Chelsea, MA Unsorted, 30 Sep 2020

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From YouTube: Charter Review Meeting of 9-30-20

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City of Chelsea
via WebEx
Chelsea Community Cable TV

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Hi everyone welcome to our city charter review committee meeting today september 30th. It is wednesday and we will get started with attendance. Judith, garcia present leo robinson martinez, absent calvin brown present melinda vega presents todd taylor.

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Rosemary carlisle, hello,.

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Henry wilson, alex parkelsen alex, is here mary burke, president.

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Jason jason stalker.

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Conversations please jason's stalker, okay, charlie mclean, did excuse herself, so she's absent and miriam rachentor present great. So that's attendance for our for us. We have quorum so we'll go ahead and go ahead and get started with a quick review of the purpose and process of this specific uh charter review committee, the for everyone else who is joining us via facebook.

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um I'm excited to actually announce to this group that not only will be not only are we streaming, the uh uh the city chelsea website the facebook page, but we're also streaming via the chelsea community cable tv, facebook page, so we're streaming on two facebook pages on facebook and we are also streaming on channel 22 via comcast for the folks who are joining us today for the first time and watching this special review committee.

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We are. The purpose of the specific committee is to review the city charter, which is the most important legal document of our city. We take suggestions of recommendations of any changes that we would like to see implemented on the city charter, and today we are actually discussing section eight. That was what was assigned for us to read and talk about, but of course we always like to revisit any other sections that we may have been for any other comics.

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So that being said, we are just a few sections away from finishing our full review and individual readings, so we will get. We will get started with section eights shortly. So now we're moving on to any lingering questions and comments from previous sections, I have a comment received from miriam reckendore um on section 7, I see miriam that you have a question regarding section 7, so I'll give you the floor. Let us know.

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Area you want, you have questions about.

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You sorry, um I want to know when they count the mail-in votes. What day.

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Cheryl all ballots: all ballots are open on the day um once the election is closed, so they start counting the night, probably around 8 8 30, that night on election day, so we get absentee ballots, which is the standard way of do the old-fashioned mail-in vote ballot. Somehow everyone thinks it's new, but um absentee ballots are sometimes are usually mailed in this year. The mail-in ballot system was very well organized by the commonwealth.

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You knew by on online whether they received your request, what you requested and whether they received your ballot before the election or uh on the day of the election, um and then they opened them all at night. So when you send in your ballot, there's a cover envelope that logs you in and then that actual ballot envelope that's the inside envelope is counted that night with the votes.

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Okay, it does. Thank you. Okay, great! Are there any other lingering questions comments regarding any other sections that we've previously discussed so sections one through seven, now we're all set with that portion, great, so I'll, move on to the next item in our agenda.

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Henry wilson, public speaking.

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There is no one here for a public speaking portion and we have not received any communications for a public speaking portion, so I will go ahead and close that portion, but if there's anyone watching at home and you'd like to make any comments regarding our charter, there are many ways to do so. You can email me at judith.coma.gov or you can email our administrative assistant, fatima milara m-e-l-a-r-a at chelsea.gov.

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You can also call.

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617-466-4060 again at 617-466-4016- and you can leave your comments with her with her or if you also like to come in and speak here presently. You can also call our that number and we will add you to the rsvp list and you can come join us on wednesdays. We make here at six. So that's um my my spiel on on public speaking and now we move on to our most favorite section, which is the review section where we uh discuss section eight.

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So for section eight we received comments from mimi, so mimi I'll give you the floor. So you can walk us through what are some of your questions or suggestions that you'd like to see uh changed on section, eight and folks who are watching us section. Eight of our city charter discusses citizen participation mechanisms, so it discusses uh any citizen initiative measures, petitions that we like to pass along with um city referendum procedures and other other areas. So it's a lengthy section but I'll give the floor to mimi.

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So you can go ahead and ask your questions and make questions.

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A petition is, however, you wish to draft it. Normally the sample that is given by the commonwealth. Did you say exactly what you're requesting so I think once in the past so many years we had a petition to overturn.

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An order or something and this you can come into the city council with so many registered voters. Usually you have to put the name the address, um because the clerk's office has to check that they're registered voters and residents and.

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Depending on the petition, so there's really no formal way to petition in chelsea.

