City of Dearborn Heights, MI Dearborn Heights Study Sessions, 1 May 2023

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From YouTube: 5/1/23 - Dearborn Heights Budget Study Session

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The Dearborn Heights Study Session for the Corporate Fund Budget for Fiscal Year 2023-2024 taking place Monday, May 1st 2023 in the Dearborn Heights Council Chambers and via Zoom.

A

Foreign, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the 2023-2024 corporate fund budget, we'll be going over four subjects today: General government revenue funds, Personnel salaries in the Warren Valley Golf course. We are right now in a city hall Chambers and it is 506 pm and the presentation will be by our comptroller Cindy King and her team controller of God. Thank.

B

You uh first of all, I just wanted to ask if everyone had gotten the updated budget, I had sent it to you. Were there any questions, one.

A

From last night, yes, we received it. I I can't tell you honestly: we've had a.

C

Chance Council.

A

Chair the whole thing, because there's about 70, Pages or so.

B

There were the only ones that were changed were the ones that were highlighted in yellow and those were just the ones that I had that had been requested uh previously with all of our other meetings. So just so that you know that that is the updated version. Yes,.

D

My problem is I, didn't oh I didn't print them because there was so much to print yeah and so I. Don't have them here in front of me. The.

B

There's no reason that you need to go over any of those, but that would be the updated version and I can print them for you. If you would like yeah.

D

I would preach like if they're in the mailboxes I just picked mine up right now. Well, is this the one that Marianne Marianne Mariana.

E

C

Councilman, um the director stated, these are updated with things that we requested, and one thing I requested, probably close to six weeks ago, was a split up of the salary instead of lump suming them and and it's it's still.

B

Excuse me Mr wanso, doesn't number three say: Personnel salaries on the list right there.

C

B

Okay, so we will be getting to that.

C

How come we didn't get a copy of it, though I.

B

Have a PR I have a PowerPoint presentation, for you would.

C

You like me to go through that copies of it. We don't want to see a.

A

Presentation I mean you could go ahead and do the presentation, but I think it's uh appropriate to make sure that every council member gets a copy there. Okay and primarily because I I do know that that's what the councilman had requested so.

B

Oh no problem and.

F

I know respectfully from the beginning of the year, we the first thing that we asked when we I'm not the beginning of the year, but when we first started this was we requested uh the salaries and.

B

I do want you to know that that is confidential information, so I did give it to you on an overview as far as a range, but to give you specifics, I did get a PowerPoint presentation to show you specifics and the reason that you haven't gotten. It is because, when you say hourly, rate of an individual is not their salary.

B

Okay, there's a lot of things that go into that hourly rate and that's why I did a PowerPoint presentation that I would like you to see so that you can visualize and actually see how much employees are actually making, as opposed to what their hourly rate actually is.

A

So, to be fair, let's wait until we see that first and then go from there. Okay, um I do have a question for you controller on the revised budget, uh one of the things that you had in the email. You said that these were uh based on the requests that were made by the directors.

A

But, as you are aware, uh there was a lot of obvious, which is standard, obviously procedure, but there was a lot of different requests that were made by the different directors in the different departments and as those requests were made, and they were, uh there was a conversation made about them per meeting by we've had I think about eight ten.

G

A

Whatever meetings uh we came to and I don't use the words to an agreement because we didn't exactly vote on it, but let's use a hypothetical, let's say: uh building director uh put in a request for oh a car yeah, you could use a hypothetical and then after we had uh debate and negotiations and talks over it, we decided amongst all of us that maybe it's not the best time to get a car. Why don't we get uh whatever right for right now? Which stuff do you have in there in the revised budget?

A

The original thing that he had to ask.

B

A

Or the final thing.

B

Do you tentatively agreed on.

G

B

Things that you attentively agreed on right.

G

A

G

Would hurt that.

B

You would yes that you had heard and that you wanted to see in the um in the uh budget. Okay,.

A

Thank you that helps a lot. Thank you.

G

A

Do you have another question? No, no any other council members have uh questions for the Comptroller before she begins.

E

A

Now, as we go so we'll go ahead and start with the general government controller and that's on page eight.

B

A

You or no uh page eight of the initial one.

H

That was in this folder right.

A

Here, yep right there.

B

So this is just your general fund. General government um breakdown, so your Social Security, uh obviously the first one would be the hospital insurance. No, we didn't put anything in there because it's all being broken down by departments.

B

So the very first thing that we have in here is insurance buyouts, and that is over um for employees who already have insurance through their spouse. We do give them a buyout, so that is where we do put that under the general government, instead of putting it by departments so that we did put that placeholder of a hundred thousand dollars. Can you explain that.

A

If you don't mind controller, when you say, there's a buyout, so if a wife has insurance through her insurance plan where she works and her husband works here for our city, how what do you mean by that buyout.

B

Well then we pay them. We pay the employee for not taking our insurance. What.

A

Do we Okay, so is it on an individual basis or is it across the board.

B

It's across the board: okay,.

A

Do you know that my offhand.

F

Yeah, and, and so do we just, is it a one-time fee.

B

Or does this year yeah per year it's annually so.

F

It's annually, yes,.

B

F

While we pay them to not use our insurance, absolutely if they've got insurance.

D

From somebody else wow it's the same thing throughout.

I

Industry, everybody.

B

So we have a placeholder there for the uh a hundred thousand dollars. uh Last year we had 102, so we kind of went down a little bit, even though the projected shows 70 again, that's a placeholder. You don't know until the end of the year when you actually pay them out.

B

uh Next, we have Hospital Django.

B

Jengo, what is Django General.

F

B

It's just Hospital.

G

J

G

E, so this is a retirement.

B

C

B

Believe that is, for the retired retirees, as well as the general government employees for their insurance.

K

Departments, so why are we putting 1.6 million dollars there.

B

I would really like to put a put that one under question, because we are putting the insurance under every department, so I'm kind of curious on why we have 1.6 million dollars for medical insurance under the general government when we are breaking it down by department. So I'm thinking that this is the um retirees but I do want to get back on that one. If I could.

F

I think comparing it to last year's last.

B

Year, it is it's, it's it's.

F

Compatible so it does sound to.

B

Me like it would be the.

K

Retirees yeah, it is because.

B

They're not going to fall under this specific departments, because they're retired.

F

K

F

I think the name was just different, but if you compare it to last year, it's similar.

B

Okay, so life insurance for ACT 345, again, that is for your retirees and it looks like we did up that amount to 7 500 from 27.25, and that's because we have more retirees this year.

D

Okay, that's just from police and fire. Yes,.

B

Act, 3 45, because then you do have uh act, 345, government, retiree again at 58.75, but last year we budgeted nine thousand dollars.

B

So it looks like we're. Putting these two into two separate columns is what it looks like. So we broke it down into two separate General government pension. Again we're pretty close. Last year was 9 000. This year we broke it down to 5800.

K

B

Okay and then your 345 pension, three million dollars a pension.

K

K

L

Is a 345 insurance.

B

There's nothing in there because last year it looked like the activity was five point: 5.1 million.

D

And this year they.

A

D

On there the 345 pension, it looks at 5 million one twenty one that.

E

B

Last year,.

E

That was last year's. There's nothing. There's.

B

Nothing in this one, so it it's broken down under 345 insurance, which is three three million. Eighty eight thousand.

D

Well, how did it go down.

B

Because I believe that we are putting the pension into each individual Department this year, so remember how we took it out of the fringe benefits and we put it into the department as far as pension. So we broke the two each department separate. So now we've got pension and The Fringe benefit on last year. We did not have the pension separate.

B

And this I would think is the 3 million 88. 000 again is for your retirees, because General government is where we're going to put retirees we're not going to put anybody who's actually working in the department anywhere else.

L

Wait a minute hang on a second.

B

D

The insurances for the for the people that are currently working because 345 is for retirement and attention right.

B

D

Life insurance, Act, 345.

B

Is seven thousand dollars for life insurance so.

D

That's completely.

B

This is medical insurance, okay, that we offer all of our retirees.

B

And then the 345 ex expenditures, again that has to do with your uh retirees.

B

Your 345 opeb pre-fund, that has to do with your retiree pension.

D

What's so, what's the difference between that and the 345 pension I mean we've got a pre-fund.

H

B

There's a lot that.

D

Goes into the function of a million 88, then down below. We have another 411 000 for opeb pre-fund.

B

Let me pull it up for you.

D

Tonight, I don't understand why we got two lines there right.

D

D

That would that's, because we are down like 176 million dollars in our OPEC.

H

D

That was, but that was a complete thing for the entire city. But how much were we just for the 345? We shouldn't have been that far down on that, because we were already collecting through through uh at 3 45.

B

Yes, this comes from the actuary report. It says pre-funding 1.5 million split between the two pension systems as a percentage of their net OPEC liability for the previous year. Well,.

D

I I know: in the past, we've had the actuary come here and I'm, going to request that the actuary does come here, because I don't understand on how this is. We've got two lines for pre-fund.

A

I've already started to make arrangements for that uh through the clerk, and we said when.

F

Did we say May.

A

D

Okay, because that's a big big question fund for me because got a million 88 and another 411 000.

B

um So you put 1.5 yeah and it was about the same last year.

D

Because, to be honest with you, the liability should not have been that high for react 345, because we've always paid it or the other one. We never paid. That's why we got to be so far behind.

D

For my recollection of other, you know eight years ago.

B

Well, we can have the actuary explain that one.

D

But yeah: well, that's what we'll do we'll continue and.

B

G

D

G

Explain that okay.

B

All right so going on, then we have.

B

H

B

Does say right here it says pre-funding split as a percentage of the net opeb liability of 72.57 percent for the police and fire, so it does state right there.

D

You said 20 57. I got 27.

B

D

D

In your footnote, your.

B

D

Okay, yeah the first one.

B

D

Pre-Fund right.

B

But then there's another one and the next one is 27.43 for the general okay.

D

Okay, I could see the general police and fire.

B

Next is your workers comp uh we placehold three hundred thousand dollars for that.

A

And no one is curious as to why it's just 300, when last year's amended budget was at 375.

B

And it looks like it's just based on current costs, Okay, so um we're just taking this information based on current costs, especially since we've only spent 134 thousand dollars and we're projecting two hundred and one thousand. So it looks like we could have over budget last year. For that.

B

uh Unemployment, we did budget seventeen thousand dollars for that and that's just based on 2022 activity and uh your supplies. Based on the average of four years. We put it at 115, 000.

B

Well, each department does get their own budget for supplies, so I would have to say that this is probably for over and above if anyone like really needs like extra supplies that are maybe for everybody. Instead of just their specific Department.

A

What was the animal Pro.

B

A

You don't have it, you don't have in this year's budget. But what exactly is that it's? Why it's skipped out.

A

B

So let's see next, we have.

K

Covered supplies.

B

Okay, so next would be the missile wait. A minute. Oh miscellaneous expenses I got twenty one thousand dollars in there as a placeholder again just based on the past, four-year average sanitation is 3.6 and that's priority waste, which is approximately 220 a month and cwcsa, which is approximately 800 80 000 a month.

K

And let's see here.

B

Which we do have in footnotes there as well and then going to Payless contracted Services 120 000, that is for our Paylocity bill, which is our payroll and that's runs about seven thousand dollars a month and then other Professional Services. We we placehold three thousand dollars and again that's kind of low based on uh previous years. But again we have been putting contracted services in the each department. So I think that we kind of just cut that back just for specifics, like Paylocity and anything that may come up. That would be for the whole entity.

B

uh Telephones, the 168 000 I think that we really should be putting that under it, which I believe we did when.

D

We say telephones, what are we talking about.

B

Telephones, we're talking about your actual phones on your desk, those and your cell phones.

F

So, are you talking they're, probably talking about like.

D

So you're so the billing for the telephone people making phone call. We don't get one generic bill for that. We.

B

Do we get one bill from it's called Windstream for all of our telephones that we have on our desk and then there's also a separate bill for our our cell phones, I. Think I'm, not sure if that's through I think.

D

It's oh it's through ATT! So what kind of deal are we getting on our phones that that's quite High? It.

B

Is extremely high and Rit person is working on that right now uh he's trying to get things a little bit more streamlined and to get us a better price for that.

D

I hope you can get one better through Xfinity and it might work better yeah.

C

Council chair go ahead. Council we went over the uh our Professional Services skipped over that one. What are we still paying for that? Why are we so paying wasn't that a one-time cost.

B

What are you looking at? What's the.

C

um Looking at uh GL number 82200.

E

There's nothing in there for the next budget.

B

I don't see an.

E

C

E

On page, eight.

C

On page, eight I don't have to be 22.

E

23 activity that.

C

That 45 000. What was that for that.

E

Was activities yeah.

C

That was 20 22 23 activities.

B

Okay, you're talking pep pre-fund and it.

