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Description
The April 2018 charrette is the first of two design charrettes for the Vallco project. It is a multi-day opportunity for the Cupertino Community to collaborate with a multi-disciplinary team to craft a vision for the Vallco Special Area. This second Brown Bag Lunch Presentation was recorded April 11, 2018 at the Cupertino Community Hall. It focuses on economics and retail. (1 hr. 50 min.)
A
Good
afternoon,
everybody
I
really
appreciate
you
coming
out
middle
of
the
week
here
lunchtime,
spend
it
with
us,
that's
really
important
to
us
and
we
were
really
grateful.
So
my
name
is
Ben
Sigmund
I'm,
with
the
firm
economic
and
planning
systems
I'm
gonna,
be
joined
today
by
Steve
Lawton
who's
with
Main
Street
property
services
were
consultants
to
the
city
working
on
this
Valco
special
area,
specific
plan
and
advising
on
real
estate
markets
and
obviously
we're
dealing
with
a
mall
here,
and
so
we
we
really
wanted
to
have
a
deep
dive
on
unreached
a
land.
A
So
that's
largely
what
Steve
is
joining
us.
He
spends
day
in
and
day
out,
thinking
about
retail
and
malls
these
days,
and
so
he's
gonna
be
a
wealth
of
expertise
that
we
can
bring
to
bear,
and
what
I'd
like
to
do
today
is
give
you
a
pretty
brief
presentation
and
then
Steve's
gonna.
Do
this
deeper
dive
on
retail
trends,
get
the
juices
flowing
and
then
I
think
we'd
like
to
spend
at
least
half
the
time,
I'm
thinking
we'll
get
this
done
in
20
minutes
or
half-hour
presencing
of
presenting
and
then
and
then
really
do.
A
Q&Amp;A
I
was
here
on
Monday
night
and
did
this
breakout
discussion
after
the
presentation
and
it
was
really
rich.
I-
was
really
thrilled
to
engage
with
many
of
us
D
in
the
room
today.
Folks
have
some
great
ideas.
You
know
this
area.
Well,
you
know
this
site
well,
and
it
was
just
a
great
conversation,
I'm
hoping
we
can
continue
that
today,
so
I
hope
to
be
quite
interactive,
just
really
quickly.
The
firm
I'm
with
economic,
complaining
systems
about
35
years
of
practice
in
real
estate,
public
policy,
regional
economics.
A
The
the
slide
you
see
here
shows
many
of
our
core
competencies.
This
is
kind
of
work,
specific
plans,
assisting
cities,
assisting
developers
as
well
sort
of
our
primary
business
and
I
am
based
out
of
Oakland
and
do
all
my
work
in
the
Bay
Area
lots
of
work
in
Silicon
Valley,
as
well
as
San
Francisco
in
these
Bay.
A
So
just
a
kind
of
view
of
your
fine
city,
I've
called
it
cosmic,
cosmopolitan
Enclave
I,
don't
know
if
that
that's
fair
or
not,
but
about
60,000
residents
here
in
Cupertino,
and
just
looking
back
over
roughly
ten
years
about
a
six
percent
increase
in
population,
so
very
modest
kind
of
population
growth-
and
you
know
we
looked
at
some
of
the
the
surveys
that
the
city
does
and
saw
some
some
very
positive
things.
Almost
nine
out
of
ten
residents
are
satisfied
with
the
quality
of
life
here
in
Cupertino
and
schools
in
particular.
A
Our
reason
that
the
families
and
and
individuals
choose
to
be
here.
So
these
are
your
priorities.
It's
been
a
rapidly
evolving
economy,
though
40,000
jobs,
essentially
today
on
the
ground
here
in
Cupertino,
and
it's
really
a
headquarters
location.
As
you
well
know,
we
have
Apple
a
globally
known
firm.
We
also
have
Seagate
and
others,
and
it's
not
just
Apple
but
Apple's.
Certainly
the
Big
Dawg
and
this
this
growth
and
jobs,
I
think
is,
is
part
of
the
reason
we're
having
such
a
rich
conversation
about
this
site,
50%
increase
in
jobs
over
roughly
10
years.
A
It's
just
a
really
dramatic
statistic
and
that's
borne
out
by
state
of
California
employment
data
and
when
we
look
at
the
commute
patterns,
90
percent
of
those
jobs
are
folks
commuting
in
here.
So
well,
you
know
you
all
are
enjoying
quality
of
life
and
great
schools.
You're
sort
of
you
know
you're
accepting
in
a
tremendous
number
of
people
on
a
daily
basis
to
work
here
and
that
I
think
is
affecting
quality
of
life.
And
we
see
that
in
this
in
the
surveys
that
the
the
city
does.
A
Traffic
and
development
are
your
number
one
concerns,
which
is
why
I
think
this?
This
planning
process
has
been
so
well
attended
and
why
it's
so
important
that
we
continue
to
talk
about
how
to
grow
appropriately
and
here
in
Cupertino,
location,
location,
location,
I,
sort
of
blessed
and
I
may
be,
maybe
in
some
of
your
minds-
cursed,
right,
you're,
right
in
the
middle
of
Silicon
Valley
between
San
Jose,
where
lots
of
people
live
and
work
in
Palo
Alto,
where
the
venture
capital
flows
and
the
intellectual
capital
you
know
largely
originated
since
and
all
are
surrounded
entirely.
A
Sunnyvale
Santa,
Clara,
Mountain
View,
but
very
rich
employment
areas
and
and
sort
of
sprawling
residential
communities.
And
so
not
only
is
the
city
sort
of
centrally
located
well
located
to
attract
real
estate
development,
but
this
site
is
particularly
well
located
to
attract
real
estate
development.
I've
got
a
few
quotes
here
right
out
of
your
general
plan.
There
was
some
market
work
done
best
located
property
in
the
city
and
one
of
the
largest
redevelopment
opportunities.
Okay,
and
that
again,
why
we're
we're
so
focused
on
I'm
trying
to
get
this
right?
A
We're
gonna
talk
more
about
retail
later,
but
I
wanted
to
do.
A
couple
of
quick,
slides
retail
is.
Is
evolving
rapidly
we're
all
shopping
online?
More
while
it's
not
at
the
second
point,
there
are
a
huge
percentage
of
our
spending.
It's
it's
changed
so
quickly.
You
go
back
to
just
before
2000
around
the
dot-com
period,
less
than
a
percent
of
retail
shopping
was
occurring
online,
we're
now
at
seven
over
seven
percent
and
that's
not
even
the
newest
data,
that's
from
the
Department
of
Commerce
Federal,
Department
of
Commerce.
A
So
pretty
believable
statistic,
and
and
so
again,
while
you
know
well,
maybe
that
7%
isn't
mind-blowing,
that
the
rate
of
change
is
and
then
retail
stores
are
suffering
and
it's
it's
Steve's
gonna
speak
more
about
this,
but
the
these
department
stores,
in
particular
9,000
closings
in
2017,
I,
think
I
misspoke
on
Monday
night.
It's
the
three
stores
here,
as
well
as
a
number
of
other
retailers
that
have
closed
these
9,000
establishments.
A
Okay
and
then
I
want
to
talk
a
bit
about
the
graphic.
You
know
we
have
a
great
location
at
Valco,
but
when
you
look
at
the
other
super,
what
we
call
super
regional
malls,
you
can
see
how
close
they
are,
and
these
are
the
malls
that
are
thriving
in
it.
We're
all
shopping
at
now
and
so
we're
we're
really
sort
of
covered
in
terms
of
retail
and
Steve
and
I'll
talk
more
about
it.
But
in
the
u.s.
overall
there's
just
a
tremendous
amount
of
retail
per
capita
as
compared
with
Europe
in
Australia.
A
Something,
like
you
know,
I
think
it
for
you
Steve.
You
may
have
a
stat
in
your
presentation,
but
something
like
five
times
the
retail
square
footage
per
capita.
Then
we
see
other
sort
of
mature
economies
in
the
world,
so
a
challenging
environment
for
new
retail.
But
we
do
see
retail
investors
evolving
their
strategies.
I've
got
a
shot
here
of
new
Park
Mall,
which
is
up
in
Newark
on
the
880,
and
this
is
a
mall
that
that
didn't
die.
A
It's
got
its
anchors
in
place
and
just
to
stay
relevant
they're,
adding
food
they're,
adding
movie
theaters
they're,
changing
the
look.
It
feels
like
a
place
for
the
the
current
generation
to
spend
time
and,
and
they
that's
what
they're
trying
to
do
they
want
you
to
come
in,
enjoy
yourself
stay
length
of
stay
is
huge,
and
so
it's
not
just
a
place.
Do
your
shopping
but
a
place
to
spend
your
time
and
then
the
shot
below
is
hilltop
mall
up
in
Richmond.
This
one
is
suffering.
A
It's
struggling,
its
lost
an
anchor
as
well
and
they're
they're
innovating
entirely
in
that
they're
bringing
new
uses
to
the
site,
a
tremendous
amount
of
housing,
as
well
as
changes
to
the
to
the
makeup
of
the
mall
itself.
They're
gonna
take
one
of
those
anchor
boxes.
The
the
physical
real
estate
that
I
think
JCPenney
used
to
be
in
and
turn
it
into
a
parking
structure,
because
it's
just
not
going
to
be
a
department
store
ever
again
they're.
A
Also
finding
new
anchors,
they're
gonna
use
a
ranch
99
as
an
anchor
for
this
mall
and
with
that
comes
a
tremendous
amount
of
asian-influenced
retail
and
restaurants.
So
it's
just
a
very
different
strategy
and
that's
what
it's
taking
in
additional
a
lot
of
services
are
going
to
go
into
this
mall.
So
your
your
your
doctors
and
other
sort
of
professional
services,
you
might
need.
Okay,
let's
talk
about
housing.
A
A
I
showed
you
some
of
the
numbers
earlier
here
in
Cupertino:
50
percent
employment
growth
and
6
percent
population
growth-
it
just
is
that's
out
of
whack
and
that
well
more
more
sort
of
pointed
and
dramatic
here
in
Cupertino
as
an
issue
barrier
wide,
we
looked
at
the
housing
permits
in
the
city
and
there
has
been
permitting
there's
new
new
units
coming
online.
A
lot
of
them
are
single
family
units.
It's
it's!
A
We
use
data
from
the
Census
and
look
at
jobs
per
working
resident.
One
point
six
here
versus
one
point:
one
county
wide:
it's
over
three
in
palo
alto.
