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From YouTube: 8-26-20 Zoning Board of Adjustment
Description
Des Moines Zoning Board of Adjustment meeting via teleconference on Wednesday, August. 26, 2020.
Help us caption & translate this video!
https://amara.org/v/C2QVk/
A
A
A
This
board
has
the
power
under
iowa
law
and
the
zoning
ordinance
of
the
city
of
des
moines
to
hear
and
make
decisions
on
requests
for
variances
and
exceptions
from
the
regulations
in
the
zoning
ordinance
to
review
conditional
requests
to
consider
appeals
from
any
decision
of
city
staff
in
the
administration
of
the
zoning
ordinance.
Members
of
this
board
are
citizens
of
the
city
of
des
moines
and
have
been
appointed
to
the
board
by
the
city
council.
The
board
members
are
volunteers
and
receive
no
compensation
for
their
public
service.
A
My
name
is
mel
pins,
I'm
the
board
chairman
and
just
for
these
opening
remarks.
In
order
to
welcome
everybody.
I've
got
my
video
feed
up
here,
but
I'm
going
to
take
that
video
off,
but
just
wanted
to
welcome
everybody
to
our
process
here
today.
Our
board
members
participating
today
are
nathan,
blake,
cindy
smith,
marlis
jones,
justin
gross
and
myself.
A
I'm
going
to
go
through
the
meeting
procedure
here.
Our
meeting
procedure
is
exactly
the
same
as
it
would
be.
If
we
were
all
here
in
person
at
a
live
hearing,
we
do
have
a
few
things
with
how
you'll
be
asked
to
be
recognized
during
your
time
for
participation
in
the
hearing
and
I'll
go
over
that.
Otherwise,
this
is
the
same
process.
A
While
this
is
a
public
open
meeting,
the
meeting
is
being
recorded.
This
is
a
quasi-judicial
legal
hearing.
The
board
members
have
each
received
a
copy
of
the
agenda
and
the
staff
recommendations,
the
law
or
I'm
sorry.
The
board
is
required
to
base
its
decision
on
each
item
upon
the
criteria
established
by
law
for
the
type
of
relief
sought
by
the
applicant.
The
law
applicable
to
each
case
has
been
been
identified
in
the
written
staff
report.
A
If
the
fax,
as
determined
by
this
board,
demonstrates
that
the
criteria
established
by
law
for
granting
the
relief
has
been
satisfied,
then
the
board
must
grant
the
requested
relief.
Otherwise,
the
board
must
deny
the
release.
Each
item
will
be
announced
in
the
order
that
it
appears
on
the
agenda
items
listed
on
the
consent
portion,
which
is
the
first
portion
of
the
agenda,
are
not
planned
to
be
individually
discussed.
A
The
applicant
or
their
representative
will
then
be
allowed
up
to
10
minutes
to
present
their
appeal.
We
will
then
move
to
the
the
appellate,
or
we
will
then
move
to
the
public
comment
portion
of
the
hearing.
Anyone
wanting
to
speak
of
opposition
to
or
to
speak
in
neutrality
of
the
appeal
will
be
allowed
up
to
five
minutes
each
to
provide
their
comments.
A
This
will
be
their
one
and
only
opportunity
to
address
the
board,
and
the
board
will
take
time
to
make
sure
that
we
give
plenty
of
time
to
ask
for
and
get
everybody
recognized
during
their
time
to
participate
when
it
is
your
time
to
speak.
If
you
wish
to
speak
on
the
item
at
hand,
please
click
the
raise
hand
icon
on
the
participants
panel.
If
you
are
participating
via
zoom
on
your
computer
or
press
star
9.
A
If
you
are
participating
over
the
phone,
this
will
allow
the
meeting
moderator
to
know
to
call
on
you
and
again
when
the
time
comes,
we'll
give
those
instructions
again
when
it
is
your
turn,
the
meeting
moderator
will
unmute
your
microphone
and
acknowledge
that
it
is
your
turn
if
you
have
any
documents
that
you
need
to
use
in
your
presentation
today.
If
you
have
not
already,
you
will
need
to
email
those
documents
for
the
record
to
planning
at
dmgov.org,
that's
planning
at
dmgov.org
p-l-a-n-n-I-n-g
at
d-m-g-o-v
dot
o-r-g.
A
A
Okay,
let's
see
the
board,
will
then
all
let's
see,
where
did
I
leave
off?
Okay?
All
speakers
are
requested
to
begin
their
presentation
by
giving
both
their
name
and
address
that
address
can
be
your
place
of
business
if
you're,
here
in
a
professional
capacity
as
a
business
owner
attorney
a
consultant,
an
architect,
etc.
A
If
you're
here
as
an
individual
resident,
please
give
your
address
of
residence.
All
speakers
are
requested
to
remain
courteous
and
to
focus
their
comments
only
upon
those
facts
that
demonstrate
whether
or
not
the
criteria
established
by
law
has
been
satisfied.
Speakers
are
also
asked
to
ensure
that
they
are
respectful
of
time
considerations
and,
if
necessary,
we
will
limit
further
comments
by
speaker
if
they
exceed
their
time
limitation.
A
After
speakers
present
their
concerns,
the
board
will
close
any
further
co.
Public
comment
on
the
item
and
the
board
will
immediately
deliberate
the
request
and
we
will
make
a
decision
here
today
during
the
hearing.
Please
note
that
it
takes
at
least
four
affirmative
votes
for
any
zoning
appeal
to
gain
approval.
A
We
normally
have
we
have
seven
members
on
this
board.
We
have
very
good
attendance.
Sometimes
we
do
have
members
that
have
no
other
choice
but
have
to
be
absent.
So
today
we
have
two
absent
members
that
leaves
five
members
of
the
board
to
deliberate.
Today,
as
I
stated,
it
takes
at
least
four
affirmative
votes
for
any
appeal
to
be
approved.
