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From YouTube: 11-4-21 Plan & Zoning Commission
Description
Des Moines Plan & Zoning Commission meeting on Thursday, November 4, 2021.
View the agenda: https://DSM.city/PZatHome
A
B
Good
morning,
commission
members
I'm
here
to
present
on
the
douglas
avenue
urban
renewal
plan.
Let's
see
if
I
get
this
computer
to
work
here
right
for
me,
there
we
go.
This
is
an
area.
That's
been
looked
at
for
quite
a
while
with
a
number
of
different
groups.
The
douglas
avenue
coalition
was
formed
in
2015
by
residents
to
look
at
what
was
going
on
in
the
area
with
business
owners
and
things
that's
kind
of
the
ball
rolling
in
2016,
with
the
adoption
of
the
city
of
planned
dsm.
B
The
city's
comprehensive
land
use
plan
identified
some
areas
in
this
in
douglas
avenue
corridor.
That
could
be
changed
over
to
a
little
bit
more
exciting
development.
If
you
will
and
then
in
2020,
the
douglas
avenue
quarter
plan
was
adopted
by
the
city
council
and
that's
a
2.4
mile
stretch
from
the
river
on
the
east,
all
the
way
to
merle
hay
mall
on
the
west
and
it's
a
very
large
and
very
long,
but
also
very
linear
area.
B
B
C
B
Of
the
area
that
we
came
up
with,
it
is
the
commercial
core,
if
you
will,
from
the
river
up
to
lower
beaver
road,
the
neighborhood
to
the
north
is
lower
beaver
and
the
neighborhood
to
the
south
is
prospect
park
to
establish
neighborhoods
that
are
they're
mature,
so
they're
established,
they're
stable.
However,
there's
a
commercial
core
that's
been
highlighted.
B
B
But
this
is
the
real
rubber
meeting
the
road
section
here
I
want
to
talk
about
it's
105
acres
in
size,
110
parcels
just
about
half
of
those
are
owned
by
the
city
or
the
state
in
regards
to
right-of-ways
little
slivers.
Here,
roads
there,
things
of
that
nature,
but
of
the
half
58
or
so
they're
left
over
half
of
those
have
a
property
value
where
the
land
assessed
value
is
greater
than
the
building
assessed
value,
that's
kind
of
upside
down
in
in
the
development
area
and
so
you're.
B
Seeing
that
there's
just
a
tremendous
amount
of
area,
that's
just
not
or
it
doesn't
have
a
lot
of
potential.
Actually
any
potential.
A
lot
going
on
right
now
is
a
lot
of
potential
for
the
future.
I
believe
most
of
the
buildings
were
built
between
the
50s
and
the
80s
and
as
identified
in
the
douglas
avenue
corridor
plan,
the
area
struggles
with
vacancy
rates,
business
turnover,
property,
disinvestment
commercial
buildings
are
tired.
Obsolete
landscape
throughout
the
quarter
is
minimal.
Definitely
a
reflection
of
the
1950s
pattern.
That's
on
page
10
of
the
plan.
B
Well,
it
does
sound
like
it's
kind
of
dire
in
that
area.
There
are
some
really
good
things
that
need
to
be
addressed
and
enhanced
and
celebrated,
I
think,
and
as
the
vehicle
counts.
My
background
is
in
corporate
real
estate,
working
with
retailers
and
39
000
vehicles
per
day.
At
that
intersection
of
douglas
avenue
and
mlk
is
a
lot
of
vehicles
per
day,
and
then
you
go
over
to
lower
beaver
road.
It's
almost
28
000
vehicles
per
day.
That's
those
are
healthy
numbers,
and
so
there
is.
C
B
Lot
of
good
there
and
then,
of
course,
you
have
the
established
neighborhoods
to
the
north
and
the
south,
but
because
of
those
land
values
being
upside
down
through
the
majority
of
the
commercial
corridor.
That's
the
real
problem
that
we
want
to
try
to
solve
and
try
to
find
a
way
to
create,
to
have
an
urban
renewal
plan,
an
area
which
allows
us
to
use
tiff
to
incentivize
development,
especially
since
we've
had
somebody
take
a
look
at
the
plaza
lane
site
they
backed
away
back
in
about
may,
because
building
costs
were
going
bananas.
B
B
There's
a
lot
of
different
bullet
points
on
here,
I'm
not
going
to
walk
through
all
of
them,
because
I
could
probably
go
crazy
on
them.
But
I
would
like
to
talk
about
is
that
we
believe
this
is
appropriate
for
economic
development
and
demonstration
of
slum
and
blight.
As
far
as
the
two
different
designations
for
urban
renewal
plan
and
tiff,
we
see
that
the
increase
or
an
increase
in
the
residential
opportunities
in
the
area.
We
see
that
there's
a
need
for
that
in
this
area,
and
not
just.
B
B
B
Of
small
businesses
in
the
area,
it
does
not
mean
that
we
want
to
run
them
out
by
any
stretch
of
the
imagination.
It
means
we
want
to
also
help
them
remain
and
expand.
These
are
small
businesses
that
did
take
a
gamble
and
they
invested
in
our
communities.
We
want
to
make
sure
that,
as
we
go
through
the
incentives,
incentivizing
new
development
redevelopment,
we
also
have
an
opportunity
to
save
and
promote
the
small
businesses
that
are
in
the
area
and,
of
course,
working
on
the
removal
or
redevelopment
of
blighted,
obsolete
and
underutilized
properties
in
the
area.
B
B
This
is
a
2.4
mile
corridor
of
the
douglas
avenue
corridor
plan
and
by
breaking
it
up
into
small
nodes,
we
believe
we
have
much
better
chance
at
creating
some
real
development
and
having
an
impact
in
the
areas
of
where
we
are
merle.
Hay
is
doing
well
in
the
west.
We're
going
to
start
this
one
on
the
east
and
eventually
maybe
a
third
one,
at
beaver,
road
and
and
douglas
at
that
intersection.
B
We
also
feel
that
this
would
be
a
bookend
establishing
the
eastern
side
of
the
corridor
and
playing
off
and
enhancing
encapsulating
what's
going
on
in
world
hay,
but
we
also
want
to
talk
about
the
fact
that
we
want
to
embrace
and
enhance
and
respect
the
neighborhoods
that
are
to
the
north
and
to
the
south
of
this
corridor
by
incentivizing
development.
We
we
view
is
this
needs
to
engage
those
neighborhoods,
not
just
plop
up
a
commercial
building.
B
B
Let's
see
here
and
then
talking
about
the
urban
renewal
plan
and
how
it
fits
with
the
city's
comprehensive
land
use
plan,
foster
economic
prosperity
and
stability
by
retaining
existing
businesses
and
recruiting
new
businesses.
That's
the
goal
number
one
for
under
economic
development,
very
happy
that
we
were
able
to
address
that.
B
B
G
B
Well,
I'm
not
allowed
to
play
an
engineer,
not
even
on
tv,
but
I
really
don't
know
how
to
answer
that
question,
because
I
don't
I'm
not
involved
with
that
one
of
the
things
that
we
are
looking
at
doing
this
winter
prior
to
the
holidays
and
then
after
the
holidays
is
meeting
with
the
highland
park.
Oh
the
highland
park
area
businesses
and
ask
them
what's
going
on.
How
did
you
like
it?
B
How
did
it
work
for
you
because
to
me
that
that's
really
the
real
reason
why
that
happened
with
the
traffic
calming
and
called
the
road
diet,
whatever
it's
trying
to
try
to
slow
down
and
also
provide
some
parking?
That's
my
take
I've
been
here
since
max
since
march,
but
I'd
like
to
understand
what
they
saw
because
they're
the
ones
living
it
every
single
day.
H
H
D
And
I,
if
I
could
chime
in,
I
think
part
of
the
beauty
of
it
is
this-
is
a
trial
run
to
see,
see
how
it
functions
and
give
it
enough
time
in
a
trial
period
where
we
can
move
past
people
adjusting,
because
there's
always
that
initial
adjustment
period,
where
people
are
it's
new,
it's
different.
You
got
to
give
a
little
bit
of
time.
Let
it
work
for
a
while
and
then
start
to
evaluate
you
know:
is
this
working
working
or
is
it
not?
D
D
The
the
item
that
we're
presenting
here
for
the
530
is
item
number
it's
related
to
item
one
on
the
agenda
tonight
on
the
consent
agenda
for
the
the
commission
is
charged
with
finding
if
the
renewal
plan
is
in
conformance
with
planned,
dsm.
The
city's
comprehensive
plan
so
just
wanted
to
point
that
out
make
sure
that
we
saw
the
correlation.
So
if
you
had
questions
on
item
one,
this
would
really
be
the
time
that
we're
hoping
you
can
ask
those
questions.
I
J
Yeah,
you
spoke
earlier
about
how
the
the
aim
is
not
to
push
small
businesses
out
of
that
area
who
have
who
have
decided
to
open
there
and
invest
in
their
community.
What
are
some
of
the
things
that
will
be
utilized
or
that
the
city
can
utilize
to
incentivize
them
to
stay
or
prevent
them
from
being
pushed
out.
B
That's
a
great
question:
by
use
by
having
an
urban
renewal
plan
being
able
to
offer
a
tif
for
the
property
owner,
they
want
to
redevelop
and
enhance
their
property.
There's
probably
possibility
there
that
we
can
work
on
something
along
those
lines.
There's
commercial,
I
believe,
there's
commercial
tax
abatement,
I'm
still
not
not
clear,
with
all
my
my
maps
that
I
have,
but
so
far
as
working
with
the
small
businesses
themselves,
I'd
probably
want
to
engage.
I
know
it's
outside
the
realm.
I
really
like
working
with
invest
dsms
and
the
programs
that
they
have.
B
K
Sort
of
a
follow-up
to
this
in
a
few
ways-
I
guess
obviously
with
the
plan
dsm
vision
statement-
includes
an
objective
to
have
sustainable
government
that
recognizes
policies
have
impacts
on
quality
of
life.
I'm
assuming
this
is
right
up
that
alley
right.
So
we're
saying
we're
going
to
hopefully
use
tiff
as
an
incentive
to
ensure
we're
going
to
have
a
better
community.
That
is,
you
know,
any
investment
we
make
in
des
moines
returns
value
to
des
moines
right
tiff.
K
Typically
in
cities
like
ours,
historically
produces
an
equitable
returns
from
their
investments,
for
example
the
come
and
go
building
when
it
moved
downtown.
It's
not
clear
that
its
residents
who
pay
taxes
are
paying
taxes
to
des
moines
schools,
they're,
paying
taxes
to
walking
schools,
they're
paying
for
trash
and
fire
in
waukee
schools.
K
There
are
ways
within
tiff.
