►
Description
City of Charleston Tourism Commission : Quality of life 6/10/21
A
B
A
A
With
but
to
start
it
off,
it's
call
the
meeting
to
order
a
moment
of
silence
and
then
public
input,
and
we
have
five
people
who
have
requested
to
speak.
This
speak
this
evening
and
I
wanted
to
ask
you
since
you're
the
chair,
just
in
the
interest
of
time.
We
were
thinking
somewhere
between
three
or
four
minutes,
since
we
have,
since
we
have
five
people
speaking,
but
it
is
up
to
you,
since
you
are
the
chair.
B
B
C
Lee
before
you
do
that,
somebody
asked
me
to
do
something
which
was
might
be
helpful,
make
certain
that
we're
all
on
the
same
page.
The
purpose
of
this
subcommittee
is
to
either
report
out,
favorably
or
report
out
unfavorably
or
to
make
suggested
changes
to
section
8
of
the
proposed
ordinance
that
is
marked,
as
a
preliminary
amendments
exhibit
number
one
to
a
prior
package.
C
That's
all
we're
really
here
to
do
is
to
address
that
and
again
we
have
the
option
of
reporting
it
out.
Favorably
reporting
it
out,
unfavorably
or
potentially
saying
we
wish
to
report
it
out
with
modifications
of
some
type.
So
with
that
being
said,
I'm
now
turning
it
back
to
lee.
If
you
want
to
conduct
the
public
comments,
section
that'd
be
great.
D
Okay
thanks
so
much
everybody,
my
name
is
leanne
bain
and
I
am
president
of
the
charleston
tour
association.
I
would
like
to
briefly
comment
on
the
three
proposed
ordinances
that
are
on
your
agenda
today.
I
know
the
first
one
is
from
the
charleston
carriage
horse
advocates
the
anti-carriage
and
anti-tourism
group.
I
find
this
proposal
absolutely
ridiculous.
D
In
my
opinion,
these
suggestions
are
not
there
to
help
the
horses
or
the
safety
of
the
industry,
but
as
a
vendetta
with
the
goal
of
running
the
carriage
companies
out
of
business.
The
second
proposal,
which
is
the
main
focus,
is
the
city
proposal,
and
this
one
also
has
some
concerns
for
me
too,
on
several
of
their
suggestions.
I
believe
that
the
city
is
stepping
over
the
line,
for
example
the
one
that
you're
going
to
discuss
today.
The
emergency
plan
off
of
b,
c
and
d
are
really
the
responsibilities
of
the
business
not
of
the
city.
D
D
We
don't
put
these
requirements
on
hotels,
restaurants,
cab
companies,
pedicab
companies.
This
is
something
that
is
geared
specifically
to
the
carriage
companies
and
it's
not
the
city's
responsibility.
To
do
that.
The
third
thing
is,
I
don't
work
with
any
carriage
company.
I
don't
drive
carriage
to
companies,
but
when
I
became
the
president
of
the
charleston
tour
association,
I
did
visit
the
barnes
and
farms
to
learn
about
their
businesses.
I
am
an
animal
lover.
I
had
have
three
rescue
dogs
and
I
would
not
do
anything
to
harm
animals
in
any
way.
D
So
I
would
not
support
anything
of
the
carriages
if
that's
what
they
were
doing.
Their
carriage
companies
love
their
animals,
they
care
about
their
city
and
the
guests
that
ver
their
visit.
They
had
a
repo
proposal
which
was
number
three,
and
I
believe
it
was
an
olive
branch
showing
that
they're
willing
to
work
together
to
create
solutions
that
are
fair
and
equitable
for
all.
The
proposal.
D
You're
gonna
seller
discuss
today
what
is
won
by
the
city
and
it
did
not
take
any
consideration
into
a
recommendation
of
what
the
carriage
is
said
and
what
I
mean
by
that.
If
passage
safety,
so
what
happens
is
is
that
the
language
when
you
read
it?
If
you
don't
understand
the
business
makes
sense.
Okay,
you
have
to
have
a
parent
or
guardian,
accompanied
somebody
under
the
age
of
14..
D
So
I
personally
suggest
that
we
throw
out
all
three
of
these
and
start
from
scratch,
but
if
you
don't
want
to
do
that,
all
I'm
asking
is
that
you
take
the
chance
to
go
through
line
by
line.
Read
it
understand
it?
If
you
don't
understand
those
questions,
the
carriage
companies
are
on
zoom.
Please
ask
them
directly
what
it
means.
I
appreciate
your
time.
E
Okay,
thanks,
thank
you
all
for
the
opportunity
to
appear
here
today.
My
name
is
nicholas
greene.
I'm
counsel
to
the
charleston
carriage
horse
advocate
advocates
a
local
group
of
citizens,
including
myself,
I'm
a
citizen
of
charleston,
two
that
advocates
for
increased
regulation
and
oversight
of
the
carriage
industry
in
charleston.
E
Frankly,
our
ordinance
is
very
lacks,
there's
a
lot
that
could
be
improved
about
it
and
by
our
ordinance
I
mean
the
ordinance
of
the
city
of
charleston,
the
existing
law.
The
second
is,
is
mr
riccio
and
ms
share,
who
I
appreciate
their
collaboration
and
and
discussions
with
me
over
the
past
year
and
what
I
understand
to
be
their
recommendation
for
what
would
constitute
an
appropriate
and
enforceable
ordinance
with
respect
to
safety
and
regulation
of
the
industry
and
the
third.
I
I
I'll.
Let
the
carriage
industry
describe
what
what
they
are
attempting
to
do.
E
It's
not
clear
whether
they
support
anything,
and
it
actually
appears
that
they
do
not.
There
have
been
three
meetings
this
week.
This
is
the
third
time
I've
spoken
chair
sabo.