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I just want to say so. If you said I wish to recall um the council president and the recall, tells you how many people I think it's 300 registered voters. That's what you write.

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As your petition.

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And then you sign it if the petition itself is vague and doesn't make sense, this solicitor and the city clerk have the right to ask you to rephrase it: okay and the state law.

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It's in chapter 43, um different cities that have different forms of government.

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If your charter does not give you an um option of any type of initiative that you would like to bring before the city, um if it's silent, you can actually look in chapter 43 and it gives you a lot of language about cities and towns, especially cities that have city managers like chelsea and cambridge and worcester and lowell.

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Those are quite different cities because they have city managers, they're different with cities that have mayors like boston and lawrence who's in the other cities that have mayor. But it gives you some of the language if you want to read up on how cities uh petition and what they petitioned for.

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um I think, if you look at recalls recalls, you have to be specific about what you want to recall, an elected official, a record official for um and that started um in california about 10 years ago, and it's just been rolling out and a lot of folks have just been biting on to it. So, but if you really want to find out some stuff, you can read chapter 43, mass general law or so online. You can pull it up.

A

Yeah and and thank you, um counselor brown and specifically for anyone who's watching online or on tv. Our recall petitions are on section 8-8 and, as you mentioned, if you want to recall a specific elected official based, if it's an at-large elected official that you'd like to recall, then you need at least 300 an affidavit signed by at least 300 voters and at least 100 signatures for an elected, um an elected official at the district level. So that really speaks to yeah.

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Actually, um actually recall is not in the mass general laws. Impeachment is in the mass general laws. If you search the mass general laws, we call as councillor brown said, is a creature that cities and towns have been doing on their own. So our actual recall process is clearly just chelsea's recall process.

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So when you look on chapter 43, they give you ideas, but they're not really the way that chelsea has done it. um So that's what we call is different than impeachment. So historically you can impeach a politician. You couldn't necessarily have recalled them until they started doing so around the time. California did it on a on a regular basis.

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Yeah and for the purposes of this meeting, we want to focus on the way things are done in chelsea, because what we are reviewing is our city charter. So I definitely want to stay on topic with that. So I have to speak.

C

Again so I would say I was speaking on two different subjects. One was a recall. The first one when mimi had was about petition so give you an example of a petition. If you would like to say, we want to go back to the to elect the mayor. That wouldn't be a recall. That would be a petition yeah and that's where 43 comes in and that's what other generals act like our child is quiet about. You can get that info.

A

So, if so right so in that clarification, I know that the subject of bringing a mayor is something that interests a lot of our residents here in chelsea, so in that process, that would be a petition that would be made and based on our charter, that petition can be established through the requirements on section 8. That's one is that correct.

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um So there's several ways to bring about a mayor: it could be through this process. Charter review um and and a petition is different than change in the charter. So a position is nine times out of ten used more to change measure of the city council ordinance, I'm an appropriation, so the free petition is different to change the charter. There's a whole nother process under the mass general laws to do so, um but you can petition to change the charter which will get that process flowing.

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Does that make more sense?

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Okay right so so, then we're interested in changing the charter. We need to create a petition to make that request. If.

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If it's not during our charter review process outside of our charter review right now, if you want to change it now's the time to change it, we still have to go to the voters into the legislature, but now tells us forget the petition, bring up your ideas here. Let's recommend it to the city council.

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Great awesome, so in terms of mimi's question of the guidelines for the petition, that's what's listed on section 8-1. Yes, the.

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Mimi does that answer that question for you it's.

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To true councilman brown did have a reference to the mass general laws, so if somebody's reading this and they were having a petition, because I just think it's a little confusing as like what you would approach to an ordinance versus a petition versus I, you know, I just think people might need a little a little. I could get.

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You I could get to a family.

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I just think it might be helpful if it was like just even a reference to say just go to mess.

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So what we're just.

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Is to add this, what I'm hearing from you mimi is to have that reference in the city charter to say, if you have any more questions or if the individual has any more questions regarding what to do next refer to mgl, correct 40, chapter 43, you said yeah, that's that's what.

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It speaks to yes, it's all, it's a bunch of stuff. It's not just this! It's a bunch of stuff! You have to be specific. What you're going at okay yeah so just said that, even if it's like with a challenger.

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We can't hear you.

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Even with a child review, you would still I mean you want to know the starting point. I think she wants to know the starting quantity, language and stuff, but that stuff is available and you know.

