►
Description
City of Charleston Ad Hoc Budget Advisory Committee 10/7/21
B
B
Amen,
I
thank
you
all
for
for
for
your
service.
So
most
of
this
here
discussion
is
going
to
be
led
once
again
by
amy
wharton,
our
our
leader
on
finance
department
requests.
I
think
she
starts
with
and
I
think
we're
all
interested
amy,
particularly
to
see
what
we're,
what
you're
seeing
for
preliminary
revenue
projections
so
take
it
away.
A
Good
afternoon
so
today
I'm
just
going
to
go
over
some
of
the
the
departmental
requests
that
we
didn't
go
over.
We
didn't
have
present
to
you,
the
smaller
ones,
just
real
quick
and
I
sent
you
the
master
list
last
night.
I
think
so.
You
could
look
at
them
more
in
detail
if
you'd,
like
so
for
my
department.
A
Records
management
because
we
are
digitizing
everything
and
it's
a
huge
project
and
we
need
some
help.
I
think
she
started
needing
some
help.
Getting
that
done
so
total
request
increase
in
her
in
her
request
this
year
was
71
000,
which
mostly
is
for
that
one
position:
executive
municipal
court:
they
had
an
increase
of
about
97
000,
most
of
which
was,
or
some
of
it,
was
for
restoring
to
pandemic
cuts
to
pre-pin
debit
cuts.
Sorry
office
supplies,
membership,
dues
and
publications.
A
Things
like
that
that
we
cut
some
drastically
last
year,
they're
also
asking
for
cubicles,
they're,
old
and
they're
falling
apart
and
she's
asked
for
those
in
the
past.
She
did
not
ask
for
them
last
year,
just
knowing
with
the
pandemic
are
decreasing
revenue,
so
she
asked
for
that
again
this
year.
So
that's
the
majority
of
her
request.
A
D
D
C
A
You're
welcome.
I
could
check
my
which
sometimes
it
flips
on
me
in
my
microphone
too.
So
just
tell
me,
if
you're
still
having
trouble
and
I'll
play
with
it,
more
okay
and
so
executive,
continued
corporation
council
they're
just
asking
for
a
paralegal
position,
which
they
they'll
need
to
work
on
the
foia
stuff,
because
they've
adjusted
since
susan
left
in
terms
of
what
their
duties
are
and
really
kind
of
lost
a
position
because
of
susan.
So
it's
probably
a
necessary
position.
The
mayor's
office
of
children,
youth
and
family
just
increases
to
pre-pandemic.
A
It's
mostly
what
most
departments
are
asking
for.
They
also
were
asking
for
some
travel
and
training
money
to
go
to
the
youth
volunteer
corps
summit
and
also
for
move
my
thing
over
and
then
also
for
community
education
for
the
the
two
new
programs
that
they
have:
the
mentoring
consortium
and
also
the
bank
on
charleston
initiative
and
then
a
little
bit
of
an
increase
for
first
day
of
school
initiative.
A
Let
me
know
if
I'm
going
too
fast
or
if
you
have
questions
cultural
affairs.
Their
total
increase
in
request
was
about
44
500.
A
lot
of
that
was
because
we
had
previously
given
them
community
assistance
grants,
which
we
said
we
were
going
to
stop
doing
that
just
budget
for
them.
So
the
majority
of
that
is
because
of
that
request.
A
And
then
housing
community
development
they're
asking
for
a
lot
of
positions.
So
we
they
have
got
the
housing
construction
project
manager
position
that
we
asked
it
was
kind
of
a
mid-year
ad
and
we
asked
them
to
cover
it
with
a
grant
with
the
knowledge
that
eventually
would
we
would
cover
it
in
the
general
fund.
So
we're
trying
to
do
that
in
2022..
F
A
Well,
we
have
done
you
know
most
of
the
cdbg
grant
money.
Those
positions
I
think
it
is
that
are-
are
funded
by
the
general
fund.
Now
it's
just
a
home
program
that
you
haven't
accomplished
that
yet
and
that
that's
what
those
programs
are,
those
that's
what
those
positions
are
funded
because
of
the
home
program.
A
A
Recreation,
many
of
their
requests
also
were
to
restore
line
items
to
free
pandemic
levels,
employee
travel
and
training
traffic,
that's
first,
the
swim
team
and
the
gymnastic
programs,
professional
contractual
services,
help
with
special
events
and
camps.
Now
that
they're
becoming
fully
operational,
some
awards
and
also
for
overtime
and
then
they're
asking
for
two
positions:
two
part-time
life
guard
positions
in
two
part-time
water
safety
instruction
instructors
and
those
are
the
staffing
levels
are
that
are
determined
really
by
dhec.
So
when
those
positions
are
asked,
those
are
kind
of
life
safety.
A
A
And
then,
oh,
I
guess
I
had
that
twice
sorry,
the
non-capital
equipment
ada,
lift
at
james
island
pool
and
also
the
mlk
pool,
and
to
replace
a
vacuum
at
her
hazel
pool
and
then
additional
cleaning
and
generatorial
supplies.
Obviously
they
need
those
for
just
to
keep
us
clean
for
the
pandemic
and
total
increase
was
156
thousand
dollars.