I
know
you've
heard
me
all
three
times
and
what
I'm
gonna
do
is
address
slightly
preemptively,
an
argument
that
I've
heard
over
and
over,
including
from
mr
riccio,
that
somehow
this
process
is
abnormal,
that
it's
unusual
for
a
citizen
group
to
come
before
its
government
and
to
advocate
for
a
particular
set
of
policy
changes.
E
I
make
a
living
as
a
partner
in
a
global
law,
firm,
passing
laws
in
state
legislatures
all
around
the
country.
I
do
it
on
behalf
of
businesses,
that's
who
pays
my
bills
and
I
have
to
say
I've
been
in
hundreds
of
meetings
with
legislators
and
I've.
Never
not
once
heard
them
say.
I
don't
support
this
because
it
seems
like
you're
the
clients
that
you
represent
really
want
it
or
that
you
want
to
increase
the
regulation
on
an
industry
or
you
want
to
change
the
law
in
some
way.
That
might
benefit
your
client.
E
I've
never
heard.
That
said
yet.
I
was
dismayed
to
hear
that
repeatedly
said
over
and
over
last
night
and
to
be
perfectly
honest,
it
makes
me
feel
as
though
this
process
is
not
a
real
process
that
it
doesn't
really
matter
what
citizens
say
in
in
public
comment
because
well,
what's
the
difference,
we
support
it.
So
therefore
it
must
be
a
bad
idea.
I
ask
you
to
look
at
the
ideas
on
their
merit
and
on
the
policy
which
I've
attempted
to
do
over
the
last
several
nights
to
engage
in
a
substantive
policy
discussion.
E
I
expect
that
you
will
not
hear
a
lot
about
policy
from
the
carriage
industry
tonight.
I
think
you
will
hear
a
number
of
ad
hominem
attacks
on
me
personally
and
my
client,
which
I
think
is
unfair
and
inappropriate
for
this
commission
and
for
citizen
engagement
in
the
city
of
charleston,
and
I've
been
dismayed
frankly
that
not
a
single
member
of
this
commission
and
the
prior
committees,
and
I
apologize
for
those
of
you
who
were
not
on
the
prior
ones.
So
nobody
spoke
up
and
said
you
know.
E
We
don't
need
that
type
of
discourse
that
you
know,
mr
green.
His
clients
are
all
residents
of
the
city
of
charleston,
just
like
we
all
are
and
frankly
the
idea
that
somehow
me
or
my
client
are
politically
privileged
or
that
we
are
wasting
the
city's
time
by
engaging
in
the
democratic
process
is
well.
It
should
be
embarrassing
for
somebody
to
say
that
and.
E
Okay,
well,
I
have
slightly
more
to
say-
and
you
can
cut
me
off
if
you
want
me,
but
I
will
make
one
final
note,
which
is
of
the
people
voting
tonight
there.
One
is
an
officer
of
a
carriage
industry
operator,
okay,
the
ordinance
is
set
up
specifically
so
that
this
commission
is
tilted
in
favor
of
the
tourism
industry
and
that's
fine.
E
I
don't
have
a
problem
with
that,
but
I
do
ask
that
the
commission
considered
the
entirety
of
the
ordinances
that
we've
proposed
and
that
mr
riccio
has
proposed
on
their
merit
that
it
exercised
its
regulatory
oversight
obligation
with
respect
to
the
industry,
and
you
know
I
I
have
a
list
of
incidents
over
the
last
five
years
where
people
have
been
injured,
including
children,
falling
off
of
a
wagon
right,
a
child
fell
off
a
wagon
on
east
bay
street.
Our
process
does
not
work.
E
It
is
not
effective
to
react
to
every
incident
with
some
change
that
addresses
that
particular
incident.
We
need
to
think
long
and
hard
about
proactive
measures
so
that,
when
something
happens
we
can
say
hey.
Look.
We
thought
about
this
in
advance.
We
did
our
best
and
two.
We
don't
damage
the
brand
of
charleston
by
rejecting
basic
common
sense
regulatory
principles.
So
you
know
I
only
have
three
minutes
and
I
appreciate
your
time.
F
And
for
years
now,
the
carriage
companies
have
endured
harassment
and
relentless
attacks
from
this
political
group.
They
have
screamed
at
our
customers,
who
remember
our
people.
Visiting
charleston
screamed
at
our
employees
picketed
and
protested
in
front
of
our
barns,
intimidated
our
barn
workers
to
the
point
that
many
have
quit
because
of
the
verbal
abuse
and
they've
spread
misinformation
and
lies
about
how
we
do
business
y'all
have
seen
it
and
for
the
new
commissioners
you
will
as
well.
F
F
F
Although
the
carriage
companies
think
that
this
entire
exercise
is
futile,
it's
unnecessary
and
rewards
bad
behavior.
We
are
willing
to
compromise
in
order
to
continue
our
objective
of
being
the
safest
and
best
run-on-carriage
community
in
the
country.
We
are
here
ready
to
assist
the
city
with
our
expertise
in
crafting
an
ordinance
that
makes
sense
with
everyone.
F
F
The
other
reason
we
oppose
this
ordinance
is
because
it
turns
a
weather
decision
into
a
political
decision
if
it
starts
to
spit
rain
in
charleston
mark
my
words,
the
anti-carriage
group
will
get
their
members
to
flood
the
city
with
calls
and
emails,
demanding
that
they
close
us
down
and
as
it
currently
stands.
We,
mr
jones.
F
F
Though,
okay,
thanks
as
it
currently
stands,
we
make
this
decision
based
on
close
review
of
weather
reports
and
radar
and
keep
in
mind.
We
are
liable
for
any
weather
related
incident,
so
no
one
is
more
cautious
than
we
are
about
being
as
safe
as
possible,
and
if
the
city
takes
over
this
decision,
they
are
liable
liable
and
are
much
more
susceptible
to
public
pressure.
F
So
we
must
keep
this
decision
based
on
science
and
not
politics,
but
if
you
feel
compelled
to
act
on
this
particular
proposal,
we
simply
ask
that
we
be
able
to
make
up
the
time
we
lose
in
one
hour
increments
over
the
course
of
the
following
saturdays.
