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Description
This summit, co-hosted by the City of Cupertino, is a "how-to" event for activists and local government agencies for developing policies that aim at preventing plastics from entering the environment. In this second installment, Miriam Gordon of Clean Water Action and Phil Bobel of the City of Palo Alto discuss impacts to the oceans and to local government. Recorded February 23, 2011. (55 min.)
A
B
B
We
we
fundraised
primarily
by
having
Canvassers,
go
door-to-door
in
communities
all
around
the
Bay
Area
every
night,
and
we
talked
to
about
fort.
We
meet
about
400
household
members
at
night,
and
we've
been
talking
about
trash
polystyrene
and
plastic
bags
for
the
last
two
years,
and
people
are
just
disgusted,
and
so
it's
been
probably
the
most
popular
issue
for
clean
water
action
in
california.
B
Maybe
the
roller
okay
here
we
go,
I'll
use
that
right,
so
I'm
going
to
be
talking,
I'm
going
to
be
showing
you
a
lot
of
slides
and
talking
about
ocean
impact
coastal
impact,
but
just
remember
that
what's
going
on
out
in
the
ocean,
is
that's
because
we're
talking
about
that
because
that's
what's
been
studied
the
most
the
problem
of
marine
debris,
but
the
same
things
are
happening
in
inland
waterways
and
terrestrial
areas.
They
just
get
these
areas
get
less
attention
now.
B
The
main
problem
with
plastics
in
the
marine
environment
is
that
plastics
persist
for
an
unknown
amount
of
time.
World-Renowned
plastics
engineer,
dr.
Anthony
Andrade,
has
stated
that
we
know
we
have
not
had
scientists
around
long
enough
to
measure
how
long
when
plastics
willfully
disappear
in
the
marine
environment.
So
basically
everything
all
the
statistics
you
hear
that
takes
a
hundred
years.
500
years,
a
thousand
years
for
plastics
to
disappear
are
just
guesses.
There
they're,
probably
educated
guesses,
but
they
are
guesses
and
plastics
in
the
marine
environment.
B
Don't
normally
look
like
this
picture
that
I
have
up
on
the
slide.
You
don't
see
it
in
I
mean
you
will
have
drifts
of
plastic
debris
like
this,
but
for
the
most
part
it's
diffuse
in
the
garbage
patch
or
in
the
gyres
in
the
ocean.
It's
diffused
and
unless
it's
a
big
floating
net,
that's
captured
a
lot
of
stuff
or
a
drift
like
this
on
a
current.
B
So
what
tends
to
happen
is
that
you
have
higher
accumulations
of
debris
in
jurors
than
outside
of
gyres,
because
there's
no
there's
no
outlet
and
the
Garbage
Patch
is
an
area
known.
Is
this
North
Pacific
Gyre?
That
is
has
been
said
to
be
twice
the
size
of
Texas?
It's
several
thousand
miles
wide
and
recently
some
a
scientist
has
been
trying
to
from
the
University
of
Oregon
has
been
trying
to
discredit.
B
Sorry
Oregon
State
been
trying
to
discredit
this
idea
that
there
is
this
garbage
patch
out
there
by
saying
it's,
not
a
big
floating
island
of
garbage
and
that's
true.
I'll
goleta
never
made
that
statement.
That
is
one
mass
of
garbage.
It's
really
diffused
throughout
the
entire
zone,
but
what
is
true
is
that
the
magnitude
of
the
problem
is
increasing,
even
in
jurors
and
outside
of
gyres.
So
in
the
North
Pacific
Gyre
there
is
an
area
very
low,
a
low
biological
activity.
B
There
is
very
little
plankton
in
a
gyre,
but
in
in
the
coastal
zone
like
the
California
or
than
California
bite,
so
Southern
California
bite.
We
have
a
lot
more
plankton,
so
you'll
have
higher
rates
of
plankton
in
coastal
zones
and
lower
rates
in
entires,
and
so
you'll
have
different
ratios
of
plastic
to
plankton.
But
what
we
do
know
is
that
marine
scientists
all
over
the
world
are
studying
this
problem
of
marine
debris
and
there
are
many
studies
that
are
showing
us
that
the
magnitude
of
the
problem
is
increasing.
B
There
there's
been
and
I
just
selected
a
few
studies
just
to
give
you
some
examples:
off
Japan's
Coast,
for
example,
floating
particles
of
plastic
debris
increased
tenfold
in
10
years
from
the
1970s
through
the
1980s
and
then
again
tenfold.
Every
two
to
three
years
in
the
1990s
in
the
Southern
Ocean
plastic
debris
increased
a
hundred
times
during
the
early
1990s
and
british
scientists.
B
Richard
Thompson
found
that
around
the
British
Isles
surveys
have
shown
a
three
to
four
increase
in
the
volume
of
plastic
debris
in
sea
water
between
the
1960s
and
the
1990s,
and
the
increase
occurred
during
a
worldwide
quadrupling
of
plastic
resin
production.