So
by
no
means
is
this:
are
you
the
worst
off
in
this
regard
and
having
a
lot
of
jobs
in
many
communities
would
would
be
you
know
all
they
could
ask
for?
A
But
I
understand
here
it's
creating
some
some
externalities,
some
some
friction
and
just
you
know
when
we
look
at
the
the
jobs
out
there
while
there
this
is
a
headquarters
location
and
there
are
very,
very
hot
what
I
calls
it
becomes
high-value
jobs
in
the
economy.
There
still
are
all
types
of
employees.
A
So,
even
though
it's
a
high-tech
company,
they
still
need
administrative
folks,
they
still
need
janitorial
services,
and
so
there's
demand
at
all
price
points
is
what
we
say:
it's
it's
not
just
luxury
housing
that's
needed
and
there
are
different,
there's
different
thinking,
but
for
the
you
know,
do
we
bring
damnit?
You
know
bring
housing
at
all
price
points,
or
do
we
bring
housing
that
the
market
demands
and
and
free
up
some
other
units.
I.
Think
that,
from
economist
standpoint,
bringing
any
new
housing
supply
will
help
stabilize
prices.
A
Think
as
compared
with
the
data
we
have
on
the
projects
here,
they're
a
little
more
compact,
these
units,
nine
hundred
roughly
square
feet
per
unit
here.
They
we
see
them
coming
in
a
bit
bigger,
and
you
know
whether
that's
zoning
or
that's
a
desire
of
the
the
developer
to
try
to
target
a
family
market.
It's
maybe
a
bit
of
both
but
I.
Think
there's
there's
an
opportunity
here
for
slightly
more
compact
housing
on
this
site
and
something
we
might
all
consider
fitting
more
into
less.
A
And
this
is,
you
know
these
types
of
units,
it's
99,
25
870,
that's
the
average,
so
that
might
be
a
two-bedroom
or
something
like
that.
I
mean
you
know
so
in
these
buildings,
you're
gonna
have
Studios
for
a
young
professional
you're,
also,
probably
going
to
have
some
larger
units
for
families,
but
but
I
think.
If
we
can
get
that
average
down,
we
can
fit
some
more
units
and
that
might
be
a
good
thing.
A
An
office
just
a
tremendous
amount
of
office
development
throughout
Silicon
Valley
us
coming
out
of
the
recession,
23
roughly
23
million
square
feet
in
the
county.
It's
it's
kind
of
a
mind-blowing
number,
but
what's
also
equally
astounding
is
the
degree
to
which
the
companies
have
gobbled
it
up.
So
coming
out
of
recession,
the
county
had
something
like
17
percent
vacancy
in
its
office
space
delivering
23
million
square
feet,
we've
not
only
we've
absorbed
that
and
more
we're
down
to
10
percent
vacancy.
A
So
pretty
healthy
market
I
sort
of
put
my
healthy
threshold
at
about
10
percent
and
we're
there
and
there's
a
lot
of
office
space
in
the
pipeline.
More
than
20
million
square
feet
of
office
planned,
but
when
we
consult
with
the
brokers
and
we
we
take
the
pulse
of
the
market-
it's
it's
really
insatiable
at
this.
You
know
and
the
economy
will
turn
and
these
these
perceptions
of
you
know
the
the
need
for
this
space
will
turn,
but
everyone
I
think
today
is
still
thinking.
A
This
is
all
quite
healthy
and
will
continue
to
evolve,
and
you
know
we'll
continue
to
have
to
solve
transportation
problems
to
go
along
with
that.
But
but
these
companies
really
want
to
be
here.
The
the
talent
is
here,
the
the
educated
labor
force
is
here.
So
this
is
a
prime
location
for
office
and
being
close
to
Apple
doesn't
hurt.
You
know,
I
think
when
we
look
at
office
space
of
Valco.
A
We've
got
one
under
construction
in
the
Valco
special
area.
Now
two
others
that
are
in
the
the
planning
pipeline,
and
so
the
mark
is
responding
to
the
the
strength
of
these
lease
rates.
The
strength
of
the
occupancy.
It's
really
driven
this
market
hotel
market
by
business
travel,
and
we
just
we
can
tell
that,
because
if
these
hotels
are
really
well
occupied,
90
plus
percent
during
the
week,
and
then
it
falls
off
on
the
weekend.
A
A
The
market
is
for
hotels
and
we've
got
the
Valco
site
outlined
here,
and
you
can
see
where
we
not
only
have
the
hotel
of
148
rooms
within
the
site,
but
we're
sort
of
surrounded
and
so
we're
feeling
pretty
well
supplied
for
hotel,
but
the
long-term
outlook
if
business
continues
to
grow
in
Cupertino
and
the
valley
is
that
another
hotel
certainly
could
be
part
of
the
programming
for
the
site,
and
so
before,
questions
and
discussion.
What
I'm
gonna
do
is
bring
up
Steve
Lawton.
A
As
soon
as
I
heard,
we
were
gonna
work
on
this
I
called
Steve.
He
was
here
over
the
summer
for
the
speaker
series
hosted
a
sort
of
discussion
of
retail
trends
with
with
brokers
and
developers
in
the
market
and
I
think
really
I
highlighted
a
number
of
the
challenges
and
opportunities
and
we're
going
to
continue
to
discuss
that
today.
So
let
me
just
bring
up
his
presentation.
Come
on
up
Steve.
A
B
It's
a
for
most
consumers,
it's
an
unseen
force
and
so
a
little
mysterious,
and
then
the
implications
back
in
the
on
the
public
policy
side
on
land
use
decisions
of
how
these
trends
are
impacting
our
cities.
Today,
you
know
some
folks,
typically
kind
of
don't
understand
how
the
business
works.
The
the
retailers
are
tenants
in
commercial
real
estate,
which
is
owned
by
others,
and
there
are
different
kind
of
tenants.
There
are
big
anchor
stores
like
grocery
stores
and
department
stores.
B
There
are
what
call
what
are
called
the
inline
stores
the
smaller
shops
today
they
typically
offer
personal
services
you'll
find
a
lot
of
those
but
a
whole
bunch
of
other
other
kinds
of
retail
are
offered
in
the
inline
stores
in
shopping
centers.
There
are
national
retailers
with
the
big
names
that
are
nationally
promoted,
and
then
there
are
local
retailers
with
the
you
know:
the
smaller
individual
individual
businesses,
and
then
there
are
the
mom
and
pops
and
the
independence,
the
one
offs
and
the
that
that
sometimes
succeed
and
usually
don't
but
but
can
generate
really.
B
You
know
really
interesting
new.
You
know
sort
of
new
potential
and
new
ideas
in
retail
US
retail
sales
is
an
astonishing
number.
It's
five
point:
one
trillion
dollars:
it's
really
the
business
end
of
the
whole
economy.
Well,
Business,
Center
of
about
a
third
of
the
economy,
is
selling
stuff
to
you.
B
B
The
rent
has
something
to
do
with
the
cost
of
construction,
but
most
of
these
buildings
are
reasonably
long
live.
So
we
begin
with
the
basic
rent
for
a
square
foot
of
sort
of
old
and
maybe
tilt
up
construction
and
the
base
rent
is
a
storage
unit.
What
does
it
cost
to
rent
a
storage
unit?
Well,
last
year
we
looked
at
in
Mountain
View.
B
It
was
two
dollars
and
37
cents
per
square
foot,
so
a
storage
unit
is
a
place
where
you
put
stuff
and
leave
it,
and
it
has
very
low
operating
annual
operating
costs
and
so
kind
of
the
the
base
of
a
store.
Shell
is
worth
about
two
dollars
and
37
cents.
Okay,
if
you
go
to
Los
Altos
and
you,
you
figure
out,
find
what
the
what
some
of
the
people
are
paying
in
rents
there
for
store
space
they're,
paying
less
than
storage
right,
which
means
that
that
property
is
less
valuable
than
a
place.
B
You
store
your
old
rugs
right.
That
means
that
that
location
is,
for
various
reasons,
is
less
productive
than
a
place
where
you
put
and
put
your
old
stuff
now,
but
it
goes
up,
it
could
go
up
to
four
and
a
half
Castro
Street
three
and
a
half
four
and
a
half
California
Avenue
goes
up
to
seven
dollars
and
seventy
cents
dramatic
changes
based
on
the
value
of
that
space.
B
The
operating
hours
are
not
regulated.
The
parking
is,
you
don't
belong
to
the
parking
and
there
are
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
conditions
in
street
retail
that
are
different
than
shopping.
Centers
shopping
center,
retail
in
Palo,
Alto
Mountain
View
is
last
year
we
looked
it's.
You
know
four
to
six
bucks.
These
are
kind
of
regular
numbers
for
sort
of
suburban
retail
locations,
and
they
they
spiked
up
you
can
you
can
find
all
kinds
of
different
different
numbers.
These
are
kind
of
the
numbers.
B
So,
but
the
point
here
is
that
the
value
of
the
retail
space
is
driven
by
factors
a
little
bit
about
the
building,
but
mostly
about
the
location
and
the
conditions
around
it
that
lets
you
operate
a
profitable
business
in
the
space
at
that
location.
Now
there
was
something
invented
with
in
the
lifetime
of
unless
they
two
generations
back:
okay,
I
called
the
shopping
center
right
shopping.
Centers
are
a
solution
to
the
problem
of
the
automobile
and
there
have
evolved
different
types
of
shopping
centers
and
that
evolution
is
actually
quite
recent
within
our
own
lifetimes.
B
This
idea
of
a
regional
center
is
something
that
happened
within
my
lifetime.
The
specialty
center,
which
is
like
a
you,
know
the
outlets
or
a
particular
line
of
line
of
commodities
that
that
occur
together.
The
enclosed
mall,
okay,
which
is
a
big
shopping,
a
bunch
of
stores
with
a
roof
over
it.
No
enclosed
malls
have
been
constructed
in
the
United
States
since
2000
the
grocery
anchored
neighborhoods
Center,
probably
the
the
most
common
type
where
you
have
a
grocery
store
and
then
a
suit
in
line
stores.
B
The
grocery
store
typically
pays
very,
very
little
rent
very
little
ground
rent.
The
in
line
stores
pay
pay
more.
So
the
business
there
is
the
in
line
stores
benefit
from
the
traffic.
The
anchor
just
barely
covers
his
costs
and
then
the
freestanding
retail
building
there
all
over
the
place
up
and
down.
You
know:
Wolf
Road
there
any.
C
B
Arterial,
you
can
see
freestanding
retail
buildings
in
a
variety
of
ownerships
in
a
variety
of
businesses.
