►
Description
City of Charleston Tourism Commission Route, Parking and Tourism Rules 6/9/21
D
Okay,
members
of
the
commission
councilwoman
del
chapo
city
staff,
my
name
is
tyler
jones.
With
charleston
cares.
We
are
made
up
of
old
south
carriage
company
palmetto
carriageworks
and
charleston
carriageworks.
So
thanks.
So
thanks
for
having
me
tonight-
and
I
want
to
thank
city
staff
for
for
everything
they've
done
over
the
last
year
during
covid
and
their
patience
and
diligence
over
the
last
year
dealing
with
the
issue
that
is
in
front
of
you
now.
D
Here
we
are
again
desperately
trying
to
satisfy
a
group
of
people
who
are
impossible
to
satisfy
unless
banning
all
carriage
tours
is
in
any
of
these
ordinances.
They
are
never
going
to
be
satisfied
and
they're.
Never
going
away.
This
city,
council
and
the
city
tourism
commission
is
well
acquainted
with
the
demands
of
this
group.
D
For
the
last
year,
city
staff
has
bent
over
backwards
to
make
sense
of
their
nonsensical
demands
and
to
fashion
of
fair
ordinance
requires
the
partici
participation
of
people
who
want
a
solution
more
than
they
want
to
keep
the
issue
before
council
and
the
commission
until
they
get
their
way.
And
for
years
now,
the
carriage
companies
have
endured
harassment
and
relentless
attacks
from
this
political
political
group.
D
You
all
have
seen
it
for
years
and
for
the
new
commissioners
you
probably
have
as
well
yet
here
we
are
again
giving
them
a
year
of
city,
time,
city
resources,
city,
tax
dollars
and
a
year
of
our
time-
and
I
don't
have
to
remind
you
all-
that
this
past
year
has
been
the
most
difficult
in
the
history
of
our
community
and
the
history
of
carriage
tours
here
and
for
small
businesses.
Everywhere.
D
Covid
was
devastating
for
our
businesses
and
we
are
just
now
getting
back
to
something
approaching
normal
and
just
when
we
can
see
the
light
at
the
end
of
the
tunnel.
Instead
of
focusing
on
growing
our
businesses
and
recouping
our
losses
from
the
past
year,
we're
back
here
again
fighting
again
for
our
existence
all
because
a
very
loud
and
very
small
minority
of
politically
connected
residents
hired
a
high-priced
new
york
city
attorney
to
write
an
impractical
ordinance
that
the
city
has
given
a
year
of
its
time
and
the
ordinance
itself.
D
It's
comedic
how
unrealistic
and
unserious
it
is
the
people
who
wrote
it
have
no
knowledge
of
carriage
tours
or
horses.
They
don't
know
how
our
opera,
they
don't
know
anything
about
our
operations
because
many
of
the
things
they
call
for
we
already
do
and
the
rest
of
what
they
call
for
is
completely
unnecessary
and
arbitrary.
D
So,
although
the
carriage
companies
think
this
entire
exercise
is
futile
and
unnecessary
and
rewards
bad
behavior,
we
are
willing
to
compromise
in
order
to
continue
our
objective
of
being
the
safest
and
best
run
carriage
community
in
the
country
and
the
men
and
women
who
care
for
their
horses
and
conduct
tours
here.
Take
pride
in
being
the
gold
standard
for
carriage
tours
in
the
country,
and
we
are.
D
D
It's
to
hurt
us
and
monopolize
your
time,
this
commission's
time
and
our
time-
and
I
I
know
what
that's
like
a
couple
years
ago,
I
was
deposed
by
their
group's
attorney,
mr
green,
for
the
better
part
of
six
hours,
just
fishing
for
something
they
could
take
out
of
context
to
make
our
community
look
bad
and
it's
and
after
six
hours
they
gave
up
and
instead
resorted
to
this.
So
members
of
the
commission,
we
are
tired
of
this
game.
D
We
are
tired
of
trying
to
operate
our
businesses
while
having
to
fight
these
battles
with
the
same
group
every
few
months
in
front
of
this
commission
trust
me,
you
have
better
things
to
do
on
this
commission
than
to
deal
with
the
same
issue
repeatedly.
So
I
ask
you
to
send
a
message
today
reject
this
nonsense.
D
Don't
let
this
group
hold
the
commission
hostage
any
longer
and
don't
let
them
monopolize
city
resources
like
they
have
done
for
so
long
carriage
tours
are
the
iconic
backbone
of
charleston
tourism
and
charleston's
economy
depends
on
tourism.
We
are
the
number
one
tourist
attraction
in
this
city
for
a
reason:
we've
had
a
hell
of
a
year
as
have
all
working
americans,
but
don't
kick
us
while
we're
down
don't
provide
ammunition
to
a
privileged
political
group
whose
sole
purpose
is
to
take
us
down
and
take
us
out.