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There's samples everywhere.

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Got it great, so um maybe I'll give you the floor for your other questions. Well, the other question.

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Is on section 8.8 and why why do we have to wait six months to call it.

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Say that one more time I missed that on section 8, 8, section, 8., okay,.

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Can we call an elected official within for the first six years of slide.

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So there's no wait, so the recall again is a creature of the city of chelsea, but I think it was about money. So you have to have a special election and it costs money to hold a special election.

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You that's basically, I believe I wasn't here when they drafted the first charter, but most likely when they give time frames. When it comes to elections, they cost money which nicest in our recall, is if we call a district that special election is just held in that strict seat. If it's city-wide, if you recall a city-wide um counselor, you have to have a city-wide election.

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Make sense you also have to have a certain amount of days to have the election too.

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Yes, notice, yeah.

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Yeah 180 days, then you can have an election.

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um Okay, why are there so many different percentages? I I 20 10 5. Every every section has a different percentage. Why can't we just say 20 30. Can we just say.

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So what are you referring to because there's different percentages for different things, so, on section on section 858 for letter e, the 40 is for the for for the recall election, so there's different sections with all those different sections, there's different percentages. So cheryl, I don't know if you want to take a stab on that so.

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On e, it's 40 of those entitled to vote have voted, so you go and you I don't know where these percentages came from. We again, I wasn't here, but chelsea felt, like 20 of the voters, should not overturn an election that perhaps there was 75. I think that's what they were looking at when they look at percentages.

E

Is that we're going through this all over again? Some people might say forget about it, so they really want a large amount of people to recall someone who was actually voted in.

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Citizen referendum referendum procedures.

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Twenty percent out of four.

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What does that say? I'm sorry I.

D

Gotta read where she is any measure petition signed by voters equal in number to at least five percent of the total number of voters.

E

Okay, so citizen referendum appears to be trying to overturn a measure by the city council, not remove.

D

An elected official- well, I I get the elected official part, but five percent seems pretty low.

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I mean it could be.

C

So can I just say.

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So I believe in this case we made five percent- is just the votes of not all elect, not all registered voters. The other number is higher, because these are registered voters. He has a percentage in there to say 20 percent of registered voters, which you can probably have this hypothetically 20 000 registered voters or 15 000. But when you run for office, people may vote, they may only add up to like 1500. So five percent is not a lot. I mean five percent is a big number of fifteen percent. Fifteen hundred.

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So that's. I believe that is that right.

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I I don't actually know why we did what we did. I have to be honest with you. I'm just go ahead. Larry.

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Mary go ahead. I think the reason why there are different percentages is because you're looking at in any one of these categories. Your aggregate number on your percentages varies so similar to what calvin and leo were saying. Your aggregate number, when you're initiating, for example, is going to be a larger number compared to registered. Voters are going to be a smaller number and then, if you look at the top of the next page, the bottom of 8-4, it says 30 percent it. You have to actually have 30 percent voters that actually turn out.

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So it's the students that are in so that we don't end up having a governance system that is constantly in flux and chaos, because it's turning and churning.

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Relates to if there was a couple candidates and somebody decided to not uh to resign, the next person who got 20 of the vote would be able to take that seat.

C

So that's correct, but that's 20. You had to get at least 20 percent, because if you got 16 you wouldn't be eligible for that c. So so that's a lot. That's why I say, depending on, if you're looking at the run for mayor everyone, I mean it could be 50.. You.

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Wouldn't be automatically eligible, but you could.

C

But if you run it for mayor, you think it would be much more contested and much more heated race. So you don't want to just have ten percent of five percent. You want to really have folks to go out there and that's where the numbers were for that petition. It would be higher great.

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Well, I think part of the history was when they had recalled someone when they recalled one of the mayors. They had to have a certain percentage in order to move forward. The case ended up in courts to really decide whether or not they had the 20 percent or whatever percentage was needed to have the mayor removed.

C

I have a question for sheryl cheryl. Maybe um I don't know if you have it with you? Is it possible since we're talking about this? Is it possible, if you don't, have it tonight the next meeting you can actually have a copy of the recall petition or the reason why someone could be recalled and you can actually read it out, and maybe the voters or the viewers is not here- will get a chance to hear it. I don't know if it's online, I look for it.