A
Traffic
and
transportation
they
would
like
to
convert
one
position
into
a
superintendent
position
that
oversees
signs
and
marketing
staff
that
are
asking
for
a
traffic
safety
inspector.
They
have
increased
and
changed
their
right-of-way
permit
fees
so
that
those
fees
will
cover
that
position.
They're
also
asking
for
a
permit
clerk
to
help
with
those
right-of-way
permits
and
then.
G
A
And
they're
asking
to
to
restore
some
line
items
to
pre-pandemic
level
levels
as
well
for
signs,
they're,
painting
and
marking
supplies,
small
hand,
tools
over
time,
equipment
repairs
those
types
of
things,
and
then
they
did
ask,
I
think
councilmember
wearing.
It
was
an
additional
fifty
thousand
dollars
for
the
traffic
calming
program.
A
They're
also
asking
some
for
some
machines
and
equipment
on
their
white
paint,
thermal
plastic
kettle
and
trailer.
We
can
get
this
on
lease
purchase,
but
it's
it's
outdated
and
not
doing
what
it
needs
to
do
a
hand
liner
thermoplastic
machine
which
is
easier
for
them
to
use
on
the
smaller,
more
narrow
streets,
a
traffic
line,
remover
a
work
zone,
trailer
that
will
also
act
as
a
safety
barrier
barrier
for
their
workers
and
then
some
traffic
counters
and
then
they're,
asking
for
a
small
increase
in
employee
travel
and
training
as
well.
A
Traffic
timing
study
on
daniel
island,
which
is
about
60
000,
replacing
damaged
traffic
signal
bases
along
those
areas
listed
here.
A
meeting
street
from
romney
to
broad
east
bay
streets
september,
clark
parkway.
They
begin
falling
in
west
ashley
circle
and
that's
about
forty
thousand
dollars
and
then
the
decorative
mass
signal
at
medium
broad
street
for
sixty
thousand
dollars
and
again.
F
F
A
F
F
D
A
A
D
A
You're
welcome
so
next
week
we'll
go
through
mayor's
office,
police,
fire
and
public
service,
because
there's
some
things
that
we're
still
working
on
with
them,
that
we
just
need
to
circle
back
and
bring
to
you
and
then
enterprise
funds
as
well
and
we'll
start
looking
at
recommendations
and
trying
to
prioritize
things
so
expenditures
our
current
estimate
without
the
additional
request.
So
this
would
just
be
base
budget.
It
includes
everything
from
the
department's
2021
budget,
excluding
one-time
expenditures
or
initiatives.
It
includes
fact
of
life
and
life
safety
items
and
any
contract
price
increases.
A
The
current
draft
budget
includes
208.6
million
dollars
in
expenditures
and
transfers
up
for
the
general
fund
and
30.6,
almost
7
million
in
expenses
and
transfers
out
for
the
enterprise
fund,
and
this,
like
I
said
this
is
just
base
budget,
not
all
those
requests
we
just
went
over
and
the
ones
that
you've
heard
from
all
the
larger
departments.
It
doesn't
include
those
numbers
at
all
so
right
now,
total
expenditures,
239
three
looking
at
it
compared
to
the
approved
2021
budget,
is
233.9
with
a
5.4
million
dollar
increase
from
2021-2022.
A
F
A
A
D
D
A
A
A
Those
will
be
transfers
in
from
other
department,
not
departments,
I'm
sorry
from
other
funds
like
hospital
and
probably
just
an
implied,
transfer
right
now,
because
we
don't
have
those
numbers
and
then
from
capital
improvement.
Those
type
those
types
of
transfers
in
and
transfers
in
and
then
reserves
would
be
anything.
We
anticipate
that
we
would
need
to
reserve
for
from
this
year
to
next
year.
B
B
A
Assumptions,
charleston
county
projected
growth
rate
of
four
percent
for
vehicles
and
three
percent
for
all
other
properties
on
property.
The
projected
tax
credit
factor
will
remain
remain
the
same
as
the
2021
tax
bill,
so
the
amount
of
loss
credited
to
our
citizens
will
be
23.46
million
dollars
and
then
for
berkeley
county
five
percent
for
via
for
all
property,
and
then
the
tax
credit
factor
will
stay
the
same
as
it
did
for
2021
and
lost
credit
would
be
2
million.
A
And
then
local
options,
sales
tax
has
actually
been
performing
strongly
in
2021.
So
our
projections
are
are
a
little
higher.
You
know
we're
pretty
conservative
last
year,
so
we
budgeted
18
right
now,
we're
at
22.7
or
that's
our
projection
after
seven
months,
and
so
we're
we're
budgeting
23.72
for
next
year
and
then
the
credit
amount
of
23.46
and
then
berkeley,
county,
1.5,
projection,
budgeted
and
then
we're
projecting
1.9
and
next
year,
2
million
dollars.
A
Business
licenses
was
surprising
for
us
in
2021,
so
we're
feeling
confident
increasing
that
revenue
source
in
22.
we
budgeted,
30.5
million
projection
is
38.7
and
the
for
2022
we're
projecting
39.5
and
with
the
drainage
transfer
out
of
791
000
would
be
about
thirty
eight
point:
seven
million
dollars.