D
So
I
ask
that
you
follow
the
lead
of
your
colleagues
on
the
tour
guide
subcommittee,
who
just
yesterday,
rejected
all
of
these
proposals.
This
isn't
the
time,
nor
is
any
of
this
needed.
I
am
here
ready
to
answer
any
and
all
questions
you
may
have
over
the
course
of
this
meeting,
and
I
thank
you
for
your
service
to
the
commission
and
to
our
city.
E
Great
I'm
happy
to
go
on
camera
if
it's
easier
for
everyone
to
see
who
you're
talking
to,
but
I
I
I
don't
have
anything
to
share
on
my
screen.
So
I
I
want
to
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
appear
here
today.
My
name
is
nicholas
green.
I
live
in
ragboro
with
my
my
three
kids
and
my
wife,
and
this
is
the
second
night
in
a
row.
I've
had
to
sit
through
that
actually,
and
I
I
just
want
to
correct
one
thing:
I
am
a
high
priced
attorney,
that's
true!
E
I
I
do
represent
major
clients
at
a
major
international
law
firm.
I
am
not
a
new
york
city
attorney,
nor
have
I
been
hired
by
charleston
carriage
works,
I've
I'm
doing
this
pro
bono
and
I
started
working
with
them
when
mr
jones's
client
sued
mine,
leading
to
that
deposition,
where
I'm
protecting
their
first
amendment
rights.
E
We
have
tweaks
and
additions.
We
would
like
to
see,
of
course,
but
what
they
proposed
is
a
dramatic
improvement
over
the
status
quo.
As
mr
riccio
stated
in
his
cover
letter
to
you,
the
ordinance
represents
a
thoughtful
dialogue
between
him
and
and
certainly
myself
and,
and
I
assume
other
stakeholders
and
reflects
the
the
departments
and
legal
view
of
an
ordinance.
That's
balanced,
enforceable
and
appropriate.
E
I
I
don't
know
exactly
what
the
amendments
put
forward
by
charleston
cares
are
attempting
to
do.
I
I
can't
tell
whether
they
oppose
any
additional
regulation
if
they
are
okay
with
certain
things,
but
not,
but
we
hear
time
and
again
that
they
already
play
by
these
rules
and
therefore
nothing
is
necessary,
in
which
case,
of
course,
they
shouldn't
have
a
problem
codifying
them
and
ensuring
that
every
member
of
the
industry,
because
they
do
not
actually
represent
every
carriage
organization,
is
playing
by
the
same
rules.
E
Ms
shearer
is,
I
suspect,
going
to
walk
you
through
the
department's
proposed
ordinance
and,
and
specifically
the
sections
that
are
before
you
today
in
this
committee,
but
I
do
want
to
just
make
a
couple
of
comments
on
it.
Why
is
this
important
like?
Why
are
we
even
here?
Why
did
we?
Why
did
we
propose
this?
E
E
I
just
want
things
to
be
safe
in
the
city,
and
I
I
want
to
know
what's
going
on
when
I'm
walking
with
my
four-year-old
down
the
street,
you
know
is
that
animal
trained
has
the
animal
been
working
on
the
streets
of
charleston
for
a
day
or
a
decade
that
matters
to
me,
and
I
think
it
matters
to
our
visitors
as
well,
and
it
matters
to
the
charleston
brand.
I
do
agree
with
mr
jones
that
charleston
has
an
extremely
strong
tourism
brand
and
we've
worked
really
really
hard
to
develop
it.
But
what?
E
We
can't
allow
ourselves
to
look
back
and
say:
was
there
something
more
we
could
have
done
and
what
does
it
say
about
our
brand
that
we
gave
up
the
opportunity
to
do
it
when
we
had
the
chance
to
because
it
will
happen,
that's
inevitable
and
we've
accepted
that
as
the
cost
of
doing
business
in
the
city?
Okay,
fine,
let's
move
on
from
that
and
think
about
ways
that
we
can
do
it
as
safely
as
possible,
because
the
quality
of
our
visitor
experience
simply
means
too
much.
E
Now
there
are
things
we
would
like
to
see.
Added
to
the
department's
proposed
ordinance
breaks,
that's
what
they
have
in
savannah:
inspection
of
the
barns
annually
by
the
health
department
of
the
fire
department.
Why
not
or
having
inspection
of
tax
and
equipment
by
an
independent
youth
fund
manager?
E
I
will
note
that
I
am
especially
supportive
of
the
provision
requiring
inspection
by
a
licensed
professional
of
the
carriages
on
an
annual
basis.