There's
a
tremendous
amount
of
space
in
freestanding
retail.
They
do
not
benefit
from
Co
tenancy,
but
they
operate
very
well
because
they're
on
high
traffic
arterioles,
they
use
advertising
and
other
mat
other
means
to
get
people
to
make
a
special
trip
to
their
location.
They're,
also
very
convenient.
B
So
it's
it's
important,
I
think
to
to
kind
of
step
back
and
look
at
look
at
how
a
shopping
center,
let's
just
deal
with
shopping
centers
for
a
minute
how
they
operate,
and
most
most
consumers
and
citizens
and
neighborhood
very
good,
very
concerned
about
how
shopping
how
the
stores
look.
What
are
the
stores?
Who
are
the
tenants?
What
kind
of
goods
and
services
are
offered
there
and
that's
perfectly
reasonable,
but
you're
the
the
the
neighbors
citizens,
the
consumers,
the
shoppers?
The
visitors
really
only
see
one
side
of
of
what
that
firm
is
doing.
B
Okay,
the
firm
owns
that
owns
and
operates
the
center
and
to
borrow
a
little
highfalutin
management,
consulting
Theory
here
from
Peter
Drucker.
That
firm
is
dealing
with
a
whole
context
in
which
it's
doing
business
and
that
context
includes
the
legal,
regulatory
and
legislative
environment
in
which
it
operates.
The
suppliers,
the
the
the
suppliers
of
shops
and
stores,
are
really
the
tenants.
Okay,
it
it
deals
in
a
world
of
competition,
and
that
is
other
other
shopping,
centers
and
other
other
ways
that
people
get
their
goods.
B
So
if
you're
in
the
in
the
business
you're
paying
attention
to
who's
who's
competing
with
you,
how
the
culture
is
changing
and
and
the
sort
of
the
whole
social
environment
in
which
you
operate,
and
then
you
also
need
to
pay
attention
to
how
am
I
going
to
get
visitors,
shoppers
and
and
everybody
onto
the
property.
So
this
this
is
the
business
context
in
which
these
firms
make
their
decisions,
and
these
are
tend
to
be
sort
of
long
long-term
decisions.
B
In
that
business-
and
there
are
a
bunch
of
shopping
center
owners
in
the
country,
does
anyone
here
own
a
shopping
center?
Does
anyone
here
own
commercial
property?
Okay,
for
a
variety
of
reasons,
the
tax
law,
accelerated
depreciation,
there's
an
important
reason:
the
interstate
highway
Act
there's
a
hole.
You
can
write
books
of
all
the
reasons
why
this
is
true,
but
America
is
over
stored
shopping.
We
got
in
between
1995
and
2015
United
States
of
America
got
23%
more
shopping
centers,
we
increased
gross
leasable
area
and
that's
the
area
of
the
stores
by
30%.
B
Okay
and
the
population
only
grew
14%,
so
we're
growing.
We've
grown
reach
for
a
variety
of
reasons:
much
faster
than
population
total
retail
space,
the
United
States
18
billion
square
feet
that
works
out
to
55,
well,
more
than
55
square
feet
per
man,
woman
and
child
in
the
country
now
shopping,
centers
of
that
shopping,
centers
about
23,
okay,
so
in
Europe
they
seem
to
run
advanced
economies
seem
to
have
a
good
standard
of
living
kind
of
a
comparable.
They
get
they
get
away
with
2.9
square
feet.
B
So
that's
the
environment:
if
you're
in
the
shopping
center
business,
that's
the
environment
that
you
do
business
in
and
that's
the
environment
you
live
in,
you
have
a
tremendous
oversupply.
Well,
you
have
a
tremendous
large
supply
of
competing
product
of
your
competition
out
there
and
you
know
competing
with
your
with
your
location
and
your
asset
on
top
of
the
tremendous
supply
of
stores.
We
now
have
this
this
change.
B
Since
2008,
we
have
a
change
in
how
household
wealth
is
distributed
in
a
change
in
how
how
much
household
wealth
is
growing,
which
is
much
less
than
before.
We
have
changing
preferences
as
the
the
generations
turnover
and
tastes
evolved.
Good.
You
know.
Good
little
anecdote
is
in
2016
for
the
first
time,
foodservice,
that's
sales
in
in
restaurants
and
and
restaurants
of
all
kinds
and
bars
food
served
to
you
in
a
store.
The
amount
of
money
spent
on
that
exceeded
food
purchased
in
grocery
stores,
so
Americans
are
eating
out
more
than
they're
shopping
out.
B
Here's
a
little
little
piece
recently
from
National
Restaurant,
Association
66%
of
consumers,
American
consumers
now
say
they're
more
likely
to
visit
a
restaurant
that
offers
locally
sourced
food
items
right.
So
there's
there's
a
new
set
of
preferences,
and
this
is
this
is
just
life
and
society.
These
these
preferences
constantly
change,
but
now
you're
paying
attention
to
a
different
kind
of
restaurant
than
five
10
20
years
ago,
and
then
the
big
driving
force,
of
course,
is
this
idea
of
well
in
the
trade.
B
B
Well,
you.
There
are
bricks
and
there
are
cliques
and
that's
a
whole
other
presentation.
If
you're
in
the
business,
it's
a
fascinating
set
of
scenarios
that
you
can
spin
out.
So
the
idea
that
there
is
that
you
can
discover
you
can
you
can
have
discover
the
items
on
the
lot
online
and
then
you
can
buy
them
in
the
store
is
reduces
the
amount
of
retail
space
necessary
changes,
the
character
of
the
retail
space
changes,
the
value
of
the
location
of
the
retail
space
and
I.
Don't
know
what
else
there
is
it
changes
everything.
B
So
what's
happened
right
here
in
this
town,
I
brought
my
antique
machine
with
me,
I
always
like
to
bring
my
antique
machine.
This
is
a
Hasani
magic
link
was
invented
by
a
company
called
general
magic,
a
bunch
of
the
original
Macintosh
engineers
they
invented
this.
They
started
a
company
in
1995
I
made
the
mistake
of
buying
some
stock
in
the
company
bought
the
device,
but
it
has
all
the
object,
oriented
programming
in
it
that
you'll
find
in
an
iPhone.
B
It
was
kind
of
the
precursor,
the
iPhone,
so
being
a
complete
nerd
I
bought
one
of
these
and
it
worked.
You
know
they
had.
They
were
running
for
a
while
and
it
was
pretty
neat
but
I
bring
it
by
not
really
to
demonstrate
how
quickly
things
are.
Are
changing
you
know
and
we
have
the
iPhone
now
the
capabilities
are
moving
very,
very
fast,
and
so
it
kind
of
feels
like
this
is
sort
of
the
first
time
we're
disrupting
something
right.
This
is
we're
living
in
times
like
none
other.
B
No
other
people
have
dealt
with
this
kind
of
change
before
you
start
out
here,
there
was
a
little
bit
of
credit
card
stuff
going
on
in
that
box,
but
you
start
out
if
you
look
at
the
transaction
actually
being
able
to
buy
something
over
the
web,
that
was
like
a
1998
thing.
When
I
got
the
credit
card,
secured
credit
card
transactions
going
well,
that's
started,
and
then
that
brings
in
the
idea
of
shopping
and
delivery,
and
then
the
picture
here
is
of
the
whole
sort
of
the
whole
customer
interaction
chain.
B
So
you
start
out
by
enabling
the
transaction
you
go
backwards
to
where?
Where
can
I
buy
it?
That's
the
shopping
piece
before
that.
There
is
the
discovery
piece
where
you
know:
what
is
it
I'm
buying
a
firepit
from
my
backyard?
Where
can
I
buy
a
fire
pit?
Lo
and
behold
there
I
can
I
can
discover
that
online
and
then,
before
that,
there's
social
media
and
there's
all
kinds
of
ways
that
consumer
tastes
are
invented.
Why
do
I
want
to
buy
a
fire
pit?
Why
do
I
want
to?
B
Why
is
it
that
I
have
this
consumer
desire?
So
you
look
at
that
whole
chain
after
the
transaction.
Of
course,
you've
got
to
return
it
because
it
doesn't
fit
and
that's
a
interesting
break
and
an
interesting
friction
point
in
developing
these
electronic
commerce
system
and
then
you've
got
to
do
follow
on
customer
service,
and
so
more
and
more
of
these
steps
in
the
chain
are
being
automated.
B
Many
of
them
have
solutions
now
and
we're
going
to
see
continued
continued
evolution
in
in
how
stuff
gets
delivered
to
consumers,
how
consumers
decide
they
want
the
stuff
and
and
how
consumers
discover
the
stuff
that
may
or
may
not
involve
physical
stores.
So,
if
you're
in
the
business
of
owning
commercial
retail
property,
this
is
a
big
deal.
There's
a
huge
deal.
It's
a
threat
to
your
business.
The
there
are
many
different
forecasts
of
the
amount
of
electronic
commerce.
B
That's
occurring
my
favorite
I'm,
just
frankly,
borrowing
here
from
Cushman
&
Wakefield,
as
that
is
the
best
analyst
of
it
Garrett
Brown
his
forecast
is
12
percent.
We
we
see
that
Amazon
has
taken
out
licenses
to
be
a
to
be
pharmacy
pharmacy
licenses.
In
almost
all
of
all
of
the
states.
We
see
mergers
there.
Where
farmers,
you
know
the
next
category,
that's
going
to
go
into
fall
is
is
pharmacy
in
healthcare.
So
there's
this
relentless
move
to
you
know,
reduce
these
transactions
down
and
change
how
consumers
acquire
their
stuff.
D
B
Know
the
the
term
here
is
retail
apocalypse
Macy's
is
is
going,
Sears
is
a
zombie
all
the
big
department
stores
that
you
know
some
of
us
remember
our
are
going
away,
but
that
was
a
store
format.
The
idea
where
you
can
make
on
one
journey,
you
can
visit
several
different
departments
and
they
support
each
other
in
terms
of
merchandising
and
logistics
and
returns
that
that
model
comes
together
and
then
falls
apart.
Store
formats
are
transitory,
they
really
are,
and
the
that
has
an
effect
on
this.
B
This
idea
of
a
shopping
center,
this
form
of
shopping
center,
the
International
Council
of
shopping
centers,
which
is
the
trade
association
of
all
the
guys,
mostly
guys,
that
own
shopping
centers.
Without
a
doubt,
we
are
experiencing
one
of
the
most
profound
periods
of
evolution
within
our
industry.
