pb harmon, zuckerman: and and attracting people who would make our community more diverse and more resilient by giving them more opportunities to come and get work here and sell goods here and then eventually, move in here become neighbors to us. So.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, you know there's that there's that strategy,, the 95 five strategy that I have, and then the other pieces. If you're going to be on the board long enough to be here for the next.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: met them. The next comprehensive plan update that's when you really get to start talking about direction,, and you know those big items.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, and you know it would be great if planning board could kind of you know, ahead of the comp plan. Update, spend six months,, you know, having three or four meetings. You know every six weeks or something to go over the policies and goals.

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Pb harmon, zuckerman: and sort of pre pre run the comp plan update,, but I don't think that's going to work, because that would be like starting our own whole process. So, to the extent that you want to do work on your own time.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:. I would suggest that each individual planning board member who thinks they're going to be around for the next comp plan. Update.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: go through the goals and policies and pick the ones that you want to argue for invent ones that you want to advocate for and come to the come to the gunfight loaded when, when we start talking about what's going in the next comp plan.

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Pb harmon zuckerman:, that's my advice.

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Pb sarah silver:, so I think that's good advice. I might be more of an.

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Pb sarah silver: balance, but then the 95 five,. But I do think that that to come back full circle, to the to what I started with, which was some ideas that percolate up from our.

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Pb sarah silver: criteria based decision making,. I actually believe strongly that we have the great good fortune of being able to.

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Pb sarah silver: see so much coming through the pipeline and trying to evaluate each project,, not just within the boulder valley, comp plan,, but also within land use code. Criteria.

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Pb sarah silver:, but also within the totality of the city right um and I do feel like there- are issues that arise that we can see,, because we do this every two weeks, year after year, and it does behoove us to try to.

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Pb sarah silver: articulate those issues and bring them forward when we can using our voice,, whether it's as a board or individually with members of city council or with staff- and I I you know- I we don't have to do it as a as a whole or as a team, but.

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Pb sarah silver:, I think, we,, one of the one of the.

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Pb sarah silver: great opportunities we have is to identify where we can see,. There are voids or vacuums or gaps.

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Pb sarah silver: that are not land use code gaps,, but rather sort of how to the gaps in how do we get this,? How does the city get from here to there.

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Pb sarah silver:: what are the tools that it's missing? I'm kind of piggybacking on stuff david has said before,, but like what are the tools that we're missing and,- and this is a great platform for kind of for discussing some of that.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: in one place where you can kind of get away with it, sarah certain concept plan where, where your left constrained.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: by quality, traditional rules and procedures,. You know,, and you can kind of get some of your big ideas out there just out there, and you repeat them a few times and see if you can get other board members to to adopt them as well and staff..

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Pb harmon zuckerman: john, you wanted to say something.

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Pb, john gerstle: yeah, I two things. One is that I agree that concept plans, seem to me to be the logical time when we can talk about these big picture. Conceptual type.

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Pb, john gerstle: issues that that we're more constrained with on on the wayside conditional stuff. The other was just to respond to your comments on the comp plan updates. I realized, now that I've been involved in four of them.

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Pb, john gerstle:, both because I was a long time on the county planning commission before coming to the city and I think that's another element that is absolutely made for these discussions of the big. You know conceptual issues,. The big picture concerns that sarah mentioned.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: anybody else.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: david.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: can't hear you.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: yeah there you go. pb, david ensign: that we had some sort of crickets plane over our sound system. Oh yeah, I'll just I'll just remind us that we actually people come to these meetings. They listen to what we say so, when we do our five to 15%.

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Pb, david ensign: speeches and and have the aha moments that we know that we can, for example,. You know whether or not landlords or tenants.

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Pb, david ensign: shoulder certain responsibilities. There's a lot more than just planning board members that will go into making those decisions and a lot of legal things and.

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Pb, david ensign: things that are out of our our scope, but,, but when we have the aha moments, I think that we do have a platform and people listen, and then we, if we feel strongly enough,, we can have our one conversations with with community leaders.

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Pb,, david ensign: and a lot of people leave planning board and go run for city council army. Now, just so you know, we know what where people will take their skill set next, so just saying.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: to folks want to let david have last word, or does somebody want to jump in and add up, and before I close out.

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Charles ferro:, I would just add, that.

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charles ferro:, will start working on a date for planning board retreat and we'll start working on an onboarding plan for a new member. So I'll start working with cindy and some dates on that for probably april.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: thanks charles.

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pb, harmon zuckerman:, anything else., pb, harmon, zuckerman:, hey well,, so you know,. We had a really hard job. Tonight.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: major us review.

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pb harmon zuckerman:, was the biggest one,, the biggest ones we've had 49 members of the public commented last month. And, and I think staff did an amazing job, putting together some very,, very complicated conditions.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: surprisingly,, the applicant was mostly cool with it, and I think we did a pretty good job tuning them. Up.

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Pb harmon zuckerman: and worked well together again, another tough one, big use and site reviews. So thanks for doing what you do and being so collegial and so good at it, and thanks to staff as well, so going to gavel, us out, can I.

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Pb, peter vitale:, I everybody.