A
So
if
you're
on
our
agenda
today
for
approval
of
your
item
again,
you're
gonna
have
to
convince
four
out
of
the
five
of
us
to
to
get
your
appeal
granted.
So
for
some
reason,
someone
feels
that
that
might
not
give
them
fair
enough
shake
in
the
hearing
process
and
they'd
like
to
have
more
members
present.
You
can
ask
for
your
agenda
item
to
be
continued
to
the
next
regular
hearing.
A
A
If
your
appeal
is
approved
at
today's
hearing,
we
ask
that
you
wait
until
next
week
to
contact
the
city's
permit
and
development
center
if
you
would
need
to
obtain
any
necessary
building
permits.
This
allows
the
board's
decision
to
be
documented
in
the
form
of
a
decision
and
order.
Any
appeal
that
is
approved
by
the
board
must
be
implemented,
constructed
or
otherwise,
utilized
within
two
years
of
the
date
of
the
decision
by
this
board.
Otherwise
the
approval
shall
expire.
A
The
decisions
of
this
board
can
only
be
appealed
in
the
polk
county
district
court
if
you
believe
you've
been
harmed
by
an
error
made
by
this
board.
Your
only
remedy
is
to
seek
relief
through
the
district
court
within
30
days
of
the
filing
of
the
board's
decision
and
order,
if
you
believe
the
zoning
regulations
applied
by
this
board
are
wrong.
You
may
petition
the
city
council
to
change
those
regulations
for
future
considerations.
A
All
material,
written
or
otherwise
used
today,
as
part
of
any
presentation,
will
become
a
permanent
part
of
the
record
and
will
not
be
returned.
You
may
contact
staff
after
the
hearing.
If
you
need
a
copy
of
any
materials
that
someone
presented
today
again,
we
remind
you
you'll
need
to
email
any
documents
or
photos
that
you
want
to
present
today
to
planning
at
dmgov.org.
A
A
B
Sure,
mr
members
of
the
board,
bert
ross
planner
for
the
city
of
des
moines,
we
do
have
five
items
that
have
requested
continuance.
The
first
one
is
item
number
four.
At
1606
center
street
verizon
has
requested
a
continuance
to
the
september
23rd
board
of
adjustment
meeting
and
then
on
items.
5
6,
7
and
8
cases
has
requested
a
continuance
of
those
four
items
to
the
october
28th
board
of
adjustment
meeting,
and
this
is
the
first
time
that
any
of
these
five
items
have
requested
a
continuance.
So
staff
is
supportive
of
these
requests.
A
D
A
A
B
Correct
items
one
and
two
item:
one
is
at
2106,
echo
valley,
drive
staff
has
recommended
approval
and
I
believe
the
applicant
agrees
with
the
conditions
we
received
no
opposition
to
that
one.
So
I
believe
that
could
be
approved
on
the
consent
and
then
item
number
two
is
a
request
at
1940
and
1960
east
army
post
road
for
a
conditional
use,
and
we
received
no
written
objections
to
that
one
that
one
could
also
be
approved
on
the
consent
agenda.
A
Okay,
all
right,
what
I'm
going
to
do
is
ask
our
audience
here:
those
that
are
attending
the
hearing.
Is
there
anybody
in
the
audience
who
would
be
opposed
to
granting
conditional
use
approvals
for
casey's
marketing
at
2106?
Echo
valley
drive,
that's
item
1
or
for
the
hindu,
cultural
and
educational
center
at
1940
to
1960
east
army
post
road,
which
is
item
two.
If
there
is
any
member
of
the
audience
that
wishes
to
object
to
granting
conditional
use
approvals
on
items
one
or
two,
we
will
then
do
a
full
hearing
for
those
items
here
today.
A
If
you
would
object
to
granting
the
conditional
use
approvals,
if
you're
participating
by
zoom
raise
your
hand
on
the
participant
panel
use
the
little
hand
icon.
If
you're
participating
by
phone
hit
star,
nine
and
staff
will
look
for
those
requests
and
then
we
will
acknowledge
you.
So
is
there
anybody
here
in
opposition
to
granting
approvals
for
item
one
or
two
hit
star
nine
on
your
phone
or
raise
hand
on
zoom.
A
A
F
A
Okay,
all
right,
so
that
motion
passing
if
you
were
the
appellant
for
items
one
or
two
about
this
time
next
week,
staff
will
have
a
written
decision
and
order,
noting
the
approval
and
the
conditions
for
that
they
will
provide
a
copy
of
that
to
you
for
your
record.
So
if
anybody
was
interested
in
item
one
or
two
today,
those
have
been
reviewed
approved
and
we
will
now
move
on
to
our
regular
consent
agenda
and
we'll
begin
that
with
item
three.
A
G
G
G
And
then
zooming
out
and
giving
a
little
more
context,
almost
straight
south,
then
you
can
also
see
that
come
and
go.
Has
a
pole
sign
that
was
approved
back
when
they
were
developed
under
a
planned
unit
development
at
the
time,
so
they
were
granted
the
right
to
have
a
poll
sign
at
that
time,
even
though
it's
a
fairly
new
development.
G
G
G
G
G
G
G
From
that
standpoint,
it
becomes
a
variance
in
order
to
allow
the
pole
sign
to
remain,
but
looking
at
the
other
provisions
of
the
of
the
code
applicable
to
monument
signs,
we
believe
they
can
achieve
the
same
purpose
and
intent
by
providing
a
monument
sign
at
essentially
the
same
height
and
neat
at
22
and
a
half
feet.
They
would
get
that
relief
as
an
exception,
rather
than
a
variance
and
would
not
need
to
demonstrate
that
hardship,
unnecessary
hardship
tests.
G
So
we
would
be
supportive
of
a
type
2
zoning
exception
to
give
it
that
height
as
a
monument
type
sign,
essentially
in
the
same
location,
they
would
need
to
make
sure
it
would
be
set
back
25
feet
from
property
lines
which
I
believe
the
location
of
the
existing
sign
already
meets
that.