G
A
C
A
A
G
G
D
A
A
We
could
add
them
all
up,
but
probably
yeah.
We
can
add
them
all.
I
don't
know
that
they're
super
considerable,
but
we'll
we'll
have
that
number
for
next
time,
so
you
can
see
just
where
everybody's
trying
to
come
back
from
prepayment
and
be
mostly
in
our
bigger
departments.
These
smaller
departments-
it's
not
significant,
but
it
probably
would
be
for
the
larger
departments.
D
A
F
F
F
A
Employee
pay
adjustment
that
we
talked
about
either
and
if
we
wanted
to
implement
our
three-year
plan
to
increase
minimum
wage
to
15,
that's
an
additional
6.9
million
dollars
which
would
put
our
deficit
at
10.2
million
dollars
last
year.
Just
to
remind
you
what
we
had
to
do
to
balance
last
year,
5.9
million
in
fund
balance.
We
had
the
two
mill
property
tax
increase,
we
cut
10
additional
salary
savings
and
we
didn't
do
the
normal
transfers
that
we
do
to
drainage
or
to
affordable
housing.
So
those.
C
A
So
we're
still
waiting
on
property
insurance
information
as
well
working
with
the
irf.
The
last
couple
years
has
been
a
little
bit
more
difficult.
So
I'm
hoping
that
we'll
get
that
next
week,
but
I'm
certain
we'll
have
an
increase,
we're
working
on
tourism
revenues
and
how
that
will
impact
the
general
fund
when
we
determine
the
amount
to
transfer
in
and
then
we're
just
looking
wanted
one
more
month
of
revenue
to
finalize
our
projections.
F
B
B
A
And
so
then
that's
really
all
I
had
for
our
budget.
Anyway,
there
was
some
information
that
you
all
had
asked
from
our
last
meeting
about
our
employee
information
and
so
councilmember
gregory
had
asked
about
living
wages,
so
I
was
going
to
go
through
some
of
those
slides
if,
if
that
was
okay
or
if
you
had
any
other
questions
on
budget,
we
can
talk
about
that
too.
A
A
F
F
A
A
A
A
A
D
D
D
A
G
G
A
So
we
have
that
so
the
vacancy
rate
and
turnover
by
department
they're,
based
on
the
actual
positions,
budgeted
but
then
also
kind
of
look
at
what
the
hr
system
has
as
well.
So
it
was
a
little
hard
for
them
with
part-time
positions,
but,
for
instance,
if
we
budgeted
eleven
and
a
half
positions,
they
assume
12
positions
when
they're
doing
this
analysis,
but
when
doing
that,
some
departments
that
have
a
lot
of
part-time
positions,
it's
kind
of
harder
to
estimate,
so
we
think
probably
recreation's
vacancy
rate
might
be
a
little
bit
understated.
A
But
you
can
see
the
vacancy
rates
in
all
of
the
departments
and
I'll
send
you
these
slides
too
so
it'll
be
easier
for
you,
but
so
my
department
has
a
10
vacancy
rate
clerk
with
council's
at
27
executives,
18.
fire
non-sworn
non-sworn
is
46
fires.
Sworn
is
three
percent
housing's
at
zero.
Each
other
is
at
six
percent.
It's
at
eighteen,
livability
is
at
nineteen
percent
parks
at
twenty
six
planning.
Nine
percent
police
non-sworn
is
at
fifteen
percent.
A
Police
sworn
is
at
seven
percent.
Public
service
says
that
twenty
eight
percent
recreation
13
like
I
said
we
think
because
they
have
so
many
part-time
employees
that
that
might
be
understated
a
little
storm
water's
at
41
percent,
tnt,
36
percent.
So
overall
cities,
sworn
is
only
at
five
percent
city.
Non-Sworn
is
at
22
percent
and
combined
sworn
nuns
is
15.
B
D
C
D
C
F
A
A
A
A
F
D
A
F
F
A
A
A
So
turn
over
by
grade,
I
think
councilmember
wearing,
is
one
of
the
things
you
really
wanted
to
see.
So
we
found
that
our
highest
turnover
has
been
in
our
second
lowest
pay
grade,
which
is
pay
grade.
Seven
and
examples
of
positions
in
that
grade
are
recreation
specialists,
parking
enforcement
officers
and
traffic
control
technicians,
and
then
the
second
highest
turnover
has
been
in
our
highest
pay
grade,
which
is
just
below
our
unclassified
pay
grade,
which
is
mostly
department.
A
A
A
B
A
B
B
Well,
those
would
be
your
your
ones
on
the
left-hand
side
correct
so,
like
I
said
they're
pretty,
even
that
second,
second
one
across
the
board,
but
anyway
they're,
probably
a
lot
more
positions
that
are
not
filled
down
there
than
there
are
on
the
right-hand
side
of
the
graph.
But
that's
just
my
my
guess.
D
A
A
E
A
A
G
Let
me
ask
this
amy:
this
is
great,
thank
you
so
much
in
between,
I
guess
our
next
meeting.
Obviously
we
have
a
revenue
problem.
We
don't
have
it.
No,
I
don't
really
think
we
got
an
expense
problem.