Without
being
you
know,
without
changing
the
law
of
how
tiff
works
that
we
can
put
residency
requirements
on,
we
can
put
other
types
of
programs,
you
know
and
strategies
on
that
are
going
to
either
avoid
or
minimize
that
traditional
inequity,
like
I
mean
dmu,
just
left
right.
K
How
much
investment
do
we
put
in?
For
how
much
we
got
left,
what
did
waukee
put
in
here?
What
did
west
des
moines
put
in?
I
know
the
doctors
are
moving
west
already
anyway,
but
you
know
what
are
we
doing
in
this
plan
to
ensure
those
type
of
historic
investment?
Inequities
are
not
repeated
in
this
tif
driven
investment
strategy.
B
Well,
I
can't
answer
by
the
come
and
go
buildings.
I
don't
know
specifics
on
all
of
it,
but
it's
a
commercial
building
and
there
are
residents
living
there
most
likely.
What
we're
going
to
acquire
or
pursue
in
this
area
are
going
to
be
some
housing
options
with
commercial.
On
the
first
floor,
that's
what
we'd
like
to
see.
B
We
think
that
that
fits
really
really
well
now
that
an
equity
piece-
yes
tiffany-
may
be
generated
and
used
to
bring
a
developer
in
who's,
going
to
do
a
mixed-use
development,
but
the
residents
of
that
building
pay
that
real
estate
tax
through
the
rent,
and
so
they
are
actually
been.
You
know,
receiving
the
benefit.
B
If
you
will
of
new
housing
in
that
area,
we
are
going
to
see
the
benefit
of
new
businesses
coming
to
the
area,
and
if
are
you
asking
me
to
put
in
stipulations
that
a
business
owner
must
reside
in
the
city
of
des
moines,
in
order
to
receive
tiff
in
this
in
this
district?
Is
that
what
you're
asking
I'm
not
sure?
I'm.
K
Asking
for
the
plan,
are
you
saying,
there's
a
mandatory
amount
of
residential
required
in
any
commercial
investment
in
order
to
get
tiff
or
are
there
other
ways?
Okay?
So
because
I'm
trying
to
say
so,
the
taxes
that
support
my
trash
and
that
I
mean
we've
got
our
coverage
shot
to
the
county.
Today
it
was
awesome
every
time
I
use
a
city
or
county
service,
I'm
reminded
that
our
city
and
county
does
this
so
much
better
than
most.
If
you
haven't
lived
other
places,
you
don't
realize
how
great
a
job
you're
doing.
K
B
What
one
of
the
benefits
I've
worked
in
a
number
of
different
cities
in
north
carolina,
indiana,
illinois
and
now
iowa
and
there's
a
city
ordinance
that
states
that
the
city
will
not
use
more
than
75
of
the
increment
generated
for
development.
If
we
go
over
that
it
has
to
go
in
front
of
a
debt
review
committee,
that's
wonderful
that
there
are
things
like
this
in
place,
checks
and
balances
and
how
money
is
used
with
tiff
in
other
cities
it
was
five
times
what
was
generated
was
given
out.
It's
like
this
is
just
ridiculous.
B
Here,
it's
very
conservative,
and
so
we
always
make
sure
there's
always
a
little
bit
left
over
to
make
sure
that
okay,
are
we
going
to
be
over
or
not?
Do
we
have
money
left
over
in
case
there's
something
we
need
to
do
as
far
as
road
repair
or
anything
else
under
the
sun?
So
the
city
of
des
moines
has
a
really
good
system
in
place
to
make
sure
that
we
are
not
overextending
ourselves
in
any
way,
shape
or
form.
I'm
really
proud
of
that
fact.
B
B
They
may
say
we're
comfortable
with
90
or
80
or
at
the
75
percent
level,
all
the
the
tif
districts
that
we
have,
I
believe,
right
now,
average
about
50
percent
of
tiff
being
generated
is
being
used.
So
we
don't.
We
don't
overextend
ourselves
to
make
sure
that
we
have
built
the
ability
to
reinvest
back
into
those
neighborhoods
that
we
have
to
for
improvements
would
be
roads
or
street
enhancements
or
whatever
else
we
do
in
those
areas.
So
we're
very
conservative.
K
I
apologize
so
the
statistic:
there
was
not
over
50
percent
of
the
tif
generated,
meaning
the
potential
for
deferred
taxes
that
we
are
issuing
away
is
used.
Have
we
done
a
study
on
when
we
deploy
tiff?
This
is
the
actual
economic
return
that
is
defensible.
Can
we
say
this
actually
drives
us
much
more
property
tax?
Can
we
say
we're
actually
positive?
Do
we
have
studies
for
that
in
des
moines,
with
hard
numbers.
B
I
don't
know
I'm
sure
the
the
finance
department
doesn't
every
time
we
do
a
tif
deal
through
oed.
We
do
a
tif
analysis
to
see
what
kind
of
tiff
is
this
going
to
generate
and
what
kind
of
anticipated
taxes
and
then
we.
So
we
have
really
good
understanding
where
we're
going
to
negotiate
from.
So
we
always
have
a
real
good
understanding
of
the
taxes
generated
and
the
taxes
going
back
to
the
developer,
to
make
the
development
happen.
K
Okay,
have
we
so
on
two
pieces?
Sorry,
so
have
we
done
that
analysis?
Do
we
know
what
we're
typically
generating
and
number
two?
Are
there
any
other
strategies
we
should
be
pushing
or
recommending
that
would
ensure
that
if
we
do
all
of
a
sudden
see
oh
man,
this
isn't
working.
This
is
resulting
in
equities.
We're
now
flooding
this
place
with
commute
commuters
versus.
Not
if
we
put
a
we
put
distribution
center
in
here,
you
know
is:
is
that
really
you
know
I
mean
amazon
will
come
in
and
build
us
a
soccer
field?
K
D
Well,
I
guess
what
I'd
like
to
interject
is
that
I
don't
know
that
the
staff
that's
here
tonight
is
going
to
answer
a
lot.
A
lot
of
your
questions,
but
I
I
I
would
go
back
to
the
last
council.
I
believe
the
last
quarterly
work
session
they
did.
There
was
a
whole
presentation
on
tip
and
des
moines
and
tiff
policy,
and
I
we
can
find
that,
and
that
might
be
a
good
starting
point
for
the
commission
to
watch
that
that
we're
the
finance
director,
I
would
go
back
to
the
yeah.
D
Let's
go
back
start
there.
We
can
provide
that
to
the
commission
and
then
and
then
move
from
that.
If
there's
still
more
questions
come
back
to
you,
you
know
pour
that
on
to
the
right
people.
I
just
I
mean
we're
doing
a
5
30
presentation
on
a
urban
renewal
plan
and
trying
to
decide
if
it's,
in
conformance
with
the
land
use
plan
or
not
that's
we're
kind
of
moving
beyond
the
scope.
K
C
C
M
Of
the
city
plan
and
zoning
commission
I'll
read
the
rules
and
procedures.
The
plan
and
zoning
commission
is
generally
an
advice,
advisory
body
to
the
city
council.
The
city
council
will
hold
a
public
hearing
and
make
the
final
decision
on
all
matters
before
the
commission
other
than
site
plans
and
subdivision
flats.
Unless
denials
or
conditional
approvals
thereof
are
appealed.
M
Applicant
will
be
given
10
minutes
to
present
the
request
proponents,
and
then
opponents
from
the
public
are
then
allowed
to
speak
in
that
order
with
each
speaker
allowed
a
maximum
of
five
minutes
applicant
is
then
allowed
five
minutes
for
a
rebuttal.
The
hearing
will
then
be
closed
and
the
commission
will
discuss
and
vote
on
the
issue.
L
M
F
A
M
M
M
Anyone
in
the
audience
who
wishes
to
have
this
item
pulled
anyone
on
the
commission
chris
paul
item.
Number
four
is
the
request
from
central
iowa,
shelter
and
services
for
review
and
approval
of
the
public
hearing
site
plan,
ciss
greenhouse
for
the
property
located
at
1420
mulberry
street
and
for
a
type
2
design
alternative
to
reduce
the
minimum
overall
height
requirement
for
a
downtown
general
building
type
and
a
dx2
district
from
three
stories
to
one
story.
E
M
M
Sorry
so
item
number
five
is
a
request
from
cfd
properties
for
property
located
at
two
three
zero
east
14th
street,
for
a
determination
as
to
whether
requested
rezoning
is,
in
conformance
with
plan
dsm
b,
to
amend
plan
dsm
to
revise
the
future
land
use
designation
from
neighborhood
mixed
use
and
low
medium
density,
residential
to
industrial
and
see
rezoned
property
from
mx1
mixed-use
district
to
I-1
industrial
district.
To
allow
a
use
that
includes
outdoor
storage.
M
M
M
A
All
right,
madam
chair
members
of
the
commission,
bert
drost
planning
staff
for
the
city
of
des
moines
item
number.
One
is
a
item
for
the
commission
needs
to
make
a
determination
as
to
whether
the
proposed
douglas
avenue
urban
renewal
plan
that
mr
poole
presented
on
at
5
30
is,
in
conformance
with
the
planned
dsm,
creating
our
tomorrow
plan
and
really
the
commission's
only
charged
with
determining
whether
it
meets
the
goals
of
planned
dsm.
A
In
it
it
outlines
the
goals
and
objectives
that
are
within
plan
dsm
that
we
believe
this
plan
meets
and
also
in
your
packet
was
that
the
staff
recommendation
and
in
the
staff
recommendation,
we
also
spelled
out
all
of
the
different
goals
that
are
contained
in
the
planned
dsm
land
use
plan
that
we
feel
this
plan
meets.
So
I'm
not
going
to
read
through
all
of
them,
but
you
can
see.
A
And
also
social
equity
there
at
the
end,
for
the
reasons
I
just
mentioned,
that
it
achieves
all
of
these
goals.
We
do
believe
that
the
proposed
urban
renewal
plan
is
in
conformance
with
planned
dsm,
so
we
have
recommended
approval
or
recommended
more
or
less
that
the
commission
find
it
is
in
conformance
with
plan
dsm.
So
any
questions
for
me.
M
C
K
The
reason
I
want
to
pull
this
off
is
because
we
have
tiff
come
up
a
lot.
We
are
it's
not
clear
that
the
impacts
of
tiff
are
in
line
with
what
we
claim
they
are.
There
are
multiple
studies
that
indicate
that
tiff
without
some
some
some
broader
strategy
to
how
to
avoid
the
economic
inequity
that
comes
from
investments
in
one
area
that
do
not
get
realized,
because
we
don't
actually
see
that
the
two
residential
impacts
the
tax
increase,
are
there.
I
would
like
to
motion
that
a
I
don't.