But
they
would
have
some
flexibility
if
they
needed
to
place
it.
G
G
A
A
Even
if
we
quote
do
a
monument
sign,
if
they
would
do
that,
I'm
just
trying
to
visualize
what
this
would
look
like.
They'd
have
to
have
the
appropriate
monument
base.
That
would
need
to
be
at
least
as
wide
as
the
sign
face,
but
then
would
they
be
allowed
to
put
a
pole
above
that
monument
base,
or
would
the
sign
width
have
to
be
kind
of
parallel
with
the
width
of
the
foundation?
If
you
follow
my
thinking
here,.
G
G
A
So
my
reason
for
that
question:
first
of
all,
you
answered
it.
So
if
I
visualize
this,
they
would
wind
up
with
a
sign
that
has
quite
a
lot
more
quote
area
to
it.
It
would
look
like
a
monolith.
Much
like
you
know,
2001
a
space
odyssey,
the
movie,
wouldn't
that
draw
a
greater
concern
for
sign
size
and
volume
than
if
they
left
the
existing
pole
sign,
as
is.
G
A
G
G
You
know
we
generally
in
pre-apps.
We
point
out
that
all
signage
is
subject
to
you
know
getting
signed
permits
from
licensed
signed
contractors.
I
don't
know
if
we,
when
this
came
in
for
pre-app
at
that
point,
if
we
were
already
pretty
cognizant
of
the
notion
that
the
new
code
was
going
to
trigger
that
trigger
that
removal
of
the
poll.
G
I
G
A
G
G
They
earn
signage
on
the
building
and
it
appears
they
have
signage
on
that
facade
just
behind
them,
yeah
the
pulse
sign.
I
see
the
letter
again,
I
think
again.
Thermo
king
is
a
brand,
not
necessarily
the
name
of
their
business,
but
it's
a
brand,
that's
recognized,
and
so
it's
I
think,
it's
known
throughout
the
cartage
yep
industry,
as
as
for
refrigerated
service,
so
got
it
okay.
I
believe
that
they're
really
pointing
to
that
important
element.
A
A
Okay,
seeing
none
will
go
to
the
applicant.
The
applicant's
representative
has
up
to
10
minutes
you
for
you
to
present
your
reasoning
for
your
appeal.
We
need
you
to
start
with
your
name
with
spelling
if
needed,
and
the
address
of
where
you're
of
who
you're
representing
and
if
you
need
to
either
raise
your
hand
or
staff
will
grant
you
authority
here.
So
we'll
turn
it
over
to
you.
The.
H
H
F
A
A
F
F
So
see
that
as
it
may,
I
it
was
my
interpretation
and
then
further
in
the
documentation
from
the
city
there's
another
discussion
of
exterior
signs
which
simply
talks
to
new
signs
and
the
need
for
permits
in
a
little
bit
of
language
as
far
as
size
and
various
things,
but
again
at
no
time
did.
I
think
that
this
existing
thermal
king
sign
would
be
removed.
F
As
for
the
comment
on
the
full
width
monument
sign
up
to
22
feet
tall,
I
think
most
of
the
time
you'll
find
that
those
signs
are
installed
in
multi-tenant
retail
applications,
where
there's
now
room
for
multiple
signs
on
one
or
both
sides
of
this
large
sign
that
can
go
from.
You
know
from
growling
clear
up
to
whatever
the
limitations
are
and
oftentimes.
They
are
back
lit
much
as
this
thermo
king
sign
is
currently
backlit
and
also
to
address
the
the
signage
on
the
building.
F
Even
in
today's
visibility,
if
you
drive
either
direction
on
the
ramp
off-ramp
the
adjacent-
I
don't
know
if
it's
65,
I
believe
there,
even
with
the
trees
there.
It's
it's
somewhat
difficult
to
see
that
sign
in
the
daylight,
although
at
night
it's
easier
because
again
it's
illuminated
so
the
importance
of
it
being
there
with
the
logo
is
critical
to
to
defining
where
that
trucker
might
go,
and
hopefully
before
he
goes
past
the
off
ramp
in
either
direction
of
that.
F
I
F
F
H
No,
I
think
kevin
sums
up
pretty
well,
I
just
you
know
as
the
ownership
of
this
facility
and
property.
You
know
we
just
put
in
a
between
buying
the
extra
lot
next
door
and
kind
of
cleaning
that
cleaning
that
all
up
and
taking
kind
of
what
was
an
eyesore
there,
putting
up
the
construction
edition
of
our
new
building
a
new
shop
there.
You
know
we've
got
quite
an
investment
there
and
we
definitely
need
to
keep
drawing
our
essential
truck
driving
traffic
into
that
facility.
H
A
A
A
E
Far
as
the
board
here,
I
have
a
question:
go
ahead,
justin.
Thank
you.
It's
my
understanding.
What
the
what's
being
suggested
by
staff
is
that
they
could
still
have
a
sign
there.
It
would
just
be
kind
of
in
a
different
form,
and
so
I
guess
to
the
applicant
I'm
wondering
would
that
suffice
or
are
they
saying
that
the
new
new
type
of
sign
would
be
still
detrimental
to
their
business.
H
I
don't
it
may
suffice.
The
problem
is,
is
it's
it's
a
huge
investment
number
one
that
we
already
have
an
investment
there
and
it
doesn't
really
from
what
I'm
hearing
and
I
don't
I
just
somebody-
can
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
from
what
I'm
hearing
it's
going
to
accomplish
the
same
thing
it's
going
to
have
a
different
look,
but
to
kevin's
point
we
don't
need
that
different.
Look,
we
don't
need
to
add
a
bunch
of
different
other.
You
know
logos
on
there.
We
just
strictly
need
that
thermoking
logo.
That's
hanging
out
there
right
now.
E
E
A
A
All
right,
okay,
if
there's
nobody
else
to
speak
in
support,
do
I
have
anybody
to
speak
in
opposition
would
be
the
same
sign
if
the
participant
ray's
hand
in
the
zoom
app
or
hit
star
9
on
your
phone.