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Well, this is what I'm trying to tell you. There's no just one recall petition, because every city is differently right.

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I could I could send around samples.

E

I could send around samples, but you can recall for any particular reasons.

C

No I'm talking about chelsea. What reason give me a reason why a person in chelsea could be recalled because it has to be defined in the top.

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In the act, okay, so you have to understand in our charter we don't define it so there's a difference between someone who has to be removed and someone who has to be recalled so to remove you moved out your district. You moved out the city, you were convicted of a felony okay. Finally,.

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Of a felony but to be recalled, it.

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Could be the district just not happy with how.

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You're serving them, they got enough people to put in a petition saying he doesn't meet the needs of the district.

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Well, that's what I'm saying so what I'm just saying.

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Is that you don't.

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Have to have a reason you just have to have whatever? Is it 300 people to be on the petition to agree? Okay? So then you may.

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Want to put in reasons, but you don't have.

E

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So so now and I'll have I'll ask this question based on the question that you're asking and bringing it back to our to our responsibility here as as a committee, would you find it helpful and is it even remotely possible, because what you're asking is basically.

C

You don't have a reason to they call anyone you can make it up as econ.

A

Yeah, so what I'm hearing from you is, would it be helpful to add the reason to the charter? I see they are nodding, no, so give us your reason. Why not.

B

Well, the reason that the in the past was a mayor who won the election got sworn in in january and never showed up to city hall until april. So, therefore, a group of people got together got a petition and moved for the recall.

A

Okay yeah, but that's that's a history lesson. What.

B

I'm trying to understand is that was one of the reasons how a recall happened.

A

So we're not we're not questioning the recall yeah. Well, what councilor brown is saying: there is no definition on our city charter. When you read this on section 8 that explains to you why someone can be recalled. That's what I'm saying we don't you know about our history with the mayor. It's our history, you know give.

E

You an example judas leo gave you an example as to why you can't limit anything.

A

I'm not looking for an example. What what counselor brown is saying is, and this is what a piano for councillor brown is on this section, I'm not asking a historical example. No.

E

That could be a current example. Yeah.

A

So what I'm saying what I'm hearing from counselor brown is? It would be helpful that on our charter, we actually set reasons why someone could be recalled.

E

So limit them, so basically you would.

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Okay, so I'll let mary mary go ahead. No.

F

I I I don't know what is saying it: it's the clarity for someone reading it right, but if someone's reading the recall section they've got a reason in their head, while they're reading it right and is that it may be, the happy compromise you know in the the sweet spot is because I do agree. If we list reasons for recall, we may be limiting, because what you put in writing in a legal document limits versus if you leave it open, there can be things that emerge that we don't know about.

F

That could be a reason for recall so leaving it open, but maybe the the the caveat is a footnote that refers anyone.

F

Looking for more information, specific information, you know cite the chapter 42, I think on mastering law, as you mentioned, but also set an appointment with the city solicitor and have whoever the city solicitor is at that time, walk them through and sort of even advise them like if you're going to go down this road of recall. This is these are the steps that you know, but it really is more of a counseling session that we were referring him to in the chat yeah.

C

Yeah go ahead, so I think I think he crossed the line, because now you talk about the will of the voters and the will of the people. So, for instance, if someone for one of us city, council members here at charter members tonight we leave here, we get in an accident. Someone gets really hurt and.

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Says, oh, that was horrible. We found out this person was drinking and you know, let's recall them. Another example- and I just use these two here- someone that's running for office or an office holder. They get caught looking at someone's window, peeping tom, oh my god, this guy keep it up so every day you can find legitimate, probably reason to recall.

C

But what about the will of the? What about the will of the voters? They voted. These people in you have to respect that. We I mean, and I'm not saying I'm not advocating for or again, but I know most of the things that we've seen nationally and statewide. Is this always like? Okay, someone done something that was really morally wrong or really morally insane, and it was recalled not just you know, hey this person got in a fight with someone and we're going to recall.

C

I mean you convict people before the court of law and then you'll also remove people from the will of the voters.

A

Well, from from what you're saying it seems that no you're, not removing.

E

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A

Just just one second, what I'm hearing I see what you're saying, but what I'm seeing here is that the will of the voter. That's why we're asking for these signatures and cheryl. You can clarify we're asking for these signatures and this affidavit for signatures to ensure that there is some sort of checks and balances there is that so.