Since
the
advent
of
the
first
suburban
malls
in
the
mid
1950s,
it's
no
question
about
it.
B
We
used
to
see
photo
mats
right,
we
don't
see
photo
mats
anymore.
You
don't
process
film
anymore.
There
are
city
codes
in
California
that
regulate
the
construction
of
photo
mats,
so
it
is
important
in
in
going
forward
to
pay
attention
to
what
what
really
matters
sort
of
on
a
higher
level
of
how
retail,
how
people
move
around
the
city
and
what
what
sort
of
your
objectives
are
and
what
your
goals
are
as
a
community.
In
my
opinion,
the
responses,
okay,
so
shopping
center
owners,
you
own
a
piece
of
property.
It's
in
a
city.
B
B
With
with
your
store,
some
of
these
big
department
stores
own
the
property
in
the
middle
of
the
shopping
center,
and
so
the
speculation
is
that
a
lot
of
tenants
are
just
waiting
around
for
Sears
to
fall,
and
then,
when
that
business
goes
dark,
then
their
leases
can
also
expire
as
well,
so
watching
Sears
fall
you're
going
to
watch
a
domino
effect
of
a
whole
bunch
of
changes
and
a
whole
bunch
of
center
across
the
country
like
870
locations.
So
there
are
different
responses
to
this.
B
The
hilltop
mall
I'm
up
at
Contra,
Costa
County,
the
hilltop
mall
example,
is
really
good.
One
of
repurposing,
the
mall
around
housing
and
around
more
of
a
of
a
daily
needs,
a
grocery
center
entertainment
is,
is
frequently
used
as
another.
You
know
how
do
we
get
people
to
the
property
to
spend
time,
spend
time
and
spend
money,
but
also
shop
at
the
other
stores?
Well,
how
are
we
relevant
anymore
if
we're
in
this
world
of
electronic
commerce
food
halls?
B
On
that
space
being
being
very
careful
about
what
mix
of
merchandise
that
you
put
into
your
into
your
mall,
the
malls
aren't
dying,
they're
changing,
but
they're
also
dying
the
earlier
three
days
ago,
Five
Points
announced
that
they're
stopping
work
on
a
half
a
million
square
foot
mall
an
owners
point
you're,
just
stopping
mace
rich
was
the
partner
there
they
pulled
out
they
don't
they
don't
see
a
kind
of
a
future
in
it.
So
there's
a
it's
a
variety
of
responses
in
repositioning
shopping
centers
and
it
kind
of
feels
like
we've.
B
Never,
you
know
this
is
like
new
new
territory.
You
know
we've.
How
can
we
deal
with
this?
This
has
never
happened
before,
except
that
happened
before
it
happened
in
1920
in
October
1920,
the
Los
Angeles
City
Council
put
parking
restrictions
on
downtown
LA,
because
these
new
things
called
automobiles
were
crowding
up
the
place
and
that
really
started.
That's
really
the
route
of
the
of
the
to
the
shopping
center
in
America,
as
we
know
it
today.
B
So
there
were
a
lot
of
lot
of
experiments
with
the
form
of
the
the
shopping
center,
and
this
is
an
early
one
where
you'd
have
the
different
departments,
and
you
can
just
drive
to
it.
It's
kind
of
fun
to
see
these
old
antique
stores
and
then
these
larger
stores
happened,
and
there
was
a
lot
of
experimenting
done
over
the
last
70
80
years
of
what
the
shape
of
these
things
look
like
and
that
experimenting
had
a
lot
of
implications,
a
lot
of
thoughtful
people.
B
This
is
a
diagram
from
1927
of
the
LA
City
Plan,
the
board
of
City
Planning
commissioners,
trying
to
figure
out
what
would
be
the
the
best
way
to
to
lay
out
a
in
automobile
oriented
shopping
center
in
Los
Angeles,
and
some
of
these
ideas
gave
rise
to
the
forms
that
we
are
familiar
with
today
and
don't
really
think
about
how
to
go
to
the
store.
So
today,
in
this
in
this
world
of
change,
what
does
Wall
Street?
What
does
what
do
the
investors
look
at?
B
How
do
they
view
real
estate
as
an
asset
and
what
are
the
choices
that
they
think
they
have?
Okay,
they're
constrained
by
the
legal
regulatory
environment,
but
there
are
also
constrained
by
the
environment
of
capital.
Where
does
capital
go
in
this
country
and
it
goes
to
places
where
returns
are
good
based
on
risk?
B
Well,
there
is
no
there's
a
feeling
on
Wall
Street
right
now
that
there's
no
worse
investment
than
a
poor-quality
mall,
and
this
is
right
out
of
the
Urban
Land
Institute.
There's
the
emergency
merging
trans
report
was
last
year.
It's
the
same
thing:
suburban
office,
power,
centers
and
regional
malls.
Are
you
know,
fair
to
abysmal
in
terms
of
investment
prospects
and,
at
the
high
end,
are
urban
high
street
retail
and
neighborhood
and
community
shopping
centers?
So
if
you're
going
to
invest
in
real
estate,
you
have
a
choice
of
dozens
of
different
categories.
B
B
That
firm
is
going
to
be
constantly
making
a
decision
about
whether
to
put
more
money
in
or
not
or
to
transact
the
property
and
find
somebody
else
with
different
preferences,
and
it's
going
to
be
based
on
what
the
net
operating
income
of
the
asset
is.
Where
you
are
in
the
business
cycle,
what
are
the
construction
costs
and
and
the
risk
of
that
cost?
How
long
is
it
going
to
take
to
get
approved?
These
are
all
the
factors,
so
the
the
the
business
now
understands
the
following
trends:
retail
so
places
retail
spaces.
B
Oversupplied
ecommerce
is
significantly
reducing.
The
total
per
capita
requirements
for
retail
space
in
important
categories
is
significantly
changing
the
shape
and
function
of
retail
real
estate
as
seen
and
felt
by
shoppers.
The
day
of
the
department
store
is
over.
Owners
of
retail
real
estate
are
pulling
back
on
new
shopping,
centers
and
they're.
Repositioning
existing
selected
centers
and
shopping
centers
not
built
to
serve
daily
needs.
Those
are
the
grocery
store.
Grocery
centers
will
be
seen
as
redevelopment
sites
or
as
evolving
it
in
new
formats.
This
is
the
industry.
There's
just
no
question
about
it.
B
So
at
the
industry
conferences,
this
is
taken
as
a
given.
So
this
is
where
I
get
to
show
the
slide
of
my
grandfather
in
his
pharmacy
at
the
corner
of
Florence
and
Normandy
in
Los
Angeles
in
1923,
and
this
is
kind
of
the
picture
of
what
we
all
kind
of
harken
back
to
as
a
community
where
you
can
meet
your
meet
your
friends
and
get
a
get
a
prescription
from
from
granddad,
and
also
to
revisit
some
of
the
policy
choices
that
city
leaders
needed
to
make
in
1925.
B
Where
were
little
workers
live?
They
had
a
housing
crisis,
they
had
to
understand
how
to
build
suburban
communities.
That
would
include
all
of
the
functions,
including
housing
and
shopping,
and
they
had
to
figure
it
out
and
that's
it.
You
know
kind
of
how
we
are
today
and-
and
so
where
we
are
today,
is
that
as
residents
we
we
have
place.
B
We
have
learned,
been
taught
and
learned
to
place
some
great
reliance
on
retail
retail
streets
and
retail
and
shopping
centers
as
places
that
are
amenities
to
the
community
and
the
the
reality
is
that
those
amenities
are
available
so
long
as
the
economy
is
in
a
certain
state
and
growing
today.
Those
those
centers
in
those
retail
places
are
under
great
stress,
great
turmoil
and
transition,
and
you
really
only
can
see
it
from
one
side
of
the
equation,
and
that
is
what
is
it?
Who
are
the
tenants?
What
does
it
feel
like
to
walk
there?
B
Is
there
enough
parking?
You
only
see
one
side
of
that
picture.
There
are
other
amenities
in
the
community
that
that
I
believe
in
the
near
future
will
rise
in
importance.
Private
amenities
that
are
provided
by
Elmer's
associations
and
golf
courses,
civic
places
in
buildings
which
we
have
systematically
under
invested
in
due
to
proposition
13
and
so
forth,
and
then
the
Legacy
Place
is
the
wild
places
that
have
been
protected.
That
are
great
amenities
for
for
especially
in
the
Bay
Area.
So
those
are
some
other
choices
that
communities
have.
E
So
getting
into
the
weeds,
but
this
conversation
is
I'll
just
say
that
before
we
open
it
up,
we've
heard
so
much
about
retail
and
so
much
about
the
economics
that
this
is
a
very
important
conversation.
So
we
want
to
give
the
time
and
I'd
like
to
keep
all
the
questions
to
retail
and
economics
for
this
session.
So
Jay
you're
gonna
go
around
with
the
mic.
Okay
and
let
one
of
these
guys
yeah
and.
A
A
A
If
we
can't
it's
it's
probable
that
the
the
site
will
not
change,
we
it's
incumbent
on
us
to
come
up
with
a
plan
that
that
is
attractive
to
investors,
attractive
to
the
risk
tolerance
of
this
this
land,
owner
or
or
a
future
land
owner.
So
that's
my
first
thought
that
the
second
is
that,
when
we're
dealing
with
these,
you
know
50-plus
acre
major
redevelopment
sites.
A
common
strategy
is
phasing
okay,
it's
not
as
if
we're
gonna
sink
a
shovel
and
then
in
two
years
open
up
this.
You
know
multi
million
square
foot
facility.
A
It's
gonna
happen
in
small
bites,
so
we're
gonna.
Do
a
two
hundred
unit
housing
complex,
followed
by
another
two
hundred
unit
housing
complex
or
we're.
Gonna,
do
half
a
million
square
feet
of
office,
followed
by
another
750,000
square
feet
of
office
and
that
allows
for
the
management
of
market
risk
and
timing
and
cycles,
and
it
gets
tricky
when
you're
dealing
with
infrastructure.
Sometimes
there
are
infrastructure
bites
that
are
big
at
the
beginning
and
that
that
that
can
be
really
scary,
so
that
that
is
something
we'll
be.
A
F
A
Yes,
so
real
estate
is
a
little
bit
old-fashioned
and
risk-averse
to
the
to
the
earlier
comment,
and
so
it
tends
to
follow.
What's
proven,
successful
in
a
market
right
and
in
here,
I
think
with
the
the
profile
of
those
projects
were
rental
projects,
the
profile
of
new
rental
in
in
Silicon
Valley.