These
are
homemade
contraptions,
there's
no
other
way
of
put
of
saying
it.
They
are
not
built
in
a
factory
that
builds
17-person
carriages.
We
are
the
only
city
with
these
large
carriages
they
are
bespoke
and
the
people
who
made
them
do
not
have
training
to
do
it.
E
E
There
is
no
such
thing
as
a
perfect
law,
and
so
don't
I'm
not
trying
to
let
the
perfect
be
the
enemy
of
the
good
here,
but
there
are
two
things
that
I
do
want
to
note
that
I
think
demonstrate
our
goals
and
the
reasonableness
of
what
we've
attempted
to
do.
The
first
is
that
we've
proposed
a
simple
reporting
requirement
that
any
time
an
animal
comes
into
a
touring
herd,
the
operator
simply
file
a
statement
with
the
city
saying
here's
the
animal
their
name.
E
Microchip
number
has
the
animal
worked
in
an
urban
environment
before
or
charleston,
and
where
did
the
animal
come
from?
That's
it.
The
department
of
livability
makes
that
available
on
the
website.
It
is
there's
no
other
attachment
to
it.
It
is
simply
an
education
exercise
for
the
public
and
visitors,
because,
if
I'm
going
to
take
a
carriage
to
a
ride,
I
may
want
to
look
and
see.
E
E
What
we
proposed
was
not
to
impose
any
specific
training
program
on
them,
but
rather
here
are
the
things
you
need
to
do:
teach
about
equine
safety,
etc
and
and
develop
a
written
structured
program
and
submit
it
to
the
city
for
review.
That's
it.
The
the
department's
proposed
ordinance
adopts
the
kona
standards.
You
might
ask
yourself
what
is
that?
E
It's
the
trade
association
for
the
carriage
industry,
their
their
actually
mission,
is
to
support
the
you
know,
carriages
in
new
york
or
chicago,
and
any
number
of
jurisdictions
that
actually
are
moving
away
from
carriages,
unlike
charleston,
and
so
their
website
says
that
those
standards
are
designed
to
make
your
business
a
profitable
one.
It
doesn't
say
anything
about
safe,
but,
more
importantly,
what
are
we
doing
enshrining
this
inside
of
a
city
ordinance,
this
private
trade
association,
and
I
have
not
actually
reviewed
these
guidelines
because
they
are
not
available
to
the
public.
E
I'm
not
a
member
of
this
organization.
So
I
would
encourage
you
to
on
those
particular
points,
adopt
our
language
in
toto
and
ask
mashira
mr
riccio
to
to
include
that
and
then
move
the
rest
of
their
ordinance
and
as
well
as
anything
else.
You
want
to
include
in
there
on
to
the
full
commission
and
council
with
a
do
pass
recommendation
and
I'm
going
to
stay
on
the
line
and
please
feel
free
to
ask
me
any
questions
as
you're
as
you're
speaking
happy
to
answer.
F
F
I've
been
part
of
the
carriage
community
here
in
charleston
for
over
25
years.
I'm
asking
that
your
subcommittee
take
the
same
action
that
last
night's
subcommittee
took
and
recommend
disapproval
of
the
anti-carriage
group's
request
to
rewrite
the
ordinance
some
committee
members
last
night
recognized
both
how
difficult
a
time
this
is
for
businesses
all
businesses
and
the
decades-long
pattern
of
harassment
by
ellen
hawley's.
Various
academic
groups
that
seek
to
ban
carriages.
F
F
F
F
F
As
such,
I
ask
that
you
recommend
this
approval
of
the
ordinance
rewrite
in
preparation
for
the
full
commission
meeting
on
the
23rd
of
this
month.
I
also
encourage
all
of
you
to
spend
some
time
reading
the
anti-carriage
group's
social
media
pages
to
see
what
they
are
about
for
yourselves.
I'm
sure
mr
green
can
provide
the
links.
C
H
I
H
I
think
that
it's
probably
better
if
people
didn't
sign
up
that
they're
not
going
to
be
able
to
provide
comment,
they
can
always
provide
written
comment.
There's
going
to
be
a
full
tourism
commission
meeting
and
I
will
say
to
everybody
who
is
listening,
that
I
would
encourage
you
to
submit
written
comments
to
the
city
which
can
then
be
distributed
to
all
members,
because,
again,
we'll
do
the
same
thing
at
the
tourism
commission
meeting.
If
we
have
10
people
who
need
to
speak,
everybody
might
only
get
a
minute
or
two
minutes
to
speak.
H
I
C
C
C
Our
staff
carefully
reviewed
the
proposal
and
worked
over
many
months
with
the
city
legal
department
to
draft
a
preliminary
ordinance
and
response.