I
guess
this
is
my
question.
K
I'm
not
sure
how
we
motion
that
we
would
like
to
see
some
mechanism
in
here
that
ensures
that
we
do
not
end
up
with
the
same
tiff
inequities
that
we
see
in
other
situations.
So
is
that?
Can
we
ask
for
planning
committee?
Is
it
just?
What
do
we
do,
because
I
don't
think
with
without
some
safety
valve
that
says:
hey
if
this
is
going
the
wrong
way.
We,
you
know,
can't
keep
going
and
doing
the
same
thing.
It
doesn't
meet
the
objectives
of
plan
dsm.
L
I
remember
matt
and
aaron
olson
douglas,
maybe
in
some
of
their
earlier
goals,
doing
gathering
information
for
city
council
and
putting
together
a
lot
of
better
terms,
sort
of
proof
in
the
pudding
about
tiff
packages
that
were
done
whatever
10
years
ago
and
once
they
had
finished
their
their
their
period.
You
know
and
taxes
were
then
generated.
D
You
know
it,
I
don't
specifically.
I
don't
remember
that
specifically.
I
know
that
there's
been
a
lot
of
yearly
presentations
and
discussions
on
tiff
how
it
works,
how
we
use
it
des
moines,
our
you
know
the
precautions
that
we
approach
it
with.
You
know
we
can
do
a
couple
different
things
I
mean
we
could.
You
know.
Certainly
one
try
to
gather
what
we
can
I'd
mention
the
recent
presentation
to
the
council.
D
That
would
I
I
don't
know
if
that
was
recorded
or
not
would
be
available.
We
could
also
have
a
future
5
30
session
for
the
commission,
where
we
just
have
one
of
those
presentations
with
oed
staff,
where
we
kind
of
talk
a
little
bit
about
tiff,
you
know
tiff
tip
and
des
moines.
You
know
how
does
it
work
here?
K
F
F
So
again
this
wouldn't
be
on
a
plan
basis
at
the
adoption
of
plan,
but
each
project
that
would
receive
tiff
in
that
plan
for
each
project
and
analysis
is
done.
So
our
finance
department
is
involved.
The
city
staff
and
the
economic
development
office
review
the
pro
forma
and
a
variety
of
other
financial
information
about
each
project.
F
And
so
then,
when
it,
when
the
final
project
agreement
goes
to
the
city
council,
every
council
communication
that
is
made
public
on
the
city's
website
and
is
available
to
the
public
contains
a
short
table
that
shows
the
value
of
the
property.
Today,
the
value
of
the
property
with
the
proposed
project,
the
amount
of
tif
assistance
that
we'll
give
in
that
will
be
given
and
then
the
ultimate
tax
revenue
that
the
city
will
receive
and
I
believe
that's
like
a
current
5
10,
maybe
even
20-year
period.
F
So
I
don't
know
mr
draper.
If
that
answers
your
question,
but
that's
the
best
on
most
on-point
information
that
I
can
provide.
I
am
not
aware
I
am
not
personally
aware
of
studies
that
show
the
inequities,
so
that
might
be
something
that
would
be
helpful
to
provide
to
the
economic
development
office.
D
I
mean
the
the
commission
can
make
any
sort.
You
know
you
can
make
a
recommendation
to
the
city
council.
That
includes
what
you
think
is
warranted.
You
can
also.
Sometimes
the
commission
is,
is
on
action
on
items.
Not
necessarily
you
know
this
one
or
but
just
items
in
general.
You
know
moved
something
you
know
offered.
D
D
If
the
commission
is
interested
in
understanding
tip
and
des
moines
better
that
we
have
a
5
30
presentation
just
on
tiff,
where
we
can
have
the
right
staff
here,
they
can
kind
of
get
the
commission
up
to
speed
as
to
what
we
actually
do.
I
mean
right
now.
I
feel
like
we're
we're.
I
don't
know
that
we
can
answer
your
questions.
D
You
know
you,
I
think,
feel
like
we're
making
assumptions
without
really
looking
at
facts,
and
so
what
I'd
like
to
do
is
have
a
base
level
of
training
for
the
commission
and
a
530
session.
That
says
this
is
what
we
actually
do
in
des
moines
and
then
jump
into
more
of
the
kind
of
questions
that
you're
bringing
up
from
the
more
policy-wise.
You
know,
city,
wide
policy,
kind
of
thing.
K
Okay,
then
I
would
recommend-
and
I
would
recommend
we
can
shoot
the
staff
we
want.
I
would
recommend
that
this
plan
require
a
five-year
look-back
return
on
investment
analysis
following
implementation.
Can
you
at
least
do
that?
So
that's
nothing.
We
need
to
do
today
in
five
years.
We
need
to
know
if
this
thing
actually
did
what
it
said
it
was
going
to
do,
because
this
this
is
a
location
in
our
city,
where
investment
and
tif
here
should
actually
work.
Well,
this
isn't
going
to
be
a
heavy
commuter
area.
This
isn't
going
to
have.
K
I
H
C
B
This
body
is
one
of
the
steps
that
we
have
to
take
to
seek
approval
for
an
urban
renewal
plan,
we're
looking
at
council
approving
the
plan
and
establishing
urban
renewal
area
on
december
6.,
and
then
what
that
does
is
allows
us
then,
to
have
the
ability
to
work
with
the
developer,
all
tiff
that
we
do
in
this
area.
We
were
interested.
B
The
tip
that
we've
been
starting
to
go
forward
with
is
project
generated
tiff.
What
that
means
is
there's
no
money
generated
going
anywhere
until
development
is
done
and
and
and
fully
assessed,
and
then
we
start
working
on
then
the
difference
in
the
increment
and
the
incentive
plan
kicks
in.
So
it's
not
just
like
it
keeps
generating
keeps
generating.
B
It
allows
us
to
work
with
the
developer
and
say:
if
you
want
to
build
this
and
what
you're
telling
us
and
all
the
documentation
you
show
us
says:
it'll
be
x
number
of
dollars
and
we
work
with
the
county
to
get
an
idea
of.
Is
this
going
to
assess
at
what
we
think
it'll
be
that's
when
we
do
our
assessment
and
it
goes
to
finance
and
everyone
else
to
take
a
look
at
it.
B
L
I
sort
of
feel
like
there's
two
issues
on
the
table.
If
I'm
understanding
this
right,
one
is:
is
this
urban
renewal
plan
at
douglas
and
an
mlk
a
plan
that
we
believe
staff
and
we
believe
that
it
supports
what
an
urban
renewal
plan
should
do
and
then
the
second
topic
is
whether
it's
this
urban
renewal
plan
or
any
renewal
plan
urban
removal
plan
in
the
city,
whether
or
not
they're.
L
L
I
think
at
the
moment
our
commission's
charged
with
does
this
plan
meet
what
staff
is
charged
with
meeting
and
I
would
say
yes.
The
second
topic
is
something
that
I
think
jason.
Others
are
suggesting
that
we
all
will
dig
in
harder
and
get
up
to
speed
and
ask
the
right
questions,
and
I
think
we
could
just
give
jason
some
suggestions,
not
directions,
but
you
know,
can
you
please
do
what
you're
suggesting
and
get
us
up
to
speed
and
chris?
You
can
help
lead
us
and,
but
I
think,
they're
separate.
P
Yeah,
it's
you
can't
use
downtown
as
an
example.
You
know
that
it's
too
complicated.
I
think
there
are
some
other
areas
southridge
and
others
where
you
can
see
where
it's
been
a
benefit,
and
you
there's
also
examples
where
it
has
not,
and
so
I
think
there
are
presentations
available
and
staff.
I
know
city
staff
has
done
those
in
a
way,
that's
understandable,
because
this
is
a
pandora's
box
of
issues.
So
I
think
greg
is
right.
I
think
we're
we're
tasked
with.
Does
this
meet
the
overall
criteria
of
planned
dsm?
C
K
P
K
D
To
me,
I
really
think
that's
a
policy,
a
city-wide
policy
issue
that
should
be
set
by
the
city
council
as
and
and
not
just
for
this
specific
urban
renewal,
tif
district,
it's
a
it's
a
city-wide
issue
and
I
think
that's
why
the
presentations
that
have
been
given
to
urban
design
have
looked
at
multiple
right
now
areas
and
we
can
do
something
I
mean
if
the
commission
commission's
interested.
I
think
we
can
have
that
same
kind
of
presentation
provided
to
the
commission,
but
ultimately,
how
tiff
is
done
in
in
des
moines
is
city
council.
P
D
I
think
it's
important
just
to
piggyback
on
that
that
every
every
tif
every
development
agreement
that
has
tip
in
it
you
know
every
one
of
those
is
getting
looked
at
by
the
urban
design
review
board.
First
staff,
then
they're,
making
a
recommendation.
Urban
design
review
board,
they're,
looking
at
it
and
they're,
making
a
recommendation,
city,
council
and
ultimately
council
has
to
decide.
Is
this
a
good
deal
for
des
moines
or
not,
and
then
they
they
approve
each
one
individually?
This
isn't
a
you
know.
It's
not
like.
K
I'm
not
I'm
not
making
comments
out
of
a
lack
of
understanding
of
the
process.
What
I'm
making
the
comments
out
of
is,
it
doesn't
seem
to
be
here
you're
saying:
does
this
meet
plan
dsm
tons
of
stuff?
I
actually
read
the
paper.
I
get
it
love
the
report,
awesome
tons
of
good
stuff.
I
think
this
project
is
a
great
one.
I
think
we
should
invest
in
this
place.
I
think
this
is
a
section
of
town,
I'm
sort
of
disappointed
that
isn't
as
more
successful
as
it
could
be
given
its
location
in
history.
K
It's
not
clear
to
me
that
we
have
seen
data
that
demonstrates
that
this
is
a
a
clearly
a
clearly
appropriate
smart
deployment
of
the
primary
mechanism
of
this
plan,
the
primary
economic
driving
mechanism
of
this-
it's
just
not
clear
to
me,
so
I
I
I
won't
waste
everyone's
night
all
night,
but
I
do
have
to
say,
though,
that
this
is.
It
is
not
clear
to
me
that
we
can
say
honestly
without
data
this
actually
meets
the
objectives,
even
though
we've
hit
all
the
others.
K
Sustainable
economic
impact
is,
is
one
that's
important,
even
though
in
this
one
I
bet
this
will
work.
I
just
don't
know
why
we
have
an
aversion
to
actually
making
sure
we're
requiring
us
to
collect
the
data,
to
prove
that
this
one
of
all
the
ones
their
boundary
wants.
This
one
could
work,
should
work.
M
H
Okay,
thank
you
chair.