E

So a recall is like an election. You have to have a reason to recall you convinced three people initially, then you gotta convince the entire city or the entire district, so it is about the will of the people. It's just somebody is so offended or someone did something. They've got to convince three p 300 registered voters right and then they they have to then go before the city. We verify their registered voters like the whole process.

E

Is there that I don't think um councilman brown's fears of changing the whole process is valid, because then you go to the voters, so I think our process is very difficult to say. Oh, I want to recall counselor robinson because he wore nikes and not adidas like if you just can't do like. I mean people won't, do that it's costly to do with election right.

E

We haven't done that, but we have tried to remove people that we call that counselor the history shows is the person did something egregious to the city not just to an individual but to the city right and and when it becomes criminal we found a way to not have to do the recall.

E

um So I'm just saying to you is that I think your process is good. I wha. What to look at is do you need only 300?

E

Do you need um 20 or 40, and that's the checks and balances that you have written into your charter to start listing individual ways to recall is that you ignore those other possibilities that we can't think of and you're quiet, and in fact you were actually silencing the voter. When you say you can't do it. For that reason,.

A

Okay, great, no, that's, okay! So so, essentially, the consensus that we're hearing here, thank you, cheryl and, and and mary and leo and council brown and mimi for for bringing this up the consensus we're hearing is: let's, let's keep it, as is so. It can be broad enough to cover any sort of possibility. That may happen in the future. Considering what's happened in the past and the sort of signature system that we have and all the loopholes that someone has to go through.

A

Are these specific checks and balances that allows us to ensure that this process is democratic? Is that what I'm hearing? Okay? So so in terms of what what cheryl is suggesting is if we want to increase the number of signatures, that's something we can potentially do to have an impact. This is how is everyone and I'll give you guys time to sleep on it think about it.

A

I just don't want to be tossing around numbers, but if you see other cities that are working with other numbers that might be beneficial for us, then I'm happy to hear it out um for for any other. You know section here. So um does that answer mimi's questions? I know you had plenty of questions. Maybe did we go on a tangent here? No, no.

D

You went you answered, you answered them. I just have one more, which is in section 88b yeah go ahead. Mimi um we should just. Is there any way we can download the petition, or do you have to like do it? Is there any way that technology can help? With this? It can become a little bit more friendly.

A

I believe from what I'm reading here on this city charter. You can create your own petition.

D

They literally have they really they have typewriters. I don't even know anybody who owns a typewriter anymore. It says it either has to be completely printed or type written. I mean, isn't that a little difficult.

C

D

Just saying do we want to kind of update you can't you can't electronically uh submit this? You can't electronically have people sign.

B

It has to be verified.

A

Cheryl you're on me and cheryl.

A

Can you hear me.

E

Now we can okay, so um electronic signatures have not been up for.

F

Have not been accepted as a form.

E

Recognized as a sufficient form to file a petition, um petitions have been um uh dissimilar to when the elected officials walk around for their um nominations.

B

E

And but the top heading says exactly what you want to do in that petition. For example, um when a bunch of um property owners wanted a citizen referendum to overturn the property owner wanted discount thing, they didn't go as far as that, but mary for the record. I did counsel some because they called the city solicitor on how to do it. um So there was going to be a petition to overturn a measure by the city council, but they all um showed up and spoke to the city council. um So I.

D

We don't have a format because we don't know.

E

What people want we just need to you. We we ask them to do the same format, that candidates submit to be placed on the ballot name, a print name, sign, name and address of registered voters, so we can always send them that form, but we don't have a standard form. I know, but.

D

But you can sign I've signed a lot of legal documents by email and isn't there do we want it? Well, I'm saying, since we only review every 10 years, I think 2030 30. a little bit more tax heavy. Do we want to put something in this chart or something that we want to embrace that might want to embrace the technology or do we want to leave it alone?.

A

That's an open discussion for everyone. I know brown had a mary you'll go first and then council brown, mary you're on me, yeah all right. So.

F

um I hear what you say. I guess my where my mind goes to a little bit of a fear factor. I don't want to create an easy system. I like that, it's labor intensive. To be honest, I like that you have to walk around and get 300 signatures, because it is a case of you know. It has to be a high bar to reach to overturn.