The
city
drafted
a
proposal
that
we
believed
to
be
effective,
enforceable
and
legally
proper.
The
version
was
shared
with
the
carriage
industry
and
the
charleston
carriage
force
advocates.
C
Representatives
of
the
carriage
industry
generally
agree,
but
responded
with
some
recommendations.
Charleston
carriage
horse
advocates
attorney,
nicholas
greene
after
a
review
of
the
city.
Ordinance
asked
that
their
original
proposal
to
go
before
the
tourism
commission,
as
as
written
along
with
our
proposal,
the
tourism
commission
and
its
subcommittees,
are
asked
to
review
the
city
of
charleston.
Preliminary
amendments
exhibit
one
the
charleston
carriage
horse
advocates
proposal
exhibit
two
and
their
response
to
from
the
representatives
of
the
carriage
industry
exhibit
three.
The
two.
C
Each
committee
will
report
their
entire
will
report
to
the
entire
tourism
commission
at
the
meeting
on
june
23rd.
And
if
the
commission
passes
a
recommendation,
it
will
be
sent
to
city
council
for
their
review
and
decision
as
to
whether
to
pass
as
whether
to
pass
what
is
recommended
to
reject
it
or
to
modify.
J
Thank
you
well,
I'd
like
to
first
off.
Thank
you
know
thank
the
city
staff
for
all
the
work
that
they
did.
Like
everybody
has
said,
they
did
spend
a
significant
amount
of
time
going
through
everything.
I
would
also
like
to
thank
both
sides.
The
advocates
both
for
the
carriage
horses
and
the
the
advocare
tourist
advocates,
a
lot
of
work
and
a
lot
of
thoughtfulness
was
put
forth
by
both
sides
and
city
staff
did
a
great
job.
J
I
think,
trying
to
put
a
night
a
fair,
reasonable
ordinance
forward
for
y'all
to
be
considering,
as
lee
stated,
I'm
going
to
go
through
several
sections
for
y'all
to
consider
I'm
going
to
screen
share,
since
you
all
have
that
in
your
packets,
I'm
going
to
go
kind
of
quickly
just
for
the
just
for
time.
Considerations
but
y'all
are
welcome
to
jump
in
and
ask
questions,
otherwise,
I'm
happy
to
go
through
anything
when
we
are
finished
so
give
me
a
moment.
While
I
screen.
I
J
J
What
we
propose
to
be
adding
to
the
city
ordinance
is
having
annual
training.
This
first
section
is
focused
on
having
approved
training
for
tour
guides
and
the
carriage
operators,
basically
in
the
accordance
of
that
the
carriage
horse
organization
of
north
america,
which
is
what
they
were
discussing
earlier
kona,
which
does
have
basic
standards
in
terms
of
training.
J
J
J
The
next
section
that
we're
asking
you
all
to
consider
is
just
to
help
ensure
that
some
that
the
equipment
is
is
standard
and
proper.
The
collars
for
the
harness
should
obviously
be
appropriately
sized.
The
harnesses
collars,
blinders
bits
and
bridles
should
be
safe,
not
frayed,
and
be
adequately
prepared.
J
Then
we're
going
to
scroll
down.
I
think
the
next
section
is
nine
that
we
are
looking
at
and
we
are
here
just
adding
that
there
would
be
a
required
for
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
that
everybody
is
obviously
in
compliance
with
this
ordinance.
You
just
gotta
ensure
that
we
do
have
the
capability
to
be
moving.
It
forward.
J
Sorry,
so
then,
when
the
next
section
that
we're
looking
at
we're,
we
are
asking
that
the
carriages
start
to
follow
all
posted
traffic
signs,
including
stop
signs
currently
right
now.
My
understanding
is,
they
can
roll
through
and
we're
just
asking
them
to
follow
the
same
rules
of
the
road
as
other
vehicles.
J
If
they
are
operating,
you
know,
after
sundown
we
are
asking
that
they
do
inform.
You
know
the
receive
written
consent
from
the
department
of
livability.
This
is
just
once
again
because
of
the
visibility
at
night
time,
something
that
the
city
staff
did
feel
was
important
to
be
added
and
codified
within
our
ordinance.
J
The
last
section
that
I'm
that
we're
asking
for
y'all
to
consider
today
is
that
the
employee
that
the
carriage
companies
do
designate
at
least
one
employee
per
shift
to
be
trained
in
on
equine
triage
or
first
aid
to
be
able
to
be
deployed.
Should
there
be
an
equine
emergency.
This
is
just
having
basic
safety
standard
training
and
just
ensuring
that
all
of
that
does
does
take
place.