I
have
a
suggestion
and
there
were
a
couple
of
comments
that
recommended
a
5
30
for
the
commission
to
discuss
exactly
what
chris
has
been
talking
about
and
I
think
that
would
have
would
have
utility
whether
it
would
answer
the
question
you
know
about
this
or
not.
I
don't
know,
but
still
can.
A
A
M
A
So
it's
just
a
couple
blocks
to
the
east
of
the
state
capitol
building.
It's
an
existing
one-story
office
building.
I
have
a
couple
photos
here
that
might
provide
some
insight,
so
here's
the
building
along
as
it's
viewed
along
east
grand
avenue
this
next
photo
here
is
viewed
from
east
15th
street
and
it
shows
the
overhead
utilities
that
they
would
be
required
to
bury.
So
you
can
see
there
is
a
significant
amount
of
utilities
on
this
site
that
they
would
be
required
to
bury
just
moving
forward,
or,
I
guess
fast
forward.
A
Overage
of
that
budget,
so
here's
the
site
plan
that
there
they've
provided
you
can
see
they
are
doing
some
landscaping
and
some
street
trees
along
east
grand
avenue
and
other
site
improvements.
So
it
will
be
an
improvement
over.
What's
there
today,
a
nurse
staff
recommendation,
we
detailed
that
two
hundred
thousand
dollar
estimate
for
mid-american,
as
well
as
the
three
hundred
thousand
dollar
project
cost
estimate
provided
by
the
applicant
and.
R
C
A
C
K
This
is
for
me,
this
is
the
same
thing
from
three.
You
know
three,
six,
seven,
eight
to
the
same
one,
so
I'll
only
identify
the
issue.
One
spell
propose
the
same
motion
for
each
one,
which
is
consistent
with
what
we
discussed
last
week.
This
quick
summary
in
57
days,
development
director
will
be
delivering
recommendations
on
how
to
ensure
the
economic
burden
of
safeguarding
min
americans
utility
delivery,
protecting
our
citizens
access
to
power,
our
businesses
operations
our
tree
canopy
for
modification
in
57
days.
K
We
should
have
a
recommendation
of
here's
better
ways
to
do
this
more
equitably.
My
argument
has
been
consistently
by
now.
I
am
nothing
consistent
in
some
cases
waiving
these
requirements
when
a
multi-year
effort
said
that
these
are
desired.
Ordinances
continues
to
damage
our
ordinances,
risks
his
perception
of
arbitrariness
and
is
not
sure
to
produce
equal
results.
K
We
need
57
days
if
we
give
staff
that
time
to
to
do
that,
we
should
see
recommendations
that
should
hopefully
ensure
that
the
economic
burden
of
complying
with
this
ordinance
is
more
appropriately
shared
between
those
stakeholders.
So
the
same
thing
here
on
this
and
I'll
have
the
same
recommendation.
All
the
others
is,
I
would
move
staff
except
for
I
would,
instead
of
waiving
defer
for
three
years,
the
requirement
to
comply
with
135
921e.
O
M
S
Madam
chair
and
members
of
the
commission's
roshi
chaka
birthday
planning
staff
at
the
city
of
des
moines.
So
the
item
before
you
item
number
six
is
a
public
hearing
site
plan
for
a
property,
that's
on
2551,
douglas
avenue,
and
the
applicant
is
requesting
type
2,
design
alternatives
and
is
requesting
a
couple
different
waivers.
S
So
before
I
start
off
I'll,
just
orient
you
a
little
bit
to
where
the
property
is
located.
So
you
can
see
right
here,
2551
douglas
avenue,
it's
directly
west
of
the
intersection
of
martin
luther
king,
junior
parkway
and
douglas
avenue,
and
it's
on
a
fairly
busy
commercial
corridor.
It
has
a
mix
of
uses
around
the
property
itself
is
zoned
mx3
and
there's
the
surrounding
uses
are
commercial
office,
spaces
and
other
mixed
uses
of
similar
nature.
S
So
the
applicant
is
proposing
to
make
a
few
improvements
to
the
site.
The
current
use
of
the
site
is
an
auto
repair,
type
business
and
they're
proposing
to
move
in
a
new
user.
The
new
user
is
proposing
to
continue
with
the
existing
auto
repair
shop,
but
they
are
intending
on
adding
vehicle
display,
as
well
as
a
vehicle
sale
on
the
property.
S
So
here
oops
here's
a
site
plan
and
you
can
see
some
of
the
improvements
that
are
proposed
here.
So
currently
they
have
they're
proposing
to
have
12
parking
spaces
and
50
of
those
about
six
of
those
they
are
proposing
for
display
and
the
other
six
are
to
be
used
for
customer
as
well
as
customer,
as
well
as
employee
parking
they're,
also
proposing
a
few
other
improvements
to
the
site,
including
some
landscaping
right
here
that
that
you
can
see
so.
The
I'll
move
on
to
the
staff
recommend
recommendation
here.
S
The
first
one
is
that
they
are
seeking
that
any
portion
of
the
property
to
be
used
for
outside
storage
display
and
parking
of
vehicles
for
vehicle
sales
display
lot
is
required
to
be
at
least
one
half
acre
of
land
and,
as
you
might
have
seen,
the
property
is
about
0.425
acres.
So
it's
fairly
small
and
the
the
second
waiver
that
they
are
requiring
is
for
placement
of
all
electrical
telephone,
cable
utility
system
underground.
S
S
The
site
here,
the
the
staff
is
proposing
that
these
three
parking
spaces
be
used
for
vehicle
display
and
the
reason
being
that
this
this
lot
is
fairly
small
and
the
and
tight
in
terms
of
circulation
and
parking
and
by
having
six
parking
spaces
dedicated
to
vehicle
display.
That
could
create
circulation
and
parking
issues
within
the
site
and
by
having
just
three
of
these
spots
available
for
display.
That
should
ease
up
some
of
that
issue
with
circulation
and
parking
other
than
that
staff
is
supportive
of
the
of
the
request
and,
let's
see
we.
E
S
Receive
some
comment
cards
and
I'll
move
on
to
that.
We
received
one
comment
card
from
an
adjacent
property
owner
who
is
not
in
support
of
this
particular
use.
We
also
received
a
letter
outlining
their
concerns
with
this
particular
use.
In
summary,
they
are
concerned
that
there
are
quite
a
few
vehicle
sales
and
similar
uses
along
the
corridor,
and
this
would
just
add
two
more
of
those.
S
So
this
is
just
a
continuation
of
the
concerns,
which
also
outlines
some
of
the
issues
with
the
easement
area
itself,
with
people
utilizing
the
easement
as
walking
down
to
the
grocery
store
or
to
the
bus,
stop
or
just
simply
kids
playing
in
that
area
as
there's
some
residential
area
to
the
north
of
that
of
that
particular
site.
So
here
you
can
see
some
pictures
there's
a
towing
truck,
and
this
is
the
easement
that
I
was
talking
about.
S
S
And
so
I
would.
I
would
like
to
point
out
that
there
are
some
supplemental
use,
regulations
that
do
apply
towards
minor
vehicle
maintenance,
repair
use
in
mx3
district,
so
those
would
apply
to
this
property
and
additionally,
the
storage
of
two
or
more
inoperable
motor
vehicle
will
constitute
junk
or
salvage
yard
use
which
is
prohibited
in
this
in
this
particular
zone
district.
S
D
If
I
could
just,
I
think,
one
thing
that
maybe
got
glossed
over
was
the
estimated
cost
for
the
utilities
for
mid
amp.
The
the
project
cost
to
do
the
landscaping
here,
because
again
this
is
a
minor.
You
know
that
they're
switching
uses,
but
it's
their
relative.
You
know
basically
leaving
the
building
alone.
The
project
value
we
had
was
5400
and
the
utility
cost
was
estimated
at
85
to
100
000.
So
that's
the
basis
of
our
recommendation
of
waiving
that
in
this
particular
case,.
D
K
K
D
You
know
I
I
think
their
operations,
I
mean,
how
do
we,
I
think
a
good
question
for
the
applicant
is:
how
long
have
they
been
operating
there?
Currently
there
was
a
previous
operator,
I'm
assuming
that
what
you
took
pictures
of
is
the
new
operator,
but
I'd
want
to
have
that
clarification
as
the
history.
S
D
S
D
Okay,
well,
hopefully,
the
neighbors
here
can
speak
on
their
own
behalf
and
then
the
applicant
can
maybe
address
how
they
plan
to
operate
on
site.
I
do
think
that's
part
of
the
rationale
for
us
recommending
a
very
limited
display
areas,
because
it
is
a
small
site
and
there's
going
to
be
a
need
for
customer
vehicles,
and
so
we
wanted
to
ensure
that
the
site
could
function
and
that
that's
the
basis
of
the
recommendation
for
that.
D
Q
S
D
I
I
He
does
have
a
dealer's
license
and
he
said
those
three
stalls
that
would
be
limited
to
display
is
fine.
He
said
he
doesn't
sell
that
many
cars,
that's
not
his
primary
business.
Occasionally
he
comes
across
the
customer
that
wants
to
sell
the
vehicle
he
can
then
buy
it
and
then
resell.
It
he's
not
looking
to
stock
the
property
with
15
or
20
vehicles
for
sale.
Again,
his
primary
business
is
auto
repair
and
from
what
I'm.
What
he's
telling
me
in
those
photos?
The
vehicles
behind
the
building
are
not
related
to
his
business.
D
I
M
T
I
rode
by
this
property
and
I
congratulate
them
on
putting
in
a
new
bike
pad
for
a
new
bike
rack.
Unfortunately,
the
bike
rack
is
not
attached
to
the
bike
pad
and
it's
for
little
kids
bikes,
so
it's
sort
of
c
plus
for
effort,
but
it'd
be
really
great.
If
it
was
not
a
bike
that
you
bike,
rack
that
you
put
at
a
grade
school
and
you
should
connect
it,
it
looks
like
the
out
front.
Parking
lot
is
brand
new.
It
has
the
handicap
spot.
New
striping
looks
really
great.
So
thank
you.
T
So-
and
I
know
some
of
that
was
pointed
out
on
the
site
plan,
but
I
I
hope
that
the
applicant
commits
to
keeping
the
new
landscaping
alive,
because
that
makes
a
big
difference
and
currently,
when
I
was
there
actually
two
days
ago,
there
were
cars
parked
on
the
east
side
of
the
building,
not
in
spots
they
were
parked
perpendicular
to
the
spot.
So
that
sort
of
looks
kind
of.
T
Shabby
so
I
believe
the
first
item
on
the
agenda
was
sexing
up
douglas
avenue,
and
I
think
this
area
is
in
that
urban
renewal
plan
area.