So
are
we
surprised
actually
that
there's
an
increasing
amount
of
plastics
in
the
marine
environment
when
global
plastic
production
is
increased
from
five
million
tons
in
the
1950s
to
over
250
million
tons
in
2006?
B
This
high
volume,
coupled
with
the
durability
of
plastics
and
their
persistence,
results
in
the
widespread
accumulation
of
discarded
plastics
in
landfills
and
as
litter
in
terrestrial
and
aquatic
habitats
worldwide,
and
what
the
science
tells
us
is
that
plastics
are
dispersed
throughout
the
water
column,
I'm
going
to
and
end
in
the
beach
environment
and,
as
you
know,
hello,
also
in
inland
waterways.
So
what
are
the
main
sources
of
this
plastic
debris?
B
Approximately
eighty
percent
of
it
comes
from
land-based
sources,
and
twenty
percent
of
it
comes
from
ocean
based
sources
and
because
we
are
the
urban
environment
that
is
contributing
to
that.
Eighty
percent.
That's
ending
up
in
the
ocean,
that's
what
we
need
to
be
focused
on
reducing
and
preventing
the
amount
of
plastics
that
are
being
generated
and
ending
up
in
the
environment.
So
what
are
the
impacts?
There
are
many.
The
impacts
of
plastic
in
the
marine
environment
are
for
one
entanglement.
B
This
is
just
what
just
are
able
to
observe.
There
are
other
impacts
related
to
derelict
fishing
gear,
which
is
basically
lost
or
abandoned
nets,
fishing
nets,
fishing
line
and
cages
for
for
crabs
and
lobsters
coral
reefs
can
be
harmed
through
scouring,
a
braiding
or
breakage
when
marine
debris
snags
are
in
tangles,
coral
and
then
there's
the
problem
of
ghost
fishing
nets,
which
continue
to
entrap
fish
and
crabs
and
other
marine
life
once
they're
abandoned
or
lost,
and
these
are
widely
acknowledged
problems.
B
Ingestion
happens
with
all
different
types
of
sea
life
and
what
I'm
trying
to
show
you
with
this
slide
is
that
they're
ingesting
all
different
size
classes
and
types
of
plastics,
and
it's
impacting
all
different
types
of
species.
This
little
hatchling
turtle.
On
the
left
side,
you
can
see
that
there
it's
it
had
two
pieces
of
plastic
measuring
approximately
three
millimeters
in
diameter
that
ingested
and
one
piece
was
lodged
in
the
bottom
of
the
stomach
like
a
plug
preventing
the
turtle
from
digesting
food.
B
Our
other
very
familiar
icon
is
the
turtle
that
swallowed
the
plastic
bag,
but
we
also
have
the
jellyfish
like
many
filter
feeders
in
the
marine
environment
that
are
ingesting
whatever
happens
to
be
floating
in
the
water
column,
whether
it's
a
big
piece
of
fishing
net
or
line
like
in
this
photo
or
micro
plastics.
Increasingly,
marine
life,
their
body
composition,
is
becoming
plastic.
B
Even
the
laysan
albatross
in
the
Midway
eight
holes
are
a
poster
child
for
what
happens
when
there's
when
plastics
are
mistaken,
for
food
by
parent
birds
that
scour
the
surface
of
the
ocean.
Looking
for
food,
a
hundred
percent
of
the
chicks,
the
chicks
that
have
died
in
these
have
evidence
of
plastic
ingestion,
and
you
can
see
from
this
baby.
Chick
cart.
B
Cart,
carcass
that
it's
really
just
the
detritus
of
our
lifestyle,
which
is
Apple
amp,
so
I
appellee
portrayed
by
our
artist,
ms
Lane,
in
the
back
of
the
room
and
another
example:
baleen
whales
that
filter
the
the
water
column
and
for
their
nutrition.
This
California
gray
whale
was
found
in
the
Puget
Sound
in
april
2010
the
stomach
contents.
It
died
with
a
stomach
full
of
just
the
detritus
of
our
wasteful
society
pants
and
a
golf
ball
more
than
twenty
plastic
bags,
small
towels,
duct
tape
and
surgical
gloves-
and
this
is
not
an
isolated
incident.
B
We
have
these
whales
washing
up
on
our
shores
in
California
every
year,
but
our
friends
at
Al
goleta
also
wondered,
after
maybe
their
9th
voyage
in
the
Pacific
Gyre
in
2008.
What's
going
on
with
fish,
I
mean
what's
going
on
with
the
human
food
chain,
so
they
started
sampling
fish
during
that
voyage.
They
caught
672
fish
and
thirty.
Five
percent
of
them
had
ingested
micro
plastic
fragments.
B
These
are
small
little
fish,
mike
doe
feeds
and
the
record
holder
in
that
in
that
sampling
had
ingested,
84
fragments,
that's
the
petri
dish
on
the
left
side,
84,
fragments
of
plastic
debris
microscopic
or
not
microscopic,
but
very
small
micro
plastics.
This
was
a
fish
that
was
two
and
a
half
inches
in
length,
and
that
was
its
stomach
contents.