If
you'd
like
to
speak
in
opposition
to
the
applicant's
request
to
retain
the
poll
sign
and
going
once
going
twice.
A
J
Chair
members
of
the
board,
this
is
sue
and
donovan.
I
was
having
trouble
with
finding
my
mute
button.
Sorry
suanne
go
ahead,
all
right,
my
bad.
I
would,
at
this
point
state
that
I
think
we
have
really
tried
hard
as
staff
to
make
sure
that
we
honor
the
commitment
of
the
city
council
and
eliminate
poll
signs
in
the
city.
I
think
there
is
an
opportunity
that
for
them
to
put
up
a
sign
that
will
serve
their
purposes
without
having
it
to
be
having
it
be
a
poll
sign.
A
A
A
D
Yes,
I
don't
see
a
real
big
issue
with
allowing
them
to
keep
the
pulse
sign
the
come
and
go
sign
right
next
to
them
is
a
full
sign
and
the
location
of
this
business,
and
this
sign
is
pretty
far
away
from
any
residential
streets.
I
mean
it's,
it's
pretty
set
back,
it's
pretty
far
set
back.
I
they've
already
they've
invested
a
lot
of
money
in
in
improving
that
area
and
trying
to
upgrade
what
they've
got
there.
D
D
C
C
I
don't
have
super
strong
feelings
about
the
aesthetics
of
pole
signs
and
maybe
like
a
preference
for
monument
signs,
but
but
clearly
the
city
council
has,
you
know,
staked
out
a
pretty
absolute
position
on
it,
and
I
think
it's
I
just,
I
think
we're.
I
guess
where
I'm
at
is.
I
don't
view
the
applicant
as
having
met
variance
test.
A
I'll
go
ahead
and
throw
in
here
as
as
as
well,
then
I
I
very
much
was
a
supporter
of
the
ordinance
to
bring
our
scale
of
signs
down
to
scale.
In
fact,
I
served
on
the
board
of
adjustment
when
we
did
ask
the
city
council
to
consider
a
ordinance
to
better,
regulate
and
prevent
the
proliferation
of
pole
signs.
A
A
A
Here
we
have
city
staff
advocating
for
an
exception
to
allow
for
a
monument
signed
that
would
be
much
taller
than
allowed,
but
that
monument
sign
in
essence
the
space
it
takes
out
the
the
view
it
blocks
the
square
area,
the
sign
would
be
would
be
much
much
larger
and
to
me
have
a
much
greater
impact
on
the
site
on
the
right-of-way
and
the
neighborhood
than
the
existing
pole
sign
does
now.
In
fact,
you
know
in
the
scope
and
scale
of
the
property
it's
actually
kind
of
small.
A
A
I
would
be
in
favor
of
allowing
them
to
retain
this
pull
sign.
Kind
of
that
is
as
an
as
is,
however,
if
the
sign
becomes
damaged
according
to
the
city,
ordinance
or
you
know,
they'd
want
to
take
it
down
on
their
own.
Then
they'd
have
to
comply
with
the
sign
ordinance
if
they
chose
to
replace
it.
That's
just
part
of
the
regulation:
that's
the
way
I
understand
it
anyway,
but
those
are
just
my
thoughts,
so
we've
we've
got
kind
of
both
sides
of
the
aisle
here.
D
K
A
A
C
A
Okay
and
again,
as
I
said,
it
always
takes
four
votes
to
grant
a
variance
or
any
appeals,
so
the
motion
does
not
pass.
I
would
encourage
you
guys
to
really
sit
down
and
talk
with
city
staff
on
what
the
options
can
be
in
either
again
dealing
with
that
sign.
Do
we
have
the
option
since
that
motion
in
essence
didn't
pass?
A
B
A
So
guys
it
looks
like
you
have
a
consolation
prize
here
may
not
be
a
prize
you
want
to
receive,
but
I
think
that's
the
best
that
this
board
can
do
for
you
here
today.
So
I
encourage
you
to
work
with
city
staff
when
that
decision
and
order
comes
out
and
they
can
help
clarify
how
that
decision
will
apply
and
then
what
your
options
are.
A
L
Mr
chair
members
of
the
board,
catherine
dostart
planner
for
the
city
of
des
moines,
as
mentioned
this
is
a
item
looking
as
a
conditional
use
permit.
It
is
located
at
2121
martin
luther
king
jr
parkway,
and
they
are
looking
to
allow
sales
of
alcoholic
liquor,
wine
and
beer
with
no
more
than
40
percent
of
gross
receipts
from
those
sales.
L
I
L
L
L
M
L
L
L
A
H
A
N
We
first
of
all
we
would
like
to
thank
you
for
considering
our
request.
We
operate
the
store
on
6th
avenue.
We
were
in
front
of
you
about
a
year
and
a
half
ago
and
we
got
approval
there
and
since
then,
we've
had
a
successful
run,
we're
an
integrated
part
of
our
communities
and
now
we're
moving
on
to
this
location,
we're
very
involved
in
the
neighborhoods.
We
regularly
attend
neighborhood
meetings.
N
N
N
Many
people
in
the
neighborhoods
there's
no
grocery
stores
closed,
so
they
come
to
us
for
all
of
their
needs
and
we're
just
trying
to
trying
to
provide
that
for
them
as
well.
As
you
know,
make
a
living
myself
and
my
partner
merle.
We
operate
the
stores
ourselves.
We
regularly
learn
work
at
the
counters,
we're
in
the
stores
every
day
and
we're
you
know
we're
a
big
part
of
the
community.
A
O
Basically,
what
eric
had
said
is
pretty
well
addresses
everything.
I
would
like
to
point
out
that
we
have
five
or
six
employees
at
sixth
avenue,
all
of
which
are
from
the
neighborhood,
so
we
we
feel
like
we're.