C

Says I'm talking about the our Professional Services online professional, zero, zero.

C

Above telephone, we.

E

Pass it's above the telephone guy, there's.

C

Nothing in the budget.

F

Oh professional, oh I, see it well, it just has more Professional Services to control his Department. No.

D

I see telephones.

A

Can you point out where you're talking about our I don't see it.

C

It's right here, it's right above the telephone. It.

B

Says moved Professional Services to comptroller's Department.

A

B

Line is arpa, I think you're talking about the contracted services.

C

Our Professional Services, no.

A

No not on mine, yeah,.

M

D

C

Is the Osmos update.

D

Okay, at the updated one I'm looking at what she's doing.

B

I'm, looking at the one too so I'd have to pull that one up, I'm, not sure.

D

Updated one no.

B

No, because that's that one we have as a.

C

Well, I, don't have an old one: I have an updated one. Okay,.

B

But is there anything in the new budget for this year for that no.

F

B

So I don't know what is your question? It.

C

Was the 45 000 for from.

B

C

Did we make payments on that I thought we paid them all in one lump.

B

Sum if it was last year, you're, you're, okay, then I'd have to look that up.

C

What's this 22 23 could have been this year.

E

Okay, it says through 6.

D

30., you guys are looking at the updated one that they gave us now.

E

We have spent some already well never mind.

C

B

Be more than happy to look it up for you.

A

B

A

Just to to partially I answer your question councilman, they will continue to work with us on the actual spending. So it's not like you know they did a survey and they're done they're going to continue to Monitor and be involved with the process. Is that correct yeah as.

D

A

As I know, all the way through.

D

A

Papers that they have to turn into the feds, etc, etc. It's it's pretty complex by the way.

C

Well, I hope, so we paid it it's going to be over, like a million and a half dollars, where'd.

E

K

Professional Services.

C

We paid in 1.3 million 1.4 million so far, I.

F

Think it was like I.

C

B

Know we've only paid 45 693.

C

That's all we pay them totally. Yeah.

B

C

I mean what was this I mean.

J

Contract is Task specific, so every task that the council approves that's what we pay for so far, we've only paid for the surveys and for the My Hub program with the treasury Department. Those are the two projects that we have given them um again. There are costs with the administrative tasks such as the reports and um some of the research for the procurement for the projects that we will move forward with if we choose to use their services, but again we have the authority to decide which tasks we give to the arpa management company. Well,.

C

We're under contract with them.

J

Based on the tasks that we give them.

A

Okay, councilman sorry.

J

Just to clarify the million dollars in the original bid comes from the eligibility that you're allowed to use 10 of your arpa funds and administrative fees. So that's your cap. It does not mean we're going to get even near to using that much money in administrative fees, but.

A

Okay, one second uh chief of staff.

B

D

Received a updated budget, but why are we going back to the old where this this doesn't show up this? Should we be going with the updated one? The.

B

Updated budget that you have is only the things that have been requested in yellow. Nothing has changed well.

D

Because I don't see the arpa thing in the old one.

B

The arpa is not on the old, it's not going to be.

D

A

H

Either because it's irrelevant it's it's last year we.

B

Didn't we didn't request that we're going to be using.

A

Anything based on uh expenses during.

D

That I just want a clarification on this.

A

G

D

I mean I got two things, I could look at and uh one is missing off the old uh old one. You know one's on the new one, so the.

A

Only thing that is councilman, it's money that was already okay and I, know that yeah. So it's okay, I understand and any money. That's spent is just a reference plan.

D

And I understand it, but I just wanted to know what we were trying to do here.

G

A

See everybody all riled up there, councilman yeah, all right, let's go ahead and uh I did have a question controller go ahead, yeah on on the mmrma I, don't know if you've gone to that one! Yet Insurance um we went from nothing to nine hundred thousand and I know: we've had that insurance for many many years. So why do we have nothing in previous years in 21, 22, 22, 23 or projected then? Suddenly we have a 900 000.

B

uh You do have something from.

A

Here sorry, we jumped up I said we jumped up to 900.

B

000. well last year was one million sixty seven thousand.

A

That was 21 22.

B

21 22 was 1 million, sixty seven thousand.

A

But projected for last year was 848.

B

That was the activity through 3 30., the amended budget was 850 000., and this year we asked for 900 000, based on inflation, I mean we budgeted 850 last year and now we're budgeting 900 000.

D

B

And I mean if we don't use it, it just comes back. Okay here comes Chief of Staff to explain that one again, sorry.

J

um So our mmri insurance typically is around a million dollars. It gets split between three departments, so it gets split between the water department, the highway department and general fund um I. Believe um so that's why we sometimes budget for what we assume the total cost is going to be, but it ends up being always a little bit less because it gets split with the other different funds.

J

um We don't have the numbers for this year because we're currently in negotiations with them for the renewals, so the real numbers are going to come when we present this the contract to you. Why.

A

Through the water and Highway, why are they involved.

J

Because they have their own funds on their own levies, so they pay for their own insurance for their employees. Okay,.

D

D

J

Always got some back so you'll see that in the revenues later as well.

B

So next would be the street lighting and that's approximately 115 000 a month.

F

That actually went down. Wasn't it.

B

D

The lights are helping.

B

D

Know that they initially.

B

It did include the LED light replacement, so it did go down.

C

What is I'm sorry Council chair, yes, go ahead. What is that electric bill street.

B

F

B

F

What it is in the repair for all the LED lights.

K

F

And it's still cheaper, so I know that when the lady spoke from DT I think at the time it was.

I

F

I

Close to 30 between 30 to 40, 000, yeah.

H

C

That that number is what we paid to have the everything replaced and a monthly bill or an electricity or is Electric electrical bill included in that that one one point.

B

C

I think it is okay with the whole year electrical bills included in that.

B

This is only for your street lighting, not.

C

B

Electric bills.

C

For years for Street lighting and parking lot lights, correct; okay, all right! Thank you! You're.

B

Welcome city-owned property, 75 000, that's just based on um historical numbers,.

A

Define that when you say see their own property.

B

Those are the properties that we own, we own homes in the city we own um Lots in the city and those things you know, cost money. We have to cut the lawn. We have to.

H

B

Lawn here comes the chief she'll. Give you another overview, the.

J

Biggest portion of it is for us to buy our first ride of refusal homes every time we approve those purchases. As you know, it's about between five thousand and ten thousand dollars per home that we typically purchase.

H

Right, yes, okay,.

B

Dues membership subscriptions, we budgeted 50 000, that's just uh same as we budgeted last year. We did not budget anything for travel and education because we put that all into the each department uh sidewalk weed repair. We did just budget 150 000, because that's what we had budgeted last year. It does look like we haven't used that much this year. But again we just put a placeholder at that much just in case, because things don't really ramp up until spring.

B

When you know when it comes to.

D

I just seen a bunch of city sidewalks being.

B

D

At a rapid rate right.

B

Now right so that will probably go up, we'll probably use it all. Yeah.

D

Yeah I believe we will yeah.

D

They've been out Villanova's, a very good company.

F

They can't hear you on Zoom is your microphone on.

C

Council chair yes, now we're on the sidewalk. um There was things being posted on social media that the price per slab of sidewalk is going to be increased. Is that true than what they originally everything.

F

I think we went.

A

Off I mean 375 off top of my head.

F

A

F

A

It up and they they are honoring. um If you had been cited From the Path they are, they are honoring. The previous amount.

F

And I want you to know councilman, uh my parents just did their slab I think last year or two years ago, and it was more expensive two years ago on my parents to get a private contractor. Chainsaw 375, in my opinion, is very cheap.

D

I just had my neighbor had nurse replaced and they honored it from three years ago. That's great and it was like 200 and some dollars, plus uh the one-time fee, of the the permit 75 permit fee other, and it was very inexpensive. Okay, also.

I

Chair all right so I mean you guys voted on it several months.

G

I

A

So let's go ahead and get back comptroller, okay,.

B

Subject: uh telephone copier debt that is just based on the amortization schedule that we owe 29 000 for this year.

B

Sanitation debt principle: that again, is just our debt based on the amortization schedule. It would be 205 this year, uh fire station bonds again 185 000, that's based on the amortization schedule.

D

It's kind of bad.

B

Yeah interest expense, we're expecting about 42 703, even though last year we did um a budget for 29 000. But again this is based on the amortization schedule. What our interest will be for next year.

B

And that's it for General government.

A

Okay, any other questions from council members on General government specifically, okay, see none. Next up is revenue funds. That's on page one page, one yep.

A

I I don't know um controller, maybe you could go because some of these are pretty standard, maybe go through an abbreviation and we'll take questions while you're going through that. Okay.

B

um You know a lot of it is just increased by five percent. Just based on your current property taxes, uh we can't Levy any more than five percent, so.

K

We did increase property taxes, oh I'm.

A

Sorry, no, we also have. Obviously our Pro funds is additional revenues this year. Yes,.

B

Okay, uh no, we don't have arpa funds, no.

A

But the monies that came in we're gonna have uh almost 24 million total.

B

That's in our fund balance and that's not considered Revenue. That's just sitting in your fund balance that we've already received. Okay.

F

And we received 12 million last year, so you would only see an additional 12 this year right.

B

Right, no, but that won't be for next year. It's already here, I.

D

F

D

See we got act 345 as a revenue of 10 million five. Forty.

B

D

B

Revenue, that is your taxes.

D

That's correct all right, so that's showing it coming in and.

B

Then right and then you see it going out right, sanitation, the same thing: you got 3.3 million eighty thousand dollars uh Public Safety and all all these are an increase by five percent.

B

um Your taxes collected for your tax admin fee that one is uh one percent of taxes that are collected so that went from 837 to 879., okay,.

A

Sure so that five percent increase when somebody purchases a home to maximum it gets uncapped and the maximum taxes that that their taxes can go up is five. Sorry, when somebody owns a home and is living in the home, the maximum it can go up. Is the five percent correct? Well, so he buys a homemade gets uncapped. So why are we using the five percent fee right here.

B

Because I, that's all I have right now. That's all I had gotten from the assessor's office was the five percent cap.

A

So what I'm saying is this would be inaccurate because people living in their homes right so well. Let's use myself. For example, um you know I've been in my house since 2020, and it can only go up five percent per year, maximum.

B

A

Based on proposal Aid, but if I sold my home to uh sorry, no go ahead: okay, but if I sold my home today, it gets uncapped and it's going to be quite a bit more of revenue from my house to the city quite a bit more than five percent, because right now it's assessed at a lesser amount because of that five percent maximum cap.

A

So what I'm saying is because of the sales in the area that figure saying it's going to be five percent. More is arguably inaccurate. It's going to be more than that yeah, but how do they gonna.

D

A

What sells well that's.

B

That's the thing we don't know what's going to sell and how much the but.

A

It could also be used if I could be sold directed one. It could also be used to make the budget look good, because then you're going to have a lot of um excess Revenue at the end well at least potentially next year, because you got more money coming in as people come.

B

In well, that's great, so if we have more but we budgeted it just at five percent, so if we get 20 in because home sold, that's just a bonus on our end, but we only budgeted for five percent. Okay.

J

And also it typically balances itself out because you don't get all of your taxes paid. So a lot of them don't come in until the year two years, three years later, um so it typically balances itself out with what's extra and who didn't pay. We.

F

Have that number we have the number that shows how much you say. The total amount is a hundred thousand or a million dollars of taxes that is unpaid.

J

The treasurer would have a better number for that, but you can ask her for it. She should have those numbers by now, because we already finished collecting taxes for the current year. Okay, thank you.

A

Any other questions.

D

On that, well, not that, but the next one property transfer fines, I see at 2122 is 330 dollars. Now we're going to forty thousand.

B

Well, we collected 44 000 this year, so we're just expecting just to be conservative. It's a new account this year and it was budget conservatively compared to 2023..

B

So it doesn't look like we had that property fines transfer in the past.

G

Okay, thank you.

B

The rest one percent increase for your tax admin fee your prior year adjustment property taxes is 250 000, that's conservatively, based on the prior five-year average uh you're equal. Your next. Your 3400 is just equal to the 2023 budget, because that's what we had in 2223, which was your trailer tax.

B

Interest on your delinquent taxes, based on the average excluding 2020, we did come down to 75 000, where last year we were expecting ninety seven thousand, so we're trying not to um over. You know over exert our Revenue too much interest on delinquent taxes. uh Builder's license that number came from the building department. He felt that nine thousand dollars was a fair amount that we could collect on revenue for builder's license.

B

Ten thousand for building just Department miscellaneous that again came from the building department. He felt that that was a fair amount, because last year we had budgeted forty five thousand, so I'm not really sure why that came down, but that did come from the Department.

C

Sure, yes, what is that uh in that building department, um the miscellaneous it was building.