The
dish
on
the
right
side
shows
what
a
normal
fish
of
that
size
and
species
would
would
eat,
and
we
see
evidence
from
the
marine
environment
that
fish
are
eating
plastics.
B
B
There
are
other
impacts
like
the
spread
of
invasive
species.
All
these
different
size,
categories
of
plastics
and
different
types
of
plastics
that
are
floating,
create
a
perfect
landing
place
and
safe
haven
for
other
species
that
like
to
attach
two
solid
floating
pieces
and
they
raft
on
them
and
some
species
lay
their
eggs
on
them.
Like
this,
this
black
plastic
rope,
sorry
blue
rope
and
then
this
mooring
buoy
that
has
all
kinds
of
muscles
and
and
bivalves
attached
to
it
when
they
are
transported
away
from
there
by
currents
away
from
their
native
or
geographic
regions.
B
These
plastic
pieces
become
a
more
effective
method
of
dispersing
invasive
species
than
ship
ballast,
water
and
here's,
a
very
small,
maybe
one
inch
one
and
a
half
inch
long
styrofoam
packing
peanut,
and
you
can
see
that
these
tiny
mollusks
had
attached
themselves
and
we
all
know
that
polystyrene
is
lightweight
and
disperses
easily
and
is
transported
easily
by
current.
So
this
is
another
transport
mechanism
for
invasive
species
and
a
major
problem
where's
a
time
check
time
chucker
what
I'm
done.
B
The
remaining
monomers
like
styrene
and
bisphenol
A
can
leach
out,
and
there
are
hundreds
of
these
types
of
additives
that
are
you
used
to
stable,
do
UV
stabilization
soften
or
make
rigid
the
plastics
they're
anti
foggers.
Antimicrobials,
flame
retardants,
colorants,
all
kinds,
hundreds
of
additives,
and
it's
estimated
that
plastic
products
are
composed.
B
Loss
of
coastal
torium
tourism
in
the
asian
pacific
economic
region
has
been
estimated
at
six
hundred
and
twenty-two
million
dollars
per
year
and
that's
from
tourism
and
then
from
fishing
shipping
and
tourism
point
two
billion
dollars
per
year.
Marine
debris
is
comprised
mostly
of
plastics,
and
this
is
what
we're
finding
that
it's
mostly
packaging,
it's
a
lot
of
cigarettes,
but
it's
mostly
food
and
beverage
packaging.
B
A
Thank
you,
I
think.
Unfortunately,
some
of
the
most
interesting
stuff
tends
to
be
the
most
horrifying
stuff
and
I
do
want
to
make
sure
all
of
you
know
that,
even
though
we
are
going
to
be
getting
continuing
in
our
next
presentation
to
get
grounded
and
what
the
problems
are
on,
the
challenges
are
with
plastic
pollution.
The
rest
of
the
day
is
going
to
be
about
what
public
agencies
and
nonprofits
can
be
doing
together
to
be
solving
this
problem.
So
I
want
to
remember.
A
You
are
going
to
feel
motivated
by
also
the
bad
news
and
also
the
good
news
about
what
we
could
be
doing
about
it.
After
that,
our
next
speaker,
Phil
bubble,
is
going
to
be
talking
about
impacts
to
local
governments
and
Phil
you're
going
to
have
to.
Let
me
introduce
you
and
so
I
had
the
pleasure
of
getting
to
work
with
Phil
on
a
pretty
much
day
to
day
basis.
Phil
is
the
Phil
bubble.
A
Is
a
division
manager
for
the
Public
Works
environmental
compliance
program
at
the
palo
alto,
regional
water
quality
control
plant,
where
he's
led
award-winning
programs
for
years
and
years
and
years?
Most
of
you
in
this
room
know
Phil
bubble
he's
been
there
for
22
years
he's
also
currently
serving
as
the
assistant
director
of
the
city's
public
works
department.
Phil
has
also
been
the
lead
in
palo
alto
for
getting
our
baghdad
going
and
our
foam
reduction
band
going.
He
really
has
been
the
lead
in
the
spirit
behind
that
effort.
C
Thank
you
I'm
glad
to
be
here,
and
it
is
kind
of
depressing
and
discouraging
a
little
bit,
but
you
know
it's
fine
that
Mary
went
over
a
little
bit
because
I
was
going
to
focus
on
the
good
things
about
plastic
pollution
and
stuff,
so
mine
is
kind
of
short
you'll
be
glad,
but
really
one
good
thing
is
that
is
so
visual
right.
Some
of
these
pollution
problems
at
least
that
I've
worked
on,
have
been
these
pollutants
at
the
molecular
level.
You
can't
see
em
you
you
it's
very
different.
This
is
a
very
visual
thing.
C
C
Alto
I
didn't
think
we
had
this
kind
of
thing
in
Palo
Alto,
you
know,
and
so
we've
tried
over
the
years
a
number
of
different
things
to
do
about
it,
all
of
which
take
a
lot
of
time
of
city
staff
and
other
people,
and
that's
what
I
was
going
to
focus
on
on
this
particular
issue.