That's
where
it's
kind
of
gravitated
and
I
think
we're
dealing
with
young
professionals
renting
these
places
in
a
lot
of
cases
and
that
sort
of
brought
that
average
square
footage
down.
A
But,
like
I
said
that
you
know
it's,
it's
an
average
and
in
that
mix
is
sort
of
studios
ones,
twos,
maybe
three
bedrooms,
but
we
have
seen
the
sizing
gravitates
smaller,
and
so
it's
partly
it's
matching
that
market
that
they
see
and
the
successful
absorption
or
rental
of
units
around
them.
And
it's
also
that
they
can
bring
the
price
points
down.
A
So
you,
without
necessarily
lowering
the
price
per
square
foot,
so
it's
very
attractive
to
to
developers
to
do
smaller
units
because
they
tend
to
get
a
rental
rate
that
is
higher
on
a
first
square
foot
basis,
making
the
overall
project
worth
a
bit
more.
So
I
think
those
are
a
couple
of
factors
that
have
driven
that.
Those
more
compact
units.
G
So
we've
heard
that
retail
in
a
sense
needs
to
be
subsidized
by
other
things
in
order
to
quote-unquote
pencil
out
for
the
developers.
So
as
we
look
at
the
options
for
Valko,
what
what
are
the
other
things
that
can
subsidize
retail
other
than
offices
we're
all
worried
about
the
office
space?
So
what
are
the
other
things
getting
subsidized?
We
can't
Housing
subsidized
it
enough.
What
are
the
other
options?
G
B
H
B
The
day,
there's
a
you
know
a
big
spreadsheet
and
there's
going
to
be,
you
know
some,
you
know
if
there's
some
subsidy
that's
required.
Often
cities
require
ground-floor
retail
to
occur
on
multifamily.
You
know
vertical
multifamily
buildings
and
those
those
spaces
are
set,
as
the
the
developer
expects
zero
rent
from
those
from
those
sites,
and
so
anything
you
know
anything
above
that
is,
you
know,
is
net
profit.
That
means
that
the
you
know
the
the
residents
and
the
apartments
above
are
paying
a
portion
of
their
rent
for
blank
retail
space
on
the
ground
floor.
B
So
there's
you
know
the
variety
of
ways
without
getting
into
the
specifics
of
a
particular
project.
It's
hard.
You
know
kind
of
hard
to
respond
to
that.
There's
lots
of
different
ways
to
do
that.
I
guess
the
issue
there
is
from
a
city
standpoint
from
a
community
standpoint.
What
is
the
you
know
what
what
it?
What?
What
is
the
amenity?
What
is
the
you
know?
It's
really
not
the
concern
so
much
of
how
is
a
private
business
doing
its?
What
are
you
doing
for
me?
B
A
Me
just
add:
I
mean
it's
so
I
appreciate
the
question
and
actually
just
in
you
know,
from
Monday
through
today.
Now
we've
received
that
question
in
sort
of
various
forms
that
it's
essentially
what's
going
to
drive
value
at
this
site.
I
think
the
community
is,
is
accepting
that
that
office
is
extremely
desirable
from
a
market
perspective
consistent
with
the
presentation
and
the
the
other
main
opportunity
to
create
financial
value
is
market
rate
housing,
and
so
you
know
we
we,
when
we
look
at
this,
because
the
city's
policy
is
15
percent,
affordable.
A
The
SP
35
proposal
comes
with
50%
of
horrible
that
really
eats
into
the
value
creation
of
the
the
housing.
So
you
really
are
kind
of
left
with
office
as
it
you
know,
if
you're
gonna
have
a
significant
amount
of
affordable
housing
biting
into
the
value,
it
leaves
office
as
a
real
way
to
kind
of
cross.
A
Subsidize
that
create
that
revenue
and
I
had
a
really
interesting
conversation
with
a
Stanford
grad
student
in
planning
asking
about
public
finance
and
public
funds,
and
are
there
ways
that
if
the
community
wants
a
certain
project,
they
can
bring
other
dollars
to
this?
To
make
it
happen,
and
that's
rare
but
but
a
possibility
as
well.
H
H
Don't
know:
do
you
want
to
hold
it
while
I'm
standing
here,
okay,
I
am
a
housewife.
I
was
in
tech
for
30
years,
I
got
laid
off
in
2000
and
I'm.
A
housewife
I
am
responsible
for
four
seniors.
In
my
family
divorced
parents,
remarried
that
are
in
their
80s,
they
all
have
their
own
homes
and
they
all
have
money
to
burn
to
shop.
They
need
pennies
and
they
need
Sears.
Okay,
is
there
I
hear
all
the
time
about
the
only
people
that
are
living
in
Silicon
Valley
are
young
tech
workers
that
are
20
to
25?
H
What
about
all
the
people
over
60
that
live
here
and
have
money
to
burn?
Where
are
they
supposed
to
be
shopping
for
clothing,
my
mother's
85
and
doesn't
have
internet
access
and
she
is
owned
her
own
home
for
many
years,
so
I
don't
see
the
seniors
in
the
equation
here.
I
do
all
their
shopping
and
believe
me,
I
pump
thousands
of
dollars
into
Capitola
shopping
center
because
we
have
no
sears
left
at
Valco
and
I'm
sorry,
my
mother
likes
Sears
yeah.
What
about
the
seniors?
They're
all
left.
E
B
I
I,
so
so
I
think
we
are
designing
this
project
for
the
future.
We
have
a
housing
crisis,
they
say
today
and
the
way
have
stayed
lost.
That's
encouraging
or
forcing
all
the
cities
to
build
population
of
Palo
Alto
we'll
have
to
tap
our
triple
because
have
three
times
more
jobs
and
population.
Around
great
mo
will
double
population
in
Cupertino
will
double
and
still
Jose
will
be.
Building
thousands
Sunnyvale
will
be
building
thousands
of
units
for
Cupertino.
We
don't
have
just
welcome.
I
However,
Valco
is
the
only
site
large
enough
for
a
shopping
mall
for
population,
that's
going
to
double
triple
in
the
next
few
years,
even
if
online
shopping
goes
to
20%
or
30%,
you
are
stood
still
looking
at
a
sixty
to
eighty
percent
increase
in
shopping
demands.
Valley
Fair
today
is
already
crowded
great,
most
crowded,
all
the
shopping
regional
shopping
malls
were
built
30
years
ago.
They
are
crowded.
We
have
a
really
good
chance
to
build
a
unique
shopping.
Mall
in
AdvoCare
about
next
generation
is
smart,
more
in
vogue.
I
A
I
think
we're
good.
Thank
you
appreciate
the
comment
and
I
want
to
first
agree
with
with
your
you're
one
of
your
pieces,
which
is
that
this
is,
you
know,
as
the
general
plan
says,
probably
the
largest
at
you
know,
site
well
located
in
the
city,
so
it
so
it's
a
great
opportunity
for
the
city
to
do
something.
What
I
would
say
at
scale
right
to
create
essentially
a
new
district
of
the
city,
and
so
this
this
opportunity
is
kind
of
a
one-of-a-kind,
absolutely
and
then
in
terms
of
retail
I.
A
Think,
it's
fair
to
say
there
will
be
retail,
and
what
we're
here
trying
to
describe
is
the
way
retail
is
evolving
away
from
old
models
and
towards
new
models.
And
so
by
no
means
are
we
up
here
saying
you
can't
have
retail
we're
up
here,
saying
the
retail
you're
likely
to
get
that
the
market
and
against
were
strictly
sort
of
market
perspective.
We're
not
coming
from
a
policy
perspective
today
we're
coming
from
an
economic
and
financial
perspective
and
we're
saying
that
the
market
probably
does
not
want
to
invest
in
a
mall.
J
J
But
you
made
a
statement
that
you
said
eating
out
is
here's
my
clarification
part.
You
made
a
statement
that
more
money
is
spent
in
eating
out
than
in
groceries
to
me,
that's
an
assumption
that
more
eating
is
being
done
of
pre-prepared
food
or
prepared
food,
because
money
spent
is
based
on
what
is
charged
and,
and
there
aren't
cheap
restaurants.
I
mean
restaurants,
overcharge
all
the
time.
B
J
B
At
the
point,
the
point
of
the
statistic
is
that
there's
a
there's,
a
shift
in
demographics,
a
shift
in
shopping
preferences
that
is
significant
because
it
in
a
it
it
supports
more
food
service,
more
restaurants,
in
shopping
centers.
Then,
when
I
was
a
kid,
there
were
most
of
the
most.
Your
purchases
were
made,
you
know
in
grocery,
and
going
out
to
eat
was
kind
of
a
special
thing.
People
eat
out
a
lot
more
now,
that's
just
pretty.
They.
J
Do
but
there's
no
there's
nothing
saying
that
people
are
eating
out
more
than
they
are
preparing
their
own
meals.
That's
my
point
and
it's
like
saying
more
tests.
More
people
are
spending
money
on
tesla's
than
they
are
on
Hyundai's
well,
of
course,
because
they're
more
expensive,
so
it
I,
don't
there's
just
too
many
assumptions
in
that
I
would
like
to
say:
okay
and
here's
the
question
and
a
concern.
J
Phasing
of
projects
like
this
is
tricky
and
if
there's
not
good
control
over
the
priorities
of
what
gets
built
first
and
occupied
first
often
things
I
mean
you.
You
mentioned
the
new
center
at
bay.
Point
is
being
abandoned.
It
sounds
like
you
know:
where
was
the
phasing?
How
did
that
fail
and
phasing
or
where
is
the
issue
there,
and
we
with
particular
developers
who
have
a
history
of
doing
things
that
are
not
so
great
when
they're
given
a
little
leeway
and
they
go
back
on
their
word?
J
A
It's
alright,
you
know
it.
It's
typically
done
in
a
full
private
setting
to
kind
of
establish
some
critical
mass
first
create
place
right.
They
need
to
build
momentum
in
the
project
right.
So
a
lot
of
times,
you'll
see
the
you
know,
the
hundred
percent
corner,
the
the
you
know
the
place
where
everyone
sees
they.
They
they
sort
of
have
a
signature.
First,
move
that
that
shows
that
you
know,
there's
a
certain
kind
of
demon,
themed
development
coming
right
and
it
builds
on
that,
and
so
you
know
that
be
pure
private.