Mr
mayor
and
councilman,
I
we
got
a
revenue
problem
because
of
our
austerity
over
number
years.
Obviously
the
pandemic
coming
in
there
like
a
tsunami,
but.
G
G
We
hadn't
had
a
lot
of
employees,
you
know
for
the
last
decade
and
of
course
nobody
planned
for
a
pandemic,
but
if
you
were
gonna
ask
if
if
we
were
gonna
brainstorm
and
I'm
not
asking
for
an
idea
now
but
amy
and
everybody
else,
if
we
were
gonna
brainstorm,
how
we
can
increase
revenue.
Obviously
taxes
is
one
to
be
able
to
frankly
pay
off
people
and
be
able
to
fill
some
of
these
positions.
G
So
public
services,
the
various
department,
can
be
delivered
at
a
higher
level
than
we're
doing
now
I
mean
what
would
that
brainstorm
and
include?
I
just
don't
think
that's
a
bad
answer
to
that.
So
I
would,
I
would
hope,
maybe
at
our
next
meeting
we
could
have
you've
pointed
out
great
the
expenses
and
the
needs.
I
know
you'll
be
coming
with
more,
but
at
the.
F
E
B
B
So
I'll
be
honest
with
you,
I
I
think
economic
business
activity
has
been
surprising,
post
pandemic
and
we're
not
even
passed
it
all
the
way
yet
and-
and
I
think
that
will
continue-
you
know
we're-
we
should
probably
save
this
overall
discussion
for
another
day.
I
mean
we
don't
think
about
chasing
smoke
stacks
like
we
used
to
you
know
in
the
old
days
and
in
this
city
we
don't
have
the
real
estate
to
put
up.
B
You
know
a
big
manufacturing
plant,
or
you
know
the
heavy
industrial
zoning
that
kind
of
thing,
so
our
growth
has
been
in
more
digital
carter,
style
companies
and-
and
you
know,
sole
practitioners
moving
here
who
are
taking
out
a
business
license,
and
that
kind
of
thing
and
the
numbers
show
that
activity
has
has
actually
been
pretty
good.
So,
but
but
there
are
a
lot
of
nuances
to
that
discussion,
which
I
welcome
to
have
with
y'all.
B
So
so
they're,
just
naturally
in
in
in
covet
environment,
has
been
a
lot
of
turnover
and
I'm
not
discounting
the
fact
that
that
we
need
to
pay
our
non-sworn
employees
more
money.
That's
just
flat,
simple
statement.
We
we
we
need
to
follow
through
somehow
on
what
we've
been
talking
about
now
for
months
in
terms
of
adjustment,
cost
of
living
increase
for
our
particu
all
employees,
but
particularly
at
this
point,
our
non-sworn
position.
B
So
we
got
to
figure
that
out
and
whether
that
means
we
go
back
and
have
the
discussion
one
more
time
about
the
local
option.
Sales
tax-
or
you
know,
millage
rates
or
other
fees
that
we
can
add,
I
presume
amy,
is-
is
taking
into
account
of
the
new
traffic
and
transfer
public
right-of-way
fees
that
we've
recently
put
in
place.
D
Council
member
shade,
thank
you,
mr
mayor,
and
I
just
want
to
build
on
what
councilman
ware
and
councilman
gregory
are
talking
about,
because
I
think
that's.
This
is
a
critical
discussion.
We
need
to
be
having,
and
I
hear
your
points
as
well.
I
think
that
you,
you
did
on
some
wonderful
points
too,
but
this
is
maybe
a
little
bit
far
afield
of
what
we're
addressing
right
now,
but
I
think
there's
a
little
bit
bigger
issue
here
that
we're
dealing
with
it's
becoming
increasingly
more
expensive
to
live
in
the
city
of
charleston.
D
If
they're
going
to
land
someplace
within
the
jurisdictional
boundaries
of
the
city
of
charleston,
they
want
to
look
at
what
is
it
going
to
cost
me
to
do
business
in
sydney
charleston?
It's
not
just
a
business
license,
part
of
it.
It's
everything
is
as
simple
as
transportation,
parking
property
taxes,
rent
leases
going
to.
F
D
A
local
deli
or
something
like
that,
but
this
sort
of
a
more
broad-based
kind
of
spectral
question.
I
think
that
we're
not-
and
this
may
not
be
part
of
what
our
our
jurisdiction
is
as
far
as
ad
hoc
budget
committee
is
concerned,
but
it's
certainly
worth
a
discussion
as
to
figuring
out
what
else
can
we
bring
into
the
city
of
charleston
industry-wise
business-wise
that
councilman,
ware
and
gregory
are
talking
about,
and
and
how
do
we
do
that?
D
And
how
do
we
bring
those
and
send
those
down
here,
because
what
that's
going
to
entail
if
we
are
able
to
do
that,
it's
not
just
the
the
revenue
that
is
generated
with
that
business
speed
in
here.
It
also
is
going
to
have
a
positive
impact
on
folks
moving
back
into
the
into
the
community
as
well
and
spending
their
dollars
here
as
well.
So
I
know
I'm
going
a
little
bit
far
off
field
on
our
discussion,
but
I
think
that
they
are
hitting
on
a
very
valid
point
that
we
need
to
be
talking
about.