I
have
to
say
you
know
our
working
hypothesis
is
that
almost
all
of
this
is
coming
from
los
altos
hills
in
los
altos
down
that
era
crew.
C
So
it's
kind
of
understandable
that
you
know
it
ends
up
in
Powell
and
we
have
to
work
on
the
first
thing
that
I
thought
might
be
a
good
idea
was
we
had
actually
just
had
a
conviction
of
a
guy
and
his
mother
actually
for
grease
grease
disposal,
Italy
Greece
disposal
in
one
of
our
creeks
conviction
and
actually,
as
most
of
you
know,
practically
all
I
think
now
all
of
our
grease
haulers
have
been
criminally
convicted
of
of
putting
grease
some
where
it
didn't
belong.
Well,
this
guy
the
court
system.
C
It
was
his
first
real
conviction
and
they
wanted
to
do
alternative
sentencing
and
I
thought.
This
is
great.
You
know
I'm
new
at
this,
and
so
we
had
him
work
on
this
problem
for
three
days,
and
this
is
actually
a
picture
of
what
it
looked
like
after
he
worked
on
it
for
three
days.
It's
very
hard
and
nothing
it
much
against
him.
He
didn't
work
particularly
hard,
but
it
is
very
difficult
to
remove
this
stuff
once
you
get
it
in
the
natural
environment.
C
Now.
Another
positive
thing,
though,
about
plastic
pollution,
is
that
when
you
get
volunteers
involved,
it
can
be
a
pretty.
You
know.
Everybody
feels
good
about
this.
This
is
a
group.
That's
just
cleaned
up.
It's
married
Odin's
group
and
she's
there
waving
in
the
background
trying
to
force
herself
to
a
position
where
she'd
be
photographed
better,
but
it
didn't
work
out,
she's
second,
from
the
right
and
I
think
Mary
can
tell
you.
This
is
one
of
the
most
rewarding
things.
Probably
that
she
does
with
our
group
is
organize
volunteers,
get
them
out.
C
Everybody
feels
good
about
it.
So
that's
the
second
positive
thing.
Actually,
those
were
the
only
two
positive
things.
I
could
think
up
about
the
plastic
pollution
problem,
but
I
did
want
to
point
that
out
in
fairness
to
plastic
manufacturers.
So
we've
got
this
job,
though
of
volunteer
coordination,
and
it's
a
big
one.
C
Even
trying
to
get
that
stuff
out
of
there
is
something
that
takes
a
lot
of
our
time.
Another
place
we
can
try
to
get.
It
is
catch
basins,
although
a
lot
of
it
blows
in
some
of
it
does
come
through
our
storm
drain
system.
Some
of
it
does
end
up
in
our
catch
basins
and
other
locations
are
the
wet
wells
of
our
pump
stations
where
we
can
try
to
get
it
out
there.
City
crews
have
to
do
this.
C
I
just
threw
out
water
district
coordination,
because
you
know
we
love
our
friends
at
the
water
district,
but
we
do
get
into
these
discussions
about
well,
whose
job
is
that
really
to
clean
up
that
particular
area?
That
water
district
area
is
at
a
city
of
how
Alto
area
so
there's
a
lot
of
discussion
and
coordination
among
local
governments
trying
to
figure
that
out
and
quite
frankly,
all
that
takes
time
and
what
else
have
I
got
there?
Jason
cities:
we
also
have
some
of
these
discussions
with
our
adjacent
cities.
C
You
know
for
us,
San,
Francisquito,
Creek,
County
line
menlo
park
on
one
side,
he's
Palo
Alto
on
one
side,
we're
on
the
other
side,
there's
a
lot
of
discussions
with
folks
about
how
to
get
this
done,
and
it's
all
good.
It's
all
good,
but
it
all
takes
time.
We
blame
an
awful
lot
of
what
we
see
in
our
crease
on
the
freeways
and
I.
Think
legitimately.
C
So
you
know
there's
an
awful
lot
of
stuff
getting
blown
off
of
our
freeways
and
expressways
and
into
our
water
bodies
and
that's
another
source
of
intergovernmental
kind
of
coordination
and
work.
And,
of
course,
the
freeway
people
are
spending
all
kinds
of
money
and
doing
what
they
can
and
that's
another
government
effort
that
takes
time
and
energy.
C
Some
of
our
guidance
of
some
of
our
volunteers
need
more
guidance
and
help
than
others.
This
this
group
is,
you
know,
gone
a
little
straight,
but
it
does
take
time.
However,
on
the
other
side,
I
have
to
say
that
a
number
of
our
volunteers,
no
better
than
we
do
what
to
do.
They're
great
they're,
well
organized
they're,
terrific
and
they
show
us
the
path.
So
we
have
learned
so
much
from
our
volunteers.
C
Well,
several
shots
of
the
difficulty
of
removing
these
plastic
bags.
The
first
one,
you
know
it's
20
feet
up
in
a
tree,
can't
get
that
one
worst
problem,
really,
I
think,
is
the
deteriorating
nature
of
the
plastic
bag.