B

Department, miscellaneous.

C

I can tell you what's in there activity through 6 30 23 was Zero 126 000, that's budgeted now for ten thousand, but I mean is that from partially from all last years we spent I'm.

B

Going to look it up for you right now on.

D

Activity 2020 223 is at 254 thousand seven eighty. Well, that's the new budget yeah! That's that's the that's that one is but I'm talking about the one we're looking at and she's. Looking at it's 254 to 780., that's quite a bit of difference. There.

B

Okay, it looks like we have building department receipts that are coming in and they all come in right around seven thousand dollars a quarter or a monthly and um they're just building department receipts that are coming in.

K

N

K

Idea where I can find like the paperwork for those or.

B

K

Because this is just receipts, see how it comes in.

K

B

Okay, all I'm showing is a building department receipt, so this is actually just coming from the building department and it doesn't have any addresses or anything. It just gives me an amount.

A

You know what just say: we don't hold you up controller, maybe if you could find out for us and just email it to all the council. Members.

B

I do show an attachment here that does show a building inspection.

K

uh Oh my gosh, this is small. Okay,.

B

All right, it does show building registration, uh closing letter, fire suppression, suppression, Refrigeration, permit sign, permit rental property registration, so it looks like what's happening is when the checks come in, they put it right into a miscellaneous account. Then they pull it out and they put it into these specific accounts. So your revenue account of closing letters. Co fees, which is the 458 account that's where it gets booked and then it starts getting booked little by little and each each account. So your electrical permits your electrical registrations.

B

Your here heating permits, that's where it's all getting booked.

A

But what does it it doesn't make sense what doesn't make sense activity through? uh Basically, the end of March is 254 000. Then budget is 10.

B

Because, yes, because they are, this again- is a miscellaneous account where they're actually putting it and then they pull it out of there and put it where it belongs. So I can't say why they're only expecting ten thousand, unless what I'm thinking is that this is a placeholder, then they move it out of there and they actually put it in the right departments where it goes because I'm looking at uh it would go to like your electrical permit, account your business license.

B

Your building, exp inspection account your fire department cost recovery, that's where they're all going to go! They're all going to come out of here and go into these extra accounts. This is just a placeholder yeah.

D

But we got all of that stuff. There electrical permits building permits, but.

B

It gets pulled out of this 456 account and goes into I mean it gets pulled out of your miscellaneous account and goes into your building department account and your business licenses. You're Building Inspections.

B

Because, right here.

A

Honestly, it doesn't make sense because then, if you look at the amended budget for 2223, it's at forty five thousand, like all all the numbers are quite a bit higher. But yet the end number is ten thousand.

J

Can I clarify yeah, um so the reason why there's a miscellaneous account is because when you're, a business owner or you're developing a house, you come and you apply for a permit and that permit has multiple categories that you have to pay for, and it all gets added up into one invoice. But then accounting has to go in and break it apart by each box that you mark that you needed.

J

um So that's why it's just a little bit behind on getting this reclassified into the real categories where they belong.

D

Yeah because once your house starts getting billed, maybe the foundation gets inspected and they that gets done and they go back out and inspect a framing and then they go inspect the plumbing. But all the restaurants are still being budgeted for yeah, but then it the the activity, starts getting up when they start doing that.

D

Okay, but that's only ten thousand dollars. That's not that's money! That's coming in right!.

B

D

That's what they're saying it's only ten thousand coming in it's very small! It's very conservative of.

J

Unclassified permits, which would be something unusual, so.

D

It's not like money going out. This is money coming in correct.

B

D

So uh I can I I understand that now yes,.

B

Because that's your miscellaneous account, this is a placeholder. Then it gets moved out of their into your licenses. Your inspections, your fire department, cost recoveries. It starts putting it into those buckets so.

D

It's uh it the more building that we do more remodeling, we do in the city. That's the amount of money, that's going to be coming in little at a time, and then, after that, it goes into the each individual.

B

D

If it's got to be an electrical inspector or a mechanical inspector so forth so far so forth,.

H

D

Understand that Council.

C

Chair, yes, councilman um councilman musk that doesn't kind of doesn't make sense. When you get your building. Permit you pay for everything up front and it doesn't you don't just dish it out. As you go, each inspection you get it's all paid up in front. Believe me, I know: I've been I've, been watch very carefully in the last couple of months by every Department in the city of Dearborn Heights. For some reason, I, don't know why, but you don't just pay it.

C

When you call for electrical inspection, you don't pay the electrical inspection fee, you pay it all at once. You don't give it out as you go, but.

D

Is that on new billing, or just on remodel.

C

I, imagine it's everything you pay the whole fee up front. You don't pay them, because people.

D

Already, have you have a CFO already for your house, but when you're building a house, there's no CFO goals and.

C

Stages well, I have to get a CFO when.

D

I'm done well, I I, understand that, but you already have a CO to live in there when you're building a house you can't live into just when.

A

You're building a home, there's an industry, yes and it's usually quite high. It's.

B

Yeah, it's not.

A

Like a thousand or 500 bucks, it's quite High.

N

And I can tell you what the process is sure at least a couple years ago um that the client would go to the building department. Building department would write up absolutely everything they need. The client would come over and pay the um the treasurer's office. It would be rung up under one code and it would go into Cindy clarify if I'm wrong. It would go into that I'm thinking that building miscellaneous account.

B

That's correct and.

N

Then the next day, the treasures or the building department breaks it down by that form up there.

G

N

Then I believe so Treasures offices bringing it in on one code, 4500.

G

N

Gl number, then, um then it goes over to the Comptroller treasurer's office, verifies that that number is the right. According to the building department report, every single item and then the Comptroller does their thing and they break it up.

B

N

For them so a million dollars or whatever, and then the Comptroller breaks.

D

It out into the electrical into the building same way as what I was saying in the electrical.

N

D

The plumbing gets.

N

There, yes, but because I'm sure that the treasurer's office can't plug all those numbers.

D

N

D

Why the client is waiting.

N

B

Somebody somebody comes in Pays, 11 871 for their building permit, like Mr Wenzel had said, and that's going to go into the miscellaneous account. That's that amount right there, but then we get in the Comptroller Department. Like Messina said we get this breakdown that shows okay, building registration, 35, closing letter fees, 225 and so on and so forth, and that amount comes out of your miscellaneous account and puts into the right account where it needs to be.

F

C

Makes sense makes sense it's a ten thousand dollars for though it's.

B

Just a placeholder that we will probably use that at the end of the year, you may have ten thousand dollars sitting in that miscellaneous account that didn't get moved over to these specific accounts.

B

D

See it's confusing, but but it's not money, we're spending! It's money.

B

It's money that we're receiving oh I've.

C

A

Understand that I had a question for you and I'm, not sure if we're done with that, but but on the four-year request um we have, on their uh item number.

C

D

You're going way down, yeah can.

C

We wait till we get.

D

B

Okay, so 30 for business licenses, four hundred thousand for Building Inspections, and these are where the money is coming out of the miscellaneous account and being put into your building inspection accounts. This is where this is going. Okay, um I think it's pretty standard, I, don't see anything that's out of the ordinary that is any different from last year, maybe the rental property. We did up it by five thousand dollars based on historical activity, uh your rental property inspection. We did go to 450 000 that was based on per the building Department's request.

B

They do feel that we could get an extra fifty thousand in Revenue this year, uh you're building permits or right at um a million dollars per the building department request electrical permits is at 75.

C

That's a chair, I I want to back up just a little bit the building um building inspections does that include the rental inspections.

B

We have rental property. Inspections is separate. Okay, rental property inspections were showing 450 000. That's.

A

Every three years for rental properties- that's.

C

Okay, now, when did we start doing that program again.

A

uh About two or three years back, we brought it.

C

Back up two years ago, oh we brought it back two years ago, yeah.

A

So if you remember, we were doing it for a long time. Then there was a lawsuit. Well, there was no lawsuit against us, but there was potential for a lawsuit that had happened throughout the state from a couple different entities that we decided between us and our Corporation attorney. Instead of putting ourselves in lawsuit, we just put it on a on hold for a little bit until we.

C

See what comes over okay, I didn't realize it was back in effect for over two years, yeah.

A

Roughly about two three years, yeah.

F

And it's a good thing: it holds Runners accountable, yeah.

C

Okay yeah. Thank you for the whole landlord. Thank you, I'm, sorry, landlords. Okay, thank you. Okay,.

B

Electrical permits about 75 000 electrical or elect registration and exam, we put it at 6, 000 and that is per based on the building Department's request. They felt that 6000 was a fair uh Revenue amount.

G

B

uh 95 000 for your building or your heating permits, 2400 for your plumbing or Heating and Refrigeration.

B

Ninety five thousand yeah.

D

B

Well, we had uh hit 80 000, we had requested 80 000 last year and we're at 87 598 through February twenty.

D

Is that a lot of bad furnaces.

K

B

uh 55 000 for plumbing permits we did ask for 50 or the budget last year was 50. and building department had felt that 55 was a fair analogy.

B

Five thousand for plumbing registrations demolition permits, 4500 animal license, is at 21 000, based on the four-year average.

K

Okay, we didn't put anything for there just.

B

Just disruption permits fifty thousand dollars.

B

uh Fourteen thousand for birth and death certificates.

C

Council chair: yes! What? What is it just out of curiosity? What is disruption permit.

B

Okay, I will look that up and let you.

K

Know we don't know zero zero, zero. Four, eight six.

C

It could be there's more money, it could be.

K

B

K

Permit is all I see in here.

C

Well, just maybe look it up. I'll see.

D

I'm gonna put a question mark by there and.

C

It's something like late night, festivals or something no seriously I mean. Is it something yeah.

B

I I, don't have a clarification in the journal in the journal. Ledger I just showed disruption permits. I would have to.

K

C

We need more of them.

K

Okay, so come on. Okay,.

B

So, going on to local community stabilization share appropriation at 325 000 that equals the amount received in 2022, though it will probably be higher, includes the lcsa revenue and Metro act. Revenue.

B

And then um State shared Revenue did go up this year, January consensus projections. We are at 8.1, 8.1 million.

C

A

Chair you skipped over, we skipped over the one. I was asking about the foia requests for five thousand, but it was five thousand, but it was always zero. So I'm.

B

Sure, oh okay activity was in 2022, conclude to estimate about five thousand dollars.

D

A

Have nothing about nothing in previous years now.

B

This is liquor, license the five thousand dollars no.

D

It says it's right below birth and death certificates.

B

489, oh, that we put zero in.

D

Zero four: eight nine point: zero, zero, zero foil request; five thousand.

E

D

I would think that's going to be a lot higher than that.

J

Sorry that was me retract for your revenues before uh so I put five thousand dollars just to see how many we get, but really one sefoya is expensive, most people back out of those four years. So typically our foyas are around 100, maybe 300 each, um but most people when you charge them they back out not a year a foil but.

D

I'm just saying five thousand for the whole year again.

J

If it's higher than that, we'll amend the revenues at that time, we've never attracted before, which is why I just made the recommendation. Let's start with five thousand and see if we get it.

D

J

If you divide five thousand by a hundred, that's fifty.

D

Foyers, which is normal now, is we're getting revenues that are conservative, and then we end up with more money coming in, and then we can't have a hard time saying that well, I need I I'd like to have a position for this, and it's only going to cost us 20 000 more, but we could. We could end up paying for that with just the overages of yeah.

J

So again, this is a new charge that we're starting to implement in the city. Most of the time, foia is wearing charge for in the past that they are so extensive nowadays that we are charging for them as a loud.

D

J

We didn't used to have the levels of foyers that we're getting now, which is why we never had our revenue for four years and now we're creating a revenue for foia so that we can see if it's going up or down.

D

And have a better average city council didn't know how much money we were getting for foil requests.

J

D

My God we could have been there could have been tens of thousands of dollars that we never knew about it and don't know where the money went. So how often will we get an update of how much money we're getting in on these.

B

D

B

Get every month, you'll get a budget to actual, and that shows you where we are with our Revenue as well as our expenses. Okay,.

D

B

D

Only have to really look at that those columns very closely instead of just getting them and putting it aside.

I

And if the numbers change, we usually do on the budget. Amendment.

B

I

If the budget I mean, if, if the items are above or lower, then we submit a budget.

D

Now: okay, by saying that you're not going to come to us and say uh we need to take money from this miscellaneous account and put it in yes, the.

I

Electricity just to automatically do it since the revenue, no we've been doing that.

B

We move it from the miscellaneous Revenue count and do post it to the other accounts.

D

That it belongs to when we, when we come to city, council and Craig I'm. Sorry, I'm ignorant on this and I I shouldn't be, but.

K

D

Okay, a lot of times we do budget agreements, budget amendments, we're thinking about. We don't have enough money, we're going to put it into that account. So if somebody in on that budget amendment should say this is a a revenue that we're taking and putting it call it a revenue, because we we.