D
There's
just
nothing,
nothing,
scientific,
nothing!
Fancy!
It's
just
having
a
conversation
and
saying
you
know,
are
you
thinking
about
leaving,
and
so
why
are
you
thinking
about
leaving
and
you
can
you
can
hit
those
two,
those
two
categories
as
a
starting
point
to
find
out
and
what
we
need
to
do
to
to
address
that?
That
is
just
I
mean
we're
at
critical
mass
with
our
staffing.
D
I
think
some
of
it
may
be.
We
can
do
better
with
less,
because
we
need
to
be
more
efficient,
we're
more
modernized,
we're
more.
We
use
a
different
kind
of
technology,
not
on
the
flip
side
of
that
there
may
be
another
equation
that
we're
we're
not
addressing
with
that.
Anyhow,
those
are
my
random
thoughts,
and
I
just
think
this
all
worthy
and
further
discussions
regarding
how
we're
hitting
with
this
thanks.
A
B
And
council
member,
I
I
talk
with
our
department
heads
really
on
a
very
regular
basis
and
and
as
we
last
six
months
have
talked
about
this
position
in
that
position
and
losing
this
person
and
that
person
most
times
it's
because
of
the
salary
level
most
times.
If
that's
my
recollection,
councilmember
waring,
then
gregory.
G
G
Impact
fees
to
to
discourage
growth.
We
don't
need
to
do
that,
but
right
now
we're
at
zero
when
it
comes
to
impact
fees.
On
a
lot
of
things
I
mean-
and
I
think
if
we
had
impact
fees
on
new
construction,
we
need
to
study
it
now
we
don't
need
to
run
people
away,
but
I
know
there's
a
sweet
spot
between
maybe
where
mount
pleasant
is
and
how
zero
right.
Now,
where
we
are
so
there
are
a
number
of
things
out
there
that
I
think
we
can.
F
But
the
the
other
thing
is
on
efficiency
and
mayor.
Correct
me.
If
I'm
wrong,
I
thought
that
that's
what
novak
was
doing
for
us
in
terms
of
doing
a
study
of
all
of
our
departments
and
then
to
make
recommendations
to
be
more
efficient,
and
I
know
in
some
ways
they
have
done
that.
I
don't
know
whether
or
not
that
has
been
complete.
But
I
think
I
think
that,
if
it
was,
it
would
answer
some
of
the
questions
that
that
we're
having
now
based
upon
data.
B
B
F
B
Right,
but
you
reach
some
point
where
either
you
you
got
to
do
it
yourself
or
contract
it
out.
I
mean
look
at
picking
up
trash.
I
mean
we
do
what
a
third
of
the
city
with
that
outsource
contractors
and
you
gotta
either
pay
them
or
pay
our
own
people
at
some
point
and
and
if
it's
a
job
that
that
needs
to
be
done
by
our
by
our
city,
government,
council,
member
appel,.
C
Thank
you,
mr
mayor,
and
to
councilman
waring's
point.
You
know.
Impact
fees
are
something
that
I'm
very
familiar
with.
You
know
I
first
couple
years
out
of
law
school.
I
worked
with
a
firm
that
helped
set
up
impact
fee
programs
around
the
country
and
my
current
firm
I've
litigated
against
probably
75
or
more
of
the
impact
feed
programs
in
the
state,
and
I
can
tell
you
it
didn't
work
in
berkeley
county.
It
didn't
work
in
dorchester
county,
we're
fighting
beaufort
county
right
now
over
impact
fees.
C
You
know
impact
fees
for
smaller
scale,
infrastructure,
police,
fire
parks,
things
of
that
nature.
Those
can
work
pretty
effectively
and
I
believe
the
city
has
that
already.
But
when,
when
cities
start
getting
into
transportation
fees,
school
impact
fees,
things
of
that
nature,
it
really
becomes
difficult
and
what
it
does
is.
It
ends
up
exacerbating
housing,
affordability,
problems
because
the
developers
they
just
pass
this
fee
on
to
the
to
the
consumer
and
on
the
commercial
side,
the
fees
just
get
so
enormous.
C
It's
just
unbelievable.
I
mean,
in
the
berkeley
county
impact
fee
case
that
we
litigated
about
five
years
ago.
A
walmart
was
built
out
in
berkeley
county,
they
paid
a
500
000
impact
fee
and
chick-fil-a's
were
paying
80,
000
impact
fees
and
what
it
what
ended
up
happening
was
commercial
development.
Just
you
know
steered
clear
out
of
berkeley
county
for
the
most
part.
C
At
that
six
percent
rate
you
know
in,
but
but
it's
a
good
thought-
and
I
mean
impact
fees-
are
one
of
the
few
programs
and
mechanisms
mechanisms.
Municipalities
have
beyond
you
know,
millage
and
business
license
revenue,
which
is
our,
of
course,
our
top
two
revenue
sources.
You
know,
unfortunately,
I
think
not
to
be
pessimistic
here,
but
what
what
I
think
our
struggles
and
challenges
are
revealing.