You
know
providing
opportunities
for
our
neighborhood
as
well,
but
eric's
pretty
much
touched
based
on
every
other
point
that
I
would
make.
A
N
A
N
Yes,
so
we
leased
both
of
these
locations
at
the
same
time
and
then
we're
we're
okay,
with
all
the
conditions
that
the
staff
has
recommended,
they're,
basically,
the
same
as
what
we
have
on
sixth
avenue,
it's
been
working
pretty.
Well,
we
don't
have
any
problems.
We've
we've
cleaned
up
all
these
locations.
N
A
Okay,
seeing
none
then
thank
you,
gentlemen,
for
your
testimony.
I
will
go
ahead
and
see
if
there's
anybody
in
the
audience
here
who
would
like
to
speak
in
support
of
your
request.
If
anybody
would
like
to
speak
in
support,
they
can
have
up
to
five
minutes.
Just
need
you
to
use
the
raise
hand
icon
if
you're
participating
on
the
computer
with
zoom
or
hit
star
nine
on
your
phone
be
asked
to
be
recognized,
so
anybody
that
wishes
to
speak
and
support.
A
A
J
D
B
Sure
good
question
this
is
bert
drost
the
conditional
use
permit
does
run
with
the
land.
However,
if
you
look
at
condition
number
15
we've
tried
to
address
that.
We
said
any
business
selling
alcoholic
liquor,
wine
or
beer
should
operate
with
an
owner
operator
model
where
the
owners
of
the
business
runs
the
day-to-day
operations
of
the
business.
B
A
A
A
N
A
B
E
Gross
I'd
just
like
to,
I
guess,
say
that
I
think
they
have
a
good
history
with
the
neighborhoods
that
they're
in
and
they
have
support,
obviously
from
the
neighborhood
associations
and
and
other
organizations
in
the
neighborhoods,
and
since
they
are
in
agreement
to
follow
the
conditions
set
forth
by
the
staff.
I
would
I
guess
I
would
move
to
to
approve
staff
recommendation.
A
A
B
A
P
The
request
requires
three
variances
that
you
see
listed
on
the
agenda:
a
variance
to
the
provision
that
requires
any
freestanding
sign
to
be
a
monument
sign,
variance
of
the
that
would
allow
one
free
standing
sign
over
the
maximum
allowed
zero
free
standing
signs
allowed
for
a
bed
and
breakfast
used
in
the
nx2
district.
So
we're
dealing
with
a
bed
breakfast
and
a
new
owner
continuing
use.
I
think
when
you
see
the
pictures,
you'll
recognize
the
property
and
then
the
last
variance
is
of
since
there's
no
allotment
for
signage.
P
P
This
is
a
little
pulled
back,
a
little
larger
area
map.
I
just
thought
this
might
be
of
assistance
in
thinking
about
the
different
uses
in
the
area.
There's
a
variety
of
residential
uses
of
different
scales
and
sizes,
a
mixture
of
nx2.
Actually,
you
can
see
most
of
the
area
along
grand
is
zoned
nx2,
some
nxt
east
photograph
of
the
subject
property
from
grand
avenue.
As
you
approach
it,
you
can
see
the
start
to
see
the
building
through
the
trees
there
on
the
right
more
of
a
straightforward
shot.
There
is
a
small
sign.
P
P
Okay,
you
pack,
it
you
had
a
copy
of
the
staff
report,
I'll
go
ahead
and
jump
to
the
staff
recommendation,
and
then
we
can
kind
of
sort
through
the
rest
of
the
material
we,
as
staff
are
recommending
denial
of
the
variants
for
the
monument
sign
leaf.
We
believe
that
monument
sign
style
sign
can't
be
constructed
here.
P
P
P
There's
a
maximum
area
of
24
square
feet
for
those,
and
so
we
feel
that
there's
kind
of
some
comparable
needs
and
are
basing
our
recommendation
for
24
square
feet
on
that.
We
do
have
some
other
conditions
you
can
see
listed
in
there
just
how
to
go
about
constructing
the
sign,
making
sure
that
the
base
generally
matches
the
building
with
brick
and
then
also
getting
a
permit
and
signed
contractor
very
standard
language.
P
Okay,
I
won't
go
you
know
read
through,
but
just
in
case
the
applicant
needs
to
refer
to
these
next
few
slides
I'll,
flip
them
quick.
These
are
here.
This
is
just
language,
they
included
or
their
rationale
in
their
application.
We
have
some
additional
photographs
that
they
provided,
showing
the
property
we
can
come
back
to
these.
Some
of
them
have
notes
on
them
that
I'm
imagining
they'll
need
for
their.
P
I
P
A
P
A
I
M
B
I
P
Happy
to
answer
any
questions
I
just
want
to.
You
know
reiterate
that
that
we
think
they
have
unnecessary
hardship
in
identifying
their
business,
given
the
size
of
the
property
and
the
speed
and
volume
of
traffic
on
grand
avenue.
When
you
looked
at
those
pictures
that
I
showed
on
the
road
curves
as
well,
making
it
challenging
to
see
that
smaller
sign,
that's
there
today
and
then
also
highlight
that
right
now,
the
way
the
zoning
code
is
written.
P
P
P
A
A
Q
Q
Historically,
I
think,
since
the
late
80s
this
has
the
use
on
this
property
has
been
a
traditional
bed
and
breakfast
to
our
knowledge.
It's
the
only
one
in
the
area
and
today
we're
obviously
asking
for
a
sign
variance
for
that
bed
and
breakfast
jason.
Is
it
possible
to
go
to
our
design
that
you
should
you
showed
a
little
earlier
yeah
happy
to
do
so?
Okay,
thank
you.
Q
Q
We
think
that
iowa
sign
company
has
done
a
good
job
here,
creating
a
tasteful
and
attractive
sign
that
really
lends
itself
to
identifying
a
historic
bed
and
breakfast
with
you
know
it's
it's
common
name
locally
as
the
butler
house,
and
we
agree
with
the
staff
report
and
jason
earlier.