B

Don't usually come and do any budget amendments on revenue.

D

And I I just asked that you said that we do but well so are we going to be told when we you know.

B

Well, if you're over budget on Revenue you're going to see it on your actual Revenue to actuals I mean Budget day actual when I send you that uh requests.

D

They have to physically look at that ourselves. Well,.

B

I I will gladly tell you when we're over on Revenue, but that's a good thing. Well,.

D

Yeah yeah I'm saying when you send us that statement.

B

D

We have to actually look for.

D

Account to put into the other account right.

B

Right I usually do not request budget amendments for Revenue. That's.

D

B

But it's uh it sits in that account, it doesn't move. It just goes over what we had budgeted for.

D

And the point that I'm making we have to physically look at that ourselves. Yes,.

B

Okay, that I can bring that to your attention.

D

Yes, that's all.

B

D

Mean if you could highlight that when you, when you send them, uh would be great to.

B

Know because you'll see on the percentage, column, it'll say 120 130 anything over a hundred. You know that we're over budget in that revenue account, but overall on the very bottom, we could be low in one uh account and that's gonna compensate and balance itself.

D

Out, okay, that's all I needed to.

K

B

uh Let's see, did you want me to go over? Oh liquor license we're at five thousand dollars.

B

huh We did budget five thousand dollars back in twenty one. Twenty two there was only activity for 22 to conclude to estimate at five thousand dollars because uh looks like yeah. We don't have any activity in there right now, so there there again right. There is a very good analogy. We don't. We have not captured any revenue for liquor license for 22.23, yet so we're at zero.

B

But if you go and you look at the end of the end of where we're at on the bottom line, we could be at 68 of our budget to actual, but this particular line item. This department has not gotten any revenue for the year for liquor license because.

F

A lot of them are either an escrow or that.

B

Is correct so we budgeted only 5 000 this year, because last year we budgeted 23 000 and we haven't gotten anything yeah.

L

F

B

Things we do try to go. Conservative.

F

It's a good thing.

B

uh Eighty thousand dollars is based on the pension board estimate. That's the contribution from act. 345.

K

uh Let's see here.

K

A

uh Cooler when you have cable Comcast um how's that any different, because I have I know we have the peg fees also on there, but how's that any different from the peg fees.

B

Cable Comcast.

F

We're getting paid on that those.

J

Three are your PEC funds, so you'll see the last the cable companies listed, that is, your PEC funds.

A

J

A

Have Peg fees, in addition to those there's.

D

A

All the Patriots we've got Peg fees at 120, 000 on on the bottom of page, one on the right hand, side, and then we have the three different.

D

A

B

That's based on cash receipts.

A

So, but what I'm asking.

B

A

Difference between the peg fees and the different cable fees from the three different uh companies. Yes, sorry.

J

um So those three companies create what your peg fees are, which is only a percentage of what those revenues are so you'll.

E

See that four companies.

D

J

D

Percentage is what the peg fees.

J

D

You take all of that and you add them all up and get three percent of. It comes out to a hundred and twenty thousand dollars.

A

Okay, but we're counting it okay, but then we're double counting it potentially, because you have the the kids.

D

We are getting 420 from from from cable uh Comcast right.

A

And we're getting 28 plus so.

D

Then you you take the percentage of all of that correct and that's what gets you.

A

For Peg that's 120 yeah, but then we're double counting it, because if you take the 420 plus the 128 plus the 84, let's just use a hypothetical I, don't know 550 give or take.

D

So now take the three percent of.

A

That but you've already counted it at.

D

The other part well yeah, I, see but they're just showing.

A

They're, just showing you're double counting.

D

It but you're getting you're showing you the peg fees is coming out of that.

J

It's already divided for you, so the 120 would have originally.

I

A

J

It out and put it in two Peg fees instead of the three or main cable.

A

The city has to do that. Yeah.

J

A

No I know but I I got to get an understanding of this. So let's use the amount of 420 000 plus.

F

A

20 420 000 plus represents cable Comcast is that at 100 132.

F

A

Because if three percent of that goes towards the peg fees, then it shouldn't be 420. It should be 97 of the 420.

B

A

The three percent.

D

We're at two percent I'm not sure it's your total.

A

Whatever the percentage is, but I'm.

B

Just saying right: yes, it is already it's.

A

Already already calculated, yes that clarifies it. Thank you.

B

So that would be your cable and your uh Peg fees, and then the next would be your rescue runs. What.

C

A

One quick Circle.

F

Okay, go ahead. Ask the question: what's good question: do we know the percentages because at 632 000, when you combine all of them at three percent and it's only giving you twenty one thousand dollars or eighteen thousand dollars times three percent, it's eighteen thousand, nine hundred and sixty dollars? No, it's more.

D

Than that I I may be wrong with the percentage, but it's a percentage of what what the cable companies paid has to go into. Peg I've got the breakdown at home, because I studied this extensively can.

F

You give me, can you get back with us tonight? I will try.

D

To get it as soon as possible, okay.

I

D

Mean I really studied this extensively with the peg fees because they were supposed to be restricted. Funds and I went back to 2000 and two I believe when it first started.

D

M

C

Councilman, just using Comcast as an example, it's 420 000 shows it as Revenue I mean what they pay. uh How can we get revenue from cable? What.

D

Is that 20 percent okay, but the revenue is what that we, they pay us, so they can come into the city.

C

So they're paying us we're we're still paying our bill to them. Yes, people are they're paying so they're giving the city 420 000 I.

D

Have a franchise Phoenix.

C

And then we're taking 20 of that and putting it into the peg fund correct. What are we doing with the other 80 percent? It just.

H

Goes to general ledger general fund.

C

Check that out, Ray see if.

F

That see what that percentage is, do we have it so 20 I did the math 20.

B

It could be, it could be, I would.

D

B

D

That's what it looks.

B

Like to me, yes,.

D

When I, what I'm, looking at I, think a two or three percent is what they charge on your bill. If you look at your internet bill or your cable bill, it'll be on there, two percent or three percent, and this is what you pay toward the peg fees. Okay, everybody pays the money into everybody that has cable pays into that. Okay and that's why it's a restricted fund, okay and.

N

D

Learned that the hard way when I you know I, never even bothered to know what Peg meant until something hit the floor. Okay,.

B

Rescue runs is your ambulance fees, they fluctuate approximately 125 000 a month, so we've got a 1.5 million in that account for Revenue Planning Commission per the building request that sixty five hundred dollars.

D

And that's what we get back from the Planning Commission.

B

D

And where does that I mean? How do we get that back because we're paying them to be there when.

A

People fill out applications, but applications are 500 and, as I recall, to the rest of my recollection, uh an applicant that wants to go in front of the Planning Commission will pay 500, but when they pay 500 that 500 does not come back to them, no matter what the outcome is, but the costs involved in running a meeting per actual transaction is from what I've been told. I believe was by Rick or by adeeb, is higher than the actual 500, because they have to have an attorney here. They have to have a secretary here.

A

They have to pay their Planning Commission members, and then you have uh aladeep and they have some overtime, so they may not have that might be just what's left over for them.

B

It it's just the revenue that comes in it's not going to be the expenses.

K

B

Sure that our expenses.

D

Cost more to have a meeting then I'm.

A

I'm just telling you the reason I know of this is at one point: I questioned at one point: I questioned when there's a Planning Commission meeting, why? Why can't they have one? Why do I have to wait for another extra month and they said the amount of expenses involved for just one item or maybe two items just not worth it. So sometimes they bump people off well,.

D

Yeah well I understand but I'm saying: how can we have a revenue when it costs more to have a meeting than it does so.

J

All of your cash has to be accounted for in your revenues. That doesn't mean it's a profit. It's just a revenue, it means cash came into the city, so some of this would wash up again. It's not a profit. It's just money received.

D

I, don't see how we can get any money out of it at all, but obviously we're getting. We got four thousand and twenty one twenty two, nothing to be mad about. No, no, no I'm, not mad I'm, just trying to make sense of it. Yeah Revenue.

J

D

Correct and I know that.

B

Okay: okay, uh moving down, we've got a weed cut income of a hundred and sixty thousand dollars that was Prior four-year average.

B

Sidewalk income about 15 000 and that is equal to the 2023, amended budget and no activity in the last three years for cap. So we didn't put anything there.

K

And let's see where else are we.

B

The cap reimbursement it's 63.5, even though we are over this year. We actually got a hundred and fourteen thousand.

B

We did want to just keep that at the same from 2020 to 23, and we just kept it at 63.5.

B

Miscellaneous fire six hundred dollars, afg Grant reimbursement- we do have a 1.9 million dollars per fire budget and again that will be used up in the fire expense, so that will be Awash because it's a grant a miscellaneous police that fluctuates. We set the equal to the 2023 amended budget, just at twenty thousand wait.

A

What was the public assistance covered? Is that our problem? What exactly is that? Because you have budgeted here, 2.8 million item number 635 period, zero, zero, two.

K

B

J

B

That you were talking about yeah.

J

So that is one time: uh Grant reimbursement that we're getting for the two years of covet that the state gave us for salaries of our First Responders, primarily um so that Grant has been awarded. It came to the council about three months ago. Both of them have been approved with the invoices that we sent them. So the money is expected to come in next year and.

B

That was for expenses for two years ago, during covet yeah.

D

Strictly for covet when they came to work through coven.

J

So it's for the two years of coven, it's four salaries, correct! Yes,.

F

J

Separate from arpa funds.

F

Can do that I know all their small businesses were doing it for uh payroll for employees as well correct to help out.

J

Yeah, it's called the public assistance grant that they gave us during copen.

F

Yet they've been in business for at least a year or two in order to qualify.

C

Council chair, yes, go ahead, let's see you know it's uh almost three million dollars how's that money going to be spent or has it already been paid out to people or what are we going to do with that money?.

B

This is just a reimbursement we had already spent it they'd already gotten it now we're getting reimbursed for it from two years ago.

F

C

Years ago we do, what did we dish out so.

F

You still paid payroll, and this is just.

C

Budgeted anyway, well.

A

Okay, we paid out payroll, but there was less revenues coming in so they make up, they paid us for it, so it was like less I mean every Revenue. Almost every Revenue was.

F

Going to charge time right, I'm still paying people out of our revenue and then Tom comes over here who's in charge, and you say: hey, you know what you guys did a good job I'm going to give you back your money. That's that's! Well,.

C

I know how it works, but I'm just saying I mean what what revenues did we lack it during covid? That was so permits.

A

Tickets were down, everything was down.

B

A

But yet we were still paying salaries.

C

Okay, so this was just to read. This is just money coming right back to us for some reason, we gave them receipts that said that we needed 2.8 million dollars to recoup our losses. That's.

D

What they just gave us, that's what they figured out to give us yeah.

C

All right, thank you. Yeah.

J

In this particular case, it's not necessarily to recoup your losses. It was just an assistance for us to maintain um our staff and again, it was given to all the businesses in pretty much the entire country. I believe, and um everyone that had a few employees and had been in business for a year could get this funding back from the state. So it was just their way of maintaining the economy running and um keeping the cities employed.

C

B

And then we have miscellaneous police at twenty thousand. That just fluctuates so we set the 20 000 based on last year's budget.

B

And then a hundred thousand dollars for police salaries that we will be reimbursed and that's just an approximate same as uh 2022 budget. What.

A

Is an access, Police, salary.

B

We get reimbursed for uh certain police I, believe it's like for the cross guards, and there are some individuals who are working at the schools that.

A

We get reimbursed resource officers yeah, who are we reimbursed by the.

B

Schools: okay,.

B

And then there is twenty thousand dollars, that is, for public private sector that is based on prior of your four-year average.

F

God I think uh Chief of Staff has something to say on.

J

That sorry, we have two grants that help with our resource officers. uh One is for Access and that's more for drug related work that we do at the police department and later down the road you're going to see the school reimbursement for resource officers. So two separate sources of funding that help cover.

G

J

Of our police officers and the work that they do so, as you know, access is a non-profit, that's very engaged, with multiple initiatives in our particular cases: drug related on education in that area, from our Police Department. So.

A

For the sake of time, because since if you've as you've noticed, a lot of these are pretty much the same as.

G

A

Years, if you don't mind controller, can you go over just the ones that have a drastic difference between previous budgets and current budgets.

B

Sure, let's look at obviously a grant reimbursement, we're not getting anything this year, because that was miscellaneous grants, so we're not expecting anything this year. So we didn't budget any revenue for that.

K

A

Direct rest look pretty much the.

B

Same pretty standard, yeah, I I, don't see anything. That's really fluctuated majorly. The.

A

The one thing I did see is this: is on the next page finishing it up. You had projected activity of revenues for the last fiscal year, so this would be from the end of June last year to the end of June. This year uh was at 63 million point two, but then the projected revenues for next year is 59 million 685..