In
other
words,
if
we're
shut
down
for
three
hours
on
a
given
day,
the
next
three
saturdays,
we
would
be
open
for
one
additional
hour.
That's
a
fair
compromise
that
keeps
us
in
business
and
gets
the
city.
What
it's
looking
for.
F
The
other
part
of
this
section
dealing
with
children
on
carriages
with
all
due
respect,
is
written,
vaguely
and
is
in
need
of
significant
improvements
in
clarification,
but
in
our
opinion,
is
unnecessary.
The
way
it's
written
it
require
requires
one
adult
per
child
which
would
limit
families
and
school
groups.
It's
another
example
of
a
solution
in
search
of
a
problem.
F
So
I
just
ask
that
you
follow
the
lead
of
your
colleagues
on
the
tour
guide
subcommittee,
who,
on
tuesday,
rejected
all
of
these
proposal
proposals.
This
is
not
the
time,
nor
is
it
any
any
of
this
needed.
I'm
here
to
answer
any
and
all
questions
that
you
may
have
over
the
course
of
this
meeting.
We
want
to
be
a
part
of
the
solution.
F
F
A
A
G
Great
members
of
the
subcommittee
and
city
staff,
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
to
you
tonight.
My
name
is
broderick
kristof
with
charleston
carriage,
I'm
asking
the
subcommittee
to
vote
against
the
changes
to
the
ordinance
that
are
in
front
of
you
tonight.
There
seemed
to
be
a
lot
of
confusion
among
subcommittee
members
at
the
previous
two
meetings
about
the
series
of
events
that
led
us
to
where
we
are
today,
and
I
just
wanted
to
talk
about
that
for
a
bit
at
yesterday's
subcommittee
meeting.
G
We
learned
from
city
staff
that
this
process
began
in
august
of
last
year,
when
the
anti-garage
group
privately
presented
an
ordinance
that
presumably
mr
green
wrote
to
some
members
of
city
council.
They
were
directed
by
those
members
to
go
through
them
which
they
did
and
the
city
legal
department
came
up
with
what
is
before
you
tonight.
G
At
no
point
in
this
process
was
the
carriage
community
invited
to
participate
in
the
crafting
of
the
city's
version
exhibit
one.
However,
yesterday
mr
green
told
us,
he
had
multiple
conversations
with
city
legal
staff
during
the
process
to
be
fair.
While
we
do
not
think
new
ordinances
are
necessary,
we
were
invited
to
submit
changes.
We
would
like
to
see-
and
we
made
notes
about
sections
we
wanted
to
clarify
and
expected
that
at
some
point
we
would
all
be
meeting
to
kind
of
coalesce
these
things.
G
Those
meetings
didn't
happen
and
then
suddenly
we
were
notified
that
these
subcommittees
were
apparently
those
meetings.
However,
unlike
past
subcommittee
meetings,
where
participation
occurred
throughout
these
meetings
limit
our
participation
to
timed
pre-meeting
comments,
which
lee
is
counting
down
my
seconds
now,
even
when
the
subcommittee
members
propose
questions
for
the
carriage
community
that
we
could
answer
and
even
though
we're
present
throughout
no
one
asks
us.
G
Nor
do
I
recognize
a
political
anti-carriage
group,
non-profit
or
otherwise,
as
a
stakeholder
in
this,
their
members
repeatedly
appear
on
records
of
both
the
commission
and
council
advocating
for
a
ban
on
carriage
tours,
regardless
of
what
their
attorney
tells
you
today.
You
can
check
that
for
yourselves.
G
Let's
do
a
brief
thought
experiment.
Imagine
that
we're
a
community
of
mice
and
we
decide
to
get
together
and
decide
what's
best
for
our
milestone.
Would
we
give
the
cat
a
seat
at
the
table?
I
mean
what,
if
that,
what
if
the
cat
dresses
like
a
mouse
are
we
then
obligated
or
what?
If
the
cats
have
political
connections
at
a
high
powered
mouse
that
represents
them,
I
mean,
maybe
that's
it.
I
honestly
don't
know,
but
what
I
do
know
is
that
these
cats
have
been
monopolizing
this
commission's
time
for
two
solid
decades.
G
Among
the
things
that
we've
all
learned
over
the
last
year,
I
hope
is
that
municipalities
don't
have
a
duty
to
compromise
with
groups
that
are
ideologically
opposed
to
the
existence
of
another,
be
it
because
of
race,
gender,
nationality,
business
type
or
otherwise.
When
will
we
finally
be
brave
enough
to
just
simply
reject
these
groups?
After
all
the
unrest
over
the
last
year,
we're
still
going
to
consider
these
types
of
groups,
stakeholders.
G
G
While
history
has
shown
that
the
carriage
committee
and
the
city
have
worked
together
in
the
past
to
affect
positive
change.
That
hasn't
happened
with.
What's
before
you
tonight,
yesterday's
subcommittee
decided
to
avoid
issues
altogether.
Instead
of
voting
on
just
the
sections
we
were
all
expecting
based
on
the
agenda,
they
voted
not
to
endorse
the
city's
version,
but
to
instead
recommend
the
entire
proposed
ordinance,
all
of
exhibit
1
be
explored
again
and
that
passed
2-1.
G
G
H
Lee
can
you
hear
me?
Yes,
sir
hello,
thank
you
for
your
time
guys.
My
name
is
richard
canoe
with
carolina
polo
and
carriage
company
we're
the
only
carriage
operation
that
is
not
represented
by
the
cares
group.
I
would
like
to
say
that
that
doesn't
mean
that
we
are
new
to
the
carriage
industry,
the
forest
business
and
all
of
the
safety,
animal
welfare
and
operational
concerns
that
must
be
taken
every
day
to
maintain
charleston's
carriage
industry
at
the
gold
standard
for
all
equine
activities.
I
believe
globally.