I
believe
so
it'd
be
really
great
if
we
start
with
properties
like
this,
that
are
making
investment
to
make
them
look
a
little
better
and
also
maybe
it's
an
opportunity
to
spend
a
boatload
of
that
money
in
undergrounding.
All
of
those.
T
M
M
T
A
D
C
D
The
use
legitimate
first
and
then
after
that,
is
there
a
site
plan
of
record
and
are
they
in
conformance
with
that
site
plan,
because
if
they're,
not
if
they're,
not
in
conformance
with
the
site
plan
they
need
to,
they
have
to
bring
the
site.
You
have
to
actually
maintain
your
site
and
conform.
So
if
you
have
landscaping
that
dies,
you're,
you're
obligated
to
replace
it
now,
you
know
enforcement
is
typically
on
complaint
basis,
just
because
of
the
volume,
but
so
even
the
current.
T
U
Hotels
is
one
of
the
things
that
they
that
we're
thinking
about.
It's
going
to
be
tough,
hopefully
not
to
mention
the
tip,
but
hopefully
that
will
come
through.
I
hate
to
throw
that
in
there,
but
I
just
wanted
to
let
you
know
you
know
the
douglas
coalition
we've
spent
three
years
and
I'm
on
that
coalition
board
trying
to
develop
that
area
too,
also,
which
was
mentioned
to
you
earlier.
I'm
sure
I
missed
that
beginning
of
that
presentation.
U
U
So
I
just
wanted
to
let
you
know
that
other
car
is
also
on
their
lot,
that
fence
right
over
where
the
other
car
is
up
on
jacks.
That
is
my
lot
on
the
other
side
they
own
to
there.
So
they've
got
two
cars
stranded
out
there.
The
other
cars
damaged,
don't
know
how
long
that's
been
there,
but
the
other
car
the
gmc
does
not
have
any
license
plates
and
that
you
know
nothing
wrong
with
that.
U
U
V
V
I
wrote
a
letter
which
you,
sir,
have
received,
and
I
would
just
read
that,
because
it
outlines
what
we're
talking
about
greetings,
the
lower
beaver
neighborhood
association
would
like
to
express
its
opposition
to
the
proposed
variances,
which
would
allow
used
car
sales
at
2551
douglas
avenue
for
more
than
20
years.
The
lower
beaver
neighborhood
association
has
endeavored
to
advocate
for
the
residents
and
businesses
along
douglas
avenue
between
the
des
moines
river
and
beaver
avenue,
starting
in
2011.
V
Our
neighborhood
participated
in
the
city's
neighborhood
revitalization
program
and
developed
a
comprehensive
plan
to,
among
other
things,
support
vibrant,
viable
businesses,
new
and
old.
Stemming
from
this
commitment,
the
lbna
was
a
founding
member
of
the
douglas
avenue
coalition,
which
has
advocated
for
the
revitalization
of
the
douglas
avenue
commercial
corridor.
V
The
douglas
eugene
excuse
me,
the
douglas
euclid
corridor
near
martin
luther
king,
jr
parkway
has
encountered
numerous
challenges
over
the
years
older
awkwardly
sized
and
poorly
maintained
buildings
create
significant
turnover
among
businesses
in
the
area.
The
challenges
were
compounded
in
december
2017
when
fire
destroyed
plaza
lanes
the
principal
anchor
of
this
commercial
node.
V
In
recent
months,
the
lbna
has
been
greatly
encouraged
by
a
number
of
public
and
private
entities
that
have
come
together
to
kick-start
the
redevelopment
of
this
area.
In
fact,
the
agenda
for
this
evening's
meeting
included
number
one,
the
douglas
avenue
urban
renewal
plan,
which
focuses
on
this
very
portion
of
the
douglas
euclid
corridor.
V
The
proposed
variants
to
allow
sheldon
holdings
to
expand
their
business
to
include
used
car
sales
at
25.51,
we
believe,
is
directly
contrary
to
the
objectives
of
our
neighborhood,
the
city
planning
office.
The
urban
renewal
plan
and
more
real
estate
professionals
have
have
long
held
that
used
car
sales,
lots
typically
lower
the
value
of
nearby
properties
and
make
an
area
less
attractive
to
developers.
V
Additionally,
the
planned
dsm
future
land
use
map
designates
the
area
in
question
for
community
mixed
use.
Under
this
plan,
this
community
mixed
use
unit
will
include
both
a
mix
of
residential
densities
and
a
mix
of
retail
and
service
establishments
designed
to
attract
customers
from
a
large
service
area
encompassing
multiple
neighborhoods
and
may
include
specialty
realty
retail
that
attracts
regional
customers
simply
put,
we
do
not
believe
that
a
used
car
lot
is
consistent
with
these
objectives.
V
We
are
particularly
concerned
about
the
possible
impact
of
a
used
car
lot
on
our
efforts
to
redevelop
the
former
plaza
lane
site
into
a
mixed-use
development,
which
will
almost
certainly
include
a
residential
component.
Finally,
we
would
observe
that
there
are
already
no
less
than
three
used
car
lots
within
sight
of
this
property.
V
D
M
M
G
A
A
D
And
if
I
could
to
piggyback
on
some
of
the
information
that
bert
is
providing,
I
do
want
to
make
sure
everybody
understands
that
as
staff
and
we
looked
at
this
mx3
allows
this.
The
auto
cells
use
the
issue
here
is
that
they
don't
meet
the
half
acre
site
plan
standard,
and
so
that's
what
they're
needing
relief
of-
and
you
know,
I
think
it's
fair
for
the
commission
to
decide
whether
that's
it.
D
Whether
this
is
the
right
time
to
waive
that
that's
a
fair
question,
but
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we
understand
that
we're
not
like
granting
use
variance
kind
of
relief
that
maybe
the
zoning
board
of
adjustment.
You
know
we're
not
looking
at
a
rezoning.
This
is
really
a
site
plan
standard
and
a
question
of.
Is
this
site
big
enough
to
allow
some
vehicle
sales.
D
They're
they're
in
the
process
or
they're
here
tonight
because
they
have
expressed
you
know
their
desire
to
sell
vehicles,
and
so
that's
what
triggered
the
sight
plan.
So
we
wouldn't
be
here
if
they
were
just
going
to
continue
on
with
the
auto
repair
use,
there
would
be
no
site
plan
other
than
the
one.
That's
on
the
book
and
probably
already.
A
H
A
K
A
D
Again,
the
the
use
is
allowed
by
the
current
zoning,
and
so
what
went
into
our
thinking
is
with
that
restriction
like
bert,
was
saying
that
if
you
limit
it
to
just
the
three
stalls,
it's
really
accessory
to
the
use,
that's
already
there
is
permitted
and
we
felt
that
that
was
reasonable
to
allow
them
to
have
the
the
cells
it's
almost
accessory
to
the
there's.
No,
our
code
doesn't
allow
the
sales
to
be
accessory
to
a
repair,
but
by
fault
default.
D
That's
what
we
would
be
doing
here
if
we
have
just
three
three
spaces
up
front,
because
it's
really
still
just
a
repair
business.
You
know
I
I
was
involved
with
the
douglas
avenue.
Planning
effort
has
very
big
visions
that
I
I'm
excited
about
that
are
much.
You
know
very
urban
lockable
focus,
but
those
things
happen
over
over
time
and
as
staff
we
looked
at
this
and
we
say:
hey
you
know,
zone
device
three.
This
is
a
permitted
use
they're
there
if
it's
accessory,
maybe
you
know
it
makes
sense
to.
D
K
A
Well,
the
site
plan
requires
just
five
off
street
parking
spaces
and
they
provide
12..
So
that
was,
I
think,
the
justification
for
proposing
to
have
six
display
spaces,
because
as
far
as
zoning
or
the
I
guess,
planning
and
design
ordinance
would
require
they're
only
required
to
provide
five
off
street
parking
spaces,
but
they
have
12.
So.
D
I
mean
it's,
we
have
stan
they.
You
know
this
complies
with
our
parking
standards,
but
it's
always
possible
for
people
to
operate
in
a
manner
that
our
our
site
standards
can't
control,
or
you
know
or
beyond
what
you
can
look
at
and
control
with
the
site
plan.
I
mean
there's
just
there's
a
reality
of
and
that's
why
we
have
enforcement
staff.
I
mean
because
it's
just
that
it's
an
ongoing
part
of
the
business
in
in
what
we
do.
D
Better
than
what
what's
been
observed,
no,
but
does
the
site
plan,
comply
with
our
standards
and
our
requirements?
Yes
from
regard
of
parking
and
maneuvering
spaces,
and
you
know
we
have
to
you
can't
assume
a
violation.
You
have
to
give
somebody
the
right
to
operate,
and
then,
if
they
do
have
a
violation,
then
you
enforce
on
them.
After
the
fact,
it's
just
the
nature
of
law,
but
anyway.
D
D
A
D
G
I
Regarding
the
dead
landscaping,
we're
aware
of
that,
the
applicant
has
looked
at
putting
replacement
trees
in,
but
right
now
is
not
a
really
good
time
to
plant
new
trees
and
hope
that
they
would
survive
the
winter.
So
he
has
asked
for
a
deferral
until
next
spring.
I
think
he's
taking
care
of
quite
a
few
of
the
items.
I
R
I
The
first
submittal
I
can't
six
or
seven
something
like
that.
I
didn't
speak
with
the
applicant
about
what
he
needs,
but
when
I
called
and
asked
him
they
want
to
limit
you
to
three.
So
that's
fine.
He
said
a
lot
of
times.
You
only
have
one
or
two
anyway,
that
being
trying
to
sell
so
again
he's
not
looking
to
flood
the
site
with
used
cars
if
he
has
an
opportunity
to
buy
and
resell
a
car.
He
does
that.
I
I
When
I
might
say
that
sorry,
this
building
is
really
set
up
for
a
small,
auto
repair
shop,
a
little
bit
of
an
office
up
front
and
then
the
repair
bays
in
the
back
yeah.
I
don't
know
what
other
use
it
would
be
and
looking
at
the
future,
revitalization
along
douglas,
is
this
going
to
be
here
for
a
long
time,
probably
not
again,
the
person
operating
the
business
is
a
tenant.
I
K
If
this
request
is
denied,
will
this
actually
impact
their
current
operation,
or
will
they
be
able
to
keep
continuing
operating
as
normal
you're?
Mentioning
so
we'd
like
to
keep
the
business
going?
It
sounds
like
there's
a
risk
that
goes
away.
If
this
doesn't
change,
if
it
doesn't
sound,
like
that's
actually
what's
happening
here,
it'll
still
be
a
repair
shop,
primarily
we
just
won't
necessarily
have
a
few
cars
up
front
to
sell.
Is
that
accurate?
Am
I
missing
your
point?
There.