A

Do you know why there's a drop I had a no for myself here to ask you this question: why there's a drop of three and a half million in revenues, I'm.

B

Looking at page three and I see that the amended budget was 56 million and we're expecting 59.

A

Million so again, so there was the one that was given to us. He said with the changes this one that you're looking at because I'm looking at the booklet.

B

I'm, looking at the booklet as well, I'm.

A

Sorry I should have said projected activity, I'm, sorry projected activity, I apologize, rejected activity at 63., but then recommended budget at 59.

B

Yeah, well, you know, the projected is sometimes can get fluctuating and it can go up and down and we didn't want to over State our Revenue. If we're not going to be getting it, so we prefer to just stay status quo with a lot of the things we stayed from last.

A

Year but then, based on the amended budget for 22 23 is 56 million. Some.

G

A

Received revenues of 63 million and some that's the difference of around seven. We.

B

Haven't we haven't received it? That's projected. We've only received 43 43 million through March 30th, so we're assuming, but.

A

Even if you may be getting 63. assuming we're talking about only another, uh we got April May and June.

G

H

A

90 days, yes, there's a difference right but yeah. You.

L

Had an answer go.

J

Ahead, the only major change that I can see with regards to revenues is the arpa funds. So that's 12 million dollars right there in just one year.

A

Okay but then we said, but then we said, the arpa funds are not going to be counted towards revenues.

J

So last year and the current year that you're in until July they were revenues because they came in in two installments in the past two.

F

Years, they're.

J

Not going to come in next year, so that's an automatic drop. That's.

A

What you're saying okay! Thank you.

E

I quickly, totaled the the first one we had and the current one we.

G

Have now and it's a difference of 190.

E

671 dollars, okay over.

A

Okay, thank you.

B

There's a difference in the general fund from the.

A

E

Seen some councilman or no.

F

E

F

Good. Thank you. Personal sellers.

A

All right next up is: um unless does anybody else, have any additional questions on the revenue funds? First of all, I could. Thank you. Comptroller uh next up is Personnel set Personnel salaries.

B

Then this is the one you've been waiting for yeah.

D

We don't have a page, no.

B

I've got a PowerPoint presentation that I wanted to share with you, and this is the reason that I have been.

B

B

Okay, this is going to show you the employee pay comparisons, because what you actually see on an hourly rate does not actually give you the rate that these individuals are actually making and I thought. This might be a beneficial for all of you to see Council.

C

A

C

You know we weren't asking for hourly rates risk for salary employees, uh pay, salary, employees, not the hourly, pay employees. Salaried.

B

Employees I had given you in the first PowerPoint presentation, not.

A

All of them, so um yeah I think I'm gonna be a little bit more direct than you councilman. What I believe he's been asking for is specific, the name or.

F

Position, salaries.

A

Well, okay, but that's gonna ultimate, obviously connect it to a name. So so, let's say yeah.

B

You have one I.T director, you have one comptroller, you have one HR Director, so it's going to be giving you names anyway,.

F

I've never heard of asking for an a position in the city: that's illegal for asking for it I've. Never my life heard of that we've always received.

B

It and I don't think that anybody has ever looked through it.

F

It's Corporation Council here to explain to us how that's illegal I.

B

Didn't say it was illegal and.

F

C

B

Said it's confidential? How.

C

Can it be confidential? It's publicly.

B

Because it's not it's not public record, it's not public record I.

D

Mean you don't know what each individual person makes right.

B

Right, that's right: I can give you a salary range.

H

B

To give you specifics,.

D

It wouldn't be none of your business to know what I made my last year at Ford motor.

C

F

A private institution- this is your: this is a government. This is public information, guys I.

B

Can go on right now. Information is for elected officials.

F

Legislative director elected.

B

D

It is public records. This.

F

Is still a government.

A

Not elected officials, so just for clarification, it may make it for your book. Yes,.

B

A

I, don't know if that's necessarily automatically.

D

My business, what George makes absolutely.

F

D

Charge of the budget over here but I, don't want to know what she makes and with her overtime, and it's really none of my business. No.

C

Just a salary, she's she's, an.

D

Hour, we already know what she makes generally.

C

You earlier salary, okay,.

D

We already know what she means. I know.

C

The thing is the thing that myself and a couple other Cosmos I know is it's a certain Department shows a salary and show them all lumped together, and we know there's two or three people in there. We don't know how much we're paying the director or the the people underneath that.

F

You tell me the only way that I'm going to get this information is if I foia.

B

No I'm not telling you that I'm, stating that the state of Michigan is not a transparent state, and that means that only elected officials is where you need to where the where their salary is public, you can get it and I can give it to you.

F

A

A decision I think she's saying it. She can give it to you. Yes,.

B

A

She just can't make.

B

It I can't I I would prefer not to make it public and.

A

I'm gonna tell you something: I.

B

Think that is but.

A

If I give it here that.

B

It is public, but.

A

I I respect that councilman I, honestly I'm telling my honest opinion.

A

So if I worked as an employee in the treasurer's office, right and I make thirty thousand dollars a year, I could see you wanting to see it and that's fine, but I honestly, don't think it's fair to the employees to have that number out that publicly yeah, yes, anyone any John Doe can coming in for you that I get that, but prior to foia I, think it's a little too much personal, in my opinion, not legally but too much personal information to be out there in the Street Council.

C

A

C

Away I said: hey we need to, can we get? Can we get the breakdown of these salaries in each department? Well, I'm. Sorry,.

A

So now wait I want to add one more thing on that, but yeah again and I remember from our Corporation attorney telling us this once and I. Don't know how legalese can work on this, but once we get it as council members as a body here it is Def, then it has to go on potentially the minutes if we're voting on during the council meeting and it does become potentially public records. So we may have to look into legalese.

G

A

Chair, okay, Council will be doing finished first and then councilman uh mosque and then Jesus name.

F

There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving me a budget and telling me this is the amount for everything, but I cannot break it down for you, nothing is illegal about that. Nothing is and- and you may feel like to you- you don't want to know that, but when you're working at a government entity like this, this is public information, one-on-one and.

H

So the issues none of us here in public.

F

And if anybody here does not know the opinion of that, then get an opinion from an attorney, because I will tell you. I asked a question and it's absolutely not illegal and there's nothing wrong with knowing how much people in the city get paid.

A

She would get that out to you personally and about you all all of us council members, but what she's saying is she's not saying it's illegal she's, saying it's properly confidential gray, to put it out there, our.

F

Former our our when we did our budget our first year here it was the officer one officer, two officer, three uh fire, one Fire Two Fire, three comptroller comptroller assistant. No, it didn't say, control the king. This was the position. This is what we're budgeting for. This is how much they make there's nothing wrong with that guys and I.

B

D

B

Understand why you can't have a range? What is it that you have to know the exact amount for.

F

Because the range is an estimate, the.

B

Range is not an estimate; it just tells you that they're making this between this much and this much well.

F

That's not specifying, though,.

B

What what is what is.

F

Going to change a thousand is ten thousand dollars. Okay,.

B

So, what's going to change in your.

C

B

C

Think we might think a certain person is getting paid too much. How would we know that's contractual.

D

For the hourly person.

C

No so I'm not talking about hourly I'm.

D

Just talking about salaries.

C

Salaries, that's all I'm talking about that's ever but.

D

If you look at them, salary elect.

D

I agree what what councilman Bay Doon is saying, but we have uh tier one tier two tier three and they give you that amount of how much they make per hour.

D

Okay, so maybe what we can get is we've got four tier ones in this department right for tier two in this department and four tier five or well I'm, not using numbers in general, and that comes out to two hundred and ten thousand dollars right that you're budgeting for, but as far as who makes too much money. We already know what the chief of staff makes. That's in your budget, where.

C

D

Yeah because you look at the mayor's budget yeah so.

C

D

At the Mayors, but we know what the mayor, because he's an elected official, says salary-elect.

F

Okay, let's not use the chief of staff, an example. Let us use DPW, for example, with all the employees in there. You have everything lump sum into one, not the deputy, not the.

D

Directors, yes, the directors, no, they tell you what the directors are. Where show me, oh, they don't tell us, are.

F

You did you do that before so I. Understand that that's what I've asked for, unless you want to ask the former comptroller, he gave it to us, not a big deal.

J

So if I may just share my opinion on what I've experienced since I've worked in this city, um I was personally attacked the last time that my salary got released out there. So were many of the directors.

F

Like myself, because.

J

The ones that um get attacked are typically the directors. um Now again, you don't have to identify who is getting how much money? The fact that all of you know how much money I make is not okay, I mean you can know, but the public shouldn't.

J

um Also, there are management rights that the mayor and HR should have the right to. If you have an employee who is over performing, they should be allowed to either increase or decrease. That number based on the range of the category of the job that they're in it's.

F

Not without the people of the council so.

J

I would recommend that you approve the salary range as it is going to be presented by the controller and then allow for the mayor and the HR Director to administer the city based on what that salary range is for each type of classified position. I.

F

Know I want you to know something here, guys I I, respect that Chief of Staff, but I want you to know that this right here this this book is a recommendation of of the mayor respectfully in his administration, and we follow precedent. But our main job here is to follow the recommendation of that or to adjust that so, ultimately, this budget comes to the city council. That is what city council's job. Is we look at this and we say: okay, the mayor and the administration, DPW and building department.

F

Everybody needs one two and three, and we respectfully agree with that. But what we are not going to be told to do is this is what you guys are going to do.

A

Advocate here, uh Mo yeah, so James Brown gets paid, I, don't know thirty, six thousand dollars that's used to use in any Department. We can't say to them: okay! Well, we don't like 36 000. We want that to go down to 32.

F

I'm, not I'm, not telling you I would never tell.

A

Somebody, let's take it to 40 either. No, so so, I I'm just trying to clarify.

F

I'm not trying to argue, but you could actually say, let's take it to 40.

F

A

There would be more that would be more Humane, I know, but I'm just trying to clarify not so much to debate with you. So if somebody's at 36 right now, whether we're going to raise them to 40 or bring them down to 32 I assume, that's not the case here so where's that 36 you do if, if we, if they give us the 36 plus another guy 50 another lady, 40, etc, etc, one's.

F

Been working for a year one's been working for six years, there could be there's different stipulations as to.

A

Why do you want to ask you both councilman? Are you guys looking for names and salary.

F

No, no, absolutely not so.

C

Just position we don't pay by the person yeah like I, don't pay by the name. We pay by the position.

A

Because sometimes it does end up being by name, because when.

M

They hire somebody.

A

If they hire Dave Abdallah, let's use Dave abdall as an example, so they heard Dave Abdallah in the Comptroller's office to be the deputy comptroller I have practically zero experience, so I don't know why they hired me in that field, but if they did they're, probably not going to pay me too high. But what if I come in with I've, got a master's degree and a doctor's degree, etc, etc, and they hire me. The controllers. They're gonna, have to pay me a little bit more than 40 or 42.

F

000. I'd like to play Devil's Advocate to you councilman. Now, let's just say, we use the different scenario and I hire realtor a and Realtor Dave Abdullah, an average realtor takes three percent of their commission has gave Abdullah any better than the average. Yes I'm sure he is, but I'm still going to hire him at three percent. Okay,.

A

D

Don't want to go to the question. Let me go back a few years too, because and I'm going to say how we set precedent.

G

D

Councilman Bay Doon is saying we did pay by the position because at one point and I'm just going to have to say it, we didn't like the work that the former Chief of Staff did. So we did not give her a raise.

F

D

There- and it did not I, don't believe you were there at the time. I.

F

Was watching it yeah and.

D

What what ended up happening is two people got switched because we gave the position of of emergency manager our raise. Then the former mayor then switched the two people around so that other person got the raise, correct and so I agree with what you're saying. So we need to know what the Comptroller is making here, because it used to tell us uh and at one time was 55 000, uh because they signed paperwork for that and then uh I believe we knew what uh battery was making.

D

We knew what Gonzo was making uh and I've just used. It I.

B

Understand you no I totally understand. I, just really feel very strongly that when you have an executive leadership, your executive leadership should have a range anywhere from 95 to 110, which is about where we're at.

D

Okay, so right now, I, don't know what your five percent raise is going to take. If you get a five percent rate.

B

Well, the five percent raise increases included in the total of the salaries for the on.

D

The budget I told I totally understand so I'm just going to take an arbitrary okay.

B

So five percent- all right I.

D

Would say: you're making eighty thousand dollars a year and I'm gonna add five percent, but I don't know what that money really is I, don't know if it's 80, if it's 77.

B

D

23 or I don't know what.

B

Is the end game here? What is it that you want to know if, if someone's worth 80 000 with the five percent or.