When
we
talk
about
you
know
what
is
the
hardship
here?
Q
Obviously
a
sign
doesn't
if
it's
too
small
will
not
serve
the
intended
purpose
of
of
allowing
you
to
find
it
or
to
identify
what
what
the
sign
is
showing
and
so
the
the
sign
you
can
see,
there's
a
little
sign
out
there
and
I
think
that's
a
perfect
example
of
a
sign
that
that
is
too
small
kind
of
defeats.
The
purpose
of
having
a
sign
at
all.
So
when
we
go
through
this
three,
so
I
think
we've
identified
the
hardship
which
is
simply
identification.
Q
We
go
through
the
three-step
test
here.
We
believe
that
that,
right
now
in
its
existing
state,
you
know
we're
losing
beneficial
and
productive
use
because
of
people's
failure
to
identify
this
property
and
the
fact
that
it,
it
is
different
from
surrounding
properties,
the
unique
circumstances,
which
is
the
second
element.
Q
This
part
of
town,
obviously
you
know,
is
a
beautiful
kind
of
historic
area,
and
we
think
that
this
kind
of
a
historic
use
you
know
fits
right
into
the
neighborhood
and
and
a
sign
will,
you
know,
only
enhance
its
its
visibility
and
people's
ability
to
find
it.
So,
that's
you
know
just
kind
of
walking
through
those
elements
with
you
but
to
to
end
here,
and
then
I
guess,
if
I
have
any
additional
time
and
if
cheryl's
on
and
she
wants
to
say
anything,
I
would
give
that
to
to
cheryl
the
owner.
Q
But
basically
the
city
has
has
recommended
a
monument
sign,
that's
a
little
smaller.
We
would
ask.
I
think
that
they're
they're
recommending
a
24
square
foot
monument
sign.
We
are
asking
for
what
you're
looking
at
now
this
design,
which
is
29.56
square
feet.
It's
not
that
much
bigger
than
what
the
city
is
proposing,
but
we
do
think
we
need
that
much
signage.
Q
And-
and
we
think
you
know
there
are
going
to
be
a
lot
of
guests
to
the
site
that
have
maybe
never
been
to
des
moines
before
never
been
to
this
part
of
town,
maybe
coming
for
a
one-time,
only
business
trip
or
something
and
really
just
it-
will
help
them
to
identify
the
site
and
the
fact
that
it's
it's
their
bed
and
breakfast.
So
with
that,
I
will
give
any
remaining
time.
I
have
to
cheryl
moore
and
happy
to
answer
any
questions
from
the
board
and,
yes,.
K
K
Thank
you
and
thank
you
to
the
board.
I
really
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
present
this
to
you
for
your
consideration,
and
I
appreciate
you
hearing
me
out:
I'm
a
national
expert
on
life
insurance
and
annuities.
My
husband
is
a
home
builder,
who
has
been
tied
to
the
community
for
more
than
two
decades
in
building,
but
we
also
buy
distressed
houses
and
fix
them
up,
make
them
look
nice
in
the
community
and
then
rent
them
out.
K
K
Regarding
that
potential
acquisition,
I
have
driven
by
that
house
literally
every
day
of
the
school
year
and
never
seen
it
for
more
than
three
years
now.
I
will
grant
you
that
it
was
formerly
obstructed
quite
a
bit
by
evergreen
bushes,
which
we
have
done
a
lot
to
clear
up
the
front
and
make
it
more
visible
and
help
add
to
the
aesthetic
appeal
of
the
community.
K
So
I
would
say
it's
a
very
strange
lot
situation
in
terms
of
parking
and
accessibility
and
we
plan
to
make
some
changes
to
that
with
the
board's
approval
in
future
years.
But
for
now
I
just
need
for
people
to
know
that
we're
here
what
we
are
and
that
they're
in
the
right
place,
if
they're
not
familiar
with
us.
So
I
greatly
appreciate
your
consideration:
I'm
not
trying
to
cause
any
undue
burden
on
anyone,
but
you
know
we
are
a
commercial
business.
K
We
have
been
run
as
such
since
the
80s
there
is
a
strip
mall,
that's
located.
Just
a
couple
of
properties
down
from
me
and,
of
course,
the
art
centers
across
the
street,
so
what
I'm
trying
to
do
is
peacefully
get
something
that
is
in
the
spirit
of
my
hundred-year-old,
tudor
english
home
and
maybe
not
so
consistent
with
a
new
construction
business
property
and
that's
why
I'm
making
the
appeal
to
you
at
this
time.
Thank
you.
A
K
I'm
happy
to
address
that
my
husband
and
I
have
worked
in
real
estate,
investing
in
him
in
the
construction
industry
for
about
25
years,
and
I
first
of
all
did
try
and
make
an
attempt
to
find
brick
that
would
match
my
house
to
accommodate
that
monument
style.
But
ultimately,
what
we
found
would
not
match
this
100
year
old,
brick
and
nothing
would
even
come
close.
And
when
I
got
the
mock-ups
from
the
des
moines
sign
company.
K
They
looked
like
a
new
construction
sign
to
me,
and
I
understand
that
it
is
a
sign,
that's
being
newly
constructed,
but
it's
for
a
100
year
old,
english,
tutor
home,
and
so
I'm
trying
to
make
it
look
more
in
the
character
and
the
branding
of
our
property
rather
than
like
a
new
construction
business.
And
that
was
my
motivation
for
asking
for
the
pull
sign.
A
A
B
A
A
A
M
M
I
look
forward
to
meeting
my
new
neighbors,
but
this
came
as
a
complete
surprise
to
me
and
I
have
to
oppose
their
application.
You
have
my
letter,
you
had
it
up
on
the
screen
a
while
ago.
Grand
avenue
in
this
vicinity
is
not
a
commercial
street.
It's
an
attractive
residential
street
with
the
des
moines
arts
center
grounds.