So
here's
a
couple
of
them
that
are
hung
up.
You've
all
seen
this
they're
starting
to
photo
degrade.
We
call
it
photo
degrade,
but
what's
really
happening
just
breaking
into
smaller
and
smaller
pieces,
making
it
virtually
impossible
to
get
it
out
of
there.
C
There's
some
more
that
I
whoops
here's
styrofoam
doing
the
same
thing
and
getting
involved
with
the
leaf
litter
and
the
other
natural
debris
in
the
creek,
and
so
some
of
our
volunteers
will
spend
a
lot
of
time.
Trying
to
separate
this
and
other
way
is
just
to
remove
it
all.
But
then
what
do
you
do
with
this
combination
of
natural
leaf,
litter,
twigs
and
the
plastic
stuff?
C
D
C
Just
reminding
you
what
I've
already
told
you
that
you're
supposed
to
do
that
in
a
talk
you
know
so
regulatory
requirements.
So
this
takes
a
lot
of
our
time
too,
because
once
we
say,
okay
recognize
the
obvious
and
say
you
know
it's
just
not
working
to
clean
this
stuff
up
once
it
gets
out
of
there,
it's
just
too
hard,
so
we'd
better
do
source
control
that
makes
sense
right
and
we'd
better
try
to
remove,
try
to
prevent
it
from
going
in
the
first
place.
Oops
sorry,
this
isn't
source
control
yet.
C
So
this
is
a
regulatory
effort
to
remove
the
stuff
once
it
gets
out
of
into
the
natural
environment
and,
as
everybody
knows,
the
state
through
the
Regional
Water
Quality
Control
Board,
mostly,
but
some
other
state
agencies
are
getting
in
the
business
of
trying
to
regulate
trash
as
a
pollutant,
it's
kind
of
the
latest
pollutant.
So
we
have
these
hot
spot
designations.
Now
where
cities
are
to
designate
hot
spots
under
our
permit
from
the
state
and
then
were
to
act.
Needless
to
say,
this
is
a
huge
burden
on
local
government.
C
C
C
We're
also
required
to
put
in
these
full
capture
devices,
and
many
of
you
know
that
so
for
a
percentage
of
our
commercial
area,
we're
going
to
have
to
put
something
in
that
will
catch
5
millimeter
in
size
of
trash,
and
this
is
going
to
be
a
major
expense
and
even
more
so
than
the
expense.
It's
going
to
be
a
major
maintenance
issue,
as
we
try
to
keep
these
things
clean
and
perpetuate
them.
C
We're
also
looking
at
diversions-
that's
required
in
our
permit,
not
so
related
to
trash,
but
we
will
get
if
we
divert
stormwater
into
our
sanitary
sewer,
which
is
what
this
means
in
an
attempt
to
clean
up
the
stormwater.
We
will
deal
with
some
of
this
plastic
contamination
and
some
of
this
debris
as
well
and
then
there's
the
whole
thing
about
reporting,
because
once
we
get
into
all
of
these
regulatory
requirements,
of
course,
the
state
and
everybody
else
wants
detailed
reports
on
how
we're
doing
and
count
the
cigarette
butts
and
all
this
kind
of
thing.
C
So
it's
a
huge
burden
for
us.
This
is
one
thing
we
tried.
This
is
a
boom
on
matadero
Creek
above
the
shot
that
I
showed
earlier,
where
it
tends
to
hang
up
on
vegetation.
This
is
an
area
where
it's
still
concrete-lined
and
it's
accumulating
stuff.
You
see
our
truck.
You
can't
see
it
too
well,
but
that's
our
vector
truck
and
we're
trying
to
remove
this
stuff
from
behind
the
boom,
with
a
vector
truck
works
reasonably
well,
but
again,
another
time
saying
for
us
in
trying
to
remove
it
at
that
point.
C
This
is
some
of
the
stuff
we
took
out
at
the
boom.
So
then
there's
residuals
management.
So
if
we're
lucky
enough
that
it
didn't
go
into
the
environment
directly,
but
we
got
it
in
either
one
of
a
recycle
bin
or
a
trash
container
headed
to
the
landfill,
then
we
want
to
try
to
do
something
about
it.
So
here's
a
sort
line-
let's
say:
oh
well,
here's
the
landfill!
C
You
know
this
is
the
best
we
can
do
is
to
keep
it
out
of
the
landfill
I
mean
keep
it
out
of
the
natural
environment
and
put
it
in
the
landfill.
None
too
good,
we're
just
closing
our
landfill
in
Palo
Alto
after
many
years
of
operating
one,
not
a
good
way
to
deal
with
this
here
we
are,
somebody
is
trying
to
sort
the
stuff
that
the
garbage
and
you
can
see
the
incredible
amount
of
plastic
in
there,
an
especially
plastic
bags
plastic
film
of
all
types
very
hard
to
handle
on
these
sorting
lines.
C
Generally
speaking,
ends
up
on
the
floor
and
goes
to
the
landfill,
because
we
don't
really
have
the
technology
to
do
a
good
job.