H
H
With
that
being
said,
as
the
only
carriage
operator
not
represented
by
cares,
sometimes
we
are-
and
I
know
it's
completely
unintentional
left
out
of
some
notices
and
correspondence.
This
is
actually
last
week
the
email
that
was
sent
on
june
1st
was
the
first
official
notice
that
we'd
received
these
any
new
proposals
or
changes
to
the
tourism
ordinance.
H
I
believe
that
this
whole
process
is
very
rushed
and
it
would
be
in
the
best
interest
of
everybody
involved.
We
had
more
time
to
discuss
anything
that
could
be
codified
and
put
into
the
tourism
ordinance,
which
is
would
affect
our
daily
operations,
which
we
all
know
is
just
coming
back
from
the
devastating
kobe
crisis.
A
I
I
Okay,
thank
you
and
thank
you
for
giving
me
this
opportunity.
My
name
is
jody
whitaker
and
I
am
the
founder
of
the
chicago
alliance
for
animals
and
the
partnership
to
ban
horse
carriages
worldwide.
I'm
speaking
today
on
behalf
of
our
4
200
plus
members,
caa
monitored
chicago
sports
carriage
trade
every
weekend
for
nearly
two
and
a
half
years,
every
single
time
we
documented
the
horses
and
operators
we
witnessed
and
documented
violations
of
the
law.
This
is
not
an
easy
trade
to
regulate
in
order
to
prove
horses
are
not
overworked
and
that
they
are
given
water.
I
I
I
Since
the
beginning
of
two
of
2020
at
least
26
horses
and
humans
have
died
from
horse
carriage
accidents
around
the
world.
I'm
not
sure
what
the
man
from
charleston
cares
was
saying
about
people
verbally
harassing
horse
carriage
operators,
but
my
volunteers
do
not
communicate
with
horse
carriage
operators
nor
their
passengers.
We
simply
are
down
there
to
document
violations
and
the
daily
cruelty
that
the
horses
endure
and
by
the
way,
the
first
woman
who
spoke,
who
said
she
loves
animals.
I
You
cannot
simply,
or
you
cannot,
exploit
and
put
animals
in
harm's
way
and
love
them.
At
the
same
time,
I
urge
you
to
heed
the
advice
of
the
charleston
city
paper
and
ban
horse
carriages
outright
to
prevent
a
horse
collapsing
or
dying
on
your
streets
or
sending
tourists
or
locals
to
your
local
emergency
rooms.
A
A
B
A
A
The
tour
guide
subcommittee
focused
on
sections
one
two
and
three
which
dealt
with
tour
carriage
driver
licensing
last
night.
The
routes
parking
and
tourism
rules
subcommittee
focused
on
sections,
four,
five,
six
and
seven,
and
then
9
10,
11
and
12,
which
dealt
with
different
different
day-to-day
regulations
that
would
affect
the
that
affected.
The
normal
tourism
rules
for
carriage
operators.
B
A
A
B
J
A
The
charleston
care
choice
advocates
ccha
through
their
representative
attorney
nicholas
greene,
submitted
a
proposed
ordinance
to
the
city
on
or
about
august
2020..
The
city's
typical
protocol
when
ordinances
and
amendments
are
requested
is
for
city
staff,
including
legal
staff,
to
write
the
ordinances.
A
Our
staff
carefully
reviewed
the
proposal
and
worked
over
many
months
with
the
city's
legal
department
to
draft
a
preliminary
ordinance.
In
response,
the
city
drafted
a
proposal
that
we
believed
to
be
effective,
enforceable
and
legally
proper.
This
version
was
shared
with
the
carriage
industry
and
ccha
representatives
of
the
carriage
industry
generally
agreed,
but
responded
with
some
recommendations.
A
The
ccha
attorney,
nicholas
green
after
a
review
of
the
city
ordinance
asked
that
their
original
proposal
go
before
the
tourism
commission.
As
written
along
with
our
proposal,
the
tourism
commission
and
its
subcommittees
are
asked
to
review
the
city
of
charleston.
Preliminary
amendments
exhibit
1,
the
ccha
proposal
exhibit
2
and
the
response
from
representatives
of
the
carriage
industry
exhibit
three.
A
K
Yes,
so
I
will
go
over
all
of
those
I'd
first
off
like
to
thank
on
the
subcommittee
for
your
time.
Obviously,
as
you
can
hear,
you
are
dealing
with
two
very
polar
positions,
and
I
know
that
these
are
not
easy
decisions
to
make,
although
they
are
important
ones.
I
would
also
like
to
thank
the
city
staff.
I
really
enjoyed
working
with
everybody
to
make
this
happen
and
hope
that
we
go
through
this.
K
I
kind
of
struggled
with
this
yesterday.
So,
let's
see
if
there
we
go
so
we're
looking
through
the
sections,
eight
section,
eight,
which
was
the
emergency
procedures,
let
me
see
if
I
can
make
that
a
little
bigger,
not
that
big
procedures
so
for
the
emergency
procedures,
as
it
was
stated
earlier.
This
is
something
that
I
do
believe
that
y'all
have
seen
before
you
know.
After
discussing
with
with
staff
earlier
well
one
I'd
like
to
say
this
is
important.
K
B
J
J
You'll
also
read
in
there
also
other
other
emergency
conditions
or
situations
that
could
be
a
active
shooter
in
the
area.
An
armed
robbery
suspect
on
the
loose
some
kind
of
activity
that
can
involve
immediate
danger
to
the
community,
and
we
pitched
that
to
these.
That
was
from
our
office
two
years
ago.
J
The
carriage
advocates
interceded
with
their
proposal
to
include
the
management
plan
and
things
of
that
nature,
but
if
anything's
important
from
our
eyes
is
the
ability
for
myself
or
some
other
staff
member
to
halt
any
carriage
operation
in
the
event
of
any
emergency,
whether
it
be
weather
any
type
of
you
could
say,
a
gas
leak
if
a
gas
leak
was
in
the
area
and
there's
potential
for
danger,
so
it's
all
inclusive.