J
They're,
also
requiring
that
every
poor
equine
involved
in
a
reportable
accident
must
be
inspected
by
a
licensed
equine
vet
certifying
that
the
animal
is
able
and
ready
to
return
to
service
in
any
animal
in
any
animal
that
is
involved
in
a
reportable
accident
incident
needs
to
be
once
again
inspected
before
service.
So
these
are
the
the
sections
that
we're
asking
for
y'all
to
look
at
today.
J
I
I
This
seems
to
be
an
ordinance
that
was
written
by
a
anti-carriage
organization
right
or,
and
then
given
to
the
city
as
a
a
project.
Is
that
is
that
normal?
Like?
Does
the
hotel
association?
Give
you
all
a
nightly
rental,
anti-nightly
rental
ordinance
to
put
in
place
or
review
like
I,
it
seems
like
you
guys
would
have
written
it,
but
instead
this
was
guided
by
outside.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
I
understand
that
process
as
outlined.
J
Wrote
it
we
reviewed
it.
If
you
compare
the
two,
you
will
see
some
additives
from
the
city
that
was
not
even
included
in
the
original
submitted
by
the
advocates,
I
believe
the
lights,
and
the
times
was
something
that
city
staff
reviewed
best
practices
in
other
communities.
I
believe
savannah
was
one,
and
so
there
is
a
significant
amount
of
input
that
the
city
took,
and
this
is
what
the
city
staff
felt
was
important
to
have
added
to
to
our
ordinance.
G
So
it
is
not
normal
for
anybody
to
come
up
and
just
say
here:
here's
a
set
of
ordinances
that
we
want
passed
and
that's
why
we
really
thoughtfully.
Over
several
months.
It
was
mallory
myself,
amy,
sutherland,
lee
burbidge,
shannon
tillman
equine
manager
literally
went
through
all
of
these,
and
we
did
feel
that
the
concerns
were
were
were
real
and
we
felt
that
this
would
be
especially
tonight's
ish
issue
in
the
subcommittee
is
important.
G
You
know
it's
basically
tweaking
and
adding
a
little
bit
to
what
we
already
have,
but
it
does
make
sense
for
training
and
and
equipment
to
be
in
the
right
manner.
So
yeah
I
mean
we
normally.
If,
if
someone
gives
a
proposal
to
the
city,
it
goes
to
legal
and
the
staff
members
directly
involved,
and
that's
what
we
did.
We
just
kind
of
worked
backwards
with
it.
We
were
given
it
up
front.
G
I
explained
to
city
council
that
that's
not
how
the
city
protocol
works,
and
then
we
went
back
to
the
table
as
a
group.
We
vetted
it.
We
researched,
we
did
homework
and
really
thoughtfully,
went
through
this
to
see
what
was
reasonable
and
that's
what
we
came
up
with
this
document
that
we
felt
was
equitable.
I
I
Yeah
I'm
looking
at
this
and
wondering
which
of
these
isn't
important
to
a
carriage
operator,
because
it
seems
like
these
would
all
be
very
important
to
them
that
they're,
safe,
that
they're
trained
and
that
their
equipment
works.
That
would
be
a
going
concern
of
any
licensed
business
in
our
community.
So.
G
A
Nature,
chairman,
you
know
part
of
what
the
discussion
was
last
night
was
what
you
pointed
out
earlier,
which
is
being
that
the
spirit
of
this
particular
ordinance
came
from
an
opposing
group
to
the
horse
carriage
industry.
Is
that
a
concern
right
is
that
is
because
of
where
it
comes
from?
Do
we
have
to
be
concerned
that
the
language
and
the
spirit
of
it
is
not
needed
and
or
a
reasonable
person
would
say?
A
Are
they
not
addressing
the
things
that
the
dan
just
described
the
training
and
the
design
and
the
safety
and
the
compliance
and
and
does?
Does
the
livability
have
a
have
a
reason
to
doubt
that,
and
I
haven't
seen
it
I
you
know,
I
haven't
seen
any
kind
of
concern
or
approach
that
says
that
they're
not
doing
the
things
they
have.
In
fact,
just
on
the
training
alone,
we
learned
last
night
that
they
do
a
hundred
hours
of
training
before
they're
even
allowed
to
go
out
and
take
part
into
a
tour.
A
So
I'm
just
curious
as
to
comes
back
to
what
we
discussed.
Is
this
the
right
time
to
put
these
kinds
of
additional
regulations
in
place
and
number
two
are
we?
Are
we
assuming
that
they're
not
being
done
already
right
because
of
what
you
said
that
a
reasonable
business
would
do
that
already,
just
in
its
own
spirit,.
J
J
G
And
another
position,
I
would
like
to
add
that
obviously
one
of
the
most
common
issues
we
have
is
a
a
carriage
incident
or
accident
horse
gets
you
know
spooked
or
whatever,
and
we
felt
that
the
having
a
a
educated
certified,
some
type
of
triage
equine
person
on
staff
is
very
important
because,
quite
frankly
we
don't
see
that
across
the
board.