A
We
also
need
you
to
deliver
a
first
phase
of
housing
and
we're
not
going
to
approve
or
issue
permits,
building
permits
for
the
next
phase
of
office
until
you've
completed
your
full
first
phase,
forcing
the
developer
to
come
along
in
steps
that
are
agreeable
to
the
city.
So
there
are
some
ways
to
to
influence
control
some
control
over
it.
I.
B
Think
my
points
really
work.
Phasing
is
seldom
done
in
retail
for
a
variety
of
reasons.
Phasing
is
done
in
housing,
to
sort
sort
of
build
demand
and
and
and
and
manage
risk
of
a
project,
but
I
think
it's
important
that
there
that
I
was
a
Community
Development
Director
for
a
city
in
in
the
Bay
Area.
For
ten
years
the
city
doesn't
build
anything.
The
city
allows
or
doesn't
allow
construction
on
a
site.
So
the
decisions
about
what's
going
to
occur
there
really
are.
B
D
Thanks
thanks
for
your
work,
thanks
for
coming
here
today,
I
also
want
to
thank
you
for
recognizing
the
difference
between
what
the
market
does
and
that
there
is
a
place
for
policy.
I.
Think
that's!
You
know
why
the
community
is
being
involved
in
this
design
process
because
we're
trying
to
come
up
with
something:
that's
not
just
market
driven
but
is
satisfying
the
community
and
that's
what
policy
is
about.
So
thanks
the
second
one
for
you
Ben,
please,
you
showed
on
your
slide
that
90%
of
people
commute
into
Cupertino
for
work.
D
You
didn't
show
that
I
believe
it's
about.
90
percent
also
commute
out,
so
it
goes
both
ways
and
when
you
just
show
the
one
slide,
it
kind
of
suggests
that.
Well
we
need
more
housing
here
so
that
people
won't
have
to
commute
so
far
and
I
want
to
follow
that
up
with
something
that
you
told
me
the
other
night
that
I
just
like
you
to
save
for
people
here,
and
that
is,
if
you
build
office
here
and
housing
adjacent
to
it.
D
A
So,
thank
you,
I.
You
are
correct.
We
looked
at
both
the
in
commuting
and
the
out
commuting
and
absolutely
this.
This
is
a
city
where
ninety
percent
come
in
during
the
day
and
90
percent
of
your
working
residents
commute
out
so
there's
there's
traffic,
both
ways,
absolutely
correct
and
then
on
building
housing
near
jobs.
What
I
said
the
other
night
is
that
I
believe
we
have
essentially
a
nine-county
Bay,
Area
job
market
and
that
people
will
travel
for
the
right
job.
A
We
also
have
some
of
the
highest
levels,
I
think
in
history
of
two
income
households.
So
we
we
see
that
oftentimes,
a
family
will
decide
to
live
midpoint
between
two
job
locations,
and
so
it's
absolutely
true
that
that
building
housing
next
to
jobs
is
not
a
panacea.
That
said,
providing
housing
near
jobs
could
help.
In
terms
of
you
know
as
compared
with
a
comparison
of
no
jobs
near
the
or
excuse
me
note,
housing
near
those
jobs,
everyone's
forced
to
commute
it.
So
is
a
good
thing,
but
it's
not
the
solution
to
the
traffic
problem.
D
Thank
you.
Okay
in
my
last
I,
don't
know
if
it's
a
comment
or
a
question,
you
can
take
it
as
a
question
if
you
want-
and
this
is
for
both
you
by
the
way
you
tended
to
focus
on
the
the
doom
and
gloom
side
of
retail
and
I-
think
we
get
it
retail
is,
is
changing.
There
are
challenges,
but
you
chose
to
focus
on.
What's:
what's
not
working
or
the
difficulties
you
I,
don't
even
think
you
mentioned
Valley
Fair.
You
know
a
couple
miles
down
the
highway
currently
undergoing
a
1
billion
dollar
expansion.
D
We
have
examples
in
West,
Gate,
closer
by
15
million
dollars.
Recently
us
Street,
street-level
stuff,
that's
happening
right
in
with
all
of
the
success
around.
How
do
you
reconcile
that
with
the
doom
and
gloom
and
unless
you
have
a
compelling
story
for
this
I
think
myself
and
other
residents
are
going
to
continue
to
believe
that
retail
can
stand
by
itself.
It
doesn't
need
office
or
anything
else
to
subsidize
it,
because
we
have
so
many
successful
examples.
So
again,
that's
just
I.
Don't
want
to
answer
that,
but
if
that's
more
more
a
comment
right.
B
Doing
very
well
could
do
that.
Federal
Realty
down
in
Santana
Row
was
was
barely
meeting
their
cost
of
capital
until
recently,
and
just
things
really
took
off
and
at
the
value
end
me
Pueblo
is
the
grocery
store
stock
to
buy
grocery
anchored.
Centers
are
doing
very
well
and
they're
trading
very
well.
So,
if
they're
well
positioned
for
good
value,
but
at
the
lower
price
points
in
the
lower
service
levels
and
the
lower
maintenance
levels
and
the
lower
amenity
levels
for
the
community,
those
centers
are
doing
are
doing
very
well.
B
What
is
disappearing
is
the
the
guys
in
the
middle.
The
safe
ways
have
been,
you
know,
are
getting
crushed,
but
a
lot
of
stress
from
Walmart
and
Costco.
You
know
the
department
stores
in
the
middle,
the
pennies
and
the
Sears
Kohl's
was
doing
an
interesting
play
sort
of
straddling
that
so
the
market
is
bifurcating.
B
K
Hi
thanks
for
the
dollars
per
square
foot,
you
know
the
actual.
What
are
people
paying
in
retail
I
would
like
to
add
to
that
the
context
of
what
does
the
developer
get
in
dollars
per
square
foot
for
housing
and
office
space
to
understand
the
trade-offs,
and
are
we
talking
two
three
four
times?
What
what's
the
order
of
magnitude
that
we're
talking
there
and
I'd
really
like
to
understand
that
I
would
like
to
have
gotten
that
today,
in
the
economics
of
designing
this
and
developing
us
from
the
developers
perspective.
A
Thank
you
for
the
comments
so
and
I
do
apologize
on
Monday
night
I
did
a
slide,
show
and
presented
at
least
rates
for
all
the
land
uses.
I
didn't
repeat
that
tonight.
So
that's
on
there
on
the
record
available
online
for
your
look
you're
viewing,
but
to
answer
your
question
directly:
the
residential
real
estate
Garner's
about
375
to
$4
per
square
foot.
A
So
if
you
have
a
thousand
square
feet
3750
a
month
and
what's
important
to
note,
though,
is
that
these
commercial
real
estate
lease
rates
are
quoted
in
different
ways,
so
when
I
say
$3.75
a
foot
for
residential,
that's
all
in
right,
so
they're
taking
care
of
the
building
they're
taking
care
of
you,
know:
electric
real
estate
tax
so
on
and
so
forth.
That's
all
I
pay!
A
When
you
see
these
lease
rates
for
retail,
it's
called
triple
net,
meaning
that
the
the
actual
tenant
pays
all
that
on
top,
so
you
can
create
an
equivalency,
but
these
these
retail
lease
rates
are
quite
a
bit
higher
than
than
residential
an
office,
it's
very
similar
to
residential
it's
on
the
order
of
four
dollars,
a
foot
full
service,
meaning
you
get
everything
all
of
the
building
maintenance,
tax
and
insurance.
In
that
rate,
so
the
elites
lease
rates
for
retail
are
bit
higher,
but
I
think
it's
also
important
to
note.
A
Steve
was
talking
a
bit
about
this,
that
retail
is
hypersensitive
to
location
right.
So
if
you've
got
the
best
location
in
Palo
Alto,
maybe
it's
$10,
a
foot.
I,
don't
know
you.
Do
you
tell
me
you
Steve,
but
$12,
a
foot,
ok,
triple
net!
So
then
you're
paying
all
your
real
estate
tax
insurance
on
top
of
that
maintenance,
but
if
you're
around
the
corner
on
the
alley,
it
might
be
three
right.
A
So
it's
just
really
important
we're
showing
your
averages
we're
trying
to
give
you
a
sense
of
value,
but
it's
very
important
to
kind
of
acknowledge
that
they're
there,
especially
in
retail,
there's
this
spectrum
of
good
location,
not
good
location,
and
it
has
a
tremendous
effect
on
these.
These
rates,
and
so
ok.
K
A
A
that's
a
great
question,
because
I
didn't
touch
that
and
I
didn't
show
you
any
for
sale
levels,
there's
minimal
condominium
stock
in
town.
It
really
depends
to
a
great
degree
on
the
developers
investment
model,
whether
they
want
to
be
a
long-term
owner,
or
they
maybe
want
to
really
do
a
development
deal
and
sell
very
quickly.
And
so
it's
hard
to
know.
There
haven't
been
a
tremendous
number
of
condominium
projects
in
this
cycle
in
the
Bay
Area,
because
values
haven't
been
quite
high
enough,
believe
it
or
not.
A
When
you
build
a
condo,
it's
quite
expensive,
more
so
than
an
apartment
a
but
we're
getting
there.
So
it
you
know
they're,
starting
to
look
feasible,
we're
seeing
more
of
them.
The
challenge
that
developers
have
like
I
said
earlier:
real
estate
kind
of
follows:
real
estate.
It's
a
risk
averse
and
it's
really
hard
to
know
what
the
condos
could
sell
for
here.
So
the
risk
is
kind
of
high
and
so
right
now,
because
it's
a
market
that
is
largely
dominated
by
rental
product,
we
anticipate
rental
product
being
more
likely.
That
said,
condominiums
are
a
possibility.
A
A
A
L
I
want
to
thank
you
for
providing
numbers,
we're
numbers
people
here,
a
city's
ability
to
weather
the
economic
ups
and
downs.
It
depends
on
its
economic
diversity
and
it's
risky
for
a
city
to
put
all
its
to
be
dominated
by
one
employer.
That
said,
when
you
talk
about
office,
does
an
office
that
contains
an
urgent
care,
a
dentist
doctors,
physical
therapy,
pull
the
same
amount
of
price
per
square
foot
compared
to
a
you
know.
Somebody
else
yeah.
B
So
the
I
mean
the
discussion
about
you
know:
eating
out
versus
grocery
really
comes
from
the
questions.
I
get
all
the
time
about
our
shopping.
Centers
are
changing
the
the
the
stores
down
the
street
are
changing.
It
used
to
be
a
nice
apparel
store,
a
small
department
store
with
with
ladies
apparel
in
it
it's
now
a
dialysis
center,
okay,
so
medical
in
some
cases,
there's
a
is
a
retail
function
that
it
actually
operates
as
an
anchor
and
so
you'll
see
many
shopping.