So
I
just
wanted
to
make
that
clear.
Okay,
you
ask.
L
L
K
And
although
we
would
say
that
all
the
subsections
are
important,
I
would
just
ask
the
subcommittee
to
at
least
prioritize
the
subsection
a
for
their
consideration.
The
second
part
that
you
all
are
considering
this
evening
is
passenger
safety.
We
are
asking
that
the
passengers
under
the
age
of
14
be
accompanied
by
a
parent
or
guardian.
K
K
So
those
are.
These
are
basically
the
only
two
sections
like
I
said.
We
do
believe
that
all
of
these
are
important.
If
we
do
have
to
prioritize,
we
would
ask
you
to
prioritize
that
subsection
a
actually
for
both
of
them.
We
would
recommend
that
having
the
age
requirements
and
we're
happy
to
redraft
this
or
make
this
more
more
clear
to
accommodate
chaperones,
but
we
would
ask
those
to
be
prioritized.
L
And
then
we
can
ask
a
couple
of
questions
I'd
like
to
know,
hence
I'm
a
little
confused
as
to
where
all
this
is
coming
from.
If
I
understand
correctly
as
a
novice
here,
this
has
come
from
some
carriage
advocates
groups
separate
from
the
carriage
industry
who
started
these
proposals
and
then
the
city
drafted
them
and
has
presented
to
us.
Is
that
basically,
what
I'm
understanding
and
so
have
there
been
incidents
that
have
led
to
these
or
have
we
had
incidents
with
school
groups
or
with
young
people
falling
off?
J
J
Charleston,
and
I
chose
at
that
point
to
halt
carriage
operations
for
the
safety
of
all
the
visitors,
the
citizens
and
my
staff
to
to
halt
it
temporarily
until
weather
conditions
improved
one
hour
later,
they
improved
and
we
opened
up
operations
again
and
basically
was
ridiculed
for
it.
So
for
not
being
in
the
ordinance
that
I
could
have
the
authority
to
do
that.
J
M
M
I
think
that
my
personal
opinion
is
that
the
emergency
procedure
section
is
government
overreach
and
I
think
that
the
companies
have
done
a
really
good
job
of
closing
when
the
weather
is
bad,
they've
got
a
pilot
program
that
seems
to
be
working,
god
forbid.
There
ever
is
an
active
shooter.
I
do
not
think
they
would
go
in
that
area.
N
J
No,
I
can
answer
that,
and
that
is
that
is
totally
correct
with
in
the
the
the
the
difficulty
comes
with
the
cares
group
with
which
comprises
three
companies
and
the
other
individual
or
not.
Within
the
group
having
proper
communication,
there
is
insignificant
communication
between
the
cares
group
and
the
other
carriage
operator.
That's
what
concerns
me
so
what's
said
for
the
cares
group
for
the
three
company
and
the
one
company,
not
under
the
cares
umbrella,
there's
a
problem.
J
There's
a
communication
problem
cares
comes
forward,
saying
we're
doing
all
this
stuff,
we're
and-
and
I
agree
they
do
cooperate
with
us,
but
there
is
still
a
disconnect
if
all
four
companies
were
under
the
same
umbrella.
We
probably
wouldn't
be
having
most
of
this
discussion
some
of
this
discussion.
Yes,
but
there's
a
difference
in
the
industry
with
the
unity
of
all
four
companies
together,
that's
a
problem!
J
That's
a
problem
for
all
of
us!
That's
why
it's
difficult
to
enforce
notify.
Just
because
the
cares
group
is
doing,
something
doesn't
mean
the
other
one
has
knowledge
of
what's
going
on
and
the
communication
factor
in
place.
So
with
that
disconnect
is
a
lot
of
concern
with
this
emergency
procedure.
We
halt
operations.
It's
common
sense,
if
you
don't
think
that
if
I
know
or
have
awareness
that
there
is
a
potential
armed
gunman
somewhere
nearby
that
I
would
not
have
the
common
sense
or
the
authority
to
halt
operations
to
me
is
ridiculous.
J
I
think
it's
important
to
have
some
purview,
not
government
overreach.
It's
not
government
overreach,
it's
a
matter
of
public
safety
for
one,
my
employees
to
their
employees
and
the
visitors
and
citizens
of
charleston.
So
I
I
will
tell
you
it's
what's
good,
for
one
is
not
good
for
the
other
companies
because
they
are
not
on
the
same
communication
level.
If
they
were
all
to
unite.
J
M
M
J
So
this
is
a
totally
totally
different
animal
with
this,
and
I'm
here
to
tell
you
you
guys,
can
do
what
you
want
and
that's
fine,
I'm
not
getting
in
this
political
fight,
because
I'm
getting
a
little
tired
of
it
between
both
sides.
I
don't
care
about
both
sides.
I
care
about
public
safety,
I
care
about
charleston
and
the
citizens
and
visitors.
N
Now
that
I'm
hearing
that
there
was
a
challenge
to
your
authority,
when
you
actually
did
clear
the
streets,
I
can
see
the
need
for
putting
that
in
the
code
that
that
you
or
somebody
at
the
city
does
does
have
the
authority
question.
Though,
given
that
emergencies
by
definition,
don't
allow
much
time
for
decision
making.
Is
there
any
way
to
codify
the
kind
of
advising
consent
that
might
take
care
of
some
of
this.
K
Disconnect,
I
think,
in
terms,
I
think,
that's
why
we
would
need
this.
It
would
be
a
discretionary
for
for
our
director.
What
I
do
want
to
emphasize
is
this
is
not
meant
to
change
the
heat
restrictions.
Obviously,
that
is
something
that
has
already
been
very
much
discussed
on
both
sides
that
is
written
in
there.
This
is
really
for
the
emergency
situations.