F

Are they worth 95 title is set to us to a number you.

B

F

Being paid right now, averagely between 90 to 100, 000. I'm, just okay, I'm, not if I was a director I, wouldn't be being paid anywhere between 90 to 100, I'd be paid a certain amount. Ninety thousand dollars and I would be, and that would be my check every single month now ultimately granted if you were to get a raise which I I'm forgiving everybody raises, I've always been paying well I've. Had that conversation with the mayor, you want good employees, you pay good employees. Absolutely you don't get good employees well, you're, not going to pay.

F

If you're not gonna pay somebody good you're not going to get anybody good! That's just that's just how the world works. I totally get that, but there should never be the question that, but we're not going to tell you what we're going to pay our good employees and I mean this across the entire board, the good police officers uh or the police officers. The fire department, the DPW Department, uh the building department, everything this even inside the clerk's office, every single Department there's nothing wrong with that.

F

If you know how much the mayor is getting, there's no difference than or how much the council member is getting, there's no difference with knowing how much somebody like the directors are being paid. So.

A

I'm gonna ask uh Devil's Advocate question: you have those numbers in front of you, okay and and by the way my argument is in terms of not so much Administration. My argument is I I feel it's a little too personal. To put it out. There.

F

L

My personal Viewpoint.

A

That's my personal Viewpoint. We always did it. Okay, but well I, don't know if we, no, we didn't I. Definitely I'll tell you for a fact: we didn't do it with names. Yeah, no.

F

I never said names well,.

A

I know, but usually it's pretty clear when.

L

You're saying it's clear, the chief of staff- everybody don't know how much it is right.

A

Right but that's at the.

B

A

Everybody all the employees now you're going to the other levels, and now you get into I, don't want to use. You know you may have an embarrassing amount, somebody's getting paid. You may think you know it's just it's a little too personal I feel that's why I've got a problem, but she never had the problem. So I've got a question for you, but I'm telling you where I've had a problem? No, no. We never had all the uh yeah. We did. No, we saved the top tier, that's the mainly what we used to get the.

F

Total I want to share with you the budget from three years ago that was done by I've, seen it.

A

Where they would say, Okay clerical one clerical, two et cetera Etc, that one is nice.

D

A

That one, that one's still private but when we go into names, that's where I definitely have who said okay but I just got a question for you.

D

A

Know but let's see I I like bluntness, okay, what is your ultimate yours order, the councilman's ultimate goal and I'm just trying to tell you sell me on this? That's all what is your ultimate goal? Are you concerned about? Let's call it the way. It is funny business.

C

Yeah no no console chair; okay, um just take for I'll, just read uh two departments and it's months of comptroller and one's the mayor's office just because they're examples uh mayor's office salaries, 116 000.. What's that mean how many people is that one person, two people? Okay, that's.

G

C

You go to the you go to the Comptroller. Your salaries are 381 000.. That tells you nothing correct. That tells me not do we have you know, and now you know the way. This thing things work around here now there might be someone working there that I've never seen before that they decide to hire.

C

You know because people are hired without counsel approval all the time. How do we know that you know say say: there's two hundred thousand dollars in salaries and just say the the director, the director of carpets, you know and they got 300 000 or he's getting paid 150 and he's got six people making twenty thousand. You know how do we know how many employees there are. You know and.

F

How much they're getting made, how much you're getting paid I just want to say something to the councilman, but it wouldn't be under your discretion that it's not fair, that this person is making 60 in this person, not the person. The position I understand that you want to ask I'm. My question: is the position and there's nothing wrong? Hey Mary I will tell you something if somebody ever attacked you for being paid well, I swear to God I'd, be the first one to defend you and I.

F

Believe you I, believe you but I want you to know I, I I'm sure. Let me tell you the mayor pulled me to the side and said Mo I want to give my employees raises, he can attest to it. What did I tell you I said you want good. Absolutely. You must pay good I agree with you. If somebody did attack, you I'll be the first one to defend you. I'm.

B

Completely test on social media, what? What is that it was attacked on social media.

F

Yeah and I didn't see that but I tell you something: that's why I try to keep this I have a red line for that I have a complete red line for that, but that doesn't mean that we're going to say we're not going to tell anybody what look you get you do a lot of work, believe it or not. The chief. Is you come troll putting together this budget? This isn't easy. No, having the controller to answer your questions. I can ask her any questions. You can give me a answer to it.

F

That's I know that when I walk in and ask Mary on a question, whatever question I ask she's going to give it to me. So does she deserve to be paid? Well? Absolutely she does I'll be the first one to tell you that.

B

So I just want to know, as Mr Abdallah had said, what is the end game because you have put these people in place to run your organization. We are here to run your organization I, don't know why this is off. Oh there we go so if I say I need a competent employee and I need to pay them. Eighty thousand dollars a year because I know what I need you don't know. What I need I need. Someone who's got accounting skills, I know what it takes to get.

F

That respectfully, but that's the purpose of the legislation over here, the check and balance.

B

I understand that but but.

F

What you're saying.

B

Is that I have to ask you if I can hire a person at eighty thousand dollars absolutely or are you going to give me a budget of 330, 000 or whatever? It is to say I'm going to give you that, because I know that you need that to run your department, but.

F

We don't have good employees, he's giving us a number and saying well we're not going to tell you what it fulfills just approve. This number well.

B

I can tell you what it fulfills I can give you the exact amount.

F

Look I, I have I, have an obligation, I'd, say apples and oranges to to to be having these. These conversations.

B

I understand that and I'm not trying to take away your obligation, I'm just trying to explain to you that there are certain things that I feel should be confidential and when it's, when it comes to a department and I, say that we need three hundred thirty thousand dollars or whatever it is on. And we can. You are saying to cover the salaries for that department. That's either good or bad I'm.

F

Sure the king I'm, just gonna, have to tell you I respectfully disagree with you.

B

And that's: okay,.

F

B

F

Ultimately, it would be, please, can you provide us with the right information, okay,.

B

Thank you can I go through this real, quick yeah.

F

And just give you an.

H

B

Because this will give you a better idea of when I do give you good salaried information on how many hours that each individual actually works. Okay, so here we're looking at hours, are paid at 36 hours. Now this is just your union employees or tpoam employees. Okay and that's 52 weeks would be about a 1872 hours and I'm just giving you a ballpark of 18 an hour that gives them thirty three thousand six hundred ninety six dollars for the year.

B

But if you look at it, they're actually only working 32 hours a week, but we're paying them for 36 hours, because.

F

Of the one hour lunch break, they.

B

Get paid for that correct, okay, so now they're they're getting paid for one thousand six hundred and sixty four hours a year. All right! You take that and plus their time off, they've got about 296 hours of time off, so they're, actually only working 1 368 hours, you put that into adjusted hourly rate from 18 goes up to 24.63 I just wanted to clarify that. Okay, thank.

I

B

K

K

B

You Max, okay uh at your highest level, for a TPO, am employee, the same amount of hours that they're working but they're at 23 dollars an hour and by the time, because they get so much more excess time off. They're going to be at about 34.50 an hour.

B

Now, administrative management pay, your directors are right: around 75, your executive or at 95 in your executive Administration, is about at 110.. I can give you titles. If that's what you would prefer.

F

And please just not averages: how much is that an hour? Okay,.

B

I'm showing you that right now, so our annual that we would be working is 2080 hours a week, I mean a year, I'm, sorry and that there is no overtime for exempt employees because we're salaried so the actual hours that a director would work is 48 hours a week. Your executive directors are working approximately 50 hours a week and your executive Administration is working about 52 hours a week. What's.

A

The difference between a director and executive director I.

B

Just based it by that on um salary, so a lot of your directors are at 75.

C

B

C

Directors, Council chair, okay,.

F

C

You come up with these hours per week,.

B

Oh, that's what we.

C

Work now where'd, you come up with them at yeah.

B

I work at Mariana works it the.

C

Mayor works every week. Oh absolutely.

B

A

Thank you, I'm just curious I can attest stuff called Mariana.

B

24 7. he's there I call Marty on the weekend. How many times have I called you over the weekend. He.

D

Was working at 10 pm, Robert Conrad on Sunday.

B

I I sent I sent out emails last night. It's a continuous thing. Our work like I, said earlier. We we live to work, I.

D

Call Chief Hart on the.

C

Weekend absolutely.

B

C

Know councilman musket, but you know what, when you call him you're working too hard, you're working also.

D

Well, absolutely I've said that a lot we make about.

H

D

Cents an hour Council people are.

A

Whether the least paid period.

C

Yeah by far and.

B

We can change that too. Mr wenzo deal.

D

C

Believe me I'm, working on it. Okay,.

B

So your hourly rate right now, I'm going to show you for the TPO am lowest level is at 24.63. Your directors are at thirty dollars and five cents. Your highest TPO am is at 34.50 an hour, and your executive director is at 36.54 in your Administration executive Administration is at about 40.68 Council.

D

Chair one moment before and here's the pro and it's a problem for you and I, we don't know how many lowest level we have in TPO am, and we don't know each one of the harmony we have there and that's fluctuating all.

B

D

As people gain seniority, so it's going to be hard to say that this budget year we have 25 lowest paid people because that's going to change right.

G

D

Is going to change, except for the directors right, but.

F

You can still budget you. Can you can stop it saying hey. This is what we're paying this. You know Title One title two title: 3 24., we've done this in the past and.

B

I can I I, as I said, I can get I'm.

F

Gonna email, you I just wanted to show I'm going to email. You an old.

B

J

B

I've already seen it.

J

Okay and I may you've already received that every time you approve a Union contract. Yes,.

F

I understand too I know, but but I'd like to see it on the budget as well.

B

So the gap between hourly rate hourly rates of management positions and lower level Administration Employees is not very large. uh Your senior level tpom employs on average, will make more per hour compared to your new directors and your tplam employees are required to mainly complete tasks that do not require extensive training and education, where your management complete tasks that require high level thinking and decision making. So I just wanted to clarify that when you ask for hourly rates, it's not an hourly rate based on a 40-hour week or.

A

A 32 hours, I'm gonna, tell you honestly, controller I I'm, not crazy about the last two statements. I think it's inappropriate.

D

Okay, I I think it brought because you know and I was a skilled Tradesman and we you know we did some people say we did nothing, and sometimes we didn't do anything right.

G

D

The assembly line worker is working real, real hard and constantly working and I would say. Well you get to pay for what you know and not what you do and sometimes that's an insult to the guy on the line and.

B

I, certainly don't want to make this an insult to anybody, because I do.

F

I, don't think that was your intention honestly. No, it wasn't kind of see where they're coming, but.

B

I know you're you're, pure heart, no, it's not and and I'm just trying to make a make a clarification that there is a difference between the amount of work that is being.

D

Done this always gets paid.

G

D

Anywhere and it's worse in government than it is in the uh private sector,.

F

Council chair, yes, respectfully I would let you know right now if I gave and- and you guys are working extremely hard I'm not taking that away, but I'd like to believe right now that if I could tell almost every employee right now that works for the city that we're going to give you seventy five thousand dollars a year, plus health insurance, every single one of them would work the same amount of hours, if not more and I truly believe.

F

Right now, if I walked in and said to every single employee of the city, you're going to get paid, 75, 75, 000 or 80 000 or 90 000 a year, every single person would work just as hard. In my personal opinion,.

A

F

Again, I could be wrong, but this is how I feel this is my opinion. Let's take, let's stick with the budget.

A

Let's stick with the budget: all right is there anything else on personnel that we have to go over Beyond the debate, if you want to call it it's.

F

An awesome personnel, how long you think we have on a golf course.

A

Because how much questions you guys have.

D

What what golf course we don't have to pay? No.

B

You don't have a page on the golf course. I was just going to kind of go over whatever it.

A

Was any questions that you have a page on it? Yes, it is Page 21., okay, good.

G

A

H

Even read my own handwriting.

A

Okay, 21 or 28.

D

Well, I'm at 28 right now and it is Golf Course yep. Thank you.

F

I'm sorry guys I do have to excuse myself and I have another prior obligations, I'm. So sorry, no problem.

B

It was a pleasure debating with you I.

F

Love you I swear to God. Now what I want to know I want it for the record. You are so respectful. You do such a phenomenal job and I know. This is not an easy thing, and it's again, it's I mean nothing by it. I.

B

Don't know it is truly just discussion. It's a healthy debate.

F

That's it and I: don't want this to be malicious, I, don't want there to be in the back of mine. Oh we hateful it's not like that. You yourself, Mrs, King I, saw you coming here on a Friday morning. I mean granted, it was you know, Ramadan I was starving and fasting and I came about five minutes late. You know, I know how hard you work. I swear, I'd be the first one to tell you if anybody wanted to especially comes with someone.

F

So if he came after your pay, I'd be the first one to defend. You I think so much.