B
Centers
are
filled,
not
filled,
but
you
know
have
significant
medical
office
medical
office
requirements.
Now,
there's
you
know
a
difference
between
a
retail
medical
store
and
sort
of
the
higher
level
as
you
reach
up
to
hospital.
Their
construction
requirements
are
okay,
tremendous
when
you
get
into
to
higher
levels
of
care.
So
the
answer
to
that
is:
they're
really
good
rent
payers,
and
they
you
know
they
stay
up.
They
tend
to
stay
a
long
time,
so
they're
actually
good
tenants
for
the
landlord,
but
they
they
may
or
may
not
be
good
tenant
for
the
community.
B
M
Well,
I'll
get
to
a
question:
I
just
wanted
to
add
some
more
information.
So
next
to
Valco,
you
have
the
Hamptons
apartments
and
they
are
going
to
be
going
to
942
units.
So
that's
right
at
the
Wolfe
280
interchange
at
Main,
Street,
you've
added
120
units
which
it
just
recently
opened
up
at
19800
Wolfe
in
the
past
few
years
they
added
two
hundred
and
four
units
and
then,
if
you
look
at
the
Valco
SP
35
application,
they're,
adding
20
402
and
that
would
add
another
six
thousand
and
five
residents.
M
So
between
these
projects,
I
saw
that
you
put
six
percent
increase
in
the
population
between
2007
and
2017.
We
would
be
adding
14
percent
about
increase
in
population
just
in
this
area.
With
these
projects,
which
is
huge
and
imbalanced
across
the
city
and
on
this,
is
the
area
that
I
live
in
next.
Looking
at
the
SP
35
application,
they
dropped
the
retail
portion
from
600,000
to
400,000
and
there's
a
letter
in
there
discussing
the
economics
of
why
that
needed,
to
drop
even
further
and
of
the
400,000.
M
They
ended
up
with
a
hundred
and
twenty
thousand
square
feet
of
entertainment.
147,000,
restaurant
and
one
hundred
and
thirty
three
thousand
square
feet
of
retail,
which
would
be
shops
right
now.
The
gym
the
Bay
Club
is
70,000
square
feet.
The
AMC
is
80
thousand
square
feet
plus
you
have
an
ice
rink
and
a
bowling
alley.
M
I,
don't
see
how
you
can
add
those
things
up
and
get
under
120,000
without
significantly
decreasing
the
sizes
of
all
of
those
entertainment
features
which,
in
these
new
shopping,
centers
and
shopping
malls,
whatever
you
want
to
call
them
because
entertainment
is,
is
an
important
part
and
it
is
bringing
in
people.
I
would
not
suggest
that
you
would
want
to
decrease
your
entertainment
down
to
120,000,
and
you
also
have
a
good
portion
of
the
population.
M
A
Right
I
want
to
thank
you
for
the
comment
and
I
and
I
appreciate
you.
Reading
the
facts
into
the
record,
we're
being
recorded,
I
think
that
question
is
sort
of
outside
the
economics
and
finance
silo
here.
I
I,
don't
want
to
respond
to
that
now
we
are
doing
a
multi
disciplinary
process
to
think
about
the
site
holistically.
It
involves
economics
and
Finance
involves
transportation,
housing
policy
and
economic
development.
Priority
right,
so
I
think
it's
premature
to
try
to
answer
your
question.
A
Again,
I
think
that
the
retail
is
gonna
respond
to
the
project
as
a
whole.
You
can't
just
take
the
retail
out
and
think
of
it
as
something
totally
separate,
so
I,
you
know,
I
think
it
again.
The
reading
those
fact
I
think
those
are
very
similar
numbers
to
what
we
have.
So
you
know
those
are
good
data
points
for
us
all
to
be
considering.
But
let's,
let's
plan
together
so.
A
The
end
of
this
week,
we
have,
we
hope
to
have
alternatives
that
that
present
a
full
project
with
the
mix
of
uses
programming
and
what
our
hope
is
is
that
the
the
retail
and
the
office
and
the
residential
will
work
together
economically
from
a
traffic
perspective,
from
a
placemaking
planning
and
design
perspective,
and
so
I'm
hopeful
that
we
get
there.
So.
N
Yeah
I
wanted
to
talk
about.
Sp,
took
the
SP
35
proposal
and
also
the
initiative,
the
Valco
initiative.
Now
those
were
proposed
by
developer
as
viable
projects.
Okay,
so
I
guess.
My
question
is
the
the
analysis
that
you
do
really
should
be
vetted
against
you
know.
I
mean
the
methodologies
and
whatever
that
you're
going
to
use
should
be
vetted
against
those
two
projects.
A
That's
right,
I
think
that
we
need
to
consider
this
current
applicant
proposal.
It's
highly
relevant,
it's
it's
the
backstop,
it's
where
we'll
end
up.
If
we
don't
do
anything,
probably
that's
you
know
at
least
that's
what
they're
presenting
to
us.
So
yes,
that
you
know
when
when
that
can
and
we're
talking
internally
with
our
planning
team,
what
we
said
is
that
that
is
the
right
reference
point.
We
need
to
think
about
trade-offs
against
that.
You
know.
If
we
don't
like
the
heights,
what
can
we
give
them?
If
we
don't
think
there's
enough
retail?
A
What
can
we
give
them
to
create
value
to
offset
those
things
and
in
terms
of
a
suit
suit,
so
yeah?
Let's,
let's
keep
it
in
mind
and
in
terms
of
the
you
know,
let's
make
sure
we
get.
Every
drop
of
community
benefit
out
of
the
project
that
we
can
I.
Think
that's
a
it's
a
good
goal.
It's
a
lofty
goal.
We
want
this
to
be
the
best
project.
It
can
be
project
itself.
We
want
it
to
bring
community
amenities
for
sure.
I.
Just
think.
A
It's
important
that
we
all
acknowledge
that
the
financial
pro-forma
right
that
the
developer
runs
is
a
business
model
a
lot
of
times
we
get
into
these
community
benefit
negotiations
and
it's
described
a
calculator
I'm
going
to
turn
the
crank.
It's
going
to
tell
me
they
can
spend
another
ten
million
dollars,
but
it's
it's
not
that
precise.
If
there's
a
lot
of
upside
and
downside
potential
in
the
market
and
what
we're
doing
is
providing
again
a
business
plan.
If
you
ever
have
started
a
business,
you
know.
Sometimes
things
go
at
your
way.
A
Sometimes
they
don't
and
so
we're
shooting
for
an
expected
value,
and
we
want
to
be
reasonable
about
asking
for
community
benefits
without
going
so
far
that
the
project
never
gets
built,
because
I've
certainly
worked
for
cities
that
have
approved
projects.
That
asked
for
too
many
community
benefits
that
never
got
built.
O
Okay,
so
my
question
might
be
that
we'll
know-
or
you
can't
answer
it
right
now,
but
I
was
wondering
if
there
were
rules
of
thumb
that
we
could
perhaps
understand
from
you
that
sort
of
guide
these
kinds
of
trade-offs
community
benefits
being
more
like
money
paid
as
opposed
to
money,
profit
right.
We
do
know
that
the
developer
does
need
to
make
profit
in
the
end,
and
so
I
was
just
wondering
there
are
lots
of
expectations.
O
They've
been
enumerated
around
everything
from
a
below
market
rate,
housing
to
a
community
center
to
skating,
rink
and
variety
of
other
things.
Are
there
rules
of
thumb
you
can
share
that
might
help
in
the
long
run
to
ameliorate
any
sake
disappointments
that
might
happen.
Given
that
everybody
has
a
different
idea
of
what
the
perfect
Maul
is
gonna
be
perfect.
Excuse
me,
development
is
going
to
be
very
ok.
A
Yeah,
thank
you
and
I.
Think
I,
understand
your
question
and
and
I
think
based.
You
know,
building
on
a
few
of
the
comments
that
have
been
made.
So
what
what
drives
value
should
we
be
considering
SP,
35
I
think
you
know
this
is
in
the
realm
of
that
and
and
what
we
know
is
that
the
market
values
this
office
space
tremendously
and,
unfortunately,
that's
not
necessarily
aligned
with
the
desires
of
the
community
and
that's
the
that's.
A
A
Okay,
and-
and
it's
not
clear
if
you
actually
I'm
pretty
certain
that,
if
you
didn't
have
cross
subsidy,
that's
not
possible
the
2
SP
35
projects
that
I
know
of
in
Northern
California
both
come
with
a
significant
other
revenue
driver
that
makes
that
50
percent
affordable
possible.
Ok,
so
so
to
the
degree
we
we
want
to
bring
down
affordable
housing
a
little
bit.
You
can
get
more
of
what
you
you
know,
other
things
you
want
that
aren't
necessarily
revenue.
Drivers
and
I
also
want
to
point
out
this.
A
It's
it's
relevant
and
I
haven't
mentioned
it
yet,
but
one
of
the
real
challenges
with
this
site
is
it
cost
a
tremendous
amount
of
money
for
the
applicant
to
acquire
the
site,
and
so
so-
and
this
is
a
problem
with
malls-
and
maybe
Steve
OH-
have
more
thoughts
on
this,
but
they
they're
usually
extremely
complicated,
disparate
ownership.
Right
all
kinds
of
different
entities
have
a
different
stake
in
it:
they've
some
own
signage,
some
own
parking,
some
on
the
box,
some
on
the
common
area.
E
E
J
That's
a
huge
hole
in
what's
going
on
so
I,
don't
know
where
that
comes
in
and
the
other.
So
maybe
you
can
answer.
Where
does
that
come
in
and
how
is
it
valued
in
this
process
and
the
and
Monday
night?
There
was
a
reference
to.
Oh,
we
looked
at
the
general
plan
and
we
see
that
there
are
some
parallels
here
that
we
should
be
paying
attention
to.
There
was
even
referenced
speak
of
natural
resources
and
in
the
environment
there
was
a
reference
to
the
trees
and
how
valuable
the
trees
are
in
the
area.
J
I
can
guarantee
you
those
trees
err.
We
were
promised
the
trees
at
Main
Street,
the
trees
are
all
gone,
so
I
just
want
you
to
hear
your
own
words
and
I.
Think
it's
very
important
that
it's
understood
and
people
are
may
misinterpret
this.
But
community
benefits
is
a
buzzword,
that's
never
defined.