B
N
L
J
So
it's
it's
not
a
not
the
prettiest
tour
if
you
will
and
if
we
were
to
amend-
or
it
would
take
an
amendment
to
the
ordinance
of
the
time
that
these
carriages
are
out
because
there's
a
reason
for
the
gate
to
close
so
that
it
doesn't
impact
the
residential
community
after
the
gate
closes,
and
that
would
be
very
difficult
to.
In
my
opinion,
dealing
with
these
issues
over
the
years
is
to
have
neighborhood
support
for
an
extra
hour
on
any
given
day
to
be
compensated,
for
that
would
be
difficult.
J
The
situation
happened
with
the
potential
tornado.
They
were
closed
for
one
hour.
Sometimes
it's
an
hour
in
the
heat
when
the
heat
index
gets
up.
So
it's
it's
extremely
hard
to
have
a
system
to
where
we
have
to
give
them
back
their
time
lost
because
of
a
heat
or
in
this
case
a
weather
or
emergency
event.
N
J
B
M
L
B
B
L
B
Yeah
and
like
I,
I
think
the
the
last
speaker
talked
about
banning
the
carriage
industry.
Well,
that's
not
our
job.
You
know,
that's
that's
not
before
this
subcommittee
or
or
even
at
this
point
before
the
commission.
So
you
know
our
our
job
today
is
is
strictly
to
look
at
29-13
and
29-14
and,
as
tim
said
report,
him
favorably
or
unfavorably
or
favorably,
with
modification.
B
N
M
K
K
B
L
J
J
C
B
N
L
A
I
did
also-
and
it
is
of
course
up
to
the
it
is
up
to
the
to
the
committee
members
and
the
chair.
We
did
have
one
comment
in
the
chat
asking
to
stop
the
screen
sharing
sharing
of
the
screen,
so
the
public
can
view
the
panelists,
but
that
decision,
of
course,
would
be
up
to
the
committee
members
and
the
chair.
B
M
C
N
O
Mr
chair,
this
is
michael
sabo,
I
think
you
know
to
ms
moore's
point
earlier
and
about
equality
in
terms
of
making
all
the
other
tour
companies.
I
think
they
apply
more
to
bcd
and
I'm
in
favor
of
removing
them
to
some
from
the
standpoint
that
they're
just
not
equitable,
amongst
all
the
other
tour
companies
in
the
city,
whether
it
be
a
bus
or
a
pedicab
or
anything
so
that
that's
my
personal
opinion.
N
C
K
K
We
do
believe
that
the
age
restrictions
are
important
and
we
do
believe
having
age
restrictions
for
the
back
row
and
the
sides
just
to
make
sure
just
for
a
safety
extra
safety
measure.
I
believe
most
of
the
carriages
do
have
the
16
maximum
already.
This
would
just
be
trying
to
make
everything
level
and
on
an
even
playing
field,
and
this
c
would
be
maximizing
the
number
of
additional
children
that
are
that
are
added
to
it.
K
B
K
Well,
the
way
it's
written
now
I
mean
the
onus
would
be
on
the
carriage
company.
For
that
I
mean
the
city
would
not
be
out
there
asking
parents
for
the
ages.
The
carriage
company
would
just
be
responsible
for
maintaining
that
they
do
have
the
kids
aged
appropriately
sitting
appropriately
for
safety
reasons.
J
Yes,
we
do,
I
think
it
was
a
year
ago,
a
child
four-year-old
child
fell
off
the
rear
of
a
carriage,
and
I
think
the
the
reason
for
this
type
of
ordinance
is
to,
if
you
will,
a
protective
barrier
around
the
carriage
with
adults-
and
you
know,
interior
with
kids
seems
to
be
a
little
more
safer
than
having
a
child.
You
know
dangling
on
the
back
of
a
carriage
or
on
the
sides,
so
I
think
that's
the
spirit
of
the
ordinance
is
having
a
safety
buffer
or
for
children
that
can
potentially
fall
off.
L
K
K
M
M
B
B
K
B
B
B
J
J
I
guess
we
were
a
little
bit
ridiculed
by
both
sides
regarding
communication,
when
all
this
came
out
to
include
mr
green
saying
that
this
was
not
normal
for
citizens
to
express
concern.
That's
not
what
I
was
saying.
It
was
not
normal
for
a
citizen
group
to
give
us
a
list
of
pre
ordinances
already
drafted,
that
is
the
responsibility
of
city,
legal
and
city
staff
to
draft
an
ordinance.
J
J
Our
goal
was
to
meet
as
a
group,
but
obviously
with
this
group
with
their
history,
that's
very
difficult
to
do
so.
That's
why
we're
at
this
point
with
input
meetings
and
trying
to
come
up
with
the
best
solutions
to
an
ordinance
that
would
satisfy
all,
because
not
everybody
can
be
satisfied.
But
if
you
have
a
little
bit
of
what
you
want
in
the
ordinance,
you
will
be
satisfied
and
that
our
goal
going
into
this
was
the
hash
all
this
stuff
out
prior.
We
did
not
get
that
cooperation
across
the
board
at
all.
So
that's.
J
Why
we're
here
now
now
everybody's
wanting
their
side
and
wanting
people
to
decide,
and
it's
it's
it's
confusing
to
everyone,
and
for
that
I
apologize.
But
that
said
you
know
with
the
passenger
safety.
There
are
issues
and
I
think
I
gave
people
on
both
sides
ample
time
to
contribute
and
that
never
happened.
B
I
mean
I
I'm
obviously
for
passenger
safety.
I
don't
think,
regardless
of
what
side
you're
on
anybody
can
really
disagree
with
passenger
safety.
It's
a
it's
a
question
of
putting
forth
the
best
language
and
for
some
reason
I
don't
think
this
is
the
best
language,
but
I
don't
right
now.
I
can't
think
of
an
alternative.
M
L
L
H
M
B
Only
thing
I
have-
and
I
don't
know,
mr
mr
dominate,
restrict
what
we
can
say
and
what
we
can't
say.
I'm
not
sure,
but
I
had
a
conversation
with
mr
owen
yesterday
and
the
the
basic
thrust
of
it
and
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
is
to
see
what
other
issues
can
be
brought
before
this
subcommittee
that
affect
quality
of
life.