A

It's just a differences in opinion. That's all that's! It.

H

A

B

G

B

Careful so let's talk about the golf course here we had requested a budget of 2.5 million in uh 22.23. We have spent 1.7 right now and um a recommended budget for next year is 569 000.

D

A

We're still God.

D

Not going to get into any questions about this at the fact that I am going to be calling the mayor to sit down talk with him on this I, don't believe that a budget is going to be there year in and year out at least I'm hoping not if.

J

I may I agree if I may uh we're just moving the remaining funds to next fiscal year, because we don't believe that we're going to pay them this fiscal year. So again, there was eight hundred thousand dollars for the CFO and one million seven hundred and seventy for the Golf Course Maintenance and operations and the purchasing of the equipment.

J

um So it's not like an additional 500 000, it's from the same 2.2 that is just being pushed to the next year.

D

Okay, something I want to talk to the mayor about, and I'll, be coming to see you very shortly about this discussion.

E

I

A

E

Like to make a comment on the golf course Saturday, both Mr Muscat myself were there. He was there.

D

E

Oh, were you there too Tom? Okay, we were there three of us different times, and the gentleman I talked to coming off the course had done five holes. He recommended it highly. His group is going to be golfing there every Tuesday, and he did say that it's much better than Inkster and they I know have canceled one of their sessions. This week my son's scheduled time was canceled and the comment this Mr Randy from Garden City made was that if we had room, we should consider a driving range that would bring money to.

H

A

So my pretty good friends had been scheduled to go golf there and he's very, very disappointed because the mayor was not able to hold off on the rain and it rained and they could not go properly. So I I'm talking to the attorney and we'll be we'll be pursuing that with the mayor, go right ahead.

I

I ran into two mother nature. I also ran into two I got blamed for World War.

A

One kind of a golf.

D

Course, as they say it rings, it's ridiculous. I ran it to two people today who golfed Saturday in the rain, and they actually said they didn't want to stop playing it and they're very excited to play all all the time now and it was actually a gentleman that doesn't even live in the city. He says it's by far the Beck. The golf course has looked in 30 years: okay,.

A

I'm gonna I'm gonna ask a question on the golf course and and it's the elephant in the room, so we need to address it so uh word on the street. The question on the street social media call it whatever you want to call. It is where we've gone way over the budget in in and I asked that question on a regular basis, in other words, I shouldn't.

A

Let me rephrase that now we've gone over budget, we're spending more money than we I guess if you want to call anticipated, and some of these fees have been for a reason whether it's been the carts, whether it's been um no.

I

Cards, we didn't pay for that card.

A

Not well leasing.

I

No, no, no they, oh, neither I'm sorry uh survive is paying for that. Golf. Okay,.

A

But but I'm talking about like in general and what I've said to them is these were items that Mr did, for example, came back with, and I also think that we found that we did not anticipate when we originally started. We were trying to get it going as fast as possible. We didn't want to shut down for the year. We didn't want the bushes to keep getting bigger and the trees keep getting taller grass, etc, etc. So we try to get it going as fast as possible.

A

There has been some things that have been found on the golf course that were not anticipated, and thus you know they've come back to us for approval for city council for approval. Just because we allocated a certain amount doesn't mean it's the end, all be all. It is still within our jurisdiction. If you want to call as a council body to agree to pay for additional fees like, for example, when it comes to mounting uh the golf cart paths, okay, repairs and extension 800 814 000, that was not anticipated a year ago, right.

G

A

This came up now and the past are worth they're terrible and some of them are cut off. So we have to add additional funds for that. The construction of the equipment, storage building, which is 154 000 again uh us as a council body, agreed to pay that, because, without that, the golf carts would be sent in potentially the rain rusting, etc, etc.

A

So we agreed to pay for that, and then you have the construction restoration of the two outdoor restrooms again those we knew there would be some repairs needed, but they ended up being a lot worse than everybody anticipated. So all I'm saying is ultimately after when I've been asked, this question have we spent a little bit more than anticipated? Yes, but at the same time, I feel my personal feeling. This golf course is a service that we provide to the community.

A

It is not necessarily a profit center right because, if we're basing our decision making based on it being a profit Center, if you want to call it and I supported that back then I'm not denying it, then we would have just built houses on there and we would have bought in Revenue you take on average home would have been 30 40, 50 000 in potential taxes times 250 300 homes that could have been built there. This would have been some major major revenue for the city.

A

Well, as a body as a total body with Administration, we chose to keep it as a golf course to provide a service to the community and not necessarily be a profit Center. So for those that question the amount of money that's being put out, yes, it's being put out, but it's providing a great service to the residents versus just being on no losses and all profit which in that case would have been potentially houses which again I support it, I'm, not denying it I supported it at the time. Well, let me take it back.

A

I supported looking at the idea. It's not like we approved it. I was all open-minded to. Let's take a look at this idea. Let's take a look at the golf course idea and see where we go from there, so just wanted to address that because that's the elephant in the room. Okay, any other questions from council members on the golf course Council.

C

Chair I just had a question: um it was approved to spend 2 million 570 000 and activity to date is one million eight hundred and eighty two thousand one hundred seventy five. If you subtract that from the 2.5 it doesn't, it doesn't equal 569., it equals more than that equals 600 and 88.

B

Which is what is left in the budget right now is 687., however. Well.

C

Here it says: 569., that's.

A

Budgeting for next year, yeah.

B

Because we were assuming that we would not use up the whole amount of 2.5 million this year.

J

So again, we're going to have invoices of approximately maybe a hundred thousand more before the end of the year, and the remaining invoices are probably going to come after the fact. So.

A

The money is still available, it has not been all used, but that doesn't mean it care. It doesn't doesn't mean it automatically carries over into next year's budget, which is an expense.

C

Okay, you know, um like I, said 100 times: I have nothing against the golf course or the gentleman running the golf course or the bank facility. My objection is the amount of money being spent I was there Saturday I was taking on an exclusive tour and I was very excited. Pretty. It was really cool, but since since in the last year and a half the information we've gotten on any money spent has been zero, we got, we got something from Rachel Lapointe, which I think we should have a meeting with her at the meeting.

C

So she could tell us numbers that you know what she's found out, because.

A

That's okay, I'm gonna, cut y'all for a second, although resident is allowed to speak. We.

C

A

Meeting with a resident to toss the numbers, that's something we'd have.

C

To ask these are official numbers that were afforded by the city right.

A

Okay, some weekly administration of government with us, I, don't know if we're going to bring in a residents. We.

C

Can have him as a guest a resident as a guest and anyone we can have any Department can have anyone come in and speak as.

A

A guest right, but I I, just don't know if a resident is going to be the one that's going to give us a presentation. They're welcome to speak, of course, because.

C

Of the information actually.

A

Before you go out, Marianne I'm excited to be fair because I cut him off, go ahead.

C

I'm just saying that's: this person is the only person that has given us any dollar figure on anything in over a year and the reason she got it was because no one gave it to her. She had to foil yet now I I'm, assuming these are all accurate numbers. Council.

I

C

When you guys are.

I

Done yeah thank.

C

You go ahead and that's right. No, no.

A

I'm gonna finish up awesome, I'm good, that's all right! So to be fair mayor, please first so go ahead! Mariana and the mayor.

J

So, with all doing which all the expenses have been approved by the council, um the majority of the expenses that you see, the the amount we've spent so far to date is for the golf course contract that you had and if you look at exhibit a it, had the breakdown of all of the items that uh revive needed to bring that back to code.

J

So again, a lot of that you approved when you approved that contract, um then when we did buy equipment which was also in that contract, we did come back to you and ask for permission to purchase the half a million dollars plus of equipment that we purchased and uh with regards to information that you may require. As far as the breakdown of information I'm, pretty sure me and the Comptroller can give you the same information. We gave Ms Lapointe when she foia did your council member you're free to ask for that information. At any point.

D

A request to our Treasurer about the amount of money we spent on the golf course from the day we signed the contract and she responded and she responded correctly that each month she has sent us the registry and for me to go, look at the register on it, and so that's something that is there. It's everybody can see it so I mean we could see it. So nobody can say that we didn't have it.

D

We have it and that's what I'm going to be going through and go line by line and checking it out of what we spent. So this is not something that's secret and I've got that email that I I, received from the treasurer and uh and I'll also sit down with a Treasurer to make sure that I'm I'm I'm gathering the right information from the right line, but it's there. She assures me it's all there.

D

So this is not something secret and when we have people come in here with all due respect about mentioning a citizen comes up to the to the podium and says I did this I did this? These people also give us false information. Yes, also about saying well, this person quit today that person didn't quit that person retired. It sends out a whole negative, yes negative thing to the general public. You can't be giving out false information like that. Well, I did this die for you that I don't know who's, not doctoring.

D

The numbers all I know is from the the we have all the information sent To Us by the Comptroller and the treasurer every single month.

B

Yes, your budget to actual will show you the expenses.

D

Total expenses and that's really our job, okay, mayor.

I

I was pretty much going to say what uh like what uh the chief of staff well. Both both phones are going off. Oh, the Chiefs call me come I'll come right back.

I

We have an incident Dearborn Heights, so I gotta go address it here. We had a very bad situation um again. You know the chief of staff already mentioned it, and uh the council is already. If you I mean anybody can sit with a resident, but I'll tell you we're not going to have a I'm not going to have a meeting. You know to sit down with somebody presenting something to me because I already know what we're presenting all that Council sees everything that we spend. There's nothing.

I

We can't even approve anything over 1500 bucks without Council approval, so everything that is for is foia. You guys already have in the information you guys already bought into it. You guys already approved it. So again, as councilman Pro tem said you guys whoever's asking that questions they need. They need to go back to the package and review the package.

I

Some packages are not even reviewed till the day of the meeting, so you guys do review the package and you guys have the stuff in the package and every everything that we sent on the foil is you guys already have seen it a month or three or maybe six months before already so I would advise.

D

Whoever you have to add to that Mr Mayor anything under fifteen hundred dollars. You can request the check register from the.

I

Treasurer everything everything is listed, so every every penny.

D

So nothing is being hidden. Council chair when I was on when.

I

I was on Council I used to look at everything, and you guys can do the same thing. Whatever you request that you guys make we we send it to you. So this is not. This is not secret and I I I'm gonna Echo. What the councilman Protime said.

I

People need to stop putting false information for the residents, we're trying to bring in new people we're trying to hire people but somebody's saying negative stuff about the city and, as I mentioned before, we have investors that want to come in and invest in a city and two huge investors backed off. They were going to invest a lot of money on a Van Born Corridor because of the new ordinance. So right now that person backed off because they watch couple of our meetings are are great, Council meetings.

I

So this is what I'm trying to avoid I'm trying to protect the city. I'm. Trying to make sure that you know there's positive stuff is, is whatever positive thing is being going on in the city or happens. We need to tell the residents not people, spending false information, spreading false information or or false narrative about the city or what's going on because, what's being said and social media or even here right there in the podium is false and I'm not going to sit here and counter every freaking thing that has been said. That's it.

C

I

C

The time I was just going to say that um if someone made a statement that you know every anything over 1500 has to be approved by city council I'm. Just using these two gentlemen as an example, but there was um two director police directors hired and they were paid a salary without any, not one penny be to proved by city council.

C

So we do not approve every penny. That's spent. It was not brought before us. It was many positions are created without city council approval and their salaries are approved without city council Council.

D

Councils are thousands of dollars, Council children.

C

D

Know we're getting we're getting off off track and on our budget, but if you look back and see what we had, we had a police chief and two Deputy directors for many years. Those Deputy directors aren't there anymore and these two people kind of took those places. Yes, okay, so it wasn't something that was hidden no and you were not on Council when those Deputy directors were brought in I voted no on them.

D

Okay, they have two Deputy directors, because it just showed on how the next police chief was being picked, Deputy, Chief or Deputy Chiefs yeah. So it's nothing new. We just have two different people. One.

N

A

D

Took Lieutenant voyles's Place, who became a deputy.

F

Director names I'm, just I, don't care I'm.

C

Not objecting to the position, everybody knows.

B

But what you're saying is inaccurate and what he's trying to tell you that it is. They were two two positions that were filled with two other people. Their titles were just different names. Well,.

C

They they were off the budget for a while. It was out of budget for us on.

B

The budget they were on the budget.

A

Okay, but let's not, let's not go into somebody personal unless you.

C

Feel I'm just saying that every penny that's spent is not approved by city council.

B

It is it, is, you do okay,.

A

um Anything else on the Warren Valley Golf Course. Okay, uh there was some uh there's an email um for some asks uh from councilman, Ahmad and I, just wanna at least address some do I address them here. Do I address them at a regular council meeting. Oh.

B

That's totally up to you, we can address them now.