Now
we're
trying
you
know
we're
telling
people
bag
it
within
a
bag
so
that
at
least
it's
big
have
a
big
clump
of
these
plastic
bags
and
for
us
at
least
I
still
consider
that
an
experiment
is
that
really
going
to
work
and
then
guys
really
pull
that
off
in
the
sorting
line.
But
that's
what
we're
doing
now,
it's
going
it
we're
telling
people
put
it
in
the
blue
container.
C
C
Here's
Mary
again,
one
of
our
frustrations
has
been
styrofoam
our
recycling
center.
We
had
to
discontinue
it.
It's
too
expensive.
It's
it
takes
up
too
much
room.
It
costs
too
much
money
to
cart
it
around
the
Bay
Area,
trying
to
figure
out
somebody
who's
actually
going
to
recycle
it.
So
we've
actually
stopped
taking
it
at
our
recycling
center
and
we're
not
letting
people
blue
bins
because
it
just
crumbles
up
and
doesn't
make
it
through
our
recycling
process.
C
C
This
cannot
be
the
way
to
do
it
just
another
shot
of
this
styrofoam
food
containers
and
plastic
water
bottles.
Building
up,
let's
see
how
we
doing
on
time
here,
two
minutes
all
right.
So
here's
a
Styrofoam
container,
a
my
favorite
thing
in
the
next
order
of
business,
I
think,
is
we're
going
to
have
to
address.
We
address
styrofoam
food
containers
in
palo
alto,
their
band.
C
I
have
to
say,
though,
last
saturday
night,
the
assistant
director
me
went
into
a
place,
and
here
I
served
up
a
plastic
I,
a
Styrofoam
container,
so
I
immediately
go
back
home
ten
o'clock
at
night,
I,
email,
car
and
I
said
car
and
you're
not
doing
your
job.
I
just
was
given
a
Styrofoam
container
there.
C
How
did
that
one
slip
through
the
net,
but
so
we,
but
at
least
there's
a
path
forward
there.
This
item
is
a
styrofoam
cooler
which
you
buy
for
two
dollars
at
safeway.
It's
basically
a
throwaway
cooler
who's
going
to
buy
something
for
two
dollars
and
then
treat
it
like
you
know
a
lifelong
possession,
so
they
get
left
on
the
beach
and
destroyed
crumbled
up
and
then,
of
course,
they're
going
to
be
washed
out
to
sea.
C
Here's
another
thing
the
assistant
director
had
to
do
last
week
in
front
of
trish
movies
house
I
think
somebody
was
trying
to
put
this
large
hunk
of
styrofoam,
because
that's
what
we
tell
them
to
do,
it
probably
didn't
fit
in
their
garbage
container.
We
tell
them,
don't
put
it
in
your
blue
bin
because
not
going
to
survive
recycling,
so
you
have
to
throw
it
away
and
her
neighbor.
Maybe
it
was
Trish,
I
was
this:
you
Trish
tried
to
probably
put
it
in
their
garbage
can
and
it
didn't
survive.
C
C
Thank
You
Trish,
yes,
I
knew
they
brought
me
to
City
Hall
for
some
reason.
I
just
didn't
know
it.
So
one
quick
I
one
minute
life
and
I
would
just
say
another
activity
that
we
can
do
besides
trying
to
clean
it
up
in
the
environment
and
besides
the
regulatory
restrictions
that
Miriam
and
others
are
going
to
focus
on
so
I
didn't
focus
on
those.
Obviously
there's
they
take
a
ton
of
time
to.
But
there
are
policies
and
we've
adopted
five
of
them.
C
Now
we
love
policies
and
how
I
personally
do
I
have
to
admit
so.
We've
got
a
sustainability
policy.
We've
got
an
extended
producer,
responsibility
policy
which
I
hoped
was
going
to
address
some
of
this
stuff.
We've
got
our
environmental,
preferably
purchased
preferable,
purchasing
policy,
but
that's
a
mouthful,
but
we've
got
one
and
then
we've
got
our
plastics
reduction
policy
where
we've
actually
outlawed
the
city
from
purchasing
and
using
plastic
water
bottles,
styrofoam
food
containers
and
plastic
bags.
So
that's
our
plastics
reduction
policy
and
we
can
add
to
that
list.
C
I
want
to
add
to
that
list.
I
want
to
put
these
coolers
on
that
list
and
then
what's
our
fifth
one
well
anyway,
we've
got
five
policies
that
I
was
thinking
of
that
relate
to
this
stuff,
o
our
latest
one
mayor,
druk,
meijer,
idea
an
externality
reduction
policy,
so
we
are
now
trying
to
reduce
things
which
caused
externalities
economic
externalities
in
the
natural
environment,
and
so
we've
come
at
this
five
different
ways
and
we've
still
got
a
lot
of
plastic
stuff
that
needs
to
be
addressed.
C
And
here's
a
guy
found
a
big
hunk
of
styrofoam.