On
the
opposite
sides
side.
M
M
That's
nearly
15
times
the
surface
area
of
the
current
one
by
two
foot
sign
which
my
memory
tells
me
was
actually
the
result
of
a
of
a
prior
variance
or
something
because
I
remember
receiving
a
mailing
from
the
city
regarding
it
and
I
responded.
I
did
not
oppose
that
and
it's
twice
the
surface
area
of
the
art
center
sign
across
the
street,
which
serves
much
larger
and
public
grounds
and
structures
which
have
a
similar
topography
to
the
one
that
that
that
that
that
the
applicant
and
her
attorney
have
been
describing.
M
M
M
As
the
staff
recommendation
concludes,
the
applicant's
proposal
does
not
meet
either
of
these
requirements
and
therefore
cannot
legally
be
granted.
If
I'm
reading
it
correctly.
However,
the
staff
goes
on
to
say
that
if
this
property
had
16
or
more
household
dwellings,
then
the
ordinance
would
permit
a
24
square
foot
sign.
So
therefore
it
would
be
okay
if
you
granted
a
variance
for
a
24
square
foot
sign.
M
M
The
other
requirements
for
a
variance
are
also
not
met.
The
staff
recommendation
does
not
identify
circumstances
that
show
that
the
plight
of
the
property
owner
is
unique
to
this
property.
It
only
references
the
same
flight
of
any
property
owner.
That's
not
permitted
a
freestanding
sign
under
the
ordinance,
as
I
mentioned
at
the
outside
outset.
The
sign
would
also
be
out
of
character
with
the
with
the
neighborhood
okay.
A
All
right,
mr
graziano,
I
thank
you
for
your
your
testimony
and
certainly
for
your
honesty,
which
we
certainly
do
expect
from
everyone.
This
is
considered
a
quasi-judicial
hearing.
We
certainly
expect
people
to
be
truthful
with
our
hearing
requirements,
but
the
hearing
process
is
generally
determined
by
iowa
law.
I
don't
believe
that
it
requires
people
to
be
quote
sworn
in.
A
A
A
A
P
J
Yes,
I
do
chair
members
of
the
board
suanne
donovan,
deputy
deputy
zoning
enforcement
officer
for
the
city
of
des
moines.
I
think
several
things
I
don't
often
say
that
I'm
not
in
support
of
staff
recommendations,
but
I
agree
with
the
previous
speaker.
I'm
not
sure
I
quite
understand
that
the
connection
between
a
bed
and
breakfast
and
a
multi-family
for
signage
purposes.
J
J
P
So
our
effort
was
to
look
at
something
of
in
that
that
would
be
allowed
in
that
district
of
a
certain
scale
that
would
be
comparable
and
use
that
as
a
cross
reference.
It's
not
to
make
a
case
that
the
bed
and
breakfast
is
a
multi-family
use.
It
was.
It
was
merely
to
provide
a
baseline
for
what
would
be
an
appropriate
size
in
that
district.
Looking
at
other
things
allowed
in
that
district.
C
Yeah,
I
got
a
question
for
jason.
This
is
nathan
blake
I
mean
shouldn't
the
read
then
be
you
know,
city
council
pass
this
zoning
law
and
they
allow
science
in
some
instances
for
some
situations
and
they
allow
certain
uses
and
then
don't
allow
signs
pretty
explicitly
for
other
uses
like
bed
and
breakfasts.
I
just
I
am
not
seeing.
C
I
understand
this,
the
sizing
thing,
but
I
I
guess
I'm
I'm
having
a
tough
time,
along
with
sue,
ann
and
and
mr
graziano,
like
trying
to
figure
out
what
the
justification
is
and
how
this
request
meets.
The
variance
test
at
all,
I
think,
makes
imminent
sense
to
me
at
some
level,
but
that's
not
really.
What
our
charge
is.
The
request
makes
sense.
It
just
doesn't
seem
to
meet
the
legal
requirement.
C
It
ended
up
being
more
of
a
statement,
but
I
am
interested
in
hearing
a
little
more
development
of
the
staffs
I
mean
because
we
are
always
charged
even
if
we're,
if
we're
ever
voting
for
a
variance.
We
really
need
to
be
explicit
about
how
it
meets
all
of
the
factors,
and
I
think
I'm
comfortable
enough
that
it
fits
in
to
the
neighborhood
sufficiently.
I
think
we
could
probably
design
something
or
restrict
it
in
some
way
that
it
does,
and
I
don't
think
it's
neces.
P
P
So
I
mean
I'm
I'll,
I'm
happy
to
read
to
you
what
what
we
wrote
in
the
the
the
last
paragraph
is:
the
applicant
faces
an
unnecessary
hardship
and
identifying
their
business,
given
the
size
of
the
property,
the
speed
and
volume
of
traffic
and
ground
avenue.
The
plight
of
the
owner
is
due
to
unique
circumstance
related
specifically
to
the
subject
property.
P
A
Q
Thank
you.
This
is
daniel
manning
jr
again
for
the
applicant
cheryl.
I'm
going
to
take
this
one,
because
we've
had
some
legal
questions
that
have
come
up.
Obviously,
mr
graziano
went
through
the
three-part
test.
I
went
through
the
three-part
test
and
I'm
hearing
mr
blake
have
some
questions
about
the
three-part
test,
so
I
don't
think
there
can
be
any
denial
that
this
is
a
unique
property
with
a
unique
use
off
of
grand
avenue
in
des
moines.
So
I
think
that
that
box
is
checked.
Q
It's
a
bed
and
breakfast
the
sec,
the
second
or
I
might
get
these
wrong
in
the
their
order.
But
in
order
for
this
bed
and
breakfast
to
function
and
be
able
to
exist
as
a
bed
and
breakfast,
it
needs
to
be
identifiable
off
of
grain.
I
think
we've
demonstrated
why
that's
important
and
why
this
property
is
hard
to
identify,
and
I
believe
that
speaks
to
the
productive
use
of
the
subject.