It
was
actually
taken
out
of
our
general
plan,
which
I
want
you
all
to
know
when
it
was
amended
deliberately
taken
out
because
of
input
from
the
city
that
community
benefits
never
really
turn
out
to
be
what
they
claim.
J
They're
gonna
be
so
a
project
could
stand
on
its
own
and
in
a
project
like
this
or
you're
gonna.
Have
this
contain
well
I
shouldn't
say
this
because
I'm
referring
to
what
Valco
want
or
Sandhill
wats,
not
necessarily
what
you
guys
are
gonna
come
to,
which
is
very
hard,
obviously
for
people
right
now.
But
if
you
come
to
a
project,
that's
anywhere
anywhere
close
50%
of
what
is
hoped
for
the
developer.
J
The
project
is
sort
of
a
city
among
itself.
Any
amenities
in
there
are
really,
in
my
opinion,
more
focused
on
whoever's,
going
to
live
and
work
there
on
those
53
acres,
not
for
the
rest
of
the
community,
so
it
is
not
a
whole
or
a
holistic
community
benefit.
And
again,
please
take
note
that
when
the
amendment
to
the
general
plan
was
being
done,
there
were
all
these
community
benefit
community.
J
J
A
A
You
know
anything
that
you
feel
is
missing
from
the
discussions.
Please
raise
them
in
the
in
the
in
the
planning
workshop
that
wiki
we're
here
today,
I
mean
I,
absolutely
take
your
point.
I
was
providing
some
examples
of
a
multi-faceted
process,
but
but
come
to
the
room
where
all
the
experts
are
all
the
consultants
rather
are
are
discussing
this
and
you
know
get
it
on
the
radar
and
that's
that's
great.
We
appreciate
that
I'll.
E
E
I
First,
first,
a
comment
related
to
what
I
said
earlier.
The
reason
we're
in
this
housing
crisis
is
that
decisions
were
made
by
market
force,
so
cities
overbilled
office,
and
now
we
have
housing
shortage.
We
are
asking
people
we
are
asking:
where
will
people
live
right
now?
Many
people
are
well
living
high-rise
with
very
little
living
space.
Many
in
if
we
are
short-sighted
and
feed
market
or
currently
today,
in
our
planning
decision
soon
we
are
going
to
be
asking:
where
will
people
shop
entertain
and
interact
with
others?
There
will
be
no
space
for
them.
I
So
then
I
have
a
question
on
retail
I
think
we
spoke
on
Monday,
where
you
confirm
that
overall
retail
sell
is
going
up.
It
grew
by
3
to
4
percent
last
year
and
he
has
been
growing
though
in
the
past
few
years,
even
though
there
were
thousands
of
stores
closing
and
the
retail
job
market
is
also
holding
strong,
which
means
there
are
nutrients
opening
new
shops
opening
every
day.
Now
my
question
is
for
Cupertino,
mixed-use
retail
hasn't
been
working
well
and
I
heard
from
other
rate
rental
retail
leasing
agencies
mixed-use
is
very
hard
to
design.
I
There
are
a
lot
of
issues
it's
very
hard
to
lease,
but
you
know
if,
if
we
want
to
build
something
that
really
attract
people,
it's
better
to
have
a
big
area
with
critical
mass
of
retail
like
a
shopping,
mall
original
shopping,
mall
that
we
have
a
mix
of
stores,
people
have
come
and
they
can
feel
job
they
could
dying.
They
can
meet
with
friends.
Do
a
lot
of
things
and
mixed-use.
So
I
want
to
know.
Why
do
you
your
view
of
mixed-use
in
Cupertino,
in
Silicon,
Valley
versus
I,.
B
The
the
question
is
is
so:
mixed-use
is
a
form.
This
is
what
I
was
referring
to.
It
is
a
form
that
has
recently
recently
evolved
in
specialized
markets
where
there
are
vertical
vertical
residential
buildings
being
being
constructed,
and
for
there
are
two
reasons
why
you
you
encounter
mixed-use
on
the
ground
floor.
One
is
that
this,
the
city's
the
municipalities
require
they
do
not
want
to
give
up
the
street
to
a
a
residential
floor
or
a
leasing
office,
a
blank
space.
They
want
to
activate
the
street,
so
they
require
retail
on
the
ground
floor.
B
There
would
be
a
shopping
area
than
there
would
be
homes,
so
you
need
to
provide
it
as
if
you're
a
large
developer,
and
you
provide
more
of
a
complete
living
experience,
including
some
amount
of
shopping
it
because
of
how
we
do
planning
in
this
state.
It
is
very
expensive
to
build
these
big,
these
residential
buildings,
and
so
the
companies
that
typically
build
those
are
real
good
at
building
apartments
that
sell
and
apartments
that
rent
and
and
they're
manageable,
they're,
not
good
at
retail
and
our
company
I've
worked
on
projects.
B
Our
company
helps
those
companies
do
better
at
their
ground-floor
retail,
by
recruiting
the
right
tenants
by
making
sure
that
the
right
amount
of
electric
power
and
circulation
utilities
are
there.
But
it's
still
not
a
the
kind
of
environment
that
a
sort
of
a
classic
retailer
would
go
into
the
floor.
Plates
are
not
big
enough.
It's
a
it's!
It's
a
bad
fit
given
how
the
how
our
building
culture
in
this
in
this
state
has
evolved
and
so
very
frequently
you'll
see
them
empty
and
you'll,
see
substandard
tenants
and
nobody's
happy
about
that.
B
A
Stevie
Steve
makes
the
comment
about
the
flea
market,
and
it
has
me
thinking
of
this
Transbay
terminal
in
San
Francisco.
That's
just
opening
up
with
a
tremendous
amount
of
retail
that
the
city
probably
doesn't
need,
and
how
are
the
retail
real
estate
entities
trying
to
do
this?
They
do
with
pop-ups
right
they're,
not
gonna,
fully,
invest
in
this
retail
at
first
they're
gonna
come
out
with
these
pop-up
stores,
which
are
very
low-cost
to
get
proof
of
concept
a
stab
get
the
place
on
the
map.
You
know
that
kind
of
thing,
and
so
it
you
know.
B
A
Market
so
sorry
I
had
recently
read
some
CBRE
research
that
suggested
that
total
retail
sales
are
not
in
decline.
They're
they're,
actually
growing,
slowly
and
I.
Don't
know
what
you
agree
with
that
yeah
and
so
them
so
so
I
think
Steve
here
agrees.
We
can.
We
can
pull
some
of
those
data,
but
but
yeah
I,
don't
think
anyone's
gonna
argue
that
that,
as
a
nation
we're
spending
less
money
on
goods.
A
B
E
M
Okay,
I
wanted
to
add
a
little
more
data,
so
you
mentioned
it
was
I
believe
about
320
million
to
buy
the
the
mall
in
2014,
even
with
a
66%
occupancy
rate.
The
mall
had
99
million
in
estimate
estimated
taxable
sales
I
would
suggest
anybody
interested
in
this.
The
San
Jose
market
overview
and
employment
lands
analysis
from
January
20th
2016.
M
In
it
they
go
over
the
urban
villages.
They
go
over
the
urban
villages
and
particularly
the
Stevens
Creek.
Your
urban
village,
which
extends
into
Cupertino
as
potential
high
potential
I
should
say
for
retail.
So
that's
right
on
our
border
and
also
the
Dan's
Avenue
Boulevard
they're.
Looking
to
add
more
retail
in
that
area
for
retail
sales
in
western
San
Jose
399
average
sales
per
square
foot,
the
mall
was
only
making
124.
But
again
that
was
at
the
66
percent,
occupancy
Valco
I
should
say:
Santana
Row
makes
400
to
600
per
square
foot.
M
Beautiful,
but
we
don't
have
one
in
the
mall
so
also
about
the
developer.
One
of
the
early
designs
for
Main
Street
to
retail
was
150,000.
There
was
going
to
be
an
Athletic
Club
of
145
thousand,
with
an
in-ground
pool
100,000
of
office
and
160
senior
residential
units
150
hotel
rooms.
It
ended
up
being
a
hundred
and
thirty
thousand
five
hundred
retail,
no
Athletic
Club,
260
thousand
square
feet
of
office
and
120
market
rate
apartments,
180
hotel
rooms.
M
So
there
is
some
reasonable
lack
of
trust,
perhaps
with
what
we're
going
to
end
up
with
and
then
I
want
to
I
guess:
throw
a
yellow
flag
on
the
phasing.
This
is
the
underground
parking.
You
mentioned
residential
office
residential,
perhaps,
and
what
that
sounds
like
to
me,
because
they're
going
to
scour
the
whole
site
and
put
at
least
two
stores
stories
of
underground
parking.
What
it
looks
like
is
that
you're.
M
That
they
would
take
the
eastern
side
and
build
that
out.
First
leaving
us
the
the
little
bit
of
retail,
that's
still
viable
on
the
the
western
portion.
So
my
concern
is
that
the
way
they've
been
designing
this,
that
they
won't
be
able
to
actually
phase
that
they'll
build
one
half
of
the
project
and
then
the
other,
and
that
will
be
left
basically
with
no
retail
for
a
good
bit
of
time.
E
A
Real
quick,
thank
you
for
the
citations,
the
references
to
some
of
those
reports
very
good
and
I.
Think.
As
far
as
I
recall,
your
numbers
are
very
much
in
line
with
the
numbers
we
have
so
good
to
read
those
out
and
make
sure
we're
all
kind
of
agreeing
on
the
same
facts.
I
think
that's
a
big
role
we
have
here
is
making
sure
we
are
working
with
common
data
and
then
real
quick
on
the
phasing
you
know
like
I
said
the
infrastructure
can
be
chunky
of
working
on
a
site
on
the
San
Francisco
waterfront.
A
That
requires
deep,
dynamic
compaction
yeah.
They
have
to
come
in
and
do
basically
half
the
site
and
to
do
there's
a
half
the
site.
So
it's
not
going
to
be
perfectly
phased,
but
in
terms
of
the
risk
associated
with
vertical
construction
that
may
be
more
manageable
in
smaller
bites.
But
thank
you
for
your
comments.
B
So
you
know
I.
Thank
you,
I.
Think
that
supports
my
point
that
that
it's
important
to
get
clear
on
how
people
are
living
today
in
in
order
to
ask
for
what
you
want
in
terms
of
being
an
addition
to
the
community.
It's
not
risk
management,
so
much
as
it's
an
increment
to
the
city
proposed
to
be
built.
How
does
it
increment
add
to
and
benefit
the
city
in
in
what
ways?