C
Is
that
just
south
carolina
right
now,
the
operating
system
that
runs
and
governs
the
relationship
between
the
state,
the
county,
local
governments
from
a
fiscal
standpoint
is,
is
set
up
for
the
you
know,
the
generous
assessment
would
be
the
20th
century,
but
a
more
realistic.
It
might
be
the
19th
century.
Frankly,
in
a
lot
of
ways,
and
it's
just
not
set
up
for
urban
growing
cities.
It's
just
not.
I
mean
the
amount
of
wealth
that's
generated
here
in
the
city
of
charleston.
C
By
the
time
the
feds,
the
state
and
the
county
get
their
cut,
we're
left
with
these
little
peanuts,
and
then
we
don't
even
have
the
mechanisms
to
put
a
half
cent
sales
tax
on
something
I
mean
charleston
county
can
do
a
half
cent
sales
tax
and
raise
up.
You
know
hundreds
of
millions,
if
not
billions,
of
dollars,
and
they
can
do
it
like
this
where's
all
that
money
coming
from
it's
coming
from
us
right
and
maybe
mount
pleasant
and
north
charleston
to
a
lesser
lesser
extent.
C
But
you
know
there's
gonna
be
some
hard
conversations
coming
up.
I
think-
and
it's
just
unfortunate,
because
there's
only
so
many
buttons
and
levers
we
have
to
we
have
to
push,
but,
but
this
is
the
stuff
that
concerns
me,
what
we're
talking
about
right
now
I
mean
you
know:
stormwater
department,
40
vacancy.
You
know
that,
that's
you
know,
that's
that's
a
problem.
C
We
got
to
find
a
way
to
to
get
there
and
I'm
just
I'm
I'm
in
it
with
it
all,
let's
find
a
way
forward,
but
you
know,
unfortunately,
you
know
we
we've
got
to
find
a
way
over
time,
and
I
know
nothing
happens
fast
in
this
state.
We
got
to
find
a
way
to
give
municipalities
some
more
autonomy
and
some
more
control
over
their
resources.
I
mean,
as
councilman
jaya
talks
about.
C
I
mean
the
fact
that
you
know
the
dot
I
mean
you
know
we
try
to
do
little
enhancements
here
and
there
and
we're
on
the
hook
for
it.
Meanwhile,
they're
taking
all
of
our
money
and
not
giving
us
the
money
back,
I
mean
it's
just
no
way
to
run
a
state
and
it's
unfortunate
and
and
the
proof
is
in
the
pudding,
I
mean
you
look
at
our
roads
compared
to.
I
just
got
back
from
virginia
this
past
weekend:
unbelievable
roads,
unbelievable
infrastructure.
You
know
georgia,
athens.
C
When
you
talk
about
bike
lanes,
you
talk
about
paved
roads,
I
mean
it's
night
and
day
it's
night
and
day
and
south
carolina
is
just
so
far
behind
and
it's
sad,
but
we
we
gotta,
find
a
way
forward.
Sorry
for
the
ramble,
but
these
are
some
of
the
issues,
but
but
we
gotta
be
careful
with
impact
fees
for
sure.
Thanks.
E
I
I
don't
think
we're
gonna
solve
anything
here
today
mayor,
but
I
do
think
that
we
should
be
very
cognizant
of
the
you
know.
Systemic
challenge,
questions
that
we're
asking
ourselves,
because
we
can't
go
into
a
budget
where
it's
just
about
the
numbers
we've
got
them,
we've
got
to.
You
know,
really
drill
down
and
and
do
some
hard
thinking
about
the
the
overall
system
that
creates
our
revenue,
spends
our
money
and
serves
our
employees
and
and
as
they
serve
our
citizens.
E
B
E
G
If
you
remember,
I
may
mention
we
don't
want
to
do
like
unpleasant,
but
I
don't
know
if,
if
you
see
some
and
that's
not
for
the
david
in
your
career,
if
you
see
other
states,
that's
doing
something
that
other
municipalities
and
other
states.
I
should
say
that
we
can't
do
here,
maybe
maybe
it's
a
longer
haul.
But
then
maybe
we
try
to
introduce
something
and
get
some
changes
at
the
general
assembly
level.
So
we
can
have
some
sort
of
municipal
stream
of
revenue.
G
G
Listen,
I
was
about
to
admit
that
by
the
way
I've
already
been
there
I
was
about
to
mention
you
know
we
can
continue
this
at
a
place.
Nice
outdoor,
it's
cool
outside
milkshakes,
ice
cream,
cones,
and
we
can
keep
brainstorming
right,
west
ashley
right
now.
This
subject
after
this
meeting
is
over.
So
you
don't
have
to
twist
my
arm
to
go
here.
I'll.
Tell
you
that.
B
Council,
council
member
appel
just
to
follow
on
that
one
issue
of
of
the
impact
fees.
My
understanding
is
that,
since
the
time
that
mount
pleasant
put
theirs
in
place,
that
state
law
changed
to
make
it
harder
for
municipalities
to
put
these
fees
into
place
effectively-
and
I
is,
is
that
your
understanding
or
do
you
have
any
history
of
that
knowledge
of
that.