J
We
have
really
addressed
quality
about
life
issues
over
the
whole
entire
last
five
years,
six
years
that
we've
been
over
tourism,
that's
equine
sanitation.
That
was
a
big
complaint,
the
animals
doing
their
business
in
the
street.
I
know
it's
carriage
related
buses.
We
also
with
the
buses
improved
the
permitting
process,
the
perimeter
routes.
J
We
have
had
technology
with
gis
to
give
the
bus
drivers
prior
to
coming
to
charleston
an
interactive
map
on
their
on
their
phone,
that
they
could
it
pull
up
before
they
get
to
charleston
and
find
their
way
around.
We've
implemented
a
gps
capability
with
carriages
to
report,
all
the
spills
and
I
think,
you're
not
getting
enough
quality
of
life,
because
I
think
we
really
working
on
those
issues
to
with
those
balances
between
the
the
industries
of
tourism
and
and
residential.
We
enacted
order
ordinances
with
the
walking
tours
and
blocking
sidewalks.
J
B
Say
there
there's
some
issues
that
affect
quality
of
life
in
in
the
tourist
industry,
the
hospitality
industry
that
really
don't
fall
within
your
purview
and,
for
instance,
you
know
I
my
office
is
downtown.
I'm
downtown
a
lot
and
a
group
of
folks
were
saying,
like
the
amount
of
litter
and
the
condition
of
cleanliness
in
the
city
seems
to
be
seems
to
have
fallen
off
dramatically
again.
I
don't
know
if
that's
partly
coveted
or
what,
but
you
know
we
would
in
talking
to
roy
owen
yesterday.
B
O
B
C
I
think
that
you
know
if
I
could
jump
in
real,
quick
as
the
chair
as
the
chairman,
you
do
have
some
ability
to
ask
for
a
meeting
work
with
staff.
Get
an
agenda
item
put
on
that
might
be,
for
example,
homelessness
issues.
Vagrants
might
be
litter.
Now
we
have
to
be
careful,
because
this
is
the
tourism
commission
and
a
subcommittee
of
the
tourism
commission,
and
we
there's
no
clear
line
of
demarcation
here.
Obviously,
litter
affects
tourism.
Tourists
can
affect
litter,
but
that
is
also
a
a
broader
issue.
C
B
Well,
one
thing
I
thought
about,
and
maybe
maybe
it's
more
within
michael's
responsibility
is
possibly
poll
each
member
of
the
commission
and
see
what
other
issues
they
may
like
to
to
bring
forward.
Like
maybe
ask
for
three
you
know
from
from
each
member
of
the
commission
and
then
we
can
get
a
consensus
of
what
everybody's
thinking
and
you
know,
work
from
there.
N
N
L
B
J
The
mission
and
role
of
the
tourism
commission,
the
the
mission
and
role
of
the
tourism
commission,
is
to
basically
enact
ordinances
that
govern
the
tourism
industry
itself.
What
you're
referring
to
are
impactful
to
tourism.
However,
it
is
not
under
the
purview
and
correct
me
from
around
tim
and
mallory
under
your
decision-making
process
as
a
body,
a
voting
body
to
agree
or
disagree
on
homelessness,
that's
basically
handled
by
our
community
development,
folks
with
the
police
department
to
address
with
that
litter.
J
Yes,
it
impacts
the
tourism,
but
it's
also
impacting
the
citizens
and
the
businesses,
so
it's
a
broader
scale
of
our
decision-making
process
and
what
we're
capable
of
deciding
on
to
to
to
enact
an
ordinance
or
whatever
for
discussion.
Yes
to
to
be
a
conduit
to
resolve
the
issues,
absolutely
we're
always
willing
to
engage,
but
I
think
the
purpose
of
this
body
is
to
ensure
that
all
the
ordinances
pertaining
to
tourism
and
the
tourism
regulations
and
industry
are
under
your
purview.
N
N
All
night
there
needs,
and
let
me
go
on
record
as
saying
that
I
too
am
a
big
fan
of
dan
riccio
and,
and
I
would
be
just
as
happy
that
he'd
never
be
replaced,
and
I
would
hope
that
if
he
decides
to
retire,
then
that
has
to
come
before
this
commission
but
anyway,
having
said
that,
my
starting
point
is
is
when,
when
I
first
came
on
the
commission,
this
is
a
blue
binder
that
I
was
given
and
inside
here.
Is
you
can't
read
it
but
I'll
read
it
for
you.
N
Ensure
second
bullet
point
ensure
that
visitors
can
enjoy
the
historic
and
cultural
aspects
of
the
city's
heritage,
consistent
with
the
maintenance
of
the
environmental
quality
of
life
of
its
citizens.
Third
bullet
point
make
policy
recommendations
to
the
mayor
and
city
council,
as
will
further
the
goals
of
tourism
management.
N
N
L
Can
I
speak
I'd
like
to
say
I
agree
completely.
We've
tried
to
bring
this
up
in
various
ways
over
the
last
last
couple
of
committee
meetings
and
we're
immediately
told
that
we
have
a
very
specific
role
that
I
don't
see
is
officially
that
specific,
I
think,
we're
trying
to
say.
We
would
like
to
participate
in
areas
that
directly
affect
tourism
as
other
ways.
We're
not
saying
that
we're
trying
to
make
laws.
L
We're
saying
you're,
trying
to
stop
us
from
talking
about
this,
perhaps
indirectly
about
talking
about
some
different
issues
before
we
can
even
get
started
with
them.
So
I
think
it
would
not
hurt
us
to
be
able
to
have
some
discussion
time
as
a
committee
and
discuss
these
various
areas
and
perhaps
something
positive
can
come
out
of
it.
L
And
then
you
can
tell
us
if
we're
overstepping,
when
we
start
to
come
up
with
some
suggestions
that
I
too
joined
this
committee
in
hopes
of
being
able
to
participate
more
than
regulating
the
carriage
industry
and
I'd
like
the
opportunity
to
do
that.