F

You know something that has gone on if we're going to make it technology um acceptable. I think that's a lot easier and if that's the case, then I would be in favor of increasing the numbers right now. I am not in favor of increasing the numbers. Okay.

A

Yeah, I mean I mean I immediately when we talk about, I see where me, I see both points, but when I talk about mimi I'll go back to you, council brown, uh when I hear about what mimi's saying I'm thinking about the situation that we're in right now, I'm thinking about this pandemic, I'm thinking about how not in a million years did, we think we would look at how this pandemic affected these elections and our presidential elections where it's really affected our canvassing a candidate can no longer knock on your door, like things used to be because our public health conditions have changed.

A

So I see mimi's point where she's talking about accessibility and looking into the future, because who knows where this pandemic will take us, and we've already witnessed how this public health condition is taking a huge toll on the way we do things. So look at us now. You know behalf of you.

A

Most of you are virtually joining us right now because you can't presently be here the way things used to be so uh so so I love mary what you brought up, which is the idea of you're willing to compromise if we increase the number of signatures, so that might be something worth thinking, um but but I I see both points. I see.

F

Again, my fear is the constant chaos of churn that could conceivably take place. If we, you know, if we don't hold the bar high to have to make these decisions so yeah.

A

That's a great point: I see I'll, let council brown go first and then okay talk, taylor, councillor tata,.

G

Yeah so there's another, I I I agree with uh with mary about this. Being um you know, we don't want to make this an easy thing. I think it's it's if you can recall for any reason, it's got to be difficult to do it, um but there's another thing in in talking about the technology and that's verifying the signatures that the signatures are valid.

G

So that's the that's the real reason. You know you, you have to be able to validate the signatures, or else you could. You know, there's lots of room for anybody trying to sign these petitions that aren't uh shouldn't be because they don't live in the city or whatever, whatever reason um registered voters or uh whatever it is.

G

So you know, I think, that the the court allowed.

G

These types of computer signatures in this one, but um you know I I don't- I'm not sure that you know these things come along. This is a one in a hundred year thing, I'm not sure we have to enshrine.

G

You know something uh that happens every years in this.

G

I'm generally in favor of uh just leave this section alone. uh I think I think it's probably difficult enough uh as it stands, and you know we haven't had any recalls for how many years.

G

C

G

Heard other people in previous sections say: hey if it's not broke, don't fix it right. So you know I I I think uh I don't think that there's any reason to kind of monkey around with uh with something that's worked.

A

Okay, great me: oh, do you have questions no.

B

A

So leo I'll go to leo and then maybe go ahead. There.

B

Well, I think the the fact that you have to go on and get signatures, because if you do it electronically, if you're challenging me, I'm going to challenge every signature. That's on that page that I want to verify that this person, who you're telling me sign this petition, signed a petition.

G

B

If we're doing it electronically, you don't really you're not able to verify until you bring it here to the city clerk, and then you have to match up that person's signature to what they have on record here at the council and actually in the neighboring city. During this past election, a person who went out and got signatures and also signed other people's names to denomination papers and got challenged by the candidate on our data being qualified to be on the ballot.

A

So your point, is you see the value of having to verify that signature, the old school way? Okay, great? So there's no right or wrong answers here. It's a conversation I see. Maybe I saw three hands. Go up so I'll go mimi, cheryl, mary mimi.

D

Technology is a here. We don't know what it's going to be in 10 years. We don't even know if they're going to let you vote, they might even let you vote in 10 years on the computer. So you know computers can technology can move very quickly and they can identify many things and if we want to get people to be to participate more and if you guys keep thinking you're going to have to go knock on the door in an old-fashioned way, I think missing.

D

You're missing the opportunity to get younger people who do not participate uh large and sign signatures. There's a I'm not saying make it easier. I like the idea of higher studio. All I'm saying is: do we want to put in the charter that we should review when technology becomes more sophisticated? It is pretty darn sophisticated at the moment. We can do banking, you, you, could you people can lose your identity?

D

Yes, so this idea that you're that you could walk up to to joe citizen and that's how you verify it is a little I think, a little old-fashioned and we need to look at it. You know if you can transfer millions of dollars with no signature. Why can't we at least put in the charter? That's all I'm saying is some kind of verbiage to say we can do documents there's no way. You know real estate transactions, banking. Everything occurs online and now and why can't we just put it here and say hey.