C
Prior
to
that,
there
were
a
handful
of
municipalities
in
the
state
that
imposed
impact
fees
out
of
the
pure
police
powers
theory
and
mount
pleasant
was
one
of
them
and
the
the
legislation
in
2000
recognized
and
essentially
grandfathered
in
the
local
governments
that
had
adopted
the
fees
prior
to
that
point.
But
at
each
step,
where
local
governments
have
amended
their
fees,
I
my
understanding
is:
is
that
they've
had
to
come
into
compliance
with
the
modern
rules?
C
And
I
can
tell
you
to
councilman
waring's
point
I
mean
mount
pleasant:
has
some
of
the
most
expensive
impact
fees,
not
just
in
south
carolina,
but
certainly
in
the
southeast,
maybe
the
entire
east
coast,
and
I
hope
nobody
from
male
pleasant's
listening
in
on
this
right
now.
But
they
are
using
that
as
a
growth
control
mechanism,
which
is
an
improper
purpose
for
impact
fees.
C
Impact
fees
are
supposed
to
be
very
carefully
calibrated
to
the
proportionate
demand
of
the
development
or
the
payor
relative
to
what
they're
receiving
in
return
they're
supposed
to
be
a
tight
nexus
there,
and
I
can
tell
you
they've,
got
their
hand
on
the
dial
and
they're
just
cranking
it,
because
they
don't
want
to
see
more
growth.
They
don't
want
to
see
more
development
guys
they
have
a
apartment
moratorium
that
they've
renewed
multiple
times
and
they've
got
a
building
permit
allocation
system.
C
I
mean
it
is
so
impossible
to
do
development,
both
residential
and
commercial
amount,
pleasant.
It's
unreal
and
listen.
We
got
financial
challenges
we're
talking
about
today.
They
got
major
challenges
on
the
horizon
over
there
they're
there
they
got
their
own
set
of
problems.
But
mayor
going
back
to
your
question,
it's
not
that
difficult
to
get
these
things
adopted.
C
I
mean
the
the
state
law
essentially
requires
these
engineering
reports
to
be
prepared
that
essentially
do
these
calculations
to
support
the
fees,
but
it's
not
that
arduous
to
do
it,
but
you
know
you
know
in
the
councilman's
point
I
mean
you
know,
if
you
go
into
this
with
a
very
character.
Very
carefully
there
could
be
some
ways
that
this
could
help
us,
but
the
potential
to
really
chill
development
exacerbate,
affordable
housing
problems.
C
E
Yeah,
I
agree.
I
think
that
we're
better
off
doing
our
zoning
and
incentivizing
development,
where
we
want
it.
You
know
that
that
that
should
be
the
the
bright
line
that
we
paint
for
ourselves,
that
we
know
that
there's
pent-up
demand
for
the
kind
of
housing
that
we
need
for
the
for
the
economy
here,
and
I
I
so
I
I'm
going
to
be
on
record.
B
B
C
You
know
there
there's
definitely
some
pitfalls.
Greenville
county
got
slammed
by
the
supreme
court
for
their
road
maintenance
fee.
It
was
acting
like
a
tax,
they
were
calling
it
a
fee,
but
if
we
can
design
fee
programs
as
long
as
the
payor
is
receiving
a
benefit
unique
to
themselves
in
exchange
for
the
mon
for
the
monies
they're
paying
right
and
we
calibrate
it
correctly,
there
could
be
some
opportunities
for
us
to
get
into
some
pretty
creative
revenue
generating
concepts,
especially
if
developers
have
options
and
I've
got
this
idea.
C
The
city
like
taking
this
money
is
like
some
sort
of
like
large
s
or
some
sort
of
like
a
bounty
or
something
it's
that
money
gets
pumped
into
the
departments
that
are
facilitating
and
reviewing
the
projects
and
it
all
kind
of
cycles
through
they
get
a
unique
service.
We
get
money
in
return
that
we
can
substantiate.
C
You
know
mixed-use
projects,
things
of
that
nature,
especially
downtown
and
and
they'll
they
would
pay
to
get
their
project
online
quicker,
reduce
their
carrying
costs.
Things
of
that
nature
and
we
can
fuel
that,
through
these
departments,
potentially
whether
it
be
storm
water,
water,
whether
it
be
our
planning
and
zoning
department,
things
of
that
nature.
So
that's
I
wanted
to
leave
on
a
somewhat
optimistic
note
on
it.
E
And,
and
to
service
the
user
fees
like
that
council,
member
appel,
that's
where
we
would,
you
know
really
be
changing
the
way
that
we
provide
services
doing
our
efficiencies
getting
into
the
systems.
I
mean
hiring
the
the
right
staff
to
make
those
user
fees
valuable
to
our
customers.
So
it's
it's
a
it's
a
it's
an
equation
on
both
sides
of
the
of
the
ledger
and
we'd
have
to
be
serious
about
both
of
them,
because
you
can't
promise
what
you
can't
deliver
so
yeah,
but
I,
I
think,
that's
very
enterprising,
very
innovative
to
point
a
phrase.
B
B
Where
we're
we're
using
it
services,
you
know,
be
it
submittal
of
documents
by
through
the
I.t
system,
and
you
know,
even
if
it's
a
minimal
percent
charge
over
a
year's
time
with
all
our
business,
it
could
be
a
couple
of
million
bucks
and
things
like
that.