I'm
not
saying
cares.
We
have
the
cares
group,
and
then
we
have
one
company
not
in
the
cares
group,
so
we
have
to
like
mallory
said,
be
consistent
across
the
board.
G
That's
why
the
standards
need
to
be
met
and
and
implement
it,
but
with
to
me
having
a
triage
person
to
to
first
respond
before
any
vet
gets
on
the
scene.
I
feel
is
very
important,
but
we
lost
an
equine
because
of
that
this
past
year,
and
and
that's
you
know
and
again,
a
lot
of
this
is
all
of
this
is
important.
G
I
J
I
G
I
will
say
that
the
all
the
carriage
companies
don't
belong
to
cares.
There
is
a
slight
division,
not
saying
that
they
all
don't
adhere
to
that,
but
I
think,
since
it's
not
one
total
carriage
group,
it's
hard
to
set
a
set
of
standards
for
one
and
not
the
other.
It's
got
to
be.
You
know
across
the
board
and
we
discussed
it
at
length
with
kona.
G
They
are
one
of
the
only
probably
the
only
national
organization,
and
we
we,
we
reviewed
their
training
and
their
guidelines,
and
I
know
there
was
mention
to
trade
organizations.
I
don't
really
concern
myself
with
that.
I
concern
myself
with
their
standards
and
them
being
a
legal
codified
entity
that
we
can
look
to
for
some
type
of
guidance
and
that's
what
we
did
with
this
ordinance.
Let's,
let's
be
real
here
carriage
industries.
G
It's
it's
not
a
typical.
You
know
you
can't
go
to
a
gas
station
and
get
your
vehicle,
your
carriage
fixed,
it's
it's
a
different
entity
with
different
standards,
and
we
understand
that
so
we
we,
you
know,
have
to
roll
with
punches,
but
we
felt
that
kona
was
a
strong
organization
with
very
good
standards
that
were
national
and
we
felt
that
was
important
to
follow
instead
of
just
saying.
J
K
That's
okay.
I
I
agree
with
following
you
know:
a
national
standard.
You
know
we
we're
not
in
the
carriage
industry,
you
know
I
don't
it
would
be
like
me
trying
to
tell,
and
you
know,
an
airline
how
to
operate.
You
know
you
look
to
those
people
who
are
in
that
and
they
deal
with
this
day
in
and
day
out
and
they're
experts
in
it.
So
if
there's
a
national
entity
that
sets
these
kind
of
standards,
I
think
that
that
levels
the
playing
field
and
makes
it
fair.
K
You
know
I
do
some
of
the
you
know
what
I'm
kind
of
hearing
from
other
comments
is,
you
know
and
a
lot
of
times
what
I
feel
is
where,
where
we
like
overly
regulating,
you
know
and-
and
you
know,
maybe
holding
different
businesses-
you
know
from
your
point
to
people,
you
know
we
don't
we
don't
overhaul
what
a
hotel
can
charge
per
night
because
somebody
is
upset
by
it.
I
think
the
process
we're
going
through
now
with
this
coming
through
the
appropriate
committee
and
then
going
to
council.
K
K
You
know,
I'm
I'm
all
for
safety,
for
the
folks
who
work
at
the
carriage
companies
for
those
animals
for
people
who
are
participating
and
getting
that
experience
of
a
carriage
ride
for
people
who
live
here.
People
who
work
here
you
know,
that's
that's
my
number
one
job
as
an
elected
official
is
public
safety,
so
any
sort
of
safety
parameters,
I'm
I'm
all
for.
K
I
guess
sometimes
where
I,
where
I
start
to
where
I
start
to
struggle
a
little
bit
and
and
like
to
hear
of
what
other
cities
do
is
are
we
are
we
at
all,
maybe
going
too
far
pushing
the
needle
too
far?
And
I'm
not
saying
we
are
I'm
just
I'm
just
throwing
that
question
out
there
of
you
know.
What's
what's
the
sense
I
will
be,
I
will
be
brutally
honest
and
I
think
that
the
advocates
group
their
ordinance
it
it
that
that
pushed
way
too
far.
K
They've
come
together
and
they
you
know,
kind
of
set
their
own
standards
and
their
own
advocacy
and
hold
each
other
accountable,
which
is
a
great
thing
to
do
more
and
just
you
know
more
businesses
should
do
that
with
each
other
and
collaborate.
You
know
I
think,
somewhere
in
between
those
two.
I
think
we
have
something
that
that
upholds
public
safety,
which
is
what
we
want
to
do.