D

This is how we this is how we might want to do it. You should do it, I'm just saying technology moves really quickly and we should embrace it and not just say no, that's all I'm saying.

A

So I'll go cheryl and mary cheryl. Thank you.

E

So um mimi for the record, um it's a bit administerial. Does that make sense so when we want to update something so like right now, you're saying signature, but soon it may be your thumbprint. So there are ways around keeping up with technology. You could email your petition to 300 people. They could print it out, sign it and mail it back to you right. It doesn't have to be one page, um so there are ways that we do accept, but really it's as to the um as to the um commonwealth.

E

But we start accepting more and more things. I mean chelsea's a little slow up on the uptake on technology, but we do do docusign for some of our contracts, but um I'm just saying is: if you put it in the charter, there's no need to because it's a ministerial. So if, if if commonwealth says you can accept computerized signatures, then I'm going to accept it. That's.

A

B

You know I mean it doesn't have to be written.

E

In the charter to change the form of acceptance of a petition, because technology changes all the time.

A

If someone submits decides to create an electronic position will accept it.

E

No, what I said was if, if, if the government allows us to accept electronic signatures, we would accept them, but right now we have not been allowed to accept them, because.

A

They can be easily.

E

Contested: okay.

A

Thank you mary and then counselor todd, taylor.

A

Mary you're on youtube.

F

Okay, sorry about that, um you know I just want to be consistent as much as for myself. I need to be consistent in my thought processes throughout this entire document. So I don't want to be contradictory in terms of what I believe and dating. So if previous sections I have been in favor of our city leaders, us city, council, uh school committee, members increasing their outreach, two citizens, two voters and and I've I've been the one that has said you know.

F

I you know that that's the you know, that's why I don't believe that in you know decreasing the number of city councillors is is is valid. We need to get more voter participation through outreach and engagement. Anything.

A

F

The last section we said, increase the number of signatures as a first step within more specific engagement, getting that outreach, but it is a 50 50 proposition. It's our city leaders who are dedicated to the service of the citizens and to the community.

F

But then it's the citizens who also have to do the outreach, and so I do feel that if, if we're asking our city leaders to get more signatures and do the person-to-person, I think that if things are going to do is if a group is going to want to recall, then that is the same, fair demand. We make that it does have to be the person to person knock on the door, get the signatures.

A

That's a great point, mary point. Thank you. um Counselor todd taylor.

G

Yeah, I mean cheryl kind of made, my point that I was just going to say it's not really about technology per se. um It isn't about you know just trying to drag us into the it's about it's about kind of. What's what's acceptable and what's and and and there's lots of different ways to do it.

G

I think I I get what you were saying, mimi about the kind of the docusign you're talking about electronic signatures right, so so so there's no there's no easy way to verify that and it's different when it's a bank or a company that has all this set up and they just replicate the same thing to every every person they do, but it's hard to be hard for the city of chelsea. And what are you going to do with all these people that don't have compute access to computers?

G

Or you know it's just it's just a it doesn't make a lot of sense. I think at this at this particular time I think when the time comes and the state says: okay, we should probably do you know so, I'm just making the same point that cheryl already made so I'll. Just uh you know close it with that, and I it's a good.

G

I it's a good idea to want to be tech savvy, but it's not always about that, and so I think the problems with that aren't really with us not wanting to be tech savvy. It's just that. It's it's a it's kind of a you know, it's just a tougher thing. I think for the city to do so.

A

Awesome, thank you, counselor uh todd taylor. Anyone else have any comments. Mimi. Is that any more questions that you may have no comments? Thank you, okay, great. So that concludes section eight. If there's not anyone else that wants to make any comments. That concludes our discussion. Thank you for submitting your comments. I'd just like to remind everyone, including folks who are watching our next meeting, will be not next week but the following week. We meet here wednesdays at 6, 00 pm and we will be discussing section 9..

A

So everyone please read section 9., it's the general provisions. It includes all sorts of uh interesting subjects, inspection documents, multiple member bodies, uh appointments methods of appointments disqualification from office.

A

So um it's a lot there please read section nine and we are honestly just one two more sections away from finishing reading this charter and then submitting um and discussing what are some of the suggestions that we want to make. So please everyone stay safe and good luck, see you at the next meeting 6 pm and have fun.

A

A