I
I
N
Q
I
would
just
like
to
think
that
having
this
as
a
waiver,
I'm
not
in
favor
of
the
waiver
for
the
outside
stores
or
turning
it
into
a
used
car
a
lot.
I
think,
looking
at
the
the
urban
renewal
plan
for
the
future,
you
want
to
have
a
a
different
type
of
mix
of
businesses
and,
as
I
probably
believe,
this
will
continue
as
a
auto
repair
store.
But
I
don't
think
it's
consistent
with
the
future
plans
for
douglas
avenue
corridor
to
have
this
expanded
and
the
code
says
a
half
acre
lot
minimum.
Q
I
think,
should
stick
to
that,
and
so
I
would
support
the
waiver
requirement
for
electrical
and
telephone
underground
equipment,
but
not
the
waiver
for
the
used
car
a
lot.
I
think
that
was
opposition
of
the
neighbors,
especially
the
lower
beaver
association.
I
think
it's
important.
We
move
ahead
and
try
to
upgrade
all
communities
with
tangible
results.
D
They
could
still
act
on
the
site
plan.
There
might
be
some
improvements
on
there
that
they
would
want
to
execute.
We'd
have
to
go
back
and
look,
but
I
do
think
they
have
standing
with
their
current
site
plan.
You
know
they
could
elect
to
just
operate
as
they
have
been.
We
would
need
to
go,
look
and
see
you
know.
D
What's
the
site
plan
on
the
books,
what
does
it
have,
but
I
don't
think
there's
any
harm
in
approving
the
site
plan
and
and
the
utility
waiver
and
then
giving
them
the
ability
if
they
want
to
do
some
of
these
site
improvements
that
they're
showing
there's
some
fencing.
There's
the
bike
rack
there's
no
harm
in
letting
them
just
finish
the
proc
the
process
they
certainly
could
withdraw
at
all
if
they
wanted
to.
N
H
N
D
D
E
K
H
D
N
D
C
M
Item
number
seven
is
a
request
from
1925
high
street
for
review
and
approval
public
hearing
site
plan
des
moines,
ballroom
for
property,
located
1925
height
street,
for
tech,
2
design
alternative
and
to
allow
waiver
a
requirement
for
placement
of
all
electrical
telephone
and
cable
transmission
systems
underground,
and
we
have
jillian
summers
who's
new
to
presenting
before
us.
So
welcome.
M
W
You
for
having
me
jillian
summer
city
staff
planning
staff.
The
item
number
seven
is
a
site
plan
that
is
requesting
waiver
of
undergrounding
of
utilities.
The
subject
property
is
1925
high
street,
located
to
the
east
of
mlk
north
of
ingersoll.
At
the
southern
end
of
sherman
hill,
the
building
was
previously
an
office
building,
it's
being
converted
into
a
dance
studio.
So
the
reason
for
the
site
plan
is
a
change
of
use.
W
There
are
three
kind
of
pieces
to
the
undergrounding
on
this
property:
there's
an
existing
pole
at
the
northeast
corner
of
the
property
and
to
the
north
and
extending
down
the
alley.
There
are
main
lines
that
are
outside
of
the
scope
of
this
project,
but
this
pole
acts
as
the
guide
pole
for
those
lines,
and
so
midamerican
has
indicated
that
that
the
pole
would
need
to
remain
at
this
point
to
support
those
main
lines
and
the
guy
wires
related
to
them.
W
The
third
piece
to
the
undergrounding
is
the
primary
lines
that
extend
from
the
pole
at
the
northeast
corner
down
to
the
streetlights
along
high
street.
There
is
a
line
that
extends
to
a
street
light,
that's
just
to
the
south
of
gateway
market,
and
then
there
are
lines
along
high
street
as
well.
There
is
one
street
light
in
front
of
the
1925
high
property.
W
W
W
W
The
again
the
main
lines
to
the
north,
we
we
would
not
want
that
underground
either
and
we
would
support
waving
any
of
that
work
as
well,
but
the
work
for
the
historic
street
lights
and
the
undergrounding
of
those
lines.
We
would
be
asking
for
an
escrow
agreement
in
the
amount
of
twelve
thousand
dollars.
D
E
D
D
They're
not
being
asked
to
pay
for
the
upgraded
light
fixture
they're
just
being
asked
to
escrow
the
money
that
any
commercial
site
plan
would
be
required
to
do
in
the
downtown
area,
and
that
is
to
go
to
the
black
archetype
fixture
and
that's.
Why?
And
the
schmidt
would
cover
the
difference
from
that
point
up
to
the
historic
style
fixture
that
you
see
in
the
crying
core
part
of
sherman
hill.
L
Do
you
know,
was
that
looked
up,
and
is
this
consistent
with
how
that
was
calculated
and
how
that
was
escrowed,
because
I
also
believe
there's
a
timeline
on
it
that
if
sherman
hill
didn't
get
it
done,
that
owner
got
their
money
back.
In
other
words,
there
was
pressure
on
sherman
hill.
You
need
to
get
this
done
and
I
remember
meetings
with
mike
ludwig
and
some
others
trying
to
convince
sherman
hill
to
get
the
engineering
done
and
get
there
start
spending
their
schmid
money
because
they
have
money
saved.
D
L
D
L
L
K
K
Otherwise,
very
similarly,
I
would
argue
exactly
equivalently
if
we
know
that
a
whole
block
will
go
in
over
a
certain
amount
of
time
and
we
say:
hey
it's
going
to
cost
you
10
percent
of
this
cost,
because
that
transformer
is
going
to
be
replaced
anyway,
let's
put
the
whole
block
in
again
for
centurylink
you're
talking
about
at
least
25
plus
lines.
Houses
have
to
go
in
before
they
can
make
money,
otherwise
we're
always
waiving
if
we
say
this
is
the
amount
that
would
cost
you.
K
If
you
all
went
in
bulk,
you
have
10
years,
maybe
city
of
des
moines,
to
go.
Do
this
whole
block?
If
we
do
it
within
10
years,
I.e
the
pressure
that
we
need
to
make
sure
these
things
get
moving.
You
get
the
money
and
reduce
this
cost
of
this
project.
If
we
don't
do
it,
you
get
your
money
back,
no
big
deal
effectively
waived
anyway.
K
That
seems
to
be
exactly
the
same
as
these
historic
lights,
just
bigger
amounts
of
money,
which
makes
it
more
important
because
it
is
bigger
amounts
of
money
either
the
city
pays
more
later,
and
these
people
don't
pay
fair
share,
or
these
people
pay
way
more
now
or
we
are
ruining
the
actual
access
to
this
code
to
be
able
to
be
enforceable.
Because
again
we
have
a
logic
that
says
we're
going
to
waive
some,
not
waive
others.
We
get
an
equitable
outcome.
M
X
As
you
can
see,
on
the
site
plan,
we
are
committed
to
improving
this
site,
we're
going
to
spend
about
7
600
on
improved
landscaping,
10
000
on
improved
ada
parking,
we've
already
spent,
and
many
of
you
have
driven
by
visit
gateway,
we've
repainted
the
whole
building
power
washed,
the
the
cmu
that
was
peeling
and
the
masonry
out
front
of
the
tune
of
seven
grand.
So
again,
we
are
totally
on
board
and
committed
to
improving
the
site.
X
We
are
also
on
board
with
getting
a
historic
pull
out
here.
I
think
where
we
disagree
with
the
staff
recommendation
is
the
vehicle
in
which
it
gets
paid.
For
chris
I
mean
I
think
you
mentioned
fair
share.
We
have
you
know,
I
guess
the
burden
of
having
the
poll
on
our
property,
so
this
poll
is
a
community
asset
and
I
think
that's
one
of
the
reasons
that
the
schmidt
got
sent
they're
set
up
in
their
in
the
first
place
back
in
1998.
X
It
actually
says
that
we're
to
pay
a
dollar
fifty
per
thousand
dollars
of
assessed
property
value
which
we
which
we
pay,
so
our
value
as
a
commercial
property,
is
a
lot
higher
than
these
residences.
Therefore,
we
pay
our
fair
share
and
pay
a
lot
more
money
to
the
tune
right
now
of
about
a
thousand
dollars
a
year
with
how
our
property
is
currently
valued.
X
It
also
says
specifically
that
the
funds
have
been
dedicated
for
the
installation,
maintenance
and
utility
usage
of
historic
street
lighting.
I
confirmed
with
ryan
howell,
who
was
the
president
of
of
the
district
today,
that
the
improvements
of
these
the
street
lighting
of
the
historic
street
lighting
and
crew
includes
underground.
X
So
what
we're
asking
for,
if
the
schmidt
does
have
the
dollars
to
go
ahead
and
use
the
dollars
as
they're
they're,
intended
as
a
communal
resource?
You
know
improvement
with
these
street
lights.
It
shouldn't
be
put
on
the
burden
of
you
know
one
business
just
because
they're
they
have
a
street
light.
You
know
on
their
property
that
they're
to
full
bill
of
twelve
thousand
dollars.
So
our
position
is
that
we
use
the
schmidt
dollars
that
we
are
currently
paying
into
for
the
intended
use
and
the
scope
of
what
the
schmidt
was
set
up
for
originally.
M
L
Thoughts
chair:
this
is
greg.
What
the
applicant
said
is
actually
what
I
remember
too,
when
we
were
doing
the
project
a
few
years
ago
that
the
intent
was
that
the
smith
money
would
be
used
for
not
only
buying
the
fixtures
but
also
undergrounding.
So
that's
why,
chris?
I
think
this
is
a
different
conversation
on
this
one.
I
don't
disagree
with
your
concern
about
the
broad
topic.
L
I
totally
agree
with
that,
but
this
is
unique
in
that
there
is
a
mechanism
how
we,
how
how
someone
convinces
sherman
hill
to
spend
that
schmidt
money
and
get
it
done.
I
I
don't
know
that
that
that's
a
different
issue,
also
what
I
what
I
would
be
in
support
of-
and
I
don't
know
what
the
board
thinks,
but
I
would
be
in
support
of
not
requiring
them
to
underground.
L
E
F
H
L
Hear
me
I
have
I'm,
yes,
I'm
sorry,
I
have
read
it,
I'm
looking
at
it
again,
but
I
think
you're
not
sure.
I
understand
that
30,
I'm
not
sure.
I
understand
the
32
percent
of
the
total
project
cost.
Can
someone
equate
that
to
a
dollar?
I
don't?
I
don't
know
where
that
number
came
from.
Is
that
some
consistent
number
we
use
in
other
projects
or
something
I
don't
know.
D
No,
the
estimated
cost
for
the
the
work
not
not,
including
what
we're
recommending,
but
just
the
the
part
of
the
back.
They
included
the
service
line.