Property
element
that
we've
already
discussed.
Q
The
last
part
that
mr
blake
was
talking
about
is
how
it
doesn't
alter
the
essential
character
of
the
area.
The
property
itself
is
in
in
line
with
the
surrounding
properties,
and
that's
part
of
the
challenge
is:
how
do
we
distinguish
or
identify
this
bed
and
breakfast
from
surrounding
properties
that
are
built
of
similar
brick
and
style
as
this
property,
and
the
way
that
we
that
we
do,
that
is
with
the
sign?
Q
The
signage
is,
is
essential
to
for
this
business
to
function
at
this
location,
and
I
believe
that
we've
we've
shown
we've
proven
each
of
the
three
elements
and
we
agree
with
the
city's
analysis
of
the
hardship
in
this
case.
That's
I'll
leave
it
at
that.
Thank
you
to
the
board
and
the
staffs,
including
sue,
ann
donovan
and
bert
drost,
who
are
always
great
to
work
with,
and
thank
you
for
your
time.
A
E
E
Mr
chair,
this
is
justin
gross,
go
ahead,
justin
yeah.
My
initial
thought
is
that
I
mean
after
hearing
from
both
the
applicant-
and
you
know
mr
graziano,
who
is
in
opposition,
I
mean,
and
then
some
comments
by
blake
is
is,
I
think,
the
is
still
a
high
burden
to
prove
and
the
first
factors
the
language
is.
E
D
D
A
I'll
just
go
ahead
and
throw
in
here
too
everybody
on
this
board
thinks,
through
the
issues
and
as
citizens
of
the
city.
That's
the
task
we
have
been
given,
and
everybody
does
a
great
job
of
that.
In
essence,
if
everybody
complied
with
the
zoning
ordinances,
there
wouldn't
need
to
be
a
board
of
adjustment.
So
any
case
in
front
of
us
wants
to
do
something
different
than
what
the
regulations
allow.
That's
just
a
given
therein.
A
It's
our
job
to
see
how
that
fits
into
the
intent
of
the
comprehensive
plan
of
the
city,
the
zoning
ordinance
and
the
requirements
they're
in
and
as
we
peel
the
layers
of
the
onion
here,
then
we
get
down
to
the
conditions
that
apply
to
exceptions
in
the
ordinance
or
variances
in
the
ordinance.
And,
yes,
the
test
gets
harder
and
harder,
especially
when
we
want
to
look
at
a
variant.
A
I
think
what
staff
was
trying
to
do
was
recognize
the
setting
of
the
property,
the
setting
of
not
only
the
business
there,
but
a
similar
business
had
been
occurring
there
in
the
past.
They
did
have
a
sign
granted.
It
was
quote
non-conforming,
so
I
I
generally
try
to
be
a
meet
in
the
middle
guy,
not
just
because
that's
my
personality,
but
I
like
to
find
a
way
where
it's
it's
like
consensus
building.
Everybody
gives
up
a
little
something,
but
nobody
gives
up
enough
that
they
feel
like
they've,
been
cheated
or
refused.
A
A
When
jason
van
essen
showed
us
the
first
picture,
I
thought
the
bed
and
breakfast
was
that
square
apartment
building,
I'm
like
what
the
heck,
what
size
of
building
is
this
thing
and
no
it
wasn't,
but
that
building
and
that
kind
of
exit
ramp
pit
row
driveway.
If,
if
he
will
draws
somebody
to
the
neighboring
building,
it
doesn't
draw
him
to
the
property
in
question.
A
I
could
see
within
reason
based
on
the
setting
of
the
property,
the
alignment
of
the
street.
It's
only
30
miles
an
hour,
but
it
is
a
four-lane
street.
It
carries
a
lot
of
traffic.
You
got
to
pay
attention
there.
It
would
be
reasonable
that
even
with
wave
finding
once
people
get
near
a
property
they
they
like
to
see
where
they
are
arriving
with
some
physical
recognition.
A
I
have
watched
my
friends
drive
by
properties
three
times
using
their
gps,
because
once
they
get
there,
it
wasn't
clear
that
they
had
arrived
by
any
notoriety
of
how
the
property
had
been
labeled,
but
I
do
think
the
applicant
is
a
little
bit
asking
to
take
a
mile
instead
of
give
an
inch
here
on
this.
I
don't
think
it's
appropriate
to
have
a
hole
signed
here,
I'm
not
an
architect,
but
I
have
a
degree
in
design
at
plenty
of
architecture,
courses
and
two-door
english
style.
A
So
I
believe,
there's
enough
reason
to
support
a
variance
here.
I
frankly,
though,
think
that
the
city's
4x6
24
square
feet.
In
my
opinion,
that's
a
little
large
I'd,
say
three
by
five
and
a
monument
sign
would
be
the
most
that
I
would
support
here,
but
based
on
the
comments
we've
already
have
from
the
board
or
if
anybody
else
wants
to
comment.
If
somebody
wants
to
put
a
motion
forward,
we
can
entertain
a
motion
one
way
or
the
other
and
see
what
sticks.
A
A
Yeah,
so
the
motion
was
for
denial
so
that
motion
does
carry.
I
don't
know
if
there's
any
other
options
here.
If
anybody
wants
to
put
another
motion
out,
I
think
they
can.
If
there
is
no
other
motion,
then
the
issue's
been
decided
so
I'll.
Just
I'll
just
ask:
are
there
any
other
motions,
since
we
do
have
a
denial
on
the
variance.
A
It
have
to
be
a
new
motion
for
a
new
consideration
and
if
there
are
none,
that's
fine
I'll
just
say
going
once
going
twice:
okay,
there
are
no
other
motions
on
the
table
for
review
of
this
item,
so
staff
recommendation
has
been
denied.
The
variance
is
not
granted
so
that
include
concludes
item
number
10..
We
have
a
little
business
to
take
care
of
from
last
month.