I
know
that's
what
dan
wants
to
do.
That's
what
his
office
does.
K
Specifically,
if
I
look
at
like,
for
example,
the
lights
you
know
in
the
city
we
have
the
adequate
led
lighting
and
high
reflectivity
markers
cares,
recommended
dot,
approved
lights.
I'm
curious
what
the
difference
between
that
is.
I
is
an
outsider
when
I
see
like
d.o.t
approved
that
seems
to
me
safer.
K
K
K
C
As
to
the
as
to
the
dot
lighting,
I'm
not
entirely,
I'm
not
I'm
not
sure
what
the
difference
between
the
led
versus
the
dot
lighting
and
which
would
be,
which
would
be
stronger
or
safer.
I
do
know
that
the
so
the
current
ordnance
with
the
lighting,
because
this
has
been
this-
has
been
an
issue
in
the
past,
with
with
some
in
the
rain.
Where
again
consist
it
was
some
carriage.
Some
of
the
companies
had
more
than
adequate
lighting,
others,
it
was
lower.
C
If
it
was
raining,
you
know
different
things
like
that,
which
is
why
we
went
with
the
led
lighting
because,
or
we
were
looking
even
at
we
looked
at
defining
how
many
lumens
each
light
could
be.
However,
lumens
is
not
a
gener,
a
generally
accepted
standard
of
a
lighting
measure.
It's
something
we
see
on
a
lot
of
products,
but
it's
not
a
widely
accepted
measure
unit
of
measurement.
C
G
G
Most
of
these
are
battery-operated
little
lights
and
you
could
have
a
dull.
You
know
a
dull
light
with
a
battery
on
the
back
of
a
carriage
that
you
can't
see
beyond
50
feet,
much
less
500
feet,
so
we
came
up
with
the
consensus
of
an
led
light
which
is
more
visible
to
the
to
the
eye
at
a
greater
distance.
G
So
we
did,
you
know,
like
lee,
said:
did
all
the
research
and
led
seemed
to
be
the
brighter
of
the
that
used
less
wattage
if
you
will
on
battery
operated
instruments
so
and
that's
the
reason
why
we
did
that
just
for
added
explanation,
it's
it's!
What
we,
our
guys
are
experiencing
out
there
when
trying
to.
C
I
Hey
lee,
thank
you.
I
I
wanted
to
go
back
to
what
I
was
going
to
ask
before.
I
accidentally
interrupted
council
dicaprio,
sorry
about
that.
I
I
I
I'm
not
in
support
of
this
ordinance,
but
I
want
to
see
if
I
can
give
an
example
why
I
want
to
take
section
11.
For
instance,
all
animal
drawn
characters
shall
follow
posted
traffic
signs,
including
without
limitation,
stop
signs
and
traffic
signals.
This
city
is
not
designed
as
a
modern
city
right,
there's
all
sorts
of
things
going
on
unlevel
sidewalks
unlit
areas.
I
I
Why
would
starting
and
stopping
more
a
carriage
like
I
look
at
airlines
landing
and
takeoff-
are
the
most
dangerous
right,
stopping
and
stuff
like
what
is
the
evidence
that
this
is
a
good
thing
to
do?
Why
not
give
a
carriage
operator
whose
experience
the
ability
to
navigate
and
understand
the
dynamics
of
this
kind
of
multi-variable
environment
they're
operating
in
I
mean
the
construction,
the
noise,
the
cars,
the
bikers
the
people
going
the
wrong
way
like.
I
I
don't
see
any
evidence
that
this
is
a
good
like
we're,
making
it
better,
and
so
it
feels
honors
to
me
and
and
then
why
not
operate
after
sundown?
That's
when
the
city
population
drops
that's
when
there's
fewer
people
out
on
the
street
and
less
cars
like
so
I
just
kind
of
looked
at
this,
going
I'm
not
sold
on
that
and
and-
and
I
don't
like
the
way
it
came-
I
I
expressed
that
process
early
on.
I
don't
like
the
the
the
timing
of
the
pandemic.
I
would
love
to
see
this.
I
You
know
if
there's
a
lighting
issue
to
come
at.
What
I
did
hear
is
that
hey
the
training's
not
consistent
mallory
revealed
that
not
all
the
you
know,
someone
claimed
100
hours,
but
not
all
of
them
and
equipment.
But
I
think
this
needs
to
kind
of
go
back
to
the
drawing
table
is
where
I'm
leaning
and
maybe
come
from
the
city
and
the
carriage
operate.
Like
you
know,
what
are
the
incidents
that
are
leading
to
this?
That
needs
to
be
reconsidered.