The
poll
we
had
a
to
underground
that
poll
in
the
northwest
corner
of
the
site
is
going
to
be
24
000
and
doing
so
would
then
trigger
upgrades
to
the
building
for
their
electrical
meters
and
panels,
which
would
add,
would
be
in
another
forty
six
thousand
dollars
almost
forty
seven,
that's
where
we
got
the
thirty
two
percent
for
that
utility
work
in
the
back.
D
D
L
A
A
L
D
Where
the
32
that's
all
specific,
to
the
work,
that
would
happen.
That's
that
we're
proposing
be
waived
that
we
would
recommend
waiver.
That's
the
the
poll
at
the
back
of
the
property
and
the
transformers
back
there,
and
then
the
service
line
to
the
building
that
all
together
is
about
32
would
at
it's
the
equivalent
of
32
percent
of
their
project
budget
and
of
itself.
K
D
L
D
What
my
understand
I
mean
this
has
come
from
several
projects:
it
wasn't
just
lua,
it
was
also
the
cathedral
or
cathedral,
I'm
not
sure
exactly
the
name
at
the
moment.
But
and
then
there
was
also
site
plan
for
the
apartment
building
at
the
corner
over
there
by
the
coffee
shop
to
the
south,
and
then
we've
also
had
hoyt
sherman
yeah,
where
we
and
there
I
think
we
did
a
security
bond.
I
think
we
took
a
slightly
different
approach.
D
I
don't
I
wasn't
involved
with
that
one,
but
the
if,
if
you
take
the
project-
and
you
forget
that
you're
in
sherman
hill,
the
development
is
obligated
to
meet
the
requirement.
There'd
been
past
interest
on
those
other
projects
to
for
people
to
to
provide
the
black
archetype
type
fixture
to
do
underground
in
the
downtown
area,
and
but
it
doesn't
make
sense
to
have
the
property
owner
move
forward
with
that
and
then
put
in
black
archetype
light
fixtures
that
you
down
the
road
want
to
replace
with
the
historic
light
fixture.
D
I
don't
know
sitting
here.
I
do
not
know
the
balance
of
the
schmidt,
I
think
from
our
perspective.
We've
looked
at
it.
As
you
know,
this
is
development
is
required.
You
know,
has
obligations.
This
is
a
development
obligation,
but
in
this
particular
case
it
makes
sense
to
wait,
because
we
know
there
might
be
this
other
project
that
would
undo
the
work
that
they're
doing
so.
That's
the
perspective
that
we've
taken.
L
D
M
O
L
I
personally
don't
think
it's
inconsistent,
because
the
homeowners,
I'm
sorry,
the
property
owners
have
paid
money
to
the
smith
are
still
paying
it.
I
guess
I
mean
there's
a
smid
levy
right,
so
they're
paying
money
to
have
them.
Pay
again
to
me
is
a
very
different
equation
than
two
blocks
in
the
south,
because
the
two
boxes-
south
they're,
not
paying
money
up
front
into
a
smith
schmidt
so
to
me,
they're
very
different.
L
G
As
the
consistency
goes
well
you're
figuring
out
something
over
there,
I'm
all
about
consistency
chris.
If
not,
you
can
ask
fellow
commissioners
about
sidewalks,
but
the
previous,
the
previous
two
cases
that
we've
seen
tonight.
If
you
look
at
the
assessed
value
of
the
building,
it's
very
comparable
to
the
cost
to
underground
the
utilities.
G
X
Thank
you,
dory
greg.
I
think
you
and
I
are
on
the
exact
same
page
and
we're
coming
from
here-
is
that
if
we
pay
the
twelve
thousand
dollars
in
escrow,
we
are
all
we
are
also
paying
the
one
and
a
half
dollars
per
thousand
assessed
which,
in
our
current
property
value,
would
equate
to
945
dollars
per
year.
So
we
are
paying
it.
You
know
if
this
thing
doesn't
go
forward
for
10
years,
we're
effectively
paying
for
it
twice
and
I'm
still
getting
the
same
poll
and
that's
really
the
big
crux
of
our
issue.
X
The
other
thing
that
I
wanted
to
point
out
is
it's
the
city
that
collects
our
taxes.
So
when
I
hear
all
this,
you
know
the
sherman
hill
schmidt
needs
to.
You
know,
go
forward
with
the
project.
I
mean,
I
think
really,
you
guys
are
the
ones
that
that
pulled
the
strings.
It's
not
the
individual
property
owners,
because
I
can
assure
you
that
there's
a
lot
of
folks
throughout
the
city
and
in
sherman
hill,
specifically
that
want
to
see
these
polls
go
through.
X
N
X
You
know
the
fact
that
we've
already,
like
I
mentioned,
put
seven
thousand
dollars
into
repainting
the
building
seventy
six
hundred
dollars
in
the
landscaping
ten
thousand
dollars
in
the
ada.
I
mean
I
feel,
like
we've
gone
already
above
and
beyond.
What
you
know
might
have
might
have
been
required
or
what
is
required.
You
know
if
it's
a
take
it
or
leave
it
offer,
I
think
I'd
be
willing
to
negotiate,
but
who
would
I'd
rather
not
make
that
negotiation
in
this
format?
If
there's
one
individual,
I
can
negotiate
with.
K
This
is
the
one
thing
that
I
apologize
for
not
being
clear.
I
aggressively
agree
with
greg
and
you
in
this
case
that
I
don't
think
us
saying:
hey
we're
going
to
either
escrow
for
this.
It
goes
into
sherman
hill
schmidt
that
we're
already
paying
into
for
something.
It
is
a
a
significant.
I
mean
this
is
a.
This
is
a
significant
node
in
that
neighborhood
right
either
in
my
opinion,
again
dead
horse.
We
only
got
57
days.
It's
like
christmas,
almost
right
so
in
57
days,
we'll
get
an
awesome
present
which
shows.
Okay,
let's
defer
this.
K
Let's
figure
out
what
our
plan
is.
Let's
make
sure
it's
going
to
be
equitable,
and
so,
but
I
don't
think
we
should
be
doing
half
an
escrow
and
then
the
other
half
waving
we
either.
We
should
treat
these
together
like
we
would
anywhere
else,
because
in
this
case
it's
even
more
crazy
sherman
should
be
collecting
the
money
on
these
things.
Let's
use
that
money
wisely
before
we
ask
someone
else
to
pay
up
the
difference
for
the
schmidt.
H
H
X
So
we
submitted
for
a
building
permit
back
in
august
of
this
year
we
have
building
department
and
fire
sign
off.
The
only
thing
we're
waiting
on
is
pnz,
so
it's
held
us
up
for
about
45
days,
which
has
caused
us
to
extend
our
lease
at
our
current
space
over
221
east
locust
right
next
to
fleet
feet,
our
rent
there
is
about
five
thousand
dollars
a
month.
So
just
because
of
you
know
some
delay.
It's
already,
you
know
costing
us
dollars.
So
that's
how
it
affects
us
thanks
chris.
So.
K
K
I
have
trouble
with
that
being
fair.
I
guess
my
friendly
emotion
would
be
that
we
defer
these
requirements
for
three
years,
while
we
have
the
57
days
that
allows
us
to
continue
forward.
This
allows
us
get
a
smarter
way
to
look
at
this
and
you
know
figure
out
how
the
schmidt
piece
plays
in
I
mean
to
ask
for
money
here
that
we
may
say
well
we're
just
leaving
12
000
in
the
bank
here
for
something
we
don't
know.
We
have
an
undergrounding.
K
If
we,
if
we
say
okay,
we're
going
to
waive
the
undergrounding
now
we
actually
give
ourselves
issues
in
the
future.
I
guess
again
again:
it's
57
days
we're
supposed
to
get
a
better
plan,
we're
not
going
to
be
in
a
worse
position,
but
if
we
keep
delaying
they're
going
to
miss
winter,
you
know
they're
going
to
miss
their
building,
we're
going
to
be
charging
them
five
thousand
dollars
a
month
more
for
a
public
benefit.
D
D
G
K
I
would
move
that
we
that
we
sorry
defer
the
requirements
for
three
years
for
both
of
these
undergroundings,
which
will
give
us
the
time
to
figure
out
a
smarter,
more
equitable
plan
to
do
this.
So
my
recommendation
is
sorry.
I
don't
have
it
in
front
of
me
basically,
instead
of
wave
defer
for
three
years,
but
also
not
require
the
twelve
thousand
dollar
escrow.
K
E
K
K
D
D
D
I
guess
that
would
be
an
opportunity
to
see
where
we
are
in
three
years.
I
I
I
couldn't
tell
you
about
what
the
where
the
schmidt
is
and
the
project
timeline
for
that,
but
I
just
want
to
make.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
there
you
know
we
understand
that.
Yes,
we
can
defer
it,
it
has
no
cost
impacts
to
the
applicant.
Now
they
can
go
ahead
and
proceed
with
operating
their
business,
but
there
is
some
risk
I
just
don't.
K
We're
waving
at
all
we're
in
the
same
place,
we've
at
least
been
informed
and
not
actually
made
any
adjustments
that
negatively
impact
our
code
in
that
period
of
time,
which
is
what
we
are
doing
every
time
we
wave
because
now
someone
says
all
right
now:
we've
got
precedence,
we're
not
going
to
underground
and
now
we're
going
to
have
the
the
same
issue.
We
still
have
overhead
lines
that
still
come
down
in
storms
that
still
require
maintenance
to
our
trees,
which
still
prevent
us
from
actually
getting
where
we
think
the
dsm
plan
wants
us
to
go.
K
M
L
My
friendly
amendment
offer
would
be
that
on
the
second
paragraph
that
talks
about
the
bringing
the
utilities
from
the
poll
to
the
building
that
the
app
will
be
required
to
underground
that
portion.
I
think
that's
consistent
with
what
we've
done
in
the
past
and
whether
the
street
stuff
how
it
gets
resolved
or
not.
I
believe
that
would
always
be
a
a
property,
a
responsibility
to
get
it
to
their
building.
W
D
W
C
K
K
P
P
R
C
O
C
M
A
Members
of
the
commission,
bert
ross
planning
staff
for
the
city
of
des
moines.
The
item
before
you
is
a
public
hearing
site
plan
that
would
allow
for
expansion
of
outdoor
storage
related
to
an
existing
business
on
the
city's
northeast
side.
The
subject
property
is
currently
occupied
by
a
king's
throne,
porta
potty
business.
They
are
wanting
to
expand
the
use
to
include
two
large
outdoor
storage
areas.
So
this
map
on
your
screens
right
now
is
the
subject
property.
A
I'm
going
to
show
you
the
site
plan
here,
which
jacob
coupe
in
her
office
had
done
the
site
plan
review
for
this,
and
he
provided
a
color-coded
area
that
I'll
be
showing
you
shortly.