Adopting
requirements
isn't
easy.
This
is
the
last
thing.
I'll
show
you
and
we
won't
go
through
it,
but
you
know
we've
done
this
and
others
have
and
it
ain't
easy,
especially
if
you're
a
little
ahead
of
the
power
curve
on
it.
All
of
this
stuff
has
to
be
done
and
when
it
gets
pushed
down
to
the
local
level,
I
have
to
say
be
far
more
efficient
to
do
it
at
the
state
level.
Do
it
at
the
national
level?
C
A
B
D
So
I
guess
that
my
question
to
phil
was
how
do
you
address
the
shop
owners,
the
small
independent
choppers,
which
we
really
want
to
support
in
vallejo
and
around
the
bay
area
with
the
additional
costs
of
packaging
which
which
has
a
very
real
impact
on
their
business,
which
is
really
strained
right
now?
So
I
guess
that's
that's
a
question
and
well.
C
For
us
you
know
we
are
a
little
bit
fortunate
in
that
Palo
Alto
is
a
community,
that's
very
interested
in
all
this
kind
of
stuff.
So
to
be
honest,
we're
able
to
roll
over
some
of
these
comments
from
you
know
smaller
businesses
that
might
be
harder
to
do
in
other
communities,
but
there
is
an
increased
cost
now
for
the
alternative
products.
I
think
we
have
to
admit
that.
C
However,
histories
told
us
that
that
won't
last
that
when
everybody
States
starts
buying
the
alternative
products,
then
those
prices
on
those
alternative
products
are
going
to
come
down
and
the
situation
will
be
self-correcting
and
we'll
move
forward
and
I
think
that's.
The
best
answer
will
have
a
short-term
blip
where
there
will
be
a
slight
increased
costs
to
these
businesses,
and
then
life
will
go
on
I'd.
B
Also
like
to
respond
to
that,
so
a
lot
of
the
ordinances
have
a
provision
built
into
them
that
a
business
owner
can
make
a
claim
of
economic
hardship
and
then
work
with
the
city
on
working
out
some
kind
of
arrangement.
I
know
the
city
of
San
Francisco,
which
has
I
think
the
oldest
polystyrene
ban
has
had
one
claim
of
economic
hardship.
B
After
is
maybe
Jack's
here,
I
don't
know,
but
after
3,200
businesses
or
so
have
come
into
your
2400
know,
thousands
businesses
come
into
compliance
and
so
and
I'm
in
talking
with
other
local
government
folks
who
have
some
ordinances.
These
claims
of
economic
hardship
are
not
being
made
for
the
most
part
and
I.
Think
one
of
the
reasons
is
that
they,
these
are
not
big
costs
relative
to
the
cost
of
providing
the
food
and
the
costs
get
passed
on
to
the
consumer,
and
it's
very
very
negligible.
B
So
almost
not
you
know
not
noticed
by
anybody,
and
we
have
48
jurisdictions
that
have
banned
polystyrene
food,
we're
in
California
in
some
way,
so
the
cost
issue,
although
it
comes
up
in
all
of
these
debates,
has
not
really
stopped.
Has
you
know
you
don't
see
businesses
going
out
of
business
because
of
these
bands?
I
would.
E
Also
suggest,
if
you
haven't
already
spoken
to
Josephine
Miller
at
the
Santa
Monica
City
office
of
sustainability.
She
has
a
lot
of
anecdotal
testimony
that
she
can
provide
you
from
store
owners
in
Santa
Monica,
who
have
uniformly
accepted
the
band
and
have,
as
Miriam
said,
not
made
any
claims
for
hardship
and
no
businesses
have
complained
since
the
ban
was
implemented
and
she
may
have
additional
information
for
you
and
one.
B
I
think
we
should
be
focusing
with
these
polystyrene
bans
on
just
the
problem
that
they're
a
bad
actor
in
the
marine
environment
in
our
waterways
really
hard
to
control
the
other
options
as
I'll
be
saying
later,
may
not
be
any
better.
So
why
should
we
by
what
the
alternatives
are
and
that
allows
businesses
to
choose
from
a
range
of
alternatives,
some
of
which
aren't
that
much
more
expensive
than
foam?
B
F
C
Plastics,
which
I'm
not
sure,
if
they're
really
much
of
an
improvement
yeah,
we
didn't
specify
alternatives.
We
followed
Miriam's
advice
and
so
with
respect
to
your
first
question
so
Karns
he
or
she
could
say
more,
but
we
did
visit
a
very
high
percentage
of
the
larger
businesses
and
blanketed
them
with
what
three
different
mailings
karn.
C
Now
we
did
not
go
to
all
of
the
teeny
little
places
that
might
have
styrofoam
coffee
cups
in
the
lobby
of
the
you
know
slippery
eel
motel.
We
did
not
go
to
those
places
because
those
frankly
were
the
only
places
that
had
objected
to
the
thing
in
the
first
place
and
we
just
didn't
want
to
get
into
a
big
fight
over
somebody
that
was
giving
out
a
few
coffee
cups
every
day.