A

Okay, so let's start with the first one um he's asking for a budget of fifty thousand dollars from the cable fund for council members to have 10 minutes each every month to Showcase whatever they like about the city, yeah and I know you had sent us an email, so yeah, yes,.

B

I did uh I was a little confused on that, because I thought that should have been something that comes through the mayor or the mayor. May request to have a uh another individual hired in that position in the cable Department, especially since Angela is part-time and.

I

Now, she's full-time is she full-time? Okay can I, also uh Council chair, it's not as simple as just budgeting that there's also scheduling so just because you record something: that's why I haven't been recording things, because these Council meetings are so short nowadays that there's no time you know, because they have a small Time air time that we can put stuff on on cable. So until we limit the amount of time that we put, you know Council meetings, you know we get.

I

You know we're limiting the amount of time that we actually put stuff up for residents because of that the requirement is putting on us. So that's that we can't do that as a at this point. Okay, we limit the amount of time that the council meetings go on.

A

Okay, so I don't want to take over his baby, but I'm just going out there just for public information, but that's something he'll have to address again. The next one is I know this. One came up in the past. um I know how I felt about it in the past uh as far as hiring an additional. So this one uh he'd like to add fifty thousand dollars.

I

I'm sorry Council chair did you guys get the email so that.

A

Well, I did I did controller.

I

If she can address each one, because she he she did actually go through it and she addressed each one, because we do have a uh the way trim that companies actually come in they're they're, actually putting in for a lot of funding. So we you know we can look at that at the following year, when they, when their contract is done.

I

But we have the funding Scouts.

A

Already but you.

I

Guys are requesting okay.

A

So some of these emails, like we've, talked about before when we get an email within an hour or two of the council meetings. I mean, let's, let's just to be fair, um I, seen an email pop up. As you know, I was in here at City Hall for two three meetings. Yes, you were uh and then left for 20 minutes or 30 minutes and came back into this budget meeting. So um especially I speak for myself working full-time. You know, I have another job too right.

A

So it's hard to get all the answers, but I just think we need to address them, so we could either address them now or maybe more appropriate. We'll wait until Hassan Ahmad uh has had a chance to read over those emails and then we could go out. Maybe address them at the next regular council meeting, not tomorrow, but the week after. It's.

I

Probably a good idea to address them when he's here, because each one she was, she addressed.

G

I

Them individually right and uh so the funding Scott. So basically it was requesting money for a person.

A

Writer, the grant writer, as you know, for years, I've been pushing for that and I'm in total agreement with that one, because if.

L

A

Pay a grant writer 50.

N

A

70 80, whatever it is thousand dollars yeah year, they bring in way more than that and we've seen the best example of that with our favorite Lisa enough uh fire.

I

Department well Council chair. We have the funding Scout work already working doing exactly the same right now so.

H

I

Contract is over over the following year, then we can actually look at a grant writer full-time with the city, but at this point the funding Scout, it has I think 20 applications right now for Grants.

C

A

And I and I know one last one: just and I'm just throwing these We're not gonna go into a full debate.

G

A

I'm, just throwing them out there last one he mentioned was a lobbyist. I did bring in. If.

H

You remember somebody.

A

Well, I did bring in somebody, we met me and the mayor and I believe it was the attorney we met with them. Lobbyists.

I

Yeah we yeah I'm.

A

I

So we are, we are looking at that as well, but at this point we want to see what the funding Scout will do and uh okay, we we.

E

I

Know one one of the good things is we're working very closely with our Congressional and and state senators or U.S senators for also grants. So probably next year, it'll be a good idea, but right now, but.

A

With grants and lobbyists, no matter how much okay so I think us politicians working different elected officials over and above us at the state, county and federal level, I think it's effective, I think it's a variable. I think a bigger variable is when you have specific lobbyists and I want to make it clear, a bigger variable when you have specific lobbyists and grant writers going after that money, because the friendships we developed with different elected officials, I think is important, but I don't think it brings in as much money as it would.

A

We have people uh in positions paid salaries to do nothing but there and assessed at the end of the year, based on how much money they bring in as to whether they continue with that job or we move on to somebody else. So I think working different elected officials is an important variable, but I don't think it's the main variable. In my opinion, Council.

C

Chairs yeah I agree on the lobbyist part and uh Bill bazzi wasn't 100 correct on the funding Scout we they are under contract to find grants now, that's all we're paying them for, but if we want them to we'll pay them additional money to write the grant, that's where a grant writer would come in. If we had a full-time grammar they could find out. They we still pay them their amount. Keep finding grants, give them to our friend writer, grant writer. Let them write the right to Grant so.

I

Council chair since I was called a liar so I like the chief of staff discussion.

C

I

J

The contract was for both items, it was for scouting for Grants and it was also to pay an additional fee for the applications. So the contract has both and.

C

The contract, we don't have to pay them additional, but.

J

um If I may continue, so the reason that I personally really appreciate a pre-funding scout and so does Mr dibb is that they are again. They are a corporation. They are a team of people and they have a wide knowledge base with various different employees.

J

So they can go after a fire, Grant or a police Grant or an engineering Grant, and do the applications for each one of those for us, which is an extremely rare skill for one individual to have expertise in all of those areas, especially with regards to the rules of each one of those specific grants.

J

So, yes, we're paying a Contracting firm, but it is backed up by a team of people that are specialized in each of the areas that we need, as a city now, I'm not saying that having a grant writer in-house won't help in the long run. I just feel that for right now, funding Scout is working really well. You will be surprised when we bring you the report of how much grants they've applied, for how much earmarks they've applied for how much we're getting support from senators and governors.

J

As the mayor already mentioned, I don't like to bring things to the council until they are finalized and approved, which is why you haven't seen it. But we have gotten a lot of positive feedback that we are moving forward in the right direction to get those funds for the city. So that's. My recommendation for right now is continue with the contract that you already approved for the next year and a half, and you can reconsider after that.

J

But again it's an unusual skill to be to have an expertise in all of the areas of municipality with one person which.

A

Is a company? Does that writing period? Is I've asked a lot of people about it's, not a skilled position, it's a skilled position at a whole nother level, and it's not something that you know you graduate school with you just you either got it or you don't got it. Somebody can juggle, they either can do it or they can't do it.

J

And again, with the broad spectrum of grants that we apply for again, you have to rely on multiple people who are reading all of those rules who have the expertise on which projects are most eligible, because it's not just a matter of apply for the grant. They're. Also advising us of this one is too competitive and it requires.

N

Too much administrative.

J

Work, so you shouldn't go for it. You might want to focus on this other one. So having that historical knowledge of those grants is the skill that I swear, it would be almost impossible to find one person who can do all of that. Okay,.

A

We all said councilman good okay, so next up with no additional questions from Council, Members, I presume I'm gonna go ahead and open it up to the public in the audience and on Zoom, so we will start with zoom anybody on Zoom. That has anything here. Questions get.

D

This concerns comments. Let me get this opened up and.

A

I, don't see anybody raising.

D

Their hands, unless nothing, this is going to be two or three minutes.

A

uh We'll give them three minutes: okay,.

E

A

D

We hope he can see, though you'll have three.

A

D

L

Can you hear me.

A

L

All right, uh this trapkowski Columbia Street, Dearborn Heights spring County, Michigan um I, just want you guys to keep in mind that you're budgeting for taxpayers that pay the bills for this city, and you got to keep in mind that a lot of them are making two or three hundred thousand dollars a year or or 400 000 a year. Okay, uh you've got a certain amount of individuals out here that are low income now I know you're all worth a lot of money.

L

Some are worth more than others, but you took these jobs and you took them based off. You know knowing that you're gonna have to work smiles.

L

So keep that in mind, um and please just to me it sounds like you're starting to get a little greedy and a little cocky on your position. So keep that in mind. This is not a corporation where you have multiple millions of dollars coming in. This is a municipality, and if somebody was wanting to raise in your city where you live, you'd be shaking your head now, when I guarantee that that's.

A

What I got to say.

L

A

Thank you. Anybody else on Zoom, okay, anybody else in the audience coming up city street name. Please.

M

Muhammad Yani uh Evangeline Dearborn Heights. um This is my first of many, hopefully going forward corporate uh fund budget hearings and I'm learning a lot, um but I just have some basic questions.

M

First of all for the services such as uh payroll companies such as phone companies such as these companies that you contribute, do you guys every year bid out for maybe less expensive services, for example the phone company or the payroll company, seven, seven thousand? Is it seven thousand a month that they get to do the payroll? How many employees does the city have total just? Does anybody know.

B

Yes, it's proxylite. Yes, it's approximately 400 employees, okay,.

M

And do you guys bid out? Do you.

B

We are in the we are in the process right now of bidding out that, and we just met with quite a few different payroll companies. It's not that easy to just bid it out to the lowest bidder. There is a lot of information that goes into the payroll system that really we're trying to streamline it, to make it a lot more, cleaner and um well.

M

I'm sure I don't have to.

B

M

Mean there's paychecks, there's.

B

Paychecks ADP paycom, we met with paychecks, we met with paycom and we have Paylocity right now. So, yes, we are in.

M

The process of doing that, that's good to know um and there's a there's, a report accurate or a Curie.

H

M

Is that I'm not sure what that.

D

Is that that is a person that comes in and, for instance, uh they they'll they'll, take like say, act, 3 45, which is the fire and pension they'll go through that whole list of how many people that are all their seniority, all their pay and then come up with how much it's going to cost this year to put money into a system to make sure there's enough money to.

A

Pay based on life expectancy and they take life.

M

D

All of that into consideration.

M

Actually is a company who comes in and basically tells you what it's going to cost you to run the city potentially potentially.

A

Yeah I mean like when they, for example, expected life expectancy, I.

M

Mean obviously 100, but.

A

M

On data they have so, and is there other companies, I mean these other. This is my question.

A

Most things are put out for what they call rfps uh requests for proposals; okay, so they put it out there we get bids, it's not always necessarily the lowest bid that we go with the council body will decide based on multiple variables, including the price yeah.

M

Always 24 is not always better I get that but I'm just wondering if, if that's all being.

D

But I believe the actuary for some people like act. 345 is already built into act. 345.

A

In general yeah but I'm just saying.

D

Like but I'm saying act, 345 I think they have their own actuary. Okay, it's already there. So we don't bid that out it's already there, so they use their actuary uh and that's a professional, firm, okay that uh uh they.

M

Do pretty good I mean I'm I'm, just wondering if, because it goes along with my question, do you guys bid out everything and that- and the answer is yes I'm- glad to hear that uh my last statement is um when it comes to transparency and for the residents in this city? Transparency is very, very important again, I believe in a philosophy conversations create Solutions the devil's in the disconnect and I believe this City's not really connect this.

M

This council is really not connecting with the city as much as they could be should be, and that goes along with the mayor's office. So I'm not here to say anything negative, but transparency like councilman B Doon had mentioned in regards to pay. He was I, think Mr wansal and be doing weren't asking for names. They've said that multiple times all they were asking for is a breakdown in each department. Yes, when you get the breakdown, you get the title you find out the person's name, but that goes along with the job.

M

That's all I have to say thank you.

A

Okay, thank you. Anybody else in the audience.

C

um You stated earlier that you and the clerk were talking about it actuary coming in.

A

Yeah we've set it up, I think she said: May 16th.

C

We use the same actuary all the time, uh basically I believe we do I believe we do can.

A

G

C

Asked for it before and I haven't got it. The actuary report on the command officers contract asked for that about a month ago. I'd never seen it, and that involves.

A

C

Asked for it I asked uh um this director and I.

B

Think HR, Director, yes and I believe that the time we didn't have it it just came in in the end of April, so I can I can send it to you.

C

B

The actual report for the pension that you're looking for the.

C

The contract, the command officers, contract, okay,.

B

That's two different things, so the contract that has already been signed on yes,.

D

I, don't think, there's an actuary.

B

D

The road but the pension part that you haven't actually I'll, tell you what the pension she'll send.

C

You what that part is yeah yeah, okay,.

D

But they don't the.

C

Whole contract, no, no just just the actuaries. Basically I'm from my understanding is it's there. When you have to determine future money is being put in like getting into a pension, correct yeah, and that was that that's the pension part. That's.

D

B

Thing right, yeah, but the contract.

C

Itself, the kind not the contract, no.

B

Okay, you just want the pension Network.

C

Black and white, what's in the contract? Okay, thank you.

J

And just to clarify all of the pension actuary reports are managed by the pension board, so they typically get presented by that group of people, not the controller, but we do have it now because they've shared it with us.

J

um If you haven't approved it yet or seen it as receive note on file I'm sure the pension is coming to you soon. Okay, look.

E

At the email address, okay after the meeting.

A

Okay, no other questions. Thank you very much controller. Thank you very much, Chief of Staff. Thank you very much. You shared everything and good night George. Thank.

C

You very much very much and.

A

Good night.