That
will
help
hopefully
make
it
a
little
easier
to
understand
what's
going
on,
but
they
essentially
have
two
outdoor
areas
here,
one
in
front
of
the
building,
also
between
the
building
and
delaware,
avenue
and
then
a
second
larger
one
to
the
east
of
the
building.
A
B
A
A
So,
as
I
mentioned,
here's
that
color-coded
picture
that
one
of
our
staff
members
made
that
shows
the
two
outdoor
storage
areas,
the
the
site
or
the
type
one
design
alternative
is
being
requested.
The
first
would
be
to
allow
this
storage
area
here
to
be
surrounded
by
chain
link
fence
that
would
have
slats
in
it.
A
Our
code
does
not
allow
for
chain
link
fence
in
between
a
building
and
a
front
property
line,
so
they're
needing
a
design
alternative
in
order
to
use
chain
link
fence
here
and
staff
is
not
supportive
of
that
design.
Alternative
the
other
design
alternatives
have
to
do
with
the
screening
along
this
easternmost
storage
area,
they're
wanting
to
use
existing
landscaping
and
then
also
use,
I
believe,
chain
link
fence
again
with
slats
to
provide
the
screening
for
this
easternmost
area.
A
A
The
next
photo
is
taken
from
dell.
I
believe
it's
from
delaware
avenue
again
the
site
is
set
quite
a
ways
back
from
delaware
and
then
this
last
photo
is
taken
from
the
freeway.
So
this
is
what
people
see
when
they
come
to
like
are
coming
into
des
moines
from
the
north.
So
the
subject
property
is
back
here.
So
it's
not
it's
immaculate
property,
but
it's
this
property
here
and
they
are
providing
or
proposing
some
landscaping
here.
That
would
hopefully
screen
some
of
these
port-a-potties
from
view.
A
A
A
I
don't
believe
we
received
any
public
comment
on
this
one
yeah
we
we
didn't
so
as
far
as
our
staff
recommendation
goes.
As
I
mentioned,
we
have
recommended
approval
of
the
burial,
I'm
sorry
of
the
waiver
to
bury
utilities
and
hopefully
make
sense
here
when
I
read
through
the
rest
of
a
recommendation,
but
with
any
public
hearing
site
plan.
A
This
one
goes
without
saying,
since
the
property
is
owned,
i1
light
industrial,
that's
not
allowed
on
this
property,
they
first
need
to
rezone
the
i2
heavy
industrial
and
then
get
a
conditional
use
from
the
board
of
adjustment.
But
we
just
wanted
to
have
that
be
clear
on
the
site
plan
that
they're
not
allowed
to
dump
or
clean
the
porta
potties
on
the
property.
A
So
as
far
as
the
type
2
design
or
not,
this
really
should
say
type
1
design
alternatives.
As
far
as
those
four
type
1
design
alternatives
for
the
landscaping
go.
Staff
is
recommending
approval
of
the
one
to
use
the
existing
landscaping
along
the
southwest
and
east
sides
of
that
storage
area
behind
the
building
and
we're
recommending
waiver
of
the
underground
utilities.
A
Then
staff
is
also
recommending
approval
of
the
following
design
alternatives
subject
to
the
following
use
of
the
existing
landscaping
along
the
south
portion
of
the
western
storage
area,
but
we
have
a
caveat
that
they
have
to
provide
an
additional
tree
to
ensure
that
the
minimum
one
tree
per
40,
lineal
foot
requirement
is
met
and
we've
also
recommended
approval
to
allow
them
to
utilize.
The
existing
fencing
along
the
north
edge
of
the
eastern
storage
area,
provided
that
the
80
percent
opacity
requirement
is
met.
A
D
Just
to
help
move
along
on
c
they
were
wanting
to
use
the
existing
fencing.
We
were
saying
for
that
eastern
storage
area.
We
thought
that's
fine,
but
it's
not
at
the
storage
area
boundary
it's
further
away,
so
we
thought
there
should
be
something
like
a
chain
and
baller
to
ensure
that
they're
not
starting
to
encroach
in
the
landscaped
areas
and
then
on
the
deep.
A
A
H
A
H
A
A
D
Yeah
we
were
comfortable
them
utilizing
that
existing
vegetation,
both
on
it
there's
also
a
grade
differential
once
you
get
that
once
you
get
down
straight
on
with
their
site,
I
think
we
had
a
note
in
there
that,
though,
that
they
have
to
maintain
any
landscaping
they're
using
for
buffering.
So
you
know,
should
there
be
a
large
storm
or
something
that
would
wipe
out
some
of
those
trees
that
are
existing,
they
would
need
to
replace
them.
If
you
adopted
the
staff
recommendation.
Thank.
H
R
Thank
you,
madam
chair
members
of
the
commission,
eric
cannon
2727
southwest
snyder
boulevard.
I
appreciate
you
guys
time
tonight
a
couple
things
I
wanted
to
walk
through
here
we're
in
agreement
with
the
majority
of
the
staff
comments.
There
are
a
couple
that
we
have
some,
I
guess
dialogue.
We
would
anticipate
discussion
on
the
first
being
I'd,
be
happy
to
answer
the
questions
you
guys
have
as
well,
but
the
first
being
this
front
outdoor
storage
area
here,
as
you
can
see
it
is
this
location
here.
R
C
R
R
Southern
side
would
be,
I
guess,
screening
against
the
precast
building
wall,
there's
an
existing
chain-link
fence
here
with
slats
already,
so
it
just
seems
very
excessive
to
provide
additional,
fully
opaque
fencing
in
that
location.
This
is
property
owned
by
this
property
owner
this
property
of
the
south
as
a
separate
property
owner,
but
this
is
also
just
vegetation
in
there
on
their
side
of
the
chain
and
defense
same
thing,
fully
opaque
screen.
We
would
be
screaming
against
the
building
that
they
own.
R
R
R
Mitigation
requirements,
as
you
can
see,
this
very
heavy
screen
of
trees
up
against
235
every
single
one
of
these
gold
dash
lines
is
a
contour,
25
plus
feet
of
gray
change
in
here.
So
we've
identified
more
or
less
this
entire
open
space
to
be
the
storage
yard.
Their
intent
is
to
use
that
space
to
the
limits
that
are
available.
R
The
secondary
requirement
doesn't
make
a
lot
of
sense
to
us
they're
going
to
expand
this
yard
kind
of
the
limits
we're
showing
the
rest
of
it
is
dense,
trees
and
a
slope
that
goes
straight
up
to
the
interstate,
the
expense
to
put
a
fence
or
a
bollard
system
in
here
to
limit
that
doesn't
make
a
lot
of
sense.
You
can't
see
this
area
from
anywhere
you're
going
to
stop
yourself
from
going
up
a
slope.
I
mean
the
natural
barrier
that
exists.
There
is
really
going
to
mitigate
the
expansion
that
they
could
do.
It
doesn't.
R
R
R
Sorry,
I'm
always
accused
of
talking
loud,
and
I
assume
everybody
can
hear
me
the
west
side
here
very
similar
condition.
We
have
a
detention
basin
that
we're
excavating
in
this
location
has
a
slope
that
goes
down
into
the
basin
that
natural
grade
there
is
going
to
limit
anything
from
expanding
they're
not
going
to
want
to
have
their
equipment
fall
into
the
the
basin
or
get
flooded,
or
anything
like
that.
So
the
natural
barriers
that
exist
on
both
the
east
and
south
side
are
very
practical
for
for
the
need
to
limit
this
area.
R
R
I
think
even
the
photos
that
we're
showing
from
235
it's
still
hard
to
see,
what's
even
in
there
today
because
of
some
of
the
trees,
but
we
will
enhance
that
with
the
additional
landscaping.
They
are
okay,
with
adding
slate
slats
in
the
fence
in
this
location.
We
respect
that
there's,
probably
not
enough
there
from
a
natural
barrier
standpoint,
so
the
slots
in
that
location
we're
totally
comfortable
with
again
the
secondary
barrier,
a
fence,
that's
right.
Next
to
landscaping!
That's
right!
Next
to
a
fence
with
slats
seems
a
bit
excessive.
R
R
D
R
R
We
feel
that's
excessive
steph
is
that
staff
is
asking
for
a
secondary
barrier
to
be
installed
on
the
perimeter
of
the
storage
yard,
and
I
guess
our
our
point
is
that
there's
a
natural
barrier
that
exists
there
today
with
woods
and
the
extreme
slope
that
goes
up
here,
there's
no
setback
issues
or
anything
like
that
from
a
storage
yard.
If
this
area
was
flatter,
they
would
make
the
storage
yard
bigger,
they're
they're,
making
it,
as
you
know,
they're
trying
to
use
as
much
space
as
possible.
C
M
K
Is
is
there
a
big
need
for
the
bollards
I
mean
if
the
bollards
are,
I
mean
if,
if
the
logic
of
the
bollards
was
to
prevent
expansion
of
that
and
they're
identifying
that
they
believe,
expansion
will
be
prevented
by
what
is
essentially
a
20-foot
grade
rise
is?
Is
there
another
reason
that
there
was
a
concern
with
respect
to
eastern
expansion.
D
It
was
just
merely
to
keep
them
out
of
the
landscape
area,
ensured
long-term
health
of
the
the
plantings
that
we're
relying
on
for
screening.
You
know
if
the
commission
feels
that
the
grade
is
adequate.
On
that
side,
I
mean
there
is
a
substantial
plantings
there.
There
is
substantial
grade.
I
don't
have
as
much
concern
on
that
particular
side.
I
I
mean
to
be
to
their
own
detriment,
to
eek
into
their
storm
water
basin,
but
there
isn't
as
much
natural
barrier
there.
D
K
Is
that
so
that
staff
recommendation,
which
would
be
the
denial
of
sorry
that
so
that
would
be
staff
recommendation,
including
the
the
denial
of
waiver,
which
is
under
type
2
e,
which
is
that
so
there'd
be?
It
would
be
fully
opaque
on
the
western
set
of
fencing,
as
opposed
to
just
the
west
side.
Of
that
western
fencing.
K
If
you
took
that
entire
street
took
the
entire
cost
of
doing
that
whole
street
and
then
looked
at
the
linear
frontage
of
this
of
of
this
site,
we
would
not
be
at
a
half
a
million
dollar
project
for
them,
which
is
why
I
would
prefer
that
we
def
that
we
defer
undergrounding
requirements
versus
wave
them,
because,
if
all
of
a
sudden,
we
get
a
better
plan
now
this
one
is
fully
waived.
We
have
nothing,
nothing
else
there
but,
as
I
say,
friendly
amendment,
which
is
my
my
consistent
horse,
kicking.