We're
coming
forward,
we've
already
discussed
that
tnt
or
public
works.
Maybe
it
was
public
service
of
having
some
add-on
charges
for
trash
and
garbage
pickup
right
now.
If
you
got
two
cans,
there's
no
extra
charge.
We
just
we
just
pick
them
both
up.
B
You
know,
or
if
you
put
more
out,
then
you're
allowed.
We
just
pick
it
up
anyway.
You
know
so
I
mean
I
hate
to
say
it,
but
we
really
continue
we're
in
the
process,
but
it
takes
time
to
get
get
these
fees
fairly
figured
out
and
put
in
place,
but
we
continue
to
look
at
any
opportunities
like
that
that
are
appropriate,
that
we,
we
should
be
charging
folks
for.
E
We've
contributed
to
our
citizens,
entitlement
we've
enabled
so
when
you,
when
you
talk
to
any
area
that
is
as
spread
out
as
ours
and
provides
the
variety
of
services
that
we
do,
people
pay,
but
you
know
they
get
their
basics,
but
anything
beyond
that.
They
pay,
and
it's
like
councilmember
rappel,
said
on
the
development
side
for
good
service
you're
willing
to
have
a
little
fee
when
you
need
it,
when
you
have
to
use
it
yeah.
A
B
C
No,
it
amy
is
absolutely
right.
I
mean
the
fees,
cannot
be
it's
it's.
You
can't
extort
people
through
user
fees
in
south
carolina,
but
you
know
it
all
comes
down
to
the
end.
The
financial,
modeling
and
analysis
of
what
people
are
paying
and
what
they
receive,
what
they're
receiving
in
return,
and
if
we
talk
about
this,
I'm
calling
it
the
global
entry
program
and
and
we
need
25,
more
staff,
people
in
our
stormwater
review
process
and
our
zoning
department.
C
We
add
up
all
those
salaries,
we
add
up
all
that
stuff
and
we
you
can
you
can
model
this.
I
mean
this
is
how
going
back
to
the
impact
fees
mount
pleasant,
justifies
unbelievably
expensive
impact
fees.
They
have
a
report
prepared
by
engineers
and
economists
that
crunch
all
this
stuff
and
make
this
stuff
happen.
Now.
City
of
charleston
has
been
in
incredibly
conservative
and
incredibly
fair
to
our
detriment
over
the
years
and
the
way
we've
crunched
these
numbers
and
applied
these
things
like
so,
for
example,
with
the
tnt
stuff.
C
You
know
healthy
fees
to
to
help
again
roll
back
into
these
departments,
they're
providing
service
and
that's
the
hallmark
of
a
user
fee
in
south
carolina
is
you
have
to
be
receiving
a
discrete
individualized
service
in
return
for
the
fee?
That's
what
differentiates
it
from
a
tax
where
people
pay
their
taxes,
we
can
use
it.
For
you
know
our
health
plans.
We
can
use
it
for
a
park.
We
could
use
it
for
the
low
battery.
C
In
other
words,
where
people
are
not
forced
into
that,
it's
something
you
can
elect
it's
the
you're
more
than
happy
to
go
in
the
the
tsa
line.
With
everybody
else.
You
know,
they're,
not
gonna.
You
know
it's
gonna
be
very,
very
low
fee,
but
if
you
want
that
black
tie
service
you're
going
to
have
to
pay
for
it
and
that
money
then
gets
rolled
back
into
our
our
various
departments,
I
just
think
it's
something
worth
exploring
and
you
know
especially
given
the
challenges
we're
facing.
C
G
Just
to
follow
up
on
councilmember
ross
up
my
palace
now
but,
for
example,
the
mayor
talked
about
they're
looking
at
technology
fees,
and
I
guess
we
did
the
calculation,
including
our
people
from
time
to
time.
We
have
to
upgrade
our
software
and
then
that
that
falls
on
the
taxpayers
as
opposed
to
using,
and
I'm
wondering
you
know.
Obviously,
if
we
put
that
upgrade
right
now,
west
is
asking
for
upgrades
so
to
speak.
You
know
we
had
a
way
to
include
that
into
the
fee
alone.
Without
people
at
least
we
get
closer
to
break.
G
Even
I
think
what
you're
talking
about
just
great
man,
so
obviously
we
need
another
round
of
this
and
can't
do
it
all
in
one
day,
but
I
appreciate
very
much
this
brainstorming
and
when
you
think
about
development,
mr
man,
you
look
at
state
police
authority
property.
You
look
at
laurel
island,
that's
coming,
I
mean
if
we
keep
our
same
structure
in
place,
we'll
have
more
to
service
yeah,
we'll
get
some
on
property
taxes,
but
there's
a
big
time
lag.
G
B
That's
right
absolutely
all
right!
Well,
this
has
been
an
excellent
brainstorming
session
and
good
information.
Amy
thanks
for
your
usual
terrific
job
of
pulling
the
numbers
together
and
councilmember
waring.
I
picked
up
on
your
optimism
earlier
in
the
meeting
when
you
said
what'd,
you
say
well,
it
sure
is
a
lot
better
than
last
year.