I
I
I
think
we
could
be
a
little
more
thoughtful
of
the
the
the
tour
opera,
the
companies
that
are
operating
right,
we're
we're
changing
some
rules
on
them
that
I
I
just
you
know,
was
there
a
call
from
council
that
hey
you
know
seven
members
right,
we
gotta
look
at
this.
I
just
don't.
There's
no
evidence
of
that
right.
That's
not
what
dan
wrote
to
us
dan
wrote
that
you
know
this.
H
Well,
if
this
is
tim
dillman
from
a
legal
standpoint,
if
all
discussion
has
incurred,
then
typically
somebody
would
make
a
motion
now,
of
course,
you
could
have
a
motion
to
recommend
approval
and
report.
This
make
a
mission
to
report
this
out
to
the
full
committee
with
a
positive
recommendation
or
report
it
out
with
a
negative
recommendation,
or
you
can
make
a
recommendation
to
a
certain
portion
being
reported
out
favorably
in
a
certain
portion
unfavorably,
but
we
are
going
to
have
to
take
it
to
the
full
commission.
H
K
I'm
not
necessarily
making
a
motion,
but
I
I
like
the
idea
of
consistency
of
training
of
you
know
of
those
types
of
things
you
know
kind
of,
like
a
business
has
to
you,
know,
display
their
business
license
that
you
know
this.
This
is
kind
of
their
thing
that
they
have
to
display
making
sure
that's
consistent
again
from
a
you
know:
public
safety
perspective.
K
You
know,
I
guess
you
know
some
of
these
things
again.
I
just
I
just
have
a
hard
time
wondering
if,
if
we're
going,
if,
if
we're
going
too
far-
and
you
know
I
like
to
see
everybody
playing
by
the
same
rules
without
it
without
it
making
the
game
impossible
to
play,
and-
and
I
think
that
that's
that's
that's-
you
know
like
what
my
what
my
gut
is-
is
telling
me
and
kind
of
some
consensus
that
I
that
I
feel
is
in
this.
K
K
I
don't
think
as
it
stands
right
now,
and
I
know
that,
and
I
know
the
energy
and
the
effort
and
the
research
and
everything
that
has
gone
into
it,
but
I
don't
think
we're
there
yet
and
I
wouldn't
recommend
for
for
full
approval
of
this
an
overarching
theme
that
maybe
we
then
massage
a
little
bit
more.
I
would
be
comfortable
take
making
that
recommendation
to
the
full
commission.
G
G
So
actually
we
enacted
a
brand
or
we
admitted
an
ordinance
for
the
last
carriage
accident
about
harnessing
and
and
strap
ties
and
which
was
successful
and
knocked
on
wood.
We
haven't
had
a
horse
or
or
escaped
since,
so
I
just
wanted.
Yes,
we
worked
very
hard
on
this,
but
with
that
said,
we
have
been
working
very
hard
all
along,
so
I
leave
it
to
you
to
decide
as
a
as
a.
A
C
B
I
D
B
B
As
as
I
understand
it,
the
first
one
is
from
the
committee
that
put
the
new
proposals
and
the
new
rules
for
the
city
to
consider
the
tourist
commission
to
consider
the
second
one
was
dan's
adjustment
of
that
one
and
his
massaging
of
that
and
changing
the
rules
slightly
then
the
carriage
people
is
the
third
one.
Am
I
wrong
about
that
is
that.
I
I
B
Okay,
then
take
that
back
then
I'm
recommending
that
we
accept
the
number
one
as
our
recommendation
to
be
continued
to
be
studied
on
and
if
any
changes,
if
they
feel
they're.
I
said
that
better
before,
if
there
are
any
changes
done
to
that
city
one.
But
I
think
the
city
recommendations
are
the
best
most
reasonable
and
should
be
recommended
to
the
tourist
commission.
I
K
I
F
C
I
H
Well,
you
can't
do
something:
that's
going
to
be
inconsistent
with
the
motion
that
you
just
passed,
but
if
you
need
some
other
motion,
then
perhaps
we
could.
We
could
entertain
that
normally
normally
we're
voting
in
favor
of
a
at
a
city
council
over
you're
voting
in
favor
of
a
first
reading
or
not
you're
adopting
the
law,
not
you're,
making
motions
to
amend
it.
This
is
a
slightly
different
situation,
you're
making
recommendations,
and
so,
if
you
said
well,
you
know
what.
H
I
B
Trying
to
wrap
up
something
so
that
we
can
make
pro
make
a
progress
here
that
leaves
it
open
when
the
recommendation
simply
leaves
it
open
that
when
it
goes
to
tourist
commission,
then
when
you
can
say
well,
I'd
like
to
add
a
wreck,
add
something
to
that
recommendation.
I'd
like
to
add
that
these
things
need
to
go
in
there,
whatever
your
choices
are.