But
if
we
get
complaints
about
that,
we
will
go
there
and
we
will
enforce
it.
F
I
really
ran
into
was
that
this
person,
from
the
count
from
the
chemical
chemical
company
came,
and
he
just
royally,
had
all
these
stats
tags
said
that
your
guys's
ordinances,
you
didn't
tell
all
the
bad
things
that
these
ordinances
do
and
he
had
all
these
stats.
How
do
you
guys
deal
with
that?
What
do
we
get
the
information
to
combat
these
guys
because
he
showed
up,
and
he
just
really
kicked
my
butt
with
these
stats
and
my
boss
is
sitting
there
looking
at
me
like
okay,
you
know
it's
like
how
do
you?
E
Already
heavily
into
the
policy
chargesheeted
there's
a
there's
a
lot
of
compendium
websites,
including
non-governmental
organizations,
clean
water
action.
Org
is
a
great
resource
for
statistics
that
are
accurate.
It's
hard
to
comment
on
specifics
that
I
haven't
seen
but
in
general
I
would
say,
be
very
suspicious
when
it's
the
you
know
fox
guarding
the
hen
house.
You
know
it's
someone
who
has
something
to
gain
by
having
their
product
not
banned,
giving
you
information
I,
think
also.
There
are
starting
to
be
more
sort
of
compendium
resources
available
on
state
agency
websites
and
I.
E
Think
you're
going
to
hear
more
about
that.
I.
Don't
want
to
sit
here
and
list
them
all
for
you,
but
there
are
places
where
you
can
do.
One
stop
shopping
to
get
accurate,
correct
information
and
there
will
be
contacts
listed
also,
so
you
could
call
an
expert
like
Miriam
or
email.
Her,
a
question
if
you
know
you're
really
being
assaulted
by
a
particular
set
of
that
was.
F
Was
cost
and
it
was
saying
that
you
know
cuz
one
of
the
arguments
that
I
said
is
you
know,
look
at
all
the
other
jurisdictions
that
have
done
this
and
that
it's
working
for
and
that
this
is
a
really
good
thing
for
the
environment,
and
so
it
came
a
lot
of
it
came
down
to
cost
and
and
how
these
and
how
other
products,
basically
don't
work
as
well,
and
they
have
problems
as
well.
You
know
we
run
into
those
types
of
issues,
and
I
was
okay
with
that.
F
It's
just
that
there
were
a
lot
of
numbers
and
when
you
start
sparring
off
number
it's
about
enough
numbers.
You
know
that
really
gets
people
attention,
especially
if
they're
not
familiar
with
the
industry.
You
know
someone
who's
just
sitting
in
on
a
meeting.
They
start
hearing
the
statistics
for
how
well
these
ordinances
really
work
and
how
well
they
don't.
And
you
know
those
types
of
things
on.
C
Cost
you
know
I
remember
having
my
sound
bite,
I've,
actually
forgotten
what
it
was,
but
the
sound
bite
is
you
take.
What
are
they
claiming
it's
even
ten
cents,
so
it's
a
10-cent
increment
on
the
high
side,
take
five
cents
and
then
compute
what
percentage
of
that
is
of
a
toe
of
a
typical
takeout
meal
of
ten
bucks
or
something
so
all
of
a
sudden
you're
talking
about
one
percent
of
the
total
cost,
it's
going
to
be
passed
on
it's
going
to
become
less
over
time.
C
I
mean
that
was
kind
of
my
sound
bite
is
what
percent
of
the
cost
of
the
item
is
this
thing
on
plastic
bags?
That's
even
easier
because
it's
you're
talking
a
couple
of
cents
on
twenty
or
thirty
dollar
grocery
bag.
You
know,
so
that's
the
kind
of
sound
bite.
We
came
back
with
it's
just
what
percent
increase?
Are
we
talking
about
now
until
the
industry
catches
up
with
the
alternate
with
the
alternatives
catch
up?
So
so.
B
I
just
say
that
there
are.
There
are
some
a
number
of
industry
arguments
that
keep
recurring
in
every
jurisdiction
every
time
a
jurisdiction
faces
this
and
we're
also
trying
to
ban
polystyrene
at
the
state
level.
Center
Lowenthal
has
a
bill
that
was
just
introduced
and
his
staff
person
Meegan
is
here
today
and
so
the
same
we
hear
the
same
arguments
over
and
over
I'm
sure.
Allison
is
going
to
be
addressing
those
issues
in
her
presentation
but
save
the
bay
allison
chan
from
save
the
bay
and
clean
water
action.
B
We
work
on
developing
responses
to
those
industry
arguments
and
we
would
be
happy
both
of
us
to
come
in
and
chat
with
you
or
talk
with
you
on
the
phone
and
give
you
our
talking
points
and,
and
that's
what
we're
here,
for
we
want
to
make
that
number
48
jurisdictions
that
ban
polystyrene
food
we're
go
up
and
then
see
that
that
happens,
that
we
have
a
statewide
ban.
So
we
have
a
consistent
policy.
Okay,.