I
don't
mean
that
you're
intentionally
doing
anything
to
stop
us.
I
understand
where
you're
coming
from.
L
B
B
C
I
understand
what
you're
saying
and
I
learn.
I
agree
in
many
respects,
with
what
you're
saying.
I
think
that
everybody
should
look
at
section
29-33
the
duties
and
responsibilities.
Mr
owen
read
from
it,
but
I'm
not
sure
if,
if
that
was
the
most
recent
version,
the
online
version
states,
it
was
amended
in
2019.
C
It
had
a
few
words
that
were
different.
Of
course
we
have
to
make
policy
recommendations
relating
to
tourism
management.
That's
number
two,
the
the
more
broad
one
is
the
first
one
oversee
the
broad
range
of
tourism-related
matters.
It
probably
would
be
inappropriate
for
this
subcommittee
or
the
tourism
commission
to
tackle
homelessness
is
a
problem.
However,
it
may
be
appropriate
to
talk
about
how
those
issues
interact
with
tourism
and
it
may
be
appropriate
to
ask
questions
and
make
recommendations.
C
N
O
Just
what
would
be
you
know
some
focal
points
or
areas
for
discussion
and
then
we
could
align
it
to
see
with
what
you
know
what
our
scope
is
in
terms
of
the
mission
itself
but
and
dan.
Maybe
that's,
maybe
that's
something
for
your
team
to
listen
to
just
either
communicating
some
of
the
things
that
you're
doing
more
efficiently
to
the
subcommittee
level
and
or
you
know,
making
a
list
or
you
know
again,
it's
not
any
fault
of
your
own.
J
Correct
and
that's
a
that's
a
good
point:
we
work
very
closely
with
the
police
department
and
our
homeless
coordinators
and
dealing
with
the
issues
that
you're
coming
up
with
and
I'm
no
way
trying
to
disparage
anybody's
motivation.
We
need
you
as
a
group
as
a
body
to
move
forward.
Unfortunately,
carriages
are
always
at
the
top.
I
don't
know
why.
J
We
will
hear
your
concerns
with
other
issues
relating
to
the
effects
on
tourism,
but
unfortunately
this
may
not
be
the
body
to
regulate
that
or
but
the
thing
is,
it
is
a
body
that
we
can
reach
out
to
other
portions
of
the
city
that
are
responsible
for
those
efforts
and
combine
somehow
our
efforts,
whether
as
an
official
member
of
a
commission
or
as
a
citizen
helping
another
group
of
the
city
that
is
dealing
with
the
homelessness
and
and
things
of
that
nature.
So
I
hope
I
didn't
discourage
anyone.
J
A
If,
if
all
the
subcommittee
members
would
be
so
kind
to
send,
just
to
just
for
the
starting
off
jumping
point
there
you're
more
than
welcome
to
email
me,
let's
just
say
right
at
first,
maybe
if
dan
and
amy,
if
you're,
okay,
with
this
two
or
three
two
or
three
talking
points,
two
or
three
points
that
you'd
like
to
discuss,
we
could
try
to
set
a.
We
try
to
set
another
quality
of
life
subcommittee
meeting
within
within,
say
the
next
two
months
and
I'd
be
happy
to
put.
A
So
we
can
discuss
in
the
meeting.
You
know
what
what
may
we
can
just
talk
about,
whether
it
is
something
within
our
parameters
and
whether
you
know
what
other
departments
it
might
involve
and
and
further
that
discussion,
but
I'd
be
more
than
I'm
always
more
than
happy
to
answer
those
questions
and
try
to
put
something
together.
Any
commission
member
is
more
than
welcome
to
contact
me
and
ask
for
something
to
be
put
on
the
agenda.
B
And
for
our
new
commissioner,
our
news
commission
members,
like
I
remember
last
time-
and
I
think
michael
was-
was
around
too
like
you
guys
brought
in
chief
reynolds
and
we
had
a
a
dialogue
with
chief
reynolds
about.
You
know
what
was
going
on
with
with
the
city
and
stuff,
and
I
think
I
think
that's
the
kind
of
thing
that
everyone
would
really
appreciate,
and
you
know
have
the
opportunity
to
to
meet
with
some
of
the
decision
makers
on
on
some
of
these
issues
that
we're
concerned
about.
J
And-
and
I
totally
100
percent
agree-
and
I
think
our
disconnect
now
is
unfortunately
covered
in
zoom
getting
in
person
and
you
know
getting
together
seems
to
be
a
little
more
helpful
but
yeah
we,
we
have
been
addressing
issues
all
along.
We
have
invited
guests
to
the
podium
and
to
address
these
issues,
but
lee
I
you
know,
that's
cool
I
would
even
go
further-
is
to
put
it
on
an
item
of
our
upcoming
commission
whole
commission
to
to
talk
about
coming
up
in
at
the
end
of
the
month.
J
J
As
a
result,
city
council
are
meeting
remotely
they
met
at
the
james
island
rec
center.
Last
time.
I
I
think
it's
the
bees
landing
recreation
center
next
time,
a
much
more
open
facility
due
to
the
nature
of
of
city
council
logistics
in
the
building,
it's
smaller
and
and
things
of
that
nature.
Less
people
can
come
so
we're
hoping
with
more.
I
know
it
sounds
cliche
with
the
more
people
to
get
vaccinated
and
able
to
do
it.
You
know.
H
N
J
J
J
N
O
I
mean
this
has
come
up
before
in
our
previous
meetings
and
we
just
have
never
had
time
to
address
it,
but
I
think
it's
a
worthwhile
endeavor
and
it's
something
that
we
we
need
to
support
and
so
certainly
reaching
out
and
starting
the
conversation
at
the
subcommittee,
which
is
the
process
so
letting
those
chairmen
get
to
get
together
some
information.
And
then
we
can
report
out
at